The Briefing Room
General Category => Sports/Entertainment/MSM/Social Media => Shooting Sports => Topic started by: NewEnglandConservatarian on September 23, 2020, 09:09:57 pm
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I'm interested in buying a (legal of course) handgun, mainly as a contingency plan for any BS civil war adjacent activity that could arise between election day and inauguration day lol. Stipulations:
-Basic, easy to operate
-Capacity of 10 or less (state gun control laws)
-Affordable/easy to find
-Affordable/easy to find ammo
-Not girly lol
I'm not looking to break the bank here or basically almost ever use it other than practice and worst case societal collapse scenarios. Any advice or where to get affordable and maybe even gently used handguns that fit the above parameters? Under like 150 bucks or so would be great. Any good websites or online stores for this?
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Will your liberal G/F approve of you buying a gun?
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I don't think your $150 threshold is realistic.
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For good used handguns, LEO Trade-ins is a good way to go. I have purchased several this way.
Aim Surplus is one outfit I have purchased from. : https://aimsurplus.com/firearm/handgun/ (https://aimsurplus.com/firearm/handgun/)
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Lol haven't brought it up. We don't live together though
Will your liberal G/F approve of you buying a gun?
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Yeah I could go higher if need be, I'm just stingy
I don't think your $150 threshold is realistic.
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Any suggestions anyone on plentiful and affordable ammo?
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You'll need to double that $150. Go to some gun shows and hit the pawn shops. You first need to educate yourself by shopping around to get a feel for prices. The last 2 surplus pistols I bought at gun shows for $90 ea are now going for $400 and more. Once you have a feel for the going rates, then you will be ready to make your purchase.
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Any suggestions anyone on plentiful and affordable ammo?
It currently doesn't exist. Go to http://www.gunbot.net/ (http://www.gunbot.net/) and go to many of the linked ammo suppliers to see prices and availability.
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Expect 300-500 would be a more reasonable number.
If you are inexperienced, might I suggest a revolver, somewhere in the .38 to .357 range? A .38 is nice to learn on... no kick to speak of. Nice for learning the fundamentals. Now, that would be a pop-gun up in here. But you start where you start. I began, like most folks, on a .22 rifle, a long time ago.
And practice. Find someone who knows to teach you (hunters, cops are good for this), join a range, and run a butt-ton of lead out its nose. You've got a lot of catching up to do.
Where you want to be, IMHO, eventually, is a .40-.45 semi-auto, though a 357 magnum is no slouch. Under-sung these days, but that's a ferocious little rig... And it will shoot .38 special ammo, so a great starter. Stay in the .38 until you have habituated control, and your next step up is the same gun shooting .357 mag ammo. See where you want to go from there.
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When my wife was robbed the 2nd time, she took pro training, which helped fulfill the process for a license.
The instructors 'advice was to select the forearm you like the best.
My wife liked a 357 revolver. She was a good shot.
If you have a local range, ask them for guidance.
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The Taurus G2C is a decent 9mm, and is available for less than $225. The magazine does hold more than 10 rounds, however.
A .38 revolver also is a good first gun. My sister has a S&W, while my husband carries a Taurus.
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My wife liked a 357 revolver. She was a good shot.
I do too... The one weird gun (out of sequence, unreplicated) I keep around is my old S&W .357 mag, which lives in my truck... It's a good spare to have around, and I keep a couple boxes of ammo with it.
I can't seem to let it go. All it ever does these days is wait around for a car-struck deer to put out of its misery, or the very off chance that I don't have my go-bag and need to walk off into the woods for some reason (a rare to nonexistent occasion)... Or if I am jumpy in town for some reason, it's a surety stuffed behind my belt.
Well I DO got those matched nickel 9's too... in shoulder holsters. Won them in a game, and they are just too pretty to get rid of. Kinda silly really.
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If you have a local range, ask them for guidance.
Very good advice.
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I do too... The one weird gun (out of sequence, unreplicated) I keep around is my old S&W .357 mag, which lives in my truck... It's a good spare to have around, and I keep a couple boxes of ammo with it.
