The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: SirLinksALot on July 18, 2016, 09:20:24 pm
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SOURCE: CNN
URL: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/politics/rnc-procedural-votes-rules-committee/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/politics/rnc-procedural-votes-rules-committee/)
By Tal Kopan and Tom LoBianco, CNN
Cleveland (CNN)Loud cries of protest broke out on the floor of the Republican National Convention Monday after GOP officials dismissed a last-ditch effort by anti-Donald Trump groups to force an embarrassing protest vote against the RNC and the presumptive presidential nominee.
A group of anti-Trump delegates submitted signatures to try to force a vote on the rules of the convention -- a procedure normally done quietly at the start of each convention.
The rules were adopted by voice vote shortly after 4 p.m., then after frantic protests, a second voice vote was taken as Trump opponents shouted repeatedly for a roll call vote. The convention chairman then said there were not enough signatures to force the roll call.
Opponents of the rules package were backed by Ted Cruz allies including Virginia's Ken Cuccinelli and Utah Sen. Mike Lee. They have been fighting to change the procedures for the 2020 presidential election, including trying to close primaries and caucuses from non-Republicans. Such a move would presumably help a party favorite like Cruz, who lose to the outsider Trump this year.
Lee told CNN's Dana Bash the protest wasn't about sour grapes.
"No, absolutely not, this is about the rules of the convention," Lee said, as protesters shouted around him. "This is about the future of the party... This is not about Donald Trump, this is about having a good, fair rules process.
"We are always looking, as conservatives, to make sure that our rules are good to make sure we have good candidates in the future. I would like to have conservative candidates in the future. This is not about this year, it's not about any one year," he said.
Lee said the fight doesn't demonstrate the party is divided.
CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE VIDEO AND THE REST
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They did not fail. They had enough signatures.
The RNC flat out lied and violated its own rules.
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They did not fail. They had enough signatures.
The RNC flat out lied and violated its own rules.
Every strong armed move makes it more likely that Trump delegates will abstain and deny him the required number of delegates to secure the nomination.
This ain't like pulling people into Trump Towers and having them look across the table of Trump's version of Luca Brasi so Trump can make that "good deal".
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A good time for Cruz to say he won't speak to a convention that violates its own rules
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"Such a move would presumably help a party favorite like Cruz, who lose to the outsider Trump this year."
Bullshat. Its exactly the other way around.
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They did not fail. They had enough signatures.
The RNC flat out lied and violated its own rules.
Was the above the beginning of a new fiction novel? Because the ROAR of the Trump supporters yelling AYE caused fear in the eyes of some behind Lee when they realized just how tiny the anti-Trump movement really was. It was so loud the audio system had a hard time handling it.
I'm looking forward to seeing a screen grab gif of the look on the Anti's faces when they heard the Aye Roar.
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Every strong armed move makes it more likely that Trump delegates will abstain and deny him the required number of delegates to secure the nomination.
Even if that was done, the RNC will simply 'deem' that Trump has all the delegates needed.
Welcome to what a coup looks like in the political sense.
Now we have to make sure that the GOP is destroyed and all Conservatives abandon it for the Constitution or Libertarian Parties if we want our ideology to survive at all and not be corrupted into NYC Trump Liberalism.
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So what's next?
Is Trump (or anyone else) going to be speaking to a 1/2 to 2/3's empty hall?
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So what's next?
Is Trump (or anyone else) going to be speaking to a 1/2 to 2/3's empty hall?
It would be a good time for Ted Cruz to announce he won't speak to a convention that violates its own rules.
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Even if that was done, the RNC will simply 'deem' that Trump has all the delegates needed.
Welcome to what a coup looks like in the political sense.
Now we have to make sure that the GOP is destroyed and all Conservatives abandon it for the Constitution or Libertarian Parties if we want our ideology to survive at all and not be corrupted into NYC Trump Liberalism.
A political coup is exactly what happened! It doesn't matter if we abandon the GOP and vote for the Constitution or Libertarian Parties -- I am pretty darn sure those votes won't be counted!!! Why would they??
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delegates are reporting that they are being cornered and berated and coerced into withdrawing their signatures
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delegates are reporting that they are being cornered and berated and coerced into withdrawing their signatures
That's what will be the norm under Il Douche, and his Squadrisi are happy to carry out the thuggishness.
