“They don’t get to hold the entire economy hostage over ideological demands,” Obama said.
The GOP leadership team should have gamed this whole thing out. They should have anticipated that letting it go this far, puts Obama on the "bully-pulpit" everyday.
But wait. I believe the GOP leadership did intend to get something out of the budget showdown, but only what was consistent with holding a less-than-veto-proof majority of one house.
Along came the Cruz faction, and handed Obama his chance to shut down the govt. and blame it on Republicans.
I think we get it, you do not like Ted Cruz.Any remarks on the substance of my comments?
Any remarks on the substance of my comments?
FYI, I neither "like" or "dislike" Cruz. I'm considering the effectiveness of his actions.
You know, message vs. messenger, that sort of distinction. That sometimes requires holding two, somewhat contradictory ideas, in one's mind.
You and your sidekick here are both convinced this bill should become law. I am equally convinced it should not and if we don't stand on this hill and fight then the GOP might as well pack it in. I think Ted Cruz is great and wish we had dozens more like him in the senate.
Obamacare IS law. The only way to overturn it is to retake the Senate in 2014 and the White House in 2016.
Any remarks on the substance of my comments?
and that is the truth.. We need to live in the real world. I have a feeling that Ted Cruz mania will go down in a couple of years.
I don't know about that. Cruz is now in the pantheon of Tea Party Gods. As with Sarah Palin, some will hang on his every word.
True, but the path the Cruz and Palin is leading the Tea Party is not a good one.
Well, we'll see. As with everything else, if the GOP somehow comes out of this shutdown intact, it will be because of Ted Cruz.
If they crash and burn and lose the House next year, Cruz will be absolved of any blame whatsoever.
It's great to be a Tea Party God.
True, but the path the Cruz and Palin is leading the Tea Party is not a good one.
So what's your solution for a winning ticket??? Bush/Christie 2016??? :2barf:
Well, we'll see. As with everything else, if the GOP somehow comes out of this shutdown intact, it will be because of Ted Cruz.
If they crash and burn and lose the House next year, Cruz will be absolved of any blame whatsoever.
It's great to be a Tea Party God.
True, but the path the Cruz and Palin is leading the Tea Party is not a good one.
You and your sidekick here are both convinced this bill should become law. I am equally convinced it should not and if we don't stand on this hill and fight then the GOP might as well pack it in. I think Ted Cruz is great and wish we had dozens more like him in the senate.Please point out where I stated I'm convinced this bill should become law?
Well, we'll see. As with everything else, if the GOP somehow comes out of this shutdown intact, it will be because of Ted Cruz.If they lose the House next year, it will be time to flee the country. One-party Democrat rule was exactly how we got into this mess in the first place.
If they crash and burn and lose the House next year, Cruz will be absolved of any blame whatsoever.
It's great to be a Tea Party God.
Please point out where I stated I'm convinced this bill should become law?
FYI the bill is already law. The issue is the annual budget.
I'm convinced the GOP was lured into doing what Obama and the dems want, namely setting the table for the 2014 midterms.
If they lose the House next year, it will be time to flee the country. One-party Democrat rule was exactly how we got into this mess in the first place.
I don't think the Republicans will lose the House, but they could very well be blowing their chance at taking the Senate.
But that doesn't matter to the Tea Party. NOW is all they care about. For some reason Ted Cruz and his followers think they can force Obama to gut the only achievement of his presidency.
The key to get rid of Obama Care is win in 2014 and 2016.
And something you, Sink, TS refuse to face is 2014 and especially 2016 is TOO LATE! This will collapse, it was designed to collapse, but they are already collapsing the PRIVATE insurance sector and this is designed to result in a single payer system. I take it the few of you pushing this actually think a single payer is good... trust me... it IS NOT.
I take it the few of you pushing this actually think a single payer is good... trust me... it IS NOT.
Somebody is "pushing this" because they disagree with you over tactics?
I don't think the Republicans will lose the House, but they could very well be blowing their chance at taking the Senate.
But that doesn't matter to the Tea Party. NOW is all they care about. For some reason Ted Cruz and his followers think they can force Obama to gut the only achievement of his presidency.
Like I said, you are satisfied to see us morph into a single payer socialist healthcare system and have every aspect of our lives controlled by Michelle O and her buddies.
Somebody is "pushing this" because they disagree with you over tactics?
Hmmm, obeisance and currying favor do oh so much more to advance one's long-term objectives.
So how do we stop it? How do we stop the implementation of Obamacare when the man it's named after can veto any attempt to stop it?
There's no pixie dust in real life, or a vain hope that people will, all of a sudden, decide to storm the White House and demand the Obamacare be repealed.
How do we stop it?
So how do we stop it? How do we stop the implementation of Obamacare when the man it's named after can veto any attempt to stop it?
