The Briefing Room
General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => History => Topic started by: rangerrebew on December 11, 2018, 04:49:16 pm
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Why Did Humans Lose Their Fur?
We are the naked apes of the world, having shed most of our body hair long ago
By Jason Daley
Millions of modern humans ask themselves the same question every morning while looking in the mirror: Why am I so hairy? As a society, we spend millions of dollars per year on lip waxing, eyebrow threading, laser hair removal, and face and leg shaving, not to mention the cash we hand over to Supercuts or the neighborhood salon. But it turns out we are asking the wrong question—at least according to scientists who study human genetics and evolution. For them, the big mystery is why we are so hairless.
Evolutionary theorists have put forth numerous hypotheses for why humans became the naked mole rats of the primate world. Did we adapt to semi-aquatic environments? Does bare skin help us sweat to keep cool while hunting during the heat of the day? Did we lose our fur to read each other's emotional responses such as fuming or blushing? Scientists aren't exactly sure, but biologists are beginning to understand the physical mechanism that makes humans the naked apes. In particular, a recent study in the journal Cell Reports has begun to depilate the mystery at the molecular and genetic level.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-did-humans-evolve-lose-fur-180970980/ (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-did-humans-evolve-lose-fur-180970980/)
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It really took hold in the cave-dwelling era. Dragging a mate through the rocks and brush can really take off the fur.
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It really took hold in the cave-dwelling era. Dragging a mate through the rocks and brush can really take off the fur.
Fleas. You don't have fleas if you're not hairy.
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Aliens were hunting us for our pelts. We had to evolve or die.
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Because of Brazil and their fads.
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Fleas. You don't have fleas if you're not hairy.
Don't forget the lice.
Back when my dad got that job in Egypt he took my brother and me to meet his Egyptian counterpart. The guy was mostly bald. Somewhen during the talk, this flea comes marching across his dome. Made it very difficult to not watch the flea. The guy either had great self-control or just didn't care. But the flea made it from one side of the dome to the other.
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Because of Brazil and their fads.
Brazil? Too much heat and humidity made fur unnecessary?
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Don't forget the lice.
Back when my dad got that job in Egypt he took my brother and me to meet his Egyptian counterpart. The guy was mostly bald. Somewhen during the talk, this flea comes marching across his dome. Made it very difficult to not watch the flea. The guy either had great self-control or just didn't care. But the flea made it from one side of the dome to the other.
No, I wouldn't want to forget them.
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Alopecia?
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@Sanguine
Who is @Cyber Liberty talking to? I don't recognize the name.
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@Sanguine
Who is @Cyber Liberty talking to? I don't recognize the name.
LOL. That would make a good screen name....
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Early humans were persistence hunters, like wolves. We can't sprint faster than most of our prey, but we can chase it until it collapses from exhaustion. Our ability to sweat is crucial for that. I think fur would make it a lot more difficult to keep from overheating while chasing prey for miles and miles.
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LOL. That would make a good screen name....
Yeah, it would. We'd call him Al.
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Early humans were persistence hunters, like wolves. We can't sprint faster than most of our prey, but we can chase it until it collapses from exhaustion. Our ability to sweat is crucial for that. I think fur would make it a lot more difficult to keep from overheating while chasing prey for miles and miles.
Horses sweat. A lot. And, they can trot for a long time.
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Horses sweat. A lot. And, they can trot for a long time.
So do pigs. And just think. If it wasn't for all the sweating from the effort, getting their feathers wet, they could FLY.
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Horses sweat. A lot. And, they can trot for a long time.
I'm pretty sure a human trained for persistence hunting could catch and kill a horse. Our bodies are excellent at dealing with heat. Some animals can definitely run long distances with fur, but I think us not having fur has something to do with why we are one of the best in the animal kingdom when it comes to that.
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Alopecia?
Mange? :thud:
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Mange? :thud:
Mite be.
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I'm pretty sure a human trained for persistence hunting could catch and kill a horse. Our bodies are excellent at dealing with heat. Some animals can definitely run long distances with fur, but I think us not having fur has something to do with why we are one of the best in the animal kingdom when it comes to that.
Ever tried to catch a horse that didn't want to be caught?
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So manscaping and Brazilian waxes could be invented, :silly:
Or so men could buy women fur coats before PETA was invented?
I’m in a silly mood. I wouldn’t wear a fur coat but I might wear a faux fur one.
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Ever tried to catch a horse that didn't want to be caught?
