The Briefing Room
General Category => Health/Education => Topic started by: bigheadfred on November 24, 2016, 01:44:30 am
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@Smokin Joe @verga @geronl
I am a product of public education. Growing up in small town America has/had its advantages. I graduated from high school in 1979. With a huge academic scholarship. I had some fantastic teachers. I had some lame asses. Those mostly were coaches pretending to be teachers. Like the wrestling coach/Biology I & II teacher. He hated my guts. Acing every test plus the extra credit questions made him angry.
Hats off to my sophomore English teacher. Top notch. It was she that taught me how to mangulate the language with exemplipetal force.
And my Calculus prof in college. He told us he didn't care if we learned calculus. He told us he was trying to teach us how to THINK.
Now it is yours all turn. Edumacate me.
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@Smokin Joe @verga @geronl
I am a product of public education. Growing up in small town America has/had its advantages. I graduated from high school in 1979. With a huge academic scholarship. I had some fantastic teachers. I had some lame asses. Those mostly were coaches pretending to be teachers. Like the wrestling coach/Biology I & II teacher. He hated my guts. Acing every test plus the extra credit questions made him angry.
Hats off to my sophomore English teacher. Top notch. It was she that taught me how to mangulate the language with exemplipetal force.
And my Calculus prof in college. He told us he didn't care if we learned calculus. He told us he was trying to teach us how to THINK.
Now it is yours all turn. Edumacate me.
I flunked kindergarten 8888crybaby
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I flunked kindergarten 8888crybaby
The school year barely started and you're done? I guess you'll have to eat your lunch all by yourself.
Which reminds me of this guy I used to work with. Every day at noon he would look in his lunchbox and bitch, "Peanut butter and jelly again". I asked him one day why he didn't have his wife make him something else? He said "My wife? I make my own lunch...".
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I teach ELA and social studies in an urban high school. It's not easy, but I've come to look at it as my ministry. My kids attend our local private Catholic school and I get crap from both sides. I don't care! I'm staying in the public system because I work with "teachers" who literally sit on their butts and do nothing but collect pay checks. I stick around for the students that want to learn and the students that don't know they want to learn. It's frustrating, heartbreaking, and rewarding at the same time. I work from within to make a mockery of the union, our progressive discipline policy, and Ohio's state mandated cooperative learning groups. Pray for conservative public school teachers. We're fighting the good fight even though we're surrounded on all sides.
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I flunked kindergarten 8888crybaby
Trump voter? :silly: 22222frying pan :silly:
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Trump voter? :silly: 22222frying pan :silly:
Hardly :silly:
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Hardly :silly:
I know CC, I just couldn't resist! I've been prepping all day for the next two days and now that the kiddos are tucked in, I might be nipping at a cheep bottle of red :beer:
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I teach ELA and social studies in an urban high school. It's not easy, but I've come to look at it as my ministry. ..
My hat's off to you, gwag. :patriot:
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My hat's off to you, gwag. :patriot:
888high58888
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@Smokin Joe @verga @geronl
I am a product of public education. Growing up in small town America has/had its advantages. I graduated from high school in 1979. With a huge academic scholarship. I had some fantastic teachers. I had some lame asses. Those mostly were coaches pretending to be teachers. Like the wrestling coach/Biology I & II teacher. He hated my guts. Acing every test plus the extra credit questions made him angry.
Hats off to my sophomore English teacher. Top notch. It was she that taught me how to mangulate the language with exemplipetal force.
And my Calculus prof in college. He told us he didn't care if we learned calculus. He told us he was trying to teach us how to THINK.
Now it is yours all turn. Edumacate me.
I am also a public school product albeit LONG before you (1966, Went to my 50 year reunion this year) and from what I can see public schools today bear very little resemblance to what they were when I was in them.
BTW: I absolutely HATED diagraming sentences and it probably shows!
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I teach ELA and social studies in an urban high school. It's not easy, but I've come to look at it as my ministry. My kids attend our local private Catholic school and I get crap from both sides. I don't care! I'm staying in the public system because I work with "teachers" who literally sit on their butts and do nothing but collect pay checks. I stick around for the students that want to learn and the students that don't know they want to learn. It's frustrating, heartbreaking, and rewarding at the same time. I work from within to make a mockery of the union, our progressive discipline policy, and Ohio's state mandated cooperative learning groups. Pray for conservative public school teachers. We're fighting the good fight even though we're surrounded on all sides.
