The Briefing Room
General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: sinkspur on November 08, 2016, 02:13:46 am
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http://www.wsj.com/articles/2016s-big-reveal-1478564830
2016’s Big Reveal
Donald Trump is a demagogue. Period. The right’s failure to see it is a disgrace.
By BRET STEPHENS
Nov. 7, 2016 7:27 p.m. ET
Someday, maybe, when I’m old and a child asks me what I remember about the awful election of 2016, I’ll say: It was the Big Reveal.
Revealed: That the guiding spirit of the modern conservative movement is neither Burke nor Lincoln. It’s Marx. “These are my principles,” Groucho once cracked, “and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.” Everything Republicans once claimed to advocate—entitlement reform, free trade, standing up to dictators, encouraging the march of freedom around the world—turns out to be negotiable and reversible, depending on Donald Trump’s whims and the furies of his base.
Revealed: That moral clarity and moral equivalence have become interchangeable concepts in today’s GOP. The same Republicans who pontificated throughout the 1990s about restoring honor and dignity to the Oval Office are now eager to rent that office to a man who boasts of his own sexual predations. Why? Because Bill Clinton already did it.
more at link
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One last loogie hocked in Trump's direction.
May you become what you most hate: a big fat loser.
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To me he always struck me as a liberal trying to pass themselves off as their distorted image of a conservative.
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What all this shows is that most conservative intellectuals have proved incapable of self-examination or even simple observation. Donald Trump is a demagogue. Period. The fervor of his crowds recalls Nasser’s Egypt. His convictions are illiberal. His manners are disgusting. His temper is frightening. It ought to have been the job of thoughtful conservatives in this season to point this out, time and again. If they can’t do that, what good are they?
George Orwell said that “to see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle.” The Big Reveal of 2016 is that most conservatives failed the Orwell test. On Tuesday we’ll learn if American voters can do better.
This is the money quote.
Very well said, Bret.
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A big fat loser...
Who has built hundreds of properties, including skyscrapers worldwide, owns 500 companies, and starred for 11 years on one of the most popular shows on television. And that only begins to touch on Mr. Trump's resume.
Why don't you show us your resume, sinky. I'm sure you're not a loser like Donald Trump.
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(http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Denzel-Washington-Boom-Gif.gif)
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Oh, did I mention that he has great successful children and extended family and a beautiful wife?
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...I should be such a loser.
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A big fat loser...
Who has built hundreds of properties, including skyscrapers worldwide, owns 500 companies, and starred for 11 years on one of the most popular shows on television. And that only begins to touch on Mr. Trump's resume.
Why don't you show us your resume, sinky. I'm sure you're not a loser like Donald Trump.
Trump is a middling businessman. He's had four bankruptcies, can no longer build much because of his terrible credit rating, and makes his money now by leasing his name to what others have constructed.
I would never be so stupid as to run for President. Trump thought America just couldn't live without him at it's helm.
He will find out tomorrow that, indeed, America can and will.
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Oh, did I mention that he has great successful children and extended family and a beautiful wife?
He has great children because he had little to do with raising them. He has said, numerous times, that he left that to Ivana, his first of three wives.
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A big fat loser...
Who has built hundreds of properties, including skyscrapers worldwide, owns 500 companies, and starred for 11 years on one of the most popular shows on television. And that only begins to touch on Mr. Trump's resume.
Why don't you show us your resume, sinky. I'm sure you're not a loser like Donald Trump.
(https://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/051e03c870b7b14a43daf649cd84f37e2500f1-v5-wm.jpg?v=3)
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Yeah, memes are very persuasive. Took how many seconds to post that brilliant argument, Johnny boy?
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I have been around the world. (twice).
I have done things that no one does. I have seen things that no one sees.
I am voting for Donald Trump because your life, my life, depends on it.
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Yeah, memes are very persuasive. Took how many seconds to post that brilliant argument, Johnny boy?
You don't even know where this came from.
LOL.
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(http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=3918&pictureid=81075)
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Oh, did I mention that he has great successful children and extended family and a beautiful wife?
He divorced two of those wives once they got past their sell-by dates and probably slept with his daughter. And you're using that filth as an ASSET?!
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I was married for 37 years... before we separated and divorced.
Get a grip, Jimmy. People get divorced. Reagan was divorced.
And that disgusting lie you threw in there is beneath contempt and doesn't merit a response.
