The Briefing Room
General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => Energy => Topic started by: Elderberry on October 10, 2018, 12:43:52 pm
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Washington Examiner by John Siciliano | October 09, 2018
President Trump will likely find himself in court over his Tuesday night decision to allow 15-percent ethanol fuel be sold year-round across the nation, according to the refinery industry's top lobbyist.
“The President’s proposal to waive the rules for E15 is unlawful and could actually make the problems of the Renewable Fuel Standard worse," Chet Thompson, president and CEO of the American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers, said in a statement.
A spokeswoman for the refinery group told the Washington Examiner that it is "likely" the group will sue the administration for going ahead with the plan.
"Yes, it’s likely," said spokeswoman Ericka Perryman. She pointed out that Thompson had made clear earlier in an interview with Reuters that legal action is the only definite thing to come from Trump's action. “The only certainty from today’s actions is a lawsuit,†he said.
More: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy/oil-refiners-threaten-to-sue-trump-over-ethanol (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy/oil-refiners-threaten-to-sue-trump-over-ethanol)
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In boon for farmers, Trump lifts restrictions on ethanol
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,335805.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,335805.0.html)
The Trump administration is moving to allow year-round sales of gasoline with higher blends of ethanol, a boon for Iowa and other farm states that have pushed for greater sales of the corn-based fuel.
President Donald Trump announced he is lifting a federal ban on summer sales of high-ethanol blends during a trip to Iowa on Tuesday.
"Today we are unleashing the power of E15 to fuel our country all year long," Trump said at a campaign rally, referring to gasoline blends with up to 15 percent ethanol.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/article/In-boon-for-farmers-Trump-lifting-restrictions-13291804.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/article/In-boon-for-farmers-Trump-lifting-restrictions-13291804.php)
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(http://exxonmobilperspectives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/E15_table2_03-2015-784x588.jpg)
http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2015/03/02/e15-this-chart-kind-of-says-it-all/ (http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2015/03/02/e15-this-chart-kind-of-says-it-all/)
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Gasoline - Not Corn Alcohol - Belongs In Our Fuel Tanks
https://www.ipi.org/ipi_issues/detail/gasoline-not-corn-alcohol-belongs-in-our-fuel-tanks (https://www.ipi.org/ipi_issues/detail/gasoline-not-corn-alcohol-belongs-in-our-fuel-tanks)
President Donald Trump frequently boasts of his success in rolling back costly and harmful regulations. Let's hope that effort includes the renewable fuel standard (RFS).
The RFS is the latest phase in Congress's decades-long support for the ethanol industry. The problem is that support has outlived its usefulness.
When U.S. crude oil production began to decline in the mid-1970s and Middle Eastern countries began restricting oil exports to punish the U.S. for its pro-Israel policies, Congress decided to act.
It began subsidizing ethanol, a mostly corn-based renewable fuel that is blended into gasoline. The goal was to reduce U.S. dependence on imported oil while creating a sustainable and more environmentally friendly alternative to gasoline.
But Congress took a different approach in 2005 when it passed the Energy Policy Act, which created the renewable fuel standard. The new law mandated that 4 billion gallons of ethanol be mixed into gasoline beginning in 2006.
Then Congress vastly expanded the mandate in 2007 when it passed the Energy Independence and Security Act, which required a minimum of 36 billion gallons of ethanol to be mixed into gasoline by 2022.
While that expansion may have seemed reasonable a decade ago, it no longer does.
The primary reason is that the RFS mandate was created just when the U.S. fracking boom was taking off.
Innovative drilling techniques have allowed the U.S. to become the world's leading crude oil and natural gas producer. Oil production is high and prices are low.
By contrast, the ethanol mandate has pushed corn prices up by at least a third -- and often much higher -- since 2005.
The U.S. has become a net exporter of natural gas, and we could become a net crude oil exporter within five to 10 years.
Energy independence, which means energy security, is just around the corner. Thus the justification for mandating ethanol usage has largely vanished and may even be counterproductive.
Second, the environmental friendliness of ethanol is being reconsidered. Many environmental groups now realize that planting, growing and harvesting corn -- about 40 percent of U.S. field corn becomes ethanol -- takes large amounts of energy and water. And then the corn must be shipped to a processing plant and an oil refinery to mix in with the gasoline.
Another pressing problem is that more and more ethanol must be blended into gasoline every year. But gasoline usage has leveled off, which means that to meet the mandated ethanol goal the blend will have to rise from the current 10 percent to 15 percent or more.
