The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Right_in_Virginia on June 23, 2017, 12:56:42 pm
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Cruz floats amendment to Senate healthcare bill
The Hill, Jun 22, 2017
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) wants to offer an amendment to the Senate healthcare bill that would allow insurers to sell plans that are not compliant with ObamaCare requirements.
The "Consumer Freedom Amendment" would leave existing ObamaCare plans on the individual market, while also allowing insurers to sell plans that don't comply with requirements of the Affordable Care Act.
"What that does — it leaves existing plans on the market but it gives new options so that people can purchase far more affordable health insurance. It will enable a lot more people to be able to afford buying health insurance," Cruz told The Hill on Thursday afternoon.
Cruz's amendment would allow insurers to continue offering plans that follow ObamaCare's "Title One" requirements, including essential health benefits, which mandates 10 services insurers must cover with no cost-sharing.
But insurers could also sell skimpier, cheaper plans that don't cover those 10 services or meet other ObamaCare requirements.
"If a health insurer offers a plan consistent with the Title One mandates, insurers can also sell in that same state any other plans that consumers desire," Cruz said.
More: http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/339033-cruz-floats-amendment-to-senate-healthcare-bill
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More choice .... this is a good thing.
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That would be a very good thing.
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I'm still puzzled at the reason that the Federal government must regulate health care. I can't find that in the Constitution no where. :shrug:
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While his amendment offers more choices, he also specifically states " insurers can also sell in that same state". The amendment doesn't go far enough; it doesn't open up the opportunity to sell across state lines which would open up the free marketplace.
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I'm still puzzled at the reason that the Federal government must regulate health care. I can't find that in the Constitution no where. :shrug:
Ted? What about repeal???
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While his amendment offers more choices, he also specifically states " insurers can also sell in that same state". The amendment doesn't go far enough; it doesn't open up the opportunity to sell across state lines which would open up the free marketplace.
:thumbsup:
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Cruz floats amendment to Senate healthcare bill
The Hill, Jun 22, 2017
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) wants to offer an amendment to the Senate healthcare bill that would allow insurers to sell plans that are not compliant with ObamaCare requirements.
OMG ! ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?
You mean to tell me that the Senate bill doesn't even get rid of the Obamacare insurance mandates? What in the hell is going on here?
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More choice .... this is a good thing.
Damn Right! And this would, IMHO, amount to repealing Ocare!
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Ted? What about repeal???
This amendment, if adopted, would amount to repeal! Think it through!
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Insurance that is insurance would be for large medical expenses. If people have to pay for routine care then competition will drive down the cost of that care.
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While his amendment offers more choices, he also specifically states " insurers can also sell in that same state". The amendment doesn't go far enough; it doesn't open up the opportunity to sell across state lines which would open up the free marketplace.
That is what Trump had said he would do. I would like to know all the things that are required for the Obama care. I imagine abortion and gender reassignment are on the list. Cheaper plans that don't include things like that is a great idea. They should offer catastrophic only at a very low rate. I know that when I didn't have insurance the walk in clinics at the pharmacy are very affordable for colds that won't go away. Sinus infections or any other minor things you go to the doctor for. Even with insurance I tend to go there. Don't have to wait a month to see a doctor. Not much more than the co pay.
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Ted? What about repeal???
Needs to be repealed. In another article it said the 4 Senators holding out wanted repeal. That is what was promised. That is what we should get.
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OMG ! ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?
You mean to tell me that the Senate bill doesn't even get rid of the Obamacare insurance mandates? What in the hell is going on here?
Typical Republican shell game.
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Needs to be repealed. In another article it said the 4 Senators holding out wanted repeal. That is what was promised. That is what we should get.
Cruz is one of those 4.
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While his amendment offers more choices, he also specifically states " insurers can also sell in that same state". The amendment doesn't go far enough; it doesn't open up the opportunity to sell across state lines which would open up the free marketplace.
@libertybele
This "free marketplace" mantra may be overstated.
Insurance CAN be sold across state lines, but each state still regulates the insurance policies available within its borders. Out-of-state insurance companies are limited to the same policy regulations as in-state companies.
As of last month, five states had passed legislation allowing insurance plans that cross state lines: Rhode Island, Wyoming, Georgia, Kentucky and Maine. Georgia's law has been in effect since 2011, yet no insurer has yet offered an out-of-state policy there -- or in any of the other four states. If this is the key to bringing costs down, why doesn't anyone want to do it?
State regulations govern items as varied as the generosity of coverage to appeal processes for denied services. .../
If an insurer from state B would instead have to meet state A’s regulations, then it’s not clear what the federal law would accomplish.
The bigger challenge for this idea, though, is that almost all health care is delivered locally. To succeed, insurance companies need a significant toe-hold with hospitals and other providers in their local market; an out-of-state insurer would lack that and thus struggle in its negotiations to form a delivery network. This is why many new entrants to the health insurance market haven’t succeeded.
More: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-06/selling-health-insurance-across-state-lines-won-t-save-money
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Insurance that is insurance would be for large medical expenses. If people have to pay for routine care then competition will drive down the cost of that care.
Clear, concise and overall well stated.
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Clear, concise and overall well stated.
And Ocare is dead! dead! Dead!
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Ted? What about repeal???