No. haha
I've also never chased prey for 20+ miles.
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No. haha
I've also never chased prey for 20+ miles.
It isn't pursuing the prey. It is outthinking it.
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...........she says. “No one understands really at all how these differences arise.â€
In a nutshell... the whole of the article....
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Don't forget the lice.
Back when my dad got that job in Egypt he took my brother and me to meet his Egyptian counterpart. The guy was mostly bald. Somewhen during the talk, this flea comes marching across his dome. Made it very difficult to not watch the flea. The guy either had great self-control or just didn't care. But the flea made it from one side of the dome to the other.
Something about North Africa and bugs. I worked with an Algerian who would sit there and talk to me with flies crawling across his face and not even twitch.... Me, I would have shooed the darned things away. :shrug:
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Well, the Garden of Eden was the perfect temperature, so I'm pretty sure we never had fur.
No need.
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Alopecia?
lol....Medical term for loss of hair on scalp. :thumbsup:
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I kind of liked the Aquatic Ape theory when I first read about it years ago. The so-called experts have poo-poohed the theory, but then they do that with pretty much every theory which doesn't conform to the scientific orthodoxy.
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...Wrong premise with which to begin....
Otzi
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I'm pretty sure a human trained for persistence hunting could catch and kill a horse. Our bodies are excellent at dealing with heat. Some animals can definitely run long distances with fur, but I think us not having fur has something to do with why we are one of the best in the animal kingdom when it comes to that.
Humans became able to catch and kill large, fast, animals, not because we could outrun them, but because we could out think them. working together helps a lot. Buffalo jumps, corralling efforts, all require 'setting' up the herd animals, either to be forced into an area where they would stampede to their doom, or be contained. Working together in groups (and, yes, communication of complex ideas), permitted humans to capture or kill those animals.
As for running down a horse, in open country they can sprint at 20-25 miles per hour, and rest for a long time before humans catch up. Only by forcing them into terrain where they can't use their speed to their advantage can they be captured otherwise--or by luring them in with bait--something which isn't really possible in areas where there is abundant food.
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Something about North Africa and bugs. I worked with an Algerian who would sit there and talk to me with flies crawling across his face and not even twitch.... Me, I would have shooed the darned things away. :shrug:
I've seen the same thing. The worst were the flies that went right for the eyes or mouth. Everyone called them Sh*t files. Reason being they were looking for a drink after a lunch of human excrement.
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It isn't pursuing the prey. It is outthinking it.
We are definitely much better at closing distances and conserving energy. Early humans must have been very scary to the prey they chased down.
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This 5,300-Year-Old Corpse Was Found by Accident | Smithsonian
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/.../this-5300-year-old-corpse-was-found-by-ac... (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/.../this-5300-year-old-corpse-was-found-by-ac...)
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Iceman Ötzi's stomach bacteria 'rewrite the textbooks' – video ...
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Ötzi the Iceman is the modern nickname of a well-preserved natural mummy of a man from about 3300 BC, found in 1991 in a glacier of the Otztal Alps,...
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So manscaping and Brazilian waxes could be invented, :silly:
Or so men could buy women fur coats before PETA was invented?
I’m in a silly mood. I wouldn’t wear a fur coat but I might wear a faux fur one.
Our views on fur may differ, but the animal is done with it, why not? Most of the source animals aren't exactly the nicest critters on the planet, either. Also, there are huge differences between the texture and feel of real fur versus faux fur. The ruff around the hood of my extreme cold weather parka is real fur, because the fake would accumulate ice and the real fur doesn't.
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We are definitely much better at closing distances and conserving energy. Early humans must have been very scary to the prey they chased down.
Humans really got scary with closing distances and conserving energy once we got on horseback. On foot, not so much. Capturing or hunting faster animals became more a question of teamwork, communication, and out thinking the prey, it isn't something that comes from raw ability to outdistance any of them.
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I kind of liked the Aquatic Ape theory when I first read about it years ago. The so-called experts have poo-poohed the theory, but then they do that with pretty much every theory which doesn't conform to the scientific orthodoxy.
This sounds half right. Half never have quite lost their...aquatic flavor...
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Our views on fur may differ, but the animal is done with it, why not? Most of the source animals aren't exactly the nicest critters on the planet, either. Also, there are huge differences between the texture and feel of real fur versus faux fur. The ruff around the hood of my extreme cold weather parka is real fur, because the fake would accumulate ice and the real fur doesn't.
