The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Silver Pines on August 23, 2016, 01:38:31 pm
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Steve Bannon, Trump's Top Guy, Told Me He Was A 'Leninist' Who Wants To 'Destroy the State'
The Breitbart executive director turned GOP leader boasted at a party about his goal of destroying the conservative establishment.
By Ronald Radosh
08/23/16
Why has the Trump campaign taken as its new head a self-described Leninist?
I met Steve Bannon—the executive director of Breitbart.com who’s now become the chief executive of the Trump campaign, replacing the newly resigned Paul Manafort—at a book party held in his Capitol Hill townhouse in early 2014. We were standing next to a picture of his daughter, a West Point graduate, who at the time was a lieutenant in the 101 Airborne Division serving in Iraq. The picture was notable because she was sitting on what was once Saddam Hussein’s gold throne with a machine gun on her lap. “I’m very proud of her,” Bannon said.
Then we had a long talk about his approach to politics. He never called himself a “populist” or an “American nationalist,” as so many think of him today. “I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.
Shocked, I asked him what he meant.
“Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Bannon was employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals. He included in that group the Republican and Democratic Parties, as well as the traditional conservative press.
Read more at:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html)
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The problem is, what type of new party does Bannon envision?
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"Destroy the state", great... and then what? What comes after that, Mr. Bannon?
Funny how these "destroy the state" radicals never have an answer for that question. 10294
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"Destroy the state", great... and then what? What comes after that, Mr. Bannon?
Funny how these "destroy the state" radicals never have an answer for that question. 10294
Rebuild it in his utopian vision. If true, interesting he chose Trump as his vessel of choice.
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I dunno. Maybe.
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If true (big IF), a few precepts that distinguish Leninism from Marxism- very clear difference in application. Lenin called his approach the Vanguard or Democratic Centralism. (let's call these idea red flags to watch for any signs)..
The immediate aim...... is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: Formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.
As epitomised in the slogan “Freedom in Discussion, Unity in Action”, Lenin followed the example of the First International (IWA, International Workingmen’s Association, 1864–1876), and organised the Bolsheviks as a democratically centralised vanguard party, wherein free political-speech was recognised legitimate until policy consensus; afterwards, every member of the Party would be expected to uphold the official policy established in consensus. In the pamphlet Freedom to Criticise and Unity of Action (1905), Lenin said:
Of course, the application of this principle in practice will sometimes give rise to disputes and misunderstandings; but only on the basis of this principle can all disputes and all misunderstandings be settled honourably for the Party.... The principle of democratic centralism and autonomy for local Party organisations implies universal and full freedom to criticise, so long as this does not disturb the unity of a definite action; it rules out all criticism which disrupts or makes difficult the unity of an action decided on by the Party.
Lenin's simple definition of socialism is set out in his The Impending Catastrophe and How to Combat It (September 1917): "Socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the whole people".
...the dictatorship of the proletariat — i.e. the organisation of the vanguard of the oppressed as the ruling class for the purpose of crushing the oppressors.... An immense expansion of democracy, which for the first time becomes democracy for the poor, democracy for the people, and not democracy for the rich:... and suppression by force, i.e. exclusion from democracy, for the exploiters and oppressors of the people — this is the change which democracy undergoes during the ‘transition’ from capitalism to communism.
Democracy for the vast majority of the people, and suppression by force, i.e. exclusion from democracy, of the exploiters and oppressors of the people — this is the change democracy undergoes during the transition from capitalism to communism.
We fight against the privileges and violence of the oppressor nation, and do not in any way condone strivings for privileges on the part of the oppressed nation.... The bourgeois nationalism of any oppressed nation has a general democratic content that is directed against oppression, and it is this content that we unconditionally support. At the same time, we strictly distinguish it from the tendency towards national exclusiveness.... Can a nation be free if it oppresses other nations? It cannot...
...nothing holds up the development and strengthening of proletarian class solidarity so much as national injustice; “offended” nationals are not sensitive to anything, so much as to the feeling of equality, and the violation of this equality, if only through negligence or jest — to the violation of that equality by their proletarian comrades.
So what to look for? Extreme bottom up nationalism, call for centralized control, stressing the need for centralized control & collectivism but calling it capitalism and democracy. A stronger central government with more power in the top leader. Extreme populism, making the masses cry out for a leader. Use of the term and ideas of force more often. Distrust and dismantling of the current power structure to replace it with their own. Interestingly, Lenin was more isolationist versus Trotsky and Stalin looked externally for growth as a necessary means (Trotsky by supporting socialist revolutions and creating partnerships, Stalin by imperialism and growth through strength). Lenin thought the best growth was initially isolating and letting Russia grow his socialist utopia within and that in turn would trigger a domino effect as others would want to follow.
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"Destroy the state", great... and then what? What comes after that, Mr. Bannon?
Funny how these "destroy the state" radicals never have an answer for that question. 10294
He thinks that's a great idea till it all crashes down and he's living in Venezuela X10, scrapping for survival. Guy has no clue.
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Rebuild it in his utopian vision. If true, interesting he chose Trump as his vessel of choice.
L'etat, c'est moi!
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He thinks that's a great idea till it all crashes down and he's living in Venezuela X10, scrapping for survival. Guy has no clue.
Venezuela is a Trotsky inspired state in that, like Cuba, it is dependent on partnerships with other States to survive. Communists (and revolutionaries let's call them as they view themselves this way) don't believe that we have a Leninist State to hold up as an example (possibly China initially but Mao's cultural revolution took it down a different path and lately they have been reversing course on all that).
Stalin, and WWII, preempted the growth of Leninism. Stalin was imperialistic, Lenin was more isolationist. Stalin was not shy about calling Communism, Communism. Lenin used glorified terms like Vanguard, State Capitalism, Democratic Centralism. Lenin was bottom up while Stalin was top down.