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And that disgusting lie you threw in there is beneath contempt and doesn't merit a response.
"If she weren't my daughter, I'd be dating her." -- Actual quote from Donald
"We don't discuss those things in public." -- Actual quote from Ivanka
You tell me that's a lie.
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It ought to have been the job of thoughtful conservatives in this season to point this out, time and again. If they can’t do that, what good are they?
There's the problem right there. "Thoughtful conservative" has become an oxymoron. "Talk radio conservative" is the thing now -- and that's precisely the type of shallow, invective-spewing "conservative" that fueled the Trump fire.
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(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14963198_10154322318352912_2048150554451139245_n.jpg?oh=9aa64d46c2700d69a411ac1b18573aa6&oe=58C8A9A6)
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@jmyrlefuller
Also on the Wendy Williams show, Trump said the only thing he and Ivanka had in common was sex.
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Bret Stephens is another minority who doesn't like the majority, so could be accused of prejudice as well. Prejudice is a two way street.
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There's the problem right there. "Thoughtful conservative" has become an oxymoron. "Talk radio conservative" is the thing now -- and that's precisely the type of shallow, invective-spewing "conservative" that fueled the Trump fire.
Oh, yes, others are so thoughtful.
But no problem for others to accuse others of hate right off in an argument.
The view from the Ivory Tower must be nice.
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Newt Gingrich on TV, he must be supporting a demagogue.
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All of this is meaningless. Trump is the single most horrible human being to ever exist. I get that.
But what then? Are we going to throw our vote to a unconvicted felon and crook? Possibly a murder? Are we going to 'write in' Mickey Mouse?
Trump is all we have. All of this, everything else, is just so much noise in the air.
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"Donald Trump is the single most horrible human being to ever exist"
Does the name Hitler ring a bell? Jeffrey Dahmer? That guy on the radio trying to sell vitamins on the weekend?
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There's no more "we." You can have Trump if you want him for your candidate. If you want my vote, give me someone of good character, integrity and a history of conservative principles. I will not throw my support to a vile man like Trump no matter who the left chooses. They always choose a leftwing extremist. That does not excuse Trump. I would rather lose than "win" with someone like Trump.
Ok. Your choice is honorable and I respect you for it. But the consequences of what you are doing will be on your head, not mine.
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With respect to the title of the article, I see Trump as more of a blowhard -- an ineffectual demagogue.
It's Hillary who will have the ability to turn her odious beliefs into actual policy.
Best example of that difference is their respective positions on the First Amendment. Trump has made the ridiculous claim that libel law should be amended so that it is easier to sue newspapers. On the other hand, Hillary wants to overturn Citizens United, which would be the first step towards silencing dissenting views coming from private citizens.
The difference is that Trump's proposed mangling of the First Amendment will not happen - no such case would even make it up to the courts, much less get enacted by Congress. But Hillary's desire to reverse Citizens United? That's pretty much a guarantee if she wins because of the Supreme Court.
Both hold offensive positions on the First Amendment, but only one is truly at risk of happening.
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Oh, yes, others are so thoughtful.
But no problem for others to accuse others of hate right off in an argument.
The view from the Ivory Tower must be nice.
Annnnnd you prove my point. Thank you.
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Bill Clinton blamed Talk Radio in the 1990s; curious, that once again, Talk Radio in a general way, gets blame.
I know George Will was blaming it.
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There's no more "we." You can have Trump if you want him for your candidate. If you want my vote, give me someone of good character, integrity and a history of conservative principles. I will not throw my support to a vile man like Trump no matter who the left chooses. They always choose a leftwing extremist. That does not excuse Trump. I would rather lose than "win" with someone like Trump.
I find abortion much more vile; but again, if we have folks riding on high horses, don't let it bother one.
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Annnnnd you prove my point. Thank you.
Yeah, I sure did, I sure got shown up. Thank you.
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When folks put Trump down, it's fair to bring up others.
Dubya put Christians in the cross-fire, that's just historic fact, he also promoted open borders; so when one calls others vile,
I think they are being hypocrites.
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Saying that you support Trump and are Pro-Life is the epitome of hypocrisy.
Please do tell me about all the "great things" that you and Trump both think Planned Parenthood does.
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Annnnnd you prove my point. Thank you.
I'm glad you admit you would basically use the race card like any card carrying liberal; can't win a debate otherwise.
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Ok. Your choice is honorable and I respect you for it. But the consequences of what you are doing will be on your head, not mine.
