The Briefing Room
General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => Topic started by: mirraflake on December 07, 2017, 06:23:58 pm
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5155691/Controversial-study-links-DNA-gay.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5155691/Controversial-study-links-DNA-gay.html)
Is being gay in your DNA? Homosexual men share two gene variants that suggest they are born with their sexual preference, claims controversial study
Experts surveyed the sexual orientation of 1,077 gay and 1,231 straight men
Genome-wide association study looked for variations in DNA linked to sexuality
They found two regions with variants most strongly associated with sexuality
These were located on chromosomes 13 and 14 near genes that may be relevant to the development of sexual orientation
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I truly believe some gay men are born that way, some are from abuse and environment and just plain horndogs also.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5155691/Controversial-study-links-DNA-gay.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5155691/Controversial-study-links-DNA-gay.html)
Is being gay in your DNA? Homosexual men share two gene variants that suggest they are born with their sexual preference, claims controversial study
Experts surveyed the sexual orientation of 1,077 gay and 1,231 straight men
Genome-wide association study looked for variations in DNA linked to sexuality
They found two regions with variants most strongly associated with sexuality
These were located on chromosomes 13 and 14 near genes that may be relevant to the development of sexual orientation
uh huh yeah right
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Where's that 'Jeez Not This S*** Again' pic?
Gays got to have their genetic legitimization for what they do.
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uh huh yeah right
The very first time you ate ice cream you found out you liked chocolate over vanilla. Why is that? Why do you like chocolate over vanilla?
People are born with may things that influence their wants.
Chinese are finding through actual scientific research facial characteristics lead to different personality types or certain behaviors. We are also finding out child molestors and murderers have brains that are different from normal people.
We no longer live in the Middle Ages.
@driftdiver
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I truly believe some gay men are born that way, some are from abuse and environment and just plain horndogs also.
That's probably where the truth lies.
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DNA science is moving very fast. It is used to convict or exonerate murderers.
It is also used for paternity, for medicine research and treatment, and for family genealogy connections.
My own genealogy (paper family tree) and DNA testing agree completely.
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I truly believe some gay men are born that way
Some. But it's a tiny percentage.
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The very first time you ate ice cream you found out you liked chocolate over vanilla. Why is that? Why do you like chocolate over vanilla?
People are born with may things that influence their wants.
Chinese are finding through actual scientific research facial characteristics lead to different personality types or certain behaviors. We are also finding out child molestors and murderers have brains that are different from normal people.
We no longer live in the Middle Ages.
@driftdiver
Does the difference cause the behavior or does the behavior cause the difference?
Depends on the issue. To say that all gay people are gay because of a 2 genes is a huge stretch and really really poor science.
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Some. But it's a tiny percentage.
How do you know that?
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How do you know that?
@Oceander
Prove its not.
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To say that all gay people are gay because of a 2 genes is a huge stretch and really really poor science.
Epilepsy (etc) runs in some families over less than 2 genes.
@driftdiver
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@Oceander
Prove its not.
I’m not the one who made the knowledge claim, so I’m not the one who has to prove anything.
Prove the knowledge claim, or else STFU and see where the science takes us.
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I’m not the one who made the knowledge claim, so I’m not the one who has to prove anything.
Prove the knowledge claim, or else STFU and see where the science takes us.
@Oceander
The thread is about someone saying 2 genes cause gayness.
SO GFY with a Gene
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Epilepsy (etc) runs in some families over less than 2 genes.
@driftdiver
@mirraflake
So you're saying being gay is a disease?
If being gay is the result of these 2 genes it should be easy to prove. Everyone anywhere who has engaged in gay behavior should have this combination. OR as the article says they found some of the gay people had this combination, which means some didn't. which means its all hype.
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Who would purposely choose to be homosexual? I don’t buy that.
Genes determine so much of our physical and mental traits that it’s hard to dismiss evidence suggesting a DNA link to homosexuality.
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Who would purposely choose to be homosexual? I don’t buy that.
Genes determine so much of our physical and mental traits that it’s hard to dismiss evidence suggesting a DNA link to homosexuality.
That is logical, and has the ring of truth.
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Who would purposely choose to be homosexual? I don’t buy that
Especially when this is out there
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Who would purposely choose to be homosexual? I don’t buy that.
Genes determine so much of our physical and mental traits that it’s hard to dismiss evidence suggesting a DNA link to homosexuality.
@aligncare
People who were abused? People with low self esteem who are seduced by other gay people? People who are convinced by society that its cool to be gay? People who have other mental health issues and can't get a date with the opposite sex? People who decide it feels good so they must be gay? People who get drunk and don't care who they have sex with? People who are just promiscuous and don't care who they sleep with?
A whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with these two genes.
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A new field in genetics is "Epigenetics," and it goes beyond just genes and chromosomes.
There are scientific journal articles, and videos on YouTube. An entity called "CARTA," under the auspices of UC San Diego, deals with the subject for instance.
They are NOT studying homosexuality. They ARE studying human genetics, migrations, various aspects of populations down through the ages.
It is a big topic. Most people will not even start to study it. It is easier to have uninformed opinions that way.
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@aligncare
People who were abused? People with low self esteem who are seduced by other gay people? People who are convinced by society that its cool to be gay? People who have other mental health issues and can't get a date with the opposite sex? People who decide it feels good so they must be gay? People who get drunk and don't care who they have sex with? People who are just promiscuous and don't care who they sleep with?
A whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with these two genes.
I know 3 gay men well. One is a relative, one is my SIL brother and one is a friend. None were abused, had low self esteem etc. and they are all now in their 50's or older and were gay way before it was cool.
The woman in my hometown who turned out to be lesbian has the body and face of a man. I blame a chemical mixup during gestation on that one. If I showed you her HS grad photo I would bet you a $1000 if you could tell me if she was a female.
@driftdiver
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I know 3 gay men well. One is a relative, one is my SIL brother and one is a friend. None were abused, had low self esteem etc. and they are all now in their 50's or older and were gay way before it was cool.
The woman in my hometown who turned out to be lesbian has the body and face of a man. I blame a chemical mixup during gestation on that one. If I showed you her HS grad photo I would bet you a $1000 if you could tell me if she was a female.
@driftdiver
@mirraflake
Well there ya go, a sample of 3 means its genetic. no need for further discussion or scientific research
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@mirraflake
So you're saying being gay is a disease?
If being gay is the result of these 2 genes it should be easy to prove. Everyone anywhere who has engaged in gay behavior should have this combination. OR as the article says they found some of the gay people had this combination, which means some didn't. which means its all hype.
Nope. Epilepsy is a medical condition, not a disease. and I never did say 100% of gays had this gene disorder. Go back and read what I wrote.
@driftdiver
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@mirraflake
Well there ya go, a sample of 3 means its genetic. no need for further discussion or scientific research
Well I thought you said being gay was due to abuse, attention, environment, cool factor, horniness? So where do these 3 fit?
@driftdiver
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Well I thought you said being gay was due to abuse, attention, environment, cool factor, horniness? So where do these 3 fit?
@driftdiver
@mirraflake
Could be any of the above and you just don't know the truth. Its very common for abuse victims to hide their history.
I also have a friend that was a lesbian. She looked very masculine. Her hair, clothes and actions were more like a man. She was also very unhappy and one day decided to change her life. she met a man and ended up married. guess what, now she doesn't look masculine and she has credited my friendship as being a factor in her choosing to change.
"Oh its genetics" is just another snowflake excuse so people don't have to take responsibility for their behavior. Are there genetic abnormalities, sure there are but not to the extent you want to believe to make yourself feel better,
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Nope. Epilepsy is a medical condition, not a disease. and I never did say 100% of gays had this gene disorder. Go back and read what I wrote.
@driftdiver
@mirraflake
So being gay is a medical condition now?
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Who would purposely choose to be homosexual? I don’t buy that.
Genes determine so much of our physical and mental traits that it’s hard to dismiss evidence suggesting a DNA link to homosexuality.
I'm starting to wonder about all of the soy in so many food products and the plastic those products are packaged in.
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@mirraflake
Could be any of the above and you just don't know the truth. Its very common for abuse victims to hide their history.
I also have a friend that was a lesbian. She looked very masculine. Her hair, clothes and actions were more like a man. She was also very unhappy and one day decided to change her life. she met a man and ended up married. guess what, now she doesn't look masculine and she has credited my friendship as being a factor in her choosing to change.
"Oh its genetics" is just another snowflake excuse so people don't have to take responsibility for their behavior. Are there genetic abnormalities, sure there are but not to the extent you want to believe to make yourself feel better,
Nope on the first comment. My SIL brother came from a great home, great relationship with both parents, strong Christian family. I knew he was gay when i first met him mid 80's way before he came out.
Your lesbian example is a lipstick lesbian. The lesbian I know has a linebackers body and face to match. No amount of time or money spent at a Macey Glamour Shots would make her look anything like a female...more like a female in male drag..
Time for you to adopt the science of the 21st century.
@driftdiver
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Who would purposely choose to be homosexual? I don’t buy that.
Genes determine so much of our physical and mental traits that it’s hard to dismiss evidence suggesting a DNA link to homosexuality.
There are people who choose to follow a homosexual life and then choose to change to heterosexual. Or vise versa.
I suspect there is both a portion of the population with a difference in genetics, and a portion that choose. Those choosing may a lesser but but partial genetic difference in comparison.
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@mirraflake
So being gay is a medical condition now?
Could be with many. Just as I mentioned before, murderers and violent people have a different brain structure and particular brain parts or areas are not developed when compared to normal people.
@driftdiver
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There are people who choose to follow a homosexual life and then choose to change to heterosexual. Or vise versa.
I suspect there is both a portion of the population with a difference in genetics, and a portion that choose. Those choosing may a lesser but but partial genetic difference in comparison.
I agree, though I really don't think many chose the homosexual life if they are attracted to women. Someone was arguing on another thread that men just can't help themselves around women.
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https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/opinions/two-spirits-one-heart-five-genders/
Two Spirits, One Heart, Five Genders
For European settlers the Original Peoples way of life was perplexing, including the the Two Spirits tradition
Duane Brayboy • September 7, 2017
“The New World.†This romanticized term inspired legions of Europeans to race to the places we live in search of freedoms from oppressive regimes or treasures that would be claimed in the name of some European nation.
Those who arrived in the Native American Garden of Eden had never seen a land so uncorrupted. The Europeans saw new geography, new plants, new animals, but the most perplexing curiosity to these people were the Original Peoples and our ways of life. Of all of the foreign life ways Indians held, one of the first the Europeans targeted for elimination was the Two Spirit tradition among Native American cultures. At the point of contact, all Native American societies acknowledged three to five gender roles: Female, male, Two Spirit female, Two Spirit male and transgendered. LGBT Native Americans wanting to be identified within their respective tribes and not grouped with other races officially adopted the term “Two Spirit†from the Ojibwe language in Winnipeg, Manitoba, 1989. Each tribe has their own specific term, but there was a need for a universal term that the general population could understand. The Navajo refer to Two Spirits as Nádleehà (one who is transformed), among the Lakota is Winkté (indicative of a male who has a compulsion to behave as a female), Niizh Manidoowag (two spirit) in Ojibwe, Hemaneh (half man, half woman) in Cheyenne, to name a few. As the purpose of “Two Spirit†is to be used as a universal term in the English language, it is not always translatable with the same meaning in Native languages. For example, in the Iroquois Cherokee language, there is no way to translate the term, but the Cherokee do have gender variance terms for “women who feel like men†and vice versa.
snip
This article describes "The People" of North America, before contact with Europeans.
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@Oceander
The thread is about someone saying 2 genes cause gayness.
SO GFY with a Gene
Thanks for proving my point.
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I'm starting to wonder about all of the soy in so many food products and the plastic those products are packaged in.
I hear ya. The Romans were big on drinking soy milk out of plastic jugs.
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I hear ya. The Romans were big on drinking soy milk out of plastic jugs.
Funny how 1.7% of the population expect to be called normal and to have everyone dance to their tune.
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I agree, though I really don't think many chose the homosexual life if they are attracted to women. Someone was arguing on another thread that men just can't help themselves around women.
Well, apparently men can't help themselves around men either.
At least according to men. ^-^
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I wonder how that 'queer gene' got passed along if no queer parents?
Could it be that -gasp- a queer person was not queer?
There goes the research.
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Yawn, get back to me when they can replicate the test with accuracy. Otherwise this is just like the other non-fact pseudoscience that has popped up a half dozen times the past 15 years. None of which you hear of again except in gay glory publications. Like this article says, if it wasn't gay related, it wouldn't even be published.
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I wonder how that 'queer gene' got passed along if no queer parents?
Could it be that -gasp- a queer person was not queer?
There goes the research.
Please read up on some very basic genetic information before you make another comment like that. SMH
@IsailedawayfromFR
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Please read up on some very basic genetic information before you make another comment like that. SMH
@IsailedawayfromFR
Not an answer at all.
Here's a better one from the article:
The study has been described as 'weak' by independent scientists, and the study's authors admit the link is 'speculative'.
In two words: Bad Science
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Not an answer at all.
Here's a better one from the article:
The study has been described as 'weak' by independent scientists, and the study's authors admit the link is 'speculative'.
In two words: Bad Science
I will answer your question if my parents are not gay why is their children gay?
Hint recessive genes for one. There are numerous ways genes skip generations.
I never said genes are the entire reason people are gay. As mentioned before there is epigentics and the one issue I believe most is a chemical imbalance during gestation.
I mentioned epilespy before. There are numerous ways you can get epilepsy-genetic, injury, environment (chemicals-even strobe lights under certain conditions).
@IsailedawayfromFR
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Please read up on some very basic genetic information before you make another comment like that. SMH
@IsailedawayfromFR
I opened the door on DNA via genealogy. Looking further into it how they determine locations of origin.
I learned it is a subject on which we have barely opened the door. Much hope is held now, for medical treatments from knowledge of genetics, DNA, genes, chromosomes, single nucleoid polymorphisms (SNPs) etc.
Then to Epigenetics, by which environmental factors change DNA presentations.
Unless a person has time, intelligence, interest and an open mind it isn't likely they will remain interested very far into the subject.
Especially if they lack the open-mindedness to reverse preconceived notions.
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Yawn, get back to me when they can replicate the test with accuracy. Otherwise this is just like the other non-fact pseudoscience that has popped up a half dozen times the past 15 years. None of which you hear of again except in gay glory publications. Like this article says, if it wasn't gay related, it wouldn't even be published.
They keep trying, don't they?
The entire premise of the left is that homosexuality is not a choice. So their "science" is to keep trying to prove what they already believe.
Which isn't actually science at all.
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I wonder how that 'queer gene' got passed along if no queer parents?
Could it be that -gasp- a queer person was not queer?
There goes the research.
How could two brown-eyed parents have blue-eyed children?
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The entire premise of the left is that homosexuality is not a choice.
Choice for some, not a choice for most.
As I mentioned before some people like chocolate and some prefer vanilla ice cream. I'm sure the ones who like vanilla were not abused by the chocolate ice cream. You may hate tomato soup while your siblings love it..why is that?
Everyone has likes or attraction to other people, objects, hobbies they have no idea where the interest came about. It was always there.
@musiclady
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Choice for some, not a choice for most.
As I mentioned before some people like chocolate and some prefer vanilla ice cream. I'm sure the ones who like vanilla were not abused by the chocolate ice cream. You may hate tomato soup while your siblings love it..why is that?
Everyone has likes or attraction to other people, objects, hobbies they have no idea where the interest came about. It was always there.
@musiclady
@mirraflake
You have that backwards. It's a choice for most.
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I hear ya. The Romans were big on drinking soy milk out of plastic jugs.
Yep. And look what happened to that civilization 22222frying pan
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Why would a man, who as several of you point out have high sex drives and are generally very attracted to women, make a choice to somehow overcome their drives and attractions and instead chose to be attracted to another man? Just doesn't make any sense. None.
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Ima lesbian trapped in a man's body.
I think epigenetics plays a big part in this controversy.
Are animals homosexual?
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Ima lesbian trapped in a man's body.
I think epigenetics plays a big part in this controversy.
Are animals homosexual?
Not really. Some do display some "homosexual" behaviors, but not consistently. For instance, cows may mount each other, but it appears to be an attempt to stimulate ovulation in preparation for breeding.
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Ima lesbian trapped in a man's body.
I think epigenetics plays a big part in this controversy.
Are animals homosexual?
We rescued our English mastiff who was intact at the time and our vet recommended against neutering. A new study indicates that specific prolific cancers, severe allergies, and hip displasia are more likely the result of neuter and spay, not poor breeding policies.
Any hoo, we let him run around the dog park behind my in-laws' place when we visit but the rules state that the dog must be neutered. It's not a law mind you, but merely a rule enforced by people taking pictures of your dog and posting on facebook that an intact dog was at the park. You know, millennial public shaming. I took to facebook and defended Goliath's honor stating that he identifies as a spayed female and all the haters needed to stop. Well, they didn't know what to do! If they called bullshit then they would be in a precarious situation with the human version of perversion.
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Why would a man, who as several of you point out have high sex drives and are generally very attracted to women, make a choice to somehow overcome their drives and attractions and instead chose to be attracted to another man? Just doesn't make any sense. None.
Abuse. Neglect. Abandonment. Rape by a man. Any number of issues might cause the removal of what is natural.
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Abuse. Neglect. Abandonment. Rape by a man. Any number of issues might cause the removal of what is natural.
That might be true for some, but many have no history of abuse.
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They found two regions with multiple genetic variants most strongly associated with sexuality.
Translation: more gay men had a certain genetic variation than straight men, and the variance was not likely random. It means that some bit of homosexuality can be explained by genetics, but not all. Based on what is now known, homosexuality is thought to be around 20 percent genetic, 80 percent learned predisposition. As time goes on, the 20 percent keeps going up, and the 80 percent keeps going down. I seriously doubt science will ever declare gayness to be 100 percent genetic, although it likely is in some people. For most, homosexuality is "learned." It comes about as a result of cultural and subcultural influences, group dynamics, personality, motivation, attitudes and a whole host of other things that influence all of our behaviors.
Most things like homosexuality start out as a fixation. The fixation becomes a compulsion, and then the compulsion becomes an addiction. Alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling addiction, and shopping addictions all come from this pattern. So does transgenderism, which is undoubtedly a learned predisposition. Homosexuality is a bit more of a grey area, although I would compare it to alcoholism in the sense that the combination of learning and genetics can increase someone's likelihood of taking up either behavior.
Fixations can come from any number of sources, including mass media. The more mass media glorifies a particular thing (transgeenders and gays, for example) the more people will become fixated with that thing, and the rest is a numbers game; as we have seen in recent years.
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That might be true for some, but many have no history of abuse.
That we know of.
And what about abandonment or neglect? Absent fathers? Parents who think that little boys who like pink are gay so steer them that way? Something is wrong. It is not the way they are born.
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That we know of.
And what about abandonment or neglect? Absent fathers? Parents who think that little boys who like pink are gay so steer them that way? Something is wrong. It is not the way they are born.
Why would you not consider that it may be partially genetic?
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Sanguine observes:
"Why would a man, who as several of you point out have high sex drives and are generally very attracted to women, make a choice to somehow overcome their drives and attractions and instead chose to be attracted to another man? Just doesn't make any sense. None."
My thoughts on the subject, posted here (if you don't mind dirtying your hands by going there):
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2846164/posts?page=67#67 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2846164/posts?page=67#67)
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Why would a man, who as several of you point out have high sex drives and are generally very attracted to women, make a choice to somehow overcome their drives and attractions and instead chose to be attracted to another man? Just doesn't make any sense. None.
And yet we have history of many that will switch back and forth. If it doesn't make any senses at all, is that a sign of a disorder?
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And yet we have history of many that will switch back and forth. If it doesn't make any senses at all, is that a sign of a disorder?
And, even more who don't. I don't know the answer. I'm just saying it's a bit more complex that some might make it out to be.
And, for the record, I accept that God says don't do it.
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Do we have anybody with degrees in Biology?
Do we have anybody that has studied DNA, genetics, from any standpoint?
--genealogy
--medical research and treatments
--paternity
--national/regional origins
--criminology
--other
Anybody know what Haplogroups and Haplotypes are? SNPs?
Y-DNA and mt-DNA and autosomal DNA. Epigenetics?
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Well, in a couple of generations we'll have proof one way or the other. Since taking a wife as cover is no longer needed, homosexuality have been normalized throughout the Western world, if it's genetic, with homosexuals no longer pushed into mating with women, the incidence rate should decline. If it's a choice, having been normalized and "celebrated" by the left, the incidence rate should increase.
Of course, I've never found the "born that way" argument very interesting. I suspect there are genetic markers that correspond to having an inborn besetting temptation to every sin in the catalogue of sins. Psychopathy seems to be inborn, and no one argues that the means the behavior of psychopaths is not morally objectionable, or that laws against fraud, murder, lying under oath, and all manner of other things psychopaths are prone to should be abolished because the condition has a genetic basis.
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Well, in a couple of generations we'll have proof one way or the other.
We don't have that long. Historically, acceptance of homosexuality (and other deviant behavior like-in-kind) is the death rattle of a society.
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We don't have that long. Historically, acceptance of homosexuality (and other deviant behavior like-in-kind) is the death rattle of a society.
I don't know about that. The French have been around for centuries.
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I don't know about that. The French have been around for centuries.
And they are even now, talking about splitting their country to avoid war with Islam.
You're making my point.
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And, even more who don't. I don't know the answer. I'm just saying it's a bit more complex that some might make it out to be.
Hence the term of choice 'queer'.
Even the ravings of Islam recognize that.
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And they are even now, talking about splitting their country to avoid war with Islam.
You're making my point.
Not really. Now you are arguing that unrestrained immigration destroys a country, not faggotry. Now maybe you can argue that faggotry encourages the want for unrestrained immigration, which in turn destroys a country.
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Abuse. Neglect. Abandonment. Rape by a man. Any number of issues might cause the removal of what is natural.
But for most, they're born that way. And just as capable of finding love and happiness with a partner.
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But for most, they're born that way. And just as capable as you and I]of finding love and happiness with a partner.
You sound like you have first hand knowledge.
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You sound like you have first hand knowledge.
I do. Several close family members. So sod off with your hate.
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I do. Several close family members. So sod off with your hate.
Several in the family are gay yet they make up about 1% of the population. Guess you live in the Castro district.
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Repressive societies (radical Islam) kill members discovered to be homosexual. Homosexuality in these traditions can be a death sentence.
Yet some folks here insist homosexuality is learned behavior? In a repressed society where homosexuality is not only not accepted nor celebrated but rather is sought to be violently extinguished. And yet homosexuality still exists in Islam.
I’m still not buying that it’s an individual choice, when that choice could result in execution by being thrown off rooftops. One must be genetically predisposed to risk engagement in that behavior.
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Repressive societies (radical Islam) kill members discovered to be homosexual. Homosexuality in these traditions can be a death sentence.
And historically it hasn't been much easier in so-called enlightened societies. Many Christians condemn homosexuals - even those who live monogamously with a partner - as perverts and abominations. Up until recently, homosexual behavior was an accepted excuse for discrimination, in housing, in employment, in legal rights of all kinds.
Of course it isn't a choice. For most, it's no more a choice than race or gender. Gay folks have exactly the same choices as straight folks - whether to live a moral and responsible life, of monogamy and faithful behavior, or of promiscuity and dissipation.
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Who would purposely choose to be homosexual? I don’t buy that.
Genes determine so much of our physical and mental traits that it’s hard to dismiss evidence suggesting a DNA link to homosexuality.
Depends on the perks and how willing someone is to do what it takes to get them. When my niece was attending Western Michigan University she told me about the LUGs (Lesbian until graduation). Western and many other schools have official policies giving special treatment to oppressed groups.
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Repressive societies (radical Islam) kill members discovered to be homosexual. Homosexuality in these traditions can be a death sentence.
Yet some folks here insist homosexuality is learned behavior? In a repressed society where homosexuality is not only not accepted nor celebrated but rather is sought to be violently extinguished. And yet homosexuality still exists in Islam.
I’m still not buying that it’s an individual choice, when that choice could result in execution by being thrown off rooftops. One must be genetically predisposed to risk engagement in that behavior.
@aligncare
A misnomer for sure. In those cultures its only homosexual to receive and not be the guy on top. Their history of using small boys as sex slaves is well known and very common among the radicals. Not to mention people like ISIS were using rape as a recruiting method. They'd video tape themselves raping young men and then use the video as blackmail to get them to join. if it were as clear cut as you say neither of this would exist.
History and a thinking mind shows its about 98% choice aka a chosen behavior. There are a few who are born with a serious issue but that is the exception. If a genetic cause did exist it certainly would have been found and the homosexual community wouldn't be relying on junk science like this particular study.
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I’m still not buying that it’s an individual choice, when that choice could result in execution by being thrown off rooftops. One must be genetically predisposed to risk engagement in that behavior.
Because no individual ever choose to participate in destructive behavior?
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And historically it hasn't been much easier in so-called enlightened societies. Many Christians condemn homosexuals - even those who live monogamously with a partner - as perverts and abominations. Up until recently, homosexual behavior was an accepted excuse for discrimination, in housing, in employment, in legal rights of all kinds.
Of course it isn't a choice. For most, it's no more a choice than race or gender. Gay folks have exactly the same choices as straight folks - whether to live a moral and responsible life, of monogamy and faithful behavior, or of promiscuity and dissipation.
@Jazzhead
Wow you hit every talking point there, gold star & a smiley face
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Because no individual ever choose to participate in destructive behavior?
Only the mentally ill get some slack on that.
My favorite co-worker is a recovering heroin/meth addict. She doesn't blame anyone else for her multiple stints in jail or the general disaster her life is.
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@Jazzhead
Wow you hit every talking point there, gold star & a smiley face
Got something against monogamy and faithful behavior?
All I'm trying to say is that everyone deserves to be praised or condemned in accordance with their actions as individuals. What frosts me about the attitudes of (some) Christians is that good folks get labeled "abominations" just because of an aspect of their being they cannot control. One doesn't choose whether to be gay or straight - that's up to God. What's up to us is what we choose to make of ourselves, and whether we choose to live by moral precepts.
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There is no worse thing possible for LGBT* than a test that can prove they are gay. That opens them to the possibility of gay men failing the test thereby proving it is a chosen behavior.
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What frosts me about the attitudes of (some) Christians is that good folks get labeled "abominations" just because of an aspect of their being they cannot control.
None of the things listed in the Bible as "abomination" are things you cannot control. They are all chosen actions.
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None of the things listed in the Bible as "abomination" are things you cannot control. They are all chosen actions.
:bigsilly:
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Got something against monogamy and faithful behavior?
All I'm trying to say is that everyone deserves to be praised or condemned in accordance with their actions as individuals. What frosts me about the attitudes of (some) Christians is that good folks get labeled "abominations" just because of an aspect of their being they cannot control. One doesn't choose whether to be gay or straight - that's up to God. What's up to us is what we choose to make of ourselves, and whether we choose to live by moral precepts.
@Jazzhead
Exactly, we are all judged based on our actions aka behaviors. Every single person makes mistakes but there is a difference between making a mistake and making an effort to not repeat, and choosing to live in that mistake and glorify it.
God doesn't make people gay, thats a ignorant statement. God gave us free will which allows us the choice. Some people suffer for the choices of other people but that doesn't mean God made it.
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@Jazzhead
Exactly, we are all judged based on our actions aka behaviors. Every single person makes mistakes but there is a difference between making a mistake and making an effort to not repeat, and choosing to live in that mistake and glorify it.
God doesn't make people gay, thats a ignorant statement. God gave us free will which allows us the choice. Some people suffer for the choices of other people but that doesn't mean God made it.
Did God make human DNA?
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God doesn't make people gay, thats a ignorant statement. God gave us free will which allows us the choice. Some people suffer for the choices of other people but that doesn't mean God made it.
God makes some of us gay just as He makes most of us straight. Our free will permits us to choose to be monogamous and faithful, or promiscuous and faithless.
But some Christians will condemn the homosexual even if he/she chooses the life of monogamy and faithfulness. That's, well, abominable.
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Did God make human DNA?
@Oceander
I thought it evolved? make up your mind.
But yes i believe God made our DNA, and it was made perfectly. Then Adam and Eve disobeyed God and we started having to answer for our mistakes. Sometimes our mistakes and poor choices impact other people, including our children.
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God makes some of us gay just as He makes most of us straight. Our free will permits us to choose to be monogamous and faithful, or promiscuous and faithless.
But some Christians will condemn the homosexual even if he/she chooses the life of monogamy and faithfulness. That's, well, abominable.
@Jazzhead
God made us male and female. Then he told us that sex is between husband and wife in holy matrimony. Anything outside of that is outside of Gods will. Why would he "make" us something that is against his will?
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@Jazzhead
God doesn't make people gay, thats a ignorant statement. God gave us free will which allows us the choice. Some people suffer for the choices of other people but that doesn't mean God made it.
Does God make Type 1 diabetics, people born with missing limbs, twins fused together? Where are these peoples free choice not to be born that way?
@driftdiver
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Some here paint all gays with one broad paint brush. Not all gays are like Folson parade idiots, Perez Hilton, etc.
Most of the gays I know you would not know they are gay . They dress normal, many are conservative. A good friend of mine who is gay has a gun collection that would make most freeper males envious.
What is funnier yet there are many gays you meet in everyday life who just don't say they are gay I bet you are friends with.
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@Jazzhead
God made us male and female. Then he told us that sex is between husband and wife in holy matrimony. Anything outside of that is outside of Gods will. Why would he "make" us something that is against his will?
That's an odd statement. The OT is one long story about how God made the Jews His people and how they repeatedly and continuously acted against His will and Torah.
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Does God make Type 1 diabetics, people born with missing limbs, twins fused together? Where are these peoples free choice not to be born that way?
