The Briefing Room
Exclusive Content => Editorials => Topic started by: TomSea on April 27, 2016, 03:58:24 am
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Kind of a random contribution here but I was listening to Medved today and a caller said maybe one reason so many millennials can sympathize with Socialists is because they have no real experience living with a threat as the Soviet Union and Red China were. So, maybe they want us to become like Denmark or Sweden. (Sigh)
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Kind of a random contribution here but I was listening to Medved today and a caller said maybe one reason so many millennials can sympathize with Socialists is because they have no real experience living with a threat as the Soviet Union and Red China were. So, maybe they want us to become like Denmark or Sweden. (Sigh)
That is what ALL Fabian Socialists have wanted to turn us into.
Apparently, they succeeded.
Worse is coming.
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That is what ALL Fabian Socialists have wanted to turn us into.
Apparently, they succeeded.
Worse is coming.
Yes, GB would mention them but interestingly, in the '70s, there were the old "Freedom Talk" shows with Harold Munn, there is some info on the web on this; the Fabians were discussed way back then. I had this book, I'd like to read it again. Of course, it appears one can find it used. The book was sold by the Freedom Talk people and the Focus on the Family pastor, James Dobson worked for them, he probably got a bit of a start there.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XjqiJ7DsL._SL500_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
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Agreed.
There are a few like that. They remind me of the little robo-kid in the movie "A.I." praying to the Blue Fairy. Same words over and over and over. Nothing you say will breach their impenetrable wall of belief in their 'rightness'. And like the Robokid, they will continue rehashing their fantasy to an unhearing, uncaring object until their batteries die.
Look at it this way. History shows the useful idiots are the first people taken to the camps when socialists take power. And none are more deserving. Every cloud has a silver lining.
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Look at it this way. History shows the useful idiots are the first people taken to the camps when socialists take power. And none are more deserving. Every cloud has a silver lining.
They're taken to the camps first because the useful idiots become the biggest threat to the false gods they put their faith in when they discover they've been duped.
In my opus on FR, I told JR that if by some miracle Trump wins, he will be the first to regret his vote. But then again, maybe not. Some people are too invested in their false god to ever give them up regardless what they do
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There are a few like that. They remind me of the little robo-kid in the movie "A.I." praying to the Blue Fairy. Same words over and over and over. Nothing you say will breach their impenetrable wall of belief in their 'rightness'. And like the Robokid, they will continue rehashing their fantasy to an unhearing, uncaring object until their batteries die.
Look at it this way. History shows the useful idiots are the first people taken to the camps when socialists take power. And none are more deserving. Every cloud has a silver lining.
Damn, that's "cheerful" Norm.
But, true.
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Damn, that's "cheerful" Norm.
But, true.
I am, above all else, a boundless font of positivity, sweetness and light...
Where some see people getting their well earned just rewards as a bad thing, I'm positively thrilled to my core when it happens.
Sarcasm aside, we got to our current state of dysfunction as a country when people stopped being held responsible for their actions. And we won't fix this fiasco until the people who caused it are held to account. Fortunately history shows that although it may be a long time in coming, they ALWAYS get held to account for their actions.
So when the very people who they worked so tirelessly to ensure take power, far be it from me to stand in history's well trod path.
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There are a few like that. They remind me of the little robo-kid in the movie "A.I." praying to the Blue Fairy.
@Meshuge Mikey
Calling Mr Photoshop... :silly:
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I am, above all else, a boundless font of positivity, sweetness and light...
Where some see people getting their well earned just rewards as a bad thing, I'm positively thrilled to my core when it happens.
Sarcasm aside, we got to our current state of dysfunction as a country when people stopped being held responsible for their actions. And we won't fix this fiasco until the people who caused it are held to account. Fortunately history shows that although it may be a long time in coming, they ALWAYS get held to account for their actions.
So when the very people who they worked so tirelessly to ensure take power, far be it from me to stand in history's well trod path.
ABSOLUTELY and positively RIGHT ON!!
“Nothing is more certain than that a general profligacy and corruption of manners make a people ripe for destruction. A good form of government may hold the rotten materials together for some time, but beyond a certain pitch, even the best constitution will be ineffectual, and slavery must ensue.”
John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men, 1776
“No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders. “
Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, November 4, 1775
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“No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders. “
Which is why the whole 'lesser evil' idiocy always has and always will, result in failure. But people 'know better' and stupidly take that route anyway. Every election. Same excuses. Same screaming tantrums. Same result.
More evil in power and further destruction of the idea that was 'America' that the mental giants just can't seem to explain away. Or take the slightest bit of responsibility for causing.
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Which is why the whole 'lesser evil' idiocy always has and always will, result in failure. But people 'know better' and stupidly take that route anyway. Every election. Same excuses. Same screaming tantrums. Same result.
More evil in power and further destruction of the idea that was 'America' that the mental giants just can't seem to explain away. Or take the slightest bit of responsibility for causing.
I actually think the Conservative purity test is the real idiocy, and we knocked out several decent candidates this time around.
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I actually think the Conservative purity test is the real idiocy, and we knocked out several decent candidates this time around.
Except that no one asked for purity. We asked for conservatism. We hear this excuse every 2 years and thats all it is. An excuse.
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Except that no one asked for purity. We asked for conservatism. We hear this excuse every 2 years and thats all it is. An excuse.
Which is why this time is so discouraging to me. "We" got the conservatism option at the top, but the numbers do not look good at all. I voted Cruz in the primary, but, I cannot help but note that his "messaging" is not all that appealing to me. Sharing a platform with Glenn Beck really alarmed me. I can overlook that, but do not understand it. All I can discern is that he thought Christians could and would rise in his support, but they have not. In fact, people who claim to be Christian are supporting a man who never has repented of his sins.
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Which is why this time is so discouraging to me. "We" got the conservatism option at the top, but the numbers do not look good at all. I voted Cruz in the primary, but, I cannot help but note that his "messaging" is not all that appealing to me. Sharing a platform with Glenn Beck really alarmed me. I can overlook that, but do not understand it. All I can discern is that he thought Christians could and would rise in his support, but they have not. In fact, people who claim to be Christian are supporting a man who never has repented of his sins.
You have to take into account that the media is actively carrying water for Trump! At least until he gets the nomination that is!
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Which is why this time is so discouraging to me. "We" got the conservatism option at the top, but the numbers do not look good at all. I voted Cruz in the primary, but, I cannot help but note that his "messaging" is not all that appealing to me. Sharing a platform with Glenn Beck really alarmed me. I can overlook that, but do not understand it. All I can discern is that he thought Christians could and would rise in his support, but they have not. In fact, people who claim to be Christian are supporting a man who never has repented of his sins.
We still got some states that may be friendly to Cruz...Indiana, Montana, Nebraska, possibly some others. Trump needs 300 delegates or so, there are about 500 left, which means he's gotta win around 60%.
And no I've not been happy with Cruz's campaign of late either. He kneejerks too much to what Trump is doing. He needs to set himself apart and get back to message, while point out that Trump isn't going to deliver on the rhetoric, or is a flip-flopper.
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Which is why this time is so discouraging to me. "We" got the conservatism option at the top, but the numbers do not look good at all. I voted Cruz in the primary, but, I cannot help but note that his "messaging" is not all that appealing to me. Sharing a platform with Glenn Beck really alarmed me. I can overlook that, but do not understand it. All I can discern is that he thought Christians could and would rise in his support, but they have not. In fact, people who claim to be Christian are supporting a man who never has repented of his sins.
I just managed to dump about 6 paragraphs of reply....The joys of unfamiliar controls on a forum ;)
But in condensed form, ...
Cruz mistook most Christians and most Americans for people of integrity willing to stand behind the crap they spout online and to their friends. The last several elections show that most on the right of America are no more Christian or American in actual deed than the king of Saudi Arabia. "Christians' today are thoroughly infiltrated by the left which is why so many are pro abortion/homo/immigration.
I think Cruz has little choice other than strange alliances since he cannot...CANNOT trust so called conservatives. I think his plan is to win and hold the libs that got him there at bay as best he can. Which would still result in less liberalism being enacted than if Trump wins.
Unfortunately that's a dangerous game to play. But the alternative is stand aside and allow a man with a thoroughly documented life history of leftist support and 'promises' of hard right' positions take power.
Which is why I upgraded my PC, bought a VR headset and am washing my hands of this bastardized mess liberals made of America. We are screwed even if Cruz wins and lives up to his promises because he will be stuck governing a country with almost no one but actual conservatives recognizing his presidency. The handful of us that still draw breath.
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I just managed to dump about 6 paragraphs of reply....The joys of unfamiliar controls on a forum ;)
But in condensed form, ...
Cruz mistook most Christians and most Americans for people of integrity willing to stand behind the crap they spout online and to their friends. The last several elections show that most on the right of America are no more Christian or American in actual deed than the king of Saudi Arabia. "Christians' today are thoroughly infiltrated by the left which is why so many are pro abortion/homo/immigration.
I think Cruz has little choice other than strange alliances since he cannot...CANNOT trust so called conservatives. I think his plan is to win and hold the libs that got him there at bay as best he can. Which would still result in less liberalism being enacted than if Trump wins.
