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General Category => Health/Education => Topic started by: rangerrebew on April 22, 2018, 01:46:08 pm

Title: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: rangerrebew on April 22, 2018, 01:46:08 pm

Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
April 20, 2018 by Kristina Davis, The San Diego Union-Tribune

By now you are probably used to the probing questions your doctor asks during your annual checkup.

How have you been sleeping lately? Any increased stress at work? Problems at home? Have you engaged in any risky sexual activity?

Don't be surprised if, in the future, the questioning turns to guns.

With gun violence on the rise over the past few years and mass shootings happening more frequently, physicians are making a renewed push to treat the issue as a public health crisis. And part of that begins in your doctor's office.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-04-dont-doctor-guns.html
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Applewood on April 22, 2018, 04:05:19 pm
Mine started asking about guns several years ago.  Finally, during one exam, I told him, yeah, I have this arsenal and if he gives me any trouble, I'm going to shoot up his office.  Scared his assistant to death, but my doctor knows me well enough to know I was pulling his leg.  The next year, he didn't ask about guns. Told me the question is no longer required. But this year, he did ask if I felt homicidal. LOL
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 22, 2018, 04:17:22 pm
Considering that it's government (rather, make that government with a "big G") that's asking...

I have no problems or qualms whatsoever when it comes to lying about something that is none of their damned business.

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 22, 2018, 04:19:53 pm
The gun debate tends to focus on the "problem" of mass shootings with "assault rifles",  but the biggest reason a lot of rational people don't choose to have a gun in the home is the risk of suicide.    Guns make suicide quick and convenient,  and therefore attractive as a way out of depression and anxiety.    And that's why doctors ask about it,  and see firearms ownership as a public health issue.   Thousands and thousands of lives are lost each year to gun-assisted suicide.   How many of us haven't known a friend or relative or colleague who's been touched by it? 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Applewood on April 22, 2018, 04:30:21 pm
The gun debate tends to focus on the "problem" of mass shootings with "assault rifles",  but the biggest reason a lot of rational people don't choose to have a gun in the home is the risk of suicide.    Guns make suicide quick and convenient,  and therefore attractive as a way out of depression and anxiety.    And that's why doctors ask about it,  and see firearms ownership as a public health issue.   Thousands and thousands of lives are lost each year to gun-assisted suicide.   How many of us haven't known a friend or relative or colleague who's been touched by it?

Well, I don't have guns because of my bad eyesight and coordination.  If someone broke into my house, I'd probably shoot everyone and everything but the intruder. 

I actually thought since the doctor started asking sometime after Obamacare was passed that it was an Obamacare requirement.  Or maybe a requirement from my insurance carrier. 

You may be right about suicides. Personally though if that's the reason for the question, it's kinda foolish.  As with murder, if a person wanted to off himself, there are other ways to do so without firearms.  So if a person is suicidal, should we take away not only his guns, but also his knives, medications, maybe even his gas range?    Seems silly to me.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: truth_seeker on April 22, 2018, 04:40:44 pm
Not a single doctor has ever asked me anything about guns, period.

Or even about knives, explosives, or assault vehicles for that matter.

Further I have filled out several Medical History forms lately, and not a single question on guns.

Meanwhile a homeless crazy man, stabbled a man in the neck and killed him, in Ventura CA....just days ago.

He was "on the radar," but police had determined he posed no danger.

So perhaps in questioning their patients re. risks to their health, a better line of inquiry might be about the PEOPLE in their lives.

I wonder how many bedridden elderly are victims of "attack pillows?"

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 22, 2018, 05:25:39 pm
Considering that it's government (rather, make that government with a "big G") that's asking...

I have no problems or qualms whatsoever when it comes to lying about something that is none of their damned business.

"Just say 'No.'"  No matter what.  Such a time is not the time to lecture somebody on the right to be left alone.

If any word other than "No!" comes from your mouth when asked this question, the Doctor, who is really not in your employ will write down "Yes" (he/she works for the State Licensing Board).  To a bureaucrat, it's a binary question.  "Nunya bidness" will be taken as a "Yes!"
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 22, 2018, 05:40:46 pm
"Just say 'No.'"  No matter what.  Such a time is not the time to lecture somebody on the right to be left alone.

If any word other than "No!" comes from your mouth when asked this question, the Doctor, who is really not in your employ will write down "Yes" (he/she works for the State Licensing Board).  To a bureaucrat, it's a binary question.  "Nunya bidness" will be taken as a "Yes!"

Exactly.  And don't even make threats in jest.  For all we know, the "G" has commanded doctors to report ANY threats of violence, even if done in humor.

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: GtHawk on April 22, 2018, 05:51:08 pm
It's part of the annual physical questions, like are you depressed, are you sexually active, does anyone in your home make you afraid. When the ask me 'Do you have a gun in your home?' I always answer honestly "No I do not have A gun in my home", I mean why take it out on the doctor or office personnel for asking a question the government makes them. I mean it's not like most people don't lie to their doctors most of the time anyway. :shrug:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 22, 2018, 05:55:47 pm
LOL! I would laugh my ass off if my doc asked me that sort of shit. Never happened. Probably never will... And the answer is self-evident.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 22, 2018, 06:06:49 pm
LOL! I would laugh my ass off if my doc asked me that sort of shit. Never happened. Probably never will... And the answer is self-evident.

Where you live you would probably be certifiable if you DIDN'T own a weapon. 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: GtHawk on April 22, 2018, 06:20:19 pm
Where you live you would probably be certifiable if you DIDN'T own a weapon.
Isn't that true for all of us anyway?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 22, 2018, 06:24:38 pm
"Just say 'No.'"  No matter what.  Such a time is not the time to lecture somebody on the right to be left alone.If any word other than "No!" comes from your mouth when asked this question, the Doctor, who is really not in your employ will write down "Yes" (he/she works for the State Licensing Board).  To a bureaucrat, it's a binary question.  "Nunya bidness" will be taken as a "Yes!"
@Cyber Liberty

My doctor asks one question followed by two short comments.  He asks, "Is your emergency book out yet?" Followed by, "I'm buying it."  Followed by, "In an emergency, I'm coming to your house to live."  He knows I have an arsenal and is counting on me having them.  We have two extra bedrooms and he has claim on one.  As long as he brings a stack of medicine, he is welcome.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: dfwgator on April 22, 2018, 07:20:01 pm
Then the doctor shouldn't be surprised when my answer is, "It's none of your f'ing business."
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 22, 2018, 07:48:36 pm
@Cyber Liberty

My doctor asks one question followed by two short comments.  He asks, "Is your emergency book out yet?" Followed by, "I'm buying it."  Followed by, "In an emergency, I'm coming to your house to live."  He knows I have an arsenal and is counting on me having them.  We have two extra bedrooms and he has claim on one.  As long as he brings a stack of medicine, he is welcome.

If I lived near you, I'd have a tent and a couple bug-out bags ready to go to your house. ^-^
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: WingNot on April 22, 2018, 07:55:22 pm
If I lived near you, I'd have a tent and a couple bug-out bags ready to go to your house. ^-^

Try Roamer's place.  Better class of vermin where he lives.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 22, 2018, 08:11:53 pm
Try Roamer's place.  Better class of vermin where he lives.

@Victoria33 has better weather.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 22, 2018, 08:15:12 pm
@Victoria33 has better weather.

Sorry, no... Cold can be dealt with... heat, not so much.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 22, 2018, 08:28:09 pm
Sorry, no... Cold can be dealt with... heat, not so much.

Depends on the person.  I was raised in Michigan, and I found that cold was not something I could deal with.  It was the digging my car out from under the show to get to class/work, and the fact that my feet were constantly cold.  That's how I ended up in Phoenix. 

Now, after 40 or so years, I'm finding Summers more difficult to get through, so we're looking for something in between to retire.  Sedona is where Mrs. Liberty is starting to window shop houses.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 22, 2018, 08:31:04 pm
Sorry, no... Cold can be dealt with... heat, not so much.
@Cyber Liberty
@roamer_1

Not to worry, Cyber.  I have battery fans with unending battery power and certain type missing fans that cool the ambient air around you and special type towels that do not drip water but hold water in them and one goes around your neck and will cool you down for hours as water evaporates, before you need to dip it in water, again.

I have gone through numerous hurricanes, losing power, in hot weather and stayed cool.

Winter is not a problem, either.  Have devices to keep you warm.  I do not want to be in subzero weather.

I have seven ways to cook and will never run out of fuel.  Will never run out of pure water - I can make pure water out of water in a ditch.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 22, 2018, 08:44:27 pm
Depends on the person.  I was raised in Michigan, and I found that cold was not something I could deal with.  It was the digging my car out from under the show to get to class/work, and the fact that my feet were constantly cold.  That's how I ended up in Phoenix. 

Now, after 40 or so years, I'm finding Summers more difficult to get through, so we're looking for something in between to retire.  Sedona is where Mrs. Liberty is starting to window shop houses.

 :shrug: Six of one...
I have plentiful potable surface water, plentiful game, and plentiful wood, both for building and for heat, out there in the bush. If SHTF, I do not need to maintain a castle - I will hold to 'castle' thinking while I can, but I can go 'ranger' at any given moment... I will trade all that for a little cold any day.

But then, I know how to be comfortable in any weather these mountains can throw... I can be snug as a bug out in the bush with temps hovering around -30.

Desert, not so much. Water is scarce and needs to be made potable, game is scarce, and endless days over 95 degrees with no means of mediation makes for a tough set of problems if you get kicked out of your castle.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: WingNot on April 22, 2018, 08:51:21 pm
I don't know where Roamer roams but I'm Heading to Montana if SHTF   Gonna Do my pilgrim imitation and get into Jeremiah Johnson mode.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 22, 2018, 08:52:55 pm
I don't know where Roamer roams but I'm Heading to Montana if SHTF   Gonna Do my pilgrim imitation and get into Jeremiah Johnson mode.

That's my gig.  :beer:

Better come early and get to learning.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: WingNot on April 22, 2018, 08:59:18 pm
That's my gig.  :beer:

Better come early and get to learning.

You have done well to keep so much hair, when so many's after it. I hope... you will fare well. And Maybe we will cross paths. The Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 22, 2018, 09:04:14 pm
You have done well to keep so much hair, when so many's after it. I hope... you will fare well. And Maybe we will cross paths. The Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world.

That's right... Don't let em take your topknot.  :beer:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 23, 2018, 01:43:21 pm
:shrug: Six of one...
I have plentiful potable surface water, plentiful game, and plentiful wood, both for building and for heat, out there in the bush. If SHTF, I do not need to maintain a castle - I will hold to 'castle' thinking while I can, but I can go 'ranger' at any given moment... I will trade all that for a little cold any day.

Desert, not so much. Water is scarce and needs to be made potable, game is scarce, and endless days over 95 degrees with no means of mediation makes for a tough set of problems if you get kicked out of your castle.
@roamer_1
@Cyber Liberty

My purpose in preparing for an emergency, and why I wrote the book, is to keep a family living as normal as possible so they don't have to "live in the wild".  I would not live in a desert or in a state with extremely low temperatures.  However, the desert would be worse than low temperatures.  Using instructions in my book, if a family has to leave their house, they can take their life saving items with them as they are portable.  They will not be too hot or too cold with these items.

Ii have used all the methods in my book to live well after a  hurricane takes out power or anything takes out power.  I had that happen one time when I had to leave the house suddenly - power suddenly went off and I had just gotten husband out of the hospital after a serious surgery.  I had to get him to a cool place because he was so ill.  The electric company said they didn't know why it went off and didn't know when it would come back.  From Galveston north through Lufkin, Texas, hundreds of miles, there was no power and east to west it was off for many miles.  Luckily, the car was full of gas and I had cash, so put him in the car and started west as a neighbor had spoken to her sister, and there was power 50+ miles west.  It was dark and no stop lights worked.  It was very dangerous on roads until I got out of city roads.

I was not prepared then to get out of the house quickly, and didn't have enough methods to stay cool in the house.  Now, I am prepared for staying or leaving.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 23, 2018, 02:07:11 pm
@Cyber Liberty
@roamer_1

Not to worry, Cyber.  I have battery fans with unending battery power and certain type missing fans that cool the ambient air around you and special type towels that do not drip water but hold water in them and one goes around your neck and will cool you down for hours as water evaporates, before you need to dip it in water, again.

I have gone through numerous hurricanes, losing power, in hot weather and stayed cool.

Winter is not a problem, either.  Have devices to keep you warm.  I do not want to be in subzero weather.

I have seven ways to cook and will never run out of fuel.  Will never run out of pure water - I can make pure water out of water in a ditch.

Even if the water is contaminated with biological agents?  I figure if we ever do get "hit"... they will throw everything they've got at us.  They'll figure they have to.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 23, 2018, 04:11:48 pm
I was not prepared then to get out of the house quickly, and didn't have enough methods to stay cool in the house.  Now, I am prepared for staying or leaving.

@Victoria33
Yep.
And I got caught  needing to walk off a time or two, and had a more than uncomfortable time... But that's how we learn, I guess.

I will maintain the castle... Of course it is the best and easiest place for me to survive. I have about 2 years worth of food and wood, with unlimited water. It is ready to go unplugged ~wholly off grid~ with no loss, but for the freezers and the fridge...

I also have two incidental fall-back positions, where I can move my 'castle' if I have the time to load it up.

One is a co-op where I have an honorary membership, and where I have contributed better than a year's worth of arms, wood, and long term freeze-dried food. My whole family is represented there, and that is where we will go if our primary locations are compromised.

The other is an off-grid, off-map hunting camp where I have a small cabin and a large root cellar, again with an emergency cache of arms and food, where I can personally disappear indefinitely.

Both are incidental - Neither was prepared for the purpose of SHTF, and I am not really a prepper in the proper sense. but either one will serve as a secondary 'castled' position where I can go and hunker down long term. Both have the capacity to absorb my entire storage from my primary position, if I can move it there, and both will serve admirably as a cushion and a jumping off place if I have to go ranger.

And lastly, if the need arises, I can always go ranger, with nothing more than my go-bag.  I am capable of indefinite primitive living, and I am well trained to live off the land. To be honest, in my present condition, I don't know that I can survive like that, and I certainly couldn't care for my family like that (like I once could), but even with a couple fairly bad physical strikes against me, I would still bet my chances are better than most - depending upon the season when walking off became necessary.

It's more about thinking and know-how, and managing risk, and that mindset is still there, regardless of my physical ability.

So while I can, I will plan to 'castle'... At my primary, or either or both of my secondary locations - With access to all three, I reckon I can live for around 5 years without a whole bunch of trouble.

My pickup also works as an extension of that - with full tanks, the doghouse on the back, packed full of food, and a canoe on the top, I could live pretty good for a fairly long time, without having to go full native... with comms and rudimentary solar, and mobility so long as there are fuel and funds available. Add the trailer, with a 4wheeler and/or snow machine, and I am pretty set for a few months, even if I have to take off in the dead of winter.

And lastly, just walking off, if I had to.

It is a pretty good way, with several distributed methods, and options - all with advantages, albeit with diminishing returns. And again, it isn't done with a prepper mindset - It's more a way-of-life that leaves me with those decided advantages.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 23, 2018, 05:03:05 pm
@roamer_1

Yes, you are a "prepper" as our parents were preppers. This word, in modern days, has come to represent "crazy" people with guns and beans living in the wild.  "Survivalist" is even a worse word for these people.  These are mainly militant groups.  That is not what my book is about, although there is a self defense chapter.  It would be ridiculous not to include a way to defend oneself.

The original preppers were our parents/grandparents.  You and I are old enough to know how our parents/grandparents lived.  In my parent's generation, there was no government hand-out if an emergency happened.  They grew food, they canned food, they had pigs and maybe a cow and had chickens.  Their food was all around them; it was my grandparents who had wood stoves for cooking and staying warm.  In preparing, as in prepper, I simply returned to how people lived before they had power.  My grandparents had no electricity and I went there with my parents when I was a child.  I saw how that worked. 

I also studied American Indians, how they did it.  There are several American Indian recipes in my book, mainly their simple breads.  A few are the same breads our cowboys made and ate on the range along with the first settlers in this country.  Hoe bread is there.

There is a section of my book titled, "We Did It To Ourselves".  We depend on others to keep us alive - utility company power, utility company water, grocery store food.  I worked out ways to live without the power company, the water company, the grocery store.  This is life insurance like car insurance, house insurance, but living is more important.

