The Briefing Room
General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => Computers => Topic started by: Oceander on September 18, 2016, 02:17:30 pm
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Do you know who really built your computer? Most of us own computers sold by HP, Acer, Asus, Lenovo, Dell, Sony, and the like. They may sell them, and they may brand them, but they didn't build everything they sell.
Some of the brand names do build (assemble) their own systems, but others buy systems that are in fact built by other companies. Those other companies are known as the original design manufacturers, or ODMs.
From Wikipedia:
Original Design Manufacturer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_design_manufacturer)
An original design manufacturer (ODM) is a company that designs and manufactures a product as specified and eventually rebranded by another firm for sale. Such companies allow the firm that owns or licenses the brand to produce products (either as a supplement or solely) without having to engage in the organization or running of a factory. ODMs have grown in size in recent years and as of 2015 many have the scale to handle production for in-house the products that are branded by the buying firm. This is in contrast to a contract manufacturer (CM).
This model is especially used in international trade, where a local ODM is used to produce goods for a foreign company that sees some advantage in the transaction, such as low labor-inputs, transport links or proximity to markets. Innovative and/or patented technologies developed/owned by the ODM are another cause for this product distribution model. ODM models are also used where local ownership-laws possibly prohibit direct ownership of assets by foreigners, allowing a local firm to produce for a brand company - either for the domestic market or for export.
While the brand names are well-known, the actual manufacturers are not. Here is a list (courtesy of Wikipedia) of the major ODMs and the brands the manufacture for:
The vast majority of laptops on the market (94% in 2011) are manufactured by a small handful of Taiwan-based Original Design Manufacturers (ODM), although their production bases are located mostly in mainland China.
Major relationships include:
- Quanta sells to (among others) HP, Lenovo, Apple, Acer, Toshiba, Dell, Sony, Fujitsu and NEC
- Compal sells to (among others) Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo and HP/Compaq
- Wistron (former manufacturing & design division of Acer) sells to Dell, Acer, Lenovo and HP
- Inventec sells to Toshiba, HP, Dell and Lenovo
- Pegatron sells to Asus, Toshiba, Apple, Dell and Acer
- Foxconn sells to Asus, Dell, HP and Apple
- Flextronics (former Arima Computer Corporation notebook division) sells to HP
- Clevo
Now for the fun part: some of these ODMs also sell under their own name, or under the names of lesser known brands. They sell the same computers they manufacture for the big brand names, they just come in different, usually less beautiful, cases. They also sell for less; after all, with a brand name you're not just paying for the hardware, you're paying for the brand name. Of course you're also paying for a supposedly higher grade of customer support, but - as anyone who has called customer support can attest - the promise of support is often more illusory than not. You also tend to get a much higher degree of customization than you get with the big brand names.
You won't find these systems in places like Bestbuy, but you can find plenty of smaller resellers who do. A good place to get an introduction to what's out there is a forum I used to frequent quite often: notebookreview.com (http://forum.notebookreview.com)
These systems aren't for the faint of heart, but for those who don't mind a little DIY when it comes to their computers, you can get systems that you cannot find elsewhere.
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I build my own desktops from the ground up , laptops I buy broken ones off ebay and fix them.
both ways are cheaper than store bought.
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I build my own desktops from the ground up , laptops I buy broken ones off ebay and fix them.
both ways are cheaper than store bought.
Certainly. But for those of us who don't have your talents, the next best will have to do.
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Certainly. But for those of us who don't have your talents, the next best will have to do.
I think most products are the same way. Appliances, etc. I was wandering through walmart one day and they had a 28" Visio TV for $110. I added a HP elite 8000 for $120 and that is my bedroom computer. It works well enough to conjure demons with the fractal image generator I downloaded.
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I think most products are the same way. Appliances, etc. I was wandering through walmart one day and they had a 28" Visio TV for $110. I added a HP elite 8000 for $120 and that is my bedroom computer. It works well enough to conjure demons with the fractal image generator I downloaded.
have fun life is short. :beer:
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have fun life is short. :beer:
I agree.
