The Briefing Room
General Category => World News => Topic started by: DB on March 29, 2018, 06:39:46 pm
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By Michael W. Chapman | March 29, 2018 | 10:45 AM EDT
In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.
https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/pope-francis-there-no-hell (https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/pope-francis-there-no-hell)
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Last Pope?
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Kinda negates the point of his existence.
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@DB Got a link?
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I want Benedict back.
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@DB Got a link?
I just posted it... Sorry about that...
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Like most Leftist politicians (which is what he is in reality), he says a thing and then backs down when there is blowback. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't say this, at least not in this context. I don't know?
So what were all those 'indulgences' about?
There are many definitions of what hell is in various religions. Maybe he was saying that there is no hell as it is commonly defined by the Christian religion.
If he actually said this and meant it, the logical corollary would be that there is no heaven as well. If there is no heaven and no hell, then there is no God to worry about and the whole thing is pointless.
Strangest Pope ever. He seems to be trying to work his way out of his own job.
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I believe this Pope is evil. Period.
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I was debating about posting this since it is headline news on Drudge.....fair warning if this turns into an attack on the Catholic faith I will shut it down.
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Like most Leftist politicians (which is what he is in reality), he says a thing and then backs down when there is blowback. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't say this, at least not in this context. I don't know?
So what were all those 'indulgences' about?
There are many definitions of what hell is in various religions. Maybe he was saying that there is no hell as it is commonly defined by the Christian religion.
If he actually said this and meant it, the logical corollary would be that there is no heaven as well. If there is no heaven and no hell, then there is no God to worry about and the whole thing is pointless.
Strangest Pope ever. He seems to be trying to work his way out of his own job.
Hell is described in the OT. Christians merely use what had already been described.
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The Pope today: "There is no Hell"
The Pope tomorrow: "There is no Christ - only Muhammed".
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Hell is described in the OT. Christians merely use what had already been described.
I cannot respond to this post because that would make this a religious thread and those are not allowed here. The thread would be locked or pulled immediately.
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I cannot respond to this post because that would make this a religious thread and those are not allowed here. The thread would be locked or pulled immediately.
Sorry, that was wrong of me.
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:2popcorn:
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I'll say only that there are far too many Protestants who would agree with him.
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.....fair warning if this turns into an attack on the Catholic faith I will shut it down.
Didn't you hear the Pontiff? There is no Catholic faith anymore. It's an arm of the social justice movement now.
Easter has been cancelled by the Pope so that resources can be better spent on Earth Day.
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Hell is described in the OT. Christians merely use what had already been described.
Jesus mentions it once in the New Testament as well: the parable of the man sent to Hell after he died, and wants to warn his friends, but is denied because they won't listen.
Paul, on the other hand, seems to imply Hell is on Earth and death for sinners is total death.
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Sorry, that was wrong of me.
No, not at all. It's not you, it's me. I could write several paragraphs on your point, and this is not the place for that. I had to check myself that I don't get carried away. LOL
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uAj4wBIU-8#)
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Last Pope?
I think it is according to St. Malachi
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Jesus mentions it once in the New Testament as well: the parable of the man sent to Hell after he died, and wants to warn his friends, but is denied because they won't listen.
Paul, on the other hand, seems to imply Hell is on Earth and death for sinners is total death.
Jesus mentions it multiple times. It is mentioned in 3 Gospels. Matthew 5:22, 5:29, 10:28, 18:9, 23:33, Mark 9:47,Luke 10:15, 12:5
For instance: And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
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I was debating about posting this since it is headline news on Drudge.....fair warning if this turns into an attack on the Catholic faith I will shut it down.
I love being a Catholic. I don't feel the same about this Pope.
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There are three words translated into the English word 'hell' in scripture.
In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word is sheol - which means 'grave' or hole in the ground.
In the Greek, the words are hades, which has the same meaning as sheol (unless you are referencing the Greek god of the underworld), Tartarus - which is used only once in 2 Peter 2:4-6 and is in reference to Satan and demons being in a place of outer darkness reserved for judgement, and Gehenna - which was a literal place in Jerusalem where garbage was thrown and burned day and night.
