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General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: rangerrebew on February 23, 2014, 11:00:37 am

Title: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: rangerrebew on February 23, 2014, 11:00:37 am
Elections Can’t Fix the Fundamental Transformation of the United States


February 22, 2014
By Sara Noble

Our Julius Caesar

Elections can’t fix what has happened here in the United States. We are fundamentally transformed, but we can still alter the course of events. It will take more than simply appearing at a polling station and, if we don’t work to change it now, we will end up like so many other nations existing under tyrannical rule.

Putin is rebuilding the Soviet Union. He has already seized part of Georgia and he wants the Ukraine. The people of Venezuela are rioting in the streets and Cuba is embedded in the government of president Nicolás Maduro. Iran is continuing their enrichment and Syria is hiding the chemical weapons they promised to destroy while working hand-in-glove with Iran. Egypt is infiltrated with both the Brotherhood and al Qaeda.

Totalitarianism is streaking across the world and there is little to stop it.

Freedom is a fragile thing and it is fragile even here, especially here, in the United States.

In the United States, the very things Ronald Reagan fought for are the very things Barack Obama fights against.

We see what is going on in the world and we have a false sense of security because, after all, we live in the United States. It couldn’t happen here. We say that as our country is being fundamentally transformed with a president who rules with a pen and phone and this so-called “strategy”, is to lawlessly ignore the separation of powers. It is lauded by our “free Press”.

We now live in a country where every freedom is under attack by the forces of totalitarianism in the most subtle and dangerous ways.

Totalitarianism is the stronger force because it’s adherents can use deception and they can circumvent the law. The end justifies the means. There is no law. The law is relative.

They can use thugs to do their work. When my friend was setting up a table for Hillary Clinton during the 2007 election, the Obama thugs harassed them, turned their table over, and cursed at them. My friend and her group were forced to leave out of fear.

Totalitarianism of any kind is an arrogant ideology, its advocates know what’s best and feel free to get it done however they can.

Totalitarians can violate election law. They can lie and say you can keep your insurance if you want to. They can pretend to be one thing while doing the opposite because their ideology is based on relativism and secularism, not morality. Morality is what they perceive it to be and its ever-changing. There are no absolutes like the Ten Commandments or God. yet, they will hold their opponents to the letter of the law.

It is up to us, the adherents to the law of the land, the Constitution, to undo their work, while they continue to freely pursue their totalitarian agenda in every sphere of society, unchecked. If you call them out, you are a racist, a conspiracy nut, a hater, and so on.

They are patient people. They were willing to spend decades changing the thinking of the young, even if it means rewriting history. We recently saw an example of it in a social work textbook that told a story of a racist, sexist Ronald Reagan though he was not that and quite the opposite. Whole pages in the book were dedicated to generalizing the portrayal of conservatives and the rich as selfish and cruel while liberals were depicted as caring.

The Brotherhood failed in Egypt because it wanted absolute power. We see that insatiable thirst for absolute power within the Democratic Party in the United States today. The party has changed and moved far-left. It won’t go on forever without a fight. At some point there will be a clash of cultures and it could end in violence.

Mr. Obama has flouted the law continually with:
1.NLRB appointments during a recess that wasn’t
2.28 changes to his own ObamaCare law
3.ignored the War Powers Act and went to war in Libya on his own
4.killed US citizens without Congressional approval or any due process
5.spies on US citizens
6.ignores immigration law and state laws
7.ignores federal drug and immigration laws
8.politicizes government agencies so the IRS can attack conservatives and religious groups. The EPA can now prevent people from developing their own land, destroy coal power in the United States, declare the air we exhale a poison. Obama is attempting to use the FCC to control the media. He sent armed guards in a guitar factory on a false charge to raid and seize, and he uses the Interior Department in other ways to terrorize and enforce laws they themselves are creating outside of Congress.
9.illegally wiretapped reporters
10.shielded AG Holder from a Contempt of Congress finding for perjury with an Executive Order
11.continually refuses to comply with congressional subpoenas
12.Mr. Obama is writing legislation from the White House
13.awarded  80 percent of a $16 billion program (green energy) to his campaign bundlers and contributors, leaving only 20% to those who did not contribute
14.and the list goes on.

The Democratic Party, with its nuclear option in the senate, its lies about ObamaCare, its lauding of dictatorial rule using a not-so-innocuous pen and phone, is operating like a radical leftist party with no moderate influences to keep their lawlessness in check. They will eventually bring us to violence and rebellion. Is that why they have government workers in all departments of government armed to the teeth? Is it why they want us disarmed?

Americans are better educated than many believe and, despite high unemployment, most citizens who want to be employed are employed, we have food and water, and we live a decent life. For that reason, we do not see ourselves living under a tyrannical government nor do we see the urgency as they do in a country like Venezuela. I just saw a video of police in Venezuela shooting blindly at everyone in the street. That is where Totalitarianism must eventually lead.

While we are not Venezuela, the increasingly militant left is growing stronger and angrier while the right feels diminished and powerless. The middle class is suffering thanks to the redistributionists and a sense of hopelessness is growing.

The Two Party system has worked in keeping extremists at bay but the leftists hope to destroy that too with voter fraud – refusing to allow voter ID and allowing illegals and underage youths to vote among other illicit practices – and initiatives like the National Popular Vote which seeks to install a permanent Democratic majority in the electoral college. Unions are mobilizing their forces and spending hundreds of millions to buy votes and control politicians. Almost every large union in America today is controlled by communists or socialists.

Unions, large corporations and the financial sector, social institutions such as Planned Parenthood and even some religious organizations, the media, the energy sector, and the educational system are coming together to form a totalitarian whole with a far-left agenda, with no room for traditional thinking or the Constitution.

The other day, NBC said Olympian David Wise’s love of God, wife and child is an alternative lifestyle. The Totalitarians are not only after our money, they want our souls, our very belief system. That is why they are attacking the rights of conscience with the HHS mandate.

We are told Congress can do nothing about this lawlessness and we have to show up at the polls. It is so far beyond just voting.

Obama has been installing his judges, his military, his commissioners, his tax assessors, his educational system, and he is reprogramming us through media, entertainment, teachers, and a suffocating bureaucracy of laws.

Common Core has the potential to nationalize education quickly and with it, as we have discovered, comes intense indoctrination.

He has made welfare, food stamps, and disability into an entitlement and has even encouraged people to not work, smoke week, and pursue their dreams on the government dole. Every agency, every facet of our lives is being politicized. Politicizing something makes it into an agent of totalitarianism. It will take so much more than an election or two to change this.

