The Briefing Room
General Category => Elections 2024 => Topic started by: Timber Rattler on March 15, 2023, 11:28:31 am
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64880145
Ukraine has invited Florida Governor Ron DeSantis to visit after he said the Russian invasion was a "territorial dispute" which was not one of the US's "vital national interests".
Mr DeSantis is widely expected to run for president in 2024 and made his remarks in response to questions sent to possible Republican contenders.
Republican senators have lined up to criticise his views, too.
The US should not dismiss Russian aggression or war crimes, some said.
Mr DeSantis has not officially announced his intention to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination, but has been taking all the necessary steps suggesting he will do so.
In his response to a questionnaire by Fox News anchor Tucker Carlson, he said:
"While the US has many vital national interests - securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, achieving energy security and independence, and checking the economic, cultural, and military power of the Chinese Community Party - becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them."
Ukraine's foreign ministry spokesman Oleg Nikolenko tweeted his invitation to the top Republican on Tuesday.
"We are sure that as a former military officer deployed to a combat zone, Governor Ron DeSantis knows the difference between a 'dispute' and war," Mr Nikolenko said.
"We invite him to visit Ukraine to get a deeper understanding of Russia's full-scale invasion and the threats it poses to US interests."
Fellow Republicans were not impressed with Mr DeSantis's comments, either.
Not sure which staffer filled out Tucker Carlson's questionnaire and turned it in, but the answers were stupid and represent an unforced error.
DeSantis knows better.
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Clever move by the Ukrainians. Also, rather than getting nasty and defensive about it, they used respectful phrasing that noted his military experience. I don't imagine that he'll go, but it's a smart move on their end anyway.
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Clever move by the Ukrainians. Also, rather than getting nasty and defensive about it, they used respectful phrasing that noted his military experience. I don't imagine that he'll go, but it's a smart move on their end anyway.
:thumbsup:
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Good sign that this Zellinskyyyyyyyyyyyy. nonsense may end considering Trump/DeSantis have 80% of the GOP electorate support for '24 POTUS nomination
Zellinskyyyyy is one grifting POS, that everyone in the GOP needs to run from.
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Good sign that this Zellinskyyyyyyyyyyyy. nonsense may end considering Trump/DeSantis have 80% of the GOP electorate support for '24 POTUS nomination
Zellinskyyyyy is one grifting POS, that everyone in the GOP needs to run from.
I'm just going to say that whatever your animosity towards Zelinsky, there are also tens of millions of Ukrainians who don't want to be ruled by Russia again. I'm not sure why the moral question of whether or not it is right to support Ukraine should come down to just one guy.
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Good sign that this Zellinskyyyyyyyyyyyy. nonsense may end considering Trump/DeSantis have 80% of the GOP electorate support for '24 POTUS nomination
Zellinskyyyyy is one grifting POS, that everyone in the GOP needs to run from.
So what exactly do you even know about Zelensky? Do you even know when he was elected and when he took office? Do you know anything about him before he even ran for president? I find the general ignorance about him everywhere simply appalling.
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So what exactly do you even know about Zelensky? Do you even know when he was elected and when he took office? Do you know anything about him before he even ran for president? I find the general ignorance about him everywhere simply appalling.
Like Mrs, Z's shopping spree in Paris last Christmas. How much do you know? And how much do you know how this man and his cronies are using our tax dollars being sent there?
You are well aligned with the RINO faction of the GOP, Biden, and the dems in your love of the man, and his gift of grift. Congrats.
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I'm just going to say that whatever your animosity towards Zelinsky, there are also tens of millions of Ukrainians who don't want to be ruled by Russia again. I'm not sure why the moral question of whether or not it is right to support Ukraine should come down to just one guy.
I support the poor Uke folks and their fight with the Russians. I do not support their grifting POS leader who is fleecing us.
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I support the poor Uke folks and their fight with the Russians. I do not support their grifting POS leader who is fleecing us.
I get that. I'm just looking at the realities on the ground, looking at all the predictions for how quickly Russia would overrun Ukraine, and can conclude only that a very large part of the aid we are providing must be going to fight Russians. Maybe Zelensky is grifting, maybe not. I'm not in a position to have sufficient knowledge to know that one way or the other. I know he and his wife have gone on a couple of trips, but I don't know whether that money is coming from sympathetic wealthy Ukrainians or others giving the guy a vacation, or whether it is coming out of our funds. There's really no way for me to know that for sure either way.
But like I said, the Ukrainian military, and the people of Ukraine more generally, are performing heroically. And I'd rather see them supplied with the weapons to defend their country than not.
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I get that. I'm just looking at the realities on the ground, looking at all the predictions for how quickly Russia would overrun Ukraine, and can conclude only that a very large part of the aid we are providing must be going to fight Russians. Maybe Zelensky is grifting, maybe not. I'm not in a position to have sufficient knowledge to know that one way or the other. I know he and his wife have gone on a couple of trips, but I don't know whether that money is coming from sympathetic wealthy Ukrainians or others giving the guy a vacation, or whether it is coming out of our funds. There's really no way for me to know that for sure either way.
But like I said, the Ukrainian military, and the people of Ukraine more generally, are performing heroically. And I'd rather see them supplied with the weapons to defend their country than not.
Good points, and part of the problem is the transparency of how and where the money is spent. If I knew every $ was getting into the hands of Uke weapons purchasers for said purchases, I'd say hell yeah. Versus how much of that money was going to Mrs. Z's love of French Fashion at her last Christmas spending spree.
The point is... we don't know how and where it's spent. And based on that I say we send zero.
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Like Mrs, Z's shopping spree in Paris last Christmas.
Never happened.
And I know a lot about Zelensky. Research is pretty easy. You should try it yourself sometime.
But for starters, you should check out his TV show, which is hilarious satire and truthful too:
https://www.netflix.com/title/80119382
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Never happened.
And I know a lot about Zelensky. Research is pretty easy. You should try it yourself sometime.
But for starters, you should check out his TV show, which is hilarious satire and truthful too:
https://www.netflix.com/title/80119382
Never happened? Sure?, because MSM told you, or was their obfusication the event based on said MSM narrative.
