FBI Reportedly Sought FISA Court Warrant To Spy On Trump Campaign Officials
ZeroHedge, Jan 11, 2017, by Tyler Durden
A new report released today features both the FBI seeking to launch a surveillance operation against an active US presidential campaign, and the ultra-rare case of the FISA courts actually turning down an FBI request to conduct surveillance against somebody.
The report, originating at the Guardian, claims that the FBI had sought broad surveillance powers over four high-ranking members of President-elect Donald Trump’s campaign during the election, claiming them to have had contact with Russian officials.
The FISA court turned the request down, telling investigators they needed to narrow the request.
Though the four are not directly named in the report, it is related to claims in a dossier of Russia having substantial blackmail dirt on Trump, and that dossier centered heavily around accusations against a handful of Trump campaign personnel, including Carter Page, Paul Manafort, and Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, along with Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen, meaning some of them may well be among the targets.
More: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-11/fbi-reportedly-sought-fisa-court-warrant-spy-trump-campaign-officials
So why the scare quotes around "Wire tapped"?
We know he'll never provide proof. He just says crap like this to stir outrage among his snowflakes who are just as cowardly as he is.
Does he have proof??
Andrew C. McCarthy
"The idea that FISA could be used against political enemies always seemed far-fetched. Now it might not be."
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443768/obama-fisa-trump-wiretap
This is a serious accusation he better have proof!
Far fetched to who? I'm trying to wrap my head around the concept that someone this stupid is employed somewhere outside a supervised group work/rehab facility for the mentally damaged. Just how freaking stupid does one have to be to think a secret court with nearly unlimited power would NOT be used against political enemies by a tyrannical government? Far fetched? Really? Stevie Wonder would have to shield his eyes from the light of this one for cryin' out loud.
Not trying to be a wise ass saying this but...So? The concept isn't time sensitive. The same would have held 2000 years ago. And being an insider with so little grasp on the nature of power is if anything worse.
McCarthy is an insider. The article goes back to his belief of 1991.
This is a serious accusation he better have proof!@mystery-ak
@mystery-ak
I have said numerous times, every day for the next four years, Trump will do this; cause turmoil every day - he has lived his life like this. Remember, if he wasn't in the newspapers every day, he would use a fake name and call the newspapers to tell them what Trump was doing so there would be newspaper coverage about him. He cannot change. Also, someone pointed out to me, when something good happens to him (as the good speech he read to congress), he immediately does something to hurt himself. Who remembers the good speech now? It has gone by the wayside now with the Sessions problem and now this tweet that Obama wiretapped Trump tower. And, the tweet about Arnold, "Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't voluntarily leaving the Apprentice, he was fired by his bad (pathetic) ratings, not by me."
Trump is his own problem. He has a record of having a big mouth, a record of shooting from the hip.
Just look at how he accused Ted Cruz's father of conspiring to assassinate JFK. That's just the most egregious example.
So, like the boy who cried wolf... how do you expect people not to be skeptical of this latest accusation of his?
Like I said, he better have proof...
Trump is his own problem. He has a record of having a big mouth, a record of shooting from the hip.@SirLinksALot
Just look at how he accused Ted Cruz's father of conspiring to assassinate JFK. That's just the most egregious example.
So, like the boy who cried wolf... how do you expect people not to be skeptical of this latest accusation of his?
Just a day before the election last year, former Heat Street editor Louise Mensch reported that 'sources with links to the counter-intelligence community' confirmed that a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) had granted a FISA court warrant in October to monitor activities in Trump tower.
On Wednesday, a New York Times report said White House officials took efforts in the closing days of the Obama administration to analyze and spread information about Russian election interference, driven by a concern that the material might get buried by Trump.
Intelligence agencies rushed to analyze raw intelligence material about Russia connections, going over months-old material as the extent and possible motives of what the agencies say is Russian election hacking emerged.
Officials made efforts to ask specific questions at intelligence briefings as a way to get the information into the record and be archived for examination later.
In January, American law enforcement and intelligence agencies examined intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of Trump, according to the Times.
The FBI led the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, and the Treasury Department's financial crimes unit.
Investigators found no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing, the officials said.
One official said intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.
Someone in the intelligence/law enforcement bureaucracy had a applied for a FISA warrant to tap the Trump people in June, It was turned down. Renewed and granted in October, I think. The details are out there. That’s what he’s talking about.
Glad rump takes these allegations seriously, his latest tweet:
Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't voluntarily leaving the Apprentice, he was fired by his bad (pathetic) ratings, not by me. Sad end to great show
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/838016045222854656
This is a serious accusation he better have proof!
@mystery-ak
"In January, American law enforcement and intelligence agencies examined intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of Trump, according to the Times. The FBI led the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, and the Treasury Department's financial crimes unit."
_________
That is what I posted above that likely happened, that phone calls to/from the Russian Ambassador were intercepted and that included those going to and from Trump tower. If Trump people, including his son-in-law, were taking calls and making calls to the Ambassador, they were caught in this investigation.
The spying would require the approval of the FISA court. That revelation brought the idiots running with the claim that the FISA court allowed the wiretapping of MLK who died long before the formation of the FISA court.
excerpts:
more
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4281150/Trump-accuses-Barack-Obama-wire-tapping-phones.html
Far fetched to who? I'm trying to wrap my head around the concept that someone this stupid is employed somewhere outside a supervised group work/rehab facility for the mentally damaged. Just how freaking stupid does one have to be to think a secret court with nearly unlimited power would NOT be used against political enemies by a tyrannical government? Far fetched? Really? Stevie Wonder would have to shield his eyes from the light of this one for cryin' out loud.
Right. We already know damned well that the Obama administration had no qualms whatsoever re: using their agencies against anyone on the right via the IRS, EPA, etc. This is just one more example of that abuse of power.
excerpt
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/03/trump-goes-nuclear-with-claim-obama-wiretapped-him-during-election.php
@mystery-ak
"In January, American law enforcement and intelligence agencies examined intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of Trump, according to the Times. The FBI led the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, and the Treasury Department's financial crimes unit."
_________
That is what I posted above that likely happened, that phone calls to/from the Russian Ambassador were intercepted and that included those going to and from Trump tower. If Trump people, including his son-in-law, were taking calls and making calls to the Ambassador, they were caught in this investigation.
So, while the Trump Tower per se may not have been wire-tapped, communications between certain Trump people that occurred AT the Trump Tower were probably wire-tapped. It's a matter of semantics. Trump got it 'partially' right.
I just found these taped wires.
Its a vast left wing conspiracy I tell ya!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/iW8UwF2.jpg)
I just found these taped wires.
Its a vast left wing conspiracy I tell ya!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/iW8UwF2.jpg)
So, while the Trump Tower per se may not have been wire-tapped, communications between certain Trump people that occurred AT the Trump Tower were probably wire-tapped. It's a matter of semantics. Trump got it 'partially' right.
You think you're being funny. Pssst!
You're not.
Idiot boy rump needs to get his shit in order, lay out the evidence and clear accusations of wrongdoing instead of making wild claims on twitter like a moron. And then tweeting about celebrity apprentice a few minutes later.
He's funnier than you are.
Right. Functionally equivalent.
But the real issue here is High crimes under the color of authority .
Why do you feel the need to twist the discussion into attacks on other forum members? You know, it's ok, and even expected, that not everyone will agree with you 100% of the time. One of the signs of maturity is being able to listen to opposing viewpoints without responding with attacks on the other person.
Right. Functionally equivalent.
But the real issue here is High crimes under the color of authority .
@LonestarDream
Trump made it a different issue. If there's something to this, he might have blown it all by tweeting it out with no proof.
Why do you feel the need to twist the discussion into attacks on other forum members? You know, it's ok, and even expected, that not everyone will agree with you 100% of the time. One of the signs of maturity is being able to listen to opposing viewpoints without responding with attacks on the other person.
Of course, that is the real issue. And yet... the Trump haters are, as usual, attempting to turn this around and use it against Trump. The real threat isn't Trump and his personality quirks (or disorders, as some claim)....but the fact that the Obama regime abused power in such a manner as to rival the Soviet Russian era of tyranny over political opponents. That America dodged that bullet called Hillary, which would have meant more of the same of these threats, seems to have whooshed right over the Trump-haters heads.
People should be skeptical and he better be able to prove it. But that aside, does anyone seriously doubt that Obama/the libs in various departments wouldn't pull that? Havent we all long said that the Dems had 'files' etc on the GOP and thats why they always go back on their promises/dise with dems/fund Obamacare and the rest?
Well, there's your proof...even if there's no more. I have little doubt that it went well beyond just tapping the Ambassador...and if there is proof that Obama tapped anyone in the Trump campaign that is simply huge. A true threat to our democracy, and Trump SHOULD be shouting it from the rooftops. Its pathetic to read anti-Trump commentary over this issue....almost as a reflex. Rational criticism is one thing...reflexive and unsupported attacks on the president on such an is just another manifestation of the irrational nature of the still lingering NeverTrump idiocy.
Trump gives the speech of his life on Tuesday and apparently decides to sabotage it on Saturday. On Wednesday the majority of the people were looking at him as being Presidential and the stock market took off. I predict Monday's market will be a different story.
Does he think this whole thing is a reality show? I'm really starting to question his mental state.
Exactly. Given what I have been reading over the last couple of weeks and the coincidental timing of Valerie Jarret moving in with the Obama's a couple blocks away - it sure smells like the set-ups and minefields were laid in advance of the inauguration to pull off the coup that I think is actually ongoing as we read this board.
That the FISA court would be used as a political weapon was warned about a good time back, and if anything in Obama's tenure is self-evident - it is that he uses the courts and packed the Alphabets and the appointed command positions with radical Bolsheviks, loyal to their cause.
I don't like Trump, but the fact we have a silent coup being waged is hardly the stuff of tinfoil conspiracy sites like Alex Jones anymore.
I mean, Bush sat mute and silent during Obama's entire reign, and NOW he has decided to come forth to offer 'advice' that sides with the Democrats?????
Exactly!!!! Bingo.
Also get tired of having my voting record being misconstrued.
After Walker got out, First I was for Cruz, then I was for Trump/Cruz and now I am for Trump/Pence.
My posting history shows this.
And Xena, you might think Trump methods are quirky , but there a 'method to the madness '
ALL of the media will not be able to ignore, dissemble and lie about these events.
Exactly. Given what I have been reading over the last couple of weeks and the coincidental timing of Valerie Jarret moving in with the Obama's a couple blocks away - it sure smells like the set-ups and minefields were laid in advance of the inauguration to pull off the coup that I think is actually ongoing as we read this board.
That the FISA court would be used as a political weapon was warned about a good time back, and if anything in Obama's tenure is self-evident - it is that he uses the courts and packed the Alphabets and the appointed command positions with radical Bolsheviks, loyal to their cause.
I don't like Trump, but the fact we have a silent coup being waged is hardly the stuff of tinfoil conspiracy sites like Alex Jones anymore.
I mean, Bush sat mute and silent during Obama's entire reign, and NOW he has decided to come forth to offer 'advice' that sides with the Democrats?????
If the 'method to the madness' is to get the info out there quick (via Twitter) and get it out to millions of people, it's working. However, you can't deny that his tweeting behavior also gives the Trump-haters more ammo to use against him by virtue of the fact that it displays a temper that is at times, perhaps, uncontrollable by Trump himself. Not a good quality that people want in a CIC. He does need to tone it down a bit and just post/tweet the facts without the hyperbole adjectives.
He needs to channel Spock. :laugh:
Exactly. Given what I have been reading over the last couple of weeks and the coincidental timing of Valerie Jarret moving in with the Obama's a couple blocks away - it sure smells like the set-ups and minefields were laid in advance of the inauguration to pull off the coup that I think is actually ongoing as we read this board.
That the FISA court would be used as a political weapon was warned about a good time back, and if anything in Obama's tenure is self-evident - it is that he uses the courts and packed the Alphabets and the appointed command positions with radical Bolsheviks, loyal to their cause.
I don't like Trump, but the fact we have a silent coup being waged is hardly the stuff of tinfoil conspiracy sites like Alex Jones anymore.
I mean, Bush sat mute and silent during Obama's entire reign, and NOW he has decided to come forth to offer 'advice' that sides with the Democrats?????
Not that way at all. Obama undermined the compartmentalization of NSA collections AND the FISA court. BIG problems, because we are ALL wiretapped.
@LonestarDream
Just like the other day, you're not responding to my post, but replying with something unrelated.
I said, if there's something to this, he may have blown it by pre-emptively tweeting.
And.... what bothers and worries me the most isn't Trump and his pecularities of behavior....
but the fact that this mini-coup was, as you said, laid in advance and was well planned out by Obama's leftist regime. It's like a giant poisonous snake that is coiling and getting ready for the kill strike. Question is, what damage will it do when it strikes the final blow.
I'm beginning to think that these idiots on the left really want another civil war. That they actually ""think"" they would win.
And.... what bothers and worries me the most isn't Trump and his pecularities of behavior....
but the fact that this mini-coup was, as you said, laid in advance and was well planned out by Obama's leftist regime. It's like a giant poisonous snake that is coiling and getting ready for the kill strike. Question is, what damage will it do when it strikes the final blow.
This is a serious accusation he better have proof!
Instead of building on the bump he got the other night from his address to Congress to advance his agenda he's coming off as a loon..yet again. That's whats terrible.. :shrug:
Another keyboard warrior calling for civil war.
:silly:
(https://i.imgflip.com/108w74.jpg)
Another keyboard warrior calling for civil war.
:silly:
(https://i.imgflip.com/108w74.jpg)
And another reading-comprehension-challenged keyboard kibbitzer wowing us with that ....no, not dazzling brilliance, but baffling bullshit.
Read it again. I'm not calling for civil war. I'm pointing out that the left seems to be ginning up for it. Big difference.
Discernment - get some.
@mystery-ak
I have said numerous times, every day for the next four years, Trump will do this; cause turmoil every day - he has lived his life like this. Remember, if he wasn't in the newspapers every day, he would use a fake name and call the newspapers to tell them what Trump was doing so there would be newspaper coverage about him. He cannot change. Also, someone pointed out to me, when something good happens to him (as the good speech he read to congress), he immediately does something to hurt himself. Who remembers the good speech now? It has gone by the wayside now with the Sessions problem and now this tweet that Obama wiretapped Trump tower. And, the tweet about Arnold, "Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't voluntarily leaving the Apprentice, he was fired by his bad (pathetic) ratings, not by me."
Ayers and a number of the people who were in Obama's regime, war-gamed exterminating 40-60 million Americans back in the 1980's because they deemed us unable to be re-educated to accept the new order'.
Marxists do not care how many die in the bloodbath they incite - they only care about getting the bloodbath started, because death and misery are necessary to impose their utopia on societies they take over.
IMHO, the Trump team should keep quiet and go on the offensive. Open investigations and start bringing indictments against Dems. Let's start with Lois Lerner.
Problem is Trump has no credibility:
1) He had the greatest EC win
2) Ted Cruz's father murdered JFK
3) 3 million illegal votes (Yes there is problem with Fraud but nowhere on that scale and the idiot WON!)
4) purposefully lied to the media about immigration
This is what happens when you're a lying sack of monkey shit as Trump is.
Obviously, your post implies the you do NOT want a civil war.
I am responding to the core topic, not straw men. Also not looking to hold grudges about discussions that are out of scope, from thread to thread.
No, certainly not. But you have to wonder.... how come certain posters here always seem to twist and spin comments made by those that do not agree with them....and that do NOT hate Trump as they do. Like spinning what I said into "being for another civil war".
Oddly enough....it's a trait they have in common with another faction in US politics that I dare not mention...lol.
Your posts aren't discussion - just rants against other forum members.
Your posts aren't discussion - just rants against other forum members.
@LonestarDream
I don't hold grudges about something posted on a message board, so you can tamp that drama down.
I was pointing out that your habit is refusal to respond to things you don't like. Instead you deflect and resort to straw men, as you've done here. Yet again.
So you go right on and have fun.
@LonestarDream
Just like the other day, you're not responding to my post, but replying with something unrelated.
I said, if there's something to this, he may have blown it by pre-emptively tweeting.
Yep.
Catherine the wire taps are already proven. The FISA court first refused ( and it almost never refuses requests) and then if approved the requests.
Tweeting it is prepping the public. No one else will do that prepping so he must. Without the prepping, even mass murders would go barely noticed.
Where are they proven? I saw a bunch of articles with "unnamed sources" that go round and round.
That's the problem with Trump and his Tweets, he shoots off his idiot mouth before the facts are known.
Where are they proven? I saw a bunch of articles with "unnamed sources" that go round and round.
That's the problem with Trump and his Tweets, he shoots off his idiot mouth before the facts are known.