Totalitarians identify populations to control and use, destroying them in the interim. They have done this with blacks and are attempting to do the same with Native-Americans and Hispanics. The totalitarians have continuously made everything about race instead of the issues and, having done so, they have segregated us. Some among them want a race war. They have done the same with LGBTs, women, and any other group that feels oppressed or unrecognized.

They want our children. The government is assuming more and more power over our rights as parents and they hope to sign a UN treaty which will give them unfettered power, mandating how we educate and raise our own children.

They find a common enemy or invent one and they use the lure of a better life which only they can provide. They hope to destroy private enterprise because they take power from them and they give hope to the populations who seek a better life and who they seek to control.

Totalitarians exaggerate issues like climate change, formerly global warming that stopped 13 years ago, and they create crises to further their agenda. Healthcare was a crisis. It wasn’t then of course but it is now. Libya was a crisis. It wasn’t then, but it is now.

An election won’t fix that. We have to fix that.

Totalitarians seek absolute power. They are the very breadth and scope of tyranny.

We can’t just vote to rid ourselves of the tyranny already entrenched in our government. We must adopt a lifestyle that rejects their indoctrination. We can’t go see the movie Noah which distorts the bible, we can’t buy their products, and we must speak up – loudly – when they rewrite history or denigrate venerated institutions and practices or differing opinions.

We need to find ourselves again. If in our hearts we believe in God or a spiritual life of some sort that rejects lies, late-term abortions, spying on everyone, and so on, then find that person and be that person. If we believe in freedom for everyone, not simply people who agree with us, stand up for it.

We have already been fundamentally transformed but the fat lady has not sung. We must extricate ourselves from our comfortable existence, gather courage, speak up, and fight for what we believe in before it is too late. If we don’t, we will one day be the Ukraine or Venezuela or Egypt and there will be fire in the streets.

You think it can’t happen here? It is happening here.

http://www.independentsentinel.com/elections-cant-fix-the-fundamental-transformation-of-the-united-states/

 
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 23, 2014, 12:03:45 pm
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: rangerrebew on February 23, 2014, 01:56:17 pm
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.

So it would seem.  I think those who reside in cemeteries are the leaders of the "I don't care movement." :whistle:
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Chieftain on February 23, 2014, 02:51:41 pm
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.

I disagree.  Lots of Americans have problems with all of this, but who you gonna call??  The same guy who caused the problem in the first place??

Elections are fundamentally the way to fix all of this.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 23, 2014, 03:25:05 pm
I disagree.  Lots of Americans have problems with all of this, but who you gonna call??  The same guy who caused the problem in the first place??

Elections are fundamentally the way to fix all of this.

If there was response commensurate with problem, there would be riots.  There are none.  There are countries on this planet that people riot over cooking oil or the price of rice.  Americans are fat and complacent which equals no problems.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 23, 2014, 04:03:26 pm
I disagree.  Lots of Americans have problems with all of this, but who you gonna call??  The same guy who caused the problem in the first place??

Elections are fundamentally the way to fix all of this.

Elections are the only way to fix this, politically; the only other alternative is currently on display in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on February 23, 2014, 09:14:30 pm
Quote
Totalitarianism is the stronger force because it’s adherents can use deception and they can circumvent the law. The end justifies the means. There is no law. The law is relative.

This describes the Obama regime in a nutshell.

Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on February 23, 2014, 09:21:22 pm
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.

This regime has been SO lawless on SO many fronts that I think the American people are overwhelmed.  I fear we (the American people) are becoming politically paralyzed because we don't know where to start to stop this monstrosity and turn it around... and few political leaders are leading in this area.   

I'm also afraid we are right where Obama wants us.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: jmyrlefuller on February 23, 2014, 09:32:23 pm
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.
Take a simple look at how the views of homosexuality, for example, have changed in the past decade alone and you will see how quickly this country is being blatantly brainwashed.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: truth_seeker on February 23, 2014, 10:13:59 pm
Elections are the only way to fix this, politically; the only other alternative is currently on display in Ukraine.
Agreed in full.

And for all the hand-wringing on the right, I feel we were closer to breakdown in America during the late 60s-early 70s.

The right has to sharpen its game. Attack Obama's policies and outcomes, not the person.

Keep it short, simple, factual and verifiable. Avoid ridiculous fringy claims, and fringy people.

Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Fishrrman on February 24, 2014, 04:29:12 am
Oceander wrote above:
[[ Elections are the only way to fix this, politically; the only other alternative is currently on display in Ukraine. ]]

It pains to say it, but I don't think elections are going to "get the fixin' done" any more.

Too much of what is wrong has become "institutionalized" into government agencies and bureaucracies that are under little influence from "elections".

And the very integrity of elections in this land is under attack, not only from the party of the left and the left itself, but is being undermined by newfangled procedures that fundamentally corrupt the elective process.

Nope.

What alternatives does that leave us?
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 05:04:01 am
Agreed in full.

And for all the hand-wringing on the right, I feel we were closer to breakdown in America during the late 60s-early 70s.

The right has to sharpen its game. Attack Obama's policies and outcomes, not the person.

Keep it short, simple, factual and verifiable. Avoid ridiculous fringy claims, and fringy people.



I wasn't around for the 60s and wasn't much aware for the first half of the 70s, but from what I've read and gathered over the years, I would tend to agree.  I think the atmosphere, the zeitgeist, was much more apocalyptic back then.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 05:14:50 am
Oceander wrote above:
[[ Elections are the only way to fix this, politically; the only other alternative is currently on display in Ukraine. ]]

It pains to say it, but I don't think elections are going to "get the fixin' done" any more.

Too much of what is wrong has become "institutionalized" into government agencies and bureaucracies that are under little influence from "elections".

And the very integrity of elections in this land is under attack, not only from the party of the left and the left itself, but is being undermined by newfangled procedures that fundamentally corrupt the elective process.

Nope.

What alternatives does that leave us?

One can always vote with one's feet.  There are other countries out there that aren't quite like the US.  E.g., with Australia, notwithstanding the generally prog/lib tendencies in much of the country, there is so much blasted country, and so few people, that one can get a more real independence just by moving inland from the coast a hundred miles or so; don't even have to be in the badlands.

