The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on October 30, 2018, 07:34:40 pm
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By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times - Tuesday, October 30, 2018
House Speaker Paul D. Ryan poured cold water Tuesday on President Trump’s plan to issue an executive order ending birthright citizenship for illegal immigrants, saying “you obviously cannot do that.â€
Mr. Ryan said it is hypocritical for a Republican president to do what the GOP complained about under President Obama in using executive powers to try to rewrite immigration law.
But he also went further and said he sees the constitutional question as settled, guaranteeing citizenship to most people born on U.S. soil even if to illegal immigrant parents.
more
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/30/paul-ryan-shoots-down-trumps-birthright-citizenshi/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/30/paul-ryan-shoots-down-trumps-birthright-citizenshi/)
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This fag Paul Ryan can blow it out his ass......if there is room for that.
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I guess we should be thankful that this WORTHLESS DUD is leaving congress.
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HE is exactly why the House is having problems going into the mid terms. Can't wait till we can say good riddance to this royal jack azz! :seeya:
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HE is exactly why the House is having problems going into the mid terms. Can't wait till we can say good riddance to this royal jack azz! :seeya:
I can't figure out why Ryan felt it necessary to make this comment.
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I can't figure out why Ryan felt it necessary to make this comment.
Because the Republicans have less than Zero intention to allow anyone to get rid of anchor baby citizenship, and because ruling by E.O. is not how you change a Constitutional Amendment that is being wrongly interpreted by current courts and society.
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As if the Republicans aren't going to fight with all means at their disposal. You know damn well the Democrats aren't worried about being hypocrites.
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Because the Republicans have less than Zero intention to allow anyone to get rid of anchor baby citizenship, and because ruling by E.O. is not how you change a Constitutional Amendment that is being wrongly interpreted by current courts and society.
Yeah, the EO would be immediately undone by the next left president.
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Mr. Ryan said it is hypocritical for a Republican president to do what the GOP complained about under President Obama in using executive powers to try to rewrite immigration law.
I agree with that, and would prefer that Congress act. But the text of the 14th amendment clearly provides for a limitation, and given reality that it would appear to be lawful for either Congress or the President to enact its interpretation of which children are "born subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" and which are not, with the SCOTUS acting as the ultimate arbiter.
Will a Constitutional amendment be necessary, as Ryan implies? Not necessarily - just as the Court was able, ultimately, to find an individual RKBA in the Second Amendment by means of interpreting the meaning and import of the predicate clause, so could the Court (or the President, or Congress with the ultimate imprimatur of the Court) so interpret the 14th Amendment.
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Amendment XIV, Section 1
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
The Constitution cannot be amended by a Presidential Executive Order. Ryan is correct
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Amendment XIV, Section 1
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
The Constitution cannot be amended by a Presidential Executive Order. Ryan is correct
Ryan probably is. Empty suits such as himself would've had to/will have to deal with the matter Constitutionally. But since Ryan sat on his ass for years (his tenure amounted to virtually nothing) Trump is bringing the issue front and center by the only means available.
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By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times - Tuesday, October 30, 2018
House Speaker Paul D. Ryan poured cold water Tuesday on President Trump’s plan to issue an executive order ending birthright citizenship for illegal immigrants, saying “you obviously cannot do that.â€
Mr. Ryan said it is hypocritical for a Republican president to do what the GOP complained about under President Obama in using executive powers to try to rewrite immigration law.
But he also went further and said he sees the constitutional question as settled, guaranteeing citizenship to most people born on U.S. soil even if to illegal immigrant parents.
more
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/30/paul-ryan-shoots-down-trumps-birthright-citizenshi/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/30/paul-ryan-shoots-down-trumps-birthright-citizenshi/)
There's a big/huge difference between Obama's EOs (trying to destroy America) and Trump's EO re: immigration (trying to SAVE America). That Ryan apparently is unable to discern the vast difference strikes me as rather hypocritical, if not completely asinine. Bub bye, Paul. Don't let that DC door hit ya......(you know the rest).
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Because the Republicans have less than Zero intention to allow anyone to get rid of anchor baby citizenship, and because ruling by E.O. is not how you change a Constitutional Amendment that is being wrongly interpreted by current courts and society.
Trump doesn't have the authority to change a Constitutional amendment.
He made the comment because his political career is over and he's waving the middle finger to all those who were foolish enough to continue to keep voting for him.
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I agree with that, and would prefer that Congress act. But the text of the 14th amendment clearly provides for a limitation, and given reality that it would appear to be lawful for either Congress or the President to enact its interpretation of which children are "born subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" and which are not, with the SCOTUS acting as the ultimate arbiter.
@Jazzhead Isn't anyone born in the US subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?
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@Jazzhead Isn't anyone born in the US subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?
The political jurisdiction or the territorial jurisdiction?
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@Jazzhead Isn't anyone born in the US subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?
If a vacationer encounters trouble in America their embassy acts as their representative.
An illegal alien isn't even here, officially.
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"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
That does not seem very ambiguous to me. If the POTUS can get under this 14th constitutional amendment with an EO what is to keep some future president from undoing the 2nd amendment?
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Amendment XIV, Section 1
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
The Constitution cannot be amended by a Presidential Executive Order. Ryan is correct
The Constitution cannot be amended by a Presidential Executive Order. But neither can it be amended by a mere act of Congress.
But amendment isn't the issue. The reasonable interpretation and construction of its plain language is. I don't see why it cannot be reasonably interpreted and construed by means of a executive order. I agree with Ryan that the Congress should not be ceding its responsibilities to the President - we all know how much we complained about Obama and his EOs. But the point is to construe "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" and force the SCOTUS to ultimately decide whether that construction is correct. Just as the SCOTUS did when it construed the Second Amendment to include an individual RKBA. There was no amendment of the 2A - just construction.
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@Jazzhead Isn't anyone born in the US subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?
What in your view is the meaning of the limitation? In construing a Constitutional provision, one should try to give all of its language meaning. (For years, the 2A's predicate clause vexed Constitutional scholars.) If anyone born here is a citizen, there would be no need for the limitation "born . . . subject to the jurisdiction of the United States". So what in your mind is an example of an individual born here who wouldn't be a citizen by reason of the limitation?
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"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
That does not seem very ambiguous to me. If the POTUS can get under this 14th constitutional amendment with an EO what is to keep some future president from undoing the 2nd amendment?
Nothing except the fact that the 2A's individual right has been explicitly confirmed by the SCOTUS. I agree with you that the 2A's individual right is on shaky ground - a different SCOTUS majority, unbound by stare decisis, could easily take the right away by pointing to the predicate clause.
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The Constitution cannot be amended by a Presidential Executive Order. But neither can it be amended by a mere act of Congress.
@Jazzhead Yeah. I remember when Congress gave the President line item veto power and SCOTUS threw it out.
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This article says things a little out of context. Ryan is correct that the President CANNOT issue an executive order and amend the Constitution. Definitely, not a fan of Ryan but the statement he made is correct:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/paul-ryan-you-cannot-end-birthright-citizenship-with-an-executive-order-2018-10-30 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/paul-ryan-you-cannot-end-birthright-citizenship-with-an-executive-order-2018-10-30)
Trump may have the best intentions and want to end birthright citizenship, but he doesn't have the authority to do so. Only Congress can change a constitutional amendment....or calling a Convention of States. Unfortunately, IMHO now is not the time to call for a Convention of States ... not when the GOP majority is up in the air.
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Whien the Constitution was amended to change former slaves, into citizens I do NOT believe it was contemplated that eventually hordes would enter across our borders, walking, driving and recently by flying.
*There are hotels, apartments in SoCal that service entries from Asia, coming for the explicit purpose of housing pregant women, until the child (American citizen) is born.
By what ever method, kit DOES need a solution.
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So when is this guy going to finally leave and get that lobbying gig?
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I can't figure out why Ryan felt it necessary to make this comment.
@Emjay
I can. He is trolling for a desk and a fat multi-year contract at CBS,ABC,or NBC.
Think "Joe Scarborough".
Nothing new about this. Whores have been doing this since the dawn of time.
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What in your view is the meaning of the limitation? In construing a Constitutional provision, one should try to give all of its language meaning. (For years, the 2A's predicate clause vexed Constitutional scholars.) If anyone born here is a citizen, there would be no need for the limitation "born . . . subject to the jurisdiction of the United States". So what in your mind is an example of an individual born here who wouldn't be a citizen by reason of the limitation?
@Jazzhead I don't know.
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I can't figure out why Ryan felt it necessary to make this comment.
@Emjay Because he believes it to be true?
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Nothing except the fact that the 2A's individual right has been explicitly confirmed by the SCOTUS. I agree with you that the 2A's individual right is on shaky ground - a different SCOTUS majority, unbound by stare decisis, could easily take the right away by pointing to the predicate clause.
Cruz also questions Trump's authority.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018-elections/2018/10/30/ted-cruz-said-supports-ending-birthright-citizenship-open-question (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018-elections/2018/10/30/ted-cruz-said-supports-ending-birthright-citizenship-open-question)
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@Jazzhead Isn't anyone born in the US subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?
No.
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What in your view is the meaning of the limitation? In construing a Constitutional provision, one should try to give all of its language meaning. (For years, the 2A's predicate clause vexed Constitutional scholars.) If anyone born here is a citizen, there would be no need for the limitation "born . . . subject to the jurisdiction of the United States". So what in your mind is an example of an individual born here who wouldn't be a citizen by reason of the limitation?
A child born to a foreign ambassador.
