The Briefing Room
General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: mystery-ak on January 24, 2019, 04:21:32 pm
-
Either bored or because he was bluffing, Trump blinks on State of the Union
by Philip Wegmann
| January 24, 2019 11:06 AM
State of the Unions are seldom this melodramatic. The invitation of President Trump, the subsequent disinvitation by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and the posturing in between dominated a week’s worth of news only to end late Wednesday night.
“As the Shutdown was going on, Nancy Pelosi asked me to give the State of the Union Address. I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the Shutdown, suggesting a later date. This is her prerogative -- I will do the Address when the Shutdown is over,†Trump tweeted at 11:12 p.m. when much of the East Coast was doubtless headed to bed.
“I am not looking for an alternative venue for the SOTU Address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the House Chamber. I look forward to giving a ‘great’ State of the Union Address in the near future!,†the president continued.
His supporters had insisted a strategic Trump was playing chess and a bumbling Pelosi, checkers. Last night the president seemed to pack away the board altogether.
more
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/either-bored-or-because-he-was-bluffing-trump-blinks-on-state-of-the-union (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/either-bored-or-because-he-was-bluffing-trump-blinks-on-state-of-the-union)
-
He underestimated Pelosi and he caved....
-
Geez. The left is dancing & whooping like Sitting Bull after the Little Bighorn all because Trump agreed to wait until after the shutdown for the SOU.
Since they have their "victory" maybe we can get on with life now? I doubt it.
-
Read the GD title of this article and tell me they aren't overreaching.
Thank God the fight for independence wasn't left to us --- we'd have collapsed like an airless balloon at the first sign of trouble or the first disappointment.
Conservatives --- redefining courage downward for generations. It's just what they do.
-
A deal isn’t completed until the ink is dry. With every move that Trump makes there’s always a rush to judgment around here.
I like to wait for countermoves while the game plays out or a settlement is reached or there’s a walk away and game over.
-
He underestimated Pelosi and he caved....
It's all about The Wall and not the stupid SOTU.
-
When is the speech?
What will he say?
-
When is the speech?
What will he say?
"The State of the Union is great.....NEXT!"
-
@mystery-ak
He underestimated Pelosi and he caved....
I wouldn't call it "caving" at this point (although I might call it "spelunking" inside Pelosi's base of support). Conceding something that means relatively little in the larger picture is just a way of negotiating to win.
These are not normal negotiations, of course, but a thoroughly nasty struggle for power. I don't think Pelosi is very good at this. (For that matter, I don't think many of us TBR members would be very good at it, either.) In any case, Trump just seems to be putting even more pressure on Pelosi to end the shutdown from her side of the mess. (A lot of folks do want to hear the SOTU address--including more than a few people who aren't committed Trumpers.)
Maybe POTUS is persuaded that acquiescing to Pelosi's thinly veiled, anti-democratic bullying--using a legal but unseemly overreach for power--against a duly elected Chief Executive of the Republic will not quickly end the shutdown. If that is what Trump is thinking and if he's correct about that, then he will come out on top in the overall fight, because he will have demonstrated statesmanlike reasonableness--and by that posture convinced all but the most stupid Americans that Pelosi is a political harlot who would dare to try to prevent Trump from communicating effectually with the electorate about the wall controversy. (How's that for Democracy in action?) Of course, Trump will still wind up giving the bombshell SOTU speech over her continuing objections--and he will still build the wall over her continuing objections. And Pelosi's continuing obstruction of the construction will make the use of the military to build the wall look righteous indeed. (That will be important and even decisive in the looming court fight.)
If Pelosi does surprise us and "cave" with respect to the border wall, Trump will still give the dreaded SOTU address soon enough anyway (and he will have gotten his wall, of course).
So, I don't see how President Trump can lose in the overall fight if he is reasonably careful from here on (and especially careful to avoid getting assassinated before he can accomplish either objective).
-
He underestimated Pelosi and he caved....
Maybe he is counting on the perception that Pelosi is just doing more of what Democrats do... obstructionism... as the reason why he didn't give the SOTU on schedule. He is probably relying on his tweets to inform the public... but most Americans don't 'do' Twitter. So the end result will, I think, turn out to be a negative one for Trump, positive for Pelosi. Sucks.
-
Its revealing that in her statement today Pelosi, after wrestling with Trump to the mat on the SOU, "wins" then immediately declares how unimportant the issue is in the greater scheme of things and how glad she is to be done with it.
If Trump is one fifth as savvy as some say he is, he'll realize how petulant and vindictive this woman is, and how easy it will be to make her even less popular with the public than she already is.
-
Funny how so many folks are just aghast at the idea that Trump might take the high road.
This SOTU flap is the pettiest of the petty. Trump looks good this morning, and Pelosi looks bad - churlish and small.
Trump has also offered to trade wall funding for a three-year extension of status for the Dreamers, as well as standing invite for weekly meetings at the White House to address immigration. Pelosi? She said no before the President could even announce his proposal.
The best way to encourage cracks in the Democratic wall is to take the high road. When he finally gets to give the SOTU - in the majestic setting of the House chamber where it belongs - he will have the time and the opportunity to lay into the Democrats on all fronts. And it will arrive in citizens' homes without the filter of the mainstream media.
-
Its revealing that in her statement today Pelosi, after wrestling with Trump to the mat on the SOU, after "winning" goes on to declare how meaningless the issue is in the greater scheme of things.