Full repeal is the only way. I emailed him about this yesterday and his response : "Please be assured that I will continue to work closely with my Senate colleagues, from across the ideological spectrum, on consensus reforms to make health insurance more affordable."
He did mention : For the past seven years, Republicans have run for Congress on a commitment to repeal Obamacare. On May 4th, the House of Representatives was able to come together to improve their first draft and pass a bill to start the process of fulfilling the congressional majority's longstanding promises to reduce premiums and make health care more affordable."
His response seems to be double-speak. Reducing premiums and making health care more affordable is not the same as fully repealing Obamacare.
I am disappointed.
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Full repeal is the only way. I emailed him about this yesterday and his response : "Please be assured that I will continue to work closely with my Senate colleagues, from across the ideological spectrum, on consensus reforms to make health insurance more affordable."
He did mention : For the past seven years, Republicans have run for Congress on a commitment to repeal Obamacare. On May 4th, the House of Representatives was able to come together to improve their first draft and pass a bill to start the process of fulfilling the congressional majority's longstanding promises to reduce premiums and make health care more affordable."
His response seems to be double-speak. Reducing premiums and making health care more affordable is not the same as fully repealing Obamacare.
I am disappointed.
Don't be! If he get's his amendment adopted Obamacare is DEAD!
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@libertybele
This "free marketplace" mantra may be overstated.
Insurance CAN be sold across state lines, but each state still regulates the insurance policies available within its borders. Out-of-state insurance companies are limited to the same policy regulations as in-state companies.
Yup, @Right_in_Virginia. A lot of the "easy fixes" aren't.
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This amendment, if adopted, would amount to repeal! Think it through!
Yep. Offer the Cadillac plan and sell the Chevvies all day long.
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Full repeal is the only way. I emailed him about this yesterday and his response : "Please be assured that I will continue to work closely with my Senate colleagues, from across the ideological spectrum, on consensus reforms to make health insurance more affordable."
He did mention : For the past seven years, Republicans have run for Congress on a commitment to repeal Obamacare. On May 4th, the House of Representatives was able to come together to improve their first draft and pass a bill to start the process of fulfilling the congressional majority's longstanding promises to reduce premiums and make health care more affordable."
His response seems to be double-speak. Reducing premiums and making health care more affordable is not the same as fully repealing Obamacare.
I am disappointed.
This has the effect of nullifying Obamacare, provided the penalty goes away, too. If an insurer has only to offer the approved plan in order to be able to sell the lesser plan, they can offer a plan like government employees get, and the rest of us could go back to buying something that fit our needs and budget. At that point, Obamacare is effectively dead, except for the subsidies.
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Typical Republican shell game.
@txradioguy
Exactly. That bag-faced turtle, McConnell, stood on the stage at CPAC and said they would get rid of Obamacare "root and branch."
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@txradioguy
Exactly. That bag-faced turtle, McConnell, stood on the stage at CPAC and said they would get rid of Obamacare "root and branch."
Ted Cruz is no longer fighting to get rid of Obamacare "root and branch" any more. He's looking to lower costs, reduce the rate of Medicaid increases and allow states to opt out of the essential benefits.
This ain't 2009 any more.
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Ted Cruz is no longer fighting to get rid of Obamacare "root and branch" any more. He's looking to lower costs, reduce the rate of Medicaid increases and allow states to opt out of the essential benefits.
This ain't 2009 any more.
Not so. He's trying to get an amendment added that will "root out" 0bamacare.
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Ted Cruz is no longer fighting to get rid of Obamacare "root and branch" any more. He's looking to lower costs, reduce the rate of Medicaid increases and allow states to opt out of the essential benefits.
This ain't 2009 any more.
Yeah sure he's not. That's why he's one of the four opposing what the Senate is proposing right now.
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Yeah sure he's not. That's why he's one of the four opposing what the Senate is proposing right now.
Yes, Cruz wants additional changes to the Senate draft ..... most notably the right for states to opt out of essential benefits, which is a way to expand choice and offer lower premium plans.
He's changing Obamacare ... not uprooting it. And that's because Cruz is learning the art of the possible. Good for him; and us.
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Yes, Cruz wants additional changes to the Senate draft ..... most notably the right for states to opt out of essential benefits, which is a way to expand choice and offer lower premium plans.
He's changing Obamacare ... not uprooting it. And that's because Cruz is learning the art of the possible. Good for him; and us.
If insurance companies are allowed to sell plans that do not conform to the Obamacare mandates what do you think will VERY RAPIDLY happen to those plans that DO conform?
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If insurance companies are allowed to sell plans that do not conform to the Obamacare mandates what do you think will VERY RAPIDLY happen to those plans that DO conform?
The less expensive plans will win. :shrug: But pre-existing condition coverage (most likely w/o penalties) and subsidies continue. More less expensive plans do not remove government from health insurance/health care.
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If insurance companies are allowed to sell plans that do not conform to the Obamacare mandates what do you think will VERY RAPIDLY happen to those plans that DO conform?
Three-dimensional chess, Bigun.
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The less expensive plans will win. :shrug: But pre-existing condition coverage (most likely w/o penalties) and subsidies continue.
At least until the next actual budget is written!
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Three-dimensional chess, Bigun.
I guess so! :laugh:
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At least until the next actual budget is written!
