The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on September 24, 2016, 01:35:51 pm

Title: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: mystery-ak on September 24, 2016, 01:35:51 pm
 By Alexander Bolton - 09/23/16 08:33 PM EDT

Sen. Ted Cruz surprised and dismayed many conservatives Friday when he announced his support for Donald Trump. It was a move that, only a short while before, one prominent Cruz ally had said would make no sense.

Cruz positioned himself during the Republican National Convention in Cleveland in July as the rare politician who would put principle ahead of party loyalty, pointedly refusing to endorse Trump during a primetime speech.

Sources familiar with Cruz’s thinking say he now acknowledges he underestimated the intensity of the negative backlash that would ensue.

The end of his speech could barely be heard above the clamor of boos. Establishment Republicans quickly piled on, arguing that Cruz’s has few friends in Washington because of his overweening ambition.

But Cruz allies countered that he left Cleveland well positioned to run as a principled conservative in the 2020 Republican presidential primary — assuming Hillary Clinton would beat Trump in November.

Amanda Carpenter, a former advisor to Cruz, tweeted on Wednesday “it would be nuts for Cruz to blow up the convention only to endorse Trump in the end.”

She argued he should stick with his position since he’d already taken a political hit for it.

But Cruz said Friday he changed his mind for two reasons: He promised last year to support the party nominee, and he considers Trump better than Clinton, despite his own policy and personal differences with the GOP nominee.

“By any measure Hillary Clinton is wholly unacceptable — that’s why I have always been #NeverHillary,” he wrote on Facebook.

Conservative activists and Republican strategists think there are several other factors at play.

They believe that Cruz’s continued estrangement from Trump and his supporters would have been a liability in the freshman senator’s 2018 reelection race — and in any future presidential bid.

“Some of his critics might say it’s a little opportunistic now that Trump looks like he’s doing better in the polls than when he gave his speech at the convention. It’s a little self-serving, some of his critics might say,” said Chip Saltsman, a GOP strategist who advised former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee’s (R) presidential campaign.

“What’s changed? The polls?” he said.

A spokeswoman for Cruz did not respond to a request for comment.

At the time of the convention, Trump looked like a long shot to defeat Clinton. But after shaking up his campaign in August — Paul Manafort was pushed out as campaign chairman, and Breitbart News executive Stephen Bannon and GOP strategist Kellyanne Conway were brought in — Trump gained ground in the polls.

Meanwhile, even Democrats acknowledge that Clinton’s campaign lost momentum. Her near collapse during a 9/11 memorial event in New York prompted new questions about her health and fueled suspicions that she has not been transparent with the public.

Now Trump is looking like a more viable candidate, even his strongest Republican critics concede.

“It’s an acknowledgement and public recognition on Cruz’s part that Trump is the nominee of the party and realistically Trump’s probably going to win this fall,” said Judson Phillips, the founder of Tea Party Nation, who served as a Cruz surrogate during the presidential primary.

“At this point I’d put money on Trump winning. If you asked me a month ago, I would have predicted Hillary in a landslide but she continues to implode,” he added. “I’m a little shocked. Trump has become a fairly disciplined candidate.”

Republican strategists say the primary showed there’s a large chunk of not particularly ideological voters in the party who are fiercely loyal to Trump. That’s true in Texas, which Cruz carried easily in the primary, as well as in other parts of the country.

Cruz can’t afford to alienate them when he’s up for reelection in 2018.

“I think he’s worried about his primary,” said a Senate Republican adviser.

“Trump obviously has a pretty serious brand image in the state of Texas among primary voters. The last thing Cruz wants to do is risk his seat in the Senate because he doesn’t say something nice about Trump at the end of the race,” the adviser added.

Cruz’s critics in the party establishment, including major donors, have urged House Homeland Security Chairman Michael McCaul (R-Texas), the second-richest member of Congress, to challenge Cruz in two years.

McCaul criticized Cruz on Tuesday for breaking his promise to support the party’s nominee.

