The Briefing Room
General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => Topic started by: Dexter on August 02, 2014, 10:39:24 pm
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http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/1/5959637/nasa-cannae-drive-tests-have-promising-results
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Good next step. We need a drive that is designed to operate solely in space, as opposed to simply accelerating payloads up to orbital velocity with chemical rockets. Eventually we need some kind of reliable cheap drive that is capable of shuttling around the inner planets all the way out to the asteroids. We need to eventually mine the asteroid belt and process metals in vacuum and zero gravity and develop new construction methods and materials for use in the same environment. Some day we will have to develop long term habitat and workspace far above LOE.
And if you can develop a drive that can provide 1 Gravity of acceleration for an extended period of time, you can get up to relativistic speeds at significant percentages of c in a year of constant thrust. You cannot travel at the speed of light in Einsteinian Space, but you can get damned close. 50% of light speed gets a probe high enough above the Milky Way to image the galactic core, and finally discover what is on the other side from us, in only 50 years one way. Build and power a probe that is designed to last a century in space so we can eventually get the data it sends....
We're just over a century past the Wright Brothers.....
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Good next step. We need a drive that is designed to operate solely in space, as opposed to simply accelerating payloads up to orbital velocity with chemical rockets. Eventually we need some kind of reliable cheap drive that is capable of shuttling around the inner planets all the way out to the asteroids. We need to eventually mine the asteroid belt and process metals in vacuum and zero gravity and develop new construction methods and materials for use in the same environment. Some day we will have to develop long term habitat and workspace far above LOE.
The part I find the most exciting is the bit about being able to reach the nearest star in 30 years or less. It is rapidly becoming more and more feasible to send probes or even humans to another star system.
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Fuel costs would be horrific though.
I'm thinking the Niven approach might be better, since we don't have Bussard Rams yet. Sink a couple of fusion powered thrust tubes into Neptune's atmosphere and switch them on - same sort of principle as the Orion project, but self refueling. Take a while to get anywhere, but you certainly have the fuel and built in shielding. (Yes, I've been doing the calcs for this for a novel and it is feasible. Dangerous, but doable). Takes about 40k years to get to Barnards Star, where we know for sure there are planets, but computers don't care about time.
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Heck, just look what we've been able to accomplish with crude 20th century technology: Thirty-seven years after it launched, Voyager 1 is still out in the vast expanse of space, periodically relaying new data back home.
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Fuel costs would be horrific though.
That's the amazing part. This thing has no traditional fuels and is potentially self sustaining. It was supposed to be impossible, but it worked. That's how they are theorizing they will be able to create the ultra light design.
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We alredy know how to do it. It is called ION drive.
It starts out at 35 mph. Then it goes to 40. Then it goes to 400. Then to lightspeed Then it goes wherever it dann well pleases
But, instead of all that, America dicided to elect a monkey President who does not understand and does not want what he calls the 'evil of knowledge'.
From his upbringing in tribal Muslim culture, space is not knowable. And shold not ever be known. That is why one of the first things he did was to close down NASA. That was always a thorn in is side.
He can't have Americans doing all these great things. While "his people" suffer. That is not fair. And that is why he shut down NASA on his first day of office.
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almost sounds like a perpetual motion machine.
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I'm thinking in 10 - 15 years we will have discovered FTL whatever it would be warp speed or something else... But this drive can help the humans go to Mars in a better way. I think we need something better than chemical rockets to launch people can cargo off the planet.
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I'm thinking in 10 - 15 years we will have discovered FTL whatever it would be warp speed or something else... But this drive can help the humans go to Mars in a better way. I think we need something better than chemical rockets to launch people can cargo off the planet.
They will need to 'borrow' pieces of the Israeli "Iron Dome" technology, to evade space debris. For example, calculating incoming objects and making the proper evasive moves, etc..
One piece of space rock the size of a common screw could destroy the vehicle and the mission.
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They will need to 'borrow' pieces of the Israeli "Iron Dome" technology, to evade space debris. For example, calculating incoming objects and making the proper evasive moves, etc..
One piece of space rock the size of a common screw could destroy the vehicle and the mission.
Unless we find a way to create some kind of deflector shield.
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Imagine what we could do with an infinite improbability drive.
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Imagine what we could do with an infinite improbability drive.
or a Slipstream drive.
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Imagine what we could do with an infinite improbability drive.
Correction a Quantum Slipstream Drive..