Ok. I'll ask.
How, pray tell, would you know whether or not the facts are already known BY HIM? Hmm???
Far fetched to who? I'm trying to wrap my head around the concept that someone this stupid is employed somewhere outside a supervised group work/rehab facility for the mentally damaged. Just how freaking stupid does one have to be to think a secret court with nearly unlimited power would NOT be used against political enemies by a tyrannical government? Far fetched? Really? Stevie Wonder would have to shield his eyes from the light of this one for cryin' out loud.
Read the links above. Myst pretty much nailed it down.
I am just tired of coming on here to read discussion about politics, and then having to wade through pages of posts directed against other forum members. But I believe there is a block feature here, so since you've demonstrated you have nothing insightful or interesting to add to the discussion, it's a simple fix.
I hope he has proof. Saying Arnold Schwarzenegger quit instead of being fired is a serious charge.
I wouldn't, I'm reacting to his tweets.
Rumpy the idiot boy made the claims, he (or Spicer) have to back them up.
LMAO!
That is incorrect.
He doesn't have to do a damned thing if he already knows and HAS the proof. All he has to do now is sit back and observe the results of an investigation.
I wouldn't, I'm reacting to his tweets.
Rumpy the idiot boy made the claims, he (or Spicer) have to back them up.
Problem is Trump has no credibility:
This is what happens when you're a lying sack of monkey shit as Trump is.
Well, there's your proof...even if there's no more. I have little doubt that it went well beyond just tapping the Ambassador...and if there is proof that Obama tapped anyone in the Trump campaign that is simply huge. A true threat to our democracy, and Trump SHOULD be shouting it from the rooftops. Its pathetic to read anti-Trump commentary over this issue....almost as a reflex. Rational criticism is one thing...reflexive and unsupported attacks on the president on such an is just another manifestation of the irrational nature of the still lingering NeverTrump idiocy.
I am just tired of coming on here to read discussion about politics, and then having to wade through pages of posts directed against other forum members. But I believe there is a block feature here, so since you've demonstrated you have nothing insightful or interesting to add to the discussion, it's a simple fix.
But we are talking about a body of corroborating evidence, including Powerline, Levin and McCarthy.
Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't voluntarily leaving the Apprentice, he was fired by his bad (pathetic) ratings, not by me. Sad end to great show
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)
March 4, 2017
What are you talking about? He made a claim, now he needs to provide evidence for said claim, period.
If you have proof of criminal activities, you are not required to publicly release that proof, WTF. In fact, it might even jeapardize the case and get you in hot water for doing so. So....
What the hell are YOU talking about?
Of course, that is the real issue. And yet... the Trump haters are, as usual, attempting to turn this around and use it against Trump. The real threat isn't Trump and his personality quirks (or disorders, as some claim)....but the fact that the Obama regime abused power in such a manner as to rival the Soviet Russian era of tyranny over political opponents. That America dodged that bullet called Hillary, which would have meant more of the same of these threats, seems to have whooshed right over the Trump-haters heads.
It seems like everyone else is taking this more seriously than the President is. After his 'bad' 'sad' tweets about it, he immediately blew it off and moved on to other subjects. He must not think it is that important. He changed the subject to The Apprentice.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't voluntarily leaving the Apprentice, he was fired by his bad (pathetic) ratings, not by me. Sad end to great show</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 4, 2017 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/838016045222854656)
If you have proof of criminal activities, you are not required to publicly release that proof, WTF. In fact, it might even jeopardize the case and get you in hot water for doing so. So....
What the hell are YOU talking about?
Arnold is comic relief. Also could be another device to draw a wider audience to the wire tapping ...
If you have proof of criminal activities, you are not required to publicly release that proof, WTF. In fact, it might even jeopardize the case and get you in hot water for doing so. So....
What the hell are YOU talking about?
This is a serious accusation he better have proof!
However, if he was anyone other than a politician, by making the accusation of criminal activity, he would be liable for any public accusations he made.
His best move here is something along the lines of 'I've instructed the justice department to investigate evidence of illegal wiretapping.. yadda yadda..' Not go on a tweet storm.
It's actuall checkers, and I think he's up to 13 now. The original 2 dimensions, plus 11 extra dimensions of stupidity.
I will reserve comment to see if Trump comes up with any proof.
And have Sessions lead the investigation? Lets have a look at the FISA requests AND the politics of the judges who approved the SECOND FISA wiretap.
Nailed it again, @XenaLee. The Trump haters want something very badly. I'm trying to figure out what it is. Do they want a re-run of the election, one where Hillary wins. Do they want Obama back? Hillary would have been an extension of Obama.
Both the Obama and Clintons machines were just great at digging dirt and blackmailing and they had the media on their side.
I thank God every day that Trump won and that he's done pretty well so far. I want that to continue.
I'd love to know what They want.
Exactly. What is in the warrant. Was the warrant properly administered. Was the tapping done under the limitations of the warrant. Was the information presented in the warrant request factual.
I actually believe Sessions would be more apt to follow this no matter which way it goes. He would be quick to point out illegalities or improper action, or he would defend an appropriate FISA wiretapping request if the case was solid and legitimate. Sessions doesn't seem to be a game player.
I want to see specifics. I see a bunch of articles that go round and round, with links to unnamed sources.
Rumpy little fingers felt he had enough evidence to make those idiotic tweets, so why can't he provide it?
Welp so far all I've seen is an article that links to another article that links to another article and so on and so forth until and the end of the linked article chain it seems this is all based on some unnamed sources.
The entire thing could be complete bullshit. Which makes Trump look like an even bigger idiot.
Nailed it again, @XenaLee. The Trump haters want something very badly. I'm trying to figure out what it is. Do they want a re-run of the election, one where Hillary wins. Do they want Obama back? Hillary would have been an extension of Obama.
Both the Obama and Clintons machines were just great at digging dirt and blackmailing and they had the media on their side.
I thank God every day that Trump won and that he's done pretty well so far. I want that to continue.
I'd love to know what They want.
The the above real clear politics link . Super focused.
1. June 2016: FISA request. The Obama administration files a request with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) to monitor communications involving Donald Trump and several advisers. The request, uncharacteristically, is denied.
4. October: FISA request. The Obama administration submits a new, narrow request to the FISA court, now focused on a computer server in Trump Tower suspected of links to Russian banks. No evidence is found — but the wiretaps continue, ostensibly for national security reasons, Andrew McCarthy at National Review later notes. The Obama administration is now monitoring an opposing presidential campaign using the high-tech surveillance powers of the federal intelligence services.
Exactly. What is in the warrant. Was the warrant properly administered. Was the tapping done under the limitations of the warrant. Was the information presented in the warrant request factual.
I actually believe Sessions would be more apt to follow this no matter which way it goes. He would be quick to point out illegalities or improper action, or he would defend an appropriate FISA wiretapping request if the case was solid and legitimate. Sessions doesn't seem to be a game player.
The the above real clear politics link . Super focused.
1. June 2016: FISA request. The Obama administration files a request with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) to monitor communications involving Donald Trump and several advisers. The request, uncharacteristically, is denied.
2. July: Russia joke. Wikileaks releases emails from the Democratic National Committee that show an effort to prevent Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) from winning the presidential nomination. In a press conference, Donald Trump refers to Hillary Clinton’s own missing emails, joking: “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.” That remark becomes the basis for accusations by Clinton and the media that Trump invited further hacking.
3. October: Podesta emails. In October, Wikileaks releases the emails of Clinton campaign chair John Podesta, rolling out batches every day until the election, creating new mini-scandals. The Clinton campaign blames Trump and the Russians.
4. October: FISA request. The Obama administration submits a new, narrow request to the FISA court, now focused on a computer server in Trump Tower suspected of links to Russian banks. No evidence is found — but the wiretaps continue, ostensibly for national security reasons, Andrew McCarthy at National Review later notes. The Obama administration is now monitoring an opposing presidential campaign using the high-tech surveillance powers of the federal intelligence services.
The the above real clear politics link . Super focused.
1. June 2016: FISA request. The Obama administration files a request with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) to monitor communications involving Donald Trump and several advisers. The request, uncharacteristically, is denied.
2. July: Russia joke. Wikileaks releases emails from the Democratic National Committee that show an effort to prevent Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) from winning the presidential nomination. In a press conference, Donald Trump refers to Hillary Clinton’s own missing emails, joking: “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.” That remark becomes the basis for accusations by Clinton and the media that Trump invited further hacking.
3. October: Podesta emails. In October, Wikileaks releases the emails of Clinton campaign chair John Podesta, rolling out batches every day until the election, creating new mini-scandals. The Clinton campaign blames Trump and the Russians.
4. October: FISA request. The Obama administration submits a new, narrow request to the FISA court, now focused on a computer server in Trump Tower suspected of links to Russian banks. No evidence is found — but the wiretaps continue, ostensibly for national security reasons, Andrew McCarthy at National Review later notes. The Obama administration is now monitoring an opposing presidential campaign using the high-tech surveillance powers of the federal intelligence services.
Based on what? The article names a bunch of "unnamed sources" as far as I can tell.
I thought unnamed sources were bad? Or do the Trumpanzees now believe everything they say now?
Show me the FISA order.
Good grief. You obviously have an agenda here.
(but we knew that)
Show me the FISA order.
You have a habit of these same postings about people in this forum. Are you going to use this same old argument every time Trump does or doesn't do something? Are we not allowed to question Trump just because we didn't want Hillary to win? I guess you give him a free pass because you thank God he won. I thank God for things that are right and reserve the right to make an assessment on everything.
The facts of the existence and disposition of the FISA orders are not in question.
I agree, Emjay.
I have no idea what they want, nor do I care what they want. I do, however, suspect that what they want is probably not anywhere near what I want for the future of this nation. I want a radical-leftist-free America.
I'm no Trump fan, but when I see BS I'm going to call it out.
I'm a truth fan. And these guys don't seem to really care about getting to the truth. It's all about 'destroying Trump' in their minds, apparently.
So you believe unnamed sources now? I thought Trump said those were bad?
Welp so far all I've seen is an article that links to another article that links to another article and so on and so forth until and the end of the linked article chain it seems this is all based on some unnamed sources.
The entire thing could be complete bullshit. Which would make Trump look like an even bigger idiot.
There are people here with vested intrest in maintaining the status quo just like there are those iin Washington.
Pardon my chiming in here....but....
Hell yes, you're allowed to "question Trump". It's a necessary function of a democratic society. As a matter of fact, that is ALL some of you do here, 24/7, 7 days a week. Question, bash and diss Trump.... even without valid reasons OR facts OR proof of any wrong-doing. Just based on your hatred of his tweets...lolol.
Conversely, we....who are more interested in the truth than in bashing Trump.... are allowed to question and critique your questions. It ain't rocket science. It's called a political discussion forum.
FISA wiretaps on a Presidential candidate? This is 3X worse than Watergate.
A worse prospect everyone should be prepared for. What if the warrants were properly administered. What if sufficient evidence was given for issuing the warrant even under the most non-objective guidelines? Could there be a backfire in this regarding the 'Russia' connection story, maybe not with Trump himself but we do know some in his circle, like Manafort did have ongoing relationships and deals with Russia. Not saying it would support the Dem's storyline, but it would give them talking points to keep it going.
It could be a set up.
I think that it is absolutely verifiable that he had Russian connections. Are they connections that would warrant anything like this? I don't know.
I can imagine it now, the Dems go up on the Hill with the line: See, the evidence of voter manipulation by the Russians was so severe, the main counter terrorism court, FISA issued a warrant to investigate this using rules established under the Bush administration.
If I were to write a fictional story along these lines with a highly manipulative left playing games, I couldn't come up with a better twist. They bait Trump to talk about the wiretapping then they turn it on him and show the evidence presented to the court that justified a legal warrant for wiretapping. In this case, it is less Watergate, more Gambino (legal, authorized wiretap brought down family).
Have to say I am laughing so hard right now. I will give credit where credit is due. I gave Trump credit for honoring the widow the other day but questioned his strength for not taking responsibility. I will admit when I am wrong. But I agree with you it is political discussion.
No, I don't like his tweets I think they make him look stupid. I can say that.
I must say, season 1 of the Trump presidency is very entertaining. Can't wait for season 2.
It could be a set up.
I can imagine it now, the Dems go up on the Hill with the line: See, the evidence of voter manipulation by the Russians was so severe, the main counter terrorism court, FISA issued a warrant to investigate this using rules established under the Bush administration.
They bait Trump to talk about the wiretapping then they turn it on him and show the evidence presented to the court that justified a legal warrant for wiretapping. In this case, it is less Watergate, more Gambino (legal, authorized wiretap brought down family).
Exactly!!!! Bingo.
Also get tired of having my voting record being misconstrued.
After Walker got out, First I was for Cruz, then I was for Trump/Cruz and now I am for Trump/Pence.
My posting history shows this.
And Xena, you might think Trump methods are quirky , but there a 'method to the madness '
ALL of the media will not be able to ignore, dissemble and lie about these events.
Excellent point, Bigun.... that those here that are in constant 'bash Trump' mode don't necessarily have to be on the side of the radical left. They can merely be establishment (RINO) wonks, as well.
Thanks for that reminder.
And I agree that many of his tweets are juvenile and in poor taste. But effective? Time will tell.
And I agree that many of his tweets are juvenile and in poor taste. But effective? Time will tell.
And I agree that many of his tweets are juvenile and in poor taste. But effective? Time will tell.
So now anyone who doesn't trust Trump is either a leftist or a RINO.
Fascinating conclusion based on nothing but feelings.
A President shouldn't be tweeting out accusations without proof and his history of lying creates skepticism in discerning people.
Where is the liberalism or protection of RINO's in that?
WHERE??
Excellent point, Bigun.... that those here that are in constant 'bash Trump' mode don't necessarily have to be on the side of the radical left. They can merely be establishment (RINO) wonks, as well.
Thanks for that reminder.
Trump was an abject imbecile to tweet about this situation. He just handed his enemies the rope they are going to hang him with - at least as far as public opinion shaped by the Media goes.
A decent Administrator does not publicly talk about legal or national security matters.
I know. I knew the history of Obama and Ayers even before Obama was elected. I had researched it well, along with all the other freepers out there. Too bad most Americans didn't bother to check them out, eh?
So now anyone who doesn't trust Trump is either a leftist or a RINO.
Fascinating conclusion based on nothing but feelings.
A President shouldn't be tweeting out accusations without proof and his history of lying creates skepticism in discerning people.
Where is the liberalism or protection of RINO's in that?
WHERE??
They won't be effective if they are completely untrue.
I actually despised Trump during the campaign. OTOH......
Position wise I give him an A- so far.
Still he is terrible embarrassment to himself, and this country. Mr. Trump..... Give the helm to Mike Pence.
Right and that's what is so good about Trump. His tweets (the one the carpers here call childish) garner attention. They cannot be ignored. The press has to deal with them and even in their attempts to dismiss and refute them, the public will see them.
Obama almost did it...he almost turned America into the country that he wanted. Big, clumsy Trump stopped him cold. Thank goodness.
Does he have proof??
Well....since the lamestream lying presshole media won't report on it (might make Obama look bad....shudder)....
perhaps it will turn out that his tweeting about it got the issue out to the public. I expect a public outcry among those that DID vote for Trump over this. Again, time will tell.
Love you, Catfish, but giving the helm to Mike Pence would be exactly what the evil empire wants. They succeeded in marginalizing Sessions because he caved to pressure.
Trump doesn't embarrass me at all. Go, Trump.
Not one news source huh? FOX practically worshipped Trump.
If the radical left manages to succeed in getting rid of Trump (big if)..... that would make Pence a lame duck president for the duration, and would probably embarass the GOP enough to ensure a Democrat victory in 2020 (which is, after all, their ultimate goal.....or one of them).
Pence would be ineffective at implementing the policies of the right that voters overwhelmingly voted FOR last November. The game would be in check until 2020, and then checkmate.
Not just no, but HELL NO to that.
And if he keeps doing his tweeting and putting possible Federal investigation at Jeopardy then he is the one heading for that very outcome. If people cannot trust in him and he puts his popularity above National Security watch it happen.
You have a habit of these same postings about people in this forum. Are you going to use this same old argument every time Trump does or doesn't do something? Are we not allowed to question Trump just because we didn't want Hillary to win? I guess you give him a free pass because you thank God he won. I thank God for things that are right and reserve the right to make an assessment on everything.
He's putting the issue 'out there' for the uninformed folks to read about. I don't think it has a thing to do with 'his popularity'.
Well....since the lamestream lying presshole media won't report on it (might make Obama look bad....shudder)....
perhaps it will turn out that his tweeting about it got the issue out to the public. I expect a public outcry among those that DID vote for Trump over this. Again, time will tell.
