The Briefing Room
General Category => Elections 2024 => Topic started by: Timber Rattler on November 18, 2022, 03:40:03 am
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Trump's Achilles' heel?
https://hotair.com/david-strom/2022/11/17/trumps-achilles-heel-n511817
Donald Trump faces a lot of criticism at the moment, having undoubtedly lost a lot of votes because of his behavior just prior and after the midterm elections.
Anger of some Republican voters toward the former president runs hot and may cost him the nomination in 2024.
Yet it is also the case that Trump has been pronounced politically dead many times in the past, and in most of those cases the cause for the premature Code Blue calls has been his big fat mouth. He has never been able to control his impulses, and has never been a nice guy. This has not stopped his ability to hold onto support. Is something different this time?
He survived because even his supporters who wanted him to shut his trap also liked his policies and willingness to fight against a common enemy: the Establishment™. It was a bargain: you fight for us, we forgive your verbal diarrhea. The partnership was transactional for many voters.
Trump has an Achilles’ heel in this regard, and expect to see quite a bit of focus on it. Lots of arrows will be fired at his vulnerable heel. Some are likely to hit.
The target? Trump’s response to COVID was simply awful. He did exactly the wrong thing at exactly the wrong time, pushed all the worst Establishment folks to the top of the policymaking heap, and actively aided them in destroying his chance to get reelected. Trump was forced to choose between good policy and bad, courageous leaders and bureaucrats, and he chose wrongly. It was his undoing in 2020, and could be his undoing in 2024.
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Trump’s response to COVID was simply awful. He did exactly the wrong thing at exactly the wrong time, pushed all the worst Establishment folks to the top of the policymaking heap, and actively aided them in destroying his chance to get reelected. Trump was forced to choose between good policy and bad, courageous leaders and bureaucrats, and he chose wrongly.
Spot on.
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Gotta love monday morning quarterbacks... they are so very smart...
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Gotta love monday morning quarterbacks... they are so very smart...
No, most of us (especially small business owners) knew, right then and there, that once everything was shutdown, then government inertia, medical hysteria, powerplays, and presidential politics would keep it shut down indefinitely. If Trump had been a better politician, he would have seen the trap too. But he didn't, and the country is STILL in that same state of emergency, almost three years later, and Biden will extend it again on January 11, 2023.
It all started with Trump.
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No, most of us (especially small business owners) knew, right then and there, that once everything was shutdown, then government inertia, medical hysteria, powerplays, and presidential politics would keep it shut down indefinitely. If Trump had been a better politician, he would have seen the trap too. But he didn't, and the country is STILL in that same state of emergency, almost three years later, and Biden will extend it again on January 11, 2023.
It all started with Trump.
:thumbsup:
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No, most of us (especially small business owners) knew, right then and there, that once everything was shutdown, then government inertia, medical hysteria, powerplays, and presidential politics would keep it shut down indefinitely. If Trump had been a better politician, he would have seen the trap too. But he didn't, and the country is STILL in that same state of emergency, almost three years later, and Biden will extend it again on January 11, 2023.
It all started with Trump.
Governors did the long term shutdowns... not Trump
If you have evidence otherwise, I would like to see it..
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Governors did the long term shutdowns... not Trump
If you have evidence otherwise, I would like to see it..
At the time, I was working for the oil business. I was issued a pass by the Department of Homeland Security declaring me an 'essential worker' so that I could not be arrested travelling to or from site. So yes, there was federal involvement.
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Governors did the long term shutdowns... not Trump
If you have evidence otherwise, I would like to see it..
Trump enabled them politically by publicly giving the CDC the OK on March 29 (as seen in the video above) to do what it ultimately did. He owns it all, dude! And he can't walk away from it now, no matter how hard he tries..
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Trumps Achilles heal is his big fat mouth, same as always.
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Trump enabled them politically by publicly giving the CDC the OK on March 29 (as seen in the video above) to do what it ultimately did. He owns it all, dude! And he can't walk away from it now, no matter how hard he tries..
The entire fu*cking world shut down --- businesses, air travel, cruise ships couldn't find ports, countries closed their borders, whole cities were quarentined in Europe, Asia and Australia.
Trump relayed CDC recommendations and left it to each governor to decide what steps to take in his or her state. Some states never locked down, some states locked down, some states locked down and locked out.
I know you hate the guy @Timber Rattler --- but stick to whining about mean tweets instead of trying so damn hard to rewrite history.
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But he didn't, and the country is STILL in that same state of emergency, almost three years later, and Biden will extend it again on January 11, 2023.
This is on your pal, Joey.
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Gotta love monday morning quarterbacks... they are so very smart...
There is some Monday morning quarterbacking going on
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There is some Monday morning quarterbacking going on
I'm more focused on the source of the problem rather than the problem itself. Sure, hindsight can be unfair. One may argue that it was the establishment-type bureaucrats surrounding Trump that did the bad deeds. But the point here is that those establishment hacks should never have gained entry into Trump's inner circle to begin with.
It all goes back to 2015-2016 when Trump's ardent supporters were trying to convince everyone that Trump was a 'drain-the-swamp' guy, when nothing could have been further from the truth. And their continued denial of this fact continues to poison the debate today.
Think about that. The same Justice Department that spied on his campaign in 2016 was the exact same Justice Department at the wheel in 2020. And that was after four years of Mr. 'Drain-the-Swamp' at the helm. I truly wish that Trump had really been a swamp drainer. But the history shows that he was not. So the failure to hold NIH accountable for the lab leak, the daily Fauci false briefings, and the tens of billions flowing to Pfizer and Moderna to fund a giant mRNA experiment falls on the person who not only allowed it, but did not lift a finger to stop it.
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Didn’t he also go after GOP governors for opening their states “too soon?”
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He was in charge.
There was no science to indicate masks of any kind did anything useful to prevent the spread of a respiratory virus. There were many studies done prior to COVID-19 - and they all showed the same thing, masks had very little affect.
There was no science to suggest 6' distancing or a plastic divider at a counter made any difference whatsoever indoors. The air in a building is moving and easily flows around isles and barriers.