I salute you! :patriot:
We need many more just like you!
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I teach ELA and social studies in an urban high school. It's not easy, but I've come to look at it as my ministry. My kids attend our local private Catholic school and I get crap from both sides. I don't care! I'm staying in the public system because I work with "teachers" who literally sit on their butts and do nothing but collect pay checks. I stick around for the students that want to learn and the students that don't know they want to learn. It's frustrating, heartbreaking, and rewarding at the same time. I work from within to make a mockery of the union, our progressive discipline policy, and Ohio's state mandated cooperative learning groups. Pray for conservative public school teachers. We're fighting the good fight even though we're surrounded on all sides.
I work with people who are only there to collect a paycheck. My craft is my art and my art is my craft. It is very frustrating trying to teach people who don't want to learn. My boss says it may be a language barrier sometimes. Bullllsh... We do work in the Jackson Hole market. The boss marched a new customer/contractor back yesterday to introduce me to him. The guy has seen my work and came to where he could get it.
The finisher/painter showed up this morning and asked me what I was so POed about. He says you are the only one here. Fixing this messed up crap from yesterday...
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Yes, I'm a product of public ed too and an ex-teacher. I'm not very complimentary of the process overall. I had and worked with some very good, very dedicated teachers. They are not the majority, but then above average is never the majority.
I really feel like I educated myself, with a few pushes and prods from the occasional good teacher. School doesn't really accommodate kids on either end of the Bell curve. Modified: that sounds wrong. "Normal", non-quirky kids do ok. Others...not so much.
When teaching, keeping up with the bureaucracy made actual teaching a secondary priority. The kids always needed more than I could give them.
And, that's my 10 cents worth.
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I work with people who are only there to collect a paycheck. My craft is my art and my art is my craft. It is very frustrating trying to teach people who don't want to learn. My boss says it may be a language barrier sometimes. Bullllsh... We do work in the Jackson Hole market. The boss marched a new customer/contractor back yesterday to introduce me to him. The guy has seen my work and came to where he could get it.
The finisher/painter showed up this morning and asked me what I was so POed about. He says you are the only one here. Fixing this messed up crap from yesterday...
It's everywhere. I'm 37, and 16 years ago I managed our city's pool. At 21 I struggled to find 16-20 year olds with a work ethic. It was really strange, but that trend has continued.
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Yes, I'm a product of public ed too and an ex-teacher. I'm not very complimentary of the process overall. I had and worked with some very good, very dedicated teachers. They are not the majority, but then above average is never the majority.
I really feel like I educated myself, with a few pushes and prods from the occasional good teacher. School doesn't really accommodate kids on either end of the Bell curve.
When teaching, keeping up with the bureaucracy made actual teaching a secondary priority. The kids always needed more than I could give them.
And, that's my 10 cents worth.
The new teacher evaluation system in Ohio is a perfect example of that. I spend hours creating redundant paperwork! It puts the evaluation at the local level. Great, right? Well the system in which I teach has so much nepotism it's practically incestuous. The superintendent's daughter, for example, became an administrator at the ripe age of 24. So the bad teachers that don't teach but coach (football is state champ bound again) get a pass.
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I flunked kindergarten 8888crybaby
Hey, I had three years of kindergarten... Top that...
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Yes, I'm a product of public ed too and an ex-teacher. I'm not very complimentary of the process overall. I had and worked with some very good, very dedicated teachers. They are not the majority, but then above average is never the majority.
I really feel like I educated myself, with a few pushes and prods from the occasional good teacher. School doesn't really accommodate kids on either end of the Bell curve. Modified: that sounds wrong. "Normal", non-quirky kids do ok. Others...not so much.
When teaching, keeping up with the bureaucracy made actual teaching a secondary priority. The kids always needed more than I could give them.
And, that's my 10 cents worth.
@Sanguine When I made my one and only foray into the political arena as a candidate (ran for state rep back in 1994) one of my campaign themes was that "Teachers in our public schools could do with a little less "help" from people in agencies who's only purpose in life is to justify their existence ." Can you see why I wasn't elected?
