The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: EdJames on July 13, 2019, 08:52:11 pm
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Ted Cruz Slams Tennessee Law Honoring Confederate General, KKK Grand Wizard Nathan Bedford Forest
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/timothymeads/2019/07/13/ted-cruz-slams-tennessee-for-honoring-confederate-general-kkk-grand-wizard-nathan-bedford-forest-n2550007
(https://media.townhall.com/townhall/reu/ha/2019/157/d43a86cf-0b16-4386-9bed-2555e6ac079d.png)
Timothy Meads | Posted: Jul 13, 2019 12:00 PM
Excerpt:
Mandated by law, Saturday, July 13 is "Nathan Forrest Bedford Day" Tennessee with an annual proclamation issued by the governor each year. On Friday evening, Senator Ted Cruz of Texas slammed Governor Bill Lee for signing the announcement once again.
This is WRONG. Nathan Bedford Forrest was a Confederate general & a delegate to the 1868 Democratic Convention. He was also a slave trader & the 1st Grand Wizard of the KKK. Tennessee should not have an official day (tomorrow) honoring him. Change the law. https://t.co/XBgoRCBoI0
— Ted Cruz (@tedcruz) July 12, 2019
But why did he have to sign the law? Fox News has the details:
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Ted. Worry about Texas. K?
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Ted. Worry about Texas. K?
Yeah, but he's right.
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Yeah, but he's right.
So you say. Are you woke?
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Yeah, but he's right.
I'm not so sure about that.... I think that history has given Forrest a short shrift....
“In 1871 a Congressional investigation was convened to look into Forrest’s alleged involvement with the Klan and to revisit the Ft. Pillow “massacre.†The investigation was chaired by Forrest’s old enemy, William Tecumseh Sherman, who told the press that, “We are here to investigate Forrest, charge Forrest, try Forrest, convict Forrest, and hang Forrest.â€
The outcome of the 1871 investigation was twofold. The committee found no evidence that Forrest had participated in the formation of the Klan and that even the use of his name may well have been without his permission. They also found that there was no credible evidence that Forrest had ever participated in or directed any actions of the Klan.
“The reports of Committees, House of Representatives, second session, forty-second congress,†P. 7-449.
http://www.flatfenders.com/scv/forrest%20defense.htm (http://www.flatfenders.com/scv/forrest%20defense.htm)
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Ted, shut up and go get a shave.
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So you say. Are you woke?
You don't need to be "woke" to think Nathan Bedford Forrest was a worm.
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Ted, shut up and go get a shave.
Ted, shout it loud and proud but, yeah, go get a shave.
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What, exactly, is the point of crucifying the already dead?
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What, exactly, is the point of crucifying the already dead?
True. None of our historic figures were perfect. Many of them were slave owners, for example. But I detest this effort to remove them from our history. History is history, warts and all, and when we try to remove all trace of chunks of it, we do ourselves and particularly our younger generations a great disservice.
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Ted. Worry about Texas. K?
Somebody needs to tell Ted that minding one's own business is a very good thing.
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I've been researching my genealogy and, thus far, haven't found any ancestors who fought for the US in the Civil War - all CSA. I had no idea.
Hey, I know, let's pretend they never existed!
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I'm not so sure about that.... I think that history has given Forrest a short shrift....
Lengthy discussion at: https://historicstruggle.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/nathan-bedford-forrest-on-trial-part-1/
@EdJames You may be correct but I consider it at the least, an open matter. Congress in 1871? Maybe they just didn't care to stir things up.
Yeah, but he's right.
He's absolutely right. He's criticized white supremacist types before in the aftermath of Charlottesville. All of these things connect to his constituency. He represents all in TX.
The Massacre at Fort Pillow:Holding Nathan Bedford Forrest Accountable
https://campusnet.sebts.edu/pluginfile.php/201781/mod_resource/content/10/CMS%20paper.pdf
So, congress had an investigation post-CW Construction era on the Ft. Pillow Massacre. We are to take that as being true? Remind me how long it was until Southern Senators started voting for the rights of African Americans? 1870s or 1970s?
I have heard Bedford distanced himself from his past after his life. That I think is said in the wikipedia bio.
Fort Pillow is not the only instance of a massacre or threatened massacre of black soldiers by troops under Forrest’s command.Biographer Brian Steel Wills points out that at Brice’s Cross Roads in June 1864, “black soldiers suffered inordinately†as Forrest looked the other way and Confederate soldiers deliberately sought out those they termed “the damned negroes.â€19
From the above essay. To really delve into this, as I've said before, I have lurked some and researched from the Civil War forum. That's a stopping-off point to note.
I don't even know, if there is a Nathan Bedford museum or something, if they'd even say Bedford wasn't involved in some of these acts.