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Cruz also questions Trump's authority.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018-elections/2018/10/30/ted-cruz-said-supports-ending-birthright-citizenship-open-question (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018-elections/2018/10/30/ted-cruz-said-supports-ending-birthright-citizenship-open-question)
Well, sorta:
UVALDE — Sen. Ted Cruz, who is in a heated race for re-election against Democrat Beto O'Rourke, said he supports ending birthright citizenship for children born in the country to unauthorized immigrants but it is an "open question" how the government should do that.
"I have long supported ending birthright citizenship," Cruz said following a campaign rally in Uvalde.
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Cruz also questions Trump's authority.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018-elections/2018/10/30/ted-cruz-said-supports-ending-birthright-citizenship-open-question (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018-elections/2018/10/30/ted-cruz-said-supports-ending-birthright-citizenship-open-question)
It doesn't seem to me that Cruz is questioning Trump's Authority. It only appears that he is reserving comment until he has time to review the wording of the EO.
"I would need to examine the legal arguments behind an executive order, and I haven't seen those yet," Cruz said.
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Howard ... also served on the Joint Committee on Reconstruction, which drafted the Fourteenth Amendment.
During the debate over the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, he argued for including the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof:"
[The 14th amendment] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_M._Howard
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Well, sorta:
Uvalde? Is that in Toronto?
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Uvalde? Is that in Toronto?
You betcha. Snow and ice everywhere. And, they talk funny.
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You betcha. Snow and ice everywhere. And, they talk funny.
No wonder Ted was there.
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No wonder Ted was there.
*****rollingeyes*****
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Title:
"Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans"
Paul Ryan is gonna be a has-been nobody on January 1, 2019.
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Good grief, people. Forget the citizenship part. You want illegals to stop crossing the border?
Then STOP GIVING THEM FREE SHIT WHEN THEY GET HERE !!!!!
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And the boy in the Speaker's suit just can't leave that position as fast as I would like him to.
A worthless idiot.
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Good grief, people. Forget the citizenship part. You want illegals to stop crossing the border?
Then STOP GIVING THEM FREE SHIT WHEN THEY GET HERE !!!!!
Better yet, build a wall and posts signs that read "Anyone Crossing Into the U.S. Illegally WILL be Considered an Enemy of the U.S. and risk being fired upon.
Secondly, declare a moratorium on ANY immigration into the U.S., including asylum for a period of at least 5 years allowing the U.S. time to revamp our immigration laws and policies and to find a way to start deporting illegals already here.
Agreed; illegals should have NO rights in this country and be ENTITLED to nothing other than a free ride back across the border!
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There's a big/huge difference between Obama's EOs (trying to destroy America) and Trump's EO re: immigration (trying to SAVE America). That Ryan apparently is unable to discern the vast difference strikes me as rather hypocritical, if not completely asinine. Bub bye, Paul. Don't let that DC door hit ya......(you know the rest).
So it is the ends that matter and not the means...
That's what the left has been saying and doing for a long time.
That philosophy only leaves destruction in its wake. Those with the most power do whatever they like because their ends are always justified by any means...
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Who was it that campaigned for Ryan to lead the house back in late 2016?
That was some swamp draining...
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Who was it that campaigned for Ryan to lead the house back in late 2016?
Probably the same guy who saved McConnell from getting primaried in 2014.
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[The 14th amendment] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_M._Howard
If they have broken the law to be here they aren't really here. Not legally. How can they be subject to jurisdiction? They are subject to the jurisdiction of their lawful country.
Instead of rushing them into a cushy hospital room to pop their baby out they should be sent to prison for delivery. And we pay for those births too.
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Better yet, build a wall and posts signs that read "Anyone Crossing Into the U.S. Illegally WILL be Considered an Enemy of the U.S. and risk being fired upon.
You would have to forcibly deal with the left before that kind of hard line approach would ever happen. I happen to agree with you. A few hard examples would fix things real quick.
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They were making the right decisions on this birthright citizenship and then, the issue entered uncharted territory with some decisions that are complex to describe.
But I will say, Ryan has his view, I'm sure, Trump cleared this with his own advisors as well.
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I'm sure, Trump cleared this with his own advisors as well.
Sure he did....like when he promised a middle class tax cut before November, even though Congress wasn’t in session.
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Paul Ryan is running away and quitting Congress soon - who cares what he says?
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I guess we should be thankful that this WORTHLESS DUD is leaving congress.
Good for Ryan. Who wants to be House minority leader during Armageddon? Thanx for the tax cut Paul.
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Good for Ryan. Who wants to be House minority leader during Armageddon? Thanx for the tax cut Paul.
And, a cheery good morning to you too, @Once-Ler. The sun is shining, it's cool, and life is good. Have a nice day.
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Good for Ryan. Who wants to be House minority leader during Armageddon? Thanx for the tax cut Paul.
The WSJ says this morning that consumer confidence is at an 18-year high! More jobs are being created than there are willing citizens to fill them. And wage growth - finally! - has arrived.
So, yes, thanks for the tax cut, Paul. Too bad the GOP has been unable to make hay over this good news because of the noise from Hurricane Donald.
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Good for Ryan. Who wants to be House minority leader during Armageddon? Thanx for the tax cut Paul.
He apparently didn't want to be majority leader, either.
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At least, the issue is on the table. It's a dumb law to be in affect. It's been mentioned before, maybe now, something can be done about it.
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Recent GOP Speakers:
"Denny" Hastert, convicted pervert.
John Boehner, now "monetizing" his Speaker tenure, by lobbying for the huge new Marijuana Industry.
So Ryan doesn't have too high of a bar to get over.
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Good for Ryan. Who wants to be House minority leader during Armageddon? Thanx for the tax cut Paul.
Save your thanks (especially if you’re a business owner) until December, when we see what necessary technical corrections are made. They rushed it through and the errors will require Dem cooperation to fix them. That’s going to be interesting.
https://nypost.com/2018/02/24/gops-tax-reform-law-is-full-of-typos-errors-experts/
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/390747-retailers-restaurants-press-congress-for-fixes-to-gop-tax-law
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/396780-ryan-expects-bill-on-tax-fixes-to-come-out-at-the-end-of-the-year
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I don't give a crap what this self-selected lame duck thinks. After 1/1, I can add his opinion to a buck and buy a cup of coffee.
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Save your thanks (especially if you’re a business owner) until December, when we see what necessary technical corrections are made. They rushed it through and the errors will require Dem cooperation to fix them. That’s going to be interesting.
https://nypost.com/2018/02/24/gops-tax-reform-law-is-full-of-typos-errors-experts/
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/390747-retailers-restaurants-press-congress-for-fixes-to-gop-tax-law
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/396780-ryan-expects-bill-on-tax-fixes-to-come-out-at-the-end-of-the-year
Hey, maybe this was what Trump was talking about when he said there would be more tax cuts in the coming weeks.
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Hey, maybe this was what Trump was talking about when he said there would be more tax cuts in the coming weeks.
Now I'm confused - whom do we thank for the tax cut?
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Now I'm confused - whom do we thank for the tax cut?
Ourselves, for helping to keep the Hildabest from being Preezy of the United Steezy.
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Ourselves, for helping to keep the Hildabest from being Preezy of the United Steezy.
That will not be a problem.
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Most of you know that I am no Trump cheerleader, nor am I an NT (since Nov 2016, anyway), but this is a good move, and he wins politically, no matter the outcome.
(1) Issues the EO, where the Supreme court has to look at the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" for the first time since 1898, and may agree that this does not aplly to people who enter here illegally.
(2) Issues the EO, SCOTUS may say Trump cannot do this, not rule other than that, but may say congress can by statute, which still gives Trump a political victory, and moves the ball into Congress's court.
(3) Decides not to issue the EO, but uses the bully pulpit to rally people to contact members of congress to take action, again another political victory.
(4) SCOTUS may rule that this needs an amendment to over turn, which would be difficult, if not impossible to get, but cost Trump no political Capital for trying.
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Recent GOP Speakers:
"Denny" Hastert, convicted pervert.
John Boehner, now "monetizing" his Speaker tenure, by lobbying for the huge new Marijuana Industry.
So Ryan doesn't have too high of a bar to get over.
throw in Democrat Pelosi and the bar can be crossed by a snake
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Most of you know that I am no Trump cheerleader, nor am I an NT (since Nov 2016, anyway), but this is a good move, and he wins politically, no matter the outcome.
(1) Issues the EO, where the Supreme court has to look at the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" for the first time since 1898, and may agree that this does not aplly to people who enter here illegally.
(2) Issues the EO, SCOTUS may say Trump cannot do this, not rule other than that, but may say congress can by statute, which still gives Trump a political victory, and moves the ball into Congress's court.
(3) Decides not to issue the EO, but uses the bully pulpit to rally people to contact members of congress to take action, again another political victory.
(4) SCOTUS may rule that this needs an amendment to over turn, which would be difficult, if not impossible to get, but cost Trump no political Capital for trying.
:thumbsup:
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Most of you know that I am no Trump cheerleader, nor am I an NT (since Nov 2016, anyway), but this is a good move, and he wins politically, no matter the outcome.
(1) Issues the EO, where the Supreme court has to look at the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" for the first time since 1898, and may agree that this does not aplly to people who enter here illegally.
(2) Issues the EO, SCOTUS may say Trump cannot do this, not rule other than that, but may say congress can by statute, which still gives Trump a political victory, and moves the ball into Congress's court.
(3) Decides not to issue the EO, but uses the bully pulpit to rally people to contact members of congress to take action, again another political victory.
(4) SCOTUS may rule that this needs an amendment to over turn, which would be difficult, if not impossible to get, but cost Trump no political Capital for trying.
I think he'll issue an e.o. and of course will be challenged. It is time for SCOTUS to rule on this and it is their job to interpret the constitution. It will be interesting to see how Gorsuch and Kavanaugh will rule and why.