American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee, three of the officials said. The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election.
The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation.
Trump has cried 'wolf' enough with his tweets along with sensationalist bullshiite (Cruz' dad killed JFK) that even if he is right about this issue - a lot folks do not know what to believe and Trump has killed any grace of affording him the benefit of the doubt.
Wait just a gol dern minute. You can question Trump about minutia every day and I'm supposed to shut up.
You are allowed to question Trump but you leap like starving hyenas on every tiny thing that offends you.
What do you want for America? You have two choices now. Undermine Trump until he is somehow outed, or give him a tiny bit of respect for the good job he's done so far and give him a chance to continue on his goals to make America good again?
Trump was an abject imbecile to tweet about this situation. He just handed his enemies the rope they are going to hang him with - at least as far as public opinion shaped by the Media goes.
A decent Administrator does not publicly talk about legal or national security matters.
So what media is it that shapes my opinion that Trump is the same lying pathetic piece of trash he's always been.
Who do you blame for so called conservatives who fell in love with Trump? Just take a look at the way posters at TOS spoke about trump in years past compared to the way they worship him now. Even the owner has a long history of speaking of Trump as a lying liberal scumbag yet is king of the fan club today.
Yet somehow, those of us who haven't changed our opinions and didn't fall in love with Trump are the traitors. A shadowy media conspiracy somehow convinced me to hold firm to my principles and made me a secret democrat or establishment RINO.
I tell my GOP congressman that I want Trump investigated nearly every single day. If that makes me a traitor to the Kremlin owned GOP then so be it. If all they can do is try to hide behind the fact that the democrats do it too, then they have lost the final fight and America is finished and I'll be looking out for me alone.
Oh yes it does. Desired outcome public outrage. Doesn't belong on twitter. Serious matter.
FISA wiretaps on a Presidential candidate? This is 3X worse than Watergate.
Yeah....you're just not 'getting it', are you. It may not belong on Twitter, but if not on Twitter, where then? That's the problem. Lamestream media won't present the facts.... only the slur, slander and slant (lies).
I see this as a good thing IF Trump really has the goods on the Obama regime. He's getting the issue talked about and publicly discussed. And I don't blame Trump supporters if they are outraged over this. Every American 'should be' outraged, if Obama really did have Trump conversations wire-tapped. It sets a very dangerous new precedent (another Obama 'first') that every American should be aware and wary of.
Trump was an abject imbecile to tweet about this situation. He just handed his enemies the rope they are going to hang him with - at least as far as public opinion shaped by the Media goes.
A decent Administrator does not publicly talk about legal or national security matters.
FISA wiretaps on a Presidential candidate? This is 3X worse than Watergate.
Like the goods he had regarding Obama's birth??
I don't care if it is George Washington or Abe Lincoln.. If there are some questions about the Presidents regardless of they and party should be investigated...
Would you have approved in 2007 and 2008, legally authorized wiretaps on candidate Obama if there was evidence of collusion with Soros and the Muslim Brotherhood?
Not saying that is the case here, but we all seem to change what we'll accept simply because we like or don't like the parties involved.
If indeed this is a subtle coup taking place (which I have no doubts given the last couple of weeks), the Trump voters are not the ones the Leftists and Obama are targeting for manipulation by their comrades in the media. The Left is far more successful at manipulating information to serve their narrative among their emoting masses than Trump is among his faithful. Either Trump is oblivious to what is actually happening under his nose, or he is complicit in handing the parallel government being established with ammunition they are going to use to torpedo his entire Administration. Trump's supporters are not going to be able to stave off or prevent the sabotaging of their leader who may end up being stupid enough to kill his own legal recourses.
Trump has cried 'wolf' enough with his tweets along with sensationalist bullshiite (Cruz' dad killed JFK) that even if he is right about this issue - a lot folks do not know what to believe and Trump has killed any grace of affording him the benefit of the doubt.
It is a great mystery to me.
I feel the same way I felt about Trump 20 years ago yet somehow people who agreed with me 2 years ago now believe I'm a traitor who has been manipulated buy a shadowy deep state media conspiracy.
At the very least he shot what was his best week in office with that speech at the joint session to hell. He is his own worse enemy.
If there is any truth to the wire tapping and dots have been connected to Obama, then leak it to Friendly news media, and let them break it.
Like the goods he had regarding Obama's birth??
Read it again.....slowly. You're dealing in absolutes. My post said "can" be, not "are".
Less emotion, more logic, please. :laugh:
A reminder to those who were paying attention but ignored what happened.....
FBI ‘Granted FISA Warrant’ Covering Trump Camp’s Ties To Russia (Flashback Nov.7,2016)
SOURCE: https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-covering-trump-camps-ties-to-russia/ (https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-covering-trump-camps-ties-to-russia/)
EXCERPT:
Two separate sources with links to the counter-intelligence community have confirmed to Heat Street that the FBI sought, and was granted, a FISA court warrant in October, giving counter-intelligence permission to examine the activities of ‘U.S. persons’ in Donald Trump’s campaign with ties to Russia.
Contrary to earlier reporting in the New York Times, which cited FBI sources as saying that the agency did not believe that the private server in Donald Trump’s Trump Tower which was connected to a Russian bank had any nefarious purpose, the FBI’s counter-intelligence arm, sources say, re-drew an earlier FISA court request around possible financial and banking offenses related to the server. The first request, which, sources say, named Trump, was denied back in June, but the second was drawn more narrowly and was granted in October after evidence was presented of a server, possibly related to the Trump campaign, and its alleged links to two banks; SVB Bank and Russia’s Alfa Bank. While the Times story speaks of metadata, sources suggest that a FISA warrant was granted to look at the full content of emails and other related documents that may concern US persons.
The FBI agents who talked to the New York Times, and rubbished the ground-breaking stories of Slate ( Franklin Foer) and Mother Jones (David Corn) may not have known about the FISA warrant, sources say, because the counter-intelligence and criminal sides of the FBI often work independently of each other employing the principle of ‘compartmentalization’.
The FISA warrant was granted in connection with the investigation of suspected activity between the server and two banks, SVB Bank and Alfa Bank. However, it is thought in the intelligence community that the warrant covers any ‘US person’ connected to this investigation, and thus covers Donald Trump and at least three further men who have either formed part of his campaign or acted as his media surrogates. The warrant was sought, they say, because actionable intelligence on the matter provided by friendly foreign agencies could not properly be examined without a warrant by US intelligence as it involves ‘US Persons’ who come under the remit of the FBI and not the CIA. Should a counter-intelligence investigation lead to criminal prosecutions, sources say, the Justice Department is concerned that the chain of evidence have a basis in a clear warrant.
In June, when the first FISA warrant was denied, the FBI was reportedly alarmed at Carter Page’s trip to Moscow and meetings with Russian officials, one week before the DNC was hacked. Counter intelligence agencies later reported to both Presidential candidates that Russia had carried out this hack; Donald Trump said publicly in the third debate that ‘our country has no idea’ if Russia did the hacking. The discovery of the Trump Tower private Russian server, however, communicating with Alfa Bank, changed matters, sources report.
------------- CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE REST --------------------
The only problem with the above report which makes people tend to overlook it is the phrase "Two separate sources with links to the counter-intelligence community "
People are tired of unidentified "sources"
It is a great mystery to me.
I feel the same way I felt about Trump 20 years ago yet somehow people who agreed with me 2 years ago now believe I'm a traitor who has been manipulated buy a shadowy deep state media conspiracy.
We are the friendly media. Right here. Andy McCarthy and Levin arent exactly chopped liver either.
And let's not forget the RECORD of the Obama administration regarding these matters...
HERE's SOMETHING TO JOG EVERYONE's MEMORY:
http://www.npr.org/2013/05/14/183810320/justice-department-secretly-obtains-ap-phone-records (http://www.npr.org/2013/05/14/183810320/justice-department-secretly-obtains-ap-phone-records)
Justice Department Secretly Obtains AP Phone Records
The Associated Press is protesting what it calls a massive and unprecedented intrusion into its gathering of news. The target of that wrath is the U.S. Justice Department, which secretly collected phone records for several AP reporters last year. The AP says it's caught in the middle of a Justice Department leak investigation.
The scope of the Justice Department subpoenas is what gives David Schultz, a lawyer for AP, pause.
"It was a very large number of records that were obtained, including phone records from Hartford, New York, Washington, from the U.S. House of Representatives and elsewhere where AP has bureaus. It included home and cellphone numbers from a number of AP reporters," Schulz says.
It's not clear what the U.S. Attorney in Washington, D.C., is investigating. But the AP thinks it might be related to its story from May 2012 that described the CIA stopping a terrorist plot to plant a bomb on an airplane with a sophisticated new kind of device.
How that story came to be is the subject of a criminal leak investigation. But the AP says the Justice Department might now be flouting the First Amendment to try to build a case.
"This sort of activity really amounts to massive government monitoring of the actions of the press, and it really puts a dagger at the heart of AP's news-gathering activities," Schulz says.
The phone records don't include the substance of the calls — they're just a written tally of who called whom and how long the calls lasted.
Justice Department officials didn't want to talk on tape. But a spokesman for Ron Machen, the U.S. attorney in D.C., said he follows laws and Justice Department rules.
What are those rules?
CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE REST....
Aw, C'mon, @XenaLee . Every day on every thread when people object to Trump's bizarre and irresponsible behavior, some one, or more than that, accuses them/us of being liberals, "fake Conservatives" and now RINO's. That one is bizarre, IMO.
It's about time some discernment takes place and people are treated as individuals.
You, for instance, are not a "Trump lover" but defend him on certain things. You are not into groupthink, and neither are most of the people on this forum. There are Trump defenders regardless of what he does, or how abjectly stupid he is, there people who don't agree with anything he says or does, but the vast majority of the rest of this forum (including the owner) is somewhere in between.
It's time for the accusation that opposing Trump for being a juvenile is 'liberal," or that somehow we object to "draining the swamp" to stop.
They are stupid accusations with absolutely NO basis in fact.
Why do you feel the need to twist the discussion into attacks on other forum members? You know, it's ok, and even expected, that not everyone will agree with you 100% of the time. One of the signs of maturity is being able to listen to opposing viewpoints without responding with attacks on the other person.
Of course, that is the real issue. And yet... the Trump haters are, as usual, attempting to turn this around and use it against Trump. The real threat isn't Trump and his personality quirks (or disorders, as some claim)....but the fact that the Obama regime abused power in such a manner as to rival the Soviet Russian era of tyranny over political opponents. That America dodged that bullet called Hillary, which would have meant more of the same of these threats, seems to have whooshed right over the Trump-haters heads.
Aw, C'mon, @XenaLee . Every day on every thread when people object to Trump's bizarre and irresponsible behavior, some one, or more than that, accuses them/us of being liberals, "fake Conservatives" and now RINO's. That one is bizarre, IMO.
It's about time some discernment takes place and people are treated as individuals.
You, for instance, are not a "Trump lover" but defend him on certain things. You are not into groupthink, and neither are most of the people on this forum. There are Trump defenders regardless of what he does, or how abjectly stupid he is, there people who don't agree with anything he says or does, but the vast majority of the rest of this forum (including the owner) is somewhere in between.
It's time for the accusation that opposing Trump for being a juvenile is 'liberal," or that somehow we object to "draining the swamp" to stop.
They are stupid accusations with absolutely NO basis in fact.
During the Bush years, if any member typed something like "idiot boy rump" to describe the GOP President, he/she would be labeled a troll and thrown the hell out of here.
But evidently, it's just fine today......right, @mystery-ak ? **nononono*
Cripplecreek wrote:
"The spying would require the approval of the FISA court."
Unless the obama administration decided to ignore the court and "wiretap away" as they pleased.
Considering their arrogance elsewhere, does that really seem to be a remote possibility?
I'm wondering if this is the reason that valerie jarrett moved into obama's home?
Damage control? (more than obama could handle on his own?)
Or is she there to direct coming "events"?
Methinks this story is going to get very interesting.
I hope he has proof. Saying Arnold Schwarzenegger quit instead of being fired is a serious charge.Yeah, it sure is you can'rt go around making accusations about democrats like that!
I don't regard the people here who automatically bash Trump over every little thing as liberals.
They claim to be conservatives..
But they've lost perspective. Big picture truth: Trump has not been a bad president at all. He's appointed an excellent cabinet and nominated a fine supreme court justice.
He's planning to reduce and retire bad agencies like the EPA that sit around finding itty bitty spiders on a waterspout somewhere and deprive farmers and ranchers of the use of their lands.
He's supporting business and, guess what, business makes the jobs go around.
He is planning to build a wall and we need a wall and he's supporting agents who were hamstrung by the Obama administration so that they can deal properly with illegals who commit crimes.
That and a lot of other good stuff is on the plus side.
On the minus side, he's embarrassing the elegant and sophisticated here with his personal idiosyncracies and they are indulging themselves by acting superior and all that.
I'm not trying to muffle them .... I just want them to think occasionally.
Evidence both for the Trump Russian connection and the Wiretapping are both based on unnamed sources.
:shrug:
Do I have that right?
Problem is Trump has no credibility:
1) He had the greatest EC win
2) Ted Cruz's father murdered JFK
3) 3 million illegal votes (Yes there is problem with Fraud but nowhere on that scale and the idiot WON!)
4) purposefully lied to the media about immigration
This is what happens when you're a lying sack of monkey shit as Trump is.
That's probably because....
you're not on a "need to know" basis, WTF. Devastating...right? :silly:
Tweeting it is prepping the public. No one else will do that prepping so he must. Without the prepping, even mass murders would go barely noticed.
@LonestarDream I think your history parallels mine. I really, really wanted Ted Cruz to be president and I still hope he will someday.
For the situation we are in right now, I think we may need someone as mean and fearless as Trump.
TBR was founded in 2009....Obama was Prez.
It's bizarre, isn't it? Trump is the same unsavory, unethical man (or boy) that he was before he was elected, and much before that. Those of us who have been completely consistent, who have not changed what we think of him, nor what we believe to be important, are somehow not conservative any more, or worse because we haven't jumped on his populist bandwagon.
Methinks that it's not likely you and I who have been manipulated.
@Cripplecreek
Are you?
Wait just a gol dern minute. You can question Trump about minutia every day and I'm supposed to shut up.
You are allowed to question Trump but you leap like starving hyenas on every tiny thing that offends you.
Well, that offends me and I will continue to react to it in an appropriate manner. None of you still 'no-trumpers' have ever answered my question as to 'what do you want?'
Do you want to satisfy your egos and superiority by making posts against Trump?
Well, okay, then.
But what is your ultimate goal. Have you even thought it out?
What do you want for America? You have two choices now. Undermine Trump until he is somehow outed, or give him a tiny bit of respect for the good job he's done so far and give him a chance to continue on his goals to make America good again?
"(Cruz’s) father was with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald being, you know, shot. I mean the whole thing is ridiculous. What is this, right, prior to his being shot? And nobody even brings it up," Trump said on Fox and Friends on the morning of the critical Indiana primary. "What was he doing — what was he doing with Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before the death? Before the shooting? It’s horrible."
Is it true that Rafael Cruz "was with" Oswald before the assassination, or was Trump’s bombshell accusation itself ridiculous?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/03/donald-trump/donald-trumps-ridiculous-claim-linking-ted-cruzs-f/
I don't believe what Trump said can be said to say Cruz's father killed JFK; he just alluded to the Senior Cruz being with Oswald.
TBR was founded in 2009....Obama was Prez.
Trump is showing his supporters, the media, and fellow Republicans how to, and that he will fight back.
So called Republicans, even some that refer to themselves as "conservatives," have asked for "fight back."
Obama's administration wiretapped Trump. Trump is taking a firm stand.
It has been so long since there was anybody on the political right that would do this, they don't know how to react.
A lot of so called Republicans are participants in the establishment, first and foremost; the very group Trump promised to take on.
If you can't stand to watch the sausage being made, then look away. Nobody said it would be pretty or genteel.
Noticing even GW Bush come out from hiding, reminds us about how meekly he set things up for Obama, by his passivity (open borders, too).
The fact is there are GW Bush, Jeb Bush, Linda Graham, John McCain, Bill Kristol and others who are fighting for their place at the table of power.
They want to protect the status quo, for their lobbyist interests. And they won't let go easily.
The fight continues, daily.
I don't believe what Trump said can be said to say Cruz's father killed JFK; he just alluded to the Senior Cruz being with Oswald.
FLASHBACK: Obama Administration Secretly Wiretaps Journalists
TruePundit, Mar 4, 2017
THE DEPARTMENT OF Justice secretly obtained phone records for reporters and editors who work for the Associated Press news agency, including records for the home phones and cell phones of individual journalists, according to the AP, in what the agency characterized as “serious interference with AP’s constitutional rights to gather and report the news.”