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delegates are reporting that they are being cornered and berated and coerced into withdrawing their signatures
Wow!
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Wow!
Which is what you get when your campaign is run by a Russian mob consigliere.
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A good time for Cruz to say he won't speak to a convention that violates its own rules
I was just going to say that too. It would show how divided the party really is.
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delegates are reporting that they are being cornered and berated and coerced into withdrawing their signatures
The same tactics as thugs and terrorists.
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delegates are reporting that they are being cornered and berated and coerced into withdrawing their signatures
Were they conered AND berated...or berated and then placed in a corner. Or were they coerced into a corner with berating, or cornered with coercion and THEN berated. Although, there's really not a lot of corners in the building, so I'm guessing the cornering was more "rounding", in which case the berating doesn't seem quite so bad.
Seriously, they got a talking to on the floor of a political convention...that's democracy at its grass roots level. They did a voice vote and got blown away as they were a tiny minority disrupting everyone else's work by being obnoxious, childish and petulant. They got to put their issue forward, their was a parliamentary voice vote, and they lost. That's how democracy on the floor works in our Republic.
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Were they conered AND berated...or berated and then placed in a corner. Or were they coerced into a corner with berating, or cornered with coercion and THEN berated. Although, there's really not a lot of corners in the building, so I'm guessing the cornering was more "rounding", in which case the berating doesn't seem quite so bad.
Seriously, they got a talking to on the floor of a political convention...that's democracy at its grass roots level. They did a voice vote and got blown away as they were a tiny minority disrupting everyone else's work by being obnoxious, childish and petulant. They got to put their issue forward, their was a parliamentary voice vote, and they lost. That's how democracy on the floor works in our Republic.
You're so orgasmically tied to your political savior that you cannot even comprehend that what was just done with that voice vote was to take any and all power the grassroots would have had in terms of influencing the rules for the GOP (not just for Trump), and put it into the sole power and authority of Priebus and Trump, making the Establishment not only stronger - but invincible.
Manafort and Trump made the deal to ensure the entrenchment of the Ruling Class Oligarchy was permanent. Perhaps McConnell will address it during his prime time speech to his subjects.
And you have the audacity to say that this is how 'Democracy on the floor works in "our" Republic"??????
Wrong, that's how corruption and despotism operates in your tyranny.
And how proud you are.
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put it into the sole power and authority of Priebus and Trump, making the Establishment not only stronger - but invincible.
Manafort and Trump made the deal to ensure the entrenchment of the Ruling Class Oligarchy was permanent. Perhaps McConnell will address it during his prime time speech to his subjects.
And you have the audacity to say that this is how 'Democracy on the floor works in "our" Republic"??????
Wrong, that's how corruption and despotism operates in your tyranny.
Nailed it.
Sad times.
I think half of Trump supporters are totally clueless about what they've done.
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It would be a good time for Ted Cruz to announce he won't speak to a convention that violates its own rules.
He needs to really think of what his next move is. Does he stick with the party? Does he quit the Senate?? Does he gear up to run 3rd party in 2020? I don't think even Cruz saw this one coming.
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You're so orgasmically tied to your political savior that you cannot even comprehend that what was just done with that voice vote was to take any and all power the grassroots would have had in terms of influencing the rules for the GOP (not just for Trump), and put it into the sole power and authority of Priebus and Trump, making the Establishment not only stronger - but invincible.
Manafort and Trump made the deal to ensure the entrenchment of the Ruling Class Oligarchy was permanent. Perhaps McConnell will address it during his prime time speech to his subjects.
And you have the audacity to say that this is how 'Democracy on the floor works in "our" Republic"??????
Wrong, that's how corruption and despotism operates in your tyranny.
And how proud you are.
:amen:
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Nailed it.
Sad times.
I think half of Trump supporters are totally clueless about what they've done.
Even if they do, they don't care.
This is about vengeance and punishment and sating their stoked grievances on whom they blame for all ills, and they are happy to grow government or empower a dictator to do it, as long as Trump is THEIR dictator.
Or as one member here put it: 'their Lucifer'.