“I think what he did at the convention turned off a lot of people,” McCaul told conservative radio host Laura Ingraham. “He pledged to support [the nominee.] He broke his word.”

Earlier this month, Senate Republican Whip John Cornyn, the senior senator from Texas, declined to endorse Cruz ahead of the 2018 primary.

Cruz’s announcement elicited yowls of disappointment from conservatives in the Never Trump camp, which has shrunk significantly since Trump clinched the nomination.

Conservative talk-show host Glenn Beck declared Friday a “profoundly sad day for me,” adding that “disappointment doesn’t begin to describe” his feelings.

Quin Hillyer, a conservative columnist who participated in the Never Trump movement, said the endorsement was “a terrible mistake,” especially after Trump attacked Cruz’s family so personally during their contest.

“To endorse a man who not just once but at last twice terribly insulted your wife and multiple times accused your father of a heinous crime is to emasculate yourself,” he said.

Trump backers are still incensed about Cruz’s performance at the convention. But their animosity is more likely to fade now that Cruz has pledged his support.

Any damage caused to Cruz’s standing with conservative allies who remain staunchly opposed to Trump may be fleeting.

“I don’t think it will hurt him very much. The vast majority of Republicans have already gotten on board [with Trump,]” said Mike Farris, chancellor of Patrick Henry College and chairman of the Home School Legal Defense Association, another conservative leader who participated in the Never Trump movement.

In the end, activists and strategists believe Cruz made a simple calculation of potential future political advantages and costs.

“I think everything he does is maybe not entirely motivated by future elections but certainly influenced by future elections,” Farris said. “It’s not wrong. He’s just counted the costs and decided he’d rather do this.”

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/297571-why-cruz-flipped-on-trump
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: sinkspur on September 24, 2016, 01:43:46 pm
Bottom line:  Cruz reveals that, when the chips are down, he is an unprincipled opportunist who throws his own wife and father under the bus to save his political hide.

"You'll never get laid again, Ted.  Ever."

(https://tribzap2it.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/ted-cruz-heidi-cruz-getty.jpg?w=500)
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Blizzardnh on September 24, 2016, 01:57:08 pm
Bottom line:  Cruz reveals that, when the chips are down, he is an unprincipled opportunist who throws his own wife and father under the bus to save his political hide.

"You'll never get laid again, Ted.  Ever."

(https://tribzap2it.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/ted-cruz-heidi-cruz-getty.jpg?w=500)
I think its quite simple , he knows how dangerous cankles would be. And you should be able to get over any battles that are fought during a primary fight.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: sinkspur on September 24, 2016, 02:01:23 pm
I think its quite simple , he knows how dangerous cankles would be. And you should be able to get over any battles that are fought during a primary fight.

You're right, if you're nothing but a naked political opportunist.  But if you're a normal human being, you don't allow your closest relations to be humiliated and insulted and then crawl back to the cretin who humiliated them with no public apology. 

Some things are more important than politics.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Blizzardnh on September 24, 2016, 02:05:52 pm
You're right, if you're nothing but a naked political opportunist.  But if you're a normal human being, you don't allow your closest relations to be humiliated and insulted and then crawl back to the cretin who humiliated them with no public apology. 

Some things are more important than politics.
I think normal people look at Washington and say, why would anyone want to join that mess.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: TomSea on September 24, 2016, 02:09:27 pm
Cruz is a Christ-centered individual who did his best as his conscience dictates.

Cruz is closer to most of us; as far as being the "little man";  most other candidates were bankrolled with big donor, even establishment money; there is a piper to pay. Only those trying to make political points portray this as some sort of transgression in my opinion.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: sinkspur on September 24, 2016, 02:13:36 pm
Cruz is a Christ-centered individual who did his best as his conscience dictates.

Cruz is closer to most of us; as far as being the "little man";  most other candidates were bankrolled with big donor, even establishment money; there is a piper to pay. Only those trying to make political points portray this as some sort of transgression in my opinion.