She is merely, once again and as usual, revealing her blatant elitism.... in her presumptious speaking for the rest of America that the SOTU is "meaningless". Goes right along with her crack about "crumbs". So out of touch with real, hard-working Americans ....it's hard to believe someone like her is in a position of such power. A sad reality of what these leftists have already 'fundamentally transformed' America into.
-
She is merely, once again and as usual, revealing her blatant elitism.... in her presumptious speaking for the rest of America that the SOTU is "meaningless". Goes right along with her crack about "crumbs". So out of touch with real, hard-working Americans ....it's hard to believe someone like her is in a position of such power. A sad reality of what these leftists have already 'fundamentally transformed' America into.
Typical behavior of someone, usually someone with anger management or control issues, losing it in a dispute over something insignificant then afterwards tries to recover their dignity by laughing the whole matter off. Its pretty transparent.
After they 'win' of course. Such people NEVER compromise or back down. Trump should use this to his advantage.
-
Typical behavior of someone, usually someone with anger management or control issues, losing it in a dispute over something insignificant then afterwards tries to recover their dignity by laughing the whole matter off. Its pretty transparent.
Such people NEVER compromise or back down. Trump should use this to his advantage.
Agreed.
-
“I am not looking for an alternative venue for the SOTU Address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the House Chamber. I look forward to giving a ‘great’ State of the Union Address in the near future!,†the president continued.
Yeah, a great history going all the way back to LBJ.
I stand by my earlier suggestion: Release the SOTU in a 56-part Tweet, or on whitehouse.gov. If he doesn't give a speech, then there is no requirement for a rebuttal speech either.
There is no way to sugar-coat this: Trump caved to Pelosi, and the Leftists are correct to gloat.
-
Funny how so many folks are just aghast at the idea that Trump might take the high road.
This SOTU flap is the pettiest of the petty. Trump looks good this morning, and Pelosi looks bad - churlish and small.
I agree. See my #8 for my own dissection of the SOTU versus Wall mess.
-
She is merely, once again and as usual, revealing her blatant elitism.... in her presumptious speaking for the rest of America that the SOTU is "meaningless". Goes right along with her crack about "crumbs". So out of touch with real, hard-working Americans ....it's hard to believe someone like her is in a position of such power. A sad reality of what these leftists have already 'fundamentally transformed' America into.
She also presumes to speak for every Democrat legislator. And a few are starting to grumble – as Rush pointed out last hour.
Rush also made a point to remind his listeners that the hate-Trump media won’t give us the skinny on the fractures developing within the Democratic Party, so the public isn’t getting a full picture of who’s strong, who’s weak and who’s actually winning.
-
Bored or bluffing aren't the only possibilities here.
-
She also presumes to speak for every Democrat legislator. And a few are starting to grumble – as Rush pointed out last hour.
Rush also made a point to remind his listeners that the hate-Trump media won’t give us the skinny on the fractures developing within the Democratic Party, so the public isn’t getting a full picture of who’s strong, who’s weak and who’s actually winning.
True.
-
Yeah, a great history going all the way back to LBJ.
I stand by my earlier suggestion: Release the SOTU in a 56-part Tweet, or on whitehouse.gov. If he doesn't give a speech, then there is no requirement for a rebuttal speech either.
There is no way to sugar-coat this: Trump caved to Pelosi, and the Leftists are correct to gloat.
Did Trump cave to Pelosi on the issue of where and when to give the SOU? Yes.
Will it matter at all in the long run? Probably not.
-
Did Trump cave to Pelosi on the issue of where and when to give the SOU? Yes.
Will it matter at all in the long run? Probably not.
Agreed on the first, jury is still out on the second. Depends on how the SOTU gets delivered (as required in the Constitution).
-
Did Trump cave to Pelosi on the issue of where and when to give the SOU? Yes.
Willl it matter at all in the long run? Probably not.
To make a really, really bad concession in a negotiation merely to chalk up a "win" in the larger matter of the negotiation is to lose, not win. However, making an ultimately inconsequential concession might very well be a very shrewd tactic for winning everything. An inconsequential concession can actually strengthen one's overall position quite a lot, as I suggested in #8.
In that case, I would not use the colorful word "cave"--which only expresses our disappointment that Trump is daring to do what the media likes to style as "blinking." Heck, I think he is just batting his eyes at Lovely Nancy. I think Trump is probably very good at this junk. And yeah, I think Nancy is way over her head on everything nowadays.
-
When is the speech?
What will he say?
What will he say? --- Anything he wants. He will have paid for the microphone, the cameras and the audience.
But one thing Donald Trump does better than anyone who'll be in that room is tell the backstory of any given news event. At rallies he started this with: "Okay, here's the story ….." and the crowds would hang on his every word.
I expect to hear a variation of this "backstory routine" about the shutdown during the SOTU address, including reliving the two times Nancy Pelosi voted not to pay furloughed government workers. I'm sure there's a lot we don't know --- yet. And, the POTUS will do this with Pelosi sitting behind him. happy77
He'll end this section of his speech with some kind of dual meaning pat on the back to Pelosi and move on to successes and future plans like she is lint on his lapel.
And the President will do all of this in front of the largest SOTH audience in history.
-
To make a really, really bad concession in a negotiation merely to chalk up a "win" in the larger matter of the negotiation is to lose, not win. However, making an ultimately inconsequential concession might very well be a very shrewd tactic for winning everything. An inconsequential concession can actually strengthen one's overall position quite a lot, as I suggested in #8.
