The Briefing Room
General Category => Immigration/Border => Topic started by: rangerrebew on February 09, 2017, 02:34:56 pm
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Bill Kristol Backs More Immigration Because White Working Class is ‘Lazy and Spoiled’
February 9, 2017| by Donn Marten
There were few “conservatives” who were more vocal in their opposition to Donald Trump during the Republican primaries than pundit Bill Kristol. The ubiquitous neocon ideologue was the leader of the Never Trump movement and spent months trying to recruit an alternate candidate, eventually settling on former spook Evan McMullin.
Much to the chagrin of Kristol and other elitist travelers Trump went on to win the election and is now firmly ensconced in the White House.
Like a number of think tank fatheads who know what’s really good for real Americans Mr. Kristol has a huge disconnect on important economic issues and none more so than the threat to domestic workers represented by porous borders and foreign workers.
http://downtrend.com/donn-marten/bill-kristol-backs-more-immigration-because-white-working-class-is-lazy-and-spoiled
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Guilt feelings? I see by the view of his tum tum, he has has not short changed couch potatoing, himself. :silly:
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Bill Kristol Says ‘Lazy’ White Working Class Should Be Replaced By ‘New Americans’
Daily Caller, Feb 8, 2017, Alex Pfeiffer
Weekly Standard editor-at-large Bill Kristol said Tuesday afternoon that the white working class should be replaced by immigrants as they have become “decadent, lazy” and “spoiled.”
“Look, to be totally honest, if things are so bad as you say with the white working class, don’t you want to get new Americans in?” Kristol told author Charles Murray during an event hosted by the American Enterprise Institute titled “It Came Apart: What’s Next for a Fractured Culture.” Murray recently wrote a book, entitled “Coming Apart,” which focuses on the cultural separation between the wealthiest and most educated white Americans and the poorest and least educated white Americans.
Before delving into his theory about replacing the white working class, Kristol said that he hopes “this thing isn’t being videotaped or ever shown anywhere. Whatever tiny, pathetic future I have is going to totally collapse.”
“You can make a case that America has been great because every — I think John Adams said this — basically if you are in free society, a capitalist society, after two or three generations of hard work everyone becomes kind of decadent, lazy, spoiled — whatever,” Kristol said.
“Then, luckily, you have these waves of people coming in from Italy, Ireland, Russia, and now Mexico, who really want to work hard and really want to succeed and really want their kids to live better lives than them and aren’t sort of clipping coupons or hoping that they can hang on and meanwhile grew up as spoiled kids and so forth. In that respect, I don’t know how this moment is that different from the early 20th century,” he added.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/08/bill-kristol-says-lazy-white-working-class-should-be-replaced-by-new-americans/#ixzz4YCYC3rmo
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWJSKhEwjy8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWJSKhEwjy8
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Hmmm...I wonder if the NTs support their poster child. :pondering:
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I wonder if Kristol knows that he's discounted the entire national ideal of a nation of citizens with enough personal freedom to climb as far as their abilities will carry them.
Besides, if Kristol is right hispanic neighborhoods would be the most affluent in the land. Unless he also subscribes to the 'white privilege' BS as well.
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Now we understand why the GOP Establishment is so hell-bent on open borders.
We 'old white people' are lazy and spoiled. Third world squatters are not.
No wonder the GOP was so willing to hand Obama everything wanted.
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Now we understand why the GOP Establishment is so hell-bent on open borders.
We 'old white people' are lazy and spoiled. Third world squatters are not.
No wonder the GOP was so willing to hand Obama everything wanted.
Drop the "White" and he's mostly right about lazy Americans. We live in a fantasy world where all kids have to go to college and will all earn 6 figures and get 3 months of vacation and no one ever gets their hands dirty or risk anything more dangerous than a papercut. We're a society demanding $15 per hour to work in fast food restaurants.
On the other hand, Illegals aren't cheap any more and are demanding more sooner. The SEIU will turn a factory in to immigration for hiring illegals only to wait for the illegals to be processed so they can unionize them and send them right back to the factory that was raided.
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Funny how the white guy only wanted to talk about the "Lazy White Working Classs." I guess he has no problem with the lazy minority nonworking class. Why can't we replace them. Who the hell does he think is paying all the taxes to support all these people.
If we're going to get rid of people, could we start with Kristol. 22222frying pan
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Drop the "White" and he's mostly right about lazy Americans. We live in a fantasy world where all kids have to go to college and will all earn 6 figures and get 3 months of vacation and no one ever gets their hands dirty or risk anything more dangerous than a papercut. We're a society demanding $15 per hour to work in fast food restaurants.
On the other hand, Illegals aren't cheap any more and are demanding more sooner. The SEIU will turn a factory in to immigration for hiring illegals only to wait for the illegals to be processed so they can unionize them and send them right back to the factory that was raided.
