The Briefing Room
General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: Fishrrman on February 07, 2023, 05:44:27 pm
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https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/feb/6/risk-of-uncontrolled-escalation-inches-nearer-in-u/
Risk of uncontrolled escalation inches nearer in Ukraine war
By Brandon J. Weichert - - Monday, February 6, 2023
For those hoping for a negotiated settlement to end the war in Ukraine, forget it. The conflict that has raged for a year has entered its terminal phase. The Ukrainians have done a gallant job of resisting the initial invasion. Now, however, Moscow has fully mobilized at the precise moment that NATO‘s critical stockpiles of weapons and Ukraine‘s forces are wearing down.
Plus, Russia’s leadership has made it clear that they view this struggle against Ukraine as an existential fight — not only for the survival of the autocratic regime of Vladimir Putin but for the continued existence of Russia as a unified nation-state itself.
NATO only gets more desperate with each moment that passes in Ukraine. In its desperation, the risk of uncontrolled escalation inches nearer — which may involve nuclear weapons. What a switch from just six months ago, when it truly looked like it was Russia that might end up losing and collapsing in the face of stiff Ukrainian resistance.
Had the West had real statesmen in charge as opposed to the lot of childlike, ideological lunatics, a negotiated settlement that split Ukraine in half might have been brokered. Time would have been bought for NATO to restore its spent arsenals and for Ukraine to reestablish sensible defensive perimeters around the core of that nation. And Mr. Putin just might have been overthrown for having failed to knock out the U.S.-backed government in Kyiv.
But that window has closed.
More at URL above...
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Wow. What pure pro-Putin b.s.
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If America had a president like Winston Churchill, Ukraine would have had those Polish Soviet-era fighter jets before Putin's War even started.
The Ukrainian government is far from perfect, but I will not disparage a nation whose citizens are willing to sacrifice their own lives to defend their independence against a larger, invading military.
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Wow. What pure pro-Putin b.s.
This isn't "pro-Putin". It's reality.
Had the West had real statesmen in charge as opposed to the lot of childlike, ideological lunatics, a negotiated settlement that split Ukraine in half might have been brokered. Time would have been bought for NATO to restore its spent arsenals and for Ukraine to reestablish sensible defensive perimeters around the core of that nation. And Mr. Putin just might have been overthrown for having failed to knock out the U.S.-backed government in Kyiv.
But that window has closed.
There are no Western/US statesmen because we instigated and promote this war.
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This isn't "pro-Putin". It's reality.
There are no Western/US statesmen because we instigated and promote this war.
Utter swill and hogwash.
Stating that we should have told Ukraine that it would have to give up half of its sovereign territory to the aggressor - Russia - is wholly pro-Putin.
And no, we did not instigate the Russian invasion - the Russians did. WADR, only an idiot, or a pathetic Putin mouthpiece, would think otherwise.
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Utter swill and hogwash.
And no, we did not instigate the Russian invasion - the Russians did. WADR, only an idiot, or a pathetic Putin mouthpiece, would think otherwise.
I am not a Putin mouthpiece. And, you know this.
You also know --- and this is what infuriates you ---- I am not a Biden mouthpiece, and will not be no matter how often or how hard you try to insult me into accepting this submission you embrace.
There are 1,000 years of history on The Borderland. I suggest you fast forward and begin your unedited research in the 20th Century. It's past time for you to stop hiding behind insults and begin educating yourself.
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I am not a Putin mouthpiece. And, you know this.
You also know --- and this is what infuriates you ---- I am not a Biden mouthpiece, and will not be no matter how often or how hard you try to insult me into accepting this submission you embrace.
There are 1,000 years of history on The Borderland. I suggest you fast forward and begin your unedited research in the 20th Century. It's past time for you to stop hiding behind insults and begin educating yourself.
Actually, yes, you are a Putin mouthpiece - that, or an unthinking tool being used by those who are.
Very simple question: Prior to Russia's invasion, did the U.S. have offensive troops stationed in Ukraine that were threatening Russia? Alternatively, did the U.S. announce that it would be stationing offensive troops in Ukraine that would be used to threaten Russia?