I don't know anyone at the power company and don't know anyone at the water utility.  I am not willing to let them decide whether I live or die.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Texas Yellow Rose on April 23, 2018, 05:27:33 pm
It's part of the annual physical questions, like are you depressed, are you sexually active, does anyone in your home make you afraid. When the ask me 'Do you have a gun in your home?' I always answer honestly "No I do not have A gun in my home", I mean why take it out on the doctor or office personnel for asking a question the government makes them. I mean it's not like most people don't lie to their doctors most of the time anyway. :shrug:

That's right and I HATE those questions and won't answer ANY OF THEM.  Those physical questions were for me.  A doctor DID ask one of my granddaughters questions about guns and cigarettes in the home.  My daughter had already schooled them in what to say.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: GrouchoTex on April 23, 2018, 05:38:00 pm
The only person I am aware of who has been asked this question was my daughter and son-in-law.

About 3 years ago, it was a new family doctor they were going to.

They asked why was that relevant, but didn't get a straight answer.

My son-in-law seems to think it was because he was a Navy vet.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 23, 2018, 06:13:56 pm
Yes, you are a "prepper" as our parents were preppers.

@Victoria33
That's right.

Quote
The original preppers were our parents/grandparents.  You and I are old enough to know how our parents/grandparents lived. [...] Their food was all around them; it was my grandparents who had wood stoves for cooking and staying warm.  In preparing, as in prepper, I simply returned to how people lived before they had power.


That's right too - Except in that most of that is still so here - I grew up that way. We always had power and gas heat, but it was treated as supplemental. Shoot, we JUST last year, finally got rid of the outhouse. I grew up with chickens and beef, butchering our own and canning it up over a wood fire. I grew up with a truck garden, processing and canning all that... I grew up hunting and trapping and fishing... It isn't far removed here, even from this generation.

Quote
I also studied American Indians, how they did it.  [...]  A few are the same breads our cowboys made and ate on the range along with the first settlers in this country.  Hoe bread is there.

Yep... a part of my every day... We ate bannock bread and fry bread last week... Pemmican is part of my normal.

Quote
There is a section of my book titled, "We Did It To Ourselves".  We depend on others to keep us alive [...] I am not willing to let them decide whether I live or die.

True that. It is why I so often can't comprehend my countrymen. My brother lives in Nashville TN area, and according to him (and his lifestyle) no one goes outside in the summer... the heat and humidity is too oppressive... So all the spaces are air conditioned, to include recreation facilities... Don't all them folks know that if the electricity goes down, they'll be forced, unready, back into the elements? Our conveniences have utterly sapped our independence.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 23, 2018, 06:30:11 pm
Even if the water is contaminated with biological agents?  I figure if we ever do get "hit"... they will throw everything they've got at us.  They'll figure they have to.

@XenaLee
Depends on the agents, but yes with the correct tools the biological agents will be filtered out.  Most bio and chem agents are sensitive to UV as well.  I'll let you do a search on biological agents and water supply to confirm as I don't want to appear on any more DHS alerts.

The CDC site does list water as a method of distributing some of these weapons.  https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp

A ton of variables so its safer to filter all drinking water.

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 23, 2018, 06:38:16 pm
@XenaLee
Depends on the agents, but yes with the correct tools the biological agents will be filtered out.  Most bio and chem agents are sensitive to UV as well.  I'll let you do a search on biological agents and water supply to confirm as I don't want to appear on any more DHS alerts.

The CDC site does list water as a method of distributing some of these weapons. https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp

A ton of variables so its safer to filter all drinking water.

Call me paranoid... but I'm surprised they haven't already done something to our water supply.  It would follow. Except that... if they have dreams of taking over the USA, it would be harshing their buzz too in the long run. 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 23, 2018, 06:39:13 pm
Even if the water is contaminated with biological agents?  I figure if we ever do get "hit"... they will throw everything they've got at us.  They'll figure they have to.
@XenaLee

The entire water system goes away if the entire power system goes away (except for people who have a well).  The attacker doesn't have to put anything in the water as it isn't going anywhere.  No point to put something in it, just turn off the power.  People start to die after three days without water.  Look up Berkey water purifier on line and read how it works to provide pure water.  It is a "purifier" not just a filter.

So, take out all power, stop all water.  To infect all water in the country would be hugely difficult to do.  A Berkey would purify it but a rogue country isn't going to poison "some" water; they are going to take out all the power, thereby stopping all the water and killing millions.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 23, 2018, 06:43:16 pm
Call me paranoid... but I'm surprised they haven't already done something to our water supply.  It would follow. Except that... if they have dreams of taking over the USA, it would be harshing their buzz too in the long run.

@XenaLee
From my Air Force training making these agents really isn't the hard part.  Delivery is much harder.  yes you can hit small numbers of people but hitting an entire city is actually quite complex and would require a lot of resources. 

Putting any of these in a water supply would require a large volume of whatever they were using.   I think our govt is also watching those places fairly closely.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 23, 2018, 06:57:42 pm
@XenaLee

The entire water system goes away if the entire power system goes away (except for people who have a well).  The attacker doesn't have to put anything in the water as it isn't going anywhere.  No point to put something in it, just turn off the power.  People start to die after three days without water.  Look up Berkey water purifier on line and read how it works to provide pure water.  It is a "purifier" not just a filter.

So, take out all power, stop all water.  To infect all water in the country would be hugely difficult to do.  A Berkey would purify it but a rogue country isn't going to poison "some" water; they are going to take out all the power, thereby stopping all the water and killing millions.

I probably can't afford what they're charging for that filter.... but there's a creek in walking distance from me where I could get water if I ran out of my supply.  Would a Brita pitcher work?  lololol
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on April 23, 2018, 07:00:08 pm
How did we go from doctor's asking about guns to water purification exactly?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 23, 2018, 07:00:40 pm
@XenaLee
From my Air Force training making these agents really isn't the hard part.  Delivery is much harder.  yes you can hit small numbers of people but hitting an entire city is actually quite complex and would require a lot of resources. 

Putting any of these in a water supply would require a large volume of whatever they were using.   I think our govt is also watching those places fairly closely.

Probably....but considering stuff I've heard/seen lately, I wouldn't stake my life on their effectiveness.

I guess I'm more worried about the desperate people in and around the big cities who have run out of stuff when TSHTF.  I probably watch too much TV (The Walking Dead) though....hahaha.

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 23, 2018, 07:01:48 pm
How did we go from doctor's asking about guns to water purification exactly?

Don't look at it. I blame the wommen
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 23, 2018, 07:02:04 pm
I probably can't afford what they're charging for that filter.... but there's a creek in walking distance from me where I could get water if I ran out of my supply.  Would a Brita pitcher work?  lololol
@XenaLee

No, Brita is not a purifier, won't purify raw water coming from a creek or anywhere else.  Boil creek water.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 23, 2018, 07:02:10 pm
How did we go from doctor's asking about guns to water purification exactly?

Are you the Forum Topic Monitor today? 

Good to know.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 23, 2018, 07:03:59 pm
@XenaLee

No, Brita is not a purifier, won't purify raw water coming from a creek or anywhere else.  Boil creek water.

Yeah, I have a fireplace and lots of firewood.  I was just kidding about the Brita.  I can afford a 'little' more expensive filter system than that...lol.   Do you know of any in the $200 range?

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 23, 2018, 07:04:35 pm
Don't look at it. I blame the wommen

We love to fundamentally transform threads, dontcha know.

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 23, 2018, 07:05:37 pm
Yeah, I have a fireplace and lots of firewood.  I was just kidding about the Brita.  I can afford a 'little' more expensive filter system than that...lol.   Do you know of any in the $200 range?

@XenaLee
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Z63U8G/ref=asc_df_B002Z63U8G5449988/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B002Z63U8G&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193156951420&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11996039567185829515&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012086&hvtargid=pla-309012006224 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Z63U8G/ref=asc_df_B002Z63U8G5449988/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B002Z63U8G&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193156951420&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11996039567185829515&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012086&hvtargid=pla-309012006224)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51W-f9kKDwL._SL1200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 23, 2018, 07:08:01 pm
You may be right about suicides. Personally though if that's the reason for the question, it's kinda foolish.  As with murder, if a person wanted to off himself, there are other ways to do so without firearms.  So if a person is suicidal, should we take away not only his guns, but also his knives, medications, maybe even his gas range?    Seems silly to me.

The numbers are grim:  According to the latest numbers I found,  60 percent of all adult firearm deaths are by suicide.  And 51 percent of all suicides are committed by gun.

Guns are quick and efficient killing machines.  An individual wracked by temporary depression will turn to a gun when the impulse strikes;  whereas if there was no gun in the house he may think twice, or three times, because of the need to plan and the fear of having to suffer a slow and painful death.   

The numbers don't lie - if you have a gun in your house, it is far more likely to be used by a family member to commit suicide than to prevent a home invasion.  Lots of rational folks conclude that the best way to protect your family is to keep a gun out of the house.   

Go ahead and lie to the doc when he asks his questions.   But think about your family, your friends, your fellow church members and your colleagues - most all of us know someone who has been touched by the tragedy of suicide.  And in half of those cases, statistically,  that person may well be alive today if there weren't a gun in the house.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 23, 2018, 07:11:44 pm
The numbers are grim:  According to the latest numbers I found,  60 percent of all adult firearm deaths are by suicide.  And 51 percent of all suicides are committed by gun.

Guns are quick and efficient killing machines.  An individual wracked by temporary depression will turn to a gun when the impulse strikes;  whereas if there was no gun in the house he may think twice, or three times, because of the need to plan and the fear of having to suffer a slow and painful death.   

The numbers don't lie - if you have a gun in your house, it is far more likely to be used by a family member to commit suicide than to prevent a home invasion.  Lots of rational folks conclude that the best way to protect your family is to keep a gun out of the house.   

Go ahead and lie to the doc when he asks his questions.   But think about your family, your friends, your fellow church members and your colleagues - most all of us know someone who has been touched by the tragedy of suicide.  And in half of those cases, statistically,  that person may well be alive today if there weren't a gun in the house.

The numbers don't lie.  When guns are not readily available, it doesn't prevent suicides.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/30/national/social-issues/preventive-efforts-seen-helping-2016-saw-another-decline-suicides-japan-21897/#.Wt4vlYjwY2w (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/30/national/social-issues/preventive-efforts-seen-helping-2016-saw-another-decline-suicides-japan-21897/#.Wt4vlYjwY2w)

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 23, 2018, 07:11:58 pm
Yeah, I have a fireplace and lots of firewood.  I was just kidding about the Brita.  I can afford a 'little' more expensive filter system than that...lol.   Do you know of any in the $200 range?

I have no means of purifying... no filters, no chemicals...
But I do have stock pots to boil on a wood fire, and if called for, can convert that easily to a water still. Learn how to make a still and have the parts available... it's a simple thing.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 23, 2018, 07:12:04 pm
The numbers are grim:  According to the latest numbers I found,  60 percent of all adult firearm deaths are by suicide.  And 51 percent of all suicides are committed by gun.

Guns are quick and efficient killing machines.  An individual wracked by temporary depression will turn to a gun when the impulse strikes;  whereas if there was no gun in the house he may think twice, or three times, because of the need to plan and the fear of having to suffer a slow and painful death.   

The numbers don't lie - if you have a gun in your house, it is far more likely to be used by a family member to commit suicide than to prevent a home invasion.  Lots of rational folks conclude that the best way to protect your family is to keep a gun out of the house.   

Go ahead and lie to the doc when he asks his questions.   But think about your family, your friends, your fellow church members and your colleagues - most all of us know someone who has been touched by the tragedy of suicide.  And in half of those cases, statistically,  that person may well be alive today if there weren't a gun in the house.

@Jazzhead
Any actual proof of this?

Men are far more likely to use a gun.  Women tend to use drugs, cutting or other method that doesn't 1) mess up their face and 2) make a mess.

Suicide rates in Japan are quite high and their gun ownership is low.   Which tends to undercut your theory all to hades.  Suicide is far more complex then the availability of firearms.   

Of far more importance is proper care for those who have mental health issues and proper support for those who need it.

Ironically when gun control isn't the topic liberals (yourself included) are known to argue for the legalization of suicide.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 23, 2018, 07:15:07 pm
I have no means of purifying... no filters, no chemicals...
But I do have stock pots to boil on a wood fire, and if called for, can convert that easily to a water still. Learn how to make a still and have the parts available... it's a simple thing.

Boiling will sanitize the water but it won't purify it.  The difference being bacteria and viruses are killed by high temperature but chemicals like pesticides, lead, radioactive fallout are not.   So it depends on the source and the circumstance.  Additionally, boiling requires a lot of wood.   Something you may not want to run out and cut when food is low.

Stills will purify, if you have the wood.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 23, 2018, 07:21:09 pm
I have no means of purifying... no filters, no chemicals...
But I do have stock pots to boil on a wood fire, and if called for, can convert that easily to a water still. Learn how to make a still and have the parts available... it's a simple thing.

@roamer_1
BTW,  sand and charcoal are both effective for basic water purification.   It wont get the bacteria/virus but will get most of the floaties and even some of the chemicals (charcoal).

Create a large funnel and have a couple feet of each with sand being on top.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 23, 2018, 07:24:44 pm
Building will sanitize the water but it won't purify it.  The difference being bacteria and viruses are killed by high temperature but chemicals like pesticides, lead, radioactive fallout are not.   So it depends on the source and the circumstance.  Additionally, boiling requires a lot of wood.   Something you may not want to run out and cut when food is low.

Stills will purify, if you have the wood.

@driftdiver

YEP. But that's where I am... In deep forest. One thing I've got is wood. And water is mostly potable here... so unless I am pulling water out of a lake or beaver pond, I generally don't even need to boil. So the emphasis is more on containers that can boil, and the still as a precaution. But to be sure, the still is used for... other things... so it's purpose for water purity is incidental. :D
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Restored on April 23, 2018, 07:25:31 pm
Any camping store will have a filter with a pump. A little Clorox rounds out the deal. It's basic Appalachian Trail knowledge.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 23, 2018, 07:28:25 pm
Yeah, I have a fireplace and lots of firewood.  I was just kidding about the Brita.  I can afford a 'little' more expensive filter system than that...lol.   Do you know of any in the $200 range?
\
@XenaLee

Get the Big Berkey @driftdiver just posted.  Will purify water from a ditch, any kind of water.  If water has dirt in it, filter as much of the dirt out as possible using coffee filters.  When as clean as possible, filter through the Berkey and you have pure water.  You can count on this filter working, any home made gizmo will not work as well as the Berkey.  You must have pure water in an emergency where water is affected, such as water system out due to hurricane or the hurricane took out utility water purification and the water is contaminated, or tornado did that, etc.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 23, 2018, 07:29:33 pm
@roamer_1
BTW,  sand and charcoal are both effective for basic water purification.   It wont get the bacteria/virus but will get most of the floaties and even some of the chemicals (charcoal).

Create a large funnel and have a couple feet of each with sand being on top.

Yep - Creek-side sand-point does about the same thing... two or three long strides away from a creek, and dig a hole. At least that is so here, where creeks are clear water, and running in sand and gravel.
 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 23, 2018, 07:31:11 pm
@driftdiver

YEP. But that's where I am... In deep forest. One thing I've got is wood. And water is mostly potable here... so unless I am pulling water out of a lake or beaver pond, I generally don't even need to boil. So the emphasis is more on containers that can boil, and the still as a precaution. But to be sure, the still is used for... other things... so it's purpose for water purity is incidental. :D

Im in Florida.   If I go down about 12 inches I get water, not clean but its wet.   Put a pipe down about 50 feet and hit the aquifer.   Never a need to even filter that water.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: catfish1957 on April 23, 2018, 07:37:25 pm
Call me paranoid... but I'm surprised they haven't already done something to our water supply.  It would follow. Except that... if they have dreams of taking over the USA, it would be harshing their buzz too in the long run.

That is why I have a 565' groundwater well. (Garden and backup water supply)
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on April 23, 2018, 07:44:37 pm
You guys should watch Wild Wild Country. The nation's one and only bioterrorism attack was committed by a cult and they tried to hit the water supply (it was apparently ineffective).
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 23, 2018, 07:50:09 pm
You guys should watch Wild Wild Country. The nation's one and only bioterrorism attack was committed by a cult and they tried to hit the water supply (it was apparently ineffective).

