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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: starbuck_archer on January 15, 2021, 06:14:31 pm

Title: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: starbuck_archer on January 15, 2021, 06:14:31 pm
We've all heard it before: Republicans/Trump Supporters/Anyone not buying the woke agenda must be a NAZI!!!  George Orwell, comment in the late 1940s/early 1950s, even mused that less than 10 years after the war was over, any "undesirable" political ideology was being labeled as "Nazis!".

I present to you a game of "Who said it?  Bernie Sanders, or Joseph Goebbels":

-"The money pigs of capitalist democracy….Money has made slaves of us…Money is the curse of mankind. It smothers the seed of everything great and good. Every penny is sticky with sweat and blood.”

-"Communism. Jewry. I am a German Communist."

-"We are not a charitable institution but a Party of revolutionary socialists."

-"The people's community must not be a mere phrase, but a revolutionary achievement following from the radical carrying out of the basic life needs of the working class. A ruthless battle against corruption! A war against exploitation, freedom for the workers! The elimination of all economic-capitalist influences on national policy. Maintaining a rotten economic system has nothing to do with nationalism, which is an affirmation of the Fatherland... The sin of liberal thinking was to overlook socialism’s nation-building strengths, thereby allowing its energies to go in anti-national directions. "

-"We are socialists because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality."

Need I go on?  Apparently, I do:

-Which side is against the Jews (Ilhan Omar).

-Which side is promoting white identitarianism and the idea that one race owes another something?

-Which side is promoting the segregation of the races (Prop 16)

Sorry lefties, you are the actual Nazis, not us.

Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: mystery-ak on January 15, 2021, 06:16:10 pm
Interesting first post....Welcome to TBR
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: starbuck_archer on January 15, 2021, 06:20:47 pm
It is an interesting first post. However, I academically propose that we have all been lied to: The Nazis were not a "right wing regime"  but rather a left-wing regime that saw itself in competition with Marxist-Leninist Communism, not as an enemy.

As Anthony Read says in The Devil's Disciples: Hiltler's Inner Circle:

Goebbels saw the ultimate enemy as international capitalism, and those who held power in Germany as its lackey, betraying their nation for personal gain. These were the traditional targets of the Communists, of course, so the Nazis and the KPD, the Communist Party of Germany, were in direct competition for the same constituency, two rabid dogs fighting for one bone… And Goebbels, who has so recently been happy to describe himself as a ‘German Communist’ led the fight with all the intensity of a religious convert.

We should stop letting the left equate us to the Nazis when in fact it is them who are the Nazis, by all logic and when one really looks at the ideology.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: starbuck_archer on January 15, 2021, 06:23:43 pm
I should also note that Goebbels was arguably Hitler's most ardent supporter: Not Goring, Himmler, Borman nor Donitz were willing to make a "last stand" with Hitler in Berlin in 1945.  As Hitler's propaganda minister, I seriously doubt that more than a tiny amount of propaganda was broadcast to the German people without Hitler's at least tacit consent.  Only Goebbels committed suicide with Hitler, and killed his own family out of loyalty to Hitler.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Hoodat on January 15, 2021, 06:28:50 pm
I should also note that Goebbels was arguably Hitler's most ardent supporter: Not Goring, Himmler, Borman nor Donitz were willing to make a "last stand" with Hitler in Berlin in 1945.  As Hitler's propaganda minister, I seriously doubt that more than a tiny amount of propaganda was broadcast to the German people without Hitler's at least tacit consent.  Only Goebbels committed suicide with Hitler, and killed his own family out of loyalty to Hitler.

@starbuck_archer

You are correct, sir.  And welcome to TBR.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: LMAO on January 17, 2021, 03:54:05 am
Only Goebbels committed suicide with Hitler, and killed his own family out of loyalty to Hitler.

I suspect Mr and Mts Goebbels killed their children not out of loyalty to Hitler but as more of an act , in their view, of mercy

Imagine the mistreatment his children would have experienced in a Soviet orphanage
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Hoodat on January 17, 2021, 04:05:46 am
I suspect Mr and Mts Goebbels killed their children not out of loyalty to Hitler but as more of an act , in their view, of mercy

Imagine the mistreatment his children would have experienced in a Soviet orphanage

They would have met the same fate as Anastasia, Tatiana, Olga, and Alexei.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: dfwgator on January 17, 2021, 04:11:57 am
I should also note that Goebbels was arguably Hitler's most ardent supporter: Not Goring, Himmler, Borman nor Donitz were willing to make a "last stand" with Hitler in Berlin in 1945.  As Hitler's propaganda minister, I seriously doubt that more than a tiny amount of propaganda was broadcast to the German people without Hitler's at least tacit consent.  Only Goebbels committed suicide with Hitler, and killed his own family out of loyalty to Hitler.

I highly recommend everyone watch "The Goebbels Experiment" narrated by Kenneth Branagh, who reads excerpts from Goebbels' diaries.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: dfwgator on January 17, 2021, 04:12:50 am
I suspect Mr and Mts Goebbels killed their children not out of loyalty to Hitler but as more of an act , in their view, of mercy

Imagine the mistreatment his children would have experienced in a Soviet orphanage

I cannot even watch that scene in "Downfall".
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: dfwgator on January 17, 2021, 04:14:23 am
I suspect Mr and Mts Goebbels killed their children not out of loyalty to Hitler but as more of an act , in their view, of mercy

Imagine the mistreatment his children would have experienced in a Soviet orphanage

Conceivably they could have evacuated to the West, they would have been safe in American or British hands.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on January 17, 2021, 09:27:14 am
The prime pre-1940 allies,the communist and other totalitarian governments. Fascism is noting more than communism with money and the USSR and Nazi Germany were the bestest buddies that even had a mutual defense treaty vowing to come to the aid of each other if either were invaded,right up to the instant that Hitler invaded the USSR,and suddenly,overnight,Fascism became evil.