Unfortunately that's a dangerous game to play. But the alternative is stand aside and allow a man with a thoroughly documented life history of leftist support and 'promises' of hard right' positions take power.
Which is why I upgraded my PC, bought a VR headset and am washing my hands of this bastardized mess liberals made of America. We are screwed even if Cruz wins and lives up to his promises because he will be stuck governing a country with almost no one but actual conservatives recognizing his presidency. The handful of us that still draw breath.
As I like to say here...we are past the debt red line. We will be to the point in a few years where the interest on the debt is going to seriously start sapping tax revenue, and that's if interest rates don't spike.
How much economic pain we suffer depends on who's in charge and what steps they take, now. Cruz will be the only one who will even try to deal with that. Anyone else? L2A - Learn to Live Amish.
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As I like to say here...we are past the debt red line. We will be to the point in a few years where the interest on the debt is going to seriously start sapping tax revenue, and that's if interest rates don't spike.
How much economic pain we suffer depends on who's in charge and what steps they take, now. Cruz will be the only one who will even try to deal with that. Anyone else? L2A - Learn to Live Amish.
I live about an hour away from the largest Amish community in the country.
You'd better believe I've thought about joining them considering the debauchery in this country, sanctioned by the left, and now by Trump.
There may be no where else to go............
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As I like to say here...we are past the debt red line.
One of many lines we crossed. I get that people are hoping beyond hope that a white knight will ride in and fix it. That IMO is the appeal of Trump. It's an illusion because 1: America is too far gone on a number of levels besides, 2: The American PEOPLE are too far gone to salvage as evidenced by their demonstrated actions and 3: There is no genuine desire by a majority to change course.
Some of us here and elsewhere very much want course correction. But we are a small minority and as firm as our beliefs, actions and principles may be, we are few and no one wants to stand with us.
It sucks. Royally. But it is demonstrated reality. We absolutely should do all within our power to fight for the America our countrymen pissed away. But we are simply too few to alter the course they set America on.
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I live about an hour away from the largest Amish community in the country.
You'd better believe I've thought about joining them considering the debauchery in this country, sanctioned by the left, and now by Trump.
There may be no where else to go............
They are the next county over (and a few on the edge of mine) just a few miles away. I'm gunning for property in the middle of that as we speak, if I can find something affordable. I already got most of the skills.
When the welfare gravy train gets cut back, and it will have to get cut back to pay interest or default, then it gets interesting.
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I actually think the Conservative purity test is the real idiocy, and we knocked out several decent candidates this time around.
We have practiced choosing the "lessor of evils" in every national election since Reagan and the country has gone hard Left and taken over in a velvet coup by Marxists.
If Principles are easily discarded for expedience, then they were never Principles to begin with, and morals and cores will be as lightweight as a dandelion seed caught in the breeze; it will fly wherever the wind blows, and the only anchor will be to gravitate to raw power and control.
We used to call that tyranny by the way.
Castigating Principles as idiocy is how we have arrived where this nation finds itself in the first place.
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In many ways, the transgendered bathroom controversy is an excellent illustration of the Conservative movement in America: a whole lot of people who are not Conservative and can give a rat's ass about the Constitution identify as Conservatives and demand to be seen that way.
Snowflakes. They are not discernible from BLM or the average college student today in mindset. So they will get the country they fought so desperately to bring about. Sucks for us, but I sleep well knowing that their fall will be spectacular.
Can't stop it. Might as well enjoy the view.
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We have practiced choosing the "lessor of evils" in every national election since Reagan and the country has gone hard Left and taken over in a velvet coup by Marxists.
If Principles are easily discarded for expedience, then they were never Principles to begin with, and morals and cores will be as lightweight as a dandelion seed caught in the breeze; it will fly wherever the wind blows, and the only anchor will be to gravitate to raw power and control.
We used to call that tyranny by the way.
Castigating Principles as idiocy is how we have arrived where this nation finds itself in the first place.
VERY well stated and ABSOLUTELY true! :beer: :patriot:
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We have practiced choosing the "lessor of evils" in every national election since Reagan and the country has gone hard Left and taken over in a velvet coup by Marxists.
I don't think it has much to do with ideology. We put up a bunch of unappealing candidates and we lost. Dems did the same thing during the Reagan years. Ideology isn't that relevant when deciding electibility.
If Principles are easily discarded for expedience, then they were never Principles to begin with, and morals and cores will be as lightweight as a dandelion seed caught in the breeze; it will fly wherever the wind blows, and the only anchor will be to gravitate to raw power and control.
We used to call that tyranny by the way.
Castigating Principles as idiocy is how we have arrived where this nation finds itself in the first place.
Principles are good, but the reality of living a democracy (we are a democratic republic) is that electibility is always, always an issue. What good is it to remain firm on your principles but lose mindlessly every 4 years? I don't see the value in that.
Balance, we need balance.
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Seems like it's a little of both. But the perfect conservative candidate is an illusion, and the purity test is a ruse cooked up by talk radio hosts to keep people nice and angry.
Purity is good, at least in an ideological sense. In Personal behaviour, and in business or political dealings purity indicates the ability of that person to adhere to that ideology. While it is easy to decry the concept of the candidate who is 100% what is desired as the "perfect standing in the way of the good", consider that some things are deal breakers. Some candidates have everything but that one thing which breaks the deal.
For instance, if you have not seen this, wait for the song. It provides a shining example of that sort of situation. (WARNING: mild language and sexual references).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4_Bxqp2tQU
All in fun mind you, and with no intent to offend anyone.
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I don't think it has much to do with ideology. We put up a bunch of unappealing candidates and we lost. Dems did the same thing during the Reagan years. Ideology isn't that relevant when deciding electibility.
Principles are good, but the reality of living a democracy (we are a democratic republic) is that electibility is always, always an issue. What good is it to remain firm on your principles but lose mindlessly every 4 years? I don't see the value in that.
Balance, we need balance.
You get unappealing losers because you abandon principle. Thats how Mitt Romney lost to Barry. We told people he would not win. And as usual people new better.
And if he'd won? More dead babies to feed his stericycle profits. More gay 'rights'. More Gun Control.
So why do it again and again which demonstrably moves the next election even further left? Wich it unarguably has since 1988. There is only one reason. People want abortion, gun control and the rest. If they did not, they would not try electing people with lifetime histories supporting those causes.
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I don't think it has much to do with ideology. We put up a bunch of unappealing candidates and we lost. Dems did the same thing during the Reagan years. Ideology isn't that relevant when deciding electibility.
Principles are good, but the reality of living a democracy (we are a democratic republic) is that electibility is always, always an issue. What good is it to remain firm on your principles but lose mindlessly every 4 years? I don't see the value in that.
Balance, we need balance.
We are not a democratic republic; we are a representative constitutional republic.
And, as for principles we (the GOP) haven't had those in a long time! Could be that a real conservative could actually win as opposed to the mushy-mainstream-tending-towards-the-left guys we've been running!
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One of many lines we crossed. I get that people are hoping beyond hope that a white knight will ride in and fix it. That IMO is the appeal of Trump. It's an illusion because 1: America is too far gone on a number of levels besides, 2: The American PEOPLE are too far gone to salvage as evidenced by their demonstrated actions and 3: There is no genuine desire by a majority to change course.
Some of us here and elsewhere very much want course correction. But we are a small minority and as firm as our beliefs, actions and principles may be, we are few and no one wants to stand with us.
It sucks. Royally. But it is demonstrated reality. We absolutely should do all within our power to fight for the America our countrymen pissed away. But we are simply too few to alter the course they set America on.
I've said it here Norm before all the FR flock migrated here, but I'll put it out there again. Alot of the right wing has always talked about this country going to dictatorship and martial law and all that.
To that I say pffft. We don't have the financial position to pull that off. Moreover I think the powers that be don't want to see the United States of America in any form, because we are too strong even as a leftist dictatorship. I think they want to shift the power back to the Old World.
What I see they want is a breakup, and turn us into several smaller less powerful nations. It will be at the point where DC is completely financially impotent, and the states are forced to act. I can see a rump state of NE and Great Lakes states, a block of interior states as another, Russia taking back Alaska, China taking the west coast, Mexico trying to take some SW states, and some states ceding to Canada.
I fully expect the state of Texas to go it alone and take many states with it, and be the new capital at some point. That's a radical concept, but when DC runs out of money, something's going to have to give.
I live in one of the interior states, it's my hope that I'll be part of a new more conservative nation at some point.
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You get unappealing losers because you abandon principle.
One does not follow the other. If conservative principles were automagically appealing, they'd win the primary and general election every time. Nope, doesn't work like that.
Reagan had his principles and he converted many people a long the way, but none of it would have happened if he wasn't such a likable candidate in the first place. There's nothing magical about conservative principles that make them win every time.
The middle of country, the "low info" voters that decide elections, usually decide on how much they like a person and would want to have a beer with them. Conservative principles are irrelevant.
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Except that no one asked for purity. We asked for conservatism. We hear this excuse every 2 years and thats all it is. An excuse.
Norm, this is Marcella from FR. I just joined this forum yesterday. I always read your posts on FR and posted to you at times. You are a conservative and I was not surprised JR stayed on your case. I was not zotted but left without an opus, just stopped posting. I never called anyone names, but I did post one time, calling Trump supporters the "Trumpcult", and got hammered by old time Freepers who "were" my friends. I knew then, (plus Jim started zotting old timers because they said they would not vote for Trump), I could not stay there. I stopped posting on political threads last January.
