The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: edpc on January 18, 2018, 10:52:28 pm
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A four-page memo circulating in Congress that reveals United States government surveillance abuses is being described by lawmakers as “shocking,†“troubling†and “alarming,†with one congressman likening the details to KGB activity in Russia.
Speaking with Fox News, the lawmakers said they could not yet discuss the contents of the memo they reviewed on Thursday after it was released to members by the House Intelligence Committee. But they say the memo should be immediately made public.
“It is so alarming the American people have to see this,†Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan said.
“It's troubling. It is shocking,†North Carolina Rep. Mark Meadows said. “Part of me wishes that I didn't read it because I don’t want to believe that those kinds of things could be happening in this country that I call home and love so much.â€
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/18/gop-lawmakers-demand-alarming-memo-on-fisa-abuses-be-made-public.amp.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/18/gop-lawmakers-demand-alarming-memo-on-fisa-abuses-be-made-public.amp.html)
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Video of FL Rep Matt Gaetz on Fox Business
https://mobile.twitter.com/FoxBusiness/status/954097548498735104/video/1
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When will people be prosecuted
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I've been hearing rumors about the existence of this bombshell for a week on kook sites. Looks like they got one right.
Now the big question is whether Donny has the balls to start firing people.......including Mueller.
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You'd have to think the WH has some version of this. Can't they release it?
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A four-page memo circulating in Congress that reveals United States government surveillance abuses is being described by lawmakers as “shocking,†“troubling†and “alarming,†with one congressman likening the details to KGB activity in Russia.
Speaking with Fox News, the lawmakers said they could not yet discuss the contents of the memo they reviewed on Thursday after it was released to members by the House Intelligence Committee. But they say the memo should be immediately made public.
“It is so alarming the American people have to see this,†Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan said.
“It's troubling. It is shocking,†North Carolina Rep. Mark Meadows said. “Part of me wishes that I didn't read it because I don’t want to believe that those kinds of things could be happening in this country that I call home and love so much.â€
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/18/gop-lawmakers-demand-alarming-memo-on-fisa-abuses-be-made-public.amp.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/18/gop-lawmakers-demand-alarming-memo-on-fisa-abuses-be-made-public.amp.html)
The MSM will never report this. They continue reporting on their alternative universe and will miss this HUUUGE story. I hope the details are made public ASAP. Many firings in the top ranks of the FBI and DOJ are in order, and prosecutions of them and previous administration officials.
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You'd have to think the WH has some version of this. Can't they release it?
Better to let this thing simmer to build up some excitement.
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Sara Carter's web site!
My pick for a Pulitzer!
A Bombshell House Intelligence report exposing extensive FISA abuse could lead to the removal of senior government officials
https://saraacarter.com/2018/01/18/a-bombshell-house-intelligence-report-exposing-extensive-fisa-abuse-could-lead-to-the-removal-of-senior-government-officials/
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I like her, smart and pretty. Thanks for sharing @mrclose
(https://saraacarter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/DRCHlIZVQAAUn07.jpg)
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Sara Carter's web site!
My pick for a Pulitzer!
A Bombshell House Intelligence report exposing extensive FISA abuse could lead to the removal of senior government officials
https://saraacarter.com/2018/01/18/a-bombshell-house-intelligence-report-exposing-extensive-fisa-abuse-could-lead-to-the-removal-of-senior-government-officials/
I heartily second that motion!
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Any theories on what’s in this document?
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The MSM will never report this. They continue reporting on their alternative universe and will miss this HUUUGE story. I hope the details are made public ASAP. Many firings in the top ranks of the FBI and DOJ are in order, and prosecutions of them and previous administration officials.
Hannity was all over this tonight. Of course, Hannity has been successfully dismissed as a Trump lover but he's more reliable than a lot of the press.
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They want them made public? Then they should go right ahead a la Feinstein.
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A Bombshell House Intelligence report exposing extensive FISA abuse could lead to the removal of senior government officials
Sara Carter
https://saraacarter.com/2018/01/18/a-bombshell-house-intelligence-report-exposing-extensive-fisa-abuse-could-lead-to-the-removal-of-senior-government-officials/
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Hannity was all over this tonight. Of course, Hannity has been successfully dismissed as a Trump lover but he's more reliable than a lot of the press.