Were I footloose and fancy free, and could rack up enough immigration points, I'd move there in a heartbeat right now; I've got a few friends there who'd help me land on my two feet and get set up, and I'd be right as rain.  Might even see if I could hook up with Greg Craven again and get some sort of con-law comparative studies program going (yes, I'm name-dropping, but dropping his name here isn't likely to get any points, so I can do it shamelessly and openly).  Places-wise, I'm not completely settled on any one place.  I'd avoid Canberra just on general principles.  The weather in VIC and NSW is likely to appeal to me most, although parts of southern WA are nice too.  Brisbane is about as far north as I'd care to go weatherwise (once had a really beautiful gf in Ipswich).  The cities (Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth) have their perks, but I'd just as soon stay far away from 'em and just go in for a visit now and then.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Lipstick on a Hillary on February 24, 2014, 02:17:47 pm
I wasn't around for the 60s and wasn't much aware for the first half of the 70s, but from what I've read and gathered over the years, I would tend to agree.  I think the atmosphere, the zeitgeist, was much more apocalyptic back then.

That was because the clash of cultures was much more pronounced back then-- kind of like the Andy Griffith Show vs. Woodstock.   Moreover, it was easier for this country to come back from the precipice because there were a LOT more people around with common sense who had sacrificed and/or gone to war to preserve and protect our freedom (WWII had only been over 20 years and those veterans were running the country at the time). 
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 02:44:01 pm
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/1972313_10152227057832726_2106634542_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 02:48:05 pm
One can always vote with one's feet.  There are other countries out there that aren't quite like the US.  E.g., with Australia, notwithstanding the generally prog/lib tendencies in much of the country, there is so much blasted country, and so few people, that one can get a more real independence just by moving inland from the coast a hundred miles or so; don't even have to be in the badlands.

Were I footloose and fancy free, and could rack up enough immigration points, I'd move there in a heartbeat right now; I've got a few friends there who'd help me land on my two feet and get set up, and I'd be right as rain.  Might even see if I could hook up with Greg Craven again and get some sort of con-law comparative studies program going (yes, I'm name-dropping, but dropping his name here isn't likely to get any points, so I can do it shamelessly and openly).  Places-wise, I'm not completely settled on any one place.  I'd avoid Canberra just on general principles.  The weather in VIC and NSW is likely to appeal to me most, although parts of southern WA are nice too.  Brisbane is about as far north as I'd care to go weatherwise (once had a really beautiful gf in Ipswich).  The cities (Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth) have their perks, but I'd just as soon stay far away from 'em and just go in for a visit now and then.

Yes they can but if the USA falls to communism no other place will be safe for long!
 
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 24, 2014, 03:03:57 pm
Yes they can but if the USA falls to communism no other place will be safe for long!

Perhaps at one time but that was part of the lie too.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 03:06:07 pm
Perhaps at one time but that was part of the lie too.

Are you willing to risk testing the theory? I'm not!
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 24, 2014, 03:16:06 pm
Are you willing to risk testing the theory? I'm not!

As much of an over-rated film "Metropolis" was, it exposed a truth.  Well two truths.  The first, there is a preterclass of humans who live far above the rest of us.  I mean beyond Trump, Kerry and probably even the Kennedys.  Beyond the Bilderberg attendees.  On the order of the Rothschilds and probably not many other.
The second, that there is freedom.  In truth, there is none.  Freedom is an illusion.  Ronald Reagan was an anomaly.  Not another like him has existed since before the "Civil War".
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 03:31:07 pm
As much of an over-rated film "Metropolis" was, it exposed a truth.  Well two truths.  The first, there is a preterclass of humans who live far above the rest of us.  I mean beyond Trump, Kerry and probably even the Kennedys.  Beyond the Bilderberg attendees.  On the order of the Rothschilds and probably not many other.
The second, that there is freedom.  In truth, there is none.  Freedom is an illusion.  Ronald Reagan was an anomaly.  Not another like him has existed since before the "Civil War".

I will not argue with any of that. In fact, I will tell you that before the ink was dry on the Constitution there were tho9se who sought to undermine and destroy it. Those people and their descendants have gotten far down the road to accomplishing their goals but haven't completely gotten it done yet and fpr as long as there is breath in my body I will do whatever I can to ensure that they never do!
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 24, 2014, 03:52:04 pm
I will not argue with any of that. In fact, I will tell you that before the ink was dry on the Constitution there were tho9se who sought to undermine and destroy it. Those people and their descendants have gotten far down the road to accomplishing their goals but haven't completely gotten it done yet and fpr as long as there is breath in my body I will do whatever I can to ensure that they never do!

There was something I read the other day that really piqued my interest.  Regarding the grandson and nephews of Queen Victoria.  The Kaiser, the Tsar and King George V, all heads of state in the Great War.  The Tsar and the King, friends.  The Kaiser, not.  A family feud played across the world.  The outcome would set the stage for the Russian Revolution, fascism and WWII.  That is too much power in too few hands.
I hadn't thought of it in familial terms until that.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 04:07:27 pm
Yes they can but if the USA falls to communism no other place will be safe for long!
 

Bah.  It won't fall to communism, it'll fall - to adopt your term - to European, specifically French, style socialism.  Communism as such no longer exists as a dominant force anywhere, other than, perhaps, Cuba.  The North Koreans aren't communists, they're Pol-Pot style dictators and tyrants.  The Chinese are communist in name only, having evolved into more or less a hard left corporativist socialism.  And should that fall take place it will, in fact, make other places more safe, not less safe, because part and parcel of that fall will be a reduction in the ability of the US to coerce other nations, economically or militarily, to toe the political line favored by the US (which would at that point be Euro-socialism).
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 04:12:16 pm
Bah.  It won't fall to communism, it'll fall - to adopt your term - to European, specifically French, style socialism.  Communism as such no longer exists as a dominant force anywhere, other than, perhaps, Cuba.  The North Koreans aren't communists, they're Pol-Pot style dictators and tyrants.  The Chinese are communist in name only, having evolved into more or less a hard left corporativist socialism.  And should that fall take place it will, in fact, make other places more safe, not less safe, because part and parcel of that fall will be a reduction in the ability of the US to coerce other nations, economically or militarily, to toe the political line favored by the US (which would at that point be Euro-socialism).

Two words!

Bull Sh*t!
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 04:17:08 pm
As much of an over-rated film "Metropolis" was, it exposed a truth.  Well two truths.  The first, there is a preterclass of humans who live far above the rest of us.  I mean beyond Trump, Kerry and probably even the Kennedys.  Beyond the Bilderberg attendees.  On the order of the Rothschilds and probably not many other.
The second, that there is freedom.  In truth, there is none.  Freedom is an illusion.  Ronald Reagan was an anomaly.  Not another like him has existed since before the "Civil War".