In that case, I would not use the colorful word "cave"--which only expresses our disappointment that Trump is daring to do what the media likes to style as "blinking." Heck, I think he is just batting his eyes at Lovely Nancy. I think Trump is probably very good at this junk. And yeah, I think Nancy is way over her head on everything nowadays.
The one thing they tell you over and over in Contract Negotiation 101 is NEVER piss off your counterpart to the point they become emotionally invested and will not agree to give you anything. If that means making a concession here or there then go ahead as long as you keep your eye on what it is you intend to ultimately get out of the deal.
-
To make a really, really bad concession in a negotiation merely to chalk up a "win" in the larger matter of the negotiation is to lose, not win. However, making an ultimately inconsequential concession might very well be a very shrewd tactic for winning everything. An inconsequential concession can actually strengthen one's overall position quite a lot, as I suggested in #8.
In that case, I would not use the colorful word "cave"--which only expresses our disappointment that Trump is daring to do what the media likes to style as "blinking." Heck, I think he is just batting his eyes at Lovely Nancy. I think Trump is probably very good at this junk. And yeah, I think Nancy is way over her head on everything nowadays.
If he had not said, "...until after the government is reopened" it would have been shrewd. That phrase makes it a cave, because that's word-for-word what Pelosi has been demanding. Nice way to pull the rug out from under your base, Mr. President.
-
The one thing they tell you over and over in Contract Negotiation 101 is NEVER piss off your counterpart to the point they become emotionally invested and will not agree to give you anything. If that means making a concession here or there then go ahead as long as you keep your eye on what it is you intend to ultimately get out of the deal.
So...Pelosi and Schumer saying "Not one dollar for a wall" should not piss us off?
-
**nononono*
-
The one thing they tell you over and over in Contract Negotiation 101 is NEVER piss off your counterpart to the point they become emotionally invested and will not agree to give you anything. If that means making a concession here or there then go ahead as long as you keep your eye on what it is you intend to ultimately get out of the deal.
If that was his thinking, then he probably should have thought about that before he pulled her plane out from under her for her trip to Brussels/Egypt/Afghanistan last week.
-
If he had not said, "...until after the government is reopened" it would have been shrewd. That phrase makes it a cave, because that's word-for-word what Pelosi has been demanding. Nice way to pull the rug out from under your base, Mr. President.
All he has to do is start building the wall with the Corps of Engineers [likely his plan all along] and simultaneously tell McConnell to go ahead and send him the infamous bill that has no funding for the wall--and then use the SOTU address to present the done deal to the American people.
I think Trump will have choice words for the Dems in the SOTU speech. I believe that the scenario that I have outlined will be the worst of worst cases for the Dems. The Dems will get no DACA concessions and will look really bad to an ever-growing number of people.:2popcorn:
-
All he has to do is start building the wall with the Corps of Engineers [likely his plan all along] and simultaneously tell McConnell to go ahead and send him the infamous bill that has no funding for the wall--and then use the SOTU address to present the done deal to the American people.
I think Trump will have choice words for the Dems in the SOTU speech. I believe that the scenario that I have outlined will be the worst of worst cases for the Dems. The Dems will get no DACA concessions and will look really bad to an ever-growing number of people.:2popcorn:
The game ain't over yet. Move over...
:2popcorn:
-
All he has to do is start building the wall with the Corps of Engineers [likely his plan all along] and simultaneously tell McConnell to go ahead and send him the infamous bill that has no funding for the wall--and then use the SOTU address to present the done deal to the American people.
I think Trump will have choice words for the Dems in the SOTU speech. I believe that the scenario that I have outlined will be the worst of worst cases for the Dems. The Dems will get no DACA concessions and will look really bad to an ever-growing number of people.:2popcorn:
Hey, doc.... I would like to think that is what's gonna happen. Thanks for the mood uplift! happy77
-
He underestimated Pelosi and he caved....
YUP.
-
So...Pelosi and Schumer saying "Not one dollar for a wall" should not piss us off?
I understand the point you’re making. But you must remember Pelosi and Schumer are negotiating from decades in government. They haven’t had experience negotiating against a business entrepreneur. There’s a qualitative difference.
Besides, Nancy sucks at this game.
-
I understand the point you’re making. But you must remember Pelosi and Schumer are negotiating from decades in government. They haven’t had experience negotiating against a business entrepreneur. There’s a qualitative difference.
Besides, Nancy sucks at this game.
For somebody who sucks at this game she sure looks pretty good at it today. But...it's still not over so we'll see. If he sheepishly gives the SOTU after not getting the funding for wall, he'll look like the loser all the way to his loss in 2020. He will not succeed in building it by handing it off to the Army Corps of Engineers because it will be stopped in the Courts.
-
He underestimated Pelosi and he caved....
Do you know this man at all @mystery-ak ? You're reacting to the President as you would react to every other politician. We both know this has never been right. :laugh:
-
Do you know this man at all @mystery-ak ? You're reacting to the President as you would react to every other politician. We both know this has never been right. :laugh:
Let's just see how it turns out before we try to spin this as a Trump victory.
