The Briefing Room
General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => Computers => Topic started by: EC on May 16, 2017, 05:34:58 am
-
Response to my last piece -- "Why Windows must die for the third time" -- was overwhelming. Hundreds of thousands of people read that article, and we had some very spirited talkbacks indeed.
A bunch of you came right out and said it: You don't want to upgrade from XP. You're angry that Microsoft made you upgrade from XP to 7, and 7 to 10. You're angry you need to update software continuously.
Waiting until you have a catastrophic failure or a major security event to upgrade your system is never a best practice.
A handful of you even suggested inflicting bodily harm on the hard-working programmers that write the software you don't want to upgrade to.
Look, I have brought up many reasons why upgrades are necessary. As my friend from Jersey, Johnny T. likes to say, you gotta do it.
It doesn't matter how many times I techsplain this, because some folks will always refuse to listen. Maybe it's because I write in long form and anything longer than 300 words is considered to be TL;DR these days. That's sad, and a topic for a different day.
Let me say this as simply as possible: If you are still using XP, you are the end-user equivalent of an anti-vaxxer. You are a menace to society and everyone around you. You are a walking malware vector. You should be shipped out to a remote island with no internet access to fend for yourselves so you can't infect anyone else.
And if you are an IT professional who serves in a decision-making capacity with an organization that continues to use XP or Windows Server 2003 and SQL Server 2005, you should be fired. You should never be allowed to work in the computer industry again.
You should not be allowed to touch a computer again either because you too are a menace. You are perpetuating the computer software equivalent of polio and smallpox.
More: http://www.zdnet.com/article/if-youre-still-using-windows-xp-youre-a-menace-to-society/
Punches pulled: Zero.
-
That depends on what you do with it.
I've got XP loaded on a machine for gaming. Specifically to run Unread Tournament. I believe it is the 1999 version. The computer is used for nothing else. It has an Asus 24" monitor that can run 144 Hz refresh rate though I can only achieve 120 Hz due to drivers issues. The refresh rate (frame rate) and monitor video delay (data in to pixel change) are all important for competitive play.
-
Hell, I still have a Win 3.1/DOS 6.22 machine in the workshop (special case - it runs a unique bit of software). Doesn't mean I'm going to hook it up to the Net.
Letting XP have unfiltered internet access nowadays is a bit like letting your toddler feed lions.
-
That depends on what you do with it.
Partly, the OP is stretching things. If you are behind a router, and never ever use IE, There isn't a lot to get at you. In that case, it is largely FUD.
I agree with the article in large part. It is too easy to get into a machine running at least Win7. But I have quite a few clients on XP yet... and they are largely absent from my bench. Remarkably so. I can't remember the last time I worked on an XP box. They are utterly absent.
I think it is so legacy that folks are no longer writing bugs for it - with the exception of ActiveX drivebys (which are not limited to XP), and which, if you are not using IE, and don't allow ActiveX in Firefox or Opera, you are completely immune to. Likewise Java and Flash exploits, but to a lesser degree.
-
I doubt an XP machine can run the newer operating systems
-
Partly, the OP is stretching things. If you are behind a router, and never ever use IE, There isn't a lot to get at you. In that case, it is largely FUD.
I agree with the article in large part. It is too easy to get into a machine running at least Win7. But I have quite a few clients on XP yet... and they are largely absent from my bench. Remarkably so. I can't remember the last time I worked on an XP box. They are utterly absent.
I think it is so legacy that folks are no longer writing bugs for it - with the exception of ActiveX drivebys (which are not limited to XP), and which, if you are not using IE, and don't allow ActiveX in Firefox or Opera, you are completely immune to. Likewise Java and Flash exploits, but to a lesser degree.
For gaming, XP is fast and low overhead. And yes, it is used behind a router/firewall so if you don't browse the net or use Email on it it is pretty safe.
I also have a LeCroy Wave Surfer 2 Gsps digital scope that uses XP as its OS. It isn't a problem and is expensive to replace.
-
I doubt an XP machine can run the newer operating systems
I have a cheap ASUS EEEPC netbook from the XP era running Mint with XCFE...
It is S-L-O-W-W-W-w-w-W-W.
But, all I do with it anymore is listen to podcasts or youtube at night before sleep, or in the kitchen while I am cooking, or in my pack with buds while I am walking... It is great for that...
Though I would like a nix with a smaller footprint, still capable of that function and light PIM, which I used to use it for. I would love to have it back, fast enough for PIM.