Go figure.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on January 17, 2021, 09:30:48 am
I highly recommend everyone watch "The Goebbels Experiment" narrated by Kenneth Branagh, who reads excerpts from Goebbels' diaries.

@dfwgator

I would be happy to do so if I knew who was broadcasting it.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on January 17, 2021, 09:33:01 am
Conceivably they could have evacuated to the West, they would have been safe in American or British hands.

@dfwgator

I agree,but we are not looking at it from the 1945 POV of the Goebbels family. We have the luxury of time and history to base our judgements on.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Hoodat on January 17, 2021, 02:13:44 pm
Goebbels was the one who issued the order that no German civilians could leave Berlin as Russian troops were about to push their way in.  His propaganda about the Russians became a self-fulfilling prophesy.  His caricature of the Russian soldier as a savage rapist actually came to pass, but only as a response to German savagery.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on January 18, 2021, 12:36:08 am
Goebbels was the one who issued the order that no German civilians could leave Berlin as Russian troops were about to push their way in.  His propaganda about the Russians became a self-fulfilling prophesy.  His caricature of the Russian soldier as a savage rapist actually came to pass, but only as a response to German savagery.

@Hoodat

I don't know who told you that HorseHillary,but they were full of Bubba. Stalin used mostly non-Russian (speaking ethnically) troops from the far east as his assault troops because they were considered to be "less civilized" than the ethnic Russians,but MY theory is that the major reason was there was nobody in Russia more pissed off at white people than them,and they would be happy to brutalize a bunch of white people instead of being brutalized by a bunch of white people.

He also used "NKVD Blocking Squads" behind the assault troops that were armed with 30 caliber machine guns to shoot any Soviet soldier who tried to retreat. This was a great encouragement to them to do their best to seize an objective as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: skeeter on January 18, 2021, 12:48:36 am
It is an interesting first post. However, I academically propose that we have all been lied to: The Nazis were not a "right wing regime"  but rather a left-wing regime that saw itself in competition with Marxist-Leninist Communism, not as an enemy.

As Anthony Read says in The Devil's Disciples: Hiltler's Inner Circle:

Goebbels saw the ultimate enemy as international capitalism, and those who held power in Germany as its lackey, betraying their nation for personal gain. These were the traditional targets of the Communists, of course, so the Nazis and the KPD, the Communist Party of Germany, were in direct competition for the same constituency, two rabid dogs fighting for one bone… And Goebbels, who has so recently been happy to describe himself as a ‘German Communist’ led the fight with all the intensity of a religious convert.

We should stop letting the left equate us to the Nazis when in fact it is them who are the Nazis, by all logic and when one really looks at the ideology.

In spite of what Wikipedia (having changed the definition of fascism on their site to suit their own political bent) says the literal definition of fascist is an authoritarian partnership between government and big business to set national policy. Which side of the ideological continuum most closely resembles that definition?
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on January 18, 2021, 02:27:46 am
In spite of what Wikipedia (having changed the definition of fascism on their site to suit their own political bent) says the literal definition of fascist is an authoritarian partnership between government and big business to set national policy. Which side of the ideological continuum most closely resembles that definition?


@skeeter

The DNC.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: skeeter on January 18, 2021, 02:36:15 am
In spite of what Wikipedia (having changed the definition of fascism on their site to suit their own political bent) says the literal definition of fascist is an authoritarian partnership between government and big business to set national policy. Which side of the ideological continuum most closely resembles that definition?


@skeeter

The DNC.
:bingo:

Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: roamer_1 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:29 am
It is an interesting first post. However, I academically propose that we have all been lied to: The Nazis were not a "right wing regime"  but rather a left-wing regime that saw itself in competition with Marxist-Leninist Communism, not as an enemy.

As Anthony Read says in The Devil's Disciples: Hiltler's Inner Circle:

Goebbels saw the ultimate enemy as international capitalism, and those who held power in Germany as its lackey, betraying their nation for personal gain. These were the traditional targets of the Communists, of course, so the Nazis and the KPD, the Communist Party of Germany, were in direct competition for the same constituency, two rabid dogs fighting for one bone… And Goebbels, who has so recently been happy to describe himself as a ‘German Communist’ led the fight with all the intensity of a religious convert.

We should stop letting the left equate us to the Nazis when in fact it is them who are the Nazis, by all logic and when one really looks at the ideology.

FACTS. And it should not be forgotten that it was the Nationalist socialist populist home boy that wound up buffaloing the people into sacrificing their principles and moral compass... 

Winning :whistle:
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: skeeter on January 18, 2021, 03:02:09 am
FACTS. And it should not be forgotten that it was the Nationalist socialist populist home boy that wound up buffaloing the people into sacrificing their principles and moral compass... 

Winning :whistle:
I dunno, the nazis never had more than 33% support in Germany and the socialist Hitler was crowned Chancellor by Hindenburg after he bullied the old man. And that was all she wrote.