Just because your freedom of action is not totally unrestrained does not render "freedom" illusory.  In an earlier age you, I, and everyone else here would have played serf to those few whom you say live so far above us; serfs had precious little freedom compared to the freedom you enjoy.  In days of yore, serfs were regarded as, and legally were, possessions that went with the land they toiled on, as much a part of that land as the cabinetry is of today's houses.  Today, we ordinary mortals possess land; the land does not possess us.

In fact, you probably enjoy greater freedom than did many minor nobles in the middle ages; consider the amount of power available to you for a few thousand dollars:  you can purchase the means to travel several thousand miles in a few days, from the east coast to the west; you can even purchase the means to fly halfway 'round the world in less than 24 hours - making a mockery of that gent who traveled 'round the world in 80 days.  And consider the quantity and quality of food available to you for a relative pittance; not even the nobility of old ate so well as you.  And consider the state of your health; notwithstanding the current attempt to control your health care, your health, and that of most of us, far surpasses that of even most nobles of old.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 04:17:48 pm
Two words!

Bull Sh*t!

straight back atcha.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, of which you have produced none.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 04:30:18 pm
straight back atcha.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, of which you have produced none.

Anyone who believe that Communism fell with the Soviet Union is drinking WAY too much kool-aid! And the proof is all around you!

In Venezuela, The Philippines, Nicaragua, Cuba, Indonesia, All over Africa, Cambodia, Laos, and the good ole USA!

Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 04:31:32 pm
Anyone who believe that Communism fell with the Soviet Union is drinking WAY too much kool-aid!


Thanks for that lovely personal attack. 
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 04:34:28 pm
Thanks for that lovely personal attack.

Nothing personal about it what-so-ever!
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 24, 2014, 04:34:47 pm
Just because your freedom of action is not totally unrestrained does not render "freedom" illusory.  In an earlier age you, I, and everyone else here would have played serf to those few whom you say live so far above us; serfs had precious little freedom compared to the freedom you enjoy.  In days of yore, serfs were regarded as, and legally were, possessions that went with the land they toiled on, as much a part of that land as the cabinetry is of today's houses.  Today, we ordinary mortals possess land; the land does not possess us.

In fact, you probably enjoy greater freedom than did many minor nobles in the middle ages; consider the amount of power available to you for a few thousand dollars:  you can purchase the means to travel several thousand miles in a few days, from the east coast to the west; you can even purchase the means to fly halfway 'round the world in less than 24 hours - making a mockery of that gent who traveled 'round the world in 80 days.  And consider the quantity and quality of food available to you for a relative pittance; not even the nobility of old ate so well as you.  And consider the state of your health; notwithstanding the current attempt to control your health care, your health, and that of most of us, far surpasses that of even most nobles of old.

Yes, days of yore.  Today, we have lost a lot of freedom.  Can you legally open a bank account with a foreign bank?  Not any more you can't.  Try lighting a cigarette in a "private" business, like a bar.  Unpasteurized milk?  No, not commercially.
10,000 other laws on the books you didn't even realize that make you a felon three times a day.
It's an illusion.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Gazoo on February 24, 2014, 05:09:43 pm
Bah.  It won't fall to communism, it'll fall - to adopt your term - to European, specifically French, style socialism.  Communism as such no longer exists as a dominant force anywhere, other than, perhaps, Cuba.  The North Koreans aren't communists, they're Pol-Pot style dictators and tyrants.  The Chinese are communist in name only, having evolved into more or less a hard left corporativist socialism.  And should that fall take place it will, in fact, make other places more safe, not less safe, because part and parcel of that fall will be a reduction in the ability of the US to coerce other nations, economically or militarily, to toe the political line favored by the US (which would at that point be Euro-socialism).


(http://www.sonsoflibertytees.com/patriotblog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/549556_271366482968393_1561469255_n.jpg)

The New Communism (as linked below) derives from communism. You say the Chinese are communist in name only. Well America has a Caucus (as linked below) that has derived from communism principles.

http://www.marxist.com/fascism-and-democratic-slogans.htm (http://www.marxist.com/fascism-and-democratic-slogans.htm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Communist_Movement#Current_organizations_descended_from_NCM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Communist_Movement#Current_organizations_descended_from_NCM)

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/ (http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/)

http://www.pdamerica.org/about-pda/history (http://www.pdamerica.org/about-pda/history)

(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/43/bf/d7/43bfd785a45602877b6910866c25393a.jpg)

To say America is Euro-Socialists, leaves out the black theologian theology, race-baiting, the new communism party of the new black panthers, as well as the communist progressive portion of the unions/GM-Government Motors and the government.

So Obama is a marxist fascist, euro socialist, new communist party,progressive, radical black theologian, race-baiting, divisive, peter pan, long legged mack daddy. So Bigun is just cutting to the chase and saying, Communist.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 05:24:08 pm
(https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/11189_10200747449824426_1291893034_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: DCPatriot on February 24, 2014, 05:30:22 pm
Wish we had our own 'George Soros'....to fund national video spots or even major motion pictures that illustrate what that cartoon does so perfectly.

I mean if they can make a politically correct "Noah", why can't Clint Eastwood and Mel Gibson corroborate on films that explain exactly WTF if happening to us?
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 06:11:27 pm
There is only one "ism"... totalitarianism, which itself is a name for the more basic concept of all governance, authoritarianism. Every other "ism" is a variance of that one "ism" developed to address the specific time and place where it's being applied.

Whether it's Soviet-style communism, Italian fascism, Euro socialism, Islamic theologism, British imperialism, Medieval monarchism, or Louis XIV mercantilism, it all boils down to the idea that the few (or the one) is best suited to decide for the many. It is a concentration of power.

The basic idea of the American experiment was the decentralization of that power. We have centralized power again, and are in fact back at that place that we broke away from back in 1776.

We are not going to "fall" to communism, but we are going to evolve into some sort of "ism" that is unique to us but still a form of authoritarianism. It can't be communism because we have been conditioned for decades to recoil at the very mention of the word. The idea of communism generates unalterable visions of brutality and oppression in our minds that will, in and of themselves, defeat any possible implementation of such a system. Socialism has very much the same baggage, so that won' work either, and even as we KNOW that Obama is a Socialist, even Socialists recoil from labeling him as such, because of the negative connotations that the terms carries with it. Proponents of authoritarianism can't sell failed systems to nations. They'll just invent a new "ism" for our time and our nation.

I call it Socialist Managerialism, or Managerial Socialism... take your pick.