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I live about an hour away from the largest Amish community in the country.
You'd better believe I've thought about joining them considering the debauchery in this country, sanctioned by the left, and now by Trump.
There may be no where else to go............
You live near "Banshee", PA?
Uh....do you know "Rebecca"? :smokin:
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........I fully expect the state of Texas to go it alone and take many states with it, and be the new capital at some point. That's a radical concept, but when DC runs out of money, something's going to have to give.
I live in one of the interior states, it's my hope that I'll be part of a new more conservative nation at some point.
AZ here. I can totally see that happening. On FR I said somewhat similar myself. We are too 'diverse' philosophically. Which is why the founders wanted people to come here and 'become' Americans in a melting pot while the liberals in both parties divide everything about us to radical degrees.
And of course, the schools, churches and basically all 'institutions' do it. From SJW types screaming about 'cultural appropriation' to Obama's anti-white BS. Only one outcome possible.
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Which is why this time is so discouraging to me. "We" got the conservatism option at the top, but the numbers do not look good at all. I voted Cruz in the primary, but, I cannot help but note that his "messaging" is not all that appealing to me. Sharing a platform with Glenn Beck really alarmed me. I can overlook that, but do not understand it. All I can discern is that he thought Christians could and would rise in his support, but they have not. In fact, people who claim to be Christian are supporting a man who never has repented of his sins.
He expected the Christians in the south to rise in support, but that didn't happen. Wasn't that just about the same time the National Enquirer allegations of infidelity came out? (Which turned out to be nothing, but the damage, even temporary in nature, was done.
I liken the timing of waves of smear tactics against Cruz to this: You can run with a lit torch. You can run through a puddle of gasoline, but doing both at the same time might have some really bad results. Someone always seemed to get that puddle of gasoline there in time for the vote.
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One does not follow the other. .... Conservative principles are irrelevant.
Yet one has in fact demonstrably followed the other since 1988. Conservative principles built America and are never irrelevant.
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Yet one has in fact demonstrably followed the other since 1988. Conservative principles built America and are never irrelevant.
They are irrelevant to the electorate in how they vote. The GOP field is riddled with "Principled Conservative" candidates that went nowhere, because they had no personal appeal. See Alan Keys or any of the other freeper candidates.
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Yet one has in fact demonstrably followed the other since 1988. Conservative principles built America and are never irrelevant.
:amen:
Damn it's good to have you here Norm!
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They are irrelevant to the electorate in how they vote. The GOP field is riddled with "Principled Conservative" candidates that went nowhere, because they had no personal appeal. See Alan Keys or any of the other freeper candidates.
I think you should take time and reflect on what brought you to the conclusion that A: principled candidates are irrelevant to the electorate. The logical endgame of which, if true, is a vote for a liberal Dem. And B: that the GOP is somehow Riddled" with principled anything other than principled leftism. Candidates with principle do not win because only principled people vote for them. Which speaks well for said candidates and voters...not so well from those voting against them.
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I think you should take time and reflect on what brought you to the conclusion that A: principled candidates are irrelevant to the electorate. The logical endgame of which, if true, is a vote for a liberal Dem. And B: that the GOP is somehow Riddled" with principled anything other than principled leftism. Candidates with principle do not win because only principled people vote for them. Which speaks well for said candidates and voters...not so well from those voting against them.
I'm just saying, to the general electorate, principles mean jack squat. There are plenty of "principled conservative" candidates that went exactly nowhere.
It does no good to stand on principles but lose every time. No good whatsoever.
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Principles are good, but the reality of living a democracy (we are a democratic republic) is that electibility is always, always an issue. What good is it to remain firm on your principles but lose mindlessly every 4 years? I don't see the value in that.
Balance, we need balance.
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Rubbish. The Founders would vehemently disagree with you. You espouse exactly what they knew would be one of the key ingredients to the same fate that befell every other "democratic republic" before ours. You cannot have liberty, you cannot have freedom, you cannot have a Constitution without morality and Principles being the cornerstone of a people who choose their rulers with the same values and principles.
We stand indicted as a whole People without morals or a Constitution, and what you see is just the beginning of those fruits: the tyranny of men.
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Rubbish. The Founders would vehemently disagree with you. You espouse exactly what they knew would be one of the key ingredients to the same fate that befell every other "democratic republic" before ours. You cannot have liberty, you cannot have freedom, you cannot have a Constitution without morality and Principles being the cornerstone of a people who choose their rulers with the same values and principles.
We stand indicted as a whole People without morals or a Constitution, and what you see is just the beginning of those fruits: the tyranny of men.
Another one outta the park!
BRAVO!!!
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I'm just saying, to the general electorate, principles mean jack squat. There are plenty of "principled conservative" candidates that went exactly nowhere.
It does no good to stand on principles but lose every time. No good whatsoever.
But what is the positive outcome for electing people like Mitch, Ryan, Bhoner, Ryan and attempts at Dole, Romney and the rest? What did they do better than a Harry Reid? Last year they sided with Dems 100% of the time on every big issue.
So why "NOT" stand on principle and lose? At the minimum, you still have personal integrity if nothing else. The GOP Leftist backers lost or had their people forward leftism AND are responsible for their election. Without principle, without principled govt, you have America 2016. Are you satisfied with that choice? If you are, so be it. If you are not, your worldview failed you and the rest of us.
One or the other.
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The middle of country, the "low info" voters that decide elections, usually decide on how much they like a person and would want to have a beer with them. Conservative principles are irrelevant.
This is exactly why we have arrived where we have as a nation in decline.
And how Republics devolve into horrifying dictatorships.
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You cannot have liberty, you cannot have freedom, you cannot have a Constitution without morality and Principles being the cornerstone of a people who choose their rulers with the same values and principles.
I don't disagree with you, but we live in a Republic and elected officials still run that Republic. What good is it to lose every time?
We have the "Principled" conservative candidate in the primary (nearly) every election, but they go nowhere. Because they have no mass appeal.
Conservatism will go nowhere, and go down with the Whigs and no-nothings, if they consistently lose elections every time. Base conservatism is greying and dying out. Losing elections makes you a loser in the eyes of the public.
The simple fact is that value and principles are great, but they must be balanced with pragmatism. This is reality. Anything else is just conservative, talk-radio fantasy.
Plus there's the simple fact that there is no such thing as the "perfect candidate". Winning elections means compromise. Period.
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This is exactly why we have arrived where we have as a nation in decline.
And how Republics devolve into horrifying dictatorships.
So what's the solution then?
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AZ here. I can totally see that happening. On FR I said somewhat similar myself. We are too 'diverse' philosophically. Which is why the founders wanted people to come here and 'become' Americans in a melting pot while the liberals in both parties divide everything about us to radical degrees.
And of course, the schools, churches and basically all 'institutions' do it. From SJW types screaming about 'cultural appropriation' to Obama's anti-white BS. Only one outcome possible.
I have supported Texas secession for years. All the liberals can depart for points east. Texas could go it alone.
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I have supported Texas secession for years. All the liberals can depart for points east. Texas could go it alone.
I think you'd be amazed at how many states would go with you.
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I have supported Texas secession for years. All the liberals can depart for points east. Texas could go it alone.
As you well know there is a growing movement for just that here in Texas and if we get either HIllary or Trump for president I will be instantly onboard!
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I don't disagree with you, but we live in a Republic and elected officials still run that Republic.
We are no longer a Republic except in Name Only. When the Executive can overtly subvert the Constitution without consequence and the people demand breads and circuses with a serving of punishment and revenge by Populist Nationalists and Marxists appeal to the basest forms of human nature, a republic no longer exists.
We have the "Principled" conservative candidate in the primary (nearly) every election, but they go nowhere. Because they have no mass appeal.
You made my whole point, and John Adams' prophetic point about our Constitution only being able to govern a moral and religious people.
Conservatism will go nowhere, and go down with the Whigs and no-nothings, if they consistently lose elections every time.
Enjoy the Fascist Dictatorship and Mobocracy that now rules us then. Practice life on your knees and licking palms that promise you your heart's desires.
The simple fact is that value and principles are great, but they must be balanced with pragmatism.
The nation has followed your recipe for "pragmatism" for over 100 years - with an 8-year hiccup in the 1980s. What we have become, is exactly what you want.
Plus there's the simple fact that there is no such thing as the "perfect candidate". Winning elections means compromise. Period.
Again, you made my whole point. Welcome to Ameritopia, you should do well if you are careful to avoid what usually happens to Useful Idiots when the next phase of where we have arrived is empowered.
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As you well know there is a growing movement for just that here in Texas and if we get either HIllary or Trump for president I will be instantly onboard!
Do you have a spare bedroom? A loft? Corner in a shed? If the back holds up, I'm good at traditional manly-man chores.
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Enjoy the Fascist Dictatorship and Mobocracy that now rules us then. Practice life on your knees and licking palms that promise you your heart's desires.
Enjoy it? Won't you have to live in the same country? I'm not ok with the political situation, never have been. I'm just trying to tell you the reality of the situation.
The nation has followed your recipe for "pragmatism" for over 100 years - with an 8-year hiccup in the 1980s. What we have become, is exactly what you want.