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:thumbsup:
Levin is talking about this now. He makes an interesting point - the current policy is so antithetical to the intent of the 14th amendment and subsequent rulings that Trump may well be within his right to reinstitue the policy as ruled upon.
At least that’s what it sounds like he’s saying.
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Trump backs off executive order threat, says Congress is better path to end birthright citizenship
President Trump said Wednesday he’s still committed to ending birthright citizenship for babies born to illegal immigrants, but would prefer to go through Congress rather than use an executive order...
“I’d rather do it through Congress because that’s permanent. But we can certainly do it through … executive order,†he said.
Read the whole thing. (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/31/trump-congress-path-end-birthright-citizenship/)
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This issue could go either way if it goes to the SCOTUS. They simply could rule as to whether or not Pres. Trump is within his authority to issue and e.o. They may not rule on the subject of birthright citizenship, but only on constitutionality of Trump's e.o. If that's the case, IMHO it will likely not go his way as it seems he is issuing an e.o. to amend the Constitution.
There is a simple though temporary way around this; declare an indefinite moratorium on ANY immigration to this country; including asylum. Nothing really he can do about those already born here, but he can keep illegals from coming in and then giving birth.
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https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trump-is-right-ending-birthright-citizenship-is-constitutional (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trump-is-right-ending-birthright-citizenship-is-constitutional)
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This issue could go either way if it goes to the SCOTUS. They simply could rule as to whether or not Pres. Trump is within his authority to issue and e.o. They may not rule on the subject of birthright citizenship, but only on constitutionality of Trump's e.o. If that's the case, IMHO it will likely not go his way as it seems he is issuing an e.o. to amend the Constitution.
There is a simple though temporary way around this; declare an indefinite moratorium on ANY immigration to this country; including asylum. Nothing really he can do about those already born here, but he can keep illegals from coming in and then giving birth.
Illegals coming here to give birth is a problem, but it's a very small problem. The destruction to our booming economy, if employers can't get the workers they need, is a very big problem.
We need more legal immigration, not less. That doesn't mean we shouldn't enforce the law with respect to those who cross the border illegally, but our low birthrate basically compels that we permit our workforce to be supplemented by folks from other nations. Already, farmers and local businessmen are feeling the dilemma of crops lost and business opportunities blown because there are not enough willing workers.
Your foolish proposal to address birthright citizenship by banning all immigration is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Levin is talking about this now. He makes an interesting point - the current policy is so antithetical to the intent of the 14th amendment and subsequent rulings that Trump may well be within his right to reinstitue the policy as ruled upon.
At least that’s what it sounds like he’s saying.
It will be interesting to see the text of the EO. The threshold problem with any EO with respect to the 14A is that it is Congress that, under its terms, has the power "to enforce by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article". And Congress has occasionally done that, such as its law that allowed John McCain (born in the Canal Zone) to be a birthright citizen.
Perhaps the EO will simply instruct the executive branch to recognize birthright citizenship only to the extent that Congress, or the Courts, have heretofore mandated it. There is no court decision that mandates the child of an undocumented immigrant be a citizen. The Wong Kim Ark case is indeed pivotal, and establishes the proposition the jus soli indeed applies to the children of non-citizens, but that case involved the child of parents legally resident here:
Nothing is better settled at the common law than the doctrine that the children, even of aliens, born in a country while the parents are resident there under the protection of the government and owing a temporary allegiance thereto, are subjects by birth.
But in the case of an undocumented illegal, there is no mutuality of allegiance - neither the federal government nor the sojourner acknowledges her presence here.
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Levin is talking about this now. He makes an interesting point - the current policy is so antithetical to the intent of the 14th amendment and subsequent rulings that Trump may well be within his right to reinstitue the policy as ruled upon.
At least that’s what it sounds like he’s saying.
The intent of the 14th was to give citizenship to former slaves. Not generations of anchor babies.
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We need more legal immigration, not less.
WRONG.
We need only those who want to immigrate to the US and BECOME American.
We DO NOT WANT millions more third world squatters who simply enclave here without learning English to suck at the teat of welfare so they can send money they earn here back to their homeland.
ASSIMILATION - NOT Immigration.
Close the borders for the next decade or so, and let's work on those tens of millions of illiterate foreigners that have flooded us in the last several decades before we give thought to opening the border to anyone else.
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The intent of the 14th was to give citizenship to former slaves. Not generations of anchor babies.
Not so.
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:pondering:
Whether one agrees with the President on this or not, he certainly did open the door for discussion of the "birthright citizenship" issue. Many of us have been howling in the wilderness about this, and now people are waking up to what we've been saying for years.
I hope he pulls this off, one way or another.
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It will be interesting to see the text of the EO. The threshold problem with any EO with respect to the 14A is that it is Congress that, under its terms, has the power "to enforce by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article". And Congress has occasionally done that, such as its law that allowed John McCain (born in the Canal Zone) to be a birthright citizen.
Perhaps the EO will simply instruct the executive branch to recognize birthright citizenship only to the extent that Congress, or the Courts, have heretofore mandated it. There is no court decision that mandates the child of an undocumented immigrant be a citizen. The Wong Kim Ark case is indeed pivotal, and establishes the proposition the jus soli indeed applies to the children of non-citizens, but that case involved the child of parents legally resident here:
But in the case of an undocumented illegal, there is no mutuality of allegiance - neither the federal government nor the sojourner acknowledges her presence here.
Mutuality of allegiance, whatever that might mean, is not a requirement.
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We DO NOT WANT millions more third world squatters
We're talking past each other. This isn't about illegal immigration. It is about immigration of the legal variety - absolutely essential to our prosperity. Immigrants have, since the birth of the Republic, come here for work and opportunity, not to squat. My grandparents were all immigrants. Perhaps yours were too.
I know exactly why you oppose "third world" immigration. And it hasn't a damn thing to do with either patriotism, or Christian compassion.
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This isn't about illegal immigration. It is about immigration of the legal variety - absolutely essential to our prosperity.
Liberal Horseshit. Our borders were essentially closed to all but selected nations that were seen to be a benefit to society and not a drag on it and all immigration was severely restricted via visa quotas from 1920 until 1964.
Immigrants have, since the birth of the Republic, come here for work and opportunity, not to squat. My grandparents were all immigrants. Perhaps yours were too.
They came to work and BECOME Americans. That does not exist today. Immigration to a welfare state is NOT essential to our prosperity. It is our modern version of having Barbarians and Visigoths permitted into our borders to outbreed citizens so as to sack and plunder from within.
I know exactly why you oppose "third world" immigration. And it hasn't a damn thing to do with either patriotism, or Christian compassion.
You don't know shit.
You go live in the dirt of a third world cesspool like I did, and try and tell me you want that living next door to you on your subsidy.
Unlike you, I bring compassion to THEM with my own time and money, not force my neighbors here to pay for it and subsidize it so you can feel good about yourself.
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Liberal Horseshit. Our borders were essentially closed to all but selected nations that were seen to be a benefit to society and not a drag on it and all immigration was severely restricted via visa quotas from 1920 until 1964.
They came to work and BECOME Americans. That does not exist today. Immigration to a welfare state is NOT essential to our prosperity. It is our modern version of having Barbarians and Visigoths permitted into our borders to outbreed citizens so as to sack and plunder from within.
You don't know shit.
You go live in the dirt of a third world cesspool like I did, and try and tell me you want that living next door to you on your subsidy.
Unlike you, I bring compassion to THEM with my own time and money, not force my neighbors here to pay for it and subsidize it so you can feel good about yourself.
Your naked racism comes shining through. You want immigration by whites only, the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us. Be honest and admit it.
Simply disgusting. You make a mockery of your Christian faith with your palpable contempt for folks who want to escape the "cesspools" - little different than Ireland and Sweden in the 19th century - and seek the same opportunities that your and my ancestors did.
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Mutuality of allegiance, whatever that might mean, is not a requirement.
Is that statement based on your reading of Wong Kim Ark, or something else, @Oceander ? How can an illegal be said to be "resident [in the United States] under the protection of the government and owing a temporary allegiance thereto" if neither the illegal nor the federal government acknowledges her presence here?
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Your naked racism comes shining through. You want immigration by whites only, the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us. Be honest and admit it.
Oh yes, I'm a "naked racist":
(https://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/footwash.jpg)
You should just shut the hell up with your liberal Claptrap, because no one here is buying your garbage.
Simply disgusting. You make a mockery of your Christian faith with your palpable contempt for folks who want to escape the "cesspools" - little different than Ireland and Sweden in the 19th century - and seek the same opportunities that your and my ancestors did.
What is morbidly disgusting is people like you who truly engage in virtue signaling to pump liberal/Socialist/diversity-is-our-strength bullshit without any advocacy of and mention of ASSIMILATION into an American culture. Instead, people like you do the opposite and shit all over any talk of assimilation because - well, you just said it - we're a 'naked racist country'.
So Socialist morons and imbeciles can continue to push for open borders to a welfare state - and call it "legal". All you want is for them to get a ticket and a lifetime meal ticket voucher to come pouring in so you can flout your 'compassion' by using our money to sate your perverted set of morals.
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:pondering:
Whether one agrees with the President on this or not, he certainly did open the door for discussion of the "birthright citizenship" issue. Many of us have been howling in the wilderness about this, and now people are waking up to what we've been saying for years.
I hope he pulls this off, one way or another.
@Cyber Liberty
As a fellow wilderness howler, so do I! And so does John Eastman.
https://nypost.com/2018/10/30/revoking-birthright-citizenship-would-enforce-the-constitution/
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I know exactly why you oppose "third world" immigration. And it hasn't a damn thing to do with either patriotism, or Christian compassion.