From a theological view, nearly all Bible-Believing Christians acknowledge a lake of fire or 'Gehenna' as Jesus ascribes it - where Satan and Death and the Wicked who are not Written in the Book of Life are cast into (Revelation 20).
The debate is usually over whether being cast into that Gehenna is a permanent existence in burning misery for all eternity, or the cessation of life and consciousness for all eternity: aka the Second Death.
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The Hebrew word for hell is ×’Öµ×™×”Ö´× ×•Ö¹× (gehenom). The Hebrew word for a grave is קבר (kevar).
Sheol apparently is 'the underworld' which could be translated to hell, but more of the Greek version of hell.
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Is the Pope Catholic?
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I was debating about posting this since it is headline news on Drudge.....fair warning if this turns into an attack on the Catholic faith I will shut it down.
Not even a short peep about how the Pope is now a "Really Happy" "Comrade" alternative "Kingdom Hall frequenter"?
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Is the Pope Catholic?
Not this week.
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Does this mean I can't tell people to Go To Hell anymore?
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Does this mean I can't tell people to Go To Hell anymore?
You can but it doesn't mean anything.
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You can but it doesn't mean anything.
That could change the dynamic of this whole forum. :pondering:
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Does this mean I can't tell people to Go To Hell anymore?
You'd have more impact telling them to go to Rochester NY.
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You'd have more impact telling them to go to Rochester NY.
Is this Hell? No, It's Rochester.....
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Does this mean I can't tell people to Go To Hell anymore?
Just tell them to go to TOS...
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Kinda negates the point of his existence.
I believe his job concerns recruiting, for Heaven. Fear of hell, is a negative pitch in their quiver of arguments.
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Is the Pope Catholic?
I don’t think this one is even Christian. I did, however, convert to Catholicism three years ago, so he’s not a deterrent to the faith.
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I don’t think this one is even Christian. I did, however, convert to Catholicism three years ago, so he’s not a deterrent to the faith.
Welcome to the Friday Crappie Brigade. 888high58888
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The Pope spoke with some 93 year old Atheist philosopher who used notes to reconstruct what the Pope said, there's really no proof he said this.
https://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=77113 (https://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=77113)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/03/29/did-pope-francis-say-there-no-hell-not-quite-vatican-insists/470442002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/03/29/did-pope-francis-say-there-no-hell-not-quite-vatican-insists/470442002/)
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Well... I guess if the Chinese space station lands on the Vatican this weekend, we'll know what God thinks of all this... :pondering:
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Some very funny comments.. :silly: :silly: :silly:
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The pope never met my ex wife.
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Well... I guess if the Chinese space station lands on the Vatican this weekend, we'll know what God thinks of all this... :pondering:
Lets see. Rome is located at 41.9028° N, 12.4964° E... Based on the target zone that is at the high end of the North Latitude range for a possible hit. If it does strike the Vatican..... I think we could chalk it up as an act of God!
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Well, this begs the question of what happened to all the people that I thought were going to hell or deserved to go..... :smokin:
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@Sanguine
Hell is described in the OT. Christians merely use what had already been described.
Hell is also discussed in the NT. In fact, John MacArthur has determined that Jesus spoke 9 times as much about hell as He spoke about heaven.
I guess the Pope assumes his unbelief will save him.
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Well, this begs the question of what happened to all the people that I thought were going to hell or deserved to go..... :smokin:
It sounds to me like instead of being thrown into a sea of fire, they get sent to a cheap motel in Las Vegas.
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Is the Pope Catholic?
Where I come from, we ask Is a bear Catholic? And does the Pope...?
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Didn't you hear the Pontiff? There is no Catholic faith anymore. It's an arm of the social justice movement now.
Easter has been cancelled by the Pope so that resources can be better spent on Earth Day.
The pope disposed of hell? Purgatory too?