I can't seem to let it go. All it ever does these days is wait around for a car-struck deer to put out of its misery, or the very off chance that I don't have my go-bag and need to walk off into the woods for some reason (a rare to nonexistent occasion)... Or if I am jumpy in town for some reason, it's a surety stuffed behind my belt.
Well I DO got those matched nickel 9's too... in shoulder holsters. Won them in a game, and they are just too pretty to get rid of. Kinda silly really.
I used to own a nickel 686 with a five inch barrel. Really fun to shoot and accurate as can be. Being able to use cheaper ammo for practice was a nice bonus.
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Any suggestions anyone on plentiful and affordable ammo?
That I think, depends on region. Around here, .45 ACP and .45 Colt are king, So they are easy to find, used (well, not USED exactly... out of private stock, or reloads) if nothing else...
If you want range time for plinking, go .22LR in a pistol and a rifle. Definitely the very cheapest thing to learn on, and ammo is usually plentiful and cheap. Not the best home defense weapon I suppose, but great to have around just for field time. I literally cannot even begin to fathom how many gophers and feral cats I have taken down in my life with that ol .22 (that's 'range time' around here).
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I used to own a nickel 686 with a five inch barrel. Really fun to shoot and accurate as can be. Being able to use cheaper ammo for practice was a nice bonus.
YEP. It's nice like that. And .357 mag is enough for taking out a hoomin. Heck, a .38 will make em want to go home... But then, griz. Ol Warden Louie Kiss had a bear turn on him when he was letting it out (relocation bear), and that bear took all 6 at extremely close range and still messed him up bad.
That was when I decided to upgrade to .45 Colt, and stayed there most my life.
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@NewEnglandConservatarian anybody here can tell you what they like and are comfortable with but none of them can tell you what YOU will like and be comfortable with.
Don't know about where you are but around here there are several ranges that will let you try out any weapon in their inventory for a nominal fee. THAT is what I would suggest you consider doing.
And BTW: I'll bet you $150 that you think your life is worth many times that much.
Don't cut corners on things your life may depend on.
Welcome to TBR.
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Don't know about where you are but around here there are several ranges that will let you try out ant weapon in their inventory for a nominal fee. THAT is what I would suggest you consider doing.
pointing-up :yowsa:
That's a great point. And sets him up automagically with folks to teach him. :beer:
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I'm interested in buying a (legal of course) handgun, mainly as a contingency plan for any BS civil war adjacent activity that could arise between election day and inauguration day lol. Stipulations:
-Basic, easy to operate
-Capacity of 10 or less (state gun control laws)
-Affordable/easy to find
-Affordable/easy to find ammo
-Not girly lol
I'm not looking to break the bank here or basically almost ever use it other than practice and worst case societal collapse scenarios. Any advice or where to get affordable and maybe even gently used handguns that fit the above parameters? Under like 150 bucks or so would be great. Any good websites or online stores for this?
If this is really your reason for purchasing a handgun, I have to ask; Why a Handgun? You have to realize that getting proficient with a handgun requires quite a bit of range time. And I'm not talking about a couple of boxes of ammo. The ammo expense to become really proficient will cost more than the price of the handgun. You do know what they say a handgun is good for, don't you? A handgun is good to get you to your rifle. Have you considered a shotgun? Or how about one of the new shorty non-shotgun shotguns like the Mossberg Shockwave?
(https://cdn.athlonoutdoors.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2017/08/Mossberg-Shockwave-1.jpg)
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The Taurus G2C is a decent 9mm, and is available for less than $225. The magazine does hold more than 10 rounds, however.
A .38 revolver also is a good first gun. My sister has a S&W, while my husband carries a Taurus.
Lots of good advice in this thread, from trying out a few guns (gun ranges) to this gun (son's first gun was a G2C)... but the gun that you like is the one to go with, that means what you feel comfortable shooting. I now carry a much smaller gun than I used to due to being more comfortable conceal carrying. But I know I am not in it for a gun fight, I am shooting and running back for my rifle if at all possible. I bleed like a stuck hog now days with my blood thinner. But I carry because I can no longer fight like I could in my youth and people will kill you for little to no reason now days.
