The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: edpc on April 01, 2018, 05:55:06 pm
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China is imposing tariffs on more than 125 US imports including fruit and pork, heightening fears of a trade war between the two countries.
Tariffs of up to 25 per cent go into effect on Monday as President Xi Jinping's government followed through on a threat to impose the measures.
China confirmed it has suspended duty concessions on 128 US imports after President Donald Trump's tariffs on steel and aluminium "caused serious damage" to Beijing's interests.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/china-imposes-tariffs-128-imports-12288162 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/china-imposes-tariffs-128-imports-12288162)
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Yeah. After having their Stooge running North Korea hurl missiles around worked out so well for them.
Go back after the Rest of the Federal Consumption tax (Corp Income) in this proposed 2nd round of tax cuts and the Trade War we unconditionally surrendered in already won't be a issue, because the Chi-Com Govt and Military will collapse.
Without our Money and our Markets, they starve.
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Without our money and our markets, they starve.
They've got people to spare and total control over information. Their government has shown a complete willingness in the past to sacrifice millions to achieve their goals.
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So we put tariffs on steel, and they put tariffs on 125 different items. Who are the d-bags here?
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"The Trump administration hasn't published its list of Chinese goods that will face tariffs, but US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer told CNBC last week it would total more than $50bn (£35bn) and include "largely high-technology things".
HAHAHAHAHA.
China, renowned world leader in inventing 'High Technology' products.
Oh stop it. You're killing me. :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
Cutting off their own nose to 'Virtue (which they don't have) /Power Signal'
Their Nork Rocket Signaler got what amounted to the back of Beijing's hand when he rode his antique Tooner-ville Trolly Train into town.
We shouldn't be trading with China at all.
The sooner it goes bust and Everyone pulls out of China the better and safer place the whole world will be.
Then we can get serious about rooting out and deporting Chinese Secret Political Police and Industrial Spies and kicking them out of America.
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China, renowned world leader in inventing 'High Technology' products.
They don’t come up with a lot of the ideas, but they’re responsible for making most of it.
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All this Free Trade (giving away the store) crap was accompanied with pronouncements that it would open the door to Peace and Understanding through Global Democratization as the benighted serfs enjoyed a Higher Standard of Living from all that economic goodness headed their way.
China's Grand Poo-Bah just made himself Supreme Exalted Leader for Life.
The whole thing's been a Crock from the start.
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The whole thing's been a Crock from the start.
That was because Nixon was desperate to do something to get out of the Watergate shadow. They still struggled for two decades. Clinton’s sellout was the fatal blow.
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https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2016/08/04/china-drug-safety-fda-heparin/ (https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2016/08/04/china-drug-safety-fda-heparin/)
Pharmaceutical and ingredients manufacturers in China and India have come under intense scrutiny in recent years due to a series of disturbing events. In 2008, for instance, 246 deaths in the United States were linked to a fake ingredient from China that was found in the blood thinner heparin. China is now the world’s largest supplier of active pharmaceutical ingredients.
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:yawn2:
That will show us.
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What will we do without deadly Chinese drywall?
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What will we do without deadly Chinese drywall?
Or Chinese made parts for our military fighter jets?
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Chinese+made+US+Fighter+plane+parts&qs=n&form=QBLH&sp=-1&pq=chinese+made+us+fighter+plane+parts&sc=0-35&sk=&cvid=F3206B9961AC471990A04B321653D50C (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Chinese+made+US+Fighter+plane+parts&qs=n&form=QBLH&sp=-1&pq=chinese+made+us+fighter+plane+parts&sc=0-35&sk=&cvid=F3206B9961AC471990A04B321653D50C)
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What will we do without deadly Chinese drywall?
I still have a sheet of that drywall in my garage. It was so inexpensive. Just needed a small piece. So I guess I will have cheap chalk for the rest of my life.
:silly:
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"..... trade wars are good, and easy to win.â€
President Donald J Trump
March 2, 2018
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They don’t come up with a lot of the ideas, but they’re responsible for making most of it.
Exactly, most in the US have absolutely both how ruthless and how patient the Chinese are.
I worked for a high tech company back in the 80's that had a licensing agreement to build its product in Shanghai. I'd fly over every month and stay a week or two "supervising" our Chinese counterparts. It quickly became apparent to me that the their only interest in our company was to gain our expertise and they would never consider us a "partner" in the enterprise despite what the contracts that had been signed said, their goal was simply to learn how we made what we made.
Of course, they didn't renew the license they continued to make what we made and the company I worked for failed.
