The Briefing Room
General Category => Elections 2024 => Topic started by: mystery-ak on March 18, 2023, 04:12:50 pm
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Twitter's Elon Musk predicts Trump will win re-election in 'landslide victory' if arrested
Adam Shaw
4–5 minutes
Twitter CEO Elon Musk on Saturday predicted that former President Donald Trump will be re-elected in a "landslide" if he is indicted – or possibly arrested potentially "handcuffed" -- next week.
"If this happens, Trump will be re-elected in a landslide victory," Musk tweeted.
Musk was reacting to a Fox News segment which detailed how the Manhattan District Attorney's office has asked for a meeting with law enforcement ahead of a possible Trump indictment of next week.
According to a court source, the meeting was requested Thursday and hasn't been set. The meeting is to "discuss logistics for some time next week, which would mean that they are anticipating an indictment next week," the source familiar with the planning said. Secret Service is expected to take the lead on what they will allow and won’t allow — for instance, the decision whether to handcuff Trump t.
TRUMP SAYS ‘ILLEGAL LEAKS’ INDICATE HE'LL BE ARRESTED TUESDAY
The potential indictment stems from the lengthy investigation surrounding Trump's alleged payment of "hush money" to actress Stormy Daniels. Towards the end of the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump's then-lawyer Michael Cohen sent $130,000 to Daniels to prevent her from disclosing a 2006 affair with Trump. Trump reimbursed Cohen through installments. The office, led by DA Alvin Bragg, has been investigating the hush money scandal — which took place in 2016 — for the past five years.
On Saturday morning, Trump posted about the possible indictment on Truth Social, indicating that he will be "ARRESTED ON TUESDAY."
more
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/twitters-elon-musk-predicts-trump-will-win-re-election-landslide-victory-if-arrested
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Does Character matter now ?
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He’ll win the nomination
Not the general election. Musk is confusing the two.
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Does Character matter now ?
Not if you promise to throw money around to your voters…
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He’ll win the nomination
Not the general election. Musk is confusing the two.
I'm not so sure; people are fed up with the continuous witch hunt, fake news, bogus accusations and above all; an election was stolen.
Whether you are a Trump supporter or not, right is right and wrong is wrong and IMO I think you may see voters come together to ensure that Brandon and the leftists are finished.
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I'm not so sure; people are fed up with the continuous witch hunt, fake news, bogus accusations and above all; an election was stolen.
Whether you are a Trump supporter or not, right is right and wrong is wrong and IMO I think you may see voters come together to ensure that Brandon and the leftists are finished.
What you said is applicable during the primary. Not the general election. I don’t doubt that an indictment is going to further motivated his base
I believe some of these charges might be unfair. But that doesn’t mean I’m gonna vote for him
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There is likely some political bias at work, but history has shown it best not to be sucked into defending him until all of the details emerge. Everyone declared the Mar-a-Lago raid a gestapo operation, and it turns out he ignored a subpoena for the documents. Trump is known to have sketchy attorneys ... ones who are willing to engage after he stiffed the others. We don't know whether their advice is prudent or just whatever he wants to hear in the moment.
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What you said is applicable during the primary. Not the general election. I don’t doubt that an indictment is going to further motivated his base
I believe some of these charges might be unfair. But that doesn’t mean I’m gonna vote for him
So...a vote for Brandon, or abstain? Heck of a choice.
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If Trump could have just toned it down a bit, his ENTIRE former base would have supported him.
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There is likely some political bias at work, but history has shown it best not to be sucked into defending him until all of the details emerge. Everyone declared the Mar-a-Lago raid a gestapo operation, and it turns out he ignored a subpoena for the documents. Trump is known to have sketchy attorneys ... ones who are willing to engage after he stiffed the others. We don't know whether their advice is prudent or just whatever he wants to hear in the moment.
I know for a fact that some major national, highly reputable law firms turned him down as a client. One of my buddies who participated in the executive partnership meeting at which his firm made that decision said there was a significant political component to the decision, but that the clincher argument was his reputation for stiffing his attorneys.
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Does Character matter now ?
It hasn't in a long time. Every Politician I've known (and I've known a lot) eventually lies to their supporters.
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I don't know about a landslide,but there is no way in HELL that getting indicted and arrested would hurt his chances of getting elected President.
Like you,I think it would help him. Suddenly,he would no longer look like the beneficiary of inheirited wealth and fame. Lots of people who are envious of him now and don't like him because he was born into money are likely to suddenly see him as someone who understands what they are going or have gone through,and decided to vote for him.
An indictment at this point can do nothing but help his campaign.
After all,it ain't like he can't afford to hire bloodthirsty lawyers to defend him.
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I'm not so sure; people are fed up with the continuous witch hunt, fake news, bogus accusations and above all; an election was stolen.
Whether you are a Trump supporter or not, right is right and wrong is wrong and IMO I think you may see voters come together to ensure that Brandon and the leftists are finished.
@libertybele
Is there ANYBODY left out there with 2 IQ points to rub together that doesn't think Biden and the Dims stole that election?
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If Trump could have just toned it down a bit, his ENTIRE former base would have supported him.
@mrpotatohead
If the alleged adults who would be voting would recognize that what America NEEDS is a "verbal bomb thrower" that will name names and shake up the system,we might have a chance to still living in a free America 10 years from now.
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I know for a fact that some major national, highly reputable law firms turned him down as a client. One of my buddies who participated in the executive partnership meeting at which his firm made that decision said there was a significant political component to the decision, but that the clincher argument was his reputation for stiffing his attorneys.
@Maj. Bill Martin
Granted,most of the major NYC and DC lawfirms have their noses and collection boxes firmly up Dim asses,but there HAS to be a few that meet the Archie Bunker standards of "Seven Savage Jews" who will take him up on it for the free publicity and all the cases it would bring them. Even if he didn't pay them,there would be no way it would hurt them financally,due to the publicity and all the new cases it would bring in.
If any firm is interested AND worried about him paying them,what is preventing them from forcing Trump and his lawyers to sign a legal document stating that he is required to pay each months billing fees in full or they are free to drop him as a client?
Granted,NO amount of money or publicity is going to get the really rabid Dim lawfirms to represent him,but there HAS to be some serious "legal players" out there who would jump at the chance for fame and fortune.
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He’ll win the nomination
Not the general election. Musk is confusing the two.
What an arrest does is lock in the 35%-40% of the GOP voters, the MAGA loyalyst who will write in his name if not on the ticket. It's early and anything can happen but I'm Kurt not feeling a 2024 win for the Republican no matter who it is.
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The Republican presidential nominee in 2024 WILL be Mr. Trump.
Will he win the election in a landslide?
No.
It will be close, if he's able to win at all.
It doesn't matter HOW MANY Republican voters vote for him.
As to why this is destined to happen -- well, I've explained it more than once in the forum, and usually nobody replies. Here's a recent example:
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,492624.msg2797028.html#msg2797028
Mr. Trump will do MUCH better in the general election than any other Pubbie candidate (including Ron DeSantis). But he still has a hard, HARD struggle to win in 2024. See my referenced post above.
If I'm wrong, please explain to me how so...
