The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on February 17, 2018, 09:11:08 pm
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Top GOP donor: 'I will not write another check' until candidates support assault weapons ban
By Max Greenwood - 02/17/18 03:33 PM EST
A top GOP donor in Florida is threatening to withhold contributions to candidates and political groups that do not get behind a ban on assault weapons, The New York Times reported.
In an email to half a dozen Republican leaders on Saturday, Florida-based real estate developer Al Hoffman Jr. decried the rash of mass shootings that has roiled the U.S. for years, and demanded that GOP politicians take action.
"I will not write another check unless they all support a ban on assault weapons," Hoffman wrote in the email, according to the Times. "Enough is enough!"
Among those who received the email were Florida Gov. Rick Scott and former Gov. Jeb Bush.
more
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/374393-top-gop-donor-i-will-not-write-another-check-until-candidates-support (http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/374393-top-gop-donor-i-will-not-write-another-check-until-candidates-support)
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Dear Al, what the hell is an assault weapon?
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Dear Al, what the hell is an assault weapon?
I'll bet nobody has the guts to ask him that.
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You all, I’m seriously (and obviously) gun ignorant and trying to educate myself. I grew up around them and believe in having them in the home. But I was always reading and only did target practice a few times with my dad. My sister lived out on the farm road and kept a sawed off shotgun under her bed for protection. My dad went hunting, but I was a “girl†so never went.
I know the AR15 looks “scaryâ€, but why is it so popular? Is it faster than other rifles? I’ve been reading about it not being as “high powered†as other long guns. Why does everyone buy them?
And please, I don’t want to ask you all to do my research ;). If you have links you could share, I’m happy to read on my own.
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You all, I’m seriously (and obviously) gun ignorant and trying to educate myself. I grew up around them and believe in having them in the home. But I was always reading and only did target practice a few times with my dad. My sister lived out on the farm road and kept a sawed off shotgun under her bed for protection. My dad went hunting, but I was a “girl†so never went.
I know the AR15 looks “scaryâ€, but why is it so popular? Is it faster than other rifles? I’ve been reading about it not being as “high powered†as other long guns. Why does everyone buy them?
And please, I don’t want to ask you all to do my research ;). If you have links you could share, I’m happy to read on my own.
A lot of folks like the ammo (.223) because it delivers a decent punch with little recoil, making subsequent shots better in terms of aim. There are other good, practical reasons, we have an entire sub-category about shooting. @txradioguy could give you a really good explanation.
Here's his sub-category "Shooting Sports":
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/board,53.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/board,53.0.html)
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A lot of folks like the ammo (.223) because it delivers a decent punch with little recoil, making subsequent shots better in terms of aim. There are other good, practical reasons, we have an entire sub-category about shooting. @txradioguy could give you a really good explanation.
Here's his sub-category "Shooting Sports":
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/board,53.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/board,53.0.html)
Thank you!!!!!!!
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Dear Al, what the hell is an assault weapon?
Dear Al......who are you again? I never heard of you and I don't think I want to.
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Dear Al......who are you again? I never heard of you and I don't think I want to.
According to Google, he raised money for GWB and cheerfully accepted a plum Ambassador gig in Portugal for his troubles. Apparently he thinks that gives him the moral authority to dictate policy to politicians. You're right, he's not the kind of slime mold you would be interested in knowing, he's a step below your average tenant.
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Dear Al......who are you again? I never heard of you and I don't think I want to.
He's the guy with the money to get what he wants.
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According to Google, he raised money for GWB and cheerfully accepted a plum Ambassador gig in Portugal for his troubles. Apparently he thinks that gives him the moral authority to dictate policy to politicians. You're right, he's not the kind of slime mold you would be interested in knowing, he's a step below your average tenant.
I figured all the Bushies were sending their money to Rats now.
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I figured all the Bushies were sending their money to Rats now.
My little synopsis doesn't contradict that. This guy's plum gig was during Shrub's term, and that was a long time ago. He still carries the "Ambassador" honorific.
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I think he's an acquaintance of the Jebster of the house of shrubbery too.
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I think he's an acquaintance of the Jebster of the house of shrubbery too.
He'd have to be. I daresay big Al is one of the reasons Jebbie had so much money to flush down the toilet. If I were this guy I'd stop giving money to Republicans too, he's been getting a crap-lousy ROI.
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Dear Al, what the hell is an assault weapon?
Sad thing is this guy has no clue.
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A lot of folks like the ammo (.223) because it delivers a decent punch with little recoil, making subsequent shots better in terms of aim. There are other good, practical reasons, we have an entire sub-category about shooting. @txradioguy could give you a really good explanation.
Here's his sub-category "Shooting Sports":
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/board,53.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/board,53.0.html)
@Cyber Liberty thanks for the plug.
We're a friendly little Pro 2A corner of TBR :beer:
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You all, I’m seriously (and obviously) gun ignorant and trying to educate myself. I grew up around them and believe in having them in the home. But I was always reading and only did target practice a few times with my dad. My sister lived out on the farm road and kept a sawed off shotgun under her bed for protection. My dad went hunting, but I was a “girl†so never went.
I know the AR15 looks “scaryâ€, but why is it so popular? Is it faster than other rifles? I’ve been reading about it not being as “high powered†as other long guns. Why does everyone buy them?
And please, I don’t want to ask you all to do my research ;). If you have links you could share, I’m happy to read on my own.
The AR platform is very simple the operate, has low recoil, is easily customizable, and accurate. The smaller caliber ammo is light, so more can be carried. The ballistic performance inside 200M is more than good enough to cause massive wounds and death. It’s not as high-powered as 7.62, but it’s more controllable in full auto fire for suppression. There’s always a trade off in any weapon.