The only ones slightly protected from shutdowns of schools were the elderly teachers - but they were going to get infected sooner or later - and at what cost to the students? Young people were not seriously affected by COVID-19 short of those who had some serious medical condition prior.
He chose to follow the lifelong bureaucrats instead of lead. He had access to any experts he wanted for different views on "the science" and how to respond. He could have made adjustments along the way.
When you are the one in charge the buck stops with you. That was his job.
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He was in charge.
There was no science to indicate masks of any kind did anything useful to prevent the spread of a respiratory virus. There were many studies done prior to COVID-19 - and they all showed the same thing, masks had very little affect.
There was no science to suggest 6' distancing or a plastic divider at a counter made any difference whatsoever indoors. The air in a building is moving and easily flows around isles and barriers.
The only ones slightly protected from shutdowns of schools were the elderly teachers - but they were going to get infected sooner or later - and at what cost to the students? Young people were not seriously affected by COVID-19 short of those who had some serious medical condition prior.
He chose to follow the lifelong bureaucrats instead of lead. He had access to any experts he wanted for different views on "the science" and how to respond. He could have made adjustments along the way.
When you are the one in charge the buck stops with you. That was his job.
Trump is an expert in finance and business but he never ever claimed to be a medical expert to try and override the input from thousands of medical "experts" to the delight of the media and socialists...
Most of the problem we have is to many "experts" in areas they know nothing about.
When Rand Paul started raising the flag on all of this, he took a severe beating in the media and from pelosi/schumer/et al....
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Trump is an expert in finance and business but he never ever claimed to be a medical expert to try and override the input from thousands of medical "experts" to the delight of the media and socialists...
Most of the problem we have is to many "experts" in areas they know nothing about.
When Rand Paul started raising the flag on all of this, he took a severe beating in the media and from pelosi/schumer/et al....
I understand that. But he could call anyone he wanted to get advice from. That was his job, to collect information, weigh it and make an informed decision. That's what we elect people to do.
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I understand that. But he could call anyone he wanted to get advice from. That was his job, to collect information, weigh it and make an informed decision. That's what we elect people to do.
Bingo.
Also consider the 'vaccine' [sic]. Trump wanted to be the guy who saved the world against Covid. And he widely took credit for the development of the jab. But now that the jab has proven to be a massively expensive failure (and a boon to all those politicians and bureaucrats holding Pfizer stock), you never hear him bring that up. You can't have it both ways.
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I understand that. But he could call anyone he wanted to get advice from. That was his job, to collect information, weigh it and make an informed decision. That's what we elect people to do.
Which is why, as a rule, governors make better presidents
And, until proven otherwise, I still predict our next nominee and president on the Republican side will be one of the governors
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Trump is an expert in finance and business but he never ever claimed to be a medical expert to try and override the input from thousands of medical "experts" to the delight of the media and socialists...
He wasn't an expert on immigration either. But that didn't stop him from all his 'build the wall' rhetoric (or his support of amnesty in 2015).
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Which is why, as a rule, governors make better presidents
And, until proven otherwise, I still predict our next nominee and president on the Republican side will be one of the governors
I sure hope so.
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Which is why, as a rule, governors make better presidents
It is true that those with Executive experience fare far better than Legislators such as the last two Democrats we had. Even though Trump wasn't a governor, you would expect him to effectively navigate the bureaucracy he inherited. But it became clear that that was not to happen when he appointed Priebus as Chief of Staff. Trump often spoke of bringing in the best and the brightest. But that never materialized.
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He was in charge.
There was no science to indicate masks of any kind did anything useful to prevent the spread of a respiratory virus. There were many studies done prior to COVID-19 - and they all showed the same thing, masks had very little affect.
There was no science to suggest 6' distancing or a plastic divider at a counter made any difference whatsoever indoors. The air in a building is moving and easily flows around isles and barriers.
The only ones slightly protected from shutdowns of schools were the elderly teachers - but they were going to get infected sooner or later - and at what cost to the students? Young people were not seriously affected by COVID-19 short of those who had some serious medical condition prior.
He chose to follow the lifelong bureaucrats instead of lead. He had access to any experts he wanted for different views on "the science" and how to respond. He could have made adjustments along the way.
When you are the one in charge the buck stops with you. That was his job.
Oh come on..... Noone knew what to do. There were thousands of people dying horrible deaths and everyone was scared to death. In hindsight of course there were some horrendous mistakes. I took both shots trying to protect my 90+ year old mom from dying alone in the hospital. In hindsight I wouldn't have taken either.
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I took both shots trying to protect my 90+ year old mom from dying alone in the hospital. In hindsight I wouldn't have taken either.
You didn't take the shots to protect your mother. You took the shots because government would have denied you the right to see her (see: Amendment I - Freedom of Assembly) without the shots. I certainly know I was denied that right.
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I understand that. But he could call anyone he wanted to get advice from. That was his job, to collect information, weigh it and make an informed decision. That's what we elect people to do.
Call??? Mythbusters?
With states decertifying medical professionals across the country that said anything contrary to the socialist position, call who??
Even if he found someone it then becomes my expert vs your expert... loosing proposition with the media against you.
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Oh come on..... Noone knew what to do. There were thousands of people dying horrible deaths and everyone was scared to death. In hindsight of course there were some horrendous mistakes. I took both shots trying to protect my 90+ year old mom from dying alone in the hospital. In hindsight I wouldn't have taken either.
I knew it was bullcrap from the get-go. And so did Tumpy. When he was healed of it by hydroxychloroquine... He KNEW it was bullcrap to outlaw those antivirals that worked on him. But he folded like a 2 dollar lawn chair. They hacked him in the press and he shut right up and started pimping for the lockdown and the jab.
And the antivirals, that predictably could have saved millions for pennies, remained outlawed. While that jab will wind up killing and maiming many, on top of being ineffective and dooming many to death.
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I sure hope so.
I think the Trump in 2024 is going to fizzle out
You don’t see the Democrats clamoring for another Hillary round
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Oh come on..... Noone knew what to do. There were thousands of people dying horrible deaths and everyone was scared to death. In hindsight of course there were some horrendous mistakes. I took both shots trying to protect my 90+ year old mom from dying alone in the hospital. In hindsight I wouldn't have taken either.