I saw it. I'm waiting for CNN and MSNBC to cover it and I'll probably die first. WaPo and NYTimes, cover of Time and Newsweek, too.
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The Dems are already trying to discredit it by saying Nunes has gone off the rails acting independently.
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But a porn actress.....
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Republicans rally for public release of memo on FISA abuses
Washington Examiner, Jan 19, 2018, Daniel Chaitin
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/republicans-rally-for-public-release-of-memo-on-fisa-abuses/article/2646412 (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/republicans-rally-for-public-release-of-memo-on-fisa-abuses/article/2646412)
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Let me get this straight, they just voted to let the NSA not need warrants and they're upset about FISA warrant abuse?
I'm guessing the upsetting "abuse" involved FISA warrants against people in government, seeing that they regard the conduct of signals intelligence (a war measure) against the American people as a whole as right and proper (thereby showing they regard us as an enemy).
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Its strange, they can't seem to keep anything secret these days. Not the Secretary of States official emails, not our future plans for nuclear codes, not even what the President of the United States says in a private meeting in the White House.
But they are quite good at keeping the particulars of spying on Americans super duper Top Secret.
Odd
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Sounds like a lot of posturing to me.
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The MSM will never report this. They continue reporting on their alternative universe and will miss this HUUUGE story. I hope the details are made public ASAP. Many firings in the top ranks of the FBI and DOJ are in order, and prosecutions of them and previous administration officials.
@austingirl
Thank you! Firings and loss of benefits is a good place to start,but these people need to be prosecuted and face time in prison. Anything less is a mockery of justice.
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I like her, smart and pretty. Thanks for sharing @mrclose
(https://saraacarter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/DRCHlIZVQAAUn07.jpg)
@corbe
Smart women are automatically prettier/more desirable.
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IF this goes through and firings and arrests follow,expect "Hillary is going to jail!" version 7,238.6 to emerge.
Personally, I would like to see her burned at the stake,which is what she deserves,but at MOST she will be given a "You naughty girl,you!" slap on the hand,and a small fine someone else will pay for her. And only a wild-eyed optimist thinks that even THAT will actually happen. If it DOES happen it will be at her request so she will be insulated from any further charges.
George Orwell was a visionary. Some pigs really ARE "more equal" than other pigs.
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Now the big question is whether Donny has the balls to start firing people.......including Mueller.
He hasn't the authority to fire Mueller.
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He hasn't the authority to fire Mueller.
@endicom
Are you serious? Trump will fire anyone at any time. He's famous for firing people that don't produce or who are unloyal.
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He hasn't the authority to fire Mueller.
The guy who helped write the Special Counsel rules disagrees.
But former acting solicitor general Neal Katyal, who helped draft the special counsel regulations in the 1990s, has also suggested that the rules don't "foreclose the possibility of political interference in the investigation."
"Our Constitution gives the President the full prosecution power in Article II; accordingly, any federal prosecutor works ultimately for the President," Katyal said. "The President, therefore, would have to direct Rosenstein to fire Mueller -- or, somewhat more extravagantly, Trump could order the special-counsel regulations repealed and then fire Mueller himself."
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The guy who helped write the Special Counsel rules disagrees.
But former acting solicitor general Neal Katyal, who helped draft the special counsel regulations in the 1990s, has also suggested that the rules don't "foreclose the possibility of political interference in the investigation."
"Our Constitution gives the President the full prosecution power in Article II; accordingly, any federal prosecutor works ultimately for the President," Katyal said. "The President, therefore, would have to direct Rosenstein to fire Mueller -- or, somewhat more extravagantly, Trump could order the special-counsel regulations repealed and then fire Mueller himself."
Okay, Trump cannot at present fire Mueller.
Here's a link to your quote source: https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html)
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They want them made public? Then they should go right ahead a la Feinstein.
@GtHawk
The report is currently classified which means only James Comey or the State Dept can send it out via Yahoo.
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Okay, Trump cannot at present fire Mueller.
He can but it would be politically unwise.
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He can but it would be politically unwise.