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The AR platform is very simple the operate, has low recoil, is easily customizable, and accurate. The smaller caliber ammo is light, so more can be carried. The ballistic performance inside 200M is more than good enough to cause massive wounds and death. It’s not as high-powered as 7.62, but it’s more controllable in full auto fire for suppression. There’s always a trade off in any weapon.
Thanks for the explanation!
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Here's what I found on his bio. Pretty well sums up that this big GOP donor has been against conservatism for some time, so we will not lose out much.
Hoffman served as co-chair of George W. Bush's 2000 campaign for president, and also served as finance chair of the Republican National Committee and the chairman of Florida Governor Jeb Bush's re-election campaign. Hoffman fundraised for John McCain's 2008 candidacy and Mitt Romney's 2012 candidacy. Hoffman donated $1 million to Right to Rise, a Super PAC supporting Jeb Bush's 2016 presidential candidacy. Hoffman served as chairman of Marco Rubio's successful 2010 Senate candidacy, but tried to dissuade Rubio from running for president in 2016.
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Good that means Jeb is done.
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I can assault you with a baseball bat, a rock, my purse (:whistle:) or even a salami roll!
Are they next? :shrug:
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Among those who received the email were Florida Gov. Rick Scott and former Gov. Jeb Bush.
more
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/374393-top-gop-donor-i-will-not-write-another-check-until-candidates-support (http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/374393-top-gop-donor-i-will-not-write-another-check-until-candidates-support)
Don't know about Scott,but JEBBY would get so excited over that he'd get the vapors.
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Dear Al, what the hell is an assault weapon?
Okay, I’ll play along in the role of Captain Obvious.
An “assault weapon†is a term of art used in politics. It’s purpose is to convey the nefarious intent of this particular inanimate object, as opposed to, say, a pistol that a policeman might carry. That weapon (in reality having greater stopping power than the assault weapon under discussion) would instead be referred to as the friendlier sounding, indeed, the benevolent sounding peace keeper or side arm, or perhaps service revolver (before being replaced by semi automatics in most departments).
The method is simple, yet effective: demonize the tool you as a politician wish to ban, convince voters that this tool is only used for one purpose, to kill innocent bystanders (an assault), and voilà , pollsters can then document that the people agree with you! After all, no one, not even voters, would ever want to be “assaulted.â€
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You all, I’m seriously (and obviously) gun ignorant and trying to educate myself. I grew up around them and believe in having them in the home. But I was always reading and only did target practice a few times with my dad. My sister lived out on the farm road and kept a sawed off shotgun under her bed for protection. My dad went hunting, but I was a “girl†so never went.
I know the AR15 looks “scaryâ€, but why is it so popular?
To answer your first question first,WHY do you think it looks scary? Is it because that is the adjective the media automatically attaches to any sentence with the word "AR-15" in it? I think it's funny people are saying that because I was in the army when they were new to the army,and almost nobody liked them because everybody was saying they look like toys and the bullets are too light and small. It was often refereed to as "Made by Mattel",the toy company. Now,thanks to a media devoted to sensationalism,it's "scary looking".
As for why it's so popular,that beats the hell out of me. I can only guess it's because the military uses them and all the heroes in the movies carry and shoot them. Or more correctly,the military version that looks like the AR-15. The .223/5.56mm round it shoots is pretty useless for hunting and like all other rifle rounds over-penetrates too much for self-defense. It mostly good for target shooting in the military rifle classes because it looks like a military rifle and shoots the same ammunition.
Seems like a lot of veterans also like to have one because they look like the rifles they carried while in the US military. They mostly have them to have them.
Is it faster than other rifles?
If you mean "does it shoot faster than other rifles?",the answer is "It shoots faster than some,but no faster than any other semi-automatic rifle,and nowhere near as quickly as an actual military rifle. It's semi-automatic,which means you have to pull a trigger each time to get it to shoot. The "faster" military rifles have a fire selector switch on them that allows them to shoot like a machine gun,where you just pull the trigger and hold it back,and the rilfe will shoot until it runs out of ammunition.
The AR-15 just LOOKS like a military rifle. It's not an actual military rifle.
I’ve been reading about it not being as “high powered†as other long guns.
It's not.
Why does everyone buy them?
Answered above,but keep in mind that people (NOT "everyone") have a legal RIGHT to buy and own one,so they don't need a reason other than "I want one ." The rifle itself is nothing more than an inert object.No more harmful than your sneakers. It has no mind of it's own and no will of it's own. It is completely harmless. It's SOME people that are dangerous,and because of that, people who are NOT dangerous often wish to arm themselves so they can defend themselves and their families against attack by the criminals and the loons.
The TRUTH is that probably 90 percent of the dangerous people walking around free today would be and SHOULD be locked away in mental institutions,like they were prior to LBJ's "Great Society" decided it was more humane to just turn them loose to wander the streets,live in dumpsters,and murder innocent people. There were damn few gun laws BEFORE that nonsense emptied the mental hospitals because there were no reasons to have them. For almost 200 years any citizen running around free could buy a rifle,pistol,revolver,or shotgun by mail order,and did,and no one had a problem with it. Sears and Roebuck used to sell handguns,rifles,and shotguns through their catalogue,as well as their stores,for example.
No gun laws and no background checks were needed until the Dims emptied the mental institutions and left the nutcases to wander around freely. The Florida shooter is a perfect example of this. They knew he was nuts,but couldn't have him committed to a mental institution until AFTER he committed a crime. Now he will spend the rest of his life in lockup waiting to die,and it only took 17 + innocent murder victims to accomplish what would have been automatic prior to the 1960's.
Ain't "progress" and "being a progressive Dim" GREAT!
And please, I don’t want to ask you all to do my research ;). If you have links you could share, I’m happy to read on my own.
Search using the keywords "LBJ and the Great Society." There are many,many others,but that's where is all began.