The answer choices are "Yes" and "No".
Please answer.
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Actually, yes, you are a Putin mouthpiece -
Apparently, my previous post confused you. I suggest you add "Remedial English" as part of your desperately needed education.
Now, shoo......
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The war can end any time, if the Russians just go back to Russia.
It really is that simple.
What people are proposing is as if someone invades your home and you are having a bit of trouble kicking them out, you should give them the front room, and maybe the kitchen so they maybe quit fighting you.
Even if you did, they'd be back for more.
As unacceptable as you would find this "solution" in your own home, Ukrainians have found it for their nation.
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The war can end any time, if the Russians just go back to Russia.
It really is that simple.
What people are proposing is as if someone invades your home and you are having a bit of trouble kicking them out, you should give them the front room, and maybe the kitchen so they maybe quit fighting you.
Even if you did, they'd be back for more.
As unacceptable as you would find this "solution" in your own home, Ukrainians have found it for their nation.
It really is just that simple.
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This isn't "pro-Putin". It's reality.
There are no Western/US statesmen because we instigated and promote this war.
@Right_in_Virginia
Have you lost your freaking mind???????
WE,the west,instigated this war by convincing Pooty-Poot to invade Ukraine against his will?
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I am not a Putin mouthpiece. And, you know this.
You also know --- and this is what infuriates you ---- I am not a Biden mouthpiece, and will not be no matter how often or how hard you try to insult me into accepting this submission you embrace.
There are 1,000 years of history on The Borderland. I suggest you fast forward and begin your unedited research in the 20th Century. It's past time for you to stop hiding behind insults and begin educating yourself.[/q
@Right_in_Virginia
I sincerely hope you were looking into a mirror as you typed this.
You ARE a "surrender monkey".
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The war can end any time, if the Russians just go back to Russia.
It really is that simple.
No, it is not ------ and this is the point so many miss.
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It really is just that simple.
There is no legitimate excuse - none - for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The claim that Russia was actually threatened by Ukraine or NATO is a lie, and I've yet to find a single person on that side of the debate -either here or at TOS, who is willing to defend that point when pressed.
Doesn't stop them from repeating it, though.
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The below information might be used as a reason to say that the U.S. "instigated" the war. Putin reacted to this quickly in his comments. But the first impulses for Ukraine to join NATO began in 2005 from European countries as first a MAP (Membership Action Plan). Of course the U.S. would eventually involve itself. The Ukraine's membership in NATO was already in the wind. Putin chose to respond when the certainty was more immediate. Then he reacted like the classic cornered former KGB officer he is!
On 11 January 2022, it became known that a group of Republican congressmen intended to introduce a bill declaring Ukraine a NATO-plus country and initiating a review of the advisability of declaring Russia a state sponsor of terrorism. The authors of the bill argue that recognizing Ukraine as a "NATO+ country" will make it possible to quickly make decisions on the provision and sale of American defense goods and services to Ukraine. In particular, according to Mike Rogers, co-author of the bill, this rule concerns the provision of anti-ship and air defense systems. In addition, this bill proposes to create a mechanism for the rapid imposition of sanctions against Nord Stream 2 in the event of a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. The authors of the bill are convinced that in this way they will forever block the commissioning of the pipeline. Also, if adopted, the United States is obliged to consider and vote on whether to grant Russia the status of a "country-sponsor of international terrorism."
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The war can end any time, if the Russians just go back to Russia.
It really is that simple.
What people are proposing is as if someone invades your home and you are having a bit of trouble kicking them out, you should give them the front room, and maybe the kitchen so they maybe quit fighting you.
Even if you did, they'd be back for more.
As unacceptable as you would find this "solution" in your own home, Ukrainians have found it for their nation.
Perfect analogy. happy77 Whatever their nation may/may not be, the people are willing to fight for it.
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The Ukrainian government is far from perfect, but I will not disparage a nation whose citizens are willing to sacrifice their own lives to defend their independence against a larger, invading military.
Ditto
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Apparently, my previous post confused you. I suggest you add "Remidial English" as part of your desperately needed education.