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I don't know about a landslide,but there is no way in HELL that getting indicted and arrested would hurt his chances of getting elected President.
Like you,I think it would help him. Suddenly,he would no longer look like the beneficiary of inheirited wealth and fame. Lots of people who are envious of him now and don't like him because he was born into money are likely to suddenly see him as someone who understands what they are going or have gone through,and decided to vote for him.
An indictment at this point can do nothing but help his campaign.
After all,it ain't like he can't afford to hire bloodthirsty lawyers to defend him.
sneakypete.....you've nailed it. Yours is the correct answer.
Every Leftist in this country should be thinking: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Yamamoto
If they arrest our former President and current leading 2024 candidate for that office....we must all stand together and resist this travesty in every legal way possible. Anything less is condoning the destruction of the rule of law in America. That is not hyperbole.
This is not about any single candidate, its about an action that will rent the core fibers of our nation. This cannot stand...and anyone on the Right who tolerates it doesn't deserve to be a citizen of this country.
Desantis must come out and condemn what's happening, and legally use his office as Governor to block an unjust extradition on a trumped up political hack-charge. Now is his moment...he can rise above Trump's own petty interactions with him...and become a hero to both his own supporters and Trump voters. Or he can do nothing and ensure he'll never get a single vote from the Trump base.
I'm a Desantis voter as of this minute. If he doesn't fight this extradition and condemn this action...I will revert to being a committed Trump voter. And I'm not alone in that. This is bigger than both men...this is about saving the Republic. Some may say its already lost but we should all be damned if we just accept that and let this go down without a fight!
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@mrpotatohead
If the alleged adults who would be voting would recognize that what America NEEDS is a "verbal bomb thrower" that will name names and shake up the system,we might have a chance to still living in a free America 10 years from now.
Talking smack has never mattered a row of pins up in here @sneakypete
And never will. What matters is action, not drama.
If he can talk the talk, fine - But he'd better walk the line.
That's what gets my vote.
Not Tumpy.
I have never understood the whole 'He Fights' thing.
He don't. At ALL.
He's got a battleship mouth alright, but a rowboat ass.
That's how I see it.
Desantis OTOH, he don't say much, but he carries a big damn stick.
And he knows how to use it.
I will vote for that.
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Talking smack has never mattered a row of pins up in here @sneakypete
And never will. What matters is action, not drama.
If he can talk the talk, fine - But he'd better walk the line.
That's what gets my vote.
Not Tumpy.
I have never understood the whole 'He Fights' thing.
He don't. At ALL.
He's got a battleship mouth alright, but a rowboat ass.
That's how I see it.
Desantis OTOH, he don't say much, but he carries a big damn stick.
And he knows how to use it.
I will vote for that.
Jury for me is still out on DeSantis. Keep in mind he has a super majority which has helped him immensely. He's made tremendous headway without much pushback from the leftists/DEMS -- that concerns me a bit.
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Jury for me is still out on DeSantis. Keep in mind he has a super majority which has helped him immensely. He's made tremendous headway without much pushback from the leftists/DEMS -- that concerns me a bit.
I would have NEVER thought to cut the states gratuity away from Disney. That took some serious brass. And he did it to little acclaim. But then it seems he ain't looking to make hay, just get the job done.
That speaks volumes more than any 'News a 6' or campaign speeches.
Maybe that's too redneck for all y'all, but I like the rubber hitting the road. Not speechifying.
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Talking smack has never mattered a row of pins up in here @sneakypete
And never will. What matters is action, not drama.
If he can talk the talk, fine - But he'd better walk the line.
That's what gets my vote.
Not Tumpy.
I have never understood the whole 'He Fights' thing.
He don't. At ALL.
He's got a battleship mouth alright, but a rowboat ass.
That's how I see it.
Desantis OTOH, he don't say much, but he carries a big damn stick.
And he knows how to use it.
I will vote for that.
Was he in a rowboat when this happened:
https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/trumps-tax-cut-slashed-us-corporate-effective-tax-rate-to-9
Or this: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/trump-installed-historic-number-judges-biden-outpacing-far-rcna48142
And yes...both of those things matter. And yes again...that's just two examples of many. I'm intending to vote Desantis in 2024, but you're damned wrong about Trump...he moved things to the Right to the extent possible. Given a 2nd chance, that will accelerate as he learned some very hard lessons about picking the right...aggressive...appointees to head the Fed departments.
You don't have to disparage one Republican to build up another...Trump moved the country right on policy, and I expect Desantis to continue that.
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Was he in a rowboat when this happened:
https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/trumps-tax-cut-slashed-us-corporate-effective-tax-rate-to-9
Pretty predictable. MEH... Especially in the face of nearly doubling government spending.
Or this: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/trump-installed-historic-number-judges-biden-outpacing-far-rcna48142
Judges have historically been a crap-shoot, and this is no different. JUst because they have an 'R' by their name don't mean sh*t. And YES- they are a crap-shoot even yet.
And yes...both of those things matter. And yes again...that's just two examples of many. I'm intending to vote Desantis in 2024, but you're damned wrong about Trump...he moved things to the Right to the extent possible. Given a 2nd chance, that will accelerate as he learned some very hard lessons about picking the right...aggressive...appointees to head the Fed departments.
Not really. He left a much bigger government for the Democrats than when he started.
That is NOT moving right.
You don't have to disparage one Republican to build up another...Trump moved the country right on policy, and I expect Desantis to continue that.
Not in agreement. I think Tumpy is centrist at best. And really, his 'right' is measured in northeast values -- So not even in the ballpark of true.
Sorry :shrug: That's how I see it.
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If I'm wrong, please explain to me how so...
Trump has a much less chance of getting ind swing voters than Desantis.
I'm not saying DeSantis will or won't. But his chances are better than Trump's
Trump's base, though passionate, is still the minority in this country. And I can guarantee the Democrat base will be out in force if Trump is the nominee.
I suppose one can argue that they believe in Trump enough that they'll vote for him, win or lose in the election and if they lose, they can say they fought the good fight
And flame away, but Jan 6th probably hurt Trump with those same voters. His calling for more protests if indicted isn't going to appeal to anyone outside of his most dedicated of supporters
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Pretty predictable. MEH... Especially in the face of nearly doubling government spending.
Judges have historically been a crap-shoot, and this is no different. JUst because they have an 'R' by their name don't mean sh*t. And YES- they are a crap-shoot even yet.
Not really. He left a much bigger government for the Democrats than when he started.
That is NOT moving right.
Not in agreement. I think Tumpy is centrist at best. And really, his 'right' is measured in northeast values -- So not even in the ballpark of true.
Sorry :shrug: That's how I see it.
You can see it anyway you want...just as I clearly see that you're shading everything he's accomplished to the negative so it doesn't contradict your position against the man. But that's not the real point of my post...the point is that Dems using the legal system to disqualify and pursue political opposition, meaning Republicans, must be opposed in every conceivable legal way. If Desantis is to lead the party, he better F'ing understand that and start goddammm fighting NOW. I want the man to be President, but he'd better fight this extradition tooth and nail or he's dead to me as a candidate. I'm just one vote, but don't think for a minute there's not a crap ton of 2-time Trump voters who feel the same way. If Desantis wants those voters...and frankly he cannot win without them...now is the time he has to do the right thing and wield his gubernatorial power.