Not knowing what to do and doing things that had no actual science to support them just to do something are two very different things.
The only potentially justifiable rule to shut an area down - to slow the spread - was if the medical community in that area was completely overwhelmed. And that should have been determined on a local basis. Everyone was going to get it sooner or later. The idea that you could hide from it indefinitely was total crap and should have never been peddled.
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You don’t see the Democrats clamoring for another Hillary round
By this time next year, you will see the press giving Trump non-stop free publicity on his election campaign just as they did back in 2015-2016. The Dems want Trump to be the nominee.
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From my view point, Trump is not the issue. No matter who the top dog is in the GOP is going to get the same treatment.
The lies, hysteria, allegations, investigations from the media, dems and the fed gov..... the whole magilla so if Trump falls by the wayside (for whatever reason), the lions will just move their operation to the next target so just don't pick a lamb...
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From my view point, Trump is not the issue. No matter who the top dog is in the GOP is going to get the same treatment.
That's why we need someone in office who doesn't give a damn what the enemy thinks. Someone who will place tight restrictions on what each department can spend. Someone who isn't afraid to have leftover money sitting in the Treasury at the end of the year. Someone who knows the meaning of "You're fired!" and isn't afraid to say it.
Trump could have been that guy. But he chose otherwise.
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I knew it was bullcrap from the get-go. And so did Tumpy. When he was healed of it by hydroxychloroquine... He KNEW it was bullcrap to outlaw those antivirals that worked on him. But he folded like a 2 dollar lawn chair. They hacked him in the press and he shut right up and started pimping for the lockdown and the jab.
And the antivirals, that predictably could have saved millions for pennies, remained outlawed. While that jab will wind up killing and maiming many, on top of being ineffective and dooming many to death.
Yes eventually Trump figured out that what he was being fed was a bunch of bull. Fauci, the CDC, FDA and the WHO, IMHO are the ones who shut Trump down. He tried on several occasions to combat what they were selling. Facui and others along with the MSM forced his hand.
Trump left the lockdowns up to the states and he rapidly implemented all the guidelines (masks,equipment, etc.) that he was told was needed.
Sorry, but I blame Fauci and Biden and CHINA. We cannot forget their involvement.
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Bingo.
Also consider the 'vaccine' [sic]. Trump wanted to be the guy who saved the world against Covid. And he widely took credit for the development of the jab. But now that the jab has proven to be a massively expensive failure (and a boon to all those politicians and bureaucrats holding Pfizer stock), you never hear him bring that up. You can't have it both ways.
Trump taps Pence to head up coronavirus outbreak response
Updated on: February 27, 2020 / 10:45 AM / CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-trump-pence-outbreak-epidemic-press-conference/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-trump-pence-outbreak-epidemic-press-conference/)
Pence, As Coronavirus Task Force Head, Aims To Show He Can Manage A Crisis
April 28, 20205:01 AM ET
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/28/846919781/pence-as-coronavirus-task-force-head-aims-to-show-he-can-manage-a-crisis (https://www.npr.org/2020/04/28/846919781/pence-as-coronavirus-task-force-head-aims-to-show-he-can-manage-a-crisis)
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Yes eventually Trump figured out that what he was being fed was a bunch of bull. Fauci, the CDC, FDA and the WHO, IMHO are the ones who shut Trump down. He tried on several occasions to combat what they were selling. Facui and others along with the MSM forced his hand.
Trump left the lockdowns up to the states and he rapidly implemented all the guidelines (masks,equipment, etc.) that he was told was needed.
Sorry, but I blame Fauci and Biden and CHINA. We cannot forget their involvement.
Agreed. Fauci knew the real origins of the lab created bug, he'd financed it. That he and certain Democrats maintained crisis (by vilifying treatments), promoted panic, and pushed mRNA shots, puts the onus back on the CDC NIAID, FDA, and the WHO along with the Chinese.
Coomo said he needed ventilators, Trump got them made (even though Cuomo didn't really need them) along with field hospitals and hospital ships on both coasts. While Trump was moving mountains, the directions for what was needed and where were provided by the "experts". and then....
Trump taps Pence to head up coronavirus outbreak response
By Kathryn Watson
Updated on: February 27, 2020 / 10:45 AM / CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-trump-pence-outbreak-epidemic-press-conference/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-trump-pence-outbreak-epidemic-press-conference/)
Let's give credit where it is really due.
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I knew it was bullcrap from the get-go. And so did Tumpy. When he was healed of it by hydroxychloroquine... He KNEW it was bullcrap to outlaw those antivirals that worked on him. But he folded like a 2 dollar lawn chair. They hacked him in the press and he shut right up and started pimping for the lockdown and the jab.
And the antivirals, that predictably could have saved millions for pennies, remained outlawed. While that jab will wind up killing and maiming many, on top of being ineffective and dooming many to death.
When you're right you're right and on this you most certainly are @roamer_1
And BTW: Some here were blowing the whistle on the COVID hoax hard and loud from day one!
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Yes eventually Trump figured out that what he was being fed was a bunch of bull. Fauci, the CDC, FDA and the WHO, IMHO are the ones who shut Trump down. He tried on several occasions to combat what they were selling. Facui and others along with the MSM forced his hand.
Agree.
Trump followed the Constitution giving the decision making to the states ---- all of it, including masks and distancing guidelines. Many states pushed all or part of the decision making to local municipalities.
Trump and his administration worked with state governments on the acquisition of medical PPEs and medical treatment equipment ---- and formed government and private sector business partnerships to speed production and distribution.
Trump never made any CDC/FDA/WHO recommendation mandatory --- not lockdowns, not private use PPEs, not social guidelines, not vaccines.
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I knew it was bullcrap from the get-go. And so did Tumpy. When he was healed of it by hydroxychloroquine... He KNEW it was bullcrap to outlaw those antivirals ....
The battle for oversight of FDA approval powers has been a long, ongoing one; and the FDA continues to win --
Cruz Calls for Major Overhaul of FDA
Regulatory News, Dec 11, 2015
Republican presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz (TX) and Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) on Friday introduced a bill that would completely overhaul the way the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) operates.