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It's like Rush says, the confederate flag like it or not, is the legacy of the Democrats. I fully respect that flag, I see nothing wrong with saying what Rush did. Nathan Bedford was a Democrat. That we know.
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Ted is absolutely right. Honoring a KKK Grand Wizard is ok with everyone? I get that its not Ted's district/state, but many times I have written/called/e-mailed many Congressmen in different districts and states for help., i.e., illegal immigration.
Yes they were elected to serve their constituents, but they should also be concerned about the welfare of this country period.
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What happened to leaving states alone, Ted?
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It's like Rush says, the confederate flag like it or not, is the legacy of the Democrats. I fully respect that flag, I see nothing wrong with saying what Rush did. Nathan Bedford was a Democrat. That we know.
So what?
Does that justify someone being slandered and having lies propagated about their life, because they were a Democrat?
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Ted is absolutely right. Honoring a KKK Grand Wizard is ok with everyone?
No, Ted is not.
In the first place, there is a good deal of disagreement whether NBF was actually in the KKK at all - And he most vociferously denied any involvement with the KKK...
And even if every damnable bit of it is true, which I don't believe, or am neutral in, the other half of the story is that after the war, NBF was one of the most conciliatory voices trying to heal troubles between blacks and whites in the South To the point of being denounced by many. So at the least, it should be considered that the man had a genuine change of heart, and that at some expense.
It has been a long time since I did that research into the Civil war. But that is the takeaway that I was left with.
I would say leave well enough alone, and Tennessee is none of Ted's business.
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Ted is absolutely right. Honoring a KKK Grand Wizard is ok with everyone? I get that its not Ted's district/state, but many times I have written/called/e-mailed many Congressmen in different districts and states for help., i.e., illegal immigration.
Yes they were elected to serve their constituents, but they should also be concerned about the welfare of this country period.
It is not clear that Forrest was a KKK Grand Wizard.
(Everything that you are taught in school or read in books, magazines, or newspapers is necessarily the truth.)
The following article appeared in the New York times June 27th, “Washington, 1871. Gen Forrest was before the Klu Klux Committee today, and his examination lasted four hours. After the examination, he remarked than the committee treated him with much courtesy and respect.â€
Congressional records show that Gen. Forrest was absolved of all complicity in the founding or operation of the Ku Klux Klan, and he was certainly never a “Grand Wizardâ€. These committees had the utmost evidence and living witnesses at their disposal. The evidence precluded any Guilt or indictment of Gen. Forrest and the matter was closed before that body of final judgment in 1872.
Ibid.
I am not entirely convinced one way or the other. But I don't accept the accusations as gospel.
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Did Ted Cruz ever criticize Robert C. Byrd? This West Virginian wants to know.
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1) As long as he's using his personal account, he's got just as much right to comment on the matters occurring in another state as the rest of us do.
2) I really felt like I should mind my own business, since I don't live in TX, but I contributed to his first Senate primary campaign.
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1) As long as he's using his personal account, he's got just as much right to comment on the matters occurring in another state as the rest of us do.
2) I really felt like I should mind my own business, since I don't live in TX, but I contributed to his first Senate primary campaign.
Agreed, he certainly may comment on whatever he likes. And I think he would have been a good president. But if he's mistaken on an historical fact, perhaps he should withhold commentary.
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Agreed, he certainly may comment on whatever he likes. And I think he would have been a good president. But if he's mistaken on an historical fact, perhaps he should withhold commentary.
He's playing to voters. Pandering.
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Agreed, he certainly may comment on whatever he likes. And I think he would have been a good president. But if he's mistaken on an historical fact, perhaps he should withhold commentary.
At least when there is dispute over that history, discretion is the better part of valor.
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Okay.....
Here is my take on it. NBF is a polarizing figure in confederate lore, an outstanding general, and yes...... one of the progenitors of the KKK.
I have no problem with what Cruz is saying..... HOWEVER......
Tennessee... How about instead of honoring NBF, why don't you (1) enact legislation protecting the graves and statues of confedrate soldiers against vandalism, and vile SJW monument removal tactics
....and (2) Change NBF Day to Confederate Soldiers Day, honoring the young men (90% which did not own slaves) for their bravery and valor during the WBTS
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In the first place, there is a good deal of disagreement whether NBF was actually in the KKK at all - And he most vociferously denied any involvement with the KKK...
I spent a lot of headache filled amount of research on this issue many years ago. You are right .... There is not 100% consensus proof that NBF was a card carrying member of the KKK, but there is enough compelling evidence to suggest that this is true. As much as I wanted to believee he wasn't , I lean 80/20 that he was. it is a very complicated mess so to speak.
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I spent a lot of headache filled amount of research on this issue many years ago. You are right .... There is not 100% consensus proof that NBF was a card carrying member of the KKK, but there is enough compelling evidence to suggest that this is true. As much as I wanted to believee he wasn't , I lean 80/20 that he was. it is a very complicated mess so to speak.
