The Briefing Room
General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: mystery-ak on June 13, 2021, 01:38:20 pm
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June 13, 2021
What Happens if the Election Audits Go Trump's Way?
By Andrew W. Coy
What will the military, the Supreme Court, and the people eventually do? How will the military, the Supreme Court, and the masses react to the outcome? How will the military move, how will the Supreme Court rule, and eventually do the masses rise up and take to the streets...if it becomes clear that the presidential election of 2020 was compromised, was stolen, or at the very least had way too many abnormalities and illegalities and thus the wrong person is possibly sitting in the White House? What happens if it becomes clear that President Trump was re-elected and the Progressives actually stole the election? What happens if we find out that the election was manipulated? What happens if?
We might find out these answers in the coming months. Maybe. What about the forensic audits of the popular votes in the contested key states?
Before the actual election in November, President Trump predicted cheating as you've never seen before. President Trump said there would be voter fraud like never before in U.S. history. Many people throughout the White House believed and were certain that something felonious was about to happen. At 10:30 on Election Night, President Trump was up by good margins in the key states. Then the key states shut down the election tabulations of votes "for the night." (By the way, the stopping of counting votes for the night had never happened before in presidential history.) And then when we woke up in the morning, after the tallying of votes was supposedly shut down "for the night," Joe Biden had pulled ahead, stayed ahead, and assumed the White House. As of this writing, Biden has 306 Electoral College votes, and President Trump has 232 votes. Two hundred seventy votes is the magic number to win the presidency.
But what about the forensic audits in the key contested states? Starting with Arizona, then Georgia, then Pennsylvania, then...
more
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/06/what_happens_if_the_election_audits_go_trumps_way.html
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It's already perfectly clear the election was stolen.
The Supreme Court has already decided to ignore it, and besides that, there's nothing the courts can do about it now.
The sheeple will continue to chew their cud and sacrifice their lambs for slaughter.
The media will cover it up and help to steal the next election.
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Nothing will happen wrt the sitting president.
In the end, we elect by way of electors certified by the states. That certification happened. The electors voted.
Done deal.
There may be some criminal charges... No doubt precinct level workers or leaders will be the bagholders No one of rank will suffer, at least until the next election where they will be vulnerable to the will of the people.
BUT, in the revelation, we can hope for illegitimacy plaguing the current administration, stifling popular appeal. And it could grow to the point of unrest, and the current administration having to step down (which is not a good thing... Pelousy for pres, anyone?)
We can hope for state legislatures pushing hard for serious election reforms.
But it will not take the Liberals out of power on the left.
And it will not take the Moderates out of power on the right.
So while reforms would be desirable, the power conduits will remain untouched.
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Nothing will happen wrt the sitting president.
In the end, we elect by way of electors certified by the states. That certification happened. The electors voted.
Done deal.
There may be some criminal charges... No doubt precinct level workers or leaders will be the bagholders No one of rank will suffer, at least until the next election where they will be vulnerable to the will of the people.
BUT, in the revelation, we can hope for illegitimacy plaguing the current administration, stifling popular appeal. And it could grow to the point of unrest, and the current administration having to step down (which is not a good thing... Pelousy for pres, anyone?)
We can hope for state legislatures pushing hard for serious election reforms.
But it will not take the Liberals out of power on the left.
And it will not take the Moderates out of power on the right.
So while reforms would be desirable, the power conduits will remain untouched.
What he said. :thumbsup:
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Nothing will happen wrt the sitting president.
In the end, we elect by way of electors certified by the states. That certification happened. The electors voted.
Done deal.
There may be some criminal charges... No doubt precinct level workers or leaders will be the bagholders No one of rank will suffer, at least until the next election where they will be vulnerable to the will of the people.
BUT, in the revelation, we can hope for illegitimacy plaguing the current administration, stifling popular appeal. And it could grow to the point of unrest, and the current administration having to step down (which is not a good thing... Pelousy for pres, anyone?)
We can hope for state legislatures pushing hard for serious election reforms.
But it will not take the Liberals out of power on the left.
And it will not take the Moderates out of power on the right.
So while reforms would be desirable, the power conduits will remain untouched.
I also think @roamer_1 's prediction is correct. I would add that it will fuel the belief, on the right, that the current president is illegitimate. And to a lesser extent, fuel resistance to his policies, similar to what we saw with Trump (those less due to the fact that conservatives are by nature law obeyers).
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Nothing will happen wrt the sitting president.
In the end, we elect by way of electors certified by the states. That certification happened. The electors voted.
Done deal.
Nope.
The electors were fraudulent from those states that did not obey their laws regarding elections.
Every time you repeat that lie, I'm going to correct it. EVERY TIME.
The Big Lie you promote MUST be challenged to defend the Republic. I took an oath, a long time ago, to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign AND domestic.
So I will stand against your lie as all Americans should.
As for what happens WHEN the audits show massive vote fraud?
Nothing happens except we're going to see the biggest damn lump under the media's rug that we've ever seen before, bigger even that the Clinton rape stories and Hillary's e-mails. Bigger, even, that Joe's senility.
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Nope.
The electors were fraudulent from those states that did not obey their laws regarding elections.
Every time you repeat that lie, I'm going to correct it. EVERY TIME.
The Big Lie you promote MUST be challenged to defend the Republic. I took an oath, a long time ago, to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign AND domestic.
So I will stand against your lie as all Americans should.
I believe the elections were fraudulent, so you can bitch till the cows come home.
Doesn't matter. Nothing is going to change the outcome.
The states certified. The electors voted. Done deal.
You will NOT overturn the election. Don't care if ALL the audits say so.
You cannot 'decertify' the state certification.
You will not depose Biteme.
Tumpy will not ascend victorious.
You will get criminal prosecutions at best.
You will hopefully get state legislatures shooting for hard core election reforms.
But that is all you will get.
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I believe the elections were fraudulent, so you can bitch till the cows come home.
Doesn't matter. Nothing is going to change the outcome.
The states certified. The electors voted. Done deal.
You will NOT overturn the election. Don't care if ALL the audits say so.
You cannot 'decertify' the state certification.
You will not depose Biteme.
Tumpy will not ascend victorious.
You will get criminal prosecutions at best.
You will hopefully get state legislatures shooting for hard core election reforms.
But that is all you will get.
@roamer_1 has it right. There is no provision in the Constitution to call "mulligans" on an election; the EVs were certified and that's the end of it. There are mechanisms for Biden to be removed from office, but there is no mechanism to put Trump back in and that will not happen.
However we might get more than local criminal prosecutions and state level reforms. If it becomes clear that Trump won a fair count the Biden admin will be crippled and the D agenda will suffer, and I believe the mass of people would become more demanding of transparent, auditable election results.
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@roamer_1 has it right. There is no provision in the Constitution to call "mulligans" on an election; the EVs were certified and that's the end of it. There are mechanisms for Biden to be removed from office, but there is no mechanism to put Trump back in and that will not happen.
That's right @HoustonSam ... Any findings will be shunted into criminal prosecutions. It does not change the outcome, but can only prosecute people breaking election law. All of it - All - are a criminal matter now.
However we might get more than local criminal prosecutions and state level reforms. If it becomes clear that Trump won a fair count the Biden admin will be crippled and the D agenda will suffer, and I believe the mass of people would become more demanding of transparent, auditable election results.
That's likely right. At least hopefully. However, dems will force their agenda anyway. I think the general public tone will not matter until the mid term elections, where Democrat leadership will start back-peddling for votes. But predictably, if the election is proven fraudulent, and supposing that it drives states to tighten election law, those midterms will be the Republicans' to lose.
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@roamer_1 has it right. There is no provision in the Constitution to call "mulligans" on an election; the EVs were certified and that's the end of it. There are mechanisms for Biden to be removed from office, but there is no mechanism to put Trump back in and that will not happen.
However we might get more than local criminal prosecutions and state level reforms. If it becomes clear that Trump won a fair count the Biden admin will be crippled and the D agenda will suffer, and I believe the mass of people would become more demanding of transparent, auditable election results.
When FALSE electors are "certified", those electors are still false electors.
It's really complicated, but when a turd falls in the punch bowl, it doesn't matter if the Democrats then call it Kool-Aid and demand everyone drink. There's still turd soup in the punch bowl.
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That's right @HoustonSam ... Any findings will be shunted into criminal prosecutions. It does not change the outcome, but can only prosecute people breaking election law. All of it - All - are a criminal matter now.
That's likely right. At least hopefully. However, dems will force their agenda anyway. I think the general public tone will not matter until the mid term elections, where Democrat leadership will start back-peddling for votes. But predictably, if the election is proven fraudulent, and supposing that it drives states to tighten election law, those midterms will be the Republicans' to lose.
I expect the media would continue their gaslighting campaign, and the Ds would again ramp up a cry to eliminate the Electoral College based on some distorted "reasoning" that the direct popular election of the POTUS would eliminate opportunities for state-level certification complications. But overall a demonstration that Biden was put into office fraudulently would work massively to the Rs political advantage even while leaving Biden in office.
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I expect the media would continue their gaslighting campaign, and the Ds would again ramp up a cry to eliminate the Electoral College based on some distorted "reasoning" that the direct popular election of the POTUS would eliminate opportunities for state-level certification complications. But overall a demonstration that Biden was put into office fraudulently would work massively to the Rs political advantage even while leaving Biden in office.
Yep. Likely just so...
If there is evidence to prove interstate collusion... That might be another ballgame. I don't know how that would go - but interstate would make it a federal matter, and might open it to the scrutiny of SCOTUS...
But I don't see the 'kraken' coming back to life, and that was the only interstate angle IMO... Otherwise it is five disparate and separate states and it is an internal matter to each of them.
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If there is evidence to prove interstate collusion... That might be another ballgame. I don't know how that would go - but interstate would make it a federal matter, and might open it to the scrutiny of SCOTUS...
While that is what *should* happen if interstate collusion is demonstrated, the Merrick-Garland-led DOJ made clear which side it's on last week with the threat of intervening in the AZ audit. Even interstate collusion will not reach the Federal Courts in a D administration because a D DOJ simply won't pursue the matter.
Whatever is revealed will have to "prime the pump" of popular demand for reform, and lead to a corresponding R tidal wave, for serious accountability and serious reform to happen.
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While that is what *should* happen if interstate collusion is demonstrated, the Merrick-Garland-led DOJ made clear which side it's on last week with the threat of intervening in the AZ audit. Even interstate collusion will not reach the Federal Courts in a D administration because a D DOJ simply won't pursue the matter.
Whatever is revealed will have to "prime the pump" of popular demand for reform, and lead to a corresponding R tidal wave, for serious accountability and serious reform to happen.
That's probably true.... But the whole thing is academic until proof arises that interstate collusion exists. :shrug:
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That's probably true.... But the whole thing is academic until proof arises that interstate collusion exists. :shrug:
IMHO the longer these audits go on, the longer they have time to bury any evidence. Nothing will become of any of this. Unfortunate yes. Hopefully the RNC/GOP is wiser (doubtful).
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When FALSE electors are "certified", those electors are still false electors.
It's really complicated, but when a turd falls in the punch bowl, it doesn't matter if the Democrats then call it Kool-Aid and demand everyone drink. There's still turd soup in the punch bowl.
No matter how much you swear and attack Briefers, it does not change the fact that @HoustonSam and @roamer_1 are correct: There is no remedy for the fraudulent election in the US Constitution.
Now stop calling Briefers stupid, that really puts the wild hair up my butt.
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If there is evidence to prove interstate collusion... That might be another ballgame. I don't know how that would go - but interstate would make it a federal matter, and might open it to the scrutiny of SCOTUS...
You mean like if a pallet of ballots were shipped from NY to PA in the back of a semi-trailer and got stolen from the driver? Like that?
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You mean like if a pallet ballots were shipped from NY to PA in the back of a semi-trailer and got stolen from the driver? Like that?
No, not like that. That would be portrayed as a local crime... The 'got stolen' part precludes collusion. Even if they nailed down the fact that the stolen ballots were used fraudulently, that they were stolen assumes the property owners did not want their property stolen.
Gotta do better than that.
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No, not like that. That would be portrayed as a local crime... The 'got stolen' part precludes collusion. Even if they nailed down the fact that the stolen ballots were used fraudulently, that they were stolen assumes the property owners did not want their property stolen.