And yes, a Governor can refuse to sign off on an intrastate extradition request. We'll know in the next few days if he is a fighter who will stand up to this garbage...or just another phony politician with no real moral courage.
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It's early and anything can happen but I'm Kurt not feeling a 2024 win for the Republican no matter who it is.
Which is why, IMO, if the GOP has any up and coming young stars, they need to sit out trying to get the 2024 nomination and let Trump just go on to lose the general election and try for 2028 or risk Trump's scorched Earth bomb throwing conspiracy filled primary campaign and ruin any future chances
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DeSantis needs to refrain from commenting on the legal proceedings. He already made the mistake of trashing the FBI after Trump ignored a subpoena for classified documents. Donald thanked Ron by calling him every name in the book, lying about his record, and most likely directing his Super PAC to file a frivolous ethics complaint.
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You can see it anyway you want...just as I clearly see that you're shading everything he's accomplished to the negative so it doesn't contradict your position against the man.
Well that's not right -- Which throws more shade? Twenty-friggin-TRILLION dollars in spending, or cutting the taxes that are supposed to pay for that spending?
There flat AIN'T no excuse.
And there ain't no tally for judges (en toto) for another half decade or more. I have pointed to Gorsuch with surprise and satisfaction, but that cannot be said of all of em, or even any of them yet.
My position on this is not shading anything. It's just true.
But that's not the real point of my post...the point is that Dems using the legal system to disqualify and pursue political opposition, meaning Republicans, must be opposed in every conceivable legal way. If Desantis is to lead the party, he better F'ing understand that and start goddammm fighting NOW. I want the man to be President, but he'd better fight this extradition tooth and nail or he's dead to me as a candidate. I'm just one vote, but don't think for a minute there's not a crap ton of 2-time Trump voters who feel the same way. If Desantis wants those voters...and frankly he cannot win without them...now is the time he has to do the right thing and wield his gubernatorial power.
And yes, a Governor can refuse to sign off on an intrastate extradition request. We'll know in the next few days if he is a fighter who will stand up to this garbage...or just another phony politician with no real moral courage.
Why would he oppose it if Tumpy has already got a deal on the table to surrender?
Why in hell would you think he should dirty his hands? Especially for a guy who is out there talking smack about him every day?
It might be extraordinary for him to step in... but certainly not required,
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For that matter, how are we so sure anything at all is going to happen on Tuesday? We only heard about it from "a leak."
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Why would he oppose it if Tumpy has already got a deal on the table to surrender? Because its the ethical and necessary thing to do if we're to stop this desecration of the rule of law.
Why in hell would you think he should dirty his hands? Especially for a guy who is out there talking smack about him every day?Because doing what's ethical is not based on liking someone, nor is it based on the whether or not the actions of the other person have hurt your feelings. Doing the right thing is a moral imperative and action is dictated by the injustice that is occurring...Desantis has the ability to fight an abuse of our legal system, and thus an obligation to do so.
Ethics aside, stepping in is a strategic imperative. If he wants to win in 2024, it IS required. From a strategic view, he cannot win without gaining substantial support from Trump supporters. Right now, he has a chance to do so...but this moment will pass quickly. If he does nothing NOW...he will never have another opportunity to regain that support. I'm not speaking hypothetically, though perhaps anecdotally, when I say Desantis cannot afford to do nothing in this situation. If that's his tactic, he loses 15-20% of GOP voters...including me. As a bonus, standing up can help him with Independents as well...who mostly understand what a witch hunt looks like.
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DeSantis needs to refrain from commenting on the legal proceedings. He already made the mistake of trashing the FBI after Trump ignored a subpoena for classified documents. Donald thanked Ron by calling him every name in the book, lying about his record, and most likely directing his Super PAC to file a frivolous ethics complaint.
You're an idiot if you think he was wrong to trash the FBI...an agency that is completely compromised. I don't care if you dislike Trump...go for it...but be smarter.
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DeSantis should expedite him to NY. Trump's past or present BS is not his problem.
He paid into that society for decades, political and otherwise.
'Throw him back to the fishes' as somewhat of a @Gefn analogy.
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DeSantis should expedite him to NY. Trump's past or present BS is not his problem.
He paid into that society for decades, political and otherwise.
'Throw him back to the fishes' as somewhat of a @Gefn analogy.
I think Trump will waive extradition himself, he seems to really want it. I can see his point.
Then he'll complain that DeSantis didn't want to fight it because he's a Soros man.
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I think Trump will waive extradition himself, he seems to really want it. I can see his point.
Then he'll complain that DeSantis didn't want to fight it because he's a Soros man.
DeSanctus is busy talking and tweeting about how wonderful he was after hurricane Ian. He's got his marching orders.
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Vivek Ramaswamy
@VivekGRamaswamy
I held a press conference following my South Carolina speech. I called on GOP donor class favorites @RonDeSantisFL and @NikkiHaley to join me by 9 AM tomorrow in calling on the Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg to abandon the political persecution through prosecution of the 45th president.
Video:
https://mobile.twitter.com/VivekGRamaswamy/status/1637233081806364675
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@Maj. Bill Martin
Granted, most of the major NYC and DC lawfirms have their noses and collection boxes firmly up Dim asses, but there HAS to be a few that meet the Archie Bunker standards of "Seven Savage Jews" who will take him up on it for the free publicity and all the cases it would bring them. Even if he didn't pay them,there would be no way it would hurt them financally,due to the publicity and all the new cases it would bring in.
Most lawyers believe it would cause them to lose far more business than it might gain. One firm I know quite well refused to do any 2020 election work because they not only had clients threatening to pull their business, but lawyers threatening to leave as well.
If any firm is interested AND worried about him paying them,what is preventing them from forcing Trump and his lawyers to sign a legal document stating that he is required to pay each months billing fees in full or they are free to drop him as a client?
Monthly billing is normal, but you still need a court's permission to drop a client. What generally happens is partual payment, them disputing the rest as overcharges/improper so it isn't as clear cut as "they aren't paying anything. Slow pay, partial pay, negotiating after the fact discounts, etc. etc.. Huge PITA with which most high-end firms just don't want to deal.
Granted,NO amount of money or publicity is going to get the really rabid Dim lawfirms to represent him,but there HAS to be some serious "legal players" out there who would jump at the chance for fame and fortune.
He'll get some, but his choices likely will be a lot more limited than he'd like. He'll probably end up with a pretty good boutique white collar crime outfit.
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The Republican presidential nominee in 2024 WILL be Mr. Trump.
Will he win the election in a landslide?
No.
It will be close, if he's able to win at all.
It doesn't matter HOW MANY Republican voters vote for him.
As to why this is destined to happen -- well, I've explained it more than once in the forum, and usually nobody replies. Here's a recent example:
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,492624.msg2797028.html#msg2797028
Mr. Trump will do MUCH better in the general election than any other Pubbie candidate (including Ron DeSantis). But he still has a hard, HARD struggle to win in 2024. See my referenced post above.
