The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: bigheadfred on August 13, 2017, 01:53:02 am
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http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2017/08/12/growing-number-republican-lawmakers-call-trump-condemn-white-nationalists-name/
Rubio joins Senators Cory Gardner, Orrin Hatch, Chuck Grassley, Jeff Flake, and Tim Scott in chiding the president for refusing to specifically call out the white supremacists.
Marco Rubio
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@marcorubio
Very important for the nation to hear @potus describe events in #Charlottesville for what they are, a terror attack by #whitesupremacists
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Here comes the horseshit.
Here comes the spin.
FU RUBIO and all your little buttrangers gardner, grassley, flake, scott...
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Trump will come out with a Strongly worded Tweet in the morning (@5amET) which will put all this $hit to bed.
Thank you Gen. Kelly, again.
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Did they not have the right to march?
The Media, Antifas and BLM-types could have just simply chose to ignore them.....but NOOOOOOOOO....they wanted blood, and they got it.
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Ferguson BLM marches had violence, I'm not real clear on it but I don't recall people saying President Obama should condemn the protests, to the contrary, I believe the administration sent representatives. So, this is a bit bogus. Orrin Hatch? I get that the senator from SC is an African American, Senator Scott; so, on that one, I stand back a bit on.
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Did they not have the right to march?
The Media, Antifas and BLM-types could have just simply chose to ignore them.....but NOOOOOOOOO....they wanted blood, and they got it.
The antifa were allowed to march.
Think about what really happened there.
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The antifa were allowed to march.
Think about what really happened there.
Well who's the genius that though letting the Antifas march with the White Supremacists was a good idea?
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Did they not have the right to march?
The Media, Antifas and BLM-types could have just simply chose to ignore them.....but NOOOOOOOOO....they wanted blood, and they got it.
Did they not have the right to march?
The White Supremacists, Klan, and Neo-Nazi-types could have just simply chose to ignore them.....but NOOOOOOOOO....they wanted blood, and they got it.
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Well who's the genius that though letting the Antifas march with the White Supremacists was a good idea?
Well who's the genius that though letting the White Supremacists march with the Antifas was a good idea?
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Well who's the genius that though letting the White Supremacists march with the Antifas was a good idea?
Antifa are scum indeed but they didn't kill anyone yesterday and those screaming "But Antifa" are looking like real garbage today.
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Antifa are scum indeed but they didn't kill anyone yesterday and those screaming "But Antifa" are looking like real garbage today.
Yes, but if they wouldn't have been there, there probably wouldn't have been any fighting and anybody run over.
The fact is even the white nationalist groups don't go to leftist rallies and cause trouble.
Counter-demonstrations are fine, but obviously the antifa and BLM idiots wanted to start something physical with the WNs who were only too happy to punch back.
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Yes, but if they wouldn't have been there, there probably wouldn't have been any fighting and anybody run over.
The fact is even the white nationalist groups don't go to leftist rallies and cause trouble.
Counter-demonstrations are fine, but obviously the antifa and BLM idiots wanted to start something physical with the WNs who were only too happy to punch back.
There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Any rally must be met with widespread protests and condemnation.
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There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Any rally must be met with widespread protests and condemnation.
But not by the blm or antifa.
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Did they not have the right to march?
The Media, Antifas and BLM-types could have just simply chose to ignore them.....but NOOOOOOOOO....they wanted blood, and they got it.
Expecting the media to ignore a few hundred white nationalists with torches rallying at a major university isn't very realistic.
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Trump will come out with a Strongly worded Tweet in the morning (@5amET) which will put all this $hit to bed.
Thank you Gen. Kelly, again.
just like I said "24/7"
I see the same usual idiots in DC are jumping at the chance to help the Marxists take down America. Grassley should know better but perhaps this is just media spin.
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There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Any rally must be met with widespread protests and condemnation.
Mostly true.
And the same can be said for 99% of the so-called 'civil rights' organizations these days. All peas in one pod.
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There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Any rally must be met with widespread protests and condemnation.
Yes but......
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Well who's the genius that though letting the Antifas march with the White Supremacists was a good idea?
Those who wanted violence, especially at a "White Supremacists March"?
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There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Okay.
Have you posted the same about BLM and Atifa?
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Okay.
Have you posted the same about BLM and Atifa?
Many of us have many times. This country would be better off without the scum on both sides of the riot yesterday.
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Expecting the media to ignore a few hundred white nationalists with torches rallying at a major university isn't very realistic.
And why is that?
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I get that the senator from SC is an African American, Senator Scott; so, on that one, I stand back a bit on.
Why? Do you think that someone gets a pass due to the color of his skin?
That is racist.
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There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Any rally must be met with widespread protests and condemnation.
Or BLM, or La Raza, or any other group that is organized to disparage another race or people.
The fact that you do not condemn them too reveal your bias.
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There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Any rally must be met with widespread protests and condemnation.
Why not just ignore them and let them have their little circle jerk? That would make them look even more silly.
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There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Any rally must be met with widespread protests and condemnation.
As I read reports yesterday no one had a permit to march, the only permit was held by the KKK. Antifa showed up to do one thing, cause trouble. Why should there be a limitation to only White Supremacists, we should have the same attitude to any color supremacist group, White, Black, Brown, whatever period! I detest the Klan and any extremist group but it's completely ridiculous that the only supremacists that are ever roundly condemned, and rightfully are the so called White ones. The klan has a long history but BLM is working double time and then of course there were and are the Black Panthers.
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And when is it identity politics, whether we like it or not, ethnic and probably religious groups often get together and vote for when it is in their interests, you have Latino, Black, Jewish groups, etc. So, then, is it wrong for whites to get together?
There seems a bit of a thin line.
The motives of some of these white groups is what I disagree with. Anti-semitism and other factors.
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Just as Obama could not condem or even utter the words Islamic Radicals, Trump seems to be avoiding naming who these sadistic violent biggots are....instead as in the fashion of Obama lumps them into a "there is viloence on all sides" comment.
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UPDATE: Via Politico Playbook: “A WHITE HOUSE SPOKESPERSON put out the following statement in response to questions about President Trump’s remarks yesterday, per pooler Gabby Morrongiello of the Washington Examiner. ‘The President said very strongly in his statement yesterday that he condemns all forms of violence, bigotry, and hatred. Of course that includes white supremacists, KKK Neo-Nazi and all extremist groups. He called for national unity and bringing all Americans together.'”
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/08/evil-losers-on-parade.php
But the whole article can be considered.
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That's simple enough -- they are Democrats.
Sessions: Federal Investigation of Charlottesville Underway (https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2017/08/12/is-charlottesville-whats-really-going-on-in-the-usa/) | Ian Mason | 13 Aug 2017 | Associated Press
[snip] What eyewitnesses described as rolling fist fights and battles with thrown projectiles broke out almost immediately after the hundreds of "Alt Right" activists and other white nationalist rallygoers made their way to the statue of Robert E. Lee, whose potential removal was the event's primary ostensible concern. [/snip]
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Just as Obama could not condem or even utter the words Islamic Radicals, Trump seems to be avoiding naming who these sadistic violent biggots are....instead as in the fashion of Obama lumps them into a "there is viloence on all sides" comment.
Yes, there was murder on one side, but there WAS violence on all sides here as well.
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Title:
"Growing Number of Republican Lawmakers Call on Trump to Condemn White Nationalists by Name"
Well, maybe I ought to send him my name.
Because...
... I'm "white" (Caucasian, that is, 100% natural blonde with blue eyes)
and...
... I'm an "America/Western culture first" guy, as well. You might even label such sentiments as "nationalist".
So... what do the two of them together make ME..?
If that makes me a "white nationalist"... well... so be it.
And I'll reckon that it makes quite a few OF YOU reading this, exactly the same!
The difference between us is...
... I have the courage to admit it.
Some other thoughts...
... That guy in the car in Charlottesville was probably just frightened as much as anything else, heck, he's only 20. Got attacked and just lost it. In any case, he'll get his hearing in court.
Expect to see more "confrontations" like this in days to come. The Klansmen would probably do well to do a "William Buckley" and purge themselves of the neo-Nazi contingent, they're not good press for their cause.
Finally, regarding the struggle between the hard left and the right (including the "hard right"), who here expects that the left will ever give up their achievements voluntarily and peacefully?
If they won't, what alternatives are left?
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A great deal of blame lies with the Charlottesville Police Department. Violence broke out early and often, yet they made no arrests. Instead, they tear-gassed the ones with the permit and made them go to a venue that could only be reached by walking through the downtown area.
They've been at this a month, yet still are giving tacit permission for the leftists to get violent.
The message the President should give is that no race should ever be put above another, and that we are all Americans who have to learn to live together and be respectful to one another. And then he should announce the launching of an investigation as to how the Charlottesville police and Virginia State Police allowed this to get out of hand in the first place.
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Which are they: White Nationalists or White Supremacists??
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There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Any rally must be met with widespread protests and condemnation.
I can't stand them either. But they've got a right to assemble, march, and speak. As long as they don't promote violence at their rallies, they're allowed to march and speak.....AND NOT BE INTERFERED WITH!!!.
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Which are they: White Nationalists or White Supremacists??
Which are you? :laugh:
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Which are they: White Nationalists or White Supremacists??
I blieve that technically they are "identitarians" which they consider distinct and not spremacy..
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Which are you? :laugh:
If you don't have an answer to my question, say so @bigheadfred ...there's no need to be an ahole.
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I can't stand them either. But they've got a right to assemble, march, and speak. As long as they don't promote violence at their rallies, they're allowed to march and speak.....AND NOT BE INTERFERED WITH!!!.
:amen:
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If you don't have an answer to my question, say so @bigheadfred ...there's no need to be an ahole.
Well, FWIW, count me as a white nationalist. They do.
I think the answer to the question is all of the above.
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Well, FWIW, count me as a white nationalist. They do.
So, you're a white nationalist. Leave me at the hell out of that @bigheadfred ... you're on your own.
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If you don't have an answer to my question, say so @bigheadfred ...there's no need to be an ahole.
I guess personal insults are the order of the day after telling off at least two people for doing the same just a couple days ago.
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So, you're a white nationalist. Leave me at the hell out of that @bigheadfred ... you're on your own.
I said they do. So I am good with that.
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I guess personal insults are the order of the day after telling off at least two people for doing the same just a couple days ago.
What insult?
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What insult?
I've always thought calling someone an ahole to be an insult. Or is that your nickname? :)
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What ever happened to the right to peaceful assembly, no matter who you represent? It when someone of opposing views brings in thugs to provoke people that things get ugly. I don't condone the far Right just as much as I don't condone the left.
This event certainly sounds like a Soros funded setup to provoke the peaceful assemblers.
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I've always thought calling someone an ahole to be an insult. Or is that your nickname? :)
Oh. Not really a nickname. I think of it more as a merit badge. I'm tellin' ya. People inspire me.
Right? @Sanguine.
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Oh. Not really a nickname. I think of it more as a merit badge. I'm tellin' ya. People inspire me.
Right? @Sanguine.
@bigheadfred, I would never call you that!
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@bigheadfred, I would never call you that!
Didn't say you did. Wouldn't care if you did, either. :laugh:
There was a conversation a while back. Perhaps you don't remember it. Maybe just after I first joined. In that conversation I said somethiing to the effect that the limited intelligence of people inspired me to be an ahole. I may have misremembered that conversation, but I thought it was to you I said that. And not that I was referring to you, either.
