The Briefing Room
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dexter on October 19, 2018, 04:44:16 pm
-
I just want to say that I think the left is very vulnerable right now. Trump has exposed their insanity; the left has never been more unhinged. Even if you hate Trump I hope you see the value in what he has done to the left's state of mind. If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.
-
I just want to say that I think the left is very vulnerable right now. Trump has exposed their insanity; the left has never been more unhinged. Even if you hate Trump I hope you see the value in what he has done to the left's state of mind. If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.
As a (generally speaking) non-Trump Republican, I agree. Solidarity is a virtue. Especially when the other side's acting as a mob.
-
I try to stay out of the anti-Trump fray on TBR. Cruz was my guy until he didn't get the nomination. I don't care for Trump's personality, but he is POTUS and has done some good things.
-
I just want to say that I think the left is very vulnerable right now. Trump has exposed their insanity; the left has never been more unhinged. Even if you hate Trump I hope you see the value in what he has done to the left's state of mind. If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.
No, as a Conservative, I have no dog in this hunt. It has little to do with Tump, other than his liberalism. There is not a single Conservative principle being served, so there is little to cheer on either side. Democrat leftism vs, Republican leftism... There is little difference to me.
-
If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.
Why would I unite with a mob that supports liberalism as long as their guy is the one doing it?
Trillion-dollar deficits as far as the future can see. Single -payer Trumpcare being floated. Expansion of the government to be all-powerful and intrusive.
Why would I ever 'unite' with that? That is just Liberal/Leftism repackaged as populism and conservatism. I want nothing to do with that.
Why would I unite with the rabid MAGA hat crowd whom have declared people like me an 'enemy of the people' to be destroyed 'when the time comes', because we dare criticize the Executive and do not support him?
I no more will unite with the likes of ForeverTrump® than I will the Marxist Left.
They both despise the same core principles that maintain liberty and hold them in contempt along with the people who live by, practice and advocate them.
Tension will remain because we obviously do not share the same foundations or core beliefs any more. One entity has wrapped them up into faith in Trump, and ours have remained steadfast in biblical morality and faith, which is despised equally by both the Marxist Left and the rabid MAGA crowd.
-
You don’t hand matches to an arsonist, and you don’t give power to an angry left-wing mob. Democrats have become too EXTREME and TOO DANGEROUS to govern. [That's enough. -Mod2]
-
I was pissed about Trump calling out Cruz, right after the nomination in Cleveland, still saying that JFK killer nonsense, with Mike Pence grinning like" What did I get myself into".
Seemed tacky and spiteful for a guy that just received the nomination a day earlier.
Still, now that they've patched things up, and things are going well, I'm happy, and quite willing to help defeat the left on election day.
That was never in question for me anyway.
I've always done that, even when the only choice left on the past ballots was a RINO.
RINO is still better than Socialist, although, sometimes its hard to tell.
-
Tension will remain because we obviously do not share the same foundations or core beliefs any more. One entity has wrapped them up into faith in Trump, and ours have remained steadfast in biblical morality and faith, which is despised equally by both the Marxist Left and the rabid MAGA crowd.
The religious right and the MAGA crowd can't afford to part ways; you'll all be defeated. I understand they're not your idea of conservative, but certainly Trump and somebody like Elizabeth Warren have quite a lot of differences.
-
The religious right and the MAGA crowd can't afford to part ways; you'll all be defeated.
We are already politically defeated as far as Conservatism goes. Statism/Collectivism is now the status quo. It's just being repackaged as either Democratic Socialism or Nationalist Populism/Conservatism. Both are just different degrees of liberal statism upon trillions of dollars of deficit spending.
All we are doing now is arguing about how much or how little should be imposed.
As far as the 'religious right' and the MAGA crowd, they declared us enemies and traitors to be destroyed.
Notwithstanding the GOP Establishment leadership literally told us even before Trump, to either shut up, vote the way they tell us or get out of the party. Including the statement that our religious principles and values are an 'embarrassment' to the party and cost them elections, openly agreeing that they wish we would just all 'go away'.
We granted their wish, and that was even before 2016. The MAGA crowd just made that divide permanent.
I understand they're not your idea of conservative, but certainly Trump and somebody like Elizabeth Warren have quite a lot of differences.
I'm done playing the lesser of two evils game. Statists and liberals are the same to me regardless of what letter they put after their name.
I will now only vote for Constitutional and principled Conservatives, preferably in a third party.
I do appreciate your effort to attempt some kind of reconciliation - but it's a couple years too late for that. At least AFAIC. The GOP and MAGA crowd saw to that and continue to this moment. Many demonstrate that they hate us more than they hate the Left.
-
I try to stay out of the anti-Trump fray on TBR. Cruz was my guy until he didn't get the nomination. I don't care for Trump's personality, but he is POTUS and has done some good things.
Smart lady.
-
Sorry, I just see the point in your post. What exactly has Trump to do with voting for a Conservative candidate? Why exactly would you even roll voting for Conservatives into what you call Trump Republicans and non-Trump Republicans.................unless it was to stir the pot of contention on the board?
<p>
Wouldn't it have been more accurate and to the point if you had just posted about how we need to be united in voting for the best Conservative candidate without even bringing Trump into it?