Still a problem getting to 51 in the Senate.
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Still a problem getting to 51 in the Senate.
So much for that "all we need is a majority in the house and senate to repeal Obamacare"
*****rollingeyes*****
Someone will always find a way to justify NOT doing the right thing and getting rid of the ACA "root and branch".
And there will always be people that make excuses for those lying politicians as well.
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Still a problem getting to 51 in the Senate.
NO doubt about that! Which is why MY preference is STILL to just resurrect the bill they put on Obama's desk last year and OUT the phonys for all to see!
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NO doubt about that! Which is why MY preference is STILL to just resurrect the bill they put on Obama's desk last year and OUT the phonys for all to see!
Now you know they can't do that @Bigun This President would actually sign it. 88devil
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Now you know they can't do that @Bigun This President would actually sign it. 88devil
I'm not so sure that he would but would LOVE to find out! :whistle:
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I'm not so sure that he would but would LOVE to find out! :whistle:
The congresscritters won't risk it.
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NO doubt about that! Which is why MY preference is STILL to just resurrect the bill they put on Obama's desk last year and OUT the phonys for all to see!
It's a nice thought, but once they know a couple safe turncoats, say Collins and Murkowski, will vote Nay the rest can pretend.
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If the Republicans pass Obamacare light ( the billions in insurance subsidies) they have fallen right into the trap set by the dimocraps and will own this money-sucking entitlement.
5% of the populace have a pre-existing condition and they consume 50% of the healthcare. Health coverage for them is the priority. Insurance companies will have to soak the rest of us to pay for their codified "right" to healthcare.
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It's a nice thought, but once they know a couple safe turncoats, say Collins and Murkowski, will vote Nay the rest can pretend.
In that case Mike Pence would break the tie! :laugh:
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The House spent weeks on tweaking the bill and the Senate spent nearly 2 months on revamping the bill. We have 4 strong conservatives obviously against the bill; and for good reason. So ... instead of tweaking, amending, redrafting, etc., etc., for heaven's sake. Repeal the dang thing already. Use some of Paul's plan and some of Cruz's plan and get on with it! It is my understanding that there is also a bill in the archives that was passed by both Houses which Bammy failed to sign. That bill could be used as well. Playing in the backroom and blowing smoke isn't going to cut it anymore!
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The House spent weeks on tweaking the bill and the Senate spent nearly 2 months on revamping the bill. We have 4 strong conservatives obviously against the bill; and for good reason. So ... instead of tweaking, amending, redrafting, etc., etc., for heaven's sake. Repeal the dang thing already. Use some of Paul's plan and some of Cruz's plan and get on with it! It is my understanding that there is also a bill in the archives that was passed by both Houses which Bammy failed to sign. That bill could be used as well. Playing in the backroom and blowing smoke isn't going to cut it anymore!
Great post!
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Two of my favorite posters, right here!
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I'm still puzzled at the reason that the Federal government must regulate health care. I can't find that in the Constitution no where. :shrug:
It's in the same section of the Constitution that gives a protected right to kill an unborn child.
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The less expensive plans will win. :shrug: But pre-existing condition coverage (most likely w/o penalties) and subsidies continue. More less expensive plans do not remove government from health insurance/health care.
Nor does it do anything about the millions added to the medicaid rolls
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I'm still puzzled at the reason that the Federal government must regulate health care. I can't find that in the Constitution no where. :shrug:
Arguably there is an interstate market in health care -- people travel interstate to go to the Mayo Clinic or some of the major specialized hospitals in the New York metro area -- so the Commerce Clause applies, but there is no interstate market in health insurance (one of the problems we have), and Obamacare is almost entirely a scheme regulating health insurance.
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The House spent weeks on tweaking the bill and the Senate spent nearly 2 months on revamping the bill. We have 4 strong conservatives obviously against the bill; and for good reason. So ... instead of tweaking, amending, redrafting, etc., etc., for heaven's sake. Repeal the dang thing already. Use some of Paul's plan and some of Cruz's plan and get on with it! It is my understanding that there is also a bill in the archives that was passed by both Houses which Bammy failed to sign. That bill could be used as well. Playing in the backroom and blowing smoke isn't going to cut it anymore!
The sad part is that just 4 Conservatives are working for us. I want full repeal also. When they are the lone 4 all I can say is thank you to those 4 , hope and pray that they can make changes that benefit us.
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The sad part is that just 4 Conservatives are working for us.
Five, now with Sen. Heller of Nevada.
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Five, now with Sen. Heller of Nevada.
And a thank you to Sen. Heller also.
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I'm still puzzled at the reason that the Federal government must regulate health care. I can't find that in the Constitution no where. :shrug:
Commerce Clause.
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Commerce Clause.
The Federal government prohibits interstate commerce of health insurance. Thus, the commerce clause is inapplicable.
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The Federal government prohibits interstate commerce of health insurance. Thus, the commerce clause is inapplicable.
No, it isn't.
I'm not going to argue the issue; there is more than enough material out there for those who are curious in good faith that explains why.
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No, it isn't.
I'm not going to argue the issue; there is more than enough material out there for those who are curious in good faith that explains why.
Of course! Air can cross state lines so, according to some, breathing can be regulated under the commerce clause! Never mind what the people who wrote it intended!