I thought the largest US bio-terrorism attack hit salad bars with salmonella.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2014/01/09/the_largest_bioterror_attack_in_us_history_began_at_taco_time_in_the_dalles.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2014/01/09/the_largest_bioterror_attack_in_us_history_began_at_taco_time_in_the_dalles.html)
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 23, 2018, 07:53:23 pm
Im in Florida.   If I go down about 12 inches I get water, not clean but its wet.   Put a pipe down about 50 feet and hit the aquifer.   Never a need to even filter that water.

@driftdiver
Fifty FEET? Heck, you could dang near put a sandpoint on the end of a pipe and drive it in with a post pounder... Lucky you.

Our aquifer where I am is about 120' down through rock... so it's a job to get at it. but we have springs just about everywhere, and they feed the creeks. so head waters and glacial waters are always pure.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 23, 2018, 07:56:05 pm
...glacial waters are always pure.

My experience with glacial waters in Alaska were so heavy with minerals they were completely undrinkable.  Mouth would pucker up so bad it was almost impossible to swallow.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 23, 2018, 07:57:14 pm
Lots of rational folks conclude that the best way to protect your family is to keep a gun out of the house.     

Your ignorance in this matter is simply invincible @Jazzhead .
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 23, 2018, 07:58:53 pm
My experience with glacial waters in Alaska were so heavy with minerals they were completely undrinkable.  Mouth would pucker up so bad it was almost impossible to swallow.

Not so here. Sweet water. But then our glaciers don't have the travel AK's glaciers do.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 23, 2018, 07:59:06 pm
@Jazzhead
Any actual proof of this?

,

I recall a study of Israeli soldiers, who had a high suicide rate.  When the rules were changed to bar soldiers from taking their service weapons home on weekends, the suicide rate fell by 40%.

Guns are uniquely quick and efficient, and lend themselves well to "impulse" suicides.  If you want to cite some NRA-financed study to the contrary, go right ahead.  But it seems like common sense to me. 

Mind you,  I'm not trying to take your guns away.  But in your zeal to defend these killing devices, recognize that there is a rational argument for never having one anywhere near one's home and family.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 23, 2018, 08:04:33 pm
[...] recognize that there is a rational argument for never having one anywhere near one's home and family.   

Right up to the point where you need one.  *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 23, 2018, 08:08:02 pm
Mind you,  I'm not trying to take your guns away.   

Does anybody remain who believe that assertion?  The only reason you claim you aren't trying to do that is because you know you can't directly, and are instead nibbling at the edges with measures like registration that you know will get that confiscation you want so badly, eventually.

Well, we're not fooled.  We will not comply with the measures you proclaim so innocent.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 23, 2018, 08:23:24 pm
\
@XenaLee

Get the Big Berkey @driftdiver just posted.  Will purify water from a ditch, any kind of water.  If water has dirt in it, filter as much of the dirt out as possible using coffee filters.  When as clean as possible, filter through the Berkey and you have pure water.  You can count on this filter working, any home made gizmo will not work as well as the Berkey.  You must have pure water in an emergency where water is affected, such as water system out due to hurricane or the hurricane took out utility water purification and the water is contaminated, or tornado did that, etc.

That sounds perfect.  And.... Amazon is reminding me that I have a $25 gift card balance I could apply.  Thanks guys!  @Victoria33 @driftdiver
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: truth_seeker on April 23, 2018, 08:50:25 pm
Just completed multi-page medical history questionnaire in California.

No questions about guns, not do I recall ever having such questions.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 23, 2018, 08:53:14 pm
Just completed multi-page medical history questionnaire in California.

No questions about guns, not do I recall ever having such questions.

Me neither.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on April 24, 2018, 11:22:01 am
I thought the largest US bio-terrorism attack hit salad bars with salmonella.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2014/01/09/the_largest_bioterror_attack_in_us_history_began_at_taco_time_in_the_dalles.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2014/01/09/the_largest_bioterror_attack_in_us_history_began_at_taco_time_in_the_dalles.html)

They tried to hit the water supply too, but it didn't work.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 12:52:20 pm
Does anybody remain who believe that assertion?  The only reason you claim you aren't trying to do that is because you know you can't directly, and are instead nibbling at the edges with measures like registration that you know will get that confiscation you want so badly, eventually.

Well, we're not fooled.  We will not comply with the measures you proclaim so innocent.

Why would I want to confiscate guns?  Sure, I support registration, but I've been consistent in opposing the leftwing bullcrap ideas like banning "assault" weapons.  You want to play GI Joe?  Go right ahead!   

All I'm advocating is that gun owners take responsibility for the potentially dangerous devices they choose to keep.   But I can see that taking personal responsibility is an alien concept to folks who vow to lie to their own doctors.   *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 01:14:44 pm
Why would I want to confiscate guns?  Sure, I support registration, but I've been consistent in opposing the leftwing bullcrap ideas like banning "assault" weapons.  You want to play GI Joe?  Go right ahead!   

All I'm advocating is that gun owners take responsibility for the potentially dangerous devices they choose to keep.   But I can see that taking personal responsibility is an alien concept to folks who vow to lie to their own doctors.   *****rollingeyes*****

It's not my job to suss out why you would want to confiscate weapons, I'll leave that to others.  I just think you do based on many months of hearing every gun-grabbing buzzword come across your posts.  Your mocking and insulting good people will get you nowhere.

As for the information between my Dr. and me:  That confidentiality has already been violated both by the government bureaucracy and the Docs. themselves.  Doctors have become information ports to people I don't know or trust to have my health concerns foremost.  They're doing it with choking off painkillers to people suffering, so I'm sure they'll be delighted to help choke off guns to people who pose no risk to society.  It's unfortunate, I agree, but it is what it is.

It's even less your business than it is theirs.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 01:30:43 pm
  Your mocking and insulting good people will get you nowhere.


Asking gun owners to take responsibility for their weapons is "mocking and insulting"?    *****rollingeyes*****

Too many folks have chips on their shoulder.   The community reasonably requires folks to register their cars before using them for their intended purpose.   It is just as reasonable to require gun owners to conduct all purchases and transfers of their guns by documented means.  It is unreasonable to jump to the conclusion that such a requirement masks a secret agenda of confiscation.   Gun owners have little faith in the Constitution when they demand the right to live separate and apart from the community.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 01:33:23 pm
@Jazzhead "You want to play GI Joe?  Go right ahead!"

In what context is that not an insult, or mocking?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 01:38:35 pm
,

I recall a study of Israeli soldiers, who had a high suicide rate.  When the rules were changed to bar soldiers from taking their service weapons home on weekends, the suicide rate fell by 40%.

Guns are uniquely quick and efficient, and lend themselves well to "impulse" suicides.  If you want to cite some NRA-financed study to the contrary, go right ahead.  But it seems like common sense to me. 

Mind you,  I'm not trying to take your guns away.  But in your zeal to defend these killing devices, recognize that there is a rational argument for never having one anywhere near one's home and family.   

@Jazzhead
Picking military members as an example is pretty weak.  They are a high risk group for many reasons but it reveals how weak your position is and your agenda that you seek to hide.

You've repeatedly said you don't want to take away peoples guns and then you post this drivel.  BTW I don't think anyone should be forced to own a weapon.  If you don't want one, thats your choice.  Stop trying to take away other peoples rights.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 01:41:31 pm
Asking gun owners to take responsibility for their weapons is "mocking and insulting"?    *****rollingeyes*****

Too many folks have chips on their shoulder.   The community reasonably requires folks to register their cars before using them for their intended purpose.   It is just as reasonable to require gun owners to conduct all purchases and transfers of their guns by documented means.  It is unreasonable to jump to the conclusion that such a requirement masks a secret agenda of confiscation.   Gun owners have little faith in the Constitution when they demand the right to live separate and apart from the community.

@Jazzhead
Gunowners are already legally and morally responsible for their weapons.   No, what you want is to infringe on peoples rights by making special provisions for firearm ownership and self defense.  Making it more difficult and more expensive to legally possess a firearm.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 01:43:31 pm
@driftdiver
Fifty FEET? Heck, you could dang near put a sandpoint on the end of a pipe and drive it in with a post pounder... Lucky you.

Our aquifer where I am is about 120' down through rock... so it's a job to get at it. but we have springs just about everywhere, and they feed the creeks. so head waters and glacial waters are always pure.

@roamer_1
There is limestone under Florida but its pretty weak, hence our sinkholes.   In places the aquifer is accessible from the surface.   I've been in springs that had water flowing out of the ground in massive swells.  Millions of gallons a day.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 01:45:26 pm
Oh, @Jazzhead one more thing:  "Gun owners have little faith in the Constitution when they demand the right to live separate and apart from the community."

I have plenty of faith in the Constitution.  My "faith" breaks down when lawyers and polemicists get hold of it and twist the meaning of the words into the opposite of what the founders intended.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 24, 2018, 02:14:28 pm
...The community reasonably requires folks to register their cars before using them for their intended purpose.   It is just as reasonable to require gun owners to conduct all purchases and transfers of their guns by documented means....

You keep making that false claim, I'll keep pointing out it is false.

It doesn't matter how you use it.  It only matters where.  And then your false analogy falls apart.

If you don't use it on public roads, you don't have to register; you do not have to insure.

But you want all guns, anywhere for any reason registered.  In spite of the fact that ~97% of guns used in crimes were illegally obtained in the first place.

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 24, 2018, 02:30:33 pm
You keep making that false claim, I'll keep pointing out it is false. It doesn't matter how you use it.  It only matters where.  And then your false analogy falls apart.
If you don't use it on public roads, you don't have to register; you do not have to insure.  But you want all guns, anywhere for any reason registered.  In spite of the fact that ~97% of guns used in crimes were illegally obtained in the first place.
@thackney
@mystery-ak
@Cyber Liberty 

I could use a woman's Kotex pad to stuff a person's mouth with it, pushing it so far back, air could not get into or out of the person's lungs and he/she would die.  I have advocated (not) that Kotex are murder instruments, but they continue to be sold.  They should be regulated, every sale should require the person's name and address in case he/she uses them to kill.  They should be off the counter and only be sold if a person directly asks for them.  Only one should be sold at a time and the customer would have to wait a month to buy another one.  The Kotex company should be sued for making these killer devices.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 02:37:17 pm
@thackney
@mystery-ak
@Cyber Liberty 

I could use a woman's Kotex pad to stuff a person's mouth with it, pushing it so far back, air could not get into or out of the person's lungs and he/she would die.  I have advocated (not) that Kotex are murder instruments, but they continue to be sold.  They should be regulated, every sale should require the person's name and address in case he/she uses them to kill.  They should be off the counter and only be sold if a person directly asks for them.  Only one should be sold at a time and the customer would have to wait a month to buy another one.  The Kotex company should be sued for making these killer devices.

I think the time has come for reasonable regulation of Assault Kotex Pads.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 02:46:52 pm
You keep making that false claim, I'll keep pointing out it is false.

It doesn't matter how you use it.  It only matters where.  And then your false analogy falls apart.

If you don't use it on public roads, you don't have to register; you do not have to insure.

But you want all guns, anywhere for any reason registered.  In spite of the fact that ~97% of guns used in crimes were illegally obtained in the first place.

Yes, @thackey,  I know you keep making that argument.  And it continues to make no sense to me.  Carving out an exception from registration for vehicles that aren't used on public roads is analogous to carving out an exception from registration of firearms for historical/collectible weapons that are rendered inoperative.   The intended use of 99% of all cars is to drive them on public roads, where they can potentially cause mayhem.   Just as the intended use of 99% of all guns is to fire them, and maintain them in condition where they can potentially cause mayhem.  What is the "false analogy" you're so hung up about?

Drivers must take responsibility.  Why not gun owners? 

The fact that most drivers obey the rules of the road doesn't excuse them from being licensed and registering their vehicles.   So it is for gun owners - sure, most obey the law,  but the purpose of registration is to help make sure that all transfers and dispositions of firearms are documented.   That legitimate law enforcement purpose for registration, as noted in the Heller II case, creates only a di minimis burden on the lawful gun owner. 
 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 24, 2018, 02:48:54 pm
I think the time has come for reasonable regulation of Assault Kotex Pads.
@Cyber Liberty

Thank you for your support.  I will pick you up to go with me when I go to Washington to speak to the US House and Senate about the Assault Kotex.  We must regulate these dangerous Assault Kotex.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 02:50:35 pm
@Jazzhead
 No, what you want is to infringe on peoples rights by making special provisions for firearm ownership and self defense. 

What "infringement" results from registration?  As noted in my post immediately above, the Heller II case specifically found that a registration requirement imposes only a di minimis burden on the lawful gun owner.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: mystery-ak on April 24, 2018, 02:53:03 pm
@Cyber Liberty

Thank you for your support.  I will pick you up to go with me when I go to Washington to speak to the US House and Senate about the Assault Kotex.  We must regulate these dangerous Assault Kotex.

Road trip...count me in..I am on the way so no detours..lol
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: skeeter on April 24, 2018, 02:55:10 pm
What "infringement" results from registration?  As noted in my post immediately above, the Heller II case specifically found that a registration requirement imposes only a di minimis burden on the lawful gun owner.

Registration is a necessary prerequisite to confiscation and will not have a SINGLE positive effect on public safety.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 03:00:01 pm
What "infringement" results from registration?  As noted in my post immediately above, the Heller II case specifically found that a registration requirement imposes only a di minimis burden on the lawful gun owner.

@Jazzhead
What infringement comes from requiring a govt issued ID to vote?    The left claims it is a barrier to the 'right' to vote.

Registration of firearms is a barrier to lawful exercise of our right to bear arms.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 03:00:58 pm
I think the time has come for reasonable regulation of Assault Kotex Pads.

@Cyber Liberty
I'd say that those evil things have been involved in a great deal of violence and irrational behavior since they were invented.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 03:11:56 pm
Gun owners have little faith in the Constitution when they demand the right to live separate and apart from the community.

So, more evidence you are a Communist at heart.

No surprise here.

It's none of your effing business if someone demands to live separately and apart from the "community".

It's called LIBERTY - something you continually reveal you hate and have contempt for as you repackage it to mean something entirely different.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 24, 2018, 03:13:57 pm
Yes, @thackey,  I know you keep making that argument.  And it continues to make no sense to me.  Carving out an exception from registration for vehicles that aren't used on public roads is analogous to carving out an exception from registration of firearms for historical/collectible weapons that are rendered inoperative.


It is not an exemption.  No cars need registration.  If you want to use it on the public roads, you register it.

Quote
The intended use of 99% of all cars is to drive them on public roads, where they can potentially cause mayhem.

They can cause mayhem on private roads, but the public doesn't pay for private roads, so registration is not required.  The reason for the registration is not due to damage, but for where it is used.

Quote
Just as the intended use of 99% of all guns is to fire them, and maintain them in condition where they can potentially cause mayhem.

Essentially no one buys a legal registered gun to shoot other people.  That is not the intended use except for criminals, who won't be registering their purchase.  Only the law abiding would register and that is not the intended purpose.

Quote
What is the "false analogy" you're so hung up about?

Ownership requiring registration.  False claim.

Quote
Drivers must take responsibility.  Why not gun owners?

The fact that most drivers obey the rules of the road doesn't excuse them from being licensed and registering their vehicles.   So it is for gun owners - sure, most obey the law,  but the purpose of registration is to help make sure that all transfers and dispositions of firearms are documented.   That legitimate law enforcement purpose for registration, as noted in the Heller II case, creates only a di minimis burden on the lawful gun owner.

Registration is not about taking responsibility.  It is about collecting a use tax and providing proof you have paid it.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Sanguine on April 24, 2018, 03:22:43 pm
Road trip...count me in..I am on the way so no detours..lol

It's long drive, maybe a couple of stops would be in order?  At least for kolaches and coffee?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 03:25:42 pm
What "infringement" results from registration?  As noted in my post immediately above, the Heller II case specifically found that a registration requirement imposes only a di minimis burden on the lawful gun owner.

What "infringement" results from registration?

That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen you say on this subject, and that's saying a lot.  I'm putting it up in great, big letters for all the readers of this thread to laugh and enjoy, as I did.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Sanguine on April 24, 2018, 03:25:56 pm
....

Registration is not about taking responsibility.  It is about collecting a use tax and providing proof you have paid it.