Alright, but that does not jibe with his position after the war.
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Alright, but that does not jibe with his position after the war.
Absolutely. (generally 1870's) The KKK went ultra violent, NBF distanced himself at that point,
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(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/913/31dJ3D.jpg)
Wake me up when he goes after the Mounties with such fervor.
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I believe one can run the risk of dishonoring true Confederate heroes if one exalts others of poor character or other dubious qualities.
Billy the Kid, Pancho Villa, they are the stuff of legend but they were probably not good people. Maybe Jesse James too.
Apparently, TN already celebrates 2 other Confederate holidays, b-day of Jefferson Davis and some other one.
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You don't need to be "woke" to think Nathan Bedford Forrest was a worm.
But you have to be an ass to say that. Grow up.
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He's playing to voters. Pandering.
Which voters is he pandering to? Mexies don't know US history.
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Absolutely. (generally 1870's) The KKK went ultra violent, NBF distanced himself at that point,
The KKK was founded as a benevolent organization but went rouge within a shot period.
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I have been away and haven't read all of the responses, but there aren't any statues being torn down are there, or any history being rewritten? Just a suggestion that NBD not be honored on a yearly basis? Maybe I misunderstood?
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So what?
Does that justify someone being slandered and having lies propagated about their life, because they were a Democrat?
I can't think of a better reason.
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Actually, it depends on what part of his life one looks at. Late in life Nathan Bedford Forrest ordered the disbanding of the KKK, offered to help hunt down those who had lynched some freed blacks, and was honored as a beneficiary of free blacks by the oddly named Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association, an organization of freed slaves, and vilified by southern racists for his views on black advancement.
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Actually, it depends on what part of his life one looks at. Late in life Nathan Bedford Forrest ordered the disbanding of the KKK, offered to help hunt down those who had lynched some freed blacks, and was honored as a beneficiary of free blacks by the oddly named Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association, an organization of freed slaves, and vilified by southern racists for his views on black advancement.
History is lost on the "woke"
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I believe one can run the risk of dishonoring true Confederate heroes if one exalts others of poor character or other dubious qualities.
Billy the Kid, Pancho Villa, they are the stuff of legend but they were probably not good people. Maybe Jesse James too.
Apparently, TN already celebrates 2 other Confederate holidays, b-day of Jefferson Davis and some other one.
As someone who had ancestors who fought for the traitorous CSA, there is nothing heroic about the people from the CSA.
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I applaud anyone who calls out Democrats for their racist past. Cruz is correct. Nathan Bedford Forest, while perhaps one of the greatest cavalry commanders ever, was also a primary founder of the KKK. His participation was short-lived, and the Klan of Reconstruction days was not the same Klan that President Woodrow Wilson help resurrect. But it has always been inappropriate for politicians like Algore to criticize States like South Carolina and Mississippi for celebrating their Confederate heritage, yet remain silent on Tennessee's celebration of Forest.
Ted Cruz should be commended for speaking out and fighting a battle that most Republicans are too cowardly to address. Just last week we saw Joe Biden describing segregationists like Herman Talmadge and James Eastland as being on the other side of the aisle. And not one Republican corrected him by pointing out that the segregationists were all on Biden's side of the aisle. God bless Ted Cruz for standing in the way of Democrats rewriting history. I am sick and tired of hearing liberals who really do believe George Wallace was a Republican, that Republicans opposed the Civil Rights Act, and that the Dred Scott decision was handed down by a Republican Supreme Court.
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I applaud anyone who calls out Democrats for their racist past. Cruz is correct. Nathan Bedford Forest, while perhaps one of the greatest cavalry commanders ever, was also a primary founder of the KKK. His participation was short-lived, and the Klan of Reconstruction days was not the same Klan that President Woodrow Wilson help resurrect. But it has always been inappropriate for politicians like Algore to criticize States like South Carolina and Mississippi for celebrating their Confederate heritage, yet remain silent on Tennessee's celebration of Forest.
Ted Cruz should be commended for speaking out and fighting a battle that most Republicans are too cowardly to address. Just last week we saw Joe Biden describing segregationists like Herman Talmadge and James Eastland as being on the other side of the aisle. And not one Republican corrected him by pointing out that the segregationists were all on Biden's side of the aisle. God bless Ted Cruz for standing in the way of Democrats rewriting history. I am sick and tired of hearing liberals who really do believe George Wallace was a Republican, that Republicans opposed the Civil Rights Act, and that the Dred Scott decision was handed down by a Republican Supreme Court.
President in 2024?
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As someone who had ancestors who fought for the traitorous CSA, there is nothing heroic about the people from the CSA.