Cruz four months ago:  "I don't make a habit of endorsing people who insult my wife and father."

Yeah, you do Ted.  You have no integrity.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: catfish1957 on September 24, 2016, 02:26:22 pm
Cruz is a Christ-centered individual who did his best as his conscience dictates.

Cruz is closer to most of us; as far as being the "little man";  most other candidates were bankrolled with big donor, even establishment money; there is a piper to pay. Only those trying to make political points portray this as some sort of transgression in my opinion.

As one of his biggest supporters, this is my first real disappointment in him.  And it is a big one.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: XenaLee on September 24, 2016, 02:45:43 pm
Cruz four months ago:  "I don't make a habit of endorsing people who insult my wife and father."

Yeah, you do Ted.  You have no integrity.

If you will note, however, that Cruz's statement is NOT the same as saying "I will never endorse Donald Trump".

Logic.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Applewood on September 24, 2016, 04:37:06 pm
Bottom line:  Cruz reveals that, when the chips are down, he is an unprincipled opportunist who throws his own wife and father under the bus to save his political hide.

"You'll never get laid again, Ted.  Ever."

(https://tribzap2it.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/ted-cruz-heidi-cruz-getty.jpg?w=500)

Supposedly, his wife and father are on board with Cruz's endorsement.  Not sure I buy that, but that's the story. 

Too bad he didn't pay attention to his own supporters.  People might say this was a brilliant move on Cruz's part.   He may still be popular in Texas and could win re-election to the Senate, but he can kiss his presidential aspirations goodbye.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: bigheadfred on September 24, 2016, 04:55:39 pm
You're right, if you're nothing but a naked political opportunist.  But if you're a normal human being, you don't allow your closest relations to be humiliated and insulted and then crawl back to the cretin who humiliated them with no public apology. 

Some things are more important than politics.

Nothing is more important to a politician than politics. To place any trust or adoration on any of them is silly.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Nickname on September 24, 2016, 05:02:43 pm
You have to hand it to the GOP for recognizing that, if nothing else, Trump is a vehicle for neutralizing conservative opposition in their ranks and they'll get as many miles out of him as they can.

Personally, Cruz's decision didn't affect my decision to vote down ballot. The likes of McCaul, Cornyn and Priebus, however, now have me leaning towards just washing my hands of the GOP in its entirety and sitting this one out.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: XenaLee on September 24, 2016, 05:06:21 pm
You have to hand it to the GOP for recognizing that, if nothing else, Trump is a vehicle for neutralizing conservative opposition in their ranks and they'll get as many miles out of him as they can.

Personally, Cruz's decision didn't affect my decision to vote down ballot. The likes of McCaul, Cornyn and Priebus, however, now have me leaning towards just washing my hands of the GOP in its entirety and sitting this one out.

I have also toyed with that option....but I think voting for Castle will at least give me some semblance of peace vs. just sitting this one out.  Voting for anyone in the Uniparty at this point is.... quite probably...

pointless.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Nickname on September 24, 2016, 05:32:29 pm
Voting for anyone in the Uniparty at this point is.... quite probably...

pointless.

That's about where I am in this whole, sordid-affair of an election. I'm just not seeing any redeeming qualities in the GOP at this point.

Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: r9etb on September 24, 2016, 05:35:43 pm
I understand Cruz's position, even if I disagree with it.  Like so many, he's fallen into the "Clinton is worse" camp, and there's a reasonable case to be made for that.

In the end, it is the only position available for a guy who can't say out loud that his party has nominated a man unfit for the office.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: INVAR on September 24, 2016, 05:47:04 pm
I have also toyed with that option....but I think voting for Castle will at least give me some semblance of peace vs. just sitting this one out.  Voting for anyone in the Uniparty at this point is.... quite probably...

pointless.