This has everything to do with American sovereignty, defined by us, not the UN.
It also has to do with finally implementing a merit-based system of LEGAL immigration. How many doctors, attorneys, scientists, technicians are marching in these caravans? Hell, how many graduated high school or won't be on public assistance?
How many are carrying diseases that we won't detect and infect the American citizenry? How many will overload our already stressed health care system? Why should hardworking, tax paying American patriots put up with this?
So, spare me the judgement @Jazzhead These caravans are not migrants desperate to be American citizens, they hold no love for or commitment to the United States--they're militants hell bent on getting what they want because they want it .... and will do so any way they can.
In many way they're actually more like global locusts. Someone should warn Canada because when they've bled the US dry, they're next.
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Your naked racism comes shining through. You want immigration by whites only, the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us. Be honest and admit it.
Simply disgusting. You make a mockery of your Christian faith with your palpable contempt for folks who want to escape the "cesspools" - little different than Ireland and Sweden in the 19th century - and seek the same opportunities that your and my ancestors did.
Does using the word racism somehow validate your opposition to enforced border laws? What Invar said is absolutely true. There is nothing racist about it. If you want immigration it has to be legal and for the benefit of the country and its citizens. There is no more need for low income labor. Plenty here already. Has nothing to do with color of skin.
What is happening is not good for the country. It is only good for the people that benefit from cheap labor. If it was your job you wouldn't be using the racist card. That racist card.....so convenient. And these people do not come and take care of themselves. They rely on social benefits that our legal citizens have to pay for. I don't care whether they are black, brown, yellow or white. They need to come into this country legally and according to real need.
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Your naked racism comes shining through. You want immigration by whites only, the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us. Be honest and admit it.
Simply disgusting. You make a mockery of your Christian faith with your palpable contempt for folks who want to escape the "cesspools" - little different than Ireland and Sweden in the 19th century - and seek the same opportunities that your and my ancestors did.
You're an immigration attorney, aren't you?
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Not so.
got anything go back that up or is this just another opinion by you?
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What is morbidly disgusting is people like you who truly engage in virtue signaling to pump liberal/Socialist/diversity-is-our-strength bullshit without any advocacy of and mention of ASSIMILATION into an American culture. Instead, people like you do the opposite and shit all over any talk of assimilation because - well, you just said it - we're a 'naked racist country'.
So Socialist morons and imbeciles can continue to push for open borders to a welfare state - and call it "legal". All you want is for them to get a ticket and a lifetime meal ticket voucher to come pouring in so you can flout your 'compassion' by using our money to sate your perverted set of morals.
All straw men. Like all conservatives, I reject identity politics and the notion that American is not a melting pot where assimilation is the norm. I support immigration of the legal variety, to allow this nation's economic and cultural progress to continue. And I do not support open borders - to the contrary, I support both the President's commitment to protect the border and limit the reach of birthright citizenship.
As for you and your self-serving photograph of your doughy little white hands, your "mercy" is tempered by your abject contempt - expressed frequently on this board - for the folks you "ministered" to. If India's a cesspool, why are we getting a lot of our top tech talent from there? Why not show some real compassion? Jobs and opportunity are what folks everywhere want and need, not some silly man washing their feet.
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Does using the word racism somehow validate your opposition to enforced border laws? What Invar said is absolutely true. There is nothing racist about it. If you want immigration it has to be legal and for the benefit of the country and its citizens. There is no more need for low income labor. Plenty here already. Has nothing to do with color of skin.
What is happening is not good for the country. It is only good for the people that benefit from cheap labor. If it was your job you wouldn't be using the racist card. That racist card.....so convenient. And these people do not come and take care of themselves. They rely on social benefits that our legal citizens have to pay for. I don't care whether they are black, brown, yellow or white. They need to come into this country legally and according to real need.
Proponents of open borders have always used the race card and will continue to use the race card as society continues to crumble around their ears. Its an easy alternative to debating.
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As for you and your self-serving photograph of your doughy little white hands, your "mercy" is tempered by your abject contempt - expressed frequently on this board - for the folks you "ministered" to. If India's a cesspool, why are we getting a lot of our top tech talent from there? Why not show some real compassion? Jobs and opportunity are what folks everywhere want and need, not some silly man washing their feet.
Doughy white hands eh? No, nothing racially derogatory there.
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So, spare me the judgement @Jazzhead
Oh, just can it @Right_in_Virginia Your lips are so puckered you don't know who your allies are. I've been defending the President's vow to protect the border and limit the reach of birthright citizenship. But I'm not going to shut up when I read INVAR's palpable racism. Folks fleeing epidemic gang violence may or may not be legally eligible for asylum, but you don't do Trump a bit of good when you dismiss them as "locusts".
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Does using the word racism somehow validate your opposition to enforced border laws? What Invar said is absolutely true. There is nothing racist about it. If you want immigration it has to be legal and for the benefit of the country and its citizens. There is no more need for low income labor. Plenty here already. Has nothing to do with color of skin.
What is happening is not good for the country. It is only good for the people that benefit from cheap labor. If it was your job you wouldn't be using the racist card. That racist card.....so convenient. And these people do not come and take care of themselves. They rely on social benefits that our legal citizens have to pay for. I don't care whether they are black, brown, yellow or white. They need to come into this country legally and according to real need.
All one needs to do is take a look around. There are a number of communities in North Texas that have been swamped by the H-1B worker, specifically Valley Ranch (North Irving) and Frisco. When we moved here 20+ years ago, the new elementary school had sufficient students for only the first floor. In the years that followed, Indian/South Asians have congregated here, where they now account for over a third of the student population...in a district where the teachers are 90% white.
Another elementary school is under construction, across the street from us, the second new elementary school to be built in the past three years.
From my vantage point, at least a third show no signs of assimilation, particularly the stay at home parents and especially the grandparents of the extended family that are allowed to immigrate here. Our neighborhood alone is now 80% Indian...lovely people, no complaints. The commercial development at Cypress Waters a mile away guarantees that the H-1B program will continue in force for years to come.
Frisco ISD has grown even more, now with 10 High schools to meet the population boom.
The employment centers of Dallas, Las Colinas, and Plano are hubs for H-1B workers, depressing salaries for citizens, despite the historically low unemployment rates.
I've spoken to my son's and grandson's class for Veterans Day for years. Last year, I asked my grandson's class, "how many of you live in households where English is not the first language spoken?" At least 75% of the students raised their hands. I explained that I know what's that like, as I lived in Germany for four years, and learned to speak the language there.
There's no racism in INVAR's words, just an informed opinion in a politically correct world.
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Does using the word racism somehow validate your opposition to enforced border laws?
I do not oppose the enforcement of border laws. Stop lying.
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As for you and your self-serving photograph of your doughy little white hands, your "mercy" is tempered by your abject contempt - expressed frequently on this board - for the folks you "ministered" to. If India's a cesspool, why are we getting a lot of our top tech talent from there? Why not show some real compassion? Jobs and opportunity are what folks everywhere want and need, not some silly man washing their feet.
Jesus likewise would be a silly man according to you, considering He instructed His followers to follow that exact example.
You also demonstrate a hilarious level of abject moronic ignorance about Indian society with no clue whatsoever about it.
Your slimy contempt for those doing things you never in this lifetime would ever soil yourself with, speaks volumes. You advocate empowering government to do what you will not with other people's money while you lecture the rest of us about what we should do with ours and how we should be punished for not accepting your perverted moralities.
Your ridicule of mission work among those you never would dare lift a finger to help outside of using someone else's money, illustrates everything anyone needs to know about who and what you really are.
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But I'm not going to shut up when I read INVAR's palpable racism.
Always where the Left runs for refuge to push their own racism, even when the people they are declaring 'racists' have adopted children of 'brown' and 'black' skin.
You remind me of the morons and idiots who declare Republicans with adopted black children as racists simply because they do not buy into the bullshit agenda you are pushing.
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INVAR, you virtue-signal as much as any liberal I've encountered. I say you're a fraud.
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We need more legal immigration, not less.
@Jazzhead
WHY? We are already losing manufacturing/assembly line jobs as it is,so where is it you think these immigrants are going to live and work? How many are you willing to allow to live with you and be fed and clothed by you?
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WRONG.
Close the borders for the next decade or so, and let's work on those tens of millions of illiterate foreigners that have flooded us in the last several decades before we give thought to opening the border to anyone else.
@INVAR
And while we are at it,deport any and all of them that fail to pass a English reading and writing test,and who can't prove where they have been working and paying income taxes and rent since they first got here.
This ain't the 1800's. WE don't need YOU,YOU need US.
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Illegals coming here to give birth is a problem, but it's a very small problem. The destruction to our booming economy, if employers can't get the workers they need, is a very big problem.
End welfare for the able-bodied, that will solve that problem.
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We're talking past each other. This isn't about illegal immigration. It is about immigration of the legal variety - absolutely essential to our prosperity. Immigrants have, since the birth of the Republic, come here for work and opportunity, not to squat. My grandparents were all immigrants. Perhaps yours were too.
@Jazzhead
So what? When your grandparents came here,we needed "cogs in assembly line". Almost all of those jobs are gone now,some to modernization,and some to China. There IS no work for the illiterate and unskilled here anymore because we already have a full quota and more of unemployed Americans with no actual education or job skills. What we need to do is cut off the welfare and all the other "free stuff" for the ones that are healthy enough to do menial work,and put THEIR asses to work,not bring in even more people who can't read,write,or speak the language,and who want to make America just like the 3rd world shithole they just escaped from.
I know exactly why you oppose "third world" immigration. And it hasn't a damn thing to do with either patriotism, or Christian compassion.
Is that you,Tim Kaine? Why not tell us all why Americans want to put America first?
