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General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: Kamaji on June 01, 2023, 03:20:20 pm

Title: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 01, 2023, 03:20:20 pm
Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs

Even taking all the money from every billionaire wouldn't cover our coming bankruptcy.

JOHN STOSSEL
5.31.2023

Social Security is toast.

So is Medicare.

Too many of us old people live longer, so there are not enough working people to support us.

Soon both Social Security and Medicare will be broke.

Our politicians don't have the guts to do anything about it. Or even talk about it.

It's easy to see why.

Recently, France's president, trying to keep his country's pension system from going broke, raised France's retirement age from 62 to a measly 64.

People have been protesting ever since.

In America, politicians who even hint at such solutions get screamed at by misinformed seniors: "Don't touch my retirement funds! You took money from my paycheck for years; that's my money I'm getting back!"

But it's not. It's young people's money. People my age rarely realize that most of us now get back triple what we paid in.

When Social Security began, a government retirement plan made financial sense. Most Americans didn't even live until age 65. Social Security was just for the minority who did.

*  *  *

Source:  https://reason.com/2023/05/31/social-security-and-medicare-are-ticking-time-bombs/
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on June 01, 2023, 03:21:52 pm
Haha luckily our young people vote for people who will probably do whatever it takes and tax whomever they can to save them.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 01, 2023, 04:57:26 pm
From the article….

In America, politicians who even hint at such solutions get screamed at by misinformed seniors: "Don't touch my retirement funds! You took money from my paycheck for years; that's my money I'm getting back!"

Ha!!

How many times is that myth  repeated even  on this forum ?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on June 01, 2023, 05:44:11 pm
There is one thing both Wall Street and DC can't stand ... a pile of personal savings that they can't get their grubby, covetus hands on.

I fully expect Dems to target private retirement accounts owners as "rich" that need to pay their "fair share" to backfill shortfalls in Medicare and Social Security coffers that are filled with Congressional / Treasury I.O.U.'s.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: jmyrlefuller on June 01, 2023, 09:26:00 pm
Haha luckily our young people vote for people who will probably do whatever it takes and tax whomever they can to save them.
except themselves.

Social(ist) Security and Medicare are both predicated on taxes that, because there's a cap on how much an individual can be taxed, the solvency is based less on national economic health and more on how many people are paying in comparing to drawing out. During the latter part of the 20th century, because of the baby boom, the system worked great. Such was the surplus SS was drawing that the overall budget was balanced for a brief time in the 1990s, an extremely rare achievement.

But now, by and large, they've stopped having kids. So fewer people are paying into the system as the Boomers flip to the other side of the ledger... and that's how we're where we are at.

So what's the solution?

Perhaps stiff penalties for those who get to retirement age without having children to replace them in the workforce.
"Rich auntie" might think twice about spurning that "incel" to avoid the responsibilities of marriage and family if it's her retirement at stake.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 01, 2023, 10:25:54 pm
except themselves.

Social(ist) Security and Medicare are both predicated on taxes that, because there's a cap on how much an individual can be taxed, the solvency is based less on national economic health and more on how many people are paying in comparing to drawing out. During the latter part of the 20th century, because of the baby boom, the system worked great. Such was the surplus SS was drawing that the overall budget was balanced for a brief time in the 1990s, an extremely rare achievement.

But now, by and large, they've stopped having kids. So fewer people are paying into the system as the Boomers flip to the other side of the ledger... and that's how we're where we are at.

So what's the solution?

Perhaps stiff penalties for those who get to retirement age without having children to replace them in the workforce.
"Rich auntie" might think twice about spurning that "incel" to avoid the responsibilities of marriage and family if it's her retirement at stake.

That is a fascinating perspective I never thought of, @jmyrlefuller.  Truly.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Fishrrman on June 01, 2023, 11:01:37 pm
I read an interesting comment elsewhere that postulated the problems currently with Social Security are due to the unusual "demographic bulge" created by the baby boomer generation -- and that once the boomers die off, the problem will resolve itself.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on June 02, 2023, 12:19:30 am
The Boomers aren't dying young enough, fast enough to avoid an actuarial cliff. 

Older generations will have to pilfer wealth from younger generations to fulfill promises made by politicians decades ago when life expectancy was shorter.

Most societies survive and progress by older members making sacrifices to prepare younger generations to supplant their predecessors - succession planning.

Our society, and its Government, is a kleptocratic gerontocracy that will leave a future societies worse off than their own.

 ////00000////

The only logical outcome ...

(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/soylent-green-bo-kev.jpg)

I read an interesting comment elsewhere that postulated the problems currently with Social Security are due to the unusual "demographic bulge" created by the baby boomer generation -- and that once the boomers die off, the problem will resolve itself.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 12:26:56 am
The problem does not come from mailing monthly checks to  those  who spent their entire working lives paying into it,the problem comes from spending this money to  feed,clothe,house,educate,pay utility bills,pay doctor bills,etc,etc,etc to people who USED to be identified  as "Illegal Aliens",who have never paid even one thin dime into  the system.

We all know this,just like we all now know that nothing will be done to change it because the DNC needs those votes.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 12:31:19 am
From the article….

In America, politicians who even hint at such solutions get screamed at by misinformed seniors: "Don't touch my retirement funds! You took money from my paycheck for years; that's my money I'm getting back!"

Ha!!

How many times is that myth  repeated even  on this forum ?

@LMAO

Ok,so what do YOU  call a mandatory retirement system where people work their whole lives and pay into it after being told this money  will be returned to them in the form of SS retirement or disability checks once they get too old and/or too feeble to work?

You are ok with  the government stealing money from citizens as long as you aren't  one of that citizens group?

What would YOU have elderly  AMERICANS who worked and paid into the system their whole lives do,starve to death in the streets or die because they couldn't afford medical care?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 12:37:13 am
I read an interesting comment elsewhere that postulated the problems currently with Social Security are due to the unusual "demographic bulge" created by the baby boomer generation -- and that once the boomers die off, the problem will resolve itself.

@Fishrrman

It's not the Baby Boomers as much as it is SS money being spent on illegal aliens,and who  knows what else?

Our gooberment is using SS money to pay for food,clothing,housing,medical care,utility bills,schooling for their children,PLUS monthly SS checks so they will have some spending money.

In exchange  for this,they get serfs that will vote anyway the DNC wants them to vote,and they WILL vote often,and vote early if that is what they are told to do.

Wish I had an answer  that didn't involve the words "shooting and hanging in public",but I don't. I honestly think it has already gone too far to be solved by peaceful means.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 02, 2023, 12:52:04 am
@Fishrrman

It's not the Baby Boomers as much as it is SS money being spent on illegal aliens,and who  knows what else?



False

Demographics is a huge factor in the SS and Medicare insolvency issue
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 02, 2023, 12:53:38 am
@LMAO

Ok,so what do YOU  call a mandatory retirement system where people work their whole lives and pay into it after being told this money  will be returned to them in the form of SS retirement or disability checks once they get too old and/or too feeble to work?



Were is it written that you will get the money you paid into SS and Medicare back?

Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 02, 2023, 12:55:20 am
@LMAO

Ok,so what do YOU  call a mandatory retirement system where people work their whole lives and pay into it after being told this money  will be returned to them in the form of SS retirement or disability checks once they get too old and/or too feeble to work?

You are ok with  the government stealing money from citizens as long as you aren't  one of that citizens group?

What would YOU have elderly  AMERICANS who worked and paid into the system their whole lives do,starve to death in the streets or die because they couldn't afford medical care?

A bait and switch.  Face it, you were lied to.  Considering that SS and Medicare were socialist programs originally dreamt up by liberals/progs, why would you be in the least bit surprised about the fact you were lied to?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: GtHawk on June 02, 2023, 01:47:15 am
Hey what's the panic all about? The dems/socialists(okay they are the same) have a fix already in place, it's called open border and letting millions of workers(my ass) in to work all those open jobs and pay just oodles and oodles of taxes into social security and medicare. Except of course for the tons of them that work under the table and pay no taxes but will be able to get social security and medicare for free courtesy of working Americans just like they get their food stamps, what ever equivalent of free medical like California's MediCal, Section 9 housing, food stamps, clothing allowance, etc., etc.
 And then there all those poor disabled 'migrants'(my ass) that will be given SSD immediately probably also get SSI, oh and lets not forget the elderly migrants who without ever working a day in America will be gifted SS by the democrat/ socialists. Bitchin plan by democrats giving the 'migrants' for free everything that an American and legal immigrant has to bust their nut to earn with a lifetime of blood, sweat and tears for the sole purpose of buying votes.

Yup Medicare and Social Security is screwed!
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 02, 2023, 01:59:06 am
The dems/socialists(okay they are the same) have a fix already in place, it's called open border and letting millions of workers(my ass) in to work all those open jobs and pay just oodles and oodles of taxes into social security and medicare.