Now, shoo......
It's spelled remedial.
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The below information might be used as a reason to say that the U.S. "instigated" the war. Putin reacted to this quickly in his comments. But the first impulses for Ukraine to join NATO began in 2005 from European countries as first a MAP (Membership Action Plan). Of course the U.S. would eventually involve itself. The Ukraine's membership in NATO was already in the wind. Putin chose to respond when the certainty was more immediate. Then he reacted like the classic cornered former KGB officer he is!
On 11 January 2022, it became known that a group of Republican congressmen intended to introduce a bill declaring Ukraine a NATO-plus country and initiating a review of the advisability of declaring Russia a state sponsor of terrorism. The authors of the bill argue that recognizing Ukraine as a "NATO+ country" will make it possible to quickly make decisions on the provision and sale of American defense goods and services to Ukraine. In particular, according to Mike Rogers, co-author of the bill, this rule concerns the provision of anti-ship and air defense systems. In addition, this bill proposes to create a mechanism for the rapid imposition of sanctions against Nord Stream 2 in the event of a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. The authors of the bill are convinced that in this way they will forever block the commissioning of the pipeline. Also, if adopted, the United States is obliged to consider and vote on whether to grant Russia the status of a "country-sponsor of international terrorism."
Russia had already consumed part of Ukraine by that time. And the fact is it takes years to become a NATO member with a bunch of requirements that have to be met. The process hadn't even started. There was no imminent threat to Russia period. It is Russia's long history of invading it neighbors that have pushed neighboring countries to join the alliance seeking protection from the bully.
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It's spelled remedial.
:mauslaff:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-7bPN4x9K9A/maxresdefault.jpg)
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It's spelled remedial.
Thanks. Appreciate you reading my posts @jmyrlefuller 888high58888
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Random thought: What about giving/selling/leasing A-10 WartHog tank killers to Ukraine?
The A-10 WartHogs were designed during the Cold War for destroying tanks on the Eastern European steppe/plains.
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Had the West had real statesmen in charge as opposed to the lot of childlike, ideological lunatics, a negotiated settlement that split Ukraine in half might have been brokered. Time would have been bought for NATO to restore its spent arsenals and for Ukraine to reestablish sensible defensive perimeters around the core of that nation.
That is either flat-out delusional, or a deliberate lie. There is no universe in which a Ukraine that has lost half of its resources and population can be more easily defended. It's just a guarantee that Russia would come back in a few years to finish the job by invading from Belarus, Moldova, and via air bridges over the Dnipro.
Anyone who advocated that is, by definition, pro-Russia.
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No, it is not ------ and this is the point so many miss.
@Right_in_Virginia
Yes,the war WILL stop if we are talking about the war between The Neo Soviet-Union and Ukraine.
I have no doubt it will continue inside the borders of Russia if Putin and his butt-buddies don't get the hell out of Russia ASAP,though. They will be marked men.
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Random thought: What about giving/selling/leasing A-10 WartHog tank killers to Ukraine?
The A-10 WartHogs were designed during the Cold War for destroying tanks on the Eastern European steppe/plains.
@DefiantMassRINO
AND.....,they do an INCREDIBLE job at it,too,
If you ever see one in action up close, you suddenly gain a true understanding of the word "Awe".
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On that logic, the United States should be split into multiple pieces - Greater New England, Greater New Francia, Greater New Espana, New Netherands, New Sweden, New Russia, and New Polynesia.
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That is either flat-out delusional, or a deliberate lie. There is no universe in which a Ukraine that has lost half of its resources and population can be more easily defended. It's just a guarantee that Russia would come back in a few years to finish the job by invading from Belarus, Moldova, and via air bridges over the Dnipro.
Anyone who advocated that is, by definition, pro-Russia.
:thumbsup:
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That is either flat-out delusional, or a deliberate lie. There is no universe in which a Ukraine that has lost half of its resources and population can be more easily defended. It's just a guarantee that Russia would come back in a few years to finish the job by invading from Belarus, Moldova, and via air bridges over the Dnipro.
Anyone who advocated that is, by definition, pro-Russia.