-
Wouldn't it have been more accurate and to the point if you had just posted about how we need to be united in voting for the best Conservative candidate without even bringing Trump into it?
:patriot:
-
I try to stay out of the anti-Trump fray on TBR. Cruz was my guy until he didn't get the nomination. I don't care for Trump's personality, but he is POTUS and has done some good things.
That's where most Briefers are these days. The only criticisms from either side is whether one is sufficiently in one camp or the other. You know what they say about being "in the middle of the road?" You get run over. :shrug:
-
I just want to say that I think the left is very vulnerable right now. Trump has exposed their insanity; the left has never been more unhinged. Even if you hate Trump I hope you see the value in what he has done to the left's state of mind. If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.
Stick around a bit longer this time, @Dexter. Those of us who refuse to belong to either camp could use your help and support....
-
I see that there's still tension between Trump Republicans and non-Trump<NOPE>
There. Fixed it.
-
There. Fixed it.
Actually Frank I really don't consider myself part of the party of Rollovericans, I am a Conservative and whether or not I vote for anyone hasn't got a damn thing do with them having an R behind their name.
-
I was pissed about Trump calling out Cruz, right after the nomination in Cleveland, still saying that JFK killer nonsense, with Mike Pence grinning like" What did I get myself into".
Seemed tacky and spiteful for a guy that just received the nomination a day earlier.
Still, now that they've patched things up, and things are going well, I'm happy, and quite willing to help defeat the left on election day.
That was never in question for me anyway.
I've always done that, even when the only choice left on the past ballots was a RINO.
RINO is still better than Socialist, although, sometimes its hard to tell.
I still get p*ssed when I remember the little high five (maybe it was a wink) Trump & Carson traded after Carson missed his debate introduction cue back during the primaries.
That was then, now with a few minor exceptions I'm fully on board with the president.
-
Wouldn't it have been more accurate and to the point if you had just posted about how we need to be united in voting for the best Conservative candidate without even bringing Trump into it?
It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP. Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years. The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.
-
Stick around a bit longer this time, @Dexter. Those of us who refuse to belong to either camp could use your help and support....
I'm thinking about sticking around for a bit. It can be difficult because I get invested in the conversations here and it tends to eat up a lot of my time, particularly when debating people like @musiclady.
-
It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP. Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years. The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.
Excellent reasoning and rationale. You da bomb, dude!
:thumbsup:
But, don’t let the people here who persist on being obstinate about President Trump color your attitude. Sometimes it’s hard for some to admit they were wrong from the very beginning about the man.
However, you are correct to hope for unity on the right in order to save America from the mobs of deranged democrats and NeverTrumpers.
-
It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP. Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years. The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.
Ultimately it comes to this for both sides of this debate:
What are we saving?
IN GENERAL:
The Trumpeters believe that Trump is the last best hope to return America to its founding principles.
and
The NTs believe that ship has sailed. The rot is so deep and so pervasive that the Ugly is only a matter of time. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, the demands for total acceptance to EVERYTHING trump does by his most ardent supporters only further illustrate the perception that America as we knew her is dead.
The Ugly is coming and Hell is riding with it.
-
The Trumpeters believe that Trump is the last best hope to return America to its founding principles.
and
The NTs believe that ship has sailed. The rot is so deep and so pervasive that the Ugly is only a matter of time. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, the demands for total acceptance to EVERYTHING trump does by his most ardent supporters only further illustrate the perception that America as we knew her is dead.
As a member of neither group, I believe in supporting and voting for the best, most conservative person I can to every single office, from school board to U.S. Senate. Realistically, I'm not sure that there's anything else I can do. Calling other people names on social media sure isn't accomplishing anything.
-
Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.
Two falsities are assumed:
1) That everyone s Republican
and
2) That the alternative to voting for the Big Rhinestone 'R' is 'giving up'.
-
It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP.
For some of us, NO - Trump is not the reason we left the GOP. Trump simply affirms that our decision to dump the feckless party and move on was a wise and timely choice.
In my case, the years leading up to the 2014 midterms and ultimately the 2016 election were the last straw. The GOP proved they absolutely had zero intention to do anything they campaigned on except to hand Obama his agenda on a paid-for by taxpayer debt silver platter, give their base the middle finger, and adopt the Democrat agenda as their own to protect. They demonstrated they can and will go to vicious war against an actual Conservative to push an Establishment statist (McDaniels/Cochran anyone?) and treat rabid Leftists as equals while performing kabuki 'hearings' into treason and criminality while doing absolutely nothing about it beyond theatrics.
The "You are 100% with us or 100% against us" meme during elections by both GOP party hacks and later by Trump's fanatics made the schism permanent AFAIC.
Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years.
Most of it actually is less about Trump and more about principles that are regarded as losers and therefore disposable for political pragmatism's sake or insoluble and resolute without any willingness to compromise on surrendering them. THAT is where the actual line in the sand and all the combat is actually centered. That Trump's fans now ridicule foundational moral principles with the same ferocity and contempt that the Godless Left does, simply confirms for people like me that what now exists in the GOP under Trump, are people who can care less about Liberty and more about lockstep loyalty to party and president. They want payback, retribution and revenge. They want a mob of unified True Believers, or they will count anyone else as an enemy. They would instill their own brand of tyranny if they could, and they have demonstrated the same disdain for political speech and opinions they disagree with as much as the Left has demonstrated.
