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General Category => Sports/Entertainment/MSM/Social Media => Topic started by: Sanguine on May 04, 2019, 11:46:00 pm

Title: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualified,
Post by: Sanguine on May 04, 2019, 11:46:00 pm
Quote
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2019/05/1862/1048/AP19124837585902.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)

Country House was declared the winner of the 145th running of the Kentucky Derby at Churchill Downs on Saturday following “an inquiry ruling” and the disqualification of Maximum Security, officials said.

The disqualification marked "the first time in 145 years" that "the horse who finished first in the Kentucky Derby was disqualified," the official Twitter account for the sporting event said.

Country House was a 65-1 longshot in the race that included 18 other competitors. Maximum Security, who crossed the finish line first, was disqualified for interfering with the path of serveral horses....

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/country-house-declared-kentucky-derby-winner-after-inquiry-ruling-maximum-security-disqualified-officials-say (https://www.foxnews.com/sports/country-house-declared-kentucky-derby-winner-after-inquiry-ruling-maximum-security-disqualified-officials-say)

How sad for Maximum Security.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: rustynail on May 04, 2019, 11:49:38 pm
No good will come from this.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: mountaineer on May 04, 2019, 11:55:46 pm
That was wild. Can't imagine how disappointing it was for the jockey, trainer and owners of the #7 horse.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Sanguine on May 04, 2019, 11:59:27 pm
Beautiful horse.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 05, 2019, 08:06:41 am
Someone made a killing at those 65:1 odds when the disqualification was announced.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Machiavelli on May 05, 2019, 07:13:35 pm
Someone made a killing at those 65:1 odds when the disqualification was announced.

Oh, yes. (https://sports.yahoo.com/man-wins-147000-thanks-to-kentucky-derby-controversy-053111782.html)
Title: 'The best horse did NOT win!' Trump blasts controversial Kentucky Derby reversal as 'political corre
Post by: Machiavelli on May 05, 2019, 07:22:55 pm
'The best horse did NOT win!' Trump blasts controversial Kentucky Derby reversal as 'political correctness' after winning horse is disqualified for 'impeding' another's path

Quote
President Donald Trump added his outrage on sunday to the national dustup over  Saturday's controversial Kentuky Derby finish, complaining that disqualifying the apparent winning horse for interfering with another is a sign of 'political correctness' run amok.

'The Kentuky [sic] Derby decision was not a good one. It was a rough and tumble race on a wet and sloppy track, actually, a beautiful thing to watch,' Trump wrote on Twitter.

'Only in these days of political correctness could such an overturn occur. The best horse did NOT win the Kentucky Derby - not even close!'

More (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6994731/Trump-blasts-controversial-Kentucky-Derby-reversal-political-correctness.html)

Mr. President, do you have to comment on EVERYTHING?   :facepalm2:
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: berdie on May 05, 2019, 10:16:19 pm
Someone made a killing at those 65:1 odds when the disqualification was announced.



They most certainly did!!  All three of them/ joke.

I'm still not sure I agree with the call. I had no money on either....but sure wish I had on the winner.
Title: Re: 'The best horse did NOT win!' Trump blasts controversial Kentucky Derby reversal as 'political c
Post by: jmyrlefuller on May 06, 2019, 12:03:25 am
Mr. President, do you have to comment on EVERYTHING?
Yes. Yes, he does.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: jmyrlefuller on May 06, 2019, 12:09:55 am
Anyway...

This is the first time in any competition I have ever seen a winner declared who didn't actually win a game. Most sports, if they disqualify the winner, simply state there is no winner.

An Olympic silver medalist does not get the gold if the original gold medalist is DQ'ed.

If an NCAA sports team has all its wins wiped off the record, the losing teams don't get the benefit of having their losses wiped out.

In the NFL, heck, once that game is over, all results are final. You could get away with something totally illegal and the NFL will not overturn a game result, ever.

So why does horse racing do it? Country House placed in that race and was unaffected by the alleged rule violation; he would not have won had Maximum Security not committed the foul. So now that horse gets a win he didn't earn? That's garbage.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Sanguine on May 06, 2019, 12:17:48 am
@jmyrlefuller, I think we will hear more about this one.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: EdJames on May 06, 2019, 12:31:40 am
Anyway...