There's one important thing to keep in mind about all this. The leaders of all these "ism" movements seldom (if ever) actually believe in the ideals they promote.

Here's an excerpt from an old American Thinker article that mentions one of Alexander Solzhenitsyn's less-known works, "Lenin in Zurich" (fiction):

Quote
What is socialism, whether Bolshevik, Menshevik, national, Maoist, social democrat, liberal, or whatever flavor you can name?  A set of economic principles?  Political values?  An attitude?  Don't head off to a dictionary or Google-land for this.

I commend to you Solzhenitsyn's "Lenin In Zurich", a book I read years ago.  It is fiction, yet invaluable to the understanding of the last century, and the next.  I am about to share with you a secret known to few: Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Deng, Pol Pot, Castro, and Solzhenitsyn himself.  And me.  And now you.

Socialism does not exist except in the imagination of the true believer and the useful idiot.  None of the names I listed believed there was such a thing as socialism.  They knew it for what it was:  a means of fooling mass numbers of people into following them, and thus achieving power.  Political power.  Military power.  Economic power.  Absolute power.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/the_secret_of_socialism.html#ixzz2uGRfc6HC
 
We'll get our own, unique "ism".
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: katzenjammer on February 24, 2014, 06:17:41 pm
There is only one "ism"... totalitarianism, which itself is a name for the more basic concept of all governance, authoritarianism. Every other "ism" is a variance of that one "ism" developed to address the specific time and place where it's being applied.

Whether it's Soviet-style communism, Italian fascism, Euro socialism, Islamic theologism, British imperialism, Medieval monarchism, or Louis XIV mercantilism, it all boils down to the idea that the few (or the one) is best suited to decide for the many. It is a concentration of power.

The basic idea of the American experiment was the decentralization of that power. We have centralized power again, and are in fact back at that place that we broke away from back in 1776.

We are not going to "fall" to communism, but we are going to evolve into some sort of "ism" that is unique to us but still a form of authoritarianism. It can't be communism because we have been conditioned for decades to recoil at the very mention of the word. The idea of communism generates unalterable visions of brutality and oppression in our minds that will, in and of themselves, defeat any possible implementation of such a system. Socialism has very much the same baggage, so that won' work either, and even as we KNOW that Obama is a Socialist, even Socialists recoil from labeling him as such, because of the negative connotations that the terms carries with it. Proponents of authoritarianism can't sell failed systems to nations. They'll just invent a new "ism" for our time and our nation.

I call it Socialist Managerialism, or Managerial Socialism... take your pick.

There's one important thing to keep in mind about all this. The leaders of all these "ism" movements seldom (if ever) actually believe in the ideals they promote.

Here's an excerpt from an old American Thinker article that mentions one of Alexander Solzhenitsyn's less-known works, "Lenin in Zurich" (fiction):
 
We'll get our own, unique "ism".

 goopo

Excellent!!  Yes, they are all a flavor of Authoritarianism.  And unfortunately, in this country we have many Authoritarians from 'both' sides of the aisle.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 06:23:43 pm
Quote
We'll get our own, unique "ism".

Already have a long time ago! It's called Mercantilism!
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 06:35:17 pm
Already have a long time ago! It's called Mercantilism!

Mercantilism died in the 18th century.

The central idea of Mercantilism was that "maximising net exports is the best route to national prosperity", along with the accumulation of bullion, or "bullionism", the idea that if one nation had more bullion than the other, it was better off.

We import more than we export, and while we still hold more bullion than any other country, Mercantilism requires that both sides of the equation be observed.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 06:37:03 pm
Mercantilism died in the 18th century.

Yeah! Right! Just like Communism died with the fall of the Soviet Union!

GEEEZE Louis!
 
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 06:46:06 pm
Yeah! Right! Just like Communism died with the fall of the Soviet Union!

GEEEZE Louis!

I just edited my post. You may want to read it again, as well as the article that I quoted:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/08/economic-history
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 06:48:07 pm
Yeah! Right! Just like Communism died with the fall of the Soviet Union!

GEEEZE Louis!

Communism is dead.

Now it is a boogie man to frighten the masses while the new "isms" arise.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Lando Lincoln on February 24, 2014, 06:49:32 pm
If mercantilism depends on positive balances... well, then it may have ended long ago.  I think that's right. (I somehow posted this on another thread.)
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 06:51:26 pm
If mercantilism depends on positive balances... well, then it may have ended long ago.  I think that's right. (I somehow posted this on another thread.)

That's the entire idea behind mercantilism.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Lando Lincoln on February 24, 2014, 06:54:43 pm
That's the entire idea behind mercantilism.

Wow... so I was kinda right?  Small victory!  My head really hurts today (not from self-inflicted wounds, either).
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Scottftlc on February 24, 2014, 06:57:31 pm
As we are swiftly reestablishing in our society an odd form the middle ages relationship of lords to vassals through our bastardized Republic and federal political system...we might end up all the way back at feudalism.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 07:05:07 pm
Wow... so I was kinda right?  Small victory!  My head really hurts today (not from self-inflicted wounds, either).

Mercantilism was the notion that success was achieved via a trade surplus against other nations, and as a result, the accumulation of wealth (bullionism). The publication of Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations" in 1776 toppled that idea by arguing that the growth of productivity (increased production output with decreased input) was the key to a nation's economical stability. Since decreasing input (costs) may includes securing cheaper  materials from abroad, the whole notion that more exports was better than more imports died.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 07:10:18 pm
Communism is dead.

Now it is a boogie man to frighten the masses while the new "isms" arise.

I disagree with you about that! I think the idea that communism is dead is a brilliant propaganda ploy and nothing more but since I agree with what you said about totalitarianism I won't further quibble as to what the current name is.

My interest is in one ism only! Constitutionalism!
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 07:20:16 pm
That's the entire idea behind mercantilism.

Perhaps that is true if you rely only on the technical definition but there are many vestiges of mercantilism still alive and well in this country today and you need look no further than the Obama administration and Solindra to see it!

Do you not believe that corporate welfare is a HUGE problem in this country right now?
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 07:24:39 pm
As we are swiftly reestablishing in our society an odd form the middle ages relationship of lords to vassals through our bastardized Republic and federal political system...we might end up all the way back at feudalism.

There is very little 'Republic" left bastardized or not!   For a long time now we have had only a very big mess, regardless of what one chooses to name it, and only a return to the Constitution will fix it!
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 07:35:11 pm
Perhaps that is true if you rely only on the technical definition but there are many vestiges of mercantilism still alive and well in this country today and you need look no further than the Obama administration and Solindra to see it!