The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.
I've given up on the Republican Party after slaving for it for two decades plus. They are hopelessly infiltrated with Democrats, corrupted and lost without any chance of redemption AFAIC.
My efforts, money and time are going to be spent elsewhere to support the cause that party has abandoned.
Any chance of getting along is going to lie in letting people be free to support whom they choose without being treated and labeled as an enemy of the people.
But I do not think that is going to happen when a whole bunch of people insist that the country is at stake and you are either 100% with them, or you are 100% an enemy. As long as that intolerant position dominates the discourse here and elsewhere - there is no chance of 'healing' the schism. It will be permanent.
-
For some of us, NO -
.
Spoken like a true democrat.
-
Two falsities are assumed:
1) That everyone s Republican
I guess I should have said "the right."
and
2) That the alternative to voting for the Big Rhinestone 'R' is 'giving up'.
It's giving up on the GOP. In the long term that might turn out okay, but the left would gain a lot of momentum in the meantime if scores of people like you stopped voting with the Republicans.
-
It's giving up on the GOP.
No... That boat sailed back in 07.
Again, the assumption that the GOP is the Right. It is not.
-
Spoken like a true democrat.
You forgot to assert Hillary voter and supporter too.
Don't forget to equate me with Antifa and Al Qaeda and ISIS. We wouldn't want anyone to think you've gone soft on illustrating yourself to be what you accuse others of being now would we?
-
All posters are reminded of the rules of this forum (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,308154.msg1633216.html#msg1633216), including the forum owner's statement, "When someone breaks the rule this will be posted to them for 1st offense..2nd offense is 6hr timeout...2nd offense is 12hr and so on..."
This is a suggestion that from this point forward, everyone refrain from sniping at one another.
-
Spoken like a true democrat.
You know....its really hard to take anyone serious who has GW with a MAGA hat avatar. Nice job.
-
You know....its really hard to take anyone serious who has GW with a MAGA hat avatar. Nice job.
Look closer at the hat
-
Look closer at the hat
prints too fine to read..
-
It say's " Make America"
as in he made america. D'oh
-
"No personal insults" means no personal insults. Both of you cut it out. The forum rules (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,308154.msg1633216.html#msg1633216) are not difficult to understand or follow.
-
"No personal insults" means no personal insults. Both of you cut it out. The forum rules (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,308154.msg1633216.html#msg1633216) are not difficult to understand or follow.
I've had just about enough of these generally retarded reminders being pimped on all the threads tonight. I don't what type of fire was lit under your Mod asses, but the actions being taken posting this reminder are absurd. Everyone wants to run some hippy dippy forum with all political persuasions allowed to post but then get their panties in a bunch when punches are thrown. It doesn't work like that in the real world and it ain't going to work here. Come up with a better solution.
If this post is molested, modified or deleted there will be consequences.
-
Frank, take it offline. We are happy to respond to your concerns.
BTW - punching is fine - as long as it's above the belt. Below the belt has consequences and results in cleanup activity.
-
I demand My Beer Summit. Gawd damnit.
-
Kiss my ass.
That mod has been tasked with trying to keep things decent around here so constructive conversation can happen. You were not disrespected in any way. It's unbecoming of grown people to treat each other like that. I bet at the end of the day you're a pretty decent guy; maybe you're having a bad night tonight. I hope sometime later you apologize.
-
Frank, take it offline. We are happy to respond to your concerns.
I made my comment. There isn't anything more to say.
-
For some of us, NO - Trump is not the reason we left the GOP. Trump simply affirms that our decision to dump the feckless party and move on was a wise and timely choice.
In my case, the years leading up to the 2014 midterms and ultimately the 2016 election were the last straw. The GOP proved they absolutely had zero intention to do anything they campaigned on except to hand Obama his agenda on a paid-for by taxpayer debt silver platter, give their base the middle finger, and adopt the Democrat agenda as their own to protect. They demonstrated they can and will go to vicious war against an actual Conservative to push an Establishment statist (McDaniels/Cochran anyone?) and treat rabid Leftists as equals while performing kabuki 'hearings' into treason and criminality while doing absolutely nothing about it beyond theatrics.
The "You are 100% with us or 100% against us" meme during elections by both GOP party hacks and later by Trump's fanatics made the schism permanent AFAIC.
Most of it actually is less about Trump and more about principles that are regarded as losers and therefore disposable for political pragmatism's sake or insoluble and resolute without any willingness to compromise on surrendering them. THAT is where the actual line in the sand and all the combat is actually centered. That Trump's fans now ridicule foundational moral principles with the same ferocity and contempt that the Godless Left does, simply confirms for people like me that what now exists in the GOP under Trump, are people who can care less about Liberty and more about lockstep loyalty to party and president. They want payback, retribution and revenge. They want a mob of unified True Believers, or they will count anyone else as an enemy. They would instill their own brand of tyranny if they could, and they have demonstrated the same disdain for political speech and opinions they disagree with as much as the Left has demonstrated.