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Didn't say you did. Wouldn't care if you did, either. :laugh:
There was a conversation a while back. Perhaps you don't remember it. Maybe just after I first joined. In that conversation I said somethiing to the effect that the limited intelligence of people inspired me to be an ahole. I may have misremembeed that conversation, but I thought it was to you I said that.
Yes, I remember something along those lines now. Glad you stayed, BTW.
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Oh. Not really a nickname. I think of it more as a merit badge. I'm tellin' ya. People inspire me.
Right? @Sanguine.
@bigheadfred You are a peach!
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The antifa were allowed to march.
Think about what really happened there.
What happened there? A Nazi ran down folks, repeatedly, with his car. How can that not be condemned in the strongest terms?
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Just as Obama could not condem or even utter the words Islamic Radicals, Trump seems to be avoiding naming who these sadistic violent biggots are....instead as in the fashion of Obama lumps them into a "there is viloence on all sides" comment.
Good point.
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Well at least his daughter has the stones to speak clearly.
(http://i.imgur.com/h0XkDMW.png)
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Just as Obama could not condem or even utter the words Islamic Radicals, Trump seems to be avoiding naming who these sadistic violent biggots are....instead as in the fashion of Obama lumps them into a "there is viloence on all sides" comment.
No fan of Trump, but the media, as usual, is using this incident to blame ALL political violence on far right extremist groups. That's patently a lie, most political violence is coming from people on the left.
Should Trump explcitly condemn WN groups? Sure, but at the same time he should condemn violent leftist groups as well.
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What happened there? A Nazi ran down folks, repeatedly, with his car. How can that not be condemned in the strongest terms?
@Jazzhead
Yeah I remember when you were condemning the Antifa folks when they were throwing bottles, hitting people with bike locks, throwing glass at them, hitting them with baseball bats.
Yeah I remember that so clearly.
oh wait
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Which are they: White Nationalists or White Supremacists??
There were two groups. The white supremacists who think Whites are superior to all other races.
And the White Nationalists who have formed as a response to the black & latino nationalists that have been prominent for quite a while now. The difference being the white nationalists say they just think whites deserve a seat at the table. They say they are tired of white people being demonized.
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@Jazzhead
Yeah I remember when you were condemning the Antifa folks when they were throwing bottles, hitting people with bike locks, throwing glass at them, hitting them with baseball bats.
Yeah I remember that so clearly.
oh wait
Why should I be expected to condemn Antifa violence on a conservative site? Such violence should be condemned to a liberal/progressive audience. And I've done so.
Why can't you bring yourself to condemn Nazi violence, without equivocation or qualification? Two wrongs don't make a right, you know.
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There were two groups. The white supremacists who think Whites are superior to all other races.
And the White Nationalists who have formed as a response to the black & latino nationalists that have been prominent for quite a while now. The difference being the white nationalists say they just think whites deserve a seat at the table. They say they are tired of white people being demonized.
There's no functional difference between white supremacists and white nationalists. To hell with 'em all.
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There's no functional difference between white supremacists and white nationalists. To hell with 'em all.
And I'd add to that group, the multi-culturalism nuts as well. Taking away others' heritage is prejudice too.
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Anyone who has listened to Dennis Prager has heard him talk about whom established our country, our democracy.
Then, compare America's system to those countries the Spanish settled.
There's quite a bit to reflect on.
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Why should I be expected to condemn Antifa violence on a conservative site? Such violence should be condemned to a liberal/progressive audience. And I've done so.
Why can't you bring yourself to condemn Nazi violence, without equivocation or qualification? Two wrongs don't make a right, you know.
@Jazzhead
Oh I've condemned it repeatedly. In fact I'm also one that challenges racist dialog here just as I used to do at TOS.
Your lies grow stale my friend.
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Anyone who has listened to Dennis Prager has heard him talk about whom established our country, our democracy.
Then, compare America's system to those countries the Spanish settled.
There's quite a bit to reflect on.
@TomSea
Whats that mean? That spanish are inferior because central & south america aren't as rich as the US?
That seems to be the inference you are making.
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Why should I be expected to condemn Antifa violence on a conservative site? Such violence should be condemned to a liberal/progressive audience. And I've done so.
Why can't you bring yourself to condemn Nazi violence, without equivocation or qualification? Two wrongs don't make a right, you know.
It's like the asinine comment on another thread regarding Bill Clinton's meeting with Loretta Lynch; that people here, specifically the people critical of Trump, would ignore the story and were too stupid to generate a certain number of comments on it because it wasn't a story critical of Trump.
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It's like the asinine comment on another thread regarding Bill Clinton's meeting with Loretta Lynch; that people here, specifically the people critical of Trump, would ignore the story and were too stupid to generate a certain number of comments on it because it wasn't a story critical of Trump.
@RoosGirl
I'm not surprised to see you agreeing with @Jazzhead
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And I'd add to that group, the multi-culturalism nuts as well. Taking away others' heritage is prejudice too.
I support Nationalism, because a Nation is like a house. You live in your house, establish your rules. Your neighbor lives in his house, where he establishes his rules. I can have my neighbor over as a guest, and I can be his guest. The guest respects the rules of the neighbor's house.
That's Nationalism.
Multiculturalism, is forcing these two neighbors to now live under the same roof and share the same resources. If they have different values, there is bound to be conflict. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, but the natural state of multiculturalism is tension.
By having a "melting pot" we avoided that because we created a unique culture that blended in all of the different cultures into a new one.
But the Left abandoned this in favor of the "Tossed Salad" that forced us to celebrate differences instead of our similarities.
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@RoosGirl
I'm not surprised to see you agreeing with @Jazzhead
Call me crazy, but I even agree with you sometimes.
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I support Nationalism, because a Nation is like a house. You live in your house, establish your rules. Your neighbor lives in his house, where he establishes his rules. I can have my neighbor over as a guest, and I can be his guest. The guest respects the rules of the neighbor's house.
That's Nationalism.
Multiculturalism, is forcing these two neighbors to now live under the same roof and share the same resources. If they have different values, there is bound to be conflict. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, but the natural state of multiculturalism is tension.
By having a "melting pot" we avoided that because we created a unique culture that blended in all of the different cultures into a new one.
But the Left abandoned this in favor of the "Tossed Salad" that forced us to celebrate differences instead of our similarities.
I support Patriotism, but not nationalism. There's a difference there.
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@TomSea
Whats that mean? That spanish are inferior because central & south america aren't as rich as the US?
That seems to be the inference you are making.
If one wishes to believe the Spanish system of government is equal to the ones the British brought, so be it.
In fact, a lot of Latin America is rich with minerals.
All I will say, is I'm sure there are a number of factors.
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I support Patriotism, but not nationalism. There's a difference there.
The ideology of Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose party. New Nationalism/Progressivism
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No fan of Trump, but the media, as usual, is using this incident to blame ALL political violence on far right extremist groups. That's patently a lie, most political violence is coming from people on the left.
Should Trump explcitly condemn WN groups? Sure, but at the same time he should condemn violent leftist groups as well.
When a neo-Nazi murders someone at a white supremacist, Klan, and neo-Nazi event... you condemn the white supremacists, Klan, and neo-Nazis.
When a violent leftest group injures/kills someone... then you condemn violent leftists.
You don't mix and match. That is deflection.
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I support Nationalism, because a Nation is like a house. You live in your house, establish your rules. Your neighbor lives in his house, where he establishes his rules. I can have my neighbor over as a guest, and I can be his guest. The guest respects the rules of the neighbor's house.
That's Nationalism.
Multiculturalism, is forcing these two neighbors to now live under the same roof and share the same resources. If they have different values, there is bound to be conflict. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, but the natural state of multiculturalism is tension.
By having a "melting pot" we avoided that because we created a unique culture that blended in all of the different cultures into a new one.
But the Left abandoned this in favor of the "Tossed Salad" that forced us to celebrate differences instead of our similarities.
Not really. At the beginning, every new group clearly seperate (just like any new item in a melting pot). Over time, the group assimilates so that their children are more Americanized... and their grandchildren even moreso (the new bit in the melting pot finally melts).
What we're seeing over the last 20 years has been the first part.
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Why should I be expected to condemn Antifa violence on a conservative site? Such violence should be condemned to a liberal/progressive audience. And I've done so.
Likewise, why should we be expected to condemn national socialist violence on a Conservative site? Such violence should be condemned to a liberal/progressive audience.
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Not really. At the beginning, every new group clearly seperate (just like any new item in a melting pot). Over time, the group assimilates so that their children are more Americanized... and their grandchildren even moreso (the new bit in the melting pot finally melts).
What we're seeing over the last 20 years has been the first part.
U of Wisconsin Faculty Advised Not to Say ‘America Is a Melting Pot’ Because That’s Racist
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420619/u-wisconsin-faculty-advised-not-say-america-melting-pot-because-thats-racist
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U of Wisconsin Faculty Advised Not to Say ‘America Is a Melting Pot’ Because That’s Racist
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420619/u-wisconsin-faculty-advised-not-say-america-melting-pot-because-thats-racist
The 'melting pot' idea was never acceptable to the left. It was just a little rhetorical device to get the yokels to sit placidly by while their nation was transformed into something more pleasing to the progressives.
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driftdiver wrote:
"And the White Nationalists who have formed as a response to the black & latino nationalists that have been prominent for quite a while now. The difference being the white nationalists say they just think whites deserve a seat at the table. They say they are tired of white people being demonized."
Thanks for being unafraid to say that in clear and objective language.
Whites deserve "a seat at the table" because in America, it was whites who -built- the table -- and wrote the documents -on the table- that, once signed, became the framework for the greatest governance humankind has ever seen.
How many signatures of non-whites appear upon those documents?
More apropos to the topic:
In Charlottesville, how many of the alt-right folks engaged in violence, other than that kid in the car who lost it? (he'll be punished)
In Charlottesville, how many of the antifa folks engaged in violence?
I sense that an unbiased investigation will discover that the violence came from the left, and not from the right.
If that's the case, shouldn't we be praising the demonstrators of the alt-right, for showing restraint and self-discipline?
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driftdiver wrote:
"And the White Nationalists who have formed as a response to the black & latino nationalists that have been prominent for quite a while now. The difference being the white nationalists say they just think whites deserve a seat at the table. They say they are tired of white people being demonized."
Thanks for being unafraid to say that in clear and objective language.
Whites deserve "a seat at the table" because in America, it was whites who -built- the table -- and wrote the documents -on the table- that, once signed, became the framework for the greatest governance humankind has ever seen.
How many signatures of non-whites appear upon those documents?
More apropos to the topic:
In Charlottesville, how many of the alt-right folks engaged in violence, other than that kid in the car who lost it? (he'll be punished)
In Charlottesville, how many of the antifa folks engaged in violence?
I sense that an unbiased investigation will discover that the violence came from the left, and not from the right.
If that's the case, shouldn't we be praising the demonstrators of the alt-right, for showing restraint and self-discipline?
Great, great post. :beer:
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driftdiver wrote:
"And the White Nationalists who have formed as a response to the black & latino nationalists that have been prominent for quite a while now. The difference being the white nationalists say they just think whites deserve a seat at the table. They say they are tired of white people being demonized."
Thanks for being unafraid to say that in clear and objective language.
Whites deserve "a seat at the table" because in America, it was whites who -built- the table -- and wrote the documents -on the table- that, once signed, became the framework for the greatest governance humankind has ever seen.
How many signatures of non-whites appear upon those documents?
More apropos to the topic:
In Charlottesville, how many of the alt-right folks engaged in violence, other than that kid in the car who lost it? (he'll be punished)
In Charlottesville, how many of the antifa folks engaged in violence?
