The Briefing Room
General Category => World News => Topic started by: TomSea on August 11, 2017, 10:20:59 pm
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Trump: 'I'm not going to rule out a military option' in Venezuela
Jacob Pramuk | @jacobpramuk
Published 8 Mins Ago | Updated Moments Ago CNBC.com
President Donald Trump on Friday said he would not rule out a "military option" in Venezuela.
"We have many options for Venezuela, including a possible military option, if necessary," Trump said told reporters at his New Jersey golf club on Friday.
Continued: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/11/trump-on-venezuela-im-not-going-to-rule-out-a-military-option.html
As I heard it, it sounded like he said, this would not be, if a military operation, something the US would undertake alone. See total statement when it comes in. He just said this.
I hope this would not mean rebels or guerrillas, that is always trouble.
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http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_UNITED_STATES_VENEZUELA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-08-11-18-24-52
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Donald Trump says he's considering possible military action against Venezuela in response to President Nicolas Maduro's power grab.
Trump tells reporters at his New Jersey golf course Friday that he's "not going to rule out" a military option."
He adds that it's "certainly something that we could pursue."
Trump has been blasting Maduro's moves to consolidate power, describing him as a "dictator."
The Trump administration has issued a series of sanctions against Maduro and more than two dozen current and former Venezuelan officials.
But a military intervention would be an extraordinary escalation in response.
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A military response would be one of the last choices; but some of Venezuela's neighbors, Peru and Colombia are upset at Venezuela, Colombia has accused Venezuela of trying to foment trouble in their country.
Peru expels Venezuela’s ambassador to protest Maduro’s breaking of democratic order
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/peru-expels-venezuelas-ambassador-to-protest-maduros-breaking-of-democratic-order/2017/08/11/f74ab028-7ed7-11e7-b2b1-aeba62854dfa_story.html?utm_term=.1ed1e21d4f46
I think we might lend a hand to these neighboring countries if they were to do something, them or the OAS, Organization of American States. It seems possible.
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TRUMP SAYS HE'S CONSIDERING MILITARY RESPONSE TO VENEZUELA
That would be a stupid move.
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Venezuela's laundering Iranian money, Cuba is behind a lot of the power grab in Venezuela. This is the axis of evil. Yes, do nothing. Maybe they'll team up with Syria, Russia and North Korea too.
http://freebeacon.com/politics/the-iran-hezbollah-venezuela-axis/
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Venezuela's laundering Iranian money, Cuba is behind a lot of the power grab in Venezuela. This is the axis of evil. Yes, do nothing. Maybe they'll team up with Syria, Russia and North Korea too.
http://freebeacon.com/politics/the-iran-hezbollah-venezuela-axis/
And that gives him reason to threaten to send our military to Venezuela because?
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Threads merged. Please check before posting.
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The Church Committee comes back to haunt us again, it use to be much easier to get rid of despots, announcing military option availability adds nothing but ego.
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The Church Committee comes back to haunt us again, it use to be much easier to get rid of despots, announcing military option availability adds nothing but ego.
We'll see.
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Lessee, Obama dragged the military down to the lowest levels of men and equipment since pre-WWI.
Today, after only 8 months in office, Trump wishes to threaten war on multiple fronts in more places on the globe than we have military resources.
Brilliant.
No wonder our enemies are laughing their asses off at us.
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Lessee, Obama dragged the military down to the lowest levels of men and equipment since pre-WWI.
Today, after only 8 months in office, Trump wishes to threaten war on multiple fronts in more places on the globe than we have military resources.
Brilliant.
No wonder our enemies are laughing their asses off at us.
Friday night is all right for fighting. I see you have your Trump Hate Chubbie on. Lets rock.
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Putting it on the table at this point does not seem very prudent. I would bet that average American hasn't a clue about what is going on in Venezuela.
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Putting it on the table at this point does not seem very prudent. I would bet that average American hasn't a clue about what is going on in Venezuela.
The attention span of your average american is about as long as Chelsea Manning's Dick
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The attention span of your average american is about as long as Chelsea Manning's Dick
Jeez, did you have to bring that thing up again?
Hmm...I guess someone has to cause he can't anymore.