Leninism is very dangerous in the point that the ends are the same as Marxism, the approach is different and much more populist. Because Stalin preempted it and took an iron hand approach, those who believe in Leninism believe their utopia was never allowed to grow - thus, they don't have negative examples to point to. It is subtle and dangerous.
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Yes, this admittedly could or could not be true, but I think the article is worth putting out there. If it is true, he would likely be the master behind the dull-witted puppet, Trump.
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Cloward Piven in action just as surely as SEIU head Andy Stern wants.
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Yes, this admittedly could or could not be true, but I think the article is worth putting out there. If it is true, he would likely be the master behind the dull-witted puppet, Trump.
Many of those in the top classes support Leninism/Marxism in various forms (even by another name) because it gives them the one thing they can't easily buy, power. They can buy all the cars, women, and houses they want, and that gets boring after a while, so they start craving power. Their egos are such that they know best (or so they think) and they just need the power to be able to help everyone (in their minds). But they can't do that without power.
Why do you think the Warren Buffets and Bill Gates of the world support Socialism in some form? They know they are protected, but they can control it more. Pure Capitalism means they have to compete in the market of ideas, Collectivism/Socialism/Whateverism gives them the power to control and mold things the way they want, outside having to actually sell their ideas in the market.
Trump is dangerous in that he has the desire for power with the centralized control way of getting it, but he also knows how to manipulate the masses via populism- so in a sense, the Leninism statements kind of make sense and why they would be drawn to him.
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The common-denominator of nearly everyone running - is Leftist. Hildabeast's overt Marxist Communism; Johnson's Statist Socialism (his carbon tax plan is more aggressive than Obama's); and Trump's Nationalist Populist Lenninist Fascism.
Remember what I told you folks about that velvet coup that everyone pretends never took place.
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Many of those in the top classes support Leninism/Marxism in various forms (even by another name) because it gives them the one thing they can't easily buy, power. They can buy all the cars, women, and houses they want, and that gets boring after a while, so they start craving power. Their egos are such that they know best (or so they think) and they just need the power to be able to help everyone (in their minds). But they can't do that without power.
Why do you think the Warren Buffets and Bill Gates of the world support Socialism in some form? They know they are protected, but they can control it more. Pure Capitalism means they have to compete in the market of ideas, Collectivism/Socialism/Whateverism gives them the power to control and mold things the way they want, outside having to actually sell their ideas in the market.
Trump is dangerous in that he has the desire for power with the centralized control way of getting it, but he also knows how to manipulate the masses via populism- so in a sense, the Leninism statements kind of make sense and why they would be drawn to him.
In my opinion Trump is just a typical Fabian socialist. Fabian socialism is the socialism of the rich who want to remake the world to make themselves even richer and the rest of us are little more than obstacles to be overcome. Its long had a home in the London School of Economics. The fabian window hangs with prestige at the London School of Economics today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Window
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L'etat, c'est moi!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Louis_XIV_of_France.jpg/800px-Louis_XIV_of_France.jpg)
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In my opinion Trump is just a typical Fabian socialist. Fabian socialism is the socialism of the rich who want to remake the world to make themselves even richer and the rest of us are little more than obstacles to be overcome. Its long had a home in the London School of Economics. The fabian window hangs with prestige at the London School of Economics today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Window
And, here is said Fabian window. (You should be able to click on it for the larger pic)
(https://s16-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Favangelista.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F10%2Ffabian_window_2.jpg&sp=158674ada05c2f563950006d67d84277)
They are clearly worshiping their agenda.
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Steve Bannon, Trump's Top Guy, Told Me He Was A 'Leninist' Who Wants To 'Destroy the State'
The Breitbart executive director turned GOP leader boasted at a party about his goal of destroying the conservative establishment.
By Ronald Radosh
08/23/16
Why has the Trump campaign taken as its new head a self-described Leninist?
I met Steve Bannon—the executive director of Breitbart.com who’s now become the chief executive of the Trump campaign, replacing the newly resigned Paul Manafort—at a book party held in his Capitol Hill townhouse in early 2014. We were standing next to a picture of his daughter, a West Point graduate, who at the time was a lieutenant in the 101 Airborne Division serving in Iraq. The picture was notable because she was sitting on what was once Saddam Hussein’s gold throne with a machine gun on her lap. “I’m very proud of her,” Bannon said.
Then we had a long talk about his approach to politics. He never called himself a “populist” or an “American nationalist,” as so many think of him today. “I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.
Shocked, I asked him what he meant.
“Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Bannon was employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals. He included in that group the Republican and Democratic Parties, as well as the traditional conservative press.
Read more at:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html)
So.....what the hell was Bannon doing working at Breitbart then.....considering that Andrew Breitbart was the very definition of "conservative". Wouldn't that have been the very definition of the "enemy within" then? And even now? But then.... there's a lot of that going around these days.
That Trump now employs the azhole speaks volumes.
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An interesting quote by H.G. Wells- A worship of the god called society has become a new religion. No matter what insult to our dignity or liberty, we are told it’s necessary for the advancement of society, and
that has become the basis for contentment under the hardships of collectivism. The greater good for the greater number has become the opiate of the masses.
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Many of those in the top classes support Leninism/Marxism in various forms (even by another name) because it gives them the one thing they can't easily buy, power. They can buy all the cars, women, and houses they want, and that gets boring after a while, so they start craving power. Their egos are such that they know best (or so they think) and they just need the power to be able to help everyone (in their minds). But they can't do that without power.
Why do you think the Warren Buffets and Bill Gates of the world support Socialism in some form? They know they are protected, but they can control it more. Pure Capitalism means they have to compete in the market of ideas, Collectivism/Socialism/Whateverism gives them the power to control and mold things the way they want, outside having to actually sell their ideas in the market.
Trump is dangerous in that he has the desire for power with the centralized control way of getting it, but he also knows how to manipulate the masses via populism- so in a sense, the Leninism statements kind of make sense and why they would be drawn to him.