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Dear Al, what the hell is an assault weapon?
@mountaineer
A butter knife or a shoe if you attack someone with it. Even your fist is an assault weapon.
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I can assault you with a baseball bat, a rock, my purse (:whistle:) or even a salami roll!
Are they next? :shrug:
@mrclose
Yes. Eventually.
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"Prominent Republican Donor" can pound salt http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2018/02/prominent-republican-donor-can-pound.html (http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2018/02/prominent-republican-donor-can-pound.html)
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Hoffman is a real estate magnate in Florida who sided with Hillary and opposed Trump's election.
Which means he was originally a JEB supporter. I can't say I can blame him for wanting to keep quiet about supporting JEB and Hillary. Who would want to admit to something like that in public?
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Hoffman is going to back the Jebutantes of the Republican Party so I say we are better off without him.
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bookmark
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You all, I’m seriously (and obviously) gun ignorant and trying to educate myself. I grew up around them and believe in having them in the home. But I was always reading and only did target practice a few times with my dad. My sister lived out on the farm road and kept a sawed off shotgun under her bed for protection. My dad went hunting, but I was a “girl†so never went.
I know the AR15 looks “scaryâ€, but why is it so popular? Is it faster than other rifles? I’ve been reading about it not being as “high powered†as other long guns. Why does everyone buy them?
And please, I don’t want to ask you all to do my research ;). If you have links you could share, I’m happy to read on my own.
May I recommend:
Modern Sporting Rifle Facts
https://www.nssf.org/msr/ (https://www.nssf.org/msr/)
I think the interchangeable customization ability from standard components across most manufactures is the real reason for the popularity, along with relatively cheap ammo.
What is it about this particular weapon that makes it so attractive to gun collectors, shooting range enthusiasts and mass murderers? Part of the rifle's appeal, according to experts, is its versatility — the modular AR-15 can be modified, assembled from scratch, colored, customized and rebuilt with just a few simple tools and a limited amount of technical know-how.
"Because it's so modular, you can build the firearm the way that you want it, and it can be like nobody else's firearm. It's about personalization," Jay Duncan, vice president of sales at gun retailer Daniel Defense, told Wired. Indeed, the AR-15 has several Facebook pages, including one with more than 170,000 fans, where issues like mags (magazines), barrels, lasers, scopes and other gun bling are discussed.
"I always tease that it's like Legos for grown men," Duncan said, "because there's plenty of guys that get one, two, six ARs. And they're constantly tinkering with them — changing barrel lengths, changing optics, putting different sights on them. It's the same reason that a guy gets into remote-controlled cars or fly-tying [fishing]. Because it's a fun hobby, and it's a distraction from reality sometimes."
More at: What Makes the AR-15 Rifle 'America's Gun'?
https://www.livescience.com/39719-ar-15-rifle-americas-gun-assault-weapon.html (https://www.livescience.com/39719-ar-15-rifle-americas-gun-assault-weapon.html)
also:
Why the AR-15 is America's Most Popular Rifle
https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/1/why-the-ar15-is-americas-most-popular-rifle/ (https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/1/why-the-ar15-is-americas-most-popular-rifle/)
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And please, I don’t want to ask you all to do my research ;). If you have links you could share, I’m happy to read on my own.
This article reminded me of another major factor for popularity, low recoil. It is not punishing to the shooter, even a very small, physically weak shooter to shoot for an extended period of time.
This gives the perspective of different users for their reason to choose an AR15.
Sticking to their gun
http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2016/gun-owners/#_ga=2.158790458.10324857.1518987516-687419617.1518987515 (http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2016/gun-owners/#_ga=2.158790458.10324857.1518987516-687419617.1518987515)
Aficionados say the AR-15 is ideal for civilian sport shooting, self-defense
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It's your money, pal.
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THackney, thank you so much for all the info and sources! I have a lot of research to do ;).
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This guy is FOS and engaging in a PR move. People like Gates and Buffett say flowery things to keep the Occupy Wall St types away. This donor is engaging in the same tactics. He's not giving large sums because he's such a great guy. Money greases wheels, gains influence, and creates kingmakers. He won't stop giving.
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The AR platform is very simple the operate, has low recoil, is easily customizable, and accurate. The smaller caliber ammo is light, so more can be carried. The ballistic performance inside 200M is more than good enough to cause massive wounds and death. It’s not as high-powered as 7.62, but it’s more controllable in full auto fire for suppression. There’s always a trade off in any weapon.
@edpc
While correct, I don't know if it is fair to leave it at that. I think the point-in-fact is 'looks scary' which has been unfairly assigned to the AR platform, largely in ignorance. Any modern rifle, designed around modular, light weight aspects, with rail mounted options is going to 'look scary' and be assumed by the uninitiated to be an 'AR', which is synonymous with the absurd notion of 'assault weapon'.
As an instance I am looking at a modern long range rifle, built around a Remington 700 action in a 300win caliber. Because it is largely carbon fiber (big, fat barrel looks like a silencer *GASP*), clip fed, with a collapsible (adjustable) butt, a hole-punched titanium hand rest, and a big, rail mounted scope, no doubt it falls handily into the 'looks scary' 'assault weapon' genre. What it is in fact, is a hunting rifle for extreme long distance, designed to be very light weight for the long hike in.
To wit: ANY rifle or shotgun platform of any caliber can be made to look like an 'assault weapon'. Part of that is no doubt for the cool ('looks scary' in liberal speak), but it is largely because of the utility and light weight that comes with modern designs.
@LauraTXNM
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@edpc
While correct, I don't know if it is fair to leave it at that. I think the point-in-fact is 'looks scary' which has been unfairly assigned to the AR platform, largely in ignorance. Any modern rifle, designed around modular, light weight aspects, with rail mounted options is going to 'look scary' and be assumed by the uninitiated to be an 'AR', which is synonymous with the absurd notion of 'assault weapon'.