@driftdiver
@mirraflake
If Adam and Eve had stayed in the Garden we would not have disease or hunger. Or work for that matter.
So yes life does get difficult at times. You should try being separated from God if you think this is difficult.
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@mirraflake
If Adam and Eve had stayed in the Garden we would not have disease or hunger. Or work for that matter.
So yes life does get difficult at times. You should try being separated from God if you think this is difficult.
Adam and Eve, while in the Garden, acted against God's will.
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That's an odd statement. The OT is one long story about how God made the Jews His people and how they repeatedly and continuously acted against His will and Torah.
@Sanguine
Whats an odd statement and how is your comment related to mine?
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Some here paint all gays with one broad paint brush. Not all gays are like Folson parade idiots, Perez Hilton, etc.
Most of the gays I know you would not know they are gay . They dress normal, many are conservative. A good friend of mine who is gay has a gun collection that would make most freeper males envious.
What is funnier yet there are many gays you meet in everyday life who just don't say they are gay I bet you are friends with.
@mirraflake
The only broad brush going on here is the attacks on Christians.
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Well, in a couple of generations we'll have proof one way or the other. Since taking a wife as cover is no longer needed, homosexuality have been normalized throughout the Western world, if it's genetic, with homosexuals no longer pushed into mating with women, the incidence rate should decline. If it's a choice, having been normalized and "celebrated" by the left, the incidence rate should increase.
Please, before you continue to embarrass yourself with that idiotic first statement read some basic high school biology books will ya??
As for the last line, rates of gay and lesbians have been the same as 40 years ago..just more people are now open about it.
@The_Reader_David
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Adam and Eve, while in the Garden, acted against God's will.
Which is why they were booted, evicted, tossed, summarily thrown out, asked to leave (pick your favorite) the Garden.
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Abuse. Neglect. Abandonment. Rape by a man. Any number of issues might cause the removal of what is natural.
Total BS.
@musiclady
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Please, before you continue to embarrass yourself with that idiotic first statement read some basic high school biology books will ya??
As for the last line, rates of gay and lesbians have been the same as 40 years ago..just more people are now open about it.
@The_Reader_David
Gays seem to want the rest of us to believe that being homosexual is something new. No its been around for all of recorded history and each society makes up its mind how to act towards it.
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Do we have anybody with degrees in Biology?
Do we have anybody that has studied DNA, genetics, from any standpoint?
--genealogy
--medical research and treatments
--paternity
--national/regional origins
--criminology
--other
Anybody know what Haplogroups and Haplotypes are? SNPs?
Y-DNA and mt-DNA and autosomal DNA. Epigenetics?
Their minds are closed.
@truth_seeker
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Their minds are closed.
@truth_seeker
@mirraflake @truth_seeker
You are the ones that are trying to use science to support your predetermined opinion. Despite there being no science to support your theory. Even this 'study' is poorly done and doesnt support the headline.
No, 'science' says that humans are complex beings and science can't explain much of what we do. Much of human behavior comes down to if it feels good then some people will do it regardless of the long term consequences.
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Some here paint all gays with one broad paint brush. Not all gays are like Folson parade idiots, Perez Hilton, etc.
Most of the gays I know you would not know they are gay . They dress normal, many are conservative. A good friend of mine who is gay has a gun collection that would make most freeper males envious.
What is funnier yet there are many gays you meet in everyday life who just don't say they are gay I bet you are friends with.
freeper?
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God makes some of us gay just as He makes most of us straight. Our free will permits us to choose to be monogamous and faithful, or promiscuous and faithless.
But some Christians will condemn the homosexual even if he/she chooses the life of monogamy and faithfulness. That's, well, abominable.
God 'makes' some of us thieves, robbers, rapists and murderers. Our free will permits us to choose to act on those impulses and behaviors, or restrain ourselves from acting on them because morality teaches that such acts are evil.
But some Christians condemn thievery, robbery, rape and murder, even if the criminal chooses a life of only preying on approved constituencies. That's, well, abominable - as are those who promote deviant behaviors as wholesome, natural and righteous.
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Do we have anybody with degrees in Biology?
Do we have anybody that has studied DNA, genetics, from any standpoint?
--genealogy
--medical research and treatments
--paternity
--national/regional origins
--criminology
--other
Anybody know what Haplogroups and Haplotypes are? SNPs?
Y-DNA and mt-DNA and autosomal DNA. Epigenetics?
@truth_seeker
Why speak from knowledge when you can pontificate from ignorance?
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Funny how 1.7% of the population expect to be called normal and to have everyone dance to their tune.
@driftdiver
Red hair might not be normative and only about 1.7% of the population, but it's perfectly normal. What do you have against redheads forcing us to accept them as they are without dying their hair?
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Not really. Some do display some "homosexual" behaviors, but not consistently. For instance, cows may mount each other, but it appears to be an attempt to stimulate ovulation in preparation for breeding.
@Sanguine
Actually, some animals form homosexual pair bonds. Something like a quarter of male black swans form homosexual pair bonds, IIRC.
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Several in the family are gay yet they make up about 1% of the population. Guess you live in the Castro district.
@Frank Cannon @Jazzhead
Or, perhaps, there's a genetic link, so it would more likely be concentrated in a family.
That evidence can point either way.
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@Jazzhead
God made us male and female. Then he told us that sex is between husband and wife in holy matrimony. Anything outside of that is outside of Gods will. Why would he "make" us something that is against his will?
@driftdiver
Leviticus 21:16-23
King James Version (KJV):
16 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the Lord do sanctify them.
Are you denying that He made these "blemished" ones? If they would "profane" His place, are they of His Will?
If so, why couldn't He create others with "blemishes" that aren't so outward, but are still as accepted as a lame person?
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@Frank Cannon @Jazzhead
Or, perhaps, there's a genetic link, so it would more likely be concentrated in a family.
That evidence can point either way.
Or they were raised gay.
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Are you denying that He made these "blemished" ones? If they would "profane" His place, are they of His Will?
If so, why couldn't He create others with "blemishes" that aren't so outward, but are still as accepted as a lame person?
You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, - Deuteronomy 5:9
The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.' - Numbers 14:18
Genetic proclivities to certain negative behaviors likely has its roots in the above as well as deformities. Sin touches everything and has consequences that remain even if the individual repents and is forgiven.
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@driftdiver, I accept that on this topic you are not able to accept other viewpoints. That's fine, as long as we all understand that.
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@truth_seeker
Why speak from knowledge when you can pontificate from ignorance?
I was initially brought to focus on DNA, by my sister. They wanted a male to take the tests. Y-DNA is males only.
So I do tests, and next she too, wants testing.
So fairly recently we both looked at the subject. She tested with Ancestry, and they do "cousin matching."
The matched people were quickly confirmed to be matches. Empirical results confirming the science.
We were brought up with a grandmother who was a biology professor in the 1920s and a mother with a chemistry degree.
BTW the DNA test for Y-DNA confirms exactly the paper version of our family tree for father line. (Haplogroup I1 in central Sweden) Empirical results confirming science.
Finally those females with science training, also taught us that religion and science were NOT mutually exclusive.
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@driftdiver, I accept that on this topic you are not able to accept other viewpoints. That's fine, as long as we all understand that.
@Sanguine
You all act like you have some newly invented view. You don't, its been tried time after time throughout history. It doesnt work and it spreads misery.
All people deserve respect and love, but when they are doing wrong it is not proper to call it good.
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@Sanguine
You all act like you have some newly invented view. You don't, its been tried time after time throughout history. It doesnt work and it spreads misery.
All people deserve respect and love, but when they are doing wrong it is not proper to call it good.
I didn't say a thing about wrong, except that I accept God's ruling on this matter, which is that the action itself is wrong. I was talking about whether homosexuality was a mere choice or had some genetic/congenital properties. You, on the other hand, seem to think it's strictly a choice. I choose to look at it a bit more charitably.
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I didn't say a thing about wrong, except that I accept God's ruling on this matter, which is that the action itself is wrong. I was talking about whether homosexuality was a mere choice or had some genetic/congenital properties. You, on the other hand, seem to think it's strictly a choice. I choose to look at it a bit more charitably.
@Sanguine
Nobody wants to accept responsibility for their actions. Its far easier to blame a gene then to admit that that you've allowed lust, fear, or anger to complicate your life. Are there probably some exceptions, sure, but far fewer then people here think. If it were as simple as 2 genes it would have been proven long ago.
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@Sanguine
You all act like you have some newly invented view. You don't, its been tried time after time throughout history. It doesnt work and it spreads misery.
All people deserve respect and love, but when they are doing wrong it is not proper to call it good.
For much of human history people we would classify today as severely mentally ill were killed as demons or witches not that long ago in human history
@driftdiver
@Sanguine
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Where does the gay affect exhibited by some homosexuals come from? Is that learned too? Do homosexual men “act gay†because it’s expected and they choose it? Or could that gay affectation be partly an expression of the gay genome?
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For much of human history people we would classify today as mentally ill were killed as demons or witches..
@driftdiver
@Sanguine
yes of course, the knowledge gained in the last 200 years totally outweighs all knowledge gained in the prior milleniums. Never mind you still cant prove your 'science' using real science.
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Total BS.
@musiclady
Just so you know, because of my past experience with your claim that every male is a pervert and the depth of ugliness you went to to belittle good men, I really don't care what you think about anything that has to do with morality.
So don't bother pinging me again.
I won't respond.
@mirraflake
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@Sanguine
Nobody wants to accept responsibility for their actions. Its far easier to blame a gene then to admit that that you've allowed lust, fear, or anger to complicate your life. Are there probably some exceptions, sure, but far fewer then people here think. If it were as simple as 2 genes it would have been proven long ago.
DNA research is in its infancy. We are still learning what you have already dismissed.
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DNA research is in its infancy. We are still learning what you have already dismissed.
Correct DNA research is very new. Around 200 years ago medical science still believed "bleeding" was good treatment. 150 years ago diphtheria was treated by gargling kerosene.
The fact we have only early results about DNA is NOT evidence it is flawed science.
Epigenetics is very early and holds great promise in a number of fields.
Not claiming to be an expert, but I doubt the Bible said man would one day fly.
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Here's another problem with the "born gay" theory. It isn't logical.
If a man announces he is gay, he was born gay.
If he later announces he isn't gay, he wasn't born gay.
If he later announces he is indeed gay, he was born gay.
If he subsequently announces he isn't gay, he wasn't born gay.
So was he born gay or not? The answer is not based on scientific evidence but solely on HIS opinion at a given time.
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freeper?
Freepers, the new turd burglars for the new era.
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Here's another problem with the "born gay" theory. It isn't logical.
If a man announces he is gay, he was born gay.
If he later announces he isn't gay, he wasn't born gay.
If he later announces he is indeed gay, he was born gay.
If he subsequently announces he isn't gay, he wasn't born gay.
So was he born gay or not? The answer is not based on scientific evidence but solely on HIS opinion at a given time.
Show a link to a gay man who actually said this.
@Restored
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Just so you know, because of my past experience with your claim that every male is a pervert and the depth of ugliness you went to to belittle good men, I really don't care what you think about anything that has to do with morality.
So don't bother pinging me again.
I won't respond.
I never said all men. I said a large number of men say crude things with close male friends regarding women they don't do in front of their wives especially when they a few beers in them.
I also said just because a man claims or tries to portray Godliness does not mean he he does the same in private. I then linked the Christian survey of Christian males who close to 70% said they view porn on a regular basis-these stats were from a pro Christina group. The ones who claim to not to view porn the loudest are the ones wacking off every night to porn.
..and why do you keep bringing up this old argument every chance you can?? Can't you let it go..jeesh.
@musiclady
whoops not supposed to ping music lady.
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Show a link to a gay man who actually said this.
@Restored
Thousands of men have switched sides at some point in their life. And most gay men say they are born that way. So I don't understand your point.
How do you know they are born gay? They told you
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I never said all men. I said a large number of men say crude things with close male friends regarding women they don't do in front of their wives especially when they a few beers in them.
I also said just because a man claims or tries to portray Godliness does not mean he he does the same in private. I then linked the Christian survey of Christian males who close to 70% said they view porn on a regular basis-these stats were from a pro Christina group. The ones who claim to not to view porn the loudest are the ones wacking off every night to porn.
..and why do you keep bringing up this old argument every chance you can?? Can't you let it go..jeesh.
@musiclady
whoops not supposed to ping music lady.
Well, perhaps it's because you never took back the vile things you said, nor apologized for your smears. It may be old, but it's not gone because you never even acknowledged that you said anything wrong. And it was ugly.
And I'm not interested in your continuing to defend the smear with your phony data either.
You can be as vile as you want, but don't go smearing others. SOME men have control over their behavior. (And I happen to be married to one, whether you like it or not).
But to my point. I don't care what you think about matters of morality because your perspective is warped. So your using vile language just because you disagree with me is only one more reason for me not to pay any attention to you.
Perhaps on other issues we can have a mature discussion, but on matters of right and wrong when it comes to morals, nope.
@mirraflake
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And I'm not interested in your continuing to defend the smear with your phony data either.
The Christian Post survey was phoney?? I don't think so.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/nearly-two-thirds-of-christian-men-view-porn-monthly-they-are-watching-it-at-same-rate-as-secular-men-says-study-125471/ (https://www.christianpost.com/news/nearly-two-thirds-of-christian-men-view-porn-monthly-they-are-watching-it-at-same-rate-as-secular-men-says-study-125471/)
@musiclady
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The Christian Post survey was phoney?? I don't think so.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/nearly-two-thirds-of-christian-men-view-porn-monthly-they-are-watching-it-at-same-rate-as-secular-men-says-study-125471/ (https://www.christianpost.com/news/nearly-two-thirds-of-christian-men-view-porn-monthly-they-are-watching-it-at-same-rate-as-secular-men-says-study-125471/)
@musiclady
You made your accusation very, very personal. It's obvious that you've forgotten how nasty you really got.
I'll happily forgive you, if you ask.......
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I'll happily forgive you, if you ask.......
I don't know that I would extend them that much control.
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I don't know that I would extend them that much control.
Perhaps you're right.....
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Perhaps you're right.....
No, that's not how forgiveness works...
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No, that's not how forgiveness works...
I know, I know........
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I know, I know........
:grouphug:
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Got something against monogamy and faithful behavior?
All I'm trying to say is that everyone deserves to be praised or condemned in accordance with their actions as individuals. What frosts me about the attitudes of (some) Christians is that good folks get labeled "abominations" just because of an aspect of their being they cannot control. One doesn't choose whether to be gay or straight - that's up to God. What's up to us is what we choose to make of ourselves, and whether we choose to live by moral precepts.
God sets those standards, not men. And 'control' is the same as saying 'freedom to decide'. God gives us all the rope we need and He expects us to use it wisely.
You can praise queer folks to your hearts content as being 'moral', and maybe I can at times, but someone else is the decider, not you or me.
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Are you a human being? Or an animal?
Do you have the intelligence to know the difference?
There are definitely some people who are born with a disposition that bespeaks an abnormality related to their gender. I don't have a problem with that. Do you treat effeminate males or masculine females with derision and disrespect? No. The same as people with Down's or other things they are born with.
As an example, our middle granddaughter was born addicted to opioids. She has some behaviors that are textbook et al. She is NOT being treated with medications. She is being treated with loving kindness and a willow stick.
It is the in your face forced acceptance of other people who are simply defying the Law of Creation and acting like animals, instead of human beings, that I take exceptance to. Do what you want. Do it in private. Put it on front street and try to tell me I am the one that is f u e d up and the fight is on.
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Field of "Epigenetics"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
"Epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene function that do not involve changes in the DNA sequence.[1] The Greek prefix epi- (á¼Ï€Î¹- "over, outside of, around") in epigenetics implies features that are "on top of" or "in addition to" the traditional genetic basis for inheritance.[2] Epigenetics often refers to changes in a chromosome that affect gene activity and expression, but can also be used to describe any heritable phenotypic change that does not derive from a modification of the genome, such as prions. Such effects on cellular and physiological phenotypic traits may result from external or environmental factors, or be part of normal developmental program. The standard definition of epigenetics requires these alterations to be heritable,[3][4] either in the progeny of cells or of organisms."
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Field of "Epigenetics"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
"Epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene function that do not involve changes in the DNA sequence.[1] The Greek prefix epi- (á¼Ï€Î¹- "over, outside of, around") in epigenetics implies features that are "on top of" or "in addition to" the traditional genetic basis for inheritance.[2] Epigenetics often refers to changes in a chromosome that affect gene activity and expression, but can also be used to describe any heritable phenotypic change that does not derive from a modification of the genome, such as prions. Such effects on cellular and physiological phenotypic traits may result from external or environmental factors, or be part of normal developmental program. The standard definition of epigenetics requires these alterations to be heritable,[3][4] either in the progeny of cells or of organisms."
Sooo...what is the purpose of immunology?
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Sooo...what is the purpose of immunology?
Sex with interns, obviously.
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Sex with interns, obviously.
Another sheepish reply.
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In days of old...
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Another sheepish reply.
Brings a whole new meaning to 'getting on your woolies'...
:silly: :beer:
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Brings a whole new meaning to 'getting on your woolies'...
:silly: :beer:
Sumpin most people know more about than they would admit.
Surviving the winter of our despair.
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Are you a human being? Or an animal?
Do you have the intelligence to know the difference?
There are definitely some people who are born with a disposition that bespeaks an abnormality related to their gender. I don't have a problem with that. Do you treat effeminate males or masculine females with derision and disrespect? No. The same as people with Down's or other things they are born with.
As an example, our middle granddaughter was born addicted to opioids. She has some behaviors that are textbook et al. She is NOT being treated with medications. She is being treated with loving kindness and a willow stick.
It is the in your face forced acceptance of other people who are simply defying the Law of Creation and acting like animals, instead of human beings, that I take exceptance to. Do what you want. Do it in private. Put it on front street and try to tell me I am the one that is f u e d up and the fight is on.
All of that is why God gave us his Bible.
Try reading that and it all clears up for you and others struggling on how to handle things.
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I went to college in the early 80's and was asked to participate in a couple of studies on the effects of hormones in the womb. I an a DES baby and on blind tests I am classified as a male. There are still ongoing studies on the subject and they all seem to come to the same conclusions based on their data. A mishap in the sequencing of hormones can change the brain structure and one of those changes can be in sex preferences. (Very brief.)
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1. Men and women are born with sexual preferences - men for women and women for men, in most cases.
2. Normal distributions says there are inevitably some on either end that do not fall within the "normal" range.
3. Men and women are different and they are born that way. See #1 above.
So, men and women would have to be the same if sexual preference is merely a personal choice. See #1 and #3 above. If you're born with it, it ain't a choice. I don't find other women arousing, and I do find some men very much so. I never had to make a choice about it - it simply is the way I'm made.
So, in order for sexual preference to be a choice, it would have to NOT be an inherent/genetic/congenital/pre-determined sort of trait. And, if it weren't an inherent/genetic/congenital/pre-determined sort of trait, men and women would be the same in this regard. See #1 and #3 above. We know that is not the case.
Therefore, to have a sexual preference for people of the same gender, one is abnormal (see #2 above) and probably born with it, see #1 above.
Now, there is some choice involved - that of acting upon one's preferences or not. Just as there is a choice for heterosexuals - sex should only occur within the confines of matrimony. No marriage, no sex. Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone. (It won't be me - I'm sure not in a position to start collecting stones.)
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1. Men and women are born with sexual preferences - men for women and women for men, in most cases.
2. Normal distributions says there are inevitably some on either end that do not fall within the "normal" range.
3. Men and women are different and they are born that way. See #1 above.
So, men and women would have to be the same if sexual preference is merely a personal choice. See #1 and #3 above. If you're born with it, it ain't a choice. I don't find other women arousing, and I do find some men very much so. I never had to make a choice about it - it simply is the way I'm made.
So, in order for sexual preference to be a choice, it would have to NOT be an inherent/genetic/congenital/pre-determined sort of trait. And, if it weren't an inherent/genetic/congenital/pre-determined sort of trait, men and women would be the same in this regard. See #1 and #3 above. We know that is not the case.
Therefore, to have a sexual preference for people of the same gender, one is abnormal (see #2 above) and probably born with it, see #1 above.
Now, there is some choice involved - that of acting upon one's preferences or not. Just as there is a choice for heterosexuals - sex should only occur within the confines of matrimony. No marriage, no sex. Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone. (It won't be me - I'm sure not in a position to start collecting stones.)
I'm sure not in a position to start collecting stones.
Thanks. Another shattered dream.
I admit I had sex with my girlfriend. Six times in one night. A couple of weeks before our wedding "we" had six kids. Born ten minutes apart.
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1. Men and women are born with sexual preferences - men for women and women for men, in most cases.
2. Normal distributions says there are inevitably some on either end that do not fall within the "normal" range.
3. Men and women are different and they are born that way. See #1 above.
So, men and women would have to be the same if sexual preference is merely a personal choice. See #1 and #3 above. If you're born with it, it ain't a choice. I don't find other women arousing, and I do find some men very much so. I never had to make a choice about it - it simply is the way I'm made.
So, in order for sexual preference to be a choice, it would have to NOT be an inherent/genetic/congenital/pre-determined sort of trait. And, if it weren't an inherent/genetic/congenital/pre-determined sort of trait, men and women would be the same in this regard. See #1 and #3 above. We know that is not the case.
Therefore, to have a sexual preference for people of the same gender, one is abnormal (see #2 above) and probably born with it, see #1 above.
Now, there is some choice involved - that of acting upon one's preferences or not. Just as there is a choice for heterosexuals - sex should only occur within the confines of matrimony. No marriage, no sex. Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone. (It won't be me - I'm sure not in a position to start collecting stones.)
:thumbsup:
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There are definitely some people who are born with a disposition that bespeaks an abnormality related to their gender.
This is a problem I have with the interpretation many have provided of the Christian God.
He creates many with heavy, cruel burdens that He could relieve in a heartbeat.
If a human tormented, or allowed torment of, children the way God does, we would be rightly reviled. Yet here we are.
We sit here and read in I Corinthians 7 7For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
and admit that it is unreasonable to expect human beings to contain their passions. Yet at the same time, God gives men passions for each other and says they can't act on them. How cruel is that?
Yes, we say kleptomaniacs can't exercise their preferences, and pedophiles can't exercise theirs -- examples where there are victims, and God still allows those cruel passions. And in the case of victimless homosexual bonding, we have humans opposing it.
It just seems rather ridiculous.
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I would that all men were even as I myself.
Now here see. This is so easy it is impossibly hard. Submit to the WILL of God. Give your free will back to the giver. And then you will be as even.
Your burden. If you are so enhanced or enchanted with your own wellbeing that you ignore or turn your head and walk by those who have been burdened with things you haven't been burdened by, because you think no one cares about your burdens, even knowing that a simple act of kindness could change both of your lives and STILL you walk by, knowing that YOU could relieve, in a heartbeat, for them, it benefits both of you, performing an act of God? And then ask the question you ask.
As an aside, there are a number of kids, not so much kids now, that call me "dad'. Today, the wife and I went grocery shopping. As we were leaving a girl bagging her things said something to my wife. Called her by name, my wife responded calling her by her name. She looked at me and said How you doing, dad? I had a talk with her 10 or 12 years ago when she was a running gunning fool. There are a large number of others. That call me dad. I am a grandpa now and there are times I ask myself--when will I become a man???
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This is a problem I have with the interpretation many have provided of the Christian God.
He creates many with heavy, cruel burdens that He could relieve in a heartbeat.
No, you are in a quarantine area behind enemy lines. Contractually, humans signed over their rights to the Dark One and the Fallen. You don't understand the authority. Our fight for now is with 'powers and principalities in high places'. The price to purchase it back has been paid... All we need do now is wait for the lease to run out.
If a human tormented, or allowed torment of, children the way God does, we would be rightly reviled. Yet here we are.
It is not YHWH doing that.
We sit here and read in I Corinthians 7
and admit that it is unreasonable to expect human beings to contain their passions. Yet at the same time, God gives men passions for each other and says they can't act on them. How cruel is that?
Those passions are not from him.
Yes, we say kleptomaniacs can't exercise their preferences, and pedophiles can't exercise theirs -- examples where there are victims, and God still allows those cruel passions. And in the case of victimless homosexual bonding, we have humans opposing it.
NOTHING is 'victimless'.
It just seems rather ridiculous.
you speak from a position of ignorance. Read the Book
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This is a problem I have with the interpretation many have provided of the Christian God.
He creates many with heavy, cruel burdens that He could relieve in a heartbeat.
...
I agree with you that we should feel compassion for gays; it's a heavy burden.
OK, I'm not the best person to explain this, but I know your questions come from a very real place and are asked earnestly, so I'll try.
I guess the seemingly slightly flippant answer would be: "because that's the world we live in". That normal distribution curve requires the deviations on each end of the "normal" part of the curve.
Animals who do what they were born to do, tigers eating antelope, elephants pushing over trees to get at the leaves, sharks gnawing on the occasional surfer, etc., are doing exactly what they were designed to do and are not good or bad.
For reasons unknown to us, God decided to imbue us, animals at that point and made of the same "dirt" as were all other living things, with His spirit - his breath. This created in us a dual nature. We are children of God, but fully human/animal too. God directs us to transcend our animal nature and become more like Him, but our physical animal nature wars with that command.
God gave us instructions as to how to live our lives according to his instructions: Torah. We are supposed to do our best to live up to God's instructions, and we live in faith knowing that God will reward us.
Hopefully, others wiser than I can add to this.
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There is a huge difference to me between tolerance and acceptance. I don't care if you walk on three legs or two. Exceed my tolerance and you are crawling home. No matter how many legs you have.
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This is a problem I have with the interpretation many have provided of the Christian God.
He creates many with heavy, cruel burdens that He could relieve in a heartbeat.
One does not build character existing on easy-street in a fallen world run by the Adversary. Overcoming this world, our flesh and the god of this world is what Christians have to contend with in this age. That said, God has healed many in a heartbeat according to their faith in Him and His will. Others He has not.
If a human tormented, or allowed torment of, children the way God does, we would be rightly reviled. Yet here we are.
Most of us choose our own condition and suffer the consequences of our choices, even passing them down to our children and visit them upon our neighbors. Even Jefferson noted that human nature will willfully tolerate evil, as long as evils are tolerable rather than abolish the forms to which they are become accustomed and throw off such conditions for liberty. Human history teaches us that men prefer to be slaves and will willingly sell themselves into it rather than risk the unknown of self-reliance.
We sit here and read in I Corinthians 7
and admit that it is unreasonable to expect human beings to contain their passions. Yet at the same time, God gives men passions for each other and says they can't act on them. How cruel is that?
I don't know. Ask the guy who thinks he has a right to take your stuff or have sex with your wife or maybe your children simply because he has vile passions to act upon and take what he wants because he must satisfy his desires?
Who are you to tell him 'no'? Who are you to say his 'passions' are wrong?
How cruel is that? To deny him his passions?
Is it because you claim to be a 'victim' of his passions?
Who decides what is moral? Selfish humans who reject a spiritual nature of selflessness to satisfy the flesh? Or the One whom created us in the first place?
And in the case of victimless homosexual bonding, we have humans opposing it.
Because it is not natural and God states plainly in both Old and New Testaments that it is an abomination and wicked. He did not design us for that perversion.
It just seems rather ridiculous.
To the world, God's ways have always been seen as foolish and stupid - because men think they know better how to live, as his 6000 year written history proves.
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Who decides what is moral? Selfish humans who reject a spiritual nature of selflessness to satisfy the flesh? Or the One whom created us in the first place?
Therein lies the crux, and goes all the way back to the Garden... The 'knowledge of good and evil'... Prior to the fall, Hoomins had explicit ever present knowledge of the good. Think of that, walking and talking with God himself in the cool of the evening... What knowledge beyond that could possibly be of any value?
Yet they believed the lie, and decided for themselves, and opened the world to the evil ones.
And here it is, yet again.
WE DECIDE what's good and evil - That's the claim. Because we think we know better than He who formed us.
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Does the difference cause the behavior or does the behavior cause the difference?
Depends on the issue. To say that all gay people are gay because of a 2 genes is a huge stretch and really really poor science.
The term is Scientism: the misapplication of scientific terminology/Scientific sounding terminology to advance a preferential agenda/pre determined outcome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism)
There is no such thing as any gene/combination of genes underlying human thoughts, moods, behaviors.
To even Imply otherwise deserves to be criminalized.
I used to read actual published research papers supporting this 100% rubbish.
I gave it up when I found practicing Psychologist Dr Jay Josephs work because he's been at it for 30 years and is much better at documenting the distortions of the scientific method, the push, in this area.
http://jayjoseph.net/publications (http://jayjoseph.net/publications)
Homosexuality, like any mood, thought, or behavior, is a Learned behavior.
To imply otherwise is as asinine and disgusting a perversion of science as allowing white supremacists to claim that the fact that a disproportionate percentage of the people in prison today are black 'Scientifically' proves that black people are genetically predisposed to become criminals.
And then allow Govt to institute a program based on the claim to prevent crime by pre-emptively locking up all pre-criminals.
Behavioral Genetics remains what it has always been: NAZI Pseudo Science.
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Homosexuality, like any mood, thought, or behavior, is a Learned behavior.
No more so than heterosexuality is. So ask yourself: Did you learn to be heterosexual, or is that just how you're wired?
Whatever your orientation, how you behave is entirely your choice.
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No more so than heterosexuality is. So ask yourself: Did you learn to be heterosexual, or is that just how you're wired?
Whatever your orientation, how you behave is entirely your choice.
Yeah the behavior which ensures the continuation of our race is a "learned behavior". I mean its not like our bodies are designed for heterosexual behavior or anything. LOL
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/719/509/0ad.png)
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1. Men and women are born with sexual preferences - men for women and women for men, in most cases.
