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General Category => World News => Topic started by: TomSea on October 07, 2018, 01:31:19 am

Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2018, 01:31:19 am
Quote
Turkey believes Saudi journalist was murdered in consulate: report
By TM - October 7, 2018
(https://www.turkishminute.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Khashoggi.jpg)
Jamal Khashoggi / AFP PHOTOS

Turkish police have concluded that prominent Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi was murdered inside the Saudi mission in Istanbul after going missing Tuesday, AFP reported, citing an unnamed government official.

“Based on their initial findings, the police believe that the journalist was killed by a team especially sent to İstanbul and who left the same day,” the official told AFP.

The news came hours after police confirmed that around 15 Saudis, including officials, arrived in Istanbul on two flights on Tuesday and were at the consulate at the same time as the journalist.

Read more at: https://www.turkishminute.com/2018/10/07/turkey-believes-saudi-journalist-was-murdered-in-consulate-reports/ (https://www.turkishminute.com/2018/10/07/turkey-believes-saudi-journalist-was-murdered-in-consulate-reports/)

https://apnews.com/ba7563845ebe473b887bff0ed42817a5/Washington-Post:-Turkish-officials-say-Saudi-writer-killed?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow (https://apnews.com/ba7563845ebe473b887bff0ed42817a5/Washington-Post:-Turkish-officials-say-Saudi-writer-killed?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow)

I'd lean towards thinking this fellow was murdered there, he had contributed to the Washington Post. I would hope he could just be held prisoner.
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2018, 10:40:46 am
Quote
Where Is Jamal Khashoggi?
Graeme Wood
The Saudi journalist urged his Kingdom toward reform—and may have paid a terrible price for his dissent.

On Tuesday, a Saudi citizen named Jamal Khashoggi entered his country’s consulate in Istanbul, attempting to get a routine document relating to his impending marriage to a Turkish woman. His fiancée waited for him to emerge. He did not—at least not in a form she could see—and for the last several days, the Middle East has speculated about his fate. On Saturday, Reuters and others reported that Khashoggi had been murdered inside, and some reports added that his dismembered corpse had been smuggled out in multiple parcels. The Saudis say he left the consulate freely.

Two months ago I saw Khashoggi, intact and eating a salmon benedict for breakfast in London. Among Saudi exiles, Khashoggi was famous enough to have to take precautions about where he appeared publicly—not, he said, because he feared assassination, but because in some places frequented by Arabs he might be seen, and have his breakfast interrupted. He wore a pastel suit without a tie, and when he stood up I noted that he was tall, with a big head that sat on his shoulders like a pale white pumpkin. He was 59.

Khashoggi was a dissident. But dissent from the Saudi monarchy takes forms that might surprise Western liberals. A handful of Saudi dissidents have called for abolition of the Saudi monarchy, or secularization of Saudi Arabia so it resembles Western states. Khashoggi moved in Western circles—he wrote a column for The Washington Post and was well-connected in both London and D.C.—but he did not dream of transforming Riyadh into either. He dissented from his rulers only modestly, and in our conversation he affirmed his allegiance to the king and acknowledged that the House of Al Saud should rule the Kingdom in perpetuity. He contested certain policies that the crown prince had implemented or was preparing to implement, in his view unwisely.

Read more at: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/where-is-jamal-khashoggi/572434/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/where-is-jamal-khashoggi/572434/)
Title: Re: The Atlantic: Where Is Jamal Khashoggi?
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2018, 11:02:58 am
This reporter Kashoggi, covered the Afghanistan war with the USSR in the 1980s and was embedded with Osama bin Laden but bin Laden just happened to be in the insurgency where he was reporting. His cousin was Adnan Kashoggi, per the article, a big arms dealer. Some are familiar with him.

This article from the Sydney Morning Herald gives more info on him.

The stories all say, he went to the Saudi consul in Istanbul to get a marriage document to marry his fiance. There is no real proof that he has been killed. It's sort of a mystery at this point.

Quote
Khashoggi's fine line between Osama bin Laden and a Saudi Crown prince
Liz Sly
8 October 2018 —

Beirut: Perhaps nowhere in the world was the news of Donald Trump's election as president greeted with greater joy than in Saudi Arabia, whose rulers had chafed at his predecessor's outreach to their arch-foe Iran and welcomed the prospect of a Republican president more in line with Saudi thinking.

One Saudi dissented from the otherwise overwhelming acclaim. Jamal Khashoggi, 59, a veteran journalist and opinion-maker, expressed misgivings about the implications of Trump's presidency for the Middle East. He cautioned that Trump's anti-Muslim sentiments and seeming closeness to Russian President Vladimir Putin would jeopardise Saudi interests, and thought the royal family's trust in him was misplaced.

For those views, reported in The Washington Post and articulated in tweets and at a Washington think tank, he was ordered by the Saudi authorities to stop writing and speaking publicly, unleashing a chain of events that may have culminated in his disappearance and possible death inside Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul last week.

Read more at: https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/khashoggi-s-fine-line-between-osama-bin-laden-and-a-saudi-crown-prince-20181008-p508cu.html (https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/khashoggi-s-fine-line-between-osama-bin-laden-and-a-saudi-crown-prince-20181008-p508cu.html)

Also interesting is the mention of this Washington DC think tank, "New American":

https://www.newamerica.org/ (https://www.newamerica.org/)    Seems to be a left-leaning think tank. I'm looking at some of their articles.


--------------

Update: Turkey is asking permission to search the Saudi consulate.
Title: Re: The Atlantic: Where Is Jamal Khashoggi?
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2018, 08:47:14 pm
al Jazeera:

Quote
Saudi Arabia will allow Turkey to search consulate for Khashoggi
Crown prince says Turkey welcome to search its consulate in Istanbul for Saudi dissident who disappeared this week.
(https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2018/10/5/b227e02438024d4f8e4c30ef553564b5_18.jpg)
A demonstrator holds a picture of Jamal Khashoggi during a protest in front of Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul [Osman Orsal/Reuters]

Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has welcomed Turkey to search the Saudi consulate in Istanbul following the disappearance of prominent journalist Jamal Khashoggi who entered the mission earlier this week.

In an exclusive interview with Bloomberg, published on Friday, bin Salman said Saudi Arabia is "very keen to know what happened" to the Saudi citizen, adding "we have nothing to hide".

Khashoggi, a Saudi dissident critical of the country's crown prince, entered the consulate's premises on Tuesday in what seemed to be a routine visit to sort out paperwork, before disappearing.

Read more at: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/mbs-saudi-arabia-hide-jamal-khashoggi-181005190230610.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/mbs-saudi-arabia-hide-jamal-khashoggi-181005190230610.html)

Sands shifting a bit on this matter.  Some reports say perhaps, he could be alive.


Title: Re: The Atlantic: Where Is Jamal Khashoggi?
Post by: Fishrrman on October 08, 2018, 10:34:44 pm
One less muslim.
Fine with me.
Title: Re: The Atlantic: Where Is Jamal Khashoggi?
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2018, 12:30:52 am
Quote
Trump 'concerned' about Khashoggi after days of silence

...

Leaders within the ruling Republican party issued a varying array of condemnations and concerns.

US Republican Senator Lindsey Graham tweeted on Monday that it was "imperative" to find out what happened to the Saudi Arabian dissident.

"Honest answers must be forthcoming for the sake of the Saudi-US relationship," he wrote.

Graham also said that if allegations of Saudi wrongdoing prove true, "it would be devastating to the US-Saudi relationship and there will be a heavy price to be paid — economically and otherwise".

...

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/deafening-silence-white-houses-response-jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-992416786 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/deafening-silence-white-houses-response-jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-992416786)

Quote

Vice President Mike Pence

‏Verified account @VP
1h1 hour ago

Deeply troubled to hear reports about Saudi Arabian journalist Jamal Khashoggi. If true, this is a tragic day. Violence against journalists across the globe is a threat to freedom of the press & human rights. The free world deserves answers.
1,057 replies 1,380 retweets 4,542 likes

https://twitter.com/VP (https://twitter.com/VP)
Title: Re: The Atlantic: Where Is Jamal Khashoggi?
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2018, 12:33:31 am
One less muslim.
Fine with me.

That's how you put the radicals and extremists in charge of things. More dangerous for everyone.
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2018, 11:35:00 am
Quote
Pompeo calls on Saudi government to investigate Khashoggi disappearance

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Monday called on the government of Saudi Arabia to support “a thorough investigation” of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance and to be transparent about the results of that investigation.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-pompeo/pompeo-calls-on-saudi-government-to-investigate-khashoggi-disappearance-idUSKCN1MJ066 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-pompeo/pompeo-calls-on-saudi-government-to-investigate-khashoggi-disappearance-idUSKCN1MJ066)
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2018, 02:37:23 pm
This is how Saudi Arabia is partly defending itself against the allegation they killed or kidnapped this Khashoggi fellow. The story is causing worldwide outrage,  the President and the Vice-President have voiced concern. We also have offered the FBI to aid the investigation if needed.

It's all complex, one part I do understand is that the Saudis are saying the "alleged hit team" from Saudi Arabia (KSA from now on), went to Turkey clearly, days after Khashoggi went missing.

The Saudi defense, no more, no less.

Quote
Jamal Khashoggi mystery: Deleted tweets, unnamed ‘sources’ and fake funeral

Media outlets continue to rehash news reports claiming that missing Saudi writer Jamal Khashoggi has been killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, despite statements from Turkish President Recep Tayib Erdogan himself, who refuted the claims and said he is hopeful the writer will emerge unharmed.

The question really is, how did international media outlets fall prey for the initially weakly-sourced news report, and another false report that was later deleted, as well as citing an unknown woman?

“The night of the deleted tweets,” as many observers have termed it online, seems to explain it all.

Read more at: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2018/10/08/Jamal-Khashoggi-mystery-Deleted-tweets-unnamed-sources-and-fake-funeral.html (https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2018/10/08/Jamal-Khashoggi-mystery-Deleted-tweets-unnamed-sources-and-fake-funeral.html)

Months ago, Arkady Babchenko's death was faked in Ukraine. Could we have that here? This is a real life sort of murder mystery or story worthy of being an espionage thriller.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Babchenko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Babchenko)

(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/05/30/TELEMMGLPICT000164982817_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqhBWOclGGsg7UCCMfQgjcl5sMLzfiFT9jAlgFuzA44Vc.jpeg?imwidth=480)
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2018, 02:52:25 pm
Quote
US intercepted Saudi plans to capture missing journalist, report says
 By Lukas Mikelionis | Fox News

U.S. intelligence agencies reportedly intercepted Saudi officials discussing a plan to capture Jamal Khashoggi, the journalist who disappeared after visiting the Saudi consulate in Turkey.

Top Turkish officials fear he was murdered and that his dismembered body was flown out of the country.

The Washington Post is reporting that before the journalist disappeared on Oct. 2, Saudi officials discussed a plan to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia.

Read more at: https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-intercepted-saudi-plans-to-capture-missing-journalist-report-says (https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-intercepted-saudi-plans-to-capture-missing-journalist-report-says)
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2018, 03:00:11 pm
Quote
Rand Paul Seeks Vote to Block U.S.-Saudi Arms Sales Over Missing Journalist
By Erik Wasson

Senator Rand Paul increased U.S. congressional pressure on Saudi Arabia by saying he’d seek to block future arms sales to the country after reports that a journalist was murdered inside the kingdom’s consulate in Istanbul for criticizing the royal family.

Paul, a Kentucky Republican, said Tuesday he would force a vote to reject sales the next time the U.S. government informs lawmakers of a planned shipment, a response to the disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who was last seen entering the consulate.

In June, Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey, the top Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, notified the Trump administration he would use an informal procedure to block sales to Saudi Arabia because of his concern about the Saudi-led coalition fighting in Yemen. That remains in place, according to a Democratic aide.

Read more at: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-09/vote-sought-to-block-u-s-saudi-arms-sales-over-khashoggi-s-fate?srnd=premium (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-09/vote-sought-to-block-u-s-saudi-arms-sales-over-khashoggi-s-fate?srnd=premium)

Notice, Sen. Menendez is mentioned as well. Pretty good on foreign affairs actually.

Sen. Rand Paul has been advocating for some time, a halt or at least, closer scrutiny over weapons sales meant for Saudi Arabia. Now, some might listen to him instead of his being a voice in the wilderness.
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2018, 03:11:17 pm
Excerpt:

Quote
Apple Watch, hired jet, mystery vehicle figure in search for missing Saudi dissident

Orhan Coskun, Sarah Dadouch, Stephen Kalin16 Min Read

ISTANBUL (Reuters) ...

....

Two senior Turkish officials revealed the existence of an object that may provide important clues to Khashoggi’s fate: the black Apple watch he was wearing when he entered the consulate. The watch was connected to a mobile phone he left outside, they said.

Investigators are also focusing on 15 Saudi men who entered the consulate around the same time as Khashoggi and left a short time later. These men had arrived hours earlier from Riyadh, most of them by private plane, the officials said. By the end of the day, they were on their way back to the kingdom.

...

And investigators are trying to trace a vehicle that left the Saudi consulate at the same time as two cars destined for the airport, one of the officials said. This vehicle didn’t turn toward the airport, but set off in the opposite direction.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-insight/apple-watch-hired-jet-mystery-vehicle-figure-in-search-for-missing-saudi-dissident-idUSKCN1MK1WY (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-insight/apple-watch-hired-jet-mystery-vehicle-figure-in-search-for-missing-saudi-dissident-idUSKCN1MK1WY)
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2018, 11:02:17 pm
Khashoggi worked for the Washington Post,  the Saudis would have had to know, his murder would cause an uproar. The Saudis also should have known there is CCTV in Istanbul... yet, one of the stories I posted earlier, said US intelligence caught scent of a plot.

A pro-Saudi story again. We may never know, unless, Khashoggi staged his own death and comes out.

al Arabiya:
Quote
The link between 3 figures behind the Jamal Khashoggi mystery
(https://vid.alarabiya.net/images/2018/10/10/4869f063-b0df-4348-b91d-ec4f14793a7b/4869f063-b0df-4348-b91d-ec4f14793a7b_16x9_788x442.jpg)

The mystery over missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi has been riddled with misreported news, dubious sources and orchestrated media campaigns.

But three key figures have been the face of this, exaggerating and embellishing the story with fake news to spark panic and place blame on Saudi authorities.

THE FIANCÉE

Suspicions surrounding Khashoggi’s self-claimed fiancée Hatice Cengiz first arose following a background check that showed her connections to Qatar, the country with state-sponsored media outlets that had been adamantly accusing Saudi authorities of murdering Khashoggi.

Read more at: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2018/10/10/The-link-between-3-figures-behind-the-Jamal-Khashoggi-mystery.html

One wonders if the Saudi defense holds up. They've pretty much been declared guilty already.
Title: Re: Apple Watch, hired jet, mystery vehicle figure in search for missing Saudi dissident
Post by: Fishrrman on October 11, 2018, 01:09:47 am
I'm wonderin' if the Saudis did a "Helle Crafts" on this guy.
(Connecticut woodchipper murder, a couple of towns over from me)
Title: Re: Apple Watch, hired jet, mystery vehicle figure in search for missing Saudi dissident
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 01:11:34 am
BBC has a very nice graphic, 

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/AA8B/production/_103795634_saudi_journalist_640-nc.png)
Diplomatic vehicles were seen entering the consulate and driving to the Saudi consul's residence shortly after Mr Khashoggi's arrival

That above, sounds rather damning. If they did this, they should have known they can't get away with it the way the world is watched nowadays, at least, not like this.

Full article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45817736 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45817736)

Just saw this article. Thanks for contributing.

This Khashoggi, well, I don't know what he was like but of countries that go around assassinating people, I don't want to make light of it, you hunt the fellow down in the dark or ride by him on a motorcycle. There were plenty of better ways IF they did this. I'm not totally convinced they did. It could be a hoax. Diplomatic cars probably go to and from the consul to the residence fairly often.

Other articles, I don't know how the Turks/other intelligence would know this but are saying, he was dismembered. Kind of morbid to think about and taken out of the Consul building.
Title: Re: Apple Watch, hired jet, mystery vehicle figure in search for missing Saudi dissident
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 01:18:33 am
Senator Bob Corker tweeted this letter:

Quote
Senator Bob Corker
‏Verified account @SenBobCorker
3h3 hours ago

Today, we sent a letter to the administration triggering an investigation and Global Magnitsky sanctions determination regarding the disappearance of Saudi journalist and @washingtonpost columnist #JamalKhashoggi.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpLcPj1WwAEF1FH.jpg:large)
https://twitter.com/KyleWOrton

Turkey and Saudi Arabia do not have the best of relations, Saudi Arabia said something about Turkey, Iran and Russia being something like, an evil axis or something like that. I forget how it was worded.
Title: Re: Apple Watch, hired jet, mystery vehicle figure in search for missing Saudi dissident
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 02:42:40 am
Saudi Consul told their Turkish consul workers which per the article, there are 28 of these workers, to not come into work that day.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/saudi-consulates-28-turkish-staff-khashoggis-disappearance (https://www.middleeasteye.net/saudi-consulates-28-turkish-staff-khashoggis-disappearance)

Pretty damning if true. Checking twitter and #khashoggi , one article says Washington has turned very sour on Saudi Arabia.  Other articles are saying that King Salman, the young bearded guy, ordered this. Too bad, sounds like they did kill the guy.

Also, at first, The Saudis were saying they'd let the police in and look around, I think stories say they nixed that idea.
Title: Khashoggi’s Disappearance Puts Kushner’s Bet on Saudi Crown Prince at Risk
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 03:21:52 am
Quote
Khashoggi’s Disappearance Puts Kushner’s Bet on Saudi Crown Prince at Risk
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/10/11/us/politics/11dc-diplo1-print/11dc-diplo1-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
Jared Kushner, a senior adviser to President Trump, in the background of a meeting in March at the White House.CreditCreditDoug Mills/The New York Times

WASHINGTON — For President Trump, who has made Saudi Arabia the fulcrum of his Middle East policy, the possible murder of a Saudi journalist in Turkey is a looming diplomatic crisis. For Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, it is a personal reckoning.

More than anyone in the Trump administration, Mr. Kushner has cultivated Saudi Arabia’s crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman — whose family may have played a role in the disappearance of the journalist, Jamal Khashoggi — elevating the prince into a key ally in the Arab world and the White House’s primary interlocutor to the kingdom.