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Air is allowed to cross state lines. The insurance contract between policy holder and insurer is not.
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Arguably there is an interstate market in health care -- people travel interstate to go to the Mayo Clinic or some of the major specialized hospitals in the New York metro area -- so the Commerce Clause applies, but there is no interstate market in health insurance (one of the problems we have), and Obamacare is almost entirely a scheme regulating health insurance.
One of the most wishy-washy arguments I've heard other that John Robert's that it's a Tax one.
Regulating insurance does NOTHING to control the out of control COST of getting medical aid. Doctors control the prices negotiated with the insurance groups.
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One of the most wishy-washy arguments I've heard other that John Robert's that it's a Tax one.
Speaking of investigations.... Would love to see what went down between the Obama admin, and SCOTUS prior to Robert's vote.
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Speaking of investigations.... Would love to see what went down between the Obama admin, and SCOTUS prior to Robert's vote.
Almost makes you think they had pictures of him or something LOL!
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Yep. Offer the Cadillac plan and sell the Chevvies all day long.
I haven't read Cruz's amendment, but the immediate question I have is whether the ACA subsidies (e.g, the age-based (House bill) or income-based (Senate bill) tax credits) would be available for skinnier policies that don't cover the required "essential health benefits".
If not, then the Cruz amendment may simply be allowing folks to forego the tax credits for the Cadillac and pay without subsidies for the Chevys.
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If insurance companies are allowed to sell plans that do not conform to the Obamacare mandates what do you think will VERY RAPIDLY happen to those plans that DO conform?
It may depend on whether the mandate plans are propped up by subsidies/tax credits while skinnier plans are not.
Remember also that no plan (it appears) may deviate from community rating. A person with a pre-existing health condition can get a skinnier plan, but the question then becomes whether he can then "move up" to a more comprehensive plan without restriction. I suspect most of this can be addressed in regulations. But I wouldn't be surprised if the bottom line is that I can get a skinny plan without regard to my pre-existing conditions, but if I later want to cover those conditions under a more comprehensive plan, those conditions won't be covered until after, say, a one-year waiting period. Which is exactly how it used to work in the old days!
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I haven't read Cruz's amendment, but the immediate question I have is whether the ACA subsidies (e.g, the age-based (House bill) or income-based (Senate bill) tax credits) would be available for skinnier policies that don't cover the required "essential health benefits".
If not, then the Cruz amendment may simply be allowing folks to forego the tax credits for the Cadillac and pay without subsidies for the Chevys.
When you consider the deductible for the Cadillac plan in this state is multiples of the deductible on my (essentially) catastrophic care plan was, I'd take the Chevy I had all day long, especially comparing the rates.
The 5K deductible plan that didn't cover a lot of stuff I didn't need cost 6K a year.
The 14K deductible "Cadillac" plan costs 28K a year.
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Almost makes you think they had pictures of him or something LOL!
Maybe a lot more than that. A couple credible perjurers might do the trick, provided, of course, there was nothing there, which just may not be the case.
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When you consider the deductible for the Cadillac plan in this state is multiples of the deductible on my (essentially) catastrophic care plan was, I'd take the Chevy I had all day long, especially comparing the rates.
Understood - and I'm all for consumers having a choice. For auto insurance, for example, drivers must typically purchase insurance to cover the harm they may do to others, but otherwise have the freedom to choose how much potential expense and liability they want to insure, or pay from their own pockets.
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More choice .... this is a good thing.
Yes. It's a tenuous thing with zero Democrats willing to help their country but this bill should satisfy four of the Republican holdouts.
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Understood - and I'm all for consumers having a choice. For auto insurance, for example, drivers must typically purchase insurance to cover the harm they may do to others, but otherwise have the freedom to choose how much potential expense and liability they want to insure, or pay from their own pockets.
But auto insurance is a whole 'nother critter. It's part of the responsibility you embrace when you decide to operate an automobile, which has the potential to injure others.
To be required to carry insurance just because you are here and breathing is wrong. The only way to not be penalized (or forced to buy the product) is to die.
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But auto insurance is a whole 'nother critter. It's part of the responsibility you embrace when you decide to operate an automobile, which has the potential to injure others.
To be required to carry insurance just because you are here and breathing is wrong. The only way to not be penalized (or forced to buy the product) is to die.
Again, understood. The proposed GOP reforms would eliminate the tax associated with the "individual mandate". That will, of course, directly lead to higher costs for insurance, but at least no one will be "forced" to buy. Folks can continue to be free riders, and the rest of us will pay for their treatment.
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Again, understood. The proposed GOP reforms would eliminate the tax associated with the "individual mandate". That will, of course, directly lead to higher costs for insurance, but at least no one will be "forced" to buy. Folks can continue to be free riders, and the rest of us will pay for their treatment.
There you go again, with the 'free rider' thing. If you don't need services, you haven't ridden anything 'free'. You didn't ride. The insurance companies aren't the only ones who can figure the actuarials. If you are an ordinarily reasonable driver, sober, not a druggie, and don't have 'extreme' hobbies or sexual proclivities, you often will go through your twenties without requiring major medical services. Coverage for extreme situations with high deductibles would actually come down in price if more signed up, and as a hedge against misfortune, that should be enough. If people are starting a family, they would want more and different coverage.