My EDC (everyday carry) is a little Ruger .380... I like the newer generation ones because they have a little more hand grip with the mag.
What is the right gun, like others said, the one you can operate and feel comfortable with. Try a few out.
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I bought my first and only handgun 14 years ago. At the time I decided I wanted a shotgun as well, so I bought one of those at the same time. Now, 14 years later, I have never (thankfully) had to use either weapon for self-defense, but I have spent many pleasant hours at the shooting range learning the intricacies of both weapons.
My shotgun is a Mossburg that has several barrels and butts. it can be anything from a sawed off defender like the one pictured earlier to a hunting rifle with scope, to a bird or skeet shooter. It cost less than $500 and has given me a lot of pleasure at the range.
If I had it to do over again I would buy a reliable 9mm revolver instead of a semi-automatic. As fun as it is to shoot the semi, there is a lot to be said for having a simple weapon that you can simply pick up and shoot, with zero possibility of jamming, and leaves no cartridge behind.
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(https://cdn.athlonoutdoors.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2017/08/Mossberg-Shockwave-1.jpg)
Nothing says 'I ain't playin' like that ominous cha-chink! Most folks lose their mud and go no further.
me being one of them. DO NOT want to tangle with a sawed-off in close quarters.
Got my peepers peeled for one of them mossbergs to come down the river myself. A thing of beauty.
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First of all what is your intended use, home defense or concealed carry? If it's home defense you should take into account where you live apartment or suburban home vs. rural, you don't want your rounds going through your target or walls into a neighbors home causing collateral damage. I would suggest you go to a gun range that rents guns and try different handguns to see which is most comfortable to shoot in the caliber that meets your needs. Too much gun for you to comfortably handle will hinder your defense and also keep you from practicing enough to become and stay proficient.
My two cents.
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Lol haven't brought it up. We don't live together though
Well if you ever do. Keep the gun close and sleep with one eye open
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Well if you ever do. Keep the gun close and sleep with one eye open
The burbs ain't bad - I spent some time around Tualatin and Gresham.
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Shooting your girlfriend will only strengthen her resolve, I don't recommend it.
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First handgun? One word: Revolver.
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Shooting your girlfriend will only strengthen her resolve, I don't recommend it.
I will reckon he is about to find a reason for disagreement with his darlin. I doubt she will be very supportive with his venture into 'assault weapons'... :whistle:
A test if there ever was one... Followed by 'I'm thinking of taking up hunting....'
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I will reckon he is about to find a reason for disagreement with his darlin. I doubt she will be very supportive with his venture into 'assault weapons'... :whistle:
A test if there ever was one... Followed by 'I'm thinking of taking up hunting....'
He can just tell her the AR-15 is a "Sporting Rifle."
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He can just tell her the AR-15 is a "Sporting Rifle."
...Which it actually is... :whistle:
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YEP. It's nice like that. And .357 mag is enough for taking out a hoomin. Heck, a .38 will make em want to go home... But then, griz. Ol Warden Louie Kiss had a bear turn on him when he was letting it out (relocation bear), and that bear took all 6 at extremely close range and still messed him up bad.
That was when I decided to upgrade to .45 Colt, and stayed there most my life.
We have that in common. Traded my .357 for a Springfield 1911 mil-spec. Surprisingly accurate, as well.
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We have that in common. Traded my .357 for a Springfield 1911 mil-spec. Surprisingly accurate, as well.
"A 9mm kills your body, a .45 will kill your soul."
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We have that in common. Traded my .357 for a Springfield 1911 mil-spec. Surprisingly accurate, as well.
Yep. I got a Rock Island 1911 in .45 ACP to replace the Peacemaker... I will probably keep it, but it is hard to shift 35 years of muscle memory. I am going back to a .45 Colt single action where I belong. :shrug:
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-Affordable/easy to find
-Affordable/easy to find ammo
Here's where you're going to have a problem. We are in the sixth month of what is arguably the largest gun run in American history. Gun availability is intermittent at best. Ammo supplies, especially of handgun ammo, are almost non-existent. What can be had is ridiculously priced most places.