Mr. Kushner championed Prince Mohammed, 33, when the prince was jockeying to be his father’s heir; had dinner with him in Washington and Riyadh, the Saudi capital; promoted a $110 billion weapons sale to his military; and once even hoped that the future king would put a Saudi stamp of approval on his Israeli-Palestinian peace plan.

Read more at: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/10/us/politics/jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-kushner.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/10/us/politics/jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-kushner.html)
Title: Did the U.S. Fail Its “Duty to Warn” Jamal Khashoggi? How U.S. Directive 191 Applies to Kidnapping T
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 03:38:34 am
If the US heard the Saudis might have this plot? Then we should have told the guy. The story isn't totally adding up; and I would have thought we would have.

   
Quote
Did the U.S. Fail Its “Duty to Warn” Jamal Khashoggi? How U.S. Directive 191 Applies to Kidnapping Threats
by Ryan Goodman
October 10, 2018

The question of whether the United States is failing to respond adequately to foreign governments’ attempted kidnapping or assassination of political opponents, dissidents and journalists—even when it takes place on the soil of NATO allies—is raising concerns for many.

How President Donald Trump and the U.S. government as a whole have responded to such actions is further complicated by whether the U.S. and its intelligence community have advance knowledge of such an attack. That’s because there is an internal government order in place requiring U.S. intelligence agencies to warn an intended victim if the agency acquires information that a threat of kidnapping, murder, or serious bodily injury is imminent.

This question is already being raised with respect to the fate of Saudi journalist and U.S. resident Jamal Khashoggi, who disappeared a little over a week ago after he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.  Turkish authorities have said they believe Khashoggi was murdered inside the consulate and have provided what they believe is evidence of the plan to reporters. The Saudi government has denied all allegations.

Read more at: https://www.justsecurity.org/61001/united-states-fail-duty-warn-jamal-khashoggi-intelligence-directive-191-applies/ (https://www.justsecurity.org/61001/united-states-fail-duty-warn-jamal-khashoggi-intelligence-directive-191-applies/)

Potentially, could become a huge story. Khashoggi wrote columns for the Washington Post, so they will definitely want to get to the bottom of this.
Title: Re: Did the U.S. Fail Its “Duty to Warn” Jamal Khashoggi? How U.S. Directive 191 Applies to Kidnappi
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 03:39:54 am
Also in the article:

Quote
“Although I cannot comment on intelligence matters, I can say definitively the United States had no advance knowledge of Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance,” State Department Deputy spokesman Robert Palladino

So, this says we didn't know.
Title: Re: Did the U.S. Fail Its “Duty to Warn” Jamal Khashoggi? How U.S. Directive 191 Applies to Kidnappi
Post by: Frank Cannon on October 11, 2018, 03:45:30 am
I am glad Trump didn't get involved prior to the incident. It's non of out GD business what happens to some filthy rag head foreign national in some foreign country. He is not an American. Eff him.
Title: Saudi crown prince says Jared Kushner handed him U.S. intelligence
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 03:49:35 am
Okay, this story is from April, 2018 but pertinent to the current situation.

Quote
Saudi crown prince says Jared Kushner handed him U.S. intelligence

By Ryan Parry West Coast Correspondent For Dailymail.com and Josh Boswell For Dailymail.com 13:23 05 Apr 2018, updated 14:58 05 Apr 2018

    Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman met with Jared Kushner in October


    Salman has since bragged about using classified intelligence from Kushner as part of a crackdown on 'corrupt' princes and businessmen in Saudi Arabia

    He said the intelligence from Kushner included information on those who were disloyal to Salman and who were his 'enemies', insiders tell DailyMail

    Kushner's attorney's spokesman said it was 'false' that the president's son-in-law passed on secrets and that he was 'well aware of the rules'

    The crown prince launched his crackdown on corruption in November, days after he met Kushner for talks in Riyadh

    Hundreds were rounded up, including princes from rival parts of the Saudi royal family and some of the country's wealthiest businessmen

    But the crackdown saw accusations of torture and at least one reported death

Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman bragged of receiving classified US intelligence from Jared Kushner and using it as part of a purge of 'corrupt' princes and businessmen, DailyMail.com can disclose.

Read more at: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5575395/amp/Saudi-crown-prince-brags-Jared-Kushner-handed-U-S-intelligence.html?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5575395/amp/Saudi-crown-prince-brags-Jared-Kushner-handed-U-S-intelligence.html?__twitter_impression=true)

Bad news but why would our intelligence be so much better? The story grows, this will be a big story, not sure if any of the other forums have stories on this.
Title: Re: Saudi crown prince says Jared Kushner handed him U.S. intelligence
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 03:52:32 am
Khashoggi's cousin, one can look this up, Adnan Khashoggi was a very wealthy arms trader. Okay, who would an arms seller in Saudi Arabia be selling to?  Terrorists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Khashoggi
Title: Re: Apple Watch, hired jet, mystery vehicle figure in search for missing Saudi dissident
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 03:41:30 pm
Also, with this matter, we are dealing with "diplomatic immunity".  It is a good concept.

I don't know if there are ways around it. The Consul should be stormed by the law actually but that is outside the law. We have to live with that. The law must be respected.

Title: What the media aren’t telling you about Jamal Khashoggi
Post by: TomSea on October 11, 2018, 05:33:52 pm
Quote
What the media aren’t telling you about Jamal Khashoggi | Spectator USA
John R. Bradley

As someone who spent three decades working closely with intelligence services in the Arab world and the West, the Saudi dissident and Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi knew he was taking a huge risk in entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul last week to try to obtain a document certifying he had divorced his ex-wife.

A one-time regime insider turned critic of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman — the de facto head of the Saudi kingdom which tolerates no criticism whatsoever — Khashoggi had been living in Washington for the previous year in self-imposed exile amid a crackdown on independent voices in his homeland.

He had become the darling of western commentators on the Middle East. With almost two million Twitter followers, he was the most famous political pundit in the Arab world and a regular guest on the major TV news networks in Britain and the United States. Would the Saudis dare to cause him harm? It turns out that the answer to that question was ‘You betcha.’

Read more at: https://spectator.us/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi/

We'll see. I don't know if this website is related to American Spectator or the US edition of the UK website, Spectator. Just posting this without knowing the full article.

I see it does say, Khashoggi should have been aware he was taking a risk for even entering the Saudi consul.   
Title: Drudge Report: TURKS: RECORDINGS PROVE KHASHOGGI MURDERED
Post by: TomSea on October 12, 2018, 12:40:08 am
Drudge Report: TURKS: RECORDINGS PROVE KHASHOGGI MURDERED


Quote
Khashoggi was killed, Turks say
Shane Harris, Souad Mekhennet, John Hudson and Anne Gearan, The Washington Post Published 8:02 pm EDT, Thursday, October 11, 2018

Shane Harris, Souad Mekhennet, John Hudson and Anne Gearan, The Washington Post

ISTANBUL - The Turkish government has told U.S. officials that it has audio and video recordings that prove Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul this month, according to U.S. and Turkish officials.

The recordings show that a Saudi security team detained Khashoggi in the consulate after he walked in on Oct. 2 to obtain an official document before his upcoming wedding, then killed him and dismembered his body, the officials said.

The audio recording in particular provides some of the most persuasive and gruesome evidence that the Saudi team is responsible for Khashoggi's death, the officials said.

Read more at: https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Turkey-agrees-to-Saudi-request-to-jointly-13300365.php (https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Turkey-agrees-to-Saudi-request-to-jointly-13300365.php)
Title: Menendez⁩ says what US knows is “incredibly disturbing,” (Khashoggi)
Post by: TomSea on October 12, 2018, 12:48:51 am
Quote
Tamara Cofman Wittes
‏ @tcwittes
4h4 hours ago

After another intel briefing on #Khashoggi today, ⁦@SenatorMenendez⁩ says what US knows is “incredibly disturbing,” and Saudi Arabia has “a lot of answering to do.”

https://twitter.com/tcwittes/status/1050481659278180354 (https://twitter.com/tcwittes/status/1050481659278180354)
Quote
Menendez: 'Growing sentiment' against Saudi arm sales
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/10/11/bob-menendez-amanpour-khashoggi.cnn (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/10/11/bob-menendez-amanpour-khashoggi.cnn)

Stating the obvious, but they know more than us, especially Senators like Menendez who sit on the foreign relations committee.
Title: Turkey denies Trump claim US investigators working on missing Saudi case
Post by: TomSea on October 12, 2018, 01:13:33 am
Quote
    October 11 2018 17:14:50
Turkey denies Trump claim US investigators working on missing Saudi case
ANKARA

Turkey on Oct. 11 denied a claim by President Donald Trump that American investigators were working with both Ankara and Riyadh to probe the disappearance in Turkey of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

“The information that the United States has tasked investigators over the Khashoggi case is not correct,” said a Turkish diplomatic source quoted by the state-run Anadolu news agency.

Trump earlier said “we have investigators over there and we’re working with Turkey and frankly we’re working with Saudi Arabia”.

Read more at: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-denies-trump-claim-us-investigators-working-on-missing-saudi-case-137771 (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-denies-trump-claim-us-investigators-working-on-missing-saudi-case-137771)

This is more of the kinds of inconsequential things the President says. It's a misstatement, not really a lie which some would say.  I just kind of shrug about it.  One might say, he might have been under that impression as well.
Title: Re: Turkey denies Trump claim US investigators working on missing Saudi case
Post by: the_doc on October 12, 2018, 01:20:01 am
This is more of the kinds of inconsequential things the President says. It's a misstatement, not really a lie which some would say.  I just kind of shrug about it.  One might say, he might have been under that impression as well.

If an American journalist goes missing in Turkey in some sort of connection to Saudi Arabia, I would assume that American investigators were/are working the case both in Turkey and Saudi Arabia.  In other words, I believe Trump may have been correct, no matter what Turkish officials are saying.  Perhaps "Ankara" (the Turkish government) does not even know what we are doing.   
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 12, 2018, 08:14:23 am
Quote
If the worst is proved in the Jamal Khashoggi affair, the US and the UK will have a case to answer too
David Wearing @davidwearing

At around 1.30pm last Tuesday, 2 October, the Saudi Arabian journalist Jamal Khashoggi arrived with his fiancée at the kingdom’s consulate in Istanbul for a pre-arranged appointment to obtain a document he needed to marry her. She waited for him outside, and at past midnight she was still waiting. Khashoggi has not been seen since.

The Turkish authorities (in a country with its own terrible record of repressing journalists) have begun a criminal investigation, while multiple officials have briefed the media that they believe him to have been murdered, which the Saudis categorically deny. The row is a major embarrassment for the UK and US, the leading backers of Saudi Arabia under its new crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman.

Khashoggi had been close to the ruling family until he went into self-imposed exile last year, believing that power in Riyadh was becoming too centralised around bin Salman, and that already strict limits on political speech were being further curtailed to an excessive degree. His criticisms were relatively mild and reformist in nature, but were enough to make him a bête noire to the monarchy.

Read more at: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jamal-kashoggi-disappearance-us-uk-saudi-arabia-istanbul-consulate-mohammed-bin-salman-a8579771.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jamal-kashoggi-disappearance-us-uk-saudi-arabia-istanbul-consulate-mohammed-bin-salman-a8579771.html)

I watched one economist that talked about how Saudi Arabia's petrodollars does help keep the world economy afloat. One might notice, Russia and China too for that matter, aren't often concerned with human rights violations.

How far can we go? Sanctions?

Might open up a sticky-thread for "Saudi Arabian crisis."  It may be needed. Wait-and-see.
Title: Caught red-handed, Saudi Arabia's best choice is to come clean
Post by: TomSea on October 12, 2018, 09:02:11 am
Excerpt, Daily Sabah, Turkish newspaper:

Quote
Caught red-handed, Saudi Arabia's best choice is to come clean

...

The disappearance of Khashoggi is a very serious criminal act and a huge problem for Saudi Arabia. It represents a violation of international law and an unprecedented break with diplomatic protocol. Saudi officials, who were complicit in the assassination, must be brought to justice. The United States and others must support Turkey's efforts to uncover the truth.

If Khashoggi was the victim of a state-sanctioned assassination, as Turkish authorities and everyone else seem to believe, Saudi Arabia's political leadership must start thinking about their global image. Over the past year, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has spent a lot of time and money to portray himself as a moderate reformist. The murder of Khashoggi, by contrast, has earned him a reputation akin to Moammar Gadhafi, who had Imam Musa Sadr and his two companions killed during an official visit in 1978. Even the Saudi crown prince's most passionate supporters in the West have bowed to public pressure and turned against Riyadh. Going forward, it will take a lot more money to hire surrogates in the West.

At the same time, the Khashoggi affair raises serious questions about the competence of Saudi Arabia's security operatives. The fact that Turkey could crack the case in hours and the United States had reportedly intercepted Saudi communications about the planned attack against Khashoggi in advance highlighted the narrow limits of Riyadh's operational capabilities. Murdering an unarmed man does not a regional power make.

Read more at: https://www.dailysabah.com/editorial/2018/10/11/caught-red-handed-saudi-arabias-best-choice-is-to-come-clean (https://www.dailysabah.com/editorial/2018/10/11/caught-red-handed-saudi-arabias-best-choice-is-to-come-clean)

The article goes on to say, in the past, in the UK and Switzerland, Saudi intelligence intimidated or abducted dissidents but this is a wholly different situation now.

The story goes, they tortured him too along with what the rest of the article says.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpRc6xmXoAI3YQS.jpg)
Title: Re: Caught red-handed, Saudi Arabia's best choice is to come clean
Post by: TomSea on October 12, 2018, 09:16:47 am
Tweet, the block seems to be a quote by Trump. What does one think of it?

Wils🎃n Dizard
‏Verified account @willdizard

I really hope everybody who thought Khashoggi's killing would create a "crisis" for US-Saudi relations reads this five times and then five times again. h/t @atrupar
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpQFUOZW0AEX6O2.jpg)

https://twitter.com/willdizard/status/1050470475397308416
Title: Re: Caught red-handed, Saudi Arabia's best choice is to come clean
Post by: edpc on October 12, 2018, 01:35:59 pm
Turkey 'has recordings of Jamal Khashoggi's torture and murder in Saudi consulate'


Turkish intelligence reportedly have audio and video recordings from inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul where Jamal Khashoggi’s Saudi captors can be heard interrogating, torturing, and ultimately murdering him.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/turkey-apos-recordings-jamal-khashoggi-112000831.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/turkey-apos-recordings-jamal-khashoggi-112000831.html)


If they really have this, they’re burning a source inside the consulate to make it known.
Title: Re: Caught red-handed, Saudi Arabia's best choice is to come clean
Post by: Fishrrman on October 13, 2018, 01:05:27 am
edpc wrote:
"If they really have this, they’re burning a source inside the consulate to make it known."

Maybe their "source" is no longer inside the consulate...
Title: Re: If the worst is proved in the Jamal Khashoggi affair, the US and the UK will have a case to answ
Post by: Fishrrman on October 13, 2018, 01:09:08 am
"How far can we go? Sanctions?"

It will likely be "business as usual"...
Title: Re: Apple Watch, hired jet, mystery vehicle figure in search for missing Saudi dissident
Post by: TomSea on October 13, 2018, 02:03:11 am
Supposedly, the apple phone recorded what happened and sent it to his telephone which he left with his fiance and that is how, allegedly, we know what happened. Still watching this. The latest update would be the investigators came in from Saudi Arabia to join the Turkish team of investigators.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1386846 (http://www.arabnews.com/node/1386846)

I wish it were fakery but almost everyone says he was murdered.
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 13, 2018, 11:02:13 am
Blunder, the picture is from a time, we were supporting the Mujahadin against the Soviet Union. So, under Reagan and some even visited the White House, there are pictures of them, we were supporting those insurgents, rebels, whatever word is proper.

Excerpt:

Quote
Donald Trump Jr. Peddles Tweet Linking Jamal Khashoggi To ‘Jihadists’
The president’s eldest son tweeted an exchange between conservative journalists who were apparently trying to smear Khashoggi.
By Carla Herreria

...

The president’s son retweeted an exchange between Patrick Poole, a terrorism correspondent for the conservative website PJ Media, and Sean Davis, co-founder of The Federalist, a conservative news site.

On Friday morning, Poole tweeted an image of a 1988 news article with Khashoggi’s byline that identifies the journalist holding a rocket-propelled grenade in a photo with mujahedeen in Afghanistan. The article has been cited in a book on Osama Bin Laden by CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen and another book on wars in Afghanistan by researcher Barnett R. Rubin, suggesting it is authentic.

(https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5bc15e18260000580183db89.png?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale)

What Trump Jr., Poole and Davis conveniently ignore is that when Khashoggi wrote the article, the United States government (and Osama bin Laden) also backed the Afghan fighters in their conflict with the Soviet Union.

Read more at: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-jamal-khashoggi-tweet_us_5bc14ddce4b0bd9ed55a59db (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-jamal-khashoggi-tweet_us_5bc14ddce4b0bd9ed55a59db)

An interesting story, also, in that these two in this tweet exchange, work for PJ Media and the Federalist.  They got "had", bad error.


Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 14, 2018, 01:04:20 am
Quote
Jamal Khashoggi: UK and US 'could boycott' Saudi conference

Britain and the US are considering boycotting a major international conference in Saudi Arabia after the disappearance Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, the BBC has learned.

Mr Khashoggi, a critic of the Saudi government, vanished on 2 October after visiting its consulate in Istanbul.

...

Donald Trump has said he would "punish" Saudi Arabia if it was responsible.

Read more at: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-45853598 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-45853598)
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 14, 2018, 08:39:06 am
Quote
Saudi delegation arrives in Ankara for talks on Khashoggi

A Saudi delegation has arrived in Turkey for talks on missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi, officials said Friday, with Riyadh and Ankara sharply at odds over how he disappeared last week from the kingdom's Istanbul consulate.

The Saudi team landed in Ankara amid increasing global pressure on the kingdom to clarify his fate. It is expected to meet Turkish authorities at the weekend, the official Anadolu Agency said.

As the controversy intensified, the Washington Post reported Turkish officials had recordings made from inside the building that allegedly proved their claims Khashoggi was tortured and killed at the consulate.