If I'm wrong, please explain to me how so...
@Fishrrman
It's hard to beat a multi-generational union of Dims and RINO's when they join together to make sure it remains "business as usual" for them and their top supporters.
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sneakypete.....you've nailed it. Yours is the correct answer.
Every Leftist in this country should be thinking: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Yamamoto
If they arrest our former President and current leading 2024 candidate for that office....we must all stand together and resist this travesty in every legal way possible. Anything less is condoning the destruction of the rule of law in America. That is not hyperbole.
This is not about any single candidate, its about an action that will rent the core fibers of our nation. This cannot stand...and anyone on the Right who tolerates it doesn't deserve to be a citizen of this country.
Desantis must come out and condemn what's happening, and legally use his office as Governor to block an unjust extradition on a trumped up political hack-charge. Now is his moment...he can rise above Trump's own petty interactions with him...and become a hero to both his own supporters and Trump voters. Or he can do nothing and ensure he'll never get a single vote from the Trump base.
@Mesaclone
Yup,and if he does that,he will have an ABSOLUTE lock on the VP spot under Trump,as well as an almost certain 2 term seat in the Oval Office.
Which would make ME very happy.
I'm a Desantis voter as of this minute. If he doesn't fight this extradition and condemn this action...I will revert to being a committed Trump voter. And I'm not alone in that. This is bigger than both men...this is about saving the Republic. Some may say its already lost but we should all be damned if we just accept that and let this go down without a fight!
@Mesaclone
I will NEVER understand why supposedly adult and educated conservative voters can't seem to understand this.
This is NOT about Trump. It is about the survival of America. Trump just happens to be the best option available to stand up against the Dims and start the long,slow process of restoring America's greatness.
Yet there are STILL a pack of fools that hate him because he is rich and rude. WTF else do these fools think would be capable of defeating the Dims if not someone with nothing to lose?
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Talking smack has never mattered a row of pins up in here @sneakypete
And never will. What matters is action, not drama.
If he can talk the talk, fine - But he'd better walk the line.
That's what gets my vote.
Not Tumpy.
I have never understood the whole 'He Fights' thing.
He don't. At ALL.
Yeah,that shows you have given the whole thing careful consideration,and the fact that he is both rich and famous has never entered your mind.
He's got a battleship mouth alright, but a rowboat ass.
That's how I see it.
In addition to being orange,he is also rich and rude,too!
Desantis OTOH, he don't say much, but he carries a big damn stick.
And he knows how to use it.
He is also not rude,orange,or rich. Well,he IS rich by the standards of most of us,but not "Billionaire Rich".
I will vote for that.
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Jury for me is still out on DeSantis. Keep in mind he has a super majority which has helped him immensely. He's made tremendous headway without much pushback from the leftists/DEMS -- that concerns me a bit.
@libertybele
I will tell you what everyone can trust without question. IF DeSantis gets the presidential nomination,the DNC is going to be all OVER his ass,and he just doesn't have the stones to fight back BECAUSE he is a professional politician.
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Which is why, IMO, if the GOP has any up and coming young stars, they need to sit out trying to get the 2024 nomination and let Trump just go on to lose the general election and try for 2028 or risk Trump's scorched Earth bomb throwing conspiracy filled primary campaign and ruin any future chances
@LMAO
You are right,of course. What we need is a gentleman in the WH,not a rude orange Billionaire!
Someone that understands the way to get along is to go along.
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@LMAO
You are right,of course. What we need is a gentleman in the WH,not a rude orange Billionaire!
Someone that understands the way to get along is to go along.
Usually I don't respond to you when you start that shit, but can you name any instances while POTUS that he got a major legislative victory were he even forced the likes of Pelosi or Schumer to sign on to?
You keep telling us what a fighter he is while mocking conservative posters. Here's your chance to give examples beyond Twitter Wars with insignificant celebrities
Something comparable to the class of 1994 Republicans forcing then POTUS Clinton into going along with welfare reform and a more balanced budget despite his liberal instincts. Things the rest of us call Conservatism. Your boy rang up the debt to even further unsustainable levels while going along with funding Planned Parenthood
I have nothing personal against Trump nor his supporters. He did some things that I strongly agree with. But the big issue is spending and it's effect on the economy and inflation and he failed and is still failing
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You're an idiot if you think he was wrong to trash the FBI...an agency that is completely compromised. I don't care if you dislike Trump...go for it...but be smarter.
You’re the one who wants to suck the whole party into Trump’s vortex. The Florida governor has no reason to comment on Trump’s horseface problem in New York. I mean, good lord, he’d have to be the nicest man alive. Donald has insulted him nonstop.
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Usually I don't respond to you when you start that shit, but can you name any instances while POTUS that he got a major legislative victory were he even forced the likes of Pelosi or Schumer to sign on to?
You keep telling us what a fighter he is while mocking conservative posters. Here's your chance to give examples beyond Twitter Wars with insignificant celebrities
Something comparable to the class of 1994 Republicans forcing then POTUS Clinton into going along with welfare reform and a more balanced budget despite his liberal instincts. Things the rest of us call Conservatism. Your boy rang up the debt to even further unsustainable levels while going along with funding Planned Parenthood
I have nothing personal against Trump nor his supporters. He did some things that I strongly agree with. But the big issue is spending and it's effect on the economy and inflation and he failed and is still failing
@LMAO
WOW! You only had to go back 18 years to find something the alleged Republican Party accomplished that was positive!
And none of them were even rude!
Or orange!
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@LMAO
WOW! You only had to go back 18 years to find something the alleged Republican Party accomplished that was positive!
And none of them were even rude!
Or orange!
So you got nothing. Just as I suspected *****rollingeyes*****
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So you got nothing. Just as I suspected *****rollingeyes*****
@LMAO
No,bubba,it is you that have nothing,other than the same old "Bend over and do me again!" RINO's that are nothing more than Dim Lights.
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@LMAO
No,bubba,it is you that have nothing,other than the same old "Bend over and do me again!" RINO's that are nothing more than Dim Lights.
Still got nothing. Not that I was really expecting a rational response but thought I might get lucky
So perhaps going forward you should quit telling other posters they are weak and willing to bend over because they want a conservative candidate who might truly fight the Democrats and the out of control federal agencies vs just throwing silly names at his opponents for your entertainment
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Still got nothing. Not that I was really expecting a rational response but thought I might get lucky
So perhaps going forward you should quit telling other posters they are weak and willing to bend over because they want a conservative candidate who might truly fight the Democrats and the out of control federal agencies vs just throwing silly names at his opponents for your entertainment
@LMAO
You wouldn't recognize a conservative candidate if one bit you on the ass.
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Yeah,that shows you have given the whole thing careful consideration,and the fact that he is both rich and famous has never entered your mind.
In addition to being orange,he is also rich and rude,too!
He is also not rude,orange,or rich. Well,he IS rich by the standards of most of us,but not "Billionaire Rich".
*YAWN*
I dunno why I bother.
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Why would he oppose it if Tumpy has already got a deal on the table to surrender? Because its the ethical and necessary thing to do if we're to stop this desecration of the rule of law.