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I know who built my computer. Mervin Poindexter from Freemont CA....
(http://dailyupperdecker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Sad-Nerd1.jpg)
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I know who built my computer. Mervin Poindexter from Freemont CA....
(http://dailyupperdecker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Sad-Nerd1.jpg)
If Frank Cannon had a son.
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If Frank Cannon had a son.
With Rosie O'donnel.
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With Rosie O'donnel.
Who is the father?
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My last computer (other than a netbook) that I didn't build was an AT&T UnixPC, probably 20 years ago. Other than that, I've advocated that people should always look at ODMs for laptops before buying them from major brands. You can often get exactly the same hardware for significantly less.
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I still have my IBM PC-1 and Dell 386-20 MHz (with i387 math coprocessor), and they were made in the US. I suppose it is even likely the CPU die were made here then too. The Dell had 16 MB of memory in 1987 - if I remember correctly that memory upgrade cost something like $5k...
I also have all my old computers from the IBM PC-1 on... All of them still worked when they were put on the shelf... Some day I'd like to fire them up again... It will be like going on an Archaeological dig...
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I still have my IBM PC-1 and Dell 386-20 MHz (with i387 math coprocessor), and they were made in the US. I suppose it is even likely the CPU die were made here then too. The Dell had 16 MB of memory in 1987 - if I remember correctly that memory upgrade cost something like $5k...
I also have all my old computers from the IBM PC-1 on... All of them still worked when they were put on the shelf... Some day I'd like to fire them up again... It will be like going on an Archaeological dig...
A dinosaur hunt. Didn't Trump's sons shoot a triceratops recently?
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have fun life is short. :beer:
:beer:
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My last computer (other than a netbook) that I didn't build was an AT&T UnixPC, probably 20 years ago. Other than that, I've advocated that people should always look at ODMs for laptops before buying them from major brands. You can often get exactly the same hardware for significantly less.
I think you can also get a better range of options on the hardware so you can customize the system more to your liking.
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It works well enough to conjure demons with the fractal image generator I downloaded.
@bigheadfred
I'm curious about specifics here.
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@bigheadfred
I'm curious about specifics here.
I downloaded Apophysis 7x. Fractals interest me. I was dinking around and came up with this.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/16t4j4.jpg)
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I downloaded Apophysis 7x. Fractals interest me. I was dinking around and came up with this.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/16t4j4.jpg)
Great! I'll have to check it out. I used to love PLAYING with Fractint http://www.fractint.org
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I build my own desktops from the ground up , laptops I buy broken ones off ebay and fix them.
both ways are cheaper than store bought.
Do the same..
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Just to chime in (johnny come lately), I haven't built any of my own systems, but I have taken several notebooks apart and (successfully) put them back together, usually to replace the internal hard drive, but twice to replace a bad motherboard. I've never tried to reseat a cpu yet, but at some point I may get the gumption up to build a custom system from the cpu on up.
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Same with lots of products.
When I worked for Astrocap making truck caps and lids we also slapped Leer logos on some of them.
When I worked in plastics my department's primary job was for Cadillac but I occasionally worked on parts for Mercedes, Toyota, Ford, Jeep etc. In the molding department their primary job was for Ford F150.
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Just to chime in (johnny come lately), I haven't built any of my own systems, but I have taken several notebooks apart and (successfully) put them back together, usually to replace the internal hard drive, but twice to replace a bad motherboard. I've never tried to reseat a cpu yet, but at some point I may get the gumption up to build a custom system from the cpu on up.
Building a desktop, I can handle. But putting together a puzzle known as a notebook? Forget it!
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Certainly. But for those of us who don't have your talents, the next best will have to do.