Gotta do better than that.
Yeah, there's no crime in shipping ballots filled out in one state for counting in another for that other state's electoral college scam.
Seriously, someone didn't want their property...fraudulent ballots in violation of state and federal election laws, but there's no felony associated with the intent shown by both filling out the Biden ballots and then shipping them across state lines for the purpose of creating fraudulent electors?
And the word is "conspiracy", which is a felony, not "collusion" which is not anything in the law books.
And it's a conspiracy because there's a shipper making the fraudulent Biden ballots and a receiver expecting to pull them out in a suitcase when the windows are covered over with paper at the receiving end.
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IMHO the longer these audits go on, the longer they have time to bury any evidence. Nothing will become of any of this. Unfortunate yes. Hopefully the RNC/GOP is wiser (doubtful).
Nah... Well, yeah, but nah. This is not a simple recount. This is a full on forensic audit. That's a nother thing, and surely takes time, even without Dems obstructing them.
AND, I await the results of the AZ with worms in my lips (baited bated breath - A little ice fishing humor for you there)... If that shows enormous fraud, especially a concerted, deliberate, repeated fraud across counties/precincts - the SAME fraud all over and not incidental fraud of various kinds - well that would put the blood in the water.
I hope for something like that, but I refuse to get all pumped up for it... So far, all these grand occasions have piddled into nothing.
And that brings another point. If AZ only winds up showing incidental fraud, especially with all the pimping in the right facing press, If this one piddles away to nothing, well that will likely put a cap on the rest, and it will all go away. I think AZ will be definitive, one way or the other.
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No matter how much you swear and attack Briefers, it does not change the fact that @HoustonSam and @roamer_1 are correct: There is no remedy for the fraudulent election in the US Constitution.
Now stop calling Briefers stupid, that really puts the wild hair up my butt.
I don't see the word stupid in the referred post.
Please point it out.
I don't see any swear words in there, either.
Some people are truly bothered by the fact that the most critical election in US history since Abraham Lincoln was stolen, in front of our very eyes, to install a senile meat puppet, disenfranchising ALL Americans.
And some people get excited, not at the fact of the theft, but at the persistence of some to reject the lie that it was not stolen.
You might also want to point to the place where I said there was a remedy to the Stolen Election.
If you can do anyone of those three things, your post might have a slight chance of remotely connected to reality.
People who say there were no false electors, they're wrong.
People who say there were no false electors because the legislature "certified" the false electors who were falsely selected by a process the legislature did not approve of before the election, those people are also wrong. Games are not sanctified as a win for one team after that team changes the rules in the middle of play....doesn't matter how much the referees are paid, after.
But, good try.
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Yeah, there's no crime in shipping ballots filled out in one state for counting in another for that other state's electoral college scam.
Seriously, someone didn't want their property...fraudulent ballots in violation of state and federal election laws, but there's no felony associated with the intent shown by both filling out the Biden ballots and then shipping them across state lines for the purpose of creating fraudulent electors?
And the word is "conspiracy", which is a felony, not "collusion" which is not anything in the law books.
And it's a conspiracy because there's a shipper making the fraudulent Biden ballots and a receiver expecting to pull them out in a suitcase when the windows are covered over with paper at the receiving end.
As always, you are concerned with what you think it is...
I am concerned with how you prove it.
Because it isn't anything unless you can prove it.
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As always, you are concerned with what you think it is...
I am concerned with how you prove it.
Because it isn't anything unless you can prove it.
That's exactly what it takes; proving your side of the case and winning.
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The Founders and authors of the Constitution neglected to put anything into the document to address the possibility of fraudulent elections.
Perhaps it just seemed unfathomable to them at the time that election fraud could occur on a widespread scale.
So... even if it can be "proven" that the election was stolen, and that an "underground election apparatus" to control elections was in fact constructed in 2020 (and might still be extant today), there's nothing that can be done about it. Other than to pursue charges against those who ran the apparatus at the local levels, and to try to take action that they won't be able to do more of the same next time around.
At some point it may fall to "the people" to handle matters and dismantle such apparati themselves.
Think, "Battle of Athens" scenarios...
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Nothing will happen.
Not because there was anything at all legit about the election, because nothing was.
Nothing will happen because those who should do something lack the courage.
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Nothing will happen.
Not because there was anything at all legit about the election, because nothing was.
Nothing will happen because those who should do something lack the courage.
You are correct. Those who could do something, did nothing; Pence and SCOTUS destroyed our Republic.
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You are correct. Those who could do something, did nothing; Pence and SCOTUS destroyed our Republic.
One result that may come from any such audit conclusion could be the nation & world are finally forced to conclude the rat party, in a collusion of sorts with the GOP, is actually a kind of criminal enterprise not ordained by the people.
In which case DC will be forced to throw their usual pretenses to the wind and start ruling like Nicolas Maduro. Which they already kinda are.
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The Founders and authors of the Constitution neglected to put anything into the document to address the possibility of fraudulent elections.
Perhaps it just seemed unfathomable to them at the time that election fraud could occur on a widespread scale.
So... even if it can be "proven" that the election was stolen, and that an "underground election apparatus" to control elections was in fact constructed in 2020 (and might still be extant today), there's nothing that can be done about it. Other than to pursue charges against those who ran the apparatus at the local levels, and to try to take action that they won't be able to do more of the same next time around.
At some point it may fall to "the people" to handle matters and dismantle such apparati themselves.
Think, "Battle of Athens" scenarios...
There is some provision to challenge an election - But the bars are raised high on purpose. The way it is designed promotes finality, and I am alright with that - The reason being that every election would be challenged eternally otherwise.
As to the 'underground apparatus', I believe that has been functioning most of my life. There is a reason no Republican worth his salt can be elected in the northeast. There is a reason why no Republican of measure can get elected in Chicago or LA or Seattle... Therein their shenanigans are perfected... But since around the Clinton election, I think that has been being imposed upon the federal elections as well - And they are figuring out how to take the game national.
And it is working. Largely because of collusion on the part of Republicans, but it is working.
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You are correct. Those who could do something, did nothing; Pence and SCOTUS destroyed our Republic.
I disagree with the common thought on Pence's actions here... And largely agree with SCOTUS refusing to touch it. I think the precedence that would be set in both those cases would come back to bite you.
I don't think that is a matter of courage. I think what folks think is wrong...
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I disagree with the common thought on Pence's actions here... And largely agree with SCOTUS refusing to touch it. I think the precedence that would be set in both those cases would come back to bite you.
I don't think that is a matter of courage. I think what folks think is wrong...
SCOTUS could have ruled that States must comply with Federal election law and their own State's election laws. Several states didn't comply. Though the courts ruled against the argument of Pence and the 12th Amendment giving Pence, not the states, sole discretion to determine which among competing slates of electors may be counted, it certainly should have been a consideration on his part as he still had the obligation as President of the Senate to preside over the election -- if there were fraudulent votes (as it became increasingly obvious) he had a duty to throw out or not certify those votes. This was not so much about trying to overturn an election, but to have some validity and verification of a fair election.
Pence certainly should have NOT determined the election, but he certainly shouldn't have certified fraudulent votes.
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SCOTUS could have ruled that States must comply with Federal election law and their own State's election laws. Several states didn't comply.
I don't think it is that cut and dried. Without a deep perusal of state laws and precedence, it is hard telling what legally changes functional state law in the face of contingencies and emergencies. I think it would take a whole herd of lawyers to determine that. And that is the advantage here... Because of the 'emergency' of the 'plandemic' there is probably wiggle room in state law. It is horrible that such a thing would be used as an advantage... But there it is.
Though the courts ruled against the 12th Amendment it was argued that the 12th Amendment gives Pence, not the states, sole discretion to determine which among competing slates of electors may be counted.
I find that idea to be dubious... And without some precedence in history, it seems to be plowing new ground. Not saying wrt legality, but I can assume that plowing new ground is always to be taken with a sideways glance.
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Pence certainly should have NOT determined the election, but he certainly shouldn't have certified fraudulent votes.
Missed this: At the time there was just a hue and cry with little evidence. Heck there ain't nothing proven even yet... Seems to be asking a lot, and that in a highly partisan and Pro-Tump manner... Favoring his own administration. I can see why he would not want to go there.
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https://www.manufacturedhomepronews.com/masthead/leo-donofrio-writ-of-quo-warranto-legal-solution-to-election-fraud-potus-trump-vs-biden-path-to-stop-millions-of-jobs-vanishing-oligarchs-power-gra/ (https://www.manufacturedhomepronews.com/masthead/leo-donofrio-writ-of-quo-warranto-legal-solution-to-election-fraud-potus-trump-vs-biden-path-to-stop-millions-of-jobs-vanishing-oligarchs-power-gra/)
Quo warranto is the exact legal process in our national history used to correct election fraud, error, or lawlessness. For example, in a case from 2003, New York’s highest court held that when a voting machine jammed, causing just 37 votes to be challenged, a writ of quo warranto was the proper procedure, stating:
“Challenges to the outcome of a general election based upon alleged voting machine malfunctions necessarily fall within the purview of quo warranto.”
Will Congress impeach themselves for that body having previously enacted a statute to contest election results? § 16-3545 states that Biden/Harris will be ousted from the Office of President if the evidence goes against them:
“Where a defendant in a quo warranto proceeding is found by the jury to have usurped, intruded into, or unlawfully held or exercised an office or franchise, the verdict shall be that he is guilty of the act or acts in question, and judgment shall be rendered that he be ousted and excluded therefrom and that the relator recover his costs.”
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https://www.manufacturedhomepronews.com/masthead/leo-donofrio-writ-of-quo-warranto-legal-solution-to-election-fraud-potus-trump-vs-biden-path-to-stop-millions-of-jobs-vanishing-oligarchs-power-gra/ (https://www.manufacturedhomepronews.com/masthead/leo-donofrio-writ-of-quo-warranto-legal-solution-to-election-fraud-potus-trump-vs-biden-path-to-stop-millions-of-jobs-vanishing-oligarchs-power-gra/)
I think that is largely wishful thinking.
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We can hope for state legislatures pushing hard for serious election reforms.
Which they should have done the last time the GOP was in control of those states, but let's hope this last election was the kick in the butt they needed.
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SCOTUS could have ruled that States must comply with Federal election law and their own State's election laws. Several states didn't comply. Though the courts ruled against the argument of Pence and the 12th Amendment giving Pence, not the states, sole discretion to determine which among competing slates of electors may be counted, it certainly should have been a consideration on his part as he still had the obligation as President of the Senate to preside over the election -- if there were fraudulent votes (as it became increasingly obvious) he had a duty to throw out or not certify those votes. This was not so much about trying to overturn an election, but to have some validity and verification of a fair election.
Pence certainly should have NOT determined the election, but he certainly shouldn't have certified fraudulent votes.
SCOTUS rejection of the Paxton case is one of the few issues on which @roamer_1 and I disagree, and even in our disagreement I acknowledge that he has a legitimate case.
The idea that Pence could have done anything other than what he did has always been absurd. Not a single word in the Twelfth Amendment even remotely suggests that the President of the Senate has any authority to reject state-certified electoral votes. The only action of the President of the Senate according to the 12 A is :
"The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;"
There is no Constitutional basis for determining that EVs are "fraudulent", even if we all agree they do not represent the truth. The sole authority to determine that EVs are official and to be counted is the authority of the state to certify the EVs. The President of the Senate does not certify anything; there is no such Constitutional authority other than the state.
And if Pence *could have* rejected EVs during the count, they why couldn't Kamala Harris do the exact same thing during the 2025 count? All she would need would be a rump set of EVs sent up by the D state legislators in any state won by the R candidate. We all agree that the Ds will shamelessly lie and cheat and the media will cover for them; what would stop her from rejecting enough R EVs to throw the election to the D candidate?
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And if Pence *could have* rejected EVs during the count, they why couldn't Kamala Harris do the exact same thing during the 2025 count? All she would need would be a rump set of EVs sent up by the D state legislators in any state won by the R candidate. We all agree that the Ds will shamelessly lie and cheat and the media will cover for them; what would stop her from rejecting enough R EVs to throw the election to the D candidate?
