The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: sinkspur on July 30, 2016, 11:29:10 pm
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http://www.vox.com/2016/7/30/12332922/donald-trump-khan-muslim
Donald Trump’s slander of Captain Humayun Khan’s family is horrifying, even for Trump
What kind of person is Donald Trump?
Updated by Ezra Klein on July 30, 2016, 2:07 p.m. ET
The most emotional moment of the Democratic National Convention was the speech by Khizr Khan, the bereaved father of Army Captain Humayun Khan. With his wife Ghazala by his side, Khan recalled his son’s character, his faith, his patriotism — and, ultimately, his courageous death in the service of the country he loved, and the fellow soldiers he was protecting.
And, yes, the Khan family is Muslim. Under Trump’s proposed policies, they would be innately suspect; had he been president when they immigrated to America, they would’ve been barred from entering, and Humayun Khan never would have served.
"Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery?" Khan asked Trump. "Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one."
On ABC this morning, Trump responded to Khan’s speech. I don’t know what I expected from Trump. Maybe he would show some gentleness. Maybe he would show some empathy. Maybe he would refuse to comment. Maybe he would attack Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama’s foreign policy leadership. All of those responses would have been fine.
Trump’s actual response, though, wasn’t fine.
"If you look at his wife, she was standing there," he said, on national television. "She had nothing to say. She probably, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me."
This wasn’t a slip of the tongue. In an interview with Maureen Dowd, Trump took the same tack. "I’d like to hear his wife say something," he said.
Let’s be very clear about what Trump is doing here: as ABC wrote, he’s suggesting "Khan’s wife didn’t speak because she was forbidden to as a Muslim." This is bullshit. It is flatly, verifiably, false. But that’s almost beside the point.
Trump listened to a speech by the bereaved father of a fallen Muslim soldier and used it to slander the fallen soldier’s family. That was his response. That is his character.
At this point, I honestly don’t know what to say. I don’t have new language for this, I haven’t found another way of saying this isn’t okay, this isn’t kind, this isn’t decent. Instead, I’ll note James Fallows’s response. He quotes Joseph Welch, speaking to Senator Joseph McCarthy in 1954.
"Until this moment," he said, "I think I never really gauged your cruelty."
If you would like to see Ghazala Khan speak, you can do so in this interview she gave to MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell. As Fallows writes, she breaks down sobbing while speaking of her son. It suggests she let her husband give the DNC speech for a simple reason: she remains overwhelmed by grief.
This is the woman Trump decided to slander. This is the gauge of his cruelty.
This isn't partisan. This isn't left vs. right. Mitt Romney never would have said this. John McCain never would have said this. George W. Bush never would have said this. John Kerry never would have said this. This is what I mean when I write that the 2016 election isn't simply Democrat vs. Republican, but normal vs. abnormal.
Trump also wanted the Khans to know that, like them, he had sacrificed for this country.
"I've made a lot of sacrifices," Trump said. "I work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures. I've had tremendous success. I think I've done a lot."
I honestly do not understand how a human being can respond to a family that lost their son for this country by saying that he has sacrificed too, he’s worked really hard, he’s built "great structures," he's had "tremendous success."
This is not a question that needs to be asked in most elections, but it needs to be asked in this one: what kind of person is Donald Trump? What kind of person says these things? And is that really the kind of person we want to be president?
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Trump is a moral pervert, so self-absorbed and insecure that every remark made by someone else he takes as an attack on him.
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Trump is a moral pervert, so self-absorbed and insecure that every remark made by someone else he takes as an attack on him.
I have more faith in Americans to reject Donald Trump. I hate the idea of Hillary Clinton equally evil but there is absolutely no moral choice. Void.
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Certainly not my kind.
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Trump is a moral pervert, so self-absorbed and insecure that every remark made by someone else he takes as an attack on him.
And, he is insane. Can you say, "WWIII" to prove he is the greatest?
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I see Trump for what he is. An egomaniac con man who has duped the rubes into thinking he has anyone else's interests at heart. He is an immoral disgusting pig of a human being who lies so much he doesn't even know when he is doing it. He has no real principles other than self promotion
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I see Trump for what he is. An egomaniac con man who has duped the rubes into thinking he has anyone else's interests at heart. He is an immoral disgusting pig of a human being who lies so much he doesn't even know when he is doing it. He has no real principles other than self promotion
I can't imagine spending any time with the guy.
One of my friends from my hometown was a rich kid who had a lot of the same bad traits. He was arrogant, bragged constantly, and was self absorbed but Scott genuinely did care what people thought, was generous, and sought respect as well as desired it. He was tolerable in small doses but Trump is someone I would seek to avoid.