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A political coup is exactly what happened! It doesn't matter if we abandon the GOP and vote for the Constitution or Libertarian Parties -- I am pretty darn sure those votes won't be counted!!! Why would they??
I believe the proper term is "putsch."
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It would be a good time for Ted Cruz to announce he won't speak to a convention that violates its own rules.
He can't do it!
A 3rd party candidate doesn't have a chance. All a 3rd party candidate can do is act as a spoiler, or a protest vote. What Sen Cruz can do is give a speech explaining how he has always fought the entrenched interests and fights for conservatism. In 2020 he runs again and we fight even harder for him.
All the strong arm tactics did was reconfirm the importance of not voting for Trump regardless of who the other party nominates.
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He can't do it!
A 3rd party candidate doesn't have a chance. All a 3rd party candidate can do is act as a spoiler, or a protest vote. What Sen Cruz can do is give a speech explaining how he has always fought the entrenched interests and fights for conservatism. In 2020 he runs again and we fight even harder for him.
All the strong arm tactics did was reconfirm the importance of not voting for Trump regardless of who the other party nominates.
I guess you are not a student of political history. In 1860, there was a third party in only its second election cycle. They had a hard time unifying around a single candidate until they eventually settled on a young lawyer from Illinois who went on the win the election. Tell Abe Lincoln that third parties can't win.
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He can't do it!
A 3rd party candidate doesn't have a chance. All a 3rd party candidate can do is act as a spoiler, or a protest vote. What Sen Cruz can do is give a speech explaining how he has always fought the entrenched interests and fights for conservatism. In 2020 he runs again and we fight even harder for him.
All the strong arm tactics did was reconfirm the importance of not voting for Trump regardless of who the other party nominates.
If you keep practicing insanity, then all one ever achieves is becoming it's codependent and one can never be free of it's enslavement.
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Union thugs showing up at your door with clubs and one of them is holding your child who was playing in the front yard and they hand you the union voting slip, "Nice family you got here..."
"That's just grassroots democracy in action." They say as they leave and you are hiding in a closet clutching your children, afraid.
Seriously, they got a talking to on the floor of a political convention...that's democracy at its grass roots level.
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I guess you are not a student of political history. In 1860, there was a third party in only its second election cycle. They had a hard time unifying around a single candidate until they eventually settled on a young lawyer from Illinois who went on the win the election. Tell Abe Lincoln that third parties can't win.
For a third party to be successful you need to elect a majority of Congressmen. The rules to get on the ballots are tough, if not near impossible. You either convert the Pubs, or Rats, to your view or you stand on the outside complaining.
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If you keep practicing insanity, then all one ever achieves is becoming it's codependent and one can never be free of it's enslavement.
Not true. You do what the conservatives are doing. You fight to bend the rules to support your cause and if that fails you with hold your support. Once you have enough like minded people holding office you fight as a voting block. Conservatives forced out Boehner and kept Ryan from bringing up gun control.
I won't be voting for Trump, but I will vote for any conservatives on my ballot. I won't contribute to Trump, or the GOP, but I will send contributions to conservatives. I accept that we have suffered a terrible defeat, but as long as I am able I will fight on.
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Not true. You do what the conservatives are doing. You fight to bend the rules to support your cause and if that fails you with hold your support. Once you have enough like minded people holding office you fight as a voting block. Conservatives forced out Boehner and kept Ryan from bringing up gun control.
Respectfully, I'm done with hope in olive branch petitions.
Conservatives are by and large surrendering to where they see the seig-heiling mob marching and are led to think they only way they have relevance is to work from within a corrupted party and oligarchy that just a few hours ago demonstrated the absurdity of thought that Conservatives will ever have a voice in the GOP.
It's time for a clean separation and independence from the Beast at Mordor on the Potomac, including her corrupted demon children.
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For a third party to be successful you need to elect a majority of Congressmen. The rules to get on the ballots are tough, if not near impossible. You either convert the Pubs, or Rats, to your view or you stand on the outside complaining.
Oh baloney! If that were true then the GOP should have never won anything since the GOP hasn't had a majority until recent history. But given that, if everyone against Trump banded together, there might be a chance for someone other than Trump or Clinton. Or cling on to Trump or Clinton.
