The Briefing Room
Briefing Room Polls (Guests Welcome!) => The Briefingroom Polls => Topic started by: Machiavelli on September 03, 2018, 11:06:35 pm
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Is the deep state a real threat or is it just another paranoid conspiracy theory?
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Don't have to look any further than the Dossier, who's hands it passed through and what ultimately happened to it to know that there is an active shadow govt' at work.
(https://i0.wp.com/thenationalsentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/pjimage-13-1-600x300.jpg?fit=600%2C300&ssl=1)
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I think it's a paranoid conspiracy theory propagated primarily by the most fanatical supporters of Donald Trump. I am not talking about all or most Trump supporters, of course.
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Don't have to look any further than the Dossier, who's hands it passed through and what ultimately happened to it to know that there is an active shadow govt' at work.
@Frank Cannon
Did you forget your sarcasm tag? :laugh:
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@Frank Cannon
Did you forget your sarcasm tag? :laugh:
Yeah, I've been listening to you kooks trying to convince everyone that there is nothing to see here. Obama and his crew didn't bug Trump Towers, didn't engage govt' officials in manufacturing dirt on opposing candidates, didn't actively tank real criminality by multiple players on their team and so on and so forth. There is a deep state. It has been exposed. It is not a debate anymore.
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It's pretty well documented. They are prosecuting sitting GOP congress persons for far less.
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I think it's a paranoid conspiracy theory propagated primarily by the most fanatical supporters of Donald Trump. I am not talking about all or most Trump supporters, of course.
I almost agree with you - Though I cannot vote the poll, because the correct answer would be 'both'.
There is an old adage that a church ceases to be a church the minute the pews are moved in... And I think that to be true - There is in any organization a distinct and inherent drive toward promotion and survival. The church would, in some sense, become more about its bricks and mortar than it is about its message.
That innate drive toward continuity is also present in government, with the unfortunate sum-total that, in the case of promotion and survival, government of its own weight, will try to get bigger, badder, faster, better; and that, in the perspective of an all powerful state, IS communism/socialism.
Thus the 'deep state' is to be found in the places of government that draw a pension. Those middle management departments that do not change with elections... That those tend toward authoritarianism, and are comfortable with an overweening state should be no surprise.
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I think it's a paranoid conspiracy theory propagated primarily by the most fanatical supporters of Donald Trump. I am not talking about all or most Trump supporters, of course.
Do you know the hierarchy? Where does any POTUS have standing on certain issues? I don't know if "deep state" really imbues the state of the state.
Look at the imbroglio surrounding the death of John McCain.
But even closer. If I apply for documentation under the FOIA and all I get is a heavily redacted piece of paper...
And I call BS when they claim "national security". Every CITIZEN IS national security.
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Presidents come & go but the "deep bureaucracy" continues on & on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Executive_Service_(United_States)
(along with the so-called "military-industrial complex"...i.e. "forever war").
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Presidents come & go but the "deep bureaucracy" continues on & on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Executive_Service_(United_States)
(along with the so-called "military-industrial complex"...i.e. "forever war").
Donald Rumsfeld was both the youngest and oldest SECDEF, with about 25 years between terms IIRC. This gives him a rather unique perspective on the MIC, which he discusses in his autobiography. Basically, SECDEF and the rest of the administrations aren't such a big deal to these people, because they'll be gone and replaced with someone else in a few years anyway.
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I wish there was an “I don’t know option†.Because I don’t know much about this subject, I’m sorry to say.
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I think it's a paranoid conspiracy theory propagated primarily by the most fanatical supporters of Donald Trump. I am not talking about all or most Trump supporters, of course.
I used to believe that way, but the recent revelations about the abuse of the FISA system to enable surveillance of a Presidential Campaign pushed me in the other direction. Worse than Watergate.
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Oh I don't know, I think the evidence of an untouchable Criminal Oligarchy that runs the country is self-evident - if one wishes to look at it.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,329257.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,329257.0.html)
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Deep State isn't a conspiracy but just the current American bureaucracy. Such bureaucracies have been present from antiquity. The bigger the government, the bigger the bureaucracy.
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Deep State isn't a conspiracy but just the current American bureaucracy. Such bureaucracies have been present from antiquity. The bigger the government, the bigger the bureaucracy.
EVERY government is as such, which is why small government is the only way. A government big enough to take care of you, is big enough to enslave you... And they always do.
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I used to believe that way, but the recent revelations about the abuse of the FISA system to enable surveillance of a Presidential Campaign pushed me in the other direction. Worse than Watergate.
Me, too. Took the election of 2016 to make it real for me. Before that, I was comfortable believing in the FBI just like I believe in mom, baseball and apple pie.
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@endicom @roamer_1 @aligncare @Freya
There are two different types of deep state. The deep pocket money behind the power. And the shallowness of the bureaucracy.
Maybe really what I mean is the hive mind. "Queen bees" "Drones", and the "Workers". All in step to produce...honey.
And if you actually read history. And not only the history written by the victors, there is a deep state.
In very many ways, I have a sharing with @Quix many of you scoff at.
Read the history(s). Then decide.