2. Normal distributions says there are inevitably some on either end that do not fall within the "normal" range.
3. Men and women are different and they are born that way. See #1 above.
So, men and women would have to be the same if sexual preference is merely a personal choice. See #1 and #3 above. If you're born with it, it ain't a choice. I don't find other women arousing, and I do find some men very much so. I never had to make a choice about it - it simply is the way I'm made.
So, in order for sexual preference to be a choice, it would have to NOT be an inherent/genetic/congenital/pre-determined sort of trait. And, if it weren't an inherent/genetic/congenital/pre-determined sort of trait, men and women would be the same in this regard. See #1 and #3 above. We know that is not the case.
Therefore, to have a sexual preference for people of the same gender, one is abnormal (see #2 above) and probably born with it, see #1 above.
Now, there is some choice involved - that of acting upon one's preferences or not. Just as there is a choice for heterosexuals - sex should only occur within the confines of matrimony. No marriage, no sex. Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone. (It won't be me - I'm sure not in a position to start collecting stones.)
It's an elegant syllogism, I will give you that. But flawed. There are many intervening variables after birth that might influence a person's behavior. These are "learned" behaviors. There are human predispositions that are wholly genetic (such as my brown eyes), there are human predispositions that are partially genetic/partially learned (such as my tendency toward compulsiveness), and there are predispositions that are wholly learned (such as my knowing that Moore lost the Alabama election on Tuesday).
"Personality" is one of those things that falls into the second category. You can be born with certain personality predispositions governed by genetics, but as you experience things in life, your personality can change. For example, if you were born being a big risk-taker, but then you take a risk and lose big-time, this might cause you to become risk averse. Sexual orientation is like that. You can be born with one predisposition (including gay), but change based on any learning mechanism from life experience to simple persuasion. Like personality, sexuality tends to be long-term and stable (unlike mood swings), but it is definitely subject to change based on environment.
Bottom line: not all gays are "born that way." Some probably are.
This is important because the political agenda of the gay community is to get the straight community to regard gay love as equivalent to straight love. For me, I have no problem with that. If two people love each other, I see no reason to denigrate it because they both happen to be the same sex. Gay marriage? Meh. I see both sides. But the average person needs more than me. The average person must believe that gays "can't help it, they are born that way" in order to accept gay love as equivalent to straight love. And so the activists go spouting a big lie that everyone in the social sciences knows is a big lie, but political correctness requires that it be whitewashed.
We have not seen this kind of pressure to avoid the truth since "The Bell Curve."
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“Biological imperatives are the needs of living organisms required to perpetuate their existence: to survive. Include the following hierarchy of logical imperatives for a living organism: survival, territorialism, competition, reproduction, quality of life-seeking, and group forming.â€
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The term is Scientism: the misapplication of scientific terminology/Scientific sounding terminology to advance a preferential agenda/pre determined outcome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism)
There is no such thing as any gene/combination of genes underlying human thoughts, moods, behaviors.
To even Imply otherwise deserves to be criminalized.
So men and women are no different? There are no inherent behaviors?
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So men and women are no different? There are no inherent behaviors?
I know that cannot be true, I’ve been around a pregnant woman at home, and men and women interacting in the boardroom.
Men and women look and behave differently. Thank you, Lord!
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So men and women are no different? There are no inherent behaviors?
Not when it comes to homosexuality being a Learned Behavior.
Women are not Born with Lesbian Genes anymore than men are Born with Gay genes.
You've driven your bus completely off topic by comparing men and women.
That is not the argument I made. You have conclusion jumped.
Try READING some of the material I provided for you before going channel surfing.
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I know that cannot be true, I’ve been around a pregnant woman at home, and men and women interacting in the boardroom.
Men and women look and behave differently. Thank you, Lord!
So I can't get pregnant? :pondering:
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I know that cannot be true, I’ve been around a pregnant woman at home, and men and women interacting in the boardroom.
Men and women look and behave differently. Thank you, Lord!
X and Y chromsomes have been conclusively identified under microscopes.
Homosexual chromosomes have not and never will be.
And our Govt. bless its pointy little Vote Whoring head is pissing away tax money through the NIMH to fund the Quixotic Quest Looking for them - creating problems at tax payer expense - to this day.
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Where's that 'Jeez Not This S*** Again' pic?
Gays got to have their genetic legitimization for what they do.
More like a lethal mutation: It does nothing to perpetuate the species. It is a behaviour that is closely linked with a lethal disease.
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Not when it comes to homosexuality being a Learned Behavior.
Women are not Born with Lesbian Genes anymore than men are Born with Gay genes.
You've driven your bus completely off topic by comparing men and women.
That is not the argument I made. You have conclusion jumped.
Try READING some of the material I provided for you before going channel surfing.
You're missing the argument.
And, no channel surfing needed to think through the question logically.
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How could two brown-eyed parents have blue-eyed children?
Blue is recessive, Brown is dominant. If both parents are Brown-eyed, but carry the gene for blue eyes, then one combination in 4 will have blue eyes, statistically (both recessive genes, one from each parent). It's why there are blue eyed Indians around (one of my wife's uncles, for one). Not allowing for tipi creeping he was an outlier, most of the boys (and their sisters) had brown eyes.
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You're missing the argument.
And, no channel surfing needed to think through the question logically.
The hell it is.
You're side tracking the issue off into a Unisex Behavior model - Neither the Post Topic , NOR My Argument - which is Where and How this whole Destructive proliferation of Transgenderism has its roots.
A philosophy Prof once opened his course before me with the statement that "There are only Two races of human beings in all the Universe: Men and Women."
Any damn fool of either sex can get naked in front of a mirror and see the difference.
Run the same experiment with a Lesbian or Gay person, and there is NO observable biological Difference between them and a Heterosexual human being, OF THEIR OWN SEX.
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Blue is recessive, Brown is dominant. If both parents are Brown-eyed, but carry the gene for blue eyes, then one combination in 4 will have blue eyes, statistically (both recessive genes, one from each parent). It's why there are blue eyed Indians around (one of my wife's uncles, for one). Not allowing for tipi creeping he was an outlier, most of the boys (and their sisters) had brown eyes.
Yes, that is how recessive genes continue to be passed down.
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The hell it is.
You're side tracking the issue off into a Unisex Behavior model - Neither the Post Topic , NOR My Argument - which is Where and How this whole Destructive proliferation of Transgenderism has its roots.
A philosophy Prof once opened his course before me with the statement that "There are only Two races of human beings in all the Universe: Men and Women."
Any damn fool of either sex can get naked in front of a mirror and see the difference.
Run the same experiment with a Lesbian or Gay person, and there is NO observable biological Difference between them and a Heterosexual human being, OF THEIR OWN SEX.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Your mind is made up. I'm just presenting facts; you may (and do) reject them as you like.
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Repressive societies (radical Islam) kill members discovered to be homosexual. Homosexuality in these traditions can be a death sentence.
Yet some folks here insist homosexuality is learned behavior? In a repressed society where homosexuality is not only not accepted nor celebrated but rather is sought to be violently extinguished. And yet homosexuality still exists in Islam.
I’m still not buying that it’s an individual choice, when that choice could result in execution by being thrown off rooftops. One must be genetically predisposed to risk engagement in that behavior.
Meh. Smoking tobacco won't quite get you thrown off a rooftop (yet) but smokers commonly start when they are too young to legally possess a cigarette. Sometimes, something being forbidden has it's allure because it is forbidden. Then the whole fixation, obsession thing kicks in (for some people).
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Any damn fool of either sex can get naked in front of a mirror and see the difference.
Sure about that?
(http://www.mtv.co.uk/sites/default/files/styles/carousel_wide/public/mtv_uk/articles/2015/08/31/bieberw.jpg?itok=p6lZAnOF)
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And historically it hasn't been much easier in so-called enlightened societies. Many Christians condemn homosexuals - even those who live monogamously with a partner - as perverts and abominations. Up until recently, homosexual behavior was an accepted excuse for discrimination, in housing, in employment, in legal rights of all kinds.
Of course it isn't a choice. For most, it's no more a choice than race or gender. Gay folks have exactly the same choices as straight folks - whether to live a moral and responsible life, of monogamy and faithful behavior, or of promiscuity and dissipation.
There you go again.
Christians condemn Homosexuality and Homosexual behaviour, not homosexuals. Homosexuals are the sinners, homosexuality is the sin. The sin is an abomination to The Almighty, and listed in scripture as such, but Christians are admonished to avoid sin and leave the judgement of the sinner to God.
As usual, you have it wrong.
As for choice, If you can choose not to, then if you do, you choose to do so. Pretty simple, really.
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I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Your mind is made up. I'm just presenting facts; you may (and do) reject them as you like.
What Facts? You haven't presented a single fact or any resources to back up your fishing expedition yet.
Answer this one.
If a person's Lesbian/Gay Behavior is in their DNA it will then be passed along to offspring, how ever many generations removed. Dominant/Recessive genes etc.
Since Homosexuals cannot biologically reproduce, then Why haven't those recessive genes already eliminated themselves out of the human gene pool?
They've only had what, 45,000 to 50,000 years, and they're Still with us?
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What Facts? You haven't presented a single fact or any resources to back up your fishing expedition yet.
Answer this one.
If a person's Lesbian/Gay Behavior is in their DNA it will then be passed along to offspring, how ever many generations removed. Dominant/Recessive genes etc.
Since Homosexuals cannot biologically reproduce, then Why haven't those recessive genes already eliminated themselves out of the human gene pool?
They've only had what, 45,000 to 50,000 years, and they're Still with us?
Calm down. You sound like you think you're being personally attacked.
And, of course homosexuals can biologically reproduce. They've done it throughout history.
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Calm down. You sound like you think you're being personally attacked.
And, of course homosexuals can biologically reproduce. They've done it throughout history.
Now this is desperation.
You're conflating Homosexual conduct with Bisexual conduct.
Homosexuals - of the same sex - cannot biologically reproduce with each other.
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Since Homosexuals cannot biologically reproduce, then Why haven't those recessive genes already eliminated themselves out of the human gene pool?
LOL. Can't reproduce. Really? That's a revelation......
When Christian rock star Trey Pearson announced he was coming out of the closet and separating from his wife and their two children after seven and a half years of marriage, he said that his wife had been his “biggest supporter†and that “she just hugged me and cried and said how proud of me she was.â€
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/its-possible-gays-and-lesbians-can-have-happy-marriages (https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/its-possible-gays-and-lesbians-can-have-happy-marriages)
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LOL. Can't reproduce. Really? That's a revelation......
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/its-possible-gays-and-lesbians-can-have-happy-marriages (https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/its-possible-gays-and-lesbians-can-have-happy-marriages)
Frank: READ the Topic of this Post.
It's about Gay Behavior being caused by DNA, not gay sperm count or anything else to do with his ability to impregnate a woman.
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Frank: READ the Topic of this Post.
It's about Gay Behavior being caused by DNA, not gay sperm count or anything else to do with his ability to impregnate a woman.
And you are aware how DNA is transferred on, right? There were a hell of a lot of closeted gay dudes in marriages pumping out kids up until the last 30 or so years. You said it was "biologically impossible" for gay dudes to reproduce. That's totally absurd. LOL. Just look at this fairy for proof....
(http://www.truenorthtimes.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/prince-charles.jpg)
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And you are aware how DNA is transferred on, right? There were a hell of a lot of closeted gay dudes in marriages pumping out kids up until the last 30 or so years. You said it was "biologically impossible" for gay dudes to reproduce. That's totally absurd. LOL. Just look at this fairy for proof....
(http://www.truenorthtimes.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/prince-charles.jpg)
Not with each other they don't.
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@Frank Cannon
The Topic is Homosexual, not AC/DC.
Homosexual Behavior does not produce children.
How do you even know your example of the clown with the mallet even made the drop?
And it wasn't some surrogate guy?
Marital infidelity is not unknown with Brit Royalty either.
Were you there to witness or film him actually impregnating the woman?
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Not with each other they don't.
Don't have to be with each other. Say God started us out with 100 people on the planet and 2% of them had some mutated gene that made them want to screw the same sex. It isn't much different than people with lobster hands or a tail. At any rate, even though they want to live with a same sex partner, societal norms force them to set up a family structure because it says so in the bible after all. Well even though these people should technically die off, the fact that they keep reproducing sends that gene down the line where it pops up at random times. Now we have John Kasich.
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Not with each other they don't.
Of course not. Who suggested that they did? That's not what you said.
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Of course not. Who suggested that they did? That's not what you said.
You quote me and then post that "That's not what I said."
How many times do I have to keep Dragging this thread back on topic?
Homosexual Behavior is not caused by DNA.
If anyone has actual proof that it is, . . . which trumps the entire page of Links to papers conclusively destroying Behavioral Genetics that I linked to, . . . Then DRAG IT OUT AND POST IT!
Continuing to circumvent the main thesis of the Junk, Crap, Agenda Driven, Sloppy Scientism the original article is rooted in does not validate any of the 'Look at my sense of humor Cute' responses I've so far gotten.
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You quote me and then post that "That's not what I said."
How many times do I have to keep Dragging this thread back on topic?
Homosexual Behavior is not caused by DNA.
If anyone has actual proof that it is, . . . which trumps the entire page of Links to papers conclusively destroying Behavioral Genetics that I linked to, . . . Then DRAG IT OUT AND POST IT!
Continuing to circumvent the main thesis of the Junk, Crap, Agenda Driven, Sloppy Scientism the original article is rooted in does not validate any of the 'Look at my sense of humor Cute' responses I've so far gotten.
You're just throwing a temper tantrum because no one agrees with you.
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Homosexual Behavior is not caused by DNA.
Correct. Homosexual behavior - just like heterosexual behavior - is a choice. One can choose to live promiscuously or monogamously, to cheat or remain faithful.
However, sexual orientation is not a choice. Folks are wired the way they are - science isn't required to know this, it's intuitive. Ask yourself if you could be attracted to the gender you're not wired to respond to.
God made us all - straight or gay. What's up to us is how we act in accordance with our sexuality.
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You quote me and then post that "That's not what I said."
How many times do I have to keep Dragging this thread back on topic?
Homosexual Behavior is not caused by DNA.
If anyone has actual proof that it is, . . . which trumps the entire page of Links to papers conclusively destroying Behavioral Genetics that I linked to, . . . Then DRAG IT OUT AND POST IT!
Continuing to circumvent the main thesis of the Junk, Crap, Agenda Driven, Sloppy Scientism the original article is rooted in does not validate any of the 'Look at my sense of humor Cute' responses I've so far gotten.
I did prove it. You reject it. And....there we are.
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You're just throwing a temper tantrum because no one agrees with you.
@Frank Cannon
Oh, I'm the one throwing a temper tantrum, because no one agrees with me?
Proof, Frank. Real Scientific method Frank.
Not more pictures of Brit Royalty swinging Smurf Hammers.
No one here who doesn't 'Agree' with me has had anywhere near time enough to even begin to examine the Proof I've presented, but it's my problem, a personal issue, because the uniformed on the actual science of the thesis itself boils down to a matter of 'Agreement' trumping the science.
Science is taking a Theory and working yourself inside out to disprove the theory.
Once the possible arguments against the Theory have been exhausted without Proving why the Theory doesn't hold water, . . . Then, the Theory becomes accepted, but only until further discovery achieved through strict adherence to the Scientific Method either modifies or destroys the original Theory.
In Behavioral Genetics it boils down to the results upholding the DNA/Genes are responsible for Behaviors Theory, . . . are Non-Reproducible.
They keep running the same experiments over and over and keep coming up with different, contradictory outcomes.
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I did prove it. You reject it. And....there we are.
You have proved that Homosexual Behavior is caused by DNA?
Where?
At some Celebrity Roast in Hollywood? Because you certainly haven't proved it here.
I'm all ears.
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@Frank Cannon
No one here who doesn't 'Agree' with me has had anywhere near time enough to even begin to examine the Proof I've presented, but it's my problem, a personal issue, because the uniformed on the actual science of the thesis itself boils down to a matter of 'Agreement' trumping the science.
I told you how genes work in a post. You ignored it. I don't give a shit. You do. It does seem to be a personal problem.
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Here, One and All, have a look at how corrupt and full of BS the 'Esteemed and Well Respected' Scientific Journals of today actually are.
In Academia there's a maxim:
"Publish or Die."
And Publish they Do.
There's a site dedicated to tracking Retractions of those 'Scientific' buckets of massaged Hogwash after they get called on rigging their research.
Publishing keeps the big, fat, Govt Research Grants, Private Sector Industrial Research Grants, Mega Leftist Foundational Research Grants rolling in. If you're on the grant gravy train and you don't sell whatever the grant maker wants sold, they'll yank your grant and award it to to some other Degreed Flunky who will.
http://retractionwatch.com/ (http://retractionwatch.com/)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEbSABWJiJc#)
There's an awful lot more of this 'I'm a Scientist' con game going on in Academia than most people have any idea of.
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How come laypersons just fling their opinions about scientific subjects back and forth, with no mention of the experiments, data etc.?
--DNA science is in its infancy
--DNA science is being aggressively pursued for medical applications
--DNA science is already considered proved such that it is used for criminal justice, paternity, genealogy, etc.
--The rate of discoveries is accelerating, as if often the case in scientific breakthroughs.
--The subset called Epigenetics deals with nature/nurture combinations whereby environmental changes, wind up changing DNA over time.
People actually study such things, beyond holding pre-conceived opinions.
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I told you how genes work in a post. You ignored it. I don't give a shit. You do. It does seem to be a personal problem.
You don't give a shit.
No shit.
You introduced a non-sequitur to make your point, got called on it, and now it's my personal problem.
If I have a personal problem it's being brushed off by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, and then responds by AGAIN, ducking the unsupportable, grant grubbing, cub reporter MAIN Thesis of the article.
NAZI pseudo science.
The entire canard/field of Behavioral Genetics is what got 11 Million people murdered in Nazi Germany's concentration camps.
The Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, Russians were genetic inferiors. Their supposed genetic variations/defects from pure Aryan genes/Normal Genes, was the excuse invoked to exterminate them.
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More like a lethal mutation: It does nothing to perpetuate the species. It is a behaviour that is closely linked with a lethal disease.
Yours is the first post to mention mutation. I like.
It’s been awhile since biology but as I recall evolution requires random mutations in DNA replication. Those genetic errors that improved the odds of survival were passed on, but so too were those mutations that offered no practical advantage for survival, such as some variation in physical appearance. And of course, lethal errors in genetic coding took care of themselves.
In my view homosexuality in a population was of no threat to the biological imperative of reproduction—I assume there were plenty of babies being conceived to insure survival of the species.
Every aspect of life on earth is the result of eons of genetic experimentation, trial and error. Homosexuality is just one expression of genetic variation and I believe advances in gene technology will someday confirm that view.
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Someone tell me why any of this nonsense even matters at this point? What possible difference could it make one way or the other?
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Someone tell me why any of this nonsense even matters at this point? What possible difference could it make one way or the other?
Because the left is trying to use (and has been trying for decades) to "prove" that homosexuality is "natural," and further erode the morality of the nation they are trying to destroy.
That's why it matters.
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Because the left is trying to use (and has been trying for decades) to "prove" that homosexuality is "natural," and further erode the morality of the nation they are trying to destroy.
That's why it matters.
And they've already been given extra rights to allow them to basically whatever the hell they want. So, back to my question; what difference does it make?
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It matters to me because, 1) it is of scientific interest, and 2) to many people, if it is solely a choice, it removes the need for any sympathy/empathy towards people who identify that way.
I would never argue that it is "natural", just as I wouldn't argue that pedophilia or sociopathy are "natural". They're clearly not, but the root cause may be beyond a mere "choice".
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It matters to me because, 1) it is of scientific interest, and 2) to many people, if it is solely a choice, it removes the need for any sympathy/empathy towards people who identify that way.
I would never argue that it is "natural", just as I wouldn't argue that pedophilia or sociopathy are "natural". They're clearly not, but the root cause may be beyond a mere "choice".
Yes, there is the scientific interest of it. It will be a very long time before every gene and combination is understood, so from that aspect it's about impossible to prove that it's not genetic.
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In my view homosexuality in a population was of no threat to the biological imperative of reproduction—I assume there were plenty of babies being conceived to insure survival of the species.
Not only no threat, but homosexual it appears to offer a positive influence in passing along genes.
"Huh?!?"
Remember that siblings share genes. Studies from the animal world show that offspring are more successful (in evolutionary sense) when a parent has a non-mating sibling. The non-mating sibling gets much of his genes passed down through the mating sibling, as they generally share many genes.
Thus, if there are multiple "gay genes", they *can* be passed down, at least part by part.
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Yes, there is the scientific interest of it. It will be a very long time before every gene and combination is understood, so from that aspect it's about impossible to prove that it's not genetic.
The field of Behavioral Genetics itself is not a single micron closer to proving Any of its specious crap today than it was when Joseph Mengele was using it as an excuse for his ghoulish experiments.
In the last 75 years it has produced Nothing that will stand real Scientific Scrutiny and Analysis.
That, is 'What Difference It Makes'.
But now, so long as the money keeps rolling in, Gays 'Different DNA/Genes' are responsible for their behavior.
And what happens when the political winds change?
Homosexuals were also exterminated by this junk science in the Nazi Camps.
That's a part of 'What Difference It Makes' at this time in history or any other time.
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And what happens when the political winds change?
Homosexuals were also exterminated by this junk science in the Nazi Camps.
That's a part of 'What Difference It Makes' at this time in history or any other time.
If you were not locked into your provincial western world thinking and looked around, you would see that gays are still be exterminated. The fact that you overlooked that brings back the question what difference does it make.
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If you were not locked into your provincial western world thinking and looked around, you would see that gays are still be exterminated. The fact that you overlooked that brings back the question what difference does it make.
Here Frank. In the U.S.
The way these scum sterilized 20,000 genetic defectives/feeble minded/undesireables in California.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/15/health/california-forced-sterilizations/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/15/health/california-forced-sterilizations/index.html)
What happens after we hit our 2nd or 3rd currency devaluation in the United States and Govt realizes it can't afford to toss anymore crumbs to the people to buy their acquiescence?
It may not be gays.
Next time it could be political conservatives.
Govt is funding this research. So Govt owns it.
Letting Govt buy a hammer like this one is a good idea, how?
Have we all so soon forgotten Margaret Sanger and her 'Human Weeds'?
All part and parcel of the same horror.
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If homosexuality was completely genetic, then all identical twins would be homosexuals. Studies of identical twins reveal that they are more likely to be gay than brothers or fraternal twins, but nowhere near 100 percent. Most studies range from 30-50 percent gay cocordance among identical twins. This suggests a genetic factor, but that sexual orientation is also due to non-genetic factors. By definition, everything non-genetic is "learned."
The hard science on this is unambiguous. The politics of it is another matter.
https://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/twinstudieswhatdotheyshowp40.php (https://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/twinstudieswhatdotheyshowp40.php)
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The field of Behavioral Genetics itself is not a single micron closer to proving Any of its specious crap today than it was when Joseph Mengele was using it as an excuse for his ghoulish experiments.
Ad hominem.
In reality, though they won't "prove" anything, they have made great strides. For example, the Minnesota Twin Family Study (MTFS) has shown that twins raised apart still have similar behaviors.
Do the genetics force behavior? No. But that doesn't mean they don't affect them.
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Here Frank. In the U.S.
The way these scum sterilized 20,000 genetic defectives/feeble minded/undesireables in California.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/15/health/california-forced-sterilizations/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/15/health/california-forced-sterilizations/index.html)
What happens after we hit our 2nd or 3rd currency devaluation in the United States and Govt realizes it can't afford to toss anymore crumbs to the people to buy their acquiescence?
It may not be gays.
Next time it could be political conservatives.
Govt is funding this research. So Govt owns it.
Letting Govt buy a hammer like this one is a good idea, how?
Have we all so soon forgotten Margaret Sanger and her 'Human Weeds'?
All part and parcel of the same horror.
People are going to find a "valid" reason to hate the people they do. The gov't does stuff all the time that is not bound in common sense much less solid scientific analysis.
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If homosexuality was completely genetic, then all identical twins would be homosexuals. Studies of identical twins reveal that they are more likely to be gay than brothers or fraternal twins, but nowhere near 100 percent. Most studies range from 30-50 percent gay cocordance among identical twins. This suggests a genetic factor, but that sexual orientation is also due to non-genetic factors. By definition, everything non-genetic is "learned."
The hard science on this is unambiguous. The politics of it is another matter.
https://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/twinstudieswhatdotheyshowp40.php (https://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/twinstudieswhatdotheyshowp40.php)
Yes, but you have conceded the basic argument, which is that there is a genetic aspect to being gay. The rest is simply filling in the prosaic details.
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Ad hominem.
In reality, though they won't "prove" anything, they have made great strides. For example, the Minnesota Twin Family Study (MTFS) has shown that twins raised apart still have similar behaviors.
Do the genetics force behavior? No. But that doesn't mean they don't affect them.
Proof please. If anything here is ad hominum it's Your assertions.
PROOF. Provide it.
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People are going to find a "valid" reason to hate the people they do. The gov't does stuff all the time that is not bound in common sense much less solid scientific analysis.
You got that right on the head.
Problem is allowing this stuff to cloak itself in science, which sounds better once Govt decides 'We Need A Program To Address This Problem.'
That is the point at which it becomes 'Katy Bar The Door.'
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How come laypersons just fling their opinions about scientific subjects back and forth, with no mention of the experiments, data etc.?
--DNA science is in its infancy
--DNA science is being aggressively pursued for medical applications
--DNA science is already considered proved such that it is used for criminal justice, paternity, genealogy, etc.
--The rate of discoveries is accelerating, as if often the case in scientific breakthroughs.
--The subset called Epigenetics deals with nature/nurture combinations whereby environmental changes, wind up changing DNA over time.
People actually study such things, beyond holding pre-conceived opinions.
You left out: DNA science is being aggressively pursued for political applications.
After all those decades of the effects of Margaret Sanger and her ilk, the eugenic aspect cannot be ignored. It may not show now, but it will--again.
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To Whose Benefit asks:
"If a person's Lesbian/Gay Behavior is in their DNA it will then be passed along to offspring, how ever many generations removed. Dominant/Recessive genes etc.
Since Homosexuals cannot biologically reproduce, then Why haven't those recessive genes already eliminated themselves out of the human gene pool?"
Did you read the post I put up here?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2846164/posts?page=67#67 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2846164/posts?page=67#67)
"A naturally-occuring aberration from the norm..."
(I guess no one else read it, either)
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Yes, but you have conceded the basic argument, which is that there is a genetic aspect to being gay. The rest is simply filling in the prosaic details.
I think the evidence is clear that there is indeed a genetic component, but not enough to say that all gays are "born that way," which is what most gay activists insist we believe.
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I think the evidence is clear that there is indeed a genetic component, but not enough to say that all gays are "born that way," which is what most gay activists insist we believe.
I can agree with that.
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If homosexuality was completely genetic, then all identical twins would be homosexuals. Studies of identical twins reveal that they are more likely to be gay than brothers or fraternal twins, but nowhere near 100 percent. Most studies range from 30-50 percent gay cocordance among identical twins. This suggests a genetic factor, but that sexual orientation is also due to non-genetic factors. By definition, everything non-genetic is "learned."
The hard science on this is unambiguous. The politics of it is another matter.
https://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/twinstudieswhatdotheyshowp40.php (https://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/twinstudieswhatdotheyshowp40.php)
No offense meant, but you and the study ignore in utero possibilities. Fraternal twins' pre-natal environment could be the "environment" piece, not just post-natal.
IOW, the following is false, if by learning you mean during rearing:
By definition, everything non-genetic is "learned."
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Proof please. If anything here is ad hominum it's Your assertions.
PROOF. Provide it.
It appears you do not understand the definition of "ad hominem".
Proof of what? I provided evidence.
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No offense meant, but you and the study ignore in utero possibilities. Fraternal twins' pre-natal environment could be the "environment" piece, not just post-natal.
IOW, the following is false, if by learning you mean during rearing:
Learning can occur any time. In psychology, anything not genetic is "learned." I suppose that includes in the womb. Every study I am aware of shows a continuum of concordance of homosexuality from low concordance among unrelated men, to higher concordance among brothers, then even higher among fraternal twins and finally highest among identical twins. That is exactly what one would expect if there was a genetic factor. But again, the fact that not even a majority (in most studies) of identical twins are concordant means that genetics is not the primary determinant.
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Learning can occur any time. In psychology, anything not genetic is "learned." I suppose that includes in the womb. Every study I am aware of shows a continuum of concordance of homosexuality from low concordance among unrelated men, to higher concordance among brothers, then even higher among fraternal twins and finally highest among identical twins. That is exactly what one would expect if there was a genetic factor. But again, the fact that not even a majority (in most studies) of identical twins are concordant means that genetics is not the primary determinant.
A better term would be "environmental" factors. For example, if twins were reared together in a home with formaldehyde-containing products, it's not "learned" but might affect them similarly.
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I think the evidence is clear that there is indeed a genetic component, but not enough to say that all gays are "born that way," which is what most gay activists insist we believe.
That's a reasonable statement. Most of the gays I know with whom I've talked to about the subject think they were always that way, but none are in the category of promiscuous, bathhouse-lifestyle gays. They all yearned to find their true love and settle down, and have been in stable relationships for decades. It is for these friends that I've become such an advocate for gay marriage - and why I could not ultimately stay in a church that insists they be labeled abominations.
It's best not to paint any group of people with the same broad brush (and yes, that goes for evangelical Christians too, and I admit I need to be less judgmental in that regard). Those who've suffered abuse and degradation are, I'd think, more likely to engage in promiscuous, self-hating behavior. And those who came from more stable environments likely want the same things many of the rest of us do. There's nothing more satisfying than at the end of the day than knowing that you've been loved, for then, for now, and (I trust and pray) forever.
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I think the evidence is clear that there is indeed a genetic component, but not enough to say that all gays are "born that way," which is what most gay activists insist we believe.