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You're so orgasmically tied to your political savior that you cannot even comprehend that what was just done with that voice vote was to take any and all power the grassroots would have had in terms of influencing the rules for the GOP (not just for Trump), and put it into the sole power and authority of Priebus and Trump, making the Establishment not only stronger - but invincible.
Manafort and Trump made the deal to ensure the entrenchment of the Ruling Class Oligarchy was permanent. Perhaps McConnell will address it during his prime time speech to his subjects.
And you have the audacity to say that this is how 'Democracy on the floor works in "our" Republic"??????
Wrong, that's how corruption and despotism operates in your tyranny.
And how proud you are.
No, the Trump movement IS the grassroots. The move to change the rules failed because the vast majority of delegates saw it as an idiotic attempt to disrupt the nomination process. And they were right. The "grass roots" is behind our nominee...you folks are just melting down because the 90% of delegates aren't letting the 10% take over and make silly new rules.
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No, the Trump movement IS the grassroots. The move to change the rules failed because the vast majority of delegates saw it as an idiotic attempt to disrupt the nomination process. And they were right. The "grass roots" is behind our nominee...you folks are just melting down because the 90% of delegates aren't letting the 10% take over and make silly new rules.
Personal attacks have been deleted by Mod1. You know the rules.
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No, the Trump movement are a bunch of punishment-seeking fascists.
And you are clueless as to what that voice vote was all about, but I wouldn't expect a paid shill for the Trump movement to say anything else.
I think most of the Trump delegates had no idea what it was about. I don't think that the majority of them realize they were pushing for fascism. They are just useful idiots.
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Quite often, the surest sign of a budding fascist movement is its tendency to proclaim others as tyrants, useful idiots, and as a "threat" to traditional values. It's a playbook right out of Mein Kampf, Leninist tactics and yes...Mussolini. Cry wolf about the other faction and resort to tactics that undermine democratic values....like stealing delegates through rule technicalities. Invars tactics are akin to the ways in which Goebels would seek to manipulate Germans into seeing the Nazis as victims of unfair dealings and thuggery. So if any such comparisons are to be made....there you have it.
But that said, any such drawing of parallels is absurd...it's little more than shallow hyperbolism and I engage in it above to make that point. So again, anyone who...in seriousness...draws an analogy between any of our modern nominees and fascism, simply has no understanding of history OR politics.
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You can watch it for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxP6Nqtj3YI
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Quite often, the surest sign of a budding fascist movement is its tendency to proclaim others as tyrants, useful idiots, and as a "threat" to traditional values. It's a playbook right out of Mein Kampf, Leninist tactics and yes...Mussolini. Cry wolf about the other faction and resort to tactics that undermine democratic values....like stealing delegates through rule technicalities. Invars tactics are akin to the ways in which Goebels would seek to manipulate Germans into seeing the Nazis as victims of unfair dealings and thuggery. So if any such comparisons are to be made....there you have it.
You are projecting as usual. Trump and your cabal has done all that and more.
I'm not pushing any strong man leader that I declare is going to 'make the country great again' (Mein Kampf); whom has demonstrated both ignorance and contempt for the Constitution, while both he and his thug mobs of fanatics are engaged in demagoguery, talk of punishment and silencing dissent both in the public and private square.
But it's typical that the very people pointing out the fruits and actions of such tyranny are declared to be such by the very people pushing for a Fascist and punishment in the name of making the state safe again.
You people were the ones declaring us traitors and enemies of the state because we refused to bend the knee to your king presumptive. That makes you and your ilk the very fascists supporting a wannabe dictator you think we are.
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You are projecting as usual. Trump and your cabal has done all that and more.
I'm not pushing any strong man leader that I declare is going to 'make the country great again' (Mein Kampf); whom has demonstrated both ignorance and contempt for the Constitution, while both he and his thug mobs of fanatics are engaged in demagoguery, talk of punishment and silencing dissent both in the public and private square.
But it's typical that the very people pointing out the fruits and actions of such tyranny are declared to be such by the very people pushing for a Fascist and punishment in the name of making the state safe again.