This is probably one of the unsaid reasons the government is opening the border. They believe that illegal immigrant workers will make up the demographic shortfall for paying into SS and Medicare.

Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 02, 2023, 02:03:04 am
This is probably one of the unsaid reasons the government is opening the border. They believe that illegal immigrant workers will make up the demographic shortfall for paying into SS and Medicare.

You can't be serious.  With all the freebies they don't need to work.  It's about votes period.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 02, 2023, 03:38:24 am
From the article….

In America, politicians who even hint at such solutions get screamed at by misinformed seniors: "Don't touch my retirement funds! You took money from my paycheck for years; that's my money I'm getting back!"

Ha!!

How many times is that myth  repeated even  on this forum ?
I believe the complete sentiment is that before that is taken, how about shutting down some of the money going to people who never paid in, never worked, still don't, many of whom don't even belong here.

As for Social Security, I have been paying in for 53 years and the only money I got so far is a $225 death benefit when my wife died. She never collected a dime, either.

Now, go check out the retirement packages for those who pissed the money away.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 03:42:32 am
False

Demographics is a huge factor in the SS and Medicare insolvency issue

@LMAO

BullBush! You can't possibly be THAT freaking  foolish,so what is motivating you to claim that  crap?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 03:43:34 am
Were is it written that you will get the money you paid into SS and Medicare back?

@LMAO  Where is it written that we WON'T?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 03:46:30 am
Quote
A bait and switch.  Face it, you were lied to.

That's odd. Everybody  I know that paid into it got a monthly check when they retired. Even me.

 
Quote
Considering that SS and Medicare were socialist programs originally dreamt up by liberals/progs, why would you be in the least bit surprised about the fact you were lied to?

Blah,blah,bullshit squared. You are PROBABLY mad because your income is so high that you  won't qualify for SS payments after you retire.

After all,it is ALL about YOU,right?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 03:48:22 am
This is probably one of the unsaid reasons the government is opening the border. They believe that illegal immigrant workers will make up the demographic shortfall for paying into SS and Medicare.

@LMAO

How are they going to do that when they are going to end up living in welfare housing and drawing AFDC,and maybe even disability?

Which of course,will come from SS even though they  never paid a nickel into the system.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 02, 2023, 03:51:13 am
@LMAO

BullBush! You can't possibly be THAT freaking  foolish,so what is motivating you to claim that  crap?


Don't take my word for it.  Here's the Social Security Administration in their own words

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v66n4/v66n4p37.html
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 03:51:15 am
I believe the complete sentiment is that before that is taken, how about shutting down some of the money going to people who never paid in, never worked, still don't, many of whom don't even belong here.

As for Social Security, I have been paying in for 53 years and the only money I got so far is a $225 death benefit when my wife died. She never collected a dime, either.

@Smokin Joe

So retire and start collecting it.

You don't really expect to collect SS and continue working for pay,do you?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 02, 2023, 03:53:15 am
@LMAO  Where is it written that we WON'T?

So because the law doesn't specifically say that you won't get back everything you paid into SS that means, by default, you're owed that money?? That's the argument you're going with???


LOL!!!!! :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 02, 2023, 03:53:44 am
@Smokin Joe

So retire and start collecting it.

You don't really expect to collect SS and continue working for pay,do you?
I am of full retirement age, and can do both. I will work for as long as I can, because the money is worth less each day, and a combination of bad investments and misfortune have depleted my savings. I have to rebuild my 'nest egg' at this late date.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Hoodat on June 02, 2023, 04:11:14 am
During the latter part of the 20th century, because of the baby boom, the system worked great. .  .  .  But now, by and large, they've stopped having kids. So fewer people are paying into the system as the Boomers flip to the other side of the ledger... and that's how we're where we are at.

That is the eventual outcome with all Ponzi schemes.


Such was the surplus SS was drawing that the overall budget was balanced for a brief time in the 1990s, an extremely rare achievement.

If by "brief time" you mean several weeks or a few months, then yes, one could consider the budget to be in balance.  But for the entire fiscal year, that hasn't happened since 1957.  And even though SS was in surplus during that time, the greatest benefactor towards fiscal responsibility came from slashing Defense spending from 6% of GDP down to 3% of GDP, thanks to the Peace Dividend from ending the Cold War.


So what's the solution?

Get government's greedy hands off of it and turn it into a personal retirement account for all workers - one that actually invests the money instead of handing it over to government to spend on other stuff immediately.  Short of that, one obvious solution would be to stop paying out Social Security benefits to anyone below retirement age.  This is where 30% of all Social Security payments go.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Hoodat on June 02, 2023, 04:14:52 am
I am of full retirement age, and can do both. I will work for as long as I can, because the money is worth less each day, and a combination of bad investments and misfortune have depleted my savings. I have to rebuild my 'nest egg' at this late date.

I'm in the same boat, sort of.  I didn't start working a real job with a 401(k) plan until my mid-40s.  So I have a lot of catching up to do.  Planning to stay at this new job until age 70 or more.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 02, 2023, 09:01:07 am
That's odd. Everybody  I know that paid into it got a monthly check when they retired. Even me.

 
Blah,blah,bullshit squared. You are PROBABLY mad because your income is so high that you  won't qualify for SS payments after you retire.

After all,it is ALL about YOU,right?


:mauslaff:

You do realize, don’t you boy, that social security is not means tested, so even the richest billionaires get it.

No, I doubt you do; rational thinking isn’t your strong suit.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Gefn on June 02, 2023, 09:12:36 am
Bkmk
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 10:16:47 am
So because the law doesn't specifically say that you won't get back everything you paid into SS that means, by default, you're owed that money?? That's the argument you're going with???


LOL!!!!! :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

@LMAO

Why not,since it is the truth?

And you don't' care about the truth. What you  REALLY  care about is the money YOU are having to pay into  the system because you think you are earning or will earn enough money that you won't need it.

AKA: Selfish self-interest.

I am betting your opinion would change quickly  if you  were somehow injured and unable to work.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 10:20:58 am
I am of full retirement age, and can do both. I will work for as long as I can, because the money is worth less each day, and a combination of bad investments and misfortune have depleted my savings. I have to rebuild my 'nest egg' at this late date.

@Smokin Joe

I am sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately,there seems to be many,many people in the same boat as you these days.

Inflation is killing us all.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 10:30:50 am



Get government's greedy hands off of it and turn it into a personal retirement account for all workers - one that actually invests the money instead of handing it over to government to spend on other stuff immediately.  Short of that, one obvious solution would be to stop paying out Social Security benefits to anyone below retirement age.  This is where 30% of all Social Security payments go.

@Hoodat

I suspect that IF you could find the data that you  would discover a much larger percentage of it went to people on welfare who have never had,or even tried to have a steady job,illegal aliens.

As for the "stop paying to  those below retirement age" bullshit,providing a fund for people who become permanently injured or terminally ill with some disease is the PRIME reason SS was created. It is an insurance program for those who can't afford to buy insurance.

Face it,there are a LOT of good people out there who,for whatever reason,spent their entire working lives working the menial jobs because of a lack of education,family illnesses requiring them to only work part-time,and a host of other reasons who would be begging in the streets if it weren't for SS. And "Yes,until recent times,EVERYBODY  that drew SS money had paid into it.

It is only recently that the Dims and their RINO butt-buddies have somehow managed to change laws so they can steal that money and give it to people who have never even once paid into the system,or who have not only never paid into it,they are not even Americans.

"Vote buying" with your retirement money.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 10:31:53 am
I'm in the same boat, sort of.  I didn't start working a real job with a 401(k) plan until my mid-40s.  So I have a lot of catching up to do.  Planning to stay at this new job until age 70 or more.

@Hoodat

I planned on working until the day I died,but those plans didn't work out.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 02, 2023, 10:35:49 am
:mauslaff:

You do realize, don’t you boy, that social security is not means tested, so even the richest billionaires get it.

No, I doubt you do; rational thinking isn’t your strong suit.

@Kamaji

Yeah,I DO realize that,you punk-ass POS.

So freaking what? They paid into it,didn't they? Why  do you have a problem with people getting what they paid for? Is it because it's all about "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!" with you ,and you are afraid you won't get it so you don't want anyone else getting it,either?

You should change your screen name to "It's all about Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!"
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 02, 2023, 11:44:28 am
@LMAO

Why not,since it is the truth?

And you don't' care about the truth. What you  REALLY  care about is the money YOU are having to pay into  the system because you think you are earning or will earn enough money that you won't need it.

AKA: Selfish self-interest.

I am betting your opinion would change quickly  if you  were somehow injured and unable to work.