Indeed! Why else would we have a tax system endorsed by Marx and Engels in their Manifesto of the Communist Party?
The following is directly quoted from “The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx chapter II. “Proletarians and Communists” page 7. (The section in which fellow travelers are instructed as to how they should go about taking over developed countries.)
“The proletariat will use its political supremacy top wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organized as the ruling class; and to increase the total of productive forces as rapidly as possible. Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionizing the mode of production. These measures will of course be different in different countries. Nevertheless in the most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.
When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class. In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.”
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And, here is said Fabian window. (You should be able to click on it for the larger pic)
"Remould it (The world) nearer to the heart's desire"
The fabian Society founded the London School of economics.
You must all know half a dozen people at least who are no use in this world, who are more trouble than they are worth. Just put them there and say Sir, or Madam, now will you be kind enough to justify your existence? If you can’t justify your existence, if you’re not pulling your weight in the social boat, if you’re not producing as much as you consume or perhaps a little more, then, clearly, we cannot use the organizations of our society for the purpose of keeping you alive, because your life does not benefit us and it can’t be of very much use to yourself. -Fabian Socialist George Bernard Shaw
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An interesting quote by H.G. Wells- A worship of the god called society has become a new religion. No matter what insult to our dignity or liberty, we are told it’s necessary for the advancement of society, and
that has become the basis for contentment under the hardships of collectivism. The greater good for the greater number has become the opiate of the masses.
H.G. Wells was a founding member of the Fabian Society!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society
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So.....what the hell was Bannon doing working at Breitbart then.....considering that Andrew Breitbart was the very definition of "conservative". Wouldn't that have been the very definition of the "enemy within" then? And even now? But then.... there's a lot of that going around these days.
That Trump now employs the azhole speaks volumes.
If I remember correctly, Bannon was a personal friend of Andrew Breitbart, and I'm not sure how he came to be in charge after Andrew's death.
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H.G. Wells was a founding member of the Fabian Society!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society
Yep, that's how I stumbled on it. We read that like a negative or a warning, Wells wrote that like a goal, that was his replacement for religion, the worship of society.
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Yep, that's how I stumbled on it. We read that like a negative or a warning, Wells wrote that like a goal, that was his replacement for religion, the worship of society.
I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said "Are we not Gods in the making"
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If I remember correctly, Bannon was a personal friend of Andrew Breitbart, and I'm not sure how he came to be in charge after Andrew's death.
Well....obviously.....Andrew should have chosen his close, personal friends a bit more wisely.
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In my opinion Trump is just a typical Fabian socialist. Fabian socialism is the socialism of the rich who want to remake the world to make themselves even richer and the rest of us are little more than obstacles to be overcome. Its long had a home in the London School of Economics. The fabian window hangs with prestige at the London School of Economics today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Window
@Cripplecreek
@AbaraXas
The early Fabians were proponents of eugenics, as well. Trump and his sons admit to being believers in the "racehorse theory', which is nothing more than eugenics.
Trump, Jr:
“Like him, (Trump) I’m a big believer in race-horse theory. He’s an incredibly accomplished guy, my mother’s incredibly accomplished, she’s an Olympian, so I’d like to believe genetically I’m predisposed to [be] better than average.”
https://kevishere.com/2016/02/02/trump-ed-up-genes/ (https://kevishere.com/2016/02/02/trump-ed-up-genes/)
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I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said "Are we not Gods in the making"
Yet another member of the Fabian Society!
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Yep, that's how I stumbled on it. We read that like a negative or a warning, Wells wrote that like a goal, that was his replacement for religion, the worship of society.
Yes, and Wells wrote "The Food of the Gods and How It Came to Earth" which pretty clearly set out an ideal Fabian society. I remember being somewhat shocked by some of the ideas when I read it as a youngster.
Oh, and this guy was just on Glenn Beck's show. I didn't get to hear what he said.
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L'etat, c'est moi!
Après moi le déluge.
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Yet another member of the Fabian Society!
Yeah, Shaw was a real scumbag. The SoB blamed the victims of communism for their murders.
But the most elaborate code of this sort would still have left unspecified a hundred ways in which wreckers of Communism could have sidetracked it without ever having to face the essential questions: are you pulling your weight in the social boat? are you giving more trouble than you are worth? have you earned the privilege of living in a civilized community? That is why the Russians were forced to set up an Inquisition or Star Chamber, called at first the Cheka and now the Gay Pay Oo (Ogpu), to go into these questions and "liquidate" persons who could not answer them satisfactorily.
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The problem is, what type of new party does Bannon envision?
A tea party?
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Après moi le déluge.
Yet another Louis XV expression!
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Most of you have railed against the current political system and the the complicit media for years yet, now that someone wants to change it.......
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Yeah, Shaw was a real scumbag. The SoB blamed the victims of communism for their murders.
But the most elaborate code of this sort would still have left unspecified a hundred ways in which wreckers of Communism could have sidetracked it without ever having to face the essential questions: are you pulling your weight in the social boat? are you giving more trouble than you are worth? have you earned the privilege of living in a civilized community? That is why the Russians were forced to set up an Inquisition or Star Chamber, called at first the Cheka and now the Gay Pay Oo (Ogpu), to go into these questions and "liquidate" persons who could not answer them satisfactorily.
He was far from alone in doing that!
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I am heartened to learn that a few of my fellow posters here seem to be up to speed on this stuff.
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I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said "Are we not Gods in the making"
Shaw supported eugenics too
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A tea party?
Bannon hated the Tea Party.
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A tea party?
More like.....a Mad Hatter Party.....sans hat.
(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M887dad4372007a4f539af284e02e70bfo0&w=300&h=200&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0)
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Interesting, Bannon is a big amnesty guy.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,221824.0.html
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I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said "Are we not Gods in the making"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shaw the one who advocated a governmental program in which you would have to prove your worth to society or be "euthanized"?