I've given up on the Republican Party after slaving for it for two decades plus. They are hopelessly infiltrated with Democrats, corrupted and lost without any chance of redemption AFAIC.
My efforts, money and time are going to be spent elsewhere to support the cause that party has abandoned.
Any chance of getting along is going to lie in letting people be free to support whom they choose without being treated and labeled as an enemy of the people.
But I do not think that is going to happen when a whole bunch of people insist that the country is at stake and you are either 100% with them, or you are 100% an enemy. As long as that intolerant position dominates the discourse here and elsewhere - there is no chance of 'healing' the schism. It will be permanent.
------------------------------------
Beyond astounding the level of blather.
Our only principled conservative party, since founding,
was the Southern Agrarian & Rural Democrats of Henry,
Jefferson, Madison, Rutledge, Calhoun; among dozens.
Sadly the Civil War destroyed those aspirations and values.
The Republicans emerged as an anti-slavery party drawing
support from northern mercantile interests beginning
w/Fremont 1856.They never had anything to do
w/Principled Conservatism; NOT FOR A SINGLE DAY!!!!!
Lord have mercy.
-
It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP. Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years. The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.
The "current schism" has been building since before I was born. Trump isn't the main reason for it, he's simply the guy who was at the head of the ticket when things got ugliest (so far, at least during the times I'm old enough to remember). A lot of us didn't leave the GOP because of Trump, we left because the GOP has taken us for granted in every single election we've ever been able to participate in (in my case, I bailed when they re-elected Boner as Speaker).
-
It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP. Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years. The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.
I agree w/ Invar, I haven't voted for a Republican president (party pick at least) for the last 3 elections. I may never get to vote for a real conservative in the remainder of my lifetime at the rate the GOP is throwing junk at us.
So be it.
-
That mod has been tasked with trying to keep things decent around here so constructive conversation can happen. You were not disrespected in any way. It's unbecoming of grown people to treat each other like that. I bet at the end of the day you're a pretty decent guy; maybe you're having a bad night tonight. I hope sometime later you apologize.
@Dexter
Take the time to go read @The Ghost posting history. He virtually never has anything constructive to say. His primary schtick is to be a jerk-off to everyone who doesn’t worship at his trump altar. He just got off a time-out period. He’s just pining for another one.
-
Not voting republican? Sounds to me awfully close to demplant-ish. :nono:
-
The "current schism" has been building since before I was born. Trump isn't the main reason for it, he's simply the guy who was at the head of the ticket when things got ugliest (so far, at least during the times I'm old enough to remember). A lot of us didn't leave the GOP because of Trump, we left because the GOP has taken us for granted in every single election we've ever been able to participate in (in my case, I bailed when they re-elected Boner as Speaker).
Maybe it's more accurate to say that Donald Trump is currently the face of a schism that has been present for a while? Either way when speaking of Republican unity in 2018 I think Donald Trump is very relevant to the conversation. He's a catalyst for infighting currently.
-
I agree w/ Invar, I haven't voted for a Republican president (party pick at least) for the last 3 elections. I may never get to vote for a real conservative in the remainder of my lifetime at the rate the GOP is throwing junk at us.
So be it.
But yall just loved that sorry POS G.W. Bush. The Nevers here haven't the slightest idea of what
it means to be a conservative. Trump is the most conservative president since IKE. Vastly more
conservative than any Bush.
-
But yall just loved that sorry POS G.W. Bush. The Nevers here haven't the slightest idea of what
it means to be a conservative. Trump is the most conservative president since IKE. Vastly more
conservative than any Bush.
@jpsb
Read @INVAR and my posts above. For the 836,742 time. The problem isn’t trump. The problem is YOU and your ilk who keep spouting stupid shit like what you did here. We give trump credit when he does conservative things. But that ain’t good enough for you. We must bow down in realty to him (and to y’all) and beg for your forgiveness. Screw that and screw you. I give credit when conservatism is advanced and I demean when it is not.
You are the problem here because that isn’t good enough for you.
-
Spoken like a true democrat.
What exactly are the point of your posts other than to insult and incite?
-
I guess I should have said "the right."
It's giving up on the GOP. In the long term that might turn out okay, but the left would gain a lot of momentum in the meantime if scores of people like you stopped voting with the Republicans.
If the Republicans hadn't been so consistent in voting with the democrats maybe I wouldn't have left. But I will vote the Conservative line as I see it, not as some people(not you Dexter) tell me to or they brand me as a democrat, traitor or worse.
I had with the GOP after they consistently cave to the democrats every time they had a majority. To paraphrase good old George Putnam ' I didn't leave the Republican Party, the Republican party left me.
-
Not voting republican? Sounds to me awfully close to demplant-ish. :nono:
And you sound just like the "Tolerant" Leftists that do not tolerate any behavior, speech or ideas that do not worship and support their party.
-
Maybe it's more accurate to say that Donald Trump is currently the face of a schism that has been present for a while? Either way when speaking of Republican unity in 2018 I think Donald Trump is very relevant to the conversation. He's a catalyst for infighting currently.
If anything Trump is a symptom of how far Republicans have separated themselves from what they once stood for. If that means he is now the 'face' of the schism - then so be it. He did not start or cause it. He is just exacerbating it.