How about instead of hurling insults you prove me wrong. Show me in the Social Security law where it says that you must get back everything you put in. Show me where it says the government must return everything that you’ve paid in your Social Security.

I’ll wait.

You told me I was ignorant when I said the driving force behind Social Security insolvency is demographics. I gave you a link to the Social Security administration itself that proves my point. That’s how you prove your point.

So instead of attacking other members on this issue that you’ve decided that you want to remain clearly ignorant on, put up or shut up. Link me to the Social security law itself and highlight were it says, in fact, you are owed that money.

I’ll save you time. You won’t find it. The government could announce today that they’re using all the Social Security money for green energy and you couldn’t do squat about it except bitch about it in a political forum.

And it doesn’t matter what my opinion is or what it would be if something were to happen to me. My opinion does not supersede the law.

The law, economics, mathematics, demographics, and even a supreme court ruling are not in your favor on this issue regardless how many times you lash out at other members
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 02, 2023, 11:49:56 am
How about instead of hurling insults you prove me wrong. Show me in the Social Security law where it says that you must get back everything you put in. Show me where it says the government must return everything that you’ve paid in your Social Security.

I’ll wait.

You told me I was ignorant when I said the driving force behind Social Security insolvency is demographics. I gave you a link to the Social Security administration itself that proves my point. That’s how you prove your point.

So instead of attacking other members on this issue that you’ve decided that you want to remain clearly ignorant on, put up or shut up. Link me to the Social security law itself and highlight were it says, in fact, you are owed that money.

I’ll save you time. You won’t find it. The government could announce today that they’re using all the Social Security money for green energy and you couldn’t do squat about it except bitch about it in a political forum.

And it doesn’t matter what my opinion is or what it would be if something were to happen to me. My opinion does not supersede the law.

The law, economics, mathematics, demographics, and even a supreme court ruling are not in your favor on this issue regardless how many times you lash out at other members

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: roamer_1 on June 02, 2023, 02:40:38 pm
@LMAO

Why not,since it is the truth?

And you don't' care about the truth. What you  REALLY  care about is the money YOU are having to pay into  the system because you think you are earning or will earn enough money that you won't need it.

AKA: Selfish self-interest.

I am betting your opinion would change quickly  if you  were somehow injured and unable to work.

@sneakypete

I stand with these fellows.

I am injured, and now back on disability.
Yet I stand with them.
Ask why.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 02, 2023, 07:39:41 pm
@Smokin Joe

I am sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately,there seems to be many,many people in the same boat as you these days.

Inflation is killing us all.
I am just thankful that I am still able to work.
Many I know and have known are not.
I contend it keeps me young.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: roamer_1 on June 02, 2023, 07:55:13 pm
I am just thankful that I am still able to work.
Many I know and have known are not.
I contend it keeps me young.

A blessing straight out of heaven, I'll tell you what. I would love nothing more than to die with my boots on.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 02, 2023, 08:41:15 pm
A blessing straight out of heaven, I'll tell you what. I would love nothing more than to die with my boots on.
I have had a few chances to do so, but have so far resisted that call.
When it is my time, it will be my time.
Until then, I reckon God has more for me to do.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Hoodat on June 02, 2023, 10:21:29 pm
A blessing straight out of heaven, I'll tell you what. I would love nothing more than to die with my boots on.

Even better, to have Yeshua show up at your door and tell you to put your boots on.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: roamer_1 on June 02, 2023, 10:32:19 pm
Even better, to have Yeshua show up at your door and tell you to put your boots on.

Been there done that.  happy77
And grateful for every step I have made since 2012 when he got me out of that cursed wheelchair...
But now he's gonna have to do it again.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 03, 2023, 01:23:38 am
Quote
How about instead of hurling insults you prove me wrong. Show me in the Social Security law where it says that you must get back everything you put in. Show me where it says the government must return everything that you’ve paid in your Social Security.

The ONLY reason you are making that request is because it is a Bull-Bush request,and you know it can't be proven unless someone has kept EVERY pay stubb they have gotten their whole life,as well as EVERY SS check. Who  the hell does that? If someone does,you just know  that anal people are making fun of him or her for being obsessive.

Quote
I’ll wait.

Cool beans! Might I suggest you try  holding your breath while you are waiting?

Quote
You told me I was ignorant when I said the driving force behind Social Security insolvency is demographics. I gave you a link to the Social Security administration itself that proves my point. That’s how you prove your point.

Ok,I will type this slowly  so that you might "get it". Demographics is NOT SUPPOSED  to have one single damn thing to do with  SS,because ONLY citizens who  have paid into  the system are supposed to get payments FROM the system.

The "Driving Force behind SS insolvency" is politicians from BOTH the left and the right,as well as a few from the middle,stealing money from the SS Trust Fund to buy  the votes of illegal aliens and useless scum who have never held a single steady job in their whole lives.

IF the SS Trust Fund were to have been managed properly,there probably wouldn't be any problem with  it today. Lots of people like to blame it on the illegal aliens,but the truth is they just get the money,they don't determine WHO  gets it or how much.

The people to blame are weasel politicians and political appointees. You can't really blame the illegals for getting it if it is given to them.

 
Quote
So instead of attacking other members on this issue that you’ve decided that you want to remain clearly ignorant on, put up or shut up. Link me to the Social security law itself and highlight were it says, in fact, you are owed that money.

No.


Quote
I’ll save you time. You won’t find it. The government could announce today that they’re using all the Social Security money for green energy and you couldn’t do squat about it except bitch about it in a political forum.

And what would YOU do about it,bubba,continue to have hissy  fits?

Quote
And it doesn’t matter what my opinion is or what it would be if something were to happen to me. My opinion does not supersede the law.

The same can be said about anyone's opinion.Even the opinions of lawmakers.

Quote
The law, economics, mathematics, demographics, and even a supreme court ruling are not in your favor on this issue regardless how many times you lash out at other members


Don't let it worry you. Just try holding your breath  until you turn blue.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 03, 2023, 01:26:18 am
@sneakypete

I stand with these fellows.

I am injured, and now back on disability.
Yet I stand with them.
Ask why.

@roamer_1

Because you live like you are in the 18th  century  and live in a shack in the wilderness? Truth  to tell,you probably don't need the money because of the truth in a common truism,which states "How much money you make isn't as important as how much money you NEED." (Emphasis is mine)
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 03, 2023, 01:28:38 am
I am just thankful that I am still able to work.
Many I know and have known are not.
I contend it keeps me young.

@Smokin Joe

I LOVED working and would love  to be working now,but Agent Orange and Stage 4 Lymphoma showed me who was the boss.

Not to mention having more than a few decades behind me.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 03, 2023, 01:29:35 am
A blessing straight out of heaven, I'll tell you what. I would love nothing more than to die with my boots on.

@roamer_1

THERE is something we can agree on!
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 03, 2023, 01:30:52 am
Been there done that.  happy77
And grateful for every step I have made since 2012 when he got me out of that cursed wheelchair...
But now he's gonna have to do it again.

@roamer_1

As a wise man from my army days once noted,"Getting old ain't for sissies!"
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 03, 2023, 01:48:15 am
The ONLY reason you are making that request is because it is a Bull-Bush request,and you know it can't be proven unless someone has kept EVERY pay stubb they have gotten their whole life,as well as EVERY SS check. Who  the hell does that? If someone does,you just know  that anal people are making fun of him or her for being obsessive.

Cool beans! Might I suggest you try  holding your breath while you are waiting?

Ok,I will type this slowly  so that you might "get it". Demographics is NOT SUPPOSED  to have one single damn thing to do with  SS,because ONLY citizens who  have paid into  the system are supposed to get payments FROM the system.

The "Driving Force behind SS insolvency" is politicians from BOTH the left and the right,as well as a few from the middle,stealing money from the SS Trust Fund to buy  the votes of illegal aliens and useless scum who have never held a single steady job in their whole lives.

IF the SS Trust Fund were to have been managed properly,there probably wouldn't be any problem with  it today. Lots of people like to blame it on the illegal aliens,but the truth is they just get the money,they don't determine WHO  gets it or how much.

The people to blame are weasel politicians and political appointees. You can't really blame the illegals for getting it if it is given to them.

 
No.


And what would YOU do about it,bubba,continue to have hissy  fits?

The same can be said about anyone's opinion.Even the opinions of lawmakers.


Don't let it worry you. Just try holding your breath  until you turn blue.

Here’s some advice

Why don’t you get better informed on this issue before expressing your easily countered opinions

Demographics are the reason SS is insolvent. Stop blaming illegal immigration for everything you hate in the world. I provided a link to the SSA itself and you still choose to remain ignorant. Your opinions and feelings don’t supersede facts

You could deport every illegal immigrant tomorrow and SS and Medicare would still be just as insolvent

I’ll ask again. Show me were in the law were it says you’re entitled to get back everything you paid into SS. It has nothing to do with people keeping paystubs whatever the hell that even means

Do you even understand what people mean when they use the term “unfunded liabilities” when discussing this subject?