Don’t think his rise had anything to do with convincing Germans to compromise their principles.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: roamer_1 on January 18, 2021, 03:08:25 am
I dunno, the nazis never had more than 33% support in Germany and the socialist Hitler was crowned Chancellor by Hindenburg after he bullied the old man. And that was all she wrote.

Don’t think his rise had anything to do with convincing Germans to compromise their principles.

Dig into the Lutheran Church over there unabridged, and understand what they acquiesced to.He got this close to becoming a caesar. 'Kaiser' is the same dang thing from a political angle, but without the worshiping,  which is defintely where he was headed. The occult powers exuding from that lot were tremendous. And the official state church caved to much of it... To include rousing the old Teutonic gods.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: skeeter on January 18, 2021, 03:12:25 am
Dig into the Lutheran Church over there unabridged, and understand what they acquiesced to.He got this close to becoming a caesar. 'Kaiser' is the same dang thing from a political angle, but without the worshiping,  which is defintely where he was headed. The occult powers exuding from that lot were tremendous. And the official state church caved to much of it... To include rousing the old Teutonic gods.
Reading Toland’s AH biography now. Got any specific reading to recommend?
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: roamer_1 on January 18, 2021, 03:28:10 am
Reading Toland’s AH biography now. Got any specific reading to recommend?

long ago and far, far away. Look deep into Wewelsburg Castle. Himmler. That was the center of it. no doubt if you can keep your teeth from curling, you can go from there into the political superstructure imposing it upon religion.

And while you are at it, don't think it's just the Germans. You might look at Jekyll Island over here too. Occult has been in the halls of power all the way along. Christians have just bought into science and reason enough that such things are wholly ignored.

Alister Crowley and Jack Parsons (yeah, that guy) and the Babylon Working... Claimed to have opened a portal for the gods that they could not close. That's a little place called Area 51 these days. Go figger.

Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: LegalAmerican on January 18, 2021, 03:29:44 am
We've all heard it before: Republicans/Trump Supporters/Anyone not buying the woke agenda must be a NAZI!!!  George Orwell, comment in the late 1940s/early 1950s, even mused that less than 10 years after the war was over, any "undesirable" political ideology was being labeled as "Nazis!".

I present to you a game of "Who said it?  Bernie Sanders, or Joseph Goebbels":

-"The money pigs of capitalist democracy….Money has made slaves of us…Money is the curse of mankind. It smothers the seed of everything great and good. Every penny is sticky with sweat and blood.”

-"Communism. Jewry. I am a German Communist."

-"We are not a charitable institution but a Party of revolutionary socialists."

-"The people's community must not be a mere phrase, but a revolutionary achievement following from the radical carrying out of the basic life needs of the working class. A ruthless battle against corruption! A war against exploitation, freedom for the workers! The elimination of all economic-capitalist influences on national policy. Maintaining a rotten economic system has nothing to do with nationalism, which is an affirmation of the Fatherland... The sin of liberal thinking was to overlook socialism’s nation-building strengths, thereby allowing its energies to go in anti-national directions. "

-"We are socialists because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality."

Need I go on?  Apparently, I do:

-Which side is against the Jews (Ilhan Omar).

-Which side is promoting white identitarianism and the idea that one race owes another something?

-Which side is promoting the segregation of the races (Prop 16)

Sorry lefties, you are the actual Nazis, not us.


 :bingo:

Bernie is JEWISH , so he didn't say one line on here.  lol
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: LegalAmerican on January 18, 2021, 03:48:02 am
Goebbels was the one who issued the order that no German civilians could leave Berlin as Russian troops were about to push their way in.  His propaganda about the Russians became a self-fulfilling prophesy.  His caricature of the Russian soldier as a savage rapist actually came to pass, but only as a response to German savagery.

  Hitler was Austrian. Hessians were German who fought for George Washington, to create our country.

 About 1933, The GERMANS were being starved to death.  Guess by whom?

  Hitler created the AUTOBAHN. He created the VOLKSWAGEN, he supported women. Muslim Iman, supported Hilter, and when Hitler just wanted to deport Jewish people, Muslim, said.."NOT GOOD ENOUGH". Hitler asked. " what then?"  MUSLIM SAID.."BURN THEM."  As told by PM, BEN, IN ISRAEL.

German people had to join military or be shot to death...right then and there. What would you do? 

My dad was in an AMERICAN CONCENTRATION CAMP AND HE WAS STARVING....he ate some beets grown for cattle, not human consumption to survive. Reaching into the field, they were next to. Not treated well. He and the others took American POW,  as they figured they had a better chance of survival, than going with Russias and sent to SIBERIA.  GUARANTEED DEATH.   He only talked about it to me, at age 88.  He didn't like the memory. German savagery? 
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: LegalAmerican on January 18, 2021, 03:54:31 am
German American Day October 6th

October 2, 2011 GW Administrator NEWS 0
On October 2nd, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, in a ceremony in the Rose Garden of the White House signed the first proclamation into law which made October 6th, National German American Day. This day is celebrated every year and calls the attention of the American people to the many contributions German Americans have made to America in over 300 years in this country.