I sense that an unbiased investigation will discover that the violence came from the left, and not from the right.
If that's the case, shouldn't we be praising the demonstrators of the alt-right, for showing restraint and self-discipline?
How far we've come since 1965, whites pleading for a 'seat at the table'.
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Whites have always had a seat at the table. It's sad to see "white nationalists" obsessed with the same divisive identity politics as the left.
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Whites have always had a seat at the table. It's sad to see "white nationalists" obsessed with the same divisive identity politics as the left.
Its sad that "whites" are forced to asked to be considered based on their race, but its not said "whites" that created the spoils system that necessitates it.
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Well who's the genius that though letting the White Supremacists march with the Antifas was a good idea?
And here is another boneheaded idea...calling the fascist march "Unite The Right" which implicates all of us on the Right as being in league with them. At least the way the Liberal media will spin this, and right up to the mid term elections. What should be in the news following the march is the debate over removing symbols of the Confederacy. Instead the marchers themselves steel the headlines away, and the statue topic is no more. Nice job idiots.
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And here is another boneheaded idea...calling the fascist march "Unite The Right" which implicates all of us on the Right as being in league with them. At least the way the Liberal media will spin this, and right up to the mid term elections. What should be in the news following the march is the debate over removing symbols of the Confederacy. Instead the marchers themselves steel the headlines away, and the statue topic is no more. Nice job idiots.
Didn't the Antifas and BLMers show up uninvited?
And, I suspect the people who came up with the name did so exactly for the reason of linking all of the "right" with them.
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And here is another boneheaded idea...calling the fascist march "Unite The Right" which implicates all of us on the Right as being in league with them. At least the way the Liberal media will spin this, and right up to the mid term elections. What should be in the news following the march is the debate over removing symbols of the Confederacy. Instead the marchers themselves steel the headlines away, and the statue topic is no more. Nice job idiots.
I visit alt-right sites as well as alt-left sites to see what the crazies on both extremes are up to. It was obvious that many ARers/WNs really believed Trump was going to declare himself a fellow WN and pass laws to enable AR and WN positions. Not a Trump fan ( I did vote for him to avoid Hillary), but I never thought Trump was any kind of racist. He was willing to accept support from a variety of sources, but even before the election he had made statements denouncing David Duke.
But the naivete of the WNs and their supporters in thinking they could "unite the right" with a campaign of hate against non-whites was doomed from the start. The Republicans would never win another national election if they allied with race-haters. What conservatives demand is that ALL!!! laws favoring different demographics over others be abolished for constitutional reasons and the Rule Of Law be enforced equally. That's it.
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I visit alt-right sites as well as alt-left sites to see what the crazies on both extremes are up to. It was obvious that many ARers/WNs really believed Trump was going to declare himself a fellow WN and pass laws to enable AR and WN positions. Not a Trump fan ( I did vote for him to avoid Hillary), but I never thought Trump was any kind of racist. He was willing to accept support from a variety of sources, but even before the election he had made statements denouncing David Duke.
But the naivete of the WNs and their supporters in thinking they could "unite the right" with a campaign of hate against non-whites was doomed from the start. The Republicans would never win another national election if they allied with race-haters. What conservatives demand is that ALL!!! laws favoring different demographics over others be abolished for constitutional reasons and the Rule Of Law be enforced equally. That's it.
They do think this. A scary number wanted Trump to start "cleansing".
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And I'd add to that group, the multi-culturalism nuts as well. Taking away others' heritage is prejudice too.
And add BLM nut jobs too. They pretend that one race matters over others.
Besides, why does make a point to tear down memorials to our past history? If they think something is missing, erect their memorial, not tear down others. IF slavery is a point, then erect a memorial to the slaves. Infuriating others does not make peace.
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Whites have always had a seat at the table.
What table?
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Did they not have the right to march?
The White Supremacists, Klan, and Neo-Nazi-types could have just simply chose to ignore them.....but NOOOOOOOOO....they wanted blood, and they got it.
They didn't have the right to force the people out of the park who had a permit to hold their event. I have a right to swing my arm. When I hit someone, that right ends.
They (Antifa/BLM) didn't have a permit. They invaded the space the other group had a permit to use.
I'd say that's wrong.
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There is no justification for Nazis, the Klan, or White Supremacists.
Period.
Any rally must be met with widespread protests and condemnation.
Justify BLM, based on what? Trayvon Martin and the thug in Missouri? On media lies and distortions? People acting like brownshirts on the basis of their proclaiming they are ANTI-Fascist?
There is no excuse for any of them, but it is obvious who the MSM favors.
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I can't stand them either. But they've got a right to assemble, march, and speak. As long as they don't promote violence at their rallies, they're allowed to march and speak.....AND NOT BE INTERFERED WITH!!!.
This, very simply, is the fact all should be looking at.
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This, very simply, is the fact all should be looking at.
Pretty much what I said on another thread.
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What happened there? A Nazi ran down folks, repeatedly, with his car. How can that not be condemned in the strongest terms?
Sure, I condemn running down people in the streets.
I must note, If they hadn't been out there violently protesting a lawful assembly, they would have been perfectly safe, though.
From the video I saw, though, he ran into the crowd and backed out. I'm not sure that qualifies for the optic of "repeatedly", which would usually entail going forward and backing up multiple times. There is enough inflammatory rhetoric in the world without resorting to that here.
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When a neo-Nazi murders someone at a white supremacist, Klan, and neo-Nazi event... you condemn the white supremacists, Klan, and neo-Nazis.
When a violent leftest group injures/kills someone... then you condemn violent leftists.
You don't mix and match. That is deflection.
He could simply condemn any violence which is intended to silence the opinions of others, no matter where it comes from. That takes in the whole shooting match.
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What table?
He's been visiting that Rich Whiteman again. They have furniture over there. (Didn't have to burn it to keep warm last winter).
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...
Besides, why does make a point to tear down memorials to our past history? If they think something is missing, erect their memorial, not tear down others. IF slavery is a point, then erect a memorial to the slaves. Infuriating others does not make peace.
Most sane post on the thread. Thank you!
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He could simply condemn any violence which is intended to silence the opinions of others, no matter where it comes from. That takes in the whole shooting match.
Wheres the political benefit in that?
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Wheres the political benefit in that?
Neutrality. Look at the Swiss, devastated by war...oh wait.
It is a viable blanket condemnation of misbehaviour that is aimed at the appropriate groups without naming names, and without the need to.
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Justify BLM, based on what? Trayvon Martin and the thug in Missouri? On media lies and distortions? People acting like brownshirts on the basis of their proclaiming they are ANTI-Fascist?
There is no excuse for any of them, but it is obvious who the MSM favors.
While I agree with your assertion that BLM and Antifa are counterproductive, they don't have the body count of millions (Nazis) and thousands (KKK) of people murdered under their respective banners.
The historical record matters. Those individuals in Charlottesville chose to represent those heinous organizations because they embrace the blood-stained history of said groups.
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Neutrality. Look at the Swiss, devastated by war...oh wait.
It is a viable blanket condemnation of misbehaviour that is aimed at the appropriate groups without naming names, and without the need to.
Of course I totally agree.
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While I agree with your assertion that BLM and Antifa are counterproductive, they don't have the body count of millions (Nazis) and thousands (KKK) of people murdered under their respective banners.
The historical record matters. Those individuals in Charlottesville chose to represent those heinous organizations because they embrace the blood-stained history of said groups.
If you are going for historical record include the body count of the groups Antifa and BLM represent.
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While I agree with your assertion that BLM and Antifa are counterproductive, they don't have the body count of millions (Nazis) and thousands (KKK) of people murdered under their respective banners.
The historical record matters. Those individuals in Charlottesville chose to represent those heinous organizations because they embrace the blood-stained history of said groups.
As far as blood stained history goes, international socialism of the kind undergirding authoritarian groups like BLM and Antifa blows every other murderous ideology away in terms of body count.
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Who and what am I? Who and what are you? Those are the questions that plagued the Russian romantics, and to which they produced answers that mean nothing in themselves, but which dictated the fate of those to whom they were applied: . . . bourgeoisie and proletariat; capitalist and socialist; exploiter and producer: and all with the simple and glorious meaning of them and us
Revolution: how had it come to that? . . . There was a primary sense, begun by no more than a reading of the morning papers and developed through the new perspectives and new analyses available to the Movement now, that the evils in America were the evils of America, inextricably a part of the total system. . . . Clearly something drastic would be necessary to eradicate those evils and alter that system.
The natural and necessary institutions — chief among them civil society and the law — that make it possible for people to live together peacefully and prosperously require a degree of freedom. Inevitably, grifters will swindle and demagogues will charm. But those determined to subvert these institutions fail to see, or refuse to see, that the most likely alternative to the principle of equality under law is a form of “domination and oppression” worse than anything they currently oppose.
The remedy to outbursts of political turmoil is not to wantonly tear down what fragile order exists, or to impose some new, ill-conceived order by force. Power, at least in the long run, does not grow out of the barrel of a gun; Mao was wrong. Legitimate and stable political power is rooted in the healthful loyalties that temper destructive political passions. Rightly ordered affections — toward God, country, and one another — promote the civic friendship in which citizens work side by side to promote one another’s best interests, and by which inevitable disputes can be resolved with a minimum of conflict. When Lincoln urged that “we are not enemies, but friends,” he was stating a necessary condition of the American republic.
The Antifa ideology can produce only enemies.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/448275/antifa-protest-donald-trump-roots-left-wing-political-violence
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As far as blood stained history goes, international socialism of the kind undergirding authoritarian groups like BLM and Antifa blows every other murderous ideology away in terms of body count.
Americans find "KKK" and "Nazi" easily identifiable and know how these groups have personally affected our nation.
I am dubious that many Americans will draw some parallel or make a connection between BLM/Antifa and some movement rooted in Europe or Africa. And, as stated previously, the media certainly won't guide them in such a direction.
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Americans find "KKK" and "Nazi" easily identifiable and know how these groups have personally affected our nation.
I am dubious that many Americans will draw some parallel or make a connection between BLM/Antifa and some movement rooted in Europe or Africa. And, as stated previously, the media certainly won't guide them in such a direction.
Perhaps, but most of the people here are not those Americans.
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Americans find "KKK" and "Nazi" easily identifiable and know how these groups have personally affected our nation.
I am dubious that many Americans will draw some parallel or make a connection between BLM/Antifa and some movement rooted in Europe or Africa. And, as stated previously, the media certainly won't guide them in such a direction.
True that the media won't guide them. But you can. I can. We all can. Know why? Because we are all Ameri cans.
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While I agree with your assertion that BLM and Antifa are counterproductive, they don't have the body count of millions (Nazis) and thousands (KKK) of people murdered under their respective banners.
The historical record matters. Those individuals in Charlottesville chose to represent those heinous organizations because they embrace the blood-stained history of said groups.
The individuals were there to protest the destruction of monuments to Confederate generals and troops (essentially, war memorials).
Either Rights are Rights for everyone or they are not Rights at all, they are privileges exercised at the whim of those in power.
Most of the perpetrators of crimes you describe are long dead. Should we wait until the Antifa (Communists, really, with an impressive body count as a group if you aren't picky about the name they use this month) or BLM rack up the tombstones or build ovens and send people to camp to do anything about them?
Otherwise, the KKK and the Neonazis just need a different name and a new flag, right?
Or do we learn from history and nip this sh*t in the bud all around and demand that such protests, lawfully conducted, go unmolested?
That way, other groups retain the right to protest, too. Otherwise, the ladies garden club won't even be able to protest flower bed regulations, and we all lose a fundamental Right.