Again, you made my whole point. Welcome to Ameritopia, you should do well if you are careful to avoid what usually happens to Useful Idiots when the next phase of where we have arrived is empowered.
So what is your solution then? Continue trying to nominate candidate who cannot and will not win?
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As you well know there is a growing movement for just that here in Texas and if we get either HIllary or Trump for president I will be instantly onboard!
Wasn't that tried, once before? :pondering:
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Do you have a spare bedroom? A loft? Corner in a shed? If the back holds up, I'm good at traditional manly-man chores.
You are welcome here anytime my friend! Anytime at all!
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Enjoy it? Won't you have to live in the same country? I'm not ok with the political situation, never have been. I'm just trying to tell you the reality of the situation.
So what is your solution then? Continue trying to nominate candidate who cannot and will not win?
If you pragmatists voted for them instead of 'pragmatically" they WOULD win. Simple math.
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Wasn't that tried, once before? :pondering:
Yes it was and for the exact same reasons! This is now ant that was then!
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If you pragmatists voted for them instead of 'pragmatically" they WOULD win. Simple math.
I'll vote for Cruz. I'll vote for Alan Keyes. I'll vote for any principled candidate you want. They will still lose and go nowhere.
Great? So where does that get us?
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Enjoy it? Won't you have to live in the same country? I'm not ok with the political situation, never have been. I'm just trying to tell you the reality of the situation.
I do not think the vast,vast majority of people in this land have any idea what the *reality* of our situation actually is.
So what is your solution then? Continue trying to nominate candidate who cannot and will not win?
History teaches that we are past the point of stopping tyranny via civil means.
No Republic endures. It is the most fragile of governing systems - and it requires a moral and religious people to maintain it.
We are no longer those people.
Exactly as you have excellently illustrated. The superficial trumps principles. Therefore, we lost what we were warned we would lose when we embrace the very things you have espoused.
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I do not think the vast,vast majority of people in this land have any idea what the *reality* of our situation actually is.
History teaches that we are past the point of stopping tyranny via civil means.
No Republic endures. It is the most fragile of governing systems - and it requires a moral and religious people to maintain it.
We are no longer those people.
Exactly as you have excellently illustrated. The superficial trumps principles. Therefore, we lost what we were warned we would lose when we embrace the very things you have espoused.
Ok, so what is your solution? Just accept the coming Gotterdamurung and be done with it? Pick up a weapon and overthrow the government via force?
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I'll vote for Cruz. I'll vote for Alan Keyes. I'll vote for any principled candidate you want. They will still lose and go nowhere.
Great? So where does that get us?
One vote closer than when this conversation began. If more did the same, we would win.
Or you can keep electing pragmatic candidates like Mitch McColnel, John Bhoner and their ilk and then go on the internet crying the blues that you didn't get the principled government you claim to prefer.
Now my tyrn. How, in detail please, do you propose to get America on track by consistently electing people you don't believe in, trust, or even want?
Any child inherently understands if he goes to the ice cream shop and orders strawberry he will not get chocolate. Thats simply reality. Likewise, any thinking individual cannot logically conclude they will recieve x by putting their support behind Y. The world does not and never has worked that way. To think one gets something by supporting it's opposite is literally madness.
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This discussion is getting so good we might have to split the topic off, even if we have strayed from the thread's intent.
@Bigun and I have discussed this a few times here - states are key. This is why the Founders set us up as they did. Not only can they do conservative things to stop the tide, but when, not if, DC becomes too financially impotent to do anything, it will be up to the states to step up and take leadership.
So as much as I'm interested in the Presidency and national activism, I'm much more into state activism.
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Ok, so what is your solution? Just accept the coming Gotterdamurung and be done with it? Pick up a weapon and overthrow the government via force?
It likely won't come to that. DC will just run out of money to do anything, either by default of interest payments sucking all the tax dollars up. Then the states will have to act.
We may even remain a de facto country, but there will be nations within nations at that point. Coalitions or confederacies, call them what you will.
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Any child inherently understands if he goes to the ice cream shop and orders strawberry he will not get chocolate. Thats simply reality. Likewise, any thinking individual cannot logically conclude they will recieve x by putting their support behind Y. The world does not and never has worked that way. To think one gets something by supporting it's opposite is literally madness.
I am SO stealing that line! It is just perfect! :beer:
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Do you have a spare bedroom? A loft? Corner in a shed? If the back holds up, I'm good at traditional manly-man chores.
Come on down, Lando! (Do you do dishes?)
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I am SO stealing that line! It is just perfect! :beer:
Please do ;)
Not one person in the history of FR was ever able to counter it without devolving into leftist dogma.
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Ok, so what is your solution? Just accept the coming Gotterdamurung and be done with it? Pick up a weapon and overthrow the government via force?
The answer is self-evident as history teaches.
Once the consequences of unprincipled rulers already sown are experienced by far greater a number and by far deeper miseries, the concept of liberty and freedom itself will be seen as a threat - and in that environment, bloodbaths take place, led by those lofted up to messianic positions.
A people devoid of common morality and principles that the majority deem not to be pragmatic will simply lead to another French Revolution and Terror.
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- states are key. This is why the Founders set us up as they did.
Yes I agree, any turnaround (if one is possible) will have to start on the state level first. A key component (to my mind, the key component) is taking control of education away from those in control of it now. Return to the teaching standards of the pre-1960s and perhaps the course we are on can be changed.
Unfortunately, it would probably take a generation of time to wrest back control of the education system, and another generation or two before positive results would be seen, and I just don't think the country has that much time left. I give us perhaps another 20 years before the "end" (whatever form it takes) arrives. And perhaps not that long: the acceleration of our devolution as a society in just the last 8 years has been breathtaking.
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The answer is self-evident as history teaches.
Great, so we have a bloody revolution. Then what? We'll still have the non-liberty loving people electing the same people we got last time.
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The answer is self-evident as history teaches.
And there's a 'university' full of teachers. One of the things that is so frustrating about this whole thing is that people still come up with the "Well what to we do then?" excuse. Where to begin? The basics.
#If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
#Think before inserting the fork in the wall outlet a second (20th) time.
#If what you do isn't getting the desired result, stop doing it.
#If it hurts, don't do that.
...for starters. I list the basics of self preservation because I cannot believe some people are remotely aware with the actual history of this planet. If they were, they would slap themselves for some of the positions they take repeatedly.
So that leaves a binary option. They WANT the chaos/evil their actions have led to, or they really need to do some research before continuing to vote for their own destruction as their positions are not supportable by history or logical outcome.
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As you well know there is a growing movement for just that here in Texas and if we get either HIllary or Trump for president I will be instantly onboard!
I belong to the Texas Nationalist Movement, used to go to meetings but have no time lately. I have 13 acres, like-minded neighbors, looking to get a solar well pump and a greenhouse. I might have to get real serious soon.
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And there's a 'university' full of teachers. One of the things that is so frustrating about this whole thing is that people still come up with the "Well what to we do then?" excuse. Where to begin? The basics.
#If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
#Think before inserting the fork in the wall outlet a second (20th) time.
#If what you do isn't getting the desired result, stop doing it.
#If it hurts, don't do that.
...for starters. I list the basics of self preservation because I cannot believe some people are remotely aware with the actual history of this planet. If they were, they would slap themselves for some of the positions they take repeatedly.
So that leaves a binary option. They WANT the chaos/evil their actions have led to, or they really need to do some research before continuing to vote for their own destruction as their positions are not supportable by history or logical outcome.
I don't see any specific there.
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Yes I agree, any turnaround (if one is possible) will have to start on the state level first. A key component (to my mind, the key component) is taking control of education away from those in control of it now. Return to the teaching standards of the pre-1960s and perhaps the course we are on can be changed.
Unfortunately, it would probably take a generation of time to wrest back control of the education system, and another generation or two before positive results would be seen, and I just don't think the country has that much time left. I give us perhaps another 20 years before the "end" (whatever form it takes) arrives. And perhaps not that long: the acceleration of our devolution as a society in just the last 8 years has been breathtaking.
I agree, and I can't speak for every state, but here in Iowa that wouldn't be a hard job of people would get involved. Most rural schools are pretty good for that reason. There are other things, like reigning in the teacher's unions, which is also possible at the state level.
If I had a list of priorities, it would be:
1. Education reform
2. Voter ID
3. Reeling in the public unions
4. Reigning in welfare
5. Keeping illegal immigration in check.
States can do these and other things. Scott Walker took on many of these. We have a GOP majority in many states and the ability to do these things there too if we wish.
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Great, so we have a bloody revolution. Then what? We'll still have the non-liberty loving people electing the same people we got last time.
No. Not just a bloody revolution - but a bloodbath. Vengeance. Punishment upon those whom will be blamed for the misery. Death for those who did not support the king, the dictator and the monarch. This whole election cycle ought to give you a window into the psyche of the people in this nation. Look what happened at FR.
A microcosm of what will transpire beyond just the texted word when real hurt begins to spread.
To paraphrase Scripture: If they are going to do this when the tree is green, what are they going to do when it is dried and withered?
AND - you might reread the Founders. A people no longer bound by common religion and morality cannot maintain the kind of Republic and liberty that we have enjoyed in this country.