I don't believe Trump can fire Mueller. I believe it has to come from the DOJ, in this case Rosenstein since Sessions reclused himself (or Rosenstein's replacement if Rosenstein were to be fired):
"Under the special counsel regulations, Mueller may be "disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the attorney general."
Attorney General Jeff Sessions has recused himself from all matters related to the 2016 presidential campaigns, so the power to fire Mueller falls to Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html)
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Hannity was all over this tonight. Of course, Hannity has been successfully dismissed as a Trump lover but he's more reliable than a lot of the press.
Yes, but that's a really low bar.
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Okay, Trump cannot at present fire Mueller.
Here's a link to your quote source: https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html)
Thanks, I thought I had included it. There's more information in his interview from The Washington Post, but it is behind a paywall.
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I don't believe Trump can fire Mueller. I believe it has to come from the DOJ, in this case Rosenstein since Sessions reclused himself (or Rosenstein's replacement if Rosenstein were to be fired):
"Under the special counsel regulations, Mueller may be "disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the attorney general."
Attorney General Jeff Sessions has recused himself from all matters related to the 2016 presidential campaigns, so the power to fire Mueller falls to Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html)
@Concerned
The DOJ works for Trump. Trump can fire anyone in the executive branch
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This would be the process for disclosing the information....
“Rule X of the House Rules allows the select committee to publicly disclose any information in its possession after a determination by the select committee that the public interest would be served by such disclosure.â€
According to House Rules, if the House intelligence committee votes to make the report public, President Trump would have five days to issue an objection. If he objected, it would take a vote on the House floor.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/18/worse-than-watergate-shocking-house-intel-memo-allegedly-reveals-fisa-abuse-by-senior-doj-and-fbi-officials/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/18/worse-than-watergate-shocking-house-intel-memo-allegedly-reveals-fisa-abuse-by-senior-doj-and-fbi-officials/)
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@Concerned
The DOJ works for Trump. Trump can fire anyone in the executive branch
According to law, in this case, 28 CFR 600.7, Trump can't fire the special counsel. This has been repeatedly covered by the press for months:
"(d) The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General. The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal."
:seeya:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7)
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According to law, in this case, 28 CFR 600.7, Trump can't fire the special counsel. This has been repeatedly covered by the press for months:
"(d) The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General. The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal."
:seeya:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7)
Then that law is patently unconstitutional as it encroaches on presidential power.
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According to law, in this case, 28 CFR 600.7, Trump can't fire the special counsel. This has been repeatedly covered by the press for months:
"(d) The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General. The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal."
:seeya:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7)
@Concerned
So the President tells the AG to fire the SC. You're talking the minutia. Each and every person in the Executive branch works for the President ultimately.
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According to law, in this case, 28 CFR 600.7, Trump can't fire the special counsel. This has been repeatedly covered by the press for months:
"(d) The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General. The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal."
:seeya:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7)
This does not supercede the executive authority cited by Neal Katyal in my previous post. That is why you always hear 'Constitutional Crisis' mentioned in discussions about it.
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@Concerned
So the President tells the AG to fire the SC. You're talking the minutia. Each and every person in the Executive branch works for the President ultimately.
The AG has recused himself so it falls on Rosenstein as I noted in Reply #30.
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The AG has recused himself so it falls on Rosenstein as I noted in Reply #30.
@Concerned
Good grief, why are you so invested with the idea that the President doesn't have the power which is clearly spelled out in the Constitution?
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@Concerned
Good grief, why are you so invested with the idea that the President doesn't have the power which is clearly spelled out in the Constitution?
I'm simply invested in honesty and the regulations as they stand today. The words seem pretty clear to me in 28 CFR 600.7. If that regulation is found to be unconstitutional or recinded, it'll be struck down. Until then........................
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@GtHawk
The report is currently classified which means only James Comey or the State Dept can send it out via Yahoo.
@driftdiver
Do I detect a faint whiff of sarcasm?
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@driftdiver
Do I detect a faint whiff of sarcasm?
@sneakypete :whistle: :whistle: :beer:
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According to law, in this case, 28 CFR 600.7, Trump can't fire the special counsel. This has been repeatedly covered by the press for months:
"(d) The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General. The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal."
:seeya:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7)
Easy to circumvent. Simply tell the AG to fire that Rosenhiemer guy and nominate a replacement that will fire Moeller or he is fired too.