The biggest problem is the imposition of a single omnibus insurance plan on those who do not need the services, and charging those people for the service whether they want/need it or not. One size does not fit all.
However, it still doesn't change the fact that there is no Constitutional Authority for the Federal Government to be involved in health insurance at all.
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@txradioguy
Exactly. That bag-faced turtle, McConnell, stood on the stage at CPAC and said they would get rid of Obamacare "root and branch."
It's complicated but I trust Ted Cruz and I hope his amendment is included and this bill is passed. It's much closer to perfect than the last bill.
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Yep. Offer the Cadillac plan and sell the Chevvies all day long.
Agree . Glad to Cruz playing a role in moving the winning along.
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It's complicated but I trust Ted Cruz and I hope his amendment is included and this bill is passed. It's much closer to perfect than the last bill.
It's better, but not in all respects. Critically, the ability for states to apply for a waiver has been limited as compared to what it was in the House bill. In the House bill, a state could get a waiver not only to offer skinnier plans, but also with respect to community rating. In the Senate bill, in response to concerns from centrists, waivers with respect to community rating cannot be obtained. So the Senate bill, for once and for all, enshrines the key ObamaCare goal of nationwide community rating.
That's a huge cost driver for medical insurance - the healthy must pay more to allow the sick to obtain insurance without regard to their pre-existing conditions. I will not, for example, be able to pay less for a policy that doesn't cover my pre-existing condition for the first year - a common enough provision pre-ACA in many states that effectively kept premium costs down.
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It's complicated but I trust Ted Cruz and I hope his amendment is included and this bill is passed. It's much closer to perfect than the last bill.
It's not that complicated if the people we sent to DC would just do what they promised in regards to the ACA.
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It's not that complicated if the people we sent to DC would just do what they promised in regards to the ACA.
But, by making it seem too complicated, they can take liberties they wouldn't otherwise be able to take!
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But, by making it seem too complicated, they can take liberties they wouldn't otherwise be able to take!
Sadly that's true...and people fall for it.
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But, by making it seem too complicated, they can take liberties they wouldn't otherwise be able to take!
Well, if they don't overcomplicate it, people might see it as a simple issue and figure out that they can figure it out.
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It's not that complicated if the people we sent to DC would just do what they promised in regards to the ACA.
True, but it's complicated because we sent some people to DC that we shouldn't have and we have to get all Republicans on board to pass this.
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...But pre-existing condition coverage (most likely w/o penalties) and subsidies continue. More less expensive plans do not remove government from health insurance/health care.
The obvious solution to the Healthcare insurance problem is to remove the pre-existing condition (medicaid) part of their plan completely. It is not insurance, it's WELFARE. Since even the GOPe is hell-bent on it, it should be given its own special program and funded by reducing all Federal Pensions and Federal salaries by 10% or 15% or whatever percentage it takes to pay for it. Reduce all food stamp bennies by 10%. All EBT and other welfare programs by 10%. Let the Federal employees, libtards and able-bodied layabouts who are always clamoring for more freebies help out the honest taxpayers for once.
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Yes. It's a tenuous thing with zero Democrats willing to help their country but this bill should satisfy four of the Republican holdouts.
Anything concocted behind closed doors by either party can't be good. :nono:
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It's not that complicated if the people we sent to DC would just do what they promised in regards to the ACA.
@txradioguy
Haley ByrdVerified account
I don't understand the "we have to pass this bill that'll make premiums go up 20% during an election year so we can win the midterms" logic
Topher SpiroVerified account
WOW. CBO: Premiums for a 64-year old with middle income go from $6,800 under ACA to $20,500 under BCRA ⚠️
Steve DeaceVerified account @SteveDeaceShow 16h16 hours ago
So if you're a conservative, you do realize GOP majority willing to risk every issue you care about on a (bad) Obamacare bailout, right?
Daniel Horowitz @RMConservative 18h18 hours ago
1) this bill is worse than doing nothing- political & policy wise.
2) Not an excuse 4 at least putting out a real repeal proposal and trying
Daniel Horowitz @RMConservative 19h19 hours ago
Latest podcast: GOP committing worst form of political adultery on health care, yet Clickservatives dont care
Ana NavarroVerified account @ananavarro 15h15 hours ago
Trump PAC running ads vs GOP Senators voting "no" on healthcare. Political cannibalism. Better be careful dont choke while eating their own.
If Cruz, Paul, Lee, etc. hold firm on this, they'll be heroes, but they won't be recognized as such anymore than the Freedom Caucus by those who think anything with an R on it should be rubber-stamped, no matter how godawful it is.
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@txradioguy
Haley ByrdVerified account
I don't understand the "we have to pass this bill that'll make premiums go up 20% during an election year so we can win the midterms" logic
Topher SpiroVerified account
WOW. CBO: Premiums for a 64-year old with middle income go from $6,800 under ACA to $20,500 under BCRA ⚠️
Steve DeaceVerified account @SteveDeaceShow 16h16 hours ago
So if you're a conservative, you do realize GOP majority willing to risk every issue you care about on a (bad) Obamacare bailout, right?
Daniel Horowitz @RMConservative 18h18 hours ago
1) this bill is worse than doing nothing- political & policy wise.