They will vote for a monarchy or dictator if it promises them bread every single time.
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If I had a list of priorities, it would be:
1. Education reform
2. Voter ID
3. Reeling in the public unions
4. Reigning in welfare
5. Keeping illegal immigration in check.
States can do these and other things. Scott Walker took on many of these. We have a GOP majority in many states and the ability to do these things there too if we wish.
Good stuff, but we still need to win elections to gain these things.
Also problem with #5. How much can states do about II? Obama has handcuffed a lot of state's ability to deal with illegals, plus, on a practical level states have a hard time keeping illegals out on their own.
This is why we need to win federal elections and the Presidency.
Which goes back to my original argument about electibility vs. "principles". The two aren't necessarily in conflict, but they are also not one and the same.
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No. Not just a bloody revolution - but a bloodbath. Vengeance.
So we start rounding up people and executing them?
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And there's a 'university' full of teachers. One of the things that is so frustrating about this whole thing is that people still come up with the "Well what to we do then?" excuse. Where to begin? The basics.
#If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
#Think before inserting the fork in the wall outlet a second (20th) time.
#If what you do isn't getting the desired result, stop doing it.
#If it hurts, don't do that.
...for starters. I list the basics of self preservation because I cannot believe some people are remotely aware with the actual history of this planet. If they were, they would slap themselves for some of the positions they take repeatedly.
So that leaves a binary option. They WANT the chaos/evil their actions have led to, or they really need to do some research before continuing to vote for their own destruction as their positions are not supportable by history or logical outcome.
Exactly. Obviously common sense no longer exists, and I assign that to the fact this nation has been given over to strong delusion - to want the lie, and only hear smooth and easy things.
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Good stuff, but we still need to win elections to gain these things.
Also problem with #5. How much can states do about II? Obama has handcuffed a lot of state's ability to deal with illegals, plus, on a practical level states have a hard time keeping illegals out on their own.
This is why we need to win federal elections and the Presidency.
Which goes back to my original argument about electibility vs. "principles". The two aren't necessarily in conflict, but they are also not one and the same.
We already have. The GOP controls many states, close to controlling others. That's why we work at the state level.
#5 - states can require e-verify, they can control welfare, housing, many other things to prevent illegals from coming to their state.
All of those basically work to cut the Dems off at the knees. They enhance electability of Republicans where they get passed.
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So we start rounding up people and executing them?
They will be rounding us up.
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I don't see any specific there.
Will you just ignore it again if I repost it again from the last time? Specifically, you vote for what you want. If thats conservative governance, you vote for conservative candidates. You do not vote for leftists and pie in the sky moderates and rationally expect to get the conservatism you claim to want. You vote for Conservative candidates, not spineless pragmatists that by definition, stand for expedience and not conservative beliefs and values.
If you do not vote for conservatives, the responsibility for government shifting left is yours (not just you, ANYONE sharing your position. I mean lets face facts. People that vote for conservatives are following the model enacted by the founders. People that vote pragmatically place victory over principle. Thats what pragmatic voting is. Thats what pragmatism is. Pragmatic and principled are on opposite ends of the universe.
So you have a choice. If you choose poorly, don't complain about people like Barry running America because it wasn't conservative voters that supported, nominated and failed to elect his pragmatic alternative. Likewise this election, people that choose pragmatism over principle can be again assured that they will do so without the help of conservatives with principle who still believe in the country the founders created.
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So we start rounding up people and executing them?
They are far more likely to come after us, or try anyway.
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This discussion is getting so good we might have to split the topic off, even if we have strayed from the thread's intent.
And with that, I'm gonna take the side of the Mods aka Our Gracious Hosts and recommend you all put this in the regular forum.
Or, to put it another way....
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55175334.jpg)
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They are far more likely to come after us, or try anyway.
History shows it's not just likely...It's a dead set certainty.
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And with that, I'm gonna take the side of the Mods aka Our Gracious Hosts and recommend you all put this in the regular forum.
Or, to put it another way....
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55175334.jpg)
Ah, but at TBR we can take entire thread of posts and split them off to a completely new topic thread. We are not static and fixed like the antiquated FR. :laugh:
I am inquiring about that as we speak.
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History shows it's not just likely...It's a dead set certainty.
And that's where the Governors come into play, and why our states need to be made as strong as possible, and why I believe in state activism before federal.
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Gonna start a new thread entitled Liberty or Tyranny using Norm's quote from above as the basis. See you there!
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Gonna start a new thread entitled Liberty or Tyranny using Norm's quote from above as the basis. See you there!
Being CCG and Archaelogy moderator I have spliting and merging powers, would you like me to begin the thread or merge into it?
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Any child inherently understands if he goes to the ice cream shop and orders strawberry he will not get chocolate. Thats simply reality. Likewise, any thinking individual cannot logically conclude they will receive x by putting their support behind Y. The world does not and never has worked that way. To think one gets something by supporting it's opposite is literally madness.
Norm Lenhart
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,202939.msg852739.html#msg852739
(To move the discussion from the welcome FR Refugees thread!)
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Being CCG and Archaelogy moderator I have spliting and merging powers, would you like me to begin the thread or merge into it?
For us Newbs with Teh StuPidZ in site navigation, what section is this going to? Under members only?
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Being CCG and Archaelogy moderator I have spliting and merging powers, would you like me to begin the thread or merge into it?
I've already started the thread so please merge if you will! Or. if need be, just do what you have to do and I will pull the one I started down.
Thanks!
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For us Newbs with Teh StuPidZ in site navigation, what section is this going to? Under members only?
Right now it's in the open forum under Politics.
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For us Newbs with Teh StuPidZ in site navigation, what section is this going to? Under members only?
CCG is the Cruz Caucus Group. It's under the 2016 Repub and Dem Primaries category. History/Archaelogy is in the General Category list.
CCG - http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/board,101.0.html
H/A - http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/board,94.0.html
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Right now it's in the open forum under Politics.
Got it. Gracias!
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Norm Lenhart
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,202939.msg852739.html#msg852739
(To move the discussion from the welcome FR Refugees thread!)
Truly this "Norm Lenhart" fellow is a brilliant yet humble individual ;)
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Come on down, Lando! (Do you do dishes?)
Cook. Dishes. Pool cabana boy...
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Being CCG and Archaelogy moderator I have spliting and merging powers, would you like me to begin the thread or merge into it?
Oh it's so good when
You do
Dat voodoo
Dat you do!
0005
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Norm Lenhart
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,202939.msg852739.html#msg852739
(To move the discussion from the welcome FR Refugees thread!)
To expand on that, I am reminded of the quote "We hold these things to be self evident...".
We all get bogged down arguing minutia. But we often lose the big picture completely. There are simply some things we have to agree are 'true' or 'factual' in order for any meaningful discussion or debate to happen. There has to be a starting point.
It does little good to argue conservative value with people that believe that abortion or men in womens' bathrooms is in fact a conservative value. And thats what I'm getting at with the quote you posted.
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I'm going to split the posts then merge, just going to take a bit.
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Norm Lenhart
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,202939.msg852739.html#msg852739
(To move the discussion from the welcome FR Refugees thread!)
Norm, I love that. I'm stealing it.
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Pool cabana boy...
Not that there's anything WRONG with that... ;)
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Truly this "Norm Lenhart" fellow is a brilliant yet humble individual ;)
Yes he is! Hi Norm! :patriot:
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To expand on that, I am reminded of the quote "We hold these things to be self evident...".
We all get bogged down arguing minutia. But we often lose the big picture completely. There are simply some things we have to agree are 'true' or 'factual' in order for any meaningful discussion or debate to happen. There has to be a starting point.
It does little good to argue conservative value with people that believe that abortion or men in women's' bathrooms is in fact a conservative value. And thats what I'm getting at with the quote you posted.
I fully understand that Norm! And it goes to the EXACT problem we are facing here and now! People who claim to be conservative but who are somehow willing to excuse ANYTHING Trumps says or does simply because they don't want Hillary! It makes no sense to me!
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I'm going to split the posts then merge, just going to take a bit.
KOOL! Thanks! :beer:
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Yes he is! Hi Norm! :patriot:
Silver Pines will vouch for my incredible humility ;)
BTW how does one ping someone here?
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Very cool to snip off a discussion and start a new thread.
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Silver Pines will vouch for my incredible humility ;)
BTW how does one ping someone here?
Just use the @, for example: @Norm Lenhart
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Silver Pines will vouch for my incredible humility ;)
BTW how does one ping someone here?
It is a very rudimentary thing right now but I can ping you by simply putting an @ symbol in front of your name like this: @Norm Lenhart
You can see your pings by clicking on your profile info tab and scrolling down to mentions! (Mentions are pings here)
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Silver Pines will vouch for my incredible humility ;)
BTW how does one ping someone here?
@Norm Lenhart...I can as well...enjoyed our conversations/discussions at TOS.
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"...how do you propose to get America on track by consistently electing people you don't believe in, trust, or even want?"
That's it in a nutshell. That is why we are in the dire situation that we are in. To often we have voted for someone that we don't believe in, we don't agree with, that we know is not good for the country with the excuse that they are the lesser of the two evils. Yet, we continue to do the same thing and expect to get the same result. Having an 'R' by their name is not enough reason to vote for them.