My mother has a seal coat and a mink. She told me I could have one when she is no longer here. Now that I fit into them, she offered to let me have one now. I remember as a child thinking they were glamorous. Like old Hollywood. Now, no. It’s not me. I told her I would sell it because I just don’t want it plus I have to store it in a freezer during the spring and summer.
She’s cool with it and will try to sell them both.
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My mother has a seal coat and a mink. She told me I could have one when she is no longer here. Now that I fit into them, she offered to let me have one now. I remember as a child thinking they were glamorous. Like old Hollywood. Now, no. It’s not me. I told her I would sell it because I just don’t want it plus I have to store it in a freezer during the spring and summer.
She’s cool with it and will try to sell them both.
You could move to a colder climate, and then you'd only have to store it a couple of months... :shrug: (just kidding, keep in mind where I'm from).
It is your choice, and more power to you either way. Above all things, to thine own self be true.
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Well, the Garden of Eden was the perfect temperature, so I'm pretty sure we never had fur.
No need.
Uh.... I've seen some hairy chests (not up close and personally, mind you...lol) that might beg to differ on that. :silly:
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Mite be.
Haha! Good one. happy77
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On foot, not so much.
Persistence hunting takes place during the hottest time of the day and involves chasing an animal until it is run to exhaustion. A critical factor is the fact that humans can keep their bodies cool by sweating while running. Another critical factor is the ability to track down an animal.
http://www.academia.edu/5545172/Persistence_Hunting_by_Modern_Hunter_Gatherers (http://www.academia.edu/5545172/Persistence_Hunting_by_Modern_Hunter_Gatherers)
On foot for sure. There's not always an opportunity to corner an animal or do something else clever. Sometimes they had to just run them to exhaustion. Humans are pretty badass.
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It is time.
Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCI18qAoKq4#)
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http://www.academia.edu/5545172/Persistence_Hunting_by_Modern_Hunter_Gatherers (http://www.academia.edu/5545172/Persistence_Hunting_by_Modern_Hunter_Gatherers)
On foot for sure. There's not always an opportunity to corner an animal or do something else clever. Sometimes they had to just run them to exhaustion. Humans are pretty badass.
In the American west, there are almost always subtle (and in some cases not so subtle) topographic features which enable the capture or containment of herd animals if they can be driven into those features. Here, specifically, and in many of the areas I have been in, there are valleys and even box canyons which will do quite nicely. As an alternative, chasing the herd toward a cliff works, too, and the numerous identified buffalo jump sites across the west attest to this. Chasing some critter 20 km in the heat of the day may be a way to get (some damned gamey) meat, but there are more efficient means. The enclosure may not necessarily even be physical, if stationed hunters pop up from concealment and turn the herd or use fire to alter its movement. Terrain features that may not be apparent from the modern roadside exist and the hunters would know the area best to take advantage of those. One example you showed had a track that doubled back repeatedly. that could have been avoided through cooperation and coordination, and stationing hunters to block return routes. So, too, could a drive/stand technique where hunters wait in concealment along game trails while others drive the herd past (and spear the animals as they pass). It is a technique still used, even in the era of firearms.
Even sitting next to the trail to the water hole with a favorable wind beats running 20 km in the mid day heat. Humans get heat stroke, too.
There are far better techniques for hunting than chasing something down on foot, again, it is the ability of humans to out think their prey that made them an apex predator.
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You could move to a colder climate, and then you'd only have to store it a couple of months... :shrug: (just kidding, keep in mind where I'm from).
It is your choice, and more power to you either way. Above all things, to thine own self be true.
I am moving to a colder climate probably in the next ten years or so. that’s one of the th8ngs keeping me sane.
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I am moving to a colder climate probably in the next ten years or so. that’s one of the th8ngs keeping me sane.
Where are you headed?
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Uh.... I've seen some hairy chests (not up close and personally, mind you...lol) that might beg to differ on that. :silly:
Come to think of it, I've seen some pretty hairy backs on some lesser evolved males as well...... :terror:
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My mother has a seal coat and a mink. She told me I could have one when she is no longer here. Now that I fit into them, she offered to let me have one now.
My mom was old school-She had mink and fur coats. When she passed away none of my sisters, SIL's, Nieces etc wanted them. No longer in style or out of vogue due to the fur I guess. If I recall they threw them in the trash.
I never see women wearing mink anymore at formal get togethers or dinners.