As an instance I am looking at a modern long range rifle, built around a Remington 700 action in a 300win caliber. Because it is largely carbon fiber (big, fat barrel looks like a silencer *GASP*), clip fed, with a collapsible (adjustable) butt, a hole-punched titanium hand rest, and a big, rail mounted scope, no doubt it falls handily into the 'looks scary' 'assault weapon' genre. What it is in fact, is a hunting rifle for extreme long distance, designed to be very light weight for the long hike in.
To wit: ANY rifle or shotgun platform of any caliber can be made to look like an 'assault weapon'. Part of that is no doubt for the cool ('looks scary' in liberal speak), but it is largely because of the utility and light weight that comes with modern designs.
@LauraTXNM
Thanks, Roamer!
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You all, I’m seriously (and obviously) gun ignorant and trying to educate myself. I grew up around them and believe in having them in the home. But I was always reading and only did target practice a few times with my dad. My sister lived out on the farm road and kept a sawed off shotgun under her bed for protection. My dad went hunting, but I was a “girl†so never went.
I know the AR15 looks “scaryâ€, but why is it so popular? Is it faster than other rifles? I’ve been reading about it not being as “high powered†as other long guns. Why does everyone buy them?
And please, I don’t want to ask you all to do my research ;). If you have links you could share, I’m happy to read on my own.
One word that make them so popular. Customizable
Something I can't do with my much more powerful and deadly Remington 30-06 hunting rifle with its beautiful wood stock is hang a Tac Light on it, and an Aimpoint PRO red dot sight, a lazer, and customized grip, and a six position stock. None of this needed on my hunting rifle, but on a home defense weapon or one used to kill destructive wild pigs, this stuff is indespensible.
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@edpc
As an instance I am looking at a modern long range rifle, built around a Remington 700 action in a 300win caliber.
@roamer_1 The one rifle I used to have that I miss more than any other is my old 300 H&H Magnum with a 3x9 Redfield scope. I could get 3 shot groupings that touched at 100 meters with it. Plus I just love the look of that long,tapered case,and I am one of those who believe the straight tapered cases make for more uniform ignition and more accurate shots than the ones that are blown out and have sharp shoulders.
I just remembered. I bought a rifle in gunsmith school that you would love to have. My own design wildcat based around a .348 Winchester case necked up to .375 caliber in a Siamese Mauser,back when you could buy a good one for 50 bucks. I could get 375 H & H velocities out of a medium length action with picked loads. I gave it to a friend who is an avid hunter several years ago after I basically lost interest in shooting rifles. Something like that sure would be a sweet daily carry rifle for someone that lives in the mountains.
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@roamer_1 The one rifle I used to have that I miss more than any other is my old 300 H&H Magnum with a 3x9 Redfield scope. I could get 3 shot groupings that touched at 100 meters with it. Plus I just love the look of that long,tapered case,and I am one of those who believe the straight tapered cases make for more uniform ignition and more accurate shots than the ones that are blown out and have sharp shoulders.
I just remembered. I bought a rifle in gunsmith school that you would love to have. My own design wildcat based around a .348 Winchester case necked up to .375 caliber in a Siamese Mauser,back when you could buy a good one for 50 bucks. I could get 375 H & H velocities out of a medium length action with picked loads. I gave it to a friend who is an avid hunter several years ago after I basically lost interest in shooting rifles. Something like that sure would be a sweet daily carry rifle for someone that lives in the mountains.
@sneakypete
To tell the truth, I am having trouble with 300win... Back in the day I ran a Remington 700 in 7mm mag with that same 3x9 Redfield... And I could drive tacks with it WAY out there. But in my opinion, at range, because of the small bullet, it ran out of smack. Great for antelope, but not a good elk rifle. Twice I have had to chase elk down, where the shot was good... Just not enough poo left in it...
So when I got out of the chair a while back, I bought a 700Rem 300WinMag, hoping the extra weight would allow the shot to retain knock-down power further out. I've got a Shepherd P1 scope on it, and YES, it has more poop at a distance, but at 400 yards (still pretty short, really), I am hard pressed to keep it in a pie plate. Can't figure it out. I floated the stock, and then had a professional go back and check my work... Been on the dial with that P1 several times... I even built a bolt-down bench to take 'me' out of it... Some of it, I am almost sure, is the wind blowing the round around more than the 7mm.
And some of it is a spirit thing - For me, technical shooting has it's limits. I don't know how else to say it other than that I have to feel it. And I can't get that touch. I know that sounds dumb, but it's there. Ain't got my mojo.
That's part of why I am looking at this high-tech rig...
As for EDC in the woods, you won't get me off of a lever action carbine... Been on a model 94 Winchester .30/30 for ever, though again, I bumped it up after the wheelchair... I am running a Marlin 45/70 now, and I won't ever have anything else. That big, fat slow moving round goes right exactly where you put it in the brush, with zero deflection every time. I don't need speed and range in the bush. I need it to bull through anything and go where I put it at open sight distances... Hardly ever get a shot over 75 yards anyway.
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@sneakypete
To tell the truth, I am having trouble with 300win... Back in the day I ran a Remington 700 in 7mm mag with that same 3x9 Redfield... And I could drive tacks with it WAY out there. But in my opinion, at range, because of the small bullet, it ran out of smack. Great for antelope, but not a good elk rifle. Twice I have had to chase elk down, where the shot was good... Just not enough poo left in it...
So when I got out of the chair a while back, I bought a 700Rem 300WinMag, hoping the extra weight would allow the shot to retain knock-down power further out. I've got a Shepherd P1 scope on it, and YES, it has more poop at a distance, but at 400 yards (still pretty short, really), I am hard pressed to keep it in a pie plate. Can't figure it out. I floated the stock, and then had a professional go back and check my work... Been on the dial with that P1 several times... I even built a bolt-down bench to take 'me' out of it... Some of it, I am almost sure, is the wind blowing the round around more than the 7mm.