As one whose family ancestors share four centuries of history in Virginia, I happen to have a different viewpoint on this one. Virginia was attacked. Virginia was invaded. And Virginia defended itself with valor.
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Cruz is slowly shifting to my untrusted list... What did he have to gain by spitting at someone that the South likes? Most Southerns don't know Nathan's full history and don't care about could-ofs and should-ofs... Sorry, but in my book this was a bonehead move... No Cruz worship here...
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As someone who had ancestors who fought for the traitorous CSA, there is nothing heroic about the people from the CSA.
How do you feel about the traitorous USA?
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Cruz is slowly shifting to my untrusted list... What did he have to gain by spitting at someone that the South likes? Most Southerns don't know Nathan's full history and don't care about could-ofs and should-ofs... Sorry, but in my book this was a bonehead move... No Cruz worship here...
That the South likes? I lived in Memphis for years and opinions were all over the place regarding Forrest.
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I lived in Memphis for years and opinions were all over the place regarding Forrest.
Bull shit. When did you live in Memphis
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Bull shit. When did you live in Memphis
We're not having this conversation.
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True. None of our historic figures were perfect. Many of them were slave owners, for example. But I detest this effort to remove them from our history. History is history, warts and all, and when we try to remove all trace of chunks of it, we do ourselves and particularly our younger generations a great disservice.
First you ignore it, then you erase it, next you forget it,and finally you repeat it.
“Ignorance and its denial will, sad to say, lead us down the same road as it did in all past history.â€
― Jordan Maxwell, Symbols, Sex, and the Stars in Popular Beliefs
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We're not having this conversation.
Of course not. We never have a real conversation anymore. Carry on.
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As someone who had ancestors who fought for the traitorous CSA, there is nothing heroic about the people from the CSA.
So the non-slave owning men who rose to defend their homes and way of life from a northern invasion were not heroic in their response?
OTOH...never mind. You aren't worth the breath to respond to.
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How do you feel about the traitorous USA?
Good point. This individual should spit on Washington, Jefferson, and Adams while he is at it.
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Cruz is slowly shifting to my untrusted list... What did he have to gain by spitting at someone that the South likes? Most Southerns don't know Nathan's full history and don't care about could-ofs and should-ofs... Sorry, but in my book this was a bonehead move... No Cruz worship here...
Yep. I am really getting there too.
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You don't need to be "woke" to think Nathan Bedford Forrest was a worm.
No you don't, but you have to either be unfamiliar with his later life, when he opposed KKK violence, was regarded as a benefactor by freed slaves, and was vilified by white racists for his views on black advancement, or have the "woke" attitude that repentance is impossible and having once held and acted on wrong views on race makes one forever a "worm" a you put it.
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Cruz is slowly shifting to my untrusted list... What did he have to gain by spitting at someone that the South likes? Most Southerns don't know Nathan's full history and don't care about could-ofs and should-ofs... Sorry, but in my book this was a bonehead move... No Cruz worship here...
He's pandering, plain and simple. Another one bites the dust.
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How do you feel about the traitorous USA?
What is so traitorous about the USA??
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What is so traitorous about the USA??
You are in dire need of a history lesson from about 1760-1865.
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Fascinating, how any thread with the words "Cruz" in the title garners more interest than a cure for cancer around here.
You guyz are a laugh a minute. happy77
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Dear Ted,ESAD!
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Fascinating, how any thread with the words "Cruz" in the title garners more interest than a cure for cancer around here.
You guyz are a laugh a minute. happy77
@DCPatriot
He is this sites favorite Usual Suspect RINO. Seems to be lots of people here from Texas.
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I ould have been impressed, had Sen. Cruz stated that we needed to stop re-writing history, stop taking down statues, etc.
My ancestors were mainly opposed to slavery. But in 2019 it pains me to see us tearing ourselves apart, pulling down statues, etc.
Our history is our history. If we cannot honor it and remember it, we are less of a people.
When California was a colony of Spain, Catholic priest Fr. Junipero Serra built a string of missions.
Many of the building still remain standing.
These days it is expected to apply current norms, and claim he held natives capttive and used them as slave labor to construct missions, and to till the soils of the adjacent farms.
There are many buildings, paintings, streeets and highways, statues named for him.
So what do we now do? Tear down these beautiful buildings, rip out the highways?
I think we are n the midst of widespread Cloward Piven, movement. At the borders, and in the interior.
Flood the system with problems, criticisms, chaos and anarchy.
Rome and Greece are not destroying their histories.
Only the Taliban destroys history.
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Amen, @truth_seeker !
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What is so traitorous about the USA??
They had an existing form of governance, decided to break with it, and formed their own just for themselves. Just like the CSA.
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Okay.....
Here is my take on it. NBF is a polarizing figure in confederate lore, an outstanding general, and yes...... one of the progenitors of the KKK.