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@Cripplecreek
CC, never mind, you already answered that question...I should have read through.
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Yes, and Wells wrote "The Food of the Gods and How It Came to Earth" which pretty clearly set out an ideal Fabian society. I remember being somewhat shocked by some of the ideas when I read it as a youngster.
Oh, and this guy was just on Glenn Beck's show. I didn't get to hear what he said.
I turned him on toward the end of the interview, too. I'll post the link to the podcast in this thread when it's available.
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Bannon hated the Tea Party.
Just like Trump.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shaw the one who advocated a governmental program in which you would have to prove your worth to society or be "euthanized"?
Sounds like the "N word" ......that we dare not speak of..... to me. And no, this "N word" has nothing to do with the black race.
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Most of you have railed against the current political system and the the complicit media for years yet, now that someone wants to change it.......
Not all change is good. It must be change back to the ideals of this country and it must be carried out in the right fashion.
“There was just such a man when I was young—an Austrian who invented a new way of life and convinced himself that he was the chap to make it work. He tried to impose his reformation by the sword, and plunged the civilized world into misery and chaos. But the thing which this fellow had overlooked, my friend, was that he had a predecessor in the reformation business, called Jesus Christ. Perhaps we may assume that Jesus knew as much as the Austrian did about saving people. But the odd thing is that Jesus did not turn the disciples into storm troopers, burn down the Temple at Jerusalem, and fix the blame on Pontius Pilate. On the contrary, he made it clear that the business of the philosopher was to make ideas available, and not to impose them on people.”
― Merlin from The Once and Future King by T. H. White
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Sounds like the "N word" ......that we dare not speak of..... to me. And no, this "N word" has nothing to do with the black race.
Right? It reeks.
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Most of you have railed against the current political system and the the complicit media for years yet, now that someone wants to change it.......
Again, I ask the question, "Change it into what?" Saying you're for change isn't enough... after all, Obama did that. Let's hear the plan for what comes after, if there is one.
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Again, I ask the question, "Change it into what?" Saying you're for change isn't enough... after all, Obama did that. Let's hear the plan for what comes after, if there is one.
Jumping out of the frying pan into the fire isn't a good idea!
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Most of you have railed against the current political system and the the complicit media for years yet, now that someone wants to change it.......
Change for change sake isn't always good. Often, when people take radical action because they 'hope for change', the consequences are worse. Bernie Sanders rails against the current political system, but we don't want the change he is promising. George Soros and the Fabians rail against the current political system and promise change. Do you want their change?
When a cancerous tumor changes to become malignant, that change is not good.
When HIV changes your immune system and becomes AIDs, that change is not good.
Often people are so obsessed with change, they overlook what they are changing to.
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Change for change sake isn't always good. Often, when people take radical action because they 'hope for change', the consequences are worse. Bernie Sanders rails against the current political system, but we don't want the change he is promising. George Soros and the Fabians rail against the current political system and promise change. Do you want their change?
When a cancerous tumor changes to become malignant, that change is not good.
When HIV changes your immune system and becomes AIDs, that change is not good.
Often people are so obsessed with change, they overlook what they are changing to.
Put shortly and undramatically the case is that a civilization cannot progress without criticism, and must therefore, to save itself from stagnation and putrefaction, declare impunity for criticism. This means impunity not only for propositions which, however novel, seem interesting, statesmanlike, and respectable, but for propositions that shock the uncritical as obscene, seditious, blasphemous, heretical, and revolutionary. George Bernard Shaw
Change for the sake of change.
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Jumping out of the frying pan into the fire isn't a good idea!
And choosing between one hellish future or another isn't a good "choice". Yet.....some would have us believe that we have a 'good choice'. Yeah. Great. Great "again".
So America now has a "choice" between a totalitarian nationalist (channeling Adolph?)....
and a Maoism communist.
It's always sooo nice to have a choice, eh?
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And choosing between one hellish future or another isn't a good "choice". Yet.....some would have us believe that we have a 'good choice'. Yeah. Great. Great "again".
So America now has a "choice" between a totalitarian nationalist (channeling Adolph?)....
and a Maoism communist.
It's always sooo nice to have a choice, eh?
And now you know what William F Buckley's statement about Conservationism as standing athwart history yelling Stop! means. It wasn't about stopping technology or innovation.
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And now you know what William F Buckley's statement about Conservationism as standing athwart history yelling Stop! means. It wasn't about stopping technology or innovation.
Of course not. But, correct me if I'm wrong......wasn't Buckley being demonized at TOS by the Trumpists ......all in the name of protecting, defending and mostly pushing their little tin god as the ""answer to our prayers""? Coulda sworn....
Even the most stalwart and respected conservatives have been trashed ....all in the name of forcing The Don upon America.
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In my opinion Trump is just a typical Fabian socialist. Fabian socialism is the socialism of the rich who want to remake the world to make themselves even richer and the rest of us are little more than obstacles to be overcome.
All of them are the bastard children of Fabians, under whichever doctrine of Statism they prefer.
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The problem is, what type of new party does Bannon envision?
A Lemon Party.
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Not all change is good. It must be change back to the ideals of this country and it must be carried out in the right fashion.
“There was just such a man when I was young—an Austrian who invented a new way of life and convinced himself that he was the chap to make it work. He tried to impose his reformation by the sword, and plunged the civilized world into misery and chaos. But the thing which this fellow had overlooked, my friend, was that he had a predecessor in the reformation business, called Jesus Christ. Perhaps we may assume that Jesus knew as much as the Austrian did about saving people. But the odd thing is that Jesus did not turn the disciples into storm troopers, burn down the Temple at Jerusalem, and fix the blame on Pontius Pilate. On the contrary, he made it clear that the business of the philosopher was to make ideas available, and not to impose them on people.”
― Merlin from The Once and Future King by T. H. White
One of my favorite books.
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One of my favorite books.
