The Briefing Room
General Category => Health/Education => Topic started by: mystery-ak on May 03, 2021, 04:29:20 pm
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Are negative vaccine reactions all in your head?
Jazz Shaw May 03, 2021 9:21 AM ET
If you or anyone you know has already received a COVID vaccination you’ve probably heard all of the stories about the side effects that many people report after being jabbed. These vary from minor digestive issues and chills to elevated temperatures and heart rates, with some people even fainting. But are those all medical conditions caused by something in the vaccines or could they be psychosomatic in nature? The latter possibility is being looked at more closely after the CD released the results of a study this week finding that a significant number of people experiencing negative reactions to the vaccine were actually suffering from anxiety at sufficiently high levels to produce a physical response in their bodies. The study looked at patients receiving Johnson & Johnson vaccinations in five states over a one-week period in April. (NBC News)
It was anxiety — and not a problem with the shots — that caused reactions in dozens of people at coronavirus vaccine clinics in five states, U.S. health officials have concluded.
Experts say the clusters detailed Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are an example of a phenomenon that’s been chronicled for decades from a variety of different vaccines. Basically, some people get so freaked out by injections that their anxiety spurs a physical reaction.
“We knew we were going to see this” as mass Covid-19 vaccine clinics were set up around the world, said Dr. Noni MacDonald, a Canadian researcher who has studied similar incidents.
more
https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/05/03/are-negative-vaccine-reactions-all-in-your-head-n387311
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*****rollingeyes***** No *****rollingeyes*****
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No. They're caused by your immune system reacting to a foreign substance in your tissue. That's the point of the vaccine.
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Blaming the victims?
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The reactions are real, especially after the 2nd shot. Can feel like a case of the flu. That's the vaccine illiciting a repsonse from the immune system, as designed, to create anti-bodies.
My wife had a reaction after her second shot.
Some co-workers have been taking sick days after their second shots.
No big whoop. News networks are such drama queens. Axiety and Fear = Ratings. Is there ever news that's not breaking?
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/48890739/in-the-news-today-we-have-a-special-kind-of-stupid.jpg)
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So, a man is talking to his friend, who's a Psychiatrist. The man tells the shrink about a mutual friend, who's been having some serious health problems. After hearing about the symptoms, the Doc says, "It sounds like our friend may have a Psychosomatic illness. Tell him his sickness all in his head."
Several weeks later, the man is again talking with the shrink, and the Doc asks the man, "So, how is Mutual Friend doing these days?"
"I have some bad news. Our friend no longer thinks he's sick, now he thinks he's dead."
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There might be some sort of anxiety effect with some people, but I had two shots of the Moderna, and both times I had side effects/reactions, and I'm not particularly nervous or anxious about the vaccine or COVID-19. Of course, my personal experience doesn't prove a lot, but I don't think this is just all in peoples' heads.
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There might be some sort of anxiety effect with some people, but I had two shots of the Moderna, and both times I had side effects/reactions, and I'm not particularly nervous or anxious about the vaccine or COVID-19. Of course, my personal experience doesn't prove a lot, but I don't think this is just all in peoples' heads.
Welcome to The Briefing Room and thank you for your input. No I don't think the side effects are in people's heads.
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So, a man is talking to his friend, who's a Psychiatrist. The man tells the shrink about a mutual friend, who's been having some serious health problems. After hearing about the symptoms, the Doc says, "It sounds like our friend may have a Psychosomatic illness. Tell him his sickness all in his head."
Several weeks later, the man is again talking with the shrink, and the Doc asks the man, "So, how is Mutual Friend doing these days?"
"I have some bad news. Our friend no longer thinks he's sick, now he thinks he's dead."
:silly:
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Welcome to The Briefing Room and thank you for your input. No I don't think the side effects are in people's heads.
Thank you! I also generally don't think they're in peoples' heads. I'm sure that some people might be so anxious about the vaccine, or the COVID-19, that they might have an anxiety attack, but so many people have had the vaccine that it's to be expected that there will be some small portion that have anxiety attacks. But I don't think that covers all, most, or even a statistically relevant portion of the total number of people.