The Chinese play the long game. They have built up an immense trade surplus with the US over the last generation. They will use the "American trade war" to weaken the most vulnerable US industries and likely, in the long run, destroy them.
American politicians play the wake up and see what can we can kick down the road today game. We have built up immense deficits over the last generation. Picking a fight that one cannot win in government, as well as in life, shows weakness and desperation.... :shrug:
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Yeah. After having their Stooge running North Korea hurl missiles around worked out so well for them.
Go back after the Rest of the Federal Consumption tax (Corp Income) in this proposed 2nd round of tax cuts and the Trade War we unconditionally surrendered in already won't be a issue, because the Chi-Com Govt and Military will collapse.
Without our Money and our Markets, they starve.
Without their cheap goods we will have massive inflation. Trade is mutually beneficial. <That is a big NOPE>will never understand that.
And, you misspelled it.
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Without their cheap goods we will have massive inflation.
That's not how inflation works.
China putting tariffs on food is a really bad idea. They stay on the cusp of a famine all the time.
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That's not how inflation works. China putting tariffs on food is a really bad idea. They stay on the cusp of a famine all the time.
They chose some things like pork and fruit to go after red state support in the Midwest and South East. Back when the tariffs were first announced, I said we'd know China was serious if they responded with their own in our agricultural sector. The ones that would show they're really digging in would be a tariffs on chicken and soy.
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That's not how inflation works.
China putting tariffs on food is a really bad idea. They stay on the cusp of a famine all the time.
Oh really, are you an economist?
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"..... trade wars are good, and easy to win.â€
President Donald J Trump
March 2, 2018
So sayeth the self-described "King of Debt".
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Exactly, most in the US have absolutely both how ruthless and how patient the Chinese are.
I worked for a high tech company back in the 80's that had a licensing agreement to build its product in Shanghai. I'd fly over every month and stay a week or two "supervising" our Chinese counterparts. It quickly became apparent to me that the their only interest in our company was to gain our expertise and they would never consider us a "partner" in the enterprise despite what the contracts that had been signed said, their goal was simply to learn how we made what we made.
Of course, they didn't renew the license they continued to make what we made and the company I worked for failed.
The Chinese play the long game. They have built up an immense trade surplus with the US over the last generation. They will use the "American trade war" to weaken the most vulnerable US industries and likely, in the long run, destroy them.
American politicians play the wake up and see what can we can kick down the road today game. We have built up immense deficits over the last generation. Picking a fight that one cannot win in government, as well as in life, shows weakness and desperation.... :shrug:
I'm not a big fan of trade wars but I am pretty certain that our depending so heavily on Chinese production is generally a bad thing. If this results in our spreading around a few more of our mfg contracts to other countries who do not threaten us militarily it'll be positive in the long run.
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Without their cheap goods we will have massive inflation. Trade is mutually beneficial. Trumpnazees will never understand that.
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
When writing my book, I researched where our meds come from - have a whole chapter on meds and medical supplies and transfer of diseases. You say we will have "massive inflation". That is no big deal when considering millions of us die due to life saving medicine that would no longer come from China. Occasionally, a CDC inspector goes there to check their process. The operative word is "occasionally". No one is there all the time. Even with our medicines made here, the individual components come from overseas and are put together here into capsules/pills. Even our over the counter meds come from overseas. I was shocked to see we are so dependent on meds/ingredents from other countries.
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@thackney
Might want to x-post about oil pipe.
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@Weird Tolkienish Figure
When writing my book, I researched where our meds come from - have a whole chapter on meds and medical supplies and transfer of diseases. You say we will have "massive inflation". That is no big deal when considering millions of us die due to life saving medicine that would no longer come from China. Occasionally, a CDC inspector goes there to check their process. The operative word is "occasionally". No one is there all the time. Even with our medicines made here, the individual components come from overseas and are put together here into capsules/pills. Even our over the counter meds come from overseas. I was shocked to see we are so dependent on meds/ingredents from other countries.
@Victoria33
Yup. The cartoon image I have in my mind is the prepper surrounded by crates of food and ammo, clutching his chest, and an empty pill bottle at his side.
Alas, I don't have the skill to sketch it.
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@thackney
Might want to x-post about oil pipe.
Chinese tariffs, including oil pipe, go into effect
https://www.chron.com/business/energy/article/Chinese-tariffs-including-oil-pipe-go-into-12798717.php (https://www.chron.com/business/energy/article/Chinese-tariffs-including-oil-pipe-go-into-12798717.php)
Chinese tariffs on $3 billion in U.S. goods went into effect Monday, the latest move in an escalating trade fight between Beijing and Washington.