Again, here’s the link that proves my point. Since I’m sure you didn’t bother to read it, I’ll paste and excerpt:

“Due to demographic changes, the U.S. Social Security system will face financial challenges in the near future. Declining fertility rates and increasing life expectancies are causing the U.S. population to age. Today 12 percent of the total population is aged 65 or older, but by 2080, it will be 23 percent. At the same time, the working-age population is shrinking from 60 percent today to a projected 54 percent in 2080. Consequently, the Social Security system is experiencing a declining worker-to-beneficiary ratio, which will fall from 3.3 in 2005 to 2.1 in 2040 (the year in which the Social Security trust fund is projected to be exhausted). This presents a significant challenge to policymakers.”

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v66n4/v66n4p37.html


Nowhere in that do they blame illegal immigration. Now it’s your turn. Show me where all that is wrong and it’s the fault of the illegal immigrants.

I have read your replies to people on this subject, and not once have you countered with anything factual. It’s all been about “your feelings” along with a flurry of strawman arguments

I have read the Social Security law  and I’ve also read Fleming vs Nestor. There is nothing anywhere that says that you’re entitled to Social Security, and the 1960 Supreme Court ruling confirmed that. You have no say in what happens with Social Security dollars once taken out of your check. You tell me I’m wrong.  I tell you to show me where I’m wrong and so far you still haven’t.

Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: roamer_1 on June 03, 2023, 01:57:19 am
@roamer_1

Because you live like you are in the 18th  century  and live in a shack in the wilderness? Truth  to tell,you probably don't need the money because of the truth in a common truism,which states "How much money you make isn't as important as how much money you NEED." (Emphasis is mine)

@sneakypete

I live in a modern cabin on half an acre, 1 mile from a town of about 30k.

A little while back I took a hike through the Valley of the Shadow of Death.
Since that time, my whole pantry was hauled away because I have a salt restriction.
All of my canned meats, all my smoked meats, all my sausages. All my canned vegetables, Nearly everything. I can't have any.

Now I must eat only fresh vegetables and fruits, burger and unprocessed meat. Or frozen health food dishes that are 3 or 4 bucks a plate. I can't get up and stand in front of  stove and cook  very much yet, so it's mostly the frozen spendy meals.

I can't hunt. I can't fish. I can't chop wood. I can't get down on the ground to build a fire.
And I can't work. Not even at my computer bench.

I still have my place up the holler, but I can't get there, and couldn't live up there if I tried.
Everything I need from town has to be brought to me, often by a service. Someone else mows my lawn and plows my drive, sometimes a service.

I DO still have a freezer full of meat, but it ain't what it was, and it won't be there for next winter, for sure.

So go on in your evaluation of my lesser need.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 03, 2023, 02:00:33 am
Here’s some advice.....

"blah,blah,blah,squared."
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 03, 2023, 02:06:24 am


Lol

Yeah, I figured that would be your reply. I don’t blame you and I accept your surrender.

But your reply still doesn’t change the facts. I can understand someone not understanding a subject and willing to learn more about it. It’s the choosing to remain ignorant despite the facts being presented that’s the problem. And what’s worse, you’re proud of your ignorance on this subject


Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 03, 2023, 11:10:06 am
Actually, I have met a few people like SP who falsely believe that SS and Medicare is money that was taken out of their checks to be returned to them upon turning 65. That is the true “ Big Lie.”

They believe, like SP does, that “it’s taken out of my check therefore, it’s mine.” But that money is spent the minute it gets to DC. When money is taken out of your check for Social Security, it is a tax, just like income tax, sales tax, property tax, etc. etc. You have no guarantee that you’re gonna get any of that back nor is there any law that requires that you do.

And people can put their fingers in her ears, and close her eyes and go “la la la la la la” all day. But that doesn’t mean reality goes away

Here is an interesting article about the so-called Social Security trust fund and an excerpt that’s applicable

“Nor do the purported trust “beneficiaries” have property in the fund to which they have an enforceable property right, as beneficiaries of a true trust do. Under questioning by Representative John McCormack of Massachusetts during the 1939 hearings, Board Chairman Altmeyer revealed that Social Security maintains no accounts containing funds earmarked for individuals, and never had.14 Its accounts, then, are just record-keeping entities: file folders, not piggy banks. No individual funds necessarily means no individual property in the Trust Fund.

Section 201 said nothing about property rights—for good reason. In arguing Helvering v. Davis (1937), the Supreme Court decision that upheld Social Security’s constitutionality, Assistant Attorney General Robert Jackson stated that under Social Security, “There is no contract created by which any person becomes entitled as a matter of right to sue the United States or to maintain a claim for any particular sum of money. Not only is there no contract implied but it is expressly negatived, because it is provided in the act, section 1104, that it may be repealed, altered, or amended in any of its provisions at any time.”

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-the-social-security-trust-fund/


And there it is

SP has probably been told all his life that SS was his money taken out of his checks for his future. So he’s now learning for the first time that what he was told was a political lie. That explains his responses and resistance to facts



Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 03, 2023, 01:16:43 pm
Lol

@happy77

Yeah, I figured that would be your reply. I don’t blame you and I accept your surrender.

But your reply still doesn’t change the facts. I can understand someone not understanding a subject and willing to learn more about it. It’s the choosing to remain ignorant despite the facts being presented that’s the problem. And what’s worse, you’re proud of your ignorance on this subject

@LMAO

Yuh,weeze jist por dum rednecks  whut doan no whuts gud fur us,n need edumaticated beyond ur bility  ta comprehinde thunkers lak u ta show usins de way!

Macho grassyass,amaco!
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 03, 2023, 03:06:15 pm
@LMAO

Yuh,weeze jist por dum rednecks  whut doan no whuts gud fur us,n need edumaticated beyond ur bility  ta comprehinde thunkers lak u ta show usins de way!

Macho grassyass,amaco!

Judging by your responses on this issue, presenting you with facts was an exercise in futility
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: sneakypete on June 03, 2023, 04:27:56 pm
Judging by your responses on this issue, presenting you with facts was an exercise in futility

@LMAO

Your problem is you confuse selfish self-interest with facts.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 03, 2023, 04:53:04 pm
@LMAO

Your problem is you confuse selfish self-interest with facts.

No

You’re confusing opinions with facts. Ive provided facts. You’ve given opinions

There’s a difference. Believing in something doesn’t make it so

So, I’ll grant you one more courtesy to back your opinions. I’ve done my part. It’s now your turn

I’ll ask again

1) Show me were it’s the illegal immigrants vs demographics that’s contributing to SS insolvency

          and, and I’ve asked this several times of you but still nothing

2) Show me were in the SS law that says you’re entitled to get back what you put in

No opinions. No strawman arguments. No “blah blah blah” replies. A link would be nice.

I’m confident you won’t or can’t do it but maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised this time

However, judging by your responses, I  have a hunch you didn’t read any of the links that I posted that back my case
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: roamer_1 on June 03, 2023, 05:36:41 pm
@sneakypete

Again...
I am disabled.
I am living off social security.

I stand with these fellows.

Ask why.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 03, 2023, 07:01:45 pm
Interesting. On the one hand, posters assert there is no separate Social Security fund. THat the "lockbox" the Congress stuffed full of IOUs to fund other social programs (welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing) never existed and that those funds were always part of the general fund. Just another tax.

On the other hand, it is asserted that the billions being spent on providing the services the alleged 'lockbox' was raided for, now to millions of illegal aliens, as well as the usual suspects and their great grandchildren and every generation between, have no effect on the solvency of the program the money was stolen from.

If there is/was no separate fund, then anything taken from the budget to pay for something else is, in fact raiding funds which could go to pay back the Social Security/medicare payments. No way it doesn't have an effect, because trillions have gone down the proverbial rathole to subsidize poverty, supporting some with services that those footing the bill for decades have only intermittently been able to secure for themselves out of what is left when the government is done sucking the life out of a paycheck.

Look at your social security card. Does it say "For social security and tax purposes only--not for identification" on it? Mine does. I understand the newer ones don't say that.

But the older ones do, and I must ask: Why differentiate between Social Security and tax purposes if the two are just the same?

The answer, of course is that they are not. The government in the 1960s would not have bothered to differentiate if Social Security was 'just another tax' to be spent however it pleased, and it wasn't until someone in Congress came up with the whole IOU angle to raid the funds to spend more money than would have been available without running a deficit that the cards got changed, and the lines blurred.

According to the HHS' figures over 487 billion go to Medicaid and CHIP services.
Another 460 billion, to interest on the National Debt, for perspective, from the Treasury Dept.