I wonder how much the diminishing work ethic has to do with the fact that in many places the first rung on the career ladder has been taken away from American teens. No more paper routes, fast food jobs, construction jobs, etc. Those jobs have been taken by middle aged low skilled immigrants willing to work them because, for whatever reason - usually because they are willing to live in relatively squalid conditions and/or their existence is publicly subsidized - their income needs are less and they're able to raise their kids on minimum wage.
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I wonder how much the diminishing work ethic has to do with the fact that in many places the first rung on the career ladder has been taken away from American teens. No more paper routes, fast food jobs, construction jobs, etc. Those jobs have been taken by middle aged low skilled immigrants willing to work them because, for whatever reason - usually because they are willing to live in relatively squalid conditions and/or their existence is publicly subsidized - their income needs are less and they're able to raise their kids on minimum wage.
The immigrant taking the job from American teens is clearly visible in fast food, in SoCal.
I frequent a few places, and notice mainly Hispanic immigrants making a career out of such employment.
They work hard (often two jobs), and are reliable. They NEED the jobs.
Some teens OTOH are not reliable, and don't need the job to the same extent.
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More likely if the jobs aren't filled, it will be replaced by automation. (see Cotton Gin or Auto-loom for reference).
If the domestic workforce is unwilling or out-priced in the market, the change may not see an effective growth of jobs but a growth of technology replacing manpower.
I seriously doubt you are going to get college kids taking 3 months in the summer off to go to rural farmlands, work 12 hours a day for less than minimum wage, busting their ass, and living in cramped migrant camps. More likely, some of those college kids will start inventing new technology to replace manual labor.
(same goes for manufacturing and other blue collar jobs that outsource or attract immigrant (legal and illegal) workforce)
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Topic on same article merged.
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Immigrants do jobs that Americans won't do. And they show up on time and work hard.
I agree with Bill Kristol. Immigration is vital to sustaining economic growth and keeping American business competitive.
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Well the resident Liberal just chimed in his support of Kristol's Establishment, LaRaza's and Democrat talking points.
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Well the resident Liberal just chimed in his support of Kristol's Establishment, LaRaza's and Democrat talking points.
You praised Bill Kristol when he was NeverTrump. As for me, what I care about is economic growth, and for that just about any reputable economist will tell you that immigration is required, especially when the native-born won't take, or lack the skills for, certain jobs.
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Immigrants do jobs that Americans won't do. And they show up on time and work hard.
I agree with Bill Kristol. Immigration is vital to sustaining economic growth and keeping American business competitive.
Just because its positive doesn't mean this gross stereotype is any more accurate than negative ones that are routinely & rightly condemned.
I've run into immigrants who worked hard, and immigrants who were lazy and not worth a damn.
If economic growth is what we want from our immigrants then we ought to vet for skills and aptitude. The low skill, illiterate ones are a net drain.
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You praised Bill Kristol when he was NeverTrump.
No. You lie.
I NEVER praised Bill Kristol because he is most definitively an Establishment Big Government Mordor On The Potomac lackey and always has been. His essays on Trump's unfitness for the job I may have agreed with - but that's not "PRAISE", that is simply recognizing that a stopped watch is correct twice a day.
As for me, what I care about is economic growth, and for that just about any reputable economist will tell you that immigration is required, especially when the native-born won't take, or lack the skills for, certain jobs.
And THAT is the bullshiiite Bushian/Establishment/Big Government/Open Borders Lie.
Importing third world squatters who immediately go on welfare IS NOT economic growth, but regressive.
But I don't expect liberal mindsets to comprehend that fact.
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what I care about is economic growth...
You cannot have economic growth with an open borders welfare state. You and your so-called vaunted economists are living in fantasyland if you actually believe we can.
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Support for immigration and its desirability for economic growth does not equate to support for "open borders".
"Importing third world squatters who immediately go on welfare" is a racist lie. Immigrants come here because American employers want and need their services.
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Seung Min Kim @seungminkim 48m48 minutes ago
!!!!! Trump told senators he is open to Gang of 8 immigration bill, per Manchin. Lamar brought it up during meeting and need for reform
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Support for immigration and its desirability for economic growth does not equate to support for "open borders".
"Importing third world squatters who immediately go on welfare" is a racist lie. Immigrants come here because American employers want and need their services.
Somewhere between 50-60% of immigrant households are on public assistance. Its not racist to suggest that most of those receiving benefits are the low skilled variety.
So while employers benefits by having this low skilled immigrant labor the rest of society picks up costs the employer avoids.
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Somewhere between 50-60% of immigrant households are on public assistance.
Can you provide a reputable link to support that?
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Can you provide a reputable link to support that?
First one I came across. (there are many others if you care to look)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/
This should not be understood as some kind of defect or moral failing on the part of immigrants," Camarota said about the findings. "Rather, what it represents is a system that allows a lot of less-educated immigrants to settle in the country, who then earn modest wages and are eligible for a very generous welfare system.