-
Do you know this man at all @mystery-ak ? You're reacting to the President as you would react to every other politician. We both know this has never been right. :laugh:
Sorry that's the way I see it...Nancy just said there will be no counter offer..she is not budging...so that leaves Trump to make a move
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,349013.msg1898556/topicseen.html#msg1898556 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,349013.msg1898556/topicseen.html#msg1898556)
-
Sorry that's the way I see it...Nancy just said there will be no counter offer..she is not budging...so that leaves Trump to make a move
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,349013.msg1898556/topicseen.html#msg1898556 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,349013.msg1898556/topicseen.html#msg1898556)
I don't think Trump expects a counteroffer, either. I think that is how he is going to crush her.
-
Sorry that's the way I see it...
No need to apologize @mystery-ak …. Based on all I've witnessed through these past 3 years, I'm just waiting for the "surprise" ending. happy77
-
I don't think Trump expects a counteroffer, either. I think that is how he is going to crush her.
Scout: "I've been to the Front, Sir, and there are millions of them! On all three sides!"
General: "That means we've got them right where we want them. They're surrounded!"
:whistle:
-
No need to apologize @mystery-ak …. Based on all I've witnessed through these past 3 years, I'm just waiting for the "surprise" ending. happy77
You mean like the budget last year? I'm still surprised. :patriot:
-
So...Pelosi and Schumer saying "Not one dollar for a wall" should not piss us off?
Sure it should. But my assumption being Trump wants some sort of positive outcome for himself/us it shouldn't dictate his actions.
A boxer who starts windmilling at his opponent the first time he gets popped in the nose will not win the bout.
BTW if Trump agrees to a CR I'll know my analysis is a pile of crap.
-
Great Leaders have always been able to radiate fear in their adversaries/enemies;
a trait the Greeks and Romans considered a prerequisite.
Trump may be many things but most emphatically he is NOT a great leader and the
left knows this in their very bones which is why they abuse him daily and laugh about it.
-
Sure it should. But my assumption being Trump wants some sort of positive outcome for himself/us it shouldn't dictate his actions.
A boxer who starts windmilling at his opponent the first time he gets popped in the nose will not win the bout.
BTW if Trump agrees to a CR I'll know my analysis is a pile of crap.
I assume my analysis is a pile of crap from the start, then I can be pleasantly surprised when it turns out I was correct...an idiot savant at work. 888mouth
-
Great Leaders have always been able to radiate fear in their adversaries/enemies;
a trait the Greeks and Romans considered a prerequisite.
Trump may be many things but most emphatically he is NOT a great leader and the
left knows this in their very bones which is why they abuse him daily and laugh about it.
The leftists may also be whistling past the graveyard. It's hard to tell the difference.
-
Yeah, a great history going all the way back to LBJ.
I stand by my earlier suggestion: Release the SOTU in a 56-part Tweet, or on whitehouse.gov. If he doesn't give a speech, then there is no requirement for a rebuttal speech either.
There is no way to sugar-coat this: Trump caved to Pelosi, and the Leftists are correct to gloat.
I have made a similar suggestion elsewhere on this board. I'm sure others in positions of real influence with Trump must have made the same suggestion, to him. My belief is that his narcissism craves the spotlight and show so much that he refuses to end this particular part of the stand off by delivering a SOTU in any manner other than the now-traditional address to a joint session.
Trump lost this round. To suggest otherwise is to believe that giving up a touchdown is part of a winning team's game plan.
And surely we all realize the "progressive" wing of the Democrat party will insist this time next year that Nancy should again refuse to have the SOTU in the House chamber. The precedent is now established; naughty boy Trump must be denied the dignity of the office to which he was duly elected.
-
I have made a similar suggestion elsewhere on this board. I'm sure others in positions of real influence with Trump must have made the same suggestion, to him. My belief is that his narcissism craves the spotlight and show so much that he refuses to end this particular part of the stand off by delivering a SOTU in any manner other than the now-traditional address to a joint session.
Trump lost this round. To suggest otherwise is to believe that giving up a touchdown is part of a winning team's game plan.
And surely we all realize the "progressive" wing of the Democrat party will insist this time next year that Nancy should again refuse to have the SOTU in the House chamber. The precedent is now established; naughty boy Trump must be denied the dignity of the office to which he was duly elected.
I don't see her ever allowing him a speech in the House now, even if the "shutdown" is over. She'll concoct another excuse. That's how bad this cave-in is. The loss is complete.
It's a pity he can't seem to live without doing a speech. It gives Pelosi a hammer he'll get a steady diet of now.
-
I don't see her ever allowing him a speech in the House now, even if the "shutdown" is over. She'll concoct another excuse. That's how bad this cave-in is. The loss is complete.
It's a pity he can't seem to live without doing a speech. It gives Pelosi a hammer he'll get a steady diet of now.
I agree completely. The master negotiator, the ninja of flying, invisible, ninth-level stealth jedi chess just sacrificed the long game to his own ego.
-
I agree completely. The master negotiator, the ninja of flying, invisible, ninth-level stealth jedi chess just sacrificed the long game to his own ego.
YUP.
-
Trump lost this round. To suggest otherwise is to believe that giving up a touchdown is part of a winning team's game plan.
I note with interest your mixing of metaphors. You started off by characterizing the fight as a boxing match; that is perhaps (?) appropriate. But I think that jumping immediately to a football metaphor is a mistake. Why? Well, you pointed out (correctly) that giving up a touchdown is not a strategy for winning a football game. But this mess we're watching from the safety of home is not a mere game of violence--nor is a boxing match, for that matter.