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@Sanguine When I made my one and only foray into the political arena as a candidate (ran for state rep back in 1994) one of my campaign themes was that "Teaches in our public schools could do with a little less "help" from people in agencies who's only purpose in life is to justify their existence ." Can you see why I wasn't elected?
Well, you should have been, @Bigun!
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Well, you should have been, @Bigun!
Glad to know I was on the right track!
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@Sanguine When I made my one and only foray into the political arena as a candidate (ran for state rep back in 1994) one of my campaign themes was that "Teachers in our public schools could do with a little less "help" from people in agencies who's only purpose in life is to justify their existence ." Can you see why I wasn't elected?
I'd have voted for you 888high58888
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I'd have voted for you 888high58888
TYVM!!! :beer:
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I'm also a product of public schools in the Houston suburbs. Elementary school is where my teachers really excelled. In elementary school we performed live frog dissections and number base conversions. I did not understand having to take a Spanish language class in the 5th grade though.That was when they expected you to put the effort in and apply yourself. The rest of my schools, not so much. I did have one college electronics instructor that taught us just like in elementary. He really ground it into us and he had so many problems on his tests that if you weren't in robot replay mode, you didn't have the time to make it thru. My Calc4 class was with a new book that the book store didn't have and there were none in the library. Try taking a math class with no book.
So I dropped out and joined the Navy. I loved the work. I loved the comradery. I hated the governmental bullshit.
A few years after I got out, I'm back in school some part time, some full time, while working full time. I changed my major from organic chemistry to computer hardware. Eleven years after I started college, I graduated and off to work as a NASA subcontractor. I loved the work. I loved the comradery. I hated the governmental bullshit.
I've always hated being told what to do. Just let me know what it is that you think you want.
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I have a couple of kids in the public elementary system and they are doing very well, mostly get A's and are learning stuff I didn't see until junior hi, or high school. They take the common core tests a couple of times a year and I find it interesting to see how they compare nationally. We uniformly have good teachers up here and from my observation of the teachers and the kids a good teacher can teach no matter what the curriculum and if students have a good teacher they learn no matter what the curriculum.
For some common core is just political code for way to much government involvement in education. I get that, but if you have kids you have to be involved in their education on a daily basis if you want them to succeed.....
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Somewhere I was reading some comments about how the public schools of today are only there to prove up and consolidate how crappy parents are today.
I admit I don't know much about Common corpse or whatever it is. I know when I was in school, up through high school, they didn't have a problem applying the board of education across the rear. And people failed.
There were winners and there were losers.
I probably should pay more attention but since I am a grandparent I don't. I care about the progress of the g kids. I helped my grandson, the first grader, with a project. He needed a "fall' leaf and a short write up about it. The neighbors have a nice maple that had some good big leaves. We selected a few and pressed them flat between some books and then put the one he wanted in a photo album page. Behind the plastic. My son told us J was the only kid that had such a great presentation and the teacher appreciated that someone had taken the time with the kid to try a little harder.
I dislike half-assed crap. And I had a discussion about that subject with the grandson.
Other than that my grandson said his teacher said we should vote for Trump because he had a nice family and Hillary killed babies.
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I've always hated being told what to do. Just let me know what it is that you think you want.
Oh, I don't mind specs, but I really want to know the objective. Just what is it you want to accomplish?
I ran into that in industry, too, with some oil companies willing to test every zone that showed promise (an absolute joy to work for, and companies I found a lot of oil for, because they let me) and others who dogmatically insisted that there couldn't be any oil where we found it, but it HAD to be where we didn't. (Their computer told them so).
Loved the work, worked with some absolutely wonderful people, a rare few jerks, but hated megacorp BS when and where I encountered it.
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I had a great education until 4th grade. Then I started getting teachers who should have never been teachers- they were teachers to get out of going to Vietnam. The women were older and burnt out, near retirement age, or fresh first year teachers who were good but totally "green". Way after the war in Vietnam was over, these guys stayed because they knew they couldn't get jobs doing anything else.
If it wasn't for my parents making me go to summer school at the local ivy college ( enrichment classes for HS kids who wanted to have really good resumes to get into good/great colleges) I don't think I would have learned a darn thing.