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No, it was definitely not "all in my head."
I felt fine the entire day after my shot. The reaction took hold in the middle of the night: chills, muscle aches, fatigue, disorientation—and it lasted through most of the following day. It basically described what I've heard others describe as "flu-like symptoms," which I haven't really recalled ever having in my lifetime. It was gone by the next day (this morning), which is typical of what happens when I get sick naturally. The reaction was a little stronger than I was expecting.
I didn't go into this with any sort of anxiety at all, which somewhat surprised me, though having stood back and watched for the past several weeks as the vaccine rolled out, I had a general idea of what to expect and was confident enough to go sign up for it. And yet I still had symptoms from the immune response.
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There is a curious thing I did observe about my side effects and all:
The average time it takes from exposure to COVID in the wild, to a positive test and/or onset of symptoms, is 6 days, even up to two weeks (at least in theory). I experienced vaccine side effects about 12 hours after injection—and those who have spoken about having a reaction to the shot have had similar timeframes of about 12 to 24 hours after injection, lasting about a day afterward. That's a lot faster.
I'm assuming that that's the difference between infection through inhaling or contact and by injecting straight into the bloodstream. It takes days for the virus to incubate in that environment before it reaches a critical mass, theoretically. That would also partially explain why older people are more likely to have the severe reactions to the virus in the wild, but less likely to have a vaccine reaction: they have more ACE2 receptors in the eyes and nose. Whereas the younger person's ACE2 receptors are fewer and thus more hostile to the virus, injecting the vaccine bypasses that mode of protection.
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No, it was definitely not "all in my head."
I felt fine the entire day after my shot. The reaction took hold in the middle of the night: chills, muscle aches, fatigue, disorientation—and it lasted through most of the following day. It basically described what I've heard others describe as "flu-like symptoms," which I haven't really recalled ever having in my lifetime. It was gone by the next day (this morning), which is typical of what happens when I get sick naturally. The reaction was a little stronger than I was expecting.
I didn't go into this with any sort of anxiety at all, which somewhat surprised me, though having stood back and watched for the past several weeks as the vaccine rolled out, I had a general idea of what to expect and was confident enough to go sign up for it. And yet I still had symptoms from the immune response.
Good information. Which vaccine did you get?? Disorientation isn't a flu like symptom that I've ever experienced.
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There is a curious thing I did observe about my side effects and all:
The average time it takes from exposure to COVID in the wild, to a positive test and/or onset of symptoms, is 6 days, even up to two weeks (at least in theory). I experienced vaccine side effects about 12 hours after injection—and those who have spoken about having a reaction to the shot have had similar timeframes of about 12 to 24 hours after injection, lasting about a day afterward. That's a lot faster.
I'm assuming that that's the difference between infection through inhaling or contact and by injecting straight into the bloodstream. It takes days for the virus to incubate in that environment before it reaches a critical mass, theoretically. That would also partially explain why older people are more likely to have the severe reactions to the virus in the wild, but less likely to have a vaccine reaction: they have more ACE2 receptors in the eyes and nose. Whereas the younger person's ACE2 receptors are fewer and thus more hostile to the virus, injecting the vaccine bypasses that mode of protection.
This is my understanding from talking with a doctor.
When you catch a virus in the wild, it starts with a very small infection. Could be as small as a single virus molecule. The virus infects your cells and co-opts the cells' mechanisms to manufacture more virus. The cell then dies, releasing the more virus which then spreads to more cells, etc. It can be awhile before this is is big enough to trigger an immune response large enough for you to notice.
When you get one of these mRNA vaccines, they are giving you a pretty significant dose of messenger RNA encapsulated in a protective lipid. The mRNA tells your cells to produce a protein (or proteins) that are found on the outer shell of the virus. Your cells will manufacture those proteins, but only in the amount triggered by the initial dosage (mRNA vaccines do not modify your DNA, despite what some of the anti-vax crowd says), and after that no more is made. So they have to give you a significant enough dosage to trigger enough proteins to be made to trigger an appropriate immune response. Same thing applies for non mRNA vaccines, although with those there is no intermediary step where your cells manufacture proteins.