I have no interest in being 'united' with a party that told unwavering principled Conservatives to shut up, support whom they tell us to support or get out. I have no interest in being in a party that acts just like Democrats in voice and deed.
Trump just inspires Republicans to act like he does and to push for payback and punishment on anyone not in lockstep with them and to become Apologists for Statism as long as their guy and their party does it.
The Nevers here haven't the slightest idea of what it means to be a conservative.
You have tried your hardest to show us what it means to be a "Conservative" in the post Obama era: devote full fealty to Trump as the greatest leader ever and justify deficit spending and positions that are exactly the same as the Democrat Left in order to show yourselves pragmatic and realistic.
-
@jpsb
Read @INVAR and my posts above. For the 836,742 time. The problem isn’t trump. The problem is YOU and your ilk who keep spouting stupid shit like what you did here. We give trump credit when he does conservative things. But that ain’t good enough for you. We must bow down in realty to him (and to y’all) and beg for your forgiveness. Screw that and screw you. I give credit when conservatism is advanced and I demean when it is not.
You are the problem here because that isn’t good enough for you.
I find that it's the Partisans on both sides of the internal conflict that push me toward the opposite camp. I'm a "Neither."
-
But yall just loved that sorry POS G.W. Bush.
@jpsb
FALSE.
The Nevers here haven't the slightest idea of what
it means to be a conservative. Trump is the most conservative president since IKE. Vastly more
conservative than any Bush.
Also false. More conservative??? That is utterly laughable. According to what criteria? Defend that statement if you can. Which you can't.
-
@jpsb
FALSE.
Also false. More conservative??? That is utterly laughable. According to what criteria? Defend that statement if you can. Which you can't.
:pop41:
-
If anything Trump is a symptom of how far Republicans have separated themselves from what they once stood for. If that means he is now the 'face' of the schism - then so be it. He did not start or cause it. He is just exacerbating it.
I have no interest in being 'united' with a party that told unwavering principled Conservatives to shut up, support whom they tell us to support or get out. I have no interest in being in a party that acts just like Democrats in voice and deed.
This part is exactly right, and the crux of the situation.
I have zero fealty to party.
I have zero fealty to persons (Cruz is quickly losing traction with me, as an instance).
ALL I care about politically are the principles of Conservatism. And I think I speak for my fellows in that, all of whom have been regularly assaulted as 'purists', I am sure, as I have...
That Republicans do not stand upon those principles anymore at all is the issue. Somehow they feel they have the right to Conservative votes anyway, while Conservatives, having less and less loyalty to party as they go, are finding other political bodies to support instead.
I will never be a Republican again. The betrayal is so deep and so longstanding that trust in party is forever shattered.
Defend your positions and candidates upon the principles of Conservatism, or STFU.
Fear based angles trying to make me vote against the other side will not work.
Half-baked attempts to change Conservatism by hyphenation will not work.
Asinine attempts at in-group/out-group will not work.
If it is not Conservative, you ain't gonna win me any more.
-
I have no interest in being 'united' with a party that told unwavering principled Conservatives to shut up
I just love how you ignore that these same "unwavering principled Conservatives" were the ones giving aid and comfort to the Hillary camp by working against the Republican candidate with a voracious zeal.
Did you really expect the actions by these few to go unchallenged in the heat of a close election??
-
But yall just loved that sorry POS G.W. Bush. The Nevers here haven't the slightest idea of what
it means to be a conservative. Trump is the most conservative president since IKE. Vastly more
conservative than any Bush.
---------------------------
As Russell Kirk asserted for Heritage decades ago;
Principled Conservatism is a body of precepts governing conduct,
concerning attitudes and behaviors involving human nature.
It was born in the Greece of Antiquity; primarily through Plato,
and has absolutely nothing, NOTHING, to do w/politics or religion.
-
I just love how you ignore that these same "unwavering principled Conservatives" were the ones giving aid and comfort to the Hillary camp by working against the Republican candidate with a voracious zeal.
Did you really expect the actions by these few to go unchallenged in the heat of a close election??
@Right_in_Virginia
Rather, giving neither aid, nor comfort to either camp... Your perspective is warped by your membership in one of those camps...
-
@Right_in_Virginia
Rather, giving neither aid, nor comfort to either camp... Your perspective is warped by your membership in one of those camps...
Yup. And one or the other of "those camps" is going to win this war.
We'll fill you in on the details @roamer_1 after we've won. :beer:
-
Yup. And one or the other of "those camps" is going to win this war.
I wish I could agree with that.... **nononono*
-
Yup. And one or the other of "those camps" is going to win this war.
We'll fill you in on the details @roamer_1 after we've won. :beer:
@Right_in_Virginia
Ahh... more 'winning'.
It seems it doesn't matter what you've 'won'. *****rollingeyes*****
-
I just love how you ignore that these same "unwavering principled Conservatives" were the ones giving aid and comfort to the Hillary camp by working against the Republican candidate with a voracious zeal.
Nonsense. I've been at TBR since day one, and never saw anyone giving aid and comfort to the Hillary camp. Not being enthusiastic about the ultimate GOP candidate in 2016 is nowhere near the same as offering support to the Dem candidate. There actually is a middle ground.