And then there's the refiners' challenge. Philadelphia Energy Solutions, the largest refinery on the East Coast, recently filed for bankruptcy, blaming the RFS.
Refiners that don't meet their goal of mixing ethanol have to buy a type of credit, known as RINs, which can be very costly.
The management consulting company McKinsey & Co. recently reported that the credits translated into an additional cost of up to $4 barrel. For example, Valero Energy has projected annual spend on RINs in 2016 could total $850 million." That ain't chump change!
RINs represent government at its worst. They redistribute huge amounts of money without producing one drop of useable fuel.
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I hope they win the lawsuit. We will be spared E15 and the GOP will be off the hook.
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(http://exxonmobilperspectives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/E15_table2_03-2015-784x588.jpg)
http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2015/03/02/e15-this-chart-kind-of-says-it-all/ (http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2015/03/02/e15-this-chart-kind-of-says-it-all/)
I recall some Chrysler flex-fuel vehicles so I'm doubting that table.
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The Trump administration is moving to allow year-round sales of gasoline with higher blends of ethanol...
Allowing is just fine with me! When nobody buys the crap maybe it will just go away! I wish he would allow the sale of gas without ANY ethanol and let the market decide what they want!
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In boon for farmers, Trump lifts restrictions on ethanol
But destructive to everyone else.
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President GW Bush started the ethanol program even at the dissent of Republicans at that time.
https://csnews.com/president-bush-enlists-ethanol
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I recall some Chrysler flex-fuel vehicles so I'm doubting that table.
Yes Chrysler has many flex-fuel models. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicles_in_the_United_States#List_of_currently_produced_flexible-fuel_vehicles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicles_in_the_United_States#List_of_currently_produced_flexible-fuel_vehicles)
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We have a local station that has a pump of non ethanol 93 octane. I run it on all my weedwackers, lawnmowers, old farm tractor etc
You can clearly hear and feel the difference over ethanol gas and I get way more hours per hour from non ethanol in my older farm tractor.
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I recall some Chrysler flex-fuel vehicles so I'm doubting that table.
Read the description under the title. Non-flex fuel vehicles.
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Allowing is just fine with me! When nobody buys the crap maybe it will just go away! I wish he would allow the sale of gas without ANY ethanol and let the market decide what they want!
This would be to replace the E10 that many have no choice to buy otherwise with E15.
There are no non-ethanol gasoline retail pumps in non-attainment areas like Houston.
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This would be to replace the E10 that many have no choice to buy otherwise with E15.
There are no non-ethanol gasoline retail pumps in non-attainment areas like Houston.
I know there are currently none but that does not mean there shouldn't be any!
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Seems like the EPA should join in on the lawsuit.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,327339.msg1760553.html#msg1760553 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,327339.msg1760553.html#msg1760553)
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There are no non-ethanol gasoline retail pumps in non-attainment areas like Houston.
I saw on the ethanol-free list that there is a station in Alvin, but they only fill portable tanks for boats and such. They will Not fill an automobile.
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I know there are currently none but that does not mean there shouldn't be any!
But you said "when nobody buys...". We don't have a choice not to buy in these areas.
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Ethanol is a boondoggle.
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But you said "when nobody buys...". We don't have a choice not to buy in these areas.
Did you read what I said? IF they had a choice, very few would buy gasoline watered down with ethanol!
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Ethanol is a boondoggle.
Yup! Always has been!
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Ethanol is a boondoggle.
It is far more than that.
It is a political move and some can even argue it is an evil move as one is taking food out of the mouths of a hungry world.
God gave this earth plenty of fuel in the form of hydrocarbons to heat our houses and fuel out engines. And it is better suited for that purpose than is ethanol.
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And this is why I hate farmers. They are all corrupt to the core and a bunch of welfare queens.
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It is far more than that.
It is a political move and some can even argue it is an evil move as one is taking food out of the mouths of a hungry world.
God gave this earth plenty of fuel in the form of hydrocarbons to heat our houses and fuel out engines. And it is better suited for that purpose than is ethanol.
And that doesn't even begin to cover it all. Ethanol can be made from things other than food grains and, in some cases, far less expensively.
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So, what is the big surprise. One of the very first promises Trump made was in Iowa during the primaries where he said he'd use the full power of the EPA to enforce the ethanol mandate and increse it, if he could.