Amazing..... never knew satirical skills as a TV star made one an internationally beloved great leader.
Don't you find it ironic, and at least suspicious that this grifter was able to rise from total obscurity to international stardom in the matter of 48 hours?
And citing Netflix? No political agenda there huh......
Try doing a little research yourself.......
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Never happened? Sure?, because MSM told you, or was their obfusication the event based on said MSM narrative.
Prove it then.
Amazing..... never knew satirical skills as a TV star made one an internationally beloved great leader.
He used his TV show as a springboard for running for president on an anti-corruption/peace with Russia platform. He never expected to win, but did so in a landslide:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48007487
Don't you find it ironic, and at least suspicious that this grifter was able to rise from total obscurity to international stardom in the matter of 48 hours?
Uh no, because a lot of people who keep up with world news already knew who he was, that he had stood up to both Trump (hence the first impeachment) and Putin (at the Normandy Format summit in December 2019), and that he had steel in his backbone:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/26/europe/ukraine-zelensky-evacuation-intl/index.html
And citing Netflix? No political agenda there huh......
Netflix is where both seasons of his show are available, which I helpfully provided to you. How is that having a political agenda?
Try doing a little research yourself.......
It's what I do for a living.
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Like Mrs, Z's shopping spree in Paris last Christmas. How much do you know? And how much do you know how this man and his cronies are using our tax dollars being sent there?
Like I said, I don't. And really, neither do you. I'm sure there's plenty of theories out there based on assumptions, but without actually getting into all the details of the documents and transactions, we can't actually know.
If your criteria is "we shouldn't give them anything unless we can be absolutely sure that 100% of it is being spent appropriately, then I'd agree that standard isn't going to be met. It can't be met in the middle of a war zone because you can't exactly do proper due diligence/inventories when crap is being moved all the time, often at night, being blown up, overrun, etc.. We were never able to do that on our own in our wars, so why expect it to happen elsewhere? Did that unit pick up 10 cases of ammo, or 20 and sell the extras on the black market? No practical way to know. But again, if that's your standard, then we don't support Ukraine.
You are well aligned with the RINO faction of the GOP, Biden, and the dems in your love of the man, and his gift of grift. Congrats.
If you say so. I personally don't care about Zelensky. I care about the Ukrainian people fighting to defend their country, and looking at the flag of the United States and knowing that we are a people who respected that and helped.
Here's what I think about. Let's say we stop supplying weapons to Ukraine, and as a result it gets overrun and collapses. The Russians do what they normally do, and huge numbers of Ukrainians die or are forcibly "re-educated", and a few make it out.
So I run into a Ukrainian couple one day 5 or so years down the road. I ask them how things are going here, and they tell me about all the horrible things that happened to their country after we cut off our aid. And when they ask me why we didn't help them, my answer is "well, I heard that your President's wife went on a shopping spree in Paris, so we decided not to send you any more weapons or ammunition."
Sorry, but I'd be ashamed of us at that point.
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The Ukrainians also stood by the U.S. during dark times in Iraq and sent military doctors to Afghanistan to treat NATO troops.
Ukrainians complete mission in Iraq
https://www.army.mil/article/15056/ukrainians_complete_mission_in_iraq
The Ukrainian Army hosted an end of mission ceremony at Camp Echo in Central Iraq, Dec. 9.
More than 5,000 Ukrainian troops have served in Iraq during Ukraine's five years of service in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
"Enduring peace, stability and prosperity are common values to fight for in the modern world. Your mission in Iraq has been successfully completed," said Viktor Nedopas, Charge d'Affairs of the Ukrainian Embassy in Iraq.
The Ukrainians served as the third-largest Coalition forces contingent in Iraq, with about 1,700 soldiers from 2003-2005.
Ukrainian military doctors to complete their participation in the ISAF mission in Afghanistan
https://nato.mfa.gov.ua/en/news/18342-ukrajinsyki-mediki-zavershujuty-uchasty-v-misiji-mssb-v-afganistani
During the period from 15 February to 15 March 2014, the Ukrainian national personnel are being withdrawn from Ghazni Province in Afghanistan to Ukraine.
For over three years, Ukrainian military medics worked as part of the Polish Military Contingent of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan, which is deployed in Ghazni Province.
During this period, they have conducted thousands of surgeries and provided medical treatment and health care in order to save lives and health of both ISAF troops and the local population. Ukrainian military medics were also regularly engaged in conducting aero-medical evacuation of wounded ISAF servicemen and Afghan National Security Forces soldiers.
High professionalism of Ukrainian specialists and their dedication have been repeatedly noted by the Polish contingent leadership.
The redeployment of the Polish field hospital, at which Ukrainian medics had served, is executed as part of a gradual downsizing of troops and equipment of the international coalition in Afghanistan.
Background: since 2011, three Ukrainian military doctors (specialists in surgery, anesthesiology and general therapy) served as part of the Polish Contingent in Afghanistan, according to the Technical Agreement Between the Minister of National Defence of the Republic of Poland and the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine on the Deployment of the Ukrainian Peacekeeping Personnel in the Polish Military Contingent in Ghazni Province, the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, within the Framework of the International Security Assistance Force.
And support troops too...
Ukraine withdraws its troops from Afghanistan
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6942
Ukraine has pulled its military contingent out of Afghanistan, spelling an end to its 14-year involvement in the embattled Central Asian country.
The withdrawal follows the historic decisions of the United States and NATO to end their operations in Afghanistan in 2021, despite the ongoing war between the country’s weak Western-backed government and Islamist movement Taliban.
All 21 Ukrainians deployed to Afghanistan returned home between June 1 and 5 on the Ukrainian Air Force’s Ilyushyn Il-76MD transport aircraft, which is normally used in overseas operations.
The Ukrainians were part of NATO’s non-combat mission Resolute Support, which provided training and advice for the Afghan Armed Forces since late 2014. Since 2007, Ukraine was also involved in the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), a multinational military mission that was active between 2001 and 2014.