Mine too. It explains everything (well almost). It's achieved status in at least my 'top 10 books I recommend everyone read' if not in the top 5.
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Most of you have railed against the current political system and the the complicit media for years yet, now that someone wants to change it.......
Trump is not talking about change BACK to Constitutional republicanism, or facilitating change from within the bounds of Constitutionality - Trump offers 'change' in the context of mobocracy and decree or diktat.
Makes him as bad or worse than Hillary in my estimation.
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A Lemon Party.
...and for those of the more innocent persuasion, do not Google that.
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Trump is not talking about change BACK to Constitutional republicanism, or facilitating change from within the bounds of Constitutionality - Trump offers 'change' in the context of mobocracy and decree or diktat.
Makes him as bad or worse than Hillary in my estimation.
The Constitution is worthless to the Trumpists, just ask Laura Ingraham (Professor of Heiling Salutes at Trump University)
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...and for those of the more innocent persuasion, do not Google that.
So you're saying that Bannon is a Lemonist?
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So you're saying that Bannon is a Lemonist?
One word:
"Milo"
You tell me.
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Again, I ask the question, "Change it into what?" Saying you're for change isn't enough... after all, Obama did that. Let's hear the plan for what comes after, if there is one.
To an actual two party system and a media that was unbiased and actually kept POLs on their toes.
Make America Great AGAIN!
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Change for change sake isn't always good. Often, when people take radical action because they 'hope for change', the consequences are worse. Bernie Sanders rails against the current political system, but we don't want the change he is promising. George Soros and the Fabians rail against the current political system and promise change. Do you want their change?
When a cancerous tumor changes to become malignant, that change is not good.
When HIV changes your immune system and becomes AIDs, that change is not good.
Often people are so obsessed with change, they overlook what they are changing to.
But, y'all were all for it before. I want it back the way it was before the Progressives made it the way it is now. [100+ years]
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Trump is not talking about change BACK to Constitutional republicanism, or facilitating change from within the bounds of Constitutionality - Trump offers 'change' in the context of mobocracy and decree or diktat.
Makes him as bad or worse than Hillary in my estimation.
How would you go about changing what the Progressives have accomplished.
I don't even see anyone coming close to changing a thing. As a matter of fact, most of you [including myself on occasion] are frightened by change.
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To an actual two party system and a media that was unbiased and actually kept POLs on their toes.
Make America Great AGAIN!
... I'd laugh, but you seem serious.
*hmmmm*
... well OK, good luck with that.
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... I'd laugh, but you seem serious.
*hmmmm*
... well OK, good luck with that.
Then you have nothing. [but a fake Indian name]
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But, y'all were all for it before. I want it back the way it was before the Progressives made it the way it is now. [100+ years]
I don't know what you mean by 'y'all were all for it before', I don't know of anyone here who was after the kind of change that Obama brought and has been wrought for a while. If you want 'it' back, the last thing you should want is a corrupt, cronyist, big government guy who disregards the Constitution and just plays the DC game.
I guess you didn't see today, he totally flip flopped on Immigration saying that his plan would be very much like Obama's plan. How about those apples?
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I don't know what you mean by 'y'all were all for it before', I don't know of anyone here who was after the kind of change that Obama brought and has been wrought for a while. If you want 'it' back, the last thing you should want is a corrupt, cronyist, big government guy who disregards the Constitution and just plays the DC game.
I guess you didn't see today, he totally flip flopped on Immigration saying that his plan would be very much like Obama's plan. How about those apples?
I'm sure more than a few voters would like that change of stance.
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Got a link?
Here you go.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,221856.0.html
His own interview with Bill O'Reilly last night- his own words, not someone speculating what he means by them. There is a lot more at the link from that thread too. He is turning so fast to the left, you would think he drives for NASCAR.
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Here you go.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,221856.0.html
His own interview with Bill O'Reilly last night- his own words, not someone speculating what he means by them. There is a lot more at the link from that thread too. He is turning so fast to the left, you would think he drives for NASCAR.
Obama has deported more than any POTUS. I would imagine most people would want that to continue. Might get trump more votes.
His big thing has always been the Wall.
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Obama has deported more than any POTUS. I would imagine most people would want that to continue. Might get trump more votes.
His big thing has always been the Wall.
Except he hasn't. Even the liberal LA Times says he lies about this. Deportations are actually down 40%.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html
So Trump, in his own words, wants to keep doing the same.
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Obama has deported more than any POTUS. I would imagine most people would want that to continue. Might get trump more votes.
His big thing has always been the Wall.
Where on earth did you get that idea?
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Then you have nothing. [but a fake Indian name]
I tried to stay polite, but ok.
Your idea that electing Trump can fix everything wrong with the U.S. is simple-minded in the extreme. We've gotten to where we are through a process of deteriorating formal and moral education over the last 50-60 years. The only way to turn it around is to change the way we are educating our children, and then to continue educating them properly for 40 years or so. If we do that, the country will correct itself naturally.
I don't expect it to happen. No candidate has identified the problem, let alone proposed the correct solutions. So I expect that the country will continue its downward spiral regardless of the outcome of this election.
If you think that electing Trump will change any of that, well... good luck to you. You'll need it.
I guess I still managed to stay polite, mostly... and I only had to "bite my tongue" two or three times...
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How would you go about changing what the Progressives have accomplished.
Supporting a strong-man budding dictator who has indicated he will rule by decree, utilize the politics of personal destruction and intimidation to get his way simply because that is how he conducted his private industry is anathema to everything I believe in and stand for.
It took a 100 years for the Fabian Socialists to get us to this point. We're not going to be able to change what they have accomplished in one, two, five or ten election cycles. More than half the population WANTS Statism and Communism.
Change the culture - you will eventually change the government. Voting is not how you do that.
It's how despots are made and genocides are waged.
I don't even see anyone coming close to changing a thing. As a matter of fact, most of you [including myself on occasion] are frightened by change.