The word you wanted was "benefits". Not consequences. It's nice to know you admit to not voting for Trump was an honorable choice. One that you respect. So when you chose the word consequences - you chose poorly.
@240B
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Saying that you support Trump and are Pro-Life is the epitome of hypocrisy.
Please do tell me about all the "great things" that you and Trump both think Planned Parenthood does.
You are insane. Hillary Clinton is the world's leading leader on abortion. Have you lost your mind?
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Quote
What all this shows is that most conservative intellectuals have proved incapable of self-examination or even simple observation. Donald Trump is a demagogue. Period. The fervor of his crowds recalls Nasser’s Egypt. His convictions are illiberal. His manners are disgusting. His temper is frightening. It ought to have been the job of thoughtful conservatives in this season to point this out, time and again. If they can’t do that, what good are they?
George Orwell said that “to see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle.” The Big Reveal of 2016 is that most conservatives failed the Orwell test. On Tuesday we’ll learn if American voters can do better.
This is the money quote.
Very well said, Bret.
I disagree. Bret is all about blaming conservatives here.
Bah. Conservatives had nothing to do with this Trump fiasco. Republicans are to blame. Conservatives tried and tried to push through Ted Cruz. Or anyone else but Trump. We warned you. We told you so.
@HonestJohn
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Saying that you support Trump and are Pro-Life is the epitome of hypocrisy.
Please do tell me about all the "great things" that you and Trump both think Planned Parenthood does.
Cruz, Paul, Lee, Rubio have done nothing in comparison to Mike Pence on the pro-life issue, all of them together haven't.
That's my way of seeing it, you can disagree but I do think my point of view is reasonable.
The most pro-life Republican ever on the ticket gets my vote.
Again, research the issue if one cares too. We should not have to reinvent the wheel here,
lifenews.com
lifesitenews.com
Are good places to start.
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Quote
What all this shows is that most conservative intellectuals have proved incapable of self-examination or even simple observation. Donald Trump is a demagogue. Period. The fervor of his crowds recalls Nasser’s Egypt. His convictions are illiberal. His manners are disgusting. His temper is frightening. It ought to have been the job of thoughtful conservatives in this season to point this out, time and again. If they can’t do that, what good are they?
George Orwell said that “to see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle.” The Big Reveal of 2016 is that most conservatives failed the Orwell test. On Tuesday we’ll learn if American voters can do better.
This is the money quote.
Very well said, Bret.
I disagree. Bret is all about blaming conservatives here.
Bah. Conservatives had nothing to do with this Trump fiasco. Republicans are to blame. Conservatives tried and tried to push through Ted Cruz. Or anyone else but Trump. We warned you. We told you so.
@HonestJohn
If one doesn't like Democracy, there is always North Korea, it's not the primary season now.
Cruz couldn't even win one state in Dixie Proper. His wins really came in the rocky mountain west.
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Yeah, I sure did, I sure got shown up. Thank you.
First law of holes, Tom. You need to learn it.
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Resp3 is right, put another Texan in the White House; not enough persecution of Christians in the Middle East happened under Dubya I suppose. What a success that was.
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First law of holes, Tom. You need to learn it.
Keep up the condescending arrogant attitude.
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The word you wanted was "benefits". Not consequences. It's nice to know you admit to not voting for Trump was an honorable choice. One that you respect. So when you chose the word consequences - you chose poorly.
@240B
Not you, or me, Time will find one of us right.
I hope it is you.
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Keep up the condescending arrogant attitude.
Honestly, Tom, I didn't have you in mind when I originally mentioned "invective-spewing 'conservatives,'" but you insist on behaving like one, scare quotes and all. Do you simply refuse to think before you post?
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Curious how Ted Cruz's position to support the nominee is now scoffed at.
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Honestly, Tom, I didn't have you in mind when I originally mentioned "invective-spewing 'conservatives,'" but you insist on behaving like one, scare quotes and all. Do you simply refuse to think before you post?
Keep up the insults;
I don't need them to make an argument. I guess that doesn't apply to everyone.
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http://www.wsj.com/articles/2016s-big-reveal-1478564830
2016’s Big Reveal
Donald Trump is a demagogue. Period. The right’s failure to see it is a disgrace.
By BRET STEPHENS
Nov. 7, 2016 7:27 p.m. ET
Everything Republicans once claimed to advocate—entitlement reform, free trade, standing up to dictators, encouraging the march of freedom around the world—
Sans entitlement reform those are not traditional republican values those are neocon values.