-
@Right_in_Virginia
Ahh... more 'winning'. It seems it doesn't matter what you've 'won'. *****rollingeyes*****
@roamer_1 ... relax. You needn't still try so hard ---- I already understand you don't know what's happening; and I'm okay with that.
Shalom.
-
Nonsense. I've been at TBR since day one, and never saw anyone giving aid and comfort to the Hillary camp. Not being enthusiastic about the ultimate GOP candidate in 2016 is nowhere near the same as offering support to the Dem candidate. There actually is a middle ground.
It's surprising that Hillary supporters manage to find the power button and their browser icon to make their presence known online.
-
There actually is a middle ground.
Not anymore.
-
It's surprising that Hillary supporters manage to find the power button and their browser icon to make their presence known online.
What does that mean?
-
Nonsense. I've been at TBR since day one, and never saw anyone giving aid and comfort to the Hillary camp.
Working for the defeat of the Republican presidential candidate DID most certainly give aid and comfort to the enemy political camp. It gave them hope, a reason to believe in victory and it gave them energy. Worst of all, it almost worked.
-
@roamer_1 ... relax. You needn't still try so hard ---- I already understand you don't know what's happening; and I'm okay with that.
Shalom.
I understand exactly what is happening @Right_in_Virginia . An ad-hoc 'conservatism' without the principles thereof.
That is not winning.
That is capitulation.
-
Working for the defeat of the Republican presidential candidate DID most certainly give aid and comfort to the enemy political camp. It gave them hope, a reason to believe in victory and it gave them energy. Worst of all, it almost worked.
I still don't know what you mean. Some of us were less than enthused about candidate Trump, but still voted for him because we knew candidate Clinton would be a complete disaster. (That would include me, by the way). So our lack of enthusiasm equates to aid, comfort, hope and a reason to believe? I don't think so.
As for those who voted in 2016 for none of the above or one of the fringe candidates, it still is not fair to say they support the Hilldebeaste. They simply didn't support either of the two major party candidates.
And why are we rehashing 2016 right now anyway? Shouldn't we be focusing on the elections in a few weeks?
-
I understand exactly what is happening @Right_in_Virginia . An ad-hoc 'conservatism' without the principles thereof.
That is not winning.
That is capitulation.
Nah, you're confused. But bless your wonderful heart @roamer_1
We'll leave a light on for you. :beer:
-
What does that mean?
It was mean. I was implying that turning on a computer and operating it on a basic level is an impressive feat for somebody that voted for Hillary. I figured the crowd here would forgive me. :laugh:
-
Working for the defeat of the Republican presidential candidate DID most certainly give aid and comfort to the enemy political camp. It gave them hope, a reason to believe in victory and it gave them energy. Worst of all, it almost worked.
@Right_in_Virginia
Translated out of butt-hurt Republican-speak, you mean your movement is so poor in content that it was barely able to beat the most beatable candidate in decades...
The race to the bottom continues.
-
Nah, you're confused. But bless your wonderful heart @roamer_1
We'll leave a light on for you. :beer:
You are welcome to defend it upon the principles, @Right_in_Virginia , but you won't.
:beer:
-
It was mean. I was implying that turning on a computer and operating it on a basic level is an impressive feat for somebody that voted for Hillary. I figured the crowd here would forgive me. :laugh:
WOW..spoken like a true dem..I'm not buying your epiphany btw.
-
Working for the defeat of the Republican presidential candidate DID most certainly give aid and comfort to the enemy political camp. It gave them hope, a reason to believe in victory and it gave them energy. Worst of all, it almost worked.
There a lot of Bernie Socialcrats who were plenty upset Hillary rigged the Nomination, and they didn't vote for Hillary because of it. This phenomenon exists in all parties, so it take a bit of hubris to think it only happens with Republicans. I wouldn't go so far as to say the Socialcrats provided "aid and comfort" to us.
-
WOW..spoken like a true dem..
Now I'm confused. I am making fun of Hillary supporters.
I'm not buying your epiphany btw.
For real?
-
...for real :2popcorn:
-
NYT agonizes (and I comment):
What if the Republicans Win Everything Again?
Total victory for the G.O.P. would mean Trump unleashed.
Let me pause here to say :silly: :silly: :silly:
Continuing:By David Leonhardt
Opinion Columnist
The end of Robert Mueller’s investigation. [OK] The loss of health insurance for several million people. [Nonsense] New laws that make it harder to vote. [Even more nonsense] More tax cuts for the rich. [Everyone gets tax cuts, doofus] More damage to the environment. [Nonsense] A Republican Party molded even more in the image of President Trump. [Not bloody likely]
These are among the plausible consequences if the Republicans sweep the midterm elections and keep control of both the House and Senate. [Uh, no] And don’t fool yourself. That outcome, although not the most likely one, [then why did you lead with that?] remains possible [and monkeys could fly out your butt]. The last couple of weeks of polling have shown how it could happen.
Voters who lean Republican — including whites across the South — could set aside their disappointment with Trump and vote for Republican congressional candidates. Voters who lean left — including Latinos and younger adults — could turn out in low numbers, as they usually do in midterm elections. The Republicans’ continuing efforts to suppress turnout ???? could also swing a few close elections.