They sure did fight over the diamonds though.
@Freya
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Uh.... I've seen some hairy chests (not up close and personally, mind you...lol) that might beg to differ on that. :silly:
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/large/img/rlJ4bLMYpwh3KmC59nKJkeZjj7Y=/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:no_upscale()/pic4297691.jpg)
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Keeping my mothers mink coat. VERY warm, when we move into the ice age. (grinning)
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Come to think of it, I've seen some pretty hairy backs on some lesser evolved males as well...... :terror:
Gives new meaning to that "Cave Man" imagery, doesn't it. :laugh:
Might explain why I've always preferred my men to be shaven (or not needing to shave...ie Cherokee). That's not to say I haven't known a few hunks with beards.... hehe. :whistle:
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(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/large/img/rlJ4bLMYpwh3KmC59nKJkeZjj7Y=/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:no_upscale()/pic4297691.jpg)
Ehhh.....
nuh uh. :laugh:
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Gives new meaning to that "Cave Man" imagery, doesn't it. :laugh:
Might explain why I've always preferred my men to be shaven (or not needing to shave...ie Cherokee). That's not to say I haven't known a few hunks with beards.... hehe. :whistle:
I'm convinced we have a couple of them on this forum............ but I won't name names. wink777
I dated a guy with a beard and married one with a moustache, but they weren't furry, and that was a good thing.
Never dated a Cherokee, though. happy77
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Yeah lets bash the men.
Plenty of women would look like this if they did not shave everyday. Places that do hair removal via waxing for woman can give you horror stories.
Women with "fur trails" up to their belly button is way more comon than you think...in winter months when they let themselves go.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/55/5c/35555c7d69cfa1c2a083b3e00f908dab.jpg)
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No. haha
I've also never chased prey for 20+ miles.
Neither has anyone else. The idea is just plain dumb.
what you catch has to be worth more than the calories expended. by a lot.
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We are definitely much better at closing distances and conserving energy. Early humans must have been very scary to the prey they chased down.
No, we are not. Who the heck filled your head with such nonsense?
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http://www.academia.edu/5545172/Persistence_Hunting_by_Modern_Hunter_Gatherers (http://www.academia.edu/5545172/Persistence_Hunting_by_Modern_Hunter_Gatherers)
On foot for sure. There's not always an opportunity to corner an animal or do something else clever. Sometimes they had to just run them to exhaustion. Humans are pretty badass.
There ya go, listening to foolish academics who have probably never even caught a fish.
The entire premise of running down game is utterly foolish.
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There ya go, listening to foolish academics who have probably never even caught a fish.
The entire premise of running down game is utterly foolish.
I don't think we are capable of outrunning any large game. Small game, maybe...
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I don't think we are capable of outrunning any large game. Small game, maybe...
No running. Throwing rocks and sticks, yeah.
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I don't think we are capable of outrunning any large game. Small game, maybe...
NO. No game. The entire premise is idiotic.
Living primitively is an exercise in conservation. Calories come hard enough without expending energy to get them. Run all day, with thirty pounds of stuff on your back, only to miss the shot... Now what? Run another day for another chance at a shot? Pure nonsense.
@Smokin Joe is right.
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Pfft... like you outdorsmen know more about hunting and surving "off grid" more than some faggy, liberal school teacher does.
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Yeah lets bash the men.
Plenty of women would look like this if they did not shave everyday. Places that do hair removal via waxing for woman can give you horror stories.
Women with "fur trails" up to their belly button is way more comon than you think...in winter months when they let themselves go.
]
That pic is not right (or she is Italian)... Women who have never shaved don't look like that.
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That pic is not right (or she is Italian)... Women who have never shaved don't look like that.
Ones that are hormonaly confused do.
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Ones that are hormonaly confused do.
:shrug:
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Guy down in Colorado that worked with my dad used to use his vacation to guide hunts. He had buttons, similar to this, he would hand out on occasion.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2oqv3p.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/2oqv3p)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
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Guy down in Colorado that worked with my dad used to use his vacation to guide hunts. He had buttons, similar to this, he would hand out on occasion.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2oqv3p.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/2oqv3p)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
That has to be the saddest sight for a hunter. Big, fat game and no way to shoot. 8888crybaby
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Guy down in Colorado that worked with my dad used to use his vacation to guide hunts. He had buttons, similar to this, he would hand out on occasion.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2oqv3p.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/2oqv3p)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
lol. Poor deer they don't know their white flag, helps hunters find them. I've eaten Venison. A bit lean, needs bacon or be made into sausage. Great as sausage. Elk too.