Exactly.   On one hand you have a party of out-of-control debt spending Marxists who want to punish and enslave the bourgeois class, and on the other, you have a party of debt spending Fascists that think they can better manage big central government while their Populist Nationalist Nominee and his mobs threaten to punish and enact retribution on everyone who does not "bow to Trump".

Voting for anyone in either the Democrat or Republican party's is beyond pointless.   Liberty is being destroyed by both of them.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Nickname on September 24, 2016, 05:52:49 pm
I am mad at Cruz for this.

I'm not mad, it is what it is.

Between the hatred for Cruz by Trump's populist army and the GOP machine, I think it's a real possibility (at this point in time) that McCaul could challenge his seat and prevail if he plays it right.

If Cruz expects his endorsing Trump to remove the target from his back tho, I think he's going to be disappointed.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: sinkspur on September 24, 2016, 05:56:50 pm
Your beloved political favorites are far more politically calculating than Ted Cruz will ever be.  But that is ok with you because you like them.

I am mad at Cruz for this.  But he is certainly not worse than the Republican leadership in their sellouts to Obama and in their targeting and attacking all conservatives, particularly Tea Party members.  They (with your help) have attacked Cruz endlessly for not being political but rather for keeping promises to his supporters in Texas just as any representative in a republic is required to do.  Why?  Because THEY have political calculations that tell them using control of the power of the purse to rein in an overreaching executive branch might cost them too much politically.  So they cave on principles and let Obama win over and over again.  THEY CAUSED TRUMP!

Sorry your boy has feet of clay like every other politician.  He drew a line in the sand, then wiped it out when it really doesn't do him any good.

When Cruz could have joined Jeb last year at this time in taking Trump out, he chose, instead, to kiss up to Big Orange  and gave him oxygen when a courageous stand could have encouraged the other candidates to jump aboard #NeverTrump. 

Now, he looks foolish, endorsing the man who accused him of numerous affairs.  Cruz is no better than your run-of-the-mill Republican now.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Jazzhead on September 24, 2016, 07:50:29 pm
Cruz is a Christ-centered individual who did his best as his conscience dictates.

Cruz is closer to most of us; as far as being the "little man";  most other candidates were bankrolled with big donor, even establishment money; there is a piper to pay. Only those trying to make political points portray this as some sort of transgression in my opinion.

Actually,  I agree.   I have no ill will toward the man,  I understand the political calculation he made.   What's changed in the last several weeks is Hillary appears to be cratering, and lo and behold,  the blind squirrel may find his nut.   

May I remind folks that there isn't a soul in America that can't vote for Gary Johnson.   He's on the ballot in all fifty states,  and he's someone you can vote for, rather than vote against.    It is only the self-fulfilling prophecy of our political system that lies in the way of a nation on the verge of choosing someone they collectively abhor. 

Yes,  I will throw my vote away.  I will do so as a patriotic act,  as a shaken fist to scoundrels.   

Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Fantom on September 24, 2016, 08:22:02 pm
I'm not mad, it is what it is.

Between the hatred for Cruz by Trump's populist army and the GOP machine, I think it's a real possibility (at this point in time) that McCaul could challenge his seat and prevail if he plays it right.

If Cruz expects his endorsing Trump to remove the target from his back tho, I think he's going to be disappointed.

Or maybe it is a principled position of putting country before self.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: aligncare on September 24, 2016, 08:28:23 pm

Ted Cruz didn't flip. He did what was expected of him, of anyone in his position.

He did the right thing.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: skeeter on September 24, 2016, 08:33:23 pm
Or maybe it is a principled position of putting country before self.

I agree. It seems Cruz got as good a deal as he could from the Trump camp - if he gets the SCOTUS nominees he's approved of that will be enough for the country, the rest is gravy.

There's nothing he can do to guarantee Trump honors his word. And, realistically, sitting out the election does no one any good.

As far as insults to his family are concerned, thats really his business, no one else's.