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Resp3 is right, put another Texan in the White House; not enough persecution of Christians in the Middle East happened under Dubya I suppose. What a success that was.
After Bush I don't think the country is ready for another Texan in the White House. Cruz would have lost on the Natural Born Citizen thing alone. Cruz had zero chance of winning the general, to many on the right take the constitution seriously and his flip flop on TPA/TPP was monumental. Rubio had the same problem but to a lesser extent since Rubio was born here, flipping on amnesty would have killed Rubio with middle/working class voters. For conservatives the choice was Trump, Cruz, Huckebee, Santorium maybe Carson. Everyone else was card carrying uniparty. And I have my doubts about Cruzs' bonifides as an anti-establishment candidate.
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After Bush I don't think the country is ready for another Texan in the White House. Cruz would have lost on the Natural Born Citizen thing alone. Cruz had zero chance of winning the general, to many on the right take the constitution seriously and his flip flop on TPA/TPP was monumental. Rubio had the same problem but to a lesser extent since Rubio was born here, flipping on amnesty would have killed Rubio with middle/working class voters. For conservatives the choice was Trump, Cruz, Huckebee, Santorium maybe Carson. Everyone else was card carrying uniparty. And I have my doubts about Cruzs' bonifides as an anti-establishment candidate.
I agree with much of your analysis.
I believe Donald Trump may be our last best chance to restore the republic given us by our founders.
He must have a special stomach lining because he has not wavered one bit in the face of daily streams of brutal, over-the-top criticisms and attacks on him, his family, his business. He did not need to do this, yet has willingly sacrificed nearly 2 years of his life to get to this point. He has the resources to live a life of grand luxury, but chose instead service to his fellow Americans. He has undertaken this challenge, I believe, purely for love of country.
He truly is a great American. :patriot:
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Resp3 is right, put another Texan in the White House; not enough persecution of Christians in the Middle East happened under Dubya I suppose. What a success that was.
What a ridiculous, brain-dead remark.
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After Bush I don't think the country is ready for another Texan in the White House. Cruz would have lost on the Natural Born Citizen thing alone. Cruz had zero chance of winning the general, to many on the right take the constitution seriously and his flip flop on TPA/TPP was monumental. Rubio had the same problem but to a lesser extent since Rubio was born here, flipping on amnesty would have killed Rubio with middle/working class voters. For conservatives the choice was Trump, Cruz, Huckebee, Santorium maybe Carson. Everyone else was card carrying uniparty. And I have my doubts about Cruzs' bonifides as an anti-establishment candidate.
This is the funniest thing I've read all day, given your support for a moral degenerate who has no political philosophy (and likely can't spell "philosophy").
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He truly is a great American. :patriot:
Bump!
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I agree with much of your analysis.
I believe Donald Trump may be our last best chance to restore the republic given us by our founders.
He must have a special stomach lining because he has not wavered one bit in the face of daily streams of brutal, over-the-top criticisms and attacks on him, his family, his business. He did not need to do this, yet has willingly sacrificed nearly 2 years of his life to get to this point. He has the resources to live a life of grand luxury, but chose instead service to his fellow Americans. He has undertaken this challenge, I believe, purely for love of country.
He truly is a great American. :patriot:
Yes he did. It's the ultimate end to a life spent in self-aggrandizement and self-glorification. The last 16 months were essentially a prank gone horribly wrong. Donald Trump doesn't give a rat's ass about "this country" because he could care less about its people. He puts down and insults anyone who disagrees with him or gets in his way.
"He was captured. I like those who weren't captured."
For Trump, life is about himself. Thus, the rallies, the big crowds, the shunning of the mundane activities of actually getting elected. He loves the stage and the accolades.
What he'll do without them is anybody's guess.
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For Trump, life is about himself. Thus, the rallies, the big crowds, the shunning of the mundane activities of actually getting elected. He loves the stage and the accolades.
What he'll do without them is anybody's guess.
My guess is that he'll do his Trump TV schtick for awhile. But that will go south very fast. He'll become a political pariah before the end of the year. It'll be a hoot to watch FReeper types turn on him in exactly the same way they turned on other losers like Newt, Huck, Palin and so on.
Meanwhile - this (I must admit) has been a most entertaining dog and pony show. The trained monkeys were amazing. And the sideshow freaks were - well really freaky.