The Taurus G2C/G3 is a good recommendation. Also look at the Smith & Wesson 9 Shield EZ. You're probably going to end up having to take what you can find - don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If you basically like it and can afford it you should get it - now.
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I have to admit I really like my Taurus G2C. Shoots nice and easy to break down for cleaning. And it was inexpensive.
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Could a gun thread be started to gather information about gun ownership?
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First handgun? One word: Revolver.
I agree. I taught myself to shoot handguns with 2 revolvers. A Ruger Single Six in .22 and a 3in bbl S&W Model 36 38Special. You can't beat learning to shoot with a 22. Now for a 38, it should be easy to find a good used S&W Model 10 as they made over 6 Million of them. As I had taught myself reloading when I purchased my first gun at 13, I've done most of my handgun shooting with my 38 as I can reload 38s for cheaper than I can purchase 22 shells. But reloading is a whole nuther topic.
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Could a gun thread be started to gather information about gun ownership?
Worth thinking about.
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Could a gun thread be started to gather information about gun ownership?
Gun Ownership to me; I taught myself, as my mother was totally afraid of guns. My grandfather had 3 girls, had guns all over the house, but did no firearm training for any of them. My mom forbid me to even have a bb gun. My GrandPa gave me a 22 rifle but I had to leave it at his house. Finally I broke my mom down and she let me get a bb gun. I bought my own gun magazines and reinstilled a love to hunt in my dad. And then it was on. To me for almost all my life, gun ownership was for hunting, can plinking, and target shooting. It never occurred to me to have a handgun solely for protection. While hunting I'd strap on my Ruger Blackhawk .45, but not for protection from 2 legged creatures.
Start your children, or even yourself, out with a BB Gun, then an Air Rifle, and then a .22 rifle. Read Sporting/Wildllife magazines. Find a safe place to shoot. I hate having to go and shoot at a range. Find a place to hunt. You can start out with small game. Then you can then step up to handguns.
Gun ownership solely for personal protection is a concept that is really foreign to me. Yes, I've carried a concealed weapon, mostly when I walk my dogs, in case of attacking dogs. But I really didn't want to shoot a dog, so I now carry an ASP baton. For house protection, I have my M1Carbine at the ready, with many backups avail.
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Could a gun thread be started to gather information about gun ownership?
It ain't that I own guns. It's finding the guns I own. For every one I have here, there are two out in the sticks. And the same goes for ammo.
While we're on the subject, anybody got a recommendation for a good takedown recurve bow?
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It ain't that I own guns. It's finding the guns I own. For every one I have here, there are two out in the sticks. And the same goes for ammo.
While we're on the subject, anybody got a recommendation for a good takedown recurve bow?
I was thinking a bit more on this - given the rush to buy firearms by millions of Americans this past year, and over the past decade for that matter, monitoring a thread like this trying to get a useful amount of info would be a colossal waste of time. Still prolly a good idea to limit what we tell over the interwebs.
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I was thinking a bit more on this - given the rush to buy firearms by millions of Americans this past year, and over the past decade for that matter, monitoring a thread like this trying to get a useful amount of info would be a colossal waste of time. Still prolly a good idea to limit what we tell over the interwebs.
It is certainly a waste of time in my case. All my guns were bought cash second hand with the exception of two. There is no record on em, nothing to track. Even trying to guess how many I own would be impossible. But I have enough. Other than that little Mossberg sawed off upthread. I don't have enough of them. This is the year to beef up my 12ga I guess.
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I was thinking a bit more on this - given the rush to buy firearms by millions of Americans this past year, and over the past decade for that matter, monitoring a thread like this trying to get a useful amount of info would be a colossal waste of time. Still prolly a good idea to limit what we tell over the interwebs.
Valid point. In my case, both of my weapons are registered and I have no problem advertising to anyone hostile to my interests that I own them. I do realize we are but one election away from my guns suddenly getting "stolen." That would be a doggone shame, but better stolen than confiscated, I say.