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And, he is insane. Can you say, "WWIII" to prove he is the greatest?
We are rushing to WWIII anyway. One could argue it's already started, as the various Moslem factions around the world are staging unrelenting strikes on soft targets.
Meantime WE have given the Iranians access to capital they had had withheld from the time of the Shah's overthrow and the embassy takeover. Modern Iran, being kook-fundamentalist Islamicist, cannot raise capital. All they can raise is hell.
We gave them the money and the access to raise nuclear hell. Only a simpleton like John F'n Kerry would think they won't use this gold-plated opportunity.
No matter who is elected President we will have ugly war, probably nuclear. But it's of our times that we continue with this madcap idiocy, in picking a bigger fool than Barry Hussein. As if that were possible.
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Trump is a perverted and deranged little man. When he opens his mouth the air is filled with verbal incontinence. His attacks are a vile cocktail of oozing slime that the trumpanzee faithful lap up like gruel fed to hogs. The man is a pig.
As for the rest of the party regulars falling in line behind this mental defect...may the ass-kicking you receive at the polls this Nov reflect the Goldwater election...or maybe the McGovern Nixon outcome.
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http://www.vox.com/2016/7/30/12332922/donald-trump-khan-muslim
Donald Trump’s slander of Captain Humayun Khan’s family is horrifying, even for Trump
What kind of person is Donald Trump?
Updated by Ezra Klein on July 30, 2016, 2:07 p.m. ET
The most emotional moment of the Democratic National Convention was the speech by Khizr Khan, the bereaved father of Army Captain Humayun Khan. With his wife Ghazala by his side, Khan recalled his son’s character, his faith, his patriotism — and, ultimately, his courageous death in the service of the country he loved, and the fellow soldiers he was protecting.
And, yes, the Khan family is Muslim. Under Trump’s proposed policies, they would be innately suspect; had he been president when they immigrated to America, they would’ve been barred from entering, and Humayun Khan never would have served.
"Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery?" Khan asked Trump. "Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one."
On ABC this morning, Trump responded to Khan’s speech. I don’t know what I expected from Trump. Maybe he would show some gentleness. Maybe he would show some empathy. Maybe he would refuse to comment. Maybe he would attack Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama’s foreign policy leadership. All of those responses would have been fine.
Trump’s actual response, though, wasn’t fine.
"If you look at his wife, she was standing there," he said, on national television. "She had nothing to say. She probably, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me."
This wasn’t a slip of the tongue. In an interview with Maureen Dowd, Trump took the same tack. "I’d like to hear his wife say something," he said.
Let’s be very clear about what Trump is doing here: as ABC wrote, he’s suggesting "Khan’s wife didn’t speak because she was forbidden to as a Muslim." This is bullshit. It is flatly, verifiably, false. But that’s almost beside the point.
Trump listened to a speech by the bereaved father of a fallen Muslim soldier and used it to slander the fallen soldier’s family. That was his response. That is his character.
At this point, I honestly don’t know what to say. I don’t have new language for this, I haven’t found another way of saying this isn’t okay, this isn’t kind, this isn’t decent. Instead, I’ll note James Fallows’s response. He quotes Joseph Welch, speaking to Senator Joseph McCarthy in 1954.
"Until this moment," he said, "I think I never really gauged your cruelty."
If you would like to see Ghazala Khan speak, you can do so in this interview she gave to MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell. As Fallows writes, she breaks down sobbing while speaking of her son. It suggests she let her husband give the DNC speech for a simple reason: she remains overwhelmed by grief.
This is the woman Trump decided to slander. This is the gauge of his cruelty.
This isn't partisan. This isn't left vs. right. Mitt Romney never would have said this. John McCain never would have said this. George W. Bush never would have said this. John Kerry never would have said this. This is what I mean when I write that the 2016 election isn't simply Democrat vs. Republican, but normal vs. abnormal.
Trump also wanted the Khans to know that, like them, he had sacrificed for this country.
"I've made a lot of sacrifices," Trump said. "I work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures. I've had tremendous success. I think I've done a lot."
I honestly do not understand how a human being can respond to a family that lost their son for this country by saying that he has sacrificed too, he’s worked really hard, he’s built "great structures," he's had "tremendous success."
This is not a question that needs to be asked in most elections, but it needs to be asked in this one: what kind of person is Donald Trump? What kind of person says these things? And is that really the kind of person we want to be president?
Trump is someone with New York (liberal) values. He professes to care about US vets, but is there anyone in Trump's family that has served in the US military? I think everything he says and does is an attempt to mask and cloak who and what he really is. And the ugly slips out almost every time he opens his mouth. He just can't help himself.
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Trump is the worst kind of person.