Why in hell would you think he should dirty his hands? Especially for a guy who is out there talking smack about him every day?Because doing what's ethical is not based on liking someone, nor is it based on the whether or not the actions of the other person have hurt your feelings. Doing the right thing is a moral imperative and action is dictated by the injustice that is occurring...Desantis has the ability to fight an abuse of our legal system, and thus an obligation to do so.
Ethics aside, stepping in is a strategic imperative. If he wants to win in 2024, it IS required. From a strategic view, he cannot win without gaining substantial support from Trump supporters. Right now, he has a chance to do so...but this moment will pass quickly. If he does nothing NOW...he will never have another opportunity to regain that support. I'm not speaking hypothetically, though perhaps anecdotally, when I say Desantis cannot afford to do nothing in this situation. If that's his tactic, he loses 15-20% of GOP voters...including me. As a bonus, standing up can help him with Independents as well...who mostly understand what a witch hunt looks like.
Good Lord, @Mesaclone
Tumpy has already cut a deal to surrender - Maybe even in NYC which is not even an extradition matter - And here you are throwin amperage at DeSantis for what very conceivably is not even in his jurisdiction. and for sure ain't his business if the lawyers already have an agreed deal on the table.
WTF?
You are usually thinking way better than this.
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@LMAO
You wouldn't recognize a conservative candidate if one bit you on the ass.
Oh SURE he would. @LMAO is old skool. You needn't worry about him.
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This is painfully comical to watch
We had a poster, not terribly long ago, who claimed that Ron DeSantis was whining ad nauseam over Trump being mean to him. Something that only happened inside the tight Trump bubble and not in the world everybody else lives in which we refer to as reality.
And they cheered when his PAC filed a panicked “ethics” complaint
But now they’re demanding Ron DeSantis and other Republicans wipe Donald Trump’s dirty butt for him
:mauslaff: :mauslaff: :laughingdog:
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DeSanctus is busy talking and tweeting about how wonderful he was after hurricane Ian. He's got his marching orders.
*****rollingeyes*****
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@libertybele
I will tell you what everyone can trust without question. IF DeSantis gets the presidential nomination,the DNC is going to be all OVER his ass,and he just doesn't have the stones to fight back BECAUSE he is a professional politician.
I don't believe that to be true. When he has been challenged by the left he has pushed back.
I still don't look for him to run against Trump, nor do I feel that he would want to subject himself and his family to the leftist mudslinging.
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I still don't look for him to run against Trump, nor do I feel that he would want to subject himself and his family to the leftist mudslinging.
I do agree with you on this especially with his wife being ill
And it isn’t just leftists. He probably doesn’t want to have Donald Trump publicly post a picture of his wife in a not so flattering condition for the entertainment of his base
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I don't believe that to be true. When he has been challenged by the left he has pushed back.
I still don't look for him to run against Trump, nor do I feel that he would want to subject himself and his family to the leftist mudslinging.
It warms my heart to have you back posting. May God continue to heal you my friend!
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DeSanctus is busy talking and tweeting about how wonderful he was after hurricane Ian. He's got his marching orders.
"DeSanctus"???? Really??? It sure seems that you certainly see DeSantis as a threat to Trump. For crying out loud, he hasn't even announced that he's running. BTW he did do an excellent job after Ian. Just one example; he had paths created to Sanibel Island and Pine Island in less than a week, which was absolutely remarkable. Yes, we are still recovering, but Ian was a major hurricane and regardless of what the "news" states, Ian was a Cat. 5 - local reporting of sustained winds of 170 mph and gusts over 200 mph. It was catastrophic and DeSantis is still working on the recovery. So, please don't make light of his accomplishments. Marching orders???
@Right_in_Virginia IMO Trump's time is over. He is aging for one and secondly, if he keeps up his shenanigans and acting like a 5th grade bully, he will lose. The left will continue to hound him until they make it so that he is unable to run. Also, who wants a repeat of the mockery that he made of the campaign and debates? And, I still take issue that he went lightly on his friend Hillary.
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Which is why, IMO, if the GOP has any up and coming young stars, they need to sit out trying to get the 2024 nomination and let Trump just go on to lose the general election and try for 2028 or risk Trump's scorched Earth bomb throwing conspiracy filled primary campaign and ruin any future chances
I'd prefer they'd run. Otherwise, the entire GOP will look like a bunch of Trumpers. GOP voters deserve a choice.
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Was he in a rowboat when this happened:
https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/trumps-tax-cut-slashed-us-corporate-effective-tax-rate-to-9
Or this: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/trump-installed-historic-number-judges-biden-outpacing-far-rcna48142
And yes...both of those things matter.
I agree - they mattered very much. But they also expose Trump's worst quality.
The primary driver of the tax cut bill was the Speaker of the House. His people did most of the drafting, and he rammed it through the House.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/16/paul-ryan-win-tax-reform-bill-244974
But Trump needed the Senate to ram it through as well, and we all know who made that happen. And in terms of the judges and justices, there was one guy responsive.for ramming them through, and also the guy who held the Senate firm to reject Garland.
But predictably, Trump now hates both of them and blasts them publicly whenever he can. He was doing it to Ryan in 2018. And he's managed to make enough personal enemies among Republicans in the Senate and House that I suspect he'll never be able to put together comparable coalitions again.
We also should have gotten the partial repeal of Obamacare, except for Trump's petty stupidity in deliberately alienating the equally petty Senator who had the deciding vote, and sank it as an "FU" to Trump.
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I'd prefer they'd run. Otherwise, the entire GOP will look like a bunch of Trumpers. GOP voters deserve a choice.
Agreed. We need a choice. Trump this time will look like a complete fool if he tries to bully his way through. An ex-president resorting back to being a 5th grade bully, just isn't going to work this time around. It will only make him look desperate.
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DeSantis needs to refrain from commenting on the legal proceedings.
As a former prosecutor himself, DeSantis certainly sees the wisdom in at least waiting until the charges are actually filed, and everyone can see what they actually are, before commenting. We literally don't even know what the charges are. Are they almost certainly politically-motivated and lame as hell? Of course. But waiting until specific charges are actually filed before commenting seems a no-brainer to me.
This rush to make absolutist comments about something that hasn't yet even happened is one of the worse characteristics of modern American politics. Don't take the time to get the actual facts, conduct analysis, and speak with discipline. Instead, reflexively offer dogmatic opinions immediately after reviewing Twitter-based rumors and fragments of information.
One of the things I like most about DeSantis is that he tends to think before he speaks.
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This is painfully comical to watch
Were DeSantis about to be arrested, their lizard-brained messiah would immediately throw him under the bus, and then back over him six or eight times.
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"DeSanctus"???? Really??? It sure seems that you certainly see DeSantis as a threat to Trump.
I see DeSanctus as a threat to this country @libertybele He is a trojan horse for the globalist elites America First is committed to defeating. He deserves neither my respect nor my vote.
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Agreed. We need a choice. Trump this time will look like a complete fool if he tries to bully his way through. An ex-president resorting back to being a 5th grade bully, just isn't going to work this time around. It will only make him look desperate.