Repairing laptops is tricky, but building a desktop is simple. For those that don't know you can typically build a computer for half the price you would have paid off the shelf. There are endless resources out there to learn how. You can find step by step guides. Once you get the hang of it you will feel silly for getting ripped off on every computer you've ever owned.
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Building a desktop, I can handle. But putting together a puzzle known as a notebook? Forget it!
yes desk top way easier than a laptop.
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yes desk top way easier than a laptop.
@ Dexter @Suppressed @montanajoe
I am going to look into it. My grandson is continually kicking me off mine to play games. Maybe it is a project we can do together. I have an old pavilion. Anybody got directions to a website or such to begin with? Be nice to do a gamer type build.
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@ Dexter @Suppressed @montanajoe
I am going to look into it. My grandson is continually kicking me off mine to play games. Maybe it is a project we can do together. I have an old pavilion. Anybody got directions to a website or such to begin with? Be nice to do a gamer type build.
@bigheadfred
Some great websites that I like...
http://logicalincrements.com (Scroll down on home page to see the big table)
This site shows various components at various price ranges (from Destitute to Monstrous ^-^), allowing you to choose components that don't bottleneck your system. You want components that are all about the same range, so you can choose a range category and select components from that row. (For example, you might choose a great CPU, but if you don't give it matching RAM, you've wasted money...)
http://pcpartpicker.com
This website allows you to create a build by selecting parts and it will tally up the costs. There are also builds that people have put together (view the build guides), and if you see one you like, you have a shopping list right there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/
Be sure to read the rules first, but you can ask questions here, and you can even upload your build from pcpartpicker.com and ask for advice. Helpful people will suggest ways to improve the build to meet your needs, save you money, etc.
As for actually building the PC, you can just Google "how to build a pc" or similar, and look through videos and pages. There are many.
I hope this helps!
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@bigheadfred
Some great websites that I like...
http://logicalincrements.com (Scroll down on home page to see the big table)
This site shows various components at various price ranges (from Destitute to Monstrous ^-^), allowing you to choose components that don't bottleneck your system. You want components that are all about the same range, so you can choose a range category and select components from that row. (For example, you might choose a great CPU, but if you don't give it matching RAM, you've wasted money...)
http://pcpartpicker.com
This website allows you to create a build by selecting parts and it will tally up the costs. There are also builds that people have put together (view the build guides), and if you see one you like, you have a shopping list right there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/
Be sure to read the rules first, but you can ask questions here, and you can even upload your build from pcpartpicker.com and ask for advice. Helpful people will suggest ways to improve the build to meet your needs, save you money, etc.
As for actually building the PC, you can just Google "how to build a pc" or similar, and look through videos and pages. There are many.
I hope this helps!
Bookmark. Thank you very much.
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I build my own desktops from the ground up , laptops I buy broken ones off ebay and fix them.
both ways are cheaper than store bought.
I agree. I told my wife that our kids should all go through the CompTIA A+ course. For no reason other than building their own computer/laptop. I find that depending on the build, it can save $1,000 or more from what is being sold at the store. Since the kids will likely go through a computer about once every 8 years or so, it will save them quite a bit of money. I see it as being similar to learning basic car repair back in the 50's. Not everyone was going to be a grease monkey but they could at least avoid a few repair bills by keeping their car working.
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@ Dexter @Suppressed @montanajoe
I am going to look into it. My grandson is continually kicking me off mine to play games. Maybe it is a project we can do together. I have an old pavilion. Anybody got directions to a website or such to begin with? Be nice to do a gamer type build.
Depending on the Pavilion, it might be a good exercise to first upgrade the existing system.
If you want to go high end, you will likely need to replace the triad - Motherboard, CPU, power supply
Superfast multi core cpus can run into the thousands of $$. You really don't need that much power for gaming. Remember, Motherboard has to fit the case, CPU has to fit the motherboard, PS has to have enough watts to run the CPU and hardware, Motherboard slots need to support the CORRECT memory. And lastly, get a higher end graphics card that fits into the slots on your motherboard.