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Blaming the victims?
Of course. This is the refuge of shitty medical practitioners everywhere. Blame the patient.
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Good information. Which vaccine did you get?? Disorientation isn't a flu like symptom that I've ever experienced.
Johnson and Johnson. It was mild; I was still able to drive without any issue, for example. But if I sat down for a prolonged period of time, I might have gotten a little dizzy and/or lightheaded standing up and walking across the room—nothing where I'd pass out or anything like that. Or if I was moving around and then sat down to rest, I'd feel weird. It happened a couple of times during that period.
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Johnson and Johnson. It was mild; I was still able to drive without any issue, for example. But if I sat down for a prolonged period of time, I might have gotten a little dizzy and/or lightheaded standing up and walking across the room—nothing where I'd pass out or anything like that. Or if I was moving around and then sat down to rest, I'd feel weird. It happened a couple of times during that period.
Have you grown any extra limbs yet? After my 12th dose, I'm starting to see what looks like an additional eye forming on my right shoulder.
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Have you grown any extra limbs yet? After my 12th dose, I'm starting to see what looks like an additional eye forming on my right shoulder.
Well, there's this baby's arm holding an apple, but that's another issue altogether.
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Have you grown any extra limbs yet? After my 12th dose, I'm starting to see what looks like an additional eye forming on my right shoulder.
Better not touch that! It's a Sockeye. :terror:
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Well, there's this baby's arm holding an apple, but that's another issue altogether.
Hmmm, maybe I should switch over to J&J then.
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Of course not. One week to the day after my wife had her second Moderna injection she woke up in the night with horrible itching and when we turned on the light her left arm where she was injected was all a flame with rash also it spread to her back and front lasting for several days, all this considering she had just the typical redness and soreness with the first injection. But from what I read this is not an unusual occurrence and was relatively short lived, though the first thought we both had was Shingles.
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FWIW (from Gab) (https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/073/064/882/original/a170b5155833e0ea.jpeg)
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Take the VAERS reports with a certain grain of salt: there has never been this many of one vaccine distributed, at once, like this. So, yeah, in terms of raw numbers, it'll look high, but when you're giving that many shots, is it any more than the average for other vaccines?
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Take the VAERS reports with a certain grain of salt: there has never been this many of one vaccine distributed, at once, like this. So, yeah, in terms of raw numbers, it'll look high, but when you're giving that many shots, is it any more than the average for other vaccines?
Valid point. I don't have the numbers, and VAERS is backlogged, so it is difficult to compare in terms of rates.
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Take the VAERS reports with a certain grain of salt: there has never been this many of one vaccine distributed, at once, like this. So, yeah, in terms of raw numbers, it'll look high, but when you're giving that many shots, is it any more than the average for other vaccines?
VAERS reports are raw data, reports of "adverse events" of wide ranging types and severity that happened after vaccination. After investigation, some will be judged unrelated to the vaccines. Anyone citing VAERS reports raw numbers as proving anything, at best, doesn't understand the database (s)he is citing. I think there are some anti-vaxxers who do understand what the DB is and are knowingly and intentionally deceptive.
As the saying goes, "A text out of context is a pretext." As of yesterday morning's numbers, more than 147.5 million Americans (>56.3% of the US population who are allowed to receive one of the vaccines!) have received at least one vaccine dose, of whom more than 105.5 million are fully vaccinated. VAERS reports numbers have to be understood in that context.
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VAERS reports are raw data, reports of "adverse events" of wide ranging types and severity that happened after vaccination. After investigation, some will be judged unrelated to the vaccines. Anyone citing VAERS reports raw numbers as proving anything, at best, doesn't understand the database (s)he is citing. I think there are some anti-vaxxers who do understand what the DB is and are knowingly and intentionally deceptive.