Mercantilism is mercantilism, "vestiges" of mercantilism does not make ours a mercantilistic nation.

That's like saying that just because Rome still stands and we still use Roman numerals, the Roman Empire still exists.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 07:40:02 pm
Mercantilism is mercantilism, "vestiges" of mercantilism does not make ours a mercantilistic nation.

That's like saying that just because Rome still stands and we still use Roman numerals, the Roman Empire still exists.

Whatever! I'm tired of the hair splitting. We agree on the basics. At least I THINK we do.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 08:07:56 pm
There is only one "ism"... totalitarianism, which itself is a name for the more basic concept of all governance, authoritarianism. Every other "ism" is a variance of that one "ism" developed to address the specific time and place where it's being applied.

Whether it's Soviet-style communism, Italian fascism, Euro socialism, Islamic theologism, British imperialism, Medieval monarchism, or Louis XIV mercantilism, it all boils down to the idea that the few (or the one) is best suited to decide for the many. It is a concentration of power.

The basic idea of the American experiment was the decentralization of that power. We have centralized power again, and are in fact back at that place that we broke away from back in 1776.

We are not going to "fall" to communism, but we are going to evolve into some sort of "ism" that is unique to us but still a form of authoritarianism. It can't be communism because we have been conditioned for decades to recoil at the very mention of the word. The idea of communism generates unalterable visions of brutality and oppression in our minds that will, in and of themselves, defeat any possible implementation of such a system. Socialism has very much the same baggage, so that won' work either, and even as we KNOW that Obama is a Socialist, even Socialists recoil from labeling him as such, because of the negative connotations that the terms carries with it. Proponents of authoritarianism can't sell failed systems to nations. They'll just invent a new "ism" for our time and our nation.

I call it Socialist Managerialism, or Managerial Socialism... take your pick.

There's one important thing to keep in mind about all this. The leaders of all these "ism" movements seldom (if ever) actually believe in the ideals they promote.

Here's an excerpt from an old American Thinker article that mentions one of Alexander Solzhenitsyn's less-known works, "Lenin in Zurich" (fiction):
 
We'll get our own, unique "ism".


Communism won't become the US "ism" for the simple reasons that (a) there is no stomache to truly destroy private property and expropriate everything from everyone (not the least because that would require massive armed conflict), and (b) a large segment of the so-called propertied class have in fact learned the lessons from yesteryear and are determined to not get caught flatfooted again; rather than outright opposition to the pro-socialist movement of the federal government, these interests have sidestepped in an effort to retain the essential attributes of their power/wealth - through management of the political process - and are willing to pay substantial "vigorish" to protect themselves.  These interests are, by and large, corporate - Citigroup being a fine example - and extremely wealthy individuals like George Soros.  That this is so is, I believe, evidenced by the growing crony capitalism under Obuttocks and the democrats; e.g., most of the so-called banking reform, like the regulation of "systemically important" banks, is essentially nothing more than protectionism for the big banks against their littler rivals, which is the quid pro quo for allowing the democrats to impose more regulatory burdens on them and to exact more "fines" and etc. from them (that being part of the "vigorish" being paid for protection).  This latter is, in its essential outline, so-called neo-corporatism, and follows the contours of European social corporativism.

This, ultimately, makes the difference between "falling" to communism or to socialism: communism brooks no other rival power bases and has only one class: the proletariat; accordingly, corporativism is anathema to communism; by contrast, corporativism is generally a necessary predicate to any comprehensive socialist government.  This follows because corporativism depends upon the continued existence of a certain significant degree of private property and commerce, so long as the government, in alliance with the large labor and business interests (i.e., the unions and the large corporate businesses, like Citigroup), effectively controls/manages the broader economy and has the ability/power to lavish economic benefits on those it favors and strip all benefits from those it disfavors.  The large labor and business interests are, of course, perfectly happy giving the government that power because that is essentially how they obtain protection from competition by smaller businesses, although few if any of them will ever say so publicly.  Communism sees no need for any detente or compromise with the bourgeoisie - precisely the propertied class from whence the large business owners spring - and sees their continued private control over material resources as nothing more than theft, to be rectified by taking those resources back and giving them to their natural owners, the proletariat.  There being no private business interests to deal with, independent, nongovernmental trade unions become beside the point, at best an inefficient waste of resources and at worst a refuge the bourgeoisie can use to hide from the proletariat and return to attack them at their most vulnerable points.

Ultimately, since corporativism is both the easier route to centralized control of the economy in the West, and since it has already become established in the West, including the US, through existing federal regulation of the economy, some form of socialism, not communism, is the most likely sort of "ism" to which the US will fall prey.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 08:11:05 pm
Mercantilism died in the 18th century.

The central idea of Mercantilism was that "maximising net exports is the best route to national prosperity", along with the accumulation of bullion, or "bullionism", the idea that if one nation had more bullion than the other, it was better off.

We import more than we export, and while we still hold more bullion than any other country, Mercantilism requires that both sides of the equation be observed.


agreed that mercantilism died a long time ago; at a glance, I would posit that the terrible effects of what I'll call the tariff wars and the great depression largely killed off enthusiasm for mercantilism.

That being said, I would also note that mercantilism is very different from corporativism, and that insofar as one wants to use the Obuttocks administration as an example, it is a good illustration of emergent socialist corporativism, not mercantilism.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Scottftlc on February 24, 2014, 08:15:18 pm
What you describe, Oceander, is National Socialism.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 08:18:00 pm

"... communism brooks no other rival power bases and has only one class: the proletariat."


Great response, but I vehemently disagree with that sentence.

Communism may argue that only one class exists, but there are in fact two classes.

The proletariat makes up 99.9% of the population, but the nation is ruled by the remaining 0.01%, made up entirely of members of the government an the government's bureaucratic substructure, 
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 08:19:31 pm
What you describe, Oceander, is National Socialism.

Ultimately, yes, it can lead to that.  However, it doesn't simply reduce to that and, I think, there is a crucial element missing here - nationalism; Obama clearly has no great love for the US as a nation, neither do most of the democrat party heavies (or their large financial supporters), so I don't think that element will gel here.  That being said, the purported differences between national socialism and socialism per se are more fig-leaves and window dressing than they are substantive.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Scottftlc on February 24, 2014, 08:23:31 pm
Ultimately, yes, it can lead to that.  However, it doesn't simply reduce to that and, I think, there is a crucial element missing here - nationalism; Obama clearly has no great love for the US as a nation, neither do most of the democrat party heavies (or their large financial supporters), so I don't think that element will gel here.  That being said, the purported differences between national socialism and socialism per se are more fig-leaves and window dressing than they are substantive.