CompTIA A+ study book is a good place to start learning. CompTIA A+ Certification All-in-One Exam Guide, Ninth Edition (Exams 220-901 & 220-902) - about $35
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Bookmark. Thank you very much.
@bigheadfred
Agree all great sources, I also like Newegg.
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@bigheadfred
Agree all great sources, I also like Newegg.
I shop there.
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@bigheadfred
Agree all great sources, I also like Newegg.
@montanajoe @bigheadfred @Taxcontrol
pcpartpicker.com (in my list) includes Newegg as one of the sites it checks for the lowest price on each component. While they aren't as good as they used to be, I still use them fairly often.
I've been told this book is the gold standard, but I don't have it myself: https://www.amazon.com/Upgrading-Repairing-22nd-Scott-Mueller/dp/0789756102
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Depending on the Pavilion, it might be a good exercise to first upgrade the existing system.
If you want to go high end, you will likely need to replace the triad - Motherboard, CPU, power supply
Superfast multi core cpus can run into the thousands of $$. You really don't need that much power for gaming. Remember, Motherboard has to fit the case, CPU has to fit the motherboard, PS has to have enough watts to run the CPU and hardware, Motherboard slots need to support the CORRECT memory. And lastly, get a higher end graphics card that fits into the slots on your motherboard.
CompTIA A+ study book is a good place to start learning. CompTIA A+ Certification All-in-One Exam Guide, Ninth Edition (Exams 220-901 & 220-902) - about $35
Thanks for the info.
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Depending on the Pavilion, it might be a good exercise to first upgrade the existing system.
If you want to go high end, you will likely need to replace the triad - Motherboard, CPU, power supply
Superfast multi core cpus can run into the thousands of $$. You really don't need that much power for gaming. Remember, Motherboard has to fit the case, CPU has to fit the motherboard, PS has to have enough watts to run the CPU and hardware, Motherboard slots need to support the CORRECT memory. And lastly, get a higher end graphics card that fits into the slots on your motherboard.
CompTIA A+ study book is a good place to start learning. CompTIA A+ Certification All-in-One Exam Guide, Ninth Edition (Exams 220-901 & 220-902) - about $35
The GPU is generally the crucial component for a gaming system. A weak GPU will bottleneck the entire system.
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The GPU is generally the crucial component for a gaming system. A weak GPU will bottleneck the entire system.
And for those really serious about their gaming, the frame rate is the most important factor. Connecting a high performance GPU to a 60 Hz refresh rate LCD gets you little. The LCD response time and refresh rate is very important. In the CRT days you could get refresh rates of over 240 Hz and virtually no processing delay in the monitor (it was analog). LCDs are still catching up on that front.
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Thanks for the info.
@bigheadfred
I just came across this great video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIF43-0mDk4&t=1s
(If it doesn't start at the beginning, manually move the slider back and it will give you the menu of topics.)
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I have some visibility into how Microsoft hardware products are made, and I have friends at other companies that sell hardware. MOST American hardware companies have Chinese or Taiwanese firms like this do the manufacturing. For example, Foxconn makes iPhones. It is very similar to the semiconductor industry where the fabrication machinery is so expensive that it just does not make sense for every company to have their own fab.
But that said, there is huge variability in the quality of the products made for different vendors by the same manufacturing/assembly firm. The really good ones have an engineering process that involves the vendor's engineers working closely with the manufacturer, including iterating on the manufacturing process, manufacturing artifacts, test jigs, QC process, etc. I am continually amazed at how much effort it takes to take something from PCB design to a working manufacturing process with reasonable yields.
So my point is, you can't draw any conclusions about the quality of the product based on which of these firms manufactured it. It may be good; it may be crap. Pay more attention to the vendor, their history, and reviews of the specific product you are buying.