The records, covering all of April and May 2012, were seized by the DoJ earlier this year and covered more than 20 separate phone lines. The records listed outgoing calls for both the work and personal phone numbers of individual reporters, as well as the general phone lines for AP bureaus in New York, Washington and Hartford, Conn., and a main number used by AP reporters in the House of Representatives. – READ MORE
http://truepundit.com/flashback-obama-administration-secretly-wiretaps-journalists/
Bigun wrote:
"There are people here with vested intrest in maintaining the status quo just like there are those in Washington."
Did you hit a homerun with this post.
Skimming through this thread, I can't help but thinking there are "agents from the other side" registered right in this forum! heehee
Again I'll submit for consideration these recent events:
- a $60 million "advance" to the obamas (ostensibly for yet-to-be-written books). What is this REALLY for?
- valerie jarrett's return to the obama household. Why is she needed there?
Nitpicking, IMO.
We've been together a helluva lot longer than TBR....and none of us would have dreamed to speak about our own Party's leader.
It's bullshit.
People are allowed to speak their minds here...if you suffer a personal attack report it.
Remember this? It seems wiretapping is a part of Obama's MO:
Song dedication.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCy7lLQwToI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCy7lLQwToI)
Disagreeing with or criticizing Trump is one thing, musiclady. But the constant, daily, 24/7 bullshit bashing, which is what I was addressing, reeks of a hidden agenda. You can't deny it.
And again, I merely was thanking Bigun for reminding us that there are folks HERE probably with an agenda and ulterior motives. Don't make it into something it's not. Don't misconstrue what I said. That's not nice.
I don't forget much. Some people here have a REAL problem with target identification. The enemy is the MARXIST left in this country! NOT the Trump administration!
I don't regard the people here who automatically bash Trump over every little thing as liberals.
They claim to be conservatives..
But they've lost perspective. Big picture truth: Trump has not been a bad president at all. He's appointed an excellent cabinet and nominated a fine supreme court justice.
He's planning to reduce and retire bad agencies like the EPA that sit around finding itty bitty spiders on a waterspout somewhere and deprive farmers and ranchers of the use of their lands.
He's supporting business and, guess what, business makes the jobs go around.
He is planning to build a wall and we need a wall and he's supporting agents who were hamstrung by the Obama administration so that they can deal properly with illegals who commit crimes.
That and a lot of other good stuff is on the plus side.
On the minus side, he's embarrassing the elegant and sophisticated here with his personal idiosyncracies and they are indulging themselves by acting superior and all that.
I'm not trying to muffle them .... I just want them to think occasionally.
Thank you, sir!
Neither is your calling my rational thoughts, emotional, not logical.
So I guess we're even with the "not nice" comments, eh? ^-^
Some folks just seem to take a criticism of Trump as a personal affront, and lash back at the person making the comment.
There's a lot of that going on around here. Just lurk sometime and see how often it happens.
(Hint...... often).
OK folks, let's focus on the issue at hand -- EVIDENCE ( present or absent ) that :
1) Obama wiretapped Trump
2) Trump was in cahoots with the Russians.
Let's not allow this thread to devolve into a name calling war.
Whether one is a Trump supporter or not is beside the point.
And also let us not forget (as you wonderfully reminded us):
1) Obama wiretapped AP
2) Obama funded and armed ISIS, and gave Iran a wonderful window for Nukes.
Notwithstanding the decades-long love affair and treasonous dalliances the Left has had with the Soviets at the height of the cold war.
I find it funny that NOW Trump in Cahoots with the Russkies is a 'bad thing'.
I think they are just jealous that maybe Trump stole their friends in the Kremlin.
Again I'll submit for consideration these recent events:
- a $60 million "advance" to the obamas (ostensibly for yet-to-be-written books). What is this REALLY for?
- valerie jarrett's return to the obama household. Why is she needed there?
It got nasty all right. We all need to let this go. Cruz has been supporting Trump and Sessions.
Kelly Ann worked for both, so can we.
Cruz is a kicked puppy that whimpers when the master pulls the string.
Trump is now whining and claiming "McCarthyism!". This is not "fighting back", this is insanity.;
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/837989835818287106
:shrug:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
He's coming off as mentally ill.
Sure looks that way.
Noticing that Obama was a fascist dictator comes off as mentally ill?
I have no doubt that Obastard would have done something like that. I've been keeping up with what the criminal affirmative action fool has been doing, and he not only has no respect for the law, he doesn't even comprehend it.
I don't think Trump is coming off as mentally ill for noticing Obama was a rat-bastard who belongs in prison. I'm thinking that people who obsess on finding fault with everything Trump does are the ones coming off as having some sort of mental issue.
Cruz is a kicked puppy that whimpers when the master pulls the string.
Trump is now whining and claiming "McCarthyism!". This is not "fighting back", this is insanity.;
Cruz is a kicked puppy that whimpers when the master pulls the string.
Trump is now whining and claiming "McCarthyism!". This is not "fighting back", this is insanity.;
Will Trump end up the first President 25th'd out?
Insanity is not recognizing what is actuall going on here. The MARXIST left in this country is in danger of losing a lot of what they have spent an entire century putting in place and they are going to pull out ALL the stops, both legal and otherwise, to prevent that from happening!
Will Trump end up the first President 25th'd out?
Insanity is not recognizing what is actuall going on here. The MARXIST left in this country is in danger of losing a lot of what they have spent an entire century putting in place and they are going to pull out ALL the stops, both legal and otherwise, to prevent that from happening!
Bigun,
I think Trump would have an easier time preventing the left from stopping Trump if Trump stopped doing stuff like this. I actually think this is a huge distraction because it makes Trump look mentally ill IMO, and the story becomes "Trump is mentally ill" rather than "Trump is working back the left's agenda".
So tell me how e is supposed to get this on a front burner without doing what he is doing given the current forces all aligned against him?
Just hold a press conference and tell us he actually has documented evidence. He doesn't have to show us the evidence per the rules of discovery/disclosure per an investigative process.
He doesn't have to make catcalls from the back row. He is the f-ing POTUS, for hell's sake.
@sinkspur . @Weird Tolkienish Figure . @Cripplecreek
Hmmm. I wonder sometimes.
Exactly.
Reagan showed how a Statesman does it.
You don't tweet every stupid thing that comes into your head out into the universe when you are the freaking President.
Well obviously.... Trump does!
The pertinent question is.... what now? If Trump's support wanes NOW.... he will be less able to go after Obama and the rats for what they've already done and are still doing to destroy his presidency. We can NOT allow that to happen. Can't let the left win on this. That's how I see it.
(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17022363_10155207945016802_3464347236823241415_n.jpg?oh=d9912db914a76a7cf8ebdffef130404d&oe=5937EE6D)
Well here is a idea...
Trump should stop tweeting...
Was he previously on the trump train?
And Michael Reagan is one of Trump's reluctant supporters.
Something the true believers don't seem capable of grasping is the fact that it is actually possible for Trump to lose support.
Well obviously.... Trump does!
The pertinent question is.... what now? If Trump's support wanes NOW.... he will be less able to go after Obama and the rats for what they've already done and are still doing to destroy his presidency. We can NOT allow that to happen. Can't let the left win on this. That's how I see it.
My prediction: Obama is going to appear in interviews and say that he didn't have anything to do with any wiretaps of Trump, and that if Trump people were wiretapped it would be because of an FBI investigation. The media will ask Trump for proof, none of which will be forthcoming, and once again Trump will look like a fool with zero self-discipline for tweeting this out. For the record, I hope your prediction is the correct one, but unfortunately, I think it will be mine.
"Supporting Trump" does not mean that you can't be critical of him when he does something stupid. I supported his cabinet picks, his SCOTUS nomination, even his pause in immigration (although I thought the EO was poorly authored).
But the early morning, unfiltered tweets need to stop. The blind loyalists like to ascribe some genius to these tweets, but clearly his advisors feel the same way I do about them because they now only go out when they are asleep or otherwise occupied. The man is repeatdely shooting himself in the foot.
None of you still 'no-trumpers' have ever answered my question as to 'what do you want?'
Porchlight asks--and it looks plausible given the lickspits in the press: What if....
....the entire Trump-Russian narrative....
....was dreamed up and peddled to the media....
....simply as a ruse to get the FISA warrant....
....to monitor the Trump campaign?
Posted by: Porchlight
I find myself wishing trump would use a more subtle approach. Trying to be more outlandish than the left is too outlandish even for me.
Exactly.
Reagan showed how a Statesman does it.
You don't tweet every stupid thing that comes into your head out into the universe when you are the freaking President.
Ruth Papazian shared a link.
25 mins
Here's a plausible scenario:
1. In October, Loretta Lynch--who owes her career to both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama--goes to a FISA court judge who was appointed by Obama and without much fuss or muss--formerly known as "evidence"--gets a warrant to get taps on all the phones at Trump Campaign Headquarters in Trump Tower.
2. There is absolutely no oversight on the FISA court, and when FBI director James Comey gets wind of the Watergate-type operation, he retaliates by divulging the info about the additional emails found on Anthony Weiner's laptop.
3. DOJ is desperate to get the goods on Trump to counteract the damage to Hillary's campaign, but comes a cropper. The taps yield nada. Under increasing pressure in the media and by the White House, Comey tries to mitigate his effect on Hillary's campaign by informing Congress that no new information was found on the laptop.
4. Hillary spectacularly loses the election, and Obama knows his "legacy" will go poof! so the wiretaps are left in place so that whenever a member of the Trump transition team talks to or meets with anyone--including Russian officials with whom he or she will soon be interacting in their offical government capacity--the interaction is recorded.
5. Though the law requires names of any Americans recorded in FISA court-authorized taps be redacted before transcripts are circulated to intelligence agencies, somehow this does not happen and transcripts are leaked to the media by unnamed sources.
6. Meanwhile, anti-Russian fervor is whipped to a fever pitch in the media so that the most banal conversations will take on a sinister twist.
7. The "discredited" official is hounded by the press, while there are calls for his or her resignation by Dem leadership and by an army of media surrogates on cable news shows and on social media.
How does any of this differ from a typical KGB operation? How is Obama different from Putin? What additional proof is needed that we are living in a police state?
And we are already starting to see repercussions in our already shaky relationship with Russia--thanks to Hillary's incompetence-- as a result of this witch hunt.
This thing is starting to mushroom.
This may come as a shock to you....but...
not everyone has access to Fox News...ie cable TV.
Most folks will never hear about what's really going on in this country unless they listen to talk radio and/or participate in forums such as this one.
It's a fact.
None of you still 'no-trumpers' have ever answered my question as to 'what do you want?'
Wait just a gol dern minute. You can question Trump about minutia every day and I'm supposed to shut up.
You are allowed to question Trump but you leap like starving hyenas on every tiny thing that offends you.
Well, that offends me and I will continue to react to it in an appropriate manner. None of you still 'no-trumpers' have ever answered my question as to 'what do you want?'
Do you want to satisfy your egos and superiority by making posts against Trump?
Well, okay, then.
But what is your ultimate goal. Have you even thought it out?
What do you want for America? You have two choices now. Undermine Trump until he is somehow outed, or give him a tiny bit of respect for the good job he's done so far and give him a chance to continue on his goals to make America good again?
If Trump cannot control his stupid tweets and mouth - he will assist the entire 'swamp' in drowning him in one scandal after another - manufactured or not - and the people who voted for him simply to stop Hillary by and large are going to get tired of it.
Reagan got rolled by Tip O'Neill several times.
Well, Reagan didn't, but then there was no Twitter in those days. Reagan occasionally spoke past the media, and perhaps if he had Twitter he might have done it more often.
Of course Reagan had a more mature and reasonable electorate than what we have today. We approach "Idiocracy" with each passing year. Trump is perhaps speaking to the electorate at the level that is appropriate to this group.
Bigun,
I think Trump would have an easier time preventing the left from stopping Trump if Trump stopped doing stuff like this. I actually think this is a huge distraction because it makes Trump look mentally ill IMO, and the story becomes "Trump is mentally ill" rather than "Trump is working back the left's agenda".
Clarice Feldman
12 mins ·
@Bigun
I have been reading Scott Adams (The Creater of the "Dilbert" Cartoon) blog commentary regarding "Master Persuader." He makes very good arguments that Trump's outlandishness is "clever like a fox" and that there is a "method to his madness."
Trump is a fool who seems to be right most of the time when the wise men all end up being wrong.
At some point you have to ask yourself, who are the real fools in these contests?
Well, Reagan didn't, but then there was no Twitter in those days. Reagan occasionally spoke past the media, and perhaps if he had Twitter he might have done it more often.
Of course Reagan had a more mature and reasonable electorate than what we have today. We approach "Idiocracy" with each passing year. Trump is perhaps speaking to the electorate at the level that is appropriate to this group.
@Bigun
Well, it does have the instant effect of putting a bug in everyone's ear. And I get the point of the need for haste. Shoot first and ask questions later.
IMO, what we are seeing is a coup d'etat. No parsing. A flat out coup d'etat by the left which includes the partisan media.
The problem is convincing the sheeple of this. Especially since more than half are unwitting participants. Yeah, maybe trump has the big picture in hand. Maybe not. His personality points to not. Not listening to the people around him may actually cause his end. I hope not.
Woke up in the morning
Tweetin' like that
Don't need to worry
Wife ain't getting fat
Sad!
My wires were tapped
My powers were sapped
Taco Bowl woke me up
My tires were flat
Took the chopper to work
Chew on that, chump
Taco Bowl woke me up
Chatted with Putin,
Patted Duterte on the back,
Bashed some media,
Just to get some attention,
Taco Bowl woke me up
IMO, what we are seeing is a coup d'etat. No parsing. A flat out coup d'etat by the left which includes the partisan media.
The problem is convincing the sheeple of this. Especially since more than half are unwitting participants.
For those who think some of us are waiting to pounce. Who hate Trump. Are RINOs, etc. etc.Like the last eight years.
For the record, I happen to love my country, love the protections of the constitution and the bill of rights.
I don't want to live in a dictatorship, run by a man totally without a moral compass.
This is a serious accusation he better have proof!
Like the last eight years.
I sure hope that he has proof that the Obama Administration illegally misused the US intelligence apparatus to try to hurt the Trump campaign.
Right.
Which is why some of us fought so hard to NOT nominate Trump. We didn't want four more like the last eight.
Make it the last 16 years.
Will Trump end up the first President 25th'd out?
@mystery-akTrump is just verbalizing what we've all suspected about Obama. Of course Trump thought that Cruz's father shot JFK....so he's not always right...LOLOLOLOL.
This is an extremely serious accusation. Proof to back up this accusation needs to be revealed and/or acted upon very soon (announcements of grand jury hearings and/or arrest warrants being issued).
One thing I’ve not seen mentioned anywhere yet, is that if Trump has no proof for this twitter accusation, such an extremely false accusation may rise to the level of an impeachable offense…
One very interesting thing I have noticed though… There has actually been very little in response from the Dems or the liberal “news” media about this accusation. Obama did not even respond (sent a spokesman instead to make the denial). I would have expected a $h!tstorm of derision and ridicule to have exploded. Maybe they already know that Trump is telling the truth.
Trump’s tweet accusation may be a huge tipping point in US political history. If his accusation is true, it would be devastating to the Democrat Party, and may just spell the end of it. But, if Trump has no proof, it will just backfire in spectacular fashion, possibly ruining his presidency beyond recovery, and even resulting in him being impeached, convicted, and removed from office. Will 4MAR2017 go down in history?
I’m not a fan of Trump, I did not even vote for him. But, I sure hope that he has proof that the Obama Administration illegally misused the US intelligence apparatus to try to hurt the Trump campaign.
Not gonna happen.
The vast majority in the country have a fatal case of Normalcy Bias. They are not going to see it - even when it is staring at them in the face.
Maybe AFTER the fact, when the consequences of failing to arrest it when it was possible to stop it - they will acknowledge it.
But not before then.
EXCELLENT post!!! There was not one poster here who was more anti-Trump than i all the way through the general election. I thought there were better choices avaliable but all that is behind us now and Donald J. Trump IS IN FACT president. There are many things arrayed against him to begin with so I'm going to refrain from bashing him until he does something truly worthy of it. IMHO that has not occured to date.
Insanity is not recognizing what is actuall going on here. The MARXIST left in this country is in danger of losing a lot of what they have spent an entire century putting in place and they are going to pull out ALL the stops, both legal and otherwise, to prevent that from happening!
That is true. Like it or not, Trump and his advisors are fighting back. If it is not as pretty and genteel as one wishes it was, consider the fine job that Presidents McCain and Romney offered.