We have a Constitution which respects the Right to peaceably assemble and the Right to free speech. Encumbered as it was with permit requirements, one group got the required permit to assemble in peaceful protest and was attacked, forced from that venue and attacked some more. That is the essence of the issue, and regardless of the name or ideology of the groups involved, one was in the right and one was in the wrong--whether or not we agree with what they have to say, it is their Right to say it. We can find their viewpoint despicable, but to deprive them of their Right to hold that belief, to express it, to assemble peacefully to do so places all of our Liberty in far greater peril than to endure and ignore and even refute in open forum (without infringing on their Right) their message or their core beliefs. Regardless of the core beliefs of the Klan or White Supremacist groups, I do agree that the war memorials should stand and do not see where the beliefs of those groups should be used to oppose the preservation of out nation's history.
If others want other memorials, they can put them up, too.
The actions of one individual with an automobile were definitely wrong, without argument.
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We have a Constitution which respects the Right to peaceably assemble and the Right to free speech. Encumbered as it was with permit requirements, one group got the required permit to assemble in peaceful protest and was attacked, forced from that venue and attacked some more. That is the essence of the issue, and regardless of the name or ideology of the groups involved, one was in the right and one was in the wrong--whether or not we agree with what they have to say, it is their Right to say it. We can find their viewpoint despicable, but to deprive them of their Right to hold that belief, to express it, to assemble peacefully to do so places all of our Liberty in far greater peril than to endure and ignore and even refute in open forum (without infringing on their Right) their message or their core beliefs. Regardless of the core beliefs of the Klan or White Supremacist groups, I do agree that the war memorials should stand and do not see where the beliefs of those groups should be used to oppose the preservation of out nation's history.
If others want other memorials, they can put them up, too.
Well stated.
But irrelevant and no longer valid in this brave new Amerika we exist in that we pretend affords and preserves liberty for all.
Some animals are more equal than others.
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Regardless of the core beliefs of the Klan or White Supremacist groups, I do agree that the war memorials should stand and do not see where the beliefs of those groups should be used to oppose the preservation of out nation's history.
If others want other memorials, they can put them up, too.
I do too, especially the memorials honoring common soldiers. But the world changed this week, and we all have to be careful of the company we keep. The cause of preserving the memory of the Confederate dead may have been a noble one, but an alliance with Nazis and white supremacists has made the cause toxic. Just as Dylan Roof's murderous rampage led to the consignment of the stars and bars to the dustbin, so will the actions of one idiot self-styled Nazi in a car accelerate the removal of those statues to Southern memory.
The right cannot be associated with the alt-right. It is a cancer that will infect the body and take it down. The same can be said of the alt-left and the "legitimate" left; whether they realize it now or later is beside the point. The point now is to save the good name of conservatism, and that will require the firm rejection of racism and extremism. Will it require the rejection of Trump himself? That is the $64,000 question, and one that I believe will be answered sooner rather than later.
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I do too, especially the memorials honoring common soldiers. But the world changed this week, and we all have to be careful of the company we keep. The cause of preserving the memory of the Confederate dead may have been a noble one, but an alliance with Nazis and white supremacists has made the cause toxic. Just as Dylan Roof's murderous rampage led to the consignment of the stars and bars to the dustbin, so will the actions of one idiot self-styled Nazi in a car accelerate the removal of those statues to Southern memory.
Straight out of the Alinsky playbook.....we got played
Alinsky biographer, Sanford D. Horwitt provides an anecdote using precisely this same diabolical tactic to deceive the people. From Horwitt's Let Them Call Me Rebel:
"...in the spring of 1972, at Tulane University...students asked Alinsky to help plan a protest of a scheduled speech by George H. W. Bush, then U.S. representative to the United Nations - a speech likely to include a defense of the Nixon administration's Vietnam War policies. The students told Alinsky they were thinking about picketing or disrupting Bush's address. That's the wrong approach, he rejoined, not very creative - and besides causing a disruption might get them thrown out of school. He told them, instead, to go to hear the speech dressed as members of the Ku Klux Klan, and whenever Bush said something in defense of the Vietnam War, they should cheer and wave placards reading, ‘The KKK supports Bush.' And that is what they did, with very successful, attention-getting results."
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I do too, especially the memorials honoring common soldiers. But the world changed this week, and we all have to be careful of the company we keep. The cause of preserving the memory of the Confederate dead may have been a noble one, but an alliance with Nazis and white supremacists has made the cause toxic. Just as Dylan Roof's murderous rampage led to the consignment of the stars and bars to the dustbin, so will the actions of one idiot in a car will accelerate the removal of those statues to Southern memory.
The statues are not the cause so blaming them is just a senseless gesture by the Left. Instead, we end up looking like the Taliban, destroying monuments and art because we don't like the message. We will be burning books soon.
The right cannot be associated with the alt-right. It is a cancer that will infect the body and take it down. The same can be said of the alt-left and the "legitimate" left; whether they realize it now is beside the point. The point now is to save the good name of conservatism, and that will require the firm rejection of racism and extremism. Will it require rejection of Trump himself? That is the $64,000 question, and one that I believe will be answered sooner rather than later.
We don't get to decide how we are depicted. The left-wing media will perform that task and we get no say in the matter.
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The statues are not the cause so blaming them is just a senseless gesture by the Left. Instead, we end up looking like the Taliban, destroying monuments and art because we don't like the message. We will be burning books soon.
No, but the statues will be sacrificed because a bunch of alt-right creeps used them as an excuse to march to "Unite the Right". It is well past time to reject these fools - THAT's how you unite the right.
We don't get to decide how we are depicted. The left-wing media will perform that task and we get no say in the matter.
Oh, don't be so passive. Our fate, our reputations, is in our hands. REJECT the alt-right, without equivocation. Yes, there are fascists on both sides - our job is to reject the fascists that infect ours.
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The statues will be sacrificed because we ALLOW the alt-right to use them. They existed for decades without any problem. Then the media and the Democrats decide to go after them. 350 "alt-right" people show up and conservatives start flinging in the towel when there were thousands of violent alt-left people there. First, it was buildings, then statues, then parks, then artwork, then books. We will start holding book burnings and the passive conservatives will be saying "Well, I don't want to be associated with the boogeyman than the media has created by opposing it". Where have we seen this before?
You are letting the media create the strawman that is going to take away your speech rights. There is a guy somewhere whose life is a living Hell because someone said he was at the rally and he wasn't even there. The Antifa guessed his identity incorrectly and it went viral. Why do we have to go through this? Why will stand against the alt-left? The alt-right crowd is not the problem. They are a small fringe group. The alt-left group has massive numbers and they have been rioting for over a year now.
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No, but the statues will be sacrificed because a bunch of alt-right creeps used them as an excuse to march to "Unite the Right". It is well past time to reject these fools - THAT's how you unite the right.
Oh, don't be so passive. Our fate, our reputations, is in our hands. REJECT the alt-right, without equivocation. Yes, there are fascists on both sides - our job is to reject the fascists that infect ours.
@Jazzhead
Reject the nazis? Everyone has already rejected the nazis. Its stupid to expect another "rejection" is any more meaningful then the other hundred which have previously been uttered.
The left seeks to define the narrative. YOU have already surrender your fate to them by playing their game. There is nothing conservatives can do that will ever be enough to placate the left.
BTW, the Nazis are socialists which is LEFT.
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No, but the statues will be sacrificed because a bunch of alt-right creeps used them as an excuse to march to "Unite the Right". It is well past time to reject these fools - THAT's how you unite the right.
Oh, don't be so passive. Our fate, our reputations, is in our hands. REJECT the alt-right, without equivocation. Yes, there are fascists on both sides - our job is to reject the fascists that infect ours.
Careful study of "The enemy of my enemy" reveals plenty of results on this board.
The numbers of dead will speak for themselves.
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@Jazzhead
Reject the nazis?
No, I said reject the alt-right - the white nationalists. They've already done too much damage.
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No, I said reject the alt-right - the white nationalists. They've already done too much damage.
Whether you like it or not EVERYONE has a right to peacefully assemble in this country and no one has the right to wantonly disrupt that meeting!
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Note: That statues were coming down before we even knew of the existence of people like Vanguard. They were reacting to the statues coming down. They were coming down because the media wants to show that they can get them torn down. It's part of their desire to be "Kingmaker".
You'll notice the media is complaining that Trump did not speak the words they wanted him to speak. It was a setup. He condemned the violence and then they attacked. If you excuse or justify violence, you become part of the violence. No one is trying to justify or excuse the Nazis. But there are hordes of people excusing the violence by the alt-left. We have seen this before.
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Whether you like it or not EVERYONE has a right to peacefully assemble in this country and no one has the right to wantonly disrupt that meeting!
That is true in theory but not in practice and you certainly don't get to pick any place you want. I was in a fraternity. We got turned down frequently for outdoor and indoor events. The police can and do wantonly disrupt your meeting at any time. You can't even assemble without a permit.
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Whether you like it or not EVERYONE has a right to peacefully assemble in this country and no one has the right to wantonly disrupt that meeting!
And no one has the right to run down demonstrators with a car. Will the alt-left kill some day? No doubt. But this weekend, it was the alt-right that killed.
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And no one has the right to run down demonstrators with a car. Will the alt-left kill some day? No doubt. But this weekend, it was the alt-right that killed.
The alt-left already has killed. The baseball game thing. Have we all forgotten about that?
And the Dallas shootings.
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Will the alt-left kill some day?
You have got to be kidding the alt left has done far more killing that the alt right.
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And no one has the right to run down demonstrators with a car. Will the alt-left kill some day? No doubt. But this weekend, it was the alt-right that killed.
@Jazzhead
You equate the alt-right with the nazi's as does most of those on the left. The guy who drive the car wasn't alt-right, he was a nazi
Peaceful assembly does not involve murder or riots. Many people have died as a result of your leftist riots over the last few years, they just haven't been run down by cars yet.
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You'll remember that Trump already condemned the Neo-Nazis. The fact people are calling on him to do what he already did, shows they have another purpose in mind.
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No, I said reject the alt-right - the white nationalists. They've already done too much damage.
@Jazzhead
The white nationalists haven't done any damage. They have an unpopular message and have connected themselves with openly racists groups. What damage have they done?
The antifa have done damage
The nazi's have done damage
The white separatists have done damage
The black separatists have done damage
The BLM have done significant damage
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You have got to be kidding the alt left has done far more killing that the alt right.
@jpsb
Hell the left has claimed they have the right to shoot cops and white people.
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@Jazzhead
The white nationalists haven't done any damage. They have an unpopular message and have connected themselves with openly racists groups. What damage have they done?
You really are stupid aren't you? Have you been watching the news?
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Straight out of the Alinsky playbook.....we got played
@dfwgator
You got that right. And with these new details coming out, it is clear that Gov. McAuliffe had a crucial role in orchestrating the whole thing.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/an-exclusive-look-at-how-virginia-police-emptied-emancipation-park/ (http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/an-exclusive-look-at-how-virginia-police-emptied-emancipation-park/)
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That is true in theory but not in practice and you certainly don't get to pick any place you want. I was in a fraternity. We got turned down frequently for outdoor and indoor events. The police can and do wantonly disrupt your meeting at any time. You can't even assemble without a permit.
True. The Right to Freedom of Speech is NOT the Right to have an audience.
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The statues are not the cause so blaming them is just a senseless gesture by the Left. Instead, we end up looking like the Taliban, destroying monuments and art because we don't like the message. We will be burning books soon.