This is the first time in any competition I have ever seen a winner declared who didn't actually win a game. Most sports, if they disqualify the winner, simply state there is no winner.

An Olympic silver medalist does not get the gold if the original gold medalist is DQ'ed.

If an NCAA sports team has all its wins wiped off the record, the losing teams don't get the benefit of having their losses wiped out.

In the NFL, heck, once that game is over, all results are final. You could get away with something totally illegal and the NFL will not overturn a game result, ever.

So why does horse racing do it? Country House placed in that race and was unaffected by the alleged rule violation; he would not have won had Maximum Security not committed the foul. So now that horse gets a win he didn't earn? That's garbage.

I think that you will see a parallel in the latest NASCAR rules:

https://us.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/nascar-will-disqualify-race-winners/4332802/

Quote
Should the first-place car be disqualified, the second-place car would become the winner of the event and receive all benefits (including the trophy) from the victory.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: mountaineer on May 06, 2019, 01:16:08 am
An Olympic silver medalist does not get the gold if the original gold medalist is DQ'ed.
I believe they do. I have seen track meets - and I believe this includes the Olympics - where the winner later failed a drug test, so 2nd place received the gold medal.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: truth_seeker on May 06, 2019, 01:19:32 am
I think that you will see a parallel in the latest NASCAR rules:

https://us.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/nascar-will-disqualify-race-winners/4332802/ (https://us.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/nascar-will-disqualify-race-winners/4332802/)

And with Formula 1, as well.

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci_ychn7ga0#)

Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Polly Ticks on May 06, 2019, 02:49:23 am
It is obviously unusual in the Kentucky Derby, given that it had never happened before, but not exactly unheard of in horse racing in general. 

Quote
A day after the most controversial finish in the 145-year history of the Kentucky Derby, one thing seemed resolute, there was near unanimity among trainers that the stewards made the right decision to disqualify Maximum Security and award the victory to Country House.
[...]
“I absolutely, positively believe they were right in their decision,” Casse said. “If they made a mistake, it’s that they should have put an inquiry [sign] up. … If it were the last race, it would have taken about two minutes, if that long. Only reason it took so long is because it was the Kentucky Derby.”

Many in horse racing agree with Maximum Security's disqualification at Kentucky Derby (https://www.latimes.com/sports/more/la-sp-kentucky-derby-maximum-security-disqualified-20190505-story.html)

Had they not disqualified him, I have a feeling we'd be seeing plenty of headlines reminiscent of the NCAA Final Four Virginia vs Auburn game:
Missed double dribble looms large in Virginia’s comeback win over Auburn (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/07/missed-double-dribble-looms-large-virginias-comeback-win-over-auburn/?utm_term=.7f27cb5a2062)
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Polly Ticks on May 06, 2019, 01:39:26 pm
Looks like the controversy will continue for at least a few days more.

Quote
Lucas Aulbach, Louisville Courier Journal Published 8:02 a.m. ET May 6, 2019 | Updated 9:13 a.m. ET May 6, 2019

Two days after his horse finished first in the Kentucky Derby but was disqualified after an interference objection, Maximum Security owner Gary West said his horse will not run in the Preakness Stakes and that he plans to file an appeal with the state racing commission over the results of Saturday's race.

The appeal will be filed Monday, West said on NBC's "Today" show, though Kentucky Horse Racing Commission regulations say “findings of fact and determination shall be final and not subject to appeal.” West did not say whether he would file a lawsuit if the appeal is not accepted by the commission but hinted that it would be a possibility.


Maximum Security owner plans Kentucky Derby appeal, says disqualified horse won't run in Preakness  (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/horses/triple/derby/2019/05/06/kentucky-derby-2019-maximum-security-appeal/1116132001/)
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: EasyAce on May 06, 2019, 05:30:01 pm
I believe they do. I have seen track meets - and I believe this includes the Olympics - where the winner later failed a drug test, so 2nd place received the gold medal.
@mountaineer
That actually happened in the 1968 Kentucky Derby. Dancer's Image won the race but was disqualified after he flunked a post-race drug test. (His people appealed in the courts for about four years to no avail, too.) Forward Pass was named the winner as a result.