Don't put it past her or whoever the VP is then...The Dems of course will try to steal the 2022-2025 elections count on it.
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Don't put it past her or whoever the VP is then...The Dems of course will try to steal the 2022-2025 elections count on it.
I don't put anything past them. So why pave the way for them by asserting something that is flatly against the plain language of the 12th Amendment, and that openly invites abuse?
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SCOTUS rejection of the Paxton case is one of the few issues on which @roamer_1 and I disagree, and even in our disagreement I acknowledge that he has a legitimate case.
The idea that Pence could have done anything other than what he did has always been absurd. Not a single word in the Twelfth Amendment even remotely suggests that the President of the Senate has any authority to reject state-certified electoral votes. The only action of the President of the Senate according to the 12 A is :
"The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;"
There is no Constitutional basis for determining that EVs are "fraudulent", even if we all agree they do not represent the truth. The sole authority to determine that EVs are official and to be counted is the authority of the state to certify the EVs. The President of the Senate does not certify anything; there is no such Constitutional authority other than the state.
And if Pence *could have* rejected EVs during the count, they why couldn't Kamala Harris do the exact same thing during the 2025 count? All she would need would be a rump set of EVs sent up by the D state legislators in any state won by the R candidate. We all agree that the Ds will shamelessly lie and cheat and the media will cover for them; what would stop her from rejecting enough R EVs to throw the election to the D candidate?
Points very well made.
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Points very well made.
Thank you @libertybele . I know you see this differently and I appreciate you fairly considering my position.
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Which they should have done the last time the GOP was in control of those states, but let's hope this last election was the kick in the butt they needed.
That's right. :beer:
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I don't put anything past them. So why pave the way for them by asserting something that is flatly against the plain language of the 12th Amendment, and that openly invites abuse?
No I completely agree with you...I'm just saying after the 2020 election we now know the Dems will do anything to win..and I don't trust SCOTUS to get involved.
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SCOTUS rejection of the Paxton case is one of the few issues on which @roamer_1 and I disagree, and even in our disagreement I acknowledge that he has a legitimate case.
:beer: :seeya:
And if Pence *could have* rejected EVs during the count, they why couldn't Kamala Harris do the exact same thing during the 2025 count? All she would need would be a rump set of EVs sent up by the D state legislators in any state won by the R candidate. We all agree that the Ds will shamelessly lie and cheat and the media will cover for them; what would stop her from rejecting enough R EVs to throw the election to the D candidate?
Ahh... the old law of unintended consequences... And directly what I meant elsewhere and always about setting new precedents.
That is right, exactly.
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No, not like that. That would be portrayed as a local crime... The 'got stolen' part precludes collusion. Even if they nailed down the fact that the stolen ballots were used fraudulently, that they were stolen assumes the property owners did not want their property stolen.
Gotta do better than that.
The truck crossed State lines. It doesn't get any better than that, if I properly understand your previous post. The whole kibosh you described was based on the crime not crossing State lines, and that one most certainly did.
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The truck crossed State lines. It doesn't get any better than that, if I properly understand your previous post. The whole kibosh you described was based on the crime not crossing State lines, and that one most certainly did.
Perhaps I am mistaken. I had it that the truck made it to town, and that the ballots were 'stolen' locally.
Doesn't matter, as the one receiving the 'stolen' goods will be the one hung with it, and unless that is a democrat of caliber, that is likely a precinct or county problem.
It is dang hard to prove interstate conspiracy. The collusion has to cross state lines. That's why the Kraken was so neat. That collusion surely crossed all state lines and tied them all together.
and if wishes were wings, a frogs ass wouldn't bump the ground. :shrug:
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It's already perfectly clear the election was stolen.
The Supreme Court has already decided to ignore it, and besides that, there's nothing the courts can do about it now.
The sheeple will continue to chew their cud and sacrifice their lambs for slaughter.
The media will cover it up and help to steal the next election.
You do not understand this country whatsoever.
The supreme court is not the final arbiter.
The states are, which formed the Supreme Court, Congress, and the Presidency by drawing up the US Constitution.
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@roamer_1 has it right. There is no provision in the Constitution to call "mulligans" on an election; the EVs were certified and that's the end of it. There are mechanisms for Biden to be removed from office, but there is no mechanism to put Trump back in and that will not happen.
However we might get more than local criminal prosecutions and state level reforms. If it becomes clear that Trump won a fair count the Biden admin will be crippled and the D agenda will suffer, and I believe the mass of people would become more demanding of transparent, auditable election results.
Respectfully, that is not the point.
The federal elections are arranged by the states, who are the ones who made the Constitution.
They remain the final arbiter, not some federal administrator or court.
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Perhaps I am mistaken. I had it that the truck made it to town, and that the ballots were 'stolen' locally.
Doesn't matter, as the one receiving the 'stolen' goods will be the one hung with it, and unless that is a democrat of caliber, that is likely a precinct or county problem.
It is dang hard to prove interstate conspiracy. The collusion has to cross state lines. That's why the Kraken was so neat. That collusion surely crossed all state lines and tied them all together.
and if wishes were wings, a frogs ass wouldn't bump the ground. :shrug:
The theft of the truck is irrelevant. Pallets of completed ballots crossing State lines are relevant. This implies that thousands of ballots were cast out-of-state, should at least have triggered a Federal investigation to see if they were indeed filled out and counted, and it did not.
The Feds were too busy ensuring the steal in PA.
Side question: Do you have any idea how many States send people to Phoenix to see how the Audit is being conducted. So far, it's all five "swing states" and a growing number more. People from Utah were here yesterday because Salt Lake City used Dominion machines.
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Respectfully, that is not the point.
The federal elections are arranged by the states, who are the ones who made the Constitution.
They remain the final arbiter, not some federal administrator or court.
The thread topic is "What Happens if the Election Audits Go Trump's Way?" I don't see how an opinion on that question - the election will not be "overturned" - cannot be the point.
I think the states *were* the final arbiter in 2020; SCOTUS refused to entertain any challenge to PA so refrained from acting as an arbiter, and Pence refused to entertain the idea that he could de-certify what the states had certified so also refrained from acting as an arbiter.
For clarity I'll re-state what I've stated above : I think SCOTUS was wrong because the states should expect each other to act in accord with the Constitution and the states have no other forum for that question to be resolved, and Pence was right because the Constitution gives him no authority to certify or de-certify any EVs.
I'm not sure where we are in disagreement here.
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The theft of the truck is irrelevant. Pallets of completed ballots crossing State lines are relevant. This implies that thousands of ballots were cast out-of-state, should at least have triggered a Federal investigation to see if they were indeed filled out and counted, and it did not.
The Feds were too busy ensuring the steal in PA.
I get what you are saying, but bet me money that a precinct captain takes the hit if there ever is one.
Side question: Do you have any idea how many States send people to Phoenix to see how the Audit is being conducted. So far, it's all five "swing states" and a growing number more. People from Utah were here yesterday because Salt Lake City used Dominion machines.
Yeah, I am seeing that. I surely hope this whole deal don't piddle out and we find out there never was a was.
I am reserving my excitement until it turns into something of substance. I would LOVE for Dominion to be on the hook.
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Yeah, I am seeing that. I surely hope this whole deal don't piddle out and we find out there never was a was.
I am reserving my excitement until it turns into something of substance. I would LOVE for Dominion to be on the hook.
I am right there with you brother @roamer_1 ; nothing would make me happier than audits in multiple states proving that a fair count was won by Trump and writing the name "Dominion" next to "Watergate" in US political history.
But I also recognize that wishful thinking is only wishful, not thinking.
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The thread topic is "What Happens if the Election Audits Go Trump's Way?" I don't see how an opinion on that question - the election will not be "overturned" - cannot be the point.
I think the states *were* the final arbiter in 2020; SCOTUS refused to entertain any challenge to PA so refrained from acting as an arbiter, and Pence refused to entertain the idea that he could de-certify what the states had certified so also refrained from acting as an arbiter.
For clarity I'll re-state what I've stated above : I think SCOTUS was wrong because the states should expect each other to act in accord with the Constitution and the states have no other forum for that question to be resolved, and Pence was right because the Constitution gives him no authority to certify or de-certify any EVs.
I'm not sure where we are in disagreement here.
I understand what you are saying that there are no provisions within the Constitution for redos.
So what? The states have the final authority in deciding what to do in a fraudulent election. If the states wish to, they could overturn any federal election, with enough states participating.
If not enough states participate in overturning, then any state can simply leave a Union which is proven to be fraudulent. What good is a Constitution if it is supported by fraud?
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I am right there with you brother @roamer_1 ; nothing would make me happier than audits in multiple states proving that a fair count was won by Trump and writing the name "Dominion" next to "Watergate" in US political history.
But I also recognize that wishful thinking is only wishful, not thinking.
That's right... And why I have counseled all along to wait until it is proven. REALLY proven... Which AZ is fixin to do (I hope).
They are playing their official cards close to the chest. I hope for good reason. :0001: :beer:
Even ol @Cyber Liberty ain't hardly gave us a proper peep.
When do they lay down their cards Cyber, do you know yet? Last I heard they should be done with the count.
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That's right... And why I have counseled all along to wait until it is proven. REALLY proven... Which AZ is fixin to do (I hope).
They are playing their official cards close to the chest. I hope for good reason. :0001: :beer:
Even ol @Cyber Liberty ain't hardly gave us a proper peep.
When do they lay down their cards Cyber, do you know yet? Last I heard they should be done with the count.
This says end of June, then a report.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/elected-officials-from-across-country-tour-maricopa-county-election-audit
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This says end of June, then a report.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/elected-officials-from-across-country-tour-maricopa-county-election-audit
Thank you... So mid-July at best I suppose...
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I understand what you are saying that there are no provisions within the Constitution for redos.
So what? The states have the final authority in deciding what to do in a fraudulent election. If the states wish to, they could overturn any federal election, with enough states participating.
If not enough states participate in overturning, then any state can simply leave a Union which is proven to be fraudulent. What good is a Constitution if it is supported by fraud?
Ah, thanks, now I am with you. And I agree. But it's not clear what even a group of states could do within the current Constitution.
Having said that I still believe in the right of secession. Although the "arc of history" in the US has consistently strengthened the Fed Gov at the expense of the states, current events might reveal that trend has been one swing of a pendulum, rather than a ratchet. Part of me would *really like to see* some Federal agents arrested by the State of Arizona for attempting to interfere in the audit, and to see AZ makes those arrests stick regardless of what DOJ or SCOTUS might say about them.
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Ah, thanks, now I am with you. And I agree. But it's not clear what even a group of states could do within the current Constitution.
Having said that I still believe in the right of secession. Although the "arc of history" in the US has consistently strengthened the Fed Gov at the expense of the states, current events might reveal that trend has been one swing of a pendulum, rather than a ratchet. Part of me would *really like to see* some Federal agents arrested by the State of Arizona for attempting to interfere in the audit, and to see AZ makes those arrests stick regardless of what DOJ or SCOTUS might say about them.
38 states can throw away the Constitution in its entirety, as well as disband Congress, remove the Supreme Court and fire the President.. That amount is the ultimate arbiter.
And believe me, if a group of states conducts audits and find that a foreign government like China caused a fraudulent election that elected Biden, then that would have an enormous influence the rest of the states would have great difficulty in going up against.
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38 states can throw away the Constitution in its entirety, as well as disband Congress, remove the Supreme Court and fire the President.. That amount is the ultimate arbiter.
And believe me, if a group of states conducts audits and find that a foreign government like China caused a fraudulent election that elected Biden, then that would have an enormous influence the rest of the states would have great difficulty in going up against.
Yes if a group of state audits found that result it would be a huge upheaval. But speculating about a foreign government being behind the steal seems like a big step to take right now. Of course the Ds and their publicists in the media ran with a very similar lie for three years but we need not speculate; let's see what AZ's audit says and whether other states follow suit.
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38 states can throw away the Constitution in its entirety, as well as disband Congress, remove the Supreme Court and fire the President.. That amount is the ultimate arbiter.
And believe me, if a group of states conducts audits and find that a foreign government like China caused a fraudulent election that elected Biden, then that would have an enormous influence the rest of the states would have great difficulty in going up against.
We couldn't find one judge with the cojones to actually proceed with an election challenge, and you think 38 state legislatures are going to do it?