Interesting. That was the same criticism Obama gave the country in 2008.
We don't want change for 'change' sake. We're not interested in vengeance Populism. We want to REVERT the government back to it's Constitutional bounds and limitations. We're not interested in a 'glorious' destroy-it-all revolution whereby we will rebuild the nation in Trump's image, or Hildabeast's image and simply move chairs around on the deck and appoint a monarchy and dynasty to rule us.
Little to none of that is going to happen at the ballot box.
A people have to be educated about the responsibilities of maintaining liberty before they can have it.
Trump and Hildabeast merely divide this people further against one another.
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We've gotten to where we are through a process of deteriorating formal and moral education over the last 50-60 years. The only way to turn it around is to change the way we are educating our children, and then to continue educating them properly for 40 years or so. If we do that, the country will correct itself naturally.
I don't expect it to happen. No candidate has identified the problem, let alone proposed the correct solutions. So I expect that the country will continue its downward spiral regardless of the outcome of this election.
Every time I speak to a politician I make sure to suggest that they include a civics and constitutional principles proficiency requirement for graduating high school to any education bill they vote on. It causes democrats to scream bloody murder so you know its the right thing to do.
Ted Cruz's former Michigan campaign chair is state senator Pat Colbeck has some very solid education proposals of his own. Things like eliminating social studies and returning to teaching civics and geography as separate courses, teach more and better American history + a civics and constitutional principles proficiency requirement.
When my great grandmother "graduated" in the 9th grade she had a better education than most take to college these days.
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To an actual two party system and a media that was unbiased and actually kept POLs on their toes.
Make America Great AGAIN!
Oh, yeah. Trumps the guy to do that for sure!
I don't understand where people get this idea Trump is some wildcard. He's been a lifelong liberal. He's on record praising Billzebubba as a great President, he's on record praising Hillary Clinton as secretary of State, he was a registered Democrat during Obama first term, he's on record against the first and second amendments, he's on record wanting to raise taxes, he's on record wanting to raise minimum wage, he's on record supporting the individual mandate of Obama care, and he started his campaign because of a phone call with the Clintons. I am 100% certain Trump is a lifelong liberal democrat with an R behind his name in this race acting out the crazy caricatures of what he thinks conservatives are (ie. a bigoted, racist, foulmouthed jerk) so that Hillary can win. We've been had.
If we want an opposition party let's start by picking people who have ZERO connection to the Clintons. That shouldn't be so hard.
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Then you have nothing. [but a fake Indian name]
Is yours a real Indian name there Wolf Curry?
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I'm sure more than a few voters would like that change of stance.
Trump has the best positions, because Trump has ALL the positions. :whistle:
With Trump you just never know if he was lying then or lying now.
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Obama has deported more than any POTUS. I would imagine most people would want that to continue. Might get trump more votes.
His big thing has always been the Wall.
A virtual wall with a big beautiful door in it. I can't wait. I've yet to see anyone explain how we are going to wall the Rio Grande.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/rick-perry-trumps-border-wall-will-only-be-a-virtual-wall/
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Is yours a real Indian name there Wolf Curry?
As the only real Native American here (that I'm aware of), I want y'all to stop appropratifying my culturdentification. If you want Indian names, I will assign them. Until then, Wolfcreek will be known as White Bread and Mayo and Ghost Bear is to be known as Three Week Old Kitten. So it shall be.
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As the only real Native American here (that I'm aware of), I want y'all to stop appropratifying my culturdentification. If you want Indian names, I will assign them. Until then, Wolfcreek will be known as White Bread and Mayo and Ghost Bear is to be known as Three Week Old Kitten. So it shall be.
I could change my board name to Kermode Bear, but no one would know what I meant, and then I'd always be explaining it. And Ghost Bear sounds cool. :shrug:
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that although my avatar image came up in a Google image search for "ghost bear", it actually is of a polar bear. The head and muzzle shape to me looks more "polar" then "Kermode". But again, it fit what I was looking for... so, you know, mea culpa, and all that.
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I could change my board name to Kermode Bear, but no one would know what I meant, and then I'd always be explaining it. And Ghost Bear sounds cool. :shrug:
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that although my avatar image came up in a Google image search for "ghost bear", it actually is of a polar bear. The head and muzzle shape to me looks more "polar" then "Kermode". But again, it fit what I was looking for... so, you know, mea culpa, and all that.
As long as this isn't a Kodiak moment. Don't worry we will all bear with you. :tongue2:
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As long as this isn't a Kodiak moment. Don't worry we will all bear with you. :tongue2:
Augh, puns! My only weakness! :thud:
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Except he hasn't. Even the liberal LA Times says he lies about this. Deportations are actually down 40%.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html
So Trump, in his own words, wants to keep doing the same.
He said Obama AND Bush.
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As long as this isn't a Kodiak moment. Don't worry we will all bear with you. :tongue2:
What?
Nobody wants to be Huggy Bear?
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Supporting a strong-man budding dictator who has indicated he will rule by decree, utilize the politics of personal destruction and intimidation to get his way simply because that is how he conducted his private industry is anathema to everything I believe in and stand for.
It took a 100 years for the Fabian Socialists to get us to this point. We're not going to be able to change what they have accomplished in one, two, five or ten election cycles. More than half the population WANTS Statism and Communism.
Change the culture - you will eventually change the government. Voting is not how you do that.
It's how despots are made and genocides are waged.
Interesting. That was the same criticism Obama gave the country in 2008.
We don't want change for 'change' sake. We're not interested in vengeance Populism. We want to REVERT the government back to it's Constitutional bounds and limitations. We're not interested in a 'glorious' destroy-it-all revolution whereby we will rebuild the nation in Trump's image, or Hildabeast's image and simply move chairs around on the deck and appoint a monarchy and dynasty to rule us.
Little to none of that is going to happen at the ballot box.