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Yes, but that's a really low bar.
Maybe, but it is a bar ...
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Easy to circumvent. Simply tell the AG to fire that Rosenhiemer guy and nominate a replacement that will fire Moeller or he is fired too.
I doubt if that circumvention would work. It’s generally not possible to do indirectly what you cannot do directly.
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I've been hearing rumors about the existence of this bombshell for a week on kook sites. Looks like they got one right.
Now the big question is whether Donny has the balls to start firing people.......including Mueller.
I thought for the longest time these deep-state guys were tinfoil hat wearers, others have called them Russian bots.
But now?
If this thing is true, I may have to get fitted for some tinfoil.
At least it will hide the bald spots.
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Let me get this straight, they just voted to let the NSA not need warrants and they're upset about FISA warrant abuse?
I'm guessing the upsetting "abuse" involved FISA warrants against people in government, seeing that they regard the conduct of signals intelligence (a war measure) against the American people as a whole as right and proper (thereby showing they regard us as an enemy).
It makes sense to me. They must get this done before Bannon and Lewandowski testify to Mueller. They are running out of options to get rid of Mueller and he is getting too close. They need to shut this investigation down so we will be seeing some desperate measures. I understand Twitter has said that the Russian Bots are working overtime on this one.
"The frequency with which the accounts have been promoting the hashtag has spiked by 233,000% over the past 48 hours, according to the site. The accounts’ references to the “memo,†meanwhile, have increased by 68,000%.
The most-shared domain among the accounts has been WikiLeaks, and the most-shared URL has been a link to WikiLeaks’ “submit†page."
http://www.businessinsider.com/release-the-memo-campaign-russia-linked-twitter-accounts-2018-1 (http://www.businessinsider.com/release-the-memo-campaign-russia-linked-twitter-accounts-2018-1)
You would think we should be concerned when one of our enemies is putting this much effort and money into obstructing an investigation involving our President. But I guess not.
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He hasn't the authority to fire Mueller.
Actually, he does.
Now whether it is politically wise......
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@Concerned
The DOJ works for Trump. Trump can fire anyone in the executive branch
But he cannot fire the special investigator/prosecutor. There is a good reason for that for example when the investigation involves the POTUS. The POTUS is not a king and the special investigator does not answer to the President. Wonder if Clinton had tried to fire Starr? What would we all be saying about that? Session recused himself so the only one who can fire Mueller is Rosenstein and he isn't going to do it. That leaves Trump with one option and that is to do what Clinton did and try to discredit Mueller which is what they are attempting to do. The Russians are trying to help which is kind of ironic since this is what Mueller's investigation is investigating :shrug:
We cannot have a President who has power to fire a special investigator/prosecutor. If we do we will be no better than any third world "****hole".
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But he cannot fire the special investigator/prosecutor. There is a good reason for that for example when the investigation involves the POTUS. The POTUS is not a king and the special investigator does not answer to the President. Wonder if Clinton had tried to fire Starr? What would we all be saying about that? Session recused himself so the only one who can fire Mueller is Rosenstein and he isn't going to do it. That leaves Trump with one option and that is to do what Clinton did and try to discredit Mueller which is what they are attempting to do. The Russians are trying to help which is kind of ironic since this is what Mueller's investigation is investigating :shrug:
We cannot have a President who has power to fire a special investigator/prosecutor. If we do we will be no better than any third world "****hole".
Wrong, The President can fire them. That point is without dispute.
Politically it would be suicide.
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Then that law is patently unconstitutional as it encroaches on presidential power.
Actually that law protects our Republic and Constitution. We are not ruled by kings here. If the president can fire a special prosecutor he can effectively shut down any investigation into his administration or himself. Apparently some people are fine with that when the president is playing for their team but what about when the POTUS has a "D" after their name.
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Wrong, The President can fire them. That point is without dispute.
Politically it would be suicide.
Show me in the laws written covering a special prosecutor/investigator that says the president can do this. Until you can point to that this point is not in dispute.
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Actually that law protects our Republic and Constitution. We are not ruled by kings here. If the president can fire a special prosecutor he can effectively shut down any investigation into his administration or himself. Apparently some people are fine with that when the president is playing for their team but what about when the POTUS has a "D" after their name.