The struggle between Trump and Pelosi is a knock-down, drag-out contest of a bloody mess of shrewdness, strength, timing, and endurance--not to mention unbridled one-on-one hostility. Both contestants are trying not to get beaten to death. But the ability to take punches and survive at the cost of a round--and the willingness to take those punches over the short term--does happen to be part of a well-recognized strategy for setting up a devastating comeback to win a bout.
Just be patient. I honestly believe Trump knows what he is doing. And I honestly believe most people don't.
-
If he would just give the state of the union as required by the constitution some place else other than the house it would cut the house out of it entirely.
All the jeers, camera posing and virtue signalling with Pelosi holding the gavel behind the President in front of all the cameras would be gone. Call their bluff. Take them out of the spot light. And how can Pelosi offer a rebuttal from the house if the house was unable to open its doors to the President?
Play hardball and make them pay.
-
I note with interest your mixing of metaphors. You started off by characterizing the fight as a boxing match; that is perhaps (?) appropriate. But I think that jumping immediately to a football metaphor is a mistake. Why? Well, you pointed out (correctly) that giving up a touchdown is not a strategy for winning a football game. But this mess we're watching from the safety of home is not a mere game of violence--nor is a boxing match, for that matter.
The struggle between Trump and Pelosi is a knock-down, drag-out contest of a bloody mess of shrewdness, strength, timing, and endurance--not to mention unbridled one-on-one hostility. Both contestants are trying not to get beaten to death. But the ability to take punches and survive at the cost of a round--and the willingness to take those punches over the short term--does happen to be part of a well-recognized strategy for setting up a devastating comeback to win a bout.
Just be patient. I honestly believe Trump knows what he is doing. And I honestly believe most people don't.
Good call out on the mixed metaphors @the_doc. I can't honestly claim to have thought about the mixing, and even if I had, you are certainly correct that metaphors are of limited validity.
I would like to see a devastating come-back from POTUS, but I'm afraid I don't have that much confidence in Trump; I *don't* think he knows what he is doing. Honed street fighting instincts, while certainly valuable and beyond the grasp of the Republican establishment, do not compensate for the weakness that comes with narcissism.
I think @DB, immediately between our comments here, has it exactly right. Trump really doesn't need the House chamber. If he actually *were* the alpha male he pretends to be he would recognize that.
-
Trump really doesn't need the House chamber. If he actually *were* the alpha male he pretends to be he would recognize that.
It's not that simple. Trump could give the speech somewhere else, but then the story becomes that somewhere else, and how Pelosi forced him there.
Trump wants everyone to listen to what he has to say in the speech. That will be impossible if the speech takes place in the context of a slapping match.
-
@HoustonSam
@DB
@Jazzhead
@mystery-ak
If he would just give the state of the union as required by the constitution some place else other than the house it would cut the house out of it entirely.
The problem with this is that it would cut out almost all of the American viewership. That's Trump's one and only concern at this time.
Bill O'Reilly revealed on the radio today that the only reason why Trump agreed to wait to give the SOTU speech until after the government shutdown is the fact that all of the (MSM?) networks flatly refused to televise the speech if delivered anywhere other than the Capitol. That "anywhere" apparently rules out even the Oval Office.
As I have said repeatedly, Trump is determined to deliver a bombshell SOTU speech that will be viewed by the highest possible number of Americans. This is precisely why Pelosi has used politically unprecedented tricks to try to force Trump not to present the SOTU as a speech, but as a letter to Congress (which is all that the Constitution actually requires, in fact). The MSM is in collusion with the Dems in this politically nasty effort. (They would, of course, neglect to cover anything really important in a written SOTU address.) Ted Cruz has stated publicly that Pelosi is badly frightened by the prospect of letting Trump speak directly to the American people. That's all the more reason for Trump to wait until he can demand that Pelosi re-open the Capitol to him--with TV cameras and all.)
I suspect that the only thing that surprised Trump in the most recent round of the fight was the fact that the MSM would dare to refuse airing the SOTU address merely on the flimsy excuse that it was delivered somewhere other than the Capitol. (Trump has not underestimated the Dems. But I think that even Trump "misunderestimated" the MSM's willingness to show so clearly its incredibly unethical, incredibly crooked hand in the whole mess. [I confess that the MSM surprised even me in this regard--but I'm actually pleased by their show of their own political insanity.])
Yeah, the MSM really is one of America's biggest enemies. No doubt about it. And I believe Trump will make sure that a rapidly growing number of people realize this through recent developments. I believe he will make the MSM pay dearly for their flagrantly un-American, anti-democratic behavior. I believe that signing off on a CR that does not fund the wall, per se, and then immediately announcing that the military is now clearly authorized to build it--authorized by the very dereliction of the crooked Progressives in Congress and the MSM--will win the overall battle for Trump.
Remember: Trump doesn't need to win a knockout or even a knockdown with every move in the fight. He just needs to land the last devastating punch in the fight. (That won't happen until the military prosecutions begin--which may very well get moved up on Trump's schedule now. Prosecuting top FBI officials and [then?] the Clintons will open up the most awful Pandora's box in American history--which mess will also snare our amazingly evil MSM.)