22222frying pan
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We are a member of the Organization of American States, we might have obligations if there was a vote to do this within the organization. The army there also had a minor rebellion. We could conceivably help them out. They say all that is going on is being done by the Cuban masters of Venezuela. A power grab, a takeover. Minor stuff compared to what we see elsewhere, it is interesting we acted in Panama, Grenada. Acting in this hemisphere is not unknown.
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Jeez, did you have to bring that thing up again?
Hmm...I guess someone has to cause he can't anymore.
22222frying pan
Baby.. only when stupid posts are bumped that should remain flaccid. It's a manning moment.
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Baby.. only when stupid posts are bumped that should remain flaccid. It's a manning moment.
Well heck, you didn't have to call me stupid. I'm going home to mother.
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Well heck, you didn't have to call me stupid. I'm going home to mother.
Your mother or mine? :silly:
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That would be a stupid move.
@txradioguy
I said before he was elected, he would start a war. I didn't know he would start two - but we're not done yet with him - I now have a Trump "War List", to keep up to date. Got water, food?
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@txradioguy
I said before he was elected, he would start a war. I didn't know he would start two - but we're not done yet with him - I now have a Trump "War List", to keep up to date. Got water, food?
You will be long dead before the 1st bomb is drop. So why are you worried?
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@Wingnut if I didn't know better I'd say it's you that's got the Boner to just go smash some Country up, misery does love company, doesn't matter what Hemisphere they are in.
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Your mother or mine? :silly:
Heh. Anywho, stupid people remember threats of going to war with a country that as far as they know is a country is Europe. Just doesn't seem like something you randomly throw out there.
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@Wingnut if I didn't know better I'd say it's you that's got the Boner to just go smash some Country up, misery does love company, doesn't matter what Hemisphere they are in.
Frank Cannon was right about you.
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What, the Gay rumour again? @Wingnut
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"We don't talk about it. But a military operation, a military option, is certainly something we could pursue," he responded.
No, we don't talk about it - we just tweet about it and say things like 'we're locked and loaded.'
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Heh. Anywho, stupid people remember threats of going to war with a country that as far as they know is a country is Europe. Just doesn't seem like something you randomly throw out there.
Hey...Sometimes you have to call the bastards out.
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ping
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And that gives him reason to threaten to send our military to Venezuela because?
Monroe Doctrine, look it up sometime.
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Hey, the jury's still out on his glorious diplomatic skills with North Korea, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here, but to throw in Venezuela at this juncture, unnecessarily, well, I'm starting to get worried.
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ping
Dear. Wrong site. TBR doesn't do "pings" ...please visit www.freedrepublic.com
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A negotiator knows to never take any option off of the table.
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I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here
LOL
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Monroe Doctrine, look it up sometime.
There's no European colonialism happening. You probably mean the Roosevelt Corollary or Clark Memorandum.
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You Busted Me! @jpsb
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You will be long dead before the 1st bomb is drop. So why are you worried?
@Wingnut
Yesterday, you called me a bad name and said,
"Don't talk to me again." As you see below, Mod2 took the bad name off.
"Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:02:42 PM by Mod2"
My post on this thread was not to you, so why are you talking to me AGAIN and would prefer me dead?
I am not going to fight with you, it is below my standard of communication to do that.
@mystery-ak, I am in good health and plan to run for Miss America when I am 100.
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Dear. Wrong site. TBR doesn't do "pings" ...please visit www.freedrepublic.com
@Wingnut
I ping on here anytime I want. You really want a fight with me. Have a talk with @mystery-ak and maybe she will throw me off here, just for you.
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@Wingnut
@mystery-ak, I am in good health and plan to run for Miss America when I am 100.
:finger:
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@Wingnut
Yesterday, you called me a bad name and said,
"Don't talk to me again." As you see below, Mod2 took the bad name off.
"Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:02:42 PM by Mod2"
My post on this thread was not to you, so why are you talking to me AGAIN and would prefer me dead?
I am not going to fight with you, it is below my standard of communication to do that.
@mystery-ak, I am in good health and plan to run for Miss America when I am 100.
I hope I'm alive to see it..lol
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You Busted Me! @jpsb
Again' lol, ****cute kitty
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@Wingnut
I ping on here anytime I want. You really want a fight with me. Have a talk with @mystery-ak and maybe she will throw me off here, just for you.