And some of it is a spirit thing - For me, technical shooting has it's limits. I don't know how else to say it other than that I have to feel it. And I can't get that touch. I know that sounds dumb, but it's there. Ain't got my mojo.
That's part of why I am looking at this high-tech rig...
As for EDC in the woods, you won't get me off of a lever action carbine... Been on a model 94 Winchester .30/30 for ever, though again, I bumped it up after the wheelchair... I am running a Marlin 45/70 now, and I won't ever have anything else. That big, fat slow moving round goes right exactly where you put it in the brush, with zero deflection every time. I don't need speed and range in the bush. I need it to bull through anything and go where I put it at open sight distances... Hardly ever get a shot over 75 yards anyway.
@roamer_1
I have a Savage .300WM with that exact same Shepard mounted. It will do 2" groups @ 300 yds all day long with federal 180gr. Even better with my handloads.
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@roamer_1
I have a Savage .300WM with that exact same Shepard mounted. It will do 2" groups @ 300 yds all day long with federal 180gr. Even better with my handloads.
@Bigun
Yeah, I know. It's a good rig. Like I say, I don't know why. My buddy has a big leupold scope coming this spring... And we're going to throw that on mine to take the scope out of the deal, and see if I do better.
Part of it is my eyeballs, pretty sure - though the magnification should offset that. Dunno. :shrug:
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@goodwithagun
LOL! Good one!
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@sneakypete
To tell the truth, I am having trouble with 300win... Back in the day I ran a Remington 700 in 7mm mag with that same 3x9 Redfield... And I could drive tacks with it WAY out there. But in my opinion, at range, because of the small bullet, it ran out of smack. Great for antelope, but not a good elk rifle. Twice I have had to chase elk down, where the shot was good... Just not enough poo left in it...
So when I got out of the chair a while back, I bought a 700Rem 300WinMag, hoping the extra weight would allow the shot to retain knock-down power further out. I've got a Shepherd P1 scope on it, and YES, it has more poop at a distance, but at 400 yards (still pretty short, really), I am hard pressed to keep it in a pie plate. Can't figure it out. I floated the stock, and then had a professional go back and check my work... Been on the dial with that P1 several times... I even built a bolt-down bench to take 'me' out of it... Some of it, I am almost sure, is the wind blowing the round around more than the 7mm.
And some of it is a spirit thing - For me, technical shooting has it's limits. I don't know how else to say it other than that I have to feel it. And I can't get that touch. I know that sounds dumb, but it's there. Ain't got my mojo.
That's part of why I am looking at this high-tech rig...
As for EDC in the woods, you won't get me off of a lever action carbine... Been on a model 94 Winchester .30/30 for ever, though again, I bumped it up after the wheelchair... I am running a Marlin 45/70 now, and I won't ever have anything else. That big, fat slow moving round goes right exactly where you put it in the brush, with zero deflection every time. I don't need speed and range in the bush. I need it to bull through anything and go where I put it at open sight distances... Hardly ever get a shot over 75 yards anyway.
@roamer_1
BTW, I BUILT that rifle,not "bought" it. Did it as a learning project. Even had a half-octagon and half-round barrel,and a Birdseye maple stock. That stock is something I am never doing again.
As for your 300 win being that inaccurage,you have already bedded the action and floated the barrel,right? If you have done both,my suggestion is to take it to a competent gunsmith or send it off to the Colorado School of Trades or some other gunsmith school (don't they have one in Mt now?) and have them lap the locking lugs into the receiver,and machine the end of the action and the end of the barrel to perfect 90 degree flats. Of course,after they do this they will have to run a finish reamer into the chamber because the barrel will be set back from the lug lapping and shouldering the barrel. Make sure you tell whoever does this job that your preferred bullet is a xxx grain xxx manufactuer seated to a loaded OAL of xxx.xx inches and loaded in cases by xxx manufacturer. It just makes you feel good all over to chamber a round that fits like a glove,plus they shoot pretty damn good,too.
Yeah,I know the old "free bore versus no free bore" arguments. MY thoughts on this is to have the bullet VERY lightly kissing the lands and grooves as the bolt snugs down. That's why you have to tell them case and bullet manufacturer,as well as the overall loaded length.
Yeah,I will take a 336 Marlin over a 94 Winchester any day of the week,and the 45/70 carbine version would be my pick of the litter. For dangerous game up close,I want a bullet as heavy as I can fit in the case,and if it has a wadcutter nose,mo betta. Screw a bunch of over-penetration. You want it to hit hard and mean something every time.
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@roamer_1
BTW, I BUILT that rifle,not "bought" it. Did it as a learning project. Even had a half-octagon and half-round barrel,and a Birdseye maple stock. That stock is something I am never doing again.
As for your 300 win being that inaccurage,you have already bedded the action and floated the barrel,right? If you have done both,my suggestion is to take it to a competent gunsmith or send it off to the Colorado School of Trades or some other gunsmith school (don't they have one in Mt now?) and have them lap the locking lugs into the receiver,and machine the end of the action and the end of the barrel to perfect 90 degree flats. Of course,after they do this they will have to run a finish reamer into the chamber because the barrel will be set back from the lug lapping and shouldering the barrel. Make sure you tell whoever does this job that your preferred bullet is a xxx grain xxx manufactuer seated to a loaded OAL of xxx.xx inches and loaded in cases by xxx manufacturer. It just makes you feel good all over to chamber a round that fits like a glove,plus they shoot pretty damn good,too.