More specifically, the “Reciprocity Ensures Streamlined Use of Lifesaving Treatments Act (S. 2388), or the RESULT Act,” would:
* allow for reciprocal approval of drugs, devices and biologics from foreign sponsors in EU member countries, Israel, Australia, Canada and Japan
* require FDA to make a decision on “life-saving” drug and device applications within 30 days
* allow Congress to override FDA denials of certain applications for life-saving drugs with a majority vote via a joint resolution
“Our legislation will unleash life-saving drugs and devices in the United States, help mitigate critical drug shortages in the US, and put downward pressure on the prices of medical devices and drugs as well,” Cruz said in a statement.
More: https://www.raps.org/regulatory-focus%E2%84%A2/news-articles/2015/12/cruz-calls-for-major-overhaul-of-fda
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Trump never made any CDC/FDA/WHO recommendation mandatory --- not lockdowns, not private use PPEs, not social guidelines, not vaccines.
So the buck doesn't stop with the President?
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So the buck doesn't stop with the President?
To: the Administrators of this forum
If you allow a complete piece of garbage troll like this "timber rattler" to post her/(maybe his)/(most likely 'it') neocon warmongering garbage here, then kindly delete my account. Thanks for the opportunity to participate, but I can no longer be here in good conscience if a filthy piece of trash is given a forum for expression here.
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So the buck doesn't stop with the President?
The PRESIDENT has absolutely no control over ANY of those organizations! But you knew that already didn't you troll?
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To: the Administrators of this forum
If you allow a complete piece of garbage troll like this "timber rattler" to post her/(maybe his)/(most likely 'it') neocon warmongering garbage here, then kindly delete my account. Thanks for the opportunity to participate, but I can no longer be here in good conscience if a filthy piece of trash is given a forum for expression here.
Well that didn't take long for such a warm welcome back! :bighug:
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The PRESIDENT has absolutely no control over ANY of those organizations! But you knew that already didn't you troll?
But he does...by authorizing the CDC to proceed with those "flatten-the-curve" guidelines on March 29, and then extending them in April, Trump enabled every liberal governor and every would-be state and local dictator to lockdown the country and impose all those awful restrictions we've had to live with and suffer from ever since that day.
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But he does...by authorizing the CDC to proceed with those "flatten-the-curve" guidelines on March 29, and then extending them in April, Trump enabled every liberal governor and every would-be state and local dictator to lockdown the country and impose all those awful restrictions we've had to live with and suffer from ever since that day.
BOVINE FECAL MATTER! 100%
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But he does...by authorizing the CDC to proceed with those "flatten-the-curve" guidelines on March 29, and then extending them in April, Trump enabled every liberal governor and every would-be state and local dictator to lockdown the country and impose all those awful restrictions we've had to live with and suffer from ever since that day.
So, based on your statement, all governors await the presidents directive to do anything, liberal or otherwise? That means that Biden told DeSantis to send those illegals to Martha's Vineyard?
I think you are twisting reality to feed your hatred of Trump..
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So, based on your statement, all governors await the presidents directive to do anything, liberal or otherwise? That means that Biden told DeSantis to send those illegals to Martha's Vineyard?
I think you are twisting reality to feed your hatred of Trump..
They needed that political cover from CDC, authorized by Trump, to proceed with the lockdowns. Remember how they ALWAYS cited those CDC "guidelines" to justify every totalitarian action they took beginning on March 29, 2020. If Trump had not given them that cover through his "15 Days to Flatten the Curve" directive, then things would like have turned out very differently. But he did. The buck stops with the President, and he can't pass it back down to the governors. It doesn't work that way.
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Didn’t he also go after GOP governors for opening their states “too soon?”
Yes and he trashed Sweden for remaining open. Many of us were saying the government response was hysterical, but he sided with Fauci until the bitter end.
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To: the Administrators of this forum
If you allow a complete piece of garbage troll like this "timber rattler" to post her/(maybe his)/(most likely 'it') neocon warmongering garbage here, then kindly delete my account. Thanks for the opportunity to participate, but I can no longer be here in good conscience if a filthy piece of trash is given a forum for expression here.
Seriously???
So I guess I'm "a complete piece of garbage troll" too...
Just wow...
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To: the Administrators of this forum
If you allow a complete piece of garbage troll like this "timber rattler" to post her/(maybe his)/(most likely 'it') neocon warmongering garbage here, then kindly delete my account. Thanks for the opportunity to participate, but I can no longer be here in good conscience if a filthy piece of trash is given a forum for expression here.
It's as easy as putting them on "ignore". @art.prout
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They needed that political cover from CDC, authorized by Trump, to proceed with the lockdowns. Remember how they ALWAYS cited those CDC "guidelines" to justify every totalitarian action they took beginning on March 29, 2020. If Trump had not given them that cover through his "15 Days to Flatten the Curve" directive, then things would like have turned out very differently. But he did. The buck stops with the President, and he can't pass it back down to the governors. It doesn't work that way.
States have their own health departments. It’s they that have the responsibility and obligation to assess their own citizens public health risks.
Ours is a federal government system, not one of a national government that states must answer to.
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States have their own health departments. It’s they that have the responsibility and obligation to assess their own citizens public health risks.
Ours is a federal government system, not one of a national government that states must answer to.
Here's Trump's press conference where it all started:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWvbLKgpQlM
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Here's Trump's press conference where it all started:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWvbLKgpQlM
Wow....15 days that ended up being 2 years. I remember staying at home for months...seeing people on tv disinfecting their groceries on the porch before letting them in the house...not having Thanksgiving or Christmas. I did lose a handful of friends. A good friend died and they had no funeral...That was a pretty crappy 2 years.
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Note that he says he contacted the governors and organized the lockdown.
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Wow....15 days that ended up being 2 years. I remember staying at home for months...seeing people on tv disinfecting their groceries on the porch before letting them in the house...not having Thanksgiving or Christmas. I did lose a handful of friends. A good friend died and they had no funeral...That was a pretty crappy 2 years.