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The pope just ruined another good weekend. Why even bother if you can't get whiskey bent and hell bound. It just ain't the same.
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(Imagine) The pope disposed of hell? Purgatory too?
"It easy if you ttry"
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@Sanguine
Hell is also discussed in the NT. In fact, John MacArthur has determined that Jesus spoke 9 times as much about hell as He spoke about heaven.
I guess the Pope assumes his unbelief will save him.
Interesting number. I didn't realize that.
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Welcome to the Friday Crappie Brigade. 888high58888
888high58888
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This Pope is a real killjoy, doing this right before Easter.
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Well, this begs the question of what happened to all the people that I thought were going to hell or deserved to go..... :smokin:
@mystery-ak
Every church on earth is run by humans. Humans screw up. No human is the church. Many try to denigrate a church based on human error, which happens all the time. So, the Pope is not the church; he is a human elected to the highest office in the church. Nothing he says affects my membership in the Catholic Church - my faith does not depend on him.
He could come forth and directly speak to these quotes of his and settle the matter, but he appears to be relying on the spokesman of the church to do that, which was not a definitive answer as to whether he said it or not. Leaving this hanging does not serve him well. This is his problem to handle and has nothing to do with my going to church this Easter.
As for hell: Jesus says it is there and I believe Him rather than the human Pope. Perhaps the human Pope should read the New Testament if he truly thinks there is no hell. *mad* *mad*
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If he actually said this and meant it, the logical corollary would be that there is no heaven as well. If there is no heaven and no hell, then there is no God to worry about and the whole thing is pointless.
@240B
[/quote]
Well,SOME people might say that living a just life is reward enough.
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Well,SOME people might say that living a just life is reward enough.
Go to hell........I mean go to Rochester.
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Go to hell........I mean go to Rochester.
:mauslaff: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:
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The pope just ruined another good weekend. Why even bother if you can't get whiskey bent and hell bound. It just ain't the same.
Alos remind me to see my futures in Brimstone stock.
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Lets see. Rome is located at 41.9028° N, 12.4964° E... Based on the target zone that is at the high end of the North Latitude range for a possible hit. If it does strike the Vatican..... I think we could chalk it up as an act of God!
I know, right? Not impossible, just highly improbable... exactly the kind of "mysterious way" He seems to prefer doing his work in...
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I know, right? Not impossible, just highly improbable... exactly the kind of "mysterious way" He seems to prefer doing his work in...
Yep. Not to mention it would be a Hell of a way to go. :smokin:
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I'll say only that there are far too many Protestants who would agree with him.
@mountaineer
And none of them agrees with Jesus.
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What disturbs me on this is why does the Pope of the Church associate with a known atheist.
The Bible speaks ill of those who make choices to do that.
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14
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What disturbs me on this is why does the Pope of the Church associate with a known atheist.
The Bible speaks ill of those who make choices to do that.
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14
That's only one of several disturbing things.
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That's only one of several disturbing things.
Mrs. Liberty, a lifelong Catholic, tells me the question, "Is the Pope Catholic?" can no longer be answered in the affirmative.
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What disturbs me on this is why does the Pope of the Church associate with a known atheist.
He meets with and praises Muslims all the time and they are torturing, raping, murdering, and enslaving Christians all over the world. Meeting with an atheist is a notch down from his normal behavior.
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Yep. Not to mention it would be a Hell of a way to go. :smokin:
Good job swinging the conversation back on topic! 888high58888
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The Hebrew word for hell is ×’Öµ×™×”Ö´× ×•Ö¹× (gehenom). The Hebrew word for a grave is קבר (kevar).
Sheol apparently is 'the underworld' which could be translated to hell, but more of the Greek version of hell.
I was always taught Jews don't believe in Heck, but I personally do.
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I was always taught Jews don't believe in Heck, but I personally do.
@Freya, I'm not sure where that came from because there are references in the Torah.
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@Freya, I'm not sure where that came from because there are references in the Torah.
Like I said, I don't know either.