That sounds reasonable, and the genetic component may well affect the endocrine system. Hormonal variation could account for a lot, including behavioural traits and tendencies.
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That's a reasonable statement. Most of the gays I know with whom I've talked to about the subject think they were always that way, but none are in the category of promiscuous, bathhouse-lifestyle gays. They all yearned to find their true love and settle down, and have been in stable relationships for decades. It is for these friends that I've become such an advocate for gay marriage - and why I could not ultimately stay in a church that insists they be labeled abominations.
We recently had this discussion at the church I attend (Lutheran). The Evangelical Lutheran Church is moving more and more in the direction of accepting gays, whereas there are a number of local splinter groups joining a more doctrinaire organization called "Common Core" in order to announce themselves as more orthodox. We had a very contentious meeting last Sunday as to whether we should join Common Core.
The discussion was quite robust and thoughtful, with the orthodox types talking about the bible as our source for the rules of morality, and how if we accept the bible as the word of God, we have to regard homosexuality as a sin, just as all sex outside of marriage is a sin, and that gay marriage falls outside the bounds of the bible's definition of marriage. The liberals in the congregation talked about being on the wrong side of history, and compared this to slavery (quite a compelling argument in central Pennsylvania, in a congregation made up of the great grandchildren of abolitionists).
Because I am not a member of the congregation (although my wife and I have been going there every Sunday for over 6 months), the pastor asked us to count the votes. It was 60/40 in favor of the Common Core, which surprised me. I thought it would be higher.
Myself, I see both sides of this, and I don't choose my church based on this issue. My wife was Anglican before she moved to the USA, and she had a gay female pastor in her old church for many years, so she does not see how this is any big deal. I have sympathy for those who say we don't choose what is in the bible, it is fixed. It is rather unambiguous when it comes to this issue. On the other hand, I think I'd rather be in a church that was more inclusive, and I am certain Jesus Christ himself would as well.
I guess that is the underlying question: how would Christ regard homosexuals? I have no doubt He would love them. But would He regard them as in need of repentance? Or would He recognize gay love as "love" in the biblical sense. I simply don't know for certain. The Christ I understand in my heart would perform gay marriages. But the one I read about in the pages of the New Testament would not. That, for me, is my conundrum. Nonetheless, it doesn't matter what the majority of people in the church I attend think.
For me, my Christian morality is a personal journey, and I am not one to join groups. And so I will worship in pretty much any place I am welcome.
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We recently had this discussion at the church I attend (Lutheran). The Evangelical Lutheran Church is moving more and more in the direction of accepting gays, whereas there are a number of local splinter groups joining a more doctrinaire organization called "Common Core" in order to announce themselves as more orthodox. We had a very contentious meeting last Sunday as to whether we should join Common Core.
The discussion was quite robust and thoughtful, with the orthodox types talking about the bible as our source for the rules of morality, and how if we accept the bible as the word of God, we have to regard homosexuality as a sin, just as all sex outside of marriage is a sin, and that gay marriage falls outside the bounds of the bible's definition of marriage. The liberals in the congregation talked about being on the wrong side of history, and compared this to slavery (quite a compelling argument in central Pennsylvania, in a congregation made up of the great grandchildren of abolitionists).
Because I am not a member of the congregation (although my wife and I have been going there every Sunday for over 6 months), the pastor asked us to count the votes. It was 60/40 in favor of the Common Core, which surprised me. I thought it would be higher.
Myself, I see both sides of this, and I don't choose my church based on this issue. My wife was Anglican before she moved to the USA, and she had a gay female pastor in her old church for many years, so she does not see how this is any big deal. I have sympathy for those who say we don't choose what is in the bible, it is fixed. It is rather unambiguous when it comes to this issue. On the other hand, I think I'd rather be in a church that was more inclusive, and I am certain Jesus Christ himself would as well.
I guess that is the underlying question: how would Christ regard homosexuals? I have no doubt He would love them. But would He regard them as in need of repentance? Or would He recognize gay love as "love" in the biblical sense. I simply don't know for certain. The Christ I understand in my heart would perform gay marriages. But the one I read about in the pages of the New Testament would not. That, for me, is my conundrum. Nonetheless, it doesn't matter what the majority of people in the church I attend think.
For me, my Christian morality is a personal journey, and I am not one to join groups. And so I will worship in pretty much any place I am welcome.
@massadvj
I'm not sure I understand, if you believe the Bible is the word of God but then you don't believe in what it says? The Bible shows Jesus would treat all people with love but that doesn't mean he would condone sin.
The old testament defines marriage and establishes that sex is between 1 man and 1 woman in marriage. The NT affirms this. Its not about hate its about God setting up his law and us doing our best to follow them.
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@massadvj
I'm not sure I understand, if you believe the Bible is the word of God but then you don't believe in what it says? The Bible shows Jesus would treat all people with love but that doesn't mean he would condone sin.
The old testament defines marriage and establishes that sex is between 1 man and 1 woman in marriage. The NT affirms this. Its not about hate its about God setting up his law and us doing our best to follow them.
Amen....
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@massadvj
I'm not sure I understand, if you believe the Bible is the word of God but then you don't believe in what it says? The Bible shows Jesus would treat all people with love but that doesn't mean he would condone sin.
The old testament defines marriage and establishes that sex is between 1 man and 1 woman in marriage. The NT affirms this. Its not about hate its about God setting up his law and us doing our best to follow them.
I fully understand.
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That's a reasonable statement. Most of the gays I know with whom I've talked to about the subject think they were always that way,
Which is odd because most people don't believe that. Most people believe they started becoming romantically attracted after a certain age.
Saying that attractions are genetic is ridiculous. There is a genetic predisposition to be attracted to bikers or women in leggings? Not only that, attractions change over time.
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Next time it could be political conservatives.
Govt is funding this research. So Govt owns it.
Not conservatives but poor people, those who are a drain on society, uneducated, unemployed etc. People with money liberal and conservative alike will always be ok.
I fully predict one day third world countries who refuse to keep their populations in check will be flown over by the a special plane to sterilize the masses or it will be put in their water supply. Especially since robots are taking over and million of current working folks will be out of a job.
@To-Whose-Benefit?
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Thanks for your thoughtful response, massadvj
I have sympathy for those who say we don't choose what is in the bible, it is fixed. It is rather unambiguous when it comes to this issue. On the other hand, I think I'd rather be in a church that was more inclusive, and I am certain Jesus Christ himself would as well.
I guess that is the underlying question: how would Christ regard homosexuals? I have no doubt He would love them. But would He regard them as in need of repentance? Or would He recognize gay love as "love" in the biblical sense. I simply don't know for certain. The Christ I understand in my heart would perform gay marriages. But the one I read about in the pages of the New Testament would not. That, for me, is my conundrum.
This, for me, is the bottom line - what would Jesus do? And I cannot believe, will not believe, that He would consider homosexuals in monogamous, covenant relationships to be abominations. And that the Christ I understand in my heart would indeed perform gay marriages.
For now at least, I cannot reconcile my love for and understanding of Christ with membership in the Christian community. My faith is, for now, a solitary undertaking.
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I guess that is the underlying question: how would Christ regard homosexuals? I have no doubt He would love them. But would He regard them as in need of repentance? Or would He recognize gay love as "love" in the biblical sense. I simply don't know for certain. The Christ I understand in my heart would perform gay marriages. But the one I read about in the pages of the New Testament would not. That, for me, is my conundrum. Nonetheless, it doesn't matter what the majority of people in the church I attend think.
@massadvj
This is precisely how men will convince themselves to embrace the abomination that causes desolation.
The 'christ' in your heart cannot be the Christ. The two are diametrically opposed. In fact, if the Christ you see in the New Testament is different from the Christ you see in the old, then even in that is disparity. Confusion.
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Which is odd because most people don't believe that. Most people believe they started becoming romantically attracted after a certain age.
Saying that attractions are genetic is ridiculous. There is a genetic predisposition to be attracted to bikers or women in leggings? Not only that, attractions change over time.
Tell me about it....I have this uncontrollable attraction to Doritos. Not to worry...I'm seeking help. ^-^
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@massadvj
I'm not sure I understand, if you believe the Bible is the word of God but then you don't believe in what it says? The Bible shows Jesus would treat all people with love but that doesn't mean he would condone sin.
The old testament defines marriage and establishes that sex is between 1 man and 1 woman in marriage. The NT affirms this. Its not about hate its about God setting up his law and us doing our best to follow them.
God destroyed an entire city because of it's sexual immorality. I'd say He takes this pretty seriously.....
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And I cannot believe, will not believe, that He would consider homosexuals in monogamous, covenant relationships to be abominations.
Why just monogamous, covenant relationships? Do you think Jesus would hate people who chose to have an occasional fling? How intolerant.
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@massadvj
I'm not sure I understand, if you believe the Bible is the word of God but then you don't believe in what it says? The Bible shows Jesus would treat all people with love but that doesn't mean he would condone sin.
The old testament defines marriage and establishes that sex is between 1 man and 1 woman in marriage. The NT affirms this. Its not about hate its about God setting up his law and us doing our best to follow them.
Precisely, and well said.
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Precisely, and well said.
Yes, it is.
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Why just monogamous, covenant relationships? Do you think Jesus would hate people who chose to have an occasional fling? How intolerant.
Adultery is sinful. It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner. It is, in short, a betrayal.
A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO. Obviously, that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations. Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock. It certainly drove me away. But, then again, as some here point out, I'm not "good folks".
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Adultery is sinful. It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner. It is, in short, a betrayal.
A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO. Obviously, that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations. Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock. It certainly drove me away. But, then again, as some here point out, I'm not "good folks".
That's certainly an interesting way of looking at things, Jazzy. But, we all tend to want things the way we want them to be, whether right or wrong.
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Adultery is sinful. It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner. It is, in short, a betrayal.
A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO. Obviously, that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations. Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock. It certainly drove me away. But, then again, as some here point out, I'm not "good folks".
It's not bigotry that drove you away.
It's Scriptural truth that you decided not to accept.
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It's not bigotry that drove you away.
It's Scriptural truth that you decided not to accept.
One of my friends, who's been with his partner for over 20 years and is the salt of the earth, was rejected by his own family on the basis of that "Scriptural truth".
I've seen firsthand what damage is caused by this "Scriptural truth".
And you can forgive me for calling it by its rightful name.
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One of my friends, who's been with his partner for over 20 years and is the salt of the earth, was rejected by his own family on the basis of that "Scriptural truth".
I've seen firsthand what damage is caused by this "Scriptural truth".
And you can forgive me for calling it by its rightful name.
Sorry, friend, but God isn't a bigot.
What human beings do to ruin relationships because someone is doing something they don't approve of, is an entirely different thing than being obedient to all of Scripture, and treating sinners (that would be everyone) with love, but still recognizing the truth of the sin.
What you continue to do (as do all who reject God's truth) is that you look at sinful human beings for your evidence, and not at the Word of God, itself, God's character, and the person of Jesus Christ.
As long as you look at sinners to guide your opinions, you will believe what you feel like believing, as you reject Scriptural truth.
Fix your eyes on Jesus, and all this confusion and anger will end.
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Adultery is sinful. It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner. It is, in short, a betrayal.
A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO. Obviously, that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations. Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock. It certainly drove me away. But, then again, as some here point out, I'm not "good folks".
The purpose of marriage is symbolic of Christ and his Church. Male and female, with all of the ensuing descriptive parameters as ordained in Torah following. It is an image - A picture in so many dimensions as to be nearly infinite. Just as God, describing himself as Father, is an image.
Coloring is to be done within the lines, or the picture is ruined.
And no, you don't get to make your own picture, or it is in your image rather than God's.
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Thanks for your thoughtful response, massadvj
This, for me, is the bottom line - what would Jesus do? And I cannot believe, will not believe, that He would consider homosexuals in monogamous, covenant relationships to be abominations. And that the Christ I understand in my heart would indeed perform gay marriages.
.....
@Jazzhead
Fortunately we don't to have rely on rumor or guessing. We have historical documents from people that were there who can tell us what Jesus did and said. Those tell us he affirmed the OT writings in this regard. Marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman.
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Adultery is sinful. It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner. It is, in short, a betrayal.
A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO. Obviously, that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations. Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock. It certainly drove me away. But, then again, as some here point out, I'm not "good folks".
@Jazzhead
Adultry is sinful because it goes against Gods laws.
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One of my friends, who's been with his partner for over 20 years and is the salt of the earth, was rejected by his own family on the basis of that "Scriptural truth".
I've seen firsthand what damage is caused by this "Scriptural truth".
And you can forgive me for calling it by its rightful name.
Ahh, so it's the family's fault, eh?
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Adultery is sinful. It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner. It is, in short, a betrayal.
A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO. Obviously, that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations. Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock. It certainly drove me away. But, then again, as some here point out, I'm not "good folks".
Does that mean if two Orthodox Jews eat pork together it's Kosher?
**nononono*
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Ahh, so it's the family's fault, eh?
I decline to be part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty. I'd rather follow Christ outside the context of that community.
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I decline to be part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty. I'd rather follow Christ outside the context of that community.
@Jazzhead
By your rules Jesus is bigoted. Since he will sit in judgement on us and send us to hell I guess you'd call him cruel too.
I'd urge you to rethink your position. Seek some counseling from a qualified pastor not a feel good wannabe.
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Adultery is sinful. It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner. It is, in short, a betrayal.
A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO. Obviously, that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations. Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock. It certainly drove me away. But, then again, as some here point out, I'm not "good folks".
It's not driving good people away. There are no good people. Even Jesus said that. The problem comes when we decide things are "good" based on our own desires. It used to be that slavery was "good". Jim Crow was "good". That's because "good" is subjective.
Scripture is not subjective. It doesn't bend to our desires. It only drives away people who say "My ways are better than God's ways". It turns them over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh. They prefer the darkness where things can be hidden. When Scripture opposes their desires, they flee from it.
I was driven out of the church because I am a conservative. So I went to a church that doesn't shy away from the hard parts of Scripture like my previous church. It says what it says.
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I decline to be part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty. I'd rather follow Christ outside the context of that community.
I bet you are part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty. It just practices bigotry and advocates cruelty that you agree with.
Our local Unitarian church condemned churches that practice bigotry and advocate cruelty. IOW they were bigoted against people who disagree with them. They mocked and denigrated other churches that didn't practice their form of tolerance. When I pointed out their intolerance in their sermons they posted online, they took the sermons off-line.
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I decline to be part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty. I'd rather follow Christ outside the context of that community.
I don't care about the church necessarily - Though you paint with a broad brush.
It is the Word that I care about, which you inevitably must call bigoted and cruel... removing law, which removes both discernment and judgement... Which in turn, removes the need for a Savior. In which case, why do you follow at all, and where does it go? There is nothing left to follow.
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I don't care about the church necessarily - Though you paint with a broad brush.
It is the Word that I care about, which you inevitably must call bigoted and cruel... removing law, which removes both discernment and judgement... Which in turn, removes the need for a Savior. In which case, why do you follow at all, and where does it go? There is nothing left to follow.
goopo
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I had a friend who used to complain about drunk drivers all the time. Then he got a DUI. Suddenly, the police were jackboots who illegally detained people who weren't hurting anyone but just had a few drinks.
The law points out the duplicity of man. Grace is worthless to the man who isn't doing anything wrong.
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I don't care about the church necessarily - Though you paint with a broad brush.
It is the Word that I care about, which you inevitably must call bigoted and cruel... removing law, which removes both discernment and judgement... Which in turn, removes the need for a Savior. In which case, why do you follow at all, and where does it go? There is nothing left to follow.
He has never understood that a conservative first and foremost is a social conservative, meaning one has to have morality and is subject to specific rules which the Creator made for us to live by. After that, one uses that foundation to establish fiscal conservatism, or any other type of conservatism to complete what is called a 'conservative'.
If one does not establish the base foundation, the rest is useless.
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He has never understood that a conservative first and foremost is a social conservative, meaning one has to have morality and is subject to specific rules which the Creator made for us to live by. After that, one uses that foundation to establish fiscal conservatism, or any other type of conservatism to complete what is called a 'conservative'.
If one does not establish the base foundation, the rest is useless.
I agree that a conservative needs to have a firm moral grounding, and to try his/her level best to live in accordance with such moral grounding on a daily basis. The Church, can, of course, provide such a grounding.
But a "social conservative" has a specific political meaning, and includes the idea that the government enforce "Biblical" morality, including behavior that can objectively be seen as victimless. That's certainly not what many conservatives believe - many want government to be essentially limited, and to keep its nose out of the bedroom as well as the boardroom. The government, of course, has a role to play with respect to the redress of rights violations, and to administer the law fairly and in accordance with the principle of equal protection. But too many social conservatives, like Roy Moore, scoff at the notion of equal protection, at least with respect to folks unlike themselves. The Constitutional separation of church and state is one of the pillars of our Republic, and must be defended against those who would prefer a theocracy.
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It's very heartening to see that so many of us who disagree vociferously about smallish things are in almost complete agreement about the one big thing. ^-^
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I agree that a conservative needs to have a firm moral grounding, and to try his/her level best to live in accordance with such moral grounding on a daily basis. The Church, can, of course, provide such a grounding.
But a "social conservative" has a specific political meaning, and includes the idea that the government enforce "Biblical" morality, including behavior that can objectively be seen as victimless. That's certainly not what many conservatives believe - many want government to be essentially limited, and to keep its nose out of the bedroom as well as the boardroom. The government, of course, has a role to play with respect to the redress of rights violations, and to administer the law fairly and in accordance with the principle of equal protection. But too many social conservatives, like Roy Moore, scoff at the notion of equal protection, at least with respect to folks unlike themselves. The Constitutional separation of church and state is one of the pillars of our Republic, and must be defended against those who would prefer a theocracy.
There is no moral vacuum. This government, if it eschews the Laws of YHWH, is promoting another morality, and in that, another law. In the words of Bob Dylan, 'You've Got To Serve Somebody'.
Without the observance of YHWH's Law of Liberty, there will be no liberty at all.
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WHY is anyone studying this,and what difference does it make what they discover?
After all,you are NOT going to change your DNA if you don't like the test results.
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WHY is anyone studying this,and what difference does it make what they discover?
After all,you are NOT going to change your DNA if you don't like the test results.
it is a political agenda, SP. If certain types can be found to have 'no choice but to be immoral', then they become a protected class and the Bible becomes hate speech.
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WHY is anyone studying this,and what difference does it make what they discover?
After all,you are NOT going to change your DNA if you don't like the test results.
Well, if it is genetic, than they have an excuse that absolves them of choice (and responsibility) in their behaviour--at least in their mind.
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it is a political agenda, SP. If certain types can be found to have 'no choice but to be immoral', then they become a protected class and the Bible becomes hate speech.
If you say you are gay but you don't pass the "gay test", then what? Is it a choice?
There will never be a scientific reason to be gay for that reason. It's always going to be "I am gay because I feel gay and that is definitive science".
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Well, if it is genetic, than they have an excuse that absolves them of choice (and responsibility) in their behaviour--at least in their mind.
@Smokin Joe
Only to those who assume anybody OWES them an explanation for anything.
After all,who died and made any of you God?
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If you say you are gay but you don't pass the "gay test", then what? Is it a choice?
@Restored
ALL of you,PLEASE stop with this "gay" nonsense. These people are HOMOSEXUALS. They may be happy,they may be sad,or they may be anything else,but "gay" is NOT a sexual orientation.
I've known some homosexual people of both genders my whole life,and am even related to some of them,and I have a hard time thinking any group of people who are LESS happy than homosexuals. The whole "gay" thing is just a PR move by the homosexuals to make homosexuality to appear to be something desirable.
NOT that it is something shameful. Being ashamed of being a homosexual would rate right up there with being left-handed or color blind.
The ONLY people who have a choice of sexuality are bi-sexuals,and I suspect,but don't know for sure that most of them have an actual preference. Even then they had no choice about being bi-sexuals. The only choice that have is the choice of whom to participate or not participate in sexual activity with.
When you insist on playing the propaganda word games of the left,all you are doing is encouraging them to keep at it.
STOP!
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@Smokin Joe
Only to those who assume anybody OWES them an explanation for anything.
After all,who died and made any of you God?
First off I'm not The Almighty, and He has spoken. You may choose to believe what you will, but I believe he so thoroughly destroyed two cities over this that their remains still have not been found.
But those of us who recognize that, are constantly hearing people who behave unnaturally (because that really isn't what those parts are designed/adapted to do, and there are some considerable negative anatomical and physiological effects for acts which do nothing to benefit the species) not only want the rest of us to celebrate their deviated behaviour, but want to justify it to us as some sort of unavoidable part of their nature.
We really don't have to ask, they won't shut up.
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@Smokin Joe
Only to those who assume anybody OWES them an explanation for anything.
After all,who died and made any of you God?
You take this liberty thing pretty serious...
You are correct of course, Americans died for our liberties. –and our right to be free from Big Brother and nosey neighbors.
:patriot:
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My country tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died!
Land of the Pilgrim's pride!
From every mountain side,
Let freedom ring!
My native country, thee,
Land of the noble free,
Thy name I love.
I love thy rocks and rills,
Thy woods and templed hills;
My heart with rapture fills
Like that above.
Let music swell the breeze,
And ring from all the trees
Sweet freedom's song.
Let mortal tongues awake;
Let all that breathe partake;
Let rocks their silence break,
The sound prolong.
Our father's God to, Thee,
Author of liberty,
To Thee we sing.
Long may our land be bright
With freedom's holy light;
Protect us by Thy might,
Great God, our King!
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You take this liberty thing pretty serious...
You are correct of course, Americans died for our liberties. –and our right to be free from Big Brother and nosey neighbors.
:patriot:
@aligncare
Thank you! It is refreshing to hear someone say that.
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My country tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died!
Land of the Pilgrim's pride!
From every mountain side,
Let freedom ring!
My native country, thee,
Land of the noble free,
Thy name I love.
I love thy rocks and rills,
Thy woods and templed hills;
My heart with rapture fills
Like that above.
Let music swell the breeze,
And ring from all the trees
Sweet freedom's song.
Let mortal tongues awake;
Let all that breathe partake;
Let rocks their silence break,
The sound prolong.
Our father's God to, Thee,
Author of liberty,
To Thee we sing.
Long may our land be bright
With freedom's holy light;
Protect us by Thy might,
Great God, our King!
@roamer_1
You do know that's just a song that has no more meaning than "Lola" or any other song,right?
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Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep:
O hear us when we cry to thee
For those in peril on the sea.
O Christ, the Lord of hill and plain
O'er which our traffic runs amain
By mountain pass or valley low;
Wherever, Lord, thy brethren go,
Protect them by thy guarding hand
From every peril on the land.
O Spirit, whom the Father sent
To spread abroad the firmament;
O Wind of heaven, by thy might
Save all who dare the eagle's flight,
And keep them by thy watchful care
From every peril in the air.
O Trinity of love and power,
Our brethren shield in danger's hour;
From rock and tempest, fire and foe,
Protect them whereso'er they go,
Thus evermore shall rise to thee
Glad praise from air and land and sea.
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Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep:
O hear us when we cry to thee
For those in peril on the sea.
O Christ, the Lord of hill and plain
O'er which our traffic runs amain
By mountain pass or valley low;
Wherever, Lord, thy brethren go,
Protect them by thy guarding hand
From every peril on the land.
O Spirit, whom the Father sent
To spread abroad the firmament;
O Wind of heaven, by thy might
Save all who dare the eagle's flight,
And keep them by thy watchful care
From every peril in the air.
O Trinity of love and power,
Our brethren shield in danger's hour;
From rock and tempest, fire and foe,
Protect them whereso'er they go,
Thus evermore shall rise to thee
Glad praise from air and land and sea.
One of my favorite hymns. Loaded with depth and meaning.
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@aligncare
Thank you! It is refreshing to hear someone say that.
You’re welcome. Being a drummer myself I always liked the aphorism ‘march to the beat of a different drummer.’
I believe we have the right to live life as we see fit, harming no one, unswayed by the judgment of others, but always pursuing our life’s passions. I get the sense that describes you, too.
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You’re welcome. Being a drummer myself I always liked the aphorism ‘march to the beat of a different drummer.’
I believe we have the right to live life as we see fit, harming no one, unswayed by the judgment of others, but always pursuing our life’s passions. I get the sense that describes you, too.
@aligncare
It does. In fact,you did a better job of articulating it that I have ever done.
Seems like too many people have a hard time grasping the basic FACT that if we grant the government the authority to control the private lives of ONE group of citizens,or even DEMAND they have these powers,they also have the authority or power to control the private lives of ALL of us.
And yes,this DOES include how you worship God,and even what God is determined to be the One True God.
We are either ALL free,or NONE of us are free.
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I was walking home from church one day, and I passed a house on fire. There were people screaming for help, and I was about to move the obstruction blocking the door, but then I remembered the morning's sermon: Be Christlike.
So I refused to save them unless they met my conditions. Some didn't, so I let them burn.
Is that really how it is?
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I agree that a conservative needs to have a firm moral grounding, and to try his/her level best to live in accordance with such moral grounding on a daily basis. The Church, can, of course, provide such a grounding.
But a "social conservative" has a specific political meaning, and includes the idea that the government enforce "Biblical" morality, including behavior that can objectively be seen as victimless. That's certainly not what many conservatives believe - many want government to be essentially limited, and to keep its nose out of the bedroom as well as the boardroom. The government, of course, has a role to play with respect to the redress of rights violations, and to administer the law fairly and in accordance with the principle of equal protection. But too many social conservatives, like Roy Moore, scoff at the notion of equal protection, at least with respect to folks unlike themselves. The Constitutional separation of church and state is one of the pillars of our Republic, and must be defended against those who would prefer a theocracy.
Your base remains on sand as you use human-dictated morality to establish it, not God's declared Word.
The Founders knew exactly what base to use, and it is rock-solid.
As such, you have no base.
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The Founders knew exactly what base to use, and it is rock-solid.
Yes, Thomas Jefferson was so proud of the separation of church and state, and the freedom to choose a religion (not just Christianity), that he chose it as one of the three things to be mentioned on his memorial stone.
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Well, if it is genetic, then it has the high probability of being detected in early childhood and TREATED via gene therapy. This could lead to the elimination of those that carry the mutation and treatment for those afflicted before sexuality is established. In a generation or two, perhaps even the total elimination of homosexuality.
.... think about it.
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I was walking home from church one day, and I passed a house on fire. There were people screaming for help, and I was about to move the obstruction blocking the door, but then I remembered the morning's sermon: Be Christlike.
So I refused to save them unless they met my conditions. Some didn't, so I let them burn.
Is that really how it is?
No. You would try to save them but they would keep running back into the burning building. That's how it works.
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Yes, Thomas Jefferson was so proud of the separation of church and state, and the freedom to choose a religion (not just Christianity), that he chose it as one of the three things to be mentioned on his memorial stone.
Yes, he has a solid memorial of his death. Wonder why that little aspect did not find its way into the document he helped construct?
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Well, if it is genetic, then it has the high probability of being detected in early childhood and TREATED via gene therapy. This could lead to the elimination of those that carry the mutation and treatment for those afflicted before sexuality is established. In a generation or two, perhaps even the total elimination of homosexuality.
.... think about it.
I have thought about it, a lot.
Peril Resides In The Promise of Gene Editing
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2017/12/15/genomics/?utm_term=.64bc119d5929 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2017/12/15/genomics/?utm_term=.64bc119d5929)
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I agree that a conservative needs to have a firm moral grounding, and to try his/her level best to live in accordance with such moral grounding on a daily basis. The Church, can, of course, provide such a grounding.
But a "social conservative" has a specific political meaning, and includes the idea that the government enforce "Biblical" morality, including behavior that can objectively be seen as victimless. That's certainly not what many conservatives believe - many want government to be essentially limited, and to keep its nose out of the bedroom as well as the boardroom. The government, of course, has a role to play with respect to the redress of rights violations, and to administer the law fairly and in accordance with the principle of equal protection. But too many social conservatives, like Roy Moore, scoff at the notion of equal protection, at least with respect to folks unlike themselves. The Constitutional separation of church and state is one of the pillars of our Republic, and must be defended against those who would prefer a theocracy.
@Jazzhead
WELL STATED!
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There is no moral vacuum. This government, if it eschews the Laws of YHWH, is promoting another morality, and in that, another law. In the words of Bob Dylan, 'You've Got To Serve Somebody'.
Without the observance of YHWH's Law of Liberty, there will be no liberty at all.
@roamer_1
And the prime difference between you and the Taliban is......?
Do NOT try to claim that Christianity is any less brutal. History proves that to be a lie. Dictatorships dictate,and there ain't no such critter as a Dictatorship where the people live free.
On the other hand,this IS a free country,and if YOU or anyone else CHOOSES to live according to cult laws instead of Constitutional laws,that is your right. You just don't have the right to DEMAND the rest of us live according to them.
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it is a political agenda, SP. If certain types can be found to have 'no choice but to be immoral', then they become a protected class and the Bible becomes hate speech.
@IsailedawayfromFR
The Bible pretty much IS hate speech.
Unless of course you think damning people to an eternity of burning in Hells Fire for having sex,not attending cult meetings,getting drunk,etc,etc,etc is a kind and loving thing to do.
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Well, if it is genetic, than they have an excuse that absolves them of choice (and responsibility) in their behaviour--at least in their mind.
@Smokin Joe
That's true,but WHY does any adult have to justify legal behavior to anyone in a free country? That is the question that should be asked first.
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Well, if it is genetic, then it has the high probability of being detected in early childhood and TREATED via gene therapy. This could lead to the elimination of those that carry the mutation and treatment for those afflicted before sexuality is established. In a generation or two, perhaps even the total elimination of homosexuality.
.... think about it.
@Taxcontrol
And HOW would that be a bad thing,even in the minds of the vast majority of the homosexuals,who want nothing as much as they want to be accepted as what we laughingly call "normal"?