Read more at: https://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/2018/10/12/saudi-delegation-arrives-in-ankara-for-talks-on-khashoggi (https://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/2018/10/12/saudi-delegation-arrives-in-ankara-for-talks-on-khashoggi)

Damage control? Will they fess up?
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 14, 2018, 08:44:58 am
Quote
Martin Jay
Khashoggi’s Abduction was due to Western Media’s Greed and Vanity

Just how much responsibility should the West accept for the abduction and possible murder of Jamal Khashoggi? Or even Donald Trump himself? There are many Middle East commentators who, when Mohammed bin Salman became the crown prince of Saudi Arabia went as far as to say that his inauguration was entirely down to Trump. The US president pushed for the reshuffle in the Saudi royal family as MbS vowed to support him in anything he wished to do in the region. And the same can be said the other way around. The young crown prince more or less has a green light to do almost anything he wishes, unchallenged.

Unsurprisingly, since becoming crown prince, the arrests and abductions have risen, with many of those arrested erroneously accused of terrorism.
 
And so the West has created a monster in Saudi Arabia and we should not be surprised by this latest move by MbS which smacks of desperation on a whole new level, aimed at silencing a critic who, when we examine the evidence, was not an enemy or a threat in any way, but simply a Saudi editorialist with an opinion. Just an opinion.

Continued at: https://intpolicydigest.org/2018/10/11/khashoggi-s-abduction-was-due-to-western-media-s-greed-and-vanity/

Despite this opening, the author goes on to say the Washington Post itself, may have been too brazen in the articles they published.

What on earth was on the minds of Post editors to publish his articles in Arabic? We all have Khashoggi’s blood on our hands if we chose not to ignore Post editors’ decision or fail to acknowledge their lack of judgement.
Title: Re: Khashoggi’s Abduction was due to Western Media’s Greed and Vanity
Post by: Applewood on October 14, 2018, 11:01:04 am
If the Trump administration did meddle in Saudi affairs, then shame on them.  This country crows about Russia meddling in our elections -- and rightly so -- while the US is engaged in its own foreign manipulations.  It's hypocrisy, it's not right and that nonsense should stop. 

That all said  -- if this man was tortured and killed as has been alleged, then the fault lies with those who did the torture and killing.  I never accepted the notion that the US was responsible for 9-11 and I will not accept US responsibility here.
Title: Rubio: U.S.-Saudi relationship should be "completely revised" if Saudis killed missing journalist
Post by: TomSea on October 14, 2018, 04:04:41 pm
Quote
EMILY TILLETT CBS NEWS October 14, 2018,
Rubio: U.S.-Saudi relationship should be "completely revised" if Saudis killed missing journalist

Republican Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida says that the U.S.-Saudi relationship should be "completely revised" if the Saudi government killed Jamal Khashoggi, the prominent Saudi journalist who has been missing since entering a Saudi consulate in Istanbul several weeks ago.

On "Face the Nation" Sunday, Rubio said the U.S. should consider suspending arms sales to the Saudi kingdom should the allegations prove to be accurate. The U.S. supplies Saudi Arabia with tens of billions of dollars worth of arms, and the kingdom is a key U.S. ally in the volatile region. Earlier in the week, President Trump appeared hesitant about the possibility of ending arms sales, even if Saudi Arabia is found to be culpable in the journalist's disappearance.

"When you sell arms to Saudi Arabia, it gives you leverage over them, because they need replacement parts, they need the training," Rubio said. "You can't sanction a country by cutting them off of something if you never provided it in the first place. So it is true that arms sales gives us leverage. The question here is specifically whether our relationship with Saudi Arabia needs to be completely revised, including arms sales if in fact they carried out something like what they are accused of at this moment." 

Read more at: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marco-rubio-face-the-nation-u-s-saudi-relationship-should-be-completely-revised-if-they-killed-jamal-khashoggi/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marco-rubio-face-the-nation-u-s-saudi-relationship-should-be-completely-revised-if-they-killed-jamal-khashoggi/)
Title: Did Apple Watch record Khashoggi killing?
Post by: TomSea on October 14, 2018, 05:00:09 pm
Quote
Did Apple Watch record Khashoggi killing?
Rory Cellan-Jones
Technology correspondent

There is a story going around that Jamal Khashoggi, the journalist missing presumed killed, recorded exactly what happened inside Saudi Arabia's Istanbul consulate on his Apple Watch. It strikes me as extremely unlikely.

The story was first reported in the Turkish paper Sabah and was repeated across a number of news outlets.

Sabah says Khashoggi turned on his Apple Watch's recording facility before entering the Saudi consulate. Then it says the circumstances of his "interrogation, torture and killing" were recorded and sent to his iPhone, which was with his fiancée outside the consulate, and to Apple's iCloud.

Read more at: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45857777 (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45857777)

A few other articles have come out stating skepticism that this could be done.  If this was not recorded per the apple watch, I'm sure, there is eavesdropping equipment around but it makes me wonder. I think it still looks like the Saudis killed him but some say it is a coordinated attack.
Title: Re: Khashoggi’s Abduction was due to Western Media’s Greed and Vanity
Post by: Fishrrman on October 14, 2018, 11:18:18 pm
The Saudis ARE NOT "our friends".
They have never been our friends.
They will never BE our friends.

"that is all..."
Title: Re: Khashoggi’s Abduction was due to Western Media’s Greed and Vanity
Post by: Suppressed on October 15, 2018, 12:03:19 am
Now that the Apple Watch story is falling apart, what's the latest on what we think happened?
Title: Re: Khashoggi’s Abduction was due to Western Media’s Greed and Vanity
Post by: goodwithagun on October 15, 2018, 12:18:36 am
Now that the Apple Watch story is falling apart, what's the latest on what we think happened?

Turkey had the place bugged very well and therefore recorded the incident, and the Apple Watch story was a cover for that?
Title: Re: Khashoggi’s Abduction was due to Western Media’s Greed and Vanity
Post by: Suppressed on October 15, 2018, 12:36:28 am
Turkey had the place bugged very well and therefore recorded the incident, and the Apple Watch story was a cover for that?

That's what I'm thinking.  But could it be that the Turks are faking it...?
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 15, 2018, 09:06:37 am
Quote
EXCLUSIVE: A Qatari ‘whitewasher’ lands in US coinciding with Khashoggi crisis
Staff writer, Al Arabiya English Monday, 15 October 2018

Around the time that Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi first went missing in Istanbul 13 days ago, the Qatari government urgently dispatched several individuals to the United States.

Among them was Hassan Ali bin Ali, an important Qatari regime insider and businessman.

Bin Ali is believed to have met with several American and non-American media personalities.

Read more at: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2018/10/15/Ex-CIA-expert-No-audiotape-on-Khashoggi-was-given-to-US-intelligence.html

Saudi news outlet, basically Saudi defensive stories to the Kashoggi crisis.  I think KSA likely killed the guy but who knows? Qatar is currently, a bitter foe with Saudi Arabia. I'd welcome news that this is all a hoax.
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 15, 2018, 09:08:36 am
Quote
Ex-CIA expert: No audiotape on Khashoggi was given to US intelligence
Dalia Alaqidi, Al Arabiya English Monday, 15 October 2018

Turkey has not provided any evidence to US intelligence, including the alleged audiotape, in relation to the disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, an ex CIA expert told Al Arabiya English.

The source, who preferred to remain anonymous, said “unknown parties have been providing local and international media with conflicting reports and information.”

“Among the information are the claims to have an audio and video footage, then (they) changed their statement to just audio recording. Then was pushing the Apple watch theory to find out that the system of the watch does not support their allegations,” the ex CIA employee said.

Read more at: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2018/10/15/Ex-CIA-expert-No-audiotape-on-Khashoggi-was-given-to-US-intelligence.html

Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 15, 2018, 09:33:32 am
Quote
What is Turkey's strategy in dealing with Khashoggi case?
Turkey is using the Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi case for political leverage, analysts say.
by Linah Alsaafin

Istanbul - Turkish officials leaked information about missing Saudi writer Jamal Khashoggi to the media as part of a carefully calibrated bid to gain political leverage over Saudi Arabia and repair Turkey's relations with the United States, analysts said.

Khashoggi, a veteran journalist and contributor to the Washington Post, disappeared more than a week ago following a visit to the consulate of Saudi Arabia in Istanbul.

Days later, in a series of explosive leaks to the media, anonymous Turkish officials told reporters they believed a team of 15 Saudi agents killed and dismembered Khashoggi - a critic of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman - in the consulate.

Read more at: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/turkey-strategy-dealing-khashoggi-case-181014193618340.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/turkey-strategy-dealing-khashoggi-case-181014193618340.html)

Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis
Post by: TomSea on October 15, 2018, 09:40:54 am
Quote
Erdogan, Saudi King discuss Khashoggi case over phone
Turkish President Recep Tayip Erdogan stresses forming joint working group on missing journalist

By Merve Yildizalp

ANKARA

In a Sunday night phone call, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz discussed the disappearance of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Erdogan stressed forming a joint working group to probe the case, said a Turkish presidential source, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to restrictions on talking to media.

Khashoggi, a Saudi journalist and columnist for The Washington Post, has gone missing since he entered the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2.

Read more at: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/erdogan-saudi-king-discuss-khashoggi-case-over-phone/1281706 (https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/erdogan-saudi-king-discuss-khashoggi-case-over-phone/1281706)
Title: The Khashoggi case: Deeper than it seems
Post by: TomSea on October 15, 2018, 09:48:27 am
Quote
The Khashoggi case: Deeper than it seems

We have witnessed many assassinations and abductions targeting journalists in wars, conflict areas or during corruption or mafia-related cases. But the latest case of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi is unprecedented.

Briefly, Washington Post columnist Khashoggi entered the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul last week to get documents for his forthcoming marriage but hasn't left the building since then. This is an incident that cannot be described solely as a scandal. Such an instance has not been seen in the history of politics and diplomacy. The only shady point is not the consulate. It has been revealed that a 15-person team arrived in Istanbul on the day of the incident with two private jets that departed from Saudi Arabia and returned the same day. This information hints at the presence of a large-scale operation. Time will show the motivations behind this operation on global and regional levels, but there are a couple of questions that need to be answered immediately for now.

The most important question is undoubtedly what happened to Khashoggi. There are many allegations suggesting that he was killed inside the Consulate or abducted. Turkey's National Intelligence Organization (MÄ°T) and security forces are currently conducting a very thorough investigation by considering every single detail. But it must be stressed that before entering the Consulate, Khashoggi expressed his concerns to his fiancee as if he sensed what would happen to him: "If I don't go out, inform the Turkish-Arab Countries Association officials and the AK Party[Justice and Development Party]Vice Chairman Yasin Aktay." His remarks hint that Khashoggi was already suspecting that the opposite side was planning some moves against him.

Read more at: https://www.dailysabah.com/columns/mahmut_ovur/2018/10/15/the-khashoggi-case-deeper-than-it-seems (https://www.dailysabah.com/columns/mahmut_ovur/2018/10/15/the-khashoggi-case-deeper-than-it-seems)
Title: Re: The Khashoggi case: Deeper than it seems
Post by: TomSea on October 15, 2018, 10:24:25 am
I think this is the column where he surmises, the Saudis should find rogue elements did this and some Saudi party, that is someone important to take the fall. If Khashoggi was killed, could such a person be executed in Saudi Arabia back? That would seem just.

Quote
Soner Cagaptay
‏Verified account @SonerCagaptay

Soner Cagaptay Retweeted ANADOLU AGENCY (ENG)

Erdogan wants to give Saudis an exit out of #Khashoggi case, hoping the Saudi king/crown prince will blame "rogue elements" for the alleged murder, then throwing someone important under the bus. This would let Erdogan walk away looking good & prevent rupture in Turkey-Saudi ties
https://twitter.com/SonerCagaptay/status/1051683195052281856 (https://twitter.com/SonerCagaptay/status/1051683195052281856)

I read Trump knew the millionaire or billionaire late cousin of Jamal Khashoggi, Adnan Koshoggi (arms dealer) and even bought a yacht from him.  And then, they are related to Dodi Fayed who was seeing Princess Diane. Small world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Khashoggi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Khashoggi)
https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/editorial-features/trump-princess-inside-donald-trumps-lavish-86m-superyacht--34381 (https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/editorial-features/trump-princess-inside-donald-trumps-lavish-86m-superyacht--34381)

Here, Turkish newspaper Daily Sabah opines on whether the Saudis had a dress rehearsal with a black van allegedly used in this escapade. That they checked to see if it would fit in the Saudi consul garage.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dph_LvcWwAELI6m.jpg)


Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
14m14 minutes ago

#Khashoggi updates:

• Turkish police to search Saudi Consulate this afternoon
• Positive readouts by Turkish/Saudi officials after Erdogan/King phone call
• US officials gave Tuesday deadline to Saudis for proper explanation
• Allegations of cover at the Consulate
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1051776287256264705 (https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1051776287256264705)

I hope they let them in, I don't think they have yet.

One statement said, that 2 rooms were repainted. Who knows though? There's probably lots of disinformation about as one person said.





Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis
Post by: TomSea on October 15, 2018, 05:27:08 pm
Quote
Trump Says Putin 'Probably' Involved In Killings; Hints Mattis May Leave

U.S. President Donald Trump said in a television interview that he believes Russian President Vladimir Putin “probably” has been involved in assassinations and reiterated the assertion that Moscow meddled in U.S. politics.

Trump also said he does not know whether U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is planning to step down but that he sees the four-star general as “sort of a Democrat” who just might leave.

The comments came in a prerecorded interview with CBS television’s 60 Minutes program that aired on October 14. The wide-ranging discussion also touched on North Korea, U.S. hurricane relief efforts, the missing Saudi journalist in Turkey, and climate change.

Read more at: https://www.rferl.org/a/trump-defense-chief-mattis-future-could-be-leaving/29543146.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/trump-defense-chief-mattis-future-could-be-leaving/29543146.html)
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis
Post by: TomSea on October 15, 2018, 08:30:37 pm
Okay, as I say below, I am posting only threads I started in this special catch-all thread about the Khashoggi crisis. I won't move anyone thread started by someone else here unless requested. The board is possibly getting to crowded with the Saudi problems of the last 2 weeks.

Quote
Monday, October 15
Turkish prosecutors find 'evidence of killing'
Turkish authorities say prosecutors have found evidence that supports suspicions Khashoggi was killed in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

A source at the Attorney General's office, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Al Jazeera "they have found evidence that supports their suspicions that Jamal Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi consulate," our correspondent Jamal Elshayyal reported from Istanbul.

"This is a significant step forward after several days of an impasse," he said.

Continued: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi-case-latest-updates-181010133542286.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi-case-latest-updates-181010133542286.html)
Title: Re: Turkish prosecutors find 'evidence of killing'
Post by: TomSea on October 15, 2018, 08:38:17 pm
Quote
November 11, 2017
Lebanese Prime Minister al-Hariri ‘kidnapped’ by Saudis, country’s president says
By Ellen Francis   Reuters

Lebanon‘s president called on Saudi Arabia on Saturday to clarify why Lebanese Prime Minister Saad al-Hariri could not leave the kingdom and return home.


A senior Lebanese official said President Michel Aoun told foreign ambassadors that Hariri, who resigned suddenly while in Saudi Arabia a week ago, had been “kidnapped” and should benefit from immunity as prime minister.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3856231/lebanon-prime-minister-kidnapped-saudi-arabia/

A year ago, Saudi Arabia had this episode. It's also thought that they are fairly brutal in the war in Yemen, so it looks like someone is going to have to rein them in.  I know, people talked about the above alleged kidnapping but it didn't make much of a stir. It was as if he just couldn't leave the country.

Some stories that are coming out, still, could be fake news. It might be easier to get rumor-mongering out there in some of these countries. So, I'd be careful until we have solid confirmations.
Title: Re: Turkish prosecutors find 'evidence of killing'
Post by: truth_seeker on October 15, 2018, 09:05:19 pm
So am I to take it, the new Crown Prince is not a gentle, peaceful man, destined to lead SA toward a modern future?

Taqiyya,

is patient. The West is gullible.
Title: Re: Turkish prosecutors find 'evidence of killing'
Post by: Fishrrman on October 15, 2018, 10:34:07 pm
Truth_seeker wonders:
"So am I to take it, the new Crown Prince is not a gentle, peaceful man, destined to lead SA toward a modern future? "

Heh.
And to think there were people (probably even some right in this forum) that believed that...!
Title: Re: The Khashoggi case: Deeper than it seems
Post by: Fishrrman on October 15, 2018, 10:40:30 pm
Wasn't this guy Khashoggi a sympathizer with the muslim brotherhood?

If that's the case, the Saudis did the world a favor by killin' him.
Title: Saudi Arabian Crisis
Post by: TomSea on October 16, 2018, 04:45:00 am
Okay, here is a catch all for the Saudi Arabian news stories on Khashoggi. For now, I am stickying the threads I started here but nobody else's.  I don't want to invade anyone else's spaces. So, all discussion is welcomed in those threads or here.  I won't post anyone else's here to repeat unless requested. I think one thread on Putin accidentally got merged.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 16, 2018, 05:25:10 am
Quote
Saudi Crown Prince meets Russian envoy to Syria in Riyadh

(https://vid.alarabiya.net/images/2018/10/15/cfdcea96-c0ef-4d8a-8d15-402de19f9809/cfdcea96-c0ef-4d8a-8d15-402de19f9809_16x9_788x442.jpg)

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2018/10/15/Saudi-Crown-Prince-meets-Russian-envoy-to-Syria-in-Riyadh.html

If we skipped out on the Saudis? It's sort of the same reason we have skipped out on Turkey. For that so-called coup, Turkey has imprisoned many people and I think some have died for say, lack of medical attention. Not so much that they personally killed someone though, that may well have happened as well.

Khashoggi is very high profile.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 16, 2018, 09:18:45 am
Quote
Even if Saudi Arabia is behind Jamal Khashoggi's murder, experts say sanctions against Riyadh could backfire
Rosie Perper

    Saudi Arabia is reportedly preparing to admit that Jamal Khashoggi, a journalist and prominent Saudi critic who disappeared on October 2, was killed as a result of a botched interrogation effort.

    The move would mark a shifting response from the Royal Court, which previously asserted — without proof — that Khashoggi had left the Saudi Consulate. Depending on the facts that emerge, any negative action Saudi Arabia may have taken could trigger retaliation from the US in the form of sanctions.

    But experts say slapping sanctions on Riyadh could be an difficult option for the Trump administration, "given the size of the economic ties between Washington and Riyadh."