If one cannot stand to watch, avert your eyes. Let the ones willing to fight, do their best.
Yep! they may be fighting ugly but at least they are fighting. There are people here who act like they were more disappointed with the election results than Hillary was.
Considering the demon forces opposing Trump and trying to regain power, we may be lucky that the candidate I wanted least won. He may be the man for these times.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6GsUnXVAAALGX0.jpg)
Where's the link to this @Weird Tolkienish Figure ? Knowing the source would be helpful.
Obama will be proved a word parsing lawyer, in keeping with Clinton's earlier justification.
"It all depends on the meaning of is."
The WH didn't ask for it, but somebody sure did.
My prediction:
Obama has:
Plausible deniability
Plausible deniability is the ability for persons to deny knowledge of or responsibility for any damnable actions committed by others because of a lack of evidence that can confirm their participation, even if they were personally involved in or at least willfully ignorant of the actions. In the case that illegal or otherwise disreputable and unpopular activities become public, high-ranking officials may deny any awareness of such acts in order to insulate themselves and shift blame onto the agents who carried out the acts, as they are confident that their doubters will be unable to prove otherwise. The lack of evidence to the contrary ostensibly makes the denial plausible, that is, credible, although sometimes it merely makes it unactionable. The term typically implies forethought, such as intentionally setting up the conditions to plausibly avoid responsibility for one's actions or knowledge. In some organizations, legal doctrines such as command responsibility exist to hold major parties responsible for the actions of subordinates involved in heinous acts and nullify any legal protection that their denial of involvement would carry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability
No doubt he has plausible deniability...but the reply from his spokesman gives away the game. CLEARLY, Obama's Justice Department WAS tapping Trump Tower. And deny direct knowledge if he will, but he cannot escape being the Chief Executive...liable for any and all significant actions of his subordinates. This was no "rogue" actor at Justice, this was Obama political appointees acting under his purview...though almost certainly indirectly. But that "indirectness" is no shield, the buck sits squarely at the feet of Mr. Obama as president (former). The media, of course, will not play it that way but Trump...and by extension the rest of us...must hold to that.
But I still see no upside for the future of our country in aligning ourselves with Obama, Hillary and most of the Media who devote every minute to try and get rid of Trump..
Not supporting Trump is not the same as aligning with Obama, Hillary and the media.
If and when such a document is made public - assuming it exists of course - it would be Trump, once again, that gets the last laugh.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-04/obama-advisor-rhodes-wrong-president-can-order-wiretap-and-why-trump-may-have-last-l
Lock up as many of the old DOJ people as we can.
@truth_seeker
@Right_in_Virginia
It would be awesome to see people to cheer on credible evidence that the new President is a possible criminal.
That is true. Like it or not, Trump and his advisors are fighting back. If it is not as pretty and genteel as one wishes it was, consider the fine job that Presidents McCain and Romney offered.
If one cannot stand to watch, avert your eyes. Let the ones willing to fight, do their best.
Not supporting Trump is not the same as aligning with Obama, Hillary and the media.
Why do you want that?
They would destroy Pence in 10 nanoseconds.
Who are you pining to take the presidency then?
If Obama got a court ordered wiretap on trump but it was legal and Obama followed all the proper channels, what would you lock up Obama and his DOJ for, exactly?
If Obama got a court ordered wiretap on trump but it was legal and Obama followed all the proper channels, what would you lock up Obama and his DOJ for, exactly?
An inanimate object would be preferable.
"They" who? "They" have no power, Trump is President and a Congressional majority is toadying up to him. If he started acting like a real President than someone who wants to ride an ICBM, he's bullet-proof.
Trump and his supporters are the ones who make him look weak and victimized. That is a lot more damaging than anything the left has done.
An inanimate object would be preferable.
"They" who? "They" have no power, Trump is President and a Congressional majority is toadying up to him. If he started acting like a real President than someone who wants to ride an ICBM, he's bullet-proof.
Trump and his supporters are the ones who make him look weak and victimized. That is a lot more damaging than anything the left has done.
Wire tapping political opponents under color of authority.
Nixon was a piker.
I don't want that. I was responding to that. Somehow a FISA ruling that credible evidence exists to justify a wiretap would be 'good news" to Trumpers.
GET ON WITH IT. Pass your agenda and stop whining like little bitches.
:shrug: He got the court's approval. Must have been probably cause.
Well, the attempt by obama failed, apparently according to Ryan.
Now who is reading in?
:shrug: He got the court's approval. Must have been probably cause.
Well, the attempt by obama failed, apparently according to Ryan.
I see a machination orchestrated by obama aka jarrett to do as much damage as possible to the next POTUS. I would make the same bet if it was POTUS Cruz. I see the exact same crap coming from the left with someone other than trump. How that other POTUS handled it would probably be a lot different from the way trump is handling it.
He got the court's approval. Must have been probably cause.
You need to recall that Obama stacked the Federal bench with over 40% of his ideological comrades.
Which one of his lackeys was on the FISA court to approve it? (who made them judges, not who put them on FISA)
as of 19 May 2016)
Rosemary Collyer District of Columbia ... (George W Bush)
Jeb Boasberg District of Columbia .....................(Barack Obama)
Rudolph Contreras District of Columbia .............(Barack Obama)
Anne Conway Middle District of Florida ..............(George HW Bush)
Raymond Dearie Eastern District of New York (Ronald Reagan)
Claire Eagan Northern District of Oklahoma ......(George W Bush)
Martin Feldman Eastern District of Louisiana (Ronald Reagan)
James Jones Western District of Virginia ........(Bill Clinton)
Michael Mosman District of Oregon ------(George W Bush)
Thomas Russell Western District of Kentucky (Bill Clinton)
Dennis Saylor District of Massachusetts ......(George W Bush)
Donald J. TrumpVerified account[/size][/font] [/size]@realDonaldTrump[/size][/size] Follow[/b][/color]
More
[/size]Is it true the DNC would not allow the FBI access to check server or other equipment after learning it was hacked? Can that be possible?[/color]
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1980294624/DJT_Headshot_V2_bigger.jpg)
Dunno what to make of this latest Tweet, did the DNC not allow the FBI to be checked after it was hacked?
Trump needs to just move on from this IMO.
Why? Last I knew it was good practice to investigate possible wrong doing. Sorta why the FBI exists. If the DNC said no, what is their legal basis to stop an FBI investigation? What would that look at their servers have found?
Is it because this is Trump? Yea I think it is. Well Trump or not, it should be investigated to conclusion one outcome or another.
Investigate it, sure. I'm all for that. But move on. Stop Tweeting about it.
Had he not tweeted about it, we would not know that Obama even did it. Which of course, we now do. Tweeting is how the modern Idiocracy communicates. Sucks, but it just is. It is not going to stop, nor is he. So we all may as well get used to it.
It would have been nice if Trump had assembled a modicum of evidence before announcing. Now he just looks like a fool.
How? They had to admit they tapped him.
Where did they admit they tapped him?
Well offhand we can start with a thread you posted on
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,252330.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,252330.0.html)
Then go through several other sources if we really have to waste time.
Unnamed sources? I thought those were bad?
Do you really wanna play games with me? You know it always ends badly for you.
Do you have anything other than unnamed sources?
Sure. We know that Teump was tapped.
Seems some on this site have taken the Trump tactic as a way to discredit anyone with deep concern about the behavior of the president.
You don't approve........then the personal attacks begin. You are a hater, a RINO, a liberal, a Hillary supporter, a leftists, etc. And the name calling goes on.
Suddenly the demand is that even tho you might have been a NEVER TRUMP person, now you MUST support the president.
Evidently name calling and insults well learned at FR are now everyday comments here.
They are nothing more than a bunch of gutless cowards and worms.
Et tu, Brute? :laugh:
How? Show me proof from a named source.
From the BBC. If thats not enough for you, you'll simply reject anything else I provide so best of luck defending a losing position.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427)
"Lawyers from the National Security Division in the Department of Justice then drew up an application. They took it to the secret US court that deals with intelligence, the Fisa court, named after the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. They wanted permission to intercept the electronic records from two Russian banks.
Their first application, in June, was rejected outright by the judge. They returned with a more narrowly drawn order in July and were rejected again. Finally, before a new judge, the order was granted, on 15 October, three weeks before election day."
Where did they admit they tapped him?
Unnamed sources again, and you're saying that the dossier on Trump having prostitutes urinate on a bed is true?
Interesting.
I personally don't doubt that he was spied on.
I'm saying you are taking the denials of the Obama admin as true while denying everything that we know showing otherwise.
I personally don't doubt that he was spied on. Any man with the kind of ties Trump has is going to under surveillance at some point and probably by multiple entities and governments. And let's not forget, Trump is a man who had ties to Muammar Gaddafi. Trump would have to be a moron to think that his ties to foreign entities wouldn't attract the attention of various intell agencies.
My uncle in the tech business has done business all over the world and says surveillance comes with the territory. He says it happens with friendly countries let alone nations with histories as our adversaries. He said China is bad because they want to steal from you and the USA is listening for secrets to be passed but he says Russia is worse for other reasons. If you do business with Russia you're doing business with the mob and that is never good.
Perhaps. But I want to see proof and I want to see the official reasoning behind the spying.
If it's sound then Trump has some explaining to do. If it's not, then Obama has some explaining to do.
Otherwise we're just chasing ghosts here. Unnamed sources say this and that.
How? They had to admit they tapped him. The whole thing has shifted to why he was tapped, not IF. You might want him to look like a fool but at the end of the day he made an accusation that was shown to be true. How exactly and in detail does that make one look like a fool? He was right about it afterall. Whether or not one likes his method of communicating is besides the point.
[/size]Trump’s allegations appeared to blindside officials in his own administration. A senior Trump official reportedly told NBC News (https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/838086965971062785) on Saturday that neither he, nor other administration officials, seemed to know what the president was talking about.
Yes he was proven to be right.
We all already know Trump'spersonality quirksan idiot...
I haven't seen a shred of evidence that he was proven right yet. Only in your own mind, maybe.
Norm, I and others have inundated you with evidence.
What's your endgame?
The truth.
Based on your posting history, this is simply not believable.
It would have been nice if Trump had assembled a modicum of evidence before announcing. Now he just looks like a fool.
How do YOU know he hasn't?
How do YOU know he hasn't?
I am thinking it highly likely that Sessions gave Trump the low down on the FISA requests Thurs-Fri. That makes Sessions recusal make perfect sense, as he knew the whole Russia show was going to collapse and this is the fish he needs to fry.
Clarice Feldman
17 hrs ·
Ruth Papazian shared a link.
25 mins
Here's a plausible scenario:
1. In October, Loretta Lynch--who owes her career to both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama--goes to a FISA court judge who was appointed by Obama and without much fuss or muss--formerly known as "evidence"--gets a warrant to get taps on all the phones at Trump Campaign Headquarters in Trump Tower.
2. There is absolutely no oversight on the FISA court, and when FBI director James Comey gets wind of the Watergate-type operation, he retaliates by divulging the info about the additional emails found on Anthony Weiner's laptop.
3. DOJ is desperate to get the goods on Trump to counteract the damage to Hillary's campaign, but comes a cropper. The taps yield nada. Under increasing pressure in the media and by the White House, Comey tries to mitigate his effect on Hillary's campaign by informing Congress that no new information was found on the laptop.
4. Hillary spectacularly loses the election, and Obama knows his "legacy" will go poof! so the wiretaps are left in place so that whenever a member of the Trump transition team talks to or meets with anyone--including Russian officials with whom he or she will soon be interacting in their offical government capacity--the interaction is recorded.
5. Though the law requires names of any Americans recorded in FISA court-authorized taps be redacted before transcripts are circulated to intelligence agencies, somehow this does not happen and transcripts are leaked to the media by unnamed sources.
6. Meanwhile, anti-Russian fervor is whipped to a fever pitch in the media so that the most banal conversations will take on a sinister twist.
7. The "discredited" official is hounded by the press, while there are calls for his or her resignation by Dem leadership and by an army of media surrogates on cable news shows and on social media.
How does any of this differ from a typical KGB operation? How is Obama different from Putin? What additional proof is needed that we are living in a police state?
And we are already starting to see repercussions in our already shaky relationship with Russia--thanks to Hillary's incompetence-- as a result of this witch hunt.
This thing is starting to mushroom.
Why do you agree with every liberal talking point @Weird Tolkienish Figure? What's your endgame?
Serious questions, WTF.
Clapper denies wiretap of Trump Tower
"I can deny it," Clapper said in response.
"There is no FISA court order," Todd asked.
"Not to my knowledge," Clapper responded.
Then he can't deny it if he admittedly does not know. it would also be a NATSEC violation if he admitted it occured.So what exactly is the worth in his statement?
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
Trump, Trumpbart, the MAGA crowd, and the MAGA media all look like complete wimps and whiners, still complaining about mean ol' Obama after Obama has been out of office for over a month. GET ON WITH IT. Pass your agenda and stop whining like little bitches.
Not necessarily, for all we know all it takes is a serious allegation to make some of these judges give approval.@geronl
Either Obama spied on Trump, or the current President is mentally unstable and should be asked to resign by his cabinet. A sane person doesn't go public with this stuff unless he is dead certain it's true. It has been 24 hours and nary a shred of credible evidence has been presented.
Clapper denies wiretap of Trump Tower
By Rebecca Savransky - 03/05/17 10:36 AM EST
Former Director of National Intelligence (DNI) James Clapper on Sunday denied President Trump's allegations that former President Barack Obama wiretapped Trump Tower before the election.
During an interview on NBC's "Meet The Press," Clapper was asked if he would be aware if something like that had happened.
"I would certainly hope so ... Obviously I can't speak officially anymore," Clapper said on NBC's "Meet The Press."
"But I will say that for the part of the national security apparatus that I oversaw as DNI, there was no such wiretap activity mounted against the president-elect at the time, as a candidate, or against his campaign."
Clapper also said he would know if a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court order existed for "something like this."
"And at this point you can't confirm or deny whether that exists?" host Chuck Todd asked.
"I can deny it," Clapper said in response.
"There is no FISA court order," Todd asked.
"Not to my knowledge," Clapper responded.
<..snip..>
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/322411-clapper-denies-wiretap-of-trump-tower (http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/322411-clapper-denies-wiretap-of-trump-tower)
Clapper denies wiretap of Trump Tower
By Rebecca Savransky - 03/05/17 10:36 AM EST
Former Director of National Intelligence (DNI) James Clapper on Sunday denied President Trump's allegations that former President Barack Obama wiretapped Trump Tower before the election.
During an interview on NBC's "Meet The Press," Clapper was asked if he would be aware if something like that had happened.
"I would certainly hope so ... Obviously I can't speak officially anymore," Clapper said on NBC's "Meet The Press."
"But I will say that for the part of the national security apparatus that I oversaw as DNI, there was no such wiretap activity mounted against the president-elect at the time, as a candidate, or against his campaign."
Clapper also said he would know if a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court order existed for "something like this."
"And at this point you can't confirm or deny whether that exists?" host Chuck Todd asked.
"I can deny it," Clapper said in response.
"There is no FISA court order," Todd asked.
"Not to my knowledge," Clapper responded.
<..snip..>
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/322411-clapper-denies-wiretap-of-trump-tower (http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/322411-clapper-denies-wiretap-of-trump-tower)
The truth.
deny, obfuscate, deflect.
Right. He's also a proven liar. This is the guy that told Congress the NSA was not collecting information of any sort on millions of americans (later determined that they were).
Here you go. SIX WEEKS AGO.
by Andrew C. McCarthy January 11, 2017 3:02 PM
The first [FISA] request, which, sources say, named Trump, was denied back in June, but the second was drawn more narrowly and was granted in October after evidence was presented of a server, possibly related to the Trump campaign, and its alleged links to two banks; [sic] SVB Bank and Russia’s Alfa Bank. While the Times story speaks of metadata, sources suggest that a FISA warrant was granted to look at the full content of emails and other related documents that may concern US persons.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443768/obama-fisa-trump-wiretap
"Two U.S. representatives accused Clapper of perjury for telling a congressional committee in March 2013, that the NSA does not collect any type of data at all on millions of Americans. One senator asked for his resignation, and a group of 26 senators complained about Clapper's responses under questioning. Media observers have described Clapper as having lied under oath, having obstructed justice, and having given false testimony."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
"...complaining about mean ol' Obama after Obama has been out of office for over a month."