According to Ukraine’s General Staff, the Ukrainian personnel were involved in the mission’s regional staff service, engineer reconnaissance of transport communications, and disposal of improvised explosive devices. They also served watch duties with the international joint rapid response task team.
The experience gained in Afghanistan will be applied at home, including in the war zone of Donbas, the Ukrainian military said.
U.S. President Joe Biden on April 13 vowed to completely withdraw from “America’s longest war” by Sept. 11, 2021, the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks that had precipitated the U.S. invasion in Afghanistan to oust the Taliban from power and end its alleged support of terrorist organization al-Qaeda.
On April 14, NATO decided to end its own peace support mission in the country.
Both the Alliance and the U.S. vowed to maintain their broad support of the Kabul government after they leave.
But according to speculation in the media, the withdrawal is extremely likely to precipitate the downfall of the internationally recognized government and allow the Taliban to completely take over Afghanistan once again.
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Prove it then.
While the 40K Euro spree was disproven, her walking the streets of Paris Christmas '22 with "packages" was not. So why does a wife of a war torn country need to be walking the streets of Paris with packages need to exude such poor optics? Let 'em eat cake huh?
He used his TV show as a springboard for running for president on an anti-corruption/peace with Russia platform. He never expected to win, but did so in a landslide:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48007487
Which is about as silly premise as anyone could have in terms of qualificantions as a so called international beloved leader. At least respond to me seriously. Steven Colbert has a so caled comedic TV show too. Does that qualify him as POTUS?
Uh no, because a lot of people who keep up with world news already knew who he was, that he had stood up to both Trump (hence the first impeachment) and Putin (at the Normandy Format summit in December 2019), and that he had steel in his backbone:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/26/europe/ukraine-zelensky-evacuation-intl/index.html
Silliness part 2... What does that have to do with his "gift of grift"
Netflix is where both seasons of his show are available, which I helpfully provided to you. How is that having a political agenda?
You not knowing Netflix's DEI, Obama, and overall left wing agenda kinds of shows some level naivity on your part. I thought you were a "researcher" :silly:
It's what I do for a living.
I totally erased my original comment on this "gem" of a response, in the spirit of not being mean spiritied. You're welcome.
Point is, you are fully aligned with Biden, dims, RINO's, NWO, and all their ilk in you admiration of this grifter.
I'd normally blow off this bozo, except he's taking my tax dollars. Those tax dollars from an entity that is $32T in debt, and those dollars that could be applied to the citizens of this country instead.
To that ...Mr. Z's duping our political leaders into basically a blank check incenses me, to no end. Enough is enough.
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Always the gimmicky, cloying crap with these guys.
Yeah, I'll go Zelensky - you open the books and show where the money went.
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Always the gimmicky, cloying crap with these guys.
Yeah, I'll go Zelensky - you open the books and show where the money went.
I'm in too. Total accounting of every cent, and full transparency.
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Which is about as silly premise as anyone could have in terms of qualificantions as a so called international beloved leader. At least respond to me seriously. Steven Colbert has a so caled comedic TV show too. Does that qualify him as POTUS?
I just wanted to respond to this one point...
This exact same thing pretty much happened in our own country with Trump. Is being known primarily as the host of The Apprentice really any better in terms of "qualifications"? And whether it is or not, the modern reality is that pop culture/appeal on TV can actually help someone get elected. Whether you like him or not, I don't think there's much argument that Trump really did win in 2016. And he did it because of TV/popular media exposure, not because of some phenomenal resume. So if he could do it, why should it raise eyebrows that it was possible for Zelensky to do the same?
I guess as a final note, it's worth pointing out that we can't eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse in our own military. It's simply impossible, and that's with complete control and access to all the records, in our own language, during peacetime.
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I just wanted to respond to this one point...
This exact same thing pretty much happened in our own country with Trump. Is being known primarily as the host of The Apprentice really any better in terms of "qualifications"? And whether it is or not, the modern reality is that pop culture/appeal on TV can actually help someone get elected. Whether you like him or not, I don't think there's much argument that Trump really did win in 2016. And he did it because of TV/popular media exposure, not because of some phenomenal resume. So if he could do it, why should it raise eyebrows that it was possible for Zelensky to do the same?
Some people rise to the occasion and meet the challenges life confronts them with. Some do not.
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I just wanted to respond to this one point...
This exact same thing pretty much happened in our own country with Trump. Is being known primarily as the host of The Apprentice really any better in terms of "qualifications"? And whether it is or not, the modern reality is that pop culture/appeal on TV can actually help someone get elected. Whether you like him or not, I don't think there's much argument that Trump really did win in 2016. And he did it because of TV/popular media exposure, not because of some phenomenal resume. So if he could do it, why should it raise eyebrows that it was possible for Zelensky to do the same?
I guess as a final note, it's worth pointing out that we can't eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse in our own military. It's simply impossible, and that's with complete control and access to all the records, in our own language, during peacetime.
Thank you for this post. It was the first thing that went thru my mind. We have had a reality star in this country. Recently. That doesn't mean they can't inspire people. And if what I read about Z is true, he was pretty wealthy in his own right.
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Point is, you are fully aligned with Biden, dims, RINO's, NWO, and all their ilk in you admiration of this grifter.
I'd normally blow off this bozo, except he's taking my tax dollars. Those tax dollars from an entity that is $32T in debt, and those dollars that could be applied to the citizens of this country instead.
To that ...Mr. Z's duping our political leaders into basically a blank check incenses me, to no end. Enough is enough.
You didn't answer my question, which tells me that you know nothing. Just deflecting, like all the other pro-Kremlin appeaseniks.
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I have nonissue with what DeSantis said and agree with him 100%
We have to say enough of our money and resources we are going to need for a war that’s on the near horizon.
It’s time to end the Zelenskyy grift.
If these NAFOcrats want to fight…they can go volunteer to be a front line soldier for an Ukraine instead of hiding behind their keyboards.
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If these NAFOcrats want to fight…they can go volunteer to be a front line soldier for an Ukraine instead of hiding behind their keyboards.