I have no problem with what Cruz is saying..... HOWEVER......
Tennessee... How about instead of honoring NBF, why don't you (1) enact legislation protecting the graves and statues of confedrate soldiers against vandalism, and vile SJW monument removal tactics
....and (2) Change NBF Day to Confederate Soldiers Day, honoring the young men (90% which did not own slaves) for their bravery and valor during the WBTS
:amen:
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:amen:
@libertybelle
NBF was a southern hero,and widely admired by both black and white southerners of his time. He created the KKK NOT to cause harm to blacks,but as a counter to the rape of the locals brought about by the carpet baggers,who came south to steal everything in sight,and mostly did just that.
One of their favorite tactics was to appoint relatives as judges,sheriffs,and tax collectors,and declare all back taxes to be due immediately. Which was impossible for most because they had been away fighting the war,not farming and making money. The sheriff's also liked to do things like follow the law by tacking the tax sales notices on the door of the courthouse after dark,and then selling to the highest (and usually only) bidder at sunrise for just a few dollars. That bidder was usually related to the sheriff and the judge,and most of the time they turned around and put it up for sale at market value or higher,and sold it to fellow yankee carpet baggers.
None of the former Confederate soldiers returning home had any money at all because they hadn't been paid in months,and some hadn't farmed their farms or ran their family businesses for years.
Some of these former Confederate soldiers were free men who put on the gray uniform and fought for the south. There is at least one graveyard near Norfolk,Va,but last I read it was severely neglected because no city official wanted to get caught spending city money on a Confederate graveyard. Probably none wanted to spend money on a black Confederate graveyard after the War of Norther Aggression because they were all yankees,and two or more generations later,their offsprung were running things and considered to be locals.
Plus,it was impolite to mention things like "free blacks" and "black Confederate soldiers". Just didn't fit with what was being taught in the schools.
Anyhow,NBF is and has always been demonized because the north HAD to defend their propaganda about how all blacks were slaves and all white southerners were monsters,or how could they justify the war they started,or charming incidents like burning Atlanta?
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"Ted Cruz Slams Tennessee Law Honoring Confederate General, KKK Grand Wizard Nathan Bedford Forest..."
Keep talkin' like this, Ted, and you WILL lose to Beto the next time 'round.
(and yes, folks, there IS going to be "a next time 'round!")
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Okay.....
Here is my take on it. NBF is a polarizing figure in confederate lore, an outstanding general, and yes...... one of the progenitors of the KKK.
I have no problem with what Cruz is saying..... HOWEVER......
Tennessee... How about instead of honoring NBF, why don't you (1) enact legislation protecting the graves and statues of confedrate soldiers against vandalism, and vile SJW monument removal tactics
....and (2) Change NBF Day to Confederate Soldiers Day, honoring the young men (90% which did not own slaves) for their bravery and valor during the WBTS
Agree. btw, this Tennessee law was enacted by a Democrat Legislature and signed by Democrat Governor Buford Ellington. And this was done five years AFTER the 1964 Civil Rights bill was passed. Republicans need to drive home this message and show that Democrats have always been the party of racism in America.
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You don't need to be "woke" to think Nathan Bedford Forrest was a worm.
A worm? Do you know anything about his history during the War Between the States?
To the people of Tennessee, he was no worm, as he was as popular in his time as another legendary son, Davy Crockett.
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(https://www.thealamo.org/assets/b46f5-alamo-vidposter.jpg)
This Texan is forever Grateful to a few Tennesseans that made the ultimate sacrifice for TEXAS, Kentucky and West 'by G_d' Virginia, too. The Republic of Texas would have been delayed a couple of years and probably not happened at all, being directly absorbed into the 'impatient' USA, if not for their Courage and Honor of those brave.
Texas Republic with it's own Constitution.
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(https://www.thealamo.org/assets/b46f5-alamo-vidposter.jpg)
This Texan is forever Grateful to a few Tennesseans that made the ultimate sacrifice for TEXAS, Kentucky and West 'by G_d' Virginia, too. The Republic of Texas would have been delayed a couple of years and probably not happened at all, being directly absorbed into the 'impatient' USA, if not for their Courage and Honor of those brave.
Texas Republic with it's own Constitution.
If The Republic of Texas was delayed a couple of years it still would have existed a couple decades before WV.
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If The Republic of Texas was delayed a couple of years it still would have existed a couple decades before WV.
I knew that when I typed it @InHeavenThereIsNoBeer I also knew someone would probably call me on it. I've met and know people from the West of Virginia and they were always kindred Spirits closer to my G_d than me.
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Less than 50 years after the end of WWII, the partitioning of Germany ended. Over 150 years after the War of Secession, and Virginia remains divided.
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Ted, shut up and go get a shave.