The tariffs, which were initially announced two weeks ago, targeted 128 products and include a 15 percent tariff on the steel pipe used in building oil pipelines and commonly manufactured along the Texas Gulf Coast. A steeper 25 percent tariff was placed on U.S. goods including pork and aluminum scrap....
...Last year the United States exported 832,000 metric tons of steel pipe, according to the U.S. International Trade Administration. More than 80 percent of that pipe went to Canada and Mexico, with China coming in a distant third....
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Without their cheap goods we will have massive inflation. Trade is mutually beneficial. <That is a big NOPE> will never understand that.
Define Trade. What we've been getting as Trade is the equivalent of being offered your life for your wallet in a dark alley.
Are there any parameters you use to determine 'Trade' beyond "Anything Goes"?
Do WTO agreements enter into you calculations?
https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2016-China-Report-to-Congress.pdf (https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2016-China-Report-to-Congress.pdf)
We have to keep at least 1 Carrier Battle Group on China's doorstep, as they threaten the entire hemisphere.
http://www.businessinsider.com/military-strike-syria-cost-2013-9 (http://www.businessinsider.com/military-strike-syria-cost-2013-9)
"it costs about $25 million a week for a carrier strike group in routine operations. If the carrier was used in military operations, the cost would rise to $40 million a week as a result of longer flight hours for its planes."
Figure That into the purchase price of every item of 'Cheap Imported Goods' from China.
Your solipsistic platitudinal slogans don't get the center square in this round.
Neither does your calling other people NAZIs.
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Define Trade. What we've been getting as Trade is the equivalent of being offered your life for your wallet in a dark alley.
Consumers make a decision every time they are offered a choice of buying a product. Do you want the government to dictate what they can and cannot buy?
That is trade.
Do WTO agreements enter into you calculations?
https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2016-China-Report-to-Congress.pdf (https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2016-China-Report-to-Congress.pdf)
WTO has their own process for settling trade disputes.
We have to keep at least 1 Carrier Battle Group on China's doorstep, as they threaten the entire hemisphere.
http://www.businessinsider.com/military-strike-syria-cost-2013-9 (http://www.businessinsider.com/military-strike-syria-cost-2013-9)
"it costs about $25 million a week for a carrier strike group in routine operations. If the carrier was used in military operations, the cost would rise to $40 million a week as a result of longer flight hours for its planes."
Figure That into the purchase price of every item of 'Cheap Imported Goods' from China.
Your solipsistic platitudinal slogans don't get the center square in this round.
Neither does your calling other people NAZIs.
Cutting them off economically will not do anything to encourage better integration with the West and our values. It will encourage more extremism in China.
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Without their cheap goods we will have massive inflation. Trade is mutually beneficial. <That is a big NOPE> will never understand that.
As an old commodity trader I understand that completely! I am not a Trumper nor a non-Trumper. He is our President. He has made me angry and made me happy. No one can agree on everything. That, of course, is in my humble opinion, as the DJIA has taken an almost 700 point drop. Ooops!
:facepalm2:
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@To-Whose-Benefit? @Weird Tolkienish Figure
Neither does your calling other people NAZIs.
I dislike the name calling on TBR, also. Not a good debate form.
:whistle:
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"it costs about $25 million a week for a carrier strike group in routine operations. If the carrier was used in military operations, the cost would rise to $40 million a week as a result of longer flight hours for its planes."
Figure That into the purchase price of every item of 'Cheap Imported Goods' from China.
...because the Chinese would be just sitting on their hands if we didn't trade with them. *****rollingeyes*****
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Stocks plummeting. When he first mentioned Tariffs back during the debates we said what an awful idea that proved in the past to have long lasting negative effects. Well here you go, Welcome to the new recession.
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Consumers make a decision every time they are offered a choice of buying a product. Do you want the government to dictate what they can and cannot buy?
That is trade.
WTO has their own process for settling trade disputes.
Cutting them off economically will not do anything to encourage better integration with the West and our values. It will encourage more extremism in China.
Wow. Just Wow.
After their Premier just suspended China's governing document and declared Himself Leader/Ruler for Life.
China has no interest in integrating with the west, never has had any.
In China Integrating means Dominating.
You're backing Communism/Slave Labor this time by resorting to the Libertarian Trade Shibboleth when your original argument/gripe was 'Massive Inflation' caused by <That is a big NOPE>.