There's no pixie dust in real life, or a vain hope that people will, all of a sudden, decide to storm the White House and demand the Obamacare be repealed.
How do we stop it?
So how do we stop it? How do we stop the implementation of Obamacare when the man it's named after can veto any attempt to stop it?
There's no pixie dust in real life, or a vain hope that people will, all of a sudden, decide to storm the White House and demand the Obamacare be repealed.
How do we stop it?
That's what I'd like you to answer.
If opposing it in Congress, as the American people want, is not what you desire, what is?
Just let it destroy our healthcare system and economy?
What's your solution, sinkspur?
Two ways: either outright repealing it, or starving it of money. Obama can veto a bill that affirmatively purports to repeal Obastardcare, and look good for it; if he continually vetoes bills just because they don't contain funding for this obamination, he doesn't look so good, in fact, he looks like an obstructionist. Therefore, at this point in time defunding may actually be a better strategy than doing nothing - sitting on the sidelines, with your hands under your thighs, and whispering longingly of that day in the far-off future when you'll finally, finally, have the votes and the President needed to repeal Obastardcare, but in the meantime you're not going to lift a finger to do anything about the implementation of it.
How're your hands feeling under your thighs?
You do not stop it by tearing down the people who are trying to actually DO something. You stop it by standing behind the GOP and having their back in this fight for starters.
I asked the question. You first.
Two ways: either outright repealing it, or starving it of money. Obama can veto a bill that affirmatively purports to repeal Obastardcare, and look good for it; if he continually vetoes bills just because they don't contain funding for this obamination, he doesn't look so good, in fact, he looks like an obstructionist. Therefore, at this point in time defunding may actually be a better strategy than doing nothing - sitting on the sidelines, with your hands under your thighs, and whispering longingly of that day in the far-off future when you'll finally, finally, have the votes and the President needed to repeal Obastardcare, but in the meantime you're not going to lift a finger to do anything about the implementation of it.
How're your hands feeling under your thighs?
One problem. There's no poll that supports defunding Obamacare. Obama knows it. That's why he will veto any attempt to do it.
Any other ideas?
I've already said that I support Cruz and his effort to defund this monstrosity.
You've only said that what he's doing is pointless.
What do you suggest we do, besides hoping that some day we get power back?
How's that working out for you? Supporting Cruz's efforts?
We can't defund it or delay it. My suggestion is that we let it play out and reveal itself to be the disaster it is.
If our side didn't do stupid stuff like shutdown the government, we might keep the focus on the rocky rollout of Obamacare and all its problems. Instead, the media has made today all about the shutdown.
One problem. There's no poll that supports defunding Obamacare. Obama knows it. That's why he will veto any attempt to do it.
Any other ideas?
How's that working out for you? Supporting Cruz's efforts?
We can't defund it or delay it. My suggestion is that we let it play out and reveal itself to be the disaster it is.
If our side didn't do stupid stuff like shutdown the government, we might keep the focus on the rocky rollout of Obamacare and all its problems. Instead, the media has made today all about the shutdown.
Ahh, and there are polls showing overwhelming support for it?
Furthermore, getting him to veto any attempt to fund the government that does not include funding for Obastardcare is precisely the point - if the republicans keep offering up proposals to fund the various "important" - but not "essential" - parts of the federal government and Obama keeps knocking them down, then it becomes quite clear that the only obstructionist in the room is Obama, not the republicans; it becomes obvious that the only person denying Americans their personal pet "bennies" from the federal government is Obama, not the republicans. That shifts the blame for the shutdown to Obama and the democrats or, more precisely, it lets them take ownership of the shutdown all by themselves.
In other words, getting Obastard to veto any appropriations bill for any part of the federal leviathan that does not include funding for Obastardcare is part of the point of this exercise, not a lamentable mistake from this exercise.
And that involves more than just some misbegotten focus on "NOW;" it involves framing the discussion for 2014 and beyond and attempting to set the terms of debate by letting the democrats prove themselves to be the hyper-partisan obstructionists.
OKay. Well, good luck with that. Obama has the bully pulpit and we don't.
Who shut down the government? Apparently you've been inhabiting some bizarro alternate reality. The republicans have offered up all sorts of funding measures, comprehensive as well as piece-meal, and all of them have been shot down by Reid and the democrats for one sole reason: none of them provides funding for Obastardcare. Sorry, but in this reality it's Reid, Obama, and the democrats who have shut down the government and you ill-serve yourself and every other republican by playing into the hands of the democrats and repeating the lie that it was the republicans who shut down the government.
If our side didn't do stupid stuff like shutdown the government
Surprised? Really? Just another of his Liberal talking points.
Yes. Of course. I'll wait for the poll that confirms that the American public believes Obama and Reid have shut down the government.