In other words, its no more immigrant welfare than its welfare for their employers.
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Can you provide a reputable link to support that?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/
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Thanks, skeeter and abaraxas.
Linda Chavez agrees with Camarota that the country's welfare system is too large and too costly. But Chavez, a self-professed conservative who worked in President Reagan's administration, said it's irresponsible to say immigrants are taking advantage of the country's welfare system any more than native-born Americans.
Chavez said today's immigrants, like all other immigrant waves in the country's history, start off poorer and have lower levels of education, making it unfair to compare their welfare use to the long-established native-born population. She said immigrants have larger households, making it more likely that one person in that household will receive some kind of welfare benefit. And she said many benefits counted in the study are going to U.S.-born children of immigrants, skewing the findings even more.
"When you take all of those issues into account, (the report) is less worrisome," she said.
Chavez, president of the Becoming American Institute, a conservative group that advocates for higher levels of legal immigration to reduce illegal immigration, said politicians should be careful about using the data. Rather than focus on the fact that immigrants are initially more dependent on welfare than the U.S.-born, she said they should focus on studies that show what happens to the children of those immigrants.
"These kids who get subsidized school lunches today will go on to graduate high school ... will go on to college and move up to the middle class of America," Chavez said. "Every time we have a nativist backlash in our history, we forget that we see immigrants change very rapidly in the second generation."
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Thanks, skeeter and abaraxas.
I read the article.
The fact is Invar's characterization is accurate.
@INVAR
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You cannot have economic growth with an open borders welfare state. You and your so-called vaunted economists are living in fantasyland if you actually believe we can.
QFT Sounds simple, but it's apparently a very difficult concept for many.
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Thanks, skeeter and abaraxas.
"... said it's irresponsible to say immigrants are taking advantage of the country's welfare system any more than native-born Americans."
IMMIGRANTS SHOULDN'T BE ON WELFARE!
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IMMIGRANTS SHOULDN'T BE ON WELFARE!
Anyone who supports "immigration" in the current environment and amidst the consequences already sown due to DECADES of open borders with COMMERCIALS being run in the third world for their unwanteds to come here and receive welfare and sustenance - is simply an advocate for national suicide on your dime.
End of sentence.
It's interesting where Jazz head's head is at in regards to matters most dire to the culture and the nation.
In short, I don't know where Pelosi ends and he begins.
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IMMIGRANTS SHOULDN'T BE ON WELFARE!
Why not? Shouldn't anyone who pays taxes to support the welfare system be able to access it if they should someday need it?
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Why not? Shouldn't anyone who pays taxes to support the welfare system be able to access it if they should someday need it?
If and when they become citizens. Not while they're still immigrants.
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It's interesting where Jazz head's head is at in regards to matters most dire to the culture and the nation.
I know where your head's at -
Importing third-world squatters who immediately go on welfare
I don't like to toss around the term loosely, because it's so often misused, but it fits to a tee here - that's racist.
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If and whey they become citizens. Not while they're still immigrants.
So they should pay the same taxes you do but not be able to receive the services those taxes pay for?
By the same logic, should immigrants be banned from public schools, even though they pay school taxes just as you do?
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Immigrants do jobs that Americans won't do. And they show up on time and work hard.
So they really don't need all the welfare benefits and entitlements we few remaining American taxpayers (white or otherwise) are funding?
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So they really don't need all the welfare benefits and entitlements we few remaining American taxpayers (white or otherwise) are funding?
Some "welfare" benefits target the working poor, such as food stamps or Section 8 housing. If your position is to do away with such benefits for all, then fine. But so long as these benefits are out there, a tax-paying immigrant working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family should have the same access as a tax-paying citizen working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family.
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Some "welfare" benefits target the working poor, such as food stamps or Section 8 housing. If your position is to do away with such benefits for all, then fine. But so long as these benefits are out there, a tax-paying immigrant working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family should have the same access as a tax-paying citizen working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family.
Get rid of the benefits for all and those Americans will suddenly be willing to do the jobs, that they aren't willing to do.
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So they should pay the same taxes you do but not be able to receive the services those taxes pay for?
By the same logic, should immigrants be banned from public schools, even though they pay school taxes just as you do?
1. Yes
2. Apples and oranges.
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1. Yes
Well, in my opinion that's profoundly unfair. At least let an immigrant pay less in taxes if he's not to be protected by the safety net his taxes are paying for.
2. Apples and oranges.
Why? Provide me with a principled distinction.
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Well, in my opinion that's profoundly unfair. At least let an immigrant pay less in taxes if he's not to be protected by the safety net his taxes are paying for.
Why? Provide me with a principled distinction.
What percentage of illegal immigrants pay payroll & property taxes? Sales tax doesn't count.