Sometimes though I think hell is Earth. Sorry, going through a bad patch. I mean no disrespect to anyone.
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Like I said, I don't know either.
Sometimes though I think hell is Earth. Sorry, going through a bad patch. I mean no disrespect to anyone.
Apparently I'm insensitive as heck or something, because I didn't see any disrespect, dearest....
I want nothing but the best for you, and I hope things get better for you soon... :0001:
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Like I said, I don't know either.
Sometimes though I think hell is Earth. Sorry, going through a bad patch. I mean no disrespect to anyone.
It does seem that way sometimes. Other times, not at all. I hope things improve for you. No, I hope you improve things. ^-^
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@Freya, I'm not sure where that came from because there are references in the Torah.
Of course. Satan has a whole argument with God. - Job
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It does seem that way sometimes. Other times, not at all. I hope things improve for you. No, I hope you improve things. ^-^
It's the holidays
It's stressing the whole family out. We are all fighting with each other. No biggie.
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Well since there is no hell, did Pope Frank have any new edicts on the pill?
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Didn't you hear the Pontiff? There is no Catholic faith anymore. It's an arm of the social justice movement now.
Good, now there's no reason not to tax the Church.
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The pope never met my ex wife.
"I was MARRIED for TWO ........... YEARS! Hell would be like Club Med!"
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhiWwa69YBg#)
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Good, now there's no reason not to tax the Church.
Great idea except they aren't filling the pews like they used to and they had a spot of legal bother a few years back so there may not be too much cash to tax. Then again, Pope Frank may move the Vatican to the US because of Trumps pro business tax cuts, so we may get a boost in the choir boy industry that has been hit hard.
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Great idea except they aren't filling the pews like they used to and they had a spot of legal bother a few years back so there may not be too much cash to tax. Then again, Pope Frank may move the Vatican to the US because of Trumps pro business tax cuts, so we may get a boost in the choir boy industry that has been hit hard.
Hitting on choir boys?
Where have I heard that before...
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I was debating about posting this since it is headline news on Drudge.....fair warning if this turns into an attack on the Catholic faith I will shut it down.
I hope you don't see this as an attack, but my mother a devout old school Catholic doesn't consider comrade Francis............Catholic :shrug: We just had that discussion this afternoon.
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I hope you don't see this as an attack, but my mother a devout old school Catholic doesn't consider comrade Francis............Catholic :shrug: We just had that discussion this afternoon.
You are not alone in that opinion....
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I hope you don't see this as an attack, but my mother a devout old school Catholic doesn't consider comrade Francis............Catholic :shrug: We just had that discussion this afternoon.
This pope is destroying the Church.
The Cardinals will have to step in soon to preserve it so they can preserve their right to be future Popes.
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The pope never met my ex wife.
Also, he's clearly never been to Camden, New Jersey.
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(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/I9y_7JVCOxNCO9XfttVFAg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz01MzM-/https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oIwEKgktLuc/maxresdefault.jpg.cf.jpg)
Just another pork barrel infrastructure project, leading to nowhere.
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Just another pork barrel infrastructure project, leading to nowhere.
"Highway to Hell," "Hell's Bells," "Hell Ain't a Bad Place to Be," "Hell or High Water" -- if there was ever one band that could go down to Hell, drink Satan under the table, crawl back out and write a song about it, it’s AC/DC. But thinking Axl Rose would be a great choice as the bands new lead singer.... Hell NO
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(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/I9y_7JVCOxNCO9XfttVFAg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz01MzM-/https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oIwEKgktLuc/maxresdefault.jpg.cf.jpg)
Just another pork barrel infrastructure project, leading to nowhere.
It says something about the state of the world that there's a highway to Hell, but just a stairway to Heaven.....
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It says something about the state of the world that there's a highway to Hell, but just a stairway to Heaven.....
If you want to go to heaven you gotta raise a little Hell.
-OMD
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Go to hell........I mean go to Rochester.
At least Hell never freezes over.
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At least Hell never freezes over.