No matter what, Democrats will probably win the popular vote in the House elections, for the first time since 2012. [Maybe] Trump, after all, remains unpopular. [With some folks] But the combination of gerrymandering and the concentration of Democratic voters in major cities means that a popular-vote win won’t automatically translate into a House majority.
In the Senate, the election already seems to be slipping away from the Democrats. [works for me] ...
And now the link to the rest of this sobfest: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/opinion/sunday/midterm-elections-republican-party-trump-senate-house.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/opinion/sunday/midterm-elections-republican-party-trump-senate-house.html)
If only the left's tears were good for anything ...
-
I just love how you ignore that these same "unwavering principled Conservatives" were the ones giving aid and comfort to the Hillary camp by working against the Republican candidate with a voracious zeal.
And whom would those be in particular???
The 'Establishment' leadership of the oligarchy that hands the Democrats their agenda fully-funded?
The ones who have no problem spending my great grandchildren into oblivion on their borrowed tax dime?
Or the pissants like me that had enough of the adultery and abuse and voted third party while there is still opportunity to have a hand in shaping what remains of a dissolving civil society?
Did you really expect the actions by these few to go unchallenged in the heat of a close election??
Working for the defeat of the Republican presidential candidate DID most certainly give aid and comfort to the enemy political camp. It gave them hope, a reason to believe in victory and it gave them energy. Worst of all, it almost worked.
....And one or the other of "those camps" is going to win this war.
Your fellow conpatriots already promised me death for treason for being vocal about my refusal to vote for Trump and go third party during the primary and the General. Liberty does not exist among the Left or the Trumplican 'right'.
So I can care less which mob of thugs and wannabe despots 'win' this 'war'. I find zero difference in them and their behavior only continues to validate my assertion and both 'camps' have illustrated that they are clear and present dangers to my liberty and those of my posterity.
You may choose a Stalin over a Trotsky - but it makes no difference to liberty which of them you decide to make your ruler - liberty loses all the more under the grand lie that one is better than the other.
3 Trillion dollars plus just this year alone with absolutely no willpower or intention to slow the spending and printing money out of thin air means your future is already a barren wasteland.
You just cannot see it yet because your pantry is full, your heat and AC is still working and you have all your entertainment at your fingertips. Once that comes to an abrupt end - it's not going to matter which camp is ruling.
-
...for real :2popcorn:
What exactly do you think I am claiming? I'm not a Republican; I said that in the post. There are things Bernie Sanders says that I agree with and there are things that Ron Paul, Trey Gowdy and other right wing people say that I agree with. I am and always will be a mixed bag. I openly admit I still have some large differences in world view compared to a lot of the posters here. I have absolutely zero partisan loyalty. That's how I was able to come here, make friends and learn things. If I was just another liberal I'd be calling you an idiot and a Nazi sympathizer. I hope that after on and off spending the better part of a decade as part of this community I have proven that I am different. If not, well, honestly that kinda sucks.
-
Not anymore.
Yep that ship has sailed. Us against them time. The middle ground is only for ideological burials now.
-
What exactly do you think I am claiming? I'm not a Republican; I said that in the post. There are things Bernie Sanders says that I agree with and there are things that Ron Paul, Trey Gowdy and other right wing people say that I agree with. I am and always will be a mixed bag. I openly admit I still have some large differences in world view compared to a lot of the posters here. I have absolutely zero partisan loyalty. That's how I was able to come here, make friends and learn things. If I was just another liberal I'd be calling you an idiot and a Nazi sympathizer. I hope that after on and off spending the better part of a decade as part of this community I have proven that I am different. If not, well, honestly that kinda sucks.
So what *title* do you give yourself....Lib, Indy..etc?
-
I still don't know what you mean. Some of us were less than enthused about candidate Trump, but still voted for him because we knew candidate Clinton would be a complete disaster. (That would include me, by the way). So our lack of enthusiasm equates to aid, comfort, hope and a reason to believe? I don't think so.
As for those who voted in 2016 for none of the above or one of the fringe candidates, it still is not fair to say they support the Hilldebeaste. They simply didn't support either of the two major party candidates.
And why are we rehashing 2016 right now anyway? Shouldn't we be focusing on the elections in a few weeks?
Good points all, but your last point is particularly good. Why ARE we still rehashing what has already happened? What's the point? What do we have to do to get it to stop?
-
So what *title* do you give yourself....Lib, Indy..etc?
I don't label myself. One because I don't know of a label I'd fit into and two because I think labels have a very anti-intellectual impact on politics.
-
Good points all, but your last point is particularly good. Why ARE we still rehashing what has already happened? What's the point? What do we have to do to get it to stop?
I'm more worried about Nov 6th right now
-
I don't label myself. One because I don't know of a label I'd fit into and two because I think labels have a very anti-intellectual impact on politics.
I don't label myself anymore either...other than being a conservative
-
Why ARE we still rehashing what has already happened? What's the point? What do we have to do to get it to stop?
If you can answer those questions you would be up for the Nobel next go round.
-
Living in the past is so unproductive.