That isn't Social Security.

The SSA is a whole different Agency. To be sure, the budget for the SSA approaches 1 trillion dollars, but again, people paid into it, continue to do so, whether young and just starting work, or whether they've been working for decades. Congress raided it to buy votes, and hasn't paid 'the fund' back. Increasingly, seniors are continuing to work, and ironically, paying into the fund even as they collect benefits.

As for just another tax, please explain why social security earnings (for the purpose of levying the tax) have a cap, when there is no cap on taxable earnings for income taxes. You could make $300K, and be taxed on most of that for income tax purposes, but only pay Social Security tax on a fraction of that (approaching half, now). Granted, that cap is a moving target, and goes up every year, but why have a cap at all if it is just another tax?

If you die, like my wife did before collecting any benefits, your benefits will be limited to the paltry "death benefit" Social Security pays out.  (Not enough to pay for a decent container for your loved one's ashes, much less a funeral or coffin.) Nothing else is guaranteed.

Although Medicaid and Medicare are lumped together pretty often in budget numbers, kindly keep in mind that Medicare Part B is not free, and that if one really wants good coverage you find an Advantage plan, Parts C and D, or similar coverage on your own. While the cost may be reduced compared to full on health insurance, you have been picking up the tab all along.
That budget doesn't include Indian Health (feather not dot), which thankfully picked up all but a very small fraction of the hospital bills associated with my wife's passing.
But Indian Health is a treaty obligation, not an "entitlement".  Six million acres of shortgrass prairie and prime farmland 'bought' that. The tribe got screwed out of another four million acres later.

My point, though, is that administrative agencies for Social Security and other "entitlements" are separate. The one group is administered by HHS, the other by the SSA. Given the inertia of Federal Agencies, it is apparent that the two are not the same, nor were intended to be, otherwise, one (SSA) would have been absorbed by another agency, or absorbed the functions of the other entitlements.
The key problem is that those on Capitol Hill have been playing fast and loose with our money for decades, neither exercising fiscal restraint, nor abstaining from purchasing votes with the money they spend. This leads to inefficiency, waste, fraud, and outright theft. Had that restraint been employed where there were no obligations to provide funding, be it research grants, funding universities with huge endowments, waste in government contracts (especially DOD, but others as well) and the half a trillion every year shelled out to the 'poor' who neither work for that money and benefits, nor pay into those programs, and include the illegal aliens being imported into America in record numbers.

According to https://balancingeverything.com/welfare-statistics/ (https://balancingeverything.com/welfare-statistics/)

Quote
55% of non-citizen households in the USA used one or more welfare programs in 2018.

In comparison, only 32% of native households participated in welfare programs in the same year. Also, the immigrants on welfare statistics point to significantly higher use of food assistance programs among non-citizen households. Namely, 39% of these households needed food assistance compared to 19% of native households. Immigrant households that have lived in the USA for more than ten years participate more (50%) in welfare programs. By contrast, about 44% of those who moved to the country within the last ten years receive governmental assistance.

I'd say that makes a dent. The only Social Security non-citizens qualify for is SSI.

From the cited source,
Quote
The largest share of SSI funds in August 2022 went to the visually impaired and disabled.

Out of $4,982,125 paid in SSI in August 2022, 88.6% went to the visually impaired and disabled eligibility category. Welfare statistics show that people from this category received a total of $4,414,744 against $567,381 that went to the aged. In the United States, most people who receive public assistance are aged 18–64. This age group got a total of $2,997,752. Americans aged 65 or older received $1,194,039 in SSI funds, while the remaining $790,333 went to those under 18.

It did not differentiate between citizen and alien.

There are lots of places to bring the budget in line without reducing Social Security benefits, and one would be to deny them to non citizens, another, to raise the earnings cap on the tax.

But there are lots of sacred cows in the Federal budget that could be led to market before cutting Social Security to those who have their qualifying number of work years paid in.



Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 03, 2023, 07:05:41 pm
@sneakypete

Again...
I am disabled.
I am living off social security.

I stand with these fellows.

Ask why.

I haven’t taken a firm position on any proposals when it comes to these programs as reform is coming whether some like it or not and I want to see the pros and cons of all

I’m just simply pointing out the facts when it comes to both programs. No, illegals are not the reason for both program’s insolvency and they are not programs were money was taken out of people’s pay to be given back when they retire

Those two myths have to be dispelled before any reforms are proposed
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 03, 2023, 07:17:00 pm
@Smokin Joe

This is why the Dems always raise the specter of slashing SS and Medicare every time there's a discussion of the federal debt limit (which we no longer have as a backstop).

There is never a fear of cutting SNAP and other welfare payments.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 07:20:13 pm
Interesting. On the one hand, posters assert there is no separate Social Security fund. THat the "lockbox" the Congress stuffed full of IOUs to fund other social programs (welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing) never existed and that those funds were always part of the general fund. Just another tax.

On the other hand, it is asserted that the billions being spent on providing the services the alleged 'lockbox' was raided for, now to millions of illegal aliens, as well as the usual suspects and their great grandchildren and every generation between, have no effect on the solvency of the program the money was stolen from.

If there is/was no separate fund, then anything taken from the budget to pay for something else is, in fact raiding funds which could go to pay back the Social Security/medicare payments. No way it doesn't have an effect, because trillions have gone down the proverbial rathole to subsidize poverty, supporting some with services that those footing the bill for decades have only intermittently been able to secure for themselves out of what is left when the government is done sucking the life out of a paycheck.

Look at your social security card. Does it say "For social security and tax purposes only--not for identification" on it? Mine does. I understand the newer ones don't say that.

But the older ones do, and I must ask: Why differentiate between Social Security and tax purposes if the two are just the same?

The answer, of course is that they are not. The government in the 1960s would not have bothered to differentiate if Social Security was 'just another tax' to be spent however it pleased, and it wasn't until someone in Congress came up with the whole IOU angle to raid the funds to spend more money than would have been available without running a deficit that the cards got changed, and the lines blurred.

According to the HHS' figures over 487 billion go to Medicaid and CHIP services.
Another 460 billion, to interest on the National Debt, for perspective, from the Treasury Dept.

That isn't Social Security.

The SSA is a whole different Agency. To be sure, the budget for the SSA approaches 1 trillion dollars, but again, people paid into it, continue to do so, whether young and just starting work, or whether they've been working for decades. Congress raided it to buy votes, and hasn't paid 'the fund' back. Increasingly, seniors are continuing to work, and ironically, paying into the fund even as they collect benefits.

As for just another tax, please explain why social security earnings (for the purpose of levying the tax) have a cap, when there is no cap on taxable earnings for income taxes. You could make $300K, and be taxed on most of that for income tax purposes, but only pay Social Security tax on a fraction of that (approaching half, now). Granted, that cap is a moving target, and goes up every year, but why have a cap at all if it is just another tax?

If you die, like my wife did before collecting any benefits, your benefits will be limited to the paltry "death benefit" Social Security pays out.  (Not enough to pay for a decent container for your loved one's ashes, much less a funeral or coffin.) Nothing else is guaranteed.

Although Medicaid and Medicare are lumped together pretty often in budget numbers, kindly keep in mind that Medicare Part B is not free, and that if one really wants good coverage you find an Advantage plan, Parts C and D, or similar coverage on your own. While the cost may be reduced compared to full on health insurance, you have been picking up the tab all along.
That budget doesn't include Indian Health (feather not dot), which thankfully picked up all but a very small fraction of the hospital bills associated with my wife's passing.
But Indian Health is a treaty obligation, not an "entitlement".  Six million acres of shortgrass prairie and prime farmland 'bought' that. The tribe got screwed out of another four million acres later.

My point, though, is that administrative agencies for Social Security and other "entitlements" are separate. The one group is administered by HHS, the other by the SSA. Given the inertia of Federal Agencies, it is apparent that the two are not the same, nor were intended to be, otherwise, one (SSA) would have been absorbed by another agency, or absorbed the functions of the other entitlements.
The key problem is that those on Capitol Hill have been playing fast and loose with our money for decades, neither exercising fiscal restraint, nor abstaining from purchasing votes with the money they spend. This leads to inefficiency, waste, fraud, and outright theft. Had that restraint been employed where there were no obligations to provide funding, be it research grants, funding universities with huge endowments, waste in government contracts (especially DOD, but others as well) and the half a trillion every year shelled out to the 'poor' who neither work for that money and benefits, nor pay into those programs, and include the illegal aliens being imported into America in record numbers.

According to https://balancingeverything.com/welfare-statistics/ (https://balancingeverything.com/welfare-statistics/)

I'd say that makes a dent. The only Social Security non-citizens qualify for is SSI.

From the cited source,
It did not differentiate between citizen and alien.