WTO has their own process for settling "Trade Disputes"
And just Who is going to Enforce their 'Process'?
Like the 'Peace Process' in the Middle East.
It's what you have when you don't have Peace.
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Wow. Just Wow.
After their Premier just suspended China's governing document and declared Himself Leader/Ruler for Life.
China has no interest in integrating with the west, never has had any.
In China Integrating means Dominating.
You're backing Communism/Slave Labor this time by resorting to the Libertarian Trade Shibboleth when your original argument/gripe was 'Massive Inflation' caused by <That is a big NOPE>.
WTO has their own process for settling "Trade Disputes"
And just Who is going to Enforce their 'Process'?
Like the 'Peace Process' in the Middle East.
It's what you have when you don't have Peace.
:shrug:
Don't take my word for it, look at the stock market. Tanking for no other reason than the Trumpertantrum.
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As for the Market, why the hair tearing fit with every mkt downturn?
It won't recover?
Because, . . . because, . . . . but, but, . . . . Trump!
What did you Expect when the Slave Labor/Communist Status Quo was threatened?
Where were the 'BUT TRUMP' folks when Xi's Stooge was popping off Missiles all over the region?
Somebody want to tell me WHY the mkt won't recover this time?
If it was Govt guaranteed to never go down, it would implode and burn like everything Else the Government Officially Takes Over.
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Stocks plummeting. When he first mentioned Tariffs back during the debates we said what an awful idea that proved in the past to have long lasting negative effects. Well here you go, Welcome to the new recession.
It's not like we didn't have recent evidence of what damage tariffs do. The last one, a steel tariff, imposed by the last Bush admin cost 200,000 American jobs. They revoked the tariff after a year or so.
Trump has been right on a number of issues, but he's proving to be an economics ignoramus. He doesn't understand trade or deficits. This is what happens when you get an egotistical know-it-all in office who really doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does.
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Wow. Just Wow.
After their Premier just suspended China's governing document and declared Himself Leader/Ruler for Life.
China has no interest in integrating with the west, never has had any.
In China Integrating means Dominating.
You're backing Communism/Slave Labor this time by resorting to the Libertarian Trade Shibboleth when your original argument/gripe was 'Massive Inflation' caused by <That is a big NOPE>.
WTO has their own process for settling "Trade Disputes"
And just Who is going to Enforce their 'Process'?
Like the 'Peace Process' in the Middle East.
It's what you have when you don't have Peace.
What we do, we do to benefit us first, then the rest of the world. Whether China turns into a democracy or not, we do things to benefit us. Our imposing tariffs is a disastrous idea for us.
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:shrug:
Don't take my word for it, look at the stock market. Tanking for no other reason than the Trumpertantrum.
And This answer presumes that Investors are somehow Wiser and more well balanced than non-investors.
Investors are emotional critters.
There are no economic literacy tests required to engage a broker and buy in. NONE.
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What we do, we do to benefit us first, then the rest of the world. Whether China turns into a democracy or not, we do things to benefit us. Our imposing tariffs is a disastrous idea for us.
And $25 Million a Day to put a Carrier Battle group on China's doorstep is a Benefit to us?
Explain please. Who is going to get the bill for that?
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And $25 Million a Day to put a Carrier Battle group on China's doorstep is a Benefit to us?
Explain please. Who is going to get the bill for that?
There is a WEST PAC battle group deployed 365 days a year, every year. In my day they were called a Carrier Air Group. On the East Coast it was the Mediteranian where we were deployed. That 25 million is spent regardless of where the group is stationed.
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And $25 Million a Day to put a Carrier Battle group on China's doorstep is a Benefit to us?
Explain please. Who is going to get the bill for that?
Red China was a problem right from the moment we were done fighting Japanese together. Hint: that wasn't because we were getting great deals from them.
How about, if you have so much excess cash, you write checks to US steel mfgs, rather than ask us all to give them welfare?
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:shrug:
Don't take my word for it, look at the stock market. Tanking for no other reason than the Trumpertantrum.
The DJIA is up over 32% since his election.
Making better trade deals is good longer term.
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The DJIA is up over 32% since his election.
So? When Obama took office, the stock market was just under 8K. Right before the election, it was over 18K. None of that was due to his great economic policy. Touting the DJIA rise means you own the eventual downturn, if it happens on your watch.
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The DJIA is up over 32% since his election.
Making better trade deals is good longer term.