There was a recent article about 8 of the top 10 most polluted cities are in California, and it made me start wondering.  CA has some of the most stringent anti-pollution regulations, taxes and other measures in the nation and they have this level of pollution?  That must mean that the regulations and taxing and licensing, etc., doesn't adequately control pollution.  So, what is their purpose? 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 03:27:18 pm
It's long drive, maybe a couple of stops would be in order?  At least for kolaches and coffee?

There needs to be donuts.  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 03:34:14 pm
What "infringement" results from registration?  As noted in my post immediately above, the Heller II case specifically found that a registration requirement imposes only a di minimis burden on the lawful gun owner.

@Jazzhead
Funny,

Requiring a govt provided ID to vote is an infringement (according to the left and the radical courts)
Requiring a woman to have an ultrasound before killing an unborn baby is considered an infringement (according to the left and the radical courts)

But requiring registration of firearms, insurance, locks and a host of other things is not infringement?  All of those things increase the cost and raise barriers to law abiding citizens exercising their Constitutionally protected rights.

But it doesn't matter.  You seek to further restrict our Constitutionally protected rights.   It is incumbent upon you to prove that registration and whatever else would have a positive impact beyond its cost to our freedoms.   

History shows registration doesn't increase safety but rather it increases violent crime.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 03:43:30 pm
Funny,
Requiring a govt provided ID to vote is an infringement (according to the left and the radical courts)
Requiring a woman to have an ultrasound before killing an unborn baby is considered an infringement (according to the left and the radical courts).

But requiring registration of firearms, insurance, locks and a host of other things is not infringement? 

The minds of Communists and Leftists are indeed an enigma to a normal person are they not?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 04:05:40 pm
The minds of Communists and Leftists are indeed an enigma to a normal person are they not?

Not really. 

They have a set of goals that are actually pretty easy to spot:  Denial of the human rights belonging to others, while reserving those rights for themselves. What's twisted and enigmatic to straight thinkers is how they are always attempting to find ways to declare their arrogation of rights and power legal, and actually encouraged by the 200 year old document written to prevent that.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so damned dangerous.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 04:32:29 pm
@Jazzhead
What infringement comes from requiring a govt issued ID to vote?    The left claims it is a barrier to the 'right' to vote.

Registration of firearms is a barrier to lawful exercise of our right to bear arms.

Just because the left adopts an idiot position doesn't mean that conservatives should parrot it.   

Registration is a tiny burden that enhances public safety by encouraging documented transfers and dispositions of firearms.  Just as an ID requirement is a tiny burden that enhances the efficacy of free and fair elections.   

Why should my vote be rendered meaningless because the lack of a photo ID requirement encourages voter fraud?  We all recognize that providing identification to vote is simple common sense. 

So why should my and my family's safety be compromised because gun owners demand the right to assemble arsenals in secret (thereby creating the conditions whereby criminals can do the same thing?)

Thanks, @driftdiver , for proposing this analogy.   We ALL understand the stupidity and selfishness of the left's arguments against voter IDs.   Let's put down our prejudices and paranoia and understand that firearms registration can enhance public safety at little cost to gun owners.   And that our Constitution provides the protection that registration will not lead to confiscation.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Axeslinger on April 24, 2018, 04:34:04 pm
Just because the left adopts an idiot position doesn't mean that conservatives should parrot it.   

Registration is a tiny burden that enhances public safety by encouraging documented transfers and dispositions of firearms.  Just as an ID requirement is a tiny burden that enhances the efficacy of free and fair elections.   

Why should my vote be rendered meaningless because the lack of a photo ID requirement encourages voter fraud?  We all recognize that providing identification to vote is simple common sense. 

So why should my and my family's safety be compromised because gun owners demand the right to assemble arsenals in secret (thereby creating the conditions whereby criminals can do the same thing?)

Thanks, @driftdiver , for proposing this analogy.   We ALL understand the stupidity and selfishness of the left's arguments against voter IDs.   Let's put down our prejudices and paranoia and understand that firearms registration can enhance public safety at little cost to gun owners.   And that our Constitution provides the protection that registration will not lead to confiscation.

Stick it where the sun doesn’t shine statist...we will not comply...no matter how many times you propose your schemes. 

You want them?  YOU come and get them!  Make sure you dont send someone else.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 04:39:56 pm

Registration is not about taking responsibility.  It is about collecting a use tax and providing proof you have paid it.

 The purpose of registration - just as it is with cars -  is to assign each firearm to the person who is legally responsible for its use, transfer and disposition.   It encourages safe practices and swift reporting of thefts to the police.   It will significantly enhance public safety at minimal  cost to gun owners. 

Registration is indeed about taking responsibility.   Gun owners are as obliged as anyone else to obey the reasonable laws of our Constitutional republic.       
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 24, 2018, 04:40:31 pm
So why should my and my family's safety be compromised because gun owners demand the right to assemble arsenals in secret (thereby creating the conditions whereby criminals can do the same thing?)

Your safety is in no way compromised by my legal owning of multiple firearms.  It does not create any condition when the criminal isn't going to follow the law in the first place.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 04:41:35 pm
Stick it where the sun doesn’t shine statist...we will not comply...no matter how many times you propose your schemes. 

You want them?  YOU come and get them!  Make sure you dont send someone else.

 :tongue2:

Take you meds, Axeslinger.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 24, 2018, 04:42:46 pm
...Thanks, @driftdiver , for proposing this analogy.   We ALL understand the stupidity and selfishness of the left's arguments against voter IDs.   Let's put down our prejudices and paranoia and understand that firearms registration can enhance public safety at little cost to gun owners.   And that our Constitution provides the protection that registration will not lead to confiscation.

Yes, registration required for the use and action, not the mere existence and ownership of the right, but for the use in public affairs.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 04:43:24 pm
Your safety is in no way compromised by my legal owning of multiple firearms. 

I have never supported any restrictions on your legal owning of multiple firearms.  Just that you register them so that your use, transfer and disposition of them can be identified as YOUR legal responsibility.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 04:43:55 pm
Registration is indeed about taking responsibility.   

WE WILL NOT COMPLY.

You are going to have to empower the agents of your government to shoot and kill us to force compliance.

And then, when they come.... it's time to water the tree of liberty.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 24, 2018, 04:47:46 pm
I have never supported any restrictions on your legal owning of multiple firearms.  Just that you register them so that your use, transfer and disposition of them can be identified as YOUR legal responsibility.

My use is already my legal responsibility.  Transfer and disposition is also in accordance with laws so also my legal responsibility.

What you want is to add to the legal burden and set us up for government abuse, as has been shown in most gun registrations.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Axeslinger on April 24, 2018, 04:52:00 pm
WE WILL NOT COMPLY.

You are going to have to empower the agents of your government to shoot and kill us to force compliance.

And then, when they come.... it's time to water the tree of liberty.

More than that I insist that this statist  @Jazzhead volunteer to BE one of those agents of the government.  Otherwise he’s just another gutless troll wanting others to do his dirty work.  As I said above...you want em, YOU come get them.   Otherwise STFU.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 04:54:53 pm
The purpose of registration - just as it is with cars -  is to assign each firearm to the person who is legally responsible for its use, transfer and disposition.   

You may actually believe that in your heart.  I maintain the purpose of registration is to keep the government up-to-date on where these "Death Machines," as you call them, are so if the need arises they can go around and collect them.  There is ample case history of that being done, every time somebody in government gets the itch.

This is why I'm with @Axeslinger and @INVAR  I will not comply either.  Your protestations to the contrary, I know where that road leads.  Your right to live "safe" and ignorant does not trump my God-given right to self defense.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 04:55:53 pm
:tongue2:

Take you meds, Axeslinger.

And you say I'm wrong to accuse you of mocking. **nononono*
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 04:59:08 pm
WE WILL NOT COMPLY.

You are going to have to empower the agents of your government to shoot and kill us to force compliance.

And then, when they come.... it's time to water the tree of liberty.

I'm with @Axeslinger.  I think that little guy should not be allowed to delegate the chore of collecting our weapons.  He's the one demanding lives be put at risk to enforce his plan, and a true leader of men goes to the front of the line when it's time to take on risk.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 05:01:31 pm
This is why I'm with @Axeslinger and @INVAR  I will not comply either.  Your protestations to the contrary, I know where that road leads.  Your right to live "safe" and ignorant does not trump my God-given right to self defense.

Stop hyperventilating.  No one is threatening your "God given right to self defense".   Set up barbed wire and snipers' nests at all four corners of your property if you're that paranoid about folks knocking on your door.

Registration is about taking responsibility, not deprivation of your rights.  You are legally responsible for the use, transfer and disposition of your firearms.  Do you really disagree with that statement?   Registration is a reasonable tool by which the peaceable community can enforce that responsibility.     
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 05:03:59 pm
And you say I'm wrong to accuse you of mocking. **nononono*

Idiocy deserves to be mocked.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 05:06:12 pm
I'm with @Axeslinger.  I think that little guy should not be allowed to delegate the chore of collecting our weapons.  He's the one demanding lives be put at risk to enforce his plan, and a true leader of men goes to the front of the line when it's time to take on risk.

No one is seeking to "collect your weapons".  Take 'em to bed with you for all I care;  tell Mrs. CL to use the couch.   

Of course, if you defy the law,  then you will be the legitimate target of law enforcement.  I predict you'll fold like a cheap tent.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 05:06:20 pm
Just because the left adopts an idiot position doesn't mean that conservatives should parrot it.   

Registration is a tiny burden that enhances public safety by encouraging documented transfers and dispositions of firearms.  Just as an ID requirement is a tiny burden that enhances the efficacy of free and fair elections.   

Why should my vote be rendered meaningless because the lack of a photo ID requirement encourages voter fraud?  We all recognize that providing identification to vote is simple common sense. 

So why should my and my family's safety be compromised because gun owners demand the right to assemble arsenals in secret (thereby creating the conditions whereby criminals can do the same thing?)

Thanks, @driftdiver , for proposing this analogy.   We ALL understand the stupidity and selfishness of the left's arguments against voter IDs.   Let's put down our prejudices and paranoia and understand that firearms registration can enhance public safety at little cost to gun owners.   And that our Constitution provides the protection that registration will not lead to confiscation.

@Jazzhead
Your familys safety isn't compromised by gun owners.  Its compromised by criminals who can use a lot of different types of weapons or just their fists.

Your paranoia isn't sufficient cause to infringe.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 24, 2018, 05:06:35 pm
Stop hyperventilating.  No one is threatening your "God given right to self defense".   Set up barbed wire and snipers' nests at all four corners of your property if you're that paranoid about folks knocking on your door.

Registration is about taking responsibility, not deprivation of your rights.  You are legally responsible for the use, transfer and disposition of your firearms.  Do you really disagree with that statement?  Registration is a reasonable tool by which the peaceable community can enforce that responsibility.   

I would like to explore this claim.

Let us start with use.  How does registration of a firearm enforce responsible use of a firearm as compared to an unregistered firearm?  What has changed impacting use?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Sanguine on April 24, 2018, 05:06:50 pm
Idiocy deserves to be mocked.

But, if it helps, I cringe sometimes when people are going after you.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 05:09:54 pm
No one is seeking to "collect your weapons".  Take 'em to bed with you for all I care;  tell Mrs. CL to use the couch.   

Of course, if you defy the law,  then you will be the legitimate target of law enforcement.  I predict you'll fold like a cheap tent.

@Jazzhead
More lies, of course you want to take peoples guns.  You've openly stated that for all the noise you make about it.

I do notice that you threaten to use force (with firearms) to infringe upon other peoples rights.   While you wouldn't do the dirty work yourself you are more than happy to send others.

Exactly the reason the Founders put the 2nd in there.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Axeslinger on April 24, 2018, 05:11:33 pm
No one is seeking to "collect your weapons".  Take 'em to bed with you for all I care;  tell Mrs. CL to use the couch.   

Of course, if you defy the law,  then you will be the legitimate target of law enforcement.  I predict you'll fold like a cheap tent.

And there you have it, folks.  A glimpse behind the curtain. 

You are a tyrant wanna be who is too gutless to put his own ass on the line.   You want em, you come get em, statist
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 05:12:24 pm
Stop hyperventilating.  No one is threatening your "God given right to self defense".   Set up barbed wire and snipers' nests at all four corners of your property if you're that paranoid about folks knocking on your door.

Registration is about taking responsibility, not deprivation of your rights.  You are legally responsible for the use, transfer and disposition of your firearms.  Do you really disagree with that statement?   Registration is a reasonable tool by which the peaceable community can enforce that responsibility.   

OK, one last time:  I disagree that universal registration is benign.  As @thackney has patiently pointed out to you more than once, I already am responsible in the use, transfer and disposition of my arms.  I don't need nor want your, or the the nanny state's help to do so.

I think universal registration is malignant, and is proposed as a manner to get control of the weapons of the citizens to enable a malignant government to become our masters, in deed as well as in name.

If you expect me to cooperate, you can go hang.  I will not comply.  If you think it's a good idea to forcibly register everybody's weapons, then man up and do it yourself.  Don't delegate that chore to somebody else like a coward.

I will not be goaded into replying to any more of your leftist posts on this thread, you are a broken record.  If I reply further on this thread, it will be to others who are actually listening, and not to leftists who are just trying to lecture me.  Good day.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 05:12:46 pm
I would like to explore this claim.

Let us start with use.  How does registration of a firearm enforce responsible use of a firearm as compared to an unregistered firearm?  What has changed impacting use?

@thackney
IMO we need to be careful about being put on the defensive here.   Like you did, we need to demand they justify all their outrageous plans. 

Guns are illegal in Brazil and Mexico.   They have massive crime problems.   None of these gun control plans work but they keep pushing them.   Because its not about safety, its about control.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 05:15:47 pm
@Jazzhead
More lies, of course you want to take peoples guns.  You've openly stated that for all the noise you make about it.

I do notice that you threaten to use force (with firearms) to infringe upon other peoples rights.   While you wouldn't do the dirty work yourself you are more than happy to send others.

Exactly the reason the Founders put the 2nd in there.

He's a fookin' coward, and he admits it.  In fact, I think he's rather proud that he thinks he can order other men to come to my house so I can "fold up like a tent."
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 24, 2018, 05:16:10 pm
@thackney
IMO we need to be careful about being put on the defensive here.   Like you did, we need to demand they justify all their outrageous plans. 

Guns are illegal in Brazil and Mexico.   They have massive crime problems.   None of these gun control plans work but they keep pushing them.   Because its not about safety, its about control.

I'm not being defensive.  I am tearing apart the false claims.  When 97% of the guns used in crimes are already illegally obtained, it seems extremely foolish to concentrate on the 3% while pretending it is to reduce gun crime.  Unless your motivation is actually something else.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 05:17:31 pm
Gun owners have little faith in the Constitution when they demand the right to live separate and apart from the community.

@Jazzhead
Who the hell are you to impose your community on me? In FACT, that is exactly what the Constitution protects against - That is why it is federalist in it's construction. Do what you want to in YOUR state. Leave me and mine ALONE.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 05:20:11 pm
I'm not being defensive.  I am tearing apart the false claims.  When 97% of the guns used in crimes are already illegally obtained, it seems extremely foolish to concentrate on the 3% while pretending it is to reduce gun crime.  Unless your motivation is actually something else.

Of course their motivation is something else.  You know that, and I know that.  Heck on rare events they even acknowledge it.

They don't care about safety, the children, suicide or anything else (except maybe how to encourage a destructive lifestyle).   No they care about taking the power from the people and keeping it with the govt.

Because when they ban guns they also ban self defense.   They start telling people to hide under their beds and prosecuting them if an intruder gets hurt.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 05:26:00 pm
It will significantly enhance public safety at minimal  cost to gun owners. 

It does *nothing* to enhance public safety in the cities where it is practiced, and even where guns are illegally possessed (according to city charters)

All it does is keep suckers like you disarmed... and easy prey to the criminal who pays no mind to the law.

Quote
Registration is indeed about taking responsibility.   Gun owners are as obliged as anyone else to obey the reasonable laws of our Constitutional republic.     

It is not reasonable.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 05:32:00 pm

Registration is about taking responsibility, not deprivation of your rights.  You are legally responsible for the use, transfer and disposition of your firearms.  Do you really disagree with that statement?   

HELL YES, I disagree. It ain't NONE of your damn business.

Quote
Registration is a reasonable tool by which the peaceable community can enforce that responsibility.   