“Our citizens of German descent excel in every discipline and open our minds to the expanses of human possibility. When we drive across a suspension bridge, listen to music played on a Steinway piano or send a child to Kindergarten, their unique traditions and customs surround us. German Americans have influenced our Nation in myriad ways with their industry, culture, and engagement in public life. America is a stronger Nation because of those families who have established longstanding roots in our country, as well as by those who have recently emigrated from abroad. German immigrants, inhabiting every major city, have given much of themselves throughout our history, selflessly expanding the reach of the American Dream.”
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: LegalAmerican on January 18, 2021, 04:00:06 am
Found it.
-------------------------------------------------------------
; Proclamation 5719 -- German-American Day, 1987.    October 2, 1987
> By the President of the United States of America Proclamation
 
More Americans trace their heritage back to German ancestry than to any other nationality. More than seven ; million Germans have come to our shores through the years, and today some 60 million Americans -- one  in four -- are of German descent. Few people have blended so completely into the multicultural tapestry of American society and yet have made such singular economic, political, social, scientific, and cultural contributions to the growth and success of these United States as have Americans of German extraction.

The United States has embraced a vast array of German traditions, institutions, and influences. Many of these ; have become so accepted as parts of our way of life that their ethnic origin has been obscured. For instance ; Christmas trees and Broadway musicals are familiar features of American society. Our kindergartens, graduate i schools, the social security system, and labor unions are all based on models derived from Germany.

German teachers, musicians, and enthusiastic amateurs have left an indelible imprint on classical music : hymns, choral singing, and marching bands in our country. In architecture and design, German contributions :  include the modern suspension bridge, Bauhaus, and Jugendstil.

German-American scientists have nelped | make the United States the world's pioneer in research and technology. The American work ethic, a major ; factor in the rapid rise of the United States to preeminence in agriculture and industry, owes much to German - Americans' commitment to excellence.

For more than 3 centuries, Germans have helped build, invigorate, and strengthen this country. But the United States has given as well as received. Just a generation ago, America conceived of and swiftly implemented ; the Marshall Plan, which helped the new German democracy rise from the rubble of war to become a beacon  of democracy in Central Europe. The Berlin Airlift demonstrated the American commitment to the defense of freedom when, still recovering from war, Berlin was threatened by strangulation from the Soviets.
Today, the Federal Republic of Germany is a bulwark of democracy in the heart of a divided Europe. Germans and Americans are rightfully proud of our common values as well as our shared heritage. For more than 3 decades the German-American partnership has been a linchpin in the Western Alliance. Thanks to it, a  whole generation of Americans and Europeans has grown up free to enjoy the fruits of liberty.

Our histories are thus intertwined. We now contribute to each other's trade, enjoy each other's cultures, and  learn from each other's experiences. The German-American Friendship Garden, which will be dedicated in the District of Columbia in the near future, is symbolic of the close and amicable relations between West Germany  and the United States.


The Congress, by Public Law 100 - 104, has designated October 6, 1987, the 304th anniversary of the arrival  of the first German immigrants in Philadelphia, as " German-American Day" and has authorized and requested the President to issue a proclamation in observance of that day.

Now, Therefore, I, Ronald Reagan, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim Tuesday, j October 6, 1987, as German-American Day. I urge all Americans to learn more about the contributions of German immigrants to the life and culture of the United States and to observe this day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand this 2nd day of Oct., in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and eighty-seven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twelfth.

Note from editorial staff: We were hoping to post the 25th anniversary of German-American Day proclamation signed by President Obama but we had to go to press before it was released.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Absalom on January 18, 2021, 04:45:29 am
We were colonized by England, who provided virtually all of our population during the two centuries from 1607 till 1812.
Following that, the Irish became our predominant immigrant class over the next 100 years.
This journo has absolutely zero idea what he's talking about!!!!

Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on January 18, 2021, 01:50:12 pm
  Hitler was Austrian. Hessians were German who fought for George Washington, to create our country.

 About 1933, The GERMANS were being starved to death.  Guess by whom?

  Hitler created the AUTOBAHN. He created the VOLKSWAGEN, he supported women. Muslim Iman, supported Hilter, and when Hitler just wanted to deport Jewish people, Muslim, said.."NOT GOOD ENOUGH". Hitler asked. " what then?"  MUSLIM SAID.."BURN THEM."  As told by PM, BEN, IN ISRAEL.

German people had to join military or be shot to death...right then and there. What would you do? 

My dad was in an AMERICAN CONCENTRATION CAMP AND HE WAS STARVING....he ate some beets grown for cattle, not human consumption to survive. Reaching into the field, they were next to. Not treated well. He and the others took American POW,  as they figured they had a better chance of survival, than going with Russias and sent to SIBERIA.  GUARANTEED DEATH.   He only talked about it to me, at age 88.  He didn't like the memory. German savagery?

@LegalAmerican

Individuals,of German or any other ethnic origin are NOT savages.

It is their political systems that are the savages that capture the people under their control and order them around.

This means BY EXTENSION the "true believers" in the absolute right of ANY political system is a savage,but you get the idea.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on January 18, 2021, 01:53:20 pm
We were colonized by England, who provided virtually all of our population during the two centuries from 1607 till 1812.
Following that, the Irish became our predominant immigrant class over the next 100 years.
This journo has absolutely zero idea what he's talking about!!!!

@Absalom

"WE",who,white man?

My ancestors on my mother's side were already here when the first white European man arrived.

Not to mention the fact that the Spanish were already well established before the first Englishman landed on Roanoke Island in what is  now called North Carolina.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Absalom on January 18, 2021, 05:57:18 pm
@Absalom
"WE",who,white man?
My ancestors on my mother's side were already here when the first white European man arrived.
Not to mention the fact that the Spanish were already well established before the first Englishman landed on Roanoke Island in what is  now called North Carolina.
---------------------------------
The opening statement asserts;
"More Americans trace their heritage back to German ancestry than any other nationality".
That statement is horse manure!!!
GOT IT?????????????????????????
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Hoodat on January 18, 2021, 06:13:11 pm
---------------------------------
The opening statement asserts;
"More Americans trace their heritage back to German ancestry than an other nationality".
That statement is horse manure!!!
GOT IT?????????????????????????