****slapping
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Y'all are jealous of his stubbly beard.
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(https://www.thealamo.org/assets/b46f5-alamo-vidposter.jpg)
This Texan is forever Grateful to a few Tennesseans that made the ultimate sacrifice for TEXAS, Kentucky and West 'by G_d' Virginia, too. The Republic of Texas would have been delayed a couple of years and probably not happened at all, being directly absorbed into the 'impatient' USA, if not for their Courage and Honor of those brave.
Texas Republic with it's own Constitution.
Hear, hear.
I wish to specifically exclude one Tennessean from praise, though. Algore
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Hear, hear.
I wish to specifically exclude one Tennessean from praise, though. Algore
:yowsa:
Owl Gore didn't fall far from the tree at all! His father, Albert Gore Sr. was the guy Armand Hammer pointed to and then to his back pocket. Armand's father Julius was the holder of membership card #0000001 in The Communist Party of the United States.
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Technically, Algore is not from Tennessee. He was born elsewhere.
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Technically, Algore is not from Tennessee. He was born elsewhere.
And attended only the very best boarding schools while living in the luxury suite of a very grand hotel.
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(https://www.thealamo.org/assets/b46f5-alamo-vidposter.jpg)
This Texan is forever Grateful to a few Tennesseans that made the ultimate sacrifice for TEXAS, Kentucky and West 'by G_d' Virginia, too. The Republic of Texas would have been delayed a couple of years and probably not happened at all, being directly absorbed into the 'impatient' USA, if not for their Courage and Honor of those brave.
Texas Republic with it's own Constitution.
Absolutely.
:amen:
The Volunteer state.
For the record, I'm wasn't upset that they have our Oilers, but I was upset that Bud Adams moved them.
Not Tennessee's fault, it's Bud Adams fault.
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I seem to recall that NBF disavowed the KKK after a few years?
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Changing opinion on race (1870s)
After the lynch mob murder of four blacks, arrested for defending themselves at a barbecue, Forrest wrote to Tennessee Governor John C. Brown in August 1874 and "volunteered to help 'exterminate' those men responsible for the continued violence against the blacks", offering "to exterminate the white marauders who disgrace their race by this cowardly murder of Negroes".[124]
On July 5, 1875, Forrest gave a speech before the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association, a post-war organization of black Southerners advocating to improve the economic condition of blacks and to gain equal rights for all citizens. At this, his last public appearance, he made what The New York Times described as a "friendly speech"[172][173] during which, when offered a bouquet of flowers by a young black woman, he accepted them,[174] thanked her and kissed her on the cheek. Forrest spoke in encouragement of black advancement and of endeavoring to be a proponent for espousing peace and harmony between black and white Americans.[175]
In response to the Pole-Bearers speech, the Cavalry Survivors Association of Augusta, the first Confederate organization formed after the war, called a meeting in which Captain F. Edgeworth Eve gave a speech expressing unmitigated disapproval of Forrest's remarks promoting inter-ethnic harmony, ridiculing his faculties and judgment and berating the woman who gave Forrest flowers as "a mulatto wench". The association voted unanimously to amend its constitution to expressly forbid publicly advocating for or hinting at any association of white women and girls as being in the same classes as "females of the negro race".[176][177] The Macon Weekly Telegraph newspaper also condemned Forrest for his speech, describing the event as "the recent disgusting exhibition of himself at the negro [sic] jamboree" and quoting part of a Charlotte Observer article, which read "We have infinitely more respect for Longstreet, who fraternizes with negro men on public occasions, with the pay for the treason to his race in his pocket, than with Forrest and [General] Pillow, who equalize with the negro women, with only 'futures' in payment".[178][179]
Nothing is as simple as people make it out to be huh?
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I'm not going to go too crazy over this.
I'll still support Cruz as our senator.
He's had a history of taking on things that or outside of the mainstream viewpoint, some things that make people uncomfortable, so I chalk this one up to one of those times.
When he agrees with our views, we all say "hooray".
On the occasions when he doesn't, we all say "hmmmmmm..."
More often than not, we are in agreement, but I never expect to be in 100% agreement with any human being, let alone, a politician.
Calling him a RINO is pretty absurd.
This is the guy John McCain called a "Wacko bird", and said that he and his fellow tea party patriots should go back to their hobbit holes.
Anybody that could have made John McCain make a statement like that, is okay in my book.
It helped to show us, once again, who the real RINOs are/were.