That said I will still make up my own mind about who to vote for.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Fantom on September 24, 2016, 08:36:07 pm
I agree. It seems Cruz got as good a deal as he could from the Trump camp - if he gets the SCOTUS nominees he's approved of that will be enough for the country, the rest is gravy.

There's nothing he can do to guarantee Trump honors his word.

As far as insults to his family are concerned, thats really his business, no one else's.

That said I will still make up my own mind about who to vote for.

As will we all Skeeter, as will we all.  :patriot:
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Silver Pines on September 24, 2016, 08:36:07 pm
Actually,  I agree.   I have no ill will toward the man,  I understand the political calculation he made.   What's changed in the last several weeks is Hillary appears to be cratering, and lo and behold,  the blind squirrel may find his nut.   

May I remind folks that there isn't a soul in America that can't vote for Gary Johnson.   He's on the ballot in all fifty states,  and he's someone you can vote for, rather than vote against.    It is only the self-fulfilling prophecy of our political system that lies in the way of a nation on the verge of choosing someone they collectively abhor. 

Yes,  I will throw my vote away.  I will do so as a patriotic act,  as a shaken fist to scoundrels.   

@Jazzhead, I can't vote for Johnson.  He's pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, and he believes that climate change is caused by man.  I don't agree with any of that.

I thought he had a decent radio commercial until he reached the point where he said that one day we would all be able to get along peacefully, without wars (paraphrasing).

Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: DrewsDad on September 24, 2016, 08:39:20 pm

Between the hatred for Cruz by Trump's populist army and the GOP machine, I think it's a real possibility (at this point in time) that McCaul could challenge his seat and prevail if he plays it right.

Cruz was leading McCaul 51 to 19% in the poll taken last month.  McCaul's wife has money, but I don't think he's that popular state wide.  Rick Perry fared better in the poll against Cruz, but he's off Dancing with the Stars and made the statement that he's more interested in a executive position.  I think Cruz would have beat him anyway.

Above all else, Cruz is a Constitutionalist and is going to do what he can to prevent Hillary's Court from gutting it.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: skeeter on September 24, 2016, 08:40:07 pm
What's changed is Tom's new found respect for Cruz.  A good Christian apparently means you are planning on voting for Trump.


The nasty things he was saying about Cruz just a few short days ago.

Another example of why one shouldn't engage in trolling & mud slinging simply to provoke. Conditions change leaving the mud slinger to look like a fool with no credibility.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: DrewsDad on September 24, 2016, 08:57:12 pm
Cruz four months ago:  "I don't make a habit of endorsing people who insult my wife and father."

Yeah, you do Ted.  You have no integrity.

From http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/09/24/cruz-says-he-and-his-family-have-forgiven-donald-trump-says-decision-to-endorse-took-months-of-prayer/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/09/24/cruz-says-he-and-his-family-have-forgiven-donald-trump-says-decision-to-endorse-took-months-of-prayer/)

“Listen, [in] politics, there’s always criticism. If no one is throwing rocks at you, you’re not doing much of anything,” Cruz said. “I’ve discussed it with both Heidi and my dad. I love my wife. I love my dad. Both of them have forgiven Donald. I have forgiven him.”


Cruz's integrity is still intact.
{I can't say the same for posters who appear to criticize every person out there.)
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on September 24, 2016, 09:15:27 pm
Cruz four months ago:  "I don't make a habit of endorsing people who insult my wife and father."

Yeah, you do Ted.  You have no integrity.

And he is still correct.  It is not a habit for him.

Look up in the dictionary what a habit is defined as, then come back as to how this endorsement by Ted fits a that deifintion.

Ted has more integrity than any politician I have seen in my 40 years of voting.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: geronl on September 24, 2016, 09:55:38 pm
Ted's getting a bigger backlash now.

He gained no new supporters and lost a bunch.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: geronl on September 24, 2016, 10:04:24 pm


Trump does not deserve forgiveness.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Longmire on September 24, 2016, 10:22:15 pm
Ted's getting a bigger backlash now.