WHY do you think they are making such an effort to be considered to be "mainstream"? I suspect life is a living hell for most teen homosexuals.
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I have thought about it, a lot.
Peril Resides In The Promise of Gene Editing
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2017/12/15/genomics/?utm_term=.64bc119d5929 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2017/12/15/genomics/?utm_term=.64bc119d5929)
@To-Whose-Benefit?
You are 100 percent correct. That is a prime example of WHY government must be monitored and controlled by an informed citizenry.
And it's not just because of this subject. Seems like most new technology has the ability to be abused by those in charge,and this is why government needs to be kept on a short chain.
It is also up to use to make sure we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are STILL members of religious cults today that allow their children to die rather than have them receive life-saving medical treatment "because it is Gawd's will!"
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@To-Whose-Benefit?
You are 100 percent correct. That is a prime example of WHY government must be monitored and controlled by an informed citizenry.
And it's not just because of this subject. Seems like most new technology has the ability to be abused by those in charge,and this is why government needs to be kept on a short chain.
It is also up to use to make sure we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are STILL members of religious cults today that allow their children to die rather than have them receive life-saving medical treatment "because it is Gawd's will!"
@sneakypete
All the way back to fire Pete.
Use it to keep from freezing to death, or use it to burn someone else to death.
"Govt is like fire, a dangerous servant and a terrible master."
George Washington
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@IsailedawayfromFR
The Bible pretty much IS hate speech.
Unless of course you think damning people to an eternity of burning in Hells Fire for having sex,not attending cult meetings,getting drunk,etc,etc,etc is a kind and loving thing to do.
The simple thing to think about is whether there is a Creator or not. If there is, then the Bible is indeed hate speech, but since it is His Bible, it is His hate speech. One adhers to it or faces the consequences.
If, however, one believes there is no Creator, then one has no problem, as there are no morals that concern you, and BTW, there is no Constitution governing this country anyway as it was made subservient to God.
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@roamer_1
And the prime difference between you and the Taliban is......?
Do NOT try to claim that Christianity is any less brutal. History proves that to be a lie. Dictatorships dictate,and there ain't no such critter as a Dictatorship where the people live free.
On the other hand,this IS a free country,and if YOU or anyone else CHOOSES to live according to cult laws instead of Constitutional laws,that is your right. You just don't have the right to DEMAND the rest of us live according to them.
Right. I hear that one all the time... But the most brutal places on earth are those where the state deems religion to be false. In fact, I can think of no more benign place than the Christian West, when it comes to tolerance. In fact, we've gone past the art form and turned it into a fault.
And your absurd statement regarding my DEMANDS - Utter pap.
The demand is for a unified and singular moral code - ONE right and wrong. Anything else is impossible to govern.
That moral code, for as long as we have been in existence, has been the Judeo-Christian Ethic. That is what our laws and precedence are written for. That is what was here when we were free, and the further we slide from it, the more our liberty slips away.
Relative Morality will be our doom.
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@IsailedawayfromFR
The Bible pretty much IS hate speech.
Unless of course you think damning people to an eternity of burning in Hells Fire for having sex,not attending cult meetings,getting drunk,etc,etc,etc is a kind and loving thing to do.
LOL! Maybe you should read it sometime and find out what it actually does say.
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The simple thing to think about is whether there is a Creator or not. If there is, then the Bible is indeed hate speech, but since it is His Bible, it is His hate speech. One adhers to it or faces the consequences.
If, however, one believes there is no Creator, then one has no problem, as there are no morals that concern you, and BTW, there is no Constitution governing this country anyway as it was made subservient to God.
@IsailedawayfromFR
You are assuming of course that there IS an "Almighty God",but he STILL needed men to scribble his thoughts on clay tablets and goat skin paper.
IF there is a God,I suspect he/she/it/whatever is more than capable of letting his/etc thoughts be known directly,and IF God exists,he is laughing his ass off at the antics of his "ant farm",amazed that humans are so foolish as to accept the scribbling's of long-dead charlatans and opportunists seeking power are swallowed whole by so many,or just doesn't give a damn one way or the other because this was all nothing more than a high school science display for him.
There is a 99 percent chance the whole thing is nothing more than smoke and mirrors,though. The old lame "there MUST be a God or how could the world have been created?" explanation as "proof" of his existence immediately shuts down questioning when you ask them "If that is true,who created God?"
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Right. I hear that one all the time... But the most brutal places on earth are those where the state deems religion to be false. In fact, I can think of no more benign place than the Christian West, when it comes to tolerance. In fact, we've gone past the art form and turned it into a fault.
And your absurd statement regarding my DEMANDS - Utter pap.
The demand is for a unified and singular moral code - ONE right and wrong. Anything else is impossible to govern.
That moral code, for as long as we have been in existence, has been the Judeo-Christian Ethic. That is what our laws and precedence are written for. That is what was here when we were free, and the further we slide from it, the more our liberty slips away.
Relative Morality will be our doom.
Another great post @roamer_1 .
But the truth of what you say has a difficult time passing through a sealed mind and a hate-filled heart.
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@roamer_1
And the prime difference between you and the Taliban is......?
Do NOT try to claim that Christianity is any less brutal. History proves that to be a lie. Dictatorships dictate,and there ain't no such critter as a Dictatorship where the people live free.
On the other hand,this IS a free country,and if YOU or anyone else CHOOSES to live according to cult laws instead of Constitutional laws,that is your right. You just don't have the right to DEMAND the rest of us live according to them.
History proves that anyone with power and wealth will, sooner or later, use it to nefarious ends.
Power Corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Despite your ranting about the largest and most powerful organizations of Christianity, there are no secular organizations which have been free of corruption, abuse of power, and when possible subjugation and abuse of people. That doesn't make it right, but there are many in those same organizations who have done, and continue to do good as well.
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Is this dumb thread still going?
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@roamer_1
And the prime difference between you and the Taliban is......?
He doesn't have any affect on other people's lives and the Taliban killed mass amounts of people?
And the prime difference between you and an over-dramatic 8th grade girl is......?
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Apparently, it is.
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IF there is a God,I suspect he/she/it/whatever is more than capable of letting his/etc thoughts be known directly,and IF God exists,he is laughing his ass off at the antics of his "ant farm",amazed that humans are so foolish as to accept the scribbling's of long-dead charlatans and opportunists seeking power are swallowed whole by so many,or just doesn't give a damn one way or the other because this was all nothing more than a high school science display for him.
Translation: There is no God but here is what He is like.
Brilliant. It's why I left the Atheist church. Too many atheists sat around obsessing and hating on a God that they said didn't exist. That's not even logical.
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Is this dumb thread still going?
'Fraid so. :crying:
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Apparently, it is.
Thank you for your efforts to keep it going. You are the wind beneath our wings
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@roamer_1
And the prime difference between you and the Taliban is......?
Do NOT try to claim that Christianity is any less brutal. History proves that to be a lie. Dictatorships dictate,and there ain't no such critter as a Dictatorship where the people live free.
On the other hand,this IS a free country,and if YOU or anyone else CHOOSES to live according to cult laws instead of Constitutional laws,that is your right. You just don't have the right to DEMAND the rest of us live according to them.
@sneakypete
History clearly shows Muslims take the bacon when it comes to brutality. They have for 1400 years. Christians have done some bad things but its not systemic.
To even make that argument is just plain silly.
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Thank you for your efforts to keep it going. You are the wind beneath our wings
Whatever
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Right. I hear that one all the time... But the most brutal places on earth are those where the state deems religion to be false. In fact, I can think of no more benign place than the Christian West, when it comes to tolerance. In fact, we've gone past the art form and turned it into a fault.
@roamer_1
One of the biggest piles of crap I have ever heard in my entire life.
What you are doing is focusing on MAYBE the last 50 years in the west,while totally ignoring thousands of years of brutality,torture,and murder at the very hands of the people proclaimed as the most pious.
AND.....,ONLY because enough people got tired of that crap that laws were passed limiting the power of organized religion. Which people like you protest against on a daily basis as you call for a "return to our spiritual roots".
And your absurd statement regarding my DEMANDS - Utter pap.
The demand is for a unified and singular moral code - ONE right and wrong. Anything else is impossible to govern
.
OK,no problem. Let's toss yours aside and use mine. After all,yours wants a return to the "good old days",where the Bible is the Law of the Land. I DO give MOST of you credit for choosing the "NEW AND IMPROVED WORD OF GAWD!" instead of the Old Testament,but the true fundies will be working hard and promoting a return to the "Original Word of Gawd" the very next day.
That moral code, for as long as we have been in existence, has been the Judeo-Christian Ethic. That is what our laws and precedence are written for. That is what was here when we were free, and the further we slide from it, the more our liberty slips away.
One of the biggest lies ever told,and the saddest part is you believe it yourself.
Relative Morality will be our doom.
Yeah,causen hit worked so gud in the past,huh?
Tell ya what. If you want to fondle snakes,institute religious courts,etc,etc,etc,you just have right at it for you and yours. Leave me out of it.
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LOL! Maybe you should read it sometime and find out what it actually does say.
@roamer_1
I DID read it. By the time I was in the 5th grade. And rejected it.
Granted,I didn't bother to have a cult leader decode it for me to tell me what it REALLY meant instead of what it stated. My bad.
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Another great post @roamer_1 .
But the truth of what you say has a difficult time passing through a sealed mind and a hate-filled heart.
@musiclady
I resent the implication. I subscribe to no religion.
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@roamer_1
I DID read it. By the time I was in the 5th grade. And rejected it.
ROTFLMAO!!!
Granted,I didn't bother to have a cult leader decode it for me to tell me what it REALLY meant instead of what it stated. My bad.
Ahh... would you care to venture a guess which 'cult leader' I follow?
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ROTFLMAO!!!
Ahh... would you care to venture a guess which 'cult leader' I follow?
@roamer_1
There is only a difference in the minds of the cult followers. At least once this lead to a religious war that lasted for over 150 years,and probably resulted in a higher percentage of deaths than any other war in western history.
A little thing you may have heard of called "The Reformation".
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History clearly shows Muslims take the bacon when it comes to brutality. They have for 1400 years. Christians have done some bad things but its not systemic.
To even make that argument is just plain silly.
Not only that Christianity didn't kill anyone. Governmental religion killed lots of people including Jesus.
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@roamer_1
There is only a difference in the minds of the cult followers. At least once this lead to a religious war that lasted for over 150 years,and probably resulted in a higher percentage of deaths than any other war in western history.
A little thing you may have heard of called "The Reformation".
(http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH_C_MORTACRACIES.GIF)
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH_C_MORTACRACIES.GIF (http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH_C_MORTACRACIES.GIF)
What has been the top killing thing of all time? .... Godless pushing governments. The past 110 years surpass the previous 19 centuries added together.
Chinese communists-76,702,000
Soviet Union-61,911,000
German Nazis-17,000,000
Chinese Nationalists-10,214,000
Japanese militarists-5,890,000
China(Mao Soviets 1923-49)-3,466,000
Cambodia-2,035,000
Turkey-1,883,000
Vietnam-1,670,000(most after the war by communist)
North Korea-1,663,000
Poland-1,585,000
Pakistan-1,503,000
Mexico(1900-20)-1,417,000
Yugoslavia-1,072,000
Russia(1900-17)-1,066,000
______________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0218GkAGbnU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0218GkAGbnU)
____________________
War is the least of our problems... 20th century had about 35 million killed via war... yet that just scratches the chart of total deaths (200 to 270 million)....
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/WSJ.TAB1.GIF (http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/WSJ.TAB1.GIF)
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@IsailedawayfromFR
You are assuming of course that there IS an "Almighty God",but he STILL needed men to scribble his thoughts on clay tablets and goat skin paper.
IF there is a God,I suspect he/she/it/whatever is more than capable of letting his/etc thoughts be known directly,and IF God exists,he is laughing his ass off at the antics of his "ant farm",amazed that humans are so foolish as to accept the scribbling's of long-dead charlatans and opportunists seeking power are swallowed whole by so many,or just doesn't give a damn one way or the other because this was all nothing more than a high school science display for him.
There is a 99 percent chance the whole thing is nothing more than smoke and mirrors,though. The old lame "there MUST be a God or how could the world have been created?" explanation as "proof" of his existence immediately shuts down questioning when you ask them "If that is true,who created God?"
Limiting God to what You believe He will or won't do? You really need to get back to your 5th grade class and what the definition of God is that you rejected.
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IF there is a God,I suspect he/she/it/whatever is more than capable of letting his/etc thoughts be known directly
That makes sense to me. I'd rather seek the counsel of God directly than by means of a man-made organization that insists I become a tribal member and proselytize. This has, of course, been a question for debate for thousands of years - can one know God directly, or must one's knowledge be filtered through the priest or other learned scholars who've parsed the texts of ancient books supposedly authored or inspired by God?
Well, what books has God authored recently? It seems He's retired from that game. Except maybe He's inside of each of us, willing to counsel anyone with a mind willing to look past morally indefensible dogma for an objective view of what is right and what is wrong.
I am not going to condemn my monogamous neighbors as perverts and abominations on the say-so of an ancient book. I know my neighbors, I know their values, I can see with my own eyes that they are good people. Why should I let the Bible turn me against them? That isn't God speaking to me; this is a modern-day tribe of the sinful and imperfect insisting that I follow their edict notwithstanding that IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. Why did God give me the ability to think and reason and then forbid me from concluding that a stray passage in an ancient book just might be wrong?
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Why did God give me the ability to think and reason and then forbid me from concluding that a stray passage in an ancient book just might be wrong?
Unless you have a videotape, it would be hard to prove or disprove anything from 2-3,000 years ago. So you either believe it or you don't. But dismissing parts because you disagree with them is illogical. If it says it, you must accept that it says it. Whether you personally disagree is another matter and perfectly acceptable. But I find most people tend to read it and then say it doesn't exist or that it doesn't really say what it says. That's cult behavior.
God ordered Saul to kill the Amalekite children. That's what it says. If you want to create a different god that doesn't kill the Amalekite children, that's up to you but it isn't Scriptural. Jesus talked about Hell. If you want to create a savior that doesn't do Hell, that's understandable but not Scriptural. That's how Rob Bell got into trouble. He created a god in his own image.
I am not going to condemn my monogamous neighbors as perverts and abominations on the say-so of an ancient book.
People are not abominations. Actions are abominations.
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Unless you have a videotape, it would be hard to prove or disprove anything from 2-3,000 years ago. So you either believe it or you don't. But dismissing parts because you disagree with them is illogical. If it says it, you must accept that it says it. Whether you personally disagree is another matter and perfectly acceptable. But I find most people tend to read it and then say it doesn't exist or that it doesn't really say what it says. That's cult behavior.
God ordered Saul to kill the Amalekite children. That's what it says. If you want to create a different god that doesn't kill the Amalekite children, that's up to you but it isn't Scriptural. Jesus talked about Hell. If you want to create a savior that doesn't do Hell, that's understandable but not Scriptural. That's how Rob Bell got into trouble. He created a god in his own image.
People are not abominations. Actions are abominations.
And, besides we are so much smarter and wiser than those ancient writers.
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@roamer_1
There is only a difference in the minds of the cult followers. At least once this lead to a religious war that lasted for over 150 years,and probably resulted in a higher percentage of deaths than any other war in western history.
A little thing you may have heard of called "The Reformation".
Nah... Mot even close. The godless Communists are way ahead on that account... Add another hundred million more or so in the insistence on abortion since the rise of godless 3rd-way communism in the West (as Christendom recedes) and nothing touches the godless (just in the last three quarters of a century or so).
And all that is the outright murder of citizenry. The Reformation was largely war between nations.
Again, I invite you to identify my particular cult leader - Should be an easy task for such an erudite mind, To imagine that mind, capable enough at a mere ten years of age, to solve and resolve a tome of such complexity that it has boggled the minds of centuries and centuries (aeons really) of the very best and most educated theologians and scholars - The work of their whole lives dedicated to the task... It is a wonder.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are in the presence of greatness.
LOL! Really Pete, I'm done with you on this topic. I love ya pal, but your bias in this is only surpassed by your incredible ignorance in the subject matter. It shows, and it's boring. But where it begs offense is in the bare fact that in the last decade or so, I have stood shoulder to shoulder with you personally, in many a debate defending Federalism and Libertarianism, and still you would accuse me of desiring theocracy. That's cold, man, and it's bullshit.
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Not only that Christianity didn't kill anyone. Governmental religion killed lots of people including Jesus.
@Restored
VERY good point,and one I had completely overlooked. In fact,Jesus was killed because he was the head man of a new religion that was competing with the established religion in power.
Some things will never change.
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(http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH_C_MORTACRACIES.GIF)
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH_C_MORTACRACIES.GIF (http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH_C_MORTACRACIES.GIF)
What has been the top killing thing of all time? .... Godless pushing governments. The past 110 years surpass the previous 19 centuries added together.
Chinese communists-76,702,000
Soviet Union-61,911,000
German Nazis-17,000,000
Chinese Nationalists-10,214,000
Japanese militarists-5,890,000
China(Mao Soviets 1923-49)-3,466,000
Cambodia-2,035,000
Turkey-1,883,000
Vietnam-1,670,000(most after the war by communist)
North Korea-1,663,000
Poland-1,585,000
Pakistan-1,503,000
Mexico(1900-20)-1,417,000
Yugoslavia-1,072,000
Russia(1900-17)-1,066,000
______________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0218GkAGbnU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0218GkAGbnU)
____________________
War is the least of our problems... 20th century had about 35 million killed via war... yet that just scratches the chart of total deaths (200 to 270 million)....
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/WSJ.TAB1.GIF (http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/WSJ.TAB1.GIF)
@Sighlass
You are conveniently ignoring how many people were murdered in each era as a percentage OF THE POPULATION AT THAT TIME.
Or if you want to play YOUR game,I would like to point out that the highest claimed fatality rate in all of history was due to a Christian murdering own Christian and literal brother,when 25 percent of the existing worldwide population was murdered by a Christian.
Ever heard of Cain and Abel?
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Limiting God to what You believe He will or won't do? You really need to get back to your 5th grade class and what the definition of God is that you rejected.
@IsailedawayfromFR
Is God based as a brain fart a better fit for you?
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That makes sense to me. I'd rather seek the counsel of God directly than by means of a man-made organization that insists I become a tribal member and proselytize. This has, of course, been a question for debate for thousands of years - can one know God directly, or must one's knowledge be filtered through the priest or other learned scholars who've parsed the texts of ancient books supposedly authored or inspired by God?
@Jazzhead
That would first require the CMMFIC's of each religion on the planet to get together and agree on WHO and WHAT "God" is,even before they started murdering each other over what his demands are.
Good luck with that one.
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VERY good point,and one I had completely overlooked. In fact,Jesus was killed because he was the head man of a new religion that was competing with the established religion in power.
Some things will never change.
He was killed for opposing the government. The religious leaders accused him of inciting a rebellion against Rome. Pilate shot down that idea but wanted to avoid trouble. He later ridiculed the religious authorities by posting a sign over Jesus' head that read "King of the Jews".
The Roman church didn't kill people for opposing the faith. They killed them for opposing the church's contrived narratives and for opposing the church government. Translating the Bible into form that could be read by the masses was a capital crime. In short, insurrection against the church. Cults maintain their authority by controlling the narratives and suppressing any disagreement, especially if the data is true.
If you get 10 Methodists in a room to discuss religion, we start disagreeing immediately with the church and each other.
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And, besides we are so much smarter and wiser than those ancient writers.
@Sanguine
Yeah,we are. The typical western 3rd grader of today is wiser than any of them.
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@Sanguine
Yeah,we are. The typical western 3rd grader of today is wiser than any of them.
Hmmm. How many 3rd graders do you know? Not many would be my guess.
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Nah... Mot even close. The godless Communists are way ahead on that account... Add another hundred million more or so in the insistence on abortion since the rise of godless 3rd-way communism in the West (as Christendom recedes) and nothing touches the godless (just in the last three quarters of a century or so).
Miss the words "higher percentage of deaths"?
And all that is the outright murder of citizenry. The Reformation was largely war between nations.
You can't possibly believe that crap. It was a war against the Catholic Church by those who didn't want to be Catholic,and didn't think it was right to be tortured to death for not being a Catholic. Every nation in the west at that time had a Catholic "shadow government" that had the right and the power to arrest anyone at any time and put them on trial in a church court. Even royalty weren't immune to arrest,torture,and execution.
Again, I invite you to identify my particular cult leader -
Yeah,just like he is different from every other cult leader. Nice try.
Look,if you want to believe in superstitious nonsense if that is what makes you happy. You have every right to do so as an American citizen. You just don't have the right to demand the rest of live according to your beliefs or face punishment.
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He was killed for opposing the government. The religious leaders accused him of inciting a rebellion against Rome. Pilate shot down that idea but wanted to avoid trouble. He later ridiculed the religious authorities by posting a sign over Jesus' head that read "King of the Jews".
The Roman church didn't kill people for opposing the faith. They killed them for opposing the church's contrived narratives and for opposing the church government. Translating the Bible into form that could be read by the masses was a capital crime. In short, insurrection against the church. Cults maintain their authority by controlling the narratives and suppressing any disagreement, especially if the data is true.
If you get 10 Methodists in a room to discuss religion, we start disagreeing immediately with the church and each other.
Explain the Inquisitions, in Spain, France and Italy. I understand non-Catholics (Jews, Protestants) were persecuted, some killed, many fled or falsely converted.
Explain the Christian Protestant church-state under Cromwell. I think lives were lost.
I admit to not holding Christianity on a pedestal, of non-violence.
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Please stick to the topic and leave off the religious wars.
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@Restored
VERY good point,and one I had completely overlooked. In fact,Jesus was killed because he was the head man of a new religion that was competing with the established religion in power.
Some things will never change.
It wasn't a new religion until Jesus was resurrected, so, nope. Jesus was killed because that was the plan.
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It wasn't a new religion until Jesus was resurrected, so, nope. Jesus was killed because that was the plan.
@Smokin Joe
You can't be serious. Jesus already had his disciples,and was already promoting his father/God.
Is it possible you don't know a damn thing about the roots of your own religion?
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Hey, remember earlier today when Mod1 said, "Leave off the religious wars"? He meant it. Knock it off.
Final warning, get back on topic "New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight Men".
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@Smokin Joe
You can't be serious. Jesus already had his disciples,and was already promoting his father/God.
Is it possible you don't know a damn thing about the roots of your own religion?
Until he was resurrected, he was regarded as a prophet, a healer, and by a few as the Son of God, but coming back is what the religion is based on. Others had healed the sick and done other miracles, but none of them had beaten death itself.
"I am the resurrection and the life.", was something without serious weight until the tomb was empty again.
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All right people. For the record, the Amelikites WERE abominable people. As were several dozen other tribes that carried the seed of the Nephilim . The origination of homosexuality came with the rise of pagan worship. I believe there is no genetic predisposition to be homosexual. It is ALL environmental factors. There are a huge number of people who claim to be homosexual out of defiance to their true nature. Defiant to God and His plan. Or they are just plain stupid. They can go flock themselves.
Read Romans chapter one.
There is an alarming number of people in this world today who really do think "fat, stupid, and lazy" is the way to go through life. And there is an equally alarming number of people who agree, or at least acquiesce to the idea.
Get your shit together. You can't save the world. But you can save yourselves.
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Ya'll hear a funny noise?
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@Sighlass
You are conveniently ignoring how many people were murdered in each era as a percentage OF THE POPULATION AT THAT TIME.
Or if you want to play YOUR game,I would like to point out that the highest claimed fatality rate in all of history was due to a Christian murdering own Christian and literal brother,when 25 percent of the existing worldwide population was murdered by a Christian.
Ever heard of Cain and Abel?
Nope... not even close... Over 50%...
In proportion to its population, Cambodia underwent a human catastrophe unparalleled in this century. Out of a 1970 population of probably near 7,100,0001 Cambodia probably lost slightly less than 4,000,000 people to war, rebellion, man-made famine, genocide, politicide, and mass murder. The vast majority, almost 3,300,000 men, women, and children (including 35,000 foreigners), were murdered within the years 1970 to 1980 by successive governments and guerrilla groups. Most of these, a likely near 2,400,000, were murdered by the communist Khmer Rouge.
The Khmer Rouge were fanatical communists who wanted to establish the most advanced and purist form of communism in the world.....
Source: https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP4.HTM (https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP4.HTM)
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Ya'll hear a funny noise?
Sort of a tortured scream?
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It could be the sound of a man banging his head against a wall, trying to make a headache go away.
But this DNA thing is garbage because the only way we know these men are gay is that they told us.
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It could be the sound of a man banging his head against a wall, trying to make a headache go away.
But this DNA thing is garbage because the only way we know these men are gay is that they told us.
No, that's not necessarily true. There are objective measures as well.
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No, that's not necessarily true. There are objective measures as well.
I am still all ears.
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In recent years, scientists have found that sexual orientation is related to a wide range of physical features. Among other things, studies have reported that sexual orientation is linked to facial symmetry, finger length ratios (specifically, the length of the second digit compared to the fourth digit), as well as which hand is dominant. A new study published in the Journal of Sex Research suggests that height is one additional physical feature we should add to this growing list, at least for men....https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2016/2/18/study-gay-men-are-shorter-on-average-compared-to-straight-men (https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2016/2/18/study-gay-men-are-shorter-on-average-compared-to-straight-men)
If the term sexual orientation is used to describe a pattern of arousal and attraction1, then genital assessment has high face validity for studying sexual orientation in men. Neuroimaging, however, may have a variety of methodological advantages, including the potential for greater sensitivity in detecting motivational responses to stimuli that are psychologically significant yet unlikely to result in noticeable physiological changes9 or even subjective responses10. Even with briefly-presented erotic pictures, fMRI has demonstrated a high degree of sensitivity and specificity in measuring sexual orientation11,12,13....https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41314 (https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41314)
Can Sex Differences in Science Be Tied to the Long Reach of Prenatal Hormones? Brain Organization Theory, Digit Ratio (2D/4D), and Sex Differences in Preferences and Cognition
Jeffrey Valla and Stephen J. Ceci
Author information â–º Copyright and License information â–º
The publisher's final edited version of this article is available at Perspect Psychol Sci
See other articles in PMC that cite the published article.
Go to:
Abstract
Brain organization theory posits a cascade of physiological and behavioral changes initiated and shaped by prenatal hormones. Recently, this theory has been associated with outcomes including gendered toy preference, 2D/4D digit ratio, personality characteristics, sexual orientation, and cognitive profile (spatial, verbal, and mathematical abilities). We examine the evidence for this claim, focusing on 2D/4D and its putative role as a biomarker for organizational features that influence cognitive abilities/interests predisposing males toward mathematically and spatially intensive careers. Although massive support exists for early brain organization theory overall, there are myriad inconsistencies, alternative explanations, and outright contradictions that must be addressed while still taking the entire theory into account. Like a fractal within the larger theory, the 2D/4D hypothesis mirrors this overall support on a smaller scale while likewise suffering from inconsistencies (positive, negative, and sex-dependent correlations), alternative explanations (2D/4D related to spatial preferences rather than abilities per se), and contradictions (feminine 2D/4D in men associated with higher spatial ability). Using the debate over brain organization theory as the theoretical stage, we focus on 2D/4D evidence as an increasingly important player on this stage, a demonstrative case in point of the evidential complexities of the broader debate, and an increasingly important topic in its own right....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230041/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230041/)
Hand asymmetry in heterosexual and homosexual men and women: relationship to 2D:4D digit ratios and other sexually dimorphic anatomical traits.
Martin JT1, Puts DA, Breedlove SM.
Author information
Abstract
Sexual differentiation leads to the development of distinctive anatomical structures (e.g., gonads and genitalia); it also produces less obvious anatomical shifts in brain, bones, muscles, etc. This study is a retrospective analysis of growth patterns in the hands in relation to sex and sexual orientation. Using data from three published studies, we analyzed four hand traits in adults: hand width, hand length, second digit length, and fourth digit length. Using these measurements, we derived estimates of trait laterality (directional asymmetry or DA) and developmental instability (fluctuating asymmetry or FA). High FA is a putative indicator of interference with the cellular and molecular mechanisms regulating development. We focused on how these derived variables were related to sex, sexual orientation, and putative markers of early sex steroid exposure (e.g., the second to fourth digit ratio or 2D:4D). Our data point to three principal conclusions. First, individual differences in DA appeared to be a major source of variation in the 2D:4D ratio. The 2D:4D ratios of heterosexual men differed depending on whether they had leftward or rightward DA in their digits. Homosexual women showed the same pattern. Individuals with leftward DA in both digits had lower 2D:4D ratios than those with rightward DA. This effect was absent in heterosexual women and homosexual men. This led to sex differences in 2D:4D and sexual orientation differences in 2D:4D in the leftward DA group, but not in the rightward DA group. The second conclusion was that DA in digit length and hand width varied with sex; women were more likely to have rightward asymmetry than men. Homosexual men and women were generally sex typical in DA. The third conclusion was that homosexuality is unlikely to be a result of increased developmental instability. Although limited in scope, the present evidence actually suggests that homosexuals have lower FA than heterosexuals, raising the question of whether the positive fitness components associated with low FA may contribute to selection that maintains homosexuality in a population....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161017 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161017)
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Thanks for posting. The handful of gays I’ve worked with in the medical field had behavioral attributes and physical characteristics that screamed “I’m gay!†Everything from effeminate appearance to high voice.
So let me get this straight. Homosexuality is just learned behavior? Is the fashion and decorating sense exhibited by gays also learned? Or, do men innately know how to combine fabric and wall colors to create a cozy setting, and also know exactly where to place the ottoman?