I have stated several times and I'll state it again; we can either be part of the destruction that we are currently witnessing or we can be a part of restoring this country. I will NOT support someone who I feel will continue to lead us towards our demise.
#Never Trump.
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Not that there's anything WRONG with that... ;)
Lando's cruisin' for cougars. :smokin:
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I fully understand that Norm! And it goes to the EXACT problem we are facing here and now! People who claim to be conservative but who are somehow willing to excuse ANYTHING Trumps says or does simply because they don't want Hillary! It makes no sense to me!
I can't tell you how many times I and others holding our position have spent hours on FR arguing this issue. Many people simply do not want to accept that their actual beliefs put them squarely in moderate land at best. And while I think that's the wrong place to be, I don't see what benefit there is in proclaiming one is something their actions and words show they arent.
If someone wants to support X candidate, so be it. If they want to support X issue, so be that too. But there is only one reason I can see for people to support blatantly 'opposite' positions and claim conservatism. They are trying to infiltrate, disrupt and destroy it.
I spent over a decade in the MSM at the regional/above level. I know it when I see it. I am far from unique in that knowledge. And when you look at the mess of FR today, thats exactly what destroyed it as an honest broker of information. Some/quite a few there were obviously plants/disruptors. Some just for the LOLZ, some paid campaign/or advocacy types.
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People who claim to be conservative but who are somehow willing to excuse ANYTHING Trumps says or does simply because they don't want Hillary!
There's no surer way to make Hillary the next President than to support the one candidate who is despised more than she is.
Face it - Trumpsters are Hillary enablers. The only question is whether they intend that result, or are too stupid to understand or care what they're doing.
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Just use the @, for example: @Norm Lenhart
That was hard ;) Thanks!
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@Norm Lenhart...I can as well...enjoyed our conversations/discussions at TOS.
Same here and thank you.
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When the Obergfell decision came down, my first actions was not to call my Congressman. It was to call my County Commissioners. I wonder if even ten people in the whole county did that.
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I can't tell you how many times I and others holding our position have spent hours on FR arguing this issue. Many people simply do not want to accept that their actual beliefs put them squarely in moderate land at best. And while I think that's the wrong place to be, I don't see what benefit there is in proclaiming one is something their actions and words show they aren't.
If someone wants to support X candidate, so be it. If they want to support X issue, so be that too. But there is only one reason I can see for people to support blatantly 'opposite' positions and claim conservatism. They are trying to infiltrate, disrupt and destroy it.
I spent over a decade in the MSM at the regional/above level. I know it when I see it. I am far from unique in that knowledge. And when you look at the mess of FR today, that's exactly what destroyed it as an honest broker of information. Some/quite a few there were obviously plants/disruptors. Some just for the LOLZ, some paid campaign/or advocacy types.
You have no need to tell me because I was there in the middle of them myself until I left a few years ago and you are dead on right about the paid disrupters as well!
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Great, so we have a bloody revolution. Then what? We'll still have the non-liberty loving people electing the same people we got last time.
If it comes to that, we're lost. I think what will happen is that power will end up concentrated in the Executive to the point where the Legislative has lost all significance. When that happens, some revolutionary will attempt to restore the balance by force, or by assassination. History has shown, however, that any such revolution generally picks up at the level of tyranny maintained by the rulers it has overthrown.
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There's no surer way to make Hillary the next President than to support the one candidate who is despised more than she is.
Face it - Trumpsters are Hillary enablers. The only question is whether they intend that result, or are too stupid to understand or care what they're doing.
Its the cult of personality. People are dead tired of the status quo and are reacting to the only one who actually appears different. Most don't care what is said about him, or even what he does. He portrays himself as different then the system they hate and feel abused by.
You must break the system before you can rebuild it. Many Trump supporters think the system will be rebuilt into the Republic we were given long ago. I think it will be rebuilt into a one world dictatorship where the individual has zero rights. The power will be held by the elites like Trump.
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You have no need to tell me because I was there in the middle of them myself until I left a few years ago and you are dead on right about the paid disrupters as well!
I think there's a certain level of masochism involved as well. No joke. Not all those people are trolling or paid so whatever their number, there are some folks that have to like the humiliation they bring on themselves.
Seriously. On what planet in what multiverse can a serious person hold positions like abortion/Pro gay/anti-Christian etc. and say with a straight face in a mirror, much less in public, "I am a Conservative"? Thats simply not supportable in light of facts to the contrary. Conservatism 'is' pro life, pro freedom of Religeon and pro Hetro/traditional.
If you go out there claiming the things these people claim as conservative positions, you (general sense) gotta know you'll get massive blowback. You gotta WANT that kind of self debasement.
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They will be rounding us up.
Facebook execs haven't been visiting the WH for private meetings 500 times for nothing.
Fill out those stupid questionnaires to "See what color you are", etc., provides a thumbnail sketch to anybody trained, when used with your own "shares" and "likes".
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean somebody's not actually trying to get you.
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I think there's a certain level of masochism involved as well. No joke. Not all those people are trolling or paid so whatever their number, there are some folks that have to like the humiliation they bring on themselves.
Seriously. On what planet in what multiverse can a serious person hold positions like abortion/Pro gay/anti-Christian etc. and say with a straight face in a mirror, much less in public, "I am a Conservative"? Thats simply not supportable in light of facts to the contrary. Conservatism 'is' pro life, pro freedom of Religeon and pro Hetro/traditional.
If you go out there claiming the things these people claim as conservative positions, you (general sense) gotta know you'll get massive blowback. You gotta WANT that kind of self debasement.
Hmmm! That is a point I have not previously considered but it makes sense IF your purpose is simply to disrupt an otherwise honest exchange of ideas!
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Think I got it all all the posts from the old thread!
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Think I got it all all the posts from the old thread!
Thanks, Free Vulcan.
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A lot of conservatives argue for a new "Constitutional Convention"... well what good would that do? You'd still have an electorate out there still wanting the trappings of statism. That's why winning elections is key.
Great, so we all vote for "principled conservatives". Wonderful. We hare .00000001% of the population. What will change?
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Think I got it all all the posts from the old thread!
Great job! Thanks! Have another :beer:
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Great job! Thanks! Have another :beer:
Well sure, you twisted my pinkie finger...
:beer:
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Hmmm! That is a point I have not previously considered but it makes sense IF your purpose is simply to disrupt an otherwise honest exchange of ideas!
I look at things like this in a very binary way and get slammed for it a lot. However, A thing is a thing, or it is another thing. It cannot be two things at once and this isn't Schrodinger's politi-Cat.
I have seen people argue endlessly that "Well we can't really say/agree what is conservative and what isn't". Which is what one would expect a pragmatist type would say. Anything to avoid standing for something. I mean God knows Conservative ideals are some nebulous entity that no one ever pinned down before /s
So they are either filled with bovine waste product or they are outright liars as conservatism/ideals/principles are well established and the opposite of the crap they spread around. Because they like the abuse it brings them.
One would think more fun could be had in Vegas with a few hundred bucks. Better quality of abuse and done privately.
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I look at things like this in a very binary way and get slammed for it a lot. However, A thing is a thing, or it is another thing. It cannot be two things at once and this isn't Schrodinger's politi-Cat.
I have seen people argue endlessly that "Well we can't really say/agree what is conservative and what isn't". Which is what one would expect a pragmatist type would say. Anything to avoid standing for something. I mean God knows Conservative ideals are some nebulous entity that no one ever pinned down before /s
So they are either filled with bovine waste product or they are outright liars as conservatism/ideals/principles are well established and the opposite of the crap they spread around. Because they like the abuse it brings them.
One would think more fun could be had in Vegas with a few hundred bucks. Better quality of abuse and done privately.
Did you know IronJack over at TOS? You guys would have gotten along REALLY well I think!
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Did you know IronJack over at TOS? You guys would have gotten along REALLY well I think!
Recognize the name but I don't think we ever spoke. Maybe once or twice at best unless my memory is going (likely).
What's his stance on Existential Cage Theory ;)
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Recognize the name but I don't think we ever spoke. Maybe once or twice at best unless my memory is going (likely).
What's his stance on Existential Cage Theory ;)
Dunno! He is the former editor of a large newspaper and was once a very prolific poster at FR. You remind me a lot of him!
I think he made himself scarce over there quite awhile ago.
Looks like he's still posting over there.
Here is one of his latest:
To: PJ-Comix
If Ed Dionne got an award every time he was spectacularly wrong, especially about conservative politics, he’d need to add on to his penthouse to store them.
19 posted on 4/27/2016, 10:04:56 AM by IronJack
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Rubbish. The Founders would vehemently disagree with you. You espouse exactly what they knew would be one of the key ingredients to the same fate that befell every other "democratic republic" before ours. You cannot have liberty, you cannot have freedom, you cannot have a Constitution without morality and Principles being the cornerstone of a people who choose their rulers with the same values and principles.
We stand indicted as a whole People without morals or a Constitution, and what you see is just the beginning of those fruits: the tyranny of men.
Precisely!
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I look at things like this in a very binary way and get slammed for it a lot. However, A thing is a thing, or it is another thing. It cannot be two things at once and this isn't Schrodinger's politi-Cat.