This makes you sound like a five year old spoiled brat in the middle of a tantrum @libertybele Not very helpful. **nononono*
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I see DeSanctus as a threat to this country @libertybele He is a trojan horse for the globalist elites America First is committed to defeating. He deserves neither my respect nor my vote.
False. If I recall correctly, a poster in here recently disproved that DeSantis is a trojan horse for the globalist elites.
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This makes you sound like a five year old spoiled brat in the middle of a tantrum @libertybele Not very helpful. **nononono*
??? If you say so @Right_in_Virginia It sure seems to me you're the one throwing a tantrum over the popularity of DeSantis.
Enough already of the Trump v. DeSantis --- DeSantis hasn't even announced he's running. It's getting ridiculous.
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I’ve had a chance to research Ron Desantis record myself, and it’s fairly conservative while he was a member of Congress. Especially on the spending. And I think that’s what scares Trump and his supporters the most. What scares them as this time conservatives might have a real choice and not big spending populism.
And that’s ultimately what should be judge. His voting record. Not what Donald Trump and his supporters say about him
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I’ve had a chance to research Ron Desantis record myself, and it’s fairly conservative while he was a member of Congress. Especially on the spending. And I think that’s what scares Trump and his supporters the most. What scares them as this time conservatives might have a real choice and not big spending populism.
And that’s ultimately what should be judge. His voting record. Not what Donald Trump and his supporters say about him
SURE. A founding member of the Conservative Freedom Caucus - That means TEA Party - And almost certainly a step in the right direction. And if it is, his voting record, along with his general record, will predict his actions.
And so far as I know, that record is GOOD.
Not that it is here nor there... he ain't even declared.
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SURE. A founding member of the Conservative Freedom Caucus - That means TEA Party - And almost certainly a step in the right direction. And if it is, his voting record, along with his general record, will predict his actions.
And so far as I know, that record is GOOD.
Not that it is here nor there... he ain't even declared.
Exactly!
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I don't believe that to be true. When he has been challenged by the left he has pushed back.
I still don't look for him to run against Trump, nor do I feel that he would want to subject himself and his family to the leftist mudslinging.
@libertybele
I have my doubts about it too. At THIS time,staying out of the all the feces slinging that is going on and waiting another 4 years is the smart thing to do.
Howsumever,he IS a politician,and they seem to have a lot of trouble avoiding the bright lights and the tv cameras,so what is going to happen is anyone's guess.
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Donald Trump claims to be a Christian, but his actions at times don't reflect it.
@mrpotatohead
Define Christian.
There must be dozens of "Christian Faiths" (btw,take notice that "Faith" does not mean the same thing as "Fact"),and they all have different opinions on what it means to be a "Faithful Christian".
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??? If you say so @Right_in_Virginia It sure seems to me you're the one throwing a tantrum over the popularity of DeSantis.
DeSantis is dropping like a stone @libertybele With God's grace you'll get to keep him in Florida :0001:
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Were DeSantis about to be arrested, their lizard-brained messiah would immediately throw him under the bus, and then back over him six or eight times.
@cato potatoe
I know you are a "fan boy",but get a grip on yourself. You sound like an hysterial teenager at a Elvis concert in the 50's.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/658KTPdM/Frlzt6q-Wc-AAo14-U.jpg)
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I see DeSanctus as a threat to this country . He is a trojan horse for the globalist elites America First is committed to defeating. He deserves neither my respect nor my vote.
@Right_in_Virginia
I disagree. He is nothing more,or less,than a clever politician trying to play all the angles at the same time.
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@libertybele
I have my doubts about it too. At THIS time,staying out of the all the feces slinging that is going on and waiting another 4 years is the smart thing to do.
Howsumever,he IS a politician,and they seem to have a lot of trouble avoiding the bright lights and the tv cameras,so what is going to happen is anyone's guess.
If DeSantis does decide to run, he would best announce at the very last minute. He would have the advantage of avoiding a lot of mudslinging and Trump's b.s.
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@Right_in_Virginia
I disagree. He is nothing more,or less,than a clever politician trying to play all the angles at the same time.
@sneakypete
I know his history and his monetary puppetmasters. Ron is bad news, IMO, I don't want him anywhere near the Oval Office. But, I can --- and do --- wish him a long, happy life in Tallahassee happy77
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@sneakypete
I know his history and his monetary puppetmasters. Ron is bad news, IMO, I don't want him anywhere near the Oval Office. But, I can --- and do --- wish him a long, happy life in Tallahassee happy77
@Right_in_Virginia
I don't have the first clue about any of that. PLEASE expand and educate us all in a stand-alone thread.
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SURE. A founding member of the Conservative Freedom Caucus - That means TEA Party - And almost certainly a step in the right direction. And if it is, his voting record, along with his general record, will predict his actions.
And so far as I know, that record is GOOD.
Not that it is here nor there... he ain't even declared.
Which is why Trump and his supporters are attempting to define him themselves. From their perspective, I understand the attempt. But it's still the voting record as the most concrete measure of his philosophy. Not "he's a one world government Anti Christ supported by Paul Ryan"
Not everything I'm fully on board with. But, based on his record, should he run, he would be the most conservative, especially from the fiscal end, candidate we had in a long time
For now, Trump is ahead in the polls amongst primary voters. But Desantis is in a good position for a non announced candidate. And, if history is any guide, that can change very easily
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@Right_in_Virginia
I don't have the first clue about any of that. PLEASE expand and educate us all in a stand-alone thread.
I have been @sneakypete --- And will resume after I pick up my flame retardant suit from the cleaners :laugh:
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I know you are a "fan boy",but get a grip on yourself. You sound like an hysterial teenager at a Elvis concert in the 50's.
Ya know who you are? The one on the right:
(https://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/personalexperience/5/8/7/589587.jpg?v=3)
I have no idea which name I will check in the primary exactly ONE YEAR from now. Who even wants to run? The best people are not interested in politics, and most of the others are going to wait for the political climate to detoxify. But to fall in line behind anyone at this stage is ridiculous.
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I'd be shocked to see anything more left-wing from DeSantis than this from Trump in 2015:
Scott Pelley: Universal health care?
Donald Trump: I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now.
Scott Pelley: The uninsured person is going to be taken care of how?
Donald Trump: They're going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably--
Scott Pelley: Make a deal? Who pays for it?
Donald Trump: -- the government's gonna pay for it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-60-minutes-scott-pelley/
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If DeSantis does decide to run, he would best announce at the very last minute. He would have the advantage of avoiding a lot of mudslinging and Trump's b.s.
@libertybele
Yeah,causen Trump is the only one full of Bush,right?
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I'd be shocked to see anything more left-wing from DeSantis than this from Trump in 2015:
Scott Pelley: Universal health care?
Donald Trump: I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now.
Scott Pelley: The uninsured person is going to be taken care of how?
Donald Trump: They're going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably--
Scott Pelley: Make a deal? Who pays for it?
Donald Trump: -- the government's gonna pay for it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-60-minutes-scott-pelley/
And that was said by him around the time people like Rand Paul, Desantis were voting to reduce spending and the size of government.