    Sanctions on Riyadh could ultimately backfire, as the Kingdom holds major clout in the global economy, as well as vested interests in the US economy.


https://www.businessinsider.com/will-donald-trump-us-impose-sanctions-on-saudi-arabia-over-jamal-khashoggi-2018-10 (https://www.businessinsider.com/will-donald-trump-us-impose-sanctions-on-saudi-arabia-over-jamal-khashoggi-2018-10)

Quote

US 'strategic interests' are likely to shape response to Saudi Arabia, expert says

Harini V

Despite reports suggesting the Saudi Arabian government was involved in the disappearance of U.S.-based journalist Jamal Khashoggi, Washington is likely to prioritize maintaining its relations with Riyadh, according to a think tank expert.

Khashoggi, a Washington Post columnist and critic of powerful Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, vanished two weeks ago after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to retrieve documents. Saudi Arabia has so far denied any wrongdoing.

NBC News reported on Monday that Riyadh is considering a plan to say Khashoggi was killed inside the consulate, potentially pointing to rogue operatives in an interrogation gone wrong.

Read more at: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/us-strategic-interests-may-shape-response-to-saudi-arabia.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/us-strategic-interests-may-shape-response-to-saudi-arabia.html)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 16, 2018, 02:26:54 pm
Buzzfeed article on some "Soldier of Fortune" types allegedly hired out as assassins in Yemen:

Quote
American Mercenaries Were Hired To Assassinate Politicians In The Middle East
“There was a targeted assassination program in Yemen. I was running it. We did it.”
Headshot of Aram Roston
Aram Roston

BuzzFeed News

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/aramroston/mercenaries-assassination-us-yemen-uae-spear-golan-dahlan (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/aramroston/mercenaries-assassination-us-yemen-uae-spear-golan-dahlan)

I can relate this a bit to the Turkish situation. It's sort of an article for mature audiences. I'm not positive if it should be posted. I welcome any feedback.

--------

In other news, Turkish police today will enter the residence home of the Saudi consul general which is relatively nearby.

Quote
Middle East Eye Breaking News:

'Certain evidence' of Khashoggi's murder found in consulate: Report

Source tells MEE the consulate has been meticulously searched, with particular attention focused on soil samples from the garden
Tuesday 16 October 2018 14:08 UTC

“Certain evidence” of Jamal Khashoggi’s murder has been found by police in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, a high-level official told the Associated Press on Tuesday.

The Turkish official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, did not elaborate on the evidence found.

On Monday a team of Turkish investigators and forensics experts entered the consulate 13 days after the prominent Saudi journalist was last seen walking into the building.

Read more at: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/certain-evidence-khashoggis-murder-found-consulate-report-204229259 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/certain-evidence-khashoggis-murder-found-consulate-report-204229259)

Well, well, in the soil.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 17, 2018, 03:30:07 am
Quote
Sen. Graham: Saudi crown prince ‘has got to go’ after Khashoggi's disappearance
Sen. Lindsey Graham said Tuesday on Fox News that he wants to see Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman forced out of his position after the mysterious disappearance of activist Jamal Khashoggi.

“This guy has got to go,” Graham, R-S.C., said on “Fox and Friends.” “Saudi Arabia, if you’re listening: There are a lot of good people you can choose, but MBS has tainted your country and tainted himself.”

He added, “The MBS figure is, to me, toxic. He can never be a world leader on the world stage.”

Khashoggi vanished two weeks ago during a visit to the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. Turkish officials said they fear Khashoggi was killed and dismembered inside the consulate. Saudis have called the allegations “baseless.”

Read more at: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sen-graham-saudi-crown-prince-'has-got-to-go'-after-khashoggis-disappearance/ar-BBOsJ9a?OCID=ansmsnnews11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sen-graham-saudi-crown-prince-'has-got-to-go'-after-khashoggis-disappearance/ar-BBOsJ9a?OCID=ansmsnnews11)

I tend to agree. Rubio has spoken out. We will see who else does.

Quote
Sen. Marco Rubio: Reported answers from Saudi Arabia about Khashoggi only raises more questions

 By Gabriella Muñoz - The Washington Times - Tuesday, October 16, 2018

Sen. Marco Rubio said Tuesday he is not ready to accept the answer that Saudi Arabia is reportedly preparing this week over the disappearance of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi.

Multiple media reports surfaced Monday night that noted the Saudi Arabia kingdom was preparing to acknowledge that Mr. Khashoggi was killed, but it may claim that it was not at the government’s order.

For Mr. Rubio, Florida Republican and a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, that reported reasoning will not be enough and only spurs more questions.

Read more at: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/16/marco-rubio-reported-answers-from-saudi-arabia-abo/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/16/marco-rubio-reported-answers-from-saudi-arabia-abo/)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 17, 2018, 03:39:24 am
Sports Illustrated, the Wrestling Federation apparently, has quite a stake in Saudi Arabia:
Quote
    wrestling

Senators Urge WWE to Reconsider Relationship with Saudi Arabia After Journalist’s Disappearance


...

The strongest rebuke came from New Jersey Democrat Bob Menendez.

“Private enterprise is private enterprise, different than a governmental entity,” Menendez told IJR. “but because [Linda McMahon] is part of the president’s cabinet, it falls into the grey area where the administration really should give it some thought and maybe even prevail upon them not doing it.”

One of the senators representing WWE’s home state had similar thoughts.

“I’d hope that they would be rethinking their relationship with the kingdom especially with respect to events coming up in the next weeks like [Crown Jewel],” Democrat Chris Murphy of Connecticut told IJR.

Read more at: https://www.si.com/wrestling/2018/10/12/wwe-saudi-arabia-senator-lindsay-graham-chris-murphy-jamal-khashoggi-disappearance (https://www.si.com/wrestling/2018/10/12/wwe-saudi-arabia-senator-lindsay-graham-chris-murphy-jamal-khashoggi-disappearance)

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 17, 2018, 02:41:32 pm
Quote
Saudis Plan to Pin Khashoggi Slaying on ‘Rogue’ General
Kimberly Dozier, Spencer Ackerman10.16.18 6:12 PM ET

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is starting to float a trial-balloon explanation for its apparent slaying of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, The Daily Beast has learned, in hopes of escaping the consequences of an episode that has shaken whatever geopolitical confidence existed in Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

According to two sources familiar with the version of events circulating throughout diplomatic circles in Washington, the Saudis will place blame for Khashoggi’s murder on a Saudi two-star general new to intelligence work. That line is in keeping with President Donald Trump’s Twitter-borne speculation that “rogue killers” may be responsible for whatever happened to Khashoggi inside Saudi Arabia’s Istanbul consulate on Oct. 2. Three other former U.S. officials did not have direct knowledge of the inchoate Saudi line but told The Daily Beast they expect Riyadh to blame a fall guy.

The Saudis are considering admitting that the general received approval from the Crown Prince to interrogate Khashoggi on the suspicion that he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist political faction whose rise during the Arab Spring prompted the Saudis and their allies in the United Arab Emirates to sponsor a wave of reaction. They also are considering intimating that Khashoggi received money from Gulf rival Qatar.

More: https://www.thedailybeast.com/saudis-plan-to-pin-khashoggi-slaying-on-rogue-general?source=twitter&via=desktop (https://www.thedailybeast.com/saudis-plan-to-pin-khashoggi-slaying-on-rogue-general?source=twitter&via=desktop)

Segment on Rush Limbaugh was informative:

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2018/10/16/bankrupt-left-wants-to-pin-khashoggi-murder-on-trump/ (https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2018/10/16/bankrupt-left-wants-to-pin-khashoggi-murder-on-trump/)

Rush said the author of this column from Spectator is an expert on these kinds of things:

Quote
What the media aren’t telling you about Jamal Khashoggi
The dissident’s fate says a lot about Saudi Arabia and the rise of the mobster state
John R. Bradley
https://spectator.us/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi/ (https://spectator.us/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi/)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 17, 2018, 03:02:08 pm
Quote
But despite these assurances, allegations against the Saudis are mounting, with a lurid account published Wednesday by pro-government Turkish newspaper Yeni Safak of Khashoggi's alleged slaying just the latest such example. The newspaper said it has heard an audio recording of Khashoggi’s murder in which Saudi Consul General Mohammed al-Otaibi could be heard on the tape telling those allegedly torturing Khashoggi: "Do this outside; you’re going to get me in trouble." It said one of the torturers replied: "Shut up if you want to live when you return to (Saudi) Arabia."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/10/17/jamal-khashoggi-new-claims-over-how-saudi-journalist-allegedly-killed/1667973002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/10/17/jamal-khashoggi-new-claims-over-how-saudi-journalist-allegedly-killed/1667973002/)
Quote
Passport scans show Saudis accused by Turkey of killing writer Jamal Khashoggi
by Josh Lederman / Oct. 16, 2018 / 7:25 PM CDT / Updated 5:27 AM CDT
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/passport-scans-show-saudis-accused-turkey-killing-writer-jamal-khashoggi-n920971 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/passport-scans-show-saudis-accused-turkey-killing-writer-jamal-khashoggi-n920971)

Within a week or so, they had suspects. I guess, the Turk law enforcement is actually fairly good in this department.
Quote
EXCLUSIVE: Seven of bin Salman's bodyguards among Khashoggi suspects
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/khashoggi-mohammed-bin-salman-saudi-arabia-suspects-969185217 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/khashoggi-mohammed-bin-salman-saudi-arabia-suspects-969185217)

Best reporting right now, is from Middle East Eye on all of this. They've gotten details of the story before others.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 17, 2018, 11:45:54 pm
Quote
Prominent evangelical leader on Khashoggi crisis: let’s not risk “$100 billion worth of arms sales”
https://www.vox.com/2018/10/17/17990268/pat-robertson-khashoggi-saudi-arabia-trump-crisis?fbclid=IwAR0A67hLxJEjtvrifjpaYQv-3kGIkLs86ChurYqZp9YHC9jom-UiRkSf4iM (https://www.vox.com/2018/10/17/17990268/pat-robertson-khashoggi-saudi-arabia-trump-crisis?fbclid=IwAR0A67hLxJEjtvrifjpaYQv-3kGIkLs86ChurYqZp9YHC9jom-UiRkSf4iM)

Doesn't mean it is wrong because Vox published it. Who doesn't think Russia or China or other countries too, would take that deal??
Title: Pompeo warns Saudi prince over Khashoggi, source says
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 02:09:54 am
Quote
Pompeo warns Saudi prince over Khashoggi, source says

(CNN) - Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's smiling photo op with Saudi Arabia's crown prince disguised the reality of a blunt, tough meeting in which the top US diplomat told the royal his future as king depends on his handling of Jamal Khashoggi's suspected murder.

A source familiar with Pompeo's Tuesday meeting with Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman tells CNN that the smiling photo-op between the two should not be read as an indication that the meeting was friendly.

Instead, Pompeo told bin Salman in no uncertain terms that he had to "own" the situation, and "that every fact is going to get out," said the source, who added that the smiles between the two men ended when the photo op did.

Read more at: https://www.ksat.com/news/international/pompeo-warns-saudi-prince-over-khashoggi-source-says (https://www.ksat.com/news/international/pompeo-warns-saudi-prince-over-khashoggi-source-says)
Title: How The Khashoggi Scandal Looks When You've Been Bombed By Saudi Arabia For Years
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 02:11:31 am
HuffPo:

Quote
How The Khashoggi Scandal Looks When You've Been Bombed By Saudi Arabia For Years
By Akbar Shahid Ahmed
WORLD NEWS

10/17/2018 08:06 pm ET

The journalist’s disappearance triggered a massive global backlash against Saudi Arabia. Its bloody war in Yemen never has.

Global media and international decision-makers, right up to the president of the United States, have spent more than a week talking about what happened to missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi and what it means for human rights and Saudi Arabia’s long-standing foreign relationships. Radhya Almutawakel has stayed focused on her own work in Yemen: carefully documenting how Saudi actions there have claimed thousands of lives, often with the aid of American weapons.

“We can’t deny that there is a sourness inside all of us, that Yemenis have been dying for years, thousands of them, and millions starving, and the reaction is not as strong as in this case,” she told HuffPost.

Read more at: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jamal-khashoggi-saudi-arabia-yemen_us_5bc7a461e4b0a8f17ee8e950 (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jamal-khashoggi-saudi-arabia-yemen_us_5bc7a461e4b0a8f17ee8e950)
Title: The Latest: Washington Post publishes new Khashoggi column
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 02:13:05 am
Quote
The Latest: Washington Post publishes new Khashoggi column

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — The Latest on the disappearance of Saudi writer Jamal Khashoggi, a Washington Post columnist who went missing after entering the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul earlier this month (all times local):

3:45 a.m.

The Washington Post has published a new column by Jamal Khashoggi in which he warns that governments in the Middle East “have been given free rein to continue silencing the media at an increasing rate.”

The Post published the column Wednesday, more than two weeks after Khashoggi was last seen entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Turkish officials say he was killed by Saudi agents. The Saudi government has denied it.

Read more at: https://apnews.com/6c5335f334064d6f8c272e8d93bd4b02
Title: Saudi Arabia transfers $100 million to U.S. on day of Pompeo visit to discuss missing journalist
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 02:14:24 am
Quote
Saudi Arabia transfers $100 million to U.S. on day of Pompeo visit to discuss missing journalist
John Hudson

The United States received a payment of $100 million from Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, the same day Secretary of State Mike Pompeo arrived in Riyadh to discuss the disappearance of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, a State Department official confirmed Wednesday amid global calls for answers in the case.

Saudi Arabia publicly pledged the payment to support U.S. stabilization efforts in northeastern Syria in August, but questions persisted about when and if Saudi officials would come through with the money.

The timing of the transfer, first reported by The New York Times, raised questions about a potential payoff as Riyadh seeks to manage the blowback over allegations that Saudi agents were responsible for Khashoggi's disappearance. The State Department denied any connection between the payment and Pompeo's discussions with Saudi officials about Khashoggi, a Washington Post contributing columnist.

Read more at: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-saudi-arabia-payment-20181017-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-saudi-arabia-payment-20181017-story.html)
Title: Trump campaign veterans were paid $5.4 million by Saudi Arabia for doing virtually nothing
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 02:29:57 am
Quote
Trump campaign veterans were paid $5.4 million by Saudi Arabia for doing virtually nothing
Heather Timmons

Saudi Arabia’s influence in the US is being scrutinized after the disappearance of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul.

One of ways that influence has been felt: a rush of lobbying dollars. The kingdom spent more than $19 million with Washington lobbying groups from the beginning of 2017 until now, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

Topping that list is Sonoran Policy Group—a lobbying firm headed by Robert Stryk, an Oregon winery owner and West Coast advisor to the Trump campaign—which was essentially paid $5.4 million by the Saudi government to do nothing. The no-strings payout was a happy accident for the firm, one that happened because of Saudi Arabia’s political upheaval, rather than anything Sonoran did specifically.

Read more at: https://qz.com/1424637/saudi-arabia-paid-trump-campaign-veterans-5-4-million/

@Once-Ler  You might find this article of interest.
Title: Saudi Targeting of Yemen is Worse than Khashoggi’s Disappearance
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 02:32:45 am
This Patrick Cockburn is pretty far-out there. But just posting for balance. Some of this might inadvertently, be pro-Russian propaganda stuff, which I try to stay away from.

Quote
Saudi Targeting of Yemen is Worse than Khashoggi’s Disappearance
Patrick Cockburn • October 12, 2018

The plot to supposedly murder Jamal Khashoggi, as apparently proved by Turkish audio and video evidence shown to US officials, is a grizzly mixture of savagery and stupidity: Jack the Ripper meets Inspector Clouseau. Neither element is surprising because violent overreaction to minor threats is a traditional feature of dictatorial rule. As seems to be the case with Saudi Arabia today, Iraq under Saddam Hussein made immense efforts to eliminate exiled critics who posed no danger to the regime.

It is the purpose of such alleged assassinations and kidnappings to not only silence dissident voices however obscure, but to also intimidate all opponents at home and abroad by showing that even a hint of criticism will be suppressed with maximum force. But it is in the nature of dictators that their judgement is unbalanced because they never hear opinions contrary to their own. Iraq invaded Iran in 1980 and Kuwait in 1990 with disastrous results. Saudi Arabia started its war in Yemen in 2015, with similarly catastrophic results, and now appears to think that it can get away with brazenly assassinating Khashoggi, as apparently proved by Turkish investigators. Saudi Arabia firmly denies any involvement in Khashoggi’s disappearance and says he left the consulate safely that afternoon.

It is important to watch how long the torrent of criticism of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Saudi Arabia will last. President Trump has been muted in his comments, emphasising the need to keep on terms with the Saudis because of the $110bn contract to sell them arms. Some of those most accustomed to kowtowing to Gulf monarchs, like Tony Blair, are comically reluctant to criticise Saudi Arabia despite the compelling evidence of the murder produced by Turkey. The best Blair can do is to say that the issue should be investigated and explained by Saudi Arabia “because otherwise it runs completely contrary to the process of modernisation”. Even for Blair this is surely a new low, and it could also be a dispiriting straw in the wind, suggesting that political elites in the US and UK will not be shocked for long and criticism will be confined to the alleged killing of Khashoggi.

Read more at: http://www.unz.com/pcockburn/saudi-targeting-of-yemen-is-worse-than-khashoggis-disappearance/ (http://www.unz.com/pcockburn/saudi-targeting-of-yemen-is-worse-than-khashoggis-disappearance/)
Title: Turkey’s justice minister calls on public to ‘ignore leaks’ in Khashoggi case
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 10:12:55 am
Quote
Turkey’s justice minister calls on public to ‘ignore leaks’ in Khashoggi case

Turkish Justice Minister Abdulhamit Gül called on the public to ignore any leaked information in the case of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Several news outlets have released reports quoting anonymous official sources who claim to have found breaking evidence in the case, however, no concrete evidence has surfaced indicating any information about who is behind Khashoggi’s disappearance.

This includes false stories about a group of 15 Saudi tourists who were accused of being government agents sent to kill Khashoggi, and stories about how his Apple watch revealed “recordings” indicating that he was tortured and killed. Both claims were falsified with a series of evidence and analyses.

Read more at: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2018/10/18/Turkey-s-justice-minister-calls-on-public-to-ignore-leaks-in-Khashoggi-case.html
Title: Re: Trump campaign veterans were paid $5.4 million by Saudi Arabia for doing virtually nothing
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on October 18, 2018, 12:07:11 pm
@Once-Ler  You might find this article of interest.
Thank you. @TomSea
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 02:47:44 pm
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu  Turkish journalist who tweets a lot of informative information. As said earlier, most everything is not officially said by the Turkish government.


Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
2h2 hours ago

Axios: Pompeo told Prince Mohammed bin Salman on Tuesday that he had 72 hours to complete his "investigation" into the murder of #Khashoggi
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

Good lord! Look at this tweet:


Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
3h3 hours ago

Updates on #Khashoggi case:
• AJ/Turkish media: Police is investigating 2 locations in Istanbul for the corpse, based on car routes
• Pictures show Diplomat/Soldier close to MBS was at the Consulate (Sabah)
• One member of Saudi Hit team killed in Saudi Arabia (Yeni Safak)

Next tweet does show the stop in Houston and this Mutreb fellow. He might be a physician, one who carried out some of the dirty work.

Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
14h14 hours ago

NYT yesterday confirmed the identity of  Mutreb among Saudi Hit squad that allegedly killed #Khashoggi at the Istanbul Consulate. 

Now Sabah published his pictures tying him to the crime scene.

NYT says he was a diplomat in London in 2007, travels extensively with Crown Prince

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpwFPFCWwAMSAUp.jpg)

From another tweet, showing Mutreb at the consul.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpv8AhlXUAUPIXE.jpg)

I think, too, the tweets say the Police have found a corpse in Istanbul and are checking into it.

Again, as the prior post says, a lot of this is just from sources, not confirmed statements.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 04:16:58 pm
Quote
Khashoggi probe: Suspicious Saudi van leads Turkish police to woodland

Investigators and sniffer dogs are combing new areas after tracking movements of diplomatic vehicle, source tells MEE

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/khashoggi-probe-suspicious-van-leads-turkish-police-woodland-1379135219 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/khashoggi-probe-suspicious-van-leads-turkish-police-woodland-1379135219)

A lot of people have withdrawn from an investment convention in KSA, "Davos in the Desert"
https://mg.co.za/article/2018-10-18-magda-wierzycka-on-why-she-opted-out-of-davos-in-the-desert-summit (https://mg.co.za/article/2018-10-18-magda-wierzycka-on-why-she-opted-out-of-davos-in-the-desert-summit)

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 18, 2018, 09:27:09 pm
Trump says it looks like Saudi journalist Khashoggi is dead


WASHINGTON/ISTANBUL (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Thursday he presumes journalist Jamal Khashoggi is dead and that the U.S. response to Saudi Arabia will likely be “very severe” but that he still wanted to get to the bottom of what exactly happened.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-search/trump-says-it-looks-like-saudi-journalist-khashoggi-is-dead-idUSKCN1MS08Q?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-search/trump-says-it-looks-like-saudi-journalist-khashoggi-is-dead-idUSKCN1MS08Q?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results)


Extremely pathetic equivocation from the President and SoS in this story.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 09:42:48 pm
Quote
• One member of Saudi Hit team killed in Saudi Arabia (Yeni Safak)

Per above, even Rush mentioned this and said how it was playing out a bit like a James Bond thriller, killed in a car wreck.

Saudi press keeps on coming up with defenses. Someone said their defenses were weak but I don't know myself.

Quote
Khashoggi’s alleged fiancée and ties to radical ‘charity’ linked to ISIS, Qaeda
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2018/10/18/Khashoggi-s-alleged-fianc-e-and-ties-to-a-radical-charity-linked-to-ISIS-al-Qaeda.html (http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2018/10/18/Khashoggi-s-alleged-fianc-e-and-ties-to-a-radical-charity-linked-to-ISIS-al-Qaeda.html)

Then, it gets rather long-winded per explanation.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 18, 2018, 09:46:03 pm
Quote
'Forced to hide our names': Anonymous Saudi clerics call for bin Salman to go

Group claiming to speak for scholars opposed to government policies say crown prince should carry blame for Jamal Khashoggi's suspected killing

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-scholars-group-calls-removal-mbs-light-khashoggi-case-362661960 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-scholars-group-calls-removal-mbs-light-khashoggi-case-362661960)

The clerics though, are against Western influence. So, this is not some clear choice to me.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 19, 2018, 02:00:07 am
Pompeo listened to an alleged recording of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi: Turkish Source

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has heard an alleged audio recording of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi's murder inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, according to a senior Turkish official.

Speaking exclusively and on condition of anonymity to ABC News, the official claimed the recording was played in meetings in Turkey on Wednesday, and that Pompeo was given a transcript of the recordings.


https://www.yahoo.com/gma/pompeo-listened-alleged-recording-murder-jamal-khashoggi-source-224003979--abc-news-topstories.html (https://www.yahoo.com/gma/pompeo-listened-alleged-recording-murder-jamal-khashoggi-source-224003979--abc-news-topstories.html)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 19, 2018, 02:13:13 am
FWIW and I think it's the same ABC story:

Quote
The White House referred questions to the State Department which denied Pompeo had heard the recording or seen a transcript.

"Secretary Pompeo has neither heard a tape nor has he seen a transcript related to Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance," said State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert

https://abcnews.go.com/International/pompeo-listened-alleged-recording-murder-jamal-khashoggi-source/story?id=58595725

Could be just an official denial though, really. The article is titled that he heard the alleged recording per that source.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 19, 2018, 02:21:12 am
FWIW and I think it's the same ABC story:

Could be just an official denial though, really. The article is titled that he heard the alleged recording per that source.


Yes, they’re basically the same story.  Additionally, Pompeo also said this...


Yesterday, on his way back from Istanbul, Pompeo was asked if he had heard the audio.

"I don’t have anything to say about that," he said.



He’s heard it.  Whether it’s authentic and can be confirmed may be another story.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 19, 2018, 02:36:26 am
Here, this Washington Times story confirms what I heard elsewhere,  Turkey is basically milking this....I guess, that is to say, this is a bit of a political football and quite a few other countries might do the same given the same circumstances.
Quote
Turkey exploits Khashoggi diplomatic crisis to poke at Saudi Arabia, Trump
Recep Tayyip Erdogan slowly -- some say strategically -- leaks out grisly details of investigation

 By Gilgamesh Nabeel and Jacob Wirtschafter — Special to The Washington Times - - Thursday, October 18, 2018

ISTANBUL — It’s an odd mix of outrage, fear, bafflement and a sneaking undertone of satisfaction as Turks watch the international drama over the fate of U.S.-based Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi play out on the streets.

The outrage and fear spring from concerns that Saudi Arabia, a diplomatic dissenter and historic rival for influence in the Islamic world, would feel empowered to dispatch a “hit team” into the heart of Turkey’s largest city to take out a meddlesome critic.

The satisfaction, building as the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan slowly — some say strategically — dribbles out grisly details of the investigation, fueling a building international outrage against Riyadh and ambitious Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

Read more at: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/18/jamal-khashoggi-killing-gives-turkey-chance-hit-sa/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/18/jamal-khashoggi-killing-gives-turkey-chance-hit-sa/)

And Iran and Qatar, probably look at this as well, and are enjoying the rut it's putting the Saudis into.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 19, 2018, 02:42:16 am
The satisfaction, building as the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan slowly — some say strategically — dribbles out grisly details of the investigation, fueling a building international outrage against Riyadh and ambitious Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.


Of course.  Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkey are all vying for dominance in the region.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 19, 2018, 03:19:42 pm
Quote
Conservatives mount a whisper campaign smearing Jamal Khashoggi in defense of Trump
Robert Costa, Karoun Demirjian

Hard-line Republicans and conservative commentators are mounting a dark whisper campaign against Jamal Khashoggi that is designed to protect President Donald Trump from criticism of his handling of the dissident journalist's alleged murder by Saudi Arabia operatives - and support Trump's continued aversion to a forceful response to the oil-rich desert kingdom.

In recent days, a cadre of conservative House Republicans allied with Trump has been privately exchanging articles from right-wing outlets that fuel suspicion of Khashoggi, highlighting his association with the Muslim Brotherhood in his youth and raising conspiratorial questions about his work decades ago as an embedded reporter covering Osama bin Laden, according to four GOP officials involved in the discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly.

Those aspersions - which many lawmakers have been wary of stating publicly because of the political risks of doing so - have begun to flare into public view as conservative media outlets have amplified the claims, which are aimed in part at protecting Trump as he works to preserve the U.S.-Saudi relationship and avoid confronting the Saudis on human rights.

Read more at: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-conservative-whisper-campaign-khashoggi-20181018-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-conservative-whisper-campaign-khashoggi-20181018-story.html)


Commenting on the Washington Post piece:
Quote
Marco Rubio
‏Verified account @marcorubio

Going gangster on a writer wasn’t just immoral,it was disrespectful to Trump & to those of us who have supported the Saudi’s. They gave Ayatollah a gift & us a controversy. So instead of attacking #Khashoggi,be angry at whoever ordered the Code Red on him.

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1053262225576771585 (https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1053262225576771585)

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: mountaineer on October 19, 2018, 10:31:10 pm
Quote
Razor    @hale_razor
Oct 18

So weird that Hillary hasn't yet criticized the Saudi government that donated over $10 million to her slush fund.
:laugh:


On a more serious note:
Quote
Ryan Saavedra   Verified account @RealSaavedra
5m5 minutes ago

BREAKING: Saudi Arabia admits journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the consulate in Istanbul, claims that he was killed after he got into a fight with people in the consulate.

Saudi Arabia says it has detained 18 Saudi nationals after a preliminary investigation.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: Gefn on October 19, 2018, 11:01:08 pm
Good gravy, RIP.

This is so dang sad. He could write. He didn’t deserve this.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 19, 2018, 11:46:16 pm

BREAKING: Saudi Arabia admits journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the consulate in Istanbul, claims that he was killed after he got into a fight with people in the consulate.



Fighting people who are coming at you with sedatives and bone saws is bound to happen.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 20, 2018, 12:44:06 am
Thanks to @mountaineer and @edpc  for breaking that latest news and thanks to everyone. I'm thinking we can keep this thread open for more or less, another week. This sad chapter's first stage seems to be closing.

There is a website, MEMO, It's Middle East Monitor but it's kind of wicked to Western eyes, it's more or less, a Palestinian propaganda site, they are running this story:

Quote
Saudi prince: ‘The King ordered Khashoggi’s death and Mohammed bin Salman carried it out’
October 19, 2018 at 2:00 am | Published in: Asia & Americas, Europe & Russia, Middle East, News, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, US   

Dissident Saudi Prince Khalid bin Farhan Al-Saud has demanded King Salman bin Abdulaziz to abdicate the throne in favour of his brother Prince Ahmed bin Abdulaziz after the disappearance of journalist Jamal Khashoggi; an incident that has provoked international outrage.

Prince Khalid bin Farhan, who lives currently in Germany, said:  “King Salman’s royal line should not be imposed as a fourth kingship. Your brothers were kings, and you also became one. It is not Saudi Arabia’s absolute fate that one of your grandchildren becomes the ruler, and then the rest of your offspring monopolises the thrown afterwards. Among the Saudi Royalty, there are highly cultivated, and humane princes with a good educational level and they are popular outside and even inside the ruling family.”

During an interview with the German DW TV, The Saudi prince also stated: “Your brother Ahmed bin Abdulaziz is highly ethical, and you are aware of this, not only you but the whole royal family and the Saudi people realise it. So, the wise thing to do, if you have any wisdom left, is to abdicate the throne in his favour and save what remained of your dignity.”

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20181019-saudi-prince-the-king-ordered-khashoggis-death-and-mohammed-bin-salman-carried-it-out/ (https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20181019-saudi-prince-the-king-ordered-khashoggis-death-and-mohammed-bin-salman-carried-it-out/)

So, I suppose if this was a tv interview, the interview happened, I doubt if the rest of this is true. It certainly would not be good news for us. Some of those stories at MEMO are not believable. But it's worth looking around to see what people are saying.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 20, 2018, 01:20:05 am

Quote
Mark Knoller
‏Verified account @markknoller

More than once, Pres Trump said he would "prefer" if US retribution against Saudi Arabia does not mean cancelling its $110-billion order for America-made weapon systems. He says that could cost 600,000 jobs. But won't announce a US response till he speaks to the Crown Prince.

https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/1053448155587637248

600,000 jobs, that figure has been questioned. $110-billion obviously is a handsome sum.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: corbe on October 20, 2018, 01:49:56 am
   6 months ago I was silently grateful for the progress Kushner had made with the Saudi's, now it is a CF with no clean exit.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 20, 2018, 02:16:36 am
600,000 jobs, that figure has been questioned. $110-billion obviously is a handsome sum.


He didn’t waste any time canceling the Boeing contracts by re-imposing Iran sanctions.
Title: Turkey: Seek UN Inquiry on Khashoggi
Post by: TomSea on October 20, 2018, 03:14:12 am
Human Rights Watch, HRW:

Quote
Turkey: Seek UN Inquiry on Khashoggi
October 18, 2018 10:58AM EDT

(New York) – Turkey should urgently ask UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres to establish a United Nations investigation into the possible extrajudicial execution of the prominent Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, the Committee to Protect Journalists, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and Reporters Without Borders said today.

The investigation should determine the circumstances surrounding Saudi Arabia’s role in the enforced disappearance and possible killing of Khashoggi. It should aim to identify everyone responsible for ordering, planning, and executing any operations connected with the case.

“Turkey should enlist the UN to initiate a timely, credible, and transparent investigation” said Robert Mahoney, deputy executive director of the Committee to Protect Journalists. “UN involvement is the best guarantee against a Saudi whitewash or attempts by other governments to sweep the issue under the carpet to preserve lucrative business ties with Riyadh.”

Read more at: https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/10/18/turkey-seek-un-inquiry-khashoggi (https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/10/18/turkey-seek-un-inquiry-khashoggi)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 20, 2018, 11:31:40 am
Some of those countries are kill and be killed. Of course, there would be limits to this, but Pakistan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, all would seem to fit that mode.

An interesting tweet, rather true or not....on Khashoggi:

Quote
S. Rifai
‏ @THE_47th

Jamal DM’d me in 2012, inquiring about Assad’s siege of civilians in Baba Amro in Homs, #Syria. He asked me how he cd help smuggle out the kids and elderly people who were injured after the non stop shelling of the city. I know of at least 3 people who are alive because of him.
8:47 PM - 19 Oct 2018

https://twitter.com/THE_47th/status/1053492866100744197

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: Applewood on October 20, 2018, 12:06:29 pm
Thank you @TomSea for compiling all the news about this matter.  How much of what has been reported is true is anyone's guess.  I doubt we will ever know the truth. 

A liberal friend of mine was saying conservatives really don't care about Mr. KhashoggI and have used this tragedy to slam him because he worked for the Washington Post ("fake news"), that he was a Muslim, maybe he had ties to terrorists and such.  I don't know where she saw,  heard or read this.  Until this tragedy, I wasn't really familiar with Mr. Khashoggi and couldn't form an opinion of him one way or the other.    Even if I didn't like his work -- the man is dead in most likely a horrific manner and he had a fiancee and other people who cared about him.  What I might have thought about him doesn't matter now.  Time to put any animosity aside.   The man and his family deserve justice and I sincerely hope they get it.  Of course, whether they will get justice is another matter.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 20, 2018, 12:38:34 pm
A liberal friend of mine was saying conservatives really don't care about Mr. KhashoggI and have used this tragedy to slam him because he worked for the Washington Post ("fake news"), that he was a Muslim, maybe he had ties to terrorists and such.  I don't know where she saw,  heard or read this.  Until this tragedy, I wasn't really familiar with Mr. Khashoggi and couldn't form an opinion of him one way or the other.    Even if I didn't like his work -- the man is dead in most likely a horrific manner and he had a fiancee and other people who cared about him.  What I might have thought about him doesn't matter now.  Time to put any animosity aside.   The man and his family deserve justice and I sincerely hope they get it.  Of course, whether they will get justice is another matter.


Worst of all, the Saudis have been caught outright lying about the killing.  Since then, they’ve been confronted with more and more evidence, until they were allowed to manufacture this ridiculous current explanation.  At the very least, the official US response to this looked like amateur hour.  At the worst, the handling points to an executive who is compromised.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: bigheadfred on October 20, 2018, 01:11:28 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/20/us-ready-to-move-on-from-khashoggi-case-but-will-turkey-play-along (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/20/us-ready-to-move-on-from-khashoggi-case-but-will-turkey-play-along)

Something else to look forward to, here:  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiE6I-piZXeAhVh74MKHdkjBJoQFjACegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2018%2Faug%2F22%2Fsaudi-arabia-seeks-its-first-death-penalty-against-a-female-human-rights-activist&usg=AOvVaw3TOIU6KYu6v1ZluwUP6HRM (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiE6I-piZXeAhVh74MKHdkjBJoQFjACegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2018%2Faug%2F22%2Fsaudi-arabia-seeks-its-first-death-penalty-against-a-female-human-rights-activist&usg=AOvVaw3TOIU6KYu6v1ZluwUP6HRM)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: Victoria33 on October 20, 2018, 02:08:19 pm
bookmark
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 20, 2018, 03:45:26 pm
The Nation but salient points all the same. That's important points for those in Rio Linda.  And the universities spoken of here, are indeed, the more elite ones. That's the problem with the Saudis oil money, they have so much money, buy a Chateau in France, buy all kinds of things.
Quote
Why Are US Colleges Collaborating With Saudi Arabia?
By Stanley Heller March 20, 2018

Saudi Arabia’s crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, has come to the United States for a two-week visit and met with President Trump on Tuesday. Acclaimed by Pulitzer Prize winner Thomas Friedman as the spirit of the Arab Spring, MBS, as he is often called, is often described as a “reformer.” Unfortunately, there is the little matter of his Yemen war. He arrived just when Bernie Sanders’s bill to end US participation in that criminal adventure is slated for a Senate vote.

I’ve seen plenty on the Internet about the horrors in Yemen, but the one that got to me most recently was an Al Jazeera video of people eating food from a garbage dump, where they are competing for food with masses of flies. This is what the Saudis and the United States have brought to Yemen.

An early November story in The New York Times was headlined “Saudi Money Fuels the Tech Industry. It’s Time to Ask Why.” It talked about all the tech companies like Uber, Lyft, and Twitter that have taken investments from the Saudi government and private Saudi businessmen allied with the government, noting that the Saudi kingdom has an “abysmal record with human rights groups.” If businesses’ ethics can be challenged, then why not US colleges that take Saudi money?

Read more at: https://www.thenation.com/article/why-are-us-colleges-collaborating-with-saudi-arabia/ (https://www.thenation.com/article/why-are-us-colleges-collaborating-with-saudi-arabia/)

The next article, obviously, the Turks control the narrative, letting out information bit by bit.

BTW, on Erdogan, one of the articles I read said, Erdogan has fully embraced the Muslim Brotherhood as far as that goes.