It doesn't matter what I think, only what the voters think.
So then, you have no solution.
I figured that.
So, you believe we should never do the right thing because the media lies?
I swear Sink... you are so in the tank for Democrat talking points it's beyond the pale.
So, you believe we should never do the right thing because the media lies?
The GOP House has voted 41 times to repeal Obamacare. That's the right thing. I agree it's the right thing.
Has Obamacare been repealed?
How's following Ted Cruz workin' out for you? Just how is this going to end, Rap?
I'm still waiting for yours. I asked the question originally.
My solution is to let Obamacare's implementation fail and anger the public so much that Republicans take the Senate, pick up more seats in the House, and hang Obamacare around Hillary's neck so that the GOP owns the Presidency and the Congress in 2016.
That's as realistic as hoping that Obama will kill Obamacare.
The GOP House has voted 41 times to repeal Obamacare. That's the right thing. I agree it's the right thing.
Has Obamacare been repealed?
Rap. Here it is. The only purpose for the back/forth of this thread is to focus attention on shitstir, I mean sinkspur. Because he brings nothing to this forum but division, with no real alternative working solution. Much like the rats' strategery; divide and conquer.
and it was only 10% of the population that carried the day and the issue forth in the Revolution. Without that 10% we'd be subject to the crown.
and it was only 10% of the population that carried the day and the issue forth in the Revolution. Without that 10% we'd be subject to the crown.
You're on ignore, jerkweed. Just exactly what does your trash talk add to the discussion?
Are you still in high school?
You're on ignore, jerkweed. Just exactly what does your trash talk add to the discussion?
Are you still in high school?
OKay. Well, good luck with that. Obama has the bully pulpit and we don't.
And what does your dismissive, pointless talk contribute to the discussion.
Other than "wait," you have given NO solutions to the problem we face with the destruction of our nation.
How does that contribute to anything?
Waiting till Obamacare falls on its face could take years, and by that time, America could well be taken down with Obamacare.
I'm beginning to think you don't know what's in the bill..........
Really? I thought your panties were in such a twist precisely because Cruz had taken over the bully pulpit. You need to get your stories straight.
So tell me what this has to do with anything. What's your solution to the shutdown?
And what does your dismissive, pointless talk contribute to the discussion.
Other than "wait," you have given NO solutions to the problem we face with the destruction of our nation.
How does that contribute to anything?
Waiting till Obamacare falls on its face could take years, and by that time, America could well be taken down with Obamacare.
I'm beginning to think you don't know what's in the bill..........
I've read the entire thread. Gimme a break....He brings a helluva lot to the discussion.
Otherwise this would have been just another OORAH thread pumping up Cruz.
And I thought that's NOT what we're here for....
Serious. Exactly what is his approach/strategy/solution proposed herein. I swear I missed it.
He told you that the way there is to allow the full weight of it to come down on the people....hold the House and WIN the Senate....politically castrate Obama and starve/repeal Obamacare in 2016....destroying Hillary's chances in the process.
He said that giving Obama the bully pulpit daily creating a negative media image of Republicans in the House....the extremists...puts 2014 in jeopardy.
Only 3% were active combatants in the American Revolution. Hence the symbolAnd during WWII 10% of the population wound up serving in uniform, in some manner.(http://i1.wp.com/www.sovereigntycolorado.com/gold.jpg)l
And during WWII 10% of the population wound up serving in uniform, in some manner.
It takes military 10 support personnel for one combatant. That would equate to 1% active combatants.
Like I said, you are satisfied to see us morph into a single payer socialist healthcare system and have every aspect of our lives controlled by Michelle O and her buddies.You've broken my cover. I'm a "sleeper" owing allegiance to Michelle O and her buddies.
You've broken my cover. I'm a "sleeper" owing allegiance to Michelle O and her buddies.
I want them to control every aspect of our lives. You should go into mindreading.
The frustration of not holding enough political power with less than a veto proof majority in one legislative chamber is something we all share.
Our reactions to this range widely, from emotional to rational.
Rational is out of fashion here now. Emotional seems to rule the day here now.
If that continues, I also see Hillary 59%, Cruz 39% all other 2% (or more optimistically Hillary 54% Cruz 44% all other 2%)
So how do we stop it? How do we stop the implementation of Obamacare when the man it's named after can veto any attempt to stop it?
There's no pixie dust in real life, or a vain hope that people will, all of a sudden, decide to storm the White House and demand the Obamacare be repealed.
How do we stop it?
I've laid out my solution. You don't like it, so you ignore it.
Good night, lady.
I've read the entire thread. Gimme a break....He brings a helluva lot to the discussion.
Otherwise this would have been just another OORAH thread pumping up Cruz.
And I thought that's NOT what we're here for....