:tree3: MERRY CHRISTMAS!
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Guy down in Colorado that worked with my dad used to use his vacation to guide hunts. He had buttons, similar to this, he would hand out on occasion.
We went out with this guy in CO on a hunt. One of his clients shot a big, fat, cow elk straight up the tailpipe. Through the gut, lungs. Exiting from her throat. No meat was damaged. The problem was he had a bull tag...
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We went out with this guy in CO on a hunt. One of his clients shot a big, fat, cow elk straight up the tailpipe. Through the gut, lungs. Exiting from her throat. No meat was damaged. The problem was he had a bull tag...
Time to look for some sheds... Always carry a couple 16 penny nails for such an occasion.
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:tree3: MERRY CHRISTMAS!
And a very MERRY CHRISTMAS to you too, love! :tree3:
(So glad the wonderful tree was added to the posting page!)
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Time to look for some sheds... Always carry a couple 16 penny nails for such an occasion.
It wasn't much of a problem. My dad, bro, me, the guide, his son, all had cow tags. But these fool clients either couldn't tell, or didn't know the difference. They were all hunting bulls. The guide always prepared by asking around, the locals, who had cow tags. And to be ready. That day there were 11 clients. They managed to shoot 5 cows. We had five cow tags. That day. But you don't punch one unless you have to. The guide was a lifetime resident. He would encourage older people, or people who couldn't get out to hunt to put in for cow elk. Who could refuse an elk, cut and wrapped, delivered to their freezer?
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Yeah lets bash the men.
Plenty of women would look like this if they did not shave everyday. Places that do hair removal via waxing for woman can give you horror stories.
Women with "fur trails" up to their belly button is way more comon than you think...in winter months when they let themselves go.
Laughing at all the things that could be said to a young male talking to a bunch of women as to how HE knows what WE do not know about women's body hair.
But using all the self-control I have to just laugh and say nothing at all. :rolling:
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There ya go, listening to foolish academics who have probably never even caught a fish.
The entire premise of running down game is utterly foolish.
There are still primitive humans that hunt that way.
Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o#)
Many believe this type of hunting was vital to our very early survival.
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There are still primitive humans that hunt that way.
Many believe this type of hunting was vital to our very early survival.
Riiight. I think that is mostly bullshit. It sure as hell won't work here.
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Riiight. I think that is mostly bullshit. It sure as hell won't work here.
@roamer_1
It was probably “scientists†who told him that.
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@roamer_1
It was probably “scientists†who told him that.
@Axeslinger
and the TeeVee...
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The guide was a lifetime resident. He would encourage older people, or people who couldn't get out to hunt to put in for cow elk. Who could refuse an elk, cut and wrapped, delivered to their freezer?
That's right. Heck, I'd even be happy to pay for the cut and wrap, and still make out like a bandit.
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@Axeslinger
and the TeeVee...
I bet there were a helluva lot of people, before they acquired the use of a horse, that starved to death, especially in winter.
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I bet there were a helluva lot of people, before they acquired the use of a horse, that starved to death, especially in winter.
@bigheadfred
Especially if they decided the best way to get that whitetail deer was to chase it until it got tired
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I bet there were a helluva lot of people, before they acquired the use of a horse, that starved to death, especially in winter.
It is tough to think about it... You and me are prolly far less dependent on the supermarket - I know I am... between wild meat, the farm, and the garden, I don't really NEED that much from the system. Even the gear I need to be this way - Seldom new, usually bought used and broken...
But try figgering out how to do it without the garden, and 100% from the hunt, even just for yourself, not to mention draggin a passel of kids, a woman, and a grandma or two around...
I am trying right now to get to something pre-canning - preserving as much as I can without a processing kitchen... It is a tough thing to do.
And no food before winter means you're dead. Not enough through winter means you're dead. And not enough to make it through spring still means you're dead.
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I bet there were a helluva lot of people, before they acquired the use of a horse, that starved to death, especially in winter.
And, some winters those with horses would have to eat them.
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It is tough to think about it... You and me are prolly far less dependent on the supermarket - I know I am... between wild meat, the farm, and the garden, I don't really NEED that much from the system. Even the gear I need to be this way - Seldom new, usually bought used and broken...
But try figgering out how to do it without the garden, and 100% from the hunt, even just for yourself, not to mention draggin a passel of kids, a woman, and a grandma or two around...