Right now, I see everything as proceeding per Trump's plan--with the normal fits and starts (and deceptions) of war. I am as optimistic as ever. (A lot of anti-Trumpers have called Trump an idiot. Well, he's a strangely crass dude, not at all likeable for a lot of "more conspicuously decent" folks, but he seems to be very good in these fights. [That's why the Dems are surely desperate to see him murdered--hopefully along with Pence, thereby making Pelosi our POTUS, of course. Under these deadly circumstances, we'd better come together behind our duly elected President Trump])
-
I tend not to support people who lied to me about their #1 promise made to get elected. :shrug:
-
I agree completely. The master negotiator, the ninja of flying, invisible, ninth-level stealth jedi chess just sacrificed the long game to his own ego.
-----------------------------------
On the mark as Trump, absorbed in his narcissism,
craves msm attention even when they're urinating on him.
-
I tend not to support people who lied to me about their #1 promise made to get elected. :shrug:
Which campaign lie are you talking about? (Just curious. He has "flubbed" on more than one promise.)
-
Which campaign lie are you talking about? (Just curious. He has "flubbed" on more than one promise.)
I'm at a bit of a loss. I haven't met a politician who isn't willing to renege on his/her #1 promise. (I've known a lot of them, and it's their nature to renege on promises.)
In this case, the promise I wanted delivered the most was the border wall because I live in AZ and had a BIL murdered here because of the lack of a wall. It's a local issue for me. Now, it's never going to happen. It won't get through Congress now, and if the President goes with a declaration of an "emergency" to get it done it will be tied up in the courts for years, well past the 2020 Election.
-
I'm at a bit of a loss. I haven't met a politician who isn't willing to renege on his/her #1 promise. (I've known a lot of them, and it's their nature to renege on promises.)
In this case, the promise I wanted delivered the most was the border wall because I live in AZ and had a BIL murdered here because of the lack of a wall. It's a local issue for me. Now, it's never going to happen. It won't get through Congress now, and if the President goes with a declaration of an "emergency" to get it done it will be tied up in the courts for years, well past the 2020 Election.
I understand your bitterness, and I'm not surprised that it explains your pessimism even if I am not personally so pessimistic as you are. I also understand that your bitterness darkly colors your language, but I think it's a bit too pejorative to style President Trump's failure to get the wall built as proof that he was lying about his intentions during the campaign. He's still working on it. He has to be very, very careful negotiating the legal minefield.
(I'm not sure that even loveable, handsome, super-brilliant guys like you and me would have done a much better job than Trump has done by now, under the circumstances.)
President Trump is also still working on what I personally considered to be his #1 campaign promise--to arrest and prosecute HRC. A lot of folks have said that Trump was lying when he promised to lock her up. What they don't realize is that the Clintons are the tip of an iceberg of corruption--and Trump intends down to destroy the whole monster of the Deep State during his Presidency.
I think we all need to pray for the safety of the Trump/Pence team. A President Pelosi would be our doom.
-
I understand your bitterness, and I'm not surprised that it explains your pessimism even if I am not personally so pessimistic as you are. I also understand that your bitterness darkly colors your language, but I think it's a bit too pejorative to style President Trump's failure to get the wall built as proof that he was lying about his intentions during the campaign. He's still working on it. He has to be very, very careful negotiating the legal minefield.
(I'm not sure that even loveable, handsome, super-brilliant guys like you and me would have done a much better job than Trump has done by now, under the circumstances.)
President Trump is also still working on what I personally considered to be his #1 campaign promise--to arrest and prosecute HRC. A lot of folks have said that Trump was lying when he promised to lock her up. What they don't realize is that the Clintons are the tip of an iceberg of corruption--and Trump intends down to destroy the whole monster of the Deep State during his Presidency.
I think we all need to pray for the safety of the Trump/Pence team. A President Pelosi would be our doom.
I can agree with most of that, except I really do think the President lied about how much he wanted that wall. If he were telling the truth, this battle would have been about two years ago. "Lie" is not too strong a word here.
-
I can agree with most of that, except I really do think the President lied about how much he wanted that wall. If he were telling the truth, this battle would have been about two years ago. "Lie" is not too strong a word here.
Trump is the very same man that said in 2012 that Mitt Romney was "mean-spirited" for campaigning on motivating illegals to leave the country. The truth is self evident with any honest observation. The art of the deal is about getting what he wants. Everything else is secondary.
-
I can agree with most of that, except I really do think the President lied about how much he wanted that wall. If he were telling the truth, this battle would have been about two years ago. "Lie" is not too strong a word here.
"If something needs to be done eventually, it needs to be done immediately."
-
BTW, @the_doc.
I am not "bitter." I don't get bitter, especially when it comes to promises by politician. If I did, I'd be dead by now. I do, however, get disappointed from time to time. I am sorry if I somehow gave you the impression my words are inspired by bitterness, but they are instead inspired by years of experience dealing with these lowlifes.
For a brief while there, I thought Trump could rise above that, but I just watched him throw it all away because if a threat he wouldn't get to deliver his beautiful, wonderful speech. It reinforces every bad thing I've read about him on TBR.
-
I listened to Dan Bongino's podcast this afternoon. He had recorded it before the big Trump retreat, and was really positive about Pelosi and the Dems being on the fence now and getting pressure to negotiate. He thought Trump had won this battle by standing tough. I'll have to listen to him Monday and see what he thinks now.
-
If he would just give the state of the union as required by the constitution some place else other than the house it would cut the house out of it entirely.
Constitutionally, I don't think he can.
Article II, Section 3
[The President] shall from time to time give to the Congress Information on the State of the Union . . .