I'm not sure anyone here has advocated sending U.S. troops to fight in Russia. The debate is whether we are willing to help arm people who clearly are willing to do the fighting themselves.
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@Timber Rattler
"We are sure that as a former military officer deployed to a combat zone, Governor Ron DeSantis knows the difference between a 'dispute' and war," Mr Nikolenko said.
ROFLMAO!
He was a freaking Navy lawyer. I doubt he ever heard a shot fired,even in training.
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Clever move by the Ukrainians. Also, rather than getting nasty and defensive about it, they used respectful phrasing that noted his military experience. I don't imagine that he'll go, but it's a smart move on their end anyway.
@Maj. Bill Martin
I agree.
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You didn't answer my question, which tells me that you know nothing. Just deflecting, like all the other pro-Kremlin appeaseniks.
Silly f'er... You are more pro-Biden than I am pro-Kremlin.
I've chided Putin 100's of times in the last year for his deeds in Ukraine
But that assumes you had some level of reading comprehension. Which I doubt.
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I'm not sure anyone here has advocated sending U.S. troops to fight in Russia. The debate is whether we are willing to help arm people who clearly are willing to do the fighting themselves.
There are keyboard commandos…the NAFO #fellas who are pushing for US involvement in Ukraine.
I just keep asking when they are gonna sign up and go fight.
And quite frankly I’m tired of us giving away front line weapons and munitions with no plan in place to replace our stores of ammo to a country with ZERO accountability for what we are shipping them.
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There are keyboard commandos…the NAFO #fellas who are pushing for US involvement in Ukraine.
I just keep asking when they are gonna sign up and go fight.
And quite frankly I’m tired of us giving away front line weapons and munitions with no plan in place to replace our stores of ammo to a country with ZERO accountability for what we are shipping them.
In a sane world, your wise words would be heeded, Sir!
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Silly f'er... You are more pro-Biden than I am pro-Kremlin.
I've chided Putin 100's of times in the last year for his deeds in Ukraine
But that assumes you had some level of reading comprehension. Which I doubt.
I'm not quite sure what you may have expected, engaging with "it."
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@Timber Rattler
ROFLMAO!
He was a freaking Navy lawyer. I doubt he ever heard a shot fired,even in training.
He was attached to SEAL Team 1, and was the dude who had to determine the legality of every mission and targeted kill by those SEALs and authorize each one.
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Silly f'er... You are more pro-Biden than I am pro-Kremlin.
I've chided Putin 100's of times in the last year for his deeds in Ukraine
But that assumes you had some level of reading comprehension. Which I doubt.
You still never answered my question.
8bs8
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There are keyboard commandos…the NAFO #fellas who are pushing for US involvement in Ukraine.
I just keep asking when they are gonna sign up and go fight.
And quite frankly I’m tired of us giving away front line weapons and munitions with no plan in place to replace our stores of ammo to a country with ZERO accountability for what we are shipping them.
My thoughts too. Zellinskyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy has no interest in transparency, or accounting of any of the money we sent there.
He's so good at this grift, he doesn't even have to say what he's spending it on. The fact we have Briefers here defending this shit, is mind blowing.
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My thoughts too. Zellinskyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy has no interest in transparency, or accounting of any of the money we sent there.
He's so good at this grift, he doesn't even have to say what he's spending it on. The fact we have Briefers here defending this shit, is mind blowing.
What money has been “sent there”?
You seem to have this fantasy view that bundles and bundles of unmarked nonsequential hundred dollar bills have been dropped off in Kiev.
That is not the case. The funds the US has appropriated have been “spent” by either providing Ukraine with actual weapons, or with cash to US agencies. Your beef is with the US government, not the head of a country that is fighting for its very survival against a Russian aggressor who seeks to seize the countries that used to live under the yoke of Soviet slavery.
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You still never answered my question.
8bs8
What question? Like how me asking you how you make a living doing. uh......... "Research"?
(https://i.imgflip.com/sic6z.jpg)
The bottom line is the grifter Mr "Z" is taking our tax dollars with no accountibility or even the most elementary of explanations of where the money is going. Hell even our silly VPOTUS knows what a Venn diagram is. Is that or a pie chart too f'ing much to ask as the $B's fly out the door?
Sorry..... but after sending the IRS $2M over my lifetime, I might get a little grumpy with this matter, and how that same entity, which BTW is $32T in debt, decides to send said tax dollars to the Ukes, who I heard recently rumoured is also using that same money to fund their state pension plans. Have you given any thought, of how it might be nice not to put us in addtional debt, or even use that money to secure the border, stop Fentanyl poisonings, etc.? I am guessing you very likely don't live in a border state do you?
If you can get me a plan in place where weapons get directly in the hands of the Uke army to kill Russians, bypassing the corrupt Uke pols, I might engage and argue with you on those merits, and I might even support that. But, guess what.... it appears you prefer the blank check approach. And that my friend, is just outright insane.
I sure hope you truly aren't this naive, because right now at the surface I hope you realize that you are allies and in alignment with:
(1) Biden, Schumer, and almost all the dims
(2) Fink from Blackrock and the rest of the woke ESG financial crowd
(3) McConnell, Graham, and the rest of the RINO Clown Car.
(4) and MSM, and Big Tech, for good measure.
So go ahead, and display your Teal and Yellow. I prefer Red, White, and Blue. And keeping my tax dollars at home for people who need it.
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What money has been “sent there”?
You seem to have this fantasy view that bundles and bundles of unmarked nonsequential hundred dollar bills have been dropped off in Kiev.
That is not the case. The funds the US has appropriated have been “spent” by either providing Ukraine with actual weapons, or with cash to US agencies. Your beef is with the US government, not the head of a country that is fighting for its very survival against a Russian aggressor who seeks to seize the countries that used to live under the yoke of Soviet slavery.
So this is all phantom money? Come on....
It's all grift and graft. Without proper paper trails and accounting that I mentioned in the just above post, this has been a stealth operation, where no one outside the federal government will let anyone know how much and exactly how money is being dispersed.