LOL...you know that won't happen....
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Friday night is all right for fighting. I see you have your Trump Hate Chubbie on. Lets rock.
Has little to do with Trump's small hands versus my big feet, and more to do with logistical realities of the readiness of our military to engage in new multiple theaters of war.
The drawing down of our military to modern historic lows is due Obama and Congress, not Trump.
However, committing our forces to a potentially major conflict in Korea and at the same time threatening force in Venezuela is more than a bit idiotic.
'Hate chubby' enough for ya? Or is singing the Anthem of Trump Praise more important?
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Has little to do with Trump's small hands versus my big feet, and more to do with logistical realities of the readiness of our military to engage in new multiple theaters of war.
The drawing down of our military to modern historic lows is due Obama and Congress, not Trump.
However, committing our forces to a potentially major conflict in Korea and at the same time threatening force in Venezuela is more than a bit idiotic.
'Hate chubby' enough for ya? Or is singing the Anthem of Trump Praise more important?
I think you grossly underestimate our capabilities. FWIW.
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I think you grossly underestimate our capabilities. FWIW.
Oh really?
Why is Trump talking about yanking us out of A'stan if our 'capabilities' are so invincible?
You don't think we are spread a bit thin with war materiel, men and ships at strength-levels less than what they were before WWII?
Or is Twittering loudly while carrying a pool noodle the new defense policy of this administration?
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Oh really?
Why is Trump talking about yanking us out of A'stan.....
Only about 10k personnel there, with no clear purpose. Why bother?
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Monroe Doctrine, look it up sometime.
I'm very familiar with the Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary.
Perhaps you missed the shift in foreign policy about 4 years ago when the SecState said that doctrine was no more.
Has the new SecState said we are going to stand by that doctrine once again?
Maybe you should look that up sometime.
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Pentagon: We've received no new orders on Venezuela after Trump remarks
By Brandon Carter - 08/11/17 08:51 PM EDT
The Department of Defense is pushing back on President Trump’s assertion that he is refusing to rule out a U.S. military intervention in Venezuela.
“The Pentagon has not received any orders with regards to Venezuela," Pentagon spokesman Eric Pahon said, according to CNN. "The military conducts contingency planning for a variety of situations. If called upon, we are prepared to support ... government efforts to protect our national interests and safeguard US citizens.”
“Any insinuations by the Maduro regime that we are planning an invasion are baseless and are designed to distract from his continued efforts to undermine the democratic process and institutions in Venezuela."
<..snip..>
http://thehill.com/policy/international/346278-pentagon-weve-received-no-new-orders-on-venezuela-after-trump-remarks (http://thehill.com/policy/international/346278-pentagon-weve-received-no-new-orders-on-venezuela-after-trump-remarks)
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I think you grossly underestimate our capabilities. FWIW.
We don't have the capabilities right now to get involved in Venezuela. Not with he Norks saber rattling.
We have to rotate entire brigades into Europe right now...I think you vastly OVER estimate what we have on tap right now in the way of military resources.
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@Wingnut
Yesterday, you called me a bad name and said,
"Don't talk to me again." As you see below, Mod2 took the bad name off.
"Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:02:42 PM by Mod2"
My post on this thread was not to you, so why are you talking to me AGAIN and would prefer me dead?
I am not going to fight with you, it is below my standard of communication to do that.
@mystery-ak, I am in good health and plan to run for Miss America when I am 100.
Mod Note: I'd appreciate if you would refrain from making personal insults on the forum.
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Hopefully the Marines won't still have all their planes grounded before big shot gets us more involved. I really think it's all bluster, but the problem with bluster is that eventually someone triple dog dares you and the next thing you know you're frozen to a flag pole. Well, y'all know what I mean.
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There's probably some contingency drawn up similar to Operation Restore Hope in Somalia. It'll probably be just as ineffective.
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That would be a stupid move.
Its a stupid move just to say it. Whyever would we get involved militarily in Venezuela? Trump needs to learn when to keep his trap shut. Unfortunately I doubt that will happen.
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I do not believe anybody on this forum, know our capabilities or strength.
If they do, they should not be saying.
If they are saying, they do not know.
Just saying.