He gained no new supporters and lost a bunch.

If that is true (and I doubt it is), than he has no one to blame but himself for being stubborn.


Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: bigheadfred on September 24, 2016, 10:33:19 pm
Trump does not deserve forgiveness.

All the sins of the world.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: INVAR on September 24, 2016, 10:56:15 pm
Trump does not deserve forgiveness.

He never asked for it, and never repented.

So there is no reason to extend it.

That is how it works.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Applewood on September 24, 2016, 11:01:09 pm
Ted's getting a bigger backlash now.

He gained no new supporters and lost a bunch.

It's too bad.  Cruz had such promise, but his presidential aspirations are over.  And for what?  Keeping Hillary out of the White House?  Does he really believe that Trump will nominate conservatives for SCOTUS or keep any of the promises he has made?  Does Cruz really think that Trump will be better than Clinton on any issue?  I would have thought Cruz was smarter than that.

No matter what his reasons, no matter what he hoped to accomplish by giving in to Trump, the fact is Cruz will always be portrayed as a sellout.  I wonder if he realizes how many of his supporters who had donated to his campaign, worked tirelessly for him during the primaries and defended him and his family from the barage of slanderous assaults from Trump and his rented thugs are now feeling betrayed and can no longer trust him.  This will hurt Cruz in any future campaigns more than he knows.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: DrewsDad on September 24, 2016, 11:10:52 pm
He never asked for it, and never repented.

So there is no reason to extend it.

That is how it works.
I am not privy to the conversations he had with Trump.
Were you?

Cruz told the news station. “We had been engaged in conversations. You know it’s been a decision as I said I’ve been thinking about and praying about for weeks and months, discussing it with my family, and I made the decision today and announced it Friday.”

http://abc13.com/video/embed/?pid=1524783 (http://abc13.com/video/embed/?pid=1524783)
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: INVAR on September 24, 2016, 11:22:47 pm
I am not privy to the conversations he had with Trump.
Were you?


 Cruz said Trump has not apologized for personal insults (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/297628-cruz-trump-hasnt-apologized-for-personal-insults)

Google can be a your friend.

That said,

This whole Americanized prosperity gospel idea of 'forgiveness' - is beyond unbiblical.

It's suicidal, and explains a great deal why we now have a culture of debauchery parading itself as a good.

The idea of 'forgiving Trump' for slander when Trump says he has nothing to apologize for is beyond stupid.  We might as well shower Jihadists with love and forgiveness while they shout 'Allu Ackbar!" and promise to slit more throats.

All it does in enable further evil.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Norm Lenhart on September 24, 2016, 11:39:10 pm
It's too bad.  Cruz had such promise, but his presidential aspirations are over.  And for what?  Keeping Hillary out of the White House?  Does he really believe that Trump will nominate conservatives for SCOTUS or keep any of the promises he has made?  Does Cruz really think that Trump will be better than Clinton on any issue?  I would have thought Cruz was smarter than that.

No matter what his reasons, no matter what he hoped to accomplish by giving in to Trump, the fact is Cruz will always be portrayed as a sellout.  I wonder if he realizes how many of his supporters who had donated to his campaign, worked tirelessly for him during the primaries and defended him and his family from the barage of slanderous assaults from Trump and his rented thugs are now feeling betrayed and can no longer trust him.  This will hurt Cruz in any future campaigns more than he knows.

Trump told these people to their faces that everything he said was a negotiation. That means he will change his prior position if he chooses. Agreeing to CruZ terms got him a win. Once elected, he will change his position. Thats his history when he gets what he wants.

Cruz made a terrible choice.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: bigheadfred on September 25, 2016, 12:04:56 am
Exactly!  He also reinforces Trump's vile methods.  Trump won.  Cruz submits.
@Norm Lenhart

Cruz is merely doing what any smart politician would do. He isn't in play for the big chair now, but I'm betting he is figuring for a bigger, better play for it down the road. He is young. Plenty of time to get what he wants later.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: DrewsDad on September 25, 2016, 12:06:49 am
Cruz said Trump has not apologized for personal insults (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/297628-cruz-trump-hasnt-apologized-for-personal-insults)

Google can be a your friend.