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Your naked racism comes shining through. You want immigration by whites only, the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us. Be honest and admit it.
Simply disgusting.
@Jazzhead
Ahhh,Pavlov rang the bell,and you barked in answer. Congradualtions! You have proved you are as smart as a lab dog,and able to learn simple tasks.
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Oh yes, I'm a "naked racist":
(https://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/footwash.jpg)
You should just shut the hell up with your liberal Claptrap, because no one here is buying your garbage.
What is morbidly disgusting is people like you who truly engage in virtue signaling to pump liberal/Socialist/diversity-is-our-strength bullshit without any advocacy of and mention of ASSIMILATION into an American culture. Instead, people like you do the opposite and shit all over any talk of assimilation because - well, you just said it - we're a 'naked racist country'.
So Socialist morons and imbeciles can continue to push for open borders to a welfare state - and call it "legal". All you want is for them to get a ticket and a lifetime meal ticket voucher to come pouring in so you can flout your 'compassion' by using our money to sate your perverted set of morals.
@INVAR
These people really don't give a damn about the blacks and browns. The reason they spout this nonsense is to feel better about themselves. They seek the approval of their PC Peers.
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.... If India's a cesspool, why are we getting a lot of our top tech talent from there?
Are you REALLY that ignorant of life in India? HTH is this even possible?
Why not show some real compassion?
How many 3rd worlders have you taken into your home to "give shelter from the storm"?
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Proponents of open borders have always used the race card and will continue to use the race card as society continues to crumble around their ears. Its an easy alternative to debating.
@skeeter
And the REAL reason they want to let the 3rd world in is to drive down wages and living conditions to the point where America becomes a 3rd world nation so they can take over and run the country as a private business,just like Hitler.Mao, and Stalin did in Russia,China,and Germany. EVERYBODY cogs in the machine ran by the bankers and the politicians.
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Folks fleeing epidemic gang violence may or may not be legally eligible for asylum,
I hope not,every single one of them. Anyone so lazy and/or cowardly they won't fight for their own freedom in their native country damn sure is NOT going to be an asset to America. Bleep them and the train they rode in on.
but you don't do Trump a bit of good when you dismiss them as "locusts".
Why? That IS what they amount to. Chances are any that aren't parasites can come here legally. Thousands of other people do this every year,so why not them?
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@skeeter
And the REAL reason they want to let the 3rd world in is to drive down wages and living conditions to the point where America becomes a 3rd world nation so they can take over and run the country as a private business,just like Hitler.Mao, and Stalin did in Russia,China,and Germany. EVERYBODY cogs in the machine ran by the bankers and the politicians.
Flooding the country with disparate peoples so as to prevent the social cohesion which could threaten their grip on power has always been a goal of the ruling elite.
So, without asking whether we agree, they transform our population to traditional society's detriment. The 'racism' charge for anyone who objects is the insult to injury.
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I do not oppose the enforcement of border laws. Stop lying.
@Jazzhead
True,you just want the law to allow anyone to enter that wants to enter.
Are there many jobs for infidel guitarists in Muslim bands?
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I guess I have no choice but to break out my rant from last June, when the photos of kids in cages came around....
Here goes:
Some of the people at TBR may not like what I am about to say, but here it goes....
I don't know where everyone lives who is on TBR, some put there locations, others do not.
What I have noticed is that the people who are the most ardent anti-illegal immigration people on this forum, as much as they put their locations out there, are from the southwest.
Like myself they come from, Texas, or New mexico, Arizona, and California.
There is a reason for that.
No, it is not racism, far from it.
From the time we are born, we are quite familiar with our neighbors, classmates, friends, co-workers and relatives (yes, in many cases) who's origins come from south of our border.
They are part of our lives, from day one.
Spain, then Mexico, controlled these territories before Texas, and then the USA did.
Heck, we would be be shocked if they were not here.
I find it funny now, but growing up, the people here legally with origins from south of the border would make fun of those here illegally, more so than any of us Anglos did.
They had a bit of a resentment, that they were from here, or came in the legal way, while these other did not.
These people still exist, and still don't believe in illegal immigration, but you will not see them on the evening news.
They do not fit the narrative.
No, we are adamantly opposed to it, as we see the damages done daily.
There are post here daily about one crime or another done be someone previously deported, who came back and harmed, or worse, killed someone.
We know that 15% of the Prison population in Texas is comprised of Illegals, as is 15% of our public schools, in our metro areas.
These are expenses paid by us, that needn't be, if we stop illegal immigration,Imagine 15% savings in these areas, by a United States massively in debt.
These aren't all poor asylum seekers looking for a better life.
Were any you aware that most of them have been coached on what to say when they arrive?
We here in the border states know this to be true.
As far as the farmer needing his crops picked?
Some still happens, but modern technology has made most of that a moot point.
No its not racism, or greed, or lack of compassion that drives us to be anti-illegal immigration.
It is seeing how it is destroying families, taken by a DWI or a senseless crime, committed by someone who is not allowed to be here in the first place.
Trust me, the poor illegal immigrant you see today isn't Jose and Maria, crossing the Rio Grande, looking to the new land of the Pharaohs for sanctuary.
I think we would all welcome them. Truly persecuted, why wouldn't we?
It is the schemers who call themselves dreamers who exploit this daily, trained on exactly how to act and what to say when they arrive, only to disappear into the woodwork long before their court date arrives.
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Oh yes, I'm a "naked racist":
(https://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/footwash.jpg)
It has been said that Character is what you do when nobody is looking.
@INVAR OTOH has photographic documentation, readily at hand.
Give a man a sish, Teach a man to fish, and be sure to get photos.
Who paid for that trip?
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INVAR, you virtue-signal as much as any liberal I've encountered. I say you're a fraud.
I cannot say what you are on this forum without getting banned.
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I guess I have no choice but to break out my rant from last June, when the photos of kids in cages came around....
Here goes:
...
No, we are adamantly opposed to it, as we see the damages done daily.
There are post here daily about one crime or another done be someone previously deported, who came back and harmed, or worse, killed someone.
...
Speaking only for my family, we had a loved one murdered by 4 illegal youts. I will always have a different attitude about illegal immigration that my friends in New England.
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It has been said that Character is what you do when nobody is looking.
@INVAR OTOH has photographic documentation, readily at hand.
Give a man a sish, Teach a man to fish, and be sure to get photos.
Who paid for that trip?
I did.
The pictures and the hundreds of hours of video are used in presentations given in churches across the land to bring awareness of the plight of all Christians in India - and to encourage them to get back into mission work, which a large majority of churches have abandoned or limited.
It is educational to say the least to read all the ridicule and seething vitriol that erupts when God or His work is mentioned on a "Conservative" board.
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Speaking only for my family, we had a loved one murdered by 4 illegal youts. I will always have a different attitude about illegal immigration that my friends in New England.
I had a friend lose a 12 year old daughter to an illegal alien, hit and killed her in a crosswalk right in front of him. The funeral was one of the worst experiences I've ever had.
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Is that statement based on your reading of Wong Kim Ark, or something else, @Oceander ? How can an illegal be said to be "resident [in the United States] under the protection of the government and owing a temporary allegiance thereto" if neither the illegal nor the federal government acknowledges her presence here?
An individual who is physically present within the territory of the US, unacknowledged or not, is subject to the jurisdiction of the US unless that individual has some grant of immunity based on his or her relationship to another sovereign.
As Judge Ho said in his article, it is precisely the fact that they are subject to the jurisdiction of the US that makes them illegal aliens; if they were not so subject, they would not be illegal aliens.
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Speaking only for my family, we had a loved one murdered by 4 illegal youts. I will always have a different attitude about illegal immigration that my friends in New England.
I had a friend lose a 12 year old daughter to an illegal alien, hit and killed her in a crosswalk right in front of him. The funeral was one of the worst experiences I've ever had
@Cyber Liberty
@skeeter
I am very sorry to hear this. My condolences.
This was all avoidable, had our immigration laws been fully enforced.
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It has been said that Character is what you do when nobody is looking.
@INVAR OTOH has photographic documentation, readily at hand.
Give a man a sish, Teach a man to fish, and be sure to get photos.
Who paid for that trip?
That is a specious argument if there ever was one.
What then is proper, to take no pictures of a missionary experience? Or that those pictures, taken as a matter of course, cannot be used after the fact to prove the point?
How absurd.
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I had a friend lose a 12 year old daughter to an illegal alien, hit and killed her in a crosswalk right in front of him. The funeral was one of the worst experiences I've ever had
@Cyber Liberty
@skeeter
I am very sorry to hear this. My condolences.
This was all avoidable, had our immigration laws been fully enforced.
TY. After a long while, the pain fades some, but the memories of what happened, and why it was allowed to happen, will never crawl away from me. It's always like just yesterday.
Two of the youts escaped justice by fleeing to Mexico, the other two were eventually convicted and got 10 years each. 10 years! I am sure they were released from prison years ago.
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I did.
The pictures and the hundreds of hours of video are used in presentations given in churches across the land to bring awareness of the plight of all Christians in India - and to encourage them to get back into mission work, which a large majority of churches have abandoned or limited.
It is educational to say the least to read all the ridicule and seething vitriol that erupts when God or His work is mentioned on a "Conservative" board.
So is it you in the photo?
What funded the trip(s)
Either way, it is clear you personally associate yourselff with such religious "good works"
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So is it you in the photo?
What funded the trip(s)
Either way, it is clear you personally associate yourselff with such religious "good works"
Good works in quotes, as if they're to be questioned.
Howabout addressing the argument instead of attacking the messenger?
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What then is proper, to take no pictures of a missionary experience? Or that those pictures, taken as a matter of course, cannot be used after the fact to prove the point?
