The Briefing Room
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: EdinVA on July 10, 2020, 03:25:48 pm
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Fire proof safes worth the money?
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq4hYpkgT9s#)
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I sorta breezed through the video.... safe needed to be opened sooner because they found out the water/time/chemicals do more damage than perhaps the heat did. I just know that some of the most corrosive stuff in the world is in a fire extinguisher. If you put out a car fire or something with a extinguisher, as soon as you can take it to a hand held car wash and spray it off. We has some jackarse kids spray one in our car one Halloween 40+ years ago, and it did some damage before we realized it.
That said, I would of cleaned those guns up the best I could and kept them. I imagine 90% of them would of worked.
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I sorta breezed through the video.... safe needed to be opened sooner because they found out the water/time/chemicals do more damage than perhaps the heat did. I just know that some of the most corrosive stuff in the world is in a fire extinguisher. If you put out a car fire or something with a extinguisher, as soon as you can take it to a hand held car wash and spray it off. We has some jackarse kids spray one in our car one Halloween 40+ years ago, and it did some damage before we realized it.
That said, I would of cleaned those guns up the best I could and kept them. I imagine 90% of them would of worked.
The only question I have about the guns, is whether or not being in the heat from the fire caused the steel to lose temper. Hardness testing with a Rockwell tester would determine if the temper of the barrels or actions had changed. They could clean up and still function mechanically but be dangerous to shoot.
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The only question I have about the guns, is whether or not being in the heat from the fire caused the steel to lose temper. Hardness testing with a Rockwell tester would determine if the temper of the barrels or actions had changed. They could clean up and still function mechanically but be dangerous to shoot.
Would severe heat distort/bow the barrel?
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Would severe heat distort/bow the barrel?
Severe heat could, it could also melt it, but the more insidious damage comes from removing the temper from steel. In an insulated environment, if the steel has gotten hot enough (above its crystallization temperature) and cools slowly, it will lose temper and soften. (https://i.stack.imgur.com/wl3VO.jpg)
In this instance, though, we have a thermometer.
Consider, according to https://concealednation.org/2016/06/ammo-in-the-car-under-summer-heat-how-stable-is-it/ (https://concealednation.org/2016/06/ammo-in-the-car-under-summer-heat-how-stable-is-it/)
Lead melts at 621 °F
Nitrocellulose ignites at around 320-338 °F
Gunpowder ignites at 801–867 °F.
Ordinary book paper ignites at 451°F (Hence the Ray Bradbury Title), and most paper would be burning by 500°F
While the 7mm ammo cooked off (nitrocellulose based powder?), the pistol ammo did not, and the boxes were not carbonized. That means temperatures likely stayed below 500 degrees F, and the steel is okay.
Still, after I cleaned the rifles and pistol up, I would take them to a gunsmith or metallurgist and have the actions hardness tested to be sure.
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Severe heat could, it could also melt it, but the more insidious damage comes from removing the temper from steel. In an insulated environment, if the steel has gotten hot enough (above its crystallization temperature) and cools slowly, it will lose temper and soften.
In this instance, though, we have a thermometer.
Consider, according to https://concealednation.org/2016/06/ammo-in-the-car-under-summer-heat-how-stable-is-it/ (https://concealednation.org/2016/06/ammo-in-the-car-under-summer-heat-how-stable-is-it/)
Ordinary book paper ignites at 451°F (Hence the Ray Bradbury Title), and most paper would be burning by 500°F
While the 7mm ammo cooked off (nitrocellulose based powder?), the pistol ammo did not, and the boxes were not carbonized. That means temperatures likely stayed below 500 degrees F, and the steel is okay.
Still, after I cleaned the rifles and pistol up, I would take them to a gunsmith or metallurgist and have the actions hardness tested to be sure.
Interesting... thanks for the back fill...
Most fire-resistant safes can withstand temperatures of 1700°F, much higher than typical house fires (1200°F), and maintain an internal temperature of 350°F –protecting your valuable documents or other items. The fire-resistance typically will be specified for 1 or 2 hours –longer than the duration of an average house fire. In other words, a class 350°F 2-hour rated safe can maintain an internal temperature at or below 350°F for two hours of exposure to 1700°F.
https://www.vaultandsafe.com/vault-safe-classifications/ (https://www.vaultandsafe.com/vault-safe-classifications/)
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Interesting... thanks for the back fill...
Thanks for the ratings info!
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Maybe its my background, but they sure seem to be handling these devices (guns/ammo) that have gone through varying levels of themal inititation pretty non-chalantly.
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Maybe its my background, but they sure seem to be handling these devices (guns/ammo) that have gone through varying levels of themal inititation pretty non-chalantly.
Exactly... two of the AR's had magazines in them so they were likely loaded...
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Maybe its my background, but they sure seem to be handling these devices (guns/ammo) that have gone through varying levels of themal inititation pretty non-chalantly.
True, only a couple were cleared and checked on video. I'm not much of one for pulling an unknown firearm out of anything unknown by the barrel end, either.
Surface rust is common after a fire, the gasses produced are corrosive and any metal will suffer if not promptly cleaned and oiled.
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Do they have devices to get an idea of the actual temperatures inside a safe?
Something that melts or discolors at various temperatures.
I suppose one could put in a heat sensor to an enteral recorder.
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Got this from my brother who has been with the local volunteer fire department for probably 20 years...
Well a lot of people don't know this, but many fireproof safes are designed so that the insulation in them release moisture inside the safe at specific temperatures.
This is what likely caused the rust on the guns in the safe.
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Do they have devices to get an idea of the actual temperatures inside a safe?
Something that melts or discolors at various temperatures.
I suppose one could put in a heat sensor to an enteral recorder.
I was thinking along the same lines. A steel frame with different alloys that melt at specific temperatures should do it.
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I was thinking along the same lines. A steel frame with different alloys that melt at specific temperatures should do it.
Yep.
The guys cutting open the safe were not the owners. No doubt, the owners took the cash from their insurance.
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Do they have devices to get an idea of the actual temperatures inside a safe?
Something that melts or discolors at various temperatures.
I suppose one could put in a heat sensor to an enteral recorder.
I know we had adhesive backed "blister" sensors with various temp ratings that were used in high temp areas of some of our aircraft. I can't seem to recall the right terminology right now. I've slept a few times since I last used them, so have forgotten.