We don't get to decide how we are depicted. The left-wing media will perform that task and we get no say in the matter.
And those goal-posts keep getting moved. Meanwhile to the MSM, the Antifas are "The White Rose."
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No, but the statues will be sacrificed because a bunch of alt-right creeps used them as an excuse to march to "Unite the Right". It is well past time to reject these fools - THAT's how you unite the right.
Oh, don't be so passive. Our fate, our reputations, is in our hands. REJECT the alt-right, without equivocation. Yes, there are fascists on both sides - our job is to reject the fascists that infect ours.
No, the statues will be sacrificed because they have been made the victim of the fables taught about the War of Northern Aggression, which have converted the visages of men who suffered and often lost all fighting for their country against the invading Northern Armies into symbols of racism and hatred.
Suppose only a few Sons of the Confederacy and Daughters of Confederate Veterans had showed up. Do you really think that the actions of Antifa/BLM would have been any less egregious?
If the Media hadn't had those alt-right idiots showing up, they would have had to hire some or use stock footage from elsewhere just to prove the people protesting the removal of the statue were "racists".
You can't convince me that everyone in the crowd there to protest the removal of the statues was affiliated with the alt-right groups which got the news images and video time, either. I firmly believe there was some media distortion going on, whatever the motive for those optics may be--but something which I suspect they were going to try to tie to the President in their ongoing war against the duly elected POTUS.
One demented assh*le running down people in the streets doesn't help either.
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And no one has the right to run down demonstrators with a car. Will the alt-left kill some day? No doubt. But this weekend, it was the alt-right that killed.
There are laws against running people down in the streets. It was one demented SOB who ran a car into a crowd.
As for the alt-left, are you trying to claim that Baltimore or Fergusson or Dallas were bloodless? The alt-left has already killed.
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No, but the statues will be sacrificed because a bunch of alt-right creeps used them as an excuse to march to "Unite the Right". It is well past time to reject these fools - THAT's how you unite the right.
Oh, don't be so passive. Our fate, our reputations, is in our hands. REJECT the alt-right, without equivocation. Yes, there are fascists on both sides - our job is to reject the fascists that infect ours.
And to put pressure on the Media and Left to reject theirs', and to call them out when they show an obvious double-standard.
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As for the alt-left, are you trying to claim that Baltimore or Fergusson or Dallas were bloodless? The alt-left has already killed.
How in your right mind are you seeing my words as somehow defending the alt-left? How much courage does it take to attack the alt-left on a conservative board?
What we need now is the same courage that Buckley had in the sixties - to firmly and unequivocally REJECT the haters and bigots and fascists who claim to be on "our side" and are ruining our brand and sullying our reputations and ideals.
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And to put pressure on the Media and Left to reject theirs', and to call them out when they show an obvious double-standard.
What double standard? Are you suggesting that Nazis and those who oppose them occupy the same moral plane?
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What double standard? Are you suggesting that Nazis and those who oppose them occupy the same moral plane?
@Jazzhead
Yes the recipe for success is to let the left write the gameplan for conservatives. Yep
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What double standard? Are you suggesting that Nazis and those who oppose them occupy the same moral plane?
There are a few groups. Antifas are just as bad as the Nazis. Absolutely.
There are other groups that just protest the Nazis. They're not as bad.
This is why Twitter is a terrible platform. It's impossible to fit a coherent argument into a hundred and some odd characters.
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What double standard? Are you suggesting that Nazis and those who oppose them occupy the same moral plane?
Are you suggesting Antifa opposes only bona fide Nazis?
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Statement from Presidents George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush regarding the tragic events last weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia:
"America must always reject racial bigotry, anti-Semitism, and hatred in all forms. As we pray for Charlottesville, we are reminded of the fundamental truths recorded by that city’s most prominent citizen in the Declaration of Independence: we are all created equal and endowed by our Creator with unalienable rights. We know these truths to be everlasting because we have seen the decency and greatness of our country."
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Are you suggesting Antifa opposes only bona fide Nazis?
Nah, they only suck down the MSM narrative hook, line, and sinker.
So you need to spend your own time discerning who is the Nazi, who is the Antifa, and who is the genuine, history respecting conservative.
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Are you suggesting Antifa opposes only bona fide Nazis?
I don't think Soros-funded Antifa opposes Nazis (rather, national socialism) at all. They're virulently anti-capitalism, though.
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I don't think Soros-funded Antifa opposes Nazis (rather, national socialism) at all. They're virulently anti-capitalism, though.
To an Antifa, a "Fascist" is anyone who disagrees with them.
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I don't think Soros-funded Antifa opposes Nazis (rather, national socialism) at all. They're virulently anti-capitalism, though.
Sorry, you're not sucking the provided line of nazi vs innocent bystander.
You need re-education in the never-trumper camp of nevertrumperism, trump can do no right, and consequently, conservatism is always wrong if trump happens to fall in to it.
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As for the alt-left, are you trying to claim that Baltimore or Fergusson or Dallas were bloodless? The alt-left has already killed.
But . . . but . . . but that's different.
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Sorry, you're not sucking the provided line of nazi vs innocent bystander.
You need re-education in the never-trumper camp of nevertrumperism, trump can do no right, and consequently, conservatism is always wrong if trump happens to fall in to it.
Trump has nothing to do with my comment.
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I don't think Soros-funded Antifa opposes Nazis (rather, national socialism) at all. They're virulently anti-capitalism, though.
And, rabidly anti-American.
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How in your right mind are you seeing my words as somehow defending the alt-left? How much courage does it take to attack the alt-left on a conservative board?
What we need now is the same courage that Buckley had in the sixties - to firmly and unequivocally REJECT the haters and bigots and fascists who claim to be on "our side" and are ruining our brand and sullying our reputations and ideals.
Buckley bucked Paranoid Anti-Communists from what I've read. Again, I don't think he should be used to promote a narrative that may not exist so one, may in turn, act self-righteous.
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The Democrats are running with this narrative because the Russian investigations are a bust and as one of the posted articles read, the Democrats accusing others of bigotry and racism is familiar territory to them.
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There are laws against running people down in the streets. It was one demented SOB who ran a car into a crowd.
Exactly. The Left throws a hissy-fit whenever we blame Islam when some Lone-Wolf Muslim attacks somebody. But they are real anxious to pin this on all White Nationalists.
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The Democrats are running with this narrative because the Russian investigations are a bust and as one of the posted articles read, the Democrats accusing others of bigotry and racism is familiar territory to them.
It's the new "shiny object."
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What double standard? Are you suggesting that Nazis and those who oppose them occupy the same moral plane?
Communists opposed the Nazis in the thirties. They were both evil. And yes, they occupied the same moral plane.
The antifa and BLM thugs are just as evil as the Nazis and are doing far more damage to the country.
Which side do YOU!!! think is the biggest danger to the country.....a few hundred Nazi idiots or the many thousands of leftist thugs now infesting college campi and other areas? .
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Statement from Presidents George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush regarding the tragic events last weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia:
"America must always reject racial bigotry, anti-Semitism, and hatred in all forms. As we pray for Charlottesville, we are reminded of the fundamental truths recorded by that city’s most prominent citizen in the Declaration of Independence: we are all created equal and endowed by our Creator with unalienable rights. We know these truths to be everlasting because we have seen the decency and greatness of our country."
And the Left will still call W, "Chimpy McBushitler".
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Buckley bucked Paranoid Anti-Communists from what I've read. Again, I don't think he should be used to promote a narrative that may not exist so one, may in turn, act self-righteous.
I knew some people who were Birchers. They were certainly not on the level of Nazis. I'm sure a number of them were anti-Semitic, but they had jobs, were Christians, and believed in the the constitution.
They just had some really wacky ideas concerning who they thought were communists. Ike was not a commie.
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conservatism is always wrong if trump happens to fall in to it.
Please let me know if Trump ever happens to fall into Conservatism.
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Communist opposed the Nazis in the thirties.
They were good pals from 1939 to 1941. Until the Nazis invaded their beloved Soviet Union, the Left in this country was all for neutrality.
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Communist opposed the Nazis in the thirties. They were both evil. And yes, they occupied the same moral plane.
The antifa and BLM thugs are just as evil as the Nazis and are doing far more damage to the country.
Which side do YOU!!! think is the biggest danger to the country.....a few hundred Nazi idiots or the many thousands of leftist thugs now infesting college campi and other areas? .
@goatprairie
Lefties supported nazi's in the 30s too.
The people who call themselves Nazi's today are mostly white supremacists from what I've seen. So called Aryans who just happen to have brown hair and poor muscle tone. In my area they were called skin heads and tend to be violent, poor, uneducated, and otherwise marginalized from the main stream. I've run into them at gun shows when my Asian wife was with me.
The BLM and Antifa people are really more like the Nazi of old. They use group think and violence to force their beliefs on everyone else. Very similar to what was done before WWII. I think that is why this incident has resonated so much with the media, its given them a vehicle to demonize their enemy while giving further credence to the left.
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Please let me know if Trump ever happens to fall into Conservatism.
@Hoodat
What would you call the move he made on the Supreme Court? Or the massive number of govt regulations he's removed?
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No, the statues will be sacrificed because they have been made the victim of the fables taught about the War of Northern Aggression, which have converted the visages of men who suffered and often lost all fighting for their country against the invading Northern Armies into symbols of racism and hatred.
Suppose only a few Sons of the Confederacy and Daughters of Confederate Veterans had showed up. Do you really think that the actions of Antifa/BLM would have been any less egregious?
If the Media hadn't had those alt-right idiots showing up, they would have had to hire some or use stock footage from elsewhere just to prove the people protesting the removal of the statue were "racists".
You can't convince me that everyone in the crowd there to protest the removal of the statues was affiliated with the alt-right groups which got the news images and video time, either. I firmly believe there was some media distortion going on, whatever the motive for those optics may be--but something which I suspect they were going to try to tie to the President in their ongoing war against the duly elected POTUS.
One demented assh*le running down people in the streets doesn't help either.
B R A V O ! ! ! Well said and spot on!
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There is but one goal in all of this! Can anyone guess what it is?
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There is but one goal in all of this! Can anyone guess what it is?
You have to erase the history of the people you intend to subjugate or liquidate.
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You have to erase the history of the people you intend to subjugate or liquidate.
"Today is History...."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLOmE8-lqO8
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You have to erase the history of the people you intend to subjugate or liquidate.
That is true but not the correct answer to the question. ALL of this is being ginned up by denizens of the swamp in an effort to make sure no swamp draining occurs!
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That is true but not the correct answer to the question. ALL of this is being ginned up by denizens of the swamp in an effort to make sure no swamp draining occurs!
It's bigger than that, and it is out of their control, having lit the fuse.
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That is true but not the correct answer to the question. ALL of this is being ginned up by denizens of the swamp in an effort to make sure no swamp draining occurs!
Yep. We will spend all of our time arguing amongst ourselves about statues and who's more racist.
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You have to erase the history of the people you intend to subjugate or liquidate.
The whiff of bullshit is heavy with this one . . . *****rollingeyes*****
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The whiff of bullshit is heavy with this one . . .
None so blind or deaf than those who promulgate the very thing they insist is not going to happen.
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Communists opposed the Nazis in the thirties. They were both evil. And yes, they occupied the same moral plane.
The antifa and BLM thugs are just as evil as the Nazis and are doing far more damage to the country.
Which side do YOU!!! think is the biggest danger to the country.....a few hundred Nazi idiots or the many thousands of leftist thugs now infesting college campi and other areas? .