You people were the ones declaring us traitors and enemies of the state because we refused to bend the knee to your king presumptive. That makes you and your ilk the very fascists supporting a wannabe dictator you think we are.
Who here has called you a traitor or an enemy of the state? Please link the post, because I'd love to read it.
Again, please lay out when and where you've experienced real tyranny or seen Fascism in action...or are you making the assertion on the basis of your extensive "book learnin'" :silly:
For the record, Ronald Reagan was big on "making America great again" so I guess you'll have to add him to your list of fascists and fascist supporters. So how long has your list gotten...Reagan, Limbaugh, Hannity, Pence, Sessions, Ryan...I don't think I have time to list everyone in your Invar's Fascist Constitution Hater's club. Perhaps you could provide the full list at your convenience. Of course, you'll have to update it every day as it seems to grow ever longer.
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Again, please lay out when and where you've experienced real tyranny or seen Fascism in action...
I lived in the slums of a third world hellhole in 2012 and watched brethren I served get beaten to death with bricks, rocks and clubs. I've witnessed REAL tyranny and I've seen REAL Fascism. Not the kind you witness while marching in an armored column under arms - but in the midst of a people who are targets of persecution and live in a poverty you cannot wrap your mind around.
So don't go lecturing me on what tyranny or fascism looks, smells, and tastes like. I've seen it first hand. I've heard it secondhand all my life from relatives who lived under it in the old country.
You on the other hand, are just a political operative, a party hack who projects that which you yourself are.
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No, the Trump movement IS the grassroots. The move to change the rules failed because the vast majority of delegates saw it as an idiotic attempt to disrupt the nomination process. And they were right. The "grass roots" is behind our nominee...you folks are just melting down because the 90% of delegates aren't letting the 10% take over and make silly new rules.
That's completely untrue, of course.
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Quite often, the surest sign of a budding fascist movement is its tendency to proclaim others as tyrants, useful idiots, and as a "threat" to traditional values. It's a playbook right out of Mein Kampf, Leninist tactics and yes...Mussolini. Cry wolf about the other faction and resort to tactics that undermine democratic values....like stealing delegates through rule technicalities. Invars tactics are akin to the ways in which Goebels would seek to manipulate Germans into seeing the Nazis as victims of unfair dealings and thuggery. So if any such comparisons are to be made....there you have it.
But that said, any such drawing of parallels is absurd...it's little more than shallow hyperbolism and I engage in it above to make that point. So again, anyone who...in seriousness...draws an analogy between any of our modern nominees and fascism, simply has no understanding of history OR politics.
Wow. The psychological projection in your post is almost unbelievable.
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You can watch it for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxP6Nqtj3YI
I have to say, after watching this, I couldn't clearly detect whether it was the "Ayes" or the "Nays" that were the loudest.
It seemed very close.
Others have stated one way or the other, but I couldn't tell.
I wonder, which 9 states petitioned and which 3 backed out?
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That's completely untrue, of course.
Really? Then explain to us why when we strip off the veneer of the few Cruz supporters showing a public face of the Republican Against Trump operation you see BUSH, Romney, Silicone Valley CEO's and RINO PACS?
FACT: All of the leadership of the anti-Trump operation is for for open borders and cheap labor.
FACT: Romney, Bush, Liberal CEOS of Silicon Valley, DC Insider PACS, etc are not Grass Roots.
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I have to say, after watching this, I couldn't clearly detect whether it was the "Ayes" or the "Nays" that were the loudest.
It seemed very close.
Others have stated one way or the other, but I couldn't tell.
I wonder, which 9 states petitioned and which 3 backed out?
“Sahil Kapur; Verified account ;
;@sahilkapur
RNC spox tells me DC, MN, ME, IA dropped off before the rules vote; AK never submitted, and it was WA, UT, VA, WY, CO ultimately pushing it.”
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I have to say, after watching this, I couldn't clearly detect whether it was the "Ayes" or the "Nays" that were the loudest.
It seemed very close.
Others have stated one way or the other, but I couldn't tell.
I wonder, which 9 states petitioned and which 3 backed out?
Me either, it should have went to division or roll call at least.
Iowa was supposed one of the back out states, but nobody from the delegation said they backed out. So did they?