888high58888
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(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/190375041_e993ff8e78_m.jpg)
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Go to hell........I mean go to Rochester.
@Frank Cannon
Wadda you got against me? Hell is warmer,and generally speaking,I don't play well with yankees or other types of communists.
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@mountaineer
And none of them agrees with Jesus.
@musiclady
How do you know? Do you go to a carnival and get a gypsy to talk with the dead for you?
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What disturbs me on this is why does the Pope of the Church associate with a known atheist.
Maybe he's trying to learn something?
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He meets with and praises Muslims all the time and they are torturing, raping, murdering, and enslaving Christians all over the world. Meeting with an atheist is a notch down from his normal behavior.
@240B
So,you are saying that Muslims are more moral than atheists?
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@240B
So,you are saying that Muslims are more moral than atheists?
@sneakypete
You're right. I screwed that up. I got it backwards. I was trying to say that he was calming down, becoming more rational. But it doesn't read that way. It is ambiguous.
Meeting with an atheist is a step up from his usual associates.
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@sneakypete
You're right.
@240B
What does that mean? Nobody has ever told me that before. You trying to start something?
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@240B
What does that mean? Nobody has ever told me that before. You trying to start something?
Somebody told me once that I was wrong, but it turned out not to be correct. ^-^
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Somebody told me once that I was wrong, but it turned out not to be correct. ^-^
I'd rather be wrong than right with you. :smokin:
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I'd rather be wrong than right with you. :smokin:
That's because you already know how cock-eyed I am. :cool:
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Somebody told me once that I was wrong, but it turned out not to be correct. ^-^
Since I am a wonderfully humble guy, I will cheerfully admit that I personally made a mistake on one occasion:
It was many, many years ago. I thought that I had made an error, but it turned out that I hadn't.
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Alright guys...come on. It just depends on how read the scale.
If you are a level 10 leftist radical and you become a level 5 leftist radical that is a good thing. You have calmed down. Measured by the radical. You have stepped down your radicalism.
However, if you are associating with level 10 scumbags, and you start associating with level 5 scumbags then that is a step up in behavior. Measured by the level of scumbags you associate with...I think...or something...my head hurts..
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Alright guys...come on. It just depends on how read the scale.
If you are a level 10 leftist radical and you become a level 5 leftist radical that is a good thing. You have calmed down. Measured by the radical. You have stepped down your radicalism.
However, if you are associating with level 10 scumbags, and you start associating with level 5 scumbags then that is a step up in behavior. Measured by the level of scumbags you associate with...I think...or something...my head hurts..
That makes perfect sense to me......
Should I seek help?? :pondering:
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Since I am a wonderfully humble guy, I will cheerfully admit that I personally made a mistake on one occasion:
It was many, many years ago. I thought that I had made an error, but it turned out that I hadn't.
888high58888
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That makes perfect sense to me......
Should I seek help?? :pondering:
I think we all have to seek help after that.... :cool: :smokin:
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I think we all have to seek help after that.... :cool: :smokin:
That's a hell of thing to say...
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Wingnut:
"Is the Pope Catholic?"
Fishrrman:
Not this one.
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That's a hell of thing to say...
Reminds me...how's your move to hell coming along?
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I think we all have to seek help after that.... :cool: :smokin:
:beer:
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I think we all have to seek help after that.... :cool: :smokin:
I going to have a glass of wine. Maybe it will help.
In vino veritas.
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I have heard a very small minority of Christians argue the point that there was no He'll, but this is the first I heard anyone a leader of a Church make such a statement if he truly said that. To not believe in Hell, you would also have to deny the existence of Satanwhich the Bilble clearly states that He'll was made for Satan, where at the judgment he would be cast.
Jesus himself mentioned He'll in Matthew 25:31-43 and clearly points out that at the judgment the people will be separated, sheep from goats, and the goats will spend eternity in Hell that was made for Satan and his angels.
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Reminds me...how's your move to hell coming along?
I'm not dead yet...
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The Vatican has denied that Pope Francis told a well-known Italian journalist that "there is no hell".