It is neither reasonable nor efficacious, and FAILS your proposed result in EVERY American city where it already exists.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 05:33:18 pm
It is not reasonable.

He's never going to agree to that.  It's like a Chess game, where you've built a good defense of your King.  There is no way for your opponent to win the game if he doesn't design and execute a plan to break that defense, and in this case, effective confiscation is impossible if the government can't get a listing of who has what.  The left will do ANYTHING to break down that defense, because until they do, forwarding their agenda of subjugation is impossible.

They'll lie to us with soft talk all day long if it forwards that goal.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 05:39:49 pm
The left will do ANYTHING to break down that defense, because until they do, forwarding their agenda of subjugation is impossible.

They'll lie to us with soft talk all day long if it forwards that goal.

That's right. But fat chance, hereabouts. Not going to happen.

2 MILLION people defend themselves annually with firearms. That is a right well worth keeping.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 05:47:25 pm
Registration is about taking responsibility, not deprivation of your rights.

WE SAY IT IS DEPRIVATION.

You are legally responsible for the use, transfer and disposition of your firearms.  Do you really disagree with that statement?

We already are.  The fact you can move about freely, say the vile crap you spew and live your life without being behind barbed wire is due the fact that we have been responsible with our arsenals that are secret and unknown to vile communist gun grabbers like yourself.   

Registration is a reasonable tool by which the peaceable community can enforce that responsibility.   

NO. It's an act of war.  The "community" has no right or authority to know what tools I possess, how many, what kind or what I use them for.

All it needs to know is that I have the means and ability to resist any encroachment they attempt on my liberty.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 05:53:44 pm
Of course, if you defy the law,  then you will be the legitimate target of law enforcement.  I predict you'll fold like a cheap tent.

Of course that is what you hope for, either our subjugation to your 'community's despotism under the color of 'law', or our deaths by the agents you will empower to do your evil bidding because we will not comply with tyranny.  You of course are too much of a chicken shit coward to come to our doors and try to force us to comply with your harebrained communist registration and gun confiscation scheme yourself.

Your move.  We stand ready to water the tree of liberty the moment you and yours decide to make that last mistake.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 05:54:38 pm
We already are.  The fact you can move about freely, say the vile crap you spew and live your life without being behind barbed wire is due the fact that we have been responsible with our arsenals that are secret and unknown to vile communist gun grabbers like yourself.   

The thing about the barbed wire is, the grabbers fully expect to be on the outside, while you and I get the business end of it.  That's what the Commies thought as they were watching the Jews being shoved into the cattle cars in France, Germany and Poland.  Their turn to be at the business end of the bayonets came in due time, and so will the coward leftists' demanding our weapon registration/confiscation today.

They'll be more than happy to watch you and I be put in cages, but they're only forestalling their own imprisonment.  Hoping the crocodile eats them last, as it were.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 06:06:07 pm
The thing about the barbed wire is, the grabbers fully expect to be on the outside, while you and I get the business end of it.  That's what the Commies thought as they were watching the Jews being shoved into the cattle cars in France, Germany and Poland.  Their turn to be at the business end of the bayonets came in due time, and so will the coward leftists' demanding our weapon registration/confiscation today.

They'll be more than happy to watch you and I be put in cages, but they're only forestalling their own imprisonment.  Hoping the crocodile eats them last, as it were.

Jazzhead is all about the imposition of his Commie-Liberal worldview of 'Community' by force.   He is also the first person to scream aloud and declare evil, bigotry and threat the moment the 'community' he loathes refuses to comply with the demands of 'his community'.

We are clearly reaching the time when we can no longer peaceably coexist with these meddlesome tyrants.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 24, 2018, 06:14:04 pm
No one is seeking to "collect your weapons".  Take 'em to bed with you for all I care;  tell Mrs. CL to use the couch.   

Of course, if you defy the law,  then you will be the legitimate target of law enforcement.  I predict you'll fold like a cheap tent.

Projecting again?  Of course you are.  Because you can't even conceive pf characteristics and traits like guts, bravery, courage and valor.  The same traits, along with a fervent belief in God, that founded this nation you take advantage of.  The same qualities you apparently sneer at as you pontificate about the need for gun registration among responsible adults.  The very idea is an oxymoron.   If you're responsible, there's no need.... since the irresponsible and/or criminals sure as hell won't comply.  Get it?

But no... you can't get next to what we here in Texas call "True Grit".  And you never will.

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 06:17:30 pm
Jazzhead is all about the imposition of his Commie-Liberal worldview of 'Community' by force.   He is also the first person to scream aloud and declare evil, bigotry and threat the moment the 'community' he loathes refuses to comply with the demands of 'his community'.

We are clearly reaching the time when we can no longer peaceably coexist with these meddlesome tyrants.

It all depends on whether they can convince the big guys with the guns to go along with their scheme.  If they are required to do the dirty work of coming and getting them themselves, it'll never happen and their yapping voices will get farther and farther away.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 06:35:08 pm
It all depends on whether they can convince the big guys with the guns to go along with their scheme.  If they are required to do the dirty work of coming and getting them themselves, it'll never happen and their yapping voices will get farther and farther away.

They are a lot further along in that effort and goal than we would like to acknowledge.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH9YSjS8WPA#)
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Silver Pines on April 24, 2018, 06:37:54 pm
@Victoria33 has better weather.

@Cyber Liberty
@Victoria33

We're having a lovely spring.  Today is 55 and rainy.   I'm holding on for dear life to every cool day.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 06:37:55 pm
I predict you'll fold like a cheap tent.

That, @Jazzhead , seems like perfectly allocuted projection.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 06:39:44 pm
When 97% of the guns used in crimes are already illegally obtained . . .

Doesn't that factoid you cite indicate there's a problem?   Those "illegally obtained firearms" are the fruit of a wild west mentality that folks have the "right" to keep arsenals in secret, and buy and sell deadly weapons off the backs of trucks.  The goal of registration is assign each gun to the owner who is responsible for its use, transfer and disposition.   That documented legal responsibility will help dissuade folks from transferring their guns in secret to criminals. 

I am sick and tired of gun owners claiming they have the right to thumb their noses at the efforts of the people to get a handle on the epidemic of gun violence in this country.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 06:40:46 pm
Projecting again? 

LOL! GMTA.

Quote
But no... you can't get next to what we here in Texas call "True Grit".  And you never will.

That's right.  :beer:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 06:45:49 pm
Doesn't that factoid you cite indicate there's a problem?   Those "illegally obtained firearms" are the fruit of a wild west mentality that folks have the "right" to keep arsenals in secret, and buy and sell deadly weapons off the backs of trucks.  The goal of registration is assign each gun to the owner who is responsible for its use, transfer and disposition.   That documented legal responsibility will help dissuade folks from transferring their guns in secret to criminals. 



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Idiocy.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: GrouchoTex on April 24, 2018, 06:47:44 pm
I am sick and tired of gun owners claiming they have the right to thumb their noses at the efforts of the people to get a handle on the epidemic of gun violence in this country.   

You know better than that.
Gun violence isn't near the number one cause of death in this country and you know it!
(Psst! Don't look now, but your credibility is shrinking).
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 24, 2018, 06:47:48 pm
Doesn't that factoid you cite indicate there's a problem?   Those "illegally obtained firearms" are the fruit of a wild west mentality that folks have the "right" to keep arsenals in secret, and buy and sell deadly weapons off the backs of trucks. The goal of registration is assign each gun to the owner who is responsible for its use, transfer and disposition.   That documented legal responsibility will help dissuade folks from transferring their guns in secret to criminals. 

I am sick and tired of gun owners claiming they have the right to thumb their noses at the efforts of the people to get a handle on the epidemic of gun violence in this country.   

@Jazzhead

Do you also claim the illegal drugs are the caused by doctor prescriptions to the law abiding?

Tell me about how vehicle registrations prevent auto thefts?

I'm sick and tired of big government proponents trying to use victims to push their agenda instead of deal with the actual problem, the 97% instead of the 3%.

But first, would you please support your previous claims concerning my question in post #114:

I would like to explore this claim.

Let us start with use.  How does registration of a firearm enforce responsible use of a firearm as compared to an unregistered firearm?  What has changed impacting use?

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Axeslinger on April 24, 2018, 06:52:15 pm

I am sick and tired of gun owners claiming they have the right to thumb their noses at the efforts of the people to get a handle on the epidemic of gun violence in this country.   
@Jazzhead

So come and get them Skippy.  If you’re feeling froggy...go ahead and jump...or STFU.   Take your bullshit trolling job over to DU, you’ll be a hit there, I promise.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 06:57:12 pm
They are a lot further along in that effort and goal than we would like to acknowledge.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH9YSjS8WPA#)

Is that the idjit running for Sheriff somewhere?  Eff him, he's a laughingstock.  But you have a point, we need to watch these pukes every second.  So what else is new?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Axeslinger on April 24, 2018, 06:59:45 pm
Is that the idjit running for Sheriff somewhere?  Eff him, he's a laughingstock.  But you have a point, we need to watch these pukes every second.  So what else is new?

How about this for a point...20 or even 10 years ago, would any politician have dared to utter that?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 07:04:23 pm
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Idiocy.

Yeah, that sounded even more idiotic when it went down on paper, didn't it?  "Why, criminals will naturally just hand over their weapons when they're illegal." 
 :banghead:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 07:04:30 pm


I am sick and tired of gun owners claiming they have the right to thumb their noses at the efforts of the people to get a handle on the epidemic of gun violence in this country.   

@Jazzhead

So dramatic and so wrong.

What epidemic?   Gun crime has held fairly steady for years.  We have the 31st highest rate of gun deaths in the world.    We're 14th in violent crime.   In both cases we are far lower then countries which have strict gun control.

Most murders take place in a very small % of population centers.   Seems to me that cities are far more dangerous than guns.  Perhaps we should outlaw cities?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 07:05:29 pm
Doesn't that factoid you cite indicate there's a problem?

Only to communist-gun-grabbing-meddlesome-tyrants like you. 

Those "illegally obtained firearms" are the fruit of a wild west mentality that folks have the "right" to keep arsenals in secret, and buy and sell deadly weapons off the backs of trucks.

YUP.  And we're gonna continue to keep doing so, and keep our 'wild west mentality' alive and well.  The only way you are going to stop it - is to kill us.  Well, actually you will have to empower the government's goons to do it for you because you are a coward that won't do what you advocate yourself.   You hide behind the skirt of the courts and the government to do your evil bidding for you, like all tyrants do.
 
The goal of registration is assign each gun to the owner who is responsible for its use, transfer and disposition. 

Your goal is confiscation, and this tyrannical attempt to register our weapons is specifically for that purpose - regardless of what you otherwise claim.  We will not comply.  F**K your "goal".

That documented legal responsibility will help dissuade folks from transferring their guns in secret to criminals.

Right, because criminals always reveal their intents to others in advance.

I am sick and tired of gun owners claiming they have the right to thumb their noses at the efforts of the people to get a handle on the epidemic of gun violence in this country.   

Too damn bad.  You're going to have to instigate a level of epidemic gun violent bloodshed in this country by agents of the state in order to get what you want.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 07:06:51 pm
How about this for a point...20 or even 10 years ago, would any politician have dared to utter that?

Sure.  Diane Feinstein.  There have been politicians freaking out about guns my whole life, and I just turned 60.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 07:07:06 pm
Is that the idjit running for Sheriff somewhere?  Eff him, he's a laughingstock.  But you have a point, we need to watch these pukes every second.  So what else is new?

@Cyber Liberty
Notice how his audience laughs about killing people.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 07:08:25 pm
Sure.  Diane Feinstein.  There have been politicians freaking out about guns my whole live, and I just turned 60.

The first gun control laws were passed in the late 1500s in Europe.  Shortly after firearms were invented.   They were proposed for the same reasons as today, because they scare the govt tyrants.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 07:09:09 pm
Is that the idjit running for Sheriff somewhere?

North Carolina.

Eff him, he's a laughingstock. 

Not to the despotic morons applauding him he's not.  Neither is it to a huge swath of the electorate in the county he's running (Asheville).  The San Fransisco of the East.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Axeslinger on April 24, 2018, 07:10:50 pm
Sure.  Diane Feinstein.  There have been politicians freaking out about guns my whole life, and I just turned 60.
Point conceded
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Restored on April 24, 2018, 07:11:10 pm
I can't help but laugh at the idea that registering guns in Idaho will stop them from killing people in Baltimore. Guns are already registered. I have filled out the forms many times. The government is aware of every gun I ever bought.

I bet we could make cars safer by requiring that owners register them with the state. If it saves one life, it will be worth it.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 07:15:11 pm
@Cyber Liberty
@Victoria33

We're having a lovely spring.  Today is 55 and rainy.   I'm holding on for dear life to every cool day.

I just punched up my weather forecast.  Upper 90's. **nononono*
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 07:19:33 pm
Point conceded

Doesn't deny the fact that you have to watch these peckerwoods every damned second.  They'll walk on the bodies of dead children to promote their goals...they're doing it right now, as @INVAR would say, to thunderous applause.

It's that Chess game I was talking about earlier.  They can't do diddly to us as long as they can't get our weapons away from us, whether we intend to use them or not.  Their mere existence sticks in their craw.  Look at the terms our hyperbolic friend in this thread uses to describe our beliefs.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 07:33:55 pm
Yeah, that sounded even more idiotic when it went down on paper, didn't it?  "Why, criminals will naturally just hand over their weapons when they're illegal." 
 :banghead:

They can't keep guns out of geographically tiny Chicago, New York, and LA... How the hell do they think they can keep them out of the whole damn country?

They can't keep truckloads of illegal aliens and illegal drugs out of the country... How the hell are they going to stop truckloads of illegal firearms and ammunition?

The premise is absurd on its face. Wholly ludicrous. Laughable.

How anyone thinks that way...  9999hair out0000 *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 07:39:07 pm
They can't keep guns out of geographically tiny Chicago, New York, and LA... How the hell do they think they can keep them out of the whole damn country?

They can't keep truckloads of illegal aliens and illegal drugs out of the country... How the hell are they going to stop truckloads of illegal firearms and ammunition?

The premise is absurd on its face. Wholly ludicrous. Laughable.

How anyone thinks that way...  9999hair out0000 *****rollingeyes*****

They have the arrogance to believe people will do what they are told.  Judges and lawyers are notorious for this idiocy. They are shocked (shocked! ) when someone defies them.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 07:42:34 pm
I just punched up my weather forecast.  Upper 90's. **nononono*

Blue skies and sixties for the first time this year today... Lilacs and willows are budding out... Still, nobody is saying that 'S' word, for fear of jinxing it.

I have to get the tractor running so I can mow this place. Touchy business... If I do it too soon, it will snow a couple feet. If I wait to long, it will grow a couple feet...  :shrug:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 07:42:44 pm
How anyone thinks that way...  9999hair out0000 *****rollingeyes*****

Tyrants and advocates for tyranny ALWAYS "think" that way, because stopping predators on the populace is not the goal.

Eradicating the ability of the people to resist them IS the goal.

They have the arrogance to believe people will do what they are told.  Judges and lawyers are notorious for this idiocy. They are shocked (shocked! ) when someone defies them.

Exactly.  They are not only shocked, but outraged that any would dare openly defy their ideas or openly discuss defying the agents of the state they want to empower to enforce their tyranny.

Like I said - they are going to have to empower their government to kill a whole lot of us.

Which is what some of them openly state they want to do anyway.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 24, 2018, 07:50:51 pm
Tyrants and advocates for tyranny ALWAYS "think" that way, because stopping predators on the populace is not the goal.

Eradicating the ability of the people to resist them IS the goal.

That is EXACTLY right. Their means are ineffective for any other thing.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 24, 2018, 08:27:14 pm
Tyrants and advocates for tyranny ALWAYS "think" that way, because stopping predators on the populace is not the goal.

Eradicating the ability of the people to resist them IS the goal.

. . . Like I said - they are going to have to empower their government to kill a whole lot of us.


What paranoid bullcrap.  We aren't a tyranny, we are a Constitutional republic, based on the rule of law.   

This is the sort of talk that unfortunately gives conservatives a reputation as violent whackjobs.  Thankfully, INVAR has renounced the GOP -  the party hardly needs to be associated with such douchebaggery.     
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 24, 2018, 08:29:38 pm
What paranoid bullcrap.  We aren't a tyranny, we are a Constitutional republic.   

This is the sort of talk that unfortunately gives conservatives a reputation as whackjobs.   