Yeah,I know the old "free bore versus no free bore" arguments. MY thoughts on this is to have the bullet VERY lightly kissing the lands and grooves as the bolt snugs down. That's why you have to tell them case and bullet manufacturer,as well as the overall loaded length.
Yeah,I will take a 336 Marlin over a 94 Winchester any day of the week,and the 45/70 carbine version would be my pick of the litter. For dangerous game up close,I want a bullet as heavy as I can fit in the case,and if it has a wadcutter nose,mo betta. Screw a bunch of over-penetration. You want it to hit hard and mean something every time.
@ sneakypete
Won't go into detail about what I do in loading rounds for my bolt guns. Just suffice it to say it is meticulous and the results show it.
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BTW, I BUILT that rifle,not "bought" it. Did it as a learning project. Even had a half-octagon and half-round barrel,and a Birdseye maple stock. That stock is something I am never doing again.
@sneakypete
That's something! Funny tho, the stock is the easy part for me...
As for your 300 win being that inaccurage,you have already bedded the action and floated the barrel,right? If you have done both,my suggestion is to take it to a competent gunsmith or send it off to the Colorado School of Trades or some other gunsmith school (don't they have one in Mt now?)
I have a whole lot of faith in my smithy. He says it's sound as hell. Though I have all the fixins to change it out to .458, to include a brand new barrel, and if I can't figure it out pretty soon, I am gonna cave to his suggestion that I do the conversion and see about that. That was my intention in the first place, but I would kinda like to run the 300WinMag and get it figured out.
Another part of the problem is a measured range where I can stretch that puppy out. Same range and conditions every time... An old vet buddy of mine has 900 yds mapped out, but he's way back in... If I am doing good this spring, I will go up there for a coupe weeks, and I will be able to dial it in good.
I am hoping to go to Leupold's long range class this fall - Another reason I am looking at that high tech gun - And I would really like to have my mojo back for that. Hard telling. Dang near 10 years stuck in that chair, never seeing farther than 15ft... Never touching a gun... Shit has changed.
But thanks for your suggestions - I will pass them along.
Yeah,I will take a 336 Marlin over a 94 Winchester any day of the week,and the 45/70 carbine version would be my pick of the litter. For dangerous game up close,I want a bullet as heavy as I can fit in the case,and if it has a wadcutter nose,mo betta. Screw a bunch of over-penetration. You want it to hit hard and mean something every time.
Fitted mine with the tube off the cowboy, cut down of course, but left as long as I could. Put a merc balancer up at the top and lost a round... put another merc in the stock, and she shoots like budda.
Best thing I ever had.
damn right on the heavy, btw. I cross the tops.
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And while we're here talking AR's let it be noted that "AR" stands for Armalite - the company that designed and first built them - not "assault rifle". Don't let 'em tell ya any different.
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@sneakypete
And I would really like to have my mojo back for that. Hard telling. Dang near 10 years stuck in that chair, never seeing farther than 15ft... Never touching a gun... Shit has changed.
@roamer_1
Yeah,I know all about changed circumstances. 3 emergency surgeries,COPD,and a stroke,plus a couple of scheduled surgeries,and a little more than 10 years down before I could get well enough to try to get better. Now I have arthritis in both shoulders and both knees,and my hands are so messed up the ER tech couldn't tell on the x-ray if my hand was broken again or not because of the arthritis in it. COPD is the mountain too tall to climb,though. When you lose your wind,you have nothing left.
Still,it could be worse,and I'm a little surprised it isn't.
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@roamer_1
Yeah,I know all about changed circumstances. 3 emergency surgeries,COPD,and a stroke,plus a couple of scheduled surgeries,and a little more than 10 years down before I could get well enough to try to get better. Now I have arthritis in both shoulders and both knees,and my hands are so messed up the ER tech couldn't tell on the x-ray if my hand was broken again or not because of the arthritis in it. COPD is the mountain too tall to climb,though. When you lose your wind,you have nothing left.
Still,it could be worse,and I'm a little surprised it isn't.
@sneakypete
Huh... As luck would have it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtL1fEEtLaA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtL1fEEtLaA)
https://stemcellstransplantinstitute.com/copd/ (https://stemcellstransplantinstitute.com/copd/)
Sister approached with this stuff... looking into it for my mom, who has RA pretty bad... And my sis has serious immune system stuff going on.
Dunno, jussayin... :shrug:
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@sneakypete
Huh... As luck would have it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtL1fEEtLaA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtL1fEEtLaA)
https://stemcellstransplantinstitute.com/copd/ (https://stemcellstransplantinstitute.com/copd/)
Sister approached with this stuff... looking into it for my mom, who has RA pretty bad... And my sis has serious immune system stuff going on.
Dunno, jussayin... :shrug:
@roamer_1
Thanks for the links. They are very interesting,but I just can't afford either.
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And while we're here talking AR's let it be noted that "AR" stands for Armalite - the company that designed and first built them - not "assault rifle". Don't let 'em tell ya any different.
Good point and thanks for reminder.
Welcome to GBR @Meldrew
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Good point and thanks for reminder.
Welcome to GBR @Meldrew
@IsailedawayfromFR
The first one I was issued in the army was stamped as an AR-15,and other than the full-auto switch capability,was identical to the civilian semi-auto version that hit the market. It didn't even have the foreward bolt assist on it. Frankly,I thought it was ridiculous and wanted my M-14 back.
I'm still half-convinced I was at least half-right back then.
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@IsailedawayfromFR
The first one I was issued in the army was stamped as an AR-15,and other than the full-auto switch capability,was identical to the civilian semi-auto version that hit the market. It didn't even have the foreward bolt assist on it. Frankly,I thought it was ridiculous and wanted my M-14 back.
I'm still half-convinced I was at least half-right back then.
Yeah! As I recall there were a lot of people less than impressed by those damned new plastic guns at the time! Frankly, I still am.