Remember, the point was being made that I am a racist.
So is it you in the photo?
What funded the trip(s)
I already answered you.
Either way, it is clear you personally associate yourselff with such religious "good works"
If that offends you and you find it distasteful, requiring ridicule, so be it.
Some will say, “You have faith; but I have deeds.†Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. - James 2:18
Good works in quotes, as if they're to be questioned.
Howabout addressing the argument instead of attacking the messenger?
Let him attack. He shows himself for what he despises, and God gets all the glory.
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And, a cheery good morning to you too, @Once-Ler. The sun is shining, it's cool, and life is good. Have a nice day.
Ditto @Sanguine :seeya:
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Remember, the point was being made that I am a racist.
Right... And the pic proved the point, in your favor (ie: You are certainly not a racist).
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Right... And the pic proved the point, in your favor (ie: You are certainly not a racist).
@INVAR @roamer_1
I did not make any claim of racism. I am comparing and contrasting the seeming inconsistency of passion, over the plights of brown people in India, and equally needy souls in Latin America.
John Schmitz, conservative Christian political figure, and Marjoe Gortner color my impression of loud attion seeking folks.
Virtue signaling is still what I see.
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Right... And the pic proved the point, in your favor (ie: You are certainly not a racist).
Well thank you but you know as well as I do that evidence never stops liberals using those tactics to smear those they want to silence.
But be careful, if you do provide evidence to the contrary - you will automatically be accused of 'virtue signaling' which is right up there in heinousness with being declared a 'racist'.
@INVAR
Virtue signaling is still what I see.
See?
I just chalk it up to the fact that you people hate the truth, period. They do not want to see it, read it, heart it or know it exists. Thus the accusations, ridicule and smear.
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I did not make any claim of racism. I am comparing and contrasting the seeming inconsistency of passion, over the plights of brown people in India, and equally needy souls in Latin America.
@truth_seeker
Oh bullshit. As if opening our borders wide and letting all comers get on the public dole is anything at all like charity. Nonsense.
Virtue signaling is still what I see.
Which is why the term 'virtue signaling' demonstrates a paucity of thought.
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I am comparing and contrasting the seeming inconsistency of passion, over the plights of brown people in India, and equally needy souls in Latin America.
I wasn't called to go to Latin America. I did not want to go to India either. But that's another testimony.
And, as I said earlier - I WENT TO THEM. Spent my own funds and time to serve them. I did not advocate they come here to sponge off of you and your neighbors using the government's guns so I can call myself 'compassionate'.
But if you are all heart wrenched over the plight of Mexicans and South Americans, perhaps that is your calling to hop on a plane and go down there to serve them.
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INVAR, you virtue-signal as much as any liberal I've encountered. I say you're a fraud.
You are way off the rails here. You call someone a racist and then when they provide a defense that proves your claim wrong you say they are virtue signaling. You really should apologize if you have it in you.
American culture with its roots in individual liberty flowing from our constitution is what has made America successful and the exception in the world. The 1st and 2nd amendments particularly speak to that. People looking for a job and/or benefits with no interest in our culture or history are a slow poisoning this country. It is shifting the country off its foundations and will cause its collapse if not stopped. The vast majority of these type people are trying to escape the hell hole they come from built on the very culture they demand to bring here. Those cultures are not compatible with liberty.
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@INVAR @roamer_1
Virtue signaling is still what I see.
Of course it is... Do you beat your wife often?
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You are way off the rails here. You call someone a racist and then when they provide a defense that proves your claim wrong you say they are virtue signaling. You really should apologize if you have it in you.
My accusation stems from the man's words, about third world "cesspools" and folks coming here to "outbreed" us. My opinion of the man and his "virtue" is unchanged.
American culture with its roots in individual liberty flowing from our constitution is what has made America successful and the exception in the world. The 1st and 2nd amendments particularly speak to that. People looking for a job and/or benefits with no interest in our culture or history are a slow poisoning this country. It is shifting the country off its foundations and will cause its collapse if not stopped. The vast majority of these type people are trying to escape the hell hole they come from built on the very culture they demand to bring here. Those cultures are not compatible with liberty.
I agree completely with the first sentence above. But I disagree that today's immigrants cannot and will not assimilate and become great Americans. First generation immigrants tend to retain their language and culture (and stick together with folks they know and can communicate with) but the second generation usually soars. It's the same with Hispanics as it is with Swedes, and I can say so from experience (I'm the grandchild of Swedish immigrants who married the daughter of Mexican immigrants. Mrs. Jazz was one of eight kids of a gardener, ALL of whom went to college, including two who graduated from Stamford and one from Yale.)
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My accusation stems from the man's words, about third world "cesspools" and folks coming here to "outbreed" us. My opinion of the man and his "virtue" is unchanged.
I agree completely with the first sentence above. But I disagree that today's immigrants cannot and will not assimilate and become great Americans. First generation immigrants tend to retain their language and culture (and stick together with folks they know and can communicate with) but the second generation usually soars. It's the same with Hispanics as it is with Swedes, and I can say so from experience (I'm the grandchild of Swedish immigrants who married the daughter of Mexican immigrants. Mrs. Jazz was one of eight kids of a gardener, ALL of whom went to college, including two who graduated from Stamford and one from Yale.)
@Jazzhead, no, all cultures are not the same. We do have data on second and third generation third-world hispanic immigrants and no, it's not all rainbows and sunshine. Quite the opposite actually.
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@Jazzhead, no, all cultures are not the same. We do have data on second and third generation third-world hispanic immigrants and no, it's not all rainbows and sunshine. Quite the opposite actually.
The crap they're feeding kinds on college campuses a case in point. Hate to burst the pizza & rainbow crowd's bubble but the left is choosing up sides by tribe.
I'm not doing it. They are.
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My accusation stems from the man's words, about third world "cesspools" and folks coming here to "outbreed" us. My opinion of the man and his "virtue" is unchanged.
I agree completely with the first sentence above. But I disagree that today's immigrants cannot and will not assimilate and become great Americans. First generation immigrants tend to retain their language and culture (and stick together with folks they know and can communicate with) but the second generation usually soars. It's the same with Hispanics as it is with Swedes, and I can say so from experience (I'm the grandchild of Swedish immigrants who married the daughter of Mexican immigrants. Mrs. Jazz was one of eight kids of a gardener, ALL of whom went to college, including two who graduated from Stamford and one from Yale.)
Lots of little Mexico's in California and more popping up daily. Places where few speak English and the businesses use Spanish signs exclusively. Every night there are numerous shootings and stabbing over gang turf. Even public school classes are taught in Spanish. They have little interest in the culture of the United States. They are here for work and benefits only. When you have one of these city's in your county, the vast majority of your county's services get consumed by this city over everyone else paying the taxes in the county. Hospitals are decimated by these people.
Are there exceptions, absolutely. Those exceptions have mostly legally immigrated here.
Regarding "cesspool", have you been anywhere in the world? Much of India and parts of south America are in fact cesspools. Regarding out breeding us, that is exactly the plan of some groups. Ever heard of La Raza and/or the Reconquista movement? They simply conquer by replacing the population one small area after another.
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@Jazzhead, no, all cultures are not the same. We do have data on second and third generation third-world hispanic immigrants and no, it's not all rainbows and sunshine. Quite the opposite actually.
The present state of the Barrios where I live is not "soaring." Almost all are legal, multi-generational households, they don't teach their kids English, instead let the schools try to keep up with their ESL programs to teach them English. You end up with sections of the city were there is "no habla ingles" anywhere.
Not speaking any or little English is probably the biggest problem the immigrants have (around here) in assimilating the culture.
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Speaking only for my family, we had a loved one murdered by 4 illegal youts. I will always have a different attitude about illegal immigration that my friends in New England.
@Cyber Liberty
You are probably wrong about that. There is no shortage of gang-banger illegal aliens that went to the NE to get the more generous welfare benefits.
What you won't see is any news outlet from the NE writing news stories about them unless it is a one-day event about a gang-related fight with multiple cooling bodies. Again,it is a one day event with no follow-up.
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@roamer_1 @truth_seeker
So is it you in the photo?
What funded the trip(s)
Either way, it is clear you personally associate yourselff with such religious "good works"
@truth_seeker
Ok,if there is anyone one the board who can't be accused of being a Bible-Thumper it is me,so I am going to ask. "WHAT is wrong with getting recognition for the good that you do?"
Since we all get abundant recognition here and everywhere else for the bad that we do,why isn't "turn about fair play"?
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The present state of the Barrios where I live is not "soaring." Almost all are legal, multi-generational households, they don't teach their kids English, instead let the schools try to keep up with their ESL programs to teach them English. You end up with sections of the city were there is "no habla ingles" anywhere.
Not speaking any or little English is probably the biggest problem the immigrants have (around here) in assimilating the culture.
@Cyber Liberty
Going to argue with you again. The biggest problem is they don't WANT to assimilate into our culture. They want,and even demand,WE assimilate into their culture.
For the most part it seems to be only Spanish-speaking immigrants,legal or otherwise,and Muslim immigrants that refuse to adapt to America,and demand America adapt to them and their home cultures.
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@Cyber Liberty
You are probably wrong about that. There is no shortage of gang-banger illegal aliens that went to the NE to get the more generous welfare benefits.
What you won't see is any news outlet from the NE writing news stories about them unless it is a one-day event about a gang-related fight with multiple cooling bodies. Again,it is a one day event with no follow-up.
I'm fine with being wrong about it. The New Englanders are just hurting themselves, so if they've allowed the gang bangers to proliferate, who am I to quibble? They're only there for the bennies, right?
@Cyber Liberty
Going to argue with you again. The biggest problem is they don't WANT to assimilate into our culture. They want,and even demand,WE assimilate into their culture.