You do not understand Trump's mind. Remember, he hounded, sent nasty messages, for 20 years to a woman in England who refused his advances. He will still be blaming Obama for 20 years. And, if you say something critical of Trump, and he gets wind of it, he will hound YOU for 20 years - and/or sue you. Also remember, he wanted new laws so he could sue the media if they said something unfair about him, and he would be the one who determined what "fair" is. :kisses2:
It is the pits, @bigheadfred, that you bring this reasonable account of why the Trump people in the campaign were examined due to the Russian influence in our election. This Russian influence was a web and the Trump people were in that web. Trump is blaming Obama personally for wiretapping him.
The next time you post, get with the group think that Obama did this all by himself, to listen to Trump's calls. :beer:
In the upcoming days........
I am popping pop corn in anticipation of the TBR Orange hoard frothing at the mouth trying to deny that Trump is not a nut job.
OTOH....
If this governmental bugging of an opposing POTUS candiidate assertion is true, it's pitchfork time folks.......
Uhh...... huh? lol
In the upcoming days........
I am popping pop corn in anticipation of the TBR Orange hoard frothing at the mouth trying to deny that Trump is not a nut job.
OTOH....
If this governmental bugging of an opposing POTUS candiidate assertion is true, it's pitchfork time folks.......
1. Megalomania...
2. Extreme Narcism.....
3. Paranoia?
I really wouldn't call it group-think..... to think that Obama instigated this all-out assault on Trump.... which started even back during the 2016 campaign. Those of us that know only too well what Barack Hussein Obama is capable of know full-well that he's behind it all. He and his assclown puppet-masters Soros and Jarrett. I put nothing past Obama's ugly @ss. Nothing.
Did Obama do it 'all by himself'? Of course not. But then, that's not even the point.... is it.
Game, Set, Match
When Susan Collins says something right, it's over-Drink up.
Susan Collins: "It Would Probably Be Helpful For President Trump Not To Comment Any Further"
Posted By Tim Hains
On Date March 5, 2017
Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine sits down with Face the Nation Host John Dickerson to discuss President Trump's wiretap accusations, the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation into Russia and healthcare reform.
"It would probably be helpful if he gave more information, but it also might be helpful if he just didn't comment further and allowed us to do our work," she said about the Intelligence Committee investigation.
<..snip..>
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/03/05/susan_collins_it_would_probably_be_helpful_for_president_trump_not_to_comment_any_further.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/03/05/susan_collins_it_would_probably_be_helpful_for_president_trump_not_to_comment_any_further.html)
Of course Obama masterminded the assault. He is evil personified. He thought he could continue as Potus (behind the scenes) with Hillary in the White House. He must have been incredibly traumatized when Trump won. All the denials from the Obama camp sound weak and dissembling. Maybe Obama didn't personally order this but everyone knew it's what he wanted. Why do you think he packed the government with his appointees right before he left? Why do you think he moved practically next door to the White House?
I think he planned for Hillary to serve four years at which time her health and age would prohibit her from running again. I think he had his candidate picked out. Not sure who but ...
Trump may be a bit of a jerk but I think he loves the country and wants what is best for us.
Obama wanted to make America a combination of socialism, third-world nation and full of Muslims. He just didn't have quite enough time.
Thank you, Trump.
In the meantime you boys and girls enjoy demeaning the guy who kept us from Obama and Hillary.
The problem is that if he comes out and says 'ABCD" then he violates several federal disclosure laws on classified data. He can say "It happened, trust me" and thats all he can do legally. I don't trust him. I trust Obama even less.
Of course Obama masterminded the assault. He is evil personified. He thought he could continue as Potus (behind the scenes) with Hillary in the White House. He must have been incredibly traumatized when Trump won. All the denials from the Obama camp sound weak and dissembling. Maybe Obama didn't personally order this but everyone knew it's what he wanted. Why do you think he packed the government with his appointees right before he left? Why do you think he moved practically next door to the White House?
I think he planned for Hillary to serve four years at which time her health and age would prohibit her from running again. I think he had his candidate picked out. Not sure who but ...
Trump may be a bit of a jerk but I think he loves the country and wants what is best for us.
Obama wanted to make America a combination of socialism, third-world nation and full of Muslims. He just didn't have quite enough time.
Thank you, Trump.
In the meantime you boys and girls enjoy demeaning the guy who kept us from Obama and Hillary.
Enough about me...
In the meantime you boys and girls enjoy demeaning the guy who kept us from Obama and Hillary.
Game, Set, Match
When Susan Collins says something right, it's over-Drink up.
I'm glad you're happy, Emjay, but Trump is still as corrupt and dishonest as he was when you didn't like him....... no matter whom he "kept us from."
Just maybe when you find yourself agreeing with Susan Collins, you might want to check on your own thought processes
@Emjay
I'm not going to hesitate to criticize any politician, I don't care who he is. I like and respect Ted Cruz more than any of them, but I've criticized him when necessary, and I'll do so again. These people are public servants....employees.
And oh my Lord, I have a friend who couldn't stand Trump, but now she won't say a negative thing about him----only: "Well, at least he's not Hillary." That trope is getting very old.
Did you watch the Video @Machiavelli posted @don-o ? Where is she wrong?
Collins has that air of smug self importance that used to sicken Conservatives.
If one is going to major on fault finding, nit picking and hair splitting one can certainly stay busy.
But one can also stay busy on the big picture and the change of direction that is possible with this administration. At least once a day, I try to imagine what our current situation would be had the election gone the other way. That, no doubt, informs a lot of how I react to the latest "crisis du jour."
There a lot of nasty creatures still inhabiting the swamp and Iran is on the move. I will take Trump and his tram to deal with this over Hillary's eight days a week and thank God for ir,
@don-o
Hillary's old news. She lost. She doesn't enter into the equation now.
Trump is the president, and, as I've demonstrated, I'll criticize him when warranted and give him credit when he earns it. I'm not going to ignore something because he isn't Hillary Clinton. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
Speaking of the big picture, I hope Trump will let an investigation proceed and focus on matters such as tax cuts, immigration, religious freedom, repealing Obamacare, etc.
I am impressed by your dedication. I am a bit put off that you would trivialize the massive disaster that we avoided on Nov 9.
What do you think the prayer "deliver us from evil" means? Or do you deny that happened?
@CatherineofAragon
I am impressed by your dedication. I am a bit put off that you would trivialize the massive disaster that we avoided on Nov 9.
What do you think the prayer "deliver us from evil" means? Or do you deny that happened?
What do you think the prayer "deliver us from evil" means? Or do you deny that happened?
It's the bit immediately preceded by "lead us not into temptation."
It's the bit immediately preceded by "lead us not into temptation."
Collins has that air of smug self importance that used to sicken Conservatives.
Why isn't she asked about the many leaks of classified material and asked if she will press for the declassification of all material that was used to create this phony story?
What has happened to McCain? He must surely be detoxing from camera deprivation.
I am impressed by your dedication. I am a bit put off that you would trivialize the massive disaster that we avoided on Nov 9.
What do you think the prayer "deliver us from evil" means? Or do you deny that happened?
@CatherineofAragon
@don-o
Hillary's old news. She lost. She doesn't enter into the equation now.
Trump is the president, and, as I've demonstrated, I'll criticize him when warranted and give him credit when he earns it. I'm not going to ignore something because he isn't Hillary Clinton. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
Speaking of the big picture, I hope Trump will let an investigation proceed and focus on matters such as tax cuts, immigration, religious freedom, repealing Obamacare, etc.
If Sessions/Trump and/or Pence are neutralized. We get fauxcahontas. Or even Hillary again.
What other end game could there be?
Did you watch the Video @Machiavelli posted @don-o ? Where is she wrong?
And we may get the same if they aren't neutralized.
We know what a republican impeachment looks like. Pence gets to play Ford...
I am impressed by your dedication. I am a bit put off that you would trivialize the massive disaster that we avoided on Nov 9.
What do you think the prayer "deliver us from evil" means? Or do you deny that happened?
@CatherineofAragon
What do you think the prayer "deliver us from evil" means?
I'll tell you what it means. No more of Catherine's jokes.
@don-o
Oh, good Lord, I expected better from you. I really did.
What do you think the prayer "deliver us from evil" means?
@don-o
Oh, good Lord, I expected better from you. I really did.
Time to rally around the Never Mascot.
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/drw509/eeyore.jpg)
LOL! Perhaps your Sorting Hat needs a tuneup. Or a rebuild.
Time to rally around the Never Mascot.
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/drw509/eeyore.jpg)
@don-o, you've been wanting to let your flag fly. Do it. Hoist it on up there, lol.
@don-o, you've been wanting to let your flag fly. Do it. Hoist it on up there, lol.
Far fetched to who? I'm trying to wrap my head around the concept that someone this stupid is employed somewhere outside a supervised group work/rehab facility for the mentally damaged. Just how freaking stupid does one have to be to think a secret court with nearly unlimited power would NOT be used against political enemies by a tyrannical government? Far fetched? Really? Stevie Wonder would have to shield his eyes from the light of this one for cryin' out loud.
I hope he has proof. Saying Arnold Schwarzenegger quit instead of being fired is a serious charge.
What I am gathering here is that despite having a FISA request rejected on the criminal side for lack of evidence, it was deemed necessary under the guise of "national security" to continue with the investigation with the wiretaps. Aaannnd, they found nothing. That is my problem. We have a national security apparatus that, IMO, has gone off the reservation. They can say all they want to that obama didn't order it. obama can say it. They have zero credibility with me.:beer:
I didn't vote for trump. Don't like the guy. But that is me. The crap coming from the left needs to stop. So I am behind trump against them. For my own selfish interests.
If one is going to major on fault finding, nit picking and hair splitting one can certainly stay busy.
But one can also stay busy on the big picture and the change of direction that is possible with this administration. At least once a day, I try to imagine what our current situation would be had the election gone the other way. That, no doubt, informs a lot of how I react to the latest "crisis du jour."
There a lot of nasty creatures still inhabiting the swamp and Iran is on the move. I will take Trump and his tram to deal with this over Hillary's eight days a week and thank God for ir,
@AbaraXas
He didn't say Arnold quit. He said he fired himself with the low ratings.
Yes. Double Amen. Hillary lost but she didn't die. She and her husband and the evil Obama crew are still very much alive.
I think Trump is deeply flawed personally but I also think he has tried, and for the most part, succeeded in being a good president.
I can't even bear to envision the sh*t we would be in if Hillary had won. All these people here who derive daily joy in nitpicking Trump's personality problems should take just a couple of minutes and put down their pitchforks. Good Lord. I know it's fun and I know it makes them feel all superior but we have a country to think about.
What I am gathering here is that despite having a FISA request rejected on the criminal side for lack of evidence, it was deemed necessary under the guise of "national security" to continue with the investigation with the wiretaps. Aaannnd, they found nothing. That is my problem. We have a national security apparatus that, IMO, has gone off the reservation. They can say all they want to that obama didn't order it. obama can say it. They have zero credibility with me.
I didn't vote for trump. Don't like the guy. But that is me. The crap coming from the left needs to stop. So I am behind trump against them. For my own selfish interests.
The security apparatus was let out of the cage in 2001 with the PATRIOT Act. We've done more damage to our own civil liberties than the terrorists could ever have imagined.
The security apparatus was let out of the cage in 2001 with the PATRIOT Act. We've done more damage to our own civil liberties than the terrorists could ever have imagined.
The security apparatus was let out of the cage in 2001 with the PATRIOT Act. We've done more damage to our own civil liberties than the terrorists could ever have imagined.
Department of Homeland Security, Transportation Security Administration, the defunct (or absorbed into NSA) Total Information Awareness (with its conspiracy-inducing logo) and the one we almost got, Operation TIPS. Maybe some others I've forgotten.
You're 100% correct. We just couldn't see it then.
Department of Homeland Security, Transportation Security Administration, the defunct (or absorbed into NSA) Total Information Awareness (with its conspiracy-inducing logo) and the one we almost got, Operation TIPS. Maybe some others I've forgotten.
You are throwing a whole lot of babies out with the bath water. Without DHS, we've had another 9/11 event. Maybe multiple. This is not to say we shouldn't have concerns about our civil liberties, but security and freedom are ALWAYS a balancing act....and yes, we should err on the side of freedom. That does not, however, mean we disregard security entirely.
You are throwing a whole lot of babies out with the bath water. Without DHS, we've had another 9/11 event. Maybe multiple. This is not to say we shouldn't have concerns about our civil liberties, but security and freedom are ALWAYS a balancing act....and yes, we should err on the side of freedom. That does not, however, mean we disregard security entirely.
We had in place many 'security agencies.' Adding another layer of bureaucracy might not be the way to go to enhance security.
You are throwing a whole lot of babies out with the bath water. Without DHS, we've had another 9/11 event. Maybe multiple. This is not to say we shouldn't have concerns about our civil liberties, but security and freedom are ALWAYS a balancing act....and yes, we should err on the side of freedom. That does not, however, mean we disregard security entirely.
We had many, and they were poorly integrated with one another. That is far less true today under a single agency, and as I said...without DHS, we'd have had more 9/11's.
Proving counterfactuals is a fools' errand. Prove it.
...but Trump is still as corrupt and dishonest as he was when you didn't like him....... no matter whom he "kept us from."@musiclady
@musiclady
@mystery-ak
@Oceander
@CatherineofAragon
@txradioguy
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
@Cripplecreek
This whole day has been a mess on every cable news channel. No one knows who is doing what or when they did it or didn't do it or if it was done at all. One argues with the next. One tweet from Trump caused this chaos - we have been in chaos due to him from the first day he was president and it will stay this way every single day he is president. I think, at this point of watching this after so short a time and the mess it is now, he won't remain as president; something will happen and I don't know what that will be.
I don't trust any report from anyone in his government at this point because no one knows what is really happening. Did Trump blow up due to Sessions removing himself from any investigation about the election of Trump/the Russian connection? Did he lose his temper with Bannon/Priebus, blame them for Sessions removing himself and messing up the glowing aftermath of his wonderful "read" talk to congress, then stalk out and go to Florida without them? Then, make that tweet Saturday morning about being wiretapped by Obama? Well, yes, we know he made that tweet that set off bombs in various government agencies. He also wants an investigation done on Pelosi and Schumer. That is only the beginning - remember he is the king of suing others. He will want govn. investigations against every government person he doesn't like. He has brought up a picture of Schumer with Putin back in 2003. He wants him investigated.
What is his next move tonight on twitter or tomorrow morning on twitter to keep the chaos going?
musiclady, every day is the same, one more tweet and it keeps going. This is a nightmare that won't end.
I believe this, know this, and will not answer any poster who attacks me - it is the way it is.
@musiclady
@mystery-ak
@Oceander
@CatherineofAragon
@txradioguy
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
@Cripplecreek
This whole day has been a mess on every cable news channel. No one knows who is doing what or when they did it or didn't do it or if it was done at all. One argues with the next. One tweet from Trump caused this chaos - we have been in chaos due to him from the first day he was president and it will stay this way every single day he is president. I think, at this point of watching this after so short a time and the mess it is now, he won't remain as president; something will happen and I don't know what that will be.
I don't trust any report from anyone in his government at this point because no one knows what is really happening. Did Trump blow up due to Sessions removing himself from any investigation about the election of Trump/the Russian connection? Did he lose his temper with Bannon/Priebus, blame them for Sessions removing himself and messing up the glowing aftermath of his wonderful "read" talk to congress, then stalk out and go to Florida without them? Then, make that tweet Saturday morning about being wiretapped by Obama? Well, yes, we know he made that tweet that set off bombs in various government agencies. He also wants an investigation done on Pelosi and Schumer. That is only the beginning - remember he is the king of suing others. He will want govn. investigations against every government person he doesn't like. He has brought up a picture of Schumer with Putin back in 2003. He wants him investigated.
What is his next move tonight on twitter or tomorrow morning on twitter to keep the chaos going?
musiclady, every day is the same, one more tweet and it keeps going. This is a nightmare that won't end.
I believe this, know this, and will not answer any poster who attacks me - it is the way it is.
The security apparatus was let out of the cage in 2001 with the PATRIOT Act. We've done more damage to our own civil liberties than the terrorists could ever have imagined.
We had many, and they were poorly integrated with one another. That is far less true today under a single agency, and as I said...without DHS, we'd have had more 9/11's.
@musiclady
@mystery-ak
@Oceander
@CatherineofAragon
@txradioguy
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
@Cripplecreek
This whole day has been a mess on every cable news channel. No one knows who is doing what or when they did it or didn't do it or if it was done at all. One argues with the next. One tweet from Trump caused this chaos - we have been in chaos due to him from the first day he was president and it will stay this way every single day he is president. I think, at this point of watching this after so short a time and the mess it is now, he won't remain as president; something will happen and I don't know what that will be.