Seemingly, that means he must give it to Congress directly, either in writing or---as has been the unfortunate practise since that buttinski Wilson turned it into a g@ddam semi-royal proclamation event---in the House before a joint session. I suspect that if he decided to give it in a tweetstorm or on television from the Oval Office or from some other podium somewhere else, President Tweety would run afoul of the Constitution. (Not that he necessarily cares about the Constitution, of course . . . but surely someone among his White House stooges would try to inform him appropriately.)
Personally, I've been in longtime favour of doing away with the bloody joint session pageant of it and returning the State of the Union to being a message in writing delivered to Congress, from which Congress can insert it into the Congressional Record and nobody's required or obligated to read the damn thing, unless they're masochistic enough to thrive on reading Me! I'm the One! speeches at the drop of the proverbial hat.
-
Trump is the very same man that said in 2012 that Mitt Romney was "mean-spirited" for campaigning on motivating illegals to leave the country. The truth is self evident with any honest observation. The art of the deal is about getting what he wants. Everything else is secondary.
I'll bet he meant it at the time even if his beliefs were horribly shallow at the time. Remember: He was a naïve New York billionaire who ran around with the likes of the Clintons.
I would also bet that Trump has changed his mind about almost everything ideological since his epiphany in about 2015 concerning the reality and profoundly evil designs of the Deep State. And I'm absolutely certain that his hatred of the Deep State has only grown since 2016. After all, they are trying to destroy him. That ain't kabuki theater. So, don't sell him short. Watch carefully what he is doing over the next few months.
-
I'll bet he meant it at the time even if his beliefs were horribly shallow at the time. Remember: He was a naïve New York billionaire who ran around with the likes of the Clintons.
I would also bet that Trump has changed his mind about almost everything ideological since his epiphany in about 2015 concerning the reality and profoundly evil designs of the Deep State. And I'm absolutely certain that his hatred of the Deep State has only grown since 2016. After all, they are trying to destroy him. That ain't kabuki theater. So, don't sell him short. Watch carefully what he is doing over the next few months.
What epiphany was that?
-
I just don't see it @the_doc and I speak from experience, being an old man 5 years younger than him. Normally, we don't change significantly, we just adapt to the circumstances and justify in 'our' head somehow to continue along the path, happily and 3 years ago I was the same.
Unfortunately for all involved, including me, I am obviously very stubborn and not likely to compromise on what got me this far.
Long story Short, he hasn't changed in the last 20 years.
-
Constitutionally, I don't think he can.
Seemingly, that means he must give it to Congress directly, either in writing or---as has been the unfortunate practise since that buttinski Wilson turned it into a g@ddam semi-royal proclamation event---in the House before a joint session. I suspect that if he decided to give it in a tweetstorm or on television from the Oval Office or from some other podium somewhere else, President Tweety would run afoul of the Constitution. (Not that he necessarily cares about the Constitution, of course . . . but surely someone among his White House stooges would try to inform him appropriately.)
Personally, I've been in longtime favour of doing away with the bloody joint session pageant of it and returning the State of the Union to being a message in writing delivered to Congress, from which Congress can insert it into the Congressional Record and nobody's required or obligated to read the damn thing, unless they're masochistic enough to thrive on reading Me! I'm the One! speeches at the drop of the proverbial hat.
A number of presidents sent written state of the unions without going before congress in person at all. It was constitutional then.
-
I just don't see it @the_doc and I speak from experience, being an old man 5 years younger than him. Normally, we don't change significantly, we just adapt to the circumstances and justify in 'our' head somehow to continue along the path, happily and 3 years ago I was the same.
Unfortunately for all involved, including me, I am obviously very stubborn and not likely to compromise on what got me this far.
Long story Short, he hasn't changed in the last 20 years.
----------------------------
His Mother, a wise Scot, labeled him incorrigible (incapable of change) as
she and her husband sent him to a Military Academy when he was 12!!!!!
-
A number of presidents sent written state of the unions without going before congress in person at all. It was constitutional then.
The key is that the written messages were sent to Congress. It would still be quite constitutional to revert to that practise. God only knows I wish it would, once and for all. But delivering it as a spoken address from any venue other than Congress itself could be very unconstitutional.
-
What epiphany was that?
The "epiphany" they imagine is to assuage their conscience for voting for what they voted for. Never mind the obvious.
-
The key is that the written messages were sent to Congress. It would still be quite constitutional to revert to that practise. God only knows I wish it would, once and for all. But delivering it as a spoken address from any venue other than Congress itself could be very unconstitutional.
There's the senate chambers.
-
There's the senate chambers.
The Senate Chamber is unavailable when the Speaker of the House declares the entire Capitol off limits to the POTUS. She actually has that authority.
-
The Senate Chamber is unavailable when the Speaker of the House declares the entire Capitol off limits to the POTUS. She actually has that authority.
Don't know about her having authority over the Senate Chamber, but the Senate option was closed anyway when it came out the Senate had to pass a Resolution to Invite, that was subject to the Filibuster, and the Rats would not vote either Cloture Motion to permit it.
I could be wrong.
-
Don't know about her having authority over the Senate Chamber, but the Senate option was closed anyway when it came out the Senate had to pass a Resolution to Invite, that was subject to the Filibuster, and the Rats would not vote either Cloture Motion to permit it.
I could be wrong.
The Speaker is designated to have responsibility for the
security of the entire Capitol. A Senate invitation would have stirred the waters, but otherwise irrelevant.