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...but then there was that unfortunate boating accident on Lake Powell.....
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@NewEnglandConservatarian
A -shot 357 Magnum double action revolver with a 4 or 6 inch barrel. There is no gun safer for a new user to own or handle,and you can buy and shoot the cheaper 38 Special bullets to learn how to handle the gun safely and shoot it accurately.
Do NOT buy a "snub gun" because they are wildly inaccurate unless you are an experienced shooter. Stay with the 4 to 6 inch barrels in a medium-frame revolver.
MY suggestion is a stainless steel Ruger.
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I don't think your $150 threshold is realistic.
@NewEnglandConservatarian
I would say impossible unless you are buying a stolen gun.
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Any suggestions anyone on plentiful and affordable ammo?
@NewEnglandConservatarian
Look around for a gun store that sells reloads,and buy your 357 Magnun/38 Special revolver from that store.
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Valid point. In my case, both of my weapons are registered and I have no problem advertising to anyone hostile to my interests that I own them. I do realize we are but one election away from my guns suddenly getting "stolen." That would be a doggone shame, but better stolen than confiscated, I say.
I have read gun stores are only obligated to keep records for a limited time - 7 years? - and after that there is no record of purchase. By law the government is not able to store background check info. No one knows anything about what I own and I intend to keep it that way.
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I do too... The one weird gun (out of sequence, unreplicated) I keep around is my old S&W .357 mag, which lives in my truck... It's a good spare to have around, and I keep a couple boxes of ammo with it.
I can't seem to let it go. All it ever does these days is wait around for a car-struck deer to put out of its misery, or the very off chance that I don't have my go-bag and need to walk off into the woods for some reason (a rare to nonexistent occasion)... Or if I am jumpy in town for some reason, it's a surety stuffed behind my belt.
Well I DO got those matched nickel 9's too... in shoulder holsters. Won them in a game, and they are just too pretty to get rid of. Kinda silly really.
@roamer_1
Yeah,but they didn't cost you anything,it costs you nothing to keep them,and maybe one day some idiot will offer to trade you something useful for them?
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I bought my first and only handgun 14 years ago. At the time I decided I wanted a shotgun as well, so I bought one of those at the same time. Now, 14 years later, I have never (thankfully) had to use either weapon for self-defense, but I have spent many pleasant hours at the shooting range learning the intricacies of both weapons.
My shotgun is a Mossburg that has several barrels and butts. it can be anything from a sawed off defender like the one pictured earlier to a hunting rifle with scope, to a bird or skeet shooter. It cost less than $500 and has given me a lot of pleasure at the range.
If I had it to do over again I would buy a reliable 9mm revolver instead of a semi-automatic. As fun as it is to shoot the semi, there is a lot to be said for having a simple weapon that you can simply pick up and shoot, with zero possibility of jamming, and leaves no cartridge behind.
@massadvj
9mm REVOLVER? WHY in the name of Gawd would you do something like that and limit yourself to 115 grain bullets? Epecially when there are 357 Magnum revolvers you can buy cheaper that also shoot 38 Specials?
IMHO,the BIG plus for novice shooters looking for a self-defense weapon is revolvers have no safety to forget to take off in the heat of the moment.
For people who have handled and fired guns all their lives or who have been in gunfights,this is no big deal. For someone new to shooting who has never shot anyone or been shot at by anyone,this is a VERY big deal.
"Revolvers,the original point and click devices!" You point them where you want to shoot,and keep pulling the trigger until all you hear are clicks instead of booms.You then reload,and repeat if necessary.
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@massadvj
9mm REVOLVER? WHY in the name of Gawd would you do something like that and limit yourself to 115 grain bullets? Epecially when there are 357 Magnum revolvers you can buy cheaper that also shoot 38 Specials?
IMHO,the BIG plus for novice shooters looking for a self-defense weapon is revolvers have no safety to forget to take off in the heat of the moment.