I agree. I think one of the points with the issue is how much the brand name you're paying for is worth. For example, I would assume that a brand company that wishes to keep a reputation for good quality will require its ODMs to use greater quality control, which in turn benefits the consumer. On the other hand, particularly for lower end systems, the brand company may not care that much. I've seen that with HP, having bought a number of their systems: the $1,000 plus systems tend to have good quality; the $500 systems not so much.
Then, where the ODM also sells under its own name, you need a different way of gauging the degree of quality control it puts into those products. For that word of mouth and good relations with one of the resellers who buy these systems (sometimes to rebrand, sometimes not) is imperative. Many years ago I was an avid member of the forums on notebookreview.com and there were a couple of the established resellers who really knew their sh*t. Of course, the flip side is that post-purchase technical support and warranty service could be dodgy. You need to have some DIY ability with those systems.
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Bookmark.
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@Suppressed , yes it is a good vid, BUT, those are some pretty big-dog boxen they are constructing... gamer-level stuff... @bigheadfred should know that these represent high-end product, and there are cheaper, less expensive means...
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Who is the father?
I think the question the tabloids would be asking is "Whose chest hair did he get?"
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Repairing laptops is tricky, but building a desktop is simple. For those that don't know you can typically build a computer for half the price you would have paid off the shelf. There are endless resources out there to learn how. You can find step by step guides. Once you get the hang of it you will feel silly for getting ripped off on every computer you've ever owned.
I'm with you. Hubby, children and I build our own desktops. I purely hate working on laptops and won't do it even for clients. For business purposes, I believe you buy the best machine you can from the vendor with the biggest footprint in your area and spend a little extra for the best warranty they offer. Computer down time costs small businesses way more than just the cash out lays, so it makes sense to minimize them.
Just FYI. You get a lot better customer support if you purchase from vendors as a business as opposed to retail and if you buy the good warranties. Different phone numbers, different class of support personnel. Buy directly from the vendor because Best Buy is not going to provide you with a 5 year 24/7 next business day warranty. You'll only get that from the vendor.
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I'm with you. Hubby, children and I build our own desktops. I purely hate working on laptops and won't do it even for clients. For business purposes, I believe you buy the best machine you can from the vendor with the biggest footprint in your area and spend a little extra for the best warranty they offer. Computer down time costs small businesses way more than just the cash out lays, so it makes sense to minimize them.
Just FYI. You get a lot better customer support if you purchase from vendors as a business as opposed to retail and if you buy the good warranties. Different phone numbers, different class of support personnel. Buy directly from the vendor because Best Buy is not going to provide you with a 5 year 24/7 next business day warranty. You'll only get that from the vendor.
I must be a glutton for punishment, then, because I've worked on fixing three laptops. My first was an old Sony that I took apart so many times I could have swapped out the hard drive and the wireless card with my eyes closed. It is a pain, I'll give you that.
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I must be a glutton for punishment, then, because I've worked on fixing three laptops. My first was an old Sony that I took apart so many times I could have swapped out the hard drive and the wireless card with my eyes closed. It is a pain, I'll give you that.
LOL. You ARE a glutton for punishment. Our business is providing IT services for small and medium businesses. My time costs our clients more than a depot repair for a laptop. I might swap memory or a hard drive, but I take a look at it first to determine the time element. One of the reasons, I insist on good warranties. Hardware is not something you should have to worry sbout.
Hubby and son are constantly swapping out components on the desktops. My laptop is 7 years old and still perfectly functional. I won't let them touch it. When I need a new laptop, I'll get one. Until then they should not touch!
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LOL. You ARE a glutton for punishment. Our business is providing IT services for small and medium businesses. My time costs our clients more than a depot repair for a laptop. I might swap memory or a hard drive, but I take a look at it first to determine the time element. One of the reasons, I insist on good warranties. Hardware is not something you should have to worry sbout.
Hubby and son are constantly swapping out components on the desktops. My laptop is 7 years old and still perfectly functional. I won't let them touch it. When I need a new laptop, I'll get one. Until then they should not touch!