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Unless we find a way to create some kind of deflector shield.
I read an article a while back about scientists discovering a way to alter the properties of photons and turn them into a physical object. I think that technology will eventually lead to something like this. It's amazing how we only seem to be limited by our imaginations.
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I read an article a while back about scientists discovering a way to alter the properties of photons and turn them into a physical object. I think that technology will eventually lead to something like this. It's amazing how we only seem to be limited by our imaginations.
The one thing I find amazing is that a certain show on a small budget and only lasted three years came up with some of these ideas first is slowly coming true.
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The one thing I find amazing is that a certain show on a small budget and only lasted three years came up with some of these ideas first is slowly coming true.
That's what I mean by being limited only by our imagination. We imagine the future and the wonders it might hold and then we create them in reality. It almost makes me think there are limitless possibilities to do anything in the universe, and the only thing holding us back is our lack of understanding of it. Mark my words, understanding the physics of black holes will be a key part of us exploring the universe.
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That's what I mean by being limited only by our imagination. We imagine the future and the wonders it might hold and then we create them in reality. It almost makes me think there are limitless possibilities to do anything in the universe, and the only thing holding us back is our lack of understanding of it. Mark my words, understanding the physics of black holes will be a key part of us exploring the universe.
Also is what holding us back is the will. I see the lack of will on both sides of the political spectrum, however it is mostly on the left.
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Also is what holding us back is the will. I see the lack of will on both sides of the political spectrum, however it is mostly on the left.
I will never understand people that can look up at the night sky and not be overwhelmed by curiosity and a desire to unlock all of its mysteries. Space is the unknown frontier, the new world. There is no greater endeavor for humanity.
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Also is what holding us back is the will. I see the lack of will on both sides of the political spectrum, however it is mostly on the left.
Add waste to that. There is a lot of brainpower out there going to waste. We need a new way of teaching, one designed specifically to reach the ones who are being wasted right now.
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I will never understand people that can look up at the night sky and not be overwhelmed by curiosity and a desire to unlock all of its mysteries. Space is the unknown frontier, the new world. There is no greater endeavor for humanity.
Ditto.. I think it may take a war or some major catastrophe to wake people up..
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Add waste to that. There is a lot of brainpower out there going to waste. We need a new way of teaching, one designed specifically to reach the ones who are being wasted right now.
That is correct..
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Contemplate this. (warning: it would be best to smoke one before reading this)
What if humans are nothing more than a universal virus. And we are seeking every and any way to spread into a greater entity. We are currently constrained on Earth, but just like a virus, we are always looking for a way to spread ourseleves to envelope everything.
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Contemplate this. (warning: it would be best to smoke one before reading this)
What if humans are nothing more than a universal virus. And we are seeking every and any way to spread into a greater entity. We are currently constrained on Earth, but just like a virus, we are always looking for a way to spread ourseleves to envelope everything.
Also virus tends to mutate... I have a belief if we don't find a identical planet, at least somewhat a close one, the human race can find a adapt to the planet that we settle on.
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Also virus tends to mutate... I have a belief if we don't find a identical planet, at least somewhat a close one, the human race can find a adapt to the planet that we settle on.
You mean evolve? :pondering:
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You mean evolve? :pondering:
Correction evolve ;)
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Contemplate this. (warning: it would be best to smoke one before reading this)
What if humans are nothing more than a universal virus. And we are seeking every and any way to spread into a greater entity. We are currently constrained on Earth, but just like a virus, we are always looking for a way to spread ourseleves to envelope everything.
Not just humans, but life itself.
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Also virus tends to mutate... I have a belief if we don't find a identical planet, at least somewhat a close one, the human race can find a adapt to the planet that we settle on.
People already do.
There is a place in the Atacama that has poison water, is hot as hell and bone dry. There is a town there.
In Kenya there is a place that is literally hell. Sulphur clouds, random lava flows, the ground is mostly salt. People live there.
Tierra del Fuego - it's bloody cold at times, to put it politely. The people there used to live, work and sleep naked.
Altitudes of over 15000 feet are supposedly not survivable long term. Tell that to the ones on the mountain tops all around the world.
We're a tough and versatile species.
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Not just humans, but life itself.
A virus is just another form of life doing exactly what all forms of life do. Life adapts, thrives and expands wherever possible.
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Also virus tends to mutate... I have a belief if we don't find a identical planet, at least somewhat a close one, the human race can find a adapt to the planet that we settle on.