I don't trust any report from anyone in his government at this point because no one knows what is really happening. Did Trump blow up due to Sessions removing himself from any investigation about the election of Trump/the Russian connection? Did he lose his temper with Bannon/Priebus, blame them for Sessions removing himself and messing up the glowing aftermath of his wonderful "read" talk to congress, then stalk out and go to Florida without them? Then, make that tweet Saturday morning about being wiretapped by Obama? Well, yes, we know he made that tweet that set off bombs in various government agencies. He also wants an investigation done on Pelosi and Schumer. That is only the beginning - remember he is the king of suing others. He will want govn. investigations against every government person he doesn't like. He has brought up a picture of Schumer with Putin back in 2003. He wants him investigated.
What is his next move tonight on twitter or tomorrow morning on twitter to keep the chaos going?
musiclady, every day is the same, one more tweet and it keeps going. This is a nightmare that won't end.
I believe this, know this, and will not answer any poster who attacks me - it is the way it is.
This is McCarthyism!
You are throwing a whole lot of babies out with the bath water. Without DHS, we've had another 9/11 event. Maybe multiple. This is not to say we shouldn't have concerns about our civil liberties, but security and freedom are ALWAYS a balancing act....and yes, we should err on the side of freedom. That does not, however, mean we disregard security entirely.
Ahem. This is a forum, not a place for your personal diatribes which you demand not be answered.@Emjay
I cannot even imagine the disappointment you would feel if you got up and discovered to your horror that Trump had not tweeted or said or done anything for you to rail about.
This is not a nightmare A nightmare would be if Hillary got elected. Another nightmare would be if the Obama forces from the cozy home close to the White House ... the one where Valerie Jarrett lives ..if those forces manage to harm Trump or his presidency.
You are so childish. Trump is nobody's (well, almost nobody) first choice but he was elected. He's president and doing a good job. A bunch of Bills were introduced in Congress today all of which I think will improve our country.
Your self-indulgent bitching is doing nothing but help Hillary, Obama and your own very large ego.
@Emjay
Marry me! goopo
I saw her first.You can have her on holidays and weekends. :smokin:
:silly:
Ahem. This is a forum, not a place for your personal diatribes which you demand not be answered.
I cannot even imagine the disappointment you would feel if you got up and discovered to your horror that Trump had not tweeted or said or done anything for you to rail about.
This is not a nightmare A nightmare would be if Hillary got elected. Another nightmare would be if the Obama forces from the cozy home close to the White House ... the one where Valerie Jarrett lives ..if those forces manage to harm Trump or his presidency.
You are so childish. Trump is nobody's (well, almost nobody) first choice but he was elected. He's president and doing a good job. A bunch of Bills were introduced in Congress today all of which I think will improve our country.
Your self-indulgent bitching is doing nothing but help Hillary, Obama and your own very large ego.
Think it's time to put yo on the Bozo list, Emjay. Since you do nothing but personal attacks lately.
If I delete it I have to delete all the posts that quoted it therefore butchering the thread.
The thread has long been ground beef.
The post by @Emjay was not a "personal attack". It was a well-reasoned and well-written assessment of the opinion posted by @Victoria33 ---
You are so childish. Trump is nobody's (well, almost nobody) first choice but he was elected. He's president and doing a good job. A bunch of Bills were introduced in Congress today all of which I think will improve our country.[/size]Your self-indulgent bitching is doing nothing but help Hillary, Obama and your own very large ego.
When life gives you ground beef...make chili!
This isn't a personal attack?
@Emjay needs to learn from you, RiV. I dont have you on ignore because I enjoy your contrary, reasoned opinion on Trump.
Not so with @Emjay .
Emjay that was a personal attack on Victoria
If I delete it I have to delete all the posts that quoted it therefore butchering the thread.
Everyone please refrain from personal attacks..
Think it's time to put yo on the Bozo list, Emjay. Since you do nothing but personal attacks lately.
@Emjay is just trying for civil discourse and constructive criticism .
She has formidable debating skills and we used to be on different sides of issues when I was more pro-Trump than she was....
The post by @Emjay was not a "personal attack". It was a well-reasoned and well-written assessment of the opinion posted by @Victoria33 ---
Sorry, I will be a better girl in the future.
WTF...I just asked for the personal attacks to stop..please delete yours re Emjay..she apologized.
All set.
Sorry, I will be a better girl in the future.
One tweet from Trump caused this chaos - we have been in chaos due to him from the first day he was president and it will stay this way every single day he is president.
This is not a nightmare A nightmare would be if Hillary got elected.
You are blaming Trump because he informed America that the Obama administration was spying on him?
This thing appears to be Watergate on steroids, and you are blaming Trump for the Chaos?
I've said before that I will give Trump credit when it's due---as with the appointment of Gorsuch and his address last week---but I'll criticize him when deserved, as well. I'd do the same with any president, and if someone can't deal with it, it's their problem. I'm not going to play to the creeping notion that I have to be cheerleader for a politician or I'm helping the other side. Let's face it, nothing we post here is doing that.
+1000
DL , you remain a national treasure.
To me there is a vocal contingent on this forum that want it to be that, just a rah-rah cheerleader forum for pro-Trump things.
If you wanted that, why wouldn't you go to somewhere like FreeRepublic?
:shrug:
My understanding of this forum is that it's a place to discuss politics, which is what we're doing.
To me there is a vocal contingent on this forum that want it to be that, just a rah-rah cheerleader forum for pro-Trump things.
"If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."
To me there is a vocal contingent on this forum that want it to be that, just a rah-rah cheerleader forum for pro-Trump things.
If you wanted that, why wouldn't you go to somewhere like FreeRepublic?
:shrug:
My understanding of this forum is that it's a place to discuss politics, which is what we're doing.
I do not see how furthering their false claims supports conservatism. I don't see how giving their websites traffic, furthers conservatism.
And it was many people's failure to understand just how much of a Nightmare Hillary would be that convinced me many people let their own emotions cloud their judgement. (and some continue to do so.)
We dodged a massive bullet. Hillary would have been a dire threat to our lives and freedom. Trump causes chaos instead of the "Order" which Hitlery would impose?
Viva La Chaos!
I'm not here to further conservatism, personally. :shrug: I have a conservative outlook, love liberty, freedom of choice, the constitution, and capitalism and I like discussing with other people. Is that our job? To be a mouthpiece for the movement?
I'm not here to further conservatism, personally. :shrug:
I have a conservative outlook, love liberty, freedom of choice, the constitution, and capitalism and I like discussing with other people.
Is that our job? To be a mouthpiece for the movement?
To me there is a vocal contingent on this forum that want it to be that, just a rah-rah cheerleader forum for pro-Trump things.
If you wanted that, why wouldn't you go to somewhere like FreeRepublic?
:shrug:
My understanding of this forum is that it's a place to discuss politics, which is what we're doing.
the end result is still the same.
This is what i'm thinking.
We are pro America and pro Liberty by way of Trump , Cruz , Sessions, Levin or anyone else who can help promote American exceptionalism.
Not P Ryan or Lindsey Graham or Valerie Jarrett or McCain.
My liberal priest friend on Facebook loves, loves, loves the New York Times. He scours it daily to find some anti-Trump stuff. He doesn't have to scour hard.
Yesterday, he found something really juicy and this is what he posted:
"In case anyone is getting too sidetracked by the Russian spy drama, the following bills have been introduced:
1. HR 861 Terminate the Environmental Protection Agency
2. HR 610 Vouchers for Public Education
3. HR 899 Terminate the Department of Education
4. HJR 69 Repeal Rule Protecting Wildlife
5. HR 370 Repeal Affordable Care Act
6. HR 354 Defund Planned Parenthood
7. HR 785 National Right to Work (this one ends unions)
8. HR 83 Mobilizing Against Sanctuary Cities Bill
9. HR 147 Criminalizing Abortion (“Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act”)
10. HR 808 Sanctions against Iran
Please copy/paste and share widely. Call your House Representative and ask them to not only vote "NO"...but to speak up for our rights, health & safety, and our beautiful country."
Does anyone think any of these bills would be under consideration if Hillary had been elected.
I see a lot of posters here proudly proclaim they are not Republicans any more ... apparently because the Republican party is not conservative enough.
But we are still basically a two-party system. We've elected a president that a lot of people are finding it hard to accept, which is okay, but their daily attacks on him aren't helping anybody but the former regime which, by the way, I would not put anything past.
Yes I could see all those being proposed...simply because the House and Senate are still controlled by the Republicans.
The President doesn't tell the Speaker or the majority leader what will and wont be in their agenda or come up for a vote.
True, but it has a psychological effect on the House and Senate to know that the President will support their agenda. My priest friend was obviously blaming this on Trump so let's give Trump a little credit for it.
Well I can see that Congress would be unburdened by the probability of it being vetoed once it reaches the President's desk...so we have Trump to thank for that.
But then again if the Republicans were smart...I know it's a stretch...they'd have sent every single one of those to Hillary's desk had she won and forced her to veto every single one of them...it would have made a nice pile of ammo for the GOP in the mid terms.
"If IFs and Buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas."
Quick, who is famous for saying that?
LOL! sadly the only name that came to mind was Barney the Purple Dinosaur...too many years of my kids watching the videos and the tv show! :silly:
"If IFs and Buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas."
Quick, who is famous for saying that?
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
I actually like that we all don't fall in lockstep over here and agree with one another. Parroting each others' posts and yelling "BUMP" gets boring.
I appreciate the fact that freedom of speech and of viewpoint is encouraged here and that none of us will be shutting up.
True, but it has a psychological effect on the House and Senate to know that the President will support their agenda. My priest friend was obviously blaming this on Trump so let's give Trump a little credit for it.
I'm not here to further conservatism, personally. :shrug:
I have a conservative outlook, love liberty, freedom of choice, the constitution, and capitalism and I like discussing with other people.
Is that our job? To be a mouthpiece for the movement?
Finally. The truth come forth. Thank you for clearing up where you are coming from. It's a good day.
It was Dandy Don Meredith, who with Frank Gifford and Howard Cosell, were the first and best Monday Night Football Crew.
But then again if the Republicans were smart...I know it's a stretch...they'd have sent every single one of those to Hillary's desk had she won and forced her to veto every single one of them...it would have made a nice pile of ammo for the GOP in the mid terms.
He clearly has a strong agenda for something. If it is not conservatism, then what is the agenda?
It was Dandy Don Meredith, who with Frank Gifford and Howard Cosell, were the first and best Monday Night Football Crew.
I dunno what do you think it is?
You are best placed to answer this. I am loathe to impute motives.
:shrug:
It's secret.
That is one of the more bizarre musings I have seen in a while. Sounds like classic McConnell.
My liberal priest friend on Facebook loves, loves, loves the New York Times. He scours it daily to find some anti-Trump stuff. He doesn't have to scour hard.
Yesterday, he found something really juicy and this is what he posted:
"In case anyone is getting too sidetracked by the Russian spy drama, the following bills have been introduced:
1. HR 861 Terminate the Environmental Protection Agency
2. HR 610 Vouchers for Public Education
3. HR 899 Terminate the Department of Education
4. HJR 69 Repeal Rule Protecting Wildlife
5. HR 370 Repeal Affordable Care Act
6. HR 354 Defund Planned Parenthood
7. HR 785 National Right to Work (this one ends unions)
8. HR 83 Mobilizing Against Sanctuary Cities Bill
9. HR 147 Criminalizing Abortion (“Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act”)
10. HR 808 Sanctions against Iran
Please copy/paste and share widely. Call your House Representative and ask them to not only vote "NO"...but to speak up for our rights, health & safety, and our beautiful country."
Does anyone think any of these bills would be under consideration if Hillary had been elected.
I see a lot of posters here proudly proclaim they are not Republicans any more ... apparently because the Republican party is not conservative enough.
But we are still basically a two-party system. We've elected a president that a lot of people are finding it hard to accept, which is okay, but their daily attacks on him aren't helping anybody but the former regime which, by the way, I would not put anything past.
Ok, got it . It is some undisclosed secret, hidden agenda you have.
That is one of the more bizarre musings I have seen in a while. Sounds like classic McConnell.
McConnell works behind the scenes to make sure the Statist Agenda has enough votes to pass, and then he votes against it - and touts his 'record' of opposing the Liberal agenda come reelection time.
I actually loathe McConnell more than I did Obama. Especially after what I watched him say to us Conservatives here in KY.
Ummm...looks like someone doesn't understand that term and isn't using it in the proper form.
No one was trying to root out communists in the Government.
@txradioguy
If someone did that DC would be a ghost town.
The post by @Emjay was not a "personal attack". It was a well-reasoned and well-written assessment of the opinion posted by @Victoria33 ---
I am certainly NOT going to cheer and applaud the/any chaos that Trump, himself, creates either via his tweets or his words and deeds.... we had enough of that chaos crap over the past ten years with radical rule by the leftist Democrats.
What I will cheer is any time Trump manages to undo some of the damage Obama did to America and to Amercans (and is still trying to do). This nitpicking BS of negatively attacking and presuming (assuming) that Trump is guilty every single time an issue comes up is really getting old..... and it smacks of a leftist agenda right here on this conservative forum. It sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb..... and masquerades as a "never Trump vendetta". Whether the intent of all of this 24/7 Trump bashing is to aid and abett our enemies within, the leftist Democrats, or not.....
the end result is still the same.
Can't argue with you on this.
Joe McCarthy was trying to do the right thing and his name sadly became synonymous with something bad.
Emjay
Time to give it a rest. Your characterization of other people's opinion is getting tiresome.
State your opinion and allow others the same privilege.
My liberal priest friend on Facebook loves, loves, loves the New York Times. He scours it daily to find some anti-Trump stuff. He doesn't have to scour hard.
Yesterday, he found something really juicy and this is what he posted:
"In case anyone is getting too sidetracked by the Russian spy drama, the following bills have been introduced:
1. HR 861 Terminate the Environmental Protection Agency
2. HR 610 Vouchers for Public Education
3. HR 899 Terminate the Department of Education
4. HJR 69 Repeal Rule Protecting Wildlife
5. HR 370 Repeal Affordable Care Act
6. HR 354 Defund Planned Parenthood
7. HR 785 National Right to Work (this one ends unions)
8. HR 83 Mobilizing Against Sanctuary Cities Bill
9. HR 147 Criminalizing Abortion (“Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act”)
10. HR 808 Sanctions against Iran
Please copy/paste and share widely. Call your House Representative and ask them to not only vote "NO"...but to speak up for our rights, health & safety, and our beautiful country."
Does anyone think any of these bills would be under consideration if Hillary had been elected.
I see a lot of posters here proudly proclaim they are not Republicans any more ... apparently because the Republican party is not conservative enough.
But we are still basically a two-party system. We've elected a president that a lot of people are finding it hard to accept, which is okay, but their daily attacks on him aren't helping anybody but the former regime which, by the way, I would not put anything past.
Joe McCarthy was trying to do the right thing but he associated with the wrong people.
And you don't think there is merit in furthering it?
And you don't think there is merit in furthering it?
It being the conservative cause, for those who don't wish to scroll back.
No. There is no merit in furthering it - here. You want to further conservatism - get out and talk to actual leftists and independents. Here, you are mostly preaching to the choir, which does nothing but sooth the speakers ego and bore the choir.
Can I not serve by helping people to sharpen their arguments and comprehend the foundation of their philosophy?
I think there is merit. There different levels of conservatism on this site.
What conservatism is defined as is still up for grabs. We can also sign people up who are independents to come to the GOPBR.
Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites, — in proportion as their love to justice is above their rapacity, — in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption, — in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.
“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
You have been doing an excellent job on the Anthro board.
I haven't been there for awhile. I suppose I should get back to it, but I have just had so much to do lately.
Lately I have been dealing with a lot of meatworld responsibilities. Nothing serious, but there are a lot of them.
Kids, you know.
I haven't been there for awhile. I suppose I should get back to it, but I have just had so much to do lately.
Lately I have been dealing with a lot of meatworld responsibilities. Nothing serious, but there are a lot of them.
Kids, you know.
Right. Functionally equivalent.Has no one here aware of the Vault7 Wikileaks release? Trump is right as usual. The Intel agencies stole the Russian malware code. It basically allows hacking to blame Russia if it leaks. It leads to CIA & FBI, etc. using that code to enter anywhere they want to use it. People will think the Russians are hacking, even tho it comes from DC. A FICA Court document needed to spy on US citizens has to be signed by the President. That president was Barrack Obama.
But the real issue here is High crimes under the color of authority . :patriot:
Has no one here aware of the Vault7 Wikileaks release? Trump is right as usual. The Intel agencies stole the Russian malware code. It basically allows hacking to blame Russia if it leaks. It leads to CIA & FBI, etc. using that code to enter anywhere they want to use it. People will think the Russians are hacking, even tho it comes from DC. A FICA Court document needed to spy on US citizens has to be signed by the President. That president was Barrack Obama.