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Its a stupid move just to say it. Whyever would we get involved militarily in Venezuela? Trump needs to learn when to keep his trap shut. Unfortunately I doubt that will happen.
He appearently believes that just by invoking the threat of the U.S. military it will make people quake in their Mao suits.
And that just isn't the case right now.
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I do not believe anybody on this forum, know our capabilities or strength.
If they do, they should not be saying.
If they are saying, they do not know.
Just saying.
There are no OpSec violations. If there were I'd be the first to let the owner and the Mods know.
Just shut up if you can't say anything relevant about the topic.
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There are no OpSec violations. If there were I'd be the first to let the owner and the Mods know.
Just shut up if you can't say anything relevant about the topic.
Gee there soldier, you are taking things personally. I did not write that, to you.
I wrote that to suggest to those outside the military, to not look on political forums for correct info on classified matters (hopefully).
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Gee there soldier, you are taking things personally. I did not write that, to you.
I take anything from someone talking out of ignorance about the military personally.
What you said was stupid and uncalled for.
I wrote that to suggest to those outside the military, to not look on political forums for correct info on classified matters (hopefully).
Cut the crap. You floated the notion of an OpSec violation to scare people off from posting on this thread pure and simple.
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I guess we can drop the Bush is a war mongering neocon BS now that Trump is threatening apparently random wars to make himself feel good or something.
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I guess we can drop the Bush is a war mongering neocon BS now that Trump is threatening apparently random wars to make himself feel good or something.
I wondered where the leader of the THB band was.
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I take anything from someone talking out of ignorance about the military personally.
What you said was stupid and uncalled for.
Cut the crap. You floated the notion of an OpSec violation to scare people off from posting on this thread pure and simple.
"I take anything from someone talking out of ignorance about the military personally."
You are imagining words that were not written. I respect your service.
When I served, I held a Secret clearance, and prepared daily strength reports, for secure transmission to higher Hq. My superiors were continually reminding us to be careful, to include mingling with civilians, when off duty. Seriously.
That is hardly "ignorance about the military."
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Who needs Viagra when you can have the satisfaction of wiping a country off the face of the Earth... @Cripplecreek
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I wondered where the leader of the THB band was.
What's THB?
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Who needs Viagra when you can have the satisfaction of wiping a country off the face of the Earth.
Tomahawk and Minuteman III missiles are very phallic.
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What's THB?
A special club. Trump Hating Briefers. They are legion.
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Who needs Viagra when you can have the satisfaction of wiping a country off the face of the Earth... @Cripplecreek
It sure seems to excite the chairborne rangers who are rubbing themselves raw with excitement over the prospect of 2 new wars they can watch on TV.
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It sure seems to excite the chairborne rangers who are rubbing themselves raw with excitement over the prospect of 2 new wars they can watch on TV.
Maybe they have stock in Raytheon.
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A special club. Trump Hating Briefers. They are legion.
I have an aversion to the hate word, @Wingnut
I don't hate Trump or anyone else, I would certainly settle for RDT, Really Dislike Trump or something similar and another part of our important coalition are the RDE's Really Dislike Everything, between the two of us you Trumpers are screwed.
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Maybe they have stock in Raytheon.
Funny you should say that. From a thread at TOS yesterday.....
To: eagleone
And it takes months to move the hundreds of thousands of tons of supplies.
Speaking of presence in the region, whatever happened to that Task Force that was sailing toward Korea in the spring? It was watched breathlessly for a couple months, then faded away.
Raytheon makes the Tomahawk cruise missile. They've had a good run, but no more so than the market in general. If the market were,anticipating war, I think RTN would break out.
14 posted on 8/10/2017, 6:50:08 PM by ProtectOurFreedom
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Funny you should say that. From a thread at TOS yesterday.....
To: eagleone
And it takes months to move the hundreds of thousands of tons of supplies.
Speaking of presence in the region, whatever happened to that Task Force that was sailing toward Korea in the spring? It was watched breathlessly for a couple months, then faded away.
Raytheon makes the Tomahawk cruise missile. They've had a good run, but no more so than the market in general. If the market were,anticipating war, I think RTN would break out.
14 posted on 8/10/2017, 6:50:08 PM by ProtectOurFreedom
Man they are predictable.
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There are no OpSec violations. If there were I'd be the first to let the owner and the Mods know.