That said,

This whole Americanized prosperity gospel idea of 'forgiveness' - is beyond unbiblical.

My apologies for not googling an article with a timestamp 2 minutes before my post about an interview that ended 2 hours before my post.

I do agree that granting forgiveness should be conditional on the offender's repentance and should take place in a personal manner.
Having the attitude to forgive someone is not dependent on the offender's actions.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Norm Lenhart on September 25, 2016, 12:12:49 am
@Norm Lenhart

Cruz is merely doing what any smart politician would do. He isn't in play for the big chair now, but I'm betting he is figuring for a bigger, better play for it down the road. He is young. Plenty of time to get what he wants later.

No doubt. But he'll try to do it without a lot of us supporting him again.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: bigheadfred on September 25, 2016, 12:27:44 am
No doubt. But he'll try to do it without a lot of us supporting him again.

Yeah. He'll probably outlive me so there is that.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: aligncare on September 25, 2016, 12:42:00 am
I am not privy to the conversations he had with Trump.
Were you?

Cruz told the news station. “We had been engaged in conversations. You know it’s been a decision as I said I’ve been thinking about and praying about for weeks and months, discussing it with my family, and I made the decision today and announced it Friday.”

http://abc13.com/video/embed/?pid=1524783 (http://abc13.com/video/embed/?pid=1524783)

It's entirely possible Donald Trump's reputation for dealmaking is more than just hype and is part of the equation of this event.

Donald Trump set his sights on becoming president, has been thinking about it for many years. 

Donald Trump makes things happen – a 100-story skyscraper in a foreign capital doesn't just pop up on its own; defeating 16 seasoned politicians for the Republican nomination his first stab at politics is a remarkable accomplishment.

Together with Ted Cruz's unequivocal statements supporting Donald Trump (an endorsement after such long public refusal?) tells me that Donald Trump's team was, shall we say, persuasive.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Longmire on September 25, 2016, 12:47:06 am
No doubt. But he'll try to do it without a lot of us supporting him again.

And what is your 'a lot' gonna do, run against him in the 2018 primary?

I'll file that notion under things that won't happen :laugh:

Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Norm Lenhart on September 25, 2016, 12:52:10 am
And what is your 'a lot' gonna do, run against him in the 2018 primary?

I'll file that notion under things that won't happen :laugh:

What ever gets you through the day.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Longmire on September 25, 2016, 12:55:07 am
@Norm Lenhart  :laugh:

(https://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Hostetters_Bitters.jpg)
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: sinkspur on September 25, 2016, 12:55:33 am
It's entirely possible Donald Trump's reputation for dealmaking is more than just hype and is part of the equation of this event.

Donald Trump set his sights on becoming president, has been thinking about it for many years. 

Donald Trump makes things happen – a 100-story skyscraper in a foreign capital doesn't just pop up on its own; defeating 16 seasoned politicians for the Republican nomination his first stab at politics is a remarkable accomplishment.

Together with Ted Cruz's unequivocal statements supporting Donald Trump (an endorsement after such long public refusal?) tells me that Donald Trump's team was, shall we say, persuasive.

Trump didn't beg Cruz.  Cruz caved on his own.  Betrayed his "vote your conscience" exhortation, threw away what goodwill he had left.

Meet the Press announced Cruz won't be on tomorrow now.  Probably because he's fetching Trump's Egg McMuffin.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: INVAR on September 25, 2016, 01:00:14 am
Having the attitude to forgive someone is not dependent on the offender's actions.

God does not forgive without repentance.

He desires no flesh to be lost, but that ALL come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

Repentance is required before one grants forgiveness.

That is how God executes forgiveness, than that is the model to follow.