By the way, folks, this is the written rule under which Maximum Security was disqualified:

If a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey, or to cause the same result, this action shall be deemed a foul . . . If, in the opinion of the stewards, a foul alters the finish of a race, an offending horse may be disqualified by the stewards.

How ironic. In a sport criticised so often for disregarding the safety of horses and their jockeys, a rule put into place to help secure that safety was broken and the horse breaking it disqualified.

Mr. President, shut your tweeter a moment and consider: The best doesn't always get to win, for various reasons. Just ask the 1954 Indians, the 1969 Orioles, and the 2001 Mariners, though their losses weren't for breaking any rules.

And even the best aren't immune to the rules. There were (and still are, though their ranks dwindle by the year) those who thought Pete Rose should have been given a pass from breaking baseball's written rules because they thought he was "the best" at his business, too. How did that work out for him?
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Gefn on May 06, 2019, 06:08:43 pm
It was an interesting race. Like looking at the horses. The colors and the HATS!!!!!
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: truth_seeker on May 06, 2019, 06:43:39 pm
I wonder what Carter, GWBush, WJClinton and Obama think?


I don't claim horse racing expertice. I know video replay for officials to closely look more careully.


Apparently the officials saw an infraction, whereas Trump did not.


It looked like a close caall either way, to me.

I note this BIG Nazi dictator, has not (yet) acted to overrule the race officials.

I also notice that Trump is known to offer comments on many things. Some call them Tweaks.

If you (right or left) volunteer to be "tweaked" then it is on you. I remain amused and entertained,


People on the right have been Tweaked before, namely in 1964, in 1980. Donald Trump picked up where MMcCain and Romney dropped the ball.

Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: berdie on May 06, 2019, 09:40:25 pm
I just saw an article that said Maximum Securities winning tickets would not be honored.

I actually do understand that.  Who the heck keeps a losing ticket? How would a person prove it?
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: EasyAce on May 06, 2019, 09:42:50 pm
I just saw an article that said Maximum Securities winning tickets would not be honored.

I actually do understand that.  Who the heck keeps a losing ticket? How would a person prove it?
@berdie
All things considered, they might fetch decent if not spectacular dollars on future collectible markets.

Just like these World Series tickets can fetch a few hundred dollars . . .

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KjAAAOSw1RVafK5-/s-l1600.jpg)

Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: dfwgator on May 06, 2019, 09:44:57 pm
I just saw an article that said Maximum Securities winning tickets would not be honored.

I actually do understand that.  Who the heck keeps a losing ticket? How would a person prove it?

Somewhere in Africa,  children are wearing "Maximum Securities - 2019 Kentucky Derby Winner"  T-Shirts.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: berdie on May 06, 2019, 10:31:49 pm
Somewhere in Africa,  children are wearing "Maximum Securities - 2019 Kentucky Derby Winner"  T-Shirts.


 :bigsilly:  And that is a true story!
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 07, 2019, 01:06:21 am
@mountaineer
That actually happened in the 1968 Kentucky Derby. Dancer's Image won the race but was disqualified after he flunked a post-race drug test. (His people appealed in the courts for about four years to no avail, too.) Forward Pass was named the winner as a result.

By the way, folks, this is the written rule under which Maximum Security was disqualified:

If a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey, or to cause the same result, this action shall be deemed a foul . . . If, in the opinion of the stewards, a foul alters the finish of a race, an offending horse may be disqualified by the stewards.

How ironic. In a sport criticised so often for disregarding the safety of horses and their jockeys, a rule put into place to help secure that safety was broken and the horse breaking it disqualified.

Mr. President, shut your tweeter a moment and consider: The best doesn't always get to win, for various reasons. Just ask the 1954 Indians, the 1969 Orioles, and the 2001 Mariners, though their losses weren't for breaking any rules.