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Changing opinion on race (1870s)
After the lynch mob murder of four blacks, arrested for defending themselves at a barbecue, Forrest wrote to Tennessee Governor John C. Brown in August 1874 and "volunteered to help 'exterminate' those men responsible for the continued violence against the blacks", offering "to exterminate the white marauders who disgrace their race by this cowardly murder of Negroes".[124]
On July 5, 1875, Forrest gave a speech before the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association, a post-war organization of black Southerners advocating to improve the economic condition of blacks and to gain equal rights for all citizens. At this, his last public appearance, he made what The New York Times described as a "friendly speech"[172][173] during which, when offered a bouquet of flowers by a young black woman, he accepted them,[174] thanked her and kissed her on the cheek. Forrest spoke in encouragement of black advancement and of endeavoring to be a proponent for espousing peace and harmony between black and white Americans.[175]
In response to the Pole-Bearers speech, the Cavalry Survivors Association of Augusta, the first Confederate organization formed after the war, called a meeting in which Captain F. Edgeworth Eve gave a speech expressing unmitigated disapproval of Forrest's remarks promoting inter-ethnic harmony, ridiculing his faculties and judgment and berating the woman who gave Forrest flowers as "a mulatto wench". The association voted unanimously to amend its constitution to expressly forbid publicly advocating for or hinting at any association of white women and girls as being in the same classes as "females of the negro race".[176][177] The Macon Weekly Telegraph newspaper also condemned Forrest for his speech, describing the event as "the recent disgusting exhibition of himself at the negro [sic] jamboree" and quoting part of a Charlotte Observer article, which read "We have infinitely more respect for Longstreet, who fraternizes with negro men on public occasions, with the pay for the treason to his race in his pocket, than with Forrest and [General] Pillow, who equalize with the negro women, with only 'futures' in payment".[178][179]
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
Thanks for posting. Do you have a link?
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And now for a musical interlude:
Grateful Dead - Tennessee Jed
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7oNS-bDZqc#)
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And now for a musical interlude:
Grateful Dead - Tennessee Jed
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7oNS-bDZqc#)
Baby, won't you carry meeeeeeeeeee..........
Back to Tennessee.
( i knew this without listening to the clip. What do I win?)
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Okay.....
Here is my take on it. NBF is a polarizing figure in confederate lore, an outstanding general, and yes...... one of the progenitors of the KKK.
I have no problem with what Cruz is saying..... HOWEVER......
Tennessee... How about instead of honoring NBF, why don't you (1) enact legislation protecting the graves and statues of confedrate soldiers against vandalism, and vile SJW monument removal tactics
....and (2) Change NBF Day to Confederate Soldiers Day, honoring the young men (90% which did not own slaves) for their bravery and valor during the WBTS
888high58888
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Baby, won't you carry meeeeeeeeeee..........
Back to Tennessee.
( i knew this without listening to the clip. What do I win?)
Tell him what he's won, Don Pardo . . .
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J4HzfGG2PM#)
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Why certainly @Hoodat , he's won a trip to Montgomery in the Rain.
Hank Williams Jr- Montgomery In The Rain
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4CHU4T7h00#)
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@catfish 1957, ed james.... et al:
I have followed the ACW for many years, and actually find NBF to be a fascinating figure. He could be called both smart and brash (thinking of Ft. Donelson here). One thing I would not accuse him of is being smart enough to organize a group like the KKK. Several times I have come across people who insist it was NOT Forrest who invented the Klan ideology, but Robert E. Lee who spoke of having some one to 'take care of THOSE people'. Lee never recognized the North as having morals, brains, decency, or anything of value. Northeners were always 'those people'. I am a bit amazed that any state would have a NBF day. Honoring the men who chose to fight for their side, who gave up the chance to have family and friends, to keep a country together should be the right thing to do. So .... Was Forrest the actual founder of the KKK? Lee always seemed to get what he wanted just because he was Robert E. Lee, a son of Lighthorse Harry.
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@catfish 1957, ed james.... et al:
I have followed the ACW for many years, and actually find NBF to be a fascinating figure. He could be called both smart and brash (thinking of Ft. Donelson here). One thing I would not accuse him of is being smart enough to organize a group like the KKK. Several times I have come across people who insist it was NOT Forrest who invented the Klan ideology, but Robert E. Lee who spoke of having some one to 'take care of THOSE people'. Lee never recognized the North as having morals, brains, decency, or anything of value. Northeners were always 'those people'. I am a bit amazed that any state would have a NBF day. Honoring the men who chose to fight for their side, who gave up the chance to have family and friends, to keep a country together should be the right thing to do. So .... Was Forrest the actual founder of the KKK? Lee always seemed to get what he wanted just because he was Robert E. Lee, a son of Lighthorse Harry.
Why did you bring Robert E. Lee into this??? Them's fighting words. And I am a Texan that has no real allegiance.
The only thing I will say is...NBF wasn't the worst...or the best. (From what I have read) Well, he was a great military commander. happy77
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Technically, Algore is not from Tennessee. He was born elsewhere.
Well, technically Davy Crockett was not born in Tennessee either but that state still considers him a son.