The American Community Survey (ACS) is a demographics survey program conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau. It regularly gathers information previously contained only in the long form of the decennial census, such as ancestry, citizenship, educational attainment, income, language proficiency, migration, disability, employment, and housing characteristics. These data are used by many public-sector, private-sector, and not-for-profit stakeholders to allocate funding, track shifting demographics, plan for emergencies, and learn about local communities. Sent to approximately 295,000 addresses monthly (or 3.5 million per year), it is the largest household survey that the Census Bureau administers.
.  .  . 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Community_Survey


German-American - 13.9%
Irish Americans - 10.0%
English Americans - 7.4%
Italian Americans - 5.2%
Polish Americans - 3.0%

These numbers are self-declared and would not include persons such as myself who declare themselves to be American-Americans.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: roamer_1 on January 18, 2021, 06:19:49 pm
The American Community Survey (ACS) is a demographics survey program conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau. It regularly gathers information previously contained only in the long form of the decennial census, such as ancestry, citizenship, educational attainment, income, language proficiency, migration, disability, employment, and housing characteristics. These data are used by many public-sector, private-sector, and not-for-profit stakeholders to allocate funding, track shifting demographics, plan for emergencies, and learn about local communities. Sent to approximately 295,000 addresses monthly (or 3.5 million per year), it is the largest household survey that the Census Bureau administers.
.  .  . 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Community_Survey


German-American - 13.9%
Irish Americans - 10.0%
English Americans - 7.4%
Italian Americans - 5.2%
Polish Americans - 3.0%

These numbers are self-declared and would not include persons such as myself who declare themselves to be American-Americans.

What might be interesting in that is distribution. No doubt, if one were to measure according to up in here, the population would be mostly Norwegian, with a strong showing of Scots/Irish... Now if you go over yonder to Bozeman, that's largely Dutch.

My point being that population does not equal distribution. A heavy population in the industrial north may not translate elsewhere.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Absalom on January 18, 2021, 06:54:20 pm
The American Community Survey (ACS) is a demographics survey program conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau. It regularly gathers information previously contained only in the long form of the decennial census, such as ancestry, citizenship, educational attainment, income, language proficiency, migration, disability, employment, and housing characteristics. These data are used by many public-sector, private-sector, and not-for-profit stakeholders to allocate funding, track shifting demographics, plan for emergencies, and learn about local communities. Sent to approximately 295,000 addresses monthly (or 3.5 million per year), it is the largest household survey that the Census Bureau administers.
.  .  . 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Community_Survey


German-American - 13.9%
Irish Americans - 10.0%
English Americans - 7.4%
Italian Americans - 5.2%
Polish Americans - 3.0%

These numbers are self-declared and would not include persons such as myself who declare themselves to be American-Americans.
---------------------
Thank you for the numbers which I accept.
Russell Kirk's "American Order" affirmed our founding Anglo-Saxon Legacy.
The figures for England and Ireland aggregate 17.4% and make my core point!
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on January 18, 2021, 11:40:32 pm
---------------------------------
The opening statement asserts;
"More Americans trace their heritage back to German ancestry than an other nationality".
That statement is horse manure!!!
GOT IT?????????????????????????

@Absalom

Nope,without dates of the mass immigration's from various European countries to America,any data you use is meaningless.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: LegalAmerican on January 19, 2021, 03:45:51 am

The Congress, by Public Law 100 - 104, has designated October 6, 1987, the 304th anniversary of the arrival  of the first German immigrants in Philadelphia, as " German-American Day" and has authorized and requested the President to issue a proclamation in observance of that day.

Now, Therefore, I, Ronald Reagan, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim Tuesday, j October 6, 1987, as German-American Day. I urge all Americans to learn more about the contributions of German immigrants to the life and culture of the United States and to observe this day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: LegalAmerican on January 19, 2021, 03:47:36 am
I don't know,  what there is,  to argue about. All facts.
------------------------------------------

October 2, 2011 GW Administrator NEWS 0

On October 2nd, 1987, President Ronald Reagan, in a ceremony in the Rose Garden of the White House signed the first proclamation into law which made October 6th, National German American Day. This day is celebrated every year and calls the attention of the American people to the many contributions German Americans have made to America in over 300 years in this country.

“Our citizens of German descent excel in every discipline and open our minds to the expanses of human possibility. When we drive across a suspension bridge, listen to music played on a Steinway piano or send a child to Kindergarten, their unique traditions and customs surround us. German Americans have influenced our Nation in myriad ways with their industry, culture, and engagement in public life. America is a stronger Nation because of those families who have established longstanding roots in our country, as well as by those who have recently emigrated from abroad. German immigrants, inhabiting every major city, have given much of themselves throughout our history, selflessly expanding the reach of the American Dream.”
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Hoodat on January 19, 2021, 02:12:43 pm
The figures for England and Ireland aggregate 17.4% and make my core point!

Lumping English and Irish together?  Pretty risky.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Absalom on January 19, 2021, 06:35:44 pm
Lumping English and Irish together?  Pretty risky.
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Which is why I used the broader label of Anglo-Saxon.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Hoodat on January 19, 2021, 07:07:26 pm
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Which is why I used the broader label of Anglo-Saxon.

The Irish aren't Anglo-Saxon.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: The_Reader_David on January 19, 2021, 10:59:03 pm
I am fond of point out that the Democrats have a concept of Lebens unwertesleben:  any child whose mother does not what it and who has not had the good fortune of being born yet.  In some quarters it seems to be broader than that -- it's Democrats who are the force behind attempts to legalize euthanasia and some Democrat governors were very eager for COVID-19 to spread in old age homes.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: The_Reader_David on January 19, 2021, 11:09:51 pm
And, regarding Goebbels:  he said that that pattern for the whole Nazi propaganda effort was Woodrow Wilson's Committee on Public Information.  There are also links between the Nazi notion of eugenics and the American "Progressive" eugenics movement that preceded it.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Absalom on January 20, 2021, 02:23:04 am
The Irish aren't Anglo-Saxon.
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Fair enough.
Yet the English and Irish shared many things, among them proximity, language and
religious faith, till Henry VIII.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: GtHawk on January 20, 2021, 03:22:22 am
@LegalAmerican

Individuals,of German or any other ethnic origin are NOT savages.

It is their political systems that are the savages that capture the people under their control and order them around.

This means BY EXTENSION the "true believers" in the absolute right of ANY political system is a savage,but you get the idea.
Why is it we continue to demonize the German people to this day, but we speak not of the Japanese and their atrocities, but we speak not of the Russian atrocities, but we speak not of the Chinese atrocities or conintinue to demonize them? In no way I am excusing the heinous acts of some Germans but WTF? Oh golly I forgot about the Italians.Heinous immoral acts should be treated as such with all the perpetrators and yes I believe that the extermination or the attempt needs to be remebered for eternity.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Absalom on January 20, 2021, 05:37:54 am
Why is it we continue to demonize the German people to this day, but we speak not of the Japanese and their atrocities, but we speak not of the Russian atrocities, but we speak not of the Chinese atrocities or conintinue to demonize them? In no way I am excusing the heinous acts of some Germans but WTF? Oh golly I forgot about the Italians.Heinous immoral acts should be treated as such with all the perpetrators and yes I believe that the extermination or the attempt needs to be remebered for eternity.
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Who is we?
The achievements of the Germans in Art (Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart) and Science
(Von Leibnitz/Calculus and Einstein/Relativity) rival those of Classical Greece!!!!!
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: dfwgator on January 20, 2021, 06:49:05 am
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Who is we?
The achievements of the Germans in Art (Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart) and Science
(Von Leibnitz/Calculus and Einstein/Relativity) rival those of Classical Greece!!!!!

My question is, why do the Austrians get a pass?  It's like the old joke that Austria is still trying to convince the world that Beethoven was Austrian, and Hitler was German.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: dfwgator on January 20, 2021, 07:28:27 am
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The opening statement asserts;
"More Americans trace their heritage back to German ancestry than any other nationality".
That statement is horse manure!!!
GOT IT?????????????????????????

Many Poles, like my ancestors, were classified as "German" because Poland didn't exist when they left for America.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Hoodat on January 20, 2021, 03:32:57 pm
Why is it we continue to demonize the German people to this day  .  .  .

Who is demonizing the German people?  No one called them "savages".  The original point was that invading German forces committed savagery in the Soviet Union.  Not your typical Wermacht soldiers.  But special units such as the Waffen SS and the Einsatzgruppen under the command of Himmler and Heydrich.  Goebbels pushed the propaganda that the Russians were savages.  But in many cases, it was payback for savagery that had been implemented on them.

The Soviet front was absolute hell for both sides.  The chance for survival for any POW was extremely low.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Hoodat on January 20, 2021, 03:39:27 pm
My question is, why do the Austrians get a pass?

And why do the Czechs get ignored?  Prague is almost half the distance to Berlin as is Vienna.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-e8_S7w7lvZ8/Tb11dSyhBKI/AAAAAAAAAAg/-oDOWNuVFlw/s1600/PilsnerUrquell.jpg)
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Absalom on January 21, 2021, 02:17:24 am
My question is, why do the Austrians get a pass?  It's like the old joke that Austria is still trying to convince the world that Beethoven was Austrian, and Hitler was German.
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Agree that Haydn and Mozart, while Austrian by geography, were Germanic in temperament.
In his Gallic Wars dispatches to Rome, Julius Caesar emphasized that his difficulty in controlling
the Germanic Tribes was because of their reach, which extended from modern Belgium, Holland
as well a much of Northern France into the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia as well as western Hungary.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Sled Dog on January 31, 2021, 06:32:48 pm
I dunno, the nazis never had more than 33% support in Germany and the socialist Hitler was crowned Chancellor by Hindenburg after he bullied the old man. And that was all she wrote.

Don’t think his rise had anything to do with convincing Germans to compromise their principles.

The problem with Germany is that, sure, only 33% of them supported National Socialism.

The other 67% supported communism, a form of socialism, and socialism, a form of socialism, and damn few supported freedom.

They deserved what they got.

More than 50% of the US supports fascism, a form of socialism, too.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Sled Dog on January 31, 2021, 06:43:19 pm
Why is it we continue to demonize the German people to this day, but we speak not of the Japanese and their atrocities, but we speak not of the Russian atrocities, but we speak not of the Chinese atrocities or conintinue to demonize them? In no way I am excusing the heinous acts of some Germans but WTF? Oh golly I forgot about the Italians.Heinous immoral acts should be treated as such with all the perpetrators and yes I believe that the extermination or the attempt needs to be remebered for eternity.


Who's "we", Kimosabe?

The Germans lost most of their testosterone in WWI, lost the rest in WWII, and now lie supine before the renewed Islamic invasion of Europe...actually, all of Europe is actively aiding the Invasionl.

Most people ignore the Germans now in Germany as being irrelevant and worthless.

The Real Nazis (TM) just stole the White House.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Sled Dog on January 31, 2021, 06:44:50 pm
My question is, why do the Austrians get a pass?  It's like the old joke that Austria is still trying to convince the world that Beethoven was Austrian, and Hitler was German.


It must be because the President of the 57 United States recognized that Austrians speak some other language than German.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: The_Reader_David on January 31, 2021, 07:53:22 pm
We were colonized by England, who provided virtually all of our population during the two centuries from 1607 till 1812.
Following that, the Irish became our predominant immigrant class over the next 100 years.
This journo has absolutely zero idea what he's talking about!!!!

No, in 1790 barely over half of our population was of English ancestry.  If you mean British and include Scots and Ulstermen, it was 65%, but even that isn't "virtually all".  Already at that point about 7% of the population were of German ancestry.

And from 1820 to 1920 we got about 4.3 million Irish immigrants and about 5.4 million German immigrants. The reason you think the Irish were "our predominant class" is that anti-Catholic prejudice made them "other," so they were noticed as immigrants, and treated as a "class" (cf. Irish need not apply), while German immigrants were largely Protestants, fit into the dominant culture more easily, and were less likely to settle in cities.


Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: The_Reader_David on January 31, 2021, 08:07:43 pm
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Thank you for the numbers which I accept.
Russell Kirk's "American Order" affirmed our founding Anglo-Saxon Legacy.
The figures for England and Ireland aggregate 17.4% and make my core point!

But self-identified Irish Americans are identifying with a Celtic, not an Anglo-Saxon ancestry.

Yes, we have an "Anglo-Saxon legacy" as Kirk put it.  Our Founding presupposed ideas of English law, like the writ of habeas corpus and the notion of common law as givens.  Our language has always been English (though briefly some of the Founders flirted with making German our official language as a way of sharpening the break with Britain, an idea sensibly rejected).  It think it would be fairer to say we haven an Anglo-Scottish legacy, since the republicanism the prevailed had Presbyterian origins, but Kirk, as a son of the Latin Church wouldn't want to emphasize that. 

The important legacy is one of cultural ancestry, not genetic ancestry.  Every American conservative, even if his or her ancestors to the tenth generation all came from Africa or China is a cultural descendant of Englishmen.  Don't weaken Kirk's valid point.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: skeeter on January 31, 2021, 08:39:22 pm
The problem with Germany is that, sure, only 33% of them supported National Socialism.

The other 67% supported communism, a form of socialism, and socialism, a form of socialism, and damn few supported freedom.

They deserved what they got.

More than 50% of the US supports fascism, a form of socialism, too.
Many of those who joined the Nazi party had come over from the Marxists. It's attraction, besides being more muscular, was it's nationalist component, as England and France were in the process of impoverishing Germany as a consequence of their losing WWI.

If the allies hadn't been such richards towards Germany following the great war all of Germany may well have ended up in the same camp as the international communists.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Sled Dog on January 31, 2021, 10:18:46 pm
Many of those who joined the Nazi party had come over from the Marxists. It's attraction, besides being more muscular, was it's nationalist component, as England and France were in the process of impoverishing Germany as a consequence of their losing WWI.

If the allies hadn't been such richards towards Germany following the great war all of Germany may well have ended up in the same camp as the international communists.

Racism is usually a big component of socialism.    It helps foment the "us vs them", "oppressed vs oppressors" dogma that fuels the emotional stupidity of the ground-level socialist.

This is certainly true of the Democrats (aka Rodents) of the United States.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Fishrrman on January 31, 2021, 10:48:50 pm
Sled Dog:
"The Real Nazis (TM) just stole the White House."

Stop being ignorant.
Those in power now are not Nazis, nor are they "facists".
They are communists.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on February 02, 2021, 02:06:52 am
Sled Dog:
"The Real Nazis (TM) just stole the White House."

Stop being ignorant.
Those in power now are not Nazis, nor are they "facists".
They are communists.

@Fishrrman   @Sled Dog

Truth to tell,there is damn little practical difference between the two.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Sled Dog on February 02, 2021, 04:51:41 am
Sled Dog:
"The Real Nazis (TM) just stole the White House."

Stop being ignorant.
Those in power now are not Nazis, nor are they "facists".
They are communists.

I can't stop being ignorant.

That would require I was ignorant in the first place.

The Rodents are fascists and the Rodents stole the 2020 election, ergo the fascists stole the election.

Communism is the socialist ideology that empowers the government to steal all private property and redistribute it to the party leaders....OOOOOPS!  to the people, to the people!   

Fascism is the socialist ideology that takes operational control of industry from the owners, but which permits the owners to keep the profits, using racism to con the marks into voting for this garbage. 

Communism kills millions by starvation, which is the natural by-product of socialism.

Fascism kills on an industrial scale, say like when the fascists in America murder a million babies a year, including 50% of black babies.   American fascists have murdered far more future US citizens than than the National Socialists of Germany killed Europeans in Europe.

Fascists use manufactured martyr figures like Horst Wessel to stir up party loyalty.   Fascists in America fake up Thug Martin and Thug Mountain and Rodney King and similar trash for the same purpose. 