A friend of mine, whom I've known since the late '90s and who has always detested Trump, is undergoing the pod transformation. She's cowering in fear of Clinton, so she has begun to try and whitewash Trump. "Welllll....maybe he isn't so bad after all....people can change..."
She tried to tell me that the "yes you will" chant meant nothing because people always chant at conventions. And today she sent me an article titled "Why It's Moral To Vote For Trump". The same article was posted here by a Trump fan.
Watching my friend undergo this character...subjugation?....is painful. We're kind of dancing around each other, both trying not to lose our tempers, but I don't think it will end well. If not, chalk up another lost friendship for the walking Creamsicle.
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Well...here's something to think about, fellow Trump-Detesters.
And I make no apologies for him. That he got the Republican nomination is a travesty. And possibly the end of the party.
Trump...is a dull-normal ADHD narcissist. He's campaigning to be Class President, not President of the United States. He really doesn't think it MATTERS what he says - or that so much he could do would turn out to have terrible results.
When he DOES figure it out...my guess is, he'll want to quit.
Which would make Pence the President. And THAT is possibly the best outcome to be hoped for.
Meantime, Billary, there...is dying of several maladies - cholera and TIA strokes and heart issues. And her purported husband is becoming a dementia case. SHE will probably die...possibly soon; certainly not soon enough.
That would make this Kaine guy the President. And we will find out that he's not a moderate; just a behind-the-scenes stealth moonbat.
I hate to say it; but that will probably have me voting Trump. Makes me sick to reward this REPULSIVE behavior...but that may be the only rational choice. Vote Trump and hope Trump goes away somehow.
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Trump is a moral pervert, so self-absorbed and insecure that every remark made by someone else he takes as an attack on him.
A 13-year old girl appeared on TV and made jokes, one line said, "Oh, you were a reality TV star, maybe you should be President!"
Trump actually dissed the girl on Twitter. Just insane.
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What kind of person is Donald Trump?
(http://www.definicionabc.com/wp-content/uploads/Burro.jpg)+(http://www.talkingnewmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Sinkhole-sm.jpg)
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I have more faith in Americans to reject Donald Trump. I hate the idea of Hillary Clinton equally evil but there is absolutely no moral choice. Void.
tRump is most definitely a certifiable paranoid schizophrenic, the way he attacks and keeps unreasonably attacking good people like this family and Ted Cruz.
tRump or hitlery?????? We are facing a scary fate similar to those poor souls that found themselves in the burning buildings on 9/11. The choice is stay and burn or jump.
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The lowest of the low.
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When he DOES figure it out...my guess is, he'll want to quit.
Which would make Pence the President. And THAT is possibly the best outcome to be hoped for.
I've had the same thought.
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Trump is a moral pervert, so self-absorbed and insecure that every remark made by someone else he takes as an attack on him.
The orange a$$hoIes is a creature from Hell.
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The candidate of cultural degeneracy.
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He professes to care about US vets, but is there anyone in Trump's family that has served in the US military? .../
Are you claiming @XenaLee that only someone who is a Veteran or knows a Veteran can care about Veterans? :pondering:
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Are you claiming @XenaLee that only someone who is a Veteran or knows a Veteran can care about Veterans? :pondering:
I'm claiming that Trump is a fake/phony/fraud. He never served but claims he has made "sacrifices". He's a fat cat rich dude that got four deferments. Who, in his family, has EVER served this country? Can you answer that question?
(Good thing this isn't the "election section"....else this post, an expression of my opinion and an example of freedom of speech, would be deleted by 'you know who')
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Trump is the worst kind of person.
A friend of mine, whom I've known since the late '90s and who has always detested Trump, is undergoing the pod transformation. She's cowering in fear of Clinton, so she has begun to try and whitewash Trump. "Welllll....maybe he isn't so bad after all....people can change..."
She tried to tell me that the "yes you will" chant meant nothing because people always chant at conventions. And today she sent me an article titled "Why It's Moral To Vote For Trump". The same article was posted here by a Trump fan.
Watching my friend undergo this character...subjugation?....is painful. We're kind of dancing around each other, both trying not to lose our tempers, but I don't think it will end well. If not, chalk up another lost friendship for the walking Creamsicle.
My ex has the same issue going with a neighbor and long-time friend of his who has boarded the Trump Train To Hell. I told him to just agree to disagree after stating his case against Trump ...and then when Trump loses in November, be gracious while saying "Told ya"....and then laugh it off and remain friends (if possible). It's going to be hard to laugh off though...considering what we'll be stuck with.
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Donald Trump is a sick individual whose dark heart is Satan's playground.
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tRump or hitlery?????? We are facing a scary fate similar to those poor souls that found themselves in the burning buildings on 9/11. The choice is stay and burn or jump.