-
tech ping @ShadowAce
-
For gaming, XP is fast and low overhead. And yes, it is used behind a router/firewall so if you don't browse the net or use Email on it it is pretty safe.
I don't think it is THAT unsafe if you are using the latest Opera to support XP, and web email... I would normally say Firefox, but I think Opera was the last to drop XP support... or maybe Chrome... so the latest browser you can get will be one of those... hopefully with a decent ad blocker and script blocker.
But you will also be using outdated Java and Flash, which is more of a problem, unless you can get to a browser capable of html5, where Java and Flash are less necessary. It will still puke on java heavy or flash heavy sites, but I think you could get around some.
I also have a LeCroy Wave Surfer 2 Gsps digital scope that uses XP as its OS. It isn't a problem and is expensive to replace.
Heh. I hear that. I still have clients with industrial equipment running my hacked DOS7.10/Win98 mini... Still running, but getting awfully hard to find replacement equipment for.
-
Though I would like a nix with a smaller footprint, still capable of that function and light PIM, which I used to use it for. I would love to have it back, fast enough for PIM.
Puppy Linux is a much smaller distro, but I don't know if it is capable of what you want.
-
Puppy Linux is a much smaller distro, but I don't know if it is capable of what you want.
I know... One of these days I am going to have to try. I tried two different small Linux distros when I first set it up... but I don't remember which. I assume one was Puppy (as I am somewhat familiar), but I simply can;t remember.
One of these days, I want to stuff a N series WLAN in it (if I can, I don't know if it is soldered or a card), and I will probably address it then.
All the same, that is a crappy box from the XP era that is 'running' Mint.
-
All the same, that is a crappy box from the XP era that is 'running' Mint.
or walking it
:silly:
-
or walking it
:silly:
LOL! no lie.
If I REALLY wanted to get kinky, I would gut the thing and try to hide a rasberry pi in there.I think it would have way more power.
That'd be a kinda fun waste of valuable time...
-
Lol, author can bite me, I am doing great with my XP with icedragon (firefox knock off) browser. I block flash from most sites, I run a cookie eater add-on, I run a nice adblock program with good team of nice 3rd party folks updating it almost daily and a free antivirus program. I don't do email for the most part and I use common sense and don't download anything that I don't want to. If iffy, I can open something in a sandbox so it can't harm my system. Plus I do no credit cards on computer. I back up pictures and important stuff regularly on a remote external hard drive.
If someone does manages to actually compromise my system, I just wipe it clean and start fresh. I keep backups of my programs or use free stuff that is easily downloaded to start anew. So far, I never have had a problem.
Maintenance is simple, I take my box out to the shed ever couple of months and blow it out with a air hose so the fans and such don't drown in dust.
The rest of the family of course has faster computers. I still managed to take each one under my wing and google for a few days how to remove all the crapware they put on them before I let the kids/wife have their new computers back.
-
LOL! no lie.
If I REALLY wanted to get kinky, I would gut the thing and try to hide a rasberry pi in there.I think it would have way more power.
That'd be a kinda fun waste of valuable time...
My first computer was so slow I learned basic HTML from watching websites load...
-
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z347/ShadowAce1800/Tech_Ping_1.png)
@BikkFire @geronl @Smokin Joe @roamer_1 @Blizzardnh @markomalley @VarmintAl @Doug Loss @Rikki Tikki Tavi @guitar4jesus
@kevindavis @Oceander
-
Add me to the tech ping please ace?
-
Heh. I hear that. I still have clients with industrial equipment running my hacked DOS7.10/Win98 mini... Still running, but getting awfully hard to find replacement equipment for.
eBay...
-
Add me to the tech ping please ace?
You've been added! Welcome!
-
I think it is so legacy that folks are no longer writing bugs for it - with the exception of ActiveX drivebys (which are not limited to XP), and which, if you are not using IE, and don't allow ActiveX in Firefox or Opera, you are completely immune to. Likewise Java and Flash exploits, but to a lesser degree.
Still running XP. No problems for years. The problems quit when I stopped updating the OS.
-
Still running XP. No problems for years. The problems quit when I stopped updating the OS.
Microsoft actually did one last update for XP the other day for this lastest cryto scare. It is free, and a small download. I did it just in case. Worked fine, figured wouldn't hurt to fix a blantant hole in their software.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=55245
@Smokin Joe
-
Microsoft actually did one last update for XP the other day for this lastest cryto scare. It is free, and a small download. I did it just in case. Worked fine, figured wouldn't hurt to fix a blantant hole in their software.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=55245
@Smokin Joe
Thanks!