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Yeah! As I recall there were a lot of people less than impressed by those damned new plastic guns at the time! Frankly, I still am.
@Bigun
I had a friend that carried a cut down M-14 he modified by cutting off the butt stock and attaching a pistol grip on jungle patrols because he didn't trust the 223 round
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According to Google, he raised money for GWB and cheerfully accepted a plum Ambassador gig in Portugal for his troubles. Apparently he thinks that gives him the moral authority to dictate policy to politicians. You're right, he's not the kind of slime mold you would be interested in knowing, he's a step below your average tenant.
@Cyber Liberty
Cyber, I think the AR 15 and weapons that can be made to fire rapidly like that one, are going to be banned this time around. The problem, is, once that one is banned, liberals will start wanting another type banned, then another type, until they are all banned and only the bad guys have guns. Of course, those of us who already have weapons, are NOT giving them up.
Once guns were gone from Australia, house burglaries sky rocketed. The bad guys with guns, knew no one in the house had a gun.
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@Cyber Liberty
Cyber, I think the AR 15 and weapons that can be made to fire rapidly like that one, are going to be banned this time around. The problem, is, once that one is banned, liberals will start wanting another type banned, then another type, until they are all banned and only the bad guys have guns. Of course, those of us who already have weapons, are NOT giving them up.
Once guns were gone from Australia, house burglaries sky rocketed. The bad guys with guns, knew no one in the house had a gun.
@Victoria33
They are going to try but I don't think they'll be successful. Everyone knows despite horrific attacks like this one and in Texas, that rifles are not commonly used in crimes. I'm sure Trump will tweet something in a few days to distract them from this.
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@Cyber Liberty
Cyber, I think the AR 15 and weapons that can be made to fire rapidly like that one, are going to be banned this time around. The problem, is, once that one is banned, liberals will start wanting another type banned, then another type, until they are all banned and only the bad guys have guns. Of course, those of us who already have weapons, are NOT giving them up.
Once guns were gone from Australia, house burglaries sky rocketed. The bad guys with guns, knew no one in the house had a gun.
All semi-automatics? Including pistols?
I do not think there will be in real consideration by the feds to do this. They may posture for the cameras but will go nowhere.
The growing of carry permits and gun sales makes it clear this important for a very large percentage of the population, regardless of what the main-stream media tries to focus upon.
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@Cyber Liberty
Cyber, I think the AR 15 and weapons that can be made to fire rapidly like that one, are going to be banned this time around. The problem, is, once that one is banned, liberals will start wanting another type banned, then another type, until they are all banned and only the bad guys have guns. Of course, those of us who already have weapons, are NOT giving them up.
Once guns were gone from Australia, house burglaries sky rocketed. The bad guys with guns, knew no one in the house had a gun.
The Democrats look at the Aussie example and drool every time there's a mass shooting, especially at a school. they saw emotions carry the day there, and think it will happen here too. They are evil ghouls.
Our job is to resist them. If the Pubbies do as you predict, they will be out of office in November, and all there will be to stop the rats will be a President who has spoken approvingly of gun control, and a Court system that is a crapshoot. god save this Republic.
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The Democrats look at the Aussie example and drool every time there's a mass shooting, especially at a school. they saw emotions carry the day there, and think it will happen here too. They are evil ghouls.
Our job is to resist them. If the Pubbies do as you predict, they will be out of office in November, and all there will be to stop the rats will be a President who has spoken approvingly of gun control, and a Court system that is a crapshoot. god save this Republic.
I know people in Australia. Its illegal for them to use pretty much any form of self defense.
Our firearms are a threat to the NWO weasels.
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An assault weapon ban is a useless gesture. It didn't work the last time we did it. We'll ban the sale but it won't stop the use. We would be forced to go with banning ownership. Then they would be used again. Then the Democrats would have the impetus to demand confiscation using gun sales documents since "we had already determined they are too dangerous to keep around".
Before you start with the Slippery Slope argument, remember that Same-sex Marriage used to be a Slippery Slope Argument.
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An assault weapon ban is a useless gesture. It didn't work the last time we did it. We'll ban the sale but it won't stop the use. We would be forced to go with banning ownership. Then they would be used again. Then the Democrats would have the impetus to demand confiscation using gun sales documents since "we had already determined they are too dangerous to keep around".
Before you start with the Slippery Slope argument, remember that Same-sex Marriage used to be a Slippery Slope Argument.
@Restored
It doesn't matter if it works or not. It is a step towards the eventual banning and confiscation of firearms. Their stated goal.
The fact that the slippery slope was used on other issues does not make in inaccurate here. The gun banners will keep pushing step by step until they get their agenda through. They hope that events like this will break peoples will and are working towards that goal.
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Let me correct you, Drift
The confiscation of YOUR guns. They will have an exemption to the law.
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Let me correct you, Drift
The confiscation of YOUR guns. They will have an exemption to the law.
@Restored
Of course, the govt will keep its guns and the folks that can afford private security won't have to worry.
Its only the peasants that will be disarmed.
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@Restored
Of course, the govt will keep its guns and the folks that can afford private security won't have to worry.
Its only the peasants that will be disarmed.
And of course when it comes to taking guns away from a certain element, there will be cries of "Racism!", so they'll get to keep their guns.
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@roamer_1
Thanks for the links. They are very interesting,but I just can't afford either.
@sneakypete
You never can tell... You might step off the curb and get hit by a bus tomorrow, and sue the crap outta somebody... :shrug:
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Politicians will be excluded from the law. Defining "politician" will become the focus of much money and influence. A Community Organizer may be considered a politician.
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Yeah! As I recall there were a lot of people less than impressed by those damned new plastic guns at the time! Frankly, I still am.