"Revolvers,the original point and click devices!" You point them where you want to shoot,and keep pulling the trigger until all you hear are clicks instead of booms.You then reload,and repeat if necessary.
If I gotta rely on 9mm I want at least 15 rounds at my immediate disposal.
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YEP. It's nice like that. And .357 mag is enough for taking out a hoomin. Heck, a .38 will make em want to go home... But then, griz. Ol Warden Louie Kiss had a bear turn on him when he was letting it out (relocation bear), and that bear took all 6 at extremely close range and still messed him up bad.
That was when I decided to upgrade to .45 Colt, and stayed there most my life.
@roamer_1
Few people are bigger fans of old slab sides than me,and I even have one I custom built to shoot MY handloads that won't even cycle GI Ball far enough to create a jam. It is also insanely accurae.
When it comes to fending off the hordes of thugs,I will take my 45 ACP every time without fail.
HOWEVER,if I were facing off against a bear,I would pick a 357 with a 6 inch barrel and my handloads every time.
45ACP's are wonderful devices for dealing with human attackers,but they ain't for bears.
BTW,I agree with you on the 45 Long Colt,but you and I both know what that is,and the massive differences between that and a 45 ACP.
A new shooter won't know that,and you and I both know a new shooter ain't up to shooting a bear with something like Ruger SA loaded with stiff 45 LC handloads.
Nor is the Ruger SA Six or the Colt 45 SA LC practical for concealed carry,and most people who live in cities can only carry concealed.
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Used, In stock
Taurus 651 .357 Magnum caliber revolver. All steel snub nose revolver with laser grips. Excellent condition. (PR50281) $549.95
https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/post-war-modern-pistols-revolvers/?sort=priceasc (https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/post-war-modern-pistols-revolvers/?sort=priceasc)
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@sneakypete
So what exactly is the diff between .45 ACP and LC? I know the cartridges are different (I have weapons for both kinds), but is the charge different? The grains of the bullet?
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@sneakypete
So what exactly is the diff between .45 ACP and LC? I know the cartridges are different (I have weapons for both kinds), but is the charge different? The grains of the bullet?
With the 45Colt, or 45Long Colt if you so prefer, think of a 44 Magnum shooting a .454 in dia bullet instead of a .429 in dia bullet. In a strong modern revolver the 45 Colt can handle the same amount of pressure as the same gun in 44 Magnum. As the 45Colt was originally a black powder cartridge and there are many guns that can only handle that amount of power, until recently all the 45Colt ammo was at a puny power level. Now ammo makers are selling selected ammo with much more power. And for us reloaders, it has never been an issue.
For comparisons between the 45ACP and the 45Colt. If you are limiting the 45Colt to black powder pressure levels I believe it is still more powerful than the 45ACP.
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@Elderberry Muy Bueno! Gracias!
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@massadvj
9mm REVOLVER? WHY in the name of Gawd would you do something like that and limit yourself to 115 grain bullets? Epecially when there are 357 Magnum revolvers you can buy cheaper that also shoot 38 Specials?
IMHO,the BIG plus for novice shooters looking for a self-defense weapon is revolvers have no safety to forget to take off in the heat of the moment.
For people who have handled and fired guns all their lives or who have been in gunfights,this is no big deal. For someone new to shooting who has never shot anyone or been shot at by anyone,this is a VERY big deal.
"Revolvers,the original point and click devices!" You point them where you want to shoot,and keep pulling the trigger until all you hear are clicks instead of booms.You then reload,and repeat if necessary.
I don't disagree with anything you said here. I bought a 9mm semi because I did not want a gun with too much of a kick, but I wanted something heftier than a 22. Having shot a few 357 revolvers on the range, I think they are great. I might even get one for myself one of these days.
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If I gotta rely on 9mm I want at least 15 rounds at my immediate disposal.
Two words: hollow point.
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Used, In stock
Taurus 651 .357 Magnum caliber revolver. All steel snub nose revolver with laser grips. Excellent condition. (PR50281) $549.95
https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/post-war-modern-pistols-revolvers/?sort=priceasc (https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/post-war-modern-pistols-revolvers/?sort=priceasc)
@Elderberry
Wouldn't have it as a gift. Anybody that buys a snub nose .357 Magnum is a fool. More useful as a club than a handgun.