That's when I decided that I was in support of Cruz, who had the guts to stand up to the Farm Lobby there and say he'd let the Market decide, then sold the idea to the farmers.
It was the Governor of Iowa who had schmoozed with Trump who said Cruz needed to be defeated, whatever it took, and despite Cruz winning the Caucus, the smears really started after that. The Governor's son was at the time a lobbyist for the ethanol lobby.
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So, what is the big surprise. One of the very first promises Trump made was in Iowa during the primaries where he said he'd use the full power of the EPA to enforce the ethanol mandate and increse it, if he could.
That's when I decided that I was in support of Cruz, who had the guts to stand up to the Farm Lobby there and say he'd let the Market decide, then sold the idea to the farmers.
Never forget this. Never forget.
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Let the market decide. <Don't do that>. Cruz was better on this issue than Trump no doubt.
But now we have Democrats who will completely scrap the capitalist system if given the chance. No need to forget that fact.
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Let the market decide. <Don't do that>. Cruz was better on this issue than Trump no doubt.
But now we have Democrats who will completely scrap the capitalist system if given the chance. No need to forget that fact.
Oh, I haven't forgotten--and all in the name of a process that will go down as one of the greatest scientific black eyes since Piltdown Man.
But that's no reason to join them in their pursuit of government controls, and 15% ethanol will eff up every engine I have. Thankfully, for a mere 60 cents more a gallon, I can get enough non ethanol fuel to blend in and reduce the ethanol content back to less than 10%. (So why is it more expensive to get fuel without ethanol, when ethanol blending and shipment are so damned expensive to begin with. Charging more to NOT put that garbage in the fuel seems counterintuitive (a fancy word for bassackwards).
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Oh, I haven't forgotten--and all in the name of a process that will go down as one of the greatest scientific black eyes since Piltdown Man.
But that's no reason to join them in their pursuit of government controls, and 15% ethanol will eff up every engine I have. Thankfully, for a mere 60 cents more a gallon, I can get enough non ethanol fuel to blend in and reduce the ethanol content back to less than 10%. (So why is it more expensive to get fuel without ethanol, when ethanol blending and shipment are so damned expensive to begin with. Charging more to NOT put that garbage in the fuel seems counterintuitive (a fancy word for bassackwards).
Bassackwards on so many fronts it's hard to know where to start but this is the biggie for me.
If ALL inputs are considered, it takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn ethanol!
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President Trump will likely find himself in court over his Tuesday night decision to allow 15-percent ethanol fuel be sold year-round across the nation, according to the refinery industry's top lobbyist.
Very bad Mr President. 15% will kill all my small engines. You will be hearing from me on this issue.
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Never forget this. Never forget.
I hadn't.
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Bassackwards on so many fronts it's hard to know where to start but this is the biggie for me.
If ALL inputs are considered, it takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn ethanol!
But . . . but we'll make it up in volume.
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I think I may have an extra '70 Pontiac 350 engine around here somewhere. Think I'll drop it in my 2008 Ford and start buying leaded gas from the supplier around the corner. Strictly for racing of course.
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I think I may have an extra '70 Pontiac 350 engine around here somewhere. Think I'll drop it in my 2008 Ford and start buying leaded gas from the supplier around the corner. Strictly for racing of course.
Lead pipes for water. Lead gas for burning. This explains a lot about your mental stability. You decorate your birthday cakes with mercury too?
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Lead pipes for water. Lead gas for burning. This explains a lot about your mental stability. You decorate your birthday cakes with mercury too?
Sure, I make the candles with mercury to get a pretty red glow when they're lit.
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Sure, I make the candles with mercury to get a pretty red glow when they're lit.
I didn't know mercury burns. Upon reflection I am glad I don't know that.
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I didn't know mercury burns. Upon reflection I am glad I don't know that.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spcm44ZYSa4#)
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! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spcm44ZYSa4#)
I don't know if my Google Southern Translator is on the fritz but the word "glow" up our way where we speak English doesn't mean an explosion.
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I don't know if my Google Southern Translator is on the fritz but the word "glow" up our way where we speak English doesn't mean an explosion.
You just gotta know how to mix it right.
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You just gotta know how to mix it right.
What's that? 1 part Hg to 5 gallons jet fuel?
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What's that? 1 part Hg to 5 gallons jet fuel?
Gotta have something to slow down the mercury explosion, and you know how hard it is to get jet fuel to burn.
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Nothing is hotter than a chick talking chemistry. Any comments on the Arrhenius equation will put me over the edge here.