There are lots of places to bring the budget in line without reducing Social Security benefits, and one would be to deny them to non citizens, another, to raise the earnings cap on the tax.

But there are lots of sacred cows in the Federal budget that could be led to market before cutting Social Security to those who have their qualifying number of work years paid in.





You never paid into Social Security.  If you worked, you were subjected to an additional, regressive, income tax, the funds from which were transferred to the general fisc.  The Social Security Administration is then funded therefrom.

READ

THE

bleep

LAW

Jesus, people, you are acting like a bunch of bleep liberals on this one.  Why?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 03, 2023, 07:27:32 pm
You never paid into Social Security.  If you worked, you were subjected to an additional, regressive, income tax, the funds from which were transferred to the general fisc.  The Social Security Administration is then funded therefrom.

READ

THE

bleep

LAW

Jesus, people, you are acting like a bunch of bleep liberals on this one.  Why?

Not exactly related to your post, but why aren't other budget items like Welfare subjected to the same threats as SS?  Could it be SS recipients are a large voting bloc being manipulated for Dem votes?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 03, 2023, 07:28:14 pm
You never paid into Social Security.  If you worked, you were subjected to an additional, regressive, income tax, the funds from which were transferred to the general fisc.  The Social Security Administration is then funded therefrom.

READ

THE

bleep

LAW

Jesus, people, you are acting like a bunch of bleep liberals on this one.  Why?
Kindly explain why Social Security/Medicare earnings are capped for taxation purposes, then.

If it was "just another tax" there would be no cap.
We have had far too many Democrat administrations to leave that cash cow standing.

https://www.ssa.gov/history/35act.html#PREAMBLE (https://www.ssa.gov/history/35act.html#PREAMBLE)
Quote
The Social Security Act (Act of August 14, 1935) [H. R. 7260]

An act to provide for the general welfare by establishing a system of Federal old-age benefits, and by enabling the several States to make more adequate provision for aged persons, blind persons, dependent and crippled children, maternal and child welfare, public health, and the administration of their unemployment compensation laws; to establish a Social Security Board; to raise revenue; and for other purposes.

and ...

Quote
TITLE II-FEDERAL OLD-AGE BENEFITS OLD-AGE RESERVE ACCOUNT

Section 201. (a) There is hereby created an account in the Treasury of the United States to be known as the Old-Age Reserve Account hereinafter in this title called the Account. There is hereby authorized to be appropriated to the Account for each fiscal year, beginning with the fiscal year ending June 30, 1937, an amount sufficient as an annual premium to provide for the payments required under this title, such amount to be determined on a reserve basis in accordance with accepted actuarial principles, and based upon such tables of mortality as the Secretary of the Treasury shall from time to time adopt, and upon an interest rate of 3 per centum per annum compounded annually. The Secretary of the Treasury shall submit annually to the Bureau of the Budget an estimate of the appropriations to be made to the Account.
(b) It shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Treasury to invest such portion of the amounts credited to the Account as is not, in his judgment, required to meet current withdrawals. Such investment may be made only in interest-bearing obligations of the United States or in obligations guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the United States. For such purpose such obligations may be acquired
(1) on original issue at par, or
(2) by purchase of outstanding obligations at the market price. The purposes for which obligations of the United States may be issued under the Second Liberty Bond Act, as amended, are hereby extended to authorize the issuance at par of special obligations exclusively to the Account. Such special obligations shall bear interest at the rate of 3 per centum per annum. Obligations other than such special obligations may be acquired for the Account only on such terms as to provide an investment yield of not less than 3 per centum per annum.
(c) Any obligations acquired by the Account (except special obligations issued exclusively to the Account) may be sold at the market price, and such special obligations may be redeemed at par plus accrued interest.
(d) The interest on, and the proceeds from the sale or redemption of, any obligations held in the Account shall be credited to and form a part of the Account.
(e) All amounts credited to the Account shall be available for making payments required under this title.
(f) The Secretary of the Treasury shall include in his annual report the actuarial status of the Account.

OLD-AGE BENEFIT PAYMENTS

SEC. 202. (a) Every qualified individual (as defined in section 210) shall be entitled to receive, with respect to the period beginning on the date he attains the age of sixty-five, or on January 1, 1942, whichever is the later, and ending on the date of his death, an old-age benefit (payable as nearly as practicable in equal monthly installments) as follows:
(1) If the total wages (as defined in section 210) determined by the Board to have been paid to him, with respect to employment (as defined in section 210) after December 31, 1936, and before he attained the age of sixty- five, were not more than $3,000, the old-age benefit shall be at a monthly rate of one-half of 1 per centum of such total wages;
(2) If such total wages were more than $3,000, the old-age benefit shall be at a monthly rate equal to the sum of the following:
(A) One-half of 1 per centum of $3,000; plus
(B) One-twelfth of 1 per centum of the amount by which such total wages exceeded $3,000 and did not exceed $45,000; plus
(C) One-twenty-fourth of 1 per centum of the amount by which such total wages exceeded $45,000.
(b) In no case shall the monthly rate computed under subsection (a) exceed $85.
(c) If the Board finds at any time that more or less than the correct amount has theretofore been paid to any individual under this section, then, under regulations made by the Board, proper adjustments shall be made in connection with subsequent payments under this section to the same individual.
(d) Whenever the Board finds that any qualified individual has received wages with respect to regular employment after he attained the age of sixty-five, the old-age benefit payable to such individual shall be reduced, for each calendar month in any part of which such regular employment occurred, by an amount equal to one month s benefit. Such reduction shall be made, under regulations prescribed by the Board, by deductions from one or more payments of old-age benefit to such individual.

Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 07:30:33 pm
You never paid into Social Security.  If you worked, you were subjected to an additional, regressive, income tax, the funds from which were transferred to the general fisc.  The Social Security Administration is then funded therefrom.

READ

THE

bleep

LAW

Jesus, people, you are acting like a bunch of bleep liberals on this one.  Why?

We have a lawyer or a SS operative or an IRS agent among us in our forum.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 07:40:02 pm
Kindly explain why Social Security/Medicare earnings are capped for taxation purposes, then.

If it was "just another tax" there would be no cap.
We have had far too many Democrat administrations to leave that cash cow standing.

https://www.ssa.gov/history/35act.html#PREAMBLE (https://www.ssa.gov/history/35act.html#PREAMBLE)
and ...



Bullshit.  READ.  THE.  F-UCKING.  LAW.

It is a tax, pure and simple.  Putting a cap on the amount of income subject to the tax does not change the essential characteristic of the imposition as a tax.

READ.  THE.  F-UCKING.  LAW.

And you didn't pay into anything because YOU.  DON'T.  OWN.  ANY.  PROPERTY.  RIGHT.  IN.  SOCIAL. SECURITY.  WELFARE.  BENEFITS.

You can say you paid into a private retirement plan because you have a vested property right, a right that can be levied on, by the way, or subjected to a divorce decree.

SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOT SUBJECT TO LEVY OR ASSIGNMENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T OWN ANYTHING THAT COULD BE LEVIED UPON OR ASSIGNED.



READ.  THE.  F-UCKING.  LAW.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 07:43:39 pm
Here's the law:

IRC sec. 3101:

(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance

In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax equal to 6.2 percent of the wages (as defined in section 3121(a)) received by the individual with respect to employment (as defined in section 3121(b)).


GOT IT?

A tax is imposed on the income of each individual.  A tax that is imposed on income is also known as an income tax.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 03, 2023, 07:44:32 pm
Bullshit.  READ.  THE.  F-UCKING.  LAW.

It is a tax, pure and simple.  Putting a cap on the amount of income subject to the tax does not change the essential characteristic of the imposition as a tax.

READ.  THE.  F-UCKING.  LAW.

And you didn't pay into anything because YOU.  DON'T.  OWN.  ANY.  PROPERTY.  RIGHT.  IN.  SOCIAL. SECURITY.  WELFARE.  BENEFITS.

You can say you paid into a private retirement plan because you have a vested property right, a right that can be levied on, by the way, or subjected to a divorce decree.

SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOT SUBJECT TO LEVY OR ASSIGNMENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T OWN ANYTHING THAT COULD BE LEVIED UPON OR ASSIGNED.



READ.  THE.  F-UCKING.  LAW.
I did. I even provided it.

Quote
Every qualified individual (as defined in section 210) shall be entitled to receive, with respect to the period beginning on the date he attains the age of sixty-five, or on January 1, 1942, whichever is the later, and ending on the date of his death, an old-age benefit (payable as nearly as practicable in equal monthly installments) as follows:

 :shrug:
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 07:51:10 pm
There is a trust fund created, but it is an accounting mechanism and does not give any current or future recipient of social security welfare benefits any vested interest in that fund, and the trust fund itself is funded out of the general treasury.