When those are your choices, it's time to think unconventionally. There's another name on the ballot in all 50 states. Johnson/Weld.
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There's another name on the ballot in all 50 states. Johnson/Weld.
Or I could pull a Jeff Foxworthy and write in Richard Petty. :tongue2:
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Or I could pull a Jeff Foxworthy and write in Richard Petty. :tongue2:
Or....you could write in John Galt....or Guy Fawkes. In fact, that might be a movement that would get the PTBs attention. Imagine if millions of voters wrote in one of those names. Would that ever make President Hillary a bit nervous.
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Well...here's something to think about, fellow Trump-Detesters.
And I make no apologies for him. That he got the Republican nomination is a travesty. And possibly the end of the party.
Trump...is a dull-normal ADHD narcissist. He's campaigning to be Class President, not President of the United States. He really doesn't think it MATTERS what he says - or that so much he could do would turn out to have terrible results.
When he DOES figure it out...my guess is, he'll want to quit.
Which would make Pence the President. And THAT is possibly the best outcome to be hoped for.
Meantime, Billary, there...is dying of several maladies - cholera and TIA strokes and heart issues. And her purported husband is becoming a dementia case. SHE will probably die...possibly soon; certainly not soon enough.
That would make this Kaine guy the President. And we will find out that he's not a moderate; just a behind-the-scenes stealth moonbat.
I hate to say it; but that will probably have me voting Trump. Makes me sick to reward this REPULSIVE behavior...but that may be the only rational choice. Vote Trump and hope Trump goes away somehow.
@JustPassinThru
Nope. No way. I'm in control of my own vote and I don't have to reward repulsive behavior nor make myself sick. Why would I want to do that?
With all respect, voting for Trump in the hope that he'll drop out or something is not rational. Whatever disaster happens, I will have had no part in it.
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With all respect, voting for Trump in the hope that he'll drop out or something is not rational. Whatever disaster happens, I will have had no part in it.
BUMP that.
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@JustPassinThru
Nope. No way. I'm in control of my own vote and I don't have to reward repulsive behavior nor make myself sick. Why would I want to do that?
With all respect, voting for Trump in the hope that he'll drop out or something is not rational. Whatever disaster happens, I will have had no part in it.
That's like telling the party to go ahead and choose our candidate for us. At this point I'm not so sure that Trump isn't just a puppet anyway.
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My ex has the same issue going with a neighbor and long-time friend of his who has boarded the Trump Train To Hell. I told him to just agree to disagree after stating his case against Trump ...and then when Trump loses in November, be gracious while saying "Told ya"....and then laugh it off and remain friends (if possible). It's going to be hard to laugh off though...considering what we'll be stuck with.
That's good advice, @XenaLee . It's really the only way a blow-up can be avoided.
If my friend would say, "Yeah, I know what he is and I can't stand him, but I'm going to vote for him because I don't want Hillary", I would get that. I don't agree with it, but I could understand her reasoning. But the ridiculous attempt to suddenly try and whitewash Trump in an attempt to assuage her conscience....I don't respect it. In fact, it makes me sick.
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That's like telling the party to go ahead and choose our candidate for us. At this point I'm not so sure that Trump isn't just a puppet anyway.
@roamer_1
I know, I'm not convinced he isn't, either.
Unfortunately some of those on our side have already made it known to the GOP that they can do whatever the hell they want, and we'll stand passively by like a beaten wife with a black eye as she tells the cop, "I know he's terrible, but I don't want to press charges. I want to give him another chance."
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That's good advice, @XenaLee . It's really the only way a blow-up can be avoided.
If my friend would say, "Yeah, I know what he is and I can't stand him, but I'm going to vote for him because I don't want Hillary", I would get that. I don't agree with it, but I could understand her reasoning. But the ridiculous attempt to suddenly try and whitewash Trump in an attempt to assuage her conscience....I don't respect it. In fact, it makes me sick.
an interesting question: what kind of person is Donny Trump. it nearly begs answering
(http://i.imgur.com/k40fxAr.gif)
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@JustPassinThru
Nope. No way. I'm in control of my own vote and I don't have to reward repulsive behavior nor make myself sick. Why would I want to do that?
With all respect, voting for Trump in the hope that he'll drop out or something is not rational. Whatever disaster happens, I will have had no part in it.
It's the only rational way of looking at it.
We've been given the choice. You don't have to like it; but you have to realize that it is what it is. Bad or bad.
You can not choose or you can make a choice based on peripheral differences or possible eventualities.
I don't have a problem in wishing they BOTH drop dead, both parties' candidates. Either of them are going to be a disaster. It's worst imaginable final choice. Either of them, both of them, are going to take us into economic collapse - with their incompetence, ignorance, arrogance and stupidity.
Not making the choice leaves the choice to others. And that's fine - IF there TRULY is no difference.
The ONE important difference is the Vice President. And that, the undemocratic Democrats being what they are, it's more likely that Trump will be removed due to his incompetence.
That is a second set of decision-points. Trump will be held to account - by the holier-than-thou Democrats, who will eagerly seek a reason to Impeach or make Donnie's life miserable until he quits. AND...because he PRETENDS to be a Republican Conservative...we'll all be tarred with his failure in the mediuh.
Bad for us.
And he may be removed or quit. Pence the Prez. Good for us.
Balance that against Madame Rodham and her sidekick, the Leftist with a human mask. SHE won't be called to account, by the RINOpubicans or anyone. She may well die of her issues. And what do we get out of it? A guy we've never heard of but who, by the wonks at Conservative Review, score him ZERO. Lower than Botox Nan of San-Fran. Lower than Hillary. Lower than Obama.
Is it sick to think this way? No, it's realistic. It's the only way to measure these buffoons.
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It's the only rational way of looking at it.
We've been given the choice. You don't have to like it; but you have to realize that it is what it is. Bad or bad.
What you're saying is that we've had a choice forced upon us and I have to accept it. I don't and I won't. I'm under no obligation to choose between Hillary and Trump.
You can not choose or you can make a choice based on peripheral differences or possible eventualities.
I've already made my choice and it isn't going to change.
I don't have a problem in wishing they BOTH drop dead, both parties' candidates. Either of them are going to be a disaster. It's worst imaginable final choice. Either of them, both of them, are going to take us into economic collapse - with their incompetence, ignorance, arrogance and stupidity.
You just made an unassailable, perfectly logical argument for refusing to support either candidate. To do so, and then to say we must support one or the other, is simply not rational.
Not making the choice leaves the choice to others. And that's fine - IF there TRULY is no difference.
You just made the case that there is no difference. I agree with you on that.
The ONE important difference is the Vice President. And that, the undemocratic Democrats being what they are, it's more likely that Trump will be removed due to his incompetence.
That is a second set of decision-points. Trump will be held to account - by the holier-than-thou Democrats, who will eagerly seek a reason to Impeach or make Donnie's life miserable until he quits. AND...because he PRETENDS to be a Republican Conservative...we'll all be tarred with his failure in the mediuh.
Bad for us.
And he may be removed or quit. Pence the Prez. Good for us.
Sorry, that's nothing but a fantasy.
Balance that against Madame Rodham and her sidekick, the Leftist with a human mask. SHE won't be called to account, by the RINOpubicans or anyone. She may well die of her issues. And what do we get out of it? A guy we've never heard of but who, by the wonks at Conservative Review, score him ZERO. Lower than Botox Nan of San-Fran. Lower than Hillary. Lower than Obama.
Is it sick to think this way? No, it's realistic. It's the only way to measure these buffoons.
I disagree. I won't be held responsible for the disaster of a Trump presidency.
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What you're saying is that we've had a choice forced upon us and I have to accept it. I don't and I won't. I'm under no obligation to choose between Hillary and Trump.
I've already made my choice and it isn't going to change.
You just made an unassailable, perfectly logical argument for refusing to support either candidate. To do so, and then to say we must support one or the other, is simply not rational.
You just made the case that there is no difference. I agree with you on that.
Sorry, that's nothing but a fantasy.
I disagree. I won't be held responsible for the disaster of a Trump presidency.
Nope, not a fantasy. A possible outcome.
When you're backed into a corner, you can play the odds, or you can wish, real REAL hard.
Wishing is for children. You take the odds and the less-bad outcome. Think of those people who jumped from the World Trade Center. They knew jumping meant death; but death by impact was less terrifying than being burned alive.
If the MORE likely outcome happens, we are going down no matter what. One thing we know for sure is, if the D nominee gets in office, we will have NO chance of a conservative obtaining the office.
If the RINO nominee, who's really another D, gets in...the odds are he'll be put out faster, and then there will be a conservative in there.
Like I keep saying: You don't have to like it. I sure don't. I like curling up in a ball in the corner and weeping helplessly, less.
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When those are your choices, it's time to think unconventionally. There's another name on the ballot in all 50 states. Johnson/Weld.
Johnson doesn't support religious freedom
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Johnson doesn't support religious freedom
And he does support destruction of prenatal infants; and does support open borders and legalization of non-medicinal hallucinogenic drugs.
Open Borders, it goes withotu saying, are incompatible with extensive, expensive social handout-programs. Now the Losertarians will tell me that he also supports an end to the Welfare State - to which I say, sure. I'll believe that when I see it. Before that happens there's the whole of Congress and an ARMY of Leftist activists disguised as Federal judges.
We'll get the worst of both worlds - for a few years. Then the nation collapses, which is what the Left is working for anyway.
They had a chance to be serious and thoughtful and present an alternative. They chose to stage a spectacle to mock the election process. Fine. I can ignore freakshows.
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That's good advice, @XenaLee . It's really the only way a blow-up can be avoided.
If my friend would say, "Yeah, I know what he is and I can't stand him, but I'm going to vote for him because I don't want Hillary", I would get that. I don't agree with it, but I could understand her reasoning. But the ridiculous attempt to suddenly try and whitewash Trump in an attempt to assuage her conscience....I don't respect it. In fact, it makes me sick.
And just think. Your friend has another three months of Trump's Mouth run amuck to contend with. You almost have to feel sorry for them. Almost, but not quite.
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I'm claiming that Trump is a fake/phony/fraud. He never served but claims he has made "sacrifices". He's a fat cat rich dude that got four deferments. Who, in his family, has EVER served this country? Can you answer that question?
(Good thing this isn't the "election section"....else this post, an expression of my opinion and an example of freedom of speech, would be deleted by 'you know who')
Nice rant @XenaLee Now how about answering my question?
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In a word............UNHINGED
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Nope, not a fantasy. A possible outcome.
Even assuming he wins the election, and that's unlikely, it's an extremely remote possibility, and no reason to vote for a disgusting, unfit individual.
When you're backed into a corner, you can play the odds, or you can wish, real REAL hard.
Wishing is for children. You take the odds and the less-bad outcome. Think of those people who jumped from the World Trade Center. They knew jumping meant death; but death by impact was less terrifying than being burned alive.
Who's wishing? This is what some folks can't seem to understand, no matter how often they're told otherwise: I am not backed into a corner.
You might be, or more accurately you might believe you are, but it's because you're allowing it.
There is no way on this earth I will vote for Donald Trump. I'm sorry you feel you have to vote for someone who sickens you, but it's your choice to do so, and you can't lay the blame on anyone or anything else.
If the MORE likely outcome happens, we are going down no matter what. One thing we know for sure is, if the D nominee gets in office, we will have NO chance of a conservative obtaining the office.
If the RINO nominee, who's really another D, gets in...the odds are he'll be put out faster, and then there will be a conservative in there.
See, you just corrected yourself: Trump is a Democrat. In fact, he admitted it last summer in a "Morning Joe" interview. Vote for a Dem if you like, but you're just engaging yourself in mental gymnastics to try and justify doing so.
Like I keep saying: You don't have to like it. I sure don't. I like curling up in a ball in the corner and weeping helplessly, less.
I'm sorry you're so upset, but voting for a man who sickens you isn't going to make you feel any better. Personally, I feel free. I've been sitting back and laughing at all of this for a while now.
You're right, though...I don't have to like where the election is. I also don't have to take part in the disaster.
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And just think. Your friend has another three months of Trump's Mouth run amuck to contend with. You almost have to feel sorry for them. Almost, but not quite.
Lol, exactly.
As far as I'm concerned, if my friend is going to sell her soul for a game show host, she's asking for the mess that's coming her way.
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Even assuming he wins the election, and that's unlikely, it's an extremely remote possibility, and no reason to vote for a disgusting, unfit individual.
It's the same shtick from the McCain't/Palin campaign all over again.
Spinning like a Maytag.
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It's the same shtick from the McCain't/Palin campaign all over again.
Spinning like a Maytag.
Yep, we're not having it this time around.
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Even assuming he wins the election, and that's unlikely, it's an extremely remote possibility, and no reason to vote for a disgusting, unfit individual.
Who's wishing? This is what some folks can't seem to understand, no matter how often they're told otherwise: I am not backed into a corner.
You might be, or more accurately you might believe you are, but it's because you're allowing it.
There is no way on this earth I will vote for Donald Trump. I'm sorry you feel you have to vote for someone who sickens you, but it's your choice to do so, and you can't lay the blame on anyone or anything else.
See, you just corrected yourself: Trump is a Democrat. In fact, he admitted it last summer in a "Morning Joe" interview. Vote for a Dem if you like, but you're just engaging yourself in mental gymnastics to try and justify doing so.
I'm sorry you're so upset, but voting for a man who sickens you isn't going to make you feel any better. Personally, I feel free. I've been sitting back and laughing at all of this for a while now.
You're right, though...I don't have to like where the election is. I also don't have to take part in the disaster.
Let me get this straight.
You're arguing FOR...a position of COMPLETE PASSIVITY. Just letting someone else choose, and for silly, vapid, herdlike reasons.
Do you always deal with crises like this? Just throw your hands up and collapse in a corner?
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IThe ONE important difference is the Vice President. And that, the undemocratic Democrats being what they are, it's more likely that Trump will be removed due to his incompetence.
Selecting the nominally conservative Pence was a good insurance move against that.
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Let me get this straight.
You're arguing FOR...a position of COMPLETE PASSIVITY. Just letting someone else choose, and for silly, vapid, herdlike reasons.
Do you always deal with crises like this? Just throw your hands up and collapse in a corner?
I think what she is trying to tell you (duh).....is that voting for the lesser of two evils....
is STILL voting for evil. (good grief)
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Let me get this straight.
You're arguing FOR...a position of COMPLETE PASSIVITY. Just letting someone else choose, and for silly, vapid, herdlike reasons.
Do you always deal with crises like this? Just throw your hands up and collapse in a corner?
Are you asking me that with a straight face? Seriously?
I'm arguing against passivity, which is the belief that we have no other options than what the GOP presents us with, so we have to meekly submit and swallow it.
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Let me get this straight.
You're arguing FOR...a position of COMPLETE PASSIVITY. Just letting someone else choose, and for silly, vapid, herdlike reasons.
Do you always deal with crises like this? Just throw your hands up and collapse in a corner?
Is this opposite day in your world??
Because what you have said is precisely the opposite of what @CatherineofAragon said.
As I see it, the people who think they have no choice but to vote for a corrupt, amoral Democrat like Trump are the ones who are being passive.
Realizing that we still have the freedom of choice and don't have to do what the puppet masters demand we do (which is the apparent position you are taking), is remarkably liberating.
I'm doing what's RIGHT, not what I'm being forced to do.
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So your answer is to let someone else decide.
It matters little at this point, I guess - but that's not my instinct. It sure is the instinct of a lot of people - I thought most of them were Losertarians; smug in how they were oh, so Above It All in voting for their circus act.
I could throw some analogies out here, but I sense the negative posters are dug in. So be it...I don't advocate voting or not-voting; I think it's the individual's choice and the responsibility lies in knowing if one is informed enough to choose. BUT...you don't vote, you don't have much to complain about when others choose.
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So your answer is to let someone else decide.
It matters little at this point, I guess - but that's not my instinct. It sure is the instinct of a lot of people - I thought most of them were Losertarians; smug in how they were oh, so Above It All in voting for their circus act.
I could throw some analogies out here, but I sense the negative posters are dug in. So be it...I don't advocate voting or not-voting; I think it's the individual's choice and the responsibility lies in knowing if one is informed enough to choose. BUT...you don't vote, you don't have much to complain about when others choose.
There are other choices besides the evil Hillary and the evil Donald.
The complaints will remain that the Trump lovers forced Hillary on us.
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............ I also don't have to take part in the disaster.
If the "disaster" you refer to is the mere election of one or the other, I would agree that any of us can separate ourselves from that. If "disaster" refers to the consequence resulting from one or the other becoming president, none of us have an ability to separate ourselves from that. If there are only two possibilities, refusing to choose either can allow any of us feel good or claim moral superiority, but it can not keep us from taking part in the results. From a personal standpoint, I would rather say "I made a poor choice" than to say "Don't blame me, I avoided a choice".
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If the "disaster" you refer to is the mere election of one or the other, I would agree that any of us can separate ourselves from that. If "disaster" refers to the consequence resulting from one or the other becoming president, none of us have an ability to separate ourselves from that. If there are only two possibilities, refusing to choose either can allow any of us feel good or claim moral superiority, but it can not keep us from taking part in the results. From a personal standpoint, I would rather say "I made a poor choice" than to say "Don't blame me, I avoided a choice".
Not voting for either IS a choice. I'm not "avoiding" anything.
I'm pro-actively not voting for either of the two people who are equally reprehensible and corrupt.
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If the "disaster" you refer to is the mere election of one or the other, I would agree that any of us can separate ourselves from that. If "disaster" refers to the consequence resulting from one or the other becoming president, none of us have an ability to separate ourselves from that. If there are only two possibilities, refusing to choose either can allow any of us feel good or claim moral superiority, but it can not keep us from taking part in the results. From a personal standpoint, I would rather say "I made a poor choice" than to say "Don't blame me, I avoided a choice".
I believe it was best said by Melania Trump; "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".
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Lol, exactly.
As far as I'm concerned, if my friend is going to sell her soul for a game show host, she's asking for the mess that's coming her way.