-
But you will also be using outdated Java and Flash, which is more of a problem, unless you can get to a browser capable of html5, where Java and Flash are less necessary. It will still puke on java heavy or flash heavy sites, but I think you could get around some.
I am still able to get Flash updates but I have to download the stand alone download and install it. I actually perfer it this way to be honest.
Bottom of this linked below page to get download.
https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/installation-problems-flash-player-windows.html
@roamer_1
-
I have a dell 4300 running XP Professional. If it had an ethernet connection port instead of a dial-up telephone thingie I'd be surfing the interweb like it was 1999.
-
I am still able to get Flash updates but I have to download the stand alone download and install it. I actually perfer it this way to be honest.
Bottom of this linked below page to get download.
https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/installation-problems-flash-player-windows.html
That's excellent! What browser and version are you using?
@Sighlass
-
I have a dell 4300 running XP Professional. If it had an ethernet connection port instead of a dial-up telephone thingie I'd be surfing the interweb like it was 1999.
Whoa. That thing came with WinME or XP gold. What a lucky guy /sarc
-
I have a dell 4300 running XP Professional. If it had an ethernet connection port instead of a dial-up telephone thingie I'd be surfing the interweb like it was 1999.
I've currently still got all my old computers starting with an IBM PC-1 with the monochrome display. It also has the CGA adapter installed... The next one is a 20 MHz Dell 386 with 16 MB of RAM. The RAM cost a small fortune back then (1987 I think). And they continue from there every few years...
-
I've currently still got all my old computers starting with an IBM PC-1 with the monochrome display. It also has the CGA adapter installed... The next one is a 20 MHz Dell 386 with 16 MB of RAM. The RAM cost a small fortune back then (1987 I think). And they continue from there every few years...
My first brand new tech purchase was a hdd for my Tandy 486sx... I'd jacked it up with a Kingston super chip to make it a 100DX... But the 40mg hard drive died, and I went and bought one brandy new... What massive vistas I had ... That drive was like looking across Monument Valley... Who could EVER fill up 200mg? It was crazy.
-
I've currently still got all my old computers starting with an IBM PC-1 with the monochrome display. It also has the CGA adapter installed... The next one is a 20 MHz Dell 386 with 16 MB of RAM. The RAM cost a small fortune back then (1987 I think). And they continue from there every few years...
Nice.
I have a Tandy 1000 or 2000 I don't remember which sitting in storage. I finally ditch my TI 99 4a 5 years ago.
-
Nice.
I have a Tandy 1000 or 2000 I don't remember which sitting in storage. I finally ditch my TI 99 4a 5 years ago.
I still have a SYM-1, but I can't remember when I've fired it up. I pitched the VT100 monitor I used with it. I'd have to use the Hex Keypad and LED Display to use it.
(http://oldcomputers.net/pics/sym-1.jpg)
-
I still have a SYM-1, but I can't remember when I've fired it up. I pitched the VT100 monitor I used with it. I'd have to use the Hex Keypad and LED Display to use it.
(http://oldcomputers.net/pics/sym-1.jpg)
Wow. At least the Tandy had a regular CRT 13 inch monitor!
-
I still have a SYM-1, but I can't remember when I've fired it up. I pitched the VT100 monitor I used with it. I'd have to use the Hex Keypad and LED Display to use it.
(http://oldcomputers.net/pics/sym-1.jpg)
Cool! The first processor I used was a Z80 and I wire wrapped the perfboard assembly together and wrote the code by hand on paper in machine code, hand calculating the jump and call offsets/locations... It used fuse-link ROM to hold the code that was one time programmable... It was an autodialer for touch tone phones. You could hit the pound sign and two digits of a stored number to auto dial it on any touch tone phone in the house connected through it... The stored numbers were in a small RAM. It worked... I still have it... That was around 1978 I think and I was 16 or 17...
One edit note, this was not a kit or magazine project. I just went and bought the individual parts and built my first CPU project from the ground up...
-
I remember back when you had to park your 20mb hard drive, haha! My old 286 is kicking around somewhere i bet, with my old school papers on it. Would be amazing to dig it out, if my parents still have it.
-
I remember back when you had to park your 20mb hard drive, haha! My old 286 is kicking around somewhere i bet, with my old school papers on it. Would be amazing to dig it out, if my parents still have it.
