The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on September 25, 2013, 03:37:54 pm
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http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/324449-white-house-obamacare-premiums-cheaper-than-expected (http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/324449-white-house-obamacare-premiums-cheaper-than-expected)
ObamaCare premiums cheaper than expected, says White House
By Sam Baker - 09/25/13 08:49 AM ET
The Obama administration released some rate information Wednesday for the healthcare plans sold through ObamaCare, saying the rates came in 16 percent cheaper than expected.
The White House was eager to tout the rate information, which it released just a week before the window opens to begin enrolling in coverage through the law's new insurance marketplaces.
On Tuesday, President Obama urged the uninsured to ignore the fierce political debate over the healthcare law and see for themselves next week how much they would have to pay for coverage.
Premiums will vary from state to state and will change even more depending on factors such as smoking status, age and geography within the state.
But on average, across the 36 states where the federal government is running the insurance marketplaces, premiums next year will be 16 percent lower than expected, the Health and Human Services Department said in a report.
For a 27-year-old consumer in one of those states, the premium for a bare-bones catastrophic plan would be $129 per month; the cheapest traditional plan would carry a premium of $163.
But most consumers who buy insurance through the new marketplaces won't pay for the full premium themselves. Low-income consumers will receive tax subsidies to help cover the cost of their premiums.
Once the tax credits are applied, the average monthly premium for a young adult falls below $100 for a cheap policy.
A 27-year-old making $25,000 per year would pay $83 per month for the cheapest "bronze" level plan in Texas, HHS said. The same 27-year-old would pay $96 in Florida.
In some cases, the credits will cover the entire premium, making healthcare essentially free for the consumer.
Although the premiums beat expectations, some consumers — particularly the young and healthy — will still pay more for an individual policy next year than they would now.
Gary Cohen, the director of the HHS office handling most of the implementation effort, said those comparisons should take into account the more generous coverage consumers will generally get from ObamaCare plans.
“The health insurance people will be buying will actually cover them," Cohen said. "There have been a lot of products on the market where people thought they had insurance but then it didn’t cover hospitals, for example.”
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Tennessee: Obamacare will triple men's premiums, double women's (http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-report-tennesee-men-face-290-women-197-obamacare-hike/article/2536363)
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Tennessee: Obamacare will triple men's premiums, double women's (http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-report-tennesee-men-face-290-women-197-obamacare-hike/article/2536363)
If what we've seen is cheaper What we're they expecting them to be?
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It's the traitorous media doing it's job again. The White House knowingly lies. The media reports it as solid fact, no challenge, no investigation. Many in the stupid American public believe the media in spite of what they see in their lives. The brighter of the sheep are simply confused.
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It's the traitorous media doing it's job again. The White House knowingly lies. The media reports it as solid fact, no challenge, no investigation. Many in the stupid American public believe the media in spite of what they see in their lives. The brighter of the sheep are simply confused.
It has become common practice for the media simply to quote the White House as a source to defend what the White House says. I have yet to see a major media source do an independent investigation of the numbers the WH releases. Journalism is dead. It is all propaganda.
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The media here in Texas is saying that for a family of 4, the cost will be just $11 per month.
No freaking way that is true.
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The media here in Texas is saying that for a family of 4, the cost will be just $11 per month.
No freaking way that is true.
Hell, I pay about 10 times that for a family of two on a pretty good corporate plan. No way it will be $11/month.
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The media here in Texas is saying that for a family of 4, the cost will be just $11 per month.
No freaking way that is true.
It might be possible if the family is on welfare.
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Maybe that is what the penalty for not having insurance figures out to be on monthly basis.
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The media here in Texas is saying that for a family of 4, the cost will be just $11 per month.
No freaking way that is true.
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/health-care/20130924-obamacare-premiums-projected-to-be-lower-than-expected.ece
Obamacare premiums projected to be lower than expected
JIM LANDERS
Washington Bureau
jlanders@dallasnews.com
Updated: 25 September 2013 10:23 AM
WASHINGTON — Beginning Oct. 1, Dallas-area consumers will have a choice of 43 private health plans priced lower than expected under the online federal exchange of the Affordable Care Act, officials announced Tuesday.