There are tremendous resources in the Donbas, including 87% of Ukraine's oil and gas production. The heavily contested Steel works produced armor plate and specialty steel that the Russians were buying. There also, in the region, was the Ukrainian missile and component industry, not to mention other natural resources.
The 'half' that some people are talking about Ukraine surrendering to invaders ("Peace in out time!") is a significant portion of the Ukrainian economy and industry, and strategic in nature. Surrendering that and even more access to the Black Sea and the unknown offshore mineral resources there would be folly, and would cripple Ukraine's economy as compared to what it was prior to the Russian invasion.
Even more, the Ukrainians have demonstrated that they are willing to fight for their homeland.
Enough nonsense about capitulation.
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There are tremendous resources in the Donbas, including 87% of Ukraine's oil and gas production. The heavily contested Steel works produced armor plate and specialty steel that the Russians were buying. There also, in the region, was the Ukrainian missile and component industry, not to mention other natural resources.
The 'half' that some people are talking about Ukraine surrendering to invaders ("Peace in out time!") is a significant portion of the Ukrainian economy and industry, and strategic in nature. Surrendering that and even more access to the Black Sea and the unknown offshore mineral resources there would be folly, and would cripple Ukraine's economy as compared to what it was prior to the Russian invasion.
Even more, the Ukrainians have demonstrated that they are willing to fight for their homeland.
Enough nonsense about capitulation.
:thumbsup:
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There are tremendous resources in the Donbas, including 87% of Ukraine's oil and gas production. The heavily contested Steel works produced armor plate and specialty steel that the Russians were buying. There also, in the region, was the Ukrainian missile and component industry, not to mention other natural resources.
The 'half' that some people are talking about Ukraine surrendering to invaders ("Peace in out time!") is a significant portion of the Ukrainian economy and industry, and strategic in nature. Surrendering that and even more access to the Black Sea and the unknown offshore mineral resources there would be folly, and would cripple Ukraine's economy as compared to what it was prior to the Russian invasion.
Even more, the Ukrainians have demonstrated that they are willing to fight for their homeland.
Enough nonsense about capitulation.
:beer:
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Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11
According to WaPo, Ukraine’s rocket campaign is "reliant on U.S. precision targeting" So the U.S. is now targeting missiles directly at Russia. Are we even trying to call this a proxy war still, or just war?
8:23 PM · Feb 9, 2023
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There are tremendous resources in the Donbas, including 87% of Ukraine's oil and gas production. The heavily contested Steel works produced armor plate and specialty steel that the Russians were buying. There also, in the region, was the Ukrainian missile and component industry, not to mention other natural resources.
The 'half' that some people are talking about Ukraine surrendering to invaders ("Peace in out time!") is a significant portion of the Ukrainian economy and industry, and strategic in nature. Surrendering that and even more access to the Black Sea and the unknown offshore mineral resources there would be folly, and would cripple Ukraine's economy as compared to what it was prior to the Russian invasion.
Even more, the Ukrainians have demonstrated that they are willing to fight for their homeland.
Enough nonsense about capitulation.
@Smokin Joe
You know what would fill MY heart with joy?
It would be to see the US surrender monkeys be FORCED to sign an agreement to move to Ukraine and work for the Soviets if we pull out our forces and military support.
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Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11
According to WaPo, Ukraine’s rocket campaign is "reliant on U.S. precision targeting" So the U.S. is now targeting missiles directly at Russia. Are we even trying to call this a proxy war still, or just war?
8:23 PM · Feb 9, 2023
@Right_in_Virginia
What the hell do YOU care. YOU "win" either way because you are a "Surrender Monkey". If Ukraine is successful at chasing the Neo-Soviets out of Ukraine,you win because you THINK you are no longer at risk.
If the Neo-Soviets win,you are still at no real risk because even if they landed troops on both coasts,you would greet them as saviors and throw them flowers.
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Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11
According to WaPo, Ukraine’s rocket campaign is "reliant on U.S. precision targeting" So the U.S. is now targeting missiles directly at Russia. Are we even trying to call this a proxy war still, or just war?