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In recent years, scientists have found that sexual orientation is related to a wide range of physical features. Among other things, studies have reported that sexual orientation is linked to facial symmetry, finger length ratios (specifically, the length of the second digit compared to the fourth digit), as well as which hand is dominant. A new study published in the Journal of Sex Research suggests that height is one additional physical feature we should add to this growing list, at least for men....https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2016/2/18/study-gay-men-are-shorter-on-average-compared-to-straight-men (https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2016/2/18/study-gay-men-are-shorter-on-average-compared-to-straight-men)
If the term sexual orientation is used to describe a pattern of arousal and attraction1, then genital assessment has high face validity for studying sexual orientation in men. Neuroimaging, however, may have a variety of methodological advantages, including the potential for greater sensitivity in detecting motivational responses to stimuli that are psychologically significant yet unlikely to result in noticeable physiological changes9 or even subjective responses10. Even with briefly-presented erotic pictures, fMRI has demonstrated a high degree of sensitivity and specificity in measuring sexual orientation11,12,13....https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41314 (https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41314)
Can Sex Differences in Science Be Tied to the Long Reach of Prenatal Hormones? Brain Organization Theory, Digit Ratio (2D/4D), and Sex Differences in Preferences and Cognition
Jeffrey Valla and Stephen J. Ceci
Author information â–º Copyright and License information â–º
The publisher's final edited version of this article is available at Perspect Psychol Sci
See other articles in PMC that cite the published article.
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Abstract
Brain organization theory posits a cascade of physiological and behavioral changes initiated and shaped by prenatal hormones. Recently, this theory has been associated with outcomes including gendered toy preference, 2D/4D digit ratio, personality characteristics, sexual orientation, and cognitive profile (spatial, verbal, and mathematical abilities). We examine the evidence for this claim, focusing on 2D/4D and its putative role as a biomarker for organizational features that influence cognitive abilities/interests predisposing males toward mathematically and spatially intensive careers. Although massive support exists for early brain organization theory overall, there are myriad inconsistencies, alternative explanations, and outright contradictions that must be addressed while still taking the entire theory into account. Like a fractal within the larger theory, the 2D/4D hypothesis mirrors this overall support on a smaller scale while likewise suffering from inconsistencies (positive, negative, and sex-dependent correlations), alternative explanations (2D/4D related to spatial preferences rather than abilities per se), and contradictions (feminine 2D/4D in men associated with higher spatial ability). Using the debate over brain organization theory as the theoretical stage, we focus on 2D/4D evidence as an increasingly important player on this stage, a demonstrative case in point of the evidential complexities of the broader debate, and an increasingly important topic in its own right....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230041/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230041/)
Hand asymmetry in heterosexual and homosexual men and women: relationship to 2D:4D digit ratios and other sexually dimorphic anatomical traits.
Martin JT1, Puts DA, Breedlove SM.
Author information
Abstract
Sexual differentiation leads to the development of distinctive anatomical structures (e.g., gonads and genitalia); it also produces less obvious anatomical shifts in brain, bones, muscles, etc. This study is a retrospective analysis of growth patterns in the hands in relation to sex and sexual orientation. Using data from three published studies, we analyzed four hand traits in adults: hand width, hand length, second digit length, and fourth digit length. Using these measurements, we derived estimates of trait laterality (directional asymmetry or DA) and developmental instability (fluctuating asymmetry or FA). High FA is a putative indicator of interference with the cellular and molecular mechanisms regulating development. We focused on how these derived variables were related to sex, sexual orientation, and putative markers of early sex steroid exposure (e.g., the second to fourth digit ratio or 2D:4D). Our data point to three principal conclusions. First, individual differences in DA appeared to be a major source of variation in the 2D:4D ratio. The 2D:4D ratios of heterosexual men differed depending on whether they had leftward or rightward DA in their digits. Homosexual women showed the same pattern. Individuals with leftward DA in both digits had lower 2D:4D ratios than those with rightward DA. This effect was absent in heterosexual women and homosexual men. This led to sex differences in 2D:4D and sexual orientation differences in 2D:4D in the leftward DA group, but not in the rightward DA group. The second conclusion was that DA in digit length and hand width varied with sex; women were more likely to have rightward asymmetry than men. Homosexual men and women were generally sex typical in DA. The third conclusion was that homosexuality is unlikely to be a result of increased developmental instability. Although limited in scope, the present evidence actually suggests that homosexuals have lower FA than heterosexuals, raising the question of whether the positive fitness components associated with low FA may contribute to selection that maintains homosexuality in a population....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161017 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161017)
'Conclusions' are not FACTS. They are Inferences.
There's nothing slam dunk definite in any of these papers.
Theory, May Have, Suggests?
Junk Science papers are crawling in these terms.
All they're good for is submitting to funders as 'Research Is Promising' BS on Grant Applications.
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Thanks for posting. The handful of gays I’ve worked with in the medical field had behavioral attributes and physical characteristics that screamed “I’m gay!†Everything from effeminate appearance to high voice.
These same types now easily can call themselves 'transgender' so they alone can decide whether they are girls or boys.
I just watched a girls' volleyball match between Florida and Nebraska in which Florida had one of these types. It was a man's build and features but he/she/it called himself/herself/itself a girl.
Absolutely not fair in womens' sports to have a biological man competing with women who physiologically are built weaker.
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These same types now easily can call themselves 'transgender' so they alone can decide whether they are girls or boys.
I just watched a girls' volleyball match between Florida and Nebraska in which Florida had one of these types. It was a man's build and features but he/she/it called himself/herself/itself a girl.
Absolutely not fair in womens' sports to have a biological man competing with women who physiologically are built weaker.
"Transgender" - the perfect ruse for the mindless left that allows a less than talented male athlete become a star because he competes against women. (Or for a pervert male to go into a girls' bathroom or locker room)
The left is so stinking stupid. *****rollingeyes*****
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Theory, May Have, Suggests?
Junk Science papers are crawling in these terms.
As does good science. But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".
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@Sanguine
The 2D:4D stuff has fascinated me, as have things like the hair whorl direction, etc.
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"Transgender" - the perfect ruse for the mindless left that allows a less than talented male athlete become a star because he competes against women. (Or for a pervert male to go into a girls' bathroom or locker room)
The left is so stinking stupid. *****rollingeyes*****
Really?? Looks to me as if they have been mostly whipping our azzes for most of the last century or so!
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As does good science. But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".
Wouldn't know, not going to dive into that one, since I haven't actually READ the papers themselves.
Unlike this BS of Homosexual Behavior being genetic.
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No really. They don't take a genetic sample and then ask the person if they are gay. They ask the person. If they answer in the affirmative, they take that as the prime evidence.
There is no "born gay" evidence. It is a personal opinion that seeks data to support it. That's not science. Science would say to someone "I know you think you are gay but the data says otherwise". That will never be allowed.
You may genetically and physically be a male. But if you are pretending you are a female, today's "science" says you are a female.
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No really. They don't take a genetic sample and then ask the person if they are gay. They ask the person. If they answer in the affirmative, they take that as the prime evidence.
There is no "born gay" evidence. It is a personal opinion that seeks data to support it. That's not science. Science would say to someone "I know you think you are gay but the data says otherwise". That will never be allowed.
You may genetically and physically be a male. But if you are pretending you are a female, today's "science" says you are a female.
And that is NOT science! It is appeasement.
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Really?? Looks to me as if they have been mostly whipping our azzes for most of the last century or so!
Yeah, they have.
And that certainly indicates the level of stupidity that the right has, doesn't it? :shrug:
The left has controlled universities, they have controlled science (which is now pseudo-science), they have controlled the language and changed meanings of words and phrases, they have controlled the media..... they have controlled everything.
But allowing men into women's bathrooms is stupid, and allowing boys to compete in girls' sports is stupid, and the people who allow this to be done are stupid.
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As does good science. But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".
You 'Suppose'???
I am not a Physicist. Therefore I am NOT Qualified to offer any opinion on Gravitational Theory one way or the other.
I do not have the requisite mathematical knowledge to even Begin to understand those papers.
All one needs to read and understand the papers taking down the Theory that genes are responsible for any Behaviors is a solid grasp of the English Language, which my detractors here either don't appear to have, or are just too comfy with being too lazy to even Try to read them.
The fault with the Behavioral Genetics assumption is in the intentional distortion, rigging of the experiments themselves, designed to arrive at the Authors/Junk Researcher's pre-determined outcomes.
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As does good science. But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".
There is nothing political about gravity. Therein lies the difference.
When the leftist agenda is driven by what "science" says, and the money for "research" is given by the leftists in government, science is no longer science.
It's politics.
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Yeah, they have.
And that certainly indicates the level of stupidity that the right has, doesn't it? :shrug:
The left has controlled universities, they have controlled science (which is now pseudo-science), they have controlled the language and changed meanings of words and phrases, they have controlled the media..... they have controlled everything.
But allowing men into women's bathrooms is stupid, and allowing boys to compete in girls' sports is stupid, and the people who allow this to be done are stupid.
Yes to all and that would be us! I note that we now have a man in the Whitehouse who seems to be desperately trying to reverse a lot of that and many so-called conservatives continue to fight him at every turn.
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.....
'Conclusions' are not FACTS. They are Inferences.
There's nothing slam dunk definite in any of these papers.
Theory, May Have, Suggests?
Junk Science papers are crawling in these terms.
All they're good for is submitting to funders as 'Research Is Promising' BS on Grant Applications.
No sir; "settled science" is an oxymoron. That's how global warming alarmists see science, but that's not how it really works. You're not actually buying that twaddle are you?
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These same types now easily can call themselves 'transgender' so they alone can decide whether they are girls or boys.
I just watched a girls' volleyball match between Florida and Nebraska in which Florida had one of these types. It was a man's build and features but he/she/it called himself/herself/itself a girl.
Absolutely not fair in womens' sports to have a biological man competing with women who physiologically are built weaker.
No - transgender is a whole different thing, and a clear form of mental illness.
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Yes to all and that would be us! I note that we now have a man in the Whitehouse who seems to be desperately trying to reverse a lot of that and many so-called conservatives continue to fight him at every turn.
It's odd that he's trying, since he doesn't believe in any of the things we do, but I guess it's better for him to be a hypocritical liberal than an in your face liberal like he was before the election..... :shrug:
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@Sanguine
The 2D:4D stuff has fascinated me, as have things like the hair whorl direction, etc.
It is fascinating. Did you know that the whorls thing applies in dogs too?
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It is fascinating. Did you know that the whorls thing applies in dogs too?
Gay dogs?! ;-)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwxM6-CiBZ0#)
Interesting page on genetic myths: http://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mythhairwhorl.html (http://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mythhairwhorl.html)
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No sir; "settled science" is an oxymoron. That's how global warming alarmists see science, but that's not how it really works. You're not actually buying that twaddle are you?
Excuse me @Sanguine, but I don't remember using the term 'settled science'.
As for Global Warming Alarmists, and my 'buying that twaddle' Where in the hell did That one come from?
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You 'Suppose'???
I am not a Physicist. Therefore I am NOT Qualified to offer any opinion on Gravitational Theory one way or the other.
I do not have the requisite mathematical knowledge to even Begin to understand those papers.
All one needs to read and understand the papers taking down the Theory that genes are responsible for any Behaviors is a solid grasp of the English Language, which my detractors here either don't appear to have, or are just too comfy with being too lazy to even Try to read them.
The fault with the Behavioral Genetics assumption is in the intentional distortion, rigging of the experiments themselves, designed to arrive at the Authors/Junk Researcher's pre-determined outcomes.
@Suppressed @To-Whose-Benefit? @musiclady
Kinda interesting that you picked the theory of gravity. I'm not expert but then again is anyone? Can anyone explain gravity? Why it works, how it works, where it works? Nearly everything we know is due to observation. Newton tried but it wasn't until Einstein that we had a real theory. The theory of relativity, or spacetime, is proposed as what causes gravity.
Here on earth if I drop a rock it falls to the ground. Nearly everywhere else in the universe it would stay exactly where I released it. At least if our observations are correct. But then our observations are based on assumptions and the observation of light particles that are billions of years old in some cases. Observations and a lot of fancy math that could be tossed on its ear with the next observation.
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My SIL recently had major surgery, for cancer. Then follow up treatment using chemotherapy.
They ALSO did DNA testing, since actual medical science is using genetics for understanding and for potential treatments.
In fact medical science is probably the single biggest future application of DNA/genetic science.
I suppose some here would claim DNA/genetics is hogwash.
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@Suppressed @To-Whose-Benefit? @musiclady
Kinda interesting that you picked the theory of gravity. I'm not expert but then again is anyone? Can anyone explain gravity? Why it works, how it works, where it works? Nearly everything we know is due to observation. Newton tried but it wasn't until Einstein that we had a real theory. The theory of relativity, or spacetime, is proposed as what causes gravity.
Here on earth if I drop a rock it falls to the ground. Nearly everywhere else in the universe it would stay exactly where I released it. At least if our observations are correct. But then our observations are based on assumptions and the observation of light particles that are billions of years old in some cases. Observations and a lot of fancy math that could be tossed on its ear with the next observation.
Yup, the essential difference being that the math in it is harder to fudge.
If a contrary Theory is advanced and the person behind it Lies in their equations, or glosses over other extent equations/ignores them, it's pretty easy for people who Do understand the math to catch that lie and call them on it.
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My SIL recently had major surgery, for cancer. Then follow up treatment using chemotherapy.
They ALSO did DNA testing, since actual medical science is using genetics for understanding and for potential treatments.
In fact medical science is probably the single biggest future application of DNA/genetic science.
I suppose some here would claim DNA/genetics is hogwash.
Don't go conclusion jumping.
Real Medical science does have a place for DNA/Genetics in it.
Sickle Cell Anemia?
Behaviorism is not Medical. It is Political.
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Yup, the essential difference being that the math in it is harder to fudge.
If a contrary Theory is advanced and the person behind it Lies in their equations, or glosses over other extent equations/ignores them, it's pretty easy for people who Do understand the math to catch that lie and call them on it.
@To-Whose-Benefit?
One article I read said Einstein didn't have the math to understand it properly. Thats my excuse for not even trying to understand the math involved. I mean if its over his head then what hope do we mere mortals have. :)
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@To-Whose-Benefit?
One article I read said Einstein didn't have the math to understand it properly. Thats my excuse for not even trying to understand the math involved. I mean if its over his head then what hope do we mere mortals have. :)
In This We Are Agreed! :)
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There is nothing political about gravity. Therein lies the difference.
Where are you seeing politics in Valla and Ceci (2011)? What's your criticism of the study? (This is the study @To-Whose-Benefit? mocked for using the word "theory".)
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Don't go conclusion jumping.
Real Medical science does have a place for DNA/Genetics in it.
Sickle Cell Anemia?
Behaviorism is not Medical. It is Political.
Okay, then what is your OPINION regarding the field of Epigenetics?
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Where are you seeing politics in Valla and Ceci (2011)? What's your criticism of the study? (This is the study @To-Whose-Benefit? mocked for using the word "theory".)
Clue this.
https://inequality.cornell.edu/research/grant-opportunities-in-the-social-sciences/
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Excuse me @Sanguine, but I don't remember using the term 'settled science'.
As for Global Warming Alarmists, and my 'buying that twaddle' Where in the hell did That one come from?
Look, you don't have to believe anything you don't want to believe. You asked for information, I gave it to you and you dismissed it.
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Okay, then what is your OPINION regarding the field of Epigenetics?
Depends on whether you're talking medicine or politics.
Behaviors are the province of Legislatures, not Doctors.
Behaviors are either prohibited by law or they are not.
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Don't go conclusion jumping.
Real Medical science does have a place for DNA/Genetics in it.
Sickle Cell Anemia?
Behaviorism is not Medical. It is Political.
Exactly! Men and women ARE the same. Our behaviors are just environmentally determined. DNA has nothing to do with it.
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Look, you don't have to believe anything you don't want to believe. You asked for information, I gave it to you and you dismissed it.
Belief is the province of Religion, not Medicine.
Look at where this thread went off the cliff as soon it devolved into posters arguing their Beliefs and Opinions.
It took 2 Moderators to jump in and defacto promise to lock it down if everyone didn't knock off the Religious Flame War.
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Exactly! Men and women ARE the same. Our behaviors are just environmentally determined. DNA has nothing to do with it.
Thank You! A thousand times over. Thank You!
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Depends on whether you're talking medicine or politics.
Behaviors are the province of Legislatures, not Doctors.
Behaviors are either prohibited by law or they are not.
Nuns once slapped left handers on their hands, to make them write right-handed.
Yet their "handedness" is in their genetics. Or is that a behavior?
You have brushed by epigenetics, without demonstrating that you understand it, BTW.
Everybody that seriously studies genetics and DNA, remarks at how young, early we are in the science of it. (How little we know, versus how much remains to be learned)
You claim a remarkable competency, for a subject which most admit to knowing just a little about.
You strike me as somebody that would have scoffed at the Wright Brothers.
"Man will never fly" since it is a behavior, and we already know all there needs to be learned about those things.
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Belief is the province of Religion, not Medicine.
Look at where this thread went off the cliff as soon it devolved into posters arguing their Beliefs and Opinions.
It took 2 Moderators to jump in and defacto promise to lock it down if everyone didn't knock off the Religious Flame War.
Ah, but, I didn't introduce any religious beliefs; I merely presented you with facts. Facts that you reject. With an almost religious fervor.
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Exactly! Men and women ARE the same. Our behaviors are just environmentally determined. DNA has nothing to do with it.
@Sanguine
Say what?
huh
bullpucky
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@Sanguine
Say what?
huh
bullpucky
Open that door and you empower Doctors to act as Judge and Jury on a whole host of Behaviors.
Then when you drag in the Psych crowd you add Executioner to the list.
http://psychroachesadverseevent.blogspot.com/ (http://psychroachesadverseevent.blogspot.com/)
https://ssristories.org/ (https://ssristories.org/)
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Judge, Jury, and Executioner
http://www.ect.org/resources/machines.html (http://www.ect.org/resources/machines.html)
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Open that door and you empower Doctors to act as Judge and Jury on a whole host of Behaviors.
Then when you drag in the Psych crowd you add Executioner to the list.
http://psychroachesadverseevent.blogspot.com/ (http://psychroachesadverseevent.blogspot.com/)
https://ssristories.org/ (https://ssristories.org/)
Doctors already are.
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@Sanguine
Say what?
huh
bullpucky
Of course it's bullpucky. Men and women are different and it's in their genes.
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Nuns once slapped left handers on their hands, to make them write right-handed.
Yet their "handedness" is in their genetics. Or is that a behavior?
You have brushed by epigenetics, without demonstrating that you understand it, BTW.
Everybody that seriously studies genetics and DNA, remarks at how young, early we are in the science of it. (How little we know, versus how much remains to be learned)
You claim a remarkable competency, for a subject which most admit to knowing just a little about.
You strike me as somebody that would have scoffed at the Wright Brothers.
"Man will never fly" since it is a behavior, and we already know all there needs to be learned about those things.
Show me 1 single Behavior that Behavioral geneticists have ever 'cured'. Just 1.
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You strike me as somebody that would have scoffed at the Wright Brothers.
"Man will never fly" since it is a behavior, and we already know all there needs to be learned about those things.
Same ones who claim people will never love past 120 years because the Bible says so. Well I believe there are documentated cases right now of 115 or 116 year olds.
When the time comes when we can splice out gene defects/disease or the aging gene and people live to 125-130 on a regular basis their retort will be God Willed It
@truth_seeker
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And this 'Science' is not in its infancy.
In ancient Sparta infants who were born less than perfect were hurled to their death from cliff tops.
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Show me 1 single Behavior that Behavioral geneticists have ever 'cured'. Just 1.
This stuff is brand new in the history of man. Give it another 15-20 years. We still don't have the common cold cured.
@To-Whose-Benefit?
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No - transgender is a whole different thing, and a clear form of mental illness.
Well, I saw a mentally ill person acting like a woman on a woman's basketball team.
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In ancient Sparta infants who were born less than perfect were hurled to their death from cliff tops.
..and in today's era we are mortified over such actions.
100 years from now people like you will be looked upon as witch burners.
@To-Whose-Benefit?
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Same ones who claim people will never love past 120 years because the Bible says so. Well I believe there are documentated cases right now of 115 or 116 year olds.
When the time comes when we can splice out gene defects/disease or the aging gene and people live to 125-130 on a regular basis their retort will be God Willed It
@truth_seeker
The Bible doesn't say people will never live past 120. In fact there are several cases where people in the bible are much much older, say 900 years old. Do I understand it? no but my understanding is not a requirement for the bible to be true.
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Copperhead Democrats in the 19th Century advanced the argument that Slavery was a Positive Good because the Slaves/Blacks were incapable of life on its own terms.
Being a Slave was for their own good.
Behaviors were genetic.
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The Bible doesn't say people will never live past 120. In fact there are several cases where people in the bible are much much older, say 900 years old. Do I understand it? no but my understanding is not a requirement for the bible to be true.
Do you believe in 900 year old people, in ancient times?
I am fairly certain there is no scientific evidence of such a phenomenon. They are able to estimate the ages of those people from the bones.
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..and in today's era we are mortified over such actions.
100 years from now people like you will be looked upon as witch burners.
@To-Whose-Benefit?
I love having my point deliberately turned inside out and stood on its head to have me saying the Opposite of what I said.
Want to try again?
Then, in Sparta, at a very young age boys were sent out to kill a wolf.
If they failed, the wolf cleansed their substandard genes out of the pool.
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All right people. For the record, the Amelikites WERE abominable people. As were several dozen other tribes that carried the seed of the Nephilim . The origination of homosexuality came with the rise of pagan worship. I believe there is no genetic predisposition to be homosexual. It is ALL environmental factors. There are a huge number of people who claim to be homosexual out of defiance to their true nature. Defiant to God and His plan. Or they are just plain stupid. They can go flock themselves.
Read Romans chapter one.
There is an alarming number of people in this world today who really do think "fat, stupid, and lazy" is the way to go through life. And there is an equally alarming number of people who agree, or at least acquiesce to the idea.
@bigheadfred
You can believe whatever you want if you don't mind being wrong,but I have even seen a homosexual dog. It belonged to the wife of a friend of mine,and was the most disgusting animal I have ever seen. I don't think I need to describe what happened when a female dog came into heat.
Granted,I THINK the number of true hard-wired genetic homosexuals is greatly inflated for political purposes. MUCH rarer than the number of true hard-wired genetic heterosexuals.
There seems to be a lot of bi-sexuals running around,though.
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Copperhead Democrats in the 19th Century advanced the argument that Slavery was a Positive Good because the Slaves/Blacks were incapable of life on its own terms.
Being a Slave was for their own good.
Behaviors were genetic.
Turns out they were wrong.
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Thank you for making an excellent point. Are you a human being? Or are you an animal?
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Sex behavior perpetuates the species. Sexual and asexual reproduction is a universal constant, a biological imperative of life. Engaging in sex, unless you’re part of a monastic order or have some medical condition, is not a choice. Our DNA was precisely designed for replication and we are compelled – and I’ll say damn well need – to engage in sex for that to happen.
I don’t pretend to understand same sex attraction but I know that sex behavior is the mechanism for DNA replication – species gotta gets its freak on – and whatever difference (or abnormality if you prefer) that’s involved in the development and growth of same sex attracted people must lie somewhere in their DNA.
It’s the genome, stupid.
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Thank you for making an excellent point. Are you a human being? Or are you an animal?
@bigheadfred
I am human,therefore I am an animal.
And you?
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@bigheadfred
I am human,therefore I am an animal.
And you?
Foxy lady.
I'm having you for dinner.
Do you give into your carnal instincts? Or do you have the UNDERSTANDING to resist?
I really have to ask you. In all of your life and all you have seen, you can't incude the possibility of Intelligent Design?
In-flight movie. We have chicken, or we have fish.
In complete answer to your question. Human. Resistance towards ascendency is the new normal. I have, will, and will continue to stand in the face of the unnnatural. I seek ascendancy. But if you insist on animal, so be it. Mean it if you bring it to my house. There will be no mercy.
In ALL cultures-choose unconnected Amazon tribes-- they all have the concept of some sort of Divinity. Why is that? Apparently without any of the inflences of "our" recorded history.
Because by their HUMAN nature the "understand; and acknowledge that Divinity.
Homosexuality defies the Law of Creation. HIS rules. Follow them or GTFO.
Don't give in. I'm not going to.
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I'm having you for dinner.
@bigheadfred
No,you're not. I am a raging heterosexual.
Do you give into your carnal instincts? Or do you have the UNDERSTANDING to resist?
What a strange question. I'm not a Masochist,so why would I resist doing something I would want to do?
I really have to ask you. In all of your life and all you have seen, you can't incude the possibility of Intelligent Design?
I see very little intelligence. Mostly herd animals with 2 legs.
In complete answer to your question. Human. Resistance towards ascendency is the new normal. I have, will, and will continue to stand in the face of the unnnatural. I seek ascendancy. But if you insist on animal, so be it. Mean it if you bring it to my house. There will be no mercy.
What,I'm supposed to be skeered because you have Gawd on yore side? What does your God think about your suggesting you would kill and eat me because that would be the proper thing for a follower of the Prince of Peace to do?
In ALL cultures-choose unconnected Amazon tribes-- they all have the concept of some sort of Divinity. Why is that? Apparently without any of the inflences of "our" recorded history.
Because people are afraid of death,and will blindly follow any lie you tell if you will promise them life forever.
Because by their HUMAN nature the "understand; and acknowledge that Divinity.
HorseHillary! They do it on the off chance they won't have to die.
Homosexuality defies the Law of Creation. HIS rules. Follow them or GTFO.
Yeah,wasn't Jesus the dude that only hung around with hairly-legged men and told them to "love your fellow man"?
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There is no more a "gay Gene" than there is a gene that makes a person prefer a blonde over a brunette or a red head.
It's personal preference lain and simple.
Claming there is a "gay gene" is just the latest stunt by the PC LGBTXYZ crowd to try and normalize something that is clearly abnormal.
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There is no more a "gay Gene" than there is a gene that makes a person prefer a blinded over a brunette or a red head.
It's personal preference lain and simple.
Claming there is a "gay gene" is just the latest stunt by the PC LGBTXYZ crowd to try and normalize something that is clearly abnormal.
Yup. No more than there is any such thing as a woman trapped in a man's body.
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There is no more a "gay Gene" than there is a gene that makes a person prefer a blonde over a brunette or a red head.
It's personal preference lain and simple.
Claming there is a "gay gene" is just the latest stunt by the PC LGBTXYZ crowd to try and normalize something that is clearly abnormal.
I agree: there is probably no single "gay gene", and homosexuality is abnormal by definition. But, that wasn't the discussion.
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I agree: there is probably no single "gay gene", and homosexuality is abnormal by definition. But, that wasn't the discussion.
Oh. That explains everything. It wasn't the discussion, Despite the Title of the thread.
The 'Discussion' careened headlong down the side heading of a Religious Flame War that had not 1 but 2 Moderators attempt to drag it back On Topic.
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@Suppressed @To-Whose-Benefit? @musiclady
Kinda interesting that you picked the theory of gravity. I'm not expert but then again is anyone? Can anyone explain gravity? Why it works, how it works, where it works? Nearly everything we know is due to observation. Newton tried but it wasn't until Einstein that we had a real theory. The theory of relativity, or spacetime, is proposed as what causes gravity.
Here on earth if I drop a rock it falls to the ground. Nearly everywhere else in the universe it would stay exactly where I released it. At least if our observations are correct. But then our observations are based on assumptions and the observation of light particles that are billions of years old in some cases. Observations and a lot of fancy math that could be tossed on its ear with the next observation.
Actually, what the rock did would depend on your point of reference. It might 'stay' from your point of view, but you and the rock might be moving at millions of miles per second relative to another location in space.
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Actually, what the rock did would depend on your point of reference. It might 'stay' from your point of view, but you and the rock might be moving at millions of miles per second relative to another location in space.
@Smokin Joe
Both could be true, since both objects are already moving at such speeds relative to other locations.
But if you're gonna go all matrix on me then I'll have the red pill and the girl in the matching red dress.
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This stuff is brand new in the history of man. Give it another 15-20 years. We still don't have the common cold cured.
@To-Whose-Benefit?
The common cold will not be cured until it is economically advantageous to do so. Do you have any idea what the cold symptom reliever market is worth? (Billions)
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@Smokin Joe
Both could be true, since both objects are already moving at such speeds relative to other locations.
But if you're gonna go all matrix on me then I'll have the red pill and the girl in the matching red dress.
Never watched the movie, don't do pills, ladies in red dresses are taken on a case-by-case basis. Just pointing out some measurements aren't as absolute as we might think, but Newton even wrote that in. It is our measurement of the motion or lack thereof of the rock in space that may be flawed. We don't even know enough to pick a point in the universe that relative to all others is stationary to measure from, so we are stuck with our frame of reference. If we could find that point (0,0,0,0t), then we could put all else in perspective.
The question that nearly got me kicked out of a College Physics class:
If E=mc2, then as a star releases energy, it loses mass. As the star loses mass, the amount of gravitational force it exerts decreases as well (FG=G(m1m2)/r2).
How long does it take for that decrease in force to be felt at a point in space (What is the velocity of gravity?)
I was told if I ever brought that up in class again (even though it was after class) I would be given an F for the year.
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Never watched the movie, don't do pills, ladies in red dresses are taken on a case-by-case basis. Just pointing out some measurements aren't as absolute as we might think, but Newton even wrote that in. It is our measurement of the motion or lack thereof of the rock in space that may be flawed. We don't even know enough to pick a point in the universe that relative to all others is stationary to measure from, so we are stuck with our frame of reference. If we could find that point (0,0,0,0t), then we could put all else in perspective.
The question that nearly got me kicked out of a College Physics class:
If E=mc2, then as a star releases energy, it loses mass. As the star loses mass, the amount of gravitational force it exerts decreases as well (FG=G(m1m2)/r2).
How long does it take for that decrease in force to be felt at a point in space (What is the velocity of gravity?)
I was told if I ever brought that up in class again (even though it was after class) I would be given an F for the year.