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We couldn't find one judge with the cojones to actually proceed with an election challenge, and you think 38 state legislatures are going to do it?
Ah, the argument " We can't fight against the British, as it has the most powerful country on earth and we are simple colonialists"
Where would we be if those colonialists had listened to those arguments?
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I get what you are saying, but bet me money that a precinct captain takes the hit if there ever is one.
Yeah, I am seeing that. I surely hope this whole deal don't piddle out and we find out there never was a was.
I am reserving my excitement until it turns into something of substance. I would LOVE for Dominion to be on the hook.
We are on the same page here. Champagne remains corked.
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June 13, 2021
What Happens if the Election Audits Go Trump's Way?
By Andrew W. Coy
What will the military, the Supreme Court, and the people eventually do? How will the military, the Supreme Court, and the masses react to the outcome? How will the military move, how will the Supreme Court rule, and eventually do the masses rise up and take to the streets...if it becomes clear that the presidential election of 2020 was compromised, was stolen, or at the very least had way too many abnormalities and illegalities and thus the wrong person is possibly sitting in the White House? What happens if it becomes clear that President Trump was re-elected and the Progressives actually stole the election? What happens if we find out that the election was manipulated? What happens if?
We might find out these answers in the coming months. Maybe. What about the forensic audits of the popular votes in the contested key states?
Before the actual election in November, President Trump predicted cheating as you've never seen before. President Trump said there would be voter fraud like never before in U.S. history. Many people throughout the White House believed and were certain that something felonious was about to happen. At 10:30 on Election Night, President Trump was up by good margins in the key states. Then the key states shut down the election tabulations of votes "for the night." (By the way, the stopping of counting votes for the night had never happened before in presidential history.) And then when we woke up in the morning, after the tallying of votes was supposedly shut down "for the night," Joe Biden had pulled ahead, stayed ahead, and assumed the White House. As of this writing, Biden has 306 Electoral College votes, and President Trump has 232 votes. Two hundred seventy votes is the magic number to win the presidency.
But what about the forensic audits in the key contested states? Starting with Arizona, then Georgia, then Pennsylvania, then...
more
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/06/what_happens_if_the_election_audits_go_trumps_way.html
I agree...nothing will happen. First off the forensic audits will show NOTHING, as those cannot be allowed to see the light of day.
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That's right... And why I have counseled all along to wait until it is proven. REALLY proven... Which AZ is fixin to do (I hope).
They are playing their official cards close to the chest. I hope for good reason. :0001: :beer:
Even ol @Cyber Liberty ain't hardly gave us a proper peep.
When do they lay down their cards Cyber, do you know yet? Last I heard they should be done with the count.
The count should be finished today, then they are moving on to the scanners, so the report is due in about 3 weeks. I've been checking in on the live cam website,and the table configuration has been changing to fewer counting tables, and more scanning equipment is being moved in.
So far, it's been revealed there are missing ballots...the total number of votes are not the same as in November. Many boxes of ballots have no seals, or broken seals, and the number of ballots in some boxes are less than the number on the box receipts. The Auditors will be accused of removing Biden ballots, so the next line of denial is already being developed by the Rats.
They don't really care what the counts are at this point because the Rats think it is going Trump's way and they have to discredit the Audit. When they are not trying to stop the Audit outright, they are insisting the Audit is crooked. This is likely to be the new war.
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So far, it's been revealed there are missing ballots...the total number of votes are not the same as in November. Many boxes of ballots have no seals, or broken seals, and the number of ballots in some boxes are less than the number on the box receipts. The Auditors will be accused of removing Biden ballots, so the next line of denial is already being developed by the Rats.
They don't really care what the counts are at this point because the Rats think it is going Trump's way and they have to discredit the Audit. When they are not trying to stop the Audit outright, they are insisting the Audit is crooked. This is likely to be the new war.
Sorry @Cyber Liberty I guess I should know this, but I don't. Was there an initial attempt to allow for "bi-partisan" participation in the audit, or is there any mechanism for "neutral" observation of the audit?
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Could Kamala Harris Steal the 2024 Election for Biden — Or Herself?
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,439921.new.html#new
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Sorry @Cyber Liberty I guess I should know this, but I don't. Was there an initial attempt to allow for "bi-partisan" participation in the audit, or is there any mechanism for "neutral" observation of the audit?
The Democrats refused to participate, and instead brought in about 90 lawyers to file case after case. It doesn't matter that they lost them all, they just want to get the story out there that Republicans are trying to steal the election by fraud of their own.
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Oh yes, for sure I'm breathlessly awaiting reports of election fraud out of AZ that will conclusively prove that TRUMP WON!!! HE WAS CHEATED!!!
Actually, I'm not. Why do I get the feeling no amount of tallies, audits, checks, etc. will convince people who desperately want to believe that the election wasn't stolen?
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The Democrats refused to participate, and instead brought in about 90 lawyers to file case after case. It doesn't matter that they lost them all, they just want to get the story out there that Republicans are trying to steal the election by fraud of their own.
Agreed, the Ds just want to establish a "narrative." But if they had a chance to participate and refused, that is a solid rebuttal to their predictable claims that the audit itself was a stacked deck.
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Why do I get the feeling no amount of tallies, audits, checks, etc. will convince people who desperately want to believe that the election wasn't stolen?
Audits won't convince anyone who wants to believe the election was stolen, just like they won't convince anyone who wants to believe the election was spotlessly pure.
But for fair-minded people who are open to critical thinking, audits might provide useful information. Perhaps that information will be that evidence for fraud is scant. Do you have a problem with that?
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The count should be finished today, then they are moving on to the scanners, so the report is due in about 3 weeks. I've been checking in on the live cam website,and the table configuration has been changing to fewer counting tables, and more scanning equipment is being moved in.
So far, it's been revealed there are missing ballots...the total number of votes are not the same as in November. Many boxes of ballots have no seals, or broken seals, and the number of ballots in some boxes are less than the number on the box receipts. The Auditors will be accused of removing Biden ballots, so the next line of denial is already being developed by the Rats.
They don't really care what the counts are at this point because the Rats think it is going Trump's way and they have to discredit the Audit. When they are not trying to stop the Audit outright, they are insisting the Audit is crooked. This is likely to be the new war.
The more I read, the more I am convinced we can't coexist peacefully with these people. They have an incompatible set of beliefs, have zero qualms about cheating to get their way, and are increasingly talking about trampling the rights of those that hold dissenting views. It is really quite disheartening. I only see two possible outcomes, and neither bodes well for our nation.
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Oh yes, for sure I'm breathlessly awaiting reports of election fraud out of AZ that will conclusively prove that TRUMP WON!!! HE WAS CHEATED!!!
Actually, I'm not. Why do I get the feeling no amount of tallies, audits, checks, etc. will convince people who desperately want to believe that the election wasn't stolen?
888mouth
I'm still waiting for the Kracken.
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888mouth
I'm still waiting for the Kracken.
I think the lawsuits from Dominion shut that horsecrap down. I never believed the Dems had some electronic vote switching scheme. They don't need that to cheat. They've been cheating for decades using more mundane techniques such as discarding or damaging ballots, injecting batches of fraudulent ballots, and organized efforts to register bogus voters. The distributed nature of those makes them much less risky.
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I understand what you are saying that there are no provisions within the Constitution for redos.
So what? The states have the final authority in deciding what to do in a fraudulent election. If the states wish to, they could overturn any federal election, with enough states participating.
If not enough states participate in overturning, then any state can simply leave a Union which is proven to be fraudulent. What good is a Constitution if it is supported by fraud?
Yes. The process you are describing in how the States would gather together to overturn a federal election is their power granted them by the Constitution to assemble an Article V Convention of the States. Then then can write the Do-Over Amendment.
No state can leave the Union, the Constitution does not permit this.
So first, they'd have to assemble an Article V Convention of the States to Amend the Constitution to permit secession. The corollary to this would be if the Amendment would permit merely voluntary departure or is Expulsion on the table? Be funny if Kansas was Expelled. Just that tiny inconsequential state surrounded on all sides by the United States... A hole in the map, as it were...
Never gonna happen. But the Article V Convention of States is the only way it could happen lawfully, unless Congress was looney enough to write those amendments.
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Yes if a group of state audits found that result it would be a huge upheaval. But speculating about a foreign government being behind the steal seems like a big step to take right now. Of course the Ds and their publicists in the media ran with a very similar lie for three years but we need not speculate; let's see what AZ's audit says and whether other states follow suit.
Does is sound like a "big step"? Really?
Ask ANY Rodent in 2018 about how evil Russia was for buying Donald Trump. See what they would have said.
But we do know that China has been buying up Rodents since the Clinton Regime. Look at all the Chinese spies associated with Nancy Pelosi and Dianne Frankenstein and Duke Nuke'm. Look at all the influence China has on major US industries, where the manufacturing is done.
It's far more believable...almost a certainty, that China has been adding to the corruption of the Rodents for decades.
But the media that blasted their Russia! Russia! Russia! lies on Trump will sweep any such China evidence under the rug.
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Does is sound like a "big step"? Really?
Ask ANY Rodent in 2018 about how evil Russia was for buying Donald Trump. See what they would have said.
But we do know that China has been buying up Rodents since the Clinton Regime. Look at all the Chinese spies associated with Nancy Pelosi and Dianne Frankenstein and Duke Nuke'm. Look at all the influence China has on major US industries, where the manufacturing is done.
It's far more believable...almost a certainty, that China has been adding to the corruption of the Rodents for decades.
But the media that blasted their Russia! Russia! Russia! lies on Trump will sweep any such China evidence under the rug.
I'm with @HoustonSam: Let's wait for a crime to be exposed before we start accusing.
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I'm with @HoustonSam: Let's wait for a crime to be exposed before we start accusing.
The last thing we need right now is "Son of Kraken."
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The idea that China has attacked us in this manner and will get away with it REALLY sticks in my craw but apparently that has happened.
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I'm with @HoustonSam: Let's wait for a crime to be exposed before we start accusing.
Seriously?
We've already GOT the confession.
Joe Biden "we're running the biggest vote fraud operation in history".
I think that's exposure.
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Seriously?
We've already GOT the confession.
Joe Biden "we're running the biggest vote fraud operation in history".
I think that's exposure.
No, that's another one of Shortbus Joe Biden's malapropisms.
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No, that's another one of Shortbus Joe Biden's malapropisms.
No.
It was an inadvertent confession.
Firstly, Freudian slips reveal what's really in the speaker's mind, so he, with a weak mind, said fraud because he meant fraud.
Secondly, you people need to stop trying to carry the Rodents over the finish line. Their history is clear, here are the following rules normal Americans apply to Rodents.
Don't assign to mistake what is more likely malice.
Don't assign to accident was it most likely deliberate action.
Don't waste the presumption of innocence on Rodents, their words and actions scream "Guilty As Charged".
Don't waste charity on a Rodent. Not in cash, not in deed, not in thought. Charity is for the innocent. Rodents see charity as weakness and exploit it every time.
STOP pretending the Rodents can be reformed. Lying, cheating, stealing, slavery and murder are their natures, no their aberrations.
Don't you people get it yet? They HATE you. They hate what you stand for and they hate you for standing for it. If allowed to seize the chance, like now with the Grand Theft Election, they have to chance to do permanent harm to you, to your family and to your country, because they hate ALL of that.
Stop playing NICE.
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Sorry, I'm not a clinical Psychologist, nor do I play one on TeeVee. :shrug:
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The roles people who concede the benefit of the doubt to rodents have their role on TV and the movies. They played in The Sting. As the mark.
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@mystery-ak
It will never happen because the RNC and NOT allow people to know they allowed the Dims to not only do it,but to get away with it.
Not only for personal reasons,but essentially,it would be admitting our government no longer works,and that they should all be put out of office.
It would create chaos and riots in the streets.
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Quoting @roamer_1
"Nothing will happen wrt the sitting president.
In the end, we elect by way of electors certified by the states. That certification happened. The electors voted.
Done deal."
Yup,just like with JFK. He father even admitting to buying the votes he needed to become President.
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Nope.
The electors were fraudulent from those states that did not obey their laws regarding elections.
Every time you repeat that lie, I'm going to correct it. EVERY TIME.