Yes, Trump held many press conferences but remember he relied on information from the CDC, WHO, Fauci and Birx. They advised him on the "flattening the curve" and when he began to question what was going on they shut him down and by that time those mentioned above had terrified the public into believing that we were all going to die if we didn't flatten the curve, etc., etc. You know the rest.
Trump ultimately left the shutdowns up to the individual states. Perhaps one of the wisest directives he gave.
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I don't really blame Trump for the initial lockdowns. No president could have resisted the CDC and MSM at that point. They would have led every program with "Trump killed another X-thousand people today...." I said this in an article I wrote for American Thinker at the time. It is amazing how well this article has stood the test of time, even if I say so myself.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html)
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States have their own health departments. It’s they that have the responsibility and obligation to assess their own citizens public health risks.
Ours is a federal government system, not one of a national government that states must answer to.
Except in the case of a State of Emergency, which we've been under for YEARS.
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Note that he says he contacted the governors and organized the lockdown.
Organized or mandated?? Big difference.
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Organized or mandated?? Big difference.
It opened the door. That's the big difference.
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It opened the door. That's the big difference.
Again, Trump ultimately left it up to the States to shutdown which was the correct thing to do. Yes he called the governors through conference calls and discussed the shutdown; it was still the governors' choice. TX and FL I believe were the last states to shutdown and the first to open back up. I know DeSantis took a lot of criticism for opening back up, and did it in phases but rather quickly.
Trump did not issue a mandate.
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I don't really blame Trump for the initial lockdowns. No president could have resisted the CDC and MSM at that point. They would have led every program with "Trump killed another X-thousand people today...." I said this in an article I wrote for American Thinker at the time. It is amazing how well this article has stood the test of time, even if I say so myself.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html)
888high58888
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Well that didn't take long for such a warm welcome back! :bighug:
My computer crashed...am not going to converse per my cellphone...
Fingers too stumpy!
Lucky for you...lucky for a half-dozen other posers around here.
Finally...lucky for me!
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I don't really blame Trump for the initial lockdowns. No president could have resisted the CDC and MSM at that point. They would have led every program with "Trump killed another X-thousand people today...." I said this in an article I wrote for American Thinker at the time. It is amazing how well this article has stood the test of time, even if I say so myself.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html)
You were right then and are still right today @massadvj
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A good executive asks questions that require answers before taking action.
What are the goals? What is the cost of trying to meet these goals. Does one size fit all? How do we know we met the goals? How do we make course corrections based on what we learn along the way?
The first required assumption is that virtually everyone is going to get it - sooner or later. That you can't hide from it indefinitely. Based on that, the sooner healthy people get it and get immunity to it the better. They are no longer vectors for transmission and the sooner normalcy can return.
Regarding higher risk people, you do try to slow things down voluntarily in that group, enough that hospitals/health providers are not completely overrun. That way everyone gets treated as well as we know how to. That should have been a local decision based on local conditions and not one size fits all.
The federal government's mission should have been to facilitate resources directed where needed.
Trump did facilitate resources which was good, but not much else.
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A good executive asks questions that require answers before taking action.
What are the goals? What is the cost of trying to meet these goals. Does one size fit all? How do we know we met the goals? How do we make course corrections based on what we learn along the way?
The first required assumption is that virtually everyone is going to get it - sooner or later. That you can't hide from it indefinitely. Based on that, the sooner healthy people get it and get immunity to it the better. They are no longer vectors for transmission and the sooner normalcy can return.
Regarding higher risk people, you do try to slow things down voluntarily in that group, enough that hospitals/health providers are not completely overrun. That way everyone gets treated as well as we know how to. That should have been a local decision based on local conditions and not one size fits all.
The federal government's mission should have been to facilitate resources directed where needed.
Trump did facilitate resources which was good, but not much else.
No president in the history of our country has had to deal with a pandemic. I applaud Trump for his actions and efforts and he saved lives. Yes, the pandemic cost money and tanked the economy; that was the plan of Biden, China, Fauci, DEMS, the WHO, and the CDC to take Trump down and steal an election. You can rant and rave and try to blame Trump, but I will never place blame for the way he handled the pandemic at his feet. Never. Trump did well for this country.
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So the argument is, no one in government is accountable.
The executive isn't responsible for the executive branch of government. They are just a figurehead. And if that's the case, why bother to fight for one.
Trump was going to get blamed for all the deaths one way or another - and did. My beef is he didn't lead, he followed. What's the point of an executive if they won't lead like one. Extraordinary times need extraordinary leaders. Some rise to the need, others don't.
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I don't really blame Trump for the initial lockdowns. No president could have resisted the CDC and MSM at that point. They would have led every program with "Trump killed another X-thousand people today...." I said this in an article I wrote for American Thinker at the time. It is amazing how well this article has stood the test of time, even if I say so myself.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html)
Well the fact of the matter is he got blamed for the deaths anyway. He didn't escape blame by following the bureaucrats taking the safe route.
The bottom line of this argument is no one in government is accountable. That the executive doesn't lead the executive branch. That these executive agencies have no superiors.
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Well the fact of the matter is he got blamed for the deaths anyway. He didn't escape blame by following the bureaucrats taking the safe route.
The bottom line of this argument is no one in government is accountable. That the executive doesn't lead the executive branch. That these executive agencies have no superiors.
Trump exuded extreme leadership. He did not dictate to the states. He held numerous press conferences to inform the public as to what was going on. He is NOT responsible for the lies of Fauci and Biden. We are a free people and have rights under the Constitution. We are supposed to hold our politicians accountable through free and fair elections. Of course Trump got blamed but that changes nothing.
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To: the Administrators of this forum
If you allow a complete piece of garbage troll like this "timber rattler" to post her/(maybe his)/(most likely 'it') neocon warmongering garbage here, then kindly delete my account. Thanks for the opportunity to participate, but I can no longer be here in good conscience if a filthy piece of trash is given a forum for expression here.
@art.prout
Why not point out disagreement with what was said instead of going after the messenger? This isn't the GroupthinkBriefingRoom. If Groupthink is what you are looking for, you know where to find it.
Instead of launching personal attacks, why not instead engage in debate and critical thought. If the poster really is 'garbage', then you should have no difficulty besting him. The fact that you chose not to do so provides a hint that maybe his arguments are valid after all.