It was for my own systems. I would not have paid somebody to fix those systems - in fact, the first time I cracked open my old Sony was to replace the hard drive - and so it makes eminent good sense that a business would not try to make money doing it.
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Who is the father?
Ellen deGeneris
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Replacing the Motherboard usually means replacing the RAM. And a new Windows install. Just build a machine from the ground up and toss the old one.
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Replacing the Motherboard usually means replacing the RAM. And a new Windows install. Just build a machine from the ground up and toss the old one.
Did a motherboard swap on two systems that involved moving the CPU from the old to the new, one on a desktop and the other on a laptop.
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When I need a new laptop, I'll get one. Until then they should not touch!
Almost right - I fix em for a living too... When I shop laptops for myself or my clients, I am looking for bang-for-buck... Usually worrying about processor more than any other thing... then over time, jack it up with a hdd, more ram... Also it is generally true that a laptop can benefit from a wireless card swap, once in it's life...
The one I am on now is about at it's usable end - It was cheap in it's day - around $450 on black friday sale... since then it has gone through 2 hdd replacements - the first to give me more room over the small one it came with, the second to convert it to SSD... It has had two replacement wireless NICs - one replaced the damaged original 'N', the second to upgrade to ac. And I have jacked the ram to it's ceiling. It's also been disassembled twice, down to the CPU cooler for a blow-out, and had numerous replacement keyboards (I am THE keyboard murderer of all time), and maybe a glidepad or two.
That sounds like a lot of service, but really, with the exception of the tear-downs to blow it out, the rest is easy access through panels or removal of a piece or two...
As a rule, I can service a laptop just as easily as a desktop - hardware R&R is doable to a point. It is rare to do major surgery on one, just simply because the numbers don't add up - replacing a MB is exceedingly rare - the cost of the part, plus all the time necessary to put it in will usually exceed the value of the machine. However, on a top-flight laptop, sometimes even that is cheaper than machine replacement...
So I would say panel-accessible parts are common replacements. Generally, folks will suffer a hdd replacement rather than buy a new machine... Keyboard replacement is common and usually cheap. But if you've got to go scuba-diving in there, the price of disassembly/assembly along with the price of the part, is generally prohibitive.
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Just FYI. You get a lot better customer support if you purchase from vendors as a business as opposed to retail and if you buy the good warranties. Different phone numbers, different class of support personnel. Buy directly from the vendor because Best Buy is not going to provide you with a 5 year 24/7 next business day warranty. You'll only get that from the vendor.
I found that out when my former employer had a deal where employees could get a discount buying Dells via the business side of their sales. The options were more limited (no big gaming rigs and things), but the customer service was amazing compared to their home sales.
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I just came across this great video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIF43-0mDk4&t=1s
@Suppressed , yes it is a good vid, BUT, those are some pretty big-dog boxen they are constructing... gamer-level stuff... @bigheadfred should know that these represent high-end product, and there are cheaper, less expensive means...
Yes, good point. But I meant it more to illustrate how to assemble components.
Still, most users won't need liquid cooling and the like.
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@Suppressed , yes it is a good vid, BUT, those are some pretty big-dog boxen they are constructing... gamer-level stuff... @bigheadfred should know that these represent high-end product, and there are cheaper, less expensive means...
Yes, good point. But I meant it more to illustrate how to assemble components.
Still, most users won't need liquid cooling and the like.
I prefer liquid cooling in the hottest weather.
Thanks for the insight/info. @roamer_1
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Thanks for the insight/info.
Just start picking up old boxes from your neighbors or from garage sales... If they have a Vista, Win7, or Win10 key on them, they're worth parting out at the least... And in my experience, most can be resurrected easily - Normally just a virus infection, or a toasted hard drive...
It'll give you practice and a little depth... And maybe some money, while you learn.
When you get ready to build one, start a thread for it in tech... I'm sure folks will be happy to help you out...