As the saying goes, "A text out of context is a pretext." As of yesterday morning's numbers, more than 147.5 million Americans (>56.3% of the US population who are allowed to receive one of the vaccines!) have received at least one vaccine dose, of whom more than 105.5 million are fully vaccinated. VAERS reports numbers have to be understood in that context.
Berenson is a boob.
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Whatever the source of the fear, it is having a definite effect on getting the shot:
(https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/073/287/630/original/de23dfd84d58ab51.jpeg)
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@Skull
I had to resize your posted image. Here's how you do that:
This the line of your post for the image...
[ img width=600]https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/073/287/630/original/de23dfd84d58ab51.jpeg[/img]
Note I added the "width=600" to the IMG command.
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Biden said today that those who won't vaccine are murderers.
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Berenson is a boob.
You could have added, "And a NYT reporter," though that might be somewhat repetitive and redundant. ****drummer
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@Skull
I had to resize your posted image. Here's how you do that:
This the line of your post for the image...
[ img width=600]https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/073/287/630/original/de23dfd84d58ab51.jpeg[/img]
Note I added the "width=600" to the IMG command.
Many thanks, glad to know that - will use width=600 or 400 for any big images.
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You could have added, "And a NYT reporter," though that might be somewhat repetitive and redundant. ****drummer
Former NYT reporter.
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Many thanks, glad to know that - will use width=600 or 400 for any big images.
FYI, you could use height= too... So long as you use one or the other, aspect is preserved. If you use both, you are on your own.
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FYI, you could use height= too... So long as you use one or the other, aspect is preserved. If you use both, you are on your own.
(https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/Smileys/sarcasmics/batteriie.gif)
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Whatever the source of the fear, it is having a definite effect on getting the shot:
(https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/073/287/630/original/de23dfd84d58ab51.jpeg)
Consider a significant number of the "I'll get it right away crowd" already have, so there will be a shift in the populations. There will be the same number of "I'll never get it" folks, and the doubting Thomases will not change a lot, except to either get the vaccine or declare they will not. So the population of people who have not yet recieved the vaccine will be expected to see those proportion changes within samples.
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(https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/Smileys/sarcasmics/batteriie.gif)
Who needs lockdowns? You could have flattened the curves right there (or maybe just squashed the percussion section).
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(https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/Smileys/sarcasmics/batteriie.gif)
That's almost as fun as the bug zapper. 888high58888
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That's almost as fun as the bug zapper. 888high58888
:beer: ALmost...bug zappers are hard to beat.
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So that's what a gif on the windshield looks like...
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:beer: ALmost...bug zappers are hard to beat.
I get a new one this year... my last one caught a little woodpecker... that was quite the show, I bet...
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I get a new one this year... my last one caught a little woodpecker... that was quite the show, I bet...
I imagine, but burnt feathers are not my favorite aroma... :shrug:
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Consider a significant number of the "I'll get it right away crowd" already have, so there will be a shift in the populations. There will be the same number of "I'll never get it" folks, and the doubting Thomases will not change a lot, except to either get the vaccine or declare they will not. So the population of people who have not yet recieved the vaccine will be expected to see those proportion changes within samples.
By not including an, "Already Got It," line the graph deceptively magnifies the significance of the "Won'ts". Whether intentionally or carelessly, :shrug: .
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By not including an, "Already Got It," line the graph deceptively magnifies the significance of the "Won'ts". Whether intentionally or carelessly, :shrug: .
Lies, damn lies, and statistics...
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Another way to look at the popularity, nation by nation:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/covid-19-vaccine-doses-whos-got-at-least-one/ (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/covid-19-vaccine-doses-whos-got-at-least-one/)
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Another way to look at the popularity, nation by nation:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/covid-19-vaccine-doses-whos-got-at-least-one/ (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/covid-19-vaccine-doses-whos-got-at-least-one/)
This is updated more or less daily, https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations , as is this, https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations . The latter lets the user select or deselect countries to allow comparisons and lets one see historical info.