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What percentage of illegal immigrants pay payroll & property taxes? Sales tax doesn't count.
Neither Sanguine nor I are addressing illegals. She says that immigrants shouldn't be permitted to receive welfare unless and until they become citizens. I'm saying that's unfair because they pay the same taxes as you and I do to support the welfare system.
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Neither Sanguine nor I are addressing illegals. She says that immigrants shouldn't be permitted to receive welfare unless and until they become citizens. I'm saying that's unfair because they pay the same taxes as you and I do to support the welfare system.
I see.
The time to screen out immigrants from welfare benefits is when they apply for entry. Show a skill or resources enough to guarantee you won't be a burden to society.
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Well, in my opinion that's profoundly unfair. At least let an immigrant pay less in taxes if he's not to be protected by the safety net his taxes are paying for.
Why? Provide me with a principled distinction.
Nope - it doesn't matter what I say, you just treat it as something to be argued over. Not interested.
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Nope - it doesn't matter what I say, you just treat it as something to be argued over.
Sorry, I thought that was the point of a political discussion board.
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Sorry, I thought that was the point of a political discussion board.
Ah, ha! I think we have discovered part of the problem!
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I see.
The time to screen out immigrants from welfare benefits is when they apply for entry. Show a skill or resources enough to guarantee you won't be a burden to society.
Well, folks lose their jobs, or take jobs that pay squat. If a tax-paying citizen can avail himself of welfare when times are tough, then it seems to me that so can a tax-paying immigrant.
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Ah, ha! I think we have discovered part of the problem!
I guess. But I admit that I enjoy a good argument among smart people. That's why I like participating here.
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Well, folks lose their jobs, or take jobs that pay squat. If a tax-paying citizen can avail himself of welfare when times are tough, then it seems to me that so can a tax-paying immigrant.
A citizen who happens to be foreign born, sure.
But there is no moral imperative to avail a legal non-citizen all of the benefits US citizens have. If they don't like it they can choose not to come here.
I don't want immigrants seeking visas because its a great way to tap into taxpayer largess. Thats not how we attract the best and brightest.
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It's no longer Dem-versus-Republican anymore, so much as it is Elite Government Class versus Traditional Americans.
Oh, there's some Party-Allegiance friction; and the Dems do march in lockstep. But the reality is, the Elites want what the Elites want; and what they're fighting over is which claque gets to spend the money.
We're fighting for our COUNTRY here, and fat slobs like this poseur Kristol don't make it easy.
There's less difference, D versus R, than there is, sham-conservative Elites versus true conservatives.
FWIW, I stopped paying attention to Kristol's Never-Trump bleats when I saw the sort of ciphers he proposed to offer as alternatives. He may not have been a Pillory operative, but couldn't have been more clumsily obvious if he had been, and openly.
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Why not? Shouldn't anyone who pays taxes to support the welfare system be able to access it if they should someday need it?
No. Absolutely not. Benefits from taxpayers should only be available to bona-fide citizens. The rest can go to private charities if in need. There are plenty of them.
I don't like to toss around the term loosely, because it's so often misused, but it fits to a tee here - that's racist.
You are most certainly welcome to join your Liberal/Leftist/LaRaza compatriots to belt out that repeating chorus of cacophony to your heart's content.
See if I care. I wear such charges as badges of honor coming from people like you.
By the same logic, should immigrants be banned from public schools, even though they pay school taxes just as you do?
GOOD IDEA! I LIIIKE IT! If the schools actually taught American culture and focused on getting immigrants to assimilate along with doing the 3 R's like they used to, I could see the value of having immigrants attend public school.
But since they are Socialist/Marxist indoctrination camps, all they do is reinforce the Socialist/Marxist garbage immigrants already identify with given where they came from. In fact if memory serves, a whole slew of public schools do not even teach English to migrants anymore. Instead they do screwel in Spanish. So I like your idea of banning immigrants from public schools. Makes great sense.
a tax-paying immigrant working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family should have the same access as a tax-paying citizen working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family.
If YOU want to provide benefits to illegals - DO SO ON YOUR OWN DIME own your own effort. Stop telling the rest of us what we ought to provide for non-citizens on our dime.
I'm saying that's unfair because they pay the same taxes as you and I do to support the welfare system.
We don't care that you think it is unfair. You cannot go to any of the nations we are importing migrants from by the hundreds of thousands and millions and get ANY KIND of benefits or rights from their governments. You can go be a bleeding heart Leftie to your heart's content on your own dime.
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I guess. But I admit that I enjoy a good argument among smart people. That's why I like participating here.
I never said it was ALL of the problem.
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If economic growth is what we want from our immigrants then we ought to vet for skills and aptitude. The low skill, illiterate ones are a net drain.
Making sure the only immigrants you get are legal ones will go a long way to preventing that problem.