Just shut up if you can't say anything relevant about the topic.
@txradioguy
I have the utmost respect for your service my friend but will tell you with 100% certainty that YOU do not know what our full capabilities are!
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A special club. Trump Hating Briefers. They are legion.
Dang. I wonder if they have a secret handshake.
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Dang. I wonder if they have a secret handshake.
No but they do have dues. Where do you think the sprinkles for the donuts come from?
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@txradioguy
I have the utmost respect for your service my friend but will tell you with 100% certainty that YOU do not know what our full capabilities are!
Never claimed I did. But it is utter nonsense and political suicide to think we have the capabilities to carry out what Trump is threatening right now.
I know enough about the current state of forces t say that anyone who thinks we can plan airstriks in the PI...send troops to Venezuela while attacking North Korea AND maintain force levels in Iraq Afghanistan and rotations to Europe is SEVERLY delusional.
Even Trump has said the state of the military is a disaster.
The state of the military is a “disaster,” it is “depleted,” and as president he will “rebuild” it.
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2016/1027/Why-Trump-says-the-state-of-US-military-is-a-disaster
Nothing has been rebuilt yet...thre's only been lipservice...and today the Marine Corps General in charge of aviation ordered all of it's planes grounded.
That's not a secret...it was on the Fox News website.
That lays bare the empty rhetoric of Trump threatening any rogue state or enemy nation with "fire and fury" right now.
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Nothing has been rebuilt yet...thre's only been lipservice...and today the Marine Corps General in charge of aviation ordered all of it's planes grounded.
That's not quite the crisis some are making it out to be.
“This operational reset will occur within the next two weeks and will be taken at the discretion of commanders, based on their unit's operational commitments, to focus on the fundamentals of safe flight operations, standardization, and combat readiness,” the statement continued.
The USMC said that the 24 hour-period grounding is not unusual.
“Pauses in operations are not uncommon and are viewed as a responsible step to refresh and review best practices and procedures so our units remain capable, safe, and ready,” the USMC said in their statement.
The last time a fleet-wide aviation operational pause occurred was August 2016.
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That's not quite the crisis some are making it out to be.
“This operational reset will occur within the next two weeks and will be taken at the discretion of commanders, based on their unit's operational commitments, to focus on the fundamentals of safe flight operations, standardization, and combat readiness,” the statement continued.
The USMC said that the 24 hour-period grounding is not unusual.
“Pauses in operations are not uncommon and are viewed as a responsible step to refresh and review best practices and procedures so our units remain capable, safe, and ready,” the USMC said in their statement.
The last time a fleet-wide aviation operational pause occurred was August 2016.
These things keep happening because Marine Corps aviation...like the aviation branches of the other services have been forced to push back mandatory maintenance on aircraft past rational time frames because of lack of money thanks to sequestration.
They are literally flying aircraft...the ones that can fly....to the point where they fall out of the sky.
There have been stories posted here about parts having to be cannibalized from display aircraft to keep combat jets flying.
The AF went out to the Bone Yard in Arizona a couple years ago and got a B-52 up and running to maintain flight ops.
It's worse than what some people are making it out to be.
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Trump is apparently a war mongering neocon. :silly:
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Trump is apparently a war mongering neocon. :silly:
According to some he's channeling Sun Tzu.
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These things keep happening because Marine Corps aviation...like the aviation branches of the other services have been forced to push back mandatory maintenance on aircraft past rational time frames because of lack of money thanks to sequestration.
They are literally flying aircraft...the ones that can fly....to the point where they fall out of the sky.
There have been stories posted here about parts having to be cannibalized from display aircraft to keep combat jets flying.
The AF went out to the Bone Yard in Arizona a couple years ago and got a B-52 up and running to maintain flight ops.
It's worse than what some people are making it out to be.
Except in this case, it's due to an accident with a V-22, which has inherent problems with the tilt rotor design like pilot induced oscillation and vortex ring state.
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Except in this case, it's due to an accident with a V-22, which has inherent problems with the tilt rotor design like pilot induced oscillation and vortex ring state.
For the most part they've gotten the issues with the Osprey straightened out from what I can find.
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For the most part they've gotten the issues with the Osprey straightened out from what I can find.