The only part thats plastic is the stock. The round is a bit light but is cheaper and lighter. Its a decent round.
I will probably buy an ar10 in the .308, much more expensive to shoot but better ballistics and power.
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The only part thats plastic is the stock. The round is a bit light but is cheaper and lighter. Its a decent round.
I will probably buy an ar10 in the .308, much more expensive to shoot but better ballistics and power.
I bought an AR variant in 7.62x39 (AK round).
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The only part thats plastic is the stock. The round is a bit light but is cheaper and lighter. Its a decent round.
I will probably buy an ar10 in the .308, much more expensive to shoot but better ballistics and power.
I'm far to long in the tooth for that fire and maneuver stuff now. I'll just stand back and touch them from far far away.
My sons on several AR style weapons and I own none.
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I'm far to long in the tooth for that fire and maneuver stuff now. I'll just stand back and touch them from far far away.
My sons on several AR style weapons and I own none.
I hear ya but I find the 5.56 is cheap enough to keep the skills up, Plus I live in Florida and there aren't a lot of places here where you can see more than a couple hundred yards. At least in my area. I hope to buy a house up in the North GA, South NC mountains soon and that might change.
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I hear ya but I find the 5.56 is cheap enough to keep the skills up, Plus I live in Florida and there aren't a lot of places here where you can see more than a couple hundred yards. At least in my area. I hope to buy a house up in the North GA, South NC mountains soon and that might change.
@driftdiver
A 22 rim fire will do the job if you have the luxury of enough time to take a careful,well-aimed shot. All you can kill anybody is dead. Anything beyond that is extra.
The trick is to get them close enough and still enough to take an accurate shot from up close. Snipers have a similar problem,but their targets are not usually moving so fast and they have heavier and faster bullets.
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Good point and thanks for reminder.
Welcome to GBR @Meldrew
Thanks for the welcome @IsailedawayfromFR . I've been here for awhile having been exiled from TOS before the election. I rarely comment if I don't have something substantitive to say. That's hard to do on this site as the regulars are usually smarter than I am.
And for the record, 5.56 is no sloutch at distance. My adorable bride has been known to ring steel at 550 yards with hers. I've no idea what penetration might be at that distance but I'm in no hurry to find out. :cool:
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Thanks for the welcome @IsailedawayfromFR . I've been here for awhile having been exiled from TOS before the election. I rarely comment if I don't have something substantitive to say. That's hard to do on this site as the regulars are usually smarter than I am.
And for the record, 5.56 is no sloutch at distance. My adorable bride has been known to ring steel at 550 yards with hers. I've no idea what penetration might be at that distance but I'm in no hurry to find out. :cool:
I got exiled the same way and left forever.
Best move I made in quite awhile.
And do not discount yourself. That comment you made is one others will keep in mind.
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@driftdiver
A 22 rim fire will do the job if you have the luxury of enough time to take a careful,well-aimed shot. All you can kill anybody is dead. Anything beyond that is extra.
The trick is to get them close enough and still enough to take an accurate shot from up close. Snipers have a similar problem,but their targets are not usually moving so fast and they have heavier and faster bullets.
@sneakypete
I agree that the 22 is usable. Find me one person that wants to be shot with one. Its good for teaching people to shoot and taking small game. I know people used to hunt deer with it but I probably wouldn't try. That said I have about 8000 rounds in the closet.
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Thanks for the welcome @IsailedawayfromFR . I've been here for awhile having been exiled from TOS before the election. I rarely comment if I don't have something substantitive to say. That's hard to do on this site as the regulars are usually smarter than I am.
And for the record, 5.56 is no sloutch at distance. My adorable bride has been known to ring steel at 550 yards with hers. I've no idea what penetration might be at that distance but I'm in no hurry to find out. :cool:
@Meldrew
Welcome, and I sincerely doubt the regulars are smarter then you. myself included, or we would be smart enough to keep our trap shut more often
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Oh, fer chrissakes, this sh!t again? Has everybody forgotten how stupidly ineffective it was the last time around???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
In 2003, the Task Force on Community Preventive Services, an independent, non-federal task force, examined an assortment of firearms laws, including the AWB, and found "insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence".[27] A 2004 critical review of firearms research by a National Research Council committee said that an academic study of the assault weapon ban "did not reveal any clear impacts on gun violence outcomes". The committee noted that the study's authors said the guns were used criminally with relative rarity before the ban and that its maximum potential effect on gun violence outcomes would be very small.[28]
In 2004, a research report submitted to the United States Department of Justice and the National Institute of Justice found that should the ban be renewed, its effects on gun violence would likely be small, and perhaps too small for reliable measurement, because rifles in general, including rifles referred to as "assault rifles" or "assault weapons", are rarely used in gun crimes.[29] That study by Christopher S. Koper, Daniel J. Woods, and Jeffrey A. Roth of the Jerry Lee Center of Criminology, University of Pennsylvania found no statistically significant evidence that either the assault weapons ban or the ban on magazines holding more than 10 rounds had reduced gun murders. The authors also report that "there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence, based on indicators like the percentage of gun crimes resulting in death or the share of gunfire incidents resulting in injury." [29]
And so forth and so on...
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The problem is, that they will institute a ban and be unpleasantly surprised when the number of mass shootings DOESN'T go down.
The only reason it keeps going up lately is NOT because of gun ownership, but because of moral decline.
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The problem is, that they will institute a ban and be unpleasantly surprised when the number of mass shootings DOESN'T go down.
The only reason it keeps going up lately is NOT because of gun ownership, but because of moral decline.
What do you mean, "unpleasantly surprised?" They won't be surprised at all, and will be thrilled at having another opportunity to tighten the thumbscrews even more on the law-abiding gun owners of this country.
That there will be innocents killed means nothing to them. Gotta break a few eggs, you know.