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Another way to look at the popularity, nation by nation:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/covid-19-vaccine-doses-whos-got-at-least-one/ (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/covid-19-vaccine-doses-whos-got-at-least-one/)
So, where is China on that?
:pondering:
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So, where is China on that?
:pondering:
In the version of that chart I linked, China can be selected, but no data is charted. That suggests to me that either China isn't providing the information, or the OurWorldInData people think the data China has released is not credible.
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In the version of that chart I linked, China can be selected, but no data is charted. That suggests to me that either China isn't providing the information, or the OurWorldInData people think the data China has released is not credible.
Look again. China can't be selected. :pondering: It isn't listed in the table, either.
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Look again. China can't be selected. :pondering: It isn't listed in the table, either.
In the version of the chart that I linked, https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations , China is in the list of possible selections and can be selected. But it is in lighter type and when selected no data is plotted on the chart. I went through that process ~50 minutes ago, and I just went through it again.
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In the version of the chart that I linked, https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations , China is in the list of possible selections and can be selected. But it is in lighter type and when selected no data is plotted on the chart. I went through that process ~50 minutes ago, and I just went through it again.
Oh, OK, I used this link https://www.visualcapitalist.com/covid-19-vaccine-doses-whos-got-at-least-one/ (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/covid-19-vaccine-doses-whos-got-at-least-one/) and it isn't there.
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Bloomberg just gives total shots given, in China & around the world, at least what a cursory look at their data says:
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/ (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/)
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Bloomberg just gives total shots given, in China & around the world, at least what a cursory look at their data says:
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/ (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/)
So, China has injected ~285 million doses. Given that two Chinese pharmaceuticals companies have produced vaccines that are approved (Sinovac and Sinopharm), two others that are well along in testing (CanSino and Clover), and Fosun Pharma in partnership with BioNTech have submitted test data for the BioNTech (Pfizer) vaccine, China's low vaccination rate is surprisingly low. Maybe they should sell less to other countries and use more with their own citizens.
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So, China has injected ~285 million doses. Given that two Chinese pharmaceuticals companies have produced vaccines that are approved (Sinovac and Sinopharm), two others that are well along in testing (CanSino and Clover), and Fosun Pharma in partnership with BioNTech have submitted test data for the BioNTech (Pfizer) vaccine, China's low vaccination rate is surprisingly low. Maybe they should sell less to other countries and use more with their own citizens.
Yeah, and maybe they should stop persecuting Uighers, aborting the female babies, stealing intellectual property, polluting the environment, selling illegal fentanyl into the US, and generally behaving like an evil empire. I won't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
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So, China has injected ~285 million doses. Given that two Chinese pharmaceuticals companies have produced vaccines that are approved (Sinovac and Sinopharm), two others that are well along in testing (CanSino and Clover), and Fosun Pharma in partnership with BioNTech have submitted test data for the BioNTech (Pfizer) vaccine, China's low vaccination rate is surprisingly low. Maybe they should sell less to other countries and use more with their own citizens.
@PeteS in CA I know that you had a very bad experience with Covid-19. Do you know what your Vitamin D blood serum levels were when all that happened. That is do you know if you were low, mid range or something else?
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285 million doses, 1.398 billion population...
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@PeteS in CA I know that you had a very bad experience with Covid-19. Do you know what your Vitamin D blood serum levels were when all that happened. That is do you know if you were low, mid range or something else?
I don't know the numbers, but have been taking D3 supplements for years and my cardiologists have been monitoring it for as long. Thanks for asking. Vitamin D is important in many ways.
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I don't know the numbers, but have been taking D3 supplements for years and my cardiologists have been monitoring it for as long. Thanks for asking. Vitamin D is important in many ways.
Then it sounds like it is unlikely you were deficient. It is claimed that a large percentage of people who have had a serious response to Covid were also deficient in Vitamin D. But it wasn't true in your case.