The quote came in an article in Italy's La Repubblica daily. But the Vatican said "no quotations" in the article "should be considered as a faithful transcription" of the Pope's words.
The Vatican said the article was based on a private meeting the Pope had with the daily's founder, Eugenio Scalfari.
Catholic Church doctrine affirms the existence of hell and its eternity.
The souls of sinners descend into hell, where they suffer "eternal fire", the Catholic catechism states.
However, Cardinal Vincent Nichols, the most senior Catholic in England and Wales, said "there's nowhere in Catholic teaching that actually says any one person is in hell".
He told the BBC that the Pope was apparently exploring "the imagery of hell - fire and brimstone and all of that".
"That's never been part of Catholic teaching, it's been part of Catholic iconography, part of Christian iconography," he said.
For some reason I was thinking about this in my sleep last night. And it came to me that although I completely understand the erudite intellectual nature of his message, nonetheless this Pope is changing the fundamental bastions of Christianity as it has been since the beginning. This Pope is Pope Obama. He is fundamentally transforming thousands of years of Catholic thoughts and traditions. And he is doing it right before Easter too?
Once he starts stuttering, uh, uh, uh, now let me be clear. Those bitter clingers are evil. Then I will know for sure that he has truly become Pope Obama completely.
Fair Disclosure: Although I have dated Catholic women and have attended Catholic services, I am not Catholic. I know about Catholicism loosely, and have some experience with, and respect for, those traditions, but that is all. I didn't want to give anyone the wrong impression of me. As you may have guessed, I am worldly and religious studies are a hobby of mine.
But if I was a Catholic, I'd be fantastic at it. Speaking Hebrew, some Latin, some German, no Greek though. LOL!
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I going to have a glass of wine. Maybe it will help.
In vino veritas.
It couldn't hurt :shrug:
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It couldn't hurt :shrug:
It didn't. However, it did not bring about the revelations that I was hoping for.
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It didn't. However, it did not bring about the revelations that I was hoping for.
Better luck next time.
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I'm not dead yet...
That is what all the living dead says.
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Better luck next time.
0005
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0005
Try, try again.
***wine
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Try, try again.
***wine
Nobody like a quitter.
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Nobody like a quitter.
I thought they where a dime a dozen?
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Satanas dixit quod primum est ad populum nolite credere quae exixist.
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I have heard a very small minority of Christians argue the point that there was no He'll, but this is the first I heard anyone a leader of a Church make such a statement if he truly said that. To not believe in Hell, you would also have to deny the existence of Satanwhich the Bilble clearly states that He'll was made for Satan, where at the judgment he would be cast.
Jesus himself mentioned He'll in Matthew 25:31-43 and clearly points out that at the judgment the people will be separated, sheep from goats, and the goats will spend eternity in Hell that was made for Satan and his angels.
I generally agree with you, except that I don't accept the profession of faith of any Christian who denies the existence of hell. In short, I don't believe that even a "very small minority of Christians" have argued that there is no hell. My point here is that the professing Church is loaded with tares that will be burned.
I'm afraid that even Ben Carson, whom I do generally like, is going to be horribly surprised on Judgment Day.
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Satanas dixit quod primum est ad populum nolite credere quae exixist.
And that makes this Pope evil. Very evil.
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I generally agree with you, except that I don't accept the profession of faith of any Christian who denies the existence of hell. In short, I don't believe that even a "very small minority of Christians" have argued that there is no hell. My point here is that the professing Church is loaded with tares that will be burned.
I'm afraid that even Ben Carson, whom I do generally like, is going to be horribly surprised on Judgment Day.
I think we will all be somewhat surprised on Judgement Day. Some more than others.
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I think we will all be somewhat surprised on Judgement Day. Some more than others.
@Sanguine
No,you will be dead and never know it doesn't happen.
Like it or not,death is forever.
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@Sanguine
No,you will be dead and never know it doesn't happen.
Like it or not,death is forever.
May God bless you, Pete.