A people have to be educated about the responsibilities of maintaining liberty before they can have it.
Trump and Hildabeast merely divide this people further against one another.
Same sort of thinking for those who believe in conditional warfare. There are ways to quickly change the course this country is on but, it has to start somewhere.
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He said Obama AND Bush.
Now, that's just weak, WB&M.
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I'm bookmarking this thread because in the first three or so pages, it was brilliant.
I am SO thankful for the educated, intelligent conversation that took place here, and I'm coming back to soak it all in again.
(Too bad it was hijacked. Again. But before that, brilliant! THANK you, TBR conservatives! I'm proud to be a part of this place!)
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Same sort of thinking for those who believe in conditional warfare. There are ways to quickly change the course this country is on but, it has to start somewhere.
So you want a bloodbath.
We figured as much.
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As the only real Native American here (that I'm aware of), I want y'all to stop appropratifying my culturdentification. If you want Indian names, I will assign them. Until then, Wolfcreek will be known as White Bread and Mayo and Ghost Bear is to be known as Three Week Old Kitten. So it shall be.
I shall be known as "The Chicken Who Clucks at Goats."
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I shall be known as "The Chicken Who Clucks at Goats."
I'm afraid my native American name would get me banned. :whistle:
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As the only real Native American here (that I'm aware of)
*scoffs*
My dad's father's mother was pure Choctaw! or dad's father's wife was or something.... anyway, I'm 8756473654543 calculating 8576546537563 some part Choctaw and I demand to own the state of Oklahoma!
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So you want a bloodbath.
We figured as much.
WE? You got a frog in your pocket?
You're full of excuses when it comes to change of any sort. 'I' figured as much.
Watch and see what happens after you guys help get Hillary elected and she tries to trash the 2nd.
There will be a blood bath but, it will be the Lord's doing.
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WE? You got a frog in your pocket?
You're full of excuses when it comes to change of any sort. 'I' figured as much.
Watch and see what happens after you guys help get Hillary elected and she tries to trash the 2nd.
There will be a blood bath but, it will be the Lord's doing.
Trump will do exactly the same thing, albeit for different stated reasons. He is already on record of having supported an AWB.
Goose-stepping to Trump is not any kind of change I want anything to do with.
As to a blood-bath, there is all the glee and promises of death for treason your compatriots are insisting is coming upon those of us who will not seig-heil your prince from other fora and social groups. Hillary has no monopoly on consequences in blood for her actions.
So I will work tirelessly to oppose Il Douche, his plans to militarize the police, kill the first Amendment via punitive decrees to punish his critics via lawsuits and expanding libel laws to give him power over speech and protest.
In my view, Trump is worse than The Mao Pantsuit.
At least she is an enemy we can clearly see and oppose without any confusion.
Your Trump is just Hillary's Trojan Horse.
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Trump will do exactly the same thing, albeit for different stated reasons. He is already on record of having supported an AWB.
Goose-stepping to Trump is not any kind of change I want anything to do with.
As to a blood-bath, there is all the glee and promises of death for treason your compatriots are insisting is coming upon those of us who will not seig-heil your prince from other fora and social groups. Hillary has no monopoly on consequences in blood for her actions.
So I will work tirelessly to oppose Il Douche, his plans to militarize the police, kill the first Amendment via punitive decrees to punish his critics via lawsuits and expanding libel laws to give him power over speech and protest.
In my view, Trump is worse than The Mao Pantsuit.
At least she is an enemy we can clearly see and oppose without any confusion.
Your Trump is just Hillary's Trojan Horse.
OK you convinced me. Lets all get behind Hillary and drive this country into the MOFO ground. We don't deserve better. :smokin: :smokin:
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OK you convinced me. Lets all get behind Hillary and drive this country into the MOFO ground. ....
Isn't that exactly the point?
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OK you convinced me. Lets all get behind Hillary and drive this country into the MOFO ground. We don't deserve better. :smokin: :smokin:
That's what you've done by supporting Trump. That's exactly what you've done. If you had listened to reason and common sense during the primaries instead of your own fear and the seductive lies told you by a consummate grifter, we wouldn't be here now, staring the prospect of "President Hillary Clinton" in the face.
Good job, Trumpkin, good job.
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"Destroy the state", great... and then what? What comes after that, Mr. Bannon?
Funny how these "destroy the state" radicals never have an answer for that question. 10294
Anarchy.
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That's what you've done by supporting Trump. That's exactly what you've done. If you had listened to reason and common sense during the primaries instead of your own fear and the seductive lies told you by a consummate grifter, we wouldn't be here now, staring the prospect of "President Hillary Clinton" in the face.
Good job, Trumpkin, good job.
Are you stupid or just can't read. I VOTED FOR CRUZ
Now the only choice to defeat Hillary is Trump.
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Make America Great AGAIN!
Donny and The Trumpkins can't even come up with an original slogan.
(http://www.truthnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/reegun.jpeg)
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Donny and The Trumpkins can't even come up with an original slogan.
(http://www.truthnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/reegun.jpeg)
It didn't take after Reagan so, lets try again.
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Are you stupid or just can't read. I VOTED FOR CRUZ
Sure you did.
That's why you have been militantly shilling for Trump with an energy that I doubt you applied in-kind for the one you insist you voted for in the primary.
Now the only choice to defeat Hillary is Trump.
That's funny right there.
To think a Trojan Stalking Horse is there to defeat the one who sent him.
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Sure you did.
That's why you have been militantly shilling for Trump with an energy that I doubt you applied in-kind for the one you insist you voted for in the primary.
That's funny right there.
To think a Trojan Stalking Horse is there to defeat the one who sent him.
If you think preaching to your sorry excuse for a patriot butt, on this little site is "militantly shilling", you think way too much of yourself. I just trying to save y'all from Hillary and being seen as quitters.
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If you think preaching to your sorry excuse for a patriot butt, on this little site is "militantly shilling", you think way too much of yourself. I just trying to save y'all from Hillary and being seen as quitters.