I'm lucky I am a voracious reader and that helped a great deal. I really hated HS. Most miserable 4 years of my life.
College was the best years of my life, I would give everything to go back in a time machine and stay there forever. It was the 80s, best music, best president, etc.
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I have a couple of kids in the public elementary system and they are doing very well, mostly get A's and are learning stuff I didn't see until junior hi, or high school. They take the common core tests a couple of times a year and I find it interesting to see how they compare nationally. We uniformly have good teachers up here and from my observation of the teachers and the kids a good teacher can teach no matter what the curriculum and if students have a good teacher they learn no matter what the curriculum.
For some common core is just political code for way to much government involvement in education. I get that, but if you have kids you have to be involved in their education on a daily basis if you want them to succeed.....
Here's one example of rotten to the Common Core: I used to teach 11th grade American Literature, but now I teach ELA 11. It's pretty much the same pieces of literature except Common Core eliminated the importance of when certain pieces of literature were written, so we no longer study eras or movements. It's just expose move on, expose move on, expose move on. So Romanticism and Transcendentalism are no longer a focus. Don't get me wrong, we still read a few tiny excerpts from Emerson, but the concepts of the movement are eliminated. We no longer discuss self-reliance, freedom, rugged individualism, etc. you know, the concepts upon which our nation was founded.
Here's another example: When we read the founding documents the focus is on women, slaves, and Native Americans. In fact, our old textbook included Jefferson's original Declaration complete with the paragraph about slavery. It lead to some amazing classroom discussions. Our CC text does not have that. Of course, I bring it up anyway :whistle:
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@goodwithagun @Doug Loss
The biggest challenge for conservatives today. Bringing the fundamentals to the attention of the younger people.
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@goodwithagun , I should mention my husband is a product of the schools across the river from you (WHS '68), and he learned many of the things that aren't taught anymore, like sentence diagramming and proper grammar. A cousin of his taught Latin there. Do any public high schools offer Latin?
He retired from a college administration position and was dismayed to see how poorly and incoherently the students - mostly graduates of high schools in our region - wrote.
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Oh, I don't mind specs, but I really want to know the objective. Just what is it you want to accomplish?
I ran into that in industry, too, with some oil companies willing to test every zone that showed promise (an absolute joy to work for, and companies I found a lot of oil for, because they let me) and others who dogmatically insisted that there couldn't be any oil where we found it, but it HAD to be where we didn't. (Their computer told them so).
Loved the work, worked with some absolutely wonderful people, a rare few jerks, but hated megacorp BS when and where I encountered it.
I'll bet I could name the companies but I won't!
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@goodwithagun , I should mention my husband is a product of the schools across the river from you (WHS '68), and he learned many of the things that aren't taught anymore, like sentence diagramming and proper grammar. A cousin of his taught Latin there. Do any public high schools offer Latin?
He retired from a college administration position and was dismayed to see how poorly and incoherently the students - mostly graduates of high schools in our region - wrote.
Only Spanish is taught at SHS. Latin would be so beneficial!
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@goodwithagun , I should mention my husband is a product of the schools across the river from you (WHS '68), and he learned many of the things that aren't taught anymore, like sentence diagramming and proper grammar. A cousin of his taught Latin there. Do any public high schools offer Latin?
He retired from a college administration position and was dismayed to see how poorly and incoherently the students - mostly graduates of high schools in our region - wrote.
Since he is a retired college administrator ask him how much they spent each year on remediation efforts to get incoming freshmen up to speed so they could attempt to do college-level work. You WILL be shocked at the answer.
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I teach ELA and social studies in an urban high school. It's not easy, but I've come to look at it as my ministry. My kids attend our local private Catholic school and I get crap from both sides. I don't care! I'm staying in the public system because I work with "teachers" who literally sit on their butts and do nothing but collect pay checks. I stick around for the students that want to learn and the students that don't know they want to learn. It's frustrating, heartbreaking, and rewarding at the same time. I work from within to make a mockery of the union, our progressive discipline policy, and Ohio's state mandated cooperative learning groups. Pray for conservative public school teachers. We're fighting the good fight even though we're surrounded on all sides.
@goodwithagun I saw the same thing when I worked in an urban and to a much lesser extent suburban school. In the rural schools I don't see it hardly at all. In 15 years of teaching in a rural environment I only have see two teachers that taught so they could coach.