In a very real sense, or is the term insensate. Too many with a low IQ, @LegalAmerican.
@MOD3
WHAT kind of Mod couldn't spare ONE little Neutron Bomb in all of their (combined) nuclear arsenals?????
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I think it's a paranoid conspiracy theory propagated primarily by the most fanatical supporters of Donald Trump. I am not talking about all or most Trump supporters, of course.
In that case, it is my firm opinion that you don't have a clue!
The entrenched federal bureaucracy is the single biggest threat to our liberty in existence.
Edit to add that I have been saying that for far longer than the President has been on the political scene.
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Presidents come & go but the "deep bureaucracy" continues on & on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Executive_Service_(United_States)
(along with the so-called "military-industrial complex"...i.e. "forever war").
Multiply the power, times all of the major departments. Each department is a perpetual motioon machine (complete with thousands of employees, billions of costs--with regulations, rules to push forever leftward).
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I wish there was an “I don’t know option†.Because I don’t know much about this subject, I’m sorry to say.
So you're the one that keeps voting for the 'Smoke moore Beer' option in my polls, @Freya.
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Don't have to look any further than the Dossier, who's hands it passed through and what ultimately happened to it to know that there is an active shadow govt' at work.
(https://i0.wp.com/thenationalsentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/pjimage-13-1-600x300.jpg?fit=600%2C300&ssl=1)
Dang. D.C. really is Hollywood for ugly people.
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So you're the one that keeps voting for the 'Smoke moore Beer' option in my polls, @Freya.
No I vape
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Is the deep state a real threat or is it just another paranoid conspiracy theory?
Uhhhhhhhh . . . is this a trick question?
1. There's no 'theory' to it. They prove it in their own words in their own writings and speeches the last 200+ years. George Washington mentioned it in his personal letters--which are PRIMARY SOURCE materials.
2. There are, IIRC, more than 50 of their own quotes in their own words here:
http://www.globalistagenda.org/quotes.htmh (http://www.globalistagenda.org/quotes.htmh)
3. A real threat? Not unless you believe that the following are problems or a threat (/sarc):
A) forced genocidal murder of the global citizens to a remaining total of no more than 500 persons;
B) forced bio-chemical and electronic !!!CONTROL!!! of individual citizens in virtually all aspects of their lives;
C) Destruction of most cities and herding the remaining individuals into concrete Soviet style rabbit warrens for the serfs and slaves left.
D) Forced returning most of the landscape to a 'natural state.'
E) Immediate execution for law breakers by a tyrannical police force acting as judge, jury & immediate executioner. Last I heard, there was some debate on whether they should do that with the first parking ticket or the 2nd one.
F) Forced eugenics based birth control with few allowed to have children--particularly among the serfs & slaves.
G) Destruction of the middle class. Obummer almost achieved that.
H) Raising of all children by The State. Not only no home schooling, no home rearing of children.
I) Worship of & total submission to the Anti Christ.
J) Free-wheeling sexual and other abuse of the serfs and slaves with impunity by the ruling elite.
K) Confiscation of all property.
L) A bastardized form of communism wedded to a bastardized-monopolistic form of 'capitalism' as the economic, governmental structure.
etc.
THE BABYLON CODE traces the rot all the way back to Babylon. More or less the same bloodlines have maintained their wealth and control of power through all the centuries.
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In that case, it is my firm opinion that you don't have a clue!
The entrenched federal bureaucracy is the single biggest threat to our liberty in existence.
Edit to add that I have been saying that for far longer than the President has been on the political scene.
Abolutely.
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Deep State isn't a conspiracy but just the current American bureaucracy. Such bureaucracies have been present from antiquity. The bigger the government, the bigger the bureaucracy.
It is worse than the mere horrors of a big bureaucracy. It is a satanic strategized, planned, schemed horror show from millennia ago toward this END TIMES period as Scripture outlines. The bureaucracy just happens to be their main bunch of useful idiot stooges.
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Yeah, I've been listening to you kooks trying to convince everyone that there is nothing to see here. Obama and his crew didn't bug Trump Towers, didn't engage govt' officials in manufacturing dirt on opposing candidates, didn't actively tank real criminality by multiple players on their team and so on and so forth. There is a deep state. It has been exposed. It is not a debate anymore.
Jesus is clearly coming soon--I agree with Frank Canon!
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I think it's a paranoid conspiracy theory propagated primarily by the most fanatical supporters of Donald Trump. [snip]
You are bright enough to be 100,000% better informed. Sheesh.
Please read at least half the leader's quotes from the last 200 years in their own writings and speeches
http://www.globalistagenda.org/quotes.htm (http://www.globalistagenda.org/quotes.htm)
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@Machiavelli,
You are bright enough to be 100,000% better informed. Sheesh.
Please read at least half the leader's quotes from the last 200 years in their own writings and speeches
http://www.globalistagenda.org/quotes.htm (http://www.globalistagenda.org/quotes.htm)
""This is a terrible thing to say. In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.""
Jacques Cousteau in an interview with the UNESCO Courier for November 1991
Note: Cousteau was talking about deliberately exterminating an extra 350,000 individuals per day above the natural death rate.