8:23 PM · Feb 9, 2023
When has a HIMARS rocket struck Russia?
Oops.
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Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11
According to WaPo, Ukraine’s rocket campaign is "reliant on U.S. precision targeting" So the U.S. is now targeting missiles directly at Russia. Are we even trying to call this a proxy war still, or just war?
8:23 PM · Feb 9, 2023
:mauslaff:
Wow. Putin’s buttcheeks must be getting awfully chapped from all the kissage going on.
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:mauslaff:
Wow. Putin’s buttcheeks must be getting awfully chapped from all the kissage going on.
@Kamaji
Don't worry about Pooty-Poot. Like ALL "Maximum Leaders",he is so used to that he would be outraged if it didn't happen all day,every day.
Don't forget that this is a Communist leader that OWNS a private jet AND the "largest private yacht in the world".
Everyone else,of course,are required to be good little comrades,and work for slave wages.
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Michael Tracey
@mtracey
Ukraine official says when they fire rockets at Russian targets, the US military is “controlling every shot.” Yet another example of a “previously undisclosed practice that reveals a deeper and more operationally active role for the Pentagon in the war”
(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1623793888703000577/zYjvy8yj?format=jpg&name=small)
Ukraine’s rocket campaign reliant on U.S. precision targeting, officials say
Ukrainian officials say that they almost never launch HIMARS rounds without precise coordinates provided by U.S. military personnel, revealing a more operationally active role for the Pentagon in the...
More:. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/02/09/ukraine-himars-rocket-artillery-russia/
9:09 PM · Feb 9, 2023
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:mauslaff:
Wow. Putin’s buttcheeks must be getting awfully chapped from all the kissage going on.
Michael Tracey
@mtracey
“Pentagon officials declined for days to answer questions about whether and how they provide coordinates for the strikes,” but “a Ukrainian official confirmed that targeting all goes through an American installation on NATO soil”
Don’t worry, nothing to see here, please carry on.
9:12 PM · Feb 9, 2023
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Michael Tracey
@mtracey
“Pentagon officials declined for days to answer questions about whether and how they provide coordinates for the strikes,” but “a Ukrainian official confirmed that targeting all goes through an American installation on NATO soil”
Don’t worry, nothing to see here, please carry on.
9:12 PM · Feb 9, 2023
Again, when has a HIMARS rocket struck Russia?
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Michael Tracey
@mtracey
Ukraine official says when they fire rockets at Russian targets, the US military is “controlling every shot.” Yet another example of a “previously undisclosed practice that reveals a deeper and more operationally active role for the Pentagon in the war”
9:09 PM · Feb 9, 2023
@Right_in_Virginia
Are you REALLY THAT FREAKING CLUELESS??????
If not,you should be ashamed of yourself for promoting the continuation of the spread of Communism.
"The Americans are controlling every shot",IF they are controlling every shot,in order to make sure nobody fires a US missile into Russia.
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We need a global restraining order against this jackass before he ignites WWIII
"NOW - Zelenskyy: "There is no alternative to Ukraine in NATO." (Video)
https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1626569697465454593
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We need a global restraining order against this jackass before he ignites WWIII
"NOW - Zelenskyy: "There is no alternative to Ukraine in NATO." (Video)
https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1626569697465454593
@Right_in_Virginia
Of course there is. A Neo-Soviet invasion of eastern Europe,followed by an invasion of mainland Europe after taking time to recover and re-arm.
To be followed by a joint invasion of China and the Neo-Soviet union of the US.
How is your Russia?
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It's blindingly obvious that we've been providing targeting information to the Ukrainians.
That is exactly as it should be, because it helps ensure that the munitions we provide to them are used as effectively as possible against the orcs, destroying their equipment, blasting their C3 and logistics, and killing their troops that currently are within Ukraine.
if the Russians don't like it, they can leave Ukraine. Otherwise, tough noogies because there's nothing they can do about it.
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@Right_in_Virginia
Of course there is. A Neo-Soviet invasion of eastern Europe,followed by an invasion of mainland Europe after taking time to recover and re-arm.
To be followed by a joint invasion of China and the Neo-Soviet union of the US.