If he had the votes and it was passed by Congress, I have no doubt Trump would sign a single payer health plan and his supporters would justify it
Maybe he can claim it won't add to the debt and deficits because the "government is going to pay for it." *****rollingeyes*****
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He's not a conservative. He just isn't. He's a populist, and maybe there are a lot of folks who would prefer a populist to a conservative, and that's obviously their prerogative. But for those of us who are policy-based conservatives, he's just not that guy.
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He's not a conservative. He just isn't. He's a populist, and maybe there are a lot of folks who would prefer a populist to a conservative, and that's obviously their prerogative. But for those of us who are policy-based conservatives, he's just not that guy.
That's right.
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I have been @sneakypete --- And will resume after I pick up my flame retardant suit from the cleaners :laugh:
Yet, whenever you are ever confronted to back up your claims, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone run faster and further away than you
Well, actually, that may not always be true. What you mostly do is avoid answering any questions or deflect
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@sneakypete
I know his history and his monetary puppetmasters. Ron is bad news, IMO, I don't want him anywhere near the Oval Office. But, I can --- and do --- wish him a long, happy life in Tallahassee happy77
We both do. The peanut gallery may find out in a couple of years, and then be shocked and dismayed.
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Yet, whenever you are ever confronted to back up your claims, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone run faster and further away than you
Well, actually, that may not always be true. What you mostly do is avoid answering any questions or deflect
You can lead a horse to water, but...
888mouth
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You can lead a horse to water, but...
888mouth
https://ballotpedia.org/Ron_DeSantis%27_congressional_history
This is what we’re going to look at when it comes to Ron DeSantis plus his record in Florida. Not what Donald Trump, or anybody else thinks of him. His record. And I think that’s what scares Trump and his supporters. They were hoping that those of us who consider ourselves traditional conservatives would have no choice, but to vote Donald Trump. But now, that there’s a danger of a choice, they’re lashing out irrationally and calling it campaigning…lol. And if the likes of Rand Paul got into the race, you would see a similar tantrum from Trump and Trumpers. It’s a battle between conservatives vs populist.
So, while Trump was writing checks out to Democrats and pimping universal healthcare and universal childcare, and then as president, had no issue adding another nearly$8 trillion to the debt, there were conservatives in Congress trying to control spending and those of us that easily predicted that all this money printing and excessive spending with a debt that was already out of control was going to lead to this inflation some day that we see today. And none of what I listed is my opinion. All factual. And add to the fact that as the current candidate he wants even more spending. No entitlement reform whatsoever. No to slashing ethanol subsidies. And as the campaign goes on, he’s gonna promise more. Which means, like his first term, I would expect to see very little of his VETO pen
Strange you should have a picture of Calvin Coolidge in your avatar and back a second term for Trump. Trump is no Calvin Coolidge.
If populism is your thing, then so be it. But there are those of us who are looking at the debt and the size of the federal government, and are looking for candidates with a record attempting to reign it in at least somewhat
We can debate wokeism, crime, and all very important issues. But ultimately, it’s going to be the debt that’s gonna bring us to our knees.
I know, there goes those crazy conservatives worrying about the spending when we don’t realize we can just print all the money we need, right?
And Ron DeSantis could be just the latest craze right now. And it’s a possibility one day he could become president and let me down. But right now all I have is his record. And that record is more appealing to me than “ the government is going to pay for it.”
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https://ballotpedia.org/Ron_DeSantis%27_congressional_history
This is what we’re going to look at when it comes to Ron DeSantis plus his record in Florida. Not what Donald Trump, or anybody else thinks of him. His record. And I think that’s what scares Trump and his supporters. They were hoping that those of us who consider ourselves traditional conservatives would have no choice, but to vote Donald Trump. But now, that there’s a danger of a choice, they’re lashing out irrationally and calling it campaigning…lol. And if the likes of Rand Paul got into the race, you would see a similar tantrum from Trump and Trumpers. It’s a battle between conservatives vs populist
So, while Trump was writing checks out to Democrats and pimping universal healthcare and universal childcare, and then as president, had no issue adding another nearly$8 trillion to the debt, there were conservatives in Congress trying to control spending and those of us that easily predicted that all this money printing and excessive spending with a debt that was already out of control was going to lead to this inflation some day that we see today. And none of what I listed is my opinion. All factual. And add to the fact that as the current candidate he wants even more spending. No entitlement reform whatsoever. No to slashing ethanol subsidies. And as the campaign goes on, he’s gonna promise more. Which means, like his first term, I would expect to see very little of his VETO pen
Strange you should have a picture of Calvin Coolidge in your avatar and back a second term for Trump. Trump is no Calvin Coolidge.
If populism is your thing, then so be it. But there are those of us who are looking at the debt and the size of the federal government, and are looking for candidates with a record attempting to reign it in at least somewhat
We can debate wokeism, crime, and all very important issues. But ultimately, it’s going to be the debt that’s gonna bring us to our knees.
I know, there goes those crazy conservatives worrying about the spending when we don’t realize we can just print all the money we need, right?
And Ron DeSantis could be just the latest craze right now. And it’s a possibility one day he could become president and let me down. But right now all I have is his record. And that record is more appealing to me than “ the government is going to pay for it.”
:thumbsup:
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He's not a conservative. He just isn't. He's a populist, and maybe there are a lot of folks who would prefer a populist to a conservative, and that's obviously their prerogative. But for those of us who are policy-based conservatives, he's just not that guy.
:yowsa:
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Speaking of Calvin Coolidge, compare this…
I favor the policy of economy, not because I wish to save money, but because I wish to save people. The men and women of this country who toil are the ones who bear the cost of the Government. Every dollar that we carelessly waste means that their life will be so much the more meager. Every dollar that we prudently save means that their life will be so much the more abundant. Economy is idealism in its most practical form.
—President Calvin Coolidge, Inaugural Address, March 4, 1925
To this
Pelley: "Universal health care?"
Trump: "I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now."
Pelley: "The uninsured person is going to be taken care of how?"
Trump: "They're going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably--"
Pelley: "Make a deal? Who pays for it?"
Trump: "--the government's gonna pay for it
Donald Trump Sept 27, 2015
Although they won’t admit it out loud, I think the reason many Trumper’s have contempt for fiscal conservatives is because they want to grow the government in their image. With tight fiscal and monetary policy, they can’t do that
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I’ve had a chance to research Ron Desantis record myself, and it’s fairly conservative while he was a member of Congress. Especially on the spending. And I think that’s what scares Trump and his supporters the most. What scares them as this time conservatives might have a real choice and not big spending populism.
And that’s ultimately what should be judge. His voting record. Not what Donald Trump and his supporters say about him
:yowsa: :amen:
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Why would he oppose it if Tumpy has already got a deal on the table to surrender? Because its the ethical and necessary thing to do if we're to stop this desecration of the rule of law.
Why in hell would you think he should dirty his hands? Especially for a guy who is out there talking smack about him every day?Because doing what's ethical is not based on liking someone, nor is it based on the whether or not the actions of the other person have hurt your feelings. Doing the right thing is a moral imperative and action is dictated by the injustice that is occurring...Desantis has the ability to fight an abuse of our legal system, and thus an obligation to do so.