Actually, a "Special Prosecutor" has to be appointed by the DOJ. That is why there never was one appointed to investigate obama. He owned his DOJ.
This one on President Trump is pure partisan BS. Deep State/GOPE/ garbage which should never have had life breathed into it's existence.
It is an attempted coup against the President America elected.. from damn near day one...based on a lie.
Sickens this Cruz man actually.
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Show me in the laws written covering a special prosecutor/investigator that says the president can do this. Until you can point to that this point is not in dispute.
See my post 26 on the previous page. One of the people who helped write special counsel rules says it’s possible and states why. It is well within the constitutional power of the executive. Whether it’s a good political move, at this point, is another story.
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Show me in the laws written covering a special prosecutor/investigator that says the president can do this. Until you can point to that this point is not in dispute.
Show me otherwise. Prove your point... that is right, you cannot.
The "Special Prosecutor" is appointed and serves by discretion of the DOJ. An executive department serving at the discretion of the President.
Really, it is not in dispute. The Pres can fire the DOJ head if the DOJ head does not do what he wishes. Including firing a special prosecutor. Hell, the Executive..The Pres can do it himself if he wishes.
Now that may well trigger an impeachment. But the President has sole power over the Executive branch.
Care to prove otherwise?
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Wrong, The President can fire them. That point is without dispute.
Politically it would be suicide.
Not sure I agree; if he doesn't fire Rosenstein it will be political suicide as people are beginning to wonder why he hasn't with all the corruption that is surrounding him and Mueller. However, my hunch is IF the memo is released, he's not going to have to give reason for firing him. The public will be demanding he be fired and held responsible along with a slew of others. BUT, quite honestly, I have very little confidence that this information will be made public and feel that somehow it will be buried along with all the corruption that's been ongoing for at least a decade if not longer.
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Dems now spinning this as "Republican talking points pushed by Russian bots to obfuscate Mueller's investigation".
So, they know what's coming and are trying to discredit it.
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Not sure I agree; if he doesn't fire Rosenstein it will be political suicide as people are beginning to wonder why he hasn't with all the corruption that is surrounding him and Mueller. However, my hunch is IF the memo is released, he's not going to have to give reason for firing him. The public will be demanding he be fired and held responsible along with a slew of others. BUT, quite honestly, I have very little confidence that this information will be made public and feel that somehow it will be buried along with all the corruption that's been ongoing for at least a decade if not longer.
I think we are talking past each other. ^-^
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Not sure I agree; if he doesn't fire Rosenstein it will be political suicide as people are beginning to wonder why he hasn't with all the corruption that is surrounding him and Mueller. However, my hunch is IF the memo is released, he's not going to have to give reason for firing him. The public will be demanding he be fired and held responsible along with a slew of others. BUT, quite honestly, I have very little confidence that this information will be made public and feel that somehow it will be buried along with all the corruption that's been ongoing for at least a decade if not longer.
I think the furor over this is reaching the point where the memo will have to be released.
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It makes sense to me. They must get this done before Bannon and Lewandowski testify to Mueller. They are running out of options to get rid of Mueller and he is getting too close. They need to shut this investigation down so we will be seeing some desperate measures. I understand Twitter has said that the Russian Bots are working overtime on this one.
"The frequency with which the accounts have been promoting the hashtag has spiked by 233,000% over the past 48 hours, according to the site. The accounts’ references to the “memo,†meanwhile, have increased by 68,000%.
The most-shared domain among the accounts has been WikiLeaks, and the most-shared URL has been a link to WikiLeaks’ “submit†page."
http://www.businessinsider.com/release-the-memo-campaign-russia-linked-twitter-accounts-2018-1 (http://www.businessinsider.com/release-the-memo-campaign-russia-linked-twitter-accounts-2018-1)
You would think we should be concerned when one of our enemies is putting this much effort and money into obstructing an investigation involving our President. But I guess not.
I don't think Mueller is the main focus right now. All his spies and goons have been cut out from underneath him. If he had anything credible, he would have gotten an indictment by now. Now with no spies and goons he doesn't have the resources to get what he need using the deep state underworld.