@Jazzhead
It takes more than words to keep us a Constitutional Republic.

You twist the Constitution to mean what you want it to mean.  You undermine the rule of law.

The left has openly stated what they want and it aint empowerment of the American citizen.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 24, 2018, 09:08:00 pm
What paranoid bullcrap. 

History speaks as well as the human nature of tyranny advocates like you. 

As I said, tyrants and advocates like you are not interested in stopping criminals, but eradicating the ability of the people to resist you when you attempt to implement your ideas using the government to do so.

We aren't a tyranny, we are a Constitutional republic, based on the rule of law.

Your ideas and advocacy undermine the rule of law and obliterate the idea of a Constitutional Republic.  Your ideas are PRECISELY a tyranny, and we will consider any attempt to implement your agenda and ideas as over tyranny and treat it as such.   

This is the sort of talk that unfortunately gives conservatives a reputation as violent whack jobs.

Only to Leftists, Communists and intolerant douchebags that think like you do.

Thankfully, INVAR has renounced the GOP -  the party hardly needs to be associated with such douchebaggery.   

Considering your party is now associated with the entirety of the Democrat Leftist agenda, including gun grabs - my renunciation is justified.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Axeslinger on April 24, 2018, 09:50:24 pm
What paranoid bullcrap.  We aren't a tyranny, we are a Constitutional republic, based on the rule of law.   

This is the sort of talk that unfortunately gives conservatives a reputation as violent whackjobs.  Thankfully, INVAR has renounced the GOP -  the party hardly needs to be associated with such douchebaggery.   
@Jazzhead

I notice you’re still too gutless to confirm that you’ll be volunteering to go door knocking to implement your bullshit plot...scurry along to DU... they love gun grabbers over there.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 24, 2018, 11:04:05 pm
How boring.  I waste hours sitting in a stupid meeting at work, and the lecturing is still rolling on when I get back.  Our own version of Davy Hogg is still arguing  bullshit with us old-ass people, needing him to show us how to operate our government and our lives. *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 25, 2018, 01:44:27 am

As I said, tyrants and advocates like you are not interested in stopping criminals, but eradicating the ability of the people to resist you when you attempt to implement your ideas using the government to do so.

What else can I say except you're out of your mind.  But I love getting you going.   :laugh:

Quote
Your ideas and advocacy undermine the rule of law and obliterate the idea of a Constitutional Republic.  Your ideas are PRECISELY a tyranny, and we will consider any attempt to implement your agenda and ideas as over tyranny and treat it as such. 

Oh please.  I advocate simple registration, to give law enforcement the tools it needs to ascertain where criminals get their guns.   No threat or  burden to you, unless you sell or buy guns off the back of trucks.     

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: RoosGirl on April 25, 2018, 01:53:36 am
What else can I say except you're out of your mind.  But I love getting you going.   :laugh:

Oh please.  I advocate simple registration, to give law enforcement the tools it needs to ascertain where criminals get their guns.   No threat or  burden to you, unless you sell or buy guns off the back of trucks.     

Either you're stupid or you think we're stupid enough to believe that criminals who sell and buy guns are going to start registering their guns.  Get the Rochester out of here with that bullshit.  The only other explanation is that you, being a douchebag lawyer, must stand to make some money off of this registration scam you're hyping.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: WingNot on April 25, 2018, 02:02:11 am
Either you're stupid or you think we're stupid enough to believe that criminals who sell and buy guns are going to start registering their guns.  Get the Rochester out of here with that bullshit.  The only other explanation is that you, being a douchebag lawyer, must stand to make some money off of this registration scam you're hyping.

I like your style.   :smokin:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 25, 2018, 02:07:48 am
I like your style.   :smokin:

Especially when she's so damned correct about something.  Of her two possibilities she lists right upfront, my money's on the second.  He's misguided but certainly not stupid.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 25, 2018, 02:40:40 am
Oh please.  I advocate simple registration, to give law enforcement the tools it needs to ascertain where criminals get their guns.

No.  What you advocate is a war and a bloodbath, because as you noted earlier - our refusal to comply with your stupid tyrannical idea will have you applauding cops with guns being sent in to enforce your bullshit "law".  Rest assured, that act will have Unintended Consequences for you and the nation itself should any idiots with influence actually attempt it.

No threat or  burden to you, unless you sell or buy guns off the back of trucks.     

Yes it is.  It is a DIRECT THREAT TO OUR LIVES and it will be regarded and treated as such.  As if you put the gun to our heads yourself and told us to "Register your guns or else get a bullet between the eyes".

Of course all of us on this board know you are too chicken-shit a coward to have the guts to actually try to enforce your stupid idea of registration yourself.  But, you should know that your stupid idea will cause a whole lot of bad to come down on both Patriots and tyrants.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Texas Yellow Rose on April 25, 2018, 03:16:39 am

But no... you can't get next to what we here in Texas call "True Grit".  And you never will.

(http://i67.tinypic.com/2zzp7k1.jpg)

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Silver Pines on April 25, 2018, 11:14:26 am
I just punched up my weather forecast.  Upper 90's. **nononono*

@Cyber Liberty

Holy cow!  🔥

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 25, 2018, 11:59:00 am
Registration is about taking responsibility, not deprivation of your rights.  You are legally responsible for the use, transfer and disposition of your firearms.  Do you really disagree with that statement?   Registration is a reasonable tool by which the peaceable community can enforce that responsibility.   

@Jazzhead

I would like to explore this claim.

Let us start with use.  How does registration of a firearm enforce responsible use of a firearm as compared to an unregistered firearm?  What has changed impacting use?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 25, 2018, 05:08:51 pm
@thackney,  I will try to address your question when I have the time to do so.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 25, 2018, 05:09:45 pm
@thackney,  I will try to address your question when I have the time to do so.   

Thanks!
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Restored on April 25, 2018, 05:19:36 pm
If you buy a gun in a store, it is registered with the state. Have any of you ever bought a gun?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 25, 2018, 05:34:36 pm
If you buy a gun in a store, it is registered with the state. Have any of you ever bought a gun?

What happens when you move out of the state?  It seems to me that data retention policy would change from state to state.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Restored on April 25, 2018, 05:37:59 pm
The State as in The Feds. It's part of the background check. When the Virginia Tech gunman shot up the school, the cops immediately knew where he bought the guns because he filed out the paperwork for the background check. The paperwork includes the serial number of the weapon.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 25, 2018, 05:38:11 pm
Thanks!

I hope he does a better job of it than the time @Meldrew asked that question.  He just repeated the same platitudes about it being our responsibility to be good little citizens, sign zee papers and take the arrows coming our way, as he's been doing this entire thread (and every other one on the subject, come to think about it).
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 25, 2018, 05:44:39 pm
The State as in The Feds. It's part of the background check. When the Virginia Tech gunman shot up the school, the cops immediately knew where he bought the guns because he filed out the paperwork for the background check.

The paper form is required to be on file at the gun store for 20 years.  The Feds are prohibited by law to retain the NICS record of the search (my best recollection here).  Of course, we already know how good the Feds are at following their own laws, so there's that...

AFAIK, they retrieved the purchase information of the various shooters by physically locating all the FFL licenses in proximity to the shooting, and actually digging out the forms.  But, how they really do it is secret, so I assume they've broken the law and just go to the database they keep illegally.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Restored on April 25, 2018, 05:48:13 pm
Correct. The paperwork is there so it is essentially a registration. Now Jazz can rest easily knowing his plan is in place.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 25, 2018, 05:52:15 pm
AFAIK, they retrieved the purchase information of the various shooters by physically locating all the FFL licenses in proximity to the shooting, and actually digging out the forms.  But, how they really do it is secret, so I assume they've broken the law and just go to the database they keep illegally.

Of course they do.  "Laws" are just for us little people.  The government and the reps who enslave us, the courts that pass decrees and the lobbyists who buy them are exempt from any "laws" that inhibit their rule over us.

Which is why anyone that trusts government NOT to abuse mechanisms to 'keep us all safe' such as Jazzy's harebrained registration scheme, are either idiots or lying scumbag tyrants. 

Government and their courts and their agents are the greatest threat and danger to your liberty on the planet aside from morons in the populace who make government their god to abuse you.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: truth_seeker on April 25, 2018, 06:01:23 pm
When you purchased a gun in a store in 2002 in California, I think they fired a round to keep on file, for forensic purposes. 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 25, 2018, 06:16:20 pm
The paper form is required to be on file at the gun store for 20 years.  The Feds are prohibited by law to retain the NICS record of the search (my best recollection here).  Of course, we already know how good the Feds are at following their own laws, so there's that...

AFAIK, they retrieved the purchase information of the various shooters by physically locating all the FFL licenses in proximity to the shooting, and actually digging out the forms.  But, how they really do it is secret, so I assume they've broken the law and just go to the database they keep illegally.

They would never break the law.   Just like they didn't lie to get warrants or lie to cover up crimes committed by their favorite politician.

Of course they have a database.   They are also using secret govt surveillance for criminal prosecutions.

But since I haven't done anything wrong I don't have anything to worry about. 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: GrouchoTex on April 25, 2018, 06:17:25 pm
When you purchased a gun in a store in 2002 in California, I think they fired a round to keep on file, for forensic purposes.

Both of my revolvers (purchased in Texas) came that way.
Had a little note in the case from Ruger, along with the spent shell, about test fired for accuracy, etc.
I have no doubt that information on the groove pattern, etc, is on file.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 25, 2018, 06:22:07 pm
Both of my revolvers (purchased in Texas) came that way.
Had a little note in the case from Ruger, along with the spent shell, about test fired for accuracy, etc.
I have no doubt that information on the groove pattern, etc, is on file.

It's one reason why purchasing our firearms person-to-person off the back of a pickup truck is the best way to ensure the government and meddlesome tyrants like Jazzhead have no idea what kind of weaponry we possess that they want to confiscate in the near future.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 25, 2018, 06:39:21 pm
It's one reason why purchasing our firearms person-to-person off the back of a pickup truck is the best way to ensure the government and meddlesome tyrants like Jazzhead have no idea what kind of weaponry we possess that they want to confiscate in the near future.

I pass a hone down the barrel when I buy anything. Let em try that against their records..  :beer:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: GtHawk on April 26, 2018, 02:24:05 am
I pass a hone down the barrel when I buy anything. Let em try that against their records..  :beer:
I was gonna say, rebarrel, do a little work on the parts of the action that mark the cases and always police your brass if possible.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 26, 2018, 02:28:38 am
I was gonna say, rebarrel, do a little work on the parts of the action that mark the cases and always police your brass if possible.

Yep...
But the hone works fine... just one pass and its different
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 26, 2018, 11:31:55 am
I would like to explore this claim.

Let us start with use.  How does registration of a firearm enforce responsible use of a firearm as compared to an unregistered firearm?  What has changed impacting use?

The efficacy of registration upon the safe use of firearms is influenced in part by whether (as is the case with motor vehicles) it is coupled with an insurance requirement.  If we assume that is not the case,  then to me the primary value of registration is that it links a firearm to the person who is legally responsible for its transfer and disposition.   That affects usage in that the legal owner will likely take care to keep the firearm secured against theft, and will inventory his firearms to detect theft and unauthorized usage.   When a firearm is used in a crime, it can traced back to its owner.  At that point,  other aspects of the law determine whether the legal owner is responsible for the harm caused.   If he has documented the transfer of his firearm,  then he is off the legal hook.   If he has reported the theft, then he is (IMO) off the legal hook.

 Obviously,  the state of a local jurisdiction's rules on liability for unauthorized use will play a role.   In the context of motor vehicles,  some states do not hold the owner responsible for unauthorized use of his car, but in other states, in certain circumstances, the owner is deemed responsible especially if has acted irresponsibly (such as leaving the keys in the ignition of an unlocked car).    If linked with an insurance regime,  victims of gun violence (just as the victims of motor vehicle use) can be compensated for medical costs under a no-fault system funded by premiums paid from a broadly-funded pool.   

The liability regime for motor vehicles is obviously different than that for firearms,  and will vary from place to place.   But registration is the tool by which the deadly device (car or gun) is linked to the person with color of legal responsibility,  and effectively compels him to dispose of the device in a documented manner.   

In short, registration is consistent with reasonable notions of owner responsibility.   Confiscation is not the objective, and the Constitution's protections are the means to ensure that.     
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 26, 2018, 11:56:57 am
The efficacy of registration upon the safe use of firearms is influenced in part by whether (as is the case with motor vehicles) it is coupled with an insurance requirement.  If we assume that is not the case,  then to me the primary value of registration is that it links a firearm to the person who is legally responsible for its transfer and disposition.  That affects usage in that the legal owner will likely take care to keep the firearm secured against theft, and will inventory his firearms to detect theft and unauthorized usage.   When a firearm is used in a crime, it can traced back to its owner.  At that point,  other aspects of the law determine whether the legal owner is responsible for the harm caused.   If he has documented the transfer of his firearm,  then he is off the legal hook.   If he has reported the theft, then he is (IMO) off the legal hook.


Do you really believe that gun owners without registration don't care if their guns are stolen and don't do anything to protect them?

And guilty until proven innocent?  That isn't about use of the gun, but documentation.

 
Quote
Obviously,  the state of a local jurisdiction's rules on liability for unauthorized use will play a role.   In the context of motor vehicles,  some states do not hold the owner responsible for unauthorized use of his car, but in other states, in certain circumstances, the owner is deemed responsible especially if has acted irresponsibly (such as leaving the keys in the ignition of an unlocked car).    If linked with an insurance regime,  victims of gun violence (just as the victims of motor vehicle use) can be compensated for medical costs under a no-fault system funded by premiums paid from a broadly-funded pool. 


Are you claiming if someone steals my car, runs over a kid, my insurance would be responsible for paying the kid's medical bills?  I do not believe that is true in any state.

Quote
The liability regime for motor vehicles is obviously different than that for firearms,  and will vary from place to place.   But registration is the tool by which the deadly device (car or gun) is linked to the person with color of legal responsibility,  and effectively compels him to dispose of the device in a documented manner.   

In short, registration is consistent with reasonable notions of owner responsibility.   Confiscation is not the objective, and the Constitution's protections are the means to ensure that.

You seem to play both sides of the argument when you claim the Constitution protection prevents confiscation, while at the same time you claim only the Heller decision and not the Constitution provides individual right to own a gun.  Which is it?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 26, 2018, 12:53:48 pm
Do you really believe that gun owners without registration don't care if their guns are stolen and don't do anything to protect them?

That is consistent with everything he's been saying about guns for as long as I've been seeing his posts.  Registration would "incentivize" us to be responsible, as if we aren't already.  It's really rather insulting.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 26, 2018, 01:02:44 pm
That is consistent with everything he's been saying about guns for as long as I've been seeing his posts.  Registration would "incentivize" us to be responsible, as if we aren't already.  It's really rather insulting.

I do protect my firearms.  I lock my house when I leave.

Why should I be responsible for what a criminal does with my property?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 26, 2018, 01:04:41 pm
I do protect my firearms.  I lock my house when I leave.

Why should I be responsible for what a criminal does with my property?

Because they're "Murder Machines." *****rollingeyes*****

And they should be taken away from the yahoos who waltz about with them.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 26, 2018, 01:05:00 pm
I do protect my firearms.  I lock my house when I leave.

Why should I be responsible for what a criminal does with my property?

You would not be.  It is just another ruse to try to justify an unjustifiable position.  It is as if he imagines we leave them on the sidewalk in front of the house while we sleep.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 26, 2018, 01:05:03 pm
Do you really believe that gun owners without registration don't care if their guns are stolen and don't do anything to protect them? 

Some do, some don't.   The point is there is far more incentive for the owner of a registered gun to report it stolen than the owner of an unregistered and untraceable gun.   

Quote
  That isn't about use of the gun, but documentation.

Documentation is helpful to the police by linking guns to their owners.   It is hardly a radical notion to ask a citizen to be responsible for the use and safekeeping of the killing devices he/she chooses to own.   

 

Quote
Are you claiming if someone steals my car, runs over a kid, my insurance would be responsible for paying the kid's medical bills?  I do not believe that is true in any state.

It is, in some states.  A couple of weeks ago I posted detailed information about that.   

Quote
You seem to play both sides of the argument when you claim the Constitution protection prevents confiscation, while at the same time you claim only the Heller decision and not the Constitution provides individual right to own a gun.  Which is it?