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I lived in the slums of a third world hellhole in 2012 and watched brethren I served get beaten to death with bricks, rocks and clubs. I've witnessed REAL tyranny and I've seen REAL Fascism. Not the kind you witness while marching in an armored column under arms - but in the midst of a people who are targets of persecution and live in a poverty you cannot wrap your mind around.
So don't go lecturing me on what tyranny or fascism looks, smells, and tastes like. I've seen it first hand. I've heard it secondhand all my life from relatives who lived under it in the old country.
You on the other hand, are just a political operative, a party hack who projects that which you yourself are.
And who here has been "beaten with bricks" and assaulted? The answer is Trump supporters. So using your criteria, why are you blaming the victims?
For the record, I spent months in Safwan Iraq feeding and protecting Shiite victims of Saddam's tyranny. Not in an armored column (at least not after the fighting stopped) but in and among the Iraqi refugees. Unlike you, I would never devalue your own personal experience, but clearly it bears nothing in common with anything Trump. Worse, your shallow misperceptions about the nature of fascism in Germany and Italy render your conclusions ludicrous.
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Quote from: INVAR on Today at 02:11:29 AM
I lived in the slums of a third world hellhole in 2012 and watched brethren I served get beaten to death with bricks, rocks and clubs. I've witnessed REAL tyranny and I've seen REAL Fascism. Not the kind you witness while marching in an armored column under arms - but in the midst of a people who are targets of persecution and live in a poverty you cannot wrap your mind around.
So don't go lecturing me on what tyranny or fascism looks, smells, and tastes like. I've seen it first hand. I've heard it secondhand all my life from relatives who lived under it in the old country.
You on the other hand, are just a political operative, a party hack who projects that which you yourself are.
And who here has been "beaten with bricks" and assaulted?
Why must you lie, bear false witness and misrepresent what I clearly stated and wrote above? I didn't suggest or state that anyone on this board or Trump supporters were being beaten to death with rocks and sticks. Yet you spun that around to put your own political victimhood onus upon it.
Pathetic.
For the record, I can care less where you were or what you supposedly did. I have nothing to prove to you, and I find it telling that you have to brag about your own charity efforts as some badge of honor you want everyone to recognize.
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Quote from: INVAR on Today at 02:11:29 AM
I lived in the slums of a third world hellhole in 2012 and watched brethren I served get beaten to death with bricks, rocks and clubs. I've witnessed REAL tyranny and I've seen REAL Fascism. Not the kind you witness while marching in an armored column under arms - but in the midst of a people who are targets of persecution and live in a poverty you cannot wrap your mind around.
So don't go lecturing me on what tyranny or fascism looks, smells, and tastes like. I've seen it first hand. I've heard it secondhand all my life from relatives who lived under it in the old country.
You on the other hand, are just a political operative, a party hack who projects that which you yourself are.
Why must you lie, bear false witness and misrepresent what I clearly stated and wrote above? I didn't suggest or state that anyone on this board or Trump supporters were being beaten to death with rocks and sticks. Yet you spun that around to put your own political victimhood onus upon it.
Pathetic.
For the record, I can care less where you were or what you supposedly did. I have nothing to prove to you, and I find it telling that you have to brag about your own charity efforts as some badge of honor you want everyone to recognize.
I laid out my credentials for what I know of fascism and tyranny, and what I've experienced of it...as that is the topic. Further, you need to work on reading comprehension, as I did not assert that you thought someone on the board was "bricked". What I did say was that your invocations of tyrannical behavior were in no way manifesting here in the U.S. and in particular were not being initiated in any way from Trump supporters. Thus your allusion to "brickings" bears no comparison to what we have today in our political spectrum.
I know you want to seem a martyr...the whole voice in the wilderness opposing a monstrous tyrant...but its ludicrous, and makes you look absurd. It so far off from reality, that it puts in you in some sort of fantasy land...which does explain why you are in the Nevertrump movement.
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I don't think you fluffed out your feathers and puffed your chest out enough yet for everyone to notice how brilliant and magnanimous you are in your own mind.
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I don't think you fluffed out your feathers and puffed your chest out enough yet for everyone to notice how brilliant and magnanimous you are in your own mind.
Who needs fluffing when I've got you for contrast?