Twitter: @wikileaks #Vault7 (https://twitter.com/wikileaks) A preface was realeased early Monday morning. Then he released at 9pm Tuesday. It's long, but well worth the time. It's over 8.4K pages. Conservative Treehouse has a link to the release. It's all over the web! Use Dogpile & DuckDuckGo 4 search. Some very crushing revelations and I'm only on page 100. It exposes the shadow government & deep state. Chilling revelations that involves all 16 US Intel Agencies, Congress and others. ($oro$, Hillary, etc.)
Best to lock and load. We are in a very dangerous time. This is the Globalists vs. USA and the enemy has infiltrated all agencies, from the top down.
And I suppose you have a credible link to this somewhere in your pocket?
Where he pulls it from is real close to his rear pocket if that helps any?
And I suppose you have a credible link to this somewhere in your pocket?
WikiLeaks: CIA hacking group 'UMBRAGE' stockpiled techniques from other hackers
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/03/07/wikileaks-cia-hacking-group-umbrage-stockpiled-techniques-other-hackers/98867462/
And we're to trust WikiLeaks as a credible source why exactly?
And I suppose you have a credible link to this somewhere in your pocket?
I believe this story is from USA Today. There are many others reporting it as well.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/266016/obamas-wiretaps-matthew-vadum
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/266041/cia-dirty-cyber-tricks-matthew-vadum
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/07/wikileaks-releases-entire-hacking-capacity-cia.html
@Bigun
You still don't get it. NO source will be reliable enough for these closet Obomber fans to accept it. Trump is making their lust bunny look bad,and they just can't live with that.
Yeah, in fact... I was just about to ask him "well what source 'would' you accept as credible?" .... and I realized there's no point in even asking. They won't trust ANY source that doesn't bleat what they want to hear.
Yeah, in fact... I was just about to ask him "well what source 'would' you accept as credible?" .... and I realized there's no point in even asking. They won't trust ANY source that doesn't bleat what they want to hear.
Trump fans really should not be yapping about that one.
All I keep seeing in reports is one source...WikiLeaks and a lot of speculation...that's it.
No official statement from the WH...nothing from the NSA or DHS to confirm if the crap Assange is spitting out is true.
If this was a negative story about Trump and the only source was a wanted criminal with an axe to grind against the U.S. as the only source...the howls of "FAKE NEWS!" by certain members of TBR from every corner of the country would be heard all the way here to my desk in Kentucky.
But because it's a story you want to believe as true about the big scary CIA...your concern where accuracy of sources is concerned flies out the window and suddenly anyone who raises the credibility issue is ridiculed and called a sheep or a closet Obama supporter by someone who buys tinfoil in bulk.
Has no one here aware of the Vault7 Wikileaks release? Trump is right as usual. The Intel agencies stole the Russian malware code. It basically allows hacking to blame Russia if it leaks. It leads to CIA & FBI, etc. using that code to enter anywhere they want to use it. People will think the Russians are hacking, even tho it comes from DC. A FICA Court document needed to spy on US citizens has to be signed by the President. That president was Barrack Obama.
Twitter: @wikileaks #Vault7 (https://twitter.com/wikileaks) A preface was realeased early Monday morning. Then he released at 9pm Tuesday. It's long, but well worth the time. It's over 8.4K pages. Conservative Treehouse has a link to the release. It's all over the web! Use Dogpile & DuckDuckGo 4 search. Some very crushing revelations and I'm only on page 100. It exposes the shadow government & deep state. Chilling revelations that involves all 16 US Intel Agencies, Congress and others. ($oro$, Hillary, etc.)
Best to lock and load. We are in a very dangerous time. This is the Globalists vs. USA and the enemy has infiltrated all agencies, from the top down.
Trump fans really should not be yapping about that one.
Point is, you seem to not care about any news that doesn't mirror or suit your own personal viewpoint. Why is that?
Yeah, well.... there's a lot of things the Trump haters shouldn't be yapping about. Yet still "they" yap on (and on, and on, and on....)
@dancer
I'm not into the globalist-behind-a-tree conspiracy thing, personally. It reeks of Alex Jones.
Also, I haven't joined those on the right who've suddenly decided to gush all over Julian Assange and Wikileaks, and to trust its every utterance. Wikileaks has always been distinctly anti-American and pro-Islamic terrorist. For a refresher, here's a good article:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/439766/wait-we-all-trust-julian-assange-now-julian-assange (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/439766/wait-we-all-trust-julian-assange-now-julian-assange)
And as for "Trump is right is usual", he sure as hell isn't right when he calls Obamacare 2.0 "wonderful', is he?
@dancer
I'm not into the globalist-behind-a-tree conspiracy thing, personally. It reeks of Alex Jones.
Also, I haven't joined those on the right who've suddenly decided to gush all over Julian Assange and Wikileaks, and to trust its every utterance. Wikileaks has always been distinctly anti-American and pro-Islamic terrorist. For a refresher, here's a good article:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/439766/wait-we-all-trust-julian-assange-now-julian-assange (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/439766/wait-we-all-trust-julian-assange-now-julian-assange)
And as for "Trump is right is usual", he sure as hell isn't right when he calls Obamacare 2.0 "wonderful', is he?
Oh...did I forget to mention something about the Trump haters? In addition to ad infinitum mindless yapping...
they also post lame, stupid and mindless graphics in lieu of having something substantive to say. :silly:
I don't know how else to respond to you, otherwise.
Julian Assange is worthy of nothing more than a single sniper round after endangering American troops, their families and our allies.
Its not known how many of our Afghan allies were slaughtered at the hands of the Taliban thanks to Assange and Wikileaks.
Yeah, in fact... I was just about to ask him "well what source 'would' you accept as credible?" .... and I realized there's no point in even asking. They won't trust ANY source that doesn't bleat what they want to hear.
He sure as hell isn't right about that. Maybe he should just come out and say "this is the best we can do for now and explain the 'why'. Not holding my breath for that explanation though.
Julian Assange is worthy of nothing more than a single sniper round after endangering American troops, their families and our allies.
Its not known how many of our Afghan allies were slaughtered at the hands of the Taliban thanks to Assange and Wikileaks.
@Cripplecreek
Exactly right. But now I'm supposed to take him at his word and fall all over him the way Hannity did? Not a chance.
@corbe you still got that flak meme pic handy?
The Daily Mail takes UMBRAGE with doubters.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,253090.0.html
And as for "Trump is right is usual", he sure as hell isn't right when he calls Obamacare 2.0 "wonderful', is he?
The problem is that when Trump lies about easily verifiable things like the drone strike tweet from yesterday, it yugely affects his credibility in other areas too.
No it doesn't. Trump has established that "shooting from the hip" imprecision is his standard methodology, so he's created the expectation that he won't be exactly correct on what he said, but he will be in the ball field correct on it.
This actually insulates him from mistaken utterances. If he makes a minor error, people will say, "Oh, that's just Trump."
No it doesn't. Trump has established that "shooting from the hip" imprecision is his standard methodology, so he's created the expectation that he won't be exactly correct on what he said, but he will be in the ball field correct on it.
This actually insulates him from mistaken utterances. If he makes a minor error, people will say, "Oh, that's just Trump."
Are you implying @DiogenesLamp that it is in Trump's best political interest to keep the 'bar low' so as to not be taken serious?
If so, it is positively brilliant in a 6 dimensional chess kind of way /s
Wow, that wouldn't work with me.
@Cripplecreek
Exactly right. But now I'm supposed to take him at his word and fall all over him the way Hannity did? Not a chance.
No, that is a straw-man interpretation of what I said.
A closer analogy is that Trump uses his words, his mannerisms, and his actions as stealth missiles that appear to be vague in their definition, but coalesce into a destructive force that hits the target anyway, despite the best efforts of the enemy to shoot them down.
He controls what is being talked about, even through people focusing on his mistakes or imprecision.
I am reminded of the Hollywood adage, "there is no such thing as bad press." Trump has turned that into an art form regarding issues of interest to him.
That part you got right, except for the "/s".
@XenaLee
I don't believe he will, either. His past support of universal health care probably has him thinking there are no problems with the plan.
The conservative estimate is thousands.@txradioguy
You aren't the target audience.
I especially love how he now has the New York Slimes contradicting their own previous ""reporting"". It's priceless. And people (lots of) are now laughing out loud at them.
Somehow that guy just keeps blundering into success. He's like "Inspector Clouseau. "
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/05/15/94/0515948cfc78171f9983761f241c5469.jpg)
Yes, it is funny how they now have to back track on "The Russians met with Trump Associates" because this reinforces the "Obama was wiretapping Trump" claim.
I've read some people claiming the New York Times is actually deleting some of it's previous stories from it's website because they support the wiretapping claim.
:)
@txradioguy
@CatherineofAragon
Just before Bob started working in the Intelligence Dept. of the Pentagon, someone outed our agents abroad and most of them were killed. The Dept. had to recruit new agents. I don't know what info. now was given out by Wickileaks, but if it puts our agents in danger, Assange needs to be taken out anyway that can happen.
@txradioguy
@CatherineofAragon
Just before Bob started working in the Intelligence Dept. of the Pentagon, someone outed our agents abroad and most of them were killed. The Dept. had to recruit new agents. I don't know what info. now was given out by Wickileaks, but if it puts our agents in danger, Assange needs to be taken out anyway that can happen.
Do you mean that only stupid people are the target audience?
@Victoria33 we knew for certain when I was in Afghanistan in 2010-11 that the Taliban had downloaded the WikiLeaks dump and were sussing through the data to out the rats in their midst. We had sources completely dry up and/or refuse to deal with us out of fear for their lives and that of their family. Taliban works like the Mob...they don't just kill you...they get your wife your kids your parents your cousins...you get the picture.
Assange and company made our lives and our jobs much harder. I mean it was bad enough that we had a POTUS outing our CIA station chief in Pakistan and putting a target on the backs of the SEALS that killed Bin Laden...WikiLeaks just made a bad situation worse and vice versa
I was all in favor of killing him and destroying his organization back then. He has moved the scale slightly back in the other direction for me, but I still think he should be made to answer for the consequences of what he has done.
Yes, his release of information got innocent people killed.
Wow, that wouldn't work with me. I expect a President to act like one. Those aren't minor errors.
@Victoria33 we knew for certain when I was in Afghanistan in 2010-11 that the Taliban had downloaded the WikiLeaks dump and were sussing through the data to out the rats in their midst. We had sources completely dry up and/or refuse to deal with us out of fear for their lives and that of their family. Taliban works like the Mob...they don't just kill you...they get your wife your kids your parents your cousins...you get the picture.
Assange and company made our lives and our jobs much harder. I mean it was bad enough that we had a POTUS outing our CIA station chief in Pakistan and putting a target on the backs of the SEALS that killed Bin Laden...WikiLeaks just made a bad situation worse and vice versa
And that really is why we should give what he says a wide berth. The more people fawn over his latest alleged document dump, the more credibility is given to him and the more it insulates him from seeing the kind of justice that needs to be served on him. At some point it runs the risk of turning him into a Martyr and he doesn't need that kind of status anymore than your local suicide bomber needs or deserves it.
In criminal law, there is this thing called the "exclusionary rule". Otherwise called "the fruit of a poisoned tree."
It is basically the premise that evidence must be excluded if it is not obtained legally. I have for years lamented the illogic of this premise because it achieves the absolute worst possible outcome.
Suppose you have a murderer regarding which irrefutable evidence is uncovered that he is a murderer. The man should be punished.
Suppose you have a cop that breaks the law in obtaining information which proves someone to be a murderer.
Should not the cop be punished for breaking the law?
As the current system stands, the murderer is freed, and the bad cop is ignored. No justice of any sort is achieved.
In a rational system, all information, no matter how obtained, should be used to shine the light of truth on the guilt or innocence of a man on trial.
If obtained illegally, the evidence shouldn't be thrown out, the person who committed the illegal act of obtaining it should be punished for having obtained it illegally.
Refusing to look at information because you don't like how it was acquired is foolish. Finding out what is the actual truth is always worthwhile, even if you don't like how it came into your hands.
I especially love how he now has the New York Slimes contradicting their own previous ""reporting"". It's priceless. And people (lots of) are now laughing out loud at them.
If Trump can take down the New York Times, he will have done conservatives the greatest favor they could ever have hoped for.
I hope he doesn't expect any thanks around here.
And what's to stop the next Democrat President from taking down Fox News, or the Daily Caller?
There is a lack of long range vision and understanding of double edged swords in this blood lust to see a President "take down" a media outlet.
No matter how vile they may be in our eyes...they are no less free to publish what they want than any Conservative news organization.
There's thing called the 1st Amendment that protects them all.
If Trump can take down the New York Times, he will have done conservatives the greatest favor they could ever have hoped for.
I hope he doesn't expect any thanks around here.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Break the rules...take short cuts pay the consequences. If your shoddy police work and crossing the line results in someone who should be locked up going free. And yes those kinds of cops do get punished...real life PD work isn't like The Shield.
And I am of the firm belief that there are certain things in the world of the military and/or intelligence services...that the average citizen doesn't need to know about. They need that secrecy and shadowy gray area to get things done in order to keep this country safe.
Do some of those trusted to do this abuse that power...most certainly...does that mean they are all bad...no.
And it doesn't give certain self identified "do gooders" the right to expose highly classified documents...assuming that is the case her...to Euroweenie asshats like Julian Assange.
And what's to stop the next Democrat President from taking down Fox News, or the Daily Caller?
There is a lack of long range vision and understanding of double edged swords in this blood lust to see a President "take down" a media outlet.
No matter how vile they may be in our eyes...they are no less free to publish what they want than any Conservative news organization.
There's thing called the 1st Amendment that protects them all.
Ah yes. Do I smell book burning? Only certain opinions are to be allowed?
And only those facts authorized by Bannon and co. are to be published.
Censorship is a two way sword.........that ought not be too difficult to understand.
Ah yes. Do I smell book burning? Only certain opinions are to be allowed?
And only those facts authorized by Bannon and co. are to be published.
Censorship is a two way sword.........that ought not be too difficult to understand.
The intent of the first amendment precludes monopolies. Till control on the "speech" system is broken, we are not abiding by the intent of the first amendment.
If there really was the stranglehold on news you claim there is by this shady Liberal cabal...NONE of the Conservative outlets would be allowed to exist.
If there really was the stranglehold on news you claim there is by this shady Liberal cabal...NONE of the Conservative outlets would be allowed to exist.
And what's to stop the next Democrat President from taking down Fox News, or the Daily Caller?
There is a lack of long range vision and understanding of double edged swords in this blood lust to see a President "take down" a media outlet.
No matter how vile they may be in our eyes...they are no less free to publish what they want than any Conservative news organization.
There's thing called the 1st Amendment that protects them all.
A lot of contradictory statements come out of the right about the vast media conspiracy. In one breath they say the left wing media is dying, in the next they claim the liberal media has control.
All these years of blaming the media for every problem have made them an easy cop out of a target.
Not everyone on the left is receptive of the right's message and there are a lot of really crappy salesmen on the right.
At the end of the day the media is powerless and the fault lands at the feet of the people.
And what's to stop the next Democrat President from taking down Fox News, or the Daily Caller?
There is a lack of long range vision and understanding of double edged swords in this blood lust to see a President "take down" a media outlet.
No matter how vile they may be in our eyes...they are no less free to publish what they want than any Conservative news organization.
There's thing called the 1st Amendment that protects them all.
Duh. I didn't mean literally take down as in burn the building to the ground or ban the paper.
I meant greatly lessen the influence of the New York Times. They've had way too much influence for years just because of their name and long ago reputation.
I think it is happening. I see really nasty responses on Facebook to posts from the New York Times. Of course, this is anecdotal but ....
They've done some damage to themselves. But there are too many Luddites willing to haul water for them.
And what's to stop the next Democrat President from taking down Fox News, or the Daily Caller?
Lol! But...but... but...
there's this thing (you guys are always harping about re: Trump) called....
CREDIBILITY.
(duh)
I hope you aren't suggesting that at this stage of the game Fox News has any more credibility than the NY Times.
Especially after this last election.
Doubt anyone ever saw a cable station or radio station for that matter, do a total reversal of all their supposed principles.
I hope you aren't suggesting that at this stage of the game Fox News has any more credibility than the NY Times.
Especially after this last election.
I hope you aren't suggesting that at this stage of the game Fox News has any more credibility than the NY Times.
Especially after this last election.
Clinton Aide Squeals: ‘Everyone Knew’ About Obama’s Illegal Wiretapping
http://yournewswire.com/clinton-obama-illegal-wiretapping/