The IBM PC-1 didn't even have a battery backed up real time clock. You had to enter the date and time each time you powered it up... I initially ran the "cassette BASIC" that was part of its ROM set.
-
Cool! The first processor I used was a Z80 and I wire wrapped the perfboard assembly together and wrote the code by hand on paper in machine code, hand calculating the jump and call offsets/locations... It used fuse-link ROM to hold the code that was one time programmable... It was an autodialer for touch tone phones. You could hit the pound sign and two digits of a stored number to auto dial it on any touch tone phone in the house connected through it... The stored numbers were in a small RAM. It worked... I still have it... That was around 1978 I think and I was 16 or 17...
One edit note, this was not a kit or magazine project. I just went and bought the individual parts and built my first CPU project from the ground up...
Outstanding! I never rolled my own machines. The SYM was a 6502, but I also used Z80s and 8080s. I hand wrote my code as well. You beat me to it I didn't start until about 1981 or 82.
-
The IBM PC-1 didn't even have a battery backed up real time clock. You had to enter the date and time each time you powered it up... I initially ran the "cassette BASIC" that was part of its ROM set.
First time I saw a computer, other than the Atari 5200 and colecovision (if those count), must have been the at or xt that my dad got free from his work. Cause nobody i knew could afford one, i was about 10 years old. All I can remember is that it ran dos, and I thought it was pretty much the most mystifying thing ever. Came with an AT&T Dos binder with every command available and lots of info.
-
That's excellent! What browser and version are you using?
@Sighlass
I use IceDragon (Version 40.1.1.18) which is an Firefox offshoot. I found Icedragon due to trying to avoid the super PREF cookie that Google use to install to spy on users (and probable still does, not sure).
https://help.comodo.com/topic-169-1-413-4458-Comodo-IceDragon---Introduction.html
I use a supped up version add-on of UBlock Origin, a flash block add-on that I allow on sites like this, a cookie removal add-on called Click&Clean and a few other things for convenience. Most Firefox add-ons work with IceDragon which is nice.
@roamer_1
Does what I need it to do. I do the forum thing, read my news, download a few low quality movies that I am able to steal from cache with a free program called videocacheview (Ublock does good enough job to let me get to movie stream sites without too much trouble)... and I nab a little music from time to time. Facebook (with all security settings I can set to avoid public seeing anything) with family.
Small time old fart that keeps a small circle. Don't need much.
-
I've currently still got all my old computers starting with an IBM PC-1 with the monochrome display. It also has the CGA adapter installed... The next one is a 20 MHz Dell 386 with 16 MB of RAM. The RAM cost a small fortune back then (1987 I think). And they continue from there every few years...
Wish I still had my first two: Atari 800 and an IBM PC "luggable".
-
My first computer was just some huge lump that cost some huge amount around 1980. I used it to learn how to code something that looked like space invaders but was unplayable. Then I used it to print fake report cards for my mom to sign and for me to turn in the real report card with a forged name of my mom. I was a stinker for a year there. All I remember is it took a long time to boot up and only took a floppy disk. I also remember the beating I got when my scam with the report cards was found out.
-
In 1983 I started working for Ford Aerospace as an integrator/tester for the jSC Space Shuttle Downlink Telemetry Front-End Processors. They were Perkin-Elmer 8/32s. They had monsterous 300 meg 10? platter removable disk packs. No monitors, Just tty printers.
We had No computers in the office. The following year, the secretaries got dual floppy PCjrs. I would work late to get some time on the PCs.
-
When I got my first computer, the SYM-1, I couldn't find anything on it other than the manual that came with it. I found a "Hunt the Wumpus" program for the KIM-1 which was the predecessor for the SYM and I was able to adapt it to run on the SYM-1. I would have given anything for a floppy interface. All it had was an audio cassette interface. It was klunky, but it worked. After all it came with 4K of ram and I fully populated it to 8K. Not much to save to tape.
-
First time I saw a computer, other than the Atari 5200 and colecovision (if those count), must have been the at or xt that my dad got free from his work. Cause nobody i knew could afford one, i was about 10 years old. All I can remember is that it ran dos, and I thought it was pretty much the most mystifying thing ever. Came with an AT&T Dos binder with every command available and lots of info.
I've still got all the original IBM mini binders that came with the PC-1. There are several. There is even a listing of the BIOS code in one of them.