2) Not an excuse 4 at least putting out a real repeal proposal and trying
Daniel Horowitz @RMConservative 19h19 hours ago
Latest podcast: GOP committing worst form of political adultery on health care, yet Clickservatives dont care
Ana NavarroVerified account @ananavarro 15h15 hours ago
Trump PAC running ads vs GOP Senators voting "no" on healthcare. Political cannibalism. Better be careful dont choke while eating their own.
If Cruz, Paul, Lee, etc. hold firm on this, they'll be heroes, but they won't be recognized as such anymore than the Freedom Caucus by those who think anything with an R on it should be rubber-stamped, no matter how godawful it is.
@CatherineofAragon
How can anyone in their right mind and with a straight face tell us with any modicum of honesty that this is a great deal or that it's the best we can do right now?
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@CatherineofAragon
How can anyone in their right mind and with a straight face tell us with any modicum of honesty that this is a great deal or that it's the best we can do right now?
@txradioguy
I've tried to figure that one out myself. In my opinion, there are still a lot of people who are in the habit of believing Republicans are the good guys, and that anything they shove down our throats has to be an improvement over Democrat policy. Even if it isn't, those habits die hard, or not at all.
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@txradioguy
I've tried to figure that one out myself. In my opinion, there are still a lot of people who are in the habit of believing Republicans are the good guys, and that anything they shove down our throats has to be an improvement over Democrat policy. Even if it isn't, those habits die hard, or not at all.
I used to be that way. But as time has passed I tend to pick and choose and have become more selective on whom in the GOP I think is a good guy.
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@txradioguy
I've tried to figure that one out myself. In my opinion, there are still a lot of people who are in the habit of believing Republicans are the good guys, and that anything they shove down our throats has to be an improvement over Democrat policy. Even if it isn't, those habits die hard, or not at all.
It's not a matter of Republicans being the 'good guys.' Many of them are not.
To me, it's a matter of cutting away at least some of the rot of the Obamacare bill and getting something better for the people.
Ted Cruz is well aware of the situation and if he thinks this bill with his amendment is a good one right now, then I'm on board with it.
A perfect bill would be nice but it wouldn't pass.
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It's not a matter of Republicans being the 'good guys.' Many of them are not.
To me, it's a matter of cutting away at least some of the rot of the Obamacare bill and getting something better for the people.
Ted Cruz is well aware of the situation and if he thinks this bill with his amendment is a good one right now, then I'm on board with it.
A perfect bill would be nice but it wouldn't pass.
The whole thing is rotten...it should ALL be cut out.
The perfect bill WAS passed two years ago. It just needs to be dusted off and sent to the President for his signature.
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@txradioguy
I've tried to figure that one out myself. In my opinion, there are still a lot of people who are in the habit of believing Republicans are the good guys, and that anything they shove down our throats has to be an improvement over Democrat policy. Even if it isn't, those habits die hard, or not at all.
The Pubs are worse than the Rats.
The Pubs ran on a platform promising to repeal obamacare. They won a majority in the House promising to repeal obamacare. They won a majority in the Senate promising to repeal obamacare. Trump won thye Presidency promising to repeal obamacare. Now they say they don't have the votes to repeal obamacare and what's worse is by "fixing" obamacare they are creating a permanent role for the fed. govt in determining what an individual can and must do about their health care.
The Rats are straight forward about being socialists. The Pubs are worse because they claim they aren't socialists, but they enact policies that cement a socialist approach to govt.
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The whole thing is rotten...it should ALL be cut out.
The perfect bill WAS passed two years ago. It just needs to be dusted off and sent to the President for his signature.
We all know that. We also know that's not going to happen. This Cruz bill is our best chance to get something done right now and even that's not going to be easy ... Susan Collins is wavering on it.
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The Pubs are worse than the Rats.
The Pubs ran on a platform promising to repeal obamacare. They won a majority in the House promising to repeal obamacare. They won a majority in the Senate promising to repeal obamacare. Trump won thye Presidency promising to repeal obamacare. Now they say they don't have the votes to repeal obamacare and what's worse is by "fixing" obamacare they are creating a permanent role for the fed. govt in determining what an individual can and must do about their health care.
The Rats are straight forward about being socialists. The Pubs are worse because they claim they aren't socialists, but they enact policies that cement a socialist approach to govt.
The Republicans are not worse than the Democrats.
Just wanted to get that straight. It's one thing to be very disappointed in some of the Republicans ... it's another thing to be ridiculous.
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Ted Cruz is no longer fighting to get rid of Obamacare "root and branch" any more. He's looking to lower costs, reduce the rate of Medicaid increases and allow states to opt out of the essential benefits.
This ain't 2009 any more.
Now I'm wondering about the status of the Cruz proposed amendment. Is that the bill that McConnell is talking about when he and Cornyn are now punting the vote down the road.
Because the opposing Senators mentioned in the story did not include Ted Cruz but did include Mike Lee and I would have thought Lee would have been on board with the Cruz amendment.
It's not only confusing but dispiriting.
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Now I'm wondering about the status of the Cruz proposed amendment. Is that the bill that McConnell is talking about when he and Cornyn are now punting the vote down the road.
Because the opposing Senators mentioned in the story did not include Ted Cruz but did include Mike Lee and I would have thought Lee would have been on board with the Cruz amendment.