How is your Russia?
If Ukraine falls, the Germans won't lift a finger to help defend NATO members to their east. More likely just cut their own deal with the Russians. After that deal, the Russians will go for the Baltics and Poland, and the isolationists here will say we shouldn't get involved. Our allies and other trying to resist Chinese expansionism will lose faith in us, and cut their own deals with China.
it'll take a decade or so for it all to fall out that way, but it'll happen. So arming and supporting Ukrainians willing to fight and die to stop Russia's westward expansionism seems by far the wisest and cheapest alternative.
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If Ukraine falls, the Germans won't lift a finger to help defend NATO members to their east. More likely just cut their own deal with the Russians. After that deal, the Russians will go for the Baltics and Poland, and the isolationists here will say we shouldn't get involved. Our allies and other trying to resist Chinese expansionism will lose faith in us, and cut their own deals with China.
it'll take a decade or so for it all to fall out that way, but it'll happen. So arming and supporting Ukrainians willing to fight and die to stop Russia's westward expansionism seems by far the wisest and cheapest alternative.
@Maj. Bill Martin
Yup!
It is a basic FACT of human nature that bullies WILL take everything they CAN take as long as you don't stand up to them and make them stop. It is their nature to do this.
Putin is just the head bully in a nation that has been ruled by bullies since 1917. He CAN'T just stop because if he does,the other bullies will remove him from power AND take everything he has stolen from the Russian people all his life.
IF he isn't both totally insane and desperate by this point,he is smuggling cash and other assets out of Russia and planning on getting himself and maybe his family out at the same time.
He either wins this war,or he dies if he stays in Russia. He may even be assassinated if he successfully escapes from Russia because he has made the professional bullies and murderers that have controlled Russia since 1917 look weak,and weakness is a FATAL flaw in dictators.
And that is what the whole damn Politiboro is,dictators.
If any of you can't wrap your minds around this factoid,consider them to be American Mafia gangsters. Same critters,same methods,same goals.
You can NOT reason with people like this. You can only put them in prison or kill them.
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If Ukraine falls, the Germans won't lift a finger to help defend NATO members to their east. More likely just cut their own deal with the Russians. After that deal, the Russians will go for the Baltics and Poland, and the isolationists here will say we shouldn't get involved. Our allies and other trying to resist Chinese expansionism will lose faith in us, and cut their own deals with China.
it'll take a decade or so for it all to fall out that way, but it'll happen. So arming and supporting Ukrainians willing to fight and die to stop Russia's westward expansionism seems by far the wisest and cheapest alternative.
:thumbsup:
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The complaints about the cost of supplying Ukraine with weapons seem so short-sighted to me. We have spent trillions over the decades to counter the threat of Russian aggression. This is our chance to degrade tremendously the threat posed by the Russian military, and without the losing the lives of American soldiers in the process. Weakening China's number one geopolitical ally should be a no-brainer.
On the flip side, successfully standing up to Russia will strengthen our bonds with our own allies, and make us that much more formidable a potential enemy to China.
That seems about as efficient a use of American military spending as I can imagine.
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Depose both Zelenskyy AND Putin, and put Trump in power. There. Problem solved.
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We need a global restraining order against this jackass before he ignites WWIII
You mean Putin? He is the only aggressor here. I'm not seeing Ukraine invading its neighbors.
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You mean Putin?
Sure. But don't leave Zelensky free to roam the Earth to fill the coffers of his black hole of corruption masquerading as a country.
Stop both of them.
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Sure. But don't leave Zelensky free to roam the Earth to fill the coffers of his black hole of corruption masquerading as a country.
Stop both of them.
Are you seriously equating the two. One exercising the freedom to roam the Earth - the other invading a sovereign country, committing massive war crimes, targeting civilians with banned weapons, the forced relocation of others, rapes, executions, torture? This is the moral equivalency you draw?
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Are you seriously equating the two. One exercising the freedom to roam the Earth - the other invading a sovereign country, committing massive war crimes, targeting civilians with banned weapons, the forced relocation of others, rapes, executions, torture? This is the moral equivalency you draw?
Apparently.