42 USC sec. 401:

There is hereby created on the books of the Treasury of the United States a trust fund to be known as the “Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund”. The Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund shall consist of the securities held by the Secretary of the Treasury for the Old-Age Reserve Account and the amount standing to the credit of the Old-Age Reserve Account on the books of the Treasury on January 1, 1940, which securities and amount the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized and directed to transfer to the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund, and, in addition, such gifts and bequests as may be made as provided in subsection (i)(1), and such amounts as may be appropriated to, or deposited in, the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund as hereinafter provided. There is hereby appropriated to the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1941, and for each fiscal year thereafter, out of any moneys in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, amounts equivalent to 100 per centum of—


YOU HAVE NO OWNERSHIP INTEREST, VESTED OR OTHERWISE, IN THE GENERAL TREASURY FUNDS THAT ARE SET ASIDE ON THE US GOVERNMENT'S BOOKS TO PAY SOCIAL SECURITY WELFARE BENEFITS.

You can search the relevant provisions of the law - we are supposed to be a nation of laws, aren't we?  That's the bullshit I keep hearing around here, at any rate - and you will not find one provision that grants you a property interest in those funds.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 07:54:45 pm
I did. I even provided it.

 :shrug:

Nope, you just cited to the statute that permits the federal government to make social welfare payments to you - government charity.  And that statute could be changed tomorrow, and your entitlement would disappear into thin air.

YOU HAVE NO VESTED INTEREST THAT CANNOT BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU BY A SIMPLE CONGRESSIONAL ENACTMENT.

The Supreme Court has already ruled on the blatantly obvious, and has - unexpectedly to those who insist on following the law as written - that there is no property right in social security benefits.  Flemming v. Nestor:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemming_v._Nestor
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 07:54:54 pm
Bullshit.  READ.  THE.  F-UCKING.  LAW.

It is a tax, pure and simple.  Putting a cap on the amount of income subject to the tax does not change the essential characteristic of the imposition as a tax.

READ.  THE.  F-UCKING.  LAW.

And you didn't pay into anything because YOU.  DON'T.  OWN.  ANY.  PROPERTY.  RIGHT.  IN.  SOCIAL. SECURITY.  WELFARE.  BENEFITS.

You can say you paid into a private retirement plan because you have a vested property right, a right that can be levied on, by the way, or subjected to a divorce decree.

SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOT SUBJECT TO LEVY OR ASSIGNMENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T OWN ANYTHING THAT COULD BE LEVIED UPON OR ASSIGNED.



READ.  THE.  F-UCKING.  LAW.

Is it truly necessary to curse in big bold letters?  Get a grip!
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: DB on June 03, 2023, 07:56:26 pm
"Kindly explain why Social Security/Medicare earnings are capped for taxation purposes, then."

@Smokin Joe because it provides the illusion that it is something that it isn't. What you "get back" is also capped. A naked pyramid scheme that would put any other entity in prison is not a defendable position. There is no "investment" providing returns that are paid out. The returns are set by law, not economic outcomes.

It only works because younger people in a normally expanding base transfer their tax dollars to the smaller older generations that are collecting it higher up the pyramid.

Have young people stop paying SS and see how long the program can continue for the ones collecting now... If it were in some lockbox or investment those collecting SS would have already paid the cost of what they are collecting through their life of paying into it. That's not the case.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 07:57:22 pm
Is it truly necessary to curse in big bold letters?  Get a grip!

At a certain point, yes, it is.  When supposed conservatives start acting like starry-eyed liberals, and pouting about how - in contradistinction to every other government welfare benefit - that there is something special about social security that makes it "YOUR" money.

It isn't your money, it is nothing more than government-funded charity, that can be yanked at any time by a Congressional act that repeals it.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 07:57:43 pm
"Kindly explain why Social Security/Medicare earnings are capped for taxation purposes, then."

@Smokin Joe because it provides the illusion that it is something that it isn't. What you "get back" is also capped. A naked pyramid scheme that would put any other entity in prison is not a defendable position. There is no "investment" providing returns that are paid out. The returns are set by law, not economic outcomes.

It only works because younger people in a normally expanding base transfer their tax dollars to the smaller older generations that are collecting it higher up the pyramid.

Have young people stop paying SS and see how long the program can continue for the ones collecting now... If it were in some lockbox or investment those collecting SS would have already paid the cost of what they are collecting through their life of paying into it. That's not the case.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 07:59:28 pm
It's truly fascinating how a lie first told by FDR - the consummate liberal/progressive - about a particular government charity benefit - continues to be swallowed, whole cloth, by those who claim to be oh-so conservative.

Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 03, 2023, 08:06:15 pm
It's truly fascinating how a lie first told by FDR - the consummate liberal/progressive - about a particular government charity benefit - continues to be swallowed, whole cloth, by those who claim to be oh-so conservative.

Entrenched beliefs

And those don’t go away easily just because you present the facts. It’s part of being human

Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 08:09:53 pm
At a certain point, yes, it is.  When supposed conservatives start acting like starry-eyed liberals, and pouting about how - in contradistinction to every other government welfare benefit - that there is something special about social security that makes it "YOUR" money.

It isn't your money, it is nothing more than government-funded charity, that can be yanked at any time by a Congressional act that repeals it.

Actually, there are those obviously, who don't share your opinion nor do they agree with the 'laws' unfairly enacted.  Law is law I get that, but government overreach and bureaucracy isn't necessarily acceptable. 

Calls for abolishing the IRS and auditing the FED has been ongoing especially by both Ron Paul and his son Rand, and IMHO with good reason.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Bigun on June 03, 2023, 08:13:53 pm
Actually, there are those obviously, who don't share your opinion nor do they agree with the 'laws' unfairly enacted.  Law is law I get that, but government overreach and bureaucracy isn't necessarily acceptable. 

Calls for abolishing the IRS and auditing the FED has been ongoing especially by both Ron Paul and his son Rand, and IMHO with good reason.

Please add me to that list @libertybele
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: bigheadfred on June 03, 2023, 08:16:08 pm
Entrenched beliefs

And those don’t go away easily just because you present the facts. It’s part of being human

A belief extolled by the government. 
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 08:25:19 pm
Entrenched beliefs

And those don’t go away easily just because you present the facts. It’s part of being human

Fact:  Money is taken out every paycheck and designated to FICA and Medicare.  Where it goes, what is done with the money or what laws are written -- EVERYONE has that money deducted.  Most if given a 'choice' would obviously keep that money.  They are being taxed on their labor period.

Fact:  Social security benefits have been paid out to those who qualify for a certain period at a certain age for decades.  It is mandated that everyone get on to Medicare at age 65.

So again, try to tell millions of people that the money that was arbitrarily taken out of their checks and made to jump onto Medicare don't have a right to that $$$.  Law or no law -- monies were taken out period -- not by choice but by force.

Go ahead, cuss in big bold letters and tell me to read the law.  It makes no difference to my opinion; ABOLISH THE IRS and Audit the Fed!
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 03, 2023, 08:31:58 pm
Fact:  Money is taken out every paycheck and designated to FICA and Medicare.  Where it goes, what is done with the money or what laws are written -- EVERYONE has that money deducted.  Most if given a 'choice' would obviously keep that money.  They are being taxed on their labor period.

Fact:  Social security benefits have been paid out to those who qualify for a certain period at a certain age for decades.  It is mandated that everyone get on to Medicare at age 65.

So again, try to tell millions of people that the money that was arbitrarily taken out of their checks and made to jump onto Medicare don't have a right to that $$$.  Law or no law -- monies were taken out period -- not by choice but by force.

Go ahead, cuss in big bold letters and tell me to read the law.  It makes no difference to my opinion; ABOLISH THE IRS and Audit the Fed!

Lol

I don’t recall me cussing at all

But you’re right. Reforms are going to be difficult because of the misconceptions people have when it comes to both programs. I’m very well aware of the politics when it comes to both programs

But the fact is there is no right you have to that money once taken out of your check. The law and at least two court rulings confirm that
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 03, 2023, 08:35:22 pm
At a certain point, yes, it is.  When supposed conservatives start acting like starry-eyed liberals, and pouting about how - in contradistinction to every other government welfare benefit - that there is something special about social security that makes it "YOUR" money.

It isn't your money, it is nothing more than government-funded charity, that can be yanked at any time by a Congressional act that repeals it.
I quoted the law.
As originally written, which conveys intent as sold to the entire country.
We will disagree.

Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 08:35:55 pm
Fact:  Money is taken out every paycheck and designated to FICA and Medicare.  Where it goes, what is done with the money or what laws are written -- EVERYONE has that money deducted.  Most if given a 'choice' would obviously keep that money.  They are being taxed on their labor period.