You get the cookie Chief. There is no doubt that humans in space or on another planet would be much different than us.
Which, of course, means, obviously, we would have to go to war with them and kill them. And they would go to war with us. That is the human nature.
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People already do.
There is a place in the Atacama that has poison water, is hot as hell and bone dry. There is a town there.
In Kenya there is a place that is literally hell. Sulphur clouds, random lava flows, the ground is mostly salt. People live there.
Tierra del Fuego - it's bloody cold at times, to put it politely. The people there used to live, work and sleep naked.
Altitudes of over 15000 feet are supposedly not survivable long term. Tell that to the ones on the mountain tops all around the world.
We're a tough and versatile species.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mx-BRJM0sA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mx-BRJM0sA)
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You get the cookie Chief. There is no doubt that humans in space or on another planet would be much different than us.
Which, of course, means, obviously, we would have to go to war with them and kill them. And they would go to war with us. That is the human nature.
Someday humanity will transcend its violent tendencies. This will happen when communication and ease of access around the world opens our eyes to the fact that we're all just people doing our best to live a decent life, and that no other race or group of people is inherently bad or ignorant. That is my hope, anyway.
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Someday humanity will transcend its violent tendencies. This will happen when communication and ease of access around the world opens our eyes to the fact that we're all just people doing our best to live a decent life, and that no other race or group of people is inherently bad or ignorant. That is my hope, anyway.
I hope so. But we didn't get to the top of the food chain without violence being built in.
I mean, look at an average person. Weak senses, no built in weapons, laughable teeth, minimal situational awareness. It was only our immense capacity for violence, brains, and our opposable thumbs that got us where we are today.
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Imagine an object traveling at the speed of light, say a motorcycle. The driver turns on the headlight. What happens?
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Imagine an object traveling at the speed of light, say a motorcycle. The driver turns on the headlight. What happens?
He'll glow.
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(https://s-media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/79/0a/45/790a454b4d11dfa0f04b6bac12bc61ea.jpg)
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LOL! I get up at 5 AM for my morning run ... I never get used to it.
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Per Wiki....
The Alcubierre drive or Alcubierre metric (referring to metric tensor) is a speculative idea based on a solution of Einstein's field equations in general relativity as proposed by theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre, by which a spacecraft could achieve faster-than-light travel if a configurable energy-density field lower than that of vacuum (i.e. negative mass) could be created. Rather than exceeding the speed of light within its local frame of reference, a spacecraft would traverse distances by contracting space in front of it and expanding space behind it, resulting in effective faster-than-light travel.
Objects cannot accelerate to the speed of light within normal spacetime; instead, the Alcubierre drive shifts space around an object so that the object would arrive at its destination faster than light would in normal space.[1] Although the metric proposed by Alcubierre is mathematically valid in that it is consistent with the Einstein field equations, it may not be physically meaningful or indicate that such a drive could be constructed. The proposed mechanism of the Alcubierre drive implies a negative energy density and therefore requires exotic matter, so if exotic matter with the correct properties does not exist then it could not be constructed. However, at the close of his original paper[2] Alcubierre argued (following an argument developed by physicists analyzing traversable wormholes[3][4]) that the Casimir vacuum between parallel plates could fulfill the negative-energy requirement for the Alcubierre drive. Another possible issue is that although the Alcubierre metric is consistent with general relativity, general relativity does not incorporate quantum mechanics, and some physicists have presented arguments to suggest that a theory of quantum gravity which merged the two theories would eliminate those solutions in general relativity which allow for backwards time travel (see the chronology protection conjecture), of which the Alcubierre drive is one.
In short, nothing in Einsteinian Space/Time can attain or exceed the speed of light, but there is a great deal of evidence that suggests space itself moved considerably faster than light during the big bang, which gives rise to this theory. How to do it is another matter, but there is research ongoing into this and other theoretical drives.
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Per Wiki....
In short, nothing in Einsteinian Space/Time can attain or exceed the speed of light, but there is a great deal of evidence that suggests space itself moved considerably faster than light during the big bang, which gives rise to this theory. How to do it is another matter, but there is research ongoing into this and other theoretical drives.
It's important to note the knowledge Einstein had access to while he was alive. People like to refer to his ideas as the end all rules about space and light speed, but his perspective was formed when we were still pretty ignorant (at least by today's standards). I wonder if any of his ideas would be different were he alive today. The simple fact that greater than light speed momentum has ever existed at any point kind of puts a dent in his whole theory, in my opinion.