The Atlantic:
Quote
Turkey Is Treating the Khashoggi Affair Like It’s Must-See TV

Erdoğan’s government is releasing information about the case bit by bit, seemingly in an effort to control the narrative about the journalist’s fate.
Borzou Daragahi
Oct 19, 2018

Most Americans don’t know it, but Turks are masters of serialized television. Long before Netflix, Hulu, and the addictive golden-age TV shows that dominate the small screen now, Turks were pumping out popular programs dubbed or subtitled in Arabic, Persian, Spanish, Russian, and English.

Set the story at exotic locales, like posh Istanbul villas with stunning views. Throw in an ill-fated romance, a do-gooder who meets a tragic end, a bullying villain, a shocking crime, some violence, a dash of political, international, or corporate intrigue, a few twists, and you’ve got a hit on your hands. Turkish producers have become experts at devising captivating tales that keep audiences tuning in week after week. 

Consider this pitch. A charming writer, keen to marry his young love, vanishes from a European consulate of his own country. The alleged culprits: a group of 15 goons, flown in on private jets, who are later revealed to have drugged, beaten, killed, and dismembered him. In the shadows lurks a brash young monarch eager to make his mark and silence those who might rally opposition. The details are like something out of CSI: Istanbul.

Read more at: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/10/turkey-narrative-khashoggi-saudi/573460/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/10/turkey-narrative-khashoggi-saudi/573460/)





Title: Khashoggi's Death Is an Eerie Reminder of a Soviet Killing
Post by: TomSea on October 20, 2018, 04:11:27 pm
Quote
Khashoggi's Death Is an Eerie Reminder of a Soviet Killing
Seventy years ago, the Soviets silenced a Czech critic and defied the US with unmatched boldness. The episode chillingly foreshadows the way the Saudis stonewalled.
Nicolaus Mills  10.19.18

(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1440,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1539992023/181019-mills-khashoggi-masaryk-hero_ovv9xg)

The almost surely fatal disappearance of Saudi journalist and Washington Post contributor Jamal Khashoggi after he entered the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul has a familiar ring to it. The Saudis have borrowed a page from the old Soviet Union playbook on the best way to get rid of a troublesome critic.

The Soviets showed how to silence a critic and defy America with unmatched boldness 70 years ago in Czechoslovakia. That is when the Czechs moved to lessen the Soviet Union’s control over their country and the Soviets struck back. Through a bloodless coup, they forced mass resignations from a Czech government they did not regard as sufficiently pro-Soviet. 

The problem for the Soviets was that they could not intimidate Jan Masaryk, the Czech foreign minister and the best-known figure in the Czech government.  The son of Tomas Masaryk, one of the founders of modern Czechoslovakia in 1918, Jan Masaryk had been ambassador to Great Britain from 1925 to 1938 and had an international reputation.  In 1948 he opted to remain in the Czech government.

Read more at: https://www.thedailybeast.com/khashoggis-death-is-an-eerie-reminder-of-a-soviet-killing (https://www.thedailybeast.com/khashoggis-death-is-an-eerie-reminder-of-a-soviet-killing)
Title: The Saudi government reportedly targeted and punished several dissidents after McKinsey identified t
Post by: TomSea on October 21, 2018, 02:51:24 am
Quote
The Saudi government reportedly targeted and punished several dissidents after McKinsey identified them in a report
Michelle Mark

    The Saudi government targeted and punished several dissidents after the American consultancy firm McKinsey & Company identified them in a report as critics, The New York Times reported.

    McKinsey reportedly created a nine-page report gauging public response to Saudi austerity measures announced in 2015, and found that three dissidents had a major influence over negative coverage on Twitter.

    One of the dissidents was arrested, another was hacked and had two brothers arrested, and a third, anonymous user's account was shut down, The Times reported.


Read more at: https://www.businessinsider.com/mckinsey-report-saudi-arabia-dissidents-arrest-2018-10 (https://www.businessinsider.com/mckinsey-report-saudi-arabia-dissidents-arrest-2018-10)
Title: The Saudi regime does not represent Islam
Post by: TomSea on October 21, 2018, 02:59:01 am
Quote
The Saudi regime does not represent Islam

Khaled A Beydoun

The recent disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi has the world's fingers pointed in the direction of the Saudi government, specifically at its de-facto leader, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

Khashoggi, a Saudi citizen living in exile in the United States because of his criticism of the Saudi regime, earned the esteem of audiences that read his political commentary in both Arabic and English. He was last seen alive entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on October 2, when he visited to procure documents he needed to wed his Turkish fiancee.

Speculation about bin Salman ordering his kidnapping, or state-sponsored murder, rose to the fore, dominating mainstream and social media discussions about the missing journalist's likely fate. On October 19, Saudi authorities finally admitted Khashoggi was killed inside the country's Istanbul consulate. This admission merely confirmed a conclusion most had already drawn given the regime's dismal human rights record and fierce intolerance to any criticism: The Saudi government was directly responsible for Khashoggi's disappearance and death.

Read more at: https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/saudi-regime-represent-islam-181019145130605.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/saudi-regime-represent-islam-181019145130605.html)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 21, 2018, 03:05:18 am
Quote
   McCain & Graham [Heart] the Muslim Brotherhood
By Andrew C. McCarthy

February 22, 2012 5:08 PM

Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham have taken time off from helping install an Islamist government in Libya (mainly the Muslim Brotherhood, with some help from al Qaeda) and calling for the arming of the Syrian “rebels” (mainly the Muslim Brotherhood, with some help from al Qaeda) to heap praise on the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

The post-Mubarak regime for which democracy project enthusiasts like McCain and Graham clamored is poised to try Americans they have taken prisoner. This is a particular blow for the senators because they sit on the board of one of the NGOs at the center of the crisis — the International Republican Institute, a progressive endowment that is a clearinghouse for channeling millions of American taxpayer dollars for “civil society development” across the globe. The IRI has served as a McCain fiefdom since he was given control of it 20 years ago. It is one of the organizations whose members have been accused of violating Mubarak-era Egyptian laws that bar NGOs from receiving foreign funding — laws that the Muslim Brotherhood opposed because they made it harder for the Brothers to rabble-rouse under the guise of “promoting democracy.”
 
<snipped>

Don’t say you weren’t warned. Back in 2008, I argued that McCain’s reputation as a tower of national-security strength is a myth, that “in reality, a McCain presidency would promise an entirely conventional, center-left, multilateralism” — i.e., “the same agonizing over European and Islamic perceptions of America; the same doctrinaire commitment to the alchemy of democracy promotion; and the same fondness for heaping more unaccountable bureaucratic sprawl atop the already counterproductive agencies and multinational institutions that frustrate the United States at every turn” that are staples of Democratic party dogma, and that were on display in the second Bush term.

Read more at: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/mccain-graham-heart-muslim-brotherhood-andrew-c-mccarthy/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/mccain-graham-heart-muslim-brotherhood-andrew-c-mccarthy/)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 21, 2018, 01:06:31 pm
MBS Says the Saudi Consulate in Turkey Is 'Sovereign Territory.' He's Wrong.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mbs-says-saudi-consulate-turkey-152559781.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/mbs-says-saudi-consulate-turkey-152559781.html)


An overview on the technical aspects of sovereign territory and diplomatic immunity.
Title: Leading U.S. senator blames Saudi prince for Khashoggi death
Post by: TomSea on October 21, 2018, 04:40:31 pm
Quote
Leading U.S. senator blames Saudi prince for Khashoggi death
Doina Chiacu

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A leading Republican U.S. senator said on Sunday he believed Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was responsible for the death of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

“Do I think he did it? Yes, I think he did it,” Senator Bob Corker, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said in an interview with CNN’s “State of the Union.”

Corker said he was waiting for investigations to be completed and hoped that Turkey would share any audio tapes of the killing of Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-dissident-corker/leading-u-s-senator-blames-saudi-prince-for-khashoggi-death-idUSKCN1MV0JX (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-dissident-corker/leading-u-s-senator-blames-saudi-prince-for-khashoggi-death-idUSKCN1MV0JX)
Quote

What’s Missing From the Saudis’ Khashoggi Story
Hassan Hassan

It’s difficult to understand al-Qahtani’s removal as anything other than a soft rebuke to MbS and his heavy-handedness by King Salman, who stepped in some days ago to manage the fallout from Khashoggi’s murder. A Saudi official told me that the king’s orders could perhaps alter the aggressive way that authorities deal with dissidents.

Some will no doubt speculate that the king now plans to introduce radical changes, including to the line of succession. But that extreme scenario is unlikely. MbS will most probably weather the storm, and will remain the kingdom’s de facto head of state—why else would the king have put MbS in charge of a ministerial committee to restructure the top command of the country’s intelligence services?

To deflect blame away from MbS, Saudi officials point out that there is a standing general order that requires authorities to “bring back” Saudi opponents in exile, and argue that the 18 individuals botched it. MbS, according to an official quoted by Reuters, was aware of the standing order but not of the operation.

Read more at: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/whats-missing-from-the-saudis-khashoggi-story/573532/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/whats-missing-from-the-saudis-khashoggi-story/573532/)

Quote
Saudis’ Image Makers: A Troll Army and a Twitter Insider

Each morning, Jamal Khashoggi would check his phone to discover what fresh hell had been unleashed while he was sleeping.

He would see the work of an army of Twitter trolls, ordered to attack him and other influential Saudis who had criticized the kingdom’s leaders. He sometimes took the attacks personally, so friends made a point of calling frequently to check on his mental state.

“The mornings were the worst for him because he would wake up to the equivalent of sustained gunfire online,” said Maggie Mitchell Salem, a friend of Mr. Khashoggi’s for more than 15 years.

Read more at: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/20/us/politics/saudi-image-campaign-twitter.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/20/us/politics/saudi-image-campaign-twitter.html)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 21, 2018, 04:49:30 pm
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu (https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu)

Ragıp Soylu:
Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
18m
Sen. Bob Corker, Senate For. Relations Comm on #Khashoggi :
ʉۢ "We have intercepts from the past that point to involvement at a very high level"
• “MBS was involved in this, he directed this and that this person was purposely murdered"
Via @rgoodlaw


Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
48m48 minutes ago

Saudi FM Jubeir to Fox:

• We don’t know how #Khashoggi was killed where body is
• Saudi leadership wasn’t aware of the op
• Isn’t aware of a tape
• Don’t think 15 Saudis were at the Consulate at the same time
• US lawmakers are sentimental
5 replies 34 retweets 34 likes

Quote
• Saudis: Autopsy expert was there to remove forensic evidence such as fingerprints, not to cut up body (NYT)
• Erdogan: Will reveal all details on Tuesday
 â€¢ Trump: There’s been deception, and lies • MbS to Kushner: “why the outrage?” (WSJ)

See the latest at this twitter account.

Saudis may even be claiming "body was taken out in a rolled up carpet" by a cooperative third party (at the above twitter account and the story the Saudis are putting out now)....so, the police were searching the "Belgrad" forest park but there may not be a lot to this. It's a plot unfolding.

Middle East Eye:

Quote
EXCLUSIVE: Turkey believes MBS bodyguard took Khashoggi body part to Riyadh
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-turkey-believes-mbs-bodyguard-took-khashoggi-bodypart-riyadh-sources-say-850395032 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-turkey-believes-mbs-bodyguard-took-khashoggi-bodypart-riyadh-sources-say-850395032)
Title: Rand Paul: Saudi crown prince is 'gonna have to be replaced' (abbrev.)
Post by: TomSea on October 21, 2018, 04:55:27 pm
Quote
Saudi crown prince is 'gonna have to be replaced' amid 'insulting' explanation for Khashoggi's death, Rand Paul says
By Gregg Re | Fox News

The Saudi government's overnight announcement that Washington Post contributor Jamal Khashoggi died in a fistfight at its consulate in Turkey was "insulting," and provided another reason Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman is "gonna have to be replaced," Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., told "Fox News Sunday."

Authorities in Saudi Arabia said 18 suspects were in custody and intelligence officials had been fired over the episode, weeks after they initially claimed Khashoggi had left their embassy unharmed. Turkish officials have said an "assassination squad" from the Kingdom, including an official from Prince Mohammed's entourage, and an "autopsy expert" flew in ahead of time and laid in wait for Khashoggi at the consulate.

Khashoggi, a prominent journalist and royal court insider for decades in Saudi Arabia, had written columns for The Washington Post critical of Prince Mohammed and the Kingdom's direction while living in self-imposed exile in the U.S. He had advocated for democracy in Saudi Arabia and, in particular, supported Islamist politics.

Continued at: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/saudi-crown-prince-is-gonna-have-to-be-replaced-amid-insulting-explanation-for-khashoggis-death-rand-paul-says (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/saudi-crown-prince-is-gonna-have-to-be-replaced-amid-insulting-explanation-for-khashoggis-death-rand-paul-says)

Often, Paul says things that are his own view. Obviously, he is on the right track. I don't know if our Government will take this position.

   
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 21, 2018, 05:21:14 pm
Not that he has any position in the admin, but he's generally been supportive of Trump.  Yet, Gingrich concurred, this morning on FNS, that the multiple Saudi explanations to date have been 'insultingly stupid.'


https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/887267?section=politics&keywords=saudiarabia-crownprince-mohammedbinsalman&year=2018&month=10&date=21&id=887267&oref=r.search.yahoo.com (https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/887267?section=politics&keywords=saudiarabia-crownprince-mohammedbinsalman&year=2018&month=10&date=21&id=887267&oref=r.search.yahoo.com)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: mountaineer on October 21, 2018, 09:35:25 pm
Sorry, but Jamal Khashoggi doesn't matter that much
by Tom Rogan
 | October 18, 2018 02:45 PM

Jamal Khashoggi was a decent man who suffered an unjust and brutal fate. But he doesn't matter as much as many journalists and politicians are saying.

What happened to Khashoggi isn't that surprising in the context of Middle Eastern politics, or that momentous for U.S. interests. As brutal as it might read, Khashoggi's fate is a reflection of standard-fare regional politics. The Middle East is a region in which power is shaped by the intersection of personal whims, desperate aspirations, venomous ideologies, and the paranoid balance of power interactions. And I'm sorry — considering American interests in the context of Middle Eastern politics, Khashoggi isn't that important.

First, though, one caveat: I respect those who suggest that Khashoggi's fate might require America to reassess its relationship with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, and that because of what he did to Khashoggi, bin Salman has shown himself to be an impossibly unreliable partner. While I don't believe that to be true (I believe the Saudis can be made to learn their lesson), I respect the consideration.

But I don't believe Khashoggi matters that much. I get that some readers will view my words here as callous, arrogant, and even delusional. But I would simply ask them two questions: How did you perceive Saudi Arabia before this happened, and how do you perceive Middle Eastern politics per se?    ...   Washington Examiner (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/sorry-but-jamal-khashoggi-doesnt-matter-that-much)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 21, 2018, 10:18:26 pm
Sorry, but Jamal Khashoggi doesn't matter that much by Tom Rogan


That may very well be, in the big picture.  However, the ridiculous Keystone Cops handling by the Saudis and the amateur hour handling by the admin has created problems and posed legitimate questions.  Between the past business relationships with Trump, the contracts awarded to Broidy, and the financial overtures through Kushner, it opens the parties up to scrutiny.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 22, 2018, 01:06:45 am

That may very well be, in the big picture.  However, the ridiculous Keystone Cops handling by the Saudis and the amateur hour handling by the admin has created problems and posed legitimate questions.  Between the past business relationships with Trump, the contracts awarded to Broidy, and the financial overtures through Kushner, it opens the parties up to scrutiny.

It sure does. Good post....

Also, if no one posted it yet, Trump is now "talking tough" but really, this is only after Graham,  Corker, Rubio, Paul, all have condemnations, some by as much as 2 days.  There is nothing wrong with seeing which way the wind blows.

And once again, the Saudis, if they have to do something like this, send out a hit squad the way some other countries do,  poison him or something.  This was just awfully done by the Saudis.
Title: Footage of Saudi wearing Khashoggi's clothes released by Turkish investigators
Post by: TomSea on October 22, 2018, 02:15:53 pm
Quote
Footage of Saudi wearing Khashoggi's clothes released by Turkish investigators
Images published by CNN show Mustafa al-Madani impersonating the slain journalist, before apparently dumping his clothes in central Istanbul
(https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/styles/main_image_article_page/public/main-images/Untitled_38.png)
Jamal Khashoggi walking into the consulate, left, and Mustafa al-Madani later wearing his clothes, right (Screengrab)
Monday 22 October 2018 11:18 UTC

Videos have emerged of a Saudi suspected of being behind Jamal Khashoggi’s murder walking around Istanbul in the journalist’s clothes shortly after he was last seen.

In footage released by CNN, Mustafa al-Madani, one of 15 Saudis who is believed to have travelled to Istanbul from Riyadh with the intention of killing critic Khashoggi, is seen wearing the journalist’s shirt, trousers, jacket and glasses.

He also appears to be wearing a fake beard and his own shoes.

Read more at: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/footage-saudi-suspect-wearing-khashoggis-clothes-released-turkish-investigators-1829999652 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/footage-saudi-suspect-wearing-khashoggis-clothes-released-turkish-investigators-1829999652)

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 22, 2018, 02:31:52 pm
It looks like Khashoggi went in to the Saudi consulate and got hair restoration.  Has anybody questioned Joe Biden?
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 22, 2018, 03:21:19 pm
Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
#Khashoggi morning updates:

• Imposter leaving the Saudi Consulate broadcasted by CNN
• Saudi diplomatic car found in Istanbul: TRT World
• Heavy Russian presence in Saudi investment con: WSJ
• Trump/Erdogan agreed to clear it up
• Prosecutor questions more witnesses
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1054344665850359809 (https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1054344665850359809)

Russians at the conference, meaning, they won't care too much about human rights.


Quote
Why the Washington Post Fears the Freedom Center
We’re making a difference and the media is trying to stop us.

Daniel Greenfield

 â€œHard-line Republicans and conservative commentators are mounting a dark whisper campaign against Jamal Khashoggi,” the Washington Post nervously warned.

It was the third week of Khashoggimania. And some difficult questions were being asked.

The Washington Post had provided Jamal Khashoggi, a Hamas supporter and an old friend of Osama bin Laden, with column space in which to promote the agenda of the Muslim Brotherhood. It had seized on the pretext of his disappearance and death to fracture the coalition against Iran and advocate regime change in Saudi Arabia. These had also been Khashoggi’s two fundamental Islamist goals.