Communists and National Socialists opposed each other because they were competing for the same followers by appealing to antithetical philosophical agendas: internationalist versus nationalist. Otherwise, they're just different species of left wing totalitarians.
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Communists and National Socialists opposed each other because they were competing for the same followers by appealing to antithetical philosophical agendas: internationalist versus nationalist. Otherwise, they're just different species of left wing totalitarians.
All I know is that if forced to choice one of these, it's an easy choice.
With one, I'll be killed.
With the other, I'll just suffer.
I'd rather not die.
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All I know is that if forced to choice one of these, it's an easy choice.
With one, I'll be killed.
With the other, I'll just suffer.
I'd rather not die.
Can you elaborate. They're both bad and they've both killed lots of people.
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Can you elaborate. They're both bad and they've both killed lots of people.
Nazis want Jews dead. That's been made very obvious after 6 million of us died by their hands in the 1940s.
Communist don't. They like to oppress Jews and deny us the same 'rights' as others, but as a whole, there is no call for a mass campaign of genocide.
I'd rather not have to make such a choice.
But if America is bound and determined to force this Hobbsian choice; there is only one choice.
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Nazis want Jews dead. That's been made very obvious after 6 million of us died by their hands in the 1940s.
Communist don't. They like to oppress Jews and deny us the same 'rights' as others, but as a whole, there is no call for a mass campaign of genocide.
I'd rather not have to make such a choice.
But if America is bound and determined to force this Hobbsian choice; there is only one choice.
Al Sharpton Led His First Anti-Semitic Race-Riot In Crown Heights, Twenty-Three Years Ago Today
On the job training for a professonal hater
8.19.2014
News
Jeff Dunetz
Al Sharpton wasn't always an unrepentant MSNBC star, advisor to president Obama, and first-in-line to agitate a racial situation anywhere in the country. Twenty-three years ago a tragic car accident in Crown Heights Brooklyn escalated into a pogrom against the Jewish people. The media usually gives it a politically correct description: "violence between the area's Blacks and Jews." But the violence was not two-sided. The Crown Heights riot was an attack on the Jews by the neighborhood's Caribbean community, fueled in large part by Al Sharpton, the "Reverend"who does not believe in the commandment about "bearing false witness."
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/al-sharpton-led-his-first-anti-semitic-race-riot-crown-heights-twenty-three-years-ago-today
Lest we forget, this is "whataboutism"; but it is interesting, that folks who have said antisemitic things, that might include someone like Keith Ellison, Democratic vice chair are not being called out over this in the same tone.
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Nazis want Jews dead. That's been made very obvious after 6 million of us died by their hands in the 1940s.
Communist don't. They like to oppress Jews and deny us the same 'rights' as others, but as a whole, there is no call for a mass campaign of genocide.
I'd rather not have to make such a choice.
But if America is bound and determined to force this Hobbsian choice; there is only one choice.
Don't tell the Ukranians that. Or, Chinese peasants. Or Cambodians. No, wait, they were killed off in famines and mass murders...
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Communist don't. They like to oppress Jews and deny us the same 'rights' as others, but as a whole, there is no call for a mass campaign of genocide.
Tell that to all the Ukrainians who starved to death under Stalin. And there was a lot of "Ethnic Cleansing" under Stalin's rule....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
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Communists and National Socialists opposed each other because they were competing for the same followers by appealing to antithetical philosophical agendas: internationalist versus nationalist. Otherwise, they're just different species of left wing totalitarians.
The irony being that Stalin opposed "Internationalism" and went with "Socialism in One Country", and wanted "Russification" of the entire Soviet Union. He uprooted entire races of people in certain areas, to be replaced with ethnic Russians.
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Obama has probably consorted with known anti-Semites like Ellison, Sharpton. Oh, let's not remember that now.
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We aren't going to have to choose between Nazis and Communists. We will have to decide if violence is acceptable to silence someone. All of us grew up with the adage "I may not like what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it". It's a paraphrase of Voltaire. The far Left today has abandoned that and some of my liberal friends have started to abandon that.
The Nazis/White Power groups will always be a small fringe movement. The far-left fascists grow stronger and larger every day. And they also don't like Jews and the media will defend them if they ever decide to start smashing windows.
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Communists opposed the Nazis in the thirties. They were both evil. And yes, they occupied the same moral plane.
The antifa and BLM thugs are just as evil as the Nazis and are doing far more damage to the country.
Which side do YOU!!! think is the biggest danger to the country.....a few hundred Nazi idiots or the many thousands of leftist thugs now infesting college campi and other areas? .
Actually, since both sides shout down rational discussion, I think both of those extremes are equally bad. If the Left didn't have the "alt-right" to point to, there'd be no real boogeymen to rally against.
In that sense, a few hundred idiots poison the well of rational Conservatism, and enable the leftist extremists by giving them poster children of evil on the "right" (as taught to the mush minded of today).
In actuality National Socialists, Communists, and other totalitarians are the enemy, wherever you stand, because they would deny fundamental rights to anyone who is not one of them, something which is inarguably unAmerican.
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Nazis want Jews dead. That's been made very obvious after 6 million of us died by their hands in the 1940s.
Communist don't. They like to oppress Jews and deny us the same 'rights' as others, but as a whole, there is no call for a mass campaign of genocide.
I'd rather not have to make such a choice.
But if America is bound and determined to force this Hobbsian choice; there is only one choice.
Historically the communists have a much more complicated history with Jews than nazis did. One of the reasons Israel is so much more socialistic is the number of Israeli Jews who came from Soviet bloc nations.
My great grandfather was a Polish Jew who spent the first 10 years of his life on the run. He finally fled the Austro-Hungarian Empire and set sail for Canada from Amsterdam as an Austrian Catholic. By the time he arrived in Detroit and swore his intent to become a citizen he had officially become a Methodist. (It was still tough for Jews to get into the states circa 1912.)
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And if there was no alt-right, the Left would invent it.
Which I suspect may very well be what is happening here.
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Nazis want Jews dead. That's been made very obvious after 6 million of us died by their hands in the 1940s.
Communist don't. They like to oppress Jews and deny us the same 'rights' as others, but as a whole, there is no call for a mass campaign of genocide.
I'd rather not have to make such a choice.
But if America is bound and determined to force this Hobbsian choice; there is only one choice.
Be honest, John. Yes the Nazis had it specifically in for the Jews, but there were another 15 million people they slaughtered. While you are at it, kindly don't ignore the contributions to the rolls of the dead made by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, PapaDoc, Baby Doc, and a host of other totalitarians, just because many of the victims were not Jewish. The death toll is easily over 100 million in the last century.
My fight is against totalitarians, I don't care what flavor, color, espoused political philosophy, or religion they claim.
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Be honest, John. Yes the Nazis had it specifically in for the Jews, but there were another 15 million people they slaughtered. While you are at it, kindly don't ignore the contributions to the rolls of the dead made by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, PapaDoc, Baby Doc, and a host of other totalitarians, just because many of the victims were not Jewish. The death toll is easily over 100 million in the last century.
My fight is against totalitarians, I don't care what flavor, color, espoused political philosophy, or religion they claim.
What makes the Left much more dangerous is the cover they get in the media and academia. People think it's "cool" to wear a Che T-Shirt without realizing what a monster he was.
Basically the Communists and Nazis did the same thing. Exploited the poor and downtrodden for the benefit of the few who were in power.
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And if there was no alt-right, the Left would invent it.
Which I suspect may very well be what is happening here.
Maybe they didn't invent it, but I think they are intentionally presenting it far out of proportion to its numbers or adherents for the purpose of increasing the numbers on the other side, and they are presenting it as an either-or proposition, as they usually do. They are using those fools as a recruiting tool for the Left.
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Maybe they didn't invent it, but I think they are intentionally presenting it far out of proportion to its numbers or adherents for the purpose of increasing the numbers on the other side, and they are presenting it as an either-or proposition, as they usually do. They are using those fools as a recruiting tool for the Left.
Of course they are. Liberals around here are positively deranged and obsessed over the news stories of the last few days. It is astonishing to witness - but it does us no good at all to defend these cretins, because the intent of the media is to tar all conservatives with the alt-right brush. Whoever coined the Charlottesville rally as "Unite the Right" was a genius - as far as the goals of the alt-left are concerned.
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Of course they are. Liberals around here are positively deranged and obsessed over the news stories of the last few days. It is astonishing to witness - but it does us no good at all to defend these cretins, because the intent of the media is to tar all conservatives with the alt-right brush. Whoever coined the Charlottesville rally as "Unite the Right" was a genius - as far as the goals of the alt-left are concerned.
We have had our differences, but on this, I agree. It's time to Untie the Right (from negative and often racist stereotypes).
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This entire situation is the result and consequence of the civil society being undone.
There cannot be a restoration of a civil society, only a restoration of order under a totalitarian fist of one sort or another.
There cannot be a restoration of the civil society we were, because this nation has discarded wholesale, the core foundations that made it a civil society. The numbers of those who want that foundation dug up, discarded and replaced is more than half the population thanks to Liberal indoctrination and the importation of third world squatters.
Then there are the Jihadists imported here in our midst.
No folks, Judgment is at hand. The consequences we are just now beginning to witness.
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Whoever coined the Charlottesville rally as "Unite the Right" was a genius - as far as the goals of the alt-left are concerned.
They obviously read their Alinsky.
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This entire situation is the result and consequence of the civil society being undone.
There cannot be a restoration of a civil society, only a restoration of order under a totalitarian fist of one sort or another.
There cannot be a restoration of the civil society we were, because this nation has discarded wholesale, the core foundations that made it a civil society. The numbers of those who want that foundation dug up, discarded and replaced is more than half the population thanks to Liberal indoctrination and the importation of third world squatters.
Then there are the Jihadists imported here in our midst.
No folks, Judgment is at hand. The consequences we are just now beginning to witness.
What a waste it is to lose one's mind.
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This entire situation is the result and consequence of the civil society being undone.
There cannot be a restoration of a civil society, only a restoration of order under a totalitarian fist of one sort or another.
There cannot be a restoration of the civil society we were, because this nation has discarded wholesale, the core foundations that made it a civil society. The numbers of those who want that foundation dug up, discarded and replaced is more than half the population thanks to Liberal indoctrination and the importation of third world squatters.
Then there are the Jihadists imported here in our midst.
No folks, Judgment is at hand. The consequences we are just now beginning to witness.
Actually, this is well said, I'm not sure I agree with all of it but the general sentiment. I know INVAR sometimes comes over a bit strong.
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Not a coincidence that the past few generations are unchurched. Where are they going to learn to love their neighbor (rather than hate whatever is different about him, no matter how inconsequential)?
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This entire situation is the result and consequence of the civil society being undone.
There cannot be a restoration of a civil society, only a restoration of order under a totalitarian fist of one sort or another.
There cannot be a restoration of the civil society we were, because this nation has discarded wholesale, the core foundations that made it a civil society. The numbers of those who want that foundation dug up, discarded and replaced is more than half the population thanks to Liberal indoctrination and the importation of third world squatters.
Then there are the Jihadists imported here in our midst.
No folks, Judgment is at hand. The consequences we are just now beginning to witness.
Perhaps. I see this as an opportunity to point to the egregious fallacies of the unrighteous and between the violent excesses of the mobs in the streets and the failure of the doctrine they espouse, the chance to point people down a different path, back to traditional values and The Almighty, back to the Founders' concept of freedom (sans the institution of slavery, of course).
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Like stark raving mad strong. *****rollingeyes*****
But go ahead, associate yourself with such paranoid nonsense.
@Jazzhead, stop with the personal insults.