Otherwise you are just enabling evil to continue without consequence.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Longmire on September 25, 2016, 01:03:18 am
@sinkpsur a couple of days ago you were saying that you'd vote for Cruz in 2018, has that changed?
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Longmire on September 25, 2016, 01:07:22 am
God does not forgive without repentance.

Ahem...Ted Cruz isn't God and he can forgive whomever he wants to without that person's repentance.

Climb down off that pulpit son...
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: INVAR on September 25, 2016, 01:12:43 am
Ahem...Ted Cruz isn't God and he can forgive whomever he wants to without that person's repentance.

Sure he can.

And he enables Trump's slanderous behavior, because Trump got rewarded for slandering him and his family.


Climb down off that pulpit son...

You're welcome to try and knock me off or get my ordination revoked if you so choose.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Norm Lenhart on September 25, 2016, 01:17:13 am
@Norm Lenhart  :laugh:

(https://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Hostetters_Bitters.jpg)

As I said, color inside the lines and daddy will put your pretty picture on the refrigerator. Later, if you are good, you can go to the book store and he will get you a dictionary so you understand why it's important to use the proper words in sentences.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Fishrrman on September 25, 2016, 02:49:31 am
Applewood wrote:
"It's too bad.  Cruz had such promise, but his presidential aspirations are over."

I sense that one of the motivations behind Mr. Cruz endorsing Mr. Trump were so he might keep those aspirations alive, at least for a while.

A refusal to support Trump would have ended them.

I daresay that Mr. Cruz won't be able to win the presidency, in any case.
The circumstances of his birth will prevent that, regardless of his loyalty to America, of which there's no doubt.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: DCPatriot on September 25, 2016, 02:56:17 am
The only reaon Cruz flipped is because he knows Trump is going to win. 

By 'endorsing' him with sufficient time to garner more votes, the results will determine if he's awarded a seat on the SCOTUS.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: sinkspur on September 25, 2016, 03:18:03 am
The only reaon Cruz flipped is because he knows Trump is going to win. 

By 'endorsing' him with sufficient time to garner more votes, the results will determine if he's awarded a seat on the SCOTUS.

He's not on Trump's list.  And, with Cruz's reputation, it's doubtful a GOP Senate would confirm him.

Cruz doesn't want to be blamed for Trump's loss.  Cruz is out for Cruz.  He could give a damn about Trump.
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Jazzhead on September 25, 2016, 01:20:33 pm
Trump didn't beg Cruz.  Cruz caved on his own.  Betrayed his "vote your conscience" exhortation, threw away what goodwill he had left.

Meet the Press announced Cruz won't be on tomorrow now.  Probably because he's fetching Trump's Egg McMuffin.

I think I understand Cruz's dilemma,  and whether it helps him at all in the end remains to be seen.   

Trump's still the vile would-be fascist he's always been,  but what's changed is Hillary's implosion (and the rising belief that there's far more to come.)    Cruz thinks Trump can win,  and either wants to escape the long knives,  or thinks he can cut a deal to serve in Trump's administration,  or maybe really is concerned about the Supreme Court.   

We will all be done in, in the end, by the self-fulfilling prophecy of the system.   Two choices, two possible outcomes.   And yet Gary Johnson is on the ballot in all fifty states.    I've noticed I don't have to choose between crazy and corrupt.   I can vote for a candidate and a philosophy - limited, Constitutional government - that I can believe in and support for it's own sake.  So can you.   
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: Longmire on September 25, 2016, 01:51:09 pm
And yet Gary Johnson is on the ballot in all fifty states.  I've noticed I don't have to choose between crazy and corrupt. 

(http://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/styles/169large/public/uploads/2016/09/gary_johnson.jpg?itok=1nebwyi1)
Title: Re: Why Cruz flipped on Trump
Post by: bigheadfred on September 25, 2016, 02:05:23 pm
@Longmire  @Jazzhead

Nope. Don't have to vote for crazy or corrupt. But men, lock up your daughters. LOL