I have seen people argue endlessly that "Well we can't really say/agree what is conservative and what isn't". Which is what one would expect a pragmatist type would say. Anything to avoid standing for something. I mean God knows Conservative ideals are some nebulous entity that no one ever pinned down before /s
So they are either filled with bovine waste product or they are outright liars as conservatism/ideals/principles are well established and the opposite of the crap they spread around. Because they like the abuse it brings them.
One would think more fun could be had in Vegas with a few hundred bucks. Better quality of abuse and done privately.
goopo
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I have to go take care of my domestic chores before the boss gets home! BBL!
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Dunno!
Existential Cage Theory:
1: Get a cage
2: Put the liberal in the cage
3: Weld the door shut
4: Walk away
AKA "Normie's foolproof plan for salvaging America" ;)
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It likely won't come to that. DC will just run out of money to do anything, either by default of interest payments sucking all the tax dollars up. Then the states will have to act.
We may even remain a de facto country, but there will be nations within nations at that point. Coalitions or confederacies, call them what you will.
THESE United States originally were a Federation of Sovereign States, each possessing a governor, Secretary of State, treasury, Militia (army), etc. The purpose of the Federal Government was to provide for the common defense, coin money, keep the post roads open, and be an arbiter of disputes between the states. We did not have a National Government until after the War Between the States.
We may be able to revert to the idea of Sovereign States, but will more likely balkanize into smaller federations based on trade and mutual issues and resources. The monkey wrench in all that comes from the existence of an outside body which has been lent legitimacy in practice and precedent despite out Constitution, and the possibility of foreign intervention into those affairs based on their 'national interests' (like the billion dollar paper products mill the Chinese are putting in Arkansas.
By selling off interests in this country to foreign investors we sell them the presumed right to defend those interests, and the key to the gates to engage in warfare to defend them---as we have done in interventionist wars since WWII.
That is the greatest danger, in that those States would possibly have to fight another national government, and possibly our own at the same time. They would not be able to count on the military resources of the United States.
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Its the cult of personality. People are dead tired of the status quo and are reacting to the only one who actually appears different. Most don't care what is said about him, or even what he does. He portrays himself as different then the system they hate and feel abused by.
You must break the system before you can rebuild it. Many Trump supporters think the system will be rebuilt into the Republic we were given long ago. I think it will be rebuilt into a one world dictatorship where the individual has zero rights. The power will be held by the elites like Trump.
Yes, but the power will be held by Clinton, a Democratic Congress, and a liberal SCOTUS. That's what's inevitable if we give Trump the nomination. We can't rebuild the Republic if we commit political suicide (by allowing Trump to commit political murder).
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Rubbish. The Founders would vehemently disagree with you. You espouse exactly what they knew would be one of the key ingredients to the same fate that befell every other "democratic republic" before ours. You cannot have liberty, you cannot have freedom, you cannot have a Constitution without morality and Principles being the cornerstone of a people who choose their rulers with the same values and principles.
We stand indicted as a whole People without morals or a Constitution, and what you see is just the beginning of those fruits: the tyranny of men.
Early on in the Rising of The Trump, I tied to make note of the dangers of allowing pragmatism to override the moral sense. Many - most? - equate pragmatism with practicality. So that appeal fell on deaf ears, I suppose. The Natural Law foundation of inalienable rights must be the baseline reference. Any idea that claims to advance liberty without reference to that and a demonstrable agreement with it, is wood, hay and stubble.
Merely parroting "pro-God" and "Christian nation" is the thinnest gruel in contrast to the deep, coherent and ancient ideals that our Founders drew upon.
The problem, let me say THE problem, is that these matters do not make for snappy little 15 second sound bites. Nor do they stimulate the baser of our passions. They are not entertaining. They may nor affirm my autonomy.
The fact that these ideals were instinctual from the Founding to, perhaps the late 19th century, gave us a remarkable run as a Republic. The bloody 20th century has taken us right back to pre-Revolutionary France.
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The fact that these ideals were instinctual from the Founding to, perhaps the late 19th century, gave us a remarkable run as a Republic. The bloody 20th century has taken us right back to pre-Revolutionary France.
Pretty much. The only real difference I see is they collectively were better educated/far more intelligent/thinking. Which is why so much effort was expended by the left to stupify Americans through generations of educational indoctrination.
Sadly it worked phenomenally well.
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Yes, but the power will be held by Clinton, a Democratic Congress, and a liberal SCOTUS. That's what's inevitable if we give Trump the nomination. We can't rebuild the Republic if we commit political suicide (by allowing Trump to commit political murder).
I personally don't think there would be any difference policy wise between Hillary and Trump. Hillary is more corrupt. Trump is just as liberal but ignorant of the statecraft necessary to lead a country. Trump is also far more charasmatic which makes him more dangerous.
Maybe Hillary will get indicted so Joe Biden can step in.
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I personally don't think there would be any difference policy wise between Hillary and Trump. Hillary is more corrupt. Trump is just as liberal but ignorant of the statecraft necessary to lead a country. Trump is also far more charasmatic which makes him more dangerous.
Maybe Hillary will get indicted so Joe Biden can step in.
The irony is that had the Dems gone with Biden over Hillary, Bernie would have a LOT less people on board. The really pathetic part is that he would be a far superior president than either of them. Which is more an indication of their unsuitability to the job than his competence for it.
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Facebook execs haven't been visiting the WH for private meetings 500 times for nothing.
Fill out those stupid questionnaires to "See what color you are", etc., provides a thumbnail sketch to anybody trained, when used with your own "shares" and "likes".
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean somebody's not actually trying to get you.
The sheer paucity of the liberal argument is the most likely avenue of its own defeat. Liberals can only pursue their mad agenda by becoming more and more strident, more offensive, and more ridiculous. This whole bathroom brouhaha is a perfect example. They're demanding that people deny common sense, and that the 250-pound hairy ape standing in a ladies' room peeing beside an 8-year-old girl is a victim!
People can see through the absurdity, and it makes the whole liberal foundation shake.
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The sheer paucity of the liberal argument is the most likely avenue of its own defeat. Liberals can only pursue their mad agenda by becoming more and more strident, more offensive, and more ridiculous. This whole bathroom brouhaha is a perfect example. They're demanding that people deny common sense, and that the 250-pound hairy ape standing in a ladies' room peeing beside an 8-year-old girl is a victim!
People can see through the absurdity, and it makes the whole liberal foundation shake.
It's my opinion that the bathroom debacle is going to be cited as one of the main reasons Donald Trump may take the Oath next January.
The Left ALWAYS overreaches.
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It's my opinion that the bathroom debacle is going to be cited as one of the main reasons Donald Trump may take the Oath next January.
The Left ALWAYS overreaches.
**nononono*
Donald Trump IS the left! Always has been!
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It's my opinion that the bathroom debacle is going to be cited as one of the main reasons Donald Trump may take the Oath next January.
The Left ALWAYS overreaches.
But, Trump was FOR the bathroom debacle!
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But, Trump was FOR the bathroom debacle!
Exactly. Once again proving how FAR left he really is.
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They're demanding that people deny common sense, and that the 250-pound hairy ape standing in a ladies' room peeing beside an 8-year-old girl is a victim.
They are doing this on TOS and yet its being celebrated. They are working for their 30 pieces of silver.
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If it comes to that, we're lost. I think what will happen is that power will end up concentrated in the Executive to the point where the Legislative has lost all significance. When that happens, some revolutionary will attempt to restore the balance by force, or by assassination. History has shown, however, that any such revolution generally picks up at the level of tyranny maintained by the rulers it has overthrown.
We are already there. The legislature has already nullified itself to the dictatorship to the Executive it has constructed. Same with SCOTUS.
Trump and Sanders are continuations of the punitive 'revolutionary' meme that has taken hold of the populace via a Populist Nationalist/Liberal and an overt Marxist/Socialist.
As divided as we now are, without the core religious and moral commonality we once had - the concept of liberty is impossible.
The tyranny of men is already present and unquenchable.
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I have seen people argue endlessly that "Well we can't really say/agree what is conservative and what isn't". Which is what one would expect a pragmatist type would say. Anything to avoid standing for something...
So they are either filled with bovine waste product or they are outright liars as conservatism/ideals/principles are well established and the opposite of the crap they spread around. Because they like the abuse it brings them
I think a huge majority of self-identifying "Conservatives" just want to feel the "win". They see the presidential race like a sporting event, and they got their favorite team to root for so they can feel good about themselves, not caring a whit about what the actual core principles of their chosen "caesar" are. As long as they get what they think they are entitled to and as long as their ears are tickled, they will vote for whomever the herd looks to make king or queen. Principles are no longer valued in this country anymore.
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Ohhh... I was deleting a post that had been put on this thread inadvertently and I was numb-headed enough to delete someone else's post. I am not sure who it belonged to.
I am so sorry.
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Ohhh... I was deleting a post that had been put on this thread inadvertently and I was numb-headed enough to delete someone else's post. I am not sure who it belonged to.
I am so sorry.
I'll try to find it..
found it and restored it....
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I look at things like this in a very binary way and get slammed for it a lot. However, A thing is a thing, or it is another thing. It cannot be two things at once and this isn't Schrodinger's politi-Cat.