I don't want to stray too far off the thread subject and hijack it. Given the fact the aircraft was making its landing approach to the carrier, that would seem to be a likely cause, due to the aircraft history with vertical descent.
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These things keep happening because Marine Corps aviation...like the aviation branches of the other services have been forced to push back mandatory maintenance on aircraft past rational time frames because of lack of money thanks to sequestration.
They are literally flying aircraft...the ones that can fly....to the point where they fall out of the sky.
There have been stories posted here about parts having to be cannibalized from display aircraft to keep combat jets flying.
The AF went out to the Bone Yard in Arizona a couple years ago and got a B-52 up and running to maintain flight ops.
It's worse than what some people are making it out to be.
There were plenty of news stories last years from Conservative media outlets (before the Great Trump Purge of non-obeiscent media as 'fake news')and a few liberal ones that discussed this very issue of cannibalism for parts along with the force strength of our armed forces under Obama, which was universally at 1940 levels, and the Navy at 1917 levels (http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/199570-obama-naval-doctrine-anchors-away).
Now, the same folks screaming about how those facts were harming us in Iraq, Syria and A'stan are hung-ho on attacking Venezuela while we are looking at a major Korean combat op?????
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There were plenty of news stories last years from Conservative media outlets (before the Great Trump Purge of non-obeiscent media as 'fake news')and a few liberal ones that discussed this very issue of cannibalism for parts along with the force strength of our armed forces under Obama, which was universally at 1940 levels, and the Navy at 1917 levels (http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/199570-obama-naval-doctrine-anchors-away).
Now, the same folks screaming about how those facts were harming us in Iraq, Syria and A'stan are hung-ho on attacking Venezuela while we are looking at a major Korean combat op?????
That's what appears to be happening.
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The part I don't see being discussed is how this plays right into The Left's narrative.
First of all, what better way to unite than to have an outside threat? This will help Maduro.
Secondly, The Left has been predicting we will intervene in Venezuela because it has oil.
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The part I don't see being discussed is how this plays right into The Left's narrative.
First of all, what better way to unite than to have an outside threat? This will help Maduro.
Secondly, The Left has been predicting we will intervene in Venezuela because it has oil.
Bingo. Its exactly what Chavez did and now Maduro does in blaming shadowy outside enemies (Primarily America).
Its probably a lot more effective for Venezuelan national heroes like Miguel Cabrera to speak as he has been about the need for Govt to stand down and let the people choose new leadership.
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"....a President Trump will not get us into countless wars..." - Soon to be revealed briefer from 2016
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"....a President Trump will not get us into countless wars..." - Soon to be revealed briefer from 2016
Which one of the resident forum clowns said that?
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Getting involved would backfire IMO... then the Chavistas would say that the new government was just a "puppet" of the US and all that.
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I take anything from someone talking out of ignorance about the military personally.
What you said was stupid and uncalled for.
Cut the crap. You floated the notion of an OpSec violation to scare people off from posting on this thread pure and simple.
A PR person wouldn't know opsec if it bit them in the rear end.
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A PR person wouldn't know opsec if it bit them in the rear end.
Gee didn't know you were a PR person. Thanks for letting us know that.
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Anyone seen that bumper sticker that says something like "Jesus may love you, but I think you're an a-hole" ?
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Gee didn't know you were a PR person. Thanks for letting us know that.
Oh we know who the pr person is. Nobody here has anything but publicly available information. People who know aren't posting here. I've got 53 years left on my non disclosure but sure don't know anything current.
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Oh we know who the pr person is. Nobody here has anything but publicly available information. People who know aren't posting here. I've got 53 years left on my non disclosure but sure don't know anything current.
:nometalk:
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Oh we know who the pr person is. Nobody here has anything but publicly available information. People who know aren't posting here. I've got 53 years left on my non disclosure but sure don't know anything current.
Apparently you don't because I dont do PR.
Clearly you have me mistaken for someone else.
:shrug:
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Apparently you don't because I dont do PR.
Clearly you have me mistaken for someone else.
:shrug:
Yeah right.
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Anyone seen that bumper sticker that says something like "Jesus may love you, but I think you're an a-hole" ?
I love it, It fits a couple of members here, perfectly, but we can't talk about it specifically @RoosGirl