And the DJIA dropped 1100 over two days when Trump announced his steel tariffs. Then it went down another 425 points today after China announced their (inevitable) retaliatory tariffs. Maybe Trump should conduct a primer on how easy trade wars are to win so these stupid markets understand that. *****rollingeyes***** Of course, most Presidents are smart enough to know they shouldn’t try and take credit when the market goes up. Unfortunately, I’m afraid Trump just isn’t smart enough to recognize that.
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There is a WEST PAC battle group deployed 365 days a year, every year. In my day they were called a Carrier Air Group. On the East Coast it was the Mediteranian where we were deployed. That 25 million is spent regardless of where the group is stationed.
I have no argument with that.
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/party-directive-reveals-increased-chinese-theft-u-s-technology/ (http://freebeacon.com/national-security/party-directive-reveals-increased-chinese-theft-u-s-technology/)
My gripe is that it could be spent more Effectively. We wouldn't Need to tie it up in the South China Sea if we weren't FREE Trading China back up onto its feet 24/7.
"China's illicit information and technology theft costs Americans $225 billion to $600 billion annually in lost information, the USTR report said."
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The diabolical Chinamen stealing shit. What a revelation.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/2b/ea/e32bea2a0ec4c3ad688dbce9704701df.jpg)(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT47jtds2wLlqTZND5R3tEyxalD29N6a01gzTaVs9Ebnr5nkd6m)(https://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Chinese-Copy-Brands-Burger-King.jpg)(https://www.chinasmack.com/wp-content/uploads/chinasmack/2008/10/shanzhai20.jpg)
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The DJIA is up over 32% since his election.
Making better trade deals is good longer term.
So you think taxing goods will make people richer then? Sounds like a Democrat to me.
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And $25 Million a Day to put a Carrier Battle group on China's doorstep is a Benefit to us?
Explain please. Who is going to get the bill for that?
The bill will come due when our carrier battle group has to deal with the one (or two) carrier battle groups China can now afford.
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The diabolical Chinamen stealing shit. What a revelation.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT47jtds2wLlqTZND5R3tEyxalD29N6a01gzTaVs9Ebnr5nkd6m)
I can't believe they ripped that off from Wacky Packages!
(http://www.lostwackys.com/images/original-series/1st/crust2.jpg)
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The diabolical Chinamen stealing shit. What a revelation.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/2b/ea/e32bea2a0ec4c3ad688dbce9704701df.jpg)(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT47jtds2wLlqTZND5R3tEyxalD29N6a01gzTaVs9Ebnr5nkd6m)(https://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Chinese-Copy-Brands-Burger-King.jpg)(https://www.chinasmack.com/wp-content/uploads/chinasmack/2008/10/shanzhai20.jpg)
The US has been doing this for ages. Ever buy store brand products? They're usually a direct copy of some name brand product.
Capitalism 101.
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The US has been doing this for ages. Ever buy store brand products? They're usually a direct copy of some name brand product.
Capitalism 101.
Counterfeit products and copyright violation are theft in the US. Not a Govt. Sanctioned method of doing business.
In China it IS their Govt. doing business.
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Counterfeit products and copyright violation are theft in the US. Not a Govt. Sanctioned method of doing business.
In China it IS their Govt. doing business.
It's not counterfit, the items, at least those in the pictures, are clearly different with different names. In the US it'd be a trademark violation.
Counterfit products would actually have the real names, but be fake.
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So you think taxing goods will make people richer then? Sounds like a Democrat to me.
I can tell the difference between negotiating and caving in over and over.
He ran on this, and he is doing what he said he would.
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DJIA up 389 next day.
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(https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/461e63b2-d7c4-4877-9d1c-44038f9015b9.png)
This is a 4 hour chart of the E-Mini S&P. That January peak of around 2880 is up over 40% from the around 2090 level Nov 4, 2016. We didn't even trace back 50% on the subsequent profit taking, which in itself is a good sign. We also traced by 75% of the plunge and are now retesting those lows.
At best we are in a wait and see, if we can get some up move the next couple of days, then that will continue to be favorable to an up market. It's up to the sellers now to put in the volume to keep the down wave going.
Alot of what's going on is no different than happened in the late 90's. We may have more room to run, though at this point we will see a top within the next 6 months to a year.
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And then DJIA up another 230 the next day.
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The US has been doing this for ages. Ever buy store brand products? They're usually a direct copy of some name brand product.
Capitalism 101.
Can you point out to where this is happening? Store brand product have the stores name on it and different packaging......otherwise the store would be sued into oblivion. In other words I am telling you that you are full of shit.