That lack of transparency should scare the hell out of you. And again, as I said it above post..... Get me a plan in place where munitions and help are DIRECTLY provided to soliders in the field to kill Russians? I'll get behind that, but all this fishy wishy mushy fiscal shenanigans right now has to stop.
And I got to ask.... Your premise was "What Money"? Good question. It might be Trillions all we know. That's the point.
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And I got to ask.... Your premise was "What Money"? Good question. It might be Trillions all we know. That's the point.
The specific appropriations are all public, and it isn't a trillion. 70% of it is military equipment, and I didn't see Mrs. Z in Paris trying to trade a HIMARS for a diamond necklace.
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The specific appropriations are all public, and it isn't a trillion. 70% of it is military equipment, and I didn't see Mrs. Z in Paris trying to trade a HIMARS for a diamond necklace.
Thanks Major....
They are?
I've scoured H.R. 7691, ('21/22)
The recent C.R.
No luck on any level of detail in the congressional record.
There's a NYT article behind a pay wall, that "visualizes" the monies, but it in its brief appearance was only at level 1, with minimal detail.
I did find a CSIS (I hate Congressf'ing think tanks) article that went into minisucle detail as follows:
Congressional aid total : $40B (The 6th aid package)
To the military: $19B
To our military preparedness: Roughly $4B
To NATO allies for preparedness: $2B
AND THE KICKER?:
To general financial aid to Ukraine: $16B
$16B??? And to all who keep supporting this, while we have a balooning $32T deficit balance sheet shortfall?
F that!!!!!! And this was just one aid package.
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The specific appropriations are all public, and it isn't a trillion. 70% of it is military equipment, and I didn't see Mrs. Z in Paris trying to trade a HIMARS for a diamond necklace.
:thumbsup:
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There are keyboard commandos…the NAFO #fellas who are pushing for US involvement in Ukraine.
I just keep asking when they are gonna sign up and go fight.
And quite fr
Frankly I’m tired of us giving away front line weapons and munitions with no plan in place to replace our stores of ammo to a country with ZERO accountability for what we are shipping them.
@txradioguy
Who are these posters,and where are they posting here? All *I* have ever seen are a couple of "peace at any cost/surrender monkeys."
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He was attached to SEAL Team 1, and was the dude who had to determine the legality of every mission and targeted kill by those SEALs and authorize each one.
@Timber Rattler
Which means he never once heard a shot fired and NEVER went on any missions.
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Thanks Major....
They are?
I've scoured H.R. 7691, ('21/22)
The recent C.R.
No luck on any level of detail in the congressional record.
There's a NYT article behind a pay wall, that "visualizes" the monies, but it in its brief appearance was only at level 1, with minimal detail.
I did find a CSIS (I hate Congressf'ing think tanks) article that went into minisucle detail as follows:
Congressional aid total : $40B (The 6th aid package)
To the military: $19B
To our military preparedness: Roughly $4Bca
To NATO allies for preparedness: $2B
AND THE KICKER?:
To general financial aid to Ukraine: $16B
$16B??? And to all who keep supporting this, while we have a balooning $32T deficit balance sheet shortfall?
F that!!!!!! And this was just one aid package.
@catfish1957
I am guessing the "general financial aid" includes thing like money to rebuild infrastructure blown up by the Soviet attacks,repair electrical lines,provide food,clothing,and shelter for homeless refugees,medical care for the same people,and all the dozens of other "tools and aids" that civilian populations need after their homes and surrounding areas have been bombed into powder.
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$16B??? And to all who keep supporting this, while we have a balooning $32T deficit balance sheet shortfall?
F that!!!!!! And this was just one aid package.
Does the Ukraine own our entire political establishment? We do not have the resources to police the borders of every country on the planet, while borrowing trillions just to maintain appearances on the home front. Our financial problems are coming to bear.
Also, re: territorial disputes ... the semantic argument is tedious. Any peace deal will involve a redrawn map. Why would the Russians leave, when they clearly do not trust NATO, and whole point of the invasion was to establish a buffer zone?
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Does the Ukraine own our entire political establishment? We do not have the resources to police the borders of every country on the planet, while borrowing trillions just to maintain appearances on the home front. Our financial problems are coming to bear.
Also, re: territorial disputes ... the semantic argument is tedious. Any peace deal will involve a redrawn map. Why would the Russians leave, when they clearly do not trust NATO, and whole point of the invasion was to establish a buffer zone?
Yep, but I have been way too mean spirited on this matter Yes, I am passionate on my POV in my wanting to reduce the nation's financial liabilites, and stop the insane deficit spending. @roamer_1 and I are probably a few of the true last fiscal hawks left. And we both realize that a government can not sustain on a limitless credit card and a blank check. Seeing outlays to Ukraine, when the EU/NATO are not paying an equitable share of the defense/response? To me, that is dead wrong, and to saddle the U.S. taxpayer with that is despicable.
My apologies to @Timber Rattler for earlier comments.
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Thanks Major....
They are?
I've scoured H.R. 7691, ('21/22)
The recent C.R.
No luck on any level of detail in the congressional record.
There's a NYT article behind a pay wall, that "visualizes" the monies, but it in its brief appearance was only at level 1, with minimal detail.
I did find a CSIS (I hate Congressf'ing think tanks) article that went into minisucle detail as follows:
Congressional aid total : $40B (The 6th aid package)
To the military: $19B
To our military preparedness: Roughly $4B
To NATO allies for preparedness: $2B
AND THE KICKER?:
To general financial aid to Ukraine: $16B
$16B??? And to all who keep supporting this, while we have a balooning $32T deficit balance sheet shortfall?
F that!!!!!! And this was just one aid package.
I have watched this debate on our involvement in Ukraine, and I think both sides make some good points
But the cost cannot be ignored. And a poster, I don’t remember who, once asked a question, and she/he never received an answer, what happens if the war starts going badly in a year for Ukraine?
And what happens, as Americans see their standard of living decline, and we start bailing out more banks,if popular opinion rises up against sending a dime to Ukraine?
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Also, re: territorial disputes ... the semantic argument is tedious. Any peace deal will involve a redrawn map. Why would the Russians leave, when they clearly do not trust NATO, and whole point of the invasion was to establish a buffer zone?