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Like stark raving mad strong. *****rollingeyes*****
But go ahead, associate yourself with such paranoid nonsense.
Undermine the foundations and the house will collapse. Not so mad. Try it with your place, I'll send you a shovel.
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The whiff of bullshit is heavy with this one . . . *****rollingeyes*****
@Jazzhead @INVAR
At risk of appearing to agree with invar. They UN has proclaimed over population to be the biggest problem. People like Hillary, Bill Gates and Soros have said the earth population needs to be reduced by 75%
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@Jazzhead @INVAR
At risk of appearing to agree with invar. They UN has proclaimed over population to be the biggest problem. People like Hillary, Bill Gates and Soros have said the earth population needs to be reduced by 75%
Yeah. All those penny stinkers running around really muck up the view from the veranda. Just a fourth, with automation and a little cattle-prodding should be enough to support the totalitarian overlords in the style they feel they should be accustomed, and keep the toilets clean, the flowers fresh, and the lawns exquisitely manicured. :smokin:
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@Jazzhead, stop with the personal insults.
Mod2 - I deleted my post.
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Mod2 - I deleted my post.
Thank you.
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What a waste it is to lose one's mind.
Ahh yes. John Adams must have been a raving lunatic in your estimation over the same sentiments I paraphrased above that you have issues with.
Like this one he penned to his wife in 1775:
"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it".
@Jazzhead @INVAR
They UN has proclaimed over population to be the biggest problem. People like Hillary, Bill Gates and Soros have said the earth population needs to be reduced by 75%
As you know, that number of dead comports with biblical prophecy, so to assert such ideas are nonsense is to be woefully ignorant of history and the scriptures, which of course our resident Leftist is.
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Communist don't. They like to oppress Jews and deny us the same 'rights' as others, but as a whole, there is no call for a mass campaign of genocide.
Two million Cambodians would disagree.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/23/01/000BD06800000258-0-image-a-5_1440289192879.jpg)
First they came for the Cambodians. But I said nothing because I wasn't Cambodian. . . .
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Be honest, John. Yes the Nazis had it specifically in for the Jews, but there were another 15 million people they slaughtered. While you are at it, kindly don't ignore the contributions to the rolls of the dead made by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, PapaDoc, Baby Doc, and a host of other totalitarians, just because many of the victims were not Jewish. The death toll is easily over 100 million in the last century.
My fight is against totalitarians, I don't care what flavor, color, espoused political philosophy, or religion they claim.
I gotta step in with some info here, Joe. Your 100 million is woefully short. 20th-century death numbers:
MORTACRACIES
The Deka-Megamurderers ... 219.634 million
China (PRC) 1949-87 .... 76.702 million
U.S.S.R. 1917-87 ........ 61.911 million
Colonialism .............. 50.000 million
Germany 1933-45 ....... 20.946 million (including 5.291 million Jews)
China (KMT) 1928-49 ... 10.075 million
The Megamurderers .... 19.180 million
Japan 1936-45 ............ 5.964 million
China (Mao Soviets) 1923-48 ... 3.468 million
Cambodia 1975-79 ........ 2.035 million
Turkey 1909-18 ........... 1.883 million
Vietnam 1945-87 .......... 1.647 million
Poland 1945-48 ........... 1.585 million
Pakistan 1958-87 ......... 1.503 million
Yugoslavia (Tito) 1944-87 ... 1.072 million
Total 20th century war death toll: 35 million to 40 million.
Meanwhile, the 15 bloodiest wars:
1. World War II, 20 million dead (1937-45).
2. World War I, 8.5 million dead (1914-18).
3. Korean War, 1.2 million dead (1950-53).
4. Chinese civil war, 1.2 million dead (1945-49).
5. Vietnam War, 1.2 million dead (1965-73).
6. Iran-Iraq War, 850,000 dead (1980-88).
7. Russian civil war, 800,000 dead (1918-21).
8. Chinese civil war, 400,000 dead (1927-39).
9. French Indochina war, 385,000 dead (1945-54).
10. Mexican Revolution, 200,000 dead (1911-20).
11. Spanish Civil War, 200,000 dead (1936-39).
12. French Algeria war, 160,000 dead (1954-62).
13. Afghanistan war, 150,000 dead (1980-89).
14. Russo-Japanese war, 130,000 dead (1904-05).
15. Riffian war (Morocco), 100,000 dead (1921-26).
15. First Sudanese Civil War, 100,000 dead (1956-72).
15. Russo-Polish War, 100,000 dead (1919-20).
15. Biafran War, 100,000 dead (1967-70).
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I gotta step in with some info here, Joe. Your 100 million is woefully short. 20th-century death numbers:
MORTACRACIES
The Deka-Megamurderers ... 219.634 million
China (PRC) 1949-87 .... 76.702 million
U.S.S.R. 1917-87 ........ 61.911 million
Colonialism .............. 50.000 million
Germany 1933-45 ....... 20.946 million (including 5.291 million Jews)
China (KMT) 1928-49 ... 10.075 million
The Megamurderers .... 19.180 million
Japan 1936-45 ............ 5.964 million
China (Mao Soviets) 1923-48 ... 3.468 million
Cambodia 1975-79 ........ 2.035 million
Turkey 1909-18 ........... 1.883 million
Vietnam 1945-87 .......... 1.647 million
Poland 1945-48 ........... 1.585 million
Pakistan 1958-87 ......... 1.503 million
Yugoslavia (Tito) 1944-87 ... 1.072 million
Total 20th century war death toll: 35 million to 40 million.
Meanwhile, the 15 bloodiest wars:
1. World War II, 20 million dead (1937-45).
2. World War I, 8.5 million dead (1914-18).
3. Korean War, 1.2 million dead (1950-53).
4. Chinese civil war, 1.2 million dead (1945-49).
5. Vietnam War, 1.2 million dead (1965-73).
6. Iran-Iraq War, 850,000 dead (1980-88).
7. Russian civil war, 800,000 dead (1918-21).
8. Chinese civil war, 400,000 dead (1927-39).
9. French Indochina war, 385,000 dead (1945-54).
10. Mexican Revolution, 200,000 dead (1911-20).
11. Spanish Civil War, 200,000 dead (1936-39).
12. French Algeria war, 160,000 dead (1954-62).
13. Afghanistan war, 150,000 dead (1980-89).
14. Russo-Japanese war, 130,000 dead (1904-05).
15. Riffian war (Morocco), 100,000 dead (1921-26).
15. First Sudanese Civil War, 100,000 dead (1956-72).
15. Russo-Polish War, 100,000 dead (1919-20).
15. Biafran War, 100,000 dead (1967-70).
Thanks for the correction, @bigheadfred !
Ugly, isn't it?
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If someone preaches hate against groups that supposedly espouse hate, isn't that some as bad as the group?
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Thanks for the correction, @bigheadfred !
Ugly, isn't it?
It is ugly. So much so it is actually hard for me to wrap my mind around it. It is easier to digest if you think of it as just under three million per year , every year, for a hundred years. Ok, not really easier.
I also have a suspicion the numbers from the Soviet Union and China, especially China, are way short.
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If someone preaches hate against groups that supposedly espouse hate, isn't that some as bad as the group?
Absolutely.
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If someone preaches hate against groups that supposedly espouse hate, isn't that some as bad as the group?
Not just hate but intolerance towards these viewpoints.
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I don't give a damn if they were wearing full dress SS uniforms and waving giant size swastika flags. Such an occurrence does not suspend the laws against assault and battery.
The governor wanted a confrontation, and he got it.
First, he declared a state of emergency and removed the authority of the Charlotteville police by putting the State Police in charge.
Next, he used tear gas to chase the white supremacists out of the first park (the one they had the permit for).
A path was created for that group to reach the second park, but that path ran head on into the Antifa group.
The white supremacists were then diverted into the second park allowing the Antifa group to block their exit.
And finally, state police in full riot gear pushed the white supremacists back out of that park head on into the Antifa group.
McAuliffe is looking for free publicity for his Presidential run in 2020. He orchestrated the whole thing. The Charlottesville police were doing a decent job of keeping the sides separated. But once the state of emergency was declared and the state took control, everything went to hell. McAuliffe just didn't count on the kid with the car. After that, the state police got serious in restoring order.
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I don't give a damn if they were wearing full dress SS uniforms and waving giant size swastika flags. Such an occurrence does not suspend the laws against assault and battery.
The governor wanted a confrontation, and he got it.
First, he declared a state of emergency and removed the authority of the Charlotteville police by putting the State Police in charge.
Next, he used tear gas to chase the white supremacists out of the first park (the one they had the permit for).
A path was created for that group to reach the second park, but that path ran head on into the Antifa group.
The white supremacists were then diverted into the second park allowing the Antifa group to block their exit.
And finally, state police in full riot gear pushed the white supremacists back out of that park head on into the Antifa group.
McAuliffe is looking for free publicity for his Presidential run in 2020. He orchestrated the whole thing. The Charlottesville police were doing a decent job of keeping the sides separated. But once the state of emergency was declared and the state took control, everything went to hell. McAuliffe just didn't count on the kid with the car. After that, the state police got serious in restoring order.
That's pretty much the story eye witnesses are telling. They don't mention McAuliffe but the do tell what happened and it comports with your description of events right down the line.
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That's pretty much the story eye witnesses are telling. They don't mention McAuliffe but the do tell what happened and it comports with your description of events right down the line.
Doesn't matter what the eyewitnesses saw and report anymore.
What matters is the narrative that the media and the Political Caste has now permanently sown in the minds of the populace.
It will not matter now what evidence or video you find or show that contradicts the media narrative. The "reality" is now set, the zeitgeist is now marching to tear down all that offends them while the iron is hot, having been led there by the Victim Pimps on the Left.
The White South/Christian/Conservative culture are the new Kulaks and so is their history.
Read up on the Ukraine in the 20s. You are about to relive it.
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I gotta step in with some info here, Joe. Your 100 million is woefully short. 20th-century death numbers:
MORTACRACIES
The Deka-Megamurderers ... 219.634 million
China (PRC) 1949-87 .... 76.702 million
U.S.S.R. 1917-87 ........ 61.911 million
Colonialism .............. 50.000 million
Germany 1933-45 ....... 20.946 million (including 5.291 million Jews)
China (KMT) 1928-49 ... 10.075 million
The Megamurderers .... 19.180 million
Japan 1936-45 ............ 5.964 million
China (Mao Soviets) 1923-48 ... 3.468 million
Cambodia 1975-79 ........ 2.035 million
Turkey 1909-18 ........... 1.883 million
Vietnam 1945-87 .......... 1.647 million
Poland 1945-48 ........... 1.585 million
Pakistan 1958-87 ......... 1.503 million
Yugoslavia (Tito) 1944-87 ... 1.072 million
Total 20th century war death toll: 35 million to 40 million.
Meanwhile, the 15 bloodiest wars:
1. World War II, 20 million dead (1937-45).
2. World War I, 8.5 million dead (1914-18).
3. Korean War, 1.2 million dead (1950-53).
4. Chinese civil war, 1.2 million dead (1945-49).
5. Vietnam War, 1.2 million dead (1965-73).
6. Iran-Iraq War, 850,000 dead (1980-88).
7. Russian civil war, 800,000 dead (1918-21).
8. Chinese civil war, 400,000 dead (1927-39).
9. French Indochina war, 385,000 dead (1945-54).
10. Mexican Revolution, 200,000 dead (1911-20).
11. Spanish Civil War, 200,000 dead (1936-39).
12. French Algeria war, 160,000 dead (1954-62).
13. Afghanistan war, 150,000 dead (1980-89).
14. Russo-Japanese war, 130,000 dead (1904-05).
15. Riffian war (Morocco), 100,000 dead (1921-26).
15. First Sudanese Civil War, 100,000 dead (1956-72).
15. Russo-Polish War, 100,000 dead (1919-20).
15. Biafran War, 100,000 dead (1967-70).
Uh....I know it's early.....but.....
no mention of the US Civil War there? Why not? I guess the question should be...why limit it to that time-frame?