The Big Lie you promote MUST be challenged to defend the Republic. I took an oath, a long time ago, to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign AND domestic.
So I will stand against your lie as all Americans should.
As for what happens WHEN the audits show massive vote fraud?
Nothing happens except we're going to see the biggest damn lump under the media's rug that we've ever seen before, bigger even that the Clinton rape stories and Hillary's e-mails. Bigger, even, that Joe's senility.
@Sled Dog
Roamer is a big boy and is perfectly capable of defending himself,but he does NOT lie. He is OFTEN wrong about politics,but being wrong doesn't make someone a liar.
He just stated a truth so obvious that even a blind man would have to wear shades to look at it.
You don't like it,and neither do I or many other people,but that doesn't mean it is a lie,OR that he is wrong.
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When FALSE electors are "certified", those electors are still false electors.
It's really complicated, but when a turd falls in the punch bowl, it doesn't matter if the Democrats then call it Kool-Aid and demand everyone drink. There's still turd soup in the punch bowl.
@Sled Dog
So what? What are YOU going to do about it,eat the turd and hope that changes history?
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IMHO the longer these audits go on, the longer they have time to bury any evidence. Nothing will become of any of this. Unfortunate yes. Hopefully the RNC/GOP is wiser (doubtful).
@libertybele
Hell,the audits HELP them identify what they need to hide the most.
And NOTHING is going to change unless Trump is elected to be our next President. He is the ONLY one with the stones to open boxes and expose the corruption because he is NOT a career politician and they have nothing on him.
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You mean like if a pallet of ballots were shipped from NY to PA in the back of a semi-trailer and got stolen from the driver? Like that?
@Cyber Liberty
Whut choo talk-in bout,Willis? Dat jes bees a coinkydink!
Deys nutting to see here folks,go on home.
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Nothing will happen.
Not because there was anything at all legit about the election, because nothing was.
Nothing will happen because those who should do something lack the courage.
@skeeter
Sadly,there is also a lot of "If you don't rat me out,I won't rat you out!" going on.
Don't forget,a lot of these pols have known each other and what each other were doing for decades.
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@Sled Dog
So what? What are YOU going to do about it,eat the turd and hope that changes history?
I'm not going to roll over and pretend the Lie isn't in effect.
Isn't that the first rule, don't play pretend?
There something wrong with insisting on honesty?
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@Sled Dog
Roamer is a big boy and is perfectly capable of defending himself,but he does NOT lie. He is OFTEN wrong about politics,but being wrong doesn't make someone a liar.
He just stated a truth so obvious that even a blind man would have to wear shades to look at it.
You don't like it,and neither do I or many other people,but that doesn't mean it is a lie,OR that he is wrong.
People have all sorts of religious beliefs.
Some are harmless.
Others shatter the Republic.
Pretending an election stolen right in front of everyone is actually a six-foot tall white rabbit named Harvey isn't a healthy cult to be part of.
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@Sled Dog
Roamer is a big boy and is perfectly capable of defending himself,but he does NOT lie. He is OFTEN wrong about politics,but being wrong doesn't make someone a liar.
He just stated a truth so obvious that even a blind man would have to wear shades to look at it.
You don't like it,and neither do I or many other people,but that doesn't mean it is a lie,OR that he is wrong.
Thank you for that @sneakypete - And FWIW, I don't like it either. But it is what it is.
Though I am not often wrong about politics. Just painfully real. happy77
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People have all sorts of religious beliefs.
Some are harmless.
Others shatter the Republic.
Pretending an election stolen right in front of everyone is actually a six-foot tall white rabbit named Harvey isn't a healthy cult to be part of.
That is not the case, and you know it.
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Audits won't convince anyone who wants to believe the election was stolen, just like they won't convince anyone who wants to believe the election was spotlessly pure.
But for fair-minded people who are open to critical thinking, audits might provide useful information. Perhaps that information will be that evidence for fraud is scant. Do you have a problem with that?
I never believe anything is spotlessly pure. Do I think that about 99% of Dem pols and operatives are scoundrels who would step on their own mothers for a few extra bucks? Yes I do.
Nevertheless, I have not seen anything in the last seven months that would lead me to believe that anything sinister on a grand enough scale to throw a presidential election took place.
And considering it's Donald Trump who is the main character in this farce, I think I've got pretty good reason to doubt any massive cheating took place. Trump has claimed cheating every time he's lost.
Ardent Trump supporters simply cannot understand how disliked their hero was by a large percentage of the population and couldn't wait to vote him out of office.
He lost....that's all there is to it.
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888mouth
I'm still waiting for the Kracken.
:beer:
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@libertybele
Hell,the audits HELP them identify what they need to hide the most.
And NOTHING is going to change unless Trump is elected to be our next President. He is the ONLY one with the stones to open boxes and expose the corruption because he is NOT a career politician and they have nothing on him.
I get that. I understand what you're saying. Again -- UNLESS the GOP/RNC have systems in place to ensure a fair election you will never see another GOP president seated period. Also take into consideration that it is very likely that by then the SCOTUS will be packed with liberals, amnesty granted to millions (making it mathematically impossible for a GOP to be seated) and our electoral process changed.
Our Republic is crumbling and the GOP is pretty much dead.
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@libertybele
Hell,the audits HELP them identify what they need to hide the most.
And NOTHING is going to change unless Trump is elected to be our next President. He is the ONLY one with the stones to open boxes and expose the corruption because he is NOT a career politician and they have nothing on him.
I hate to have to tell you, but Tumpy don't matter a hill o beans without a party four-square behind him. Without that he will get nothing done again.
And Tumpy WITH a party four-square behind him don't matter a hill o beans unless he is practicing Conservatism, and particularly the Conservatism of the two factions that are always thrown under the bus - Libertarianism and fiscal conservatism.
True story.
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Nothing will happen wrt the sitting president.
In the end, we elect by way of electors certified by the states. That certification happened. The electors voted. Done deal.
There may be some criminal charges... No doubt precinct level workers or leaders will be the bag holders No one of rank will suffer, at least until the next election where they will be vulnerable to the will of the people.
But, in the revelation, we can hope for illegitimacy plaguing the current administration, stifling popular appeal. And it could grow to the point of unrest, and the current administration having to step down (which is not a good thing... Pelousy for pres, anyone?)
We can hope for state legislatures pushing hard for serious election reforms.
But it will not take the Liberals out of power on the left.
And it will not take the Moderates out of power on the right.
So while reforms would be desirable, the power conduits will remain untouched.
---------------------------------------
Roamer,
Predictably on the mark yet your task is thankless.
By his life attitudes and behaviors, Trump birthed Disciples who are w/Him forever.
History records their kind, among them David Koresh of Waco and Jim Jones of Jonestown
whose followers chose death for themselves and children rather than reject their Messiah.
A Wise Man would look forward, letting Trump go, as his days are long over.
Instead we get a daily barrage of rage and rants always reaching back to some slight,
real or usually imagined.
This is what Plain People both hear and see; yet they are emphatically not amused.
Most critically their reaction will be felt in the next election.
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A personal observation, probably don't mean nuthin', but...
Threads like this one are "GBR flypaper".
They attract all the usual ne'ertrump suspects, like roamer, goat, absalom, etc.
All the members who are on my permanent ignore list.
And they ALWAYS "wreck the thread".
Actually, I suppose I prefer this, because it keeps them from destroying other threads.
But... why do other members (who I like and respect) continue to fall for their baiting...?
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That is not the case, and you know it.
You mean people only have one religious belief? I disagree.
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A personal observation, probably don't mean nuthin', but...
Threads like this one are "GBR flypaper".
They attract all the usual ne'ertrump suspects, like roamer, goat, absalom, etc.
All the members who are on my permanent ignore list.
And they ALWAYS "wreck the thread".
Actually, I suppose I prefer this, because it keeps them from destroying other threads.
But... why do other members (who I like and respect) continue to fall for their baiting...?
It's their mission in life to prevent the republic from healing and rising again.
That's the only explanation for why they are so dishonest.
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I get that. I understand what you're saying. Again -- UNLESS the GOP/RNC have systems in place to ensure a fair election you will never see another GOP president seated period. Also take into consideration that it is very likely that by then the SCOTUS will be packed with liberals, amnesty granted to millions (making it mathematically impossible for a GOP to be seated) and our electoral process changed.
Our Republic is crumbling and the GOP is pretty much dead.
@libertybele
Hell,the only GOP presidents of my lifetime were Reagan and Trump. The rest were all surrender monkeys.
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You mean people only have one religious belief? I disagree.
Arguments over spiritual beliefs is verboten.
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It's their mission in life to prevent the republic from healing and rising again.
That's the only explanation for why they are so dishonest.
I am being forthright.
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A personal observation, probably don't mean nuthin', but...
Threads like this one are "GBR flypaper".
They attract all the usual ne'ertrump suspects, like roamer, goat, absalom, etc.
All the members who are on my permanent ignore list.
And they ALWAYS "wreck the thread".
Actually, I suppose I prefer this, because it keeps them from destroying other threads.
But... why do other members (who I like and respect) continue to fall for their baiting...?
-----------------------
Hmm.............so your personal observations, "prolly don't mean nuttin, but........"
In fact, they mean far less than nuttin!!! So a reflection from experience.
Long ago I studied, later lecturing as an Adjunct at Trinity Collage, Dublin.
House Rules in the Lecture Halls, which were strictly enforced, were that
all opinions were welcome, subject to the decorum of good manners.
The models for such behavior were the British and Irish Parliaments
(despite their volume level) where ideas dominated and at the end of
the session, ruled.
It's obvious that the only ideas you tolerate are those you agree w/in advance.
How enlightened and tolerant!!!
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(https://myrecipereviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/buttermilk-pie2.jpg)
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@roamer_1 has it right. There is no provision in the Constitution to call "mulligans" on an election; the EVs were certified and that's the end of it. There are mechanisms for Biden to be removed from office, but there is no mechanism to put Trump back in and that will not happen.
However we might get more than local criminal prosecutions and state level reforms. If it becomes clear that Trump won a fair count the Biden admin will be crippled and the D agenda will suffer, and I believe the mass of people would become more demanding of transparent, auditable election results.
I am not so sure about that last part. If anything, I suspect the Communists who stole the election will double down to keep power. Masks and gloves will come off, and last year's ugliness will just be a small hors d'oeuvre, a taste of thing to come.
The puppet will likely not finish his term, simply because those behind him will tire of his non compos mentis approach to government, and their lust for power will propel them to be more in the limelight--and in control.
As much as I would like to see this regime deposed, there is no Constitutional means of doing so, You have to go back to another document for that. So, we endure, and hopefully, the GOP will find its gonads and stand up to the illegitimate uses of usurped power. In the meantime, I'd like to see some serious and meaningful election reforms come from the State Legislatures. (The Federal Government is not Constitutionally authorized to take that over, and should stay out, with the exception of having the States follow their own duly enacted rules.
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Nothing will happen.
Not because there was anything at all legit about the election, because nothing was.
Nothing will happen because those who should do something lack the courage.
You are right, and it is a pity that those who could sort this out most peacefully have failed in that duty.
Despite the summer of riots, the hoopla over 1/6 indicates that the Dems are scared to incontinence that they will be found out and ordinarily peaceful people will decide to storm the Bastille, even as the Left's pet storm troopers continue to damage property and disrupt commerce in major cities. Hence, the hyperbole equating an event where a solitary protester was killed with events which were high body count acts of real terrorism, which devastated buildings and caused large numbers of casualties. They are already trying to browbeat the American people into submission, and likely to push for their disarmament out of fear they will face those same arms otherwise--even though that attempt to further infringe an enumerated Civil Right would likely be just the sort of thing which might precipitate violence and instigate action on the part of the people they fear.
And fear the people, they do. As ever, the incompetent hide behind bluster and rage, the smarter ones accusing their opponents of that which they, themselves, do.
It will be interesting to see how far down the Media will accompany the Communists ("Democrats") before they decide to bail, or if they will continue in the Ministry of Propaganda role.