That was their public excuse, not their reason. And as a reason, it's exactly backwards. Think about it - Russia is claiming these territories as Russian, which means that if they are successful, the borders of Russia would be even closer to NATO. They will have shrunk their buffer, not increased it.
This was a just a territory grab from the outset for the purpose of rebuilding a Russian/Soviet Empire. They figured they'd grab the most heavily industrialized portions of Ukraine, with the most natural resources, and could do it cheaply.
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And a poster, I don’t remember who, once asked a question, and she/he never received an answer, what happens if the war starts going badly in a year for Ukraine? And what happens, as Americans see their standard of living decline, and we start bailing out more banks,if popular opinion rises up against sending a dime to Ukraine?
If it gets to the point in a year where Ukrainian support is significantly impacting our standard of living -- which it isn't yet -- and/or if Ukraine looks like it's starting to collapse, then we obviously we would re-evaluate the wisdom of continuing support at that time. That seems like a rather obvious response to me, which may be why nobody responded to a question that may have been perceived as just rhetorical.
But judging the wisdom of Ukrainian support now by considering only the worst potential outcomes a year down the road doesn't seem reasonable. To me, a successful Ukrainian defense of their country has enormous potential benefits to us. Not just that we did the "right thing" by helping a brave people defend themselves, but because we would have crippled the conventional military of one of our key geopolitical foes. We would have strengthened massively the NATO alliance, and likely changed the force balance in Europe enough that U.S. forces would not longer be needed there at all. We also would have the long-term gratitude of a victorious, militarily powerful nation that likely would stand by us if we ever needed their help again. And we would have sent a very strong message of deterrence to China that we will not sit by idly in the face of naked aggression.
I think the potential benefits are sufficient to justify continued support to Ukraine. And look, even if it turns out that the defense ultimately was unsuccessful, Russia will emerge much weaker militarily and economically, so we'd still get at least that much benefit out of our support.
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Entitlement reform, while necessary, is going to be a very tough and unpopular sell. It’s going be an even tougher sell while money is being spent on Ukraine
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@Timber Rattler
Which means he never once heard a shot fired and NEVER went on any missions.
You don't know that.
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If it gets to the point in a year where Ukrainian support is significantly impacting our standard of living -- which it isn't yet -- and/or if Ukraine looks like it's starting to collapse, then we obviously we would re-evaluate the wisdom of continuing support at that time. That seems like a rather obvious response to me, which may be why nobody responded to a question that may have been perceived as just rhetorical.
But judging the wisdom of Ukrainian support now by considering only the worst potential outcomes a year down the road doesn't seem reasonable. To me, a successful Ukrainian defense of their country has enormous potential benefits to us. Not just that we did the "right thing" by helping a brave people defend themselves, but because we would have crippled the conventional military of one of our key geopolitical foes. We would have strengthened massively the NATO alliance, and likely changed the force balance in Europe enough that U.S. forces would not longer be needed there at all. We also would have the long-term gratitude of a victorious, militarily powerful nation that likely would stand by us if we ever needed their help again. And we would have sent a very strong message of deterrence to China that we will not sit by idly in the face of naked aggression.
I think the potential benefits are sufficient to justify continued support to Ukraine. And look, even if it turns out that the defense ultimately was unsuccessful, Russia will emerge much weaker militarily and economically, so we'd still get at least that much benefit out of our support.
@Maj. Bill Martin
But some are surprised the former president is unloading such a heavy barrage before DeSantis is even in the race, and they worry that getting into a year-long mudslinging battle with Trump isn’t good look for the party heading into 2024.
I suspect that Trump sees this as backstabbing,and unlike DeSantis,Trump is too old to even consider running in 2028.
I STRONGLY supported DeSantis running as Trump's VP,but he looks like a backstabbing little bitch after doing everything possible to do in order to become the nominee instead of Trump,and frankly,as a career politician,he is NOT up to the job of doing the "dirty work" that needs to be done to clean out the traitors in Congress and the Senate.
Trump,on the other hand,has nothing to lose and everything to gain by being in a position to change things. His ONLY concern would be how he would be written about in the history books. He obviously wants to go down as the "President that saved America from collapse",and to do that,he is going to have to step on more than a few toes. Toes that neither DeSanto or any other Presidential candidate CAN step on because they want to be re-elected.
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Entitlement reform, while necessary, is going to be a very tough and unpopular sell. It’s going be an even tougher sell while money is being spent on Ukraine
@LMAO
Horse Hillary! The people on government entitlements,as a general rule,don't give a damn about Ukraine or anything else other than their "free money".
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You don't know that.
@Timber Rattler
Yes,I do. I spent 6 years in Special Forces and on Special Operations. MD's do NOT go on combat operations.
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@LMAO
Horse Hillary! The people on government entitlements,as a general rule,don't give a damn about Ukraine or anything else other than their "free money".
Huh?
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Clever move by the Ukrainians. Also, rather than getting nasty and defensive about it, they used respectful phrasing that noted his military experience.
Did you really expect Zelensky would say: "Stop by so we can get you on the laundry schedule". :laugh:
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@Timber Rattler
Yes,I do. I spent 6 years in Special Forces and on Special Operations. MD's do NOT go on combat operations.
You still don't know what he may or may not have done in service.
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@Timber Rattler
Yes, I do. I spent 6 years in Special Forces and on Special Operations. MD's do NOT go on combat operations.
You're right -- he almost certainly did not because there is nothing on his uniform that would show he was personally and directly involved in active ground combat operations. He's got a Bronze Star and Navy Comm but neither has a V. However, he was stationed in Fallujah during the surge and directly involved with prisoner interrogations, etc., and likely heard gunfire more days than he did not.
So yeah, that's not the same as putting your ass out there on the front lines. But it's also a lot more than just sitting at home fat, dumb, and happy in front of the TV, where you don't have to worry about IED's, snipers, or random shelling on the drive home from work.
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You still don't know what he may or may not have done in service.
@Timber Rattler
Yeah,I do. From personal experience in a special operations unit.