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It's everywhere. I'm 37, and 16 years ago I managed our city's pool. At 21 I struggled to find 16-20 year olds with a work ethic. It was really strange, but that trend has continued.
@Sanguine @goodwithagun I think a lot (not all) has to do with location. In the rural areas it is either work or starve. most people (not all again) have a very good work ethic. They understand that their survival depends more on themselves.
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@Sanguine @goodwithagun I think a lot (not all) has to do with location. In the rural areas it is either work or starve. most people (not all again) have a very good work ethic. They understand that their survival depends more on themselves.
@verga, Yes, you would think so. However, I taught in a rural area.
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@Sanguine @goodwithagun I think a lot (not all) has to do with location. In the rural areas it is either work or starve. most people (not all again) have a very good work ethic. They understand that their survival depends more on themselves.
“The mobs of the great cities add just so much to the support of pure government as sores do to the strength of the human body. It is the manners and spirit of a people which preserve a republic in vigor. A degeneracy in these is a canker which soon eats to the heart of its laws and constitution.”
Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XIX, 1782. ME 2:230
"I think our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries as long as they are chiefly agricultural, and this will be as long as there shall be vacant lands in any part of America. When they get piled upon one another in large cities as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe.”
Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. Papers 12:442
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Since he is a retired college administrator ask him how much they spent each year on remediation efforts to get incoming freshmen up to speed so they could attempt to do college-level work. You WILL be shocked at the answer.
Fully half of the freshmen at his college required remedial coursework. He worked at two colleges, a private one considered quite exclusive and a public institution. At both places, the student newspapers were horrendous examples of poor writing. The state school wasn't the least bit selective when it came to admissions, but the writing was no worse there than at the private college.
The middle and high schools are failing these children. As I mentioned here the other day, my head nearly exploded when I looked at the agenda for my local school board's meeting recently and saw that they were approving a "field trip" for the fifth-graders to a bowling alley. Why the heck are we taxpayers transporting kiddies to a bowling alley in the middle of a school day when they're not learning even the fundamentals of the English language? They're not going to a museum or the science center, they're going to a freaking bowling alley! :nometalk:
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@goodwithagun , I should mention my husband is a product of the schools across the river from you (WHS '68), and he learned many of the things that aren't taught anymore, like sentence diagramming and proper grammar. A cousin of his taught Latin there. Do any public high schools offer Latin?
Our district does there is a waiting list to get in, and our kids consistently do very well on the National Latin exam.
I live just north of the Bible belt.
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Fully half of the freshmen at his college required remedial coursework. He worked at two colleges, a private one considered quite exclusive and a public institution. At both places, the student newspapers were horrendous examples of poor writing. The state school wasn't the least bit selective when it came to admissions, but the writing was no worse there than at the private college.
The middle and high schools are failing these children. As I mentioned here the other day, my head nearly exploded when I looked at the agenda for my local school board's meeting recently and saw that they were approving a "field trip" for the fifth-graders to a bowling alley. Why the heck are we taxpayers transporting kiddies to a bowling alley in the middle of a school day when they're not learning even the fundamentals of the English language? They're not going to a museum or the science center, they're going to a freaking bowling alley! :nometalk:
Not to mention learning nothing about their country's history and their heritage.
It literally makes me sick when I think about it.
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Not to mention learning nothing about their country's history and their heritage.
It literally makes me sick when I think about it.
The college kids used to go to my husband for answers to their questions on history. One girl asked, "Mr. M, who is 'ill dooce'?"
"Do you mean Il Duce?" he responded, proceeding with a dissertation on early 20th century Italy. The kids lapped it up. "Where did you learn all that stuff, Mr. M.?"
The funny thing is that his undergraduate degree wasn't even in history, but chemistry!
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The college kids used to go to my husband for answers to their questions on history. One girl asked, "Mr. M, who is 'ill dooce'?"
"Do you mean Il Duce?" he responded, proceeding with a dissertation on early 20th century Italy. The kids lapped it up. "Where did you learn all that stuff, Mr. M.?"
The funny thing is that his undergraduate degree wasn't even in history, but chemistry!
Don't get me started! I could go on for hours!