But, in the end, the time for that action has passed. @roamer_1 is right, whether under duress, political pressure, or other influences, or out of ignorance of the fraud likely involved, the electors were certified by their respective States, The SCOTUS disappointingly failed to act on complaints that Constitutionally mandated rules were not followed (that the several States Legislatures should have been solely responsible for the rules of conduct for the elections), and no court ever has ruled on evidence of impropriety on the part of those States, no matter how blatant. Those summary dismissals, either out of cowardice, or because the judges were enamored of the apparent results, were the first line to fail, the SCOTUS, the second, and the Congress (and Pence) the third. Three strikes.
Our best hope is that the election will be shown to be a fraud, that those responsible will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and never hold office again, of any kind, That the rules will be tightened to eliminate fraud, and that there will be an end to devices which are subject to tampering, hacking, or outside interference.
We might wish for things to be set right, but like the folks who simply quit trying to hook up a pipe to bring Alberta Crude to the US Gulf Coast Refineries, some things are not going to be unbroken. Some things already can't be made right, and that list, and the accompanying enmity will grow for the next 3 1/2 years. How much depends on whether the GOP finds its spine, and whether the elected officials therein even give a damn.
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Arguments over spiritual beliefs is verboten.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, but I was following another book, called "Sarcasm, the Unknown Ideal", by Ayn Rand.
Lighten up, Francis, nobody was discussing any real religious beliefs. I noted long ago y'all don't have a religion board, and that's just fine.
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I am being forthright.
I'm just being right.
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You are right, and it is a pity that those who could sort this out most peacefully have failed in that duty.
Despite the summer of riots, the hoopla over 1/6 indicates that the Dems are scared to incontinence that they will be found out and ordinarily peaceful people will decide to storm the Bastille, even as the Left's pet storm troopers continue to damage property and disrupt commerce in major cities. Hence, the hyperbole equating an event where a solitary protester was killed with events which were high body count acts of real terrorism, which devastated buildings and caused large numbers of casualties. They are already trying to browbeat the American people into submission, and likely to push for their disarmament out of fear they will face those same arms otherwise--even though that attempt to further infringe an enumerated Civil Right would likely be just the sort of thing which might precipitate violence and instigate action on the part of the people they fear.
And fear the people, they do. As ever, the incompetent hide behind bluster and rage, the smarter ones accusing their opponents of that which they, themselves, do.
It will be interesting to see how far down the Media will accompany the Communists ("Democrats") before they decide to bail, or if they will continue in the Ministry of Propaganda role.
But, in the end, the time for that action has passed. @roamer_1 is right, whether under duress, political pressure, or other influences, or out of ignorance of the fraud likely involved, the electors were certified by their respective States, The SCOTUS disappointingly failed to act on complaints that Constitutionally mandated rules were not followed (that the several States Legislatures should have been solely responsible for the rules of conduct for the elections), and no court ever has ruled on evidence of impropriety on the part of those States, no matter how blatant. Those summary dismissals, either out of cowardice, or because the judges were enamored of the apparent results, were the first line to fail, the SCOTUS, the second, and the Congress (and Pence) the third. Three strikes.
Our best hope is that the election will be shown to be a fraud, that those responsible will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and never hold office again, of any kind, That the rules will be tightened to eliminate fraud, and that there will be an end to devices which are subject to tampering, hacking, or outside interference.
We might wish for things to be set right, but like the folks who simply quit trying to hook up a pipe to bring Alberta Crude to the US Gulf Coast Refineries, some things are not going to be unbroken. Some things already can't be made right, and that list, and the accompanying enmity will grow for the next 3 1/2 years. How much depends on whether the GOP finds its spine, and whether the elected officials therein even give a damn.
While certainly the Rodents are terrified of the people, they're doing everything ban the private ownership of weapons that can serve the purpose the Founders intended them to serve in the Second Amendment, but that isn't the reason they're hyping that ridiculous show they themselves staged on Jan 6.
First off, they staged that show to shut down any attempts to challenge the false electors to complete their steal of the election.
Second, they admire Hitler's political skill and yet they're not willing to burn down the Capitol...yet. So the whole game of Political Prisoners and fake panic over their own staged intrusion is a Mini-Me replica of the Reichstag Fire, which was used to great effect by their hero Hitler to ban the other socialist party, the Communists and secure political supremacy for the National Socialists, who were just like the communists but didn't speak Russian. The Rodents are trying to find a way to destroy the GOP.
That's all this is about. It's really simple.
And, of course, no. Electors selected by fraudulent means are still fraudulent even if the legislature pretends they're not. There's this weird thing about how the state election LAWS are signed into existence by the governor's signature. And..oh, by the way, there's also that weird thing about how states are supposed to have REPUBLICAN governments, not authoritarian bodies that can set aside laws as convenient to the ruling classes.
But nice try in covering up the steal, but, still a fail.
Again.
You do realize repeating falsehoods don't make them real if you repeat them often, right?
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I'm just being right.
No, you are not.
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Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, but I was following another book, called "Sarcasm, the Unknown Ideal", by Ayn Rand.
Lighten up, Francis, nobody was discussing any real religious beliefs. I noted long ago y'all don't have a religion board, and that's just fine.
We're copacetic.... happy77
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The audits have no legal standing to overturn the 2020 election results. The results, truthful or not, will be used to justify "restoring" Trump to office by August.
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The audits have no legal standing to overturn the 2020 election results. The results, truthful or not, will be used to justify "restoring" Trump to office by August.
@DefiantMassRINO
It doesn't matter what happens,nothing is going to change the results of the last election. The DNC leadership can go on Prime Time TV and admit they stole the election,and nothing will change.
People can give all sorts of legalistic/Constitutional answers,but it will make no difference whatsoever.
In order for Biden and the DNC leadership and accomplices to go to prison for the most massive fraud in US history,our leadership,Dim,and Alleged Republicans would have to admit our system is failed and corrupt,leaving us in a state of anarchy.
Anarchy may look cool in some movies,but NOBODY sane and over 12 years old wants to see it take over. NOBODY.
Yes,that is EXACTLY the position the DNC leadership and their masters put us all in,AND THEY DID IT DELIBERATELY.
I am sure there MUST be some obscure felony charges that can be brought against the Dim leadership and their international banking masters,but I have no idea what they could be,or who would have the "horsepower" to get THAT particular "ball" rolling.
Other than Trump,that is. Not even sure HE would want to open THAT can of worms because once that snowball starting rolling down the hill there would be no stopping it,and there would be consequences I for one don't completely understand.
What I DO understand is that sometimes something can be done with the right INTENTIONS,but end up getting the wrong result.
Whoever would be in charge of that government would NOT be in charge of the media or of Steve and Susie Sixpack.
Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.
Unintended Consequences,and all dat.
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The audits have no legal standing to overturn the 2020 election results.
I do believe we'd been making that point this whole thread, but thanks for the endorsement.
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(https://myrecipereviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/buttermilk-pie2.jpg)
NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!
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NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!
I really like buttermilk pie, but haven't had in in decades.
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I really like buttermilk pie, but haven't had in in decades.
I wondered what that was. Looks a bit like the lemon pies my grandmother used to make.
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No, you are not.
Yes, I am.
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The audits have no legal standing to overturn the 2020 election results. The results, truthful or not, will be used to justify "restoring" Trump to office by August.
uh...what?
Are you saying that the honest results of the audit, proving the electors of AZ were as fraudulent as Obama's birth certificate, will be used by the Americans to ummm...demand Trump's re-instatement?
We both agree there's no mechanism for that.
What an honest expose of the elections will do is inform people of what they already know, that the election was rigged, and that they need to get their asses out and vote for not-Rodents and hopefully not-RINOs on every election for the rest of their lives, starting in 2021.
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Audits go Trump's way,
N O T H I N G
will happen.
Who will unseat Biden/Harris?
The Democrat controlled House - NO!
The Democrat controlled Senate - NO!
The corrupt SCOTUS - HELL NO!!!!
The corrupt media - NO WAY!!!!
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Audits go Trump's way,
N O T H I N G
will happen.
Who will unseat Biden/Harris?
The Democrat controlled House - NO!
The Democrat controlled Senate - NO!
The corrupt SCOTUS - HELL NO!!!!
The corrupt media - NO WAY!!!!
You and I operate under different definitions of "Nothing."
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While certainly the Rodents are terrified of the people, they're doing everything ban the private ownership of weapons that can serve the purpose the Founders intended them to serve in the Second Amendment, but that isn't the reason they're hyping that ridiculous show they themselves staged on Jan 6.
First off, they staged that show to shut down any attempts to challenge the false electors to complete their steal of the election.
Second, they admire Hitler's political skill and yet they're not willing to burn down the Capitol...yet. So the whole game of Political Prisoners and fake panic over their own staged intrusion is a Mini-Me replica of the Reichstag Fire, which was used to great effect by their hero Hitler to ban the other socialist party, the Communists and secure political supremacy for the National Socialists, who were just like the communists but didn't speak Russian. The Rodents are trying to find a way to destroy the GOP.
That's all this is about. It's really simple.
And, of course, no. Electors selected by fraudulent means are still fraudulent even if the legislature pretends they're not. There's this weird thing about how the state election LAWS are signed into existence by the governor's signature. And..oh, by the way, there's also that weird thing about how states are supposed to have REPUBLICAN governments, not authoritarian bodies that can set aside laws as convenient to the ruling classes.
But nice try in covering up the steal, but, still a fail.
Again.
You do realize repeating falsehoods don't make them real if you repeat them often, right?
Before you gibber about me being wrong, kindly point me to the paragraph, article, or clause of the US Constitution that will undo the election in the event fraud is proven.
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What an honest expose of the elections will do is inform people of what they already know, that the election was rigged, and that they need to get their asses out and vote for not-Rodents and hopefully not-RINOs on every election for the rest of their lives, starting in 2021.
It can do a lot more than that.
It can put criminals in jail.
52 U.S. Code § 20511 - Criminal penalties
U.S. Code
A person, including an election official, who in any election for Federal office—
(1)knowingly and willfully intimidates, threatens, or coerces, or attempts to intimidate, threaten, or coerce, any person for—
(A)registering to vote, or voting, or attempting to register or vote;
(B)urging or aiding any person to register to vote, to vote, or to attempt to register or vote; or
(C)exercising any right under this chapter; or
(2)knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by—
(A)the procurement or submission of voter registration applications that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held; or
(B)the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held,
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/20511
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Before you gibber about me being wrong, kindly point me to the paragraph, article, or clause of the US Constitution that will undo the election in the event fraud is proven.
There is no clause.
But the Constitution was written by representatives of states to represent their constituents the people, and the states and people of course can undo any election if they so desire, with the right amount of support.
One has to understand the Constitution is never the last resort. The people who made it are.
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uh...what?
Are you saying that the honest results of the audit, proving the electors of AZ were as fraudulent as Obama's birth certificate, will be used by the Americans to ummm...demand Trump's re-instatement?
We both agree there's no mechanism for that.
What an honest expose of the elections will do is inform people of what they already know, that the election was rigged, and that they need to get their asses out and vote for not-Rodents and hopefully not-RINOs on every election for the rest of their lives, starting in 2021.
If the election was lost to fraud, as so many of us are certain, a significant part of that fraud was in the counting and tabulation of ballots, (not just the generation thereof). While I have little doubt that old fashioned ballot box stuffing through mail-in ballots, harvesting, and drop box setups was done, that alone was just not enough.
What bleep good is getting out and voting going to do, we have already seen the mechanism by which that is overturned: stop the count, change the algorithm, and start up again--only NEXT time it will be done seamlessly, without having to adjust the numbers as a surprise, and done on the fly. They were surprised by the record number of votes for Trump, well beyond what they had anticipated (it was a new record for an incumbent POTUS), so they called a time out to adjust the algorithm.
Next time, they'll be ready.
The only way to stop this is to stop their methodology in its tracks. Do not use those machines, or anything connected to the internet to count or tabulate votes, even remotely and chain of custody on everything.
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But nice try in covering up the steal, but, still a fail.
Before you gibber about me being wrong, kindly point me to the paragraph, article, or clause of the US Constitution that will undo the election in the event fraud is proven.
Also please point out the specific statement made by @Smokin Joe that advocates covering anything up. Why do you make a habit of intentionally mischaracterizing people's positions and statements @Sled Dog?.
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Also please point out the specific statement made by @Smokin Joe that advocates covering anything up. Why do you make a habit of intentionally mischaracterizing people's positions and statements @Sled Dog?.