Thats because they don't know the answer, or at least how to prove the answer.
Perhaps that explains why the universe is expanding. All that energy the gajullions of suns are releasing are in turn reducing the mass/gravity in the universe.
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Never watched the movie, don't do pills, ladies in red dresses are taken on a case-by-case basis. Just pointing out some measurements aren't as absolute as we might think, but Newton even wrote that in. It is our measurement of the motion or lack thereof of the rock in space that may be flawed. We don't even know enough to pick a point in the universe that relative to all others is stationary to measure from, so we are stuck with our frame of reference. If we could find that point (0,0,0,0t), then we could put all else in perspective.
The question that nearly got me kicked out of a College Physics class:
If E=mc2, then as a star releases energy, it loses mass. As the star loses mass, the amount of gravitational force it exerts decreases as well (FG=G(m1m2)/r2).
How long does it take for that decrease in force to be felt at a point in space (What is the velocity of gravity?)
I was told if I ever brought that up in class again (even though it was after class) I would be given an F for the year.
BTW
(https://thetalkingpot.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/fiona-johnson-as-the-woman-in-red-in-the-matrix1.jpg)
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The common cold will not be cured until it is economically advantageous to do so. Do you have any idea what the cold symptom reliever market is worth? (Billions)
And how much would you pay to never get a cold again? While the industry might loose dollars, the one company finding the "cure" would make dollars.
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And how much would you pay to never get a cold again? While the industry might loose dollars, the one company finding the "cure" would make dollars.
@thackney
Would they? More than likely the other companies would buy it and shut the product down.
Doesn't matter though because creating a new drug is very expensive by design and its extremely difficult for startups to get the funding needed to put new meds thru the process.
Drug companies make customers, not cures. The amount of money at stake is staggering.
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And how much would you pay to never get a cold again? While the industry might loose dollars, the one company finding the "cure" would make dollars.
If I were to get colds at the rate I usually do, I can expect maybe 1 or 2 more in my lifetime. They usually are mild, and of short duration, so it might not be worth much to me at all. YMMV
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If I were to get colds at the rate I usually do, I can expect maybe 1 or 2 more in my lifetime. They usually are mild, and of short duration, so it might not be worth much to me at all. YMMV
The afflictions of the cold for me and my family have been significant. For any of my children to not go through this again, would save them hundreds if not thousands of lost hours.
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The common cold will not be cured until it is economically advantageous to do so. Do you have any idea what the cold symptom reliever market is worth? (Billions)
ABSOLUTELY!
Speaking of what given markets are worth;
Govt Mind Control Tops US Healthcare Spending.
http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2016/05/govt-mind-control-tops-us-healthcare.html (http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2016/05/govt-mind-control-tops-us-healthcare.html)
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@thackney
Would they? More than likely the other companies would buy it and shut the product down.
Doesn't matter though because creating a new drug is very expensive by design and its extremely difficult for startups to get the funding needed to put new meds thru the process.
Drug companies make customers, not cures. The amount of money at stake is staggering.
Sounds like money to be made, for them to pay enough to buy it out. Your description still gives reason to work on creating it.
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The afflictions of the cold for me and my family have been significant. For any of my children to not go through this again, would save them hundreds if not thousands of lost hours.
Mine have been rare, mild in effect, and at times and places where I can work through them with little risk to others. :shrug: Maybe y'all just have meaner germs?
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Sounds like money to be made, for them to pay enough to buy it out. Your description still gives reason to work on creating it.
@thackney
We'll get your business plan together. It will take $3 billion dollars, some really good research doctors, and about 10 years.
Or you could take your money, invest it in the next depression drug and make about $20 billion in the next 10 years.
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@thackney
We'll get your business plan together. It will take $3 billion dollars, some really good research doctors, and about 10 years.
Or you could take your money, invest it in the next depression drug and make about $20 billion in the next 10 years.
All True
http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2013/03/j-fights-327m-risperdal-verdict-saying.html (http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2013/03/j-fights-327m-risperdal-verdict-saying.html)
Slip opinion from SC's Justice Crouch characterizing the Risperdal Gang, as he ordered them to Pay $327 Million to the State, as "Detestable".
http://freepdfhosting.com/d4bad152b5.pdf (http://freepdfhosting.com/d4bad152b5.pdf)
[the Court slip ain't there no more, but if anyone wants it, just PM me a valid e-mail addy]
Below, we've previously shared out that particular 'Detestable'.
http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/South%20Carolina (http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/South%20Carolina)
"this Court finds the actions of the Defendants, upon this audience, to be detestable."
"Annual Sales of Risperdal worldwide per annual reports of Johnson & Johnson, Inc.
1994: $0.172 Billion
1995: $0.343 Billion
1996: $0.502 Billion
1998: $0.588 Billion
1999: $0.892 Billion
2000: $1.083 Billion
2001: $1.845 Billion
2002: $2.146 Billion
2003: $2.512 Billion
2004: $3.05 Billion
2005: $3.552 Billion
2006: $4.180 Billion
2007: $4.697 Billion
2008: $1.309 Billion
2009: $1.425 Billion
2010: $1.50 Billion
Total for the period: $29.796 Billion
Testimony at trial indicated that the profit margin for sales of Risperdal was 97% or $28.90 Billion for the period of 1994-2010"
And there's more 'Detestable' from J&J and their Risperdal gang. There's Always More Detestable. Like this Detestable, where 40 State AGs Were, past tense, looking into Joining the Detestable fray, which Never should have been Allowed, BY DC's FDA, to have Detestabled in the First place:
http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2011/08/j-feds-reach-deal-on-one-risperdal.html (http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2011/08/j-feds-reach-deal-on-one-risperdal.html)
After J&J Failed 48% of 161 FDA Inspections in One Year
http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2011/05/congress-deeply-troubled-with-fdaj.html (http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2011/05/congress-deeply-troubled-with-fdaj.html)
But Now, J&J says that since "No One Was Harmed" a monetary penalty of $327M is unfair.
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And before anyone's tempted to ask, this is what the drug Risperdal does, without curing Anything at all.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Q9489HJjO7Q/SZOCRBFGRMI/AAAAAAAABas/AJJgAYl_LsI/s400/graymatter.gif)
Risperdal Adverse Reactions
Risperdal, 1,935 Distinct Adverse Reactions
http://psychroachesadverseevent.blogspot.com/2009/03/risperdal-adverse-reactions.html (http://psychroachesadverseevent.blogspot.com/2009/03/risperdal-adverse-reactions.html)
Between 2004 and 2006 the FDA MedWatch program received 4,956 Individual Safety Reports naming Risperdal (risperidone) the Primary Suspect Drug for 1,935 distinct adverse reactions including abnormal respiration, respiratory arrest, respiratory distress, respiratory failure and respiratory tract infection.
All 1,935 Risperdal side effects are listed below in alphabetical order.
Abasia, Abdominal Discomfort, Abdominal Distension, Abdominal Hernia, Abdominal Injury, Abdominal Pain, Abdominal Pain Lower, Abdominal Pain Upper, Abdominal Strangulated Hernia, Abnormal Behaviour, Abnormal Dreams, Abnormal Sensation In Eye, Abortion, Abortion Incomplete, Abortion Induced, Abortion Spontaneous, Abscess, Abulia, Accident, Accidental Death, Accidental Exposure, Accidental Overdose, Accommodation Disorder, Acidosis, Acne, Acquired Pyloric Stenosis, Activated Partial Thromboplastin Time Prolonged, Activated Partial Thromboplastin Time Shortened, Activities of Daily Living Impaired, Acute Abdomen, Acute Generalised Exanthematous Pustulosis, Acute Lymphocytic Leukaemia, Acute Myeloid Leukaemia, Acute Myocardial Infarction, Acute Psychosis, Acute Pulmonary Oedema, Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome, Acute Respiratory Failure, Acute Sinusitis, Acute Stress Disorder, Adenocarcinoma, Adrenal Adenoma, Adrenal Disorder, Adrenal Neoplasm, Adverse Drug Reaction, Adverse Event, Affect Lability, Ageusia, Aggression, Agitation, Agoraphobia, Agranulocytosis, Akathisia, Akinesia, Alanine Aminotransferase Increased, Alcohol Detoxification, Alcohol Poisoning, Alcohol Use, Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome, Alcoholic Psychosis, Alcoholism, Alopecia, Alpha Haemolytic Streptococcal Infection, Alpha Hydroxybutyrate Dehydrogenase Increased, Alveolitis, Alveolitis Allergic, Amenorrhoea, Ammonia Increased, Amnesia, Amniocentesis Abnormal, Amniotic Cavity Infection, Amputation of Penis, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Anaemia, Anaemia Macrocytic, Anaemia Megaloblastic, Anaemia Vitamin B12 Deficiency, Anaesthetic Complication Cardiac, Anal Cancer, Anal Dilatation, Anal Fissure, Anal Haemorrhage, Anaphylactic Reaction, Anaphylactic Shock, Aneurysm, Aneurysm Ruptured, Anger, Angina Pectoris, Angioneurotic Oedema, Angiopathy, Angle Closure Glaucoma, Ankle Fracture, Anorexia, Anorexia Nervosa, Anorgasmia, Anticholinergic Syndrome, Anticonvulsant Drug Level Below Therapeutic, Anticonvulsant Drug Level Decreased, Antidepressant Drug Level Increased, Antimitochondrial Antibody Positive, Antinuclear Antibody Positive, Antiphospholipid Antibodies Positive, Antipsychotic Drug Level Above Therapeutic, Antipsychotic Drug Level Below Therapeutic, Antipsychotic Drug Level Increased, Antisocial Behaviour, Anuria, Anxiety, Anxiety Disorder, Aortic Arteriosclerosis, Aortic Atherosclerosis, Aortic Rupture, Aortic Stenosis, Aortic Valve Incompetence, Apallic Syndrome, Apathy, Apgar Score Low, Aphagia, Aphasia, Aplastic Anaemia, Apnoea, Apnoeic Attack, Appendicitis, Appendix Disorder, Application Site Swelling, Arachnoid Cyst, Areflexia, Arrhythmia, Arrhythmia Neonatal, Arterial Occlusive Disease, Arteriosclerosis, Arteriosclerosis Coronary Artery, Arteriovenous Fistula, Arteritis, Artery Dissection, Arthralgia, Arthritis, Arthropathy, Arthropod Bite, Ascites, Aspartate Aminotransferase Increased, Asphyxia, Aspiration, Asthenia, Asthenopia, Asthma, Astigmatism, Ataxia, Atelectasis, Atherosclerosis, Atrial Fibrillation, Atrial Flutter, Atrial Septal Defect, Atrial Tachycardia, Atrioventricular Block, Atrioventricular Block Complete, Atrioventricular Block First Degree, Atrioventricular Block Second Degree, Atrioventricular Block Third Degree, Atrophy, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Autism, Autoimmune Hepatitis, Automatism, Autonomic Nervous System Imbalance, Av Dissociation, Azotaemia, Back Injury, Back Pain, Bacteraemia, Bacteria Sputum Identified, Bacteria Tissue Specimen Identified, Bacteria Urine Identified, Bacterial Infection, Bacteriuria, Balance Disorder, Band Neutrophil Count Decreased, Band Neutrophil Count Increased, Band Neutrophil Percentage Decreased, Basal Cell Carcinoma, Bedridden, Benign Breast Neoplasm, Benign Neoplasm, Benign Pancreatic Neoplasm, Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia, Benign Soft Tissue Neoplasm, Beta 2 Microglobulin Increased, Beta Haemolytic Streptococcal Infection, Bile Duct Obstruction, Bile Duct Stone, Biliary Cirrhosis Primary, Biliary Tract Disorder, Binocular Eye Movement Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, Bipolar I Disorder, Bite, Bladder Cancer Stage III, Bladder Distension, Bladder Spasm, Blast Cells Present, Blepharospasm, Blighted Ovum, Blindness, Blindness Transient, Blindness Unilateral, Blister, Blood Albumin Decreased, Blood Albumin Increased, Blood Alkaline Phosphatase Decreased, Blood Alkaline Phosphatase Increased, Blood Amylase Increased, Blood Antidiuretic Hormone Decreased, Blood Bicarbonate Increased, Blood Bilirubin Abnormal, Blood Bilirubin Increased, Blood Bilirubin Unconjugated Increased, Blood Calcium Decreased, Blood Calcium Increased, Blood Chloride Decreased, Blood Chloride Increased, Blood Cholesterol Increased, Blood Cholinesterase Decreased, Blood Cortisol Decreased, Blood Cortisol Increased, Blood Creatine Increased, Blood Creatine Phosphokinase Increased, Blood Creatine Phosphokinase Mb Increased, Blood Creatinine Increased, Blood Culture Positive, Blood Disorder, Blood Fibrinogen Increased, Blood Folate Decreased, Blood Gases Abnormal, Blood Glucose Decreased, Blood Glucose Fluctuation, Blood Glucose Increased, Blood Immunoglobulin A Increased, Blood Immunoglobulin G Increased, Blood Insulin Increased, Blood Iron Decreased, Blood Iron Increased, Blood Ketone Body Present, Blood Lactate Dehydrogenase Decreased, Blood Lactate Dehydrogenase Increased, Blood Magnesium Increased, Blood Osmolarity Decreased, Blood PH Decreased, Blood PH Increased, Blood Phosphorus Decreased, Blood Potassium Decreased, Blood Potassium Increased, Blood Pressure Decreased, Blood Pressure Diastolic Decreased, Blood Pressure Diastolic Increased, Blood Pressure Fluctuation, Blood Pressure Increased, Blood Pressure Orthostatic Abnormal, Blood Pressure Orthostatic Increased, Blood Pressure Systolic Increased, Blood Proinsulin Increased, Blood Prolactin Abnormal, Blood Prolactin Increased, Blood Sodium Decreased, Blood Sodium Increased, Blood Test, Blood Test Abnormal, Blood Thrombin Increased, Blood Thyroid Stimulating Hormone Decreased, Blood Thyroid Stimulating Hormone Increased, Blood Triglycerides Increased, Blood Urea Decreased, Blood Urea Increased, Blood Urine Present, Body Temperature Decreased, Body Temperature Increased, Bone Disorder, Bone Marrow Depression, Bone Marrow Disorder, Bone Marrow Failure, Bone Marrow Toxicity, Bone Pain, Bowel Sounds Abnormal, Brachial Plexus Injury, Brachial Plexus Lesion, Bradyarrhythmia, Bradycardia, Bradykinesia, Bradyphrenia, Brain Death, Brain Herniation, Brain Malformation, Brain Neoplasm, Brain Oedema, Brain Scan Abnormal, Brain Stem Auditory Evoked Response Abnormal, Brain Stem Haemorrhage, Brain Stem Infarction, Breast Abscess, Breast Cancer, Breast Cancer Female, Breast Cancer In Situ, Breast Cancer Male, Breast Cancer Recurrent, Breast Cancer Stage III, Breast Cyst, Breast Discharge, Breast Haemorrhage, Breast Mass, Breast Neoplasm, Breast Pain, Breast Swelling, Breast Tenderness, Breath Odour, Bronchial Disorder, Bronchial Hyperactivity, Bronchiectasis, Bronchitis, Bronchitis Acute, Bronchopneumonia, Bronchopneumopathy, Bronchospasm, Brucellosis, Bruxism, Bulimia Nervosa, Bundle Branch Block Left, Bundle Branch Block Right, Burn Oesophageal, Burning Sensation, Bursitis, Buttock Pain, Cachexia, Caesarean Section, Candida Sepsis, Candidiasis, Candiduria, Carbon Dioxide Decreased, Carcinoma, Carcinoma In Situ, Cardiac Arrest, Cardiac Death, Cardiac Disorder, Cardiac Failure, Cardiac Failure Acute, Cardiac Failure Chronic, Cardiac Failure Congestive, Cardiac Fibrillation, Cardiac Flutter, Cardiac Murmur, Cardiac Pacemaker Insertion, Cardiac Valve Disease, Cardiolipin Antibody, Cardiolipin Antibody Positive, Cardiomegaly, Cardiomyopathy, Cardiopulmonary Failure, Cardio-Respiratory Arrest, Cardiotoxicity, Cardiovascular Disorder, Carditis, Carotid Artery Occlusion, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, Cataract, Cataract Operation, Catatonia, Catheter Related Complication, Catheter Site Discharge, Catheter Site Haemorrhage, Catheter Site Related Reaction, Cellulitis, Central Nervous System Infection, Central Nervous System Stimulation, Central Pontine Myelinolysis, Cerebellar Atrophy, Cerebellar Syndrome, Cerebral Artery Occlusion, Cerebral Atherosclerosis, Cerebral Atrophy, Cerebral Circulatory Failure, Cerebral Haemorrhage, Cerebral Infarction, Cerebral Ischaemia, Cerebral Thrombosis, Cerebrospinal Fluid Retention, Cerebrovascular Accident, Cerebrovascular Disorder, Cervical Dysplasia, Cervix Carcinoma Stage III, Chest Discomfort, Chest Pain, Chest X-Ray Abnormal, Cheyne-Stokes Respiration, Chills, Choking, Choking Sensation, Cholangitis, Cholecystectomy, Cholecystitis, Cholecystitis Acute, Cholecystitis Chronic, Cholelithiasis, Cholelithiasis Obstructive, Cholestasis, Cholinergic Syndrome, Chromaturia, Chronic Hepatitis, Chronic Lymphocytic Leukaemia, Chronic Obstructive Airways Disease, Chronic Obstructive Airways Disease Exacerbated, Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, Circulatory Collapse, Cleft Lip, Cleft Lip and Palate, Cleft Palate, Clonic Convulsion, Clonus, Clostridium Colitis, Clubbing, Coagulation Factor Decreased, Coagulation Factor IX Level Decreased, Coagulation Factor V Level Decreased, Coagulation Factor VII Level Decreased, Coagulation Factor VIII Level Decreased, Coagulation Factor X Level Decreased, Coagulopathy, Cognitive Deterioration, Cognitive Disorder, Cogwheel Rigidity, Cold Sweat, Colitis, Colitis Ulcerative, Collapse of Lung, Colon Adenoma, Colon Cancer, Colonic Polyp, Colonic Pseudo-Obstruction, Colour Blindness, Coma, Compartment Syndrome, Completed Suicide, Complex Partial Seizures, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, Complications of Maternal Exposure To Therapeutic Drugs, Compression Fracture, Compulsions, Computerised Tomogram Abnormal, Condition Aggravated, Conduction Disorder, Confusional State, Congenital Anomaly, Congenital Atrial Septal Defect, Congenital Cerebrovascular Anomaly, Congenital Foot Malformation, Congenital Teratoma, Congestive Cardiomyopathy, Conjunctival Haemorrhage, Conjunctivitis, Consciousness Fluctuating, Constipation, Contusion, Conversion Disorder, C-Reactive Protein Decreased, C-Reactive Protein Increased, Convulsion, Convulsion Neonatal, Coordination Abnormal, Corneal Abrasion, Corneal Deposits, Corneal Disorder, Corneal Opacity, Coronary Artery Disease, Coronary Artery Stenosis, Corrective Lens User, Cough, Creatine Urine Abnormal, Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, Crohn's Disease Crying, Cryptogenic Organizing Pneumonia, Cryptorchism, Csf Oligoclonal Band Present, Csf Pressure Increased, Culture Urine Positive, Cushingoid, Cutaneous Lupus Erythematosus, Cyanosis, Cyanosis Central, Cystitis, Cytolytic Hepatitis, Deafness, Deafness Unilateral, Death, Death of Child, Death of Parent, Decreased Activity, Decreased Appetite, Decreased Interest, Decubitus Ulcer, Deep Vein Thrombosis, Deficiency Anaemia, Deformity Thorax, Dehydration, Delayed Puberty, Delayed Recovery From Anaesthesia, Delinquency, Delirium, Delusion, Delusion of Reference, Delusional Disorder (Unspecified Type), Dementia, Dementia Alzheimer's Type, Dependence, Dependence On Respirator, Depressed Level of Consciousness, Depressed Mood, Depression, Dermal Cyst, Dermatitis, Dermatitis Bullous, Dermatitis Exfoliative, Developmental Coordination Disorder, Developmental Delay, Device Breakage, Device Failure, Diabetes Insipidus, Diabetes Mellitus, Diabetes Mellitus Inadequate Control, Diabetes Mellitus Insulin-Dependent, Diabetes Mellitus Non-Insulin-Dependent, Diabetes With Hyperosmolarity, Diabetic Coma, Diabetic Complication, Diabetic Hyperosmolar Coma, Diabetic Ketoacidosis, Diabetic Neuropathy, Diabetic Ulcer, Dialysis, Diarrhoea, Diastolic Dysfunction, Diet Refusal, Difficulty In Walking, Dilatation Atrial, Diphtheria, Diplegia, Diplopia, Discomfort, Disease Progression, Disease Recurrence, Disinhibition, Dislocation of Vertebra, Disorientation, Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation, Dissociation, Disturbance In Attention, Disturbance In Social Behaviour, Diverticulitis, Dizziness, Dizziness Postural, Drooling, Drop Attacks, Drowning, Drug Abuser, Drug Administration Error, Drug Clearance Decreased, Drug Dispensing Error, Drug Dose Omission, Drug Effect Decreased, Drug Exposure Before Pregnancy, Drug Exposure During Pregnancy, Drug Exposure Via Breast Milk, Drug Hypersensitivity, Drug Ineffective, Drug Interaction, Drug Intolerance, Drug Level Above Therapeutic, Drug Level Below Therapeutic, Drug Level Decreased, Drug Level Increased, Drug Prescribing Error, Drug Rash With Eosinophilia and Systemic Symptoms, Drug Screen Positive, Drug Toxicity, Drug Withdrawal Syndrome, Drug Withdrawal Syndrome Neonatal, Dry Eye, Dry Mouth, Dry Skin, Duodenal Ulcer, Dysarthria, Dyscalculia, Dysgeusia, Dysgraphia, Dyskinesia, Dyskinesia Neonatal, Dyslipidaemia, Dyspepsia, Dysphagia, Dysphemia, Dysphonia, Dysphoria, Dysplasia, Dyspnoea, Dyspnoea Exacerbated, Dyspnoea Exertional, Dysstasia, Dystonia, Dysuria, Ear Discomfort, Ear Disorder, Ear Haemorrhage, Ear Infection, Ear Malformation, Ear Pain, Early Morning Awakening, Eating Disorder, Eating Disorder Symptom, Ecchymosis, Ecg Signs of Ventricular Hypertrophy, Economic Problem, Ectopic Pregnancy, Eczema, Educational Problem, Ejaculation Disorder, Ejaculation Failure, Ejection Fraction Decreased, Electrocardiogram Abnormal, Electrocardiogram Change, Electrocardiogram P Wave Abnormal, Electrocardiogram Poor R-Wave Progression, Electrocardiogram Pq Interval Prolonged, Electrocardiogram Q Waves, Electrocardiogram QT Corrected Interval, Electrocardiogram QT Corrected Interval Prolonged, Electrocardiogram QT Prolonged, Electrocardiogram St Segment Depression, Electrocardiogram St Segment Elevation, Electrocardiogram St-T Change, Electrocardiogram St-T Segment Abnormal, Electrocardiogram T Wave Abnormal, Electrocardiogram T Wave Inversion, Electroencephalogram Abnormal, Electrolyte Imbalance, Embolism, Emotional Disorder, Emotional Distress, Emphysema, Empty Sella Syndrome, Encephalitis, Encephalopathy, Encopresis, Endocarditis Bacterial, Endocrine Disorder, Endometrial Cancer, Endometrial Cancer Stage III, Endometrial Hyperplasia, Enteritis, Enterobacter Infection, Enterococcal Infection, Enterocolitis, Enterocolitis Haemorrhagic, Enuresis, Eosinophil Count Increased, Eosinophil Percentage Decreased, Eosinophilia, Epidermal Naevus, Epilepsy, Epistaxis, Epstein-Barr Virus Antibody Positive, Erectile Dysfunction, Erection Increased, Eructation, Erythema, Erythema Multiforme, Erythropenia, Eschar, Escherichia Infection, Escherichia Sepsis, Escherichia Urinary Tract Infection, Euphoric Mood, Excessive Masturbation, Excitability, Excoriation, Expressive Language Disorder, Extensor Plantar Response, External Ear Cellulitis, Extradural Haematoma, Extraocular Muscle Paresis, Extrapyramidal Disorder, Eye Disorder, Eye Haemorrhage, Eye Infection, Eye Movement Disorder, Eye Oedema, Eye Pain, Eye Rolling, Eye Swelling, Eyelid Disorder, Eyelid Margin Crusting, Eyelid Oedema, Eyelid Ptosis, Face Oedema, Facial Bones Fracture, Facial Dysmorphism, Facial Palsy, Facial Spasm, Factor V Leiden Mutation, Faecal Incontinence, Faeces Discoloured, Failure To Thrive, Fall, Familial Risk Factor, Family Stress, Fat Necrosis, Fatigue, Fear, Febrile Infection, Febrile Neutropenia, Feeding Disorder, Feeding Disorder Neonatal, Feeling Abnormal, Feeling Cold, Feeling Drunk, Feeling Hot, Feeling Jittery, Feeling of Despair, Feelings of Worthlessness, Femoral Neck Fracture, Femur Fracture, Fibrin D Dimer Increased, Fibrin Degradation Products Increased, Fibromyalgia, Flank Pain, Flat Affect, Flatulence, Fluid Intake Reduced, Fluid Overload, Fluid Retention, Flushing, Foaming at Mouth, Foetal Disorder, Foetal Distress Syndrome, Foetal Growth Retardation, Foetal Heart Rate Abnormal, Foetal Heart Rate Deceleration, Foetal Movements Decreased, Food Allergy, Food Craving, Food Poisoning, Forceps Delivery, Foreign Body Aspiration, Formication, Fracture, Freezing Phenomenon, Frostbite, Full Blood Count Decreased, Fungal Infection, Gait Disturbance, Galactocele, Galactorrhoea, Gallbladder Disorder, Gallbladder Operation, Gallbladder Polyp, Gamma-Glutamyltransferase Increased, Ganglioneuroma, Gas Poisoning, Gastric Cancer, Gastric Dilatation, Gastric Disorder, Gastric Haemorrhage, Gastric Mucosal Hypertrophy, Gastric Polyps, Gastric Ulcer, Gastric Ulcer Haemorrhage, Gastric Ulcer Perforation, Gastritis, Gastritis Alcoholic, Gastritis Atrophic, Gastroenteritis, Gastrointestinal Carcinoma, Gastrointestinal Disorder, Gastrointestinal Haemorrhage, Gastrointestinal Hypomotility, Gastrointestinal Injury, Gastrointestinal Motility Disorder, Gastrointestinal Mucosal Disorder, Gastrointestinal Necrosis, Gastrointestinal Obstruction, Gastrointestinal Ulcer, Gastrooesophageal Reflux Disease, Gastroschisis, Gaze Palsy, General Nutrition Disorder, General Physical Condition, General Physical Condition Abnormal, General Physical Health Deterioration, Generalised Oedema, Genital Rash, Genitourinary Tract Infection, Gestational Diabetes, Gingival Bleeding, Gingival Disorder, Gingival Hyperplasia, Gingival Injury, Gingival Oedema, Gingival Swelling, Gingival Ulceration, Gingivitis, Glaucoma, Glomerulonephritis Proliferative, Glossodynia, Glossoptosis, Glucose Tolerance Impaired, Glucose Tolerance Test Abnormal, Glucose Urine Present, Glycosylated Haemoglobin Increased, Goitre, Graft Infection, Graft Thrombosis, Graft Versus Host Disease, Grand Mal Convulsion, Granulocyte Count Decreased, Granulocytopenia, Granulocytosis, Grimacing, Groin Pain, Growth Accelerated, Growth Retardation, Grunting, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, Gynaecomastia, Haemangioma, Haematemesis, Haematochezia, Haematocrit Decreased, Haematocrit Increased, Haematoma, Haematuria, Haemochromatosis, Haemoconcentration, Haemodialysis, Haemodynamic Instability, Haemoglobin Decreased, Haemoglobin Increased, Haemolysis, Haemolytic Anaemia, Haemoptysis, Haemorrhage, Haemorrhage Subcutaneous, Haemorrhagic Cerebral Infarction, Haemorrhagic Diathesis, Haemorrhagic Stroke, Haemorrhoidal Haemorrhage, Haemorrhoids, Hair Colour Changes, Hair Disorder, Hair Growth Abnormal, Hair Metal Test Abnormal, Hairy Cell Leukaemia, Hallucination, Hallucination (Auditory), Hallucination (Visual), Hallucinations (Mixed), Hand Deformity, Hand Fracture, Haptoglobin Decreased, Head Banging, Head Injury, Headache, Hearing Impaired, Heart Disease Congenital, Heart Rate