For the most part it seems to be only Spanish-speaking immigrants,legal or otherwise,and Muslim immigrants that refuse to adapt to America,and demand America adapt to them and their home cultures.
You have a point. You say Toe-MAY-toe and I say Toe-MAH-toe. I would not argue about them not wanting to assimilate, that much is obvious, but I would say this is much more likely to happen in the SW first. That's the place they've staked out for Reconquest. Not that different from the Moslems, now that I think about it. Just slightly different flavors of zeal.
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My accusation stems from the man's words, about third world "cesspools" and folks coming here to "outbreed" us.
I LIVED in the third world, IN THE SLUMS, in the cities, in the rice delta - it IS a cesspool.
Everywhere you walk:
(https://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/poopingroadside.jpg)
As to outbreeding us:
Statement by Augustin Cebada of the Brown Berets de Aztlán outside the Federal Building in Westwood, California, July 4, 1996:
We’re here today to show L.A., show the minority people here, the Anglo-Saxons, that we are here, the majority, we’re here to stay. We do the work in this city, we take care of the spoiled brat children, we clean their offices, we pick the food, we do the manufacturing in the factories of L.A., we are the majority here, and we are not going to be pushed around.
We’re here in Westwood, this is the fourth time we’ve been here in the last two months, to show white Anglo-Saxon Protestant L.A., the few of you who remain, that we are the majority, and we claim this land as ours, it’s always been ours, and we’re still here, and uh, none of this talk about deporting. If anybody’s going to be deported it’s going to be you.
Go back to Simi Valley, you skunks! Go back to Woodland Hills! Go back to Boston! Go back to the Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You’re old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you; leave like beaten rats.
You old white people, it is your duty to die. Even their own ethicists say that they should die; that they have a duty to die. They’re taking up too much space, too much air.
We are the majority in L.A. There’s over seven million Mexicans in L.A. County alone. We are the majority. And you’re going to see every day more and more of it, as we … we manifest as our young people grow up, graduate from high school, go on to college and start taking over this society. Our people … are … the vast majority of our people are under the age of 15 years old. Right now we’re already controlling those elections, whether it’s through violence or nonviolence. Through love of having children we are gonna take over. We will outbreed you."
I disagree that today's immigrants cannot and will not assimilate and become great Americans.
Right. That's the reason why in a whole lot of schools, towns and suburbs in America, Spanish is the only written and spoken language.
Spare us your blind liberal talking points.
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Lots of little Mexico's in California and more popping up daily. Places where few speak English and the businesses use Spanish signs exclusively.
That's the way it's been in America for over 200 years. You are ignorant of history. In the past they were called little Chinas and little Italies. And the same complaints were said about them.
Every night there are numerous shootings and stabbing over gang turf.
In Chicago.
Even public school classes are taught in Spanish. They have little interest in the culture of the United States. They are here for work and benefits only. When you have one of these city's in your county, the vast majority of your county's services get consumed by this city over everyone else paying the taxes in the county. Hospitals are decimated by these people.
Straight out racism - "they're diseased leaches, not people."
Are there exceptions, absolutely. Those exceptions have mostly legally immigrated here.
"Mexico isn't sending the best and brightest...they're sending rapist, drug dealers, and some ,I suppose, are good people."
but screw the good people.
Regarding "cesspool", have you been anywhere in the world? Much of India and parts of south America are in fact cesspools.
Like Chicago.
Regarding out breeding us, that is exactly the plan of some groups. Ever heard of La Raza and/or the Reconquista movement? They simply conquer by replacing the population one small area after another.
I laugh at your boogeymen vampire8
Great posts @Jazzhead
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Oh, just can it @Right_in_Virginia Your lips are so puckered you don't know who your allies are. I've been defending the President's vow to protect the border and limit the reach of birthright citizenship. But I'm not going to shut up when I read INVAR's palpable racism. Folks fleeing epidemic gang violence may or may not be legally eligible for asylum, but you don't do Trump a bit of good when you dismiss them as "locusts".
:laugh: Well, aren't you a delicate snowflake @Jazzhead
I suggest you worry more about your puckered lips than mine.
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I LIVED in the third world, IN THE SLUMS, in the cities, in the rice delta - it IS a cesspool.
Why in the world were you caring for their needs and ministering them? Now they think all Americans will hand them a benny. It's your fault liberal, and Ronald Reagan.
I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.
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Why in the world were you caring for their needs and ministering them? Now they think all Americans will hand them a benny.
Monster of a world of difference in using my own time and money to do missions and charity - quite another to empower and advocate government take your neighbor's money at gunpoint and do charity in your stead, so you can feel virtuous and compassionate.
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Monster of a world of difference in using my own time and money to do missions and charity - quite another to empower and advocate government take your neighbor's money at gunpoint and do charity in your stead, so you can feel virtuous and compassionate.
I do not feel better when that enforced charity is given to white guy, or even an American. The problem for me is not which popular group (old people, people who want to take time off between jobs, farm subsidies, steel businesses) and unpopular groups (refugees, dreamers, illegal veterans) gets the enforced charity. My problem is the enforced charity.
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@Cyber Liberty
Going to argue with you again. The biggest problem is they don't WANT to assimilate into our culture. They want,and even demand,WE assimilate into their culture.
For the most part it seems to be only Spanish-speaking immigrants,legal or otherwise,and Muslim immigrants that refuse to adapt to America,and demand America adapt to them and their home cultures.
I absolutely agree with you. It is quite amazing and to me rather disrespectful, to be around a group of individual of Latino decent who speak Spanish in very loud voices which is obviously done on purpose. My hubby and I two years ago went to a New Years Eve Celebration and we had been sitting in the same area for hours eating and drinking at the sidewalk cafe, waiting for the fireworks. A group of Latinos came in and rather than finding a seat (which there were none left) they decided to stand right in front of us (which was rude to begin with) and spoke as loudly as they could in Spanish. As time went on, more and more Latino's joined the group and kept looking at us, like we should give up our seats because we were outnumbered. No way. We stayed put! You can't tell me that they want to assimilate, but rather want us assimilate to them. No way!
Same generalization can be said for Muslims, they wear the traditional Muslim garb, and often speak with foreign tongue. Nope not going to assimilate to them. Some have challenged our laws against Sharia and they are infiltrating our liberal school system, expecting acceptance of Sharia.
It was interesting, I went into our local cell phone store to get my cellphone looked at. My screensaver at the time was a crucifix with a descending dove; I didn't really think anything of it, but by the look on the techs face, it was obvious that it bothered him. He though did speak in fluent English and was able to help me with my problem.
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:laugh: Well, aren't you a delicate snowflake @Jazzhead
I suggest you worry more about your puckered lips than mine.
So you are saying that I should ignore or excuse racism when I see it? Is that what you are saying Trumps message? May God help us if it is.
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I absolutely agree with you. It is quite amazing and to me rather disrespectful, to be around a group of individual of Latino decent who speak Spanish in very loud voices which is obviously done on purpose. My hubby and I two years ago went to a New Years Eve Celebration and we had been sitting in the same area for hours eating and drinking at the sidewalk cafe, waiting for the fireworks. A group of Latinos came in and rather than finding a seat (which there were none left) they decided to stand right in front of us (which was rude to begin with) and spoke as loudly as they could in Spanish. As time went on, more and more Latino's joined the group and kept looking at us, like we should give up our seats because we were outnumbered. No way. We stayed put! You can't tell me that they want to assimilate, but rather want us assimilate to them. No way!
Good Lord! Latinos speaking loudly and standing close to you? Even on New Year's Eve they did not have the courtesy to speak English? They wanted to assimilate you into their Loud, and no doubt drunken Spanish speaking madness??? Thank Heaven you stayed strong.
Same generalization can be said for Muslims, they wear the traditional Muslim garb, and often speak with foreign tongue. Nope not going to assimilate to them. Some have challenged our laws against Sharia and they are infiltrating our liberal school system, expecting acceptance of Sharia.
Can you imagine some heathen flaunting their religious dress, symbolism, and culture in our Christian nation...I can tell by your avatar that's not something you would endorse. The nerve of these people.
It was interesting, I went into our local cell phone store to get my cellphone looked at. My screensaver at the time was a crucifix with a descending dove; I didn't really think anything of it, but by the look on the techs face, it was obvious that it bothered him. He though did speak in fluent English and was able to help me with my problem.
Owning a Muslim for Christ. 888high58888
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Oh, just can it @Right_in_Virginia Your lips are so puckered you don't know who your allies are. I've been defending the President's vow to protect the border and limit the reach of birthright citizenship. But I'm not going to shut up when I read INVAR's palpable racism. Folks fleeing epidemic gang violence may or may not be legally eligible for asylum, but you don't do Trump a bit of good when you dismiss them as "locusts".
Normally, I don't intervene in other's arguments, nor do I consider myself a Trump supporter per se, but I don't see either @INVAR or RIV comments as racist, but rather describing the situation truthfully and perhaps being somewhat blunt. We have 14,000 or so illegals coming at us; some thugs, some criminals, some armed, some dangerous, some ruthless, ... they want and expect entrance into our country. So, @Jazzhead, what would you call them? Dear darling displaced people? Kind honorable courageous people?
For one, if you are one fleeing epidemic gang violence you don't waltz into someone's else's country and inflict mayhem on that country, or inflict violence on its people. Many of these people were offered asylum in a couple of cities in Mexico and they refused because they wanted entry into the U.S. So ... should we accept everyone who screams hardship, fear, etc., into this country? Have you absolutely not learned anything by watching each country in Europe lose their sovereignty?