Ethics aside, stepping in is a strategic imperative. If he wants to win in 2024, it IS required. From a strategic view, he cannot win without gaining substantial support from Trump supporters. Right now, he has a chance to do so...but this moment will pass quickly. If he does nothing NOW...he will never have another opportunity to regain that support. I'm not speaking hypothetically, though perhaps anecdotally, when I say Desantis cannot afford to do nothing in this situation. If that's his tactic, he loses 15-20% of GOP voters...including me. As a bonus, standing up can help him with Independents as well...who mostly understand what a witch hunt looks like.
@Mesaclone
In all honestly, I see no plausible scenario where a significant number of GOP voters don't refuse to vote for the eventual nominee. There are just too many principled beliefs on both sides that are going to render too many GOP voters unwilling to vote for the nominee.
So we may just be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic at this point.
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Speaking of Calvin Coolidge, compare this…
I favor the policy of economy, not because I wish to save money, but because I wish to save people. The men and women of this country who toil are the ones who bear the cost of the Government. Every dollar that we carelessly waste means that their life will be so much the more meager. Every dollar that we prudently save means that their life will be so much the more abundant. Economy is idealism in its most practical form.
—President Calvin Coolidge, Inaugural Address, March 4, 1925
To this
Pelley: "Universal health care?"
Trump: "I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now."
Pelley: "The uninsured person is going to be taken care of how?"
Trump: "They're going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably--"
Pelley: "Make a deal? Who pays for it?"
Trump: "--the government's gonna pay for it
Donald Trump Sept 27, 2015
Although they won’t admit it out loud, I think the reason many Trumper’s have contempt for fiscal conservatives is because they want to grow the government in their image. With tight fiscal and monetary policy, they can’t do that
@LMAO
It's right at the intersection of where working-class populism and conservativism diverge. They diverge because the populists support government spending as long as they believe the working class are the primary beneficiaries.
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He's not a conservative. He just isn't. He's a populist, and maybe there are a lot of folks who would prefer a populist to a conservative, and that's obviously their prerogative. But for those of us who are policy-based conservatives, he's just not that guy.
:shrug:
Ok, but he could bring in people who are policy-based conservatives. Did he do that last time? Well, partially, but as we all know he made some really bad choices especially in terms of his DOJ and such.
Is it realistic to expect a staunch conservative to win in today's climate? If they can't win the primary how will they win in the general?
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Although they won’t admit it out loud, I think the reason many Trumper’s have contempt for fiscal conservatives is because they want to grow the government in their image. With tight fiscal and monetary policy, they can’t do that
@LMAO
And right along with your Fiscal/Coolidge commentary (which is brilliantly true in any case) comes a direct correlation to liberty, and the loss thereof, which cannot be denied... I bark at Tumpy because of fiscal concerns primarily because of his awful record, and his spending is entirely without defense - But without a doubt my basic Conservative views are founded in liberty more than any other thing.
And that liberty is profoundly linked to the size of government. There is NO SUCH THING as a big government Conservative, because in every aspect, big government denies Conservatism, and asserts control - EVEN the Tumpist's 'beneficial' populist, who left a bigger and grander government to the Democrats that came after him, in the use of that government to greatly curtail my liberty and take my treasure.
It is just that simple. NO big government is good government, and ANYONE considering themselves to be conservative must admit it. Sooner or later, government will leave you broke and enslaved. It's what they do.
GREAT posting. :beer: :seeya:
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@Mesaclone
In all honestly, I see no plausible scenario where a significant number of GOP voters don't refuse to vote for the eventual nominee. There are just too many principled beliefs on both sides that are going to render too many GOP voters unwilling to vote for the nominee.
So we may just be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic at this point.
Populism is never principled. It is in fact, the destruction thereof. Always.
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Populism is never principled. It is in fact, the destruction thereof. Always.
Well... define populism then. Seems to have different meanings to different people.
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Well... define populism then. Seems to have different meanings to different people.
This will do as a working definition..:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism
Its aims are not the point. In its DNA it is nothing more than a strain of popularism - either by the ascent of a popular figure (always without the chops) as a messiah, or by centering around popular themes of the day as the will of the people, ALWAYS requiring profound principle to be sacrificed in order to save the day today. Or BOTH.
Tumpy's movement is no different than any other, demanding the sacrifice of fiscal coservatism and libertarianism on the altar of saving America with big government... When in truth, at the root, the only thing that WILL save America are those very things they summarily destroy.
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While we debate big government populism versus fiscal conservatism, the situation we are facing right now is a debt to GDP ratio well above 100%. We also have inflation that is way too high and wiping out people’s savings and standard of living. Add a soft economy, and the banks aren’t looking too good along with the looming insolvency facing Social Security and Medicare. So this debate is not in the abstract or a concern at some future time
And I think I’m safe in predicting these issues will be more problematic by 2024. No doubt the Biden administration will use budget gimmicks to hide them.
I prefer math
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While we debate big government populism versus fiscal conservatism, the situation we are facing right now is a debt to GDP ratio well above 100%. We also have inflation that is way too high and wiping out people’s savings and standard of living. Add a soft economy, and the banks aren’t looking too good along with the looming insolvency facing Social Security and Medicare. So this debate is not in the abstract or a concern at some future time
And I think I’m safe in predicting these issues will be more problematic by 2024. No doubt the Biden administration will use budget gimmicks to hide them.
I prefer math
:thumbsup:
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:shrug:
Ok, but he could bring in people who are policy-based conservatives. Did he do that last time? Well, partially, but as we all know he made some really bad choices especially in terms of his DOJ and such.
Is it realistic to expect a staunch conservative to win in today's climate? If they can't win the primary how will they win in the general?
Obviously, you're not going to turn this country into a laissez-faire capitalist utopia overnight. But I don't think asking for someone who doesn't openly mock/attack conservative ideas on entitlements is demanding too much.
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Obviously, you're not going to turn this country into a laissez-faire capitalist utopia overnight. But I don't think asking for someone who doesn't openly mock/attack conservative ideas on entitlements is demanding too much.
First, do no harm. :beer:
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He's not a conservative. He just isn't. He's a populist, and maybe there are a lot of folks who would prefer a populist to a conservative, and that's obviously their prerogative. But for those of us who are policy-based conservatives, he's just not that guy.
Yup
Maybe we can clone Calvin Coolidge for 2028. We’re gonna need him.
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I had always thought conservatism had a major populist streak anyway, with railing against "liberal elites".
I'm not sure how any "ism" gains any traction without some populism.
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I had always thought conservatism had a major populist streak anyway, with railing against "liberal elites".
I'm not sure how any "ism" gains any traction without some populism.
Principles, not politics.
Sure there is some - Reagan as the father of the modern movement... Goldwater...
Cruz was a shining boy... But ALL of that is based on merit. Not popularity.
Which is as it ought to be. Walk the line and you will be a famous Conservative.
Because they are so few and far between.
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DeSantis should expedite him to NY. Trump's past or present BS is not his problem.
He paid into that society for decades, political and otherwise.
'Throw him back to the fishes' as somewhat of a @Gefn analogy.
No apologies ever needed @corbe. Just send me kitten photos