Good question!  Unlike most here,  I am worried that a small change in the SCOTUS's composition could well lead to a ruling that the Second Amendment does not protect the individual right to own a gun.   As I've explained a number of times, I think the reasoning and logic of the Heller decision provides an alternative basis for that protection - rooted in the Ninth amendment - but my recommendation that Congress take steps to codify that position has not met with favor from those who (naively, in my view) think the 2A is just fine as it is.   

So I'll put the question back to you - do YOU believe the individual RKBA in the Constitution is secure?  If not, why not?  If we both believe it is not secure, what can be done about it?  I've proposed something concrete to fix and secure the right.  What about you?     
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 26, 2018, 01:07:29 pm


@thackney

I don't believe they actually think any of their proposals will help.  I don't think they care.

What they do care about is adding anything possible to make it more difficult to legally possess a firearm.  Anything that adds to the hassle, cost, liability is a step towards their utopia of only the govt having firearms.  Well the govt and rich people who can afford private security teams.

Along with this will be the barriers to lawful self-defense.     People in the UK have been prosecuted for using things like bb guns, golf clubs, bats, pens, and knives to defend their lives from criminals.  Not because they went too far but because they hurt the perpetrator.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 26, 2018, 01:15:16 pm
@thackney @driftdiver @INVAR

If ever there was a ball teed up better than this one, I've never seen it.  Here's your 2-wood, this should be good for a few hundred yards down the fairway....
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 26, 2018, 01:17:30 pm
Some do, some don't.   The point is there is far more incentive for the owner of a registered gun to report it stolen than the owner of an unregistered and untraceable gun.

Reporting it stolen does nothing to prevent a crime being used by the stolen weapon.  It isn't about preventing a crime, injury or death; it is about assigning blame without know who actually committed the crime. 

Quote
Documentation is helpful to the police by linking guns to their owners.

It does nothing to prevent the crime.

Quote
It is hardly a radical notion to ask a citizen to be responsible for the use and safekeeping of the killing devices he/she chooses to own.   

Negligence actions already have a consequence.  Registration does nothing to prove Duty, Breach, Causation or Damages.

 
Quote
It is, in some states.  A couple of weeks ago I posted detailed information about that.   

My searching (quick and limited) has shown different results.  I would like to find that info.  I believe it would also require negligence, not the equivalent of someone breaking into my home or garage and taking my property without permission.

 
Quote
Good question!  Unlike most here,  I am worried that a small change in the SCOTUS's composition could well lead to a ruling that the Second Amendment does not protect the individual right to own a gun.   As I've explained a number of times, I think the reasoning and logic of the Heller decision provides an alternative basis for that protection - rooted in the Ninth amendment - but my recommendation that Congress take steps to codify that position has not met with favor from those who (naively, in my view) think the 2A is just fine as it is.
   

Then can we say your claim we are protected against confiscation by the Constitution is false?  Or will you stop making both claims?

 
Quote
So I'll put the question back to you - do YOU believe the individual RKBA in the Constitution is secure?  If not, why not?  If we both believe it is not secure, what can be done about it?  I've proposed something concrete to fix and secure the right.  What about you?

I believe it is, but it is impacted by the State Government.  If any federal congressional action is taken, I would want it to use the 2nd Amendment for laws restricting government action on the "shall not be infringed" statement.  Anything else would be an establishment of "reasons for infringement".
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Restored on April 26, 2018, 01:27:07 pm
All these mass shootings were done with registered guns so it is a moot point.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 26, 2018, 01:28:06 pm
Then can we say your claim we are protected against confiscation by the Constitution is false?  Or will you stop making both claims?



I don't know why you insist that I admit to making "false" claims.  The Heller decision indeed says the 2A protects the individual RKBA.  But the plain text of the 2A, arguably, suggests otherwise.   Yes, the Heller decision represents the law of the land - so, yes, the 2A protects your right.  But are you not concerned that this decision could be overturned, and the view of the dissent adopted as the majority?   I am, and have proposed that the Congress act now, while it still can, to codify the result in Heller.     

Other portions of the Constitution are also relevant including (as I have argued) the Ninth Amendment which provides a basis for the the protection of other, un-enumerated natural rights such as the right to privacy,  and well as the Fifth Amendment's guarantee of due process and the Constitution's prohibition regarding the taking of property without compensation. 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 26, 2018, 01:54:55 pm

I don't know why you insist that I admit to making "false" claims.

Because you repeatedly make conflicting claims.

For example: The Constitution protects our right to have our guns AND the Constitution does not provide the individual right to have our guns.

You just don't make them in the same post.

You give reasons for vehicle registration that are not true.  You don't sign a waiver to avoid registration, you don't have to provide intended purpose.  The law requires registration to use on public roads, not ownership or intent of use, only where.  But then that truth doesn't fit the analogy you try to use to justify gun registration.

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 26, 2018, 01:56:16 pm
All these mass shootings were done with registered guns so it is a moot point.

Registration does nothing to prevent crime, injury or death by the guns.  It only provides limitations for ownership and transfer of property.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 26, 2018, 01:58:44 pm
Registration does nothing to prevent crime, injury or death by the guns.  It only provides limitations for ownership and transfer of property.

Its not about reducing crime, preventing injuries or death.

Its about control and subordination of the people under the heal of the government.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: RoosGirl on April 26, 2018, 02:01:44 pm


Documentation is helpful to the police by linking guns to their owners.   It is hardly a radical notion to ask a citizen to be responsible for the use and safekeeping of the killing devices he/she chooses to own.   
   

Does that mean you'll also be heading the charge for registration of my ice pick, hammers, machetes, kitchen knives and ninja throwing stars?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 26, 2018, 02:10:35 pm
Does that mean you'll also be heading the charge for registration of my ice pick, hammers, machetes, kitchen knives and ninja throwing stars?

@RoosGirl
I would have thought you used all those up last night.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: RoosGirl on April 26, 2018, 02:17:02 pm
@RoosGirl
I would have thought you used all those up last night.

I'll just have to go dig up another cache from the back 40.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Restored on April 26, 2018, 02:32:05 pm
But the plain text of the 2A, arguably, suggests otherwise.   

"The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Sanguine on April 26, 2018, 03:08:41 pm
All these mass shootings were done with registered guns so it is a moot point.


 goopo
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 26, 2018, 03:13:08 pm
"The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 26, 2018, 03:13:40 pm
The efficacy of registration upon the safe use of firearms is influenced in part by whether (as is the case with motor vehicles) it is coupled with an insurance requirement.

Once again, more bullshit to argue that an inalienable Right that Shall Not Be Infringed, is really just a government-granted privilege once a citizen complies with Jazzhead's imposition of tyrannical bureaucracy.  Because you see - you have no right to exercise your right unless you first comply with his scheme of registering your guns and then paying ridiculous insurance fees just to be able to possess one.

Look bub, our Rights are inalienable and insoluble - meaning you and your government may not touch them, impede them, infringe upon them or otherwise make requirements upon us before we are permitted and allowed to exercise them.

Which is all your harebrained tyrannical scheme does.  Turns a Right into a privilege you and your government grant only after we comply with their demands.

NOPE.  NOT. GONNA.  HAPPEN.

But registration is the tool by which the deadly device (car or gun) is linked to the person with color of legal responsibility,  and effectively compels him to dispose of the device in a documented manner.

Exactly.  This is why registration is always demanded by tyrants and genocidal maniacs in power.   It gives them the tool by which private property can be linked to the person that they intend to be compelled to dispose of the device when it is documented that they must be turned into government officials for destruction.   

So no - we are not going to comply with any registration orders, bills, laws or decrees.

Confiscation is not the objective, and the Constitution's protections are the means to ensure that.     

BULLSHIT.  Confiscation is PRECISELY the objective, and any attempt to impose your sick scheme of registration will be regarded as such.  We will not comply.

You will have to empower your government to slaughter us to attempt to force compliance with any registration or insurance demands made due to your advocacy.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Restored on April 26, 2018, 03:17:51 pm
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

That's what I said.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 26, 2018, 03:20:46 pm
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

- - - - - - - - -

It amazes me that some would claim these are not the same people in each amendment.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 26, 2018, 04:01:34 pm
Does that mean you'll also be heading the charge for registration of my ice pick, hammers, machetes, kitchen knives and ninja throwing stars?
@RoosGirl
@mystery-ak
@txradioguy
@thackney
@Cyber Liberty
@CatherineofAragon

Your comment above answered this question posed to you: "It is hardly a radical notion to ask a citizen to be responsible for the use and safekeeping of the killing devices he/she chooses to own."

Besides what you suggest to remove, "ice pick, hammers, machetes, kitchen knives and ninja throwing stars", your list is incomplete.  Here is a partial list of other "killing devices" that must be removed from your house:

1.  Remove all salt from your house.  If a person eats a whole cup of salt, they die.
2.  Take out any natural gas stove.  If the flame goes out, and it doesn't have an automatic shut off, gas will kill everyone in the house.
3.  Remove pots and pans - if hit in the head by these objects, the hit person can die.
4.  Remove regular shoes/boots from your house - it hit in the head by these objects, the hit person can die.
5.  Remove all electric in the wall outlets.  Put a metal object in the outlet for contact and the person can die of electric shock.
6.  Remove tubs from bathrooms.  People can drown in bathtubs.
7.  Have your hands amputated as hands can strangle people to death.
8.  Remove any steps from inside a house, people can fall and die.
9.  Remove any shelf in a house that requires a person to stand on a ladder to reach it - people can fall and die.
10. Remove all ladders from a house; people can fall and die.
11. Remove all electric recliners that raise one up - the power could go off mid-rise, and the person would be stuck half up and half down.  That could cause the person to get anxious and die of a heart attack.
12. Remove all hardware in the kitchen that produces heat to cook food.  The person could get burned and die.
13. Remove pillows from beds; a person could get the pillow on the face and die from not being able to breathe.
14. Remove ceiling fans from rooms.  A tall person could get his/her head cut off by the blades.  That also causes death as the head must be attached for the body to stay alive.
15. Remove all TVs from rooms as some movies and the news are scary and can cause heart attack/death.
16. Remove all computers from every room. A person can get depressed when someone "unfriends" them and they commit suicide.  It is the computer's fault so remove them.
17. Remove all cell phones.  They kill people all the time; people in cars using them; people dying from not eating because they can't put down their phone to eat; people die from no sleep as they can't put down their phone.  People die from no fingers as they wear them down from tweeting so much.  That is why the president has small hands; they are worn down.

Let me know when you have completed this list to make your house safe from deadly killing machines.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 26, 2018, 04:06:14 pm
@RoosGirl

Your comment above answered this question posed to you: "It is hardly a radical notion to ask a citizen to be responsible for the use and safekeeping of the killing devices he/she chooses to own."

Besides what you suggest to remove, "ice pick, hammers, machetes, kitchen knives and ninja throwing stars", your list is incomplete.  Here is a partial list of other "killing devices" that must be removed from your house:

1.  Remove all salt from your house.  If a person eats a whole cup of salt, they die.
2.  Take out any natural gas stove.  If the flame goes out, and it doesn't have an automatic shut off, gas will kill everyone in the house.
3.  Remove pots and pans - if hit in the head by these objects, the hit person can die.
4.  Remove regular shoes/boots from your house - it hit in the head by these objects, the hit person can die.
5.  Remove all electric in the wall outlets.  Put a metal object in the outlet for contact and the person can die of electric shock.
6.  Remove tubs from bathrooms.  People can drown in bathtubs.
7.  Have your hands amputated as hands can strangle people to death.
8.  Remove any steps from inside a house, people can fall and die.
9.  Remove any shelf in a house that requires a person to stand on a ladder to reach it - people can fall and die.
10. Remove all ladders from a house; people can fall and die.
11. Remove all electric recliners that raise one up - the power could go off mid-rise, and the person would be stuck half up and half down.  That could cause the person to get anxious and die of a heart attack.
12. Remove all hardware in the kitchen that produces heat to cook food.  The person could get burned and die.
13. Remove pillows from beds; a person could get the pillow on the face and die from not being able to breathe.
14. Remove ceiling fans from rooms.  A tall person could get his/her head cut off by the blades.  That also causes death as the head must be attached for the body to stay alive.
15. Remove all TVs from rooms as some movies and the news are scary and can cause heart attack/death.
16. Remove all computers from every room. A person can get depressed when someone "unfriends" them and they commit suicide.  It is the computer's fault so remove them.
17. Remove all cell phones.  They kill people all the time; people in cars using them; people dying from not eating because they can't put down their phone to eat; people die from no sleep as they can't put down their phone.  People die from no fingers as they wear them down from tweeting so much.  That is why the president has small hands; they are worn down.

Let me know when you have completed this list to make your house safe from deadly killing machines.
15. Remove

Me?  I like to live on the edge, if not dangerously.  So.... I'll keep all those items you listed there.  In fact, if you can think of any other deadly items I don't have, I'd appreciate the suggestion so I can shop appropriately.

One item I thought of is extension cords.  You can have a nasty (deadly) fall from tripping over one.  I know first-hand... since I'm extremely "ungraceful" in the mornings ...especially before I've had my caffeine fix.  Garden rakes....yikes.   I have a very lethal garden out there!

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 26, 2018, 04:10:51 pm
Me?  I like to live on the edge, if not dangerously.  So.... I'll keep all those items you listed there.  In fact, if you can think of any other deadly items I don't have, I'd appreciate the suggestion so I can shop appropriately.

One item I thought of is extension cords.  You can have a nasty (deadly) fall from tripping over one.  I know first-hand... since I'm extremely "ungraceful" in the mornings ...especially before I've had my caffeine fix.  Garden rakes....yikes.   I have a very lethal garden out there!

 :laugh:

You're already half-way there.  That caffeine can be as fatal as the salt @Victoria33 references in item #1.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 26, 2018, 04:13:22 pm
Your comment above answered this question posed to you: "It is hardly a radical notion to ask a citizen to be responsible for the use and safekeeping of the killing devices he/she chooses to own."

Make no mistake, Jazzhead is not interested in anything that makes any of us 'safe' or responsible in our homes.  He is only interested in making sure he and his government goons are safe when they go about the task of disarming us so that our subjugation can be accomplished with minimal risk to them.

This is because Jazzhead is up scared all night long thinking about all the guns Roamer_1 has bought off the back of a truck in the woods.  Jazzhead doesn't want to live in a country where such people live their lives unmolested by government agents, so such people need to be subjugated to stringent controls of the kind he proposes, or eradicated.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 26, 2018, 04:15:06 pm
It amazes me that some would claim these are not the same people in each amendment.

Have it your way, @thackney.   Just don't blame me when the Dems transform the SCOTUS and prescribe meaning to the 2A's predicate clause.

Just don't say I didn't warn you.   
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 26, 2018, 04:15:41 pm
One item I thought of is extension cords.  You can have a nasty (deadly) fall from tripping over one. 
 :laugh:
@XenaLee

Thanks for the extension cord - I missed that deadly one - fall over it or use it to strangle someone to death.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 26, 2018, 04:16:24 pm
You're already half-way there.  That caffeine can be as fatal as the salt @Victoria33 references in item #1.

You betcha!  And they can pry my java and my salt from my cold, dead hands....

and there might even be a bag of potato chips.   

Viva la vida al máximo!!!


Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: XenaLee on April 26, 2018, 04:17:40 pm
@XenaLee

Thanks for the extension cord - I missed that deadly one - fall over it or use it to strangle someone to death.

Hmmm.... all those married years and I never even thought of that one.  W T H ???

I did, however, have a shredder.   :smokin:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 26, 2018, 04:19:23 pm
Make no mistake, Jazzhead is not interested in anything that makes any of us 'safe' or responsible in our homes.  He is only interested in making sure he and his government goons are safe when they go about the task of disarming us so that our subjugation can be accomplished with minimal risk to them.

This is because Jazzhead is up scared all night long thinking about all the guns Roamer_1 has bought off the back of a truck in the woods.  Jazzhead doesn't want to live in a country where such people live their lives unmolested by government agents, so such people need to be subjugated to stringent controls of the kind he proposes, or eradicated.

What I want to live in is our Constitutional republic, founded on the principal of government by the consent of the governed.   If the peoples' elected representatives favor such reasonable measures as registration of firearms,  you proclaim the right and intent to kill peace officers.  What you seek is anarchy.