It's not only confusing but dispiriting.
@Emjay
I agree. I wish I understood what the six opposed to the current draft want.....other than camera time.
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@Emjay
I agree. I wish I understood what the six opposed to the current draft want.....other than camera time.
It really doesn't require a great leap in Imagination to know a few crucial votes (Lee, Cruz and Paul) only wanted what the GOP promised US the last 7 years and also what President Trump stated repeatedly throughout his campaign-On Day One-REPEAL.
Maybe I'm not being realistic here @Right_in_Virginia but you would never be able to convince me of that, I'm just to hard headed in my belief it was all just one big con.
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It really doesn't require a great leap in Imagination to know a few crucial votes (Lee, Cruz and Paul) only wanted what the GOP promised US the last 7 years and also what President Trump stated repeatedly throughout his campaign-On Day One-REPEAL.
Maybe I'm not being realistic here @Right_in_Virginia but you would never be able to convince me of that, I'm just to hard headed in my belief it was all just one big con.
BINGO!!!!
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The Republicans are not worse than the Democrats.
Just wanted to get that straight. It's one thing to be very disappointed in some of the Republicans ... it's another thing to be ridiculous.
What's worse the guy who tells you he's against everything you believe in, or the guy who tells you he believes everything you believe in and then supports the guy who is opposed to you? In my book liars are worse.
Medicaid is becoming the single payer program the Rats want. It continues to grow under the Pub plan and the poverty base line keeps getting increased. The community rating and essential benefits part of obamacare is retained under the Pub plan. IOW, under the Pub plan the fed govt will tell you what you must buy and the fed govt will determine what the plan must cover. If you can't afford the one size fits all plan you will get the govt program medicaid. Of course in either case a govt panel will determine whether or not you get the care you need.
Sen. Cruz offered a really good amendment letting individuals opt out and buy plans they want, but I haven't seen any coverage or support for it.
If what's being offered right now ends up being the bill I would expect conservatives to not vote for it. If they do the only alternative I have is to not support them at the ballot box, or financially.
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What's worse the guy who tells you he's against everything you believe in, or the guy who tells you he believes everything you believe in and then supports the guy who is opposed to you? In my book liars are worse.
Medicaid is becoming the single payer program the Rats want. It continues to grow under the Pub plan and the poverty base line keeps getting increased. The community rating and essential benefits part of obamacare is retained under the Pub plan. IOW, under the Pub plan the fed govt will tell you what you must buy and the fed govt will determine what the plan must cover. If you can't afford the one size fits all plan you will get the govt program medicaid. Of course in either case a govt panel will determine whether or not you get the care you need.
Sen. Cruz offered a really good amendment letting individuals opt out and buy plans they want, but I haven't seen any coverage or support for it.
If what's being offered right now ends up being the bill I would expect conservatives to not vote for it. If they do the only alternative I have is to not support them at the ballot box, or financially.
So ... does anyone know the status of the Cruz amendment? Was it passed and included in the bill or was it not?
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So ... does anyone know the status of the Cruz amendment? Was it passed and included in the bill or was it not?
From what I understand he offered it as a compromise, but no one seems to be promoting it.
If they attached his amendment to the bill I would be a huge supporter. It would allow anyone to buy a policy that they want and can afford. I am in that small group of self employed people who only wanted catastrophic coverage in order to keep the premiums down. I used to provide the same to people I employed. obamacare ended that, I not only lost my coverage but everyone who worked for me as well. In my experience a lot of people who want pre-existing conditions covered and one size fits all policies are either all ready covered by medicare or get their insurance through their employer. I get pretty tired of "do gooders" demanding things that I have to pay for and that don't affect them.
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From what I understand he offered it as a compromise, but no one seems to be promoting it.
If they attached his amendment to the bill I would be a huge supporter. It would allow anyone to buy a policy that they want and can afford. I am in that small group of self employed people who only wanted catastrophic coverage in order to keep the premiums down. I used to provide the same to people I employed. obamacare ended that, I not only lost my coverage but everyone who worked for me as well. In my experience a lot of people who want pre-existing conditions covered and one size fits all policies are either all ready covered by medicare or get their insurance through their employer. I get pretty tired of "do gooders" demanding things that I have to pay for and that don't affect them.
Pretty much in the same boat. My insurance company quit underwriting health plans. Mine no longer qualified. I could cover the deductibles and co-pay with one year's payments into an HSA and not pay taxes on that money and get interest, too. Small stuff got paid out of pocket, and we don't ordinarily take any medication. It worked. The Government broke it.
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.../
Maybe I'm not being realistic here @Right_in_Virginia but you would never be able to convince me of that, I'm just to hard headed in my belief it was all just one big con.
I really have no idea what this means @corbe or how it relates to my previous post. :shrug:
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I really have no idea what this means @corbe or how it relates to my previous post. :shrug:
Upon rereading it @Right_in_Virginia it does seem to be a bit discombobulated and though I would love to expound on it I couldn't possibly do that in the 144 character limitations of Trumpspeak.
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The Pubs are worse than the Rats.