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Wow....15 days that ended up being 2 years. I remember staying at home for months...seeing people on tv disinfecting their groceries on the porch before letting them in the house...not having Thanksgiving or Christmas.
It was also two years of people being denied the right to treat Covid with long established and proven treatments. The only thing our FDA/CDC/NIH Pfizer stock holders offered was to check yourself into a hospital and die.
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The PRESIDENT has absolutely no control over ANY of those organizations!
BS. The President is the Chief Executive Officer. He can fire any unelected person he wants within the Executive Branch. Sure, there may be a grievance or financial cost to it. But he can definitely get rid of anyone. (See: Billy Dale - Clinton Travel Office)
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States have their own health departments. It’s they that have the responsibility and obligation to assess their own citizens public health risks.
Ours is a federal government system, not one of a national government that states must answer to.
The blocking of anti-parasitics as a treatment for Covid occurred at the Federal level, not the State level. The refusal of hospitals to admit non-vaccinated patients also occurred at the Federal level.
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No president in the history of our country has had to deal with a pandemic.
Uh, that's not entirely accurate...
"Woodrow Wilson Got the Flu in a Pandemic During the World War I Peace Talks"
https://www.history.com/news/woodrow-wilson-1918-pandemic-world-war-i
Past Pandemics
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/basics/past-pandemics.html
The Worst Outbreaks in U.S. History
https://www.healthline.com/health/worst-disease-outbreaks-history
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It was also two years of people being denied the right to treat Covid with long established and proven treatments. The only thing our FDA/CDC/NIH Pfizer stock holders offered was to check yourself into a hospital and die.
THAT is the raw truth.
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THAT is the raw truth.
Really? In Texas I walked right into Tractor Supply and purchased Ivermectin. My Dr. recommended it.
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Really? In Texas I walked right into Tractor Supply and purchased Ivermectin. My Dr. recommended it.
Me too - less the doctor. Reduced to buying veterinary medicine (which was also shamed loudly) is not support of antivirals. That's called an end-run around the a**holes making it rare to find.
Because they outlawed it, which rubbed me wrong, and because I didn't listen, and because I found access, I don't know anyone who died from COVID. A flat none.
My liberal sister knows a dozen in her immediate circle, and dozens more beyond that.
ALL those people did not have to die. And everyone who made antivirals rare deserve everything the law can throw at em. Millions have died, and died horribly and alone, for no better reason than filthy lucre and political gain. Sonsabiches, every one. Including Tumpy. That cannot be forgiven or rewarded.
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And that goes further after that... to the jab. My sister already knows three healthy people who died unexpectedly of heart trouble. Three friends who dropped dead.
I know none.
Them sonsabiches.
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Really? In Texas I walked right into Tractor Supply and purchased Ivermectin. My Dr. recommended it.
Your doctor recommended it because he knew that if he wrote you a script for it, no pharmacist would have filled it. And the reason no pharmacist would fill it is because they would have lost out on bigtime federal money if they did.
The fact that you had to purchase animal grade ivermectin instead of having the people version available to you proves my point.
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Really? In Texas I walked right into Tractor Supply and purchased Ivermectin. My Dr. recommended it.
In most places your doctor would not have. Here, they would not.
Doctors attempting to prescribe Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine were on someone's sh*t list.
My mother had been taking Hydroxychloroquine for years for RA, (how I knew something was wrong with the narrative being pushed) but instead of getting her standard 90 day refill, could barely get 30 day scrips.
That unavailability, even for known and well established off label uses was no accident.
Doctors who recommended/ prescribed HCQ of IVM were under attack, and many simply would not even discuss it, rather than lose their admitting privileges at hospitals.
That indicates a coordinated effort within the medical community to 'ban' these drugs and, in doing so, the regimens which used them. Had enough people been able to officially obtain the HCQ/Azithromycin/Zinc or IVM/doxycycline/zinc regimens on demand, there would have been a recorded database of people who had been successfully treated, no PANIC, no lockdowns, school would have continued for kids, millions would have kept their jobs, etc., (and the dems would have had a harder time stealing elections in 2020).
Even more reason, however, there would have been no panic, something Trump was trying to alleviate, but others in the media, political, and medical community were promoting as hard as they could. Because the push was for vaccines from the top of the Medical Establishment (CDC, NIAID, WHO, FDA) the efficacy of such treatments could not become a matter of record. The seriously bad (two retracted from major medical journals would flunk middle school science fair bad) studies purporting to show the HCQ and IVM protocols as ineffective or harmful were waved about as if they were valid assessments of the protocols in early onset COVID, and the push for the jabs was on.
Interestingly, as one not bashful about using veterinary antibiotics, the prime source for fish antibiotics (Thomas Laboratories) which came in the same dosages and identical capsules as human antibiotics, stopped producing common antibiotics for pets. From simple penicillin to Cipro, Clindamycin, Keflex, azithromycin, doxycycline, and others, the supply of antibiotics which would work just fine in humans but did not require a physician's prescription because they were for pets, simply dried up. Done, gone, out of stock.
So the difficulty in taking what the Medical Establishment claimed didn't work (just look at the deeply flawed studies--or better yet, to preserve the narrative, read the summary and not the actual study) went up a notch.
I, too, obtained ivermectin at Tractor Supply, (face it, horses were/are worth more in the leftist mindset than humans), did the math on the per pound dosage in a tube of it, and figured the by unit weight dosage for horses is the same as for humans (0.2 mg/kg). I took it when I had COVID, was well inside a week. I went to the walk-in clinic for lung crud, was prescribed doxycycline, was tested, went home and took IVM/Doxy/Zn, with D3 and Vitamin C supplements too, and got well. Test results came in 5 days later, about two days before I considered myself well enough to return to normal activities.
The Doxycycline was the hardest part to get (when before it would have been easy).
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Well the fact of the matter is he got blamed for the deaths anyway. He didn't escape blame by following the bureaucrats taking the safe route.
The bottom line of this argument is no one in government is accountable. That the executive doesn't lead the executive branch. That these executive agencies have no superiors.
I think Trump trusted the establishment way more than he should have, and I would bet he would agree in retrospect.