Secondly, to blame someone else's words or actions on Trump is absolutely ridiculous. That's no different than me blaming something you said or did on Trump. I for one am very tired of this blame game.
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The present state of the Barrios where I live is not "soaring." Almost all are legal, multi-generational households, they don't teach their kids English, instead let the schools try to keep up with their ESL programs to teach them English. You end up with sections of the city were there is "no habla ingles" anywhere.
Not speaking any or little English is probably the biggest problem the immigrants have (around here) in assimilating the culture.
"Press one for Spanish." Way too true. My husband had a Mexican barber for years. The guy told him that the first thing he told his sons was that they could never succeed unless they learned English. They did both, succeed and learn English. I had a yard guy I really liked Wonderful guy. His English was okay, not great. His little boys spoke perfect English but his wife spoke only Spanish.
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Good Lord! Latinos speaking loudly and standing close to you? Even on New Year's Eve they did not have the courtesy to speak English? They wanted to assimilate you into their Loud, and no doubt drunken Spanish speaking madness??? Thank Heaven you stayed strong.
Can you imagine some heathen flaunting their religious dress, symbolism, and culture in our Christian nation...I can tell by your avatar that's not something you would endorse. The nerve of these people.
Owning a Muslim for Christ. 888high58888
You missed the point; the intent of those Latinos on New Years Eve was get us to move so that they could have our seats by being rude and trying to overpower us with their numbers. That is not assimilating, that is flat out thinking that they are entitled!
As for 'owning' a Muslim ... what a twist of words and misconstruing my point. The point I was trying to make was that he has made an effort to assimilate.
By the way, anytime you want to open your door and allow a couple of people from the caravan mobs into your home, you are more than welcome to do so. The good news for them, you won't be expecting them to assimilate, and they know to expect that you will hand them everything that they want and need at no cost. Hopefully for you they won't overstay their welcome.
Sorry, but those who don't want to assimilate and fail to assimilate have no intention of becoming an American. If they don't want to be an American, then they have absolutely no business being here. It's as simple as that. :patriot:
“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.â€
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https://omny.fm/shows/the-conservative-conscience-with-daniel-horowitz/your-ultimate-guide-to-sovereignty-and-the-birthri
podcast
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That's the way it's been in America for over 200 years. You are ignorant of history. In the past they were called little Chinas and little Italies. And the same complaints were said about them.
In Chicago.
Straight out racism - "they're diseased leaches, not people."
"Mexico isn't sending the best and brightest...they're sending rapist, drug dealers, and some ,I suppose, are good people."
but screw the good people.
Like Chicago.
I laugh at your boogeymen vampire8
Great posts @Jazzhead
You obviously haven't lived in or near one of these areas.
Thanks for calling me a racist.
That brings the conversation to an end. Probably permanently.
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You obviously haven't lived in or near one of these areas.
Thanks for calling me a racist.
That brings the conversation to an end. Probably permanently.
That does seem to be the go-to when they don't have a good argument.
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That does seem to be the go-to when they don't have a good argument.
That's exactly how a racist would respond. If you would have skipped the hyphen you would also be a bigot.
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That's exactly how a racist would respond. If you would have skipped the hyphen you would also be a bigot.
Thank goodness I remembered the hyphen.
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Thank goodness I remembered the hyphen.
I'd respond to that but I only circulate with sexists.
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Thanks for calling me a racist.
I didn't call you a racist. Your words are racist. Did you mean leprous parasites in a good way? It is not my fault you revealed the depth of your character. Stop writing racist crap and I'll stop pointing at it.
That brings the conversation to an end. Probably permanently.
Great. You haven't said anything worth quoting, and I mean that in a good way.
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I'd respond to that but I only circulate with sexists.
Clearly she's as sexist as you are. You think she's using that whip on men *and* women? I highly doubt it.
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You missed the point; the intent of those Latinos on New Years Eve was get us to move so that they could have our seats by being rude and trying to overpower us with their numbers. That is not assimilating, that is flat out thinking that they are entitled!
How do you know? Did you talk to them? What did they say? You are angry because you didn't understand what other people were saying. I get your point. I get it a lot.
As for 'owning' a Muslim ... what a twist of words and misconstruing my point. The point I was trying to make was that he has made an effort to assimilate.
I clearly did misunderstand. You say he is Muslim but it almost sounds like you're also saying he's not part of ISIS? Is that possible after he saw your triggering telephone screen saver. Are you positive he didn't participate in some kind of terrorist activity after? Cut the head off an American pet like my hampster?
By the way, anytime you want to open your door and allow a couple of people from the caravan mobs into your home, you are more than welcome to do so. The good news for them, you won't be expecting them to assimilate, and they know to expect that you will hand them everything that they want and need at no cost. Hopefully for you they won't overstay their welcome.
Do they cook?
Sorry, but those who don't want to assimilate and fail to assimilate have no intention of becoming an American. If they don't want to be an American, then they have absolutely no business being here. It's as simple as that. :patriot:
Some people are allowed to come to America as refugees and if a judge agrees they get in. Simple as that. The judge is not impressed by the simplicity of your opinion.
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So you are saying that I should ignore or excuse racism when I see it? Is that what you are saying Trumps message? May God help us if it is.
@Jazzhead
Racism IS a serious problem in this country,and it is only made worse by people like you who refuse to recognize that it is mostly white people that are discriminated against these days.
Hell,thanks to various Affirmative Action programs,discrimination against whites is even codified into our laws.
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[The 14th amendment] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_M._Howard
If they have broken the law to be here they aren't really here. Not legally. How can they be subject to jurisdiction? They are subject to the jurisdiction of their lawful country.
Instead of rushing them into a cushy hospital room to pop their baby out they should be sent to prison for delivery. And we pay for those births too.
The only possible interpretation that makes sense of the 14th Amendment is that Howard inserted the words 'subject to the jurisdiction of the United States' instead of the word 'illegal' as it was well understood that to be the case.
Otherwise, it makes no sense whatsoever to insert those words.
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The only possible interpretation that makes sense of the 14th Amendment is that Howard inserted the words 'subject to the jurisdiction of the United States' instead of the word 'illegal' as it was well understood that to be the case.
Otherwise, it makes no sense whatsoever to insert those words.
Which leads to the inevitable conclusion that some people aren't looking to make sense of it but instead to facilitate a cultural, demographic and political change.
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@Jazzhead
Racism IS a serious problem in this country,and it is only made worse by people like you who refuse to recognize that it is mostly white people that are discriminated against these days.
:silly: :silly:
Yeah, I face discrimination every G-damn day. *****rollingeyes*****
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My husband had a Mexican barber for years. The guy told him that the first thing he told his sons was that they could never succeed unless they learned English. They did both, succeed and learn English. I had a yard guy I really liked Wonderful guy. His English was okay, not great. His little boys spoke perfect English but his wife spoke only Spanish.
That's how it is - with Hispanics and immigrants of all stripes. The value of mastering English doesn't need to be legislated - it is apparent to anyone who seeks to rise economically in the United States of America. First generation sticks to its language and its ethnic enclaves. Second generation assimilates and soars. My father in law, who's still going strong at 90, still mostly speaks Spanish and his English is so thickly accented that I've mastered the art of eye contact and nodding. But all eight of his kids went to school, all are successful professionals and great English-speaking Americans.
This trope that Hispanics uniquely can't or won't assimilate is the same bullshit we've heard for two centuries now with immigrant groups. Dare I call it racism? Heaven forbid!
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:silly: :silly:
Yeah, I face discrimination every G-damn day. *****rollingeyes*****
@Jazzhead
Don't blame ME if you have your head stuffed so far up your ass you can't see what's happening outside.
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I am finding it very hard to believe a nation, the US, the UK, Italy, Sweden, etc. ought to be obligated to allow entry to an unlimited, unregulated supply of poor and barely educated entrants.
The left would have us believe we have a moral obligation.
So would Usual Suspects, on sites claiming to be "conservative." decline.
I find it very hard, to accept a version whereby the Constitution is the Suicide Pact, forcing further decliine.
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I am finding it very hard to believe a nation, the US, the UK, Italy, Sweden, etc. ought to be obligated to allow entry to an unlimited, unregulated supply of poor and barely educated entrants.
The left would have us believe we have a moral obligation.
So would Usual Suspects, on sites claiming to be "conservative." decline.
I find it very hard, to accept a version whereby the Constitution is the Suicide Pact, forcing further decliine.
No one is disputing the authority of a sovereign nation to control its own borders and determine who may lawfully immigrate. The issue is decades of neglect and failure to both police the borders and deal with the millions who have already crossed over illegally and disappeared into the vast gray economy.
We wouldn't be having a discussion about birthright citizenship if we weren't so neglectful as to accept and tolerate 12 million or so illegals, a percentage of whom will, inevitably, give birth to automatic citizens. Birthright citizenship was never a problem until we made it one with slipshod enforcement of our immigration laws. Those we've allowed to enter our nation legally, and who later give birth to new citizens, aren't the problem. It's the babies born of illegals that are raising concerns - but whose fault is that other than ourselves?
Birthright citizenship enshrined in the Constitution is not a "suicide pact". It's only a problem so long as we allow our threshold problem with illegal entrants to persist. Solve the threshold problem, and the issue of birthright citizenship becomes moot.
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Which leads to the inevitable conclusion that some people aren't looking to make sense of it but instead to facilitate a cultural, demographic and political change.
Great way to have a steady income if one practices immigration law, eh?
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No one is disputing the authority of a sovereign nation to control its own borders and determine who may lawfully immigrate. T
Eh, you have not been paying attention to the UN. @Jazzhead
United Nations: Trump Must Allow Caravan Migrants into America
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,338334.msg1832639.html#msg1832639 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,338334.msg1832639.html#msg1832639)