Straw men are easier to attack than real people.
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Also please point out the specific statement made by @Smokin Joe that advocates covering anything up. Why do you make a habit of intentionally mischaracterizing people's positions and statements @Sled Dog?.
That's where the 'ignore' feature comes in handy.
-
That's where the 'ignore' feature comes in handy.
Yep, and I use it. But I still see that ignored person quoted by others, and sometimes the dishonest trolling bullshit I see really needs a response.
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Why do you make a habit of intentionally mischaracterizing people's positions and statements @Sled Dog?.
I have a theory.
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If the election was lost to fraud, as so many of us are certain, a significant part of that fraud was in the counting and tabulation of ballots, (not just the generation thereof). While I have little doubt that old fashioned ballot box stuffing through mail-in ballots, harvesting, and drop box setups was done, that alone was just not enough.
What bleep good is getting out and voting going to do, we have already seen the mechanism by which that is overturned: stop the count, change the algorithm, and start up again--only NEXT time it will be done seamlessly, without having to adjust the numbers as a surprise, and done on the fly. They were surprised by the record number of votes for Trump, well beyond what they had anticipated (it was a new record for an incumbent POTUS), so they called a time out to adjust the algorithm.
Next time, they'll be ready.
The only way to stop this is to stop their methodology in its tracks. Do not use those machines, or anything connected to the internet to count or tabulate votes, even remotely and chain of custody on everything.
No, that is not the only way.
Use the audits to prove fraud occurred and incarcerate the people who executed the fraud to the fullest extent of the law. Dozens or hundreds of people arrested under threat of prosecution should with some coercion reveal the higher ups who organized the fraud operation, not just the little people.
Until people are sent to prison, fraud will continue for sure.
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No, that is not the only way.
Use the audits to prove fraud occurred and incarcerate the people who executed the fraud to the fullest extent of the law. Dozens or hundreds of people arrested under threat of prosecution should with some coercion reveal the higher ups who organized the fraud operation, not just the little people.
Until people are sent to prison, fraud will continue for sure.
Fraud will continue, either way, but I'd love to see prosecutions.
However, the States in question haven't generally been overly enthusiastic about investigation, much less holding people to account.
Removing the means will at least make the fraud more difficult. Voter ID, in person voting, no more denial of meaningful supervision by election judges, etc. And sticking to the rules made by the legislature (Put some teeth in the law!)
It isn't over, and there is ever cause for hope.
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Yep, and I use it. But I still see that ignored person quoted by others, and sometimes the dishonest trolling bullshit I see really needs a response.
For me, I try to refrain from responding as it only encourages their trolling and I don't want to deal with the aggravation. :shrug:
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Audits go Trump's way,
N O T H I N G
will happen.
Who will unseat Biden/Harris?
The Democrat controlled House - NO!
The Democrat controlled Senate - NO!
The corrupt SCOTUS - HELL NO!!!!
The corrupt media - NO WAY!!!!
There is no official action the government can take to instate Trump into his proper place. Even if the Rodents would be willing to impeach their own meat puppet, that just means Kamel's Butt would move in, and if they impeached the both, that would mean Nancy would be Prez. There's no mechanism for this.
And the media COULD make an awful lot of noise about the stolen election. My huskies will stop chasing cats before that happens.
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Before you gibber about me being wrong, kindly point me to the paragraph, article, or clause of the US Constitution that will undo the election in the event fraud is proven.
Actually, I speakum prefectly plane Engrish.
And you really need to learn how to read, since NOT ONCE have I EVER said there's any Constitutional way of removing the Meat Puppet.
And the fraud HAS been proven. Article I, Section 9 has been violated and the process approved by the state legislatures to select the electors was violated.
-
It can do a lot more than that.
It can put criminals in jail.
52 U.S. Code § 20511 - Criminal penalties
U.S. Code
A person, including an election official, who in any election for Federal office—
(1)knowingly and willfully intimidates, threatens, or coerces, or attempts to intimidate, threaten, or coerce, any person for—
(A)registering to vote, or voting, or attempting to register or vote;
(B)urging or aiding any person to register to vote, to vote, or to attempt to register or vote; or
(C)exercising any right under this chapter; or
(2)knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by—
(A)the procurement or submission of voter registration applications that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held; or
(B)the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held,
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/20511
You know, I really appreciate your faith in the legal system of the United States.
Really, I do.
But I believe we can both agree that nobody is going to prison over this unless we succeed in draining the swamp.
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No, that is not the only way.
Use the audits to prove fraud occurred and incarcerate the people who executed the fraud to the fullest extent of the law. Dozens or hundreds of people arrested under threat of prosecution should with some coercion reveal the higher ups who organized the fraud operation, not just the little people.
Until people are sent to prison, fraud will continue for sure.
That can't happen.
I don't mean the law doesn't permit it, but the organs of the State are under the control of the enemies of the people, and they are the ones that stole the election. So none of the guilty parties are going to the Gray Bar Hilton.
The only thing these audits are useful for, since all the normal people already KNOW the election was stolen, is to provide evidence for the gullible fools who don't want to believe because they have Principles (TM) or something equally stupid, like chrysophobia.
So first, get the audit evidence to back up the common knowledge, and then use it to chip away at the Fools. And by chip away I mean with a little rock collector's hammer since the major media are willing accomplices in the Big Lie and will be doing everything they can to keep the stupid people who are unwilling to accept AND ADMIT that the election was stolen from changing their tiny little minds.
What CAN be done with the extra proof the audits will provide is to empower a movement to deny the Rodents the tools of their fraud. When the Lesser Gullibles accept that Orange Man wasn't Bad, they'll want more secure elections and start listening to their betters about what's needed to be done for more secure elections.
But that's only after the Lesser Gullibles stop making Gulled Excuses for the Rodents and their Big Lie.
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That can't happen.
I don't mean the law doesn't permit it, but the organs of the State are under the control of the enemies of the people, and they are the ones that stole the election. So none of the guilty parties are going to the Gray Bar Hilton.
The only thing these audits are useful for, since all the normal people already KNOW the election was stolen, is to provide evidence for the gullible fools who don't want to believe because they have Principles (TM) or something equally stupid, like chrysophobia.
So first, get the audit evidence to back up the common knowledge, and then use it to chip away at the Fools. And by chip away I mean with a little rock collector's hammer since the major media are willing accomplices in the Big Lie and will be doing everything they can to keep the stupid people who are unwilling to accept AND ADMIT that the election was stolen from changing their tiny little minds.
What CAN be done with the extra proof the audits will provide is to empower a movement to deny the Rodents the tools of their fraud. When the Lesser Gullibles accept that Orange Man wasn't Bad, they'll want more secure elections and start listening to their betters about what's needed to be done for more secure elections.
But that's only after the Lesser Gullibles stop making Gulled Excuses for the Rodents and their Big Lie.
Maybe where you live, but here in Texas those fraudsters are being pursued vigorously by our AG, especially for mail in ballot fraud. In fact, the number of current prosecutions equals the total number since 2005.
Texas election fraud prosecutions at "all-time high"
DATED: APRIL 9, 2021 BY STAFF
The number of active election fraud cases in Texas is at an "all-time high." That's according to Jonathan White, Chief of the election fraud division at the Texas Attorney General's office, quoted in The Texan.
White was giving his perspective in front of a Texas House Elections Committee while legislators consider a new law to strengthen penalties for voter fraud, add protections for poll watchers, and give more priority to election fraud claims in Texas courts.
White testified that the current number of active prosecutions for voter fraud (510) is about the same as the total number of prosecutions since 2005 (534), according to The Texan.
Eighty percent (80%) of the pending election fraud cases reportedly involve alleged mail ballot fraud.
Supporters of the proposed Texas election reform bill say reform is necessary to restore integrity and confidence in the outcome of local and national elections, says The Texan.
Opponents of the bill contended that the new criminal statutes and penalties would deter election volunteers, and that the proposal is conducive to racial discrimination.
https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/04/texas-election-fraud-prosecutions-at-all-time-high/
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Maybe where you live, but here in Texas those fraudsters are being pursued vigorously by our AG, especially for mail in ballot fraud. In fact, the number of current prosecutions equals the total number since 2005.
Texas election fraud prosecutions at "all-time high"
DATED: APRIL 9, 2021 BY STAFF
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/Smileys/default/thumbs-up01b.png
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/Smileys/default/thumbs-up01b.png
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/Smileys/default/thumbs-up01b.png TEXAS!
BTW,can anyone explain to me why all I get is the link when I drop and drag it to the posting section,instead of the actual "Thumbs up"image?
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Maybe where you live, but here in Texas those fraudsters are being pursued vigorously by our AG, especially for mail in ballot fraud. In fact, the number of current prosecutions equals the total number since 2005.
Texas election fraud prosecutions at "all-time high"
DATED: APRIL 9, 2021 BY STAFF
The number of active election fraud cases in Texas is at an "all-time high." That's according to Jonathan White, Chief of the election fraud division at the Texas Attorney General's office, quoted in The Texan.
White was giving his perspective in front of a Texas House Elections Committee while legislators consider a new law to strengthen penalties for voter fraud, add protections for poll watchers, and give more priority to election fraud claims in Texas courts.
White testified that the current number of active prosecutions for voter fraud (510) is about the same as the total number of prosecutions since 2005 (534), according to The Texan.
Eighty percent (80%) of the pending election fraud cases reportedly involve alleged mail ballot fraud.
Supporters of the proposed Texas election reform bill say reform is necessary to restore integrity and confidence in the outcome of local and national elections, says The Texan.
Opponents of the bill contended that the new criminal statutes and penalties would deter election volunteers, and that the proposal is conducive to racial discrimination.
https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/04/texas-election-fraud-prosecutions-at-all-time-high/
I live in a truly red state. And by red state I mean I don't like using the propaganda colors assigned by the fascist media to paint the American states as "reds" and their communist states as "not-Reds", something they've been doing since color TV made the electoral map on Election Nights easy to see.
California is one of the reddest states around, along with Oregone (it's really gone) and Washington. They've been stealing elections with impunity for at least the three decades I've lived here with NEVER a prosecution. Does Maxine Water REALLY get 75% of the vote every year? Of course not. When Jane Harmon "won" to a challenger by 400 votes, were thousands of those ballots actually cast by illegal aliens and zombies? Of course there were. When B1 Bob Dornan "lost" his Orange County congressional seat to a Mexican, was that an honest election? No, of course not.
So, I'm happy for Texas, it's good to see someone fighting the fight that needs to be won, but what I was meaning to imply was that nothing was going to happen at the federal level.
Given the level of election fraud happening in key states across the country, the Department of Justice, if it cared for the law, would have launched a task force to investigate and prosecute. What do we get, instead? We get a commission appointed by President Trump claiming that they can't find any fraud, and we get RINOs like Sessions and Barr totally ignoring the very real problem.
That's what I meant.
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I live in a truly red state. And by red state I mean I don't like using the propaganda colors assigned by the fascist media to paint the American states as "reds" and their communist states as "not-Reds", something they've been doing since color TV made the electoral map on Election Nights easy to see.
California is one of the reddest states around, along with Oregone (it's really gone) and Washington. They've been stealing elections with impunity for at least the three decades I've lived here with NEVER a prosecution. Does Maxine Water REALLY get 75% of the vote every year? Of course not. When Jane Harmon "won" to a challenger by 400 votes, were thousands of those ballots actually cast by illegal aliens and zombies? Of course there were. When B1 Bob Dornan "lost" his Orange County congressional seat to a Mexican, was that an honest election? No, of course not.
So, I'm happy for Texas, it's good to see someone fighting the fight that needs to be won, but what I was meaning to imply was that nothing was going to happen at the federal level.
Given the level of election fraud happening in key states across the country, the Department of Justice, if it cared for the law, would have launched a task force to investigate and prosecute. What do we get, instead? We get a commission appointed by President Trump claiming that they can't find any fraud, and we get RINOs like Sessions and Barr totally ignoring the very real problem.
That's what I meant.
Got it.
States are the bulwark to prevent election fraud, not the feds.
Barr and the Supreme Court proved that last year when they turned their backs on election fraud questions.
Guess your red state will always remain a red state until citizens march on the state capitol.