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You were right then and are still right today @massadvj
@Bigun
Nice of you to notice, Earl. BTW I am back in Texas for the winter. You might have noticed I brought the weather with me.
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@Bigun
Nice of you to notice, Earl. BTW I am back in Texas for the winter. You might have noticed I brought the weather with me.
I am currently in Texas and it’s cold, windy, and rainy
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I don't really blame Trump for the initial lockdowns. No president could have resisted the CDC and MSM at that point. They would have led every program with "Trump killed another X-thousand people today...." I said this in an article I wrote for American Thinker at the time. It is amazing how well this article has stood the test of time, even if I say so myself.
@massadvj
Please post the link to the article you've written on the implications of the handling of the pandemic since Jan 20, 2021 --- would love to read it.
Thanks.
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@art.prout
Please, reconsider. :crossed:
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I know we haven't had an Ivermectin discussion in quite a while, but after our English Bulldog died (not the recent one, but 10 years ago), i found that Ivermectin has a very strong correlation to seizures, especially with certain breeds.
This even after very carefully administering the dosage as guided by our Veterinarian. As much as I now don't trust the COVID Vax (I've had the first two rounds plus a booster) I sure don't want to take something that has even less study with human subjects.
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@massadvj
Please post the link to the article you've written on the implications of the handling of the pandemic since Jan 20, 2021 --- would love to read it.
Thanks.
@Right_in_Virginia The ink was right there below my original post. Here it is.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html
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@Right_in_Virginia The ink was right there below my original post. Here it is.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html)
@massadvj
Great write up... The other part that is not being discuss is how vulnerable the US was for 2 years to an military attack which worries me more than the virus.
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@massadvj
Great write up... The other part that is not being discuss is how vulnerable the US was for 2 years to an military attack which worries me more than the virus.
There are many things brought about by the COVID hoax that should worry any right thinking person more than the virus @EdinVA
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@massadvj
Great write up... The other part that is not being discuss is how vulnerable the US was for 2 years to an military attack which worries me more than the virus.
The attack has already begun. The first battles are in Ukraine, under proxy.
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@Right_in_Virginia The ink was right there below my original post. Here it is.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/covid19_the_security_implications.html
I read this @massadvj ----- and thought it was quite well done. But this was written on Apr 7, 2020, and I'm wondering if you've written a sequel (so to speak) on the implications of the "management" of the pandemic since Jan 20, 2021. I'd like to read your thoughts on this, too.
Thanks.
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The attack has already begun. The first battles are in Ukraine, under proxy.
IMHO the attack began October/November 2019 and is ongoing.
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I read this @massadvj ----- and thought it was quite well done. But this was written on Apr 7, 2020, and I'm wondering if you've written a sequel (so to speak) on the implications of the "management" of the pandemic since Jan 20, 2021. I'd like to read your thoughts on this, too.
Thanks.
Resending ICYMI @massadvj ---if you could let me know, I'd appreciate it (I'd really like to stop checking this thread :laugh: )
Thanks.
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Resending ICYMI @massadvj ---if you could let me know, I'd appreciate it (I'd really like to stop checking this thread :laugh: )
Thanks.
@Right_in_Virginia
I saw it. Sorry I did not respond. I have not written a sequel. Maybe you should write one. :beer:
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Uh, that's not entirely accurate...
"Woodrow Wilson Got the Flu in a Pandemic During the World War I Peace Talks"
https://www.history.com/news/woodrow-wilson-1918-pandemic-world-war-i
Past Pandemics
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/basics/past-pandemics.html
The Worst Outbreaks in U.S. History
https://www.healthline.com/health/worst-disease-outbreaks-history
Apples to oranges in my opinion. People were not advised to go under lockdown. Huge difference.
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Apples to oranges in my opinion. People were not advised to go under lockdown. Huge difference.
Yes. that is the difference - And the lockdown was the slip of tyranny showing...
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To: the Administrators of this forum
If you allow a complete piece of garbage troll like this "timber rattler" to post her/(maybe his)/(most likely 'it') neocon warmongering garbage here, then kindly delete my account. Thanks for the opportunity to participate, but I can no longer be here in good conscience if a filthy piece of trash is given a forum for expression here.
@art.prout I hope that you will reconsider. Obviously all kinds of personalities and posters make up this forum and we engage in back and forth conversations and debates. Yes, sometimes things can get a little heated and the moderators and administrators do step in. Posters are given freedom of expression which I believe is needed in a debate forum such as this one. This keeps the forum interesting and lots of information is posted.
There are those that post offensive jabs and off the cuff information and that is where the "ignore" button comes in very handy. It does seem that with time these type of posters eventually find the door and leave on their own.
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I know we haven't had an Ivermectin discussion in quite a while, but after our English Bulldog died (not the recent one, but 10 years ago), i found that Ivermectin has a very strong correlation to seizures, especially with certain breeds.
This even after very carefully administering the dosage as guided by our Veterinarian. As much as I now don't trust the COVID Vax (I've had the first two rounds plus a booster) I sure don't want to take something that has even less study with human subjects.
https://www.thesprucepets.com/is-ivermectin-safe-dogs-and-cats-3384698 (https://www.thesprucepets.com/is-ivermectin-safe-dogs-and-cats-3384698)
Oddly enough, several medical journal articles I could have linked concerning Ivermectin use in humans over the last 25 years are now unavailable. Imagine that.
Abstracts remain available, but finding full text is a challenge.
Here is one which concentrates on the anti-parasitic properties, which Ivermectin, chloroquine, and hydroxychloroquine were developed to provide.
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/pjab/87/2/87_2_13/_pdf/-char/en (https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/pjab/87/2/87_2_13/_pdf/-char/en)
It also turns out that all three are powerful ionophores, which is where Ivermectin use comes in with COVID, to get Zinc ions into cells affected by the virus, where Zinc was known to interrupt the reproduction of SARS since 2005. Turns out that works with SARS-Cov-2, also.
I researched the normal clinical dose of Ivermectin in humans at the Mayo Clinic website.
It is weight based, as in 0.2 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. It turns out, doing the math, that the dosage of the 1.87% Ivermectin "horse paste" works out to the same per unit of body weight as the dosage for humans.