I am trying right now to get to something pre-canning - preserving as much as I can without a processing kitchen... It is a tough thing to do.
And no food before winter means you're dead. Not enough through winter means you're dead. And not enough to make it through spring still means you're dead.
I don't have a garden. So I am stuck with the supermarket. I tend to buy canned veggies by the case(s). I was thinking I need to restock on the veggie side, the other day. I think we are good for a while on the meat side. I think it is both the religion (LDS) and the Depression that instilled in most of my family to have a large food supply, on hand, always.
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So men could better see the boobies.
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I don't have a garden. So I am stuck with the supermarket. I tend to buy canned veggies by the case(s). I was thinking I need to restock on the veggie side, the other day. I think we are good for a while on the meat side. I think it is both the religion (LDS) and the Depression that instilled in most of my family to have a large food supply, on hand, always.
It is just the Country in me. Everybody outside of town has a couple years put up. It's just how you do.
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That pic is not right (or she is Italian)... Women who have never shaved don't look like that.
There are plenty that would look like that of thy did not shave it off. Some men have zero hair on their chest and back, some look like sasquatch. Same with women. Not all have the same amount of hair.
Yes>Italian women=hairy
@roamer_1
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It is just the Country in me. Everybody outside of town has a couple years put up. It's just how you do.
Must be a regional thing. We live out in the sticks and we are the only ones who put in a garden. I offered to plow up a garden for several neighbors and was told no. Pure laziness-they said it was easier to just buy from Krogers.
@roamer_1
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How do I report a vulgar PM to a Mod?
I’ve never gotten one until today so I. don’t know what to do.
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How do I report a vulgar PM to a Mod?
@musiclady you can PM me.
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Thank you.
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Must be a regional thing. We live out in the sticks and we are the only ones who put in a garden. I offered to plow up a garden for several neighbors and was told no. Pure laziness-they said it was easier to just buy from Krogers.
@roamer_1
@mirraflake
Nope... Been up and down the Rockies, and have kin in KS, MO, MS... NoDak, SoDak, ID, WY, WA, OR... Been on ranches east of the hump and west. Every farm or mountain homestead I have been on is always the same way. Enough to prove the rule. Anyone who cans, and most do, is gonna have surplus - That surplus winds up being 2-3 years worth of canning in the pantry (that seems to be most folks rollover point) The only difference in my experience is that hillbillies tend to be more so, because they tend to can up meat too - Generally not relying as much on freezers, because power tends to be unreliable that far out in the sticks.
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There are plenty that would look like that of thy did not shave it off. Some men have zero hair on their chest and back, some look like sasquatch. Same with women. Not all have the same amount of hair.
Yes>Italian women=hairy
@roamer_1
@mirraflake
TRUE.
What I am pointing out is that gals who have never seen a razor tend to have a finer fur. not as thick in density or per hair... Though I will grant that by and large, those I know would be northern European tribes and native... So tending toward less hair.
But a lass that never saw a razor is a different thing to one who shaved for some time and then quit.
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We went out with this guy in CO on a hunt. One of his clients shot a big, fat, cow elk straight up the tailpipe. Through the gut, lungs. Exiting from her throat. No meat was damaged. The problem was he had a bull tag...
Ha ha...He couldn't tell the DIFFERENCE, shooting up the "tailpipe?" A lot of clearance. :silly:
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And a very MERRY CHRISTMAS to you too, love! :tree3:
(So glad the wonderful tree was added to the posting page!)
Yes, I love it, as I am a Christmas person. So thank you Mystery or the mods, for the TREE!
I used to have dreams my whole living room had Christmas trees & decorated. Don't know what that means. :shrug:
:tree3: :tree3: :tree3: :tree3: :tree3: :tree3: :tree3:
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8888mistltoe
I’m a fan of this
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Lost most of my fur in my twenties...
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This is not the Hill to die on @mirraflake
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8888mistltoe
I’m a fan of this
Oh, I did not see that, on the "more page"? I will look. NICE! I love it all! :thumbsup:
Merry Christmas to you! :tree3: 9999santa. 888deco. 8888mistltoe 9999santa
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Oh, I did not see that, on the "more page"? I will look. NICE! I love it all! :thumbsup:
Merry Christmas to you! :tree3: 9999santa. 888deco. 8888mistltoe 9999santa
You can ask to have more added.
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Rudolph and pointsetta