I’d claim Davy for Texas if I could, just like we like to claim old Sam Houston.
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Several times I have come across people who insist it was NOT Forrest who invented the Klan ideology, but Robert E. Lee who spoke of having some one to 'take care of THOSE people'. Lee never recognized the North as having morals, brains, decency, or anything of value.
Pure unadulterated BS.
Now we are in a state of war, which will yield to nothing. The whole South is in a state of revolution…and though I recognize no necessity for this state of things, and would have forborne and pleaded to the end for redress of grievances, real or supposed…I had to meet the question whether I should take part against my native state.
With all my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty of an American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I have, therefore, resigned my commission in the Army, and, save in defense of my native state, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword.
R.E. Lee, 1861
Lee was a surprisingly progressive educator; by employing his lifelong practices in economy, he placed the institution on a sound basis and awakened in his students—many of whom were veterans of the recent war—the desire to rebuild their state with the goal of good citizenship in a nation that in time would become reunited. He died in 1870 at his home at Washington College.
Although history knows him mostly as “the Rebel General,†Lee was a disbeliever in slavery and secession and was devoutly attached to the republic that his father and kinsmen had helped bring into being. He was, moreover, very advanced in his rejection of war as a resolution of political conflicts—a fact that has been almost entirely ignored by posterity. As a U.S. Army colonel in Texas during the secession crises of late 1860, he wrote, “[If] strife and civil war are to take the place of brotherly love and kindness, I shall mourn for my country and for the welfare and progress of mankind.â€
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-E-Lee/Postwar-years-and-position-in-history (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-E-Lee/Postwar-years-and-position-in-history)
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@Weird Tolkienish Figure
Thanks for posting. Do you have a link?
It's in the NBF wikipedia link (amazingly enough):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest
I'm a Yankee through and through and don't really have much patience for the Confederate apologists but NBF is not the simple villian people have made him out to be.
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:yowsa:
Owl Gore didn't fall far from the tree at all! His father, Albert Gore Sr. was the guy Armand Hammer pointed to and then to his back pocket. Armand's father Julius was the holder of membership card #0000001 in The Communist Party of the United States.
@Bigun
Goober Sr was nothing more than a spokescritter for his wife. She was a communist agent that married Goober Sr when he was a high school teacher and she,IIRC,had just graduated from Vanderbilt U with a law degree. You tell ME who had the brains and held the reins in that marriage! She not only brought the brains,she brought the cash and the volunteers he needed to get elected to public office,and may have even bought the votes.
I did have a quote of hers from when she was overheard talking about her husband and son to a friend,and said the father was stupid enough,but the boy bordered on being untrainable.
She also had a brother that became a federal judge in I THINK Kentucky that was removed from the bench after being convicted of corruption a decade or two ago.
But.....,you are correct that it was Armand Hammer that was the leader in that cell. His sister,Goober Sr's wife and Goober Jr's mother,was the handler.
Just like Babs Bush was the brains in the Bush Crime family,and the handler there. Between the Bush Crime Family and the Clinton Crime Family,they had both sides of the Fascist Government Card covered. That's why they were such great pals after Boy Jorge left office.
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And attended only the very best boarding schools while living in the luxury suite of a very grand hotel.
@Bigun
Luckily for him,they were also schools where it would have been impossible for him to fail.
Remember his wedding photos,were newly drafted PRIVATE Al Gore Jr married Tipsy while wearing the dress blue uniform of an Army Officer (it was borrowed) just before going to VN?
IIRC,you can look at the photos and see that there were several prominent Generals attending the wedding,and not a single one of them had anything to say about Goober Jr impersonating a commissioned officer.
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I seem to recall that NBF disavowed the KKK after a few years?
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
He did,but it was after he got old and was no longer active. Once he dropped out the pinheads took over,primarily the "Praise de lawd!" people.
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Nothing is as simple as people make it out to be huh?
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
True,but NOTHING is as righteous as a man or woman of principles that stands by them when the going gets tough.
NBF was such a man,and a hero for all time.
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@Weird Tolkienish Figure
True,but NOTHING is as righteous as a man or woman of principles that stands by them when the going gets tough.
NBF was such a man,and a hero for all time.
I think the substantive history he has confirms this.
On the other hand, there are at least one here who believes him to be a worm, without substantiation of any sort.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,368323.msg2009057.html#msg2009057 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,368323.msg2009057.html#msg2009057)
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I think the substantive history he has confirms this.
On the other hand, there are at least one here who believes him to be a worm, without substantiation of any sort.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,368323.msg2009057.html#msg2009057 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,368323.msg2009057.html#msg2009057)
@IsailedawayfromFR
This is America. There is no law against being a fool as long as you ain't playing in traffic or waving your weenie at wimmins and chil-runs.