Some breeds of dogs are sensitive to and subject to harmful effects from Ivermectin, and as such the use of Ivermectin for those breeds may be contraindicated. English Bulldogs are one of those breeds, and I have seen several accounts from owners that would have me very cautious about giving Ivermectin to dogs of that breed.
However, I have taken Ivermectin (the 'horse paste'--because I could get it), and it is not the first time I have used veterinary antibiotics, myself. Not only did I have no ill effects, but I firmly believe, that in conjunction with Zinc supplementation and the doxycycline the doctor would prescribe, that contributed to me being well just shortly after I got the test results back. At ten days (from symptom onset) I tested clear of the virus.
Keep in mind, that having a relative who had taken hydroxychloroquine for seven years to great benefit for Rheumatoid Arthritis already had me skeptical of the Mainstream Media attack on possible treatments for COVID, that I had seem Zelenko's You Tube which explained (very well) the strategy behind the use of Hydroxychloroquine/Azithromycin/Zinc in the treatment, and that I had researched the efficacy of Zinc in combating SARS-in vitro and in vivo (https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176)-which verified Zelenko's claim that the use of HCQ as an ionophore (also documented elsewhere) to get Zinc into type one pneumocytes and epithelial airway cells would stymie the progress of the disease and effectively give the body the time it needed to form antibodies and fight it off.
The ionophore effects of Ivermectin are similar to the use of Hydroxychloroquine, the doxycycline replaces another macrolide antibiotic (Azithromycin, which, idiopathically, suppress immune function just enough to prevent a cytokine storm and prevents opportunistic bacterial infection), and the zinc, the essential ion which disrupts the replication of the virus. There are other ionophores as well, among them Quercetin and Epigallocatechin-gallate. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf5014633 (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf5014633)
I read the 'studies' which purported to prove that HCQ was ineffective, but those studies all failed to administer Zinc supplementation, most failed to include the Macrolide Antibiotic, and all were administered in the late stages of the disease. Hardly a way to 'prove' that the use of a treatment protocol designed to stop the disease in its early stages is ineffective. Preventing viral replication is somewhat moot after the virus has had ample time to replicate and spread throughout the body, and the damage is done.
Every study thus presented was deeply flawed, and not indicative of a lack of efficacy as an early onset treatment as so often claimed in the Media.
We know now that there existed political, economic, and possibly other motives for decrying these treatment regimens as ineffective, and one study (conducted in Brazil) actually dispensed lethal doses of Chloroquine to participants, and the Media claimed the study had been stopped because patients were dying from the Chloroquine, but failed to explain that 4 times the LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of recipients) of chloroquine had been administered. Chloroquine was conflated in the media with Hydroxychloroquine (two related, but different drugs), and the concept that both were deadly pushed, while Remdesivir, a drug with reported adverse effects of kidney and liver failure was advocated by the CDC and Medical Establishment.
I think it is worth noting that the entire regimen of HCQ/Azithromycin/Zinc or IVM/doxycycline/Zinc should have cost less than $20/course (not dose, course), whereas Remdesivir, administered iv in a clinical setting was some $3000, and we're still finding out the cost of the "safe and effective" mRNA injections.
If, as noted, you have had the shots and have had no ill effects, I'm glad. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for many--enough to especially question the wisdom of administering those injections as a childhood 'vaccine'.
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Your doctor recommended it because he knew that if he wrote you a script for it, no pharmacist would have filled it. And the reason no pharmacist would fill it is because they would have lost out on bigtime federal money if they did.
The fact that you had to purchase animal grade ivermectin instead of having the people version available to you proves my point.
:thumbsup:
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I know we haven't had an Ivermectin discussion in quite a while, but after our English Bulldog died (not the recent one, but 10 years ago), i found that Ivermectin has a very strong correlation to seizures, especially with certain breeds.
This even after very carefully administering the dosage as guided by our Veterinarian. As much as I now don't trust the COVID Vax (I've had the first two rounds plus a booster) I sure don't want to take something that has even less study with human subjects.
Ivermectin has had plenty of use in human beings. It is a standard anti-parasitic that is administered annually to millions of people in Africa.
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Apples to oranges in my opinion. People were not advised to go under lockdown. Huge difference.
Uh, yes they were...ordered in fact, under threat of prosecution.
'A breaking point': Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/breaking-point-anti-lockdown-efforts-during-spanish-flu-offer-cautionary-n1202111
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@art.proutIt does seem that with time these type of posters eventually find the door and leave on their own.
Wel, I'm not going any where, especially since I was invited back. Make of that what you will.
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Wel, I'm not going any where, especially since I was invited back. Make of that what you will.
Good, I am glad that you aren't going anywhere, and if it came across that I was insinuating that you leave, then I apologize.
You'll eventually get to know me, and I will eventually get to know you.
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Uh, yes they were...ordered in fact, under threat of prosecution.
'A breaking point': Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/breaking-point-anti-lockdown-efforts-during-spanish-flu-offer-cautionary-n1202111
Spanish flu - 1918-1920
So let me rephrase -- no President in modern recent history has been faced with a world pandemic as large as the magnitude of COVID.
We can ping pong this back and forth all day long, but you are never going to convince me that Trump did not display extreme leadership in his handling of the pandemic. He did well and saved lives. Meanwhile, China, Fauci and Joe get a free pass by many; not in my books.
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@Right_in_Virginia
I saw it. Sorry I did not respond. I have not written a sequel. Maybe you should write one. :beer:
Thanks @massadvj
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Wel, I'm not going any where, especially since I was invited back. Make of that what you will.
Who signed the invitation @Timber Rattler ?
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Who signed the invitation @Timber Rattler ?
Does it really matter? It was me. *****rollingeyes*****
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Who signed the invitation @Timber Rattler ?
I'll never tell.
(https://media.tenor.com/0oXpWxWBjo4AAAAM/kiss-blow-kiss.gif)
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I'll never tell.
(https://media.tenor.com/0oXpWxWBjo4AAAAM/kiss-blow-kiss.gif)
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/762/095/77c.jpg)
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I don't get it.