I have seen people argue endlessly that "Well we can't really say/agree what is conservative and what isn't". Which is what one would expect a pragmatist type would say. Anything to avoid standing for something. I mean God knows Conservative ideals are some nebulous entity that no one ever pinned down before /s
So they are either filled with bovine waste product or they are outright liars as conservatism/ideals/principles are well established and the opposite of the crap they spread around. Because they like the abuse it brings them.
One would think more fun could be had in Vegas with a few hundred bucks. Better quality of abuse and done privately.
You said, "I look at things like this in a very binary way and get slammed for it a lot. However, A thing is a thing, or it is another thing. It cannot be two things at once ..."
I am studying the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas, master philosopher and "doctor" of the church, and he has much to say about "thing", "things", - what a "thing" is and what it is not. Perhaps you are kin to Aquinas.
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You said, "I look at things like this in a very binary way and get slammed for it a lot. However, A thing is a thing, or it is another thing. It cannot be two things at once ..."
I am studying the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas, master philosopher and "doctor" of the church, and he has much to say about "thing", "things", - what a "thing" is and what it is not. Perhaps you are kin to Aquinas.
It's mostly just being a supporter of logical argument and reason distilled from a lot of sources. I half joked about standing on the shoulders of giants upthread but really, all this stuff has been established over millenia by the greatest thinkers. I find it simultaneously amusing and nauseating that the special little snowflakes think that they can simply mock it all away with one liner answers because their TV hero of the moment does it. Whether it be Trump or some supposedly 'conservative' radio host or a Fox News personality.
Actually a lot of this reminds me of a company I worked at in the 90s. There was a woman that the suits hired in marketing that was a buzzword factory. There was nothing that wasn't an 'issue'. Sometimes I think thats the only word she knew and had learned it watching "Friends".
She screwed up several departments with her idiocy because besides completely turning the place into a verbal Romper Room, she was wholly incompetent at the actual job she was hired to do. And thats what a lot of these people seem to be. They blast words around with abandon, thinking that their volume will overcome the vapidity of the ideas behind them. Because truth be told, there really ARE NO ideas behind them. Just 'feelings' and 'agendas'.
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It's mostly just being a supporter of logical argument and reason distilled from a lot of sources. I half joked about standing on the shoulders of giants upthread but really, all this stuff has been established over millenia by the greatest thinkers. I find it simultaneously amusing and nauseating that the special little snowflakes think that they can simply mock it all away with one liner answers because their TV hero of the moment does it. Whether it be Trump or some supposedly 'conservative' radio host or a Fox News personality.
Actually a lot of this reminds me of a company I worked at in the 90s. There was a woman that the suits hired in marketing that was a buzzword factory. There was nothing that wasn't an 'issue'. Sometimes I think thats the only word she knew and had learned it watching "Friends".
She screwed up several departments with her idiocy because besides completely turning the place into a verbal Romper Room, she was wholly incompetent at the actual job she was hired to do. And thats what a lot of these people seem to be. They blast words around with abandon, thinking that their volume will overcome the vapidity of the ideas behind them. Because truth be told, there really ARE NO ideas behind them. Just 'feelings' and 'agendas'.
I had an opportunity to watch an old Bowery Boys movie the other day on the television. I used to get a kick out of the way they'd use the wrong words...but now, after watching the news, seeing what passes for education in the grievance industry, and reading some of the gobbledygook that passes for job descriptions, not so much. I ended up changing the channel...
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It's mostly just being a supporter of logical argument and reason distilled from a lot of sources. I half joked about standing on the shoulders of giants upthread but really, all this stuff has been established over millenia by the greatest thinkers. I find it simultaneously amusing and nauseating that the special little snowflakes think that they can simply mock it all away with one liner answers because their TV hero of the moment does it. Whether it be Trump or some supposedly 'conservative' radio host or a Fox News personality.
Actually a lot of this reminds me of a company I worked at in the 90s. There was a woman that the suits hired in marketing that was a buzzword factory. There was nothing that wasn't an 'issue'. Sometimes I think thats the only word she knew and had learned it watching "Friends".
She screwed up several departments with her idiocy because besides completely turning the place into a verbal Romper Room, she was wholly incompetent at the actual job she was hired to do. And thats what a lot of these people seem to be. They blast words around with abandon, thinking that their volume will overcome the vapidity of the ideas behind them. Because truth be told, there really ARE NO ideas behind them. Just 'feelings' and 'agendas'.
Norm I could right a book in response to that simple statement but will refrain and simply say that when I read your earlier comment about "standing on the shoulders of giants" I didn't take it as anything other than a fact that should be true of every single one of us given the fact that we live in the greatest country ever to have existed on this planet and, like no other people before us, have at our fingertips 24/7 the entire recorded history of man. Sadly today, and unlike our founding fathers who really had to work at it, very few of us bother with even a cursory investigation of that record. Those that do quickly come to the realization that all of it is like an old phonograph that keeps playing the same few lines over and over again. We are the most intelligent beings on this globe by far and yet we INSIST on making the same stupid mistakes over and over again. Why that is I do not know. Is it a flaw in our design or is it a trait intentionally built into our very nature? Whatever the answer to that question is I seriously doubt that you or I are going to be able to change it at this late date. And even that is not an original thought!
"That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
Aldous Huxley
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We are the most intelligent beings on this globe by far and yet we INSIST on making the same stupid mistakes over and over again. Why that is I do not know. Is it a flaw in our design or is it a trait intentionally built into our very nature? Whatever the answer to that question is I seriously doubt that you or I are going to be able to change it at this late date. And even that is not an original thought!
You're probably familiar with the Kipling poem "Gods of the Copybook Headings," which is, I think appropriate here, for those not familiar with it. Note the mention of the dog returning to his vomit, and the "burnt fool's bandaged finger."
As I pass through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.
We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.
We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place;
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.
With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.
When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."
On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."
Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four —
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man —
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began: —
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
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Norm I could right a book in response to that simple statement but will refrain and simply say that when I read your earlier comment about "standing on the shoulders of giants" ...
Just to clarify, I was serious about the statement but the 'half joking' part was that it was 'me' saying it. Kind of an inside baseball/self mocking comment as many of the crapstorms over at TOS involving me usually included some special snowflake getting triggered and crying about my 'unrivaled arrogance' because I refuse to back down on positions I have taken. So I roll with it ;)
@Silver Pines and I have an ongoing joke about it.
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...As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man —
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began: —
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
So sad! And so very true!
Most appropriate indeed @Henry Noel! Welcome to TBR!
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So sad! And so very true!
Most appropriate indeed @Henry Noel! Welcome to TBR!
Many thanks!
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You're probably familiar with the Kipling poem "Gods of the Copybook Headings," which is, I think appropriate here, for those not familiar with it. Note the mention of the dog returning to his vomit, and the "burnt fool's bandaged finger."
I've been seeing that poem quoted a lot recently in different places online. It strikes me that Kipling understood the human condition a lot better than most people... which is probably why his poetry stopped being taught in schools. **nononono*
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Thanks for posting the poem @Henry Noel. Reading it was fortifying to my soul this morning. I sometimes (often) question my convictions when so many others claim them to be wrong. "Who am I to think I know more than so many others?"
I will not be marching off the cliff with all the other Trump soldiers this election. It will be hard for me as there is the slight chance that Trump could actually do some good for the country, but his moral compass does not point in that direction. The odds are much higher that he will hasten this country's demise even quicker than Hillary Clinton.
JR and TOS had much to do with my decision not to support Trump, disregarding his lack of Conservatism or a moral compass. Watching those that I had previously respected become the vilest of people and realizing their behavior of emulating Trump would become socially acceptable, was reason enough in itself to eschew him. If the man came to my dinner table and behaved as he does, I would have to ask him to leave as an example to my children. Vote for him for POTUS to be an example to all children?
Trump and his minions simply don't behave in a way that inspires confidence in me, not the less so since it reminds me of mobs in general. I liken the situation to the downfall of the Roman Republic, where constitutional ideas that had been handed down for generations got lost in the desire for strongmen to step in and act where the Senate either would not or could not take the lead. Situations like that just don't end well ... they always seem to end in tyranny.
Because of this, I, too, have a nagging feeling that a Trump presidency might actually be worse than the alternative.
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Just to clarify, I was serious about the statement but the 'half joking' part was that it was 'me' saying it. Kind of an inside baseball/self mocking comment as many of the crapstorms over at TOS involving me usually included some special snowflake getting triggered and crying about my 'unrivaled arrogance' because I refuse to back down on positions I have taken. So I roll with it ;)
@Silver Pines and I have an ongoing joke about it.
The Colossus of Norm
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The devil you know...
We could unite to fight against hillary or another dem. Under trump anyone speaking out against him will be attacked and marginalized.
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I've been seeing that poem quoted a lot recently in different places online. It strikes me that Kipling understood the human condition a lot better than most people... which is probably why his poetry stopped being taught in schools. **nononono*
Either that or they wanted little snowflakes instead of young men and women.
IF
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
==Rudyard Kipling==
Not taught to young men much any more, but it should be.
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We could unite to fight against hillary or another dem. Under trump anyone speaking out against him will be attacked and marginalized.
Which makes one wonder how such a Presidency would respond to constructive criticism, even from within the Party. I question the wisdom in promoting arrogance. That has numerous bad historical precedents in terms of outcome, not just for the one who is arrogant, but for entire continents.