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Actually, I speakum prefectly plane Engrish.
And you really need to learn how to read, since NOT ONCE have I EVER said there's any Constitutional way of removing the Meat Puppet.
And the fraud HAS been proven. Article I, Section 9 has been violated and the process approved by the state legislatures to select the electors was violated.
I have been thoroughly satisfied that there was massive fraud from election night onwards. It should never have been close. Trump got 81.9% of the vote in my county. No way non compos mentis took that vote legally overall, not even with cackles in the wings. Period.
That the Constitution was violated in the crafting of election rules by non-legislative actors is sufficient for me to believe that the votes in those jurisdictions should be void. That's just the tip of the iceberg, though, and there is a lot more that needs to be excavated and investigated:
Ballot (drop) box stuffing.
Vote buying
Chain of custody
Actual ballots
Software
Hardware
Serious oversight issues.
Possibility of foreign and domestic intervention via internet.
Algorithms and vote shifts.
Ballots counted multiple times..
The dead vote.
Instances of more votes than voters eligible in a precinct, district, or county
people denied voting because they "had already voted"
"system updates" before and during the vote count (algorithm changes)
Just about every methodology heretofore known was utilized to some degree, and a few novel ideas as well.
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This says end of June, then a report.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/elected-officials-from-across-country-tour-maricopa-county-election-audit
Now they say in August. https://www.theepochtimes.com/maricopa-county-audit-report-expected-in-august_3864225.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=CFP
Am getting concerned there will be some hanky-panky behind the scenes.
@roamer_1
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Now they say in August. https://www.theepochtimes.com/maricopa-county-audit-report-expected-in-august_3864225.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=CFP
Am getting concerned there will be some hanky-panky behind the scenes.
@roamer_1
Dunno. it's a couple more weeks. Math is hard. happy77
All we can do is wait and see.
@IsailedawayfromFR
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Now they say in August. https://www.theepochtimes.com/maricopa-county-audit-report-expected-in-august_3864225.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=CFP
Am getting concerned there will be some hanky-panky behind the scenes.
@roamer_1
Beginning to sound like the Durham Report.
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Beginning to sound like the Durham Report.
Agreed, but OTOH if I were running the AZ audit I would want to take the time necessary to get it right, all t's crossed and i's dotted, before I released the results. The last thing we need is a sloppy report of sloppy work. Anything that can be characterized as an error will be used to impugn the audit and to pressure other states to cancel any thoughts of their own audits.
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Agreed, but OTOH if I were running the AZ audit I would want to take the time necessary to get it right, all t's crossed and i's dotted, before I released the results. The last thing we need is a sloppy report of sloppy work. Anything that can be characterized as an error will be used to impugn the audit and to pressure other states to cancel any thoughts of their own audits.
That's right, and if that is the case, a couple more weeks ain't no never mind.
HOWEVER, if it fizzles into nothingness, like all the rest, well chalk it up to that much more for the waggin tongues.
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Also please point out the specific statement made by @Smokin Joe that advocates covering anything up. Why do you make a habit of intentionally mischaracterizing people's positions and statements @Sled Dog?.
Cyber Note: This post contained so many personal attacks that I just cleared it all out. Easier than just banning the Member outright, this time.
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Got it.
States are the bulwark to prevent election fraud, not the feds.
Barr and the Supreme Court proved that last year when they turned their backs on election fraud questions.
Guess your red state will always remain a red state until citizens march on the state capitol.
You mean "the red state you live in", not "your red state". I don't recall owning any states, personally, and I certainly would not claim California.
What I do know is that when so-called conservative people march in California, they march to the borders because they're too much of the wuss to stand and fight.
That's probably because the Never Trumping RINO strain is strong in this hole and existed long before Trump was elected and re-elected.
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Agreed, but OTOH if I were running the AZ audit I would want to take the time necessary to get it right, all t's crossed and i's dotted, before I released the results. The last thing we need is a sloppy report of sloppy work. Anything that can be characterized as an error will be used to impugn the audit and to pressure other states to cancel any thoughts of their own audits.
Yes, the Rodents are famous for counting and recounting and counting again and then counting some more until they get the answer they want.
Then they insist the recount is perfect, it's over, and anyone who then questions the results are cheaters.
And you're playing right into their hands, demanding "perfection", because by reviewing and reviewing and trimming and snipping and snipping and trimming, the audit will be deformed into what the fraudulent election already was, a fraud.
Should we ask you what your real goals are, or just take that as a given?
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Going back to the question that started this thread,I have gone back and forth in my own mind over this,and have concluded that IF Trump does run,he is likely to win the vote,but the Dims will pull another scam and steal the election.
Which I think,and even hope,will lead to VERY bad things happening to some VERY deserving people.
Unfortunately,as always,there will be a great number of innocents hurt or killed when and if this happens.
It is MY opinion that any leftist political office holders who are survivors should be hanged in public and their bodies left to rot in the breeze.
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Yes, the Rodents are famous for counting and recounting and counting again and then counting some more until they get the answer they want.
Then they insist the recount is perfect, it's over, and anyone who then questions the results are cheaters.
And you're playing right into their hands, demanding "perfection", because by reviewing and reviewing and trimming and snipping and snipping and trimming, the audit will be deformed into what the fraudulent election already was, a fraud.
Should we ask you what your real goals are, or just take that as a given?
Failure for that report to check out, cross check, and be 100% correct in even the smallest way will be all the toehold the Rats need to discredit the entire thing. It has to be rock solid, and bullet proof. Settling for anything less would indeed be playing into the hands of the Rat b@st@rds who have perpetrated the fraud.
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@Sled Dog you are way off base, AGAIN, insinuating that @HoustonSam has any motive other than the Conservative Cause.
Personally, I'm getting tired of you putting words in Briefer's post that aren't there. Chill, dude.
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Going back to the question that started this thread,I have gone back and forth in my own mind over this,and have concluded that IF Trump does run,he is likely to win the vote,but the Dims will pull another scam and steal the election.
Which I think,and even hope,will lead to VERY bad things happening to some VERY deserving people.
Unfortunately,as always,there will be a great number of innocents hurt or killed when and if this happens.
It is MY opinion that any leftist political office holders who are survivors should be hanged in public and their bodies left to rot in the breeze.
The Rodents are going to do everything they can to steal the next election anyway.
It's what they do since they know they can't actually win elections any more.
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Failure for that report to check out, cross check, and be 100% correct in even the smallest way will be all the toehold the Rats need to discredit the entire thing. It has to be rock solid, and bullet proof. Settling for anything less would indeed be playing into the hands of the Rat b@st@rds who have perpetrated the fraud.
Yeah.
Sure.
Whatever.
Cheaters gonna cheat. It's what Rodents and RINOs and Never Trumper Principled Conservative (TM) Chrysophobes all want, anything it takes to stop the Americans from regaining control of their country.
Since the Rodents and the RINOs and the Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) terrorists are going to lie anyway, there's no point in attempting to the impossible and achieving "perfection", since it's not only impossible, it's friggin' pointless. Remember, the Rodents and RINOs and Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) a-holes are ALWAYS going to lie.
Don't do the Rodents and RINOs and the Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) a-holes any favors. Stop making the perfect the enemy of the good enough.
If you set out to borrow trouble, you will always get the loan.
Oh, and why are you trying to help the Rodents and RINOs and Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) a-holes?
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@Sled Dog you are way off base, AGAIN, insinuating that @HoustonSam has any motive other than the Conservative Cause.
Personally, I'm getting tired of you putting words in Briefer's post that aren't there. Chill, dude.
You should pay more attention to the words they are putting into my posts, pal.
All I know is that someone waiting for a "perfect" audit is playing defense for the Rodents, whether they can figure that out or not.
Examine the post where I described how the Rodents run their "recount" process.
Try answering that post instead of playing chekist games.
And, as a word of advice, if you're feeling a little fatigued, get some rest. Go out, run a few miles, hydrate properly, don't forget to warm-up and stretch, then, you know, early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and able to see the harm the Rodents, the RINOs and the Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) people are doing to my country.
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@Sled Dog I have all the patience in the world, but YOU, my Friend are wearing thin. It is not my exercise routine that you should be concerned about.
Signed:
Your Loving 'Never'
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You should pay more attention to the words they are putting into my posts, pal.
All I know is that someone waiting for a "perfect" audit is playing defense for the Rodents, whether they can figure that out or not.
Examine the post where I described how the Rodents run their "recount" process.
Try answering that post instead of playing chekist games.
And, as a word of advice, if you're feeling a little fatigued, get some rest. Go out, run a few miles, hydrate properly, don't forget to warm-up and stretch, then, you know, early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and able to see the harm the Rodents, the RINOs and the Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) people are doing to my country.
@Sled Dog - corbe and HoustonSam are two of the nicest, most rational people here. Let's please keep the conversation friendly and not impugn other forum member's motives, intelligence, or integrity.
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@corbe @Sled Dog
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9076bf2996056ca8954ac1c49ebacce0febb9380c910a04f01344289f430e0c9.jpg)
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Yeah.
Sure.
Whatever.
Cheaters gonna cheat. It's what Rodents and RINOs and Never Trumper Principled Conservative (TM) Chrysophobes all want, anything it takes to stop the Americans from regaining control of their country.
Since the Rodents and the RINOs and the Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) terrorists are going to lie anyway, there's no point in attempting to the impossible and achieving "perfection", since it's not only impossible, it's friggin' pointless. Remember, the Rodents and RINOs and Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) a-holes are ALWAYS going to lie.
Don't do the Rodents and RINOs and the Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) a-holes any favors. Stop making the perfect the enemy of the good enough.
If you set out to borrow trouble, you will always get the loan.
Oh, and why are you trying to help the Rodents and RINOs and Never Trumping Principled Conservative (TM) a-holes?
That did it, troll. Where do you get that from ANY of the 37,000+ posts I have made?
Quit with the strawmen, quit LYING about posters here, or take a hike.
I'd take a principled Conservative over someone who tosses about baseless bullshit, any day of the week.
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888mouth
I've already been warned. I don't know who this Mod7 is but I'll take her/his advice and go to to bed with my GF, against Dr.'s orders.
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@Sled Dog - corbe and HoustonSam are two of the nicest, most rational people here. Let's please keep the conversation friendly and not impugn other forum member's motives, intelligence, or integrity.
If @HoustonSam was trying to be nice, he would apologize for claiming I said things I clearly have absolutely not said.
If @corbe was trying to be nice, he would butt out until he carefully read the significant posts.
Neither has done what nice and rational people would take the effort to do.
I'm still waiting for direction to the posts I'm alleged to have made affirming that Trump could be "re-instated". Not only have I never ever said any such thing, I pointed out the obvious fact that there is nothing in the Constitution that would even permit that, even if the Senile Meat Puppet was removed from office.
So they're playing some kind of BS tag-team strawman argument to bolster their own insecurities, and trying to do so on the wrong man.
You have your discussion with them. They are the ones in the wrong.
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If @HoustonSam was trying to be nice, he would apologize for claiming I said things I clearly have absolutely not said.
I'm not trying to be nice.
Exactly what words have I put in your mouth @Sled Dog and where? I want a specific reference to a specific post.
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If @HoustonSam was trying to be nice, he would apologize for claiming I said things I clearly have absolutely not said.
If @corbe was trying to be nice, he would butt out until he carefully read the significant posts.
Neither has done what nice and rational people would take the effort to do.
I'm still waiting for direction to the posts I'm alleged to have made affirming that Trump could be "re-instated". Not only have I never ever said any such thing, I pointed out the obvious fact that there is nothing in the Constitution that would even permit that, even if the Senile Meat Puppet was removed from office.
So they're playing some kind of BS tag-team strawman argument to bolster their own insecurities, and trying to do so on the wrong man.
You have your discussion with them. They are the ones in the wrong.
Ok, well it sounds like most everyone, including you, is in agreement that there's no constitutional avenue for Trump to be reinstated. Since we've settled that, let's take a deep breath and move on to other topics.
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Ok, well it sounds like most everyone, including you, is in agreement that there's no constitutional avenue for Trump to be reinstated. Since we've settled that, let's take a deep breath and move on to other topics.
Good point! Since this thread has drifted so far away from the Original Topic, it's hopeless so I'm locking it. Let's all go find somewhere else to play.