And you?
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So yeah, that's not the same as putting your ass out there on the front lines. But it's also a lot more than just sitting at home fat, dumb, and happy in front of the TV, where you don't have to worry about IED's, snipers, or random shelling on the drive home from work.
@Timber Rattler
I honestly hate to admit it,but there are still days when I miss the excitement.
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You still don't know what he may or may not have done in service.
Maybe this will help; judge for yourself.
https://coffeeordie.com/Ron-DeSantis-Navy-SEAL/
https://www.operationmilitarykids.org/was-ron-desantis-a-navy-seal/
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Maybe this will help; judge for yourself.
https://coffeeordie.com/Ron-DeSantis-Navy-SEAL/
https://www.operationmilitarykids.org/was-ron-desantis-a-navy-seal/
@libertybele
I am old and my eyes are not as good as they used to be.
Somebody PLEASE tell me that is not a Trident he is wearing on his uniform in that photo of him in cammies.
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@libertybele
I am old and my eyes are not as good as they used to be.
Somebody PLEASE tell me that is not a Trident he is wearing on his uniform in that photo of him in cammies.
It certainly appears so @sneakypete
---scroll down ---
https://www.the-sun.com/news/4458927/ron-desantis-iraq-war-navy-attorney-military/
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@sneakypete
@libertybele
I am old and my eyes are not as good as they used to be.
Somebody PLEASE tell me that is not a Trident he is wearing on his uniform in that photo of him in cammies.
No, it definitely is not a Trident.
It's not a very good picture, but it's a Navy FMF (Fleet Marine Force) badge, which Naval Officers can earn when attached to an FMF unit. My Battalion/Regimental Surgeons had one. My guess is that it probably relates to his time in Gitmo, although it could also have included Fallujah if the SEAL unit was under broader Marine command, or if he ever got dual-tasked to serve as an overflow JAG for the Marines in that same area. But very likely Gitmo because you have to serve in a unit, and then pass some Marine-related tests which he very likely did. One of those looks like this:
https://www.medalsofamerica.com/fleet-marine-force-badge-office-b109?gclid=CjwKCAjw_MqgBhAGEiwAnYOAesTVngqHphGB0sTyXVa8y5niEtKLXmDlvxi91Mfx_93lRPAB01AiLBoCPUwQAvD_BwE
For what it's worth, his SEAL Co, a Navy captain, apparently loved the guy. Probably a very command-oriented guy as a JAG, which would have been valuable under the particular circumstances in Fallujah and Anbar.
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@sneakypete
No, it definitely is not a Trident.
It's not a very good picture, but it's a Navy FMF (Fleet Marine Force) badge, which Naval Officers can earn when attached to an FMF unit.
@Maj. Bill Martin
Thank you. My blood pressure almost went through the roof when I saw that and mistakely indentified it as a Trident. I like him,and something like that would kill his future in politics.
For what it's worth, his SEAL Co, a Navy captain, apparently loved the guy.
I don't doubt it. DeSantis strikes me as a serious person that works hard.
Probably a very command-oriented guy as a JAG, which would have been valuable under the particular circumstances in Fallujah and Anbar.
I agree.
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@Timber Rattler
Yeah,I do. From personal experience in a special operations unit.
30 years ago or more?
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30 years ago or more?
@Timber Rattler
Yeah. So what? I am not a betting man,but I would bet money that it is against Naval Regulations for ANYONE in the Navy to wear a SEAL Trident that isn't a qualified SEAL.
The Navy,of course not do anything to someone who is not in the Navy.
That is not saying that SEALS would do nothing if they caught someone unqualified wearing one.
Yeah,the Trident is a VERY big deal in the Navy,and people who are qualified to wear it take it personal if they see someone unqualified wearing it.
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@txradioguy
Who are these posters,and where are they posting here? All *I* have ever seen are a couple of "peace at any cost/surrender monkeys."
@sneakypete
Twitter mainly. That's their domain. Adam Kinzinger is their biggest mouth. It's the usual suspects all advocating for war and continued escalation of what we're doing in Ukraine i.e. sending money and arms without oversight.
Look up NAFO it will tell you what's up.
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@sneakypete
Twitter mainly. That's their domain. Adam Kinzinger is their biggest mouth. It's the usual suspects all advocating for war and continued escalation of what we're doing in Ukraine i.e. sending money and arms without oversight.
Look up NAFO it will tell you what's up.
Yeah, I see that same batch of yahoos on Twitter, too. Thanks for hooking me up with Helena Handbasket, she's tough!
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Maybe this will help; judge for yourself.
https://coffeeordie.com/Ron-DeSantis-Navy-SEAL/
https://www.operationmilitarykids.org/was-ron-desantis-a-navy-seal/
It's a surface warfare officer officer badge. At some point during his navy career he qualified for a SWO as a staff officer which is what JAG officers are in any unit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_warfare_insignia
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Yeah, I see that same batch of yahoos on Twitter, too. Thanks for hooking me up with Helena Handbasket, she's tough!
She's a warrior and she's got her facts which the trolls anti gunners and pro abort types find out pretty quickly after tangling with her.
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@sneakypete
Twitter mainly. That's their domain. Adam Kinzinger is their biggest mouth. It's the usual suspects all advocating for war and continued escalation of what we're doing in Ukraine i.e. sending money and arms without oversight.
Look up NAFO it will tell you what's up.
@txradioguy
Thanks,I went to twitter several years ago,and see no reason to return.
BTW,as long as American troops/pilots are not involved,*I* am 100 percent behind helping the Ukrainians destroy the Soviets by providing them with the weapons and other equipment they need .
IMNSHO,anyone who isn't is a fool.
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@txradioguy
Thanks,I went to twitter several years ago,and see no reason to return.
BTW,as long as American troops/pilots are not involved,*I* am 100 percent behind helping the Ukrainians destroy the Soviets by providing them with the weapons and other equipment they need .
IMNSHO,anyone who isn't is a fool.
@sneakypete
I want the people of Ukraine to win. I don't support the graft and grift that Zelensky is running. We've got people struggling to make ends meet...vets living homeless on the streets and the billions we're giving Ukraine is being put to use to pay peoples pensions and fund their government. All with zero accountability or oversight. Meanwhile it's driving up our debt by printing money we don't have.
I don't like being told either support him or you're a Putin lover.
Anyone who knows me from 8 years ago during the 2015 primaries know how I feel about that kind of either or finger pointing.
I don't like us giving up our front line munitions armor and tech with no plan in place to replace the stores we're depleting in giving it to Ukraine. We currently don't have the production capabilities or production lines available to replenish what we're giving to Ukraine. We've got a hostile and aggressive China on the move and we're giving away munitions we need to fight them and we're not replacing them in the supply chain. That's suicide.
Ok rant over. I'll get off my soapbox now.
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She's a warrior and she's got her facts which the trolls anti gunners and pro abort types find out pretty quickly after tangling with her.
She's far more patient with those idiots than I can be.
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She's far more patient with those idiots than I can be.
I've just started muting them. It's like 20 new ones crop up overnight.
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I've just started muting them. It's like 20 new ones crop up overnight.
Same here.
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@sneakypete
I want the people of Ukraine to win. I don't support the graft and grift that Zelensky is running.
Who does? Then again,anyone who demands someone else in a shooting war "Play by MY rules or I am going to take my ball and go home" is a fool in a "game" this serious.
We "Fight our enemies" with the tools available to us,which are not necessarily the "tools" we want,and ANYBODY from the west who wants to have a hissy-fit because the people doing the fighting and dying do not meet their standards for "perfection" is too stupid to be classified as a fool.
We ain't marrying Ukraine,we are just equipping them to destroy a mutual enemy.
@txradioguy We've got people struggling to make ends meet...vets living homeless on the streets and the billions we're giving Ukraine is being put to use to pay peoples pensions and fund their government. All with zero accountability or oversight. Meanwhile it's driving up our debt by printing money we don't have.
Yeah,and public aid money and other benefits will be MUCH more available if we allow the Neo-Soviets to conquer Ukraine and then move further into Europe once they catch their breath and regroup,right?
I have no idea what the numbers would be,but a weakened USSR that is defeated by a much smaller and weaker nation means we WILL have more money to spend on domestic issues.
However,we won't have this money in OUR lifetimes if we allow the Neo-Soviets to conquer Ukraine and them eventually move into Europe because our defense budget WILL go through the roof.
Ukraine defeating the neo-Soviets NOW and forcing them to return to Russia will save us a TON of money we would have otherwise had to spend on larger defense budgets,starting in the near future.
Not to mention make the world a safer place at the same time
I don't like being told either support him or you're a Putin lover.
Why? The end result is the same regardless of your intentions. We,and others in the west stop them now,or they WILL be planning on going into our European allies nations next. Communism can ONLY ""survive if they are the "Masters of the World".
Anyone who knows me from 8 years ago during the 2015 primaries know how I feel about that kind of either or finger pointing.
I don't like us giving up our front line munitions armor and tech with no plan in place to replace the stores we're depleting in giving it to Ukraine.
From what I have read and understand,we are NOT doing that. What we are giving them is obsolete equipment that was,at best,"second line",and bordering on obsolete as well as being scheduled to scrap.
We currently don't have the production capabilities or production lines available to replenish what we're giving to Ukraine.
1: Yes,we do,if we want to do it. We haven't done it already because the left is in control of spending now,and they are using all our money to import illegal aliens and buy their votes with "free everything".
We've got a hostile and aggressive China on the move
The only thing China is on the move for is our manufacturing ability and assets,and thanks to the Dims and their RINO pals,they are being hugely successful. Hell,they have even bought up meat packing plants (Armour),disassembled them and shipped them to China for re-assembly. They are also making GM automatic transmissions,and had GM pay to build the plants and teach them how to do it.
and we're giving away munitions we need to fight them and we're not replacing them in the supply chain.
No,we are not.
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No,we are not.
Yeah @sneakypete we are.
https://news.usni.org/2022/04/27/u-s-missiles-sent-to-ukraine-arent-easily-replaced-panel-tells-senate
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/push-to-arm-ukraine-may-put-strain-on-u-s-weapons-stockpile
https://www.ft.com/content/a781fb71-49bb-4052-ab05-a87386bf3d5e
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@sneakypete at the end of the day your analysis of the all or nothing attitude about Ukraine and your analysis of China are wrong.
There’s just no other way to say it.
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@sneakypete
@Timber Rattler
ROFLMAO!
He was a freaking Navy lawyer. I doubt he ever heard a shot fired,even in training.
Nah. Anyone in Fallujah/Anbar during that period in particularwould probably have heard gunfire on a daily basis, regardless of MOS. Now obviously, just hearing it is a lot different than heading towards it, but it wasn't nearly the same as manning a desk in the Pentagon. Plenty of folks in non-combat positions got killed over there by snipers, in mortar attacks, or by IED's.
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@sneakypete at the end of the day your analysis of the all or nothing attitude about Ukraine and your analysis of China are wrong.
There’s just no other way to say it.
@txradioguy
You know what they say,"Opinions are like buttholes. Everybody has one,even you.
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@sneakypete
Nah. Anyone in Fallujah/Anbar during that period in particularwould probably have heard gunfire on a daily basis, regardless of MOS. Now obviously, just hearing it is a lot different than heading towards it, but it wasn't nearly the same as manning a desk in the Pentagon. Plenty of folks in non-combat positions got killed over there by snipers, in mortar attacks, or by IED's.
@Maj. Bill Martin
Not to mention vehicle accidents.
ALL those activities are still safer than "suiting up and going off to get bad guys",though.
Still,you make a valid point about there no being any such thing as a truly safe job in places like that.
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@Maj. Bill Martin
Not to mention vehicle accidents.
ALL those activities are still safer than "suiting up and going off to get bad guys",though.
Still,you make a valid point about there no being any such thing as a truly safe job in places like that.
Oh hell yeah they are. Snoopin' and poopin' is some scary crap.
Pun intended.