Fact:  Social security benefits have been paid out to those who qualify for a certain period at a certain age for decades.  It is mandated that everyone get on to Medicare at age 65.

So again, try to tell millions of people that the money that was arbitrarily taken out of their checks and made to jump onto Medicare don't have a right to that $$$.  Law or no law -- monies were taken out period -- not by choice but by force.

Go ahead, cuss in big bold letters and tell me to read the law.  It makes no difference to my opinion; ABOLISH THE IRS and Audit the Fed!

My GOD!!!!

The regular income tax is also taken out of your paycheck - each and every paycheck - does that mean you still have a vested ownership interest in that money?  No, it does not.

Why are you so hellbent on believing liberal lies about social security?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 03, 2023, 08:40:42 pm
My GOD!!!!

The regular income tax is also taken out of your paycheck - each and every paycheck - does that mean you still have a vested ownership interest in that money?  No, it does not.

Why are you so hellbent on believing liberal lies about social security?
See the law, post 63, this thread. That's why.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 08:41:59 pm
Lol

I don’t recall me cussing at all

But you’re right. Reforms are going to be difficult because of the misconceptions people have when it comes to both programs. I’m very well aware of the politics when it comes to both programs

But the fact is there is no right you have to that money once taken out of your check. The law and at least two court rulings confirm that

I didn't mean to imply that you were cussing.

No the fact of the matter is quite plain, simple and undisputable that paycheck stubs clearly show $$ taken out for FICA and Medicare.  We should therefore ALL demand that the FED be audited and the IRS abolished, for those reasons. That simple.

I think you would be hard pressed to find many who would voluntarily hand over that money given a choice.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2023, 08:43:42 pm
See the law, post 63, this thread. That's why.

:mauslaff:

You still haven't shown me a single statute that gives you a vested property interest in the funds in the U.S. treasury that derived from the social security income tax imposed on you, nor have you shown a single statute that gives you a property right to be paid social security welfare benefits that cannot be taken away with a simple Congressional act.

By contrast, if you do have a property interest in something, that interest generally cannot be taken away without due compensation.

So, no, you haven't shown jack-shit.  All you have shown is that you, too, are willing to throw your conservative principles overboard for the sake of a liberal/progressive lie that flatters you.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 08:45:20 pm
My GOD!!!!

The regular income tax is also taken out of your paycheck - each and every paycheck - does that mean you still have a vested ownership interest in that money?  No, it does not.

Why are you so hellbent on believing liberal lies about social security?

That's just like saying that you agree to pay your neighbor $150 for mowing your lawn and you keep $50 of that money because you promise later on down the road when he becomes of retirement age, he'll get some of that money back.  Get real.

Why are you so hellbent on believing that the gov't has a right to some of the money that you've earned??

Close to taxation without representation IMHO.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: LMAO on June 03, 2023, 08:46:13 pm


I think you would be hard pressed to find many who would voluntarily hand over that money given a choice.

Absolutely

That’s why paying taxes in general is not voluntary
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 08:47:54 pm
:mauslaff:

You still haven't shown me a single statute that gives you a vested property interest in the funds in the U.S. treasury that derived from the social security income tax imposed on you, nor have you shown a single statute that gives you a property right to be paid social security welfare benefits that cannot be taken away with a simple Congressional act.

By contrast, if you do have a property interest in something, that interest generally cannot be taken away without due compensation.

So, no, you haven't shown jack-shit.  All you have shown is that you, too, are willing to throw your conservative principles overboard for the sake of a liberal/progressive lie that flatters you.

A liberal progressive lie --- you got that one right, but why as a conservative are you shoving it down my throat to get me to accept the statutes and laws surrounding them that are purely b.s.?
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 08:53:16 pm
Former Rep. Ron Paul of Texas called the recent IRS fiasco troubling — but writes that the only way Congress can protect the freedoms of Americans from a long pattern of suspected IRS abuse is to “shutter the doors” of the agency “once and for all.”

The longtime GOP congressman writes that IRS agents in the 1930s were essentially “hit squads” against opponents of the New Deal, and that allegations of IRS abuse spanned the administrations of Presidents Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton and George W. Bush.

“The bipartisan tradition of using the IRS as a tool to harass political opponents suggests that the problem is deeper than just a few ‘rogue’ IRS agents — or even corruption within one, two, three or many administrations,” Dr. Paul writes in his weekly column, “Texas Straight Talk. “Instead, the problem [lies] in the extraordinary power the tax system grants the IRS.”

The libertarian and tea party hero goes on to argue that the power of the IRS can only be countered with a complete overhaul to the country’s tax system.

“The federal government will get along just fine without its immoral claim on the fruits of our labor, particularly if the elimination of federal income taxes are accompanied by serious reduction in all areas of spending, starting with the military spending beloved by so many who claim to be opponents of high taxes and big government,” he writes. “While it is important for Congress to investigate the most recent scandal and ensure all involved are held accountable, we cannot pretend that the problem is a few bad actors. The very purpose of the IRS is to transfer wealth from one group to another while violating our liberties in the process, thus the only way Congress can protect our freedoms is to repeal the income tax and shutter the doors of the IRS once and for all.”


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/20/ron-paul-fix-irs-shutting-it-once-and-all/
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Bigun on June 03, 2023, 09:45:04 pm
Quote
Former Rep. Ron Paul of Texas called the recent IRS fiasco troubling — but writes that the only way Congress can protect the freedoms of Americans from a long pattern of suspected IRS abuse is to “shutter the doors” of the agency “once and for all.”

:yowsa: And the only way to do that is to get rid of the Marxist income tax.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 09:50:11 pm
:yowsa: And the only way to do that is to get rid of the Marxist income tax.

Definitely not a very popular subject with most members of Congress!
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Fishrrman on June 03, 2023, 10:35:22 pm
LMAO wrote:
"Show me were in the SS law that says you’re entitled to get back what you put in..."

I'm offering a "personal experience" post for your edification.

I stopped paying into Social Security in 1979 -- 43 years ago. Not one cent into SS since then. Every year I get a statement (I'll reckon you get one too), with almost nothing on it but "zeros".

Instead, I paid into Railroad Retirement -- which taxes the railroad employee at a significantly HIGHER RATE than people pay into SS.

Over my working career, I paid a little less than $67,000 in taxes to RR retirement.
I retired in 2012 (just having turned 62) and have been collecting since.

Since my retirement date, I've been paid in benefits nearly 8x the amount of my total contributions in my career. You do the math.

I'm 73. So... if I'm able to live a decade more, I'll get 'em for nearly TWICE that amount.

There is NO WAY that I could have made "private investments" under a "privatized" system that would equal this. I simply didn't have the investment savvy, and I doubt "the markets" would have provided in any case.

So... you'll get no complaints from me that the current retirement system is rigged against the worker. It's done well by me.

And most railroad retirees get MORE THAN I do.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: DB on June 03, 2023, 11:12:49 pm
I've paid the maximum limit into SS for about 38 years. Something less than maximum for the prior 8 years. With a good number of those years being self employed meaning I paid the full amount and not split between me and the employer. Even when not "self employed" the vast majority of those years it was paid by my own business which was still me. Just last year was over $18k in social security taxes paid. So I've paid a small fortune into SS over the last 46 years.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: libertybele on June 03, 2023, 11:24:05 pm
I've paid the maximum limit into SS for about 38 years. Something less than maximum for the prior 8 years. With a good number of those years being self employed meaning I paid the full amount and not split between me and the employer. Even when not "self employed" the vast majority of those years it was paid by my own business which was still me. Just last year was over $18k in social security taxes paid. So I've paid a small fortune into SS over the last 46 years.

 **nononono*
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Bigun on June 03, 2023, 11:55:53 pm
@Fishrrman

Using the info you provided, you were paying approximately $175 per month into RR retirement for 32 years.

I'm not about to do the math on a Saturday afternoon, but will assure you that if you had done nothing more than deposited that $175 each month is a passbook savings account for 32 years and never touched it until you retired you could be making current withdrawals many times what you are currently getting and still be able to leave ALL of your savings to whomever you like when you die.
Title: Re: Social Security and Medicare Are Ticking Time Bombs
Post by: Hoodat on June 04, 2023, 03:51:33 am
For $175/month (which is less money than they take in Social Security taxes from someone making $14,500 per year), at 5% after 32 years, that person would have over $165K.  The interest alone on that would pay $689/month without dipping into the principle.

Consider this railroad job pays $26K.  If you add to it all the Social Security taxes paid over 32 years at 5%, that $165K would grow to $456K which would generate $1900/month without touching the principle.  If they chose to draw down the principle, they could collect $2450 per month for the next 30 years.  How many railroad workers making $26K per year would be collecting $2450 per month in social security payments, not to mention being able to hand the remainder to relatives when they die?