The Pubs ran on a platform promising to repeal obamacare. They won a majority in the House promising to repeal obamacare. They won a majority in the Senate promising to repeal obamacare. Trump won thye Presidency promising to repeal obamacare. Now they say they don't have the votes to repeal obamacare and what's worse is by "fixing" obamacare they are creating a permanent role for the fed. govt in determining what an individual can and must do about their health care.
The Rats are straight forward about being socialists. The Pubs are worse because they claim they aren't socialists, but they enact policies that cement a socialist approach to govt.
@bilo
I can't disagree with you. They're scum. They lied for eight years about repealing Obamacare, all the while knowing they had no intention of doing so. But still, like beaten wives who stand by the police cruiser and tell the cop they don't want to press charges, some voters are willing to come crawling for more abuse. I really do not understand it.
And that's why the GOP can get away with this kind of thing. It's why they'll never have to change.
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Pretty much in the same boat. My insurance company quit underwriting health plans. Mine no longer qualified. I could cover the deductibles and co-pay with one year's payments into an HSA and not pay taxes on that money and get interest, too. Small stuff got paid out of pocket, and we don't ordinarily take any medication. It worked. The Government broke it.
In the end I found a Christian health care co-op, Medi-Share. Unfortunately several employees weren't able to join because they aren't Christians. You are so right the Govt broke it.
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@bilo
I can't disagree with you. They're scum. They lied for eight years about repealing Obamacare, all the while knowing they had no intention of doing so. But still, like beaten wives who stand by the police cruiser and tell the cop they don't want to press charges, some voters are willing to come crawling for more abuse. I really do not understand it.
And that's why the GOP can get away with this kind of thing. It's why they'll never have to change.
I know the process is messy, but I sure don't see repeal happening. The best I can hope for is the ability to opt out. I'm so mad I can't put it into words to describe it. All my life I stuck with these guys. I campaigned for conservatives. I knocked on doors. I worked as an election judge. I attended party meetings. I donated to campaigns. Now after a lifetime of working towards the day when we would see conservative principals put into law we see they really don't want to. They just want socialism "lite" instead of the real heavy duty Venezuela type that always follows.
No more!
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Upon rereading it @Right_in_Virginia it does seem to be a bit discombobulated and though I would love to expound on it I couldn't possibly do that in the 144 character limitations of Trumpspeak.
So .. IOW @corbe you don't know what you meant either.
Thanks for the candor
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So .. IOW @corbe you don't know what you meant either.
Thanks for the candor
Let it go, RIV. It was 11513 yesterday.
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Let it go, RIV. It was yesterday.
Well, @Sanguine as much as I appreciate you chiming in ... I was simply answering a ping. Unlike some, I am unable to be here 24/7 .... :whistle:
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Well, @Sanguine as much as I appreciate you chiming in ... I was simply answering a ping. Unlike some, I am unable to be here 24/7 .... :whistle:
Yes. Well, I like being pinged in a way because otherwise I might miss an insult. On the other hand, I can't seem to resist clicking on it only to find I AM being insulted and must respond with evil snark and sarcasm.
My theory is that most people who seem to be on here all the time are either retired with nothing much to do or at a job with free time where they can play on the Internet.
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Yes. Well, I like being pinged in a way because otherwise I might miss an insult. On the other hand, I can't seem to resist clicking on it only to find I AM being insulted and must respond with evil snark and sarcasm.
My theory is that most people who seem to be on here all the time are either retired with nothing much to do or at a job with free time where they can play on the Internet.
@Emjay, I wasn't insulting you. ????
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@Emjay, I wasn't insulting you. ????
I know that ... sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I'd just gotten up when I made that post. Is that an excuse? I hope so.
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I know that ... sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I'd just gotten up when I made that post. Is that an excuse? I hope so.
LOL.
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Christian health care co-op, Medi-Share
My employer's son joined one of those quite a while ago. They have been very happy with the cost and coverage.
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I know the process is messy, but I sure don't see repeal happening. The best I can hope for is the ability to opt out. I'm so mad I can't put it into words to describe it. All my life I stuck with these guys. I campaigned for conservatives. I knocked on doors. I worked as an election judge. I attended party meetings. I donated to campaigns. Now after a lifetime of working towards the day when we would see conservative principals put into law we see they really don't want to. They just want socialism "lite" instead of the real heavy duty Venezuela type that always follows.
No more!
I too am disgusted by the Republicans who now refuse to vote for killing Obamacare as they promised. They apparently fear the wrath of the Media and the people who get Obamacare for free (or very little) i.e., those who are the Medicaid crowd. They don't stop to realize that 99.9% of those people never voted for Trump nor Republicans anyway, AND WILL NOT AGAIN, even if Trump and the Rebubs gave them everything they want. On the other hand, if Obamacare is not expunged as promised by the Repubs, voters who supported Trump and the GOP WILL NOT vote for the GOP in the midterms, nor Trump and the GOP again in 2020.
Not cancelling O-care will prove to be political suicide for the GOP. The commie takeover will then be complete.
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My employer's son joined one of those quite a while ago. They have been very happy with the cost and coverage.
I have been happy with Medi-Share as well. My premiums are very low and I don't have to subsidize things I don't want, don't need and don't approve of.
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I know that ... sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I'd just gotten up when I made that post. Is that an excuse? I hope so.
I do that all the time...lol. Must... not.... post.... before caffeine! :silly: