The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: edpc on March 09, 2018, 07:48:07 pm
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President Trump issued the second pardon of his presidency Friday to former Navy sailor Kristian Saucier.
Saucier was sentenced to a year in prison during the 2016 campaign for taking pictures inside a nuclear submarine. Trump invoked his case repeatedly on the campaign trail, saying he was “ruined†for doing “nothing†compared to Hillary Clinton. Saucier was 22 years old when he took the cellphone photos in 2009.
http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-pardons-kristian-saucier-former-sailor-jailed-for-submarine-pictures/article/2651195 (http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-pardons-kristian-saucier-former-sailor-jailed-for-submarine-pictures/article/2651195)
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Way overdue. He should’ve been pardoned long before Arpaio.
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Excellent!
What this guy did was wrong but he didnt deserve to have his life ruined.
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Good to hear..
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Good
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Sarah had mentioned this at the start of the briefing, but I couldn't find a source to post it.
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EXCELLENT news! Good job Mr. President!
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Excellent!
What this guy did was wrong but he didnt deserve to have his life ruined.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Excellent news.
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Just more tangible proof......Trump is God!
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"In looking back into our investigations into the mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts," Comey said. "All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of information exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here."
Sounds a lot like the circumstances of this case.
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Now he needs to work on getting his discharge upgraded.
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Jailed sailor reacts to being cited by Trump on Twitter
Former Navy Machinist Kristian Saucier speaks out on being mentioned by the president as an example of a Clinton double standard.
Kristian Saucier, the former U.S. Navy sailor who served a year behind bars for taking photos of classified areas in a nuclear submarine, has been pardoned, White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said Friday.
Saucier recently received a letter from the Department of Justice saying it was taking a new look at his request for a pardon. Although he was released from jail last year, he remained under house arrest.
Trump had denounced the government’s handling of Saucier’s case, calling it a political move and saying it contrasted with the velvet-gloved response to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s mismanagement of classified information through a private server....
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/09/trump-pardons-former-navy-sailor-imprisoned-for-taking-photos-on-nuclear-submarine-white-house-says.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/09/trump-pardons-former-navy-sailor-imprisoned-for-taking-photos-on-nuclear-submarine-white-house-says.html)
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Now he needs to work on getting his discharge upgraded.
Would it be general or honorable?
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Would it be general or honorable?
Given his rank at the time (E-6) and what was said today by Ms Sanders as well as what I can only assume are good fitness reports prior to this incident. I'd go for honorable and full reinstatement of pay and benefits.
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Given his rank at the time (E-6) and what was said today by Ms Sanders as well as what I can only assume are good fitness reports prior to this incident. I'd go for honorable and full reinstatement of pay and benefits.
He did break the law and do something stupid and potentially harmful.
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He did break the law and do something stupid and potentially harmful.
He made a mistake with the photos. He probably should have known better, but there was no determination of intent to distribute them. They were also not that damaging in relation to espionage value, as determined by the Navy.
Court filings say the photos were clear enough that they reveal classified details about the submarine that could be of use to foreign governments, such as the vessel’s maximum speed.
However, the Navy says the photos are classified “confidential,†which is the lowest tier of protection for classified information and is designated for information that could cause some damage to national security but not “serious†or “exceptionally grave†damage.
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/kristian-saucier-investigation-hillary-clinton-223646 (https://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/kristian-saucier-investigation-hillary-clinton-223646)
The worst thing he did was destroy the computer, phone, and memory card once he learned about the investigation. Another dumb mistake that earned him an unnecessary obstruction charge. This absolutely pales in comparison to the classified information in Hillary's server and her very obvious attempt to hide it. It's pretty much the definition of intent.
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So glad to hear this!
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So glad to hear this!
You will also be glad to hear that Trump saved a bundle of money by switching the WH limo to Gieco.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VizIrBQwA8w/R46sWyWraJI/AAAAAAAAA6M/b1eHk0Izxc4/s400/geicogecco.JPG)
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He did break the law and do something stupid and potentially harmful.
Yeah, I'm not sure what is good about this. Was the punishment extraordinary for the crime?
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Yeah, I'm not sure what is good about this. Was the punishment extraordinary for the crime?
There’s obviously a political component, related to the contrast of the way Hillary’s case was handled. However, in the end, I believe it’s about the discharge conditions and letting him get on with his life. As far as national security and classified breaches go, Saucier deserves the pardon a lot more than Manning deserved a commuted sentence. Just my 2¢.
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He made a mistake with the photos. He probably should have known better, but there was no determination of intent to distribute them. They were also not that damaging in relation to espionage value, as determined by the Navy.
Court filings say the photos were clear enough that they reveal classified details about the submarine that could be of use to foreign governments, such as the vessel’s maximum speed.
However, the Navy says the photos are classified “confidential,†which is the lowest tier of protection for classified information and is designated for information that could cause some damage to national security but not “serious†or “exceptionally grave†damage.
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/kristian-saucier-investigation-hillary-clinton-223646 (https://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/kristian-saucier-investigation-hillary-clinton-223646)
The worst thing he did was destroy the computer, phone, and memory card once he learned about the investigation. Another dumb mistake that earned him an unnecessary obstruction charge. This absolutely pales in comparison to the classified information in Hillary's server and her very obvious attempt to hide it. It's pretty much the definition of intent.
I understand all of that, but disagree that the worst he did was try to cover up. He did something stupid and criminal. As we know, intent does not matter here.
Some punishment was appropriate and the fact that Hillary is getting away with much worse does not change that.
All that being said, I'm glad he was pardoned and will be released with time served.
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Just more tangible proof......Trump is God!
Well, HE thinks he is.
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I understand all of that, but disagree that the worst he did was try to cover up. He did something stupid and criminal. As we know, intent does not matter here.
Some punishment was appropriate and the fact that Hillary is getting away with much worse does not change that.
All that being said, I'm glad he was pardoned and will be released with time served.
Saucier was sentenced during the 2016 campaign and served the full term. He was released last September.
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He was sentenced during the 2016 campaign and served the full term.
So, you agree with me.
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So, you agree with me.
Not exactly. I was just correcting the record as to whether he was still in prison. My contention about the part and was he should have gotten one before Arpaio did. That occurred in late August last year. If he was going to pardon Sheriff Joe, this kid deserved one, too, with less than one month left on his sentence.
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Not exactly. I was just correcting the record as to whether he was still in prison. My contention about the part and was he should have gotten one before Arpaio did. That occurred in late August last year. If he was going to pardon Sheriff Joe, this kid deserved one, too, with less than one month left on his sentence.
"Correcting the record"? I didn't say he was still in prison, I said he was "released" as in from house arrest with an ankle bracelet. If you would spend a little more time absorbing what I wrote rather than automatically assuming I was wrong and need you to correct me, we could dispense with a lot of this back and forth.
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Awesome.
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"Correcting the record"? I didn't say he was still in prison, I said he was "released" as in from house arrest with an ankle bracelet. If you would spend a little more time absorbing what I wrote rather than automatically assuming I was wrong and need you to correct me, we could dispense with a lot of this back and forth.
I'm not certain how else I was supposed to interpret 'released with time served.' To me, that has a clear implication he is still in jail and you made no reference to house arrest. :shrug:
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I'm not certain how else I was supposed to interpret 'released with time served.' To me, that has a clear implication he is still in jail and you made no reference to house arrest. :shrug:
I didn't need to reference it; the article did. You assumed for some reason that I didn't know that. :shrug:
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I didn't need to reference it; the article did. You assumed for some reason that I didn't know that. :shrug:
I have no way of divining what you understood from the article. People in halfway houses and under monitoring are released from prison, but I'm not going to split hairs. My point has been, I believe his pardon should have occurred before Arpaio's, as I said before.
Trump made a point of bringing him up in the campaign. I would not expect him to sign a pardon on day one. He had to be briefed on a number of issues, assemble his cabinet, and select a Supreme Court Justice. However, given the fact he made a point of bringing up Saucier's situation in the election, that should have been his first pardon, when one was considered.
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I have no way of divining what you understood from the article. ...
No, you didn't, but, nonetheless you just assumed I was wrong. That kind of myopia makes for difficult communication.
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No, you didn't, but, nonetheless you just assumed I was wrong. That kind of myopia makes for difficult communication.
A forum of typed words with indirect communication makes it difficult. In this type of discussion, I can only go by my understanding of words as typed. I'm not going to apologize for a literal interpretation of 'released,' as it pertains to someone convicted.
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A forum of typed words with indirect communication makes it difficult. In this type of discussion, I can only go by my understanding of words as typed. I'm not going to apologize for a literal interpretation of 'released,' as it pertains to someone convicted.
Hey, if you don't want to get it, you won't get it. :shrug:
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Hey, if you don't want to get it, you won't get it. :shrug:
No, I get it. You said released, but meant free from monitoring, but it's my fault you weren't clear. Understood.
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I don't get why people are happy? He took images of a classified area and tried to destroy all evidence of it.
Ofcourse it was probably an innocent objective from him, but law is law and at the end of the day those laws are in place to stop spies etc which he could well have been.
That said, he made his mistake and paid for his crimes, so hopefully he moves on with his life and things work out for him.
But he HAD to pay for his crimes, otherwise if he didn't every tom, dick and harry would start to take pictures of classified material/weapons etc and have a precedent of getting away with it.
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I don't get why people are happy? He took images of a classified area and tried to destroy all evidence of it.
Ofcourse it was probably an innocent objective from him, but law is law and at the end of the day those laws are in place to stop spies etc which he could well have been.
That said, he made his mistake and paid for his crimes, so hopefully he moves on with his life and things work out for him.
But he HAD to pay for his crimes, otherwise if he didn't every tom, dick and harry would start to take pictures of classified material/weapons etc and have a precedent of getting away with it.
I'm with you. I remember young officers' careers being ruined after losing a confidential radio call signs booklet in the field. We hung it around our necks, and the "necklace" was prone to break during field exercises. It had approximately the same dimensions as a pack of cigarettes. It became a reflex reaction, checking every half hour to make it was securely on my person.
He was an E-6, not an inexperienced sailor. Heck, I was a platoon leader with three squad leaders who were "acting jacks", E-4s in an E-6 position.
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I'm with you. I remember young officers' careers being ruined after losing a confidential radio call signs booklet in the field. We hung it around our necks, and the "necklace" was prone to break during field exercises. It had approximately the same dimensions as a pack of cigarettes. It became a reflex reaction, checking every half hour to make it was securely on my person.
He was an E-6, not an inexperienced sailor. Heck, I was a platoon leader with three squad leaders who were "acting jacks", E-4s in an E-6 position.
Exactly.
My dad was in the parachute regiment of the British military and he has told me even making his bed "wrong" would get him disciplined. never mind taking photos of a classified weapon/material/area.
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Exactly.
My dad was in the parachute regiment of the British military and he has told me even making his bed "wrong" would get him disciplined. never mind taking photos of a classified weapon/material/area.
The good old days...I have fond memories of a joint field exercise when I was stationed in Germany. We were invited to join the British officers for dinner: white tablecloths, gin and tonics before, during, and after dinner.
During REFORGER '77, we came across another British unit. A young trooper saw my baseball cap with jump wings, and he insisted I trade it for his field jacket. I objected a couple of times before finally assenting to the trade. The day before, I traded for a Belgian army beret, so it wasn't like I had no other headgear.
A few weeks later, I made the mistake of wearing the beret with our Battalion Commander in the area. lol
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I don't get why people are happy? He took images of a classified area and tried to destroy all evidence of it.
Ofcourse it was probably an innocent objective from him, but law is law and at the end of the day those laws are in place to stop spies etc which he could well have been.
That said, he made his mistake and paid for his crimes, so hopefully he moves on with his life and things work out for him.
But he HAD to pay for his crimes, otherwise if he didn't every tom, dick and harry would start to take pictures of classified material/weapons etc and have a precedent of getting away with it.
Mostly, it has to do with a comparison and contrast around the circumstances of Hillary's situation. Yes, what he did was wrong and he compounded it with the destruction of the devices. Howerver, the actions of Mrs. Clinton were deemed to have not been done with intent. That's absurd, given what we know about her private server and the handling of it.
People are generally tired of seeing the Clintons and people around them skate on blatant violations of national security, while others are punished for lesser offenses. This young man served jail time, while Sandy Berger only had his clearance revoked and called 'sloppy.' The man was caught red handed stealing documents from the National Archive and attempting to destroy them, for crying out loud - and nothing.
As far as I'm concerned, Jeffrey Sterling should be pardoned, as well. If ever someone deserved whistleblower protection for releasing information, it's him.
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I don't get why people are happy? He took images of a classified area and tried to destroy all evidence of it.
Ofcourse it was probably an innocent objective from him, but law is law and at the end of the day those laws are in place to stop spies etc which he could well have been.
That said, he made his mistake and paid for his crimes, so hopefully he moves on with his life and things work out for him.
But he HAD to pay for his crimes, otherwise if he didn't every tom, dick and harry would start to take pictures of classified material/weapons etc and have a precedent of getting away with it.
Well said.
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Now he needs to work on getting his discharge upgraded.
@txradioguy
It’s a common misconception that discharges can be upgraded. About the only way they can be upgraded is if a person can demonstrate that the service made an error in the discharge that was given. In this case, I don’t see any way of that happening.
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@txradioguy
It’s a common misconception that discharges can be upgraded. About the only way they can be upgraded is if a person can demonstrate that the service made an error in the discharge that was given. In this case, I don’t see any way of that happening.
I've seen a few instances where it happened.
Believe it or not former Sergeant Major of The Army Gene McKinney got discharge upgraded and his last highest rank (E-9) back as well. Though it was done very very quietly.
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... Howerver, the actions of Mrs. Clinton were deemed to have not been done with intent.
That is a complete and total crock.
I held a Secret Clearance, and had it drilled into my head that it was very serious business. As in be careful with the Germans down town. Etc.
Professors, the military and my father drilled thngs into me, like:
"You can delegate authority but you can't delegate responsibility" and
"You are responsible for what you know, and what you should know."
I government these days (and increasingly in society too), neither of those are enforced.
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That is a complete and total crock.
I held a Secret Clearance, and had it drilled into my head that it was very serious business. As in be careful with the Germans down town. Etc.
Professors, the military and my father drilled thngs into me, like:
"You can delegate authority but you can't delegate responsibility" and
"You are responsible for what you know, and what you should know."
I government these days (and increasingly in society too), neither of those are enforced.
I had a NATO TS clearance, received it about the same time that Warren Zevon recorded the song “Lawyers, Guns, & Money.†I was thinking about that song when, during a 3 month TDY in Northern Germany, I went home with a waitress...she wasn’t with the Russians, thankfully. Lol
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Navy sailor pardoned by Trump had pleaded case on 'Fox and Friends'
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/377774-navy-sailor-pardoned-by-trump-had-pleaded-case-on-fox-and-friends (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/377774-navy-sailor-pardoned-by-trump-had-pleaded-case-on-fox-and-friends)
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That is a complete and total crock.
It is. That was the conclusion drawn by Comey and the FBI - it certainly isn't my opinion.
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That is a complete and total crock.
I held a Secret Clearance, and had it drilled into my head that it was very serious business. As in be careful with the Germans down town. Etc.
Professors, the military and my father drilled thngs into me, like:
"You can delegate authority but you can't delegate responsibility" and
"You are responsible for what you know, and what you should know."
I government these days (and increasingly in society too), neither of those are enforced.
I think you're right. The military may be the only segment of society left that takes these issues seriously and holds people to account.
I don't think the Obama administration, including Hillary Clinton, was more corrupt than the one before it and certainly not more than the current set. There have been email issues in the Bush, Obama, and Trump White Houses; either a lot of people should be in jail or no one should. There have clearly been major issues at all govt levels in dealing with technology, much like in society.
It looks like the military is the only group that expects people to take tech security seriously.
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I had a NATO TS clearance, received it about the same time that Warren Zevon recorded the song “Lawyers, Guns, & Money.†I was thinking about that song when, during a 3 month TDY in Northern Germany, I went home with a waitress...she wasn’t with the Russians, thankfully. Lol
Mine was TS Crypto. (I don't think they went much beyond that at the time but not sure about it.) I can tell you this, if I had done 1/100th of what Hillary has done I would still be trying to dig may way out from under Leavenworth.
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Mine was TS Crypto. (I don't think they went much beyond that at the time but not sure about it.) I can tell you this, if I had done 1/100th of what Hillary has done I would still be trying to dig may way out from under Leavenworth.
@Bigun
That's the same one my dad had in the USAF. He was a Morse Code Intercept Operator.
They went back and talked to people down to his first grade teacher.
When he got out in 1965 he couldn't leave the U.S. for months and for 12 months after he got out if he had required surgery with general anesthesia it would have required a Major or higher to be in the OR.