After tonight - I'll say a prayer for the memory of conservatism in America and pray that some day some political party will return to sanity. Assuming of course, that there will be enough sane people in America to make such a party all that viable.
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My guess is that he'll do his Trump TV schtick for awhile. But that will go south very fast. He'll become a political pariah before the end of the year. It'll be a hoot to watch FReeper types turn on him in exactly the same way they turned on other losers like Newt, Huck, Palin and so on.
Meanwhile - this (I must admit) has been a most entertaining dog and pony show. The trained monkeys were amazing. And the sideshow freaks were - well really freaky.
After tonight - I'll say a prayer for the memory of conservatism in America and pray that some day some political party will return to sanity. Assuming of course, that there will be enough sane people in America to make such a party all that viable.
My guess is that he'll quickly get bored with the actual job, and leave most of that to underlings. He'll probably act more as a Head of State than as a Head of Government. Visit a lot of countries, make speeches, maybe be his own press secretary sometimes.
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After Bush I don't think the country is ready for another Texan in the White House. Cruz would have lost on the Natural Born Citizen thing alone. Cruz had zero chance of winning the general, to many on the right take the constitution seriously and his flip flop on TPA/TPP was monumental. Rubio had the same problem but to a lesser extent since Rubio was born here, flipping on amnesty would have killed Rubio with middle/working class voters. For conservatives the choice was Trump, Cruz, Huckebee, Santorium maybe Carson. Everyone else was card carrying uniparty. And I have my doubts about Cruzs' bonifides as an anti-establishment candidate.
I don't like to criticize Bush, this language to talk down Trump just makes me say, "hey, Romney was this" or "Bush was this", I voted for both. I don't get the criticism. It's never me against Bush so I try to temper comments with also criticizing the Democrats; which for all we know, some may actually be for.
It's rather shameful; I can understand one does not like Trump; that's one thing,
To say the most vile things about him and in turn, at the same time, not criticize Hillary, who can be said to have done lots of horrible things is absolute baffling.
The nastiness, is more suited to be a Democrat; this is a conservative forum afterall.
You hate (to a degree) the other party, you don't totally hate your own party's candidate,
Cruz campaigned with Trump, had an alliance, there is really something wacky about Trump hate. Unless it is really to defend the establishment.
Some policies, okay, one might not agree with, trade policies say. It is still very strange.
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I agree with much of your analysis.
I believe Donald Trump may be our last best chance to restore the republic given us by our founders.
He must have a special stomach lining because he has not wavered one bit in the face of daily streams of brutal, over-the-top criticisms and attacks on him, his family, his business. He did not need to do this, yet has willingly sacrificed nearly 2 years of his life to get to this point. He has the resources to live a life of grand luxury, but chose instead service to his fellow Americans. He has undertaken this challenge, I believe, purely for love of country.
He truly is a great American. :patriot:
And you are too.
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This is the funniest thing I've read all day, given your support for a moral degenerate who has no political philosophy (and likely can't spell "philosophy").
Well I am not a good speller and I am willing to admit my faults. However I am excellent at analogizing what is going on politically. In fact I am seldom incorrect at seeing the big picture. It is kind of a curse since I am rarely able to convince the less gifted of the dire consequences of voting the way they do. I did very thing I could to make Steve Forbes the nominee instead of W, alas to no avail. However even those
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I have been around the world. (twice).
I have done things that no one does. I have seen things that no one sees.
I am voting for Donald Trump because your life, my life, depends on it.
Were you alone? If someone else was with you they did it and they saw it, or have been somewhere no human has ever been and something no human has ever done?
Your life and ours depends on voting for Trump? Puuuhleeeeze!
The hyperbole is strong with this one, reality? Meh.
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Were you alone? If someone else was with you they did it and they saw it, or have been somewhere no human has ever been and something no human has ever done?
Your life and ours depends on voting for Trump? Puuuhleeeeze!
The hyperbole is strong with this one, reality? Meh.
Hyperbole all 'round has been the currency of this election, from March until now.
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I have been around the world. (twice).
I have done things that no one does. I have seen things that no one sees.
Were you alone? If someone else was with you they did it and they saw it, or have been somewhere no human has ever been and something no human has ever done?
Your life and ours depends on voting for Trump? Puuuhleeeeze!
The hyperbole is strong with this one, reality? Meh.
Heeee's been to paradise, but he's never been to "me."