@CatherineofAragon
I haven't been here much the last three days as I have been "re-doing" the library/TV room where I have had papers all over from bills, poetry books/sheets of paper, drawing supplies everywhere, Shakespeare books, and computer cords on the floor I have had to step over to sit on the couch and do my "work". I couldn't stand it any more and bought 10 binders with inserts to get the papers together so I can find them. Got the computer cords off the floor. I won't be falling from getting intertwined in cords. It now looks like a human being has some order in here.
What I want to tell you is, Bob's son lives in Ohio, the purple state and no candidate who has become president has won without Ohio. This son has convinced himself he has to vote for Trump due to the supreme court. I have told him Trump is insane and backed that up with what I know, but he sticks to the Supreme Court appointment(s). He can't understand it is dangerous to put an insane person in the president's office. So, that is one in Ohio who is voting for insane Trump.
The problem is people don't understand what "insane" actually means. They should spend some time in a mental hospital and see what insane people are like. I think it is entirely possible Trump can crack and be put there. I don't think he can handle the actual, real life, job of the president. I think he just wants to win and then go home to his apartment on top of Trump Tower and hang a picture of himself being sworn in as president.
It is insane to vote for an insane person. The son can't see that.
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If the "disaster" you refer to is the mere election of one or the other, I would agree that any of us can separate ourselves from that. If "disaster" refers to the consequence resulting from one or the other becoming president, none of us have an ability to separate ourselves from that. If there are only two possibilities, refusing to choose either can allow any of us feel good or claim moral superiority, but it can not keep us from taking part in the results. From a personal standpoint, I would rather say "I made a poor choice" than to say "Don't blame me, I avoided a choice".
I'm not interested in making myself feel good or in some false idea of superiority. I'm doing what I know is right. The idea of voting for Trump is repellent to me.
The "poor choice" was made by primary voters who selected him. That's not my problem.
@etcb
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Economic anxiety!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoveOI6XYAAtGaK.jpg)
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Here's Trump about now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EnsUeR2MyI
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Here's Trump about now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EnsUeR2MyI
I knew it was just a matter of time ....
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@CatherineofAragon
I haven't been here much the last three days as I have been "re-doing" the library/TV room where I have had papers all over from bills, poetry books/sheets of paper, drawing supplies everywhere, Shakespeare books, and computer cords on the floor I have had to step over to sit on the couch and do my "work". I couldn't stand it any more and bought 10 binders with inserts to get the papers together so I can find them. Got the computer cords off the floor. I won't be falling from getting intertwined in cords. It now looks like a human being has some order in here.
What I want to tell you is, Bob's son lives in Ohio, the purple state and no candidate who has become president has won without Ohio. This son has convinced himself he has to vote for Trump due to the supreme court. I have told him Trump is insane and backed that up with what I know, but he sticks to the Supreme Court appointment(s). He can't understand it is dangerous to put an insane person in the president's office. So, that is one in Ohio who is voting for insane Trump.
The problem is people don't understand what "insane" actually means. They should spend some time in a mental hospital and see what insane people are like. I think it is entirely possible Trump can crack and be put there. I don't think he can handle the actual, real life, job of the president. I think he just wants to win and then go home to his apartment on top of Trump Tower and hang a picture of himself being sworn in as president.
It is insane to vote for an insane person. The son can't see that.
@Victoria33, I can't stand being surrounded by clutter and disorder, either. I'm glad you put your room back together the way that you wanted it.
I don't understand why people would expect decent Supreme Court appointments from a man who said he doesn't mind if the Senate goes Democrat. Or who self-identifies as partially Democrat (although we know it's more than that).
I know it has to be frustrating to try and talk sense to Bob's son, just as it is with my friend, but I guess they're desperate. They don't want to hear.
Trump cracking? I wonder if it's already happening, because this is not the act of a mentally well person:
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=218699.0 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=218699.0)
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@CatherineofAragon
What I want to tell you is, Bob's son lives in Ohio, the purple state and no candidate who has become president has won without Ohio.
@Victoria33
Actually, that's just since 1964. Ohio went for Nixon over JFK in 1960, for example.
The problem is people don't understand what "insane" actually means. They should spend some time in a mental hospital and see what insane people are like. I think it is entirely possible Trump can crack and be put there.
How many people did you see with NPD and no comorbidities? Or without another dx being the primary reason for commitment? Did you see many inpatients with Trump's condition? My guess is not many.
I think he'd just not do the job or bow out with an inane excuse before cracking and going inpatient (either volume or invol).
I think he just wants to win and then go home to his apartment on top of Trump Tower and hang a picture of himself being sworn in as president.
Agreed.
It is insane to vote for an insane person. The son can't see that.
I wouldn't say that as a blanket statement. But with this guy's insanity, yes.