They had no love for the nation they inherited...they would likely feel very differently about the transmogrified nation they are creating out of it.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 24, 2014, 08:41:11 pm
They had no love for the nation they inherited...they would likely feel very differently about the transmogrified nation they are creating out of it.

Hitler loved not the Germany that existed at the time of his rise to power, but the greater Germany that he would craft from it.

I posted the article I link to below in forums back in 2008, and I was ridiculed. The people ridiculing me could only associate the world "Fuehrer" with Hitler, death camps and ovens... "that could never happen here" they said.

A Fuehrer, a charismatic leader, a leader of a nation and its people (as opposed to the American concept where a President is a servant of the people) can arise anywhere where a cut of personality can exist, and that is everywhere.

In Obama, we have a potential Fuehrer.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/obama.html
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 09:01:13 pm
Hitler loved not the Germany that existed at the time of his rise to power, but the greater Germany that he would craft from it.

I posted the article I link to below in forums back in 2008, and I was ridiculed. The people ridiculing me could only associate the world "Fuehrer" with Hitler, death camps and ovens... "that could never happen here" they said.

A Fuehrer, a charismatic leader, a leader of a nation and its people (as opposed to the American concept where a President is a servant of the people) can arise anywhere where a cut of personality can exist, and that is everywhere.

In Obama, we have a potential Fuehrer.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/obama.html

I agree that a cult of personality can engender a socialism similar to that of national socialism.  What distinguishes these forms of socialism from nonadjectival socialism is the general lack of an Us and a Them based on some inherent characteristic.  The worshipped personality is almost the definition of an inherent characteristic and the belief, or nonbelief, in the infallibility of that personality the defining characteristic that distinguishes Us from Them.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Scottftlc on February 24, 2014, 09:13:36 pm
There is already an Us and Them developing strongly in America...US are those that believe that traditional religiion in this nation (Christian) is the source of all forms of discrimination - sexual, racial and economic.  Them are those that still remain loyal to traditional religious structures.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 09:26:24 pm
There is already an Us and Them developing strongly in America...US are those that believe that traditional religiion in this nation (Christian) is the source of all forms of discrimination - sexual, racial and economic.  Them are those that still remain loyal to traditional religious structures.

that's not the only us/them axis in the US
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: massadvj on February 24, 2014, 09:33:53 pm
that's not the only us/them axis in the US

Very true.  The Democrat playbook depends on several different axes of "us/them," including:

Male/Female
Rich/Poor
White/Minority
Young/Old
Religious/Non-Religious
Taxpayers/Tex Beneficiaries

Any others?
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 09:34:53 pm
Very true.  The Democrat playbook depends on several different axes of "us/them," including:

Male/Female
Rich/Poor
White/Minority
Young/Old
Religious/Non-Religious
Taxpayers/Tex Beneficiaries

Any others?

yeah.  what's a "Tex Beneficiary"?  Someone who gets to live in Texas?  :silly:
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: massadvj on February 24, 2014, 09:46:50 pm
yeah.  what's a "Tex Beneficiary"?  Someone who gets to live in Texas?  :silly:

OK, smartypants.  I'll have you know I consider myself a Tex beneficiary by virtue of the fact that I married a Texan.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Bigun on February 24, 2014, 09:54:21 pm
Very true.  The Democrat playbook depends on several different axes of "us/them," including:

Male/Female
Rich/Poor
White/Minority
Young/Old
Religious/Non-Religious
Taxpayers/Tex Beneficiaries

Any others?

Sure!

White collar/blue collar
Ivy league educated/other private institution educated/state educated/self educated

The list is endless really but you have identified all of the big ones I think.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 24, 2014, 09:55:23 pm
OK, smartypants.  I'll have you know I consider myself a Tex beneficiary by virtue of the fact that I married a Texan.

I know, and I'm truly envious.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 25, 2014, 01:03:51 am
There is already an Us and Them developing strongly in America...US are those that believe that traditional religiion in this nation (Christian) is the source of all forms of discrimination - sexual, racial and economic.  Them are those that still remain loyal to traditional religious structures.

It is.  It's a Christian Businessman's Association.  It's the fish symbol in an ad or sign in a window.  It's also the best way for a grifter to take the last dollar from a simpleton.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Fishrrman on February 25, 2014, 01:25:06 am
Oceander wrote above:
[[ Bah.  It won't fall to communism, it'll fall - to adopt your term - to European, specifically French, style socialism.  Communism as such no longer exists as a dominant force anywhere, other than, perhaps, Cuba. ]]

There is something afoot -- as bad as "communism" or worse -- that you overlook.

That is the emergence of the "techno-police" state -- the ability of the government to surveil (and sooner or later, to control) more and more facets of an individual's life.

From NSA monitoring of our communications, to GPA-assisted controls on our vehicles, to a record of every individual's financial transactions, right down to what store and what was purchased, the "government grip" will slowly encircle freedom, as does a boa constrictor its prey.

Combine this with a regulatory establishment that has transformed itself into an insatiable monster, issuing thousands of new "regulations" that restrict and control how we live, what we can buy, etc.

And add to that a governing elite that has forgotten the concept of "Western Civilization", with an everything goes attitude that seems to have forgotten that a culture is supposed to be protected and defended against outsiders who would usurp it in favor of their own.

And finally, consider the worldwide putsch of islam which makes it quite clear that its goal is to replace the dar al-harb (in The West) with dar al-islam.

I can almost see a "new dark ages" somewhere up ahead.
Luckily I may already be gone when it arrives.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 25, 2014, 01:43:22 am
On a tangent, the obamacare will allow people to do things they've always wanted to do and near a possible 60% unemployment rate but "revolution" by 30%.  Well, people forget, the series of professions, up to the modern day, were outgrowths of leisure time, not the other way round.
When people became effective hunters and gatherers to the point of understanding domesticating livestock and forward.  This leisure time expansion what is next?
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 25, 2014, 03:14:07 am
Oceander wrote above:
[[ Bah.  It won't fall to communism, it'll fall - to adopt your term - to European, specifically French, style socialism.  Communism as such no longer exists as a dominant force anywhere, other than, perhaps, Cuba. ]]

There is something afoot -- as bad as "communism" or worse -- that you overlook.

That is the emergence of the "techno-police" state -- the ability of the government to surveil (and sooner or later, to control) more and more facets of an individual's life.