Continued: https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/271701/why-washington-post-fears-freedom-center-daniel-greenfield (https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/271701/why-washington-post-fears-freedom-center-daniel-greenfield)

Quote
‘Muslim Brotherhood’ is a global threat: US Expert

Efforts continue in Washington D.C. to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization due to its global activities.

Hillel Fradkin, Director of the Center on Islam, Democracy and the Future of the Muslim World at the Hudson Institute emphasized to Al Arabiya English that the Muslim Brotherhood is a global threat, "It is true that it operates on a global basis or as global as it can be. It has branches in various Muslim countries, especially Arab countries, but also other regional countries, and it has organizations that were founded by and directed by its members in other places like France, England, US, and so forth,” he said.

The US expert highlighted that the Brotherhood founder, Egyptian, Hassan al Banna, was aiming to establish his organization outside Egypt as well, not for his personal ambitions, but to implement the agenda of the Brotherhood’s project.

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2018/10/22/Muslim-Brotherhood-is-a-global-threat-US-Expert.html (https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2018/10/22/Muslim-Brotherhood-is-a-global-threat-US-Expert.html)
Title: Car belonging to Saudi consulate found in Istanbul parking lot: NTV
Post by: TomSea on October 22, 2018, 03:38:22 pm
Quote
Car belonging to Saudi consulate found in Istanbul parking lot: NTV

ANKARA (Reuters) - A car belonging to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul has been found in the Sultangazi district of the city, broadcaster NTV and other local media said on Monday, adding that police would search the vehicle.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-khashoggi-car/car-belonging-to-saudi-consulate-found-in-istanbul-parking-lot-ntv-idUSKCN1MW1SX (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-khashoggi-car/car-belonging-to-saudi-consulate-found-in-istanbul-parking-lot-ntv-idUSKCN1MW1SX)

Very sloppy operation, I wonder if they might find something here?
Title: Saudi Foreign Minister Rebukes Rand Paul for Blaming Khashoggi’s Death on MBS: That’s Based on Emoti
Post by: TomSea on October 22, 2018, 03:58:06 pm
Quote
Saudi Foreign Minister Rebukes Rand Paul for Blaming Khashoggi’s Death on MBS: That’s Based on Emotions and Speculation
by Amy Russo | Oct 21st, 2018, 12:30 pm 222

Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir rebuked Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) on Sunday for his assertion that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was culpable in the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, contending that the senator didn’t know much.

“I find it very surprising that somebody 6,000 miles away can be certain about an event that happened 6,000 miles away with no access to information or intelligence,” al-Jubeir told Fox News’ Bret Baeir in an exclusive interview. “So this is a judgment call on the part of Senator Paul. This is not based in fact. It’s just based on emotions and based on speculation.”

Earlier in the day, Paul gave an interview of his own in which he said he was “certain that the crown prince was involved and that he directed this,” arguing that U.S. relations with the leader could not continue and that he must be replaced.

Read more at: https://www.mediaite.com/tv/saudi-foreign-minister-rebukes-rand-paul-for-blaming-khashoggis-death-on-mbs-thats-based-on-emotions-and-speculation/ (https://www.mediaite.com/tv/saudi-foreign-minister-rebukes-rand-paul-for-blaming-khashoggis-death-on-mbs-thats-based-on-emotions-and-speculation/)

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 22, 2018, 04:50:43 pm
MEE has been on top of this story but they certainly, messed up a major story before with their anonymous sources....so, that's a bit of a disclaimer on whether this story is believable or not.

Quote
REVEALED: The Saudi death squad MBS uses to silence dissent
MEE exclusively reveals details about the Tiger Squad, a team of assassins targeting Saudi critics at home and abroad

Jamal Khashoggi fell victim to its assassins. He wasn't the first.

In new revelations, a Saudi source with intimate knowledge of his country's intelligence services told Middle East Eye about a death squad that operates under the guidance and supervision of Mohammed bin Salman, the Saudi crown prince.

The Firqat el-Nemr, or Tiger Squad, is well-known to the US intelligence services. It was formed more than a year ago and is comprised of 50 of the best-skilled intelligence and military operatives in the kingdom.

More at: https://www.middleeasteye.net/tiger-squad-saudi-hitmen-khashoggi-mbs (https://www.middleeasteye.net/tiger-squad-saudi-hitmen-khashoggi-mbs)

Quote
Jamal Khashoggi: The columns he wrote anonymously for Middle East Eye
Khashoggi's death has finally been confirmed by Riyadh. In his memory - and as a tribute to his work - MEE is removing his anonymous byline

See columns at: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jamal-khashoggi-write-for-middle-east-eye-comment-opinion-saudi-arabia-798140829 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jamal-khashoggi-write-for-middle-east-eye-comment-opinion-saudi-arabia-798140829)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 22, 2018, 04:52:49 pm
As to that squad member who reportedly died in a car accident:

Quote
Bostani, 31, was reportedly killed on 18 October in a car accident in Riyadh.

"It's a lie. He was locked in a prison and his food was poisoned," the source said. "Bostani holds the secret of the deputy governor of Asir's killing, as well as Khashoggi's."


https://www.middleeasteye.net/tiger-squad-saudi-hitmen-khashoggi-mbs (https://www.middleeasteye.net/tiger-squad-saudi-hitmen-khashoggi-mbs)

-------
Quote

Should US-Saudi Alliance Be Saved?
| Patrick J. Buchanan
By Patrick J. Buchanan

Over the weekend Donald Trump warned of “severe punishment” if an investigation concludes that a Saudi hit team murdered Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

...

However, which would be a greater violation of human rights: the sanctioned killing of a political enemy of the regime or 10,000 dead Yemenis, including women and children, and millions facing malnutrition and starvation in a Saudi war of aggression being fought with the complicity and cooperation of the United States?

Rather than resist Congress’ proposed sanctions, President Trump might take this opportunity to begin a long withdrawal from decades of entanglement in Mideast wars that have availed us nothing and cost us greatly.

Article: http://buchanan.org/blog/should-us-saudi-alliance-be-saved-130349 (http://buchanan.org/blog/should-us-saudi-alliance-be-saved-130349)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 22, 2018, 11:32:17 pm
Jamal Khashoggi resisted overtures to return to Saudi Arabia for a year

Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi, who was killed after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul earlier this month, met with the Saudi ambassador to the U.S., Prince Khalid bin Salman, at the Saudi Embassy in Washington, D.C. in late 2017 or early 2018, according to a new report.

Sources with knowledge of the meeting, which was confirmed by the Saudi Embassy, said that the Saudi government tried to convince Khashoggi to come back to Saudi Arabia for at least a year. According to NBC News, Prince Khalid, who is the brother of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, and senior Royal Court adviser Saud bin Abdullah Al Qahtani had reached out to Khashoggi attempting to persuade him to return.


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/jamal-khashoggi-resisted-overtures-to-return-to-saudi-arabia-for-a-years (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/jamal-khashoggi-resisted-overtures-to-return-to-saudi-arabia-for-a-years)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 22, 2018, 11:55:42 pm
I heard something about if they make MBS, Mohammed Bin Salman look bad, they might have to be dealing with him on the throne for the next 30-40 years on the throne. They might not want to do that.

Qatari publication al Jazeera:
Quote
Sources tell Reuters audio of Saud al-Qahtani's Skype call in possession of Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

...

Monday, October 22

CIA chief 'travels to Turkey' for Khashoggi case

Gina Haspel, director of the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is heading to Turkey on Monday to work on the probe into Khashoggi's killing,
a source familiar with the matter told Reuters news agency.

...

Report: Saud al-Qahtani 'ran Khashoggi killing via Skype'


...

Report: French judge to probe complaint against MBS over alleged Yemen abuses

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi-case-latest-updates-181010133542286.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi-case-latest-updates-181010133542286.html)

But surely, everything is going against MBS or MbS.

On Rush, when they were talking about this last week, they made reference, that it was sort of like being in the Mafia, once you are in, you are always in... and your loyalties to the organization so to speak... but Khashoggi bucked that trend... he was in the inner most circle, I suppose... and maybe his columns let on to a lot.

A very messy affair...
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 23, 2018, 12:17:35 am
Bezos and bin Salman, he also met the Rock, others.

(http://gulfbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/crown-prince-amazon.jpg)

https://www.middleeasteye.net/The-Rock-Dwayne-Johnson-Mohammed-bin-Salman-Hollywood-Tequila (https://www.middleeasteye.net/The-Rock-Dwayne-Johnson-Mohammed-bin-Salman-Hollywood-Tequila)

Already posted, apparently the big wrestling federation does shows over in Saudi Arabia.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 23, 2018, 12:31:05 am
Chicago Sun Times:

Quote
EDITORIAL: Expel Saudi ambassador till we get the truth in journalist's murder
BySun-Times Editorial Board

We hope every member of Illinois’ congressional delegation will have the courage to back Sen. Dick Durbin.

Durbin called on the Trump administration to formally expel the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. until an independent investigation uncovers the truth about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a Washington Post columnist and Saudi regime critic who was — the Saudis have now been forced to admit — killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

Sending an ambassador packing is a drastic step, particularly when the ambassador is the younger brother of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

Read more at: https://chicago.suntimes.com/opinion/dick-durbin-expel-saudi-ambassador-jamal-khashoggi-murder/
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 23, 2018, 09:11:09 am
Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
5m5 minutes ago

Erdogan was scheduled to appear at 11:45am (Turkey) / 4:45 (EST). A little bit delay always happens

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu (https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu)

Alright, Erdogan has shown up...

Watching to see if we might get the "whole story" here fairly quickly... maybe in the next 2 hours.

Live: http://www.anews.com.tr/webtv/live-broadcast (http://www.anews.com.tr/webtv/live-broadcast)

Okay, the speech is on....Ragip Soylu probably best for updates: https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu (https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu)
Title: Saudi King, Crown Prince receive Khashoggi’s family in Riyadh
Post by: TomSea on October 23, 2018, 03:37:04 pm
For the record, Khashoggi's son is barred from leaving the country:
Quote

Saudi King, Crown Prince receive Khashoggi’s family in Riyadh


(https://vid.alarabiya.net/images/2018/10/23/dd177a1d-c374-4175-8444-c482e1a626b8/dd177a1d-c374-4175-8444-c482e1a626b8_16x9_788x442.png)

Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud received at the Al Yamamah palace in Riyadh Sahl Ahmed Khashoggi and Salah Jamal Khashoggi in the presence of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

The Saudi monarch and crown prince both expressed their deepest condolences to the family and relatives of the late Jamal Khashoggi.

Read more at: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2018/10/23/Saudi-King-Crown-Prince-receive-Khashoggi-s-family-in-Riyadh.html

Also, as of now, the "body parts in the garden" story:
Quote

Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
1h1 hour ago

BREAKING — Istanbul Police denies reports that they had found parts of #Khashoggi body inside Saudi Consul General’s Residence.

Police says the search for the corpse is still ongoing – Turkish TV

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1054738853863526400

To me,  Erdogan's speech did not bring out much of anything new but confirmed some of what we've been told happened. Perhaps the main thing was saying it was a "premeditated murder".
Title: Khashoggi met crown prince's brother in D.C. months before killing - NBC
Post by: TomSea on October 23, 2018, 04:21:22 pm
Quote
Khashoggi met crown prince's brother in D.C. months before killing
Breaking News Emails

WASHINGTON — Months before he was killed in Istanbul, Jamal Khashoggi was invited up to the office of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's brother, Prince Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, for a friendly meeting at the Saudi Embassy in Washington, three people with knowledge of the meeting told NBC News.

Khashoggi, a prominent critic of the Saudi government, was visiting on a routine consular matter, but he was quickly recognized by embassy officials, who immediately called up to Prince Khalid's top-floor office. Soon, word was sent summoning Khashoggi upstairs, and the two spent roughly half an hour together.

...

What exactly Khashoggi and Prince Khalid discussed is not clear. But the meeting came amid a monthslong campaign by the Saudi royal court to lure Khashoggi back to the kingdom — at first peacefully, through cordial encouragement, and then through more forceful means, which culminated in his killing early this month in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul.

Read more at: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/khashoggi-met-crown-prince-s-brother-amid-efforts-return-him-n923031 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/khashoggi-met-crown-prince-s-brother-amid-efforts-return-him-n923031)
Quote
Khashoggi killing a 'political murder': Erdogan
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/khashoggi-killing-planned-turkish-president-erdogan-181023100141253.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/khashoggi-killing-planned-turkish-president-erdogan-181023100141253.html)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 23, 2018, 09:25:31 pm
Mike Pompeo: The US has identified "some of the individuals responsible" for Khashoggi's death


Speaking at the State Department Tuesday afternoon about the death of Jamal Khashoggi, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said the US has identified “at least some of the individuals responsible including those in the intelligence services, the royal court, the foreign ministry and other Saudi ministries.”

On top of revoking visas, Pompeo said the US is also “taking appropriate actions," including potential sanctions. "These penalties will not be the last word on this matter from the United States," he said.

President Trump has been reluctant to criticize Saudi Arabia, insisting several times in the past week that people should give Saudi Arabia the benefit of the doubt. Pompeo, too, stressed the US' "strong partnership" and "shared strategic interests" with Saudi Arabia.

However, Pompeo took a harder line than previous White House statements.

"We are making very clear that the United States does not tolerate this kind of ruthless action to silence Mr. Khashoggi ... Neither the President nor I am happy with this situation," he said.


https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/saudi-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-missing/h_e8fab56065110c0811acdf8877f5b67c (https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/saudi-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-missing/h_e8fab56065110c0811acdf8877f5b67c)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on October 25, 2018, 01:40:23 pm
Changing story again, Saudi Arabia says killing was planned

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Saudi prosecutors say the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi was planned, state-run media reported Thursday, reflecting yet another change in the shifting Saudi Arabian account of what happened to the writer who was killed by Saudi officials in their Istanbul consulate.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/turkish-probe-khashoggi-killing-turns-garden-well-092056828.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/turkish-probe-khashoggi-killing-turns-garden-well-092056828.html)
Title: Jamal Khashoggi's son leaves Saudi Arabia for US
Post by: TomSea on October 25, 2018, 09:09:28 pm
FWIW:

Quote
Jamal Khashoggi's son leaves Saudi Arabia for US
Salah Khashoggi had been under a travel ban imposed on him by the kingdom to pressure his father

The son of murdered Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi has left Saudi Arabia after having originally been prevented from leaving the country by a travel ban.

Salah Khashoggi and his family arrived on Thursday in Washington on a flight from Saudi Arabia, according to two sources close to the family, speaking to Reuters.

Khashoggi, a dual US-Saudi citizen, had his passport restricted by the kingdom earlier in the year.

More: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/son-jamal-khashoggi-leaves-saudi-arabia-report-1805999611 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/son-jamal-khashoggi-leaves-saudi-arabia-report-1805999611)
Quote

Saudi Arabia carried out 'extrajudicial execution' on Khashoggi: UN expert


Agnes Callamard, UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial executions, says perpetrators 'are high enough to represent the state'

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-committed-extrajudicial-execution-khashoggi-un-investigator-2022831457 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-committed-extrajudicial-execution-khashoggi-un-investigator-2022831457)

Sure looks like it.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: bigheadfred on October 26, 2018, 01:51:08 am
This a nothing burger. Times 10.

You aren't reading history.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 27, 2018, 02:02:32 am
Trump invited Khashoggi's fiance to the WH; and apparently, she turned it down.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-invitation-jamal-khashoggi-fiancee_us_5bd3a04ee4b0a8f17ef7b9c8 (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-invitation-jamal-khashoggi-fiancee_us_5bd3a04ee4b0a8f17ef7b9c8)

Turkey seeks extradition of the suspects, asks "where is the body", some inferences have been he could have been beheaded which would be macabre.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jamal-khashoggi-turkey-seeks-extradition-suspects-killing-saudi-arabia/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jamal-khashoggi-turkey-seeks-extradition-suspects-killing-saudi-arabia/)

Title: The Saudis, Khashoggi and Stalin: Why Does One Death Count More Than Thousands?
Post by: TomSea on October 27, 2018, 02:22:20 am
Quote
The Saudis, Khashoggi and Stalin: Why Does One Death Count More Than Thousands?
Khashoggi's murder developed into a grotesque true crime drama. But, like Stalin, the prince allegedly behind it might find ways to turn the horror to his advantage.
Michael Weiss   10.26.18

(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1440,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1540543641/181026-weiss-saudis-khashoggi-stalin-hero_hcw6vs)

Joseph Stalin, who knew a thing or two about murder, is often (albeit controversially) credited with uttering two famous aphorisms on the subject. “The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic,” he said, but then again, “Death solves all problems: no man, no problem.”

Both observations have unfortunate relevance today as we consider the case of the late Jamal Khashoggi. It began with the powerful Saudi crown prince thinking he’d solve a problem by disappearing a critic, was quickly revealed as murder and then perceived as a tragedy. It has since developed into a grotesque true crime drama gripping audiences week after week. But, like Stalin, the prince allegedly behind it might find ways to turn the horror to his advantage.

How is it, many pundits ask, that the savage torture and murder of one Washington Post columnist has called down a torrent of contempt on the House of Saud whereas a long, well-documented history of the latter’s human rights abuses at home and war crimes abroad have not? What about Yemen, and why isn’t that humanitarian catastrophe dominating headlines and 24-hour cable news shows? And how come Americans who’ve spent the last fortnight learning how to correctly pronounce Jamal Khashoggi never learned how to pronounce Raif Badawi, the name of the Saudi blogger who languished in prison for “apostasy” for years before being flogged 1,000 times over the course of twenty weeks in 2015?

Read more at: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-saudis-khashoggi-and-stalin-why-does-one-death-count-more-than-thousands?via=twitter_page (https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-saudis-khashoggi-and-stalin-why-does-one-death-count-more-than-thousands?via=twitter_page)

Maybe some sense to the article and over-dramatization; but somewhat worth knowing still.
Title: ‘PUTIN OF THE DESERT’ The Real Reasons Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman Wanted Khashoggi ‘Dead
Post by: TomSea on October 27, 2018, 02:25:56 am
Quote
‘PUTIN OF THE DESERT’
The Real Reasons Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman Wanted Khashoggi ‘Dead or Alive’
His death is key to understanding the political forces that helped turn the Middle East from a region of hope seven years ago to one of brutal repression and slaughter today.
Christopher Dickey    10.21.18

PARIS — The mind plays strange tricks sometimes, especially after a tragedy. When I sat down to write this story about the Saudi regime’s homicidal obsession with the Muslim Brotherhood, the first person I thought I’d call was Jamal Khashoggi. For more than 20 years I phoned him or met with him, even smoked the occasional water pipe with him, as I looked for a better understanding of his country, its people, its leaders, and the Middle East. We often disagreed, but he almost always gave me fresh insights into the major figures of the region, starting with Osama bin Laden in the 1990s, and the political trends, especially the explosion of hope that was called the Arab Spring in 2011. He would be just the man to talk to about the Saudis and the Muslim Brotherhood, because he knew both sides of that bitter relationship so well.