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@sneakypete
So what exactly is the diff between .45 ACP and LC? I know the cartridges are different (I have weapons for both kinds), but is the charge different? The grains of the bullet?
@Cyber Liberty
Velocity,bullet weight,powder charges,and recoil. A full-powered modern 45LC round is a 44 Magnum with a different name.
Do a web search for photos of a 45 Long Colt round and a 45 ACP round and you will immediately see the difference.
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I bought a 9mm semi because I did not want a gun with too much of a kick, but I wanted something heftier than a 22. Having shot a few 357 revolvers on the range, I think they are great. I might even get one for myself one of these days.
@massadvj
I am in complete agreement with everything you wrote there. Hell,I even have a 9mm semi-auto so small it fits in my pants pocket without making a bulge.
The thing is in your earlier post,you wrote "9mm REVOLVER".
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Two words: hollow point.
One word,"head shot".
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@Cyber Liberty
Velocity,bullet weight,powder charges,and recoil. A full-powered modern 45LC round is a 44 Magnum with a different name.
Do a web search for photos of a 45 Long Colt round and a 45 ACP round and you will immediately see the difference.
I'll have a look. I don't need to Goggle, I have both in my stock.
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@Elderberry
Wouldn't have it as a gift. Anybody that buys a snub nose .357 Magnum is a fool. More useful as a club than a handgun.
I just posted it cause it was the cheapest available used 357 I found from a site that I've purchased several handguns from and I wanted to see what prices are these days.
A 38 Special gives up quite a bit of velocity when shot out of a snub nose, so you gain some velocity back stepping up to 357 Mag along with a hellacious muzzle blast.
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Just as the 45Colt has been modernized by increasing the pressure produced up from the Black Powder days up into the modern Smokeless days, the 45ACP has also been modernized with the 45Super round that has the same dimensions as the original 45ACP that was designed using the smokeless powders available back in 1904.
What Is the .45 Super Cartridge?
Sky Above Us by Tom Blalock 3/27/2020
https://skyaboveus.com/hunting-shooting/What-is-the-45-Super (https://skyaboveus.com/hunting-shooting/What-is-the-45-Super)
A Dash of History...
To explain the .45 Super cartridge, it might be best to give a little history lesson on its direct descendant, the venerable .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). The .45 ACP was designed in 1904 by John Browning, specifically for his new M1911 automatic pistol, which would go on to become the standard service weapon of the United States military from 1911 to 1985. That particular weapon is also the basis for modern 1911 style weapons.
The .45 Super is a modern redesign of the .45 ACP cartridge. It utilizes stronger powders, and strengthened brass, without losing any of its original dimensions, leaving it the same size as the original .45 Super cartridge.
Why Redesign What Works?
As it is with technology, what was new in 1904 is nearly ancient in the modern world. The .45 ACP is no exception to that rule. Since its creation, newer, more powerful forms of smokeless powder have been created, as well as more modern cartridges. While still considered one of the most reliable cartridges for home defense due to its size, the .45 ACP struggles to match other rounds in terms of power and speed in comparison with case capacity.
The reason is actually quite simple. In 1904, when the cartridge was first designed, the more powerful smokeless powders in use today had not yet been invented. The case walls and brass webbing were designed to handle the powder of the time, nothing more. That translates into the modern day pressure specifications of 21,000 PSI for .45 ACP, and 34,084 and 37,500, for 9mm and 10mm respectively. As you can see, the 9mm and 10mm can handle pressures just shy of double that of the .45 ACP.
What this translates to is that the .45 ACP cartridge uses less of its modern day potential for its size than more modern rounds.
More at link.
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@massadvj
I am in complete agreement with everything you wrote there. Hell,I even have a 9mm semi-auto so small it fits in my pants pocket without making a bulge.
The thing is in your earlier post,you wrote "9mm REVOLVER".