It's also possible that getting around the universe will be more about ripping a hole in space and teleporting there, making light speed kind of irrelevant. Scientists have already observed that quantum teleportation is possible, so how much of a leap is it really to find a way to bring that to a macro level that we can control? Technology proves the impossible to be possible on a regular basis. There is no telling when we will stumble upon some new discovery that unlocks a plethora of options we never even considered before.
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Well - there is also the small detail that the furthest galaxies we can see show a red shift that indicates they are heading away at faster than the speed of light. It's old light, sure. From around the time of the big bang, in some cases.
I know - measurement errors are going to creep in when you get the odd photon from an entire galaxy. But it should be checked out. We should do at least one thing urgently. Replicate some of the gear we already have up there - the Hubble, for example - give them a better guidance and control system and then park them in orbit between Jupiter and Saturn. A 24 AU parellax is a lot better than a 2 AU one for resolving details.
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Well - there is also the small detail that the furthest galaxies we can see show a red shift that indicates they are heading away at faster than the speed of light. It's old light, sure. From around the time of the big bang, in some cases.
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Which might very well support the idea that space itself, as opposed to objects within space, can move faster than light. Which in turn gives some further support to the theory behind the Alcubierre drive.
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http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/1/5959637/nasa-cannae-drive-tests-have-promising-results
We can't even get a person to the ISS.
This has the feel of an old, broken down professional, at a bar, telling anyone and no one of his big dreams.
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It's important to note the knowledge Einstein had access to while he was alive. People like to refer to his ideas as the end all rules about space and light speed, but his perspective was formed when we were still pretty ignorant (at least by today's standards). I wonder if any of his ideas would be different were he alive today. The simple fact that greater than light speed momentum has ever existed at any point kind of puts a dent in his whole theory, in my opinion.
It's also possible that getting around the universe will be more about ripping a hole in space and teleporting there, making light speed kind of irrelevant. Scientists have already observed that quantum teleportation is possible, so how much of a leap is it really to find a way to bring that to a macro level that we can control? Technology proves the impossible to be possible on a regular basis. There is no telling when we will stumble upon some new discovery that unlocks a plethora of options we never even considered before.
Space, as opposed to matter, does not have "momentum" in the sense that matter does. Ergo, even if space is expanding at a rate greater than the speed of light, that says nothing about whether "greater than light speed momentum" has ever existed.
How much of a leap is it to bring "quantum teleportation" to the macro level? Much larger than the leap from Newton to Einstein. Also, "quantum teleportation" is not the same thing as Star Trek teleportation. In particular, it relies up classical movement to set it up and therefore cannot be accomplished faster than the speed of light. I'd suggest a little more reading on the subject first.
And I doubt that Einstein would change that many of his ideas were he alive today for the simple fact that to-date most of his theories have been tested and passed the test. And no, before you set up that strawman, I am not saying that Einstein is infallible, nor am I saying that he would not have further developed his ideas were he alive today - no doubt he would have pushed his theories further than he got them - but I am saying that the fundamentals of his ideas are sufficiently solid that any newer theory must incorporate them as, at the least, special cases, in much the same way that Einstein's theories incorporate Newton's theories on gravity as a special case.
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It's important to note the knowledge Einstein had access to while he was alive. People like to refer to his ideas as the end all rules about space and light speed, but his perspective was formed when we were still pretty ignorant (at least by today's standards). I wonder if any of his ideas would be different were he alive today. The simple fact that greater than light speed momentum has ever existed at any point kind of puts a dent in his whole theory, in my opinion.
It's also possible that getting around the universe will be more about ripping a hole in space and teleporting there, making light speed kind of irrelevant. Scientists have already observed that quantum teleportation is possible, so how much of a leap is it really to find a way to bring that to a macro level that we can control? Technology proves the impossible to be possible on a regular basis. There is no telling when we will stumble upon some new discovery that unlocks a plethora of options we never even considered before.
Einstein's Space/Time theories about relativity set the stage for other avenues of theoretical physics, Quantum Mechanics being one. Very little about quantum anything is possible in Einsteinian Space, but outside of it there are some tantalizing suggestions about what might be possible, including FTL travel and unlimted power sources. The math involved is way over my head and I understand very little about what some of these subjects deal with, but it is fascinating to peruse anyway.