From NSA monitoring of our communications, to GPA-assisted controls on our vehicles, to a record of every individual's financial transactions, right down to what store and what was purchased, the "government grip" will slowly encircle freedom, as does a boa constrictor its prey.

Combine this with a regulatory establishment that has transformed itself into an insatiable monster, issuing thousands of new "regulations" that restrict and control how we live, what we can buy, etc.

And add to that a governing elite that has forgotten the concept of "Western Civilization", with an everything goes attitude that seems to have forgotten that a culture is supposed to be protected and defended against outsiders who would usurp it in favor of their own.

And finally, consider the worldwide putsch of islam which makes it quite clear that its goal is to replace the dar al-harb (in The West) with dar al-islam.

I can almost see a "new dark ages" somewhere up ahead.
Luckily I may already be gone when it arrives.

On that I completely agree.  I think we're at the precipice of the age of the uber police state, in which the panopticon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon#Criticism_and_the_panopticon_as_metaphor) can for the first time be fully implemented.  Modern technology has the power to faciliate totalitarian control to a degree and a scale that have never been seen before in the entire existence of the human species.


Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: DCPatriot on February 25, 2014, 03:57:29 am
On that I completely agree.  I think we're at the precipice of the age of the uber police state, in which the panopticon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon#Criticism_and_the_panopticon_as_metaphor) can for the first time be fully implemented.  Modern technology has the power to faciliate totalitarian control to a degree and a scale that have never been seen before in the entire existence of the human species.

Yep....all that's missing is flying taxis.       
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 25, 2014, 04:02:17 am
Yep....all that's missing is flying taxis.       

speaking of which, some cabs in NYC are equipped with photo equipment - as are many car service cars - i wonder if the NSA's gotten access to those data sources yet?
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on February 25, 2014, 04:03:00 am
Yep....all that's missing is flying taxis.     

You didn't do a whole lot of partying in the '80s, did you?
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 25, 2014, 04:04:59 am
You didn't do a whole lot of partying in the '80s, did you?

:bigsilly:
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 25, 2014, 02:35:16 pm
On that I completely agree.  I think we're at the precipice of the age of the uber police state, in which the panopticon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon#Criticism_and_the_panopticon_as_metaphor) can for the first time be fully implemented.  Modern technology has the power to faciliate totalitarian control to a degree and a scale that have never been seen before in the entire existence of the human species.

There is always away around it.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: andy58-in-nh on February 25, 2014, 03:44:59 pm
There is always away around it.

In the Age of the Drone and the Ubiquitous Camera, it's becoming increasingly difficult to evade the all-seeing eye of the State. We are also approaching a time when everything not forbidden is compulsory, as the America many of us once knew recedes ever faster in the rear-view mirror.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Oceander on February 25, 2014, 06:36:13 pm
There is always away around it.

true enough, but the costs of successfully getting around it are so high that most people simply won't be able to put up with the dent it puts in their ordinary lives, so they'll simply surrender to it, put on their government-approved rose-colored glasses and tell themselves that it doesn't matter and anyways it doesn't exist.  A little like the restaurant scene in the movie Brazil where the diners all stare at cards showing pictures of what they're supposed to be eating, while what they're actually eating bears little resemblance to those pictures.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 25, 2014, 09:35:03 pm
In the Age of the Drone and the Ubiquitous Camera, it's becoming increasingly difficult to evade the all-seeing eye of the State. We are also approaching a time when everything not forbidden is compulsory, as the America many of us once knew recedes ever faster in the rear-view mirror.

true enough, but the costs of successfully getting around it are so high that most people simply won't be able to put up with the dent it puts in their ordinary lives, so they'll simply surrender to it, put on their government-approved rose-colored glasses and tell themselves that it doesn't matter and anyways it doesn't exist.  A little like the restaurant scene in the movie Brazil where the diners all stare at cards showing pictures of what they're supposed to be eating, while what they're actually eating bears little resemblance to those pictures.

What was the difference between the Soviet state, the East German state and the Nazi state though?  Regimentation was part of the Soviet and German DNA as opposed to the American mentality.  We are still the country of outlaws on some level.  Even with attempts to teach kids to inform, Americans do not snitch.  That is the Achille's heel.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Scottftlc on February 25, 2014, 10:26:31 pm
What was the difference between the Soviet state, the East German state and the Nazi state though?  Regimentation was part of the Soviet and German DNA as opposed to the American mentality.  We are still the country of outlaws on some level.  Even with attempts to teach kids to inform, Americans do not snitch.  That is the Achille's heel.

When you are always on camera, and your devices are always connected to the grid, eyes in the sky and sensors of various kinds in all trafficked areas...there really isn't much need for snitching any more.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: katzenjammer on February 25, 2014, 10:52:24 pm
Just to chime in, albeit a bit late, on the original premise of the thread.

I think that there are a few fundamental factors at play that provide an "answer" to the question of whether or not elections can/will fix this mess:

1.  Free and Open Elections: do we still have them, or not??  (How widespread is election fraud and will it ever be stopped, or at least reduced?)
2.  Candidates running that will actually do something to halt the decline and attempt to restore the Republic.  (Without a significant number of these candidates, there is really nothing that voting can ever accomplish.)
3.  The willingness of people to actually turn out and vote in both primary and general elections, at all levels from local up to national.  I believe that turnout for 2012 was estimated to be somewhere around 57%, lower than both 2004 & 2008.  That's a lot of people that aren't voting, and the percentages are typically lower for the midterms and other "lessor" elections.

Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: olde north church on February 25, 2014, 11:11:09 pm
When you are always on camera, and your devices are always connected to the grid, eyes in the sky and sensors of various kinds in all trafficked areas...there really isn't much need for snitching any more.

But how much is self-requested?  Cell phones, immediately come to mind.  New cars with black boxes and quick pay tolls devices, also.  Living in certain cities as opposed to others or living in the city at all.
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: Scottftlc on February 25, 2014, 11:22:54 pm
But how much is self-requested?  Cell phones, immediately come to mind.  New cars with black boxes and quick pay tolls devices, also.  Living in certain cities as opposed to others or living in the city at all.

Much of it is necessary if you are going to earn a living anywhere on "the grid".  Survivalists could certainly avoid it but those are few and far between and would never be numerous represent a threat to the standing order. 
Title: Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
Post by: DCPatriot on February 25, 2014, 11:32:33 pm
DHS or NSA or GFY announced today that they've decided that they will not eavesdrop on Twitter in real time.


.....uh-huh......