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@goodwithagun @Doug Loss
The biggest challenge for conservatives today. Bringing the fundamentals to the attention of the younger people.
We need for them to understand freedom better. They want it, all young people do. It is at the core of their fundamental rebellious streak, to shuck the 'rules' and find their own way. The only way to nip that in the bud is to get them to understand those rules aren't there to punish them, but to keep them from some of life's more conspicuous pitfalls and save them a lot of pain and suffering. It is why Conservatives are the way we are, and many of us earned our political beliefs and even morals the hard way.
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We need for them to understand freedom better. They want it, all young people do. It is at the core of their fundamental rebellious streak, to shuck the 'rules' and find their own way. The only way to nip that in the bud is to get them to understand those rules aren't there to punish them, but to keep them from some of life's more conspicuous pitfalls and save them a lot of pain and suffering. It is why Conservatives are the way we are, and many of us earned our political beliefs and even morals the hard way.
And this is precisely why I am in education and I say more Conservatives need to get involved. Become teachers/ administrators, run for the school board.
We can't afford the luxury of sitting back and just wringing our hands. The liberals don't have us out numbered, they have us out positioned.
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Only Spanish is taught at SHS. Latin would be so beneficial!
I had Spanish and French in HS. I had to know Spanish and Latin (reading not speaking) for my Masters.
I studied Latin verbs and nouns for SAT prep and almost got a perfect score on the English part. I enjoyed Latin.
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And this is precisely why I am in education and I say more Conservatives need to get involved. Become teachers/ administrators, run for the school board.
We can't afford the luxury of sitting back and just wringing our hands. The liberals don't have us out numbered, they have us out positioned.
I agree wholeheartedly. Our school board seems to be comprised of nothing but retired teachers and school employees (e.g., bus drivers), whose only interest is protecting teachers and employees - not improving the quality of education. It's time to look into becoming a candidate.
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And this is precisely why I am in education and I say more Conservatives need to get involved. Become teachers/ administrators, run for the school board.
We can't afford the luxury of sitting back and just wringing our hands. The liberals don't have us out numbered, they have us out positioned.
I spent the last 22.5 years of my working life working at one of our state institutions of "higher" learning here in Texas! Didn't fit in all that well because I had spent the first 30 or so working in the private sector and the cultures clashed, to say the least.
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I spent the last 22.5 years of my working life working at one of our state institutions of "higher" learning here in Texas! Didn't fit in all that well because I had spent the first 30 or so working in the private sector and the cultures clashed, to say the least.
Ya, it is always special when the "experts" in the education system tell people how various jobs/business work without any actual experience in that area whatsoever... The only teachers for business/job preparation that are really worthwhile are those who have had significant experience in the field from the private sector.
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I just want to say that good teachers are more precious than gold and jewels.
My son is very high IQ. His nickname starting in first grade was "Encyclopedia". He went to private school for K through 8th. In the second grade his teacher was Mr. C, who was scheduled to retire that year. He fell in love with my son and would tell the school each year, "I'll teach another year if I can teach the next grade up". Thus he taught my son from 2nd thru 8th. Bless that man, he really provided an education for what surely was a challenging boy. High school was public school and it was hellish. He was so bored that he simply didn't bother with home work, but always made 100's on the tests. The high school suggested sending him to vocational school! Oh, and they wouldn't put him in the advanced placement courses because his grades were not good enough. Never mind the accumulated years of IQ tests that put him at the genius level. At the beginning of his junior year, I agreed to let him take his GED and go to college. His lowest score on the GED was 98 percentile. He did brilliantly in college. He might have actually studied a time or two.
So along comes my even brighter grandson. His K year he was ill and missed a lot of school. They said he needed to be held back, not in math mind you, but because he wasn't up to par in reading. I exploded all over the school system on that one. No more repeats of bright bored little boys. During the summer I taught him phonics and then shelled out the money to have him tested and evaluated. Based on that they put him in the 2nd grade the next year.
He now attends a school with an integrated campus, so he can stay in home room with kids his age, but take math and science and other courses at the appropriate grade level - which this year (at age 10) is the 11th grade level.
Without Mr. C, I don't know what would have happened to my son. That man was truly instrumental in helping my son find success in life.