-
I don't label myself anymore either...other than being a conservative
I do not fit that label across the board. I am conservative on some issues, like immigration and the 2nd amendment. You honestly were the last person I expected to get this kind of vibe from. I thought we've always been cool.
-
I'm more worried about Nov 6th right now
Unity would help. I don't want to watch conservatives destroy themselves even though I am not one of them. The whole point of this thread was "You people are STILL fighting about Trump? You're STILL mad at each other? Get over it and prepare to keep pushing against the left." People can be reasoned with; I will never stop believing that.
-
I don't label myself. One because I don't know of a label I'd fit into and two because I think labels have a very anti-intellectual impact on politics.
I don't think that's true. Labels are nothing but shorthand, and can save a whole lot of time in description.
In a religious context, if the guy I am talking to declares himself a Missouri Synod Lutheran, and I declare myself a Two-House Messianic, that doesn't mean that either of us fit those bills perfectly, but it saves a ton of time describing where we both are coming from.
That's all labels do.
-
I don't think that's true. Labels are nothing but shorthand, and can save a whole lot of time in description.
In a religious context, if the guy I am talking to declares himself a Missouri Synod Lutheran, and I declare myself a Two-House Messianic, that doesn't mean that either of us fit those bills perfectly, but it saves a ton of time describing where we both are coming from.
That's all labels do.
Labels are not without use. There's a reason why they exist. I just think people turn their brains off when they hear certain labels because they're so conditioned to believe nothing good can come from anybody attached to that label. Both sides are very guilty of that. We need to focus on thoughts and ideas, not labels.
-
Unity would help. I don't want to watch conservatives destroy themselves even though I am not one of them. The whole point of this thread was "You people are STILL fighting about Trump? You're STILL mad at each other? Get over it and prepare to keep pushing against the left." People can be reasoned with; I will never stop believing that.
Conservatives have done no such thing. To capitulate and discard Conservatism in order to placate Tumpsters and Tumpsterism would be that destruction.
You will no longer have unity. It will not happen.
Tumpsterism is based in populism and pragmatism, and holds no truth evident.
Conservatism is based in self-evident truth, and the preservation thereof.
There may be some unity where and when the two intersect by chance, but only then, by coincidence. But as a rule, the two are necessarily at crossed purposes, every bit as much as the difference between Conservatives and liberals...
-
I don't want to watch conservatives destroy themselves even though I am not one of them.
Your concern is touching. And interesting.
-
Labels are not without use. There's a reason why they exist. I just think people turn their brains off when they hear certain labels because they're so conditioned to believe nothing good can come from anybody attached to that label. Both sides are very guilty of that. We need to focus on thoughts and ideas, not labels.
Hard to do with folks who only care about popularity and winning.
-
Your concern is touching. And interesting.
Balance is necessary. The Democrats would bleep up everything if conservatism went into hibernation.
-
Unity would help. I don't want to watch conservatives destroy themselves even though I am not one of them. The whole point of this thread was "You people are STILL fighting about Trump? You're STILL mad at each other? Get over it and prepare to keep pushing against the left." People can be reasoned with; I will never stop believing that.
^^^^^^^^ This. This is why I want you to stick around TBR. That's pure optimism (meant in a good way) that I like to read on these threads.
-
^^^^^^^^ This. This is why I want you to stick around TBR. That's pure optimism (meant in a good way) that I like to read on these threads.
Thank you.
Optimism tastes so much better than pessimism. It's more useful too. I think sometimes people need to be reminded that anger and negativity are poisonous. Do everything you can to keep them out of your thoughts and actions. If somebody says something cruel and unfair just remember that that is projection of what they're feeling inside at that moment. You can choose to let it inside of you too or you can refuse to be phased by it.
-
To capitulate and discard Conservatism in order to placate Tumpsters and Tumpsterism would be that destruction.
We have both heard it stated emphatically that only through Trump can Conservatism exist and advance. I reject the idea and the notion completley. Conservatism is not tied down to any individual and not to party either, despite the fact so many insist that it be tied to both person and party. Such a thing is where monarchy and dictatorship are birthed.
Conservatism is based in self-evident truth, and the preservation thereof.
There may be some unity where and when the two intersect by chance, but only then, by coincidence. But as a rule, the two are necessarily at crossed purposes, every bit as much as the difference between Conservatives and liberals...
Wisdom speaks there.
But few are listening.
-
Count me among the few that are.
-
Count me among the few that are.
Same here. There are great deal of us here who are very objective and give the POTUS accolades when he does the right thing, and also provide criticism when he exhibits stupidity.
There is a pretty sizable faction of pro-Trump supporters at TBR who have absolutely no ability to give this POTUS ANY criticism. They then lash out when we question their objectivity. I truly believe they value what ever Trump stands for, before anything as far as a conservative ideology.
I have always and always will be a conservative. & I will not ever become an orange koolaid drinker.
-
Good points all @catfish1957 The problem here, as I see it, is that there are just a few Trumpers that are constantly 'in heat' and the few 'Conservatives' that refuse to budge are just thrown in the 'Never' trash can, to be 'wished away' at the earliest opportunity.
The great majority of Briefers are not hard core either way and are certainly a calming influence on most of us.
It's what makes this place exciting.