-
I've still got all the original IBM mini binders that came with the PC-1. There are several. There is even a listing of the BIOS code in one of them.
The first computer hubby and I bought was in the late 80s. It had a 20MG hard drive and we upgraded to 40MG. The salesman told us he didn't know what we would ever do with that much memory!! :shrug:
:silly: :silly: :silly:
-
I worked on computers at work for years but didn't own one When I discovered a co-worker had a computer, I'd ask what do you do with it? I'd get answers like, reconcile my bank account, or keep all my recipes with it. I though, all those things I could easily do with a notebook. It wasn't until I had children did I see the need for a computer. I started my children on "keyboard banger" programs. Then I discovered " Access to Information". Then I understood the need for computers.
-
I worked on computers at work for years but didn't own one When I discovered a co-worker had a computer, I'd ask what do you do with it? I'd get answers like, reconcile my bank account, or keep all my recipes with it. I though, all those things I could easily do with a notebook. It wasn't until I had children did I see the need for a computer. I started my children on "keyboard banger" programs. Then I discovered " Access to Information". Then I understood the need for computers.
For me it was all about engineering tools. I often wrote my own tools to design complex filters (electronics), do circuit analysis and solve complex equations with many unknowns. I did a lot of that at home. The computer was a great tool to do those things. Before that it was programmable calculators like the HP-41C and before that it was slide rules, much more basic calculators and CRC tables...
-
My house is now down to the last two windows machines. Windows 7 from work (no other choice) and Windows 10 (son's computer). The rest are Linux Mint. I even converted my wife to Linux Mint and she loves it. Give me a year and the son's computer will either be converted or he will be off to college.
-
[...] the son's computer will either be converted or he will be off to college.
That's quite a threat!
LOL!
Unfortunately, I am a Windows house. Not by choice. I fix em for a living, and in order for me to understand the system, I have to live in it. 4 Win10/64 , 3 Win7/64, 1 Vista/32, 2 Mint, and one Ubuntu.
but that may change a bit... I will be getting a wire over to all my TV computers (they are on a separate LAN, and all wireless), and I intend to run them all in Ubuntu (I like Unity for across the room ops)... Gonna be a fun project, because the main media machine needs a share (Samba and me don't get along), and needs to be able to serve music and movies - not only to the other TVs, but to all the Win boxes too. That'll be a chore.
-
My first brand new tech purchase was a hdd for my Tandy 486sx... I'd jacked it up with a Kingston super chip to make it a 100DX... But the 40mg hard drive died, and I went and bought one brandy new... What massive vistas I had ... That drive was like looking across Monument Valley... Who could EVER fill up 200mg? It was crazy.
Mine was one of those Tandy's too.... was it one of the early ones with a CD-ROM? I had to install a new modem, soundcard and add RAM (from 4 to 28megs I think). The Harddrive was 100 Megabytes and it was originally a 25MHZ processor, lol.
-
Mine was one of those Tandy's too.... was it one of the early ones with a CD-ROM? I had to install a new modem, soundcard and add RAM (from 4 to 28megs I think). The Harddrive was 100 Megabytes and it was originally a 25MHZ processor, lol.
Yeah that sounds about right... I got mine w/o a hdd... used the 40mg seagate out of my 386sx - My first computer, given to me (broken) by my FiL...
heh... that one was my first experience with computers. I knew absoultely *nothing*...
About 3 months later, after I took the pie recipe out of the autoexec.bat, and some ascii dribble out of the config.sys, it booted right up...
I think it was a Tandy too - it had Tandy Deskmate and Win3.0... I stayed in deskmate, and played with some office program called First Choice... I was running a painting business at the time, and learned spreadsheets in that program. One I found out how valuable it's calculations were in doing bidding takeoffs, that was it. I was well on my way to geekdom. It's hard for me to even believe I ever did a blueprint takeoff by hand... That was an exponential difference - an order of magnitude.
There was another little gizmo in that box, called Pathminder. It was a little eclectic file manager and text editor - Man, I loved that little program. It stayed in my kit all the way into XP SP2 (where everything DOS broke). Even after that, someone wrote a clone called (no lie) pms.exe, and that lasted in NTCmd all the way into Win7.
It sat in the path and started with p.bat - I still have a p.cmd in my machine to this very day - Not running Pathminder anymore, but it fires up A43, the File manager I use the most in troubleshooting...
How's that for legacy? I've been poking 'p enter' to fire up a file manager my entire technical life.