-
The Speaker is designated to have responsibility for the
security of the entire Capitol. A Senate invitation would have stirred the waters, but otherwise irrelevant.
Besides, the President didn't want to do a Senate-only speech. I see his point.
-
He still ain't getting the SOTU.
-
He still ain't getting the SOTU.
Pelosi said she ain't running no section 8 Hud program. No SOTU for You.
-
The "epiphany" they imagine is to assuage their 9conscience for voting for what they voted for. Never mind the obvious.
I never voted for Trump. (I didn't believe he had a change of heart.) I now do believe it--at least with respect to his basic ideology.
-
I never voted for Trump. (I didn't believe he had a change of heart.) I now do believe it--at least with respect to his basic ideology.
See, this is why I always read your posts. I watched your big ol' ship turn, as did mine. I learned a lot along the way, which is why I won't get into a spitting match with you.... :tongue2:
-
See, this is why I always read your posts. I watched your big ol' ship turn, as did mine. I learned a lot along the way, which is why I won't get into a spitting match with you.... :tongue2:
You're as kooky as I am
-
He still ain't getting the SOTU.
I'll bet he will, though.
-
I'll bet he will, though.
I think he will, too, just not the 29th as originally planned. It will be interesting if Pelosi tries that routine again in a few weeks.
-
The key is that the written messages were sent to Congress. It would still be quite constitutional to revert to that practise. God only knows I wish it would, once and for all. But delivering it as a spoken address from any venue other than Congress itself could be very unconstitutional.
How about if the official version of the SOTU were delivered in writing to Congress and Trump informally delivered the same address to the nation from the Oval Office?
FWIW, Nixon's 1973 address and Carter's 1981 address were in writing.
-
How about if the official version of the SOTU were delivered in writing to Congress and Trump informally delivered the same address to the nation from the Oval Office?
FWIW, Nixon's 1973 address and Carter's 1981 address were in writing.
That makes way too much sense.
-
How about if the official version of the SOTU were delivered in writing to Congress and Trump informally delivered the same address to the nation from the Oval Office?
FWIW, Nixon's 1973 address and Carter's 1981 address were in writing.
If I were Jimmy Carter I'd have crawled under a rock in January 1981 too. Don't know why Nixon would have done that having won a 49-State election.
-
How about if the official version of the SOTU were delivered in writing to Congress and Trump informally delivered the same address to the nation from the Oval Office?
FWIW, Nixon's 1973 address and Carter's 1981 address were in writing.
Yes. And the point is he could have done that bypassing Pelosi and the house. How many cameras were present seemed to be more important though.
-
Yes. And the point is he could have done that bypassing Pelosi and the house. How many cameras were present seemed to be more important though.
Yeah, that really sticks in my craw. It looks like he could tolerate a whole bunch of lower-level Gummint employees not getting paychecks and beer labels not being designed, but he promptly caved when his big, beautiful speech got canceled.
I'm sure there's more to it than that, but that's the optics.
-
Yes. And the point is he could have done that bypassing Pelosi and the house. How many cameras were present seemed to be more important though.
The media has reportedly already told him that they won't televise a primetime SOTU speech from the Oval Office, but only from the House Chamber.
Notice from this that they are trying to block Trump's broad access to the American people. THAT underscores how important the speech is.
Trump is facing much more fervent opposition than even Reagan did. Trump has to win the communications war.
-
As a LEGAL IMMIGRANT..who loves America & supports a great president..It really makes me sad, how so many UNDERMINE OUR COUNTRY and are not supportive of president TRUMP. People have lost their way, & think It is about 'THEIR FEELINGS"...not what is good for the country. We will not have a country, if N.T.'s can't see that. They would rather we be like VENEZUELA, instead of supporting the man who wants to secure our country. This is NOT a football game! N.T.'s don't see the communist/socialist who want to destroy our country? Pelosi, was an actual card carrying communist one time. Ocasio-Cortez, Bernie Sanders. You think, we can just poo poo these nutty people, that THEY aren't making headway into America? Venezuela, once was great, now they are eating dogs & Zoo animals, & last I heard cannabalism to survive, but people still think NOT SUPPORTING our president, is th thing to do. People boiled shoe leather, to try & get some broth, food to eat In Ukraine. I lived socialism and we were starving.
This will get mocked & fall on deaf ears. It is heartbreaking how people are clueless about, what they are doing to America, fo their "personal ethics, pride, principle ". Try EATING...THOSE.
-
The media has reportedly already told him that they won't televise a primetime SOTU speech from the Oval Office, but only from the House Chamber.
Notice from this that they are trying to block Trump's broad access to the American people. THAT underscores how important the speech is.
Trump is facing much more fervent opposition than even Reagan did. Trump has to win the communications war.
Doc, you know, most people already,,KNOW...."the state of the union". N.T.'s are thrilled as if, this is a football game & not the life or death of our country! For them too. I don't care about the SOTU.......president TRUMP has told us many times, how things are going. I Love America and support a great man & president. Compassionate & caring Human being. People have been brainwashed for years about him. They eat up the lies, & are no better than the next human being. Virtue signaling is PHONY tool. So many scripture touting people, yet ,"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"....forgotten. www.magapill.com (http://www.magapill.com)
Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1695&v=Jsf3d9xLtRA#)
-
You may have a point there @LegalAmerican
(https://jsportsblogger.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/houston-rockets.gif)