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It's a conspiracy theory for weak minded dullards.
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It's a conspiracy theory for weak minded dullards.
No need to go there, dude. Plenty of intelligent, thoughtful people see things differently than you on this subject. Doesn’t make them dullards or wrong.
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It's a conspiracy theory for weak minded dullards.
@aligncare
Maybe. Just maybe. Aren't you the one suggesting "Zello"? WTF is that WTF?
You want or have a need to talk to people. And then have the opinion that the opinion of people who DO know how to read instead of just talk, are dullards?
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It's a conspiracy theory for weak minded dullards.
Well then you have a legitimate reason for the path the Dossier took and how it ended up as a cornerstone for Special Prosecutors investigation. You can also explain why everyone involved with signing FISA warrants are now being investigated for criminality.
Can't wait for your explanation.
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Well then you have a legitimate reason for the path the Dossier took and how it ended up as a cornerstone for Special Prosecutors investigation. You can also explain why everyone involved with signing FISA warrants are now being investigated for criminality.
Can't wait for your explanation.
+1
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You can also explain why everyone involved with signing FISA warrants are now being investigated for criminality.
Or dead.
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For what my opinion is worth (no one likes it anyway), I think there have been and always will be people, from all belief systems, right to left to everything else you can imagine, who desire that sort of power that people associate with the 'deep state'. There are always people and groups that want to run things....
.....but I believe in the law of increasing incompetence in regards to the government. The more they try to do and control, the more incompetent they become.
Sure there are groups like the Club of Rome, Bilderbergers, Southern Baptist Convention, and Kentucky Fried Chicken who love to sit around, smoke cigars, and dream about plans to run things the way they want- usually not as notorious as most imagine. But the world and human nature is just far too complex and most are far too incompetent to do much beyond raise the price of tinfoil.
I believe there is a hell of a lot more chaos out there, even in the halls of power, than most are comfortable admitting. It is one thing to believe there are secret controllers pulling all the strings, but to many, it is far more frightening to think that it is mostly chaos run by the incompetent which is (and has always through our history) hanging on by a thread.
It is why people cling to conspiracy theories, because frankly, the alternative is more frightening.
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Well then you have a legitimate reason for the path the Dossier took and how it ended up as a cornerstone for Special Prosecutors investigation. You can also explain why everyone involved with signing FISA warrants are now being investigated for criminality.
Can't wait for your explanation.
Incompetence.
Someone wrote an outrageous fiction worthy of The Onion (any one of us could have come up with something more plausible than peeing on beds). They probably thought, for shits and giggles (and a few dollars) they would pass it up.
Incompetent people all along the chain kept passing it up. They all failed to have even an iota of discernment- they simply wanted to believe something that fit their view- confirmation bias. None had the proper judgement to say stop. And so on and so on and so on. The higher up the chain, the greater the level of incompetence. All it would have taken would be for one person to have said 'stop, this doesn't sound right, let's look a bit more'. But they were too incompetent.
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@AbaraXas
More than one person has said that these people in D.C. couldn't pull off a conspiracy because they couldn't agree on anything. That, as you have said, incompetence rules the day. Chaos is normal.
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Incompetence.
Someone wrote an outrageous fiction worthy of The Onion (any one of us could have come up with something more plausible than peeing on beds). They probably thought, for shits and giggles (and a few dollars) they would pass it up.
Incompetent people all along the chain kept passing it up. They all failed to have even an iota of discernment- they simply wanted to believe something that fit their view- confirmation bias. None had the proper judgement to say stop. And so on and so on and so on. The higher up the chain, the greater the level of incompetence. All it would have taken would be for one person to have said 'stop, this doesn't sound right, let's look a bit more'. But they were too incompetent.
Are you really Jerzy Kosiński?
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Incompetence.
Someone wrote an outrageous fiction worthy of The Onion (any one of us could have come up with something more plausible than peeing on beds). They probably thought, for shits and giggles (and a few dollars) they would pass it up.
Incompetent people all along the chain kept passing it up. They all failed to have even an iota of discernment- they simply wanted to believe something that fit their view- confirmation bias. None had the proper judgement to say stop. And so on and so on and so on. The higher up the chain, the greater the level of incompetence. All it would have taken would be for one person to have said 'stop, this doesn't sound right, let's look a bit more'. But they were too incompetent.
None of the participants were incompetent. Just read the texts and the actions the people took. McCain didn't send one of his stooges to the UK to get a copy, read it and then said it would be a lark to send it to the FBI. McCabe, Rosenstooge, Ohr and Struck didn't look at it, have a good laugh and then decide to put their asses in legal jeopardy signing FISA warrants because they thought it would make for chortle worthy chit chat at the Selgrave Club over martinis. Obama and Hitlary didn't coordinate shepherding this Dossier through it's channels because they though Trump would have a good laugh about it after he lost the election. Obama and Holder didn't wire tap Trump towers because they thought it would be cool to play the tapes at Richard Branson's island parties.
Your whole premise is flawed by the fact that we have evidence that serious people with a serious mission were working in concert to conduct a specific mission.