National Socialist fascists used their sturmabteilung goons to riot in the streets.

Fascists in America now use Aunty Fa and (b)lack Lies Matter as their arm of organized street violence.

The Rodents are most definitely fascists.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Sled Dog on February 02, 2021, 05:04:04 am
@Fishrrman   @Sled Dog

Truth to tell,there is damn little practical difference between the two.

But it's funny watching the fascists of Aunty Fa pretend they oppose fascism, isn't it?

They pretend to be anarchists, too.   

Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on February 02, 2021, 05:19:11 am
But it's funny watching the fascists of Aunty Fa pretend they oppose fascism, isn't it?

They pretend to be anarchists, too.

@Sled Dog

I honestly don't believe they are pretending. I  think they really DO believe,in the technicolor dreams of their hearts,that they are global heroes leading the revolution for justize.

In other words,mental defectives. Mental defectives get re-cycled into lawn care products and similar useful items once their masters are in complete control,but they are too self-centered to see themselves as anything but heroes.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: The_Reader_David on February 06, 2021, 04:03:57 am

Stop being ignorant.
Those in power now are not Nazis, nor are they "facists".
They are communists.

Actually, they are fascists.   Even the Chinese Communist Party is fascist.  No one is trying for state control of all enterprises anymore (except the nitwits in Venezuela) because the infeasibility of central planning, pointed out in advance by Hayek and vonMises is what hollowed out the Soviet Union so that it collapsed with the gentle shove Reagan gave it by standing up to them in minor ways and launching an arms race they knew they couldn't win.  Those implementing their totalitarian impulses, leaving aside the bizarre hereditary Stalinist dictatorship in North Korea and the fools in Venezuela, are now all quite happy with market economics and wealth disparities, so long as everyone accepts the Party's social mandates (whether the Party is called the CCP or the Democratic Party).  Their economic program far more like that of the Italian fascists or Nazis than that of any regime that called itself Communist prior to the fall of the Soviet Union.  Heck the Democrats even have a notion of Lebens unwertesleben -- unborn children whose mothers don't want them, and in Mario Cuomo's case, nursing home residents -- so maybe Nazi is better than fascist as a descriptor, after all.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: Hoodat on February 06, 2021, 05:39:08 pm
The only difference between fascists and communists is the pretense of private property ownership.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: The_Reader_David on February 06, 2021, 07:24:34 pm
The only difference between fascists and communists is the pretense of private property ownership.

The thing is it's not entirely a pretense.  Fascists (among whom the Chinese "Communists" should now be included) get the efficiencies of market economics to undergird their tyranny, Communists, properly so called, like the nitwits in Venezuela, think central control of the economy will work. It doesn't.  Had WWII ended with the Nazis in control of most of Europe, descending into a Cold War between them and the Anglosphere, that Cold War would still be going on or would have gone hot again, with it unclear who would have won the next round.  We managed to crush the first attempts at fascism, but unlike Communism, which we knew could not work in the long-run (cf. Hayek and vonMises's critiques), we can have no confidence that fascism can't work in the long run.  Fascism is very attractive to the Davos crowd, tech oligarchs, the CCP, and everyone else who thinks they are smarter than everyone else, and therefore should be in charge (and who actually are smart enough to understand that central planning does not work).
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on February 06, 2021, 11:29:42 pm
The only difference between fascists and communists is the pretense of private property ownership.

@Hoodat

Well,you can start your own business under a fascist government,and you can't do that under communism. Fascism allows a certain amount of freedom as long as you are no threat to the State,and communism allows no individual freedoms at all.
Title: Re: Who is really closest to the Nazis?
Post by: sneakypete on February 06, 2021, 11:37:41 pm
The thing is it's not entirely a pretense.  Fascists (among whom the Chinese "Communists" should now be included) get the efficiencies of market economics to undergird their tyranny, Communists, properly so called, like the nitwits in Venezuela, think central control of the economy will work. It doesn't.  Had WWII ended with the Nazis in control of most of Europe, descending into a Cold War between them and the Anglosphere, that Cold War would still be going on or would have gone hot again, with it unclear who would have won the next round.  We managed to crush the first attempts at fascism, but unlike Communism, which we knew could not work in the long-run (cf. Hayek and vonMises's critiques), we can have no confidence that fascism can't work in the long run.  Fascism is very attractive to the Davos crowd, tech oligarchs, the CCP, and everyone else who thinks they are smarter than everyone else, and therefore should be in charge (and who actually are smart enough to understand that central planning does not work).

@The_Reader_David

All true.

Unfortunately,Fascism IS the wave of the future because all the billionaires will profit from it.

They will start out sorta mellow,with group hugs and telling everyone how wonderful everything is going to be under World Wide Government,Inc due to things like the end of wars and trade embargoes. Why,there are going to be unicorns flying around dropping baskets of 100 dollar bills for people to just pick up off the streets due to the end of unemployment,welfare,food stamps,etc,etc,etc. Taxes will be so long they will be practically non-existant!

What they will be telling you is basically true,but only half the story. The other half is the economy will boom because people considered to be non-productive will end up starving to death or killed in the streets while trying to steal something to sell to get food.

You either produce,or you die under fascism. You will work or you will take a long,long dirt nap.

Unless of course you are the children of any of the leadership crowd,be they local,national,or international. After all,what is the purpose of being Royalty if the rules that apply to everyone else also apply to you?