And then, of course, I realized that Jamal is dead, murdered precisely because he knew too much.

Although the stories keep changing, there is now no doubt that 33-year-old Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the power in front of his decrepit father’s throne, had put out word to his minions that he wanted Khashoggi silenced, and the hit-team allegedly understood that as “wanted dead or alive.” But the [petro]buck stops with MBS, as bin Salman’s called. He’s responsible for a gruesome murder just as Henry II was responsible for the murder of Thomas Becket when he said, “Who will rid me of that meddlesome priest?” In this case, a meddlesome journalist.

Read more at: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-real-reasons-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman-wanted-khashoggi-dead (https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-real-reasons-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman-wanted-khashoggi-dead)
Title: The Saudi Butcher Stole a Page From the Crew That Ran Hell’s Kitchen
Post by: TomSea on October 27, 2018, 02:31:10 am
Actually, a number of decent articles from the Daily Beast, another one.  You know, the Turks were offered rumor has it, a pretty decent bribe to let all this be swept under the rug but they rejected it according to stories.

Quote
The Saudi Butcher Stole a Page From the Crew That Ran Hell’s Kitchen
The Saudis do not seem to have followed the usual Irish-American mob protocol of waiting for the blood to congeal before cutting up the corpse.
Michael Daly  10.23.18
(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1440,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1540262395/181022-daly-eddie-the-butcher-tease_x1jtjq)

When Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman took over the whole Plaza Hotel in March, he seemed to be just another Saudi royal with a sense of entitlement to match his riches.

But upon learning that a gay wedding was scheduled for the Plaza that same weekend, the prince known as MBS agreed to let the ceremony and the ensuing celebration go ahead as planned. He seemed like he might not be just another rich Saudi after all.

Nobody imagined that he would prove to be just another gangster, with a crew that appears to have employed the same method of body disposal as the Irish-American mob that once operated five blocks crosstown from the Plaza.

Back in the 1970s, the Irish-American mob in Hell’s Kitchen included Edward “The Butcher” Cummiskey. .... Read more at: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-saudi-butcher-stole-a-page-from-the-crew-that-ran-hells-kitchen (https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-saudi-butcher-stole-a-page-from-the-crew-that-ran-hells-kitchen)

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: endicom on October 27, 2018, 03:06:28 am

That wasn't just in Hell's Kitchen. A crew in Brooklyn was doing the same. Maybe everyone was doing it.

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 27, 2018, 07:31:55 am
Quote
Bilal Khan Buneri
‏ @BilalKhN8060
19h19 hours ago

These photos are from April 25, 1992 when War Criminal Gulbuddin Hekmatyar known as Butcher of Kabul was planning attacks on innocent people in Kabul. Slain Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi was very close to Hekmatyar and could join him in secret meetings.
#khashoggi

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqbtUA5XgAAvFev.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqbtUVeXQAMwjN4.jpg)

https://twitter.com/BilalKhN8060/status/1055792100791513088 (https://twitter.com/BilalKhN8060/status/1055792100791513088)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulbuddin_Hekmatyar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulbuddin_Hekmatyar)

--------------------


Quote
lachtoday
‏ @lachtodaydotcom
13h13 hours ago

#Khashoggi case joins other disappearances of #Saudi princes
http://www.lachtoday.com/khashoggi-case-joins-other-disappearances/ (http://www.lachtoday.com/khashoggi-case-joins-other-disappearances/) …
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqdBSJtXQAAy-Ox.jpg)
https://twitter.com/lachtodaydotcom/status/1055884496900362241 (https://twitter.com/lachtodaydotcom/status/1055884496900362241)
Quote
http://www.lachtoday.com/khashoggi-case-joins-other-disappearances/ (http://www.lachtoday.com/khashoggi-case-joins-other-disappearances/)
Khashoggi case joins other disappearances of Saudi princes
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 27, 2018, 07:36:17 am
Quote
CROSSOVER EVENT
Saudi Spy Met With Team Trump About Taking Down Iran
Mueller’s investigators examined a series of meetings between an Israeli social media strategist, the general blamed for Jamal Khashoggi’s murder, and Trump adviser Michael Flynn.
Betsy Woodruff,
Erin Banco
10.25.18 1:00 PM ET
(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1440,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1540485690/181025-banco-saudi-spy-tease1_bf3kxe)

Gen. Ahmed al-Assiri, the Saudi intelligence chief taking the fall for the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, hobnobbed in New York with Michael Flynn and other members of the transition team shortly before Trump’s inauguration. The topic of their discussion: regime change in Iran.

Mohammed bin Salman, the powerful Saudi crown prince, dispatched Assiri from Riyadh for the meetings, which took place over the course of two days in early January 2017, according to communications reviewed by The Daily Beast. The January meetings have come under scrutiny by special counsel Robert Mueller’s office as part of his probe into foreign governments’ attempts to gain influence in the Trump campaign and in the White House, an individual familiar with the investigation told The Daily Beast. A spokesperson for Mueller declined to comment.

The New York meetings were attended and brokered by George Nader, a Lebanese-American with close ties to leaders in the United Arab Emirates who is currently cooperating with Mueller’s team. Also present at the meetings was Israeli social media strategist Joel Zamel, who has been questioned by Mueller for his role in pitching top campaign officials on an influence operation to help Trump win the election—overtures that could have broken federal election laws.

Steve Bannon was involved as well in conversations on Iran regime change during those two days in January, according to the communications.

More: https://www.thedailybeast.com/saudi-spy-met-with-team-trump-about-taking-down-iran (https://www.thedailybeast.com/saudi-spy-met-with-team-trump-about-taking-down-iran)

Gen. Ahmed al-Assiri, man on the left in the picture, got fired in the aftermath of this Khashoggi matter. Rather interesting.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 27, 2018, 07:50:25 am
Quote
Saudi Foreign Minister: Kashoggi case suspects will stay in Saudi Arabia
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF
October 27, 2018
https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Saudi-Foreign-Minister-Kashoggi-case-suspects-will-stay-in-Saudi-Arabia-570424?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Saudi-Foreign-Minister-Kashoggi-case-suspects-will-stay-in-Saudi-Arabia-570424?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 28, 2018, 10:29:11 am
Quote
Rand Paul slams Saudi Arabia at Montana rally with Trump Jr.: 'Remember who attacked us on 9/11'
By Louis Casiano | Fox News

U.S. Sen. Rand Paul is intent on blocking a $110 billion arms sale with Saudi Arabia, which he labeled as a sponsor of terrorism during a Montana rally with Donald Trump Jr. on Saturday.

Paul, R-Ky., a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told a crowd in Missoula that the U.S. can no longer look away from Saudi Arabia’s bad behavior. His comments came during an event for Republican U.S. Senate candidate Matt Rosendale, the Hill reported.

“We have to think through this idea that everything is going to be blindly for Saudi Arabia. They’re involved in a war in Yemen where tens of thousands of civilians are dying,” Paul said.

Continue reading at: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-paul-slams-saudi-arabia-at-montana-rally-with-trump-jr-remember-who-attacked-us-on-9-11 (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-paul-slams-saudi-arabia-at-montana-rally-with-trump-jr-remember-who-attacked-us-on-9-11)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 28, 2018, 11:03:33 am
Quote
Why Egypt’s Exiles Are Especially Terrified
They are anxiously watching how the U.S. responds to the Saudis’ killing of Jamal Khashoggi.
By Eli Lake
October 26, 2018

For the last six years, Nancy Okail has led a relatively safe life in exile. As the executive director of the Tahrir Institute for Middle East Policy, she had a high enough profile that she didn’t worry too much about the anonymous threats and harassment directed by the Egyptian regime she fled.

Then Jamal Khashoggi was killed. “I knew Jamal,” she told me in an interview this week. They were both part of a tight circle of Arab dissidents living in and around Washington. If his murder is blamed on anyone other than Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, she said, “then this is a license to kill all of us.”

As Khashoggi was, Okail is a permanent U.S. resident. In 2013 she was tried in absentia in the first major public trial of employees of foreign-funded non-governmental organizations after Egypt’s 2011 revolution. As she was held in a cage before her trial, she recalled, she read “Homage to Catalonia,” George Orwell’s devastating account of the depravities of fascists and communists in the Spanish civil war.

So it’s easy to see why Okail frets. She knows that Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi, like the rest of the world, is watching the U.S. response to Saudi Arabia. If the U.S. punishes Saudi Arabia lightly for the Khashoggi murder, Okail says, El-Sisi and other Arab leaders will see it as permission to go after dissidents living abroad.

Read more at: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-10-26/jamal-khashoggi-killing-egyptian-exiles-watching-with-dread (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-10-26/jamal-khashoggi-killing-egyptian-exiles-watching-with-dread)
Title: Report: Khashoggi killed over plans to expose Saudi chemical attacks (?)
Post by: TomSea on October 28, 2018, 06:06:52 pm
Totally uncorroborated (anonymous source), I believe this looks like a UK journalist reporting this. Looks like the original article was in the "Express", so a so-called "Red Top" but it does not necessarily mean it's false.

Quote
Khashoggi killed over plans to expose Saudi chemical attacks

By Sheetal Sukhija, Big News Network
29th October 2018,
LONDON, U.K. - Over the last few days, a complicated diplomatic conflict has taken hold of a case involving a cold blood murder - in an attempt to shift the focus of the world from the criminal act to a possible punishment for those behind it.

Yet, amid vague proclamations to punish the murderers and bold statements vowing the deliverance of justice - attempts to understand the reasons that sealed the fate of 59-year-old veteran Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi seem to be lost.

On Saturday night, a shocking expose emerged in a report in the Sunday Express, that has possibly reversed the course of a complicated case, that has, over the last month, appeared to be unsolvable.

More: https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/258206796/khashoggi-killed-over-plans-to-expose-saudi-chemical-attacks (https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/258206796/khashoggi-killed-over-plans-to-expose-saudi-chemical-attacks)

Okay, it is in this story, discussion of the use of chemical weapons in Yemen.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1037378/Khashoggi-murder-news-saudi-arabia-chemical-weapons-use (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1037378/Khashoggi-murder-news-saudi-arabia-chemical-weapons-use)
Quote
Khashoggi BOMBSHELL: Britain 'KNEW of kidnap plot and BEGGED Saudi Arabia to abort plans'
Marco Giannangeli, Diplomatic Editor

Intercepts by GCHQ of internal communications by the kingdom’s General Intelligence Directorate revealed orders by a “member of the royal circle” to abduct the troublesome journalist and take him back to Saudi Arabia.

The orders, intelligence sources say, did not emanate directly from de facto ruler Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, and it is not known if he was aware of them.

Though they commanded that Khashoggi should be abducted and taken back to Riyadh, they “left the door open” for other actions should the journalist prove to be troublesome, sources said.

The article talks about "chemical weapons" a few paragraphs down at link. Something to file away, in case, anything comes of this. Just hearsay for now, in turn, it would be a real blockbuster if true.



Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on October 29, 2018, 07:41:55 pm

Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
42m42 minutes ago

White House to make a written statement on #Khashoggi after analysing the information CIA Director Haspel  gathered from Turkey, Spox Sanders says
8 replies 49 retweets 48 likes


Quote
Laura Rozen
‏ @lrozen

Sanders won’t confirm or deny if CIA director Gina Haspel heard alleged audio tape of Khashoggi in Saudi consulate when she was in Turkey

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu

Still an important story... to keep updated with. Unstickied.
Title: EXCLUSIVE: Saudi dissident prince flies home to tackle MBS succession
Post by: TomSea on October 31, 2018, 01:13:52 am
Quote
EXCLUSIVE: Saudi dissident prince flies home to tackle MBS succession
Prince Ahmad bin Abdulaziz returns to Riyadh with UK and US security guarantees and a brief to cut the crown prince down to size
David Hearst
Tuesday 30 October 2018 16:46 UTC
(https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/styles/main_image_article_page/public/main-images/000_Par7357854.jpg)
Prince Ahmad bin Abdulaziz at a press conference in Mecca in 2012. (AFP)
Prince Ahmad bin Abdulaziz, the younger brother of King Salman, has returned to Saudi Arabia after a prolonged absence in London, to mount a challenge to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman or find someone who can.

The septuagenarian prince, an open critic of bin Salman (MBS), has travelled with security guarantees given by US and UK officials.

“He and others in the family have realised that MBS has become toxic,” a Saudi source close to Prince Ahmad told Middle East Eye.

Read more at: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-saudi-dissident-prince-flies-home-tackle-mbs-succession-58983364 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-saudi-dissident-prince-flies-home-tackle-mbs-succession-58983364)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: WarmPotato on October 31, 2018, 04:36:00 am
The Saudis are f^cking crazy
Title: MBS described Khashoggi as 'dangerous Islamist' in call with top US officials: Report
Post by: TomSea on November 01, 2018, 09:25:30 pm
Quote
MBS described Khashoggi as 'dangerous Islamist' in call with top US officials: Report
Jamal Khashoggi's family flatly rejects Saudi crown prince's claim slain journalist was Muslim Brotherhood member, Washington Post reports

Mohammed bin Salman described Jamal Khashoggi as a "dangerous Islamist" in a phone call with top White House officials shortly after the Saudi journalist disappeared, the Washington Post has reported, a claim that Khashoggi’s family has flatly denied.

Citing unidentified sources with knowledge of the discussion, the Post report said the phone call took place between the powerful Saudi crown prince and Jared Kushner, Donald Trump's son-in-law, and the US president's national security adviser, John Bolton, only a few days after Khashoggi disappeared on 2 October.

In the call, bin Salman, also known as MBS, urged Kushner and Bolton to preserve strong US-Saudi ties, the newspaper reported.

Continued: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mbs-khashoggi-islamist-report-1739992155 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mbs-khashoggi-islamist-report-1739992155)

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: edpc on November 01, 2018, 09:37:14 pm
There's no reason for MBS to go there and attempt justification, unless he was involved.  All he had to do was stick to the rogue operation story and plead ignorance.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: bigheadfred on November 02, 2018, 12:54:38 am
There's no reason for MBS to go there and attempt justification, unless he was involved.  All he had to do was stick to the rogue operation story and plead ignorance.

Which Bush are you looking for the bird in?

This thread is for shit.

Any follower (member) of Islam is a target. EVERY ONE. Down to the last suckling pig.

And every apologetic the same.

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on November 02, 2018, 02:23:27 am
You never post here in world news, @bigheadfred

I don't see what your hang up is to speak about this here. It affects a lot of people.

Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on November 02, 2018, 03:32:47 am
Quote
Ragıp Soylu
‏
Verified account
 
@ragipsoylu
Follow Follow @ragipsoylu
More
#Khashoggi update by Washington Post:

• Saudi Attorney General wanted to check Khashoggi’s cell phones, to chase other activists?
• Saudi Crown Prince MbS described Khashoggi as dangerous Islamist in calls to Kushner/Bolton
•Sisi/Netanyahu reached out Trump adm to support MbS

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on November 07, 2018, 04:32:31 am
This is from the desk of state department spox and incoming UN ambassador, Heather Nauert.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrWR2BIWwAA5zG8.jpg:large)

Also, CIA director Gina Haspel went to Turkey, perhaps she is back now. She has seen ALL of the evidence, per a Turkish source.
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on November 07, 2018, 08:40:25 pm
There is this other journalists that some news outlets are publishing stories on. Daily Mail may have had a story, most of the sources like this one, are lesser known.

Quote
Saudi journalist 'traced by Twitter spies' forcibly disappeared

A Saudi journalist who ran a Twitter account critical of the regime was forcibly detained after allegedly being traced by Saudi spies who infiltrated Twitter's regional headquarters.

A Saudi journalist is thought to have been forcibly detained for the past eight months after Saudi spies allegedly infiltrated Twitter's Dubai headquarters and connected him to an account that recorded abuses committed by the royal family.

Turki bin Abdulaziz al-Jasser was forcibly disappeared by Saudi authorities in March, according to various sources including prominent human rights activist Yahya Assiri.

Read more at: https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2018/11/6/journalist-traced-by-saudi-twitter-spies-forcibly-disappeared (https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2018/11/6/journalist-traced-by-saudi-twitter-spies-forcibly-disappeared)
Title: Re: Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates
Post by: TomSea on November 14, 2018, 12:32:47 am
Updates:

Not sure if I believe this from Middle East Eye, MEE:

Quote
Bin Salman 'tried to persuade Netanyahu to go to war in Gaza': Sources
David Hearst

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman attempted to persuade Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to start a conflict with Hamas in Gaza as part of a plan to divert attention from the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, sources inside Saudi Arabia have told Middle East Eye.

A war in Gaza was among a range of measures and scenarios proposed by an emergency task force set up to counter increasingly damaging leaks about Khashoggi's murder coming from Turkish authorities, according to sources with knowledge of the group's activities.

The task force, which is composed of officials from the royal court, the foreign and defence ministries, and the intelligence service, briefs the the crown prince every six hours, MEE was told.

Read more at: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-israel-gaza-khashoggi-1952586885 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-israel-gaza-khashoggi-1952586885)

However, this is being widely reported.

Quote
Audio of Khashoggi murder does not implicate Saudi crown prince: US official
MEE and agencies
3-4 minutes

Bolton says Donald Trump has demanded a full investigation from the Saudis into Khashoggi case (AFP)

Tuesday 13 November 2018 23:34 UTC

Last update:

Wednesday 14 November 2018 0:01 UTC

An audio recording of Jamal Khashoggi's murder inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul does not implicate Saudi Arabia's powerful crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, a top White House adviser said, citing others who have heard the tapes.

John Bolton, a national security adviser and key member of the Donald Trump administration, said that “those who have listened” to the recording also say that the crown prince, commonly referred to as MBS, was not involved.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-says-audio-recording-khashoggi-murder-does-not-implicate-crown-prince-1989179428 (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-says-audio-recording-khashoggi-murder-does-not-implicate-crown-prince-1989179428)

I'm not sure though, what conclusions one could make, as if, while these people did this dastardly deed, they would have mentioned MbS (Mohammed bin Salman).