I know what I wrote. On reflection I agree a 357 would be better.
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Just as the 45Colt has been modernized by increasing the pressure produced up from the Black Powder days up into the modern Smokeless days, the 45ACP has also been modernized with the 45Super round that has the same dimensions as the original 45ACP that was designed using the smokeless powders available back in 1904.
Not a fan of this, or any other modernized cartridge, that will chamber in guns not designed to handle it. FAR too much room for accidents IMHO.
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Not a fan of this, or any other modernized cartridge, that will chamber in guns not designed to handle it. FAR too much room for accidents IMHO.
@Bigun
It's not a problem if you know what you are doing.
My "go to town" 1911 is a all-steel 1970's combat commander that I modified so it would handle my "stout" reloads. All will say about them is they use Unique and 200 grain hard cast semi-wadcutters.
All I will say about the pistol is that it happily eats rounds that make a loud "CLANG" noise when fired in stock 1911A1,and it won't even cycle far enough to jam an empty case from a GI Ball load.
Other than it functions flawlessly without a single jam or failure to fire after having shot at least a thousand rounds through it,and it shoots where I look.
My other "go to town" gun is a stainless Rossi 5 shot single action only 44 Special no rear site other than the groove running down the top strap,and a thumbless haammer. Given that it is single-action only,a hammer with a thumb cocker on it is useless anyhow.
The action was so slick right out of the box I have never even removed the side plate.
I shoot 200 gr Winchester Silvertips in it. This is gun I carry when I go to "peaceful" towns and don't anticipate needing to reload it in a hurry.
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BTW,I agree with you on the 45 Long Colt,but you and I both know what that is,and the massive differences between that and a 45 ACP.
Yeah, That's right... But the main thing for me @sneakypete , is that the colt don't stovepipe, and in the chain of events wrt a single action, the only thing that don't go bang is a dud cartridge. Add to that, decades of barrel weight built into my aim...
I am alright with the 1911. Target practice, I am doing fine.even pretty good with the clip drop (which is the only thing I consider an advantage)... But it's all by rote. After months, I don't feel it. I still won't +1 because I don't trust myself with it. All that goes to reaction time, which is really the only time I will ever need it.
If I am puling that pistol, it's because my rifle is already empty and I do not have a means of retreat or reload... Or it is too up close to make the rifle of use... That means everything up close and personal, with no room for error... Very likely against a griz or a moose. I am alright with a 1911, but a Colt cowboy in a crossdraw rocker holster has become so natural to me that it's just an extension of me. I feel it. That natural feel, all that muscle memory is worth way more than anything else in that scenario, so I am better to stick to what I know intimately. Old dogs and all.
In the end I suppose the 1911 is a superior weapon. Especially if moving and able to reload. How I would love the advantage in that case... It just ain't superior to me. My ability to adapt is far outweighed by my familiarity with a Colt. Do you see what I mean?
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@roamer_1
Yeah,but they didn't cost you anything,it costs you nothing to keep them,and maybe one day some idiot will offer to trade you something useful for them?
@sneakypete
It's dumb, ain't it? I keep em around under the premise that they make a fine gentleman's rig... All that pretty nickel and hand tooled leather spring holsters... It's all pretty silly, as I'd have to be a gentleman first, with at least one more suit than I have owned these past twenty or thirty years. :laugh:
I am not often attracted to shiny sh*t, but those 9's just give me the fizz... Yeah, sooner or later someone will like em more than me, and likely that's their destination. But for now... :beer:
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Have a Happy Gunday, yall.
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0d1389ba1bd26597574a286b2cad4a90869a4ff590a96ae46567dde7dea1cf5b.jpg)
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Have a Happy Gunday, yall.
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0d1389ba1bd26597574a286b2cad4a90869a4ff590a96ae46567dde7dea1cf5b.jpg)
That poor young lady is in for a surprise when that starts ejecting hot cartridges....
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That poor young lady is in for a surprise when that starts ejecting hot cartridges....
@Cyber Liberty
And with any luck at all,there will be at least 3 people there with video cameras recording her jumping up and down.