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no mention of the US Civil War there? Why not?
Because the waw-uh ain't over yet.
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Not just hate but intolerance towards these viewpoints.
Eggzackly! :amen:
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Uh....I know it's early.....but.....
no mention of the US Civil War there? Why not? I guess the question should be...why limit it to that time-frame?
The only thing I would include is the total number of people murdered by islam. Since that ideology has been fairly consistent since its incepetion.
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Doesn't matter what the eyewitnesses saw and report anymore.
What matters is the narrative that the media and the Political Caste has now permanently sown in the minds of the populace.
It's pretty much the implementation of the "Two Minutes Hate".
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Uh....I know it's early.....but.....
no mention of the US Civil War there? Why not? I guess the question should be...why limit it to that time-frame?
I guess you would have to place some time limits on it (since the beginning of time?) and this was the past century.
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The only thing I would include is the total number of people murdered by islam. Since that ideology has been fairly consistent since its incepetion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
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It's pretty much the implementation of the "Two Minutes Hate".
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eNV_uMAR7Eo/maxresdefault.jpg)
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02822/1984_2822458b.jpg)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0VdJAgLRoE
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Uh....I know it's early.....but.....
no mention of the US Civil War there? Why not? I guess the question should be...why limit it to that time-frame?
We were discussing the relative body counts of Fascist and Communist totalitarians, and my estimate of 100 plus million for the Communist/Marxist group was woefully inadequate over the last century, as @bigheadfred pointed out.
While the War of Northern Aggression killed some 620,000 combatants, and likely two times as many civilians (mostly Southern), the communists and fascists were not involved as a political ideology. While the war had its totalitarian elements, neither of those particular flavors of totalitarianism were blatantly involved.
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We were discussing the relative body counts of Fascist and Communist totalitarians, and my estimate of 100 plus million for the Communist/Marxist group was woefully inadequate over the last century, as @bigheadfred pointed out.
While the War of Northern Aggression killed some 620,000 combatants, and likely two times as many civilians (mostly Southern), the communists and fascists were not involved as a political ideology. While the war had its totalitarian elements, neither of those particular flavors of totalitarianism were blatantly involved.
Ok....thanks. And nevermind....lol. I wasn't aware.
That's what I get for trying to play catch-up in two minutes, sans caffeine. ^-^
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Ok....thanks. And nevermind....lol. I wasn't aware.
That's what I get for trying to play catch-up in two minutes, sans caffeine. ^-^
Coffee is a food group! :laugh:
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We were discussing the relative body counts of Fascist and Communist totalitarians, and my estimate of 100 plus million for the Communist/Marxist group was woefully inadequate over the last century, as @bigheadfred pointed out.
While the War of Northern Aggression killed some 620,000 combatants, and likely two times as many civilians (mostly Southern), the communists and fascists were not involved as a political ideology. While the war had its totalitarian elements, neither of those particular flavors of totalitarianism were blatantly involved.
@Smokin Joe
Actually that is not quite true!
Many of the leaders of the failed Marxist revolutions which occurred all over Europe in and around 1848 (commonly referred to as the 48ers by historians) escaped the hangman by running to America! Some of them became prominent in bringing about the death of the Whig party and the rising of the new Republican party and many of those were rewarded with military commissions in Mr. Lincoln's army one of which (August Willich) rose to the rank of Major General and never stopped a running correspondence with his friend Karl Marx until Marx passed away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Willich
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@Smokin Joe
Actually that is not quite true!
Many of the leaders of the failed Marxist revolutions which occurred all over Europe in and around 1848 (commonly referred to as the 48ers by historians) escaped the hangman by running to America! Some of them became prominent in bringing about the death of the Whig party and the rising of the new Republican party and many of those were rewarded with military commissions in Mr. Lincoln's army one of which (August Willich) rose to the rank of Major General and never stopped a running correspondence with his friend Karl Marx until Marx passed away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Willich
Thanks. I really do learn something every day. I was not aware of the Marxist/Yankee connection.
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Thanks. I really do learn something every day. I was not aware of the Marxist/Yankee connection.
And that is by design! You must ALWAYS remember that the history of wars is written by the victor and greatly biased so as to put them in the best possible light!
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And that is by design! You must ALWAYS remember that the history of wars is written by the victor and greatly biased so as to put them in the best possible light!
I'm a Marylander by birth, with deep roots there (back to colonial times). I am well aware there are gross distortions in the fables presented as history.
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I'm a Marylander by birth, with deep roots there (back to colonial times). I am well aware there are gross distortions in the fables presented as history.
Good! You are among the very few who are so informed! :beer:
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@Smokin Joe
Actually that is not quite true!
Many of the leaders of the failed Marxist revolutions which occurred all over Europe in and around 1848 (commonly referred to as the 48ers by historians) escaped the hangman by running to America! Some of them became prominent in bringing about the death of the Whig party and the rising of the new Republican party and many of those were rewarded with military commissions in Mr. Lincoln's army one of which (August Willich) rose to the rank of Major General and never stopped a running correspondence with his friend Karl Marx until Marx passed away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Willich
I didn't know that!
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I didn't know that!
@Sanguine
IMHO that was the beginning of what has brought us to where we find ourselves today! And there is a reason why few have any idea about it!
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@Sanguine @Smokin Joe
Here's a little Marx for you!
The war between the North and the South is a tariff war. The war is further, not for any principle, does not touch the question of slavery, and in fact turns on the Northern lust for sovereignty.
Karl Marx, 1861
The greatest tool Communism has in our toolbox is the progressive income tax.
Karl Marx
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
Excellant video!
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@Sanguine @Smokin Joe
Here's a little Marx for you!
Karl Marx, 1861
Karl Marx
I have long maintained that the threat of Abolition wielded by the North was an Economic threat, first and foremost.
Not only would the wealthiest (as well as the small slave owner) be divested of major assets (slaves did have considerable value), but would be deprived of the necessary labor to raise and harvest the crops which were the backbone of the Southern economy.
That the South sought to secure that vital part of the economy would be no surprise, but that was only one facet of the economic fight, and the last straw as far as many were concerned.
Slavery, with the influx and migration of large numbers of European immigrants would have died on its own accord. The supply was so massive, that not only could Northerners be selective in who they hired ("The Irish need not apply"), but they used them mercilessly as cannon fodder, even paying immigrants to go to war to escape conscription. The economics of paying someone a wage and letting them fend for themselves for housing, food, medicine, and not having money invested in their existence would have lured the vast majority of slave owners to manumit. Slaves in much of Maryland were increasingly being freed before the war, because the nature of the agriculture practiced there no longer required as many to grow and harvest the produce demanded by the expanding populations of the Federal District and Baltimore.
When the economics of long term costs versus revenue are weighed against purchase price, the equation works out that it is cheaper to free slaves and hire them back or hire immigrants who have no up front investment burden, and can be fired at a whim. When there is no longer any necessity to pay for housing food clothing etc. (to maintain that initial investment) company store arrangements can be used to recoup part of the wages (or all of them) and debtor laws leave those who are profligate in their spending in thrall as serious as slavery.
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@Smokin Joe
Actually that is not quite true!
Many of the leaders of the failed Marxist revolutions which occurred all over Europe in and around 1848 (commonly referred to as the 48ers by historians) escaped the hangman by running to America! Some of them became prominent in bringing about the death of the Whig party and the rising of the new Republican party and many of those were rewarded with military commissions in Mr. Lincoln's army one of which (August Willich) rose to the rank of Major General and never stopped a running correspondence with his friend Karl Marx until Marx passed away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Willich
I didn't know it either. Thanks @Bigun. I guess the reason people don't learn from the past is they don't know it.
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I didn't know it either. Thanks @Bigun. I guess the reason people don't learn from the past is they don't know it.
Pretty much! Joseph Goebbels learned his craft from a man by the name of Edward Bernays who worked for Woodrow Wilson!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
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Pretty much! Joseph Goebbels learned his craft from a man by the name of Edward Bernays who worked for Woodrow Wilson!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
Bacon and eggs!
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The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.
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Hey @Sanguine. Have you ever read the book of Enoch?
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Hey @Sanguine. Have you ever read the book of Enoch?
I have.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHenYM4WsAIZQTR.jpg)
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I have.
I was thinking about your beginning of time thing.
According to that book, thank the fallen angels for all the world woes.
I was also thinking about how much of that influence is present today. The fruits of the labor coming on in season from seeds planted long ago.
The art of warcraft.
"And Azazel taught men to make swords and knives and shields and breastplates; and made known to them the metals [of the earth] and the art of working them; and bracelets and ornaments; and the use of antimony and the beautifying of the eyelids; and all kinds of costly stones and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray and became corrupt in all their ways." And the other things the other ones taught to people.
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I was thinking about your beginning of time thing.
According to that book, thank the fallen angels for all the world woes.
I was also thinking about how much of that influence is present today. The fruits of the labor coming on in season from seeds planted long ago.
The art of warcraft.
"And Azazel taught men to make swords and knives and shields and breastplates; and made known to them the metals [of the earth] and the art of working them; and bracelets and ornaments; and the use of antimony and the beautifying of the eyelids; and all kinds of costly stones and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray and became corrupt in all their ways." And the other things the other ones taught to people.
it was LONG before that my friend:
Revelation 12:7-9 - And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, (Read More...)
Revelation 12:7-12 - And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, (Read More...)
Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-War-In-Heaven/
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I was thinking about your beginning of time thing.
According to that book, thank the fallen angels for all the world woes.
I was also thinking about how much of that influence is present today. The fruits of the labor coming on in season from seeds planted long ago.
The art of warcraft.
"And Azazel taught men to make swords and knives and shields and breastplates; and made known to them the metals [of the earth] and the art of working them; and bracelets and ornaments; and the use of antimony and the beautifying of the eyelids; and all kinds of costly stones and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray and became corrupt in all their ways." And the other things the other ones taught to people.
There's a German word: augenblick, meaning time measured as an eyeblink. We've only been here for an augenblick. We tend to think we're so much more intelligent and knowledgeable than those people. Maybe God will mold us more into his own image yet, given time.
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There's a German word: augenblick, meaning time measured as an eyeblink. We've only been here for an augenblick. We tend to think we're so much more intelligent and knowledgeable than those people. Maybe God will mold us more into his own image yet, given time.
Maybe God will mold us more into his own image yet, given time.
No. See. It is free will. Give your free will back to the Source and see. See that Faith. What you say happens. It isn't He molding us into his own image. It is us molding ourselves back into His.
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Maybe God will mold us more into his own image yet, given time.
No. See. It is free will. Give your free will back to the Source and see. See that Faith. What you say happens. It isn't He molding us into his own image. It is us molding ourselves back into His.
BRAVO!!! Right on Fred!!!
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Maybe God will mold us more into his own image yet, given time.
No. See. It is free will. Give your free will back to the Source and see. See that Faith. What you say happens. It isn't He molding us into his own image. It is us molding ourselves back into His.
I stand corrected, Fred. You are right.
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And I practice what I preach. Every day every day every day. Except for the time off to be an ahole.