You aren't going to save anyone from squat - least of all yourself. That said, it's a high and mighty opinion you have of yourself to think you have the power to save us simply by voting for a cult of personality.
Besides, we don't care how we're 'seen'.
We're governed by principles, not by what you people think of us.
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If you think preaching to your sorry excuse for a patriot butt, on this little site is "militantly shilling", you think way too much of yourself. I just trying to save y'all from Hillary and being seen as quitters.
I'm so glad the world has people like you and Trump around to tell us how to think. :whistle: Before I make any decision I always ask myself: What will ole Wolf Curry think of this?
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You aren't going to save anyone from squat - least of all yourself. That said, it's a high and mighty opinion you have of yourself to think you have the power to save us simply by voting for a cult of personality.
Besides, we don't care how we're 'seen'.
We're governed by principles, not by what you people think of us.
They'll never grasp that. You have to have principles to understand people who have them.
These folks are "malleable."
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You aren't going to save anyone from squat - least of all yourself. That said, it's a high and mighty opinion you have of yourself to think you have the power to save us simply by voting for a cult of personality.
Besides, we don't care how we're 'seen'.
We're governed by principles, not by what you people think of us.
Just how many frogs do you have in your pocket. Mr. WE?
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I'm so glad the world has people like you and Trump around to tell us how to think. :whistle: Before I make any decision I always ask myself: What will ole Wolf Curry think of this?
Wolf Curry thinks anyone who doesn't do their damnedest to keep Hillary out of office is an accessory, after the fact, to her crimes she has committed against this country.
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I'm so glad the world has people like you and Trump around to tell us how to think. :whistle: Before I make any decision I always ask myself: What will ole Wolf Curry think of this?
BTW: why are you quoting one Fabian Socialist and one who was one for 20 years?
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Wolf Curry thinks anyone who doesn't do their damnedest to keep Hillary out of office is an accessory, after the fact, to her crimes she has committed against this country.
Now all you need is someone who cares what Wolf Curry thinks!
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Wolf Curry thinks anyone who doesn't do their damnedest to keep Hillary out of office is an accessory, after the fact, to her crimes she has committed against this country.
We will be waiting for tyrants like you to attempt to bring your brand of "justice" to those of us who refuse to vote for whom you demand we vote for, thus making us "accessories" to 'crimes against the country'.
No wonder you people were so vitriolic over references to Trump and Mussolini or Hitler; we were hitting too close to the mark.
Thanks for illustrating why I believe you people and your political messiah are far more dangerous to my life and liberty than what Hillary poses to the same.
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Now all you need is someone who cares what Wolf Curry thinks!
Nice rebuttal.
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We will be waiting for tyrants like you to attempt to bring your brand of "justice" to those of us who refuse to vote for whom you demand we vote for, thus making us "accessories" to 'crimes against the country'.
No wonder you people were so vitriolic over references to Trump and Mussolini or Hitler; we were hitting too close to the mark.
Thanks for illustrating why I believe you people and your political messiah are far more dangerous to my life and liberty than what Hillary poses to the same.
We, We, We...all the way home. You are a fool.
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We, We, We...all the way home. You are a fool.
When your ilk comes to punish us 'fools' because we did not vote the way you demand - I will be waiting.
How's that?
Clear it up any for you?
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BTW: why are you quoting one Fabian Socialist and one who was one for 20 years?
Because he articulated the point well and I believe in giving people credit where credit is due and George Bernard Shaw was correct on that point. Orwell was good at identifying the problems of tyranny and not as good at suggesting solutions. I'm always looking for a good turn of phrase.
Unless your complaining about me quoting Dr. Henry Jones Sr. :laugh:
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When your ilk comes to punish us 'fools' because we did not vote the way you demand - I will be waiting.
How's that?
Clear it up any for you?
I live in a stand your ground state and my warning stands for ANYONE who threatens me.
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I live in a stand your ground state and my warning stands for ANYONE who threatens me.
Tyrants and genocidal political and ethnic cleaners always advocate their punishments under the color of law.
In this case, the Trump Militant has said that they will consider those who won't vote for Trump, accessories to treason (punishable by death) - because we are not doing our "damnedest" (which means to vote Trump and seig-heil his presence) so as to deny the throne to Hildabeast.
Makes them worse than Hillary supporters and in the same league as the New Black Panthers and the Black Lives Matters morons.
I consider them all alike, just different in their objects of worship.
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I live in a stand your ground state and my warning stands for ANYONE who threatens me.
The only thing threatened was his sensibilities. He thinks Hillary would be a better POTUS. That deserves ridicule.
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Because he articulated the point well and I believe in giving people credit where credit is due and George Bernard Shaw was correct on that point. Orwell was good at identifying the problems of tyranny and not as good at suggesting solutions. I'm always looking for a good turn of phrase.
Unless your complaining about me quoting Dr. Henry Jones Sr. :laugh:
No, it was Orwell although after 20 years he became disenchanted and left the society. Likely wrote "1984" to spit in their faces. They absorbed his estate when he died. regardless.
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Bump
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Yes, this admittedly could or could not be true, but I think the article is worth putting out there. If it is true, he would likely be the master behind the dull-witted puppet, Trump.
Well, the dull-witted puppet was sharp enough to fire him.
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"Destroy the state", great... and then what? What comes after that, Mr. Bannon?
Funny how these "destroy the state" radicals never have an answer for that question. 10294
The Trenchcoat Mafia of politics.
Besides, I'm not sure if he is being historically ignorant or extremely threatening. Lenin's actions lead to a five-year Civil War in Russia. During that time, he had the ruling family executed and set up secret police terror squads. The Cheka was a brutal organization Lenin used to impose his rule through assassination, torture, and fear.
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Bump
(https://www.chevyhhr.net/gallery/files/1/7/5/1/zombie_bump.jpg)