 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Victoria33 on April 26, 2018, 04:32:54 pm
Make no mistake, Jazzhead is not interested in anything that makes any of us 'safe' or responsible in our homes.  He is only interested in making sure he and his government goons are safe when they go about the task of disarming us so that our subjugation can be accomplished with minimal risk to them.  This is because Jazzhead is up scared all night long thinking about all the guns Roamer_1 has bought off the back of a truck in the woods.  Jazzhead doesn't want to live in a country where such people live their lives unmolested by government agents, so such people need to be subjugated to stringent controls of the kind he proposes, or eradicated.
@INVAR

Sometimes, being older has its advantage.  Some of the weapons I have, I inherited them from family members who got them before records of any kind were kept.

Here is why government keeps getting in our lives and won't stop:
When a person is elected to a state legislature, or to federal congress, the person must do something to put in front of the public to get elected again.  It is making laws that give them something to brag about to get elected again.  The first number of laws that were passed in our first government, needed to be passed. 

As years went by, no more laws were required, but more had to be passed for the officials to be elected again.  That is why new laws will be passed - forever.  Our Texas legislature meets every TWO years - that gives us a year without new laws.  In states where their legislature always stays in session, more laws will be forced on the citizens EVERY year.  Our US  congress meets eternally, so we are continually losing our freedoms and it can't stop due to the Reps/Senators cooking up laws to get reelected.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 26, 2018, 04:37:10 pm
What I want to live in is our Constitutional republic, founded on the principal of government by the consent of the governed.

I do not consent to be governed by people or their entities that do not recognize or think they can reasonably infringe upon my inalienable rights.

Anyone whose intentions are to transform inalienable rights into government-granted privileges only permitted to be exercised after complying with government regulations and paying specific fees and obtaining specific grants and insurance - is not someone who has any regard for our former Constitutional Republic, and not the kind of people or system I consent to be governed by.

Your proposals makes you a tyrant wannabe of the worst sort. 

If the peoples' elected representatives favor such reasonable measures as registration of firearms,  you proclaim the right and intent to kill peace officers.  What you seek is anarchy.

What I seek, is to make tyrant wannabes like yourself scared shitless of what people like us will do when you idiots make that last mistake.

I don't care if you want to call it anarchy.  Just be afraid, because our will to resist you and your intentions is real and indomitable.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 26, 2018, 04:46:15 pm
Here is why government keeps getting in our lives and won't stop:

It is making laws that give them something to brag about to get elected again. 

It's actually simpler than that.

People want free shit at the expense of someone else without any responsibility and they are happy to use government to achieve that in addition to the fact your neighbors do not trust you with liberty.  They only trust government.

And government and it's members are all-too-happy to oblige that, because it keeps them in power.

Human nature covets wealth and power, and when wealth achieves power, human nature imposes control to ensure there is no threat to their wealth and power.

A people who are ignorant of our foundations are a people who want to be subjects, not citizens.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: thackney on April 26, 2018, 04:50:35 pm
What I want to live in is our Constitutional republic, founded on the principal of government by the consent of the governed.   If the peoples' elected representatives favor such reasonable measures as registration of firearms,  you proclaim the right and intent to kill peace officers.  What you seek is anarchy.

What we seek is consent of governed.  You seek a government that doesn't exist in this country, thankfully.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 26, 2018, 05:15:09 pm
I don't care if you want to call it anarchy.  Just be afraid, because our will to resist you and your intentions is real and indomitable.

 :tongue2:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Elderberry on April 26, 2018, 05:19:10 pm
I saw activity on this thread, and it struck me. I thought up a reason that made sense, at least to me, why a doctor would ask about guns.

But then I saw that this thread had perverted to registration.

My thought though, if once the doc asked about guns, he would continue to ask if you were a reloader? And if so, he would ask if you cast your own bullets? And if you did, do you do your bullet casting in a well ventilated area to prevent the inhalation of lead vapors? We may need to test you for lead.

That was my thought. Feel free to beat that Dead Horse some more.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Restored on April 26, 2018, 05:24:04 pm
Jazz: We need to register guns.
Me: They are already registered
Jazz: We need to register them more.

Jazz, cars kill more people than guns. Why do we register cars first?
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 26, 2018, 05:31:44 pm
I saw activity on this thread, and it struck me. I thought up a reason that made sense, at least to me, why a doctor would ask about guns.

But then I saw that this thread had perverted to registration.

My thought though, if once the doc asked about guns, he would continue to ask if you were a reloader? And if so, he would ask if you cast your own bullets? And if you did, do you do your bullet casting in a well ventilated area to prevent the inhalation of lead vapors? We may need to test you for lead.

That was my thought. Feel free to beat that Dead Horse some more.

If your Doc is a real suck-up to the politically correct Powers That Be, he'd be asking about guns to see if you are "sick" enough to simply own a gun (as defined by the CDC).  It has nothing to do with the harmful physiological effects of lead casting, but of the harmful societal effects of being one of those dreaded owners of Killing Machines.  (Especially if you are completely irresponsible and don't depend on daddy government to keep a list of who has these evil instruments.)  He may even be the sort to make sure his pals in the government are provided with the results of that exam room interrogation (it may even be required in some states).  Doctors don't work for the patients anymore, nor even the Insurance companies.  They work for the bureau that licenses them in that state, and they serve at their pleasure.

That's how the thread got onto the subject of "registration."  Sorry if that was not your expectation.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Elderberry on April 26, 2018, 05:44:49 pm
I post  with no preconceived expectations. I just throw it out there.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 26, 2018, 05:51:06 pm
I post  with no preconceived expectations. I just throw it out there.

@Elderberry
The move to encourage doctors to ask patients about gun ownership doesn't have its foundation in healthcare.  The concept was created out of the gun control movement and is an effort to use medical doctors to pressure people with firearms.   Dangerous considering your MD can declare you unfit and dangerous and have you hospitalized.   Never to possess a legal firearm again.

Which is their ultimate goal.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 26, 2018, 05:54:34 pm
:tongue2:

@Jazzhead
Your responses are an excellent example of why gunowners have very little trust and reject so called offers to compromise.

While you say repeatedly that you don't want to ban guns and just want common sense laws the truth is there in  your posts.    You are simply hiding your ultimate goal in an effort to push your agenda.

 No you consider gun owners dangerous to the community and would cheer the banning of all firearms.   Which is why nobody believes a word you say when you say you support the 2nd Amendment and nobody trust the left.  Because you both have lied time after time.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 26, 2018, 06:18:23 pm
@Jazzhead
Your responses are an excellent example of why gunowners have very little trust and reject so called offers to compromise.

While you say repeatedly that you don't want to ban guns and just want common sense laws the truth is there in  your posts.    You are simply hiding your ultimate goal in an effort to push your agenda.

 No you consider gun owners dangerous to the community and would cheer the banning of all firearms.   Which is why nobody believes a word you say when you say you support the 2nd Amendment and nobody trust the left.  Because you both have lied time after time.

He does what all Leftist Trolls do on Conservative forum boards.

It amuses them and also provides them the space to try and inflict their agenda on the easily beguiled and ignorant.

He is being shown that crap he spews doesn't fly here.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 26, 2018, 06:30:04 pm
Some do, some don't.   The point is there is far more incentive for the owner of a registered gun to report it stolen than the owner of an unregistered and untraceable gun.


I have guns, properly stored, that I haven't seen in years.  How the hell would I know if they've been stolen? And how does my not reporting (because unaware) make me responsible for whatever a criminal may do?

Quote
Documentation is helpful to the police by linking guns to their owners.   It is hardly a radical notion to ask a citizen to be responsible for the use and safekeeping of the killing devices he/she chooses to own.   

LOL! Howabout the truckloads of guns that will come over the border to fuel the market? how are you going to register those? because those are the ones that the criminals will be using.

This whole line of thinking assumes a radically closed system which hilariously untrue... And always will be.
 
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 26, 2018, 06:45:05 pm
This is because Jazzhead is up scared all night long thinking about all the guns Roamer_1 has bought off the back of a truck in the woods.  Jazzhead doesn't want to live in a country where such people live their lives unmolested by government agents, so such people need to be subjugated to stringent controls of the kind he proposes, or eradicated.

@INVAR
That's exactly right. And the funny part is, if all of his wet dreams came true, those trucks would still be there, and I'd still be buying my guns there.

And there ain't a damn thing anyone can do about it. All that would have happened at that point is that he will have made me a criminal for doing so...
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 26, 2018, 06:51:09 pm
What I want to live in is our Constitutional republic, founded on the principal of government by the consent of the governed.   If the peoples' elected representatives favor such reasonable measures as registration of firearms,  you proclaim the right and intent to kill peace officers.  What you seek is anarchy.


Your 'peoples representatives' are prevented from doing so by our founding documents. That they would do so anyway is not law, but the color of law. Our founding document, the DoI, provides the remedy and duty in that instance.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 26, 2018, 06:55:08 pm
@Jazzhead
Your responses are an excellent example of why gunowners have very little trust and reject so called offers to compromise.

While you say repeatedly that you don't want to ban guns and just want common sense laws the truth is there in  your posts.    You are simply hiding your ultimate goal in an effort to push your agenda.

 No you consider gun owners dangerous to the community and would cheer the banning of all firearms.   Which is why nobody believes a word you say when you say you support the 2nd Amendment and nobody trust the left.  Because you both have lied time after time.

 :amen: blij26 :word:
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 26, 2018, 06:55:35 pm
Your proposals makes you a tyrant wannabe of the worst sort. 

That's right... Liberals all think they know better than you, and they're doing it 'for your own good'. There ain't a worse kind.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Jazzhead on April 26, 2018, 07:48:22 pm
@Jazzhead

 No you consider gun owners dangerous to the community and would cheer the banning of all firearms.   

Bullshit.  Absolutely untrue.  I do not participate on this board to lie and promote some hidden agenda, but rather to state my opinions on the issues of the day.  In a nutshell:

1.  I support the individual RKBA.   I support the Heller decision that says so, although I fear that the decision is fragile because the language of the 2A is flawed.   I advocate doing something to codify Heller in order in ENSURE THAT YOUR RKBA REMAINS PROTECTED.

2.  I have no agenda, hidden or otherwise, to confiscate your guns.  NONE.   I have repeatedly said I oppose lib attempts to limit the kinds and quantities of guns you want.  I have merely supported licensure and registration, same as with motor vehicles.  As far as I am concerned,  so long as you register them, you can own a dozen AR-15s.   

3.  Unlike many here, I have faith in this Constitutional Republic to protect against confiscation of legally owned firearms.   I do not consider this nation a "tyranny", but rather a nation of laws,  enacted by lawmakers who govern with the consent of the governed.  And backstopped by a judiciary obliged to uphold the rights of citizens as provided for in the Constitution.

I am, in short, a conservative on the issue of the 2A, even though I choose not to own guns myself for sound reasons I have explained before.  I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TAKING YOUR GUNS.     
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 26, 2018, 07:59:04 pm
I am, in short, a conservative on the issue of the 2A, even though I choose not to own guns myself for sound reasons I have explained before.  I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TAKING YOUR GUNS.   

I don't think that will pass muster with anyone here...
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: INVAR on April 26, 2018, 08:03:28 pm
That's right... Liberals all think they know better than you, and they're doing it 'for your own good'. There ain't a worse kind.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

This describes Jazzy to a T, seeking to impose a meddlesome tyranny for our own good, while he insists he is not a gun-grabbing-homo-shoving Leftist nut job pretending to be a Conservative.

Not a single solitary issue I have ever read from him on this board could be construed by anyone with a brain to resemble a Conservative position or idea.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 26, 2018, 08:14:42 pm
I don't think that will pass muster with anyone here...

I learned when I was knee-high to a grasshopper that when the mouth goes one way and the actions go another, believe the actions.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 26, 2018, 08:15:30 pm
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

This describes Jazzy to a T, seeking to impose a meddlesome tyranny for our own good, while he insists he is not a gun-grabbing-homo-shoving Leftist nut job pretending to be a Conservative.

Not a single solitary issue I have ever read from him on this board could be construed by anyone with a brain to resemble a Conservative position or idea.

Liberals hate Lewis, and call him stoopit.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 26, 2018, 08:18:20 pm
This describes Jazzy to a T, seeking to impose a meddlesome tyranny for our own good, while he insists he is not a gun-grabbing-homo-shoving Leftist nut job pretending to be a Conservative.

Not a single solitary issue I have ever read from him on this board could be construed by anyone with a brain to resemble a Conservative position or idea.

Exactly right, and on all counts...
And that CS Lewis quote is among the most erudite.
Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: roamer_1 on April 26, 2018, 08:25:51 pm
I learned when I was knee-high to a grasshopper that when the mouth goes one way and the actions go another, believe the actions.

That's right... And why one must always return to the principles of conservatism - without them, it can be anything folks might come up with, and call 'conservative'.

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: Axeslinger on April 26, 2018, 09:13:13 pm
Bullshit.  Absolutely untrue.  I do not participate on this board to lie and promote some hidden agenda, but rather to state my opinions on the issues of the day.  In a nutshell:

1.  I support the individual RKBA.   I support the Heller decision that says so, although I fear that the decision is fragile because the language of the 2A is flawed.   I advocate doing something to codify Heller in order in ENSURE THAT YOUR RKBA REMAINS PROTECTED.

2.  I have no agenda, hidden or otherwise, to confiscate your guns.  NONE.   I have repeatedly said I oppose lib attempts to limit the kinds and quantities of guns you want.  I have merely supported licensure and registration, same as with motor vehicles.  As far as I am concerned,  so long as you register them, you can own a dozen AR-15s.   

3.  Unlike many here, I have faith in this Constitutional Republic to protect against confiscation of legally owned firearms.   I do not consider this nation a "tyranny", but rather a nation of laws,  enacted by lawmakers who govern with the consent of the governed.  And backstopped by a judiciary obliged to uphold the rights of citizens as provided for in the Constitution.

I am, in short, a conservative on the issue of the 2A, even though I choose not to own guns myself for sound reasons I have explained before.  I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TAKING YOUR GUNS.   
m
@Jazzhead

Ok I’m gonna try (and fail, forewarning) to not lose my temper on your silly ass.

We DONT BELIEVE YOU.   We think you are lying troll.  Your own doublespeak has caused this.  Try and lawyer your way out of it all you want, we don’t give a shit.  You are either a liar or a drooling moron. 

See, because here’s the rub: you say you don’t want anyone taking our guns...but that’s exactly what happens when your bullshit schemes are employed.   We’ve told you this ad nauseum and yet you keep spouting it.  Therefore, you have a different agenda, one we’ve seen many times.  WE WILL NOT COMPLY!  And if the left tries to implement your bullshit schemes as your concern troll keeps telling us, the same end result happens:  it’s time to water the tree.  So in short, come up with new material, volunteer to go on the raids or STFU!

Title: Re: Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns
Post by: driftdiver on April 26, 2018, 11:54:18 pm
Bullshit.  Absolutely untrue.  I do not participate on this board to lie and promote some hidden agenda, but rather to state my opinions on the issues of the day.  In a nutshell:

1.  I support the individual RKBA.   I support the Heller decision that says so, although I fear that the decision is fragile because the language of the 2A is flawed.   I advocate doing something to codify Heller in order in ENSURE THAT YOUR RKBA REMAINS PROTECTED.

2.  I have no agenda, hidden or otherwise, to confiscate your guns.  NONE.   I have repeatedly said I oppose lib attempts to limit the kinds and quantities of guns you want.  I have merely supported licensure and registration, same as with motor vehicles.  As far as I am concerned,  so long as you register them, you can own a dozen AR-15s.   

3.  Unlike many here, I have faith in this Constitutional Republic to protect against confiscation of legally owned firearms.   I do not consider this nation a "tyranny", but rather a nation of laws,  enacted by lawmakers who govern with the consent of the governed.  And backstopped by a judiciary obliged to uphold the rights of citizens as provided for in the Constitution.

I am, in short, a conservative on the issue of the 2A, even though I choose not to own guns myself for sound reasons I have explained before.  I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TAKING YOUR GUNS.   

@Jazzhead

You're twisting of words is bullshit.  You've insulted gun owners.  You've said we are a threat to our neighbors.

All while pushing nonsense that does nothing to reduce crime but does make it much more difficult to own a firearm.  Your doubletalk is exactly what so many closet anti gunners do.

It's why I will not support a single step down the path of compromise.  Because nothing is enough for you guys except a total ban.