Decreased, Heart Rate Increased, Heart Rate Irregular, Heat Stroke, Helicobacter Gastritis, Helicobacter Infection, Helminthic Infection, Hemianopia, Hemiparesis, Hemiplegia, Henoch-Schonlein Purpura, Hepatic Cirrhosis, Hepatic Congestion, Hepatic Encephalopathy, Hepatic Enzyme Increased, Hepatic Failure, Hepatic Fibrosis, Hepatic Function Abnormal, Hepatic Lesion, Hepatic Necrosis, Hepatic Neoplasm, Hepatic Neoplasm Malignant, Hepatic Steatosis, Hepatitis, Hepatitis Acute, Hepatitis Alcoholic, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis C, Hepatitis Cholestatic, Hepatitis Granulomatous, Hepatitis Viral, Hepatocellular Damage, Hepatomegaly, Hepatosplenomegaly, Hepatotoxicity, Hernia, Herpes Simplex, Herpes Virus Infection, Herpes Zoster, Hiccups, High Density Lipoprotein Decreased, Hip Fracture, Hirsutism, Histology Abnormal, Hoarseness, Hodgkin's Disease Nodular Sclerosis Stage III, Homicidal Ideation, Homicide, Hookworm Infection, Hospitalisation, Hostility, Hot Flush, Hunger, Huntington's Chorea, Hyperammonaemia, Hyperbilirubinaemia, Hypercalcaemia, Hypercholesterolaemia, Hyperglycaemia, Hyperglycaemic Hyperosmolar Nonketotic Syndrome, Hyperhidrosis, Hyperinsulinism, Hyperkalaemia, Hyperkeratosis, Hyperkinesia, Hyperlipidaemia, Hypernatraemia, Hyperparathyroidism, Hyperphagia, Hyperprolactinaemia, Hyperpyrexia, Hyperreflexia, Hypersensitivity, Hypersomnia, Hypertension, Hypertensive Crisis, Hyperthermia, Hyperthermia Malignant, Hyperthyroidism, Hypertonia, Hypertonia Neonatal, Hypertriglyceridaemia, Hypertrophy Breast, Hyperventilation, Hypervolaemia, Hypnagogic Hallucination, Hypoacusis, Hypoaesthesia, Hypoaesthesia Oral, Hypochondriasis, Hypochromic Anaemia, Hypoglycaemia, Hypoglycaemia Neonatal, Hypoglycaemic Coma, Hypogonadism, Hypokalaemia, Hypokinesia, Hypomania, Hyponatraemia, Hypoproteinaemia, Hyporeflexia, Hypotension, Hypothermia, Hypothyroidism, Hypotonia, Hypotonia Neonatal, Hypotonic Urinary Bladder, Hypoventilation, Hypovolaemia, Hypovolaemic Shock, Hypoxia, Hypoxic Encephalopathy, Iatrogenic Injury, Idiopathic Thrombocytopenic Purpura, Idiosyncratic Drug Reaction, Ileus, Ileus Paralytic, Ill-Defined Disorder, Immobile, Immune System Disorder, Immunodeficiency, Immunosuppression, Impaired Driving Ability, Impaired Gastric Emptying, Impaired Healing, Impaired Self-Care, Impulse-Control Disorder, Impulsive Behaviour, Inadequate Diet, Inappropriate Affect, Inappropriate Antidiuretic Hormone Secretion, Inappropriate Schedule of Drug Administration, Incoherent, Incontinence, Incorrect Dose Administered, Incorrect Route of Drug Administration, Increased Appetite, Increased Bronchial Secretion, Increased Insulin Requirement, Increased Upper Airway Secretion, Incubator Therapy, Infarction, Infection, Infection Parasitic, Infertility, Infertility Female, Inflammation, Inflammatory Bowel Disease, Influenza, Influenza Like Illness, Inguinal Hernia, Inguinal Hernia Repair, Initial Insomnia, Injection Site Haemorrhage, Injection Site Infection, Injection Site Mass, Injection Site Necrosis, Injection Site Pain, Injection Site Reaction, Injection Site Swelling, Injection Site Ulcer, Injury, Injury Asphyxiation, Insomnia, Insulin C-Peptide Decreased, Insulin Resistance, Insulin-Requiring Type II Diabetes Mellitus, Intelligence Test Abnormal, Intention Tremor, Intentional Drug Misuse, Intentional Misuse, Intentional Overdose, Intentional Self-Injury, Intercepted Medication Error, Intermittent Explosive Disorder, Internal Hernia, International Normalised Ratio Decreased, International Normalised Ratio Increased, Interstitial Lung Disease, Intervertebral Disc Disorder, Intervertebral Disc Protrusion, Intestinal Dilatation, Intestinal Functional Disorder, Intestinal Ischaemia, Intestinal Obstruction, Intestinal Polyp, Intracardiac Thrombus, Intracranial Aneurysm, Intracranial Pressure Increased, Intraocular Pressure Increased, Iron Deficiency, Iron Deficiency Anaemia, Irritability, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Ischaemia, Ischaemic Stroke, Jaundice, Jaundice Cholestatic, Jaundice Neonatal, Jaw Disorder, Joint Crepitation, Joint Dislocation, Joint Injury, Joint Lock, Joint Stiffness, Joint Swelling, Judgement Impaired, Keratoconjunctivitis Sicca, Ketoacidosis, Ketonuria, Kidney Infection, Klebsiella Infection, Labile Blood Pressure, Laboratory Test Abnormal, Laboratory Test Interference, Laceration, Lacrimation Increased, Lactation Disorder, Lacunar Infarction, Laryngeal Cancer, Laryngeal Disorder, Laryngomalacia, Laryngospasm, Left Ventricular Failure, Leg Amputation, Legal Problem, Lenticular Opacities, Lethargy, Leukaemia, Leukocytoclastic Vasculitis, Leukocytosis, Leukocyturia, Leukoencephalomyelitis, Leukoencephalopathy, Leukopenia, Libido Decreased, Libido Increased, Life Support, Ligament Disorder, Light Chain Analysis Increased, Lip Disorder, Lip Dry, Lip Neoplasm Malignant Stage Unspecified, Lipase Increased, Lipids Increased, Liver Disorder, Liver Function Test Abnormal, Lobar Pneumonia, Localised Infection, Localised Oedema, Locked-In Syndrome, Logorrhoea, Loose Stools, Lordosis, Loss of Consciousness, Loss of Control of Legs, Loss of Employment, Loss of Libido, Low Density Lipoprotein Increased, Lower Gastrointestinal Haemorrhage, Lower Limb Fracture, Lower Respiratory Tract Infection, Lower Respiratory Tract Inflammation, Lumbar Puncture Abnormal, Lumbar Vertebral Fracture, Lung Cancer Metastatic, Lung Disorder, Lung Infection, Lung Infection Pseudomonal, Lung Infiltration, Lung Neoplasm, Lung Neoplasm Malignant, Lupus-Like Syndrome, Lymphadenopathy, Lymphocyte Count Decreased, Lymphocyte Percentage Decreased, Lymphocyte Percentage Increased, Lymphocyte Stimulation Test Positive, Lymphoedema, Lymphopenia, Macrosomia, Macular Cyst, Major Depression, Malaise, Male Pattern Baldness, Malignant Melanoma, Malnutrition, Mammogram Abnormal, Mania, Marital Problem, Markedly Reduced Dietary Intake, Marrow Hyperplasia, Masked Facies, Mastectomy, Mastication Disorder, Maternal Condition Affecting Foetus, Maternal Drugs Affecting Foetus, Mean Cell Haemoglobin Concentration Decreased, Mean Cell Haemoglobin Decreased, Mean Cell Haemoglobin Increased, Mean Cell Volume Decreased, Medical Device Complication, Medication Error, Megacolon, Megacolon Acquired, Melaena, Melanosis Coli, Memory Impairment, Meningioma, Meningitis, Meningitis Pneumococcal, Meningitis Staphylococcal, Meniscus Lesion, Menorrhagia, Menstrual Disorder, Menstruation Irregular, Mental Disorder, Mental Impairment, Mental Retardation Severity Unspecified, Mental Status Changes, Metabolic Acidosis, Metabolic Disorder, Metabolic Encephalopathy, Metabolic Syndrome, Metastases To Bone, Metastases To Central Nervous System, Metastases To Liver, Metastases To Lung, Metastases To Lymph Nodes, Metastasis, Metastatic Neoplasm, Metrorrhagia, Microangiopathy, Microcytic Anaemia, Micturition Disorder, Middle Insomnia, Migraine, Migraine With Aura, Miosis, Mitral Valve Incompetence, Mitral Valve Prolapse, Moaning, Mobility Decreased, Monocyte Count Increased, Monocyte Percentage Increased, Monocytosis, Monoplegia, Mood Altered, Mood Swings, Morganella Infection, Motor Dysfunction, Mouth Ulceration, Movement Disorder, Mucosal Ulceration, Mucous Membrane Disorder, Multi-Organ Disorder, Multi-Organ Failure, Multiple Congenital Abnormalities, Multiple Drug Overdose, Multiple Drug Overdose Intentional, Multiple Fractures, Multiple Myeloma, Multiple Sclerosis, Murder, Muscle Atrophy, Muscle Contractions Involuntary, Muscle Contracture, Muscle Cramp, Muscle Disorder, Muscle Fatigue, Muscle Hypertrophy, Muscle Necrosis, Muscle Rigidity, Muscle Spasms, Muscle Spasticity, Muscle Strain, Muscle Twitching, Muscular Weakness, Musculoskeletal Chest Pain, Musculoskeletal Discomfort, Musculoskeletal Stiffness, Mutism, Myalgia, Myasthenic Syndrome, Mydriasis, Myelodysplastic Syndrome, Myelofibrosis, Myeloma Recurrence, Myocardial Calcification, Myocardial Infarction, Myocardial Ischaemia, Myocarditis, Myoclonic Epilepsy, Myoclonus, Myoglobin Blood Increased, Myoglobin Urine Present, Myoglobinuria, Myxoedema Coma, Nail Discolouration, Nail Disorder, Nail Infection, Nasopharyngitis, Nausea, Neck Injury, Neck Pain, Necrosis, Necrosis Ischaemic, Necrotising Fasciitis, Nematodiasis, Neologism, Neonatal Disorder, Neonatal Respiratory Distress Syndrome, Neoplasm, Neoplasm Malignant, Nephrolithiasis, Nephropathy Toxic, Nephrotic Syndrome, Nerve Injury, Nerve Root Lesion, Nervous System Disorder, Nervousness, Neurodermatitis, Neurogenic Bladder, Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome, Neurologic Neglect Syndrome, Neuromuscular Blockade, Neuropathic Pain, Neuropathy, Neutropenia, Neutrophil Count Decreased, Neutrophil Count Increased, Neutrophil Pelger-Huet Anomaly Present, Neutrophil Percentage Increased, Neutrophilia, Nightmare, Nipple Disorder, Nipple Neoplasm, No Adverse Drug Effect, No Adverse Effect, No Therapeutic Response, Nocturia, Non-Cardiac Chest Pain, Nonspecific Reaction, Nuchal Rigidity, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging Abnormal, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging Brain Abnormal, Nutritional Condition Abnormal, Nystagmus, Obesity, Obsessive Thoughts, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Obstructive Airways Disorder, Occult Blood Positive, Ocular Hyperaemia, Ocular Vascular Disorder, Oculogyration, Odynophagia, Oedema, Oedema Mouth, Oedema Mucosal, Oedema Peripheral, Oesophageal Atresia, Oesophageal Disorder, Oesophageal Injury, Oesophageal Pain, Oesophageal Stenosis, Oestrogen Receptor Assay Positive, Off Label Use, Oily Skin, Oligohydramnios, Oligomenorrhoea, Oliguria, Open Angle Glaucoma, Open Wound, Opisthotonus, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Optic Atrophy, Optic Disc Disorder, Optic Neuritis, Oral Fungal Infection, Oral Intake Reduced, Oral Mucosal Disorder, Oropharyngeal Spasm, Orthostatic Hypotension, Osteonecrosis, Osteoporosis, Otitis Media, Ovarian Cyst, Ovarian Neoplasm, Overdose, Overgrowth Bacterial, Oxygen Consumption Decreased, Oxygen Saturation Decreased, Pain, Pain In Extremity, Pain In Jaw, Painful Defaecation, Painful Erection, Pallor, Palpitations, Pancreatic Carcinoma, Pancreatic Disorder, Pancreatic Insufficiency, Pancreatitis, Pancreatitis Acute, Pancreatitis Chronic, Pancreatitis Haemorrhagic, Pancreatitis Necrotising, Pancytopenia, Panic Attack, Panic Disorder, Papilloedema, Paraesthesia, Paralysis, Paranoia, Parathyroid Tumour Benign, Paresis, Parkinsonian Gait, Parkinsonian Rest Tremor, Parkinsonism, Parkinson's Disease, Parosmia, Partial Seizures With Secondary Generalisation, Patent Ductus Arteriosus, Pathogen Resistance, PCO2 Increased, Pelvic Fracture, Pelvic Venous Thrombosis, Pemphigoid, Pemphigus, Penile Pain, Penile Size Reduced, Penile Swelling, Penile Vein Thrombosis, Penis Disorder, Pericardial Effusion, Pericarditis, Perineal Pain, Periodontitis, Periorbital Oedema, Peripheral Coldness, Peripheral Ischaemia, Peripheral Motor Neuropathy, Peripheral Sensorimotor Neuropathy, Peripheral Sensory Neuropathy, Pernicious Anaemia, Peroneal Nerve Palsy, Persecutory Delusion, Personality Change, Personality Disorder, Petechiae, Petit Mal Epilepsy, Phaeochromocytoma, Pharmaceutical Product Complaint, Pharyngeal Cancer Stage Unspecified, Pharyngeal Oedema, Pharyngitis, Pharyngitis Streptococcal, Pharyngolaryngeal Pain, Phimosis, Phlebitis, Phlebothrombosis, Photophobia, Photosensitive Rash, Photosensitivity Reaction, Physical Assault, Pitting Oedema, Pituitary Tumour, Pituitary Tumour Benign, Pituitary-Dependent Cushing's Syndrome, Plagiocephaly, Plantar Fasciitis, Platelet Adhesiveness Abnormal, Platelet Aggregation, Platelet Count Abnormal, Platelet Count Decreased, Platelet Count Increased, Platelet Disorder, Platelet Function Test Abnormal, Platelet Morphology Abnormal, Pleural Calcification, Pleural Effusion, Pleural Infection, Pleurisy, Pleuropericarditis, Pleurothotonus, Pneumatosis Cystoides Intestinalis, Pneumonia, Pneumonia Aspiration, Pneumonia Staphylococcal, Pneumonitis, Pneumothorax, Po2 Decreased, Po2 Increased, Poisoning, Pollakiuria, Polycystic Ovaries, Polycythaemia, Polydipsia, Polydipsia Psychogenic, Polyhydramnios, Polyneuropathy, Polytraumatism, Polyuria, Poor Peripheral Circulation, Poor Personal Hygiene, Poor Quality Drug Administered, Poor Sucking Reflex, Poriomania, Portal Hypertension, Post Abortion Haemorrhage, Post Procedural Cellulitis, Post Procedural Complication, Postictal State, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Posture Abnormal, Poverty of Speech, Precocious Puberty, Pregnancy, Premature Baby, Premature Labour, Premature Rupture of Membranes, Premature Separation of Placenta, Prescribed Overdose, Priapism, Procedural Site Reaction, Proctitis Ulcerative, Productive Cough, Progesterone Receptor Assay Positive, Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Prolactinoma, Prolonged Expiration, Prostate Cancer Metastatic, Prostatic Disorder, Prostration, Protein Total Decreased, Protein Total Increased, Protein Urine Present, Proteinuria, Proteus Infection, Prothrombin Level Abnormal, Prothrombin Level Decreased, Prothrombin Time Abnormal, Prothrombin Time Prolonged, Prothrombin Time Shortened, Prurigo, Pruritus, Pruritus Generalised, Pseudomonas Infection, Psoriasis, Psoriatic Arthropathy, Psychiatric Symptom, Psychomotor Agitation, Psychomotor Hyperactivity, Psychomotor Retardation, Psychomotor Skills Impaired, Psychosexual Disorder, Psychotic Disorder, Pubic Rami Fracture, Pulmonary Congestion, Pulmonary Embolism, Pulmonary Fibrosis, Pulmonary Haemorrhage, Pulmonary Hypertension, Pulmonary Oedema, Pulmonary Radiation Injury, Pulmonary Thrombosis, Pulmonary Tuberculosis, Pulse Abnormal, Pulse Absent, Pulse Pressure Decreased, Pupillary Reflex Impaired, Pupils Unequal, Purpura, Pyelectasia, Pyelonephritis, Pyrexia, Pyromania, Qrs Axis Abnormal, Radius Fracture, Rash, Rash Erythematous, Rash Generalised, Rash Maculo-Papular, Rash Papular, Rash Pruritic, Rash Pustular, Rathke's Cleft Cyst, Reaction To Drug Excipients, Rectal Haemorrhage, Rectal Polyp, Rectal Prolapse, Red Blood Cell Count Decreased, Red Blood Cell Sedimentation Rate Increased, Red Blood Cells Urine Positive, Reflexes Abnormal, Reflux Oesophagitis, Refusal of Treatment By Patient, Refusal of Treatment By Relative, Regressive Behaviour, Regurgitation of Food, Renal Atrophy, Renal Cell Carcinoma Stage Unspecified, Renal Colic, Renal Cyst, Renal Disorder, Renal Failure, Renal Failure Acute, Renal Failure Chronic, Renal Impairment, Renal Injury, Renal Pain, Renal Scan Abnormal, Renal Tubular Disorder, Renal Tubular Necrosis, Repetitive Speech, Respiration Abnormal, Respiratory Arrest, Respiratory Depression, Respiratory Disorder, Respiratory Disorder Neonatal, Respiratory Distress, Respiratory Failure, Respiratory Fume Inhalation Disorder, Respiratory Rate Decreased, Respiratory Rate Increased, Respiratory Tract Infection, Restless Legs Syndrome, Restlessness, Resuscitation, Reticulocyte Count Increased, Retinal Artery Occlusion, Retinal Detachment, Retinal Exudates, Retinal Haemorrhage, Retinal Pigmentation, Retinal Scar, Retinal Vascular Occlusion, Retinal Vascular Thrombosis, Retinal Vasculitis, Retinal Vein Occlusion, Retinal Vein Thrombosis, Retinitis Pigmentosa, Retinopathy, Retroperitoneal Fibrosis, Rhabdomyolysis, Rhabdomyoma, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Rhinitis, Rhinorrhoea, Rhonchi, Rib Fracture, Right Ventricular Failure, Road Traffic Accident, Ruptured Cerebral Aneurysm, Saccadic Eye Movement, Salivary Hypersecretion, Sarcoidosis, Scab, Scar, Schizoaffective Disorder, Schizophrenia, Schizophrenia (Catatonic Type), Schizophrenia (Disorganised Type), Schizophrenia (Paranoid Type), School Refusal, Sciatica, Scotoma, Scrotal Swelling, Sedation, Selective Mutism, Self Esteem Decreased, Self Injurious Behaviour, Self Mutilation, Self-Injurious Ideation, Self-Medication, Sensation of Pressure, Sensory Disturbance, Sepsis, Septic Shock, Serotonin Syndrome, Serum Sickness, Sexual Assault Victim, Sexual Dysfunction, Shift To the Left, Shock, Sick Sinus Syndrome, Sickle Cell Anaemia, Sickle Cell Anaemia With Crisis, Sinoatrial Block, Sinus Arrest, Sinus Arrhythmia, Sinus Bradycardia, Sinus Disorder, Sinus Tachycardia, Sinusitis, Skeletal Injury, Skin Discolouration, Skin Disorder, Skin Exfoliation, Skin Fissures, Skin Graft, Skin Haemorrhage, Skin Infection, Skin Inflammation, Skin Laceration, Skin Lesion, Skin Necrosis, Skin Ulcer, Skin Warm, Sleep Apnoea Syndrome, Sleep Attacks, Sleep Disorder, Sleep Phase Rhythm Disturbance, Sleep Walking, Sluggishness, Small for Dates Baby, Small Intestinal Obstruction, Small Intestine Gangrene, Snoring, Social Avoidant Behaviour, Social Phobia, Social Problem, Soliloquy, Somatoform Disorder, Somnolence, Somnolence Neonatal, Sopor, Speech Disorder, Spermatozoa Morphology Abnormal, Spermatozoa Progressive Motility Abnormal, Spinal Column Stenosis, Spinal Disorder, Spinal Fracture, Spinal Shock, Spleen Congestion, Splenic Artery Aneurysm, Splenic Haematoma, Splenomegaly, Sports Injury, Sputum Abnormal, Sputum Culture Positive, Sputum Discoloured, Squamous Cell Carcinoma, Staphylococcal Bacteraemia, Staphylococcal Infection, Staphylococcal Sepsis, Staring, Stasis Dermatitis, Status Epilepticus, Stem Cell Transplant, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, Stomach Discomfort, Strabismus, Streptococcal Infection, Stress, Stress Symptoms, Stridor, Stupor, Subarachnoid Haemorrhage, Subcutaneous Abscess, Subdural Haematoma, Subdural Haemorrhage, Subdural Hygroma, Subileus, Substance Abuse, Sudden Cardiac Death, Sudden Death, Sudden Hearing Loss, Sudden Unexplained Death In Epilepsy, Suffocation Feeling, Suicidal Ideation, Suicide Attempt, Superior Vena Caval Occlusion, Suppressed Lactation, Supraventricular Extrasystoles, Supraventricular Tachycardia, Surgery, Suspiciousness, Swelling, Swelling Face, Swollen Tongue, Syncope, Syncope Vasovagal, Synovial Cyst, Systemic Candida, Systemic Inflammatory Response Syndrome, Systemic Lupus Erythematosus, Systolic Hypertension, Tachyarrhythmia, Tachycardia, Tachyphylaxis, Tachypnoea, Talipes, Tardive Dyskinesia, Tearfulness, Temperature Intolerance, Temperature Regulation Disorder, Temporal Arteritis, Tenderness, Tendonitis, Tenosynovitis, Tension, Tension Headache, Testicular Pain, Theft, Therapeutic Agent Toxicity, Therapeutic Response Decreased, Therapy Non-Responder, Therapy Regimen Changed, Thermal Burn, Thinking Abnormal, Thirst, Thoracic Vertebra Injury, Thought Blocking, Thought Broadcasting, Throat Cancer, Throat Irritation, Throat Tightness, Thrombocythaemia, Thrombocytopenia, Thrombocytopenic Purpura, Thrombosis, Thrombotic Thrombocytopenic Purpura, Thyroid Atrophy, Thyroid Disorder, Thyroid Function Test Abnormal, Tic, Tinnitus, Toe Amputation, Tongue Disorder, Tongue Injury, Tongue Neoplasm Malignant Stage Unspecified, Tongue Oedema, Tongue Paralysis, Tongue Spasm, Tongue Ulceration, Tonic Convulsion, Tonsillar Disorder, Tonsillitis, Tooth Discolouration, Tooth Disorder, Tooth Loss, Toothache, Torsade De Pointes, Torticollis, Tourette's Disorder, Toxic Dilatation of Colon, Toxic Epidermal Necrolysis, Toxic Skin Eruption, Tracheal Obstruction, Transaminases Increased, Transfusion Reaction, Transfusion-Related Acute Lung Injury, Transient Ischaemic Attack, Transient Tachypnoea of the Newborn, Traumatic Brain Injury, Treatment Noncompliance, Tremor, Tremor Neonatal, Tricuspid Valve Incompetence, Trismus, Trisomy 13, Troponin I Increased, Troponin Increased, Troponin T Increased, Tuberculosis, Ulcer, Ultrasound Antenatal Screen Abnormal, Umbilical Cord Abnormality, Umbilical Cord Around Neck, Umbilical Hernia, Unevaluable Event, Unresponsive To Pain Stimuli, Unresponsive To Verbal Stimuli, Upper Gastrointestinal Haemorrhage, Upper Limb Fracture, Upper Respiratory Tract Infection, Urea Urine Abnormal, Ureteric Stenosis, Urethral Haemorrhage, Urinary Bladder Haemorrhage, Urinary Bladder Rupture, Urinary Incontinence, Urinary Occult Blood Positive, Urinary Retention, Urinary Tract Disorder, Urinary Tract Infection, Urinary Tract Infection Bacterial, Urinary Tract Infection Enterococcal, Urine Analysis Abnormal, Urine Ketone Body Present, Urine Osmolarity Decreased, Urine Output Decreased, Urine Output Increased, Urine Potassium Abnormal, Urosepsis, Urticaria, Urticaria Generalised, Uterine Contractions Abnormal, Uterine Contractions During Pregnancy, Uterine Neoplasm, Uterine Polyp, Uterovaginal Prolapse, Vaginal Haemorrhage, Vaginal Infection, Vaginitis, Vaginitis Bacterial, Vascular Dementia, Vascular Occlusion, Vascular Purpura, Vasculitis, Vasculitis Cerebral, Vasculitis Necrotising, Vasodilatation, Vena Cava Thrombosis, Venous Thrombosis Limb, Ventricular Arrhythmia, Ventricular Dysfunction, Ventricular Extrasystoles, Ventricular Fibrillation, Ventricular Hypertrophy, Ventricular Hypokinesia, Ventricular Tachycardia, Verbal Abuse, Vertebral Artery Stenosis, Vertigo, Vibration Test Abnormal, Victim of Crime, Viral Infection, Vision Blurred, Visual Acuity Reduced, Visual Disturbance, Visual Field Defect, Visual Tracking Test Abnormal, Vitreous Detachment, Vitreous Floaters, Vocal Cord Disorder, Vocal Cord Paralysis, Vocal Cord Paresis, Volvulus, Volvulus of Bowel, Vomiting, Vomiting In Pregnancy, Vomiting Psychogenic, Vulvovaginitis Trichomonal, Water Intoxication, Waxy Flexibility, Weight Decreased, Weight Fluctuation, Weight Increased, Weight Loss Poor, Wernicke's Encephalopathy, Wheezing, White Blood Cell Count, White Blood Cell Count Decreased, White Blood Cell Count Increased, White Blood Cells Urine Positive, Wolff-Parkinson-White Syndrome, Wound, Wound Infection, Wound Necrosis, Wrist Fracture, Wrong Drug Administered, Xerophthalmia, Zinc Sulphate Turbidity Decreased.
Risperdal's top 20 side effects reported to MedWatch between Jan. 2004 and Dec. 2006:
Death - 308 Cases
Diabetes Mellitus - 176 Cases
Drug Interaction - 176 Cases
Increased Weight - 138 Cases
Leukopenia - 124 Cases
Fall - 123 Cases
Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome - 116 Cases
Extrapyramidal Disorder - 109 Cases
Tardive Dyskinesia - 104 Cases
Cerebrovascular Accident - 102 Cases
Convulsion - 99 Cases
Somnolence - 98 Cases
Aggression - 99 Cases
Tremor - 93 Cases
Neutropenia - 91 Cases
Rhabdomyolysis - 88 Cases
Condition Aggravated - 86 Cases
Creatine Phosphokinase Increased - 85 Cases
Psychotic Disorder - 82 Cases
Pneumonia - 82 Cases
The low numbers of Adverse Reactions that actually got reported?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16689555 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16689555)
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There is no more a "gay Gene" than there is a gene that makes a person prefer a blonde over a brunette or a red head.
It's personal preference lain and simple.
Claming there is a "gay gene" is just the latest stunt by the PC LGBTXYZ crowd to try and normalize something that is clearly abnormal.
@txradioguy
Personal preference makes people born with the hair or eye colors they prefer?
DAYUM! I learn something new every day!
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And how much would you pay to never get a cold again? While the industry might loose dollars, the one company finding the "cure" would make dollars.
@thackney
Shhhhhh! Watchoo trying to do,destroy the whole conspiracy industry with logic?
SHAME on you! This interweb thing would cease to exist without conspiracy theories.
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@thackney
Would they? More than likely the other companies would buy it and shut the product down.
@driftdiver
At MOST,temporarily. Chemists and other scientists have egos too (THERE's a shocker,huh!),and rumors would get out. Once people understand something CAN be done,it WILL be done.
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@driftdiver
At MOST,temporarily. Chemists and other scientists have egos too (THERE's a shocker,huh!),and rumors would get out. Once people understand something CAN be done,it WILL be done.
@sneakypete
The only thing more common than conspiracy theories are conspiracy deniers.
Sure a chemist would love to create the cure. Might take them a while to save up the $3b they need to get FDA approval though.
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@sneakypete
The only thing more common than conspiracy theories are conspiracy deniers.
Sure a chemist would love to create the cure. Might take them a while to save up the $3b they need to get FDA approval though.
FDA Approval ain't the big money nut.
https://www.fda.gov/ForIndustry/UserFees/PrescriptionDrugUserFee/ucm152775.htm (https://www.fda.gov/ForIndustry/UserFees/PrescriptionDrugUserFee/ucm152775.htm)
Bribes to get Docs to peddle it for you are.
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FDA Approval ain't the big money nut.
https://www.fda.gov/ForIndustry/UserFees/PrescriptionDrugUserFee/ucm152775.htm (https://www.fda.gov/ForIndustry/UserFees/PrescriptionDrugUserFee/ucm152775.htm)
Bribes to get Docs to peddle it for you are.
bribes and payroll for all those pretty drug reps to sleep with the docs.
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bribes and payroll for all those pretty drug reps to sleep with the docs.
And 6 figure 'Research' Grants to 'Non' - Profit teaching hospitals to discover your drug is good for everything from dandruff to erectile dysfunction.
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The afflictions of the cold for me and my family have been significant. For any of my children to not go through this again, would save them hundreds if not thousands of lost hours.
Fire Cider. A shot a day, and you won't get a cold again. If you do, it will be over fast.
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The question that nearly got me kicked out of a College Physics class:
Fortunstely, we now have confirmation of the answer everyone expected... that the speed of a gravitational wave is the same speed as the speed of light, as predicted by General Relativity.
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Fortunstely, we now have confirmation of the answer everyone expected... that the speed of a gravitational wave is the same speed as the speed of light, as predicted by General Relativity.
Actually, from the reaction of the professor, I'm not so sure that is the answer he expected.
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Fortunstely, we now have confirmation of the answer everyone expected... that the speed of a gravitational wave is the same speed as the speed of light, as predicted by General Relativity.
Bullshit,
Ask CERN.
If you don't have the guts to question everything, then stay silent, like the majority, and rely on the experts. When in fact, when you reach a certain age, YOU ARE THE EXPERT. Word.
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Bullshit,
Ask CERN.
If you don't have the guts to question everything, then stay silent, like the majority, and rely on the experts. When in fact, when you reach a certain age, YOU ARE THE EXPERT. Word.
I thought that was just me being crotchety. (Because damned straight I'm the expert!)