And even the best aren't immune to the rules. There were (and still are, though their ranks dwindle by the year) those who thought Pete Rose should have been given a pass from breaking baseball's written rules because they thought he was "the best" at his business, too. How did that work out for him?
The question is one of whether the foul altered the finish. Considering the second place horse was on the outside and not offended, the horse offended was not able to keep up with the first horse over the line, Did the alleged foul alter the finish?
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: EasyAce on May 07, 2019, 01:40:55 am
The question is one of whether the foul altered the finish. Considering the second place horse was on the outside and not offended, the horse offended was not able to keep up with the first horse over the line, Did the alleged foul alter the finish?
@Smokin Joe
It wasn't an "alleged" foul, it was a foul seen plain enough in numerous video replays of the race. I saw it myself watching the replay angles. This was the chief steward's statement on the disqualification:

Good evening. The riders of the 18 (Long Range Toddy) and 20 (Country House) horses in the Kentucky Derby lodged objections against the 7 [Maximum Security] horse, the winner, due to interference turning for home leaving the quarter pole. We had a lengthy review of the race. We interviewed affected riders. We determined that the 7 horse drifted out and impacted the progress of number 1, in turn interfering with the 18 and 21 (Bodexpress). Those horses were all affected, we thought, by the interference. Therefore we unanimously determined to disqualify number 7 and place him behind the 18, 18 being the lowest-placed horse that he bothered, which is our typical procedure.

The chief steward also could have mentioned that Maximum Security's move impeded War of Will directly; War of Will was making his own push on the turn in question when the foul occurred, and when War of Will was "offended" it forced Long Range Toddy to pull up and avoid the kind of chain reaction spill that might have taken several horses down and injured them. The fact that Country House wasn't physically affected by it is irrelevant, since the horse might well have won the race otherwise, just as War of Will and Long Range Toddy who were physically affected by the foul were making their own chances to win the race heading to the stretch.

The ruling wasn't a snap decision; it took the stewards 22 minutes to review that turn and that foul. And that's what you want to do in a race this important: if an objection is lodged, you want to make sure you get it right.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: jmyrlefuller on May 07, 2019, 02:12:51 pm
Kentucky Derby appeal filed by Maximum Security owners is denied

Basically: we don't care, the stewards' decisions are final regardless of whether they're right.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/horseracing/2019/05/06/maximum-security-kentucky-derby-appeal/1121088001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/horseracing/2019/05/06/maximum-security-kentucky-derby-appeal/1121088001/)
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Idiot on May 07, 2019, 02:43:20 pm
How sad for Maximum Security.
It was a muddy track and Maximum Security slid a bit to the outside.  You mean they can control a horse to within inches of where it needs to be?  Not a chance.  Plus the jockey said the horse was spooked by the crowd and reacted.  If it were intentional then that would be another thing....but it wasn't.

Maximum Security was THE WINNER.  Taking the win away was just a joke. 
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 07, 2019, 08:07:31 pm
It was a muddy track and Maximum Security slid a bit to the outside.  You mean they can control a horse to within inches of where it needs to be?  Not a chance.  Plus the jockey said the horse was spooked by the crowd and reacted.  If it were intentional then that would be another thing....but it wasn't.

Maximum Security was THE WINNER.  Taking the win away was just a joke.
Basically, that was what I saw as well, adjusting for sloppy track conditions, not a credible attempt to interfere with another horse, one which Maximum Security had passed, and which came in a few lengths behind.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Sanguine on May 07, 2019, 08:12:17 pm
Basically, that was what I saw as well, adjusting for sloppy track conditions, not a credible attempt to interfere with another horse, one which Maximum Security had passed, and which came in a few lengths behind.

Yeah, I expect law suits. 
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: EasyAce on May 07, 2019, 08:16:04 pm
Maximum Security's fourth win prior to the Derby (he was, of course, 4-for-4 before the Derby) was in similar conditions in the 24 January Optional Claiming race at Gulfstream Park. He wasn't exactly a stranger to sloppy tracks and neither was his jockey.
Title: Re: Country House declared Kentucky Derby winner after ‘inquiry ruling’; Maximum Security disqualifi
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 07, 2019, 08:22:40 pm
Maximum Security's fourth win prior to the Derby (he was, of course, 4-for-4 before the Derby) was in similar conditions in the 24 January Optional Claiming race at Gulfstream Park. He wasn't exactly a stranger to sloppy tracks and neither was his jockey.
Run any horse around the same track on the same day and he won't step in the same place. Each event is different, for lots of reasons. This was a different track.