The details — which insurers are offering plans, for instance — won’t be available until the exchange opens. According to a brief report from the Obama administration about the premiums companies plan to charge, however, a Dallas-area family of four making $50,000 a year could pay as little as $26 a month for health insurance once federal tax credits are applied.
Congressional Republicans are trying to delay the insurance exchanges by halting funding for the Affordable Care Act. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, began an hours-long speech Tuesday afternoon on the Senate floor opposing the law.
Even if Congress fails to fund the government beyond Oct. 1, the administration is determined to make health insurance available to millions of uninsured Americans beginning Jan. 1.
“Many of the core parts of the health plan are operated under mandatory funding and wouldn’t be affected” by a shutdown, said Gary Cohen, director of the center for consumer information and insurance oversight with the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.
Under the Affordable Care Act, those who can afford a plan but choose to remain uninsured will face a tax penalty that rises from 1 percent of income in 2014 to 2.5 percent in 2016.
“In just 99 days, millions of Americans will finally have the security and peace of mind that have eluded them for years as coverage begins,” said Secretary of Health Kathleen Sebelius.
People who get health insurance through work, with Medicare or Medicare Advantage or through Medicaid won’t be affected by the new health insurance exchange.
All of the plans offered in the federal exchange (and in 17 states that will operate their own) cover emergencies, hospitalization and surgeries, pregnancy, mental health, pharmaceuticals and rehabilitation services as well as vision and dental needs for children.
The U.S. Health and Human Services Department released a 15-page summary Tuesday afternoon of the plans to be available on the exchanges.
The average individual Texas policyholder regardless of age and income would face a $305 monthly premium for the benchmark plan covering 70 percent of medical costs. Individuals making up to $46,000 would be eligible for tax credits to offset that cost.
The Society of Actuaries took a detailed look at the cost of individual insurance and estimated the monthly premium for the average individual policy in Texas would go from $249 in 2013 to $333 in 2014 under the Affordable Care Act.
Cohen said estimates derived from the Congressional Budget Office’s look ahead to 2016 found premiums coming in 16 percent below projections.
For a 27-year-old making $25,000 a year in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, the benchmark plan will average $223 a month. With tax credits applied against that cost, the premium would fall to $145 a month, according to the report.
Participants would be able to choose from 43 qualified health plans. The costs are projected to be:
$153 a month for the lowest-price bronze plan.
$217 a month for the lowest-price silver plan.
$266 a month for the lowest-price gold plan.
$173 a month for the catastrophic plan.
A single 27-year-old in Dallas would pay $223 for the second-least-expensive silver plan; after the tax credit pegged to that plan, the cost would be $145 a month. Using the tax credit, the 27-year-old could buy a bronze plan for $74 a month.
A family of four with $50,000 income could buy the second-least-expensive silver plan for $808 a month. With the tax credit, that drops to $282 a month. The family could also apply the tax credit to buy a bronze plan for $26 a month.
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The key sentence.......... once federal tax credits are applied.
Who is the Federal Tax Credit!!! US Taxpayers, that is who.
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The key sentence.......... once federal tax credits are applied.
Who is the Federal Tax Credit!!! US Taxpayers, that is who.
The Republican plan just introduced last week also contained tax credits of over $10,000 for families and $5,000 for individuals. Taxpayers would pay those as well.
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The Republican plan just introduced last week also contained tax credits of over $10,000 for families and $5,000 for individuals. Taxpayers would pay those as well.
I don't think anyone should get any tax credits for anything.. I think we should have either the Fair Tax or a Flat Tax so don't throw thatat me, it won't play. What I see is you are desperate to convince people this bill has to take effect come hell or high water.
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I don't think anyone should get any tax credits for anything.. I think we should have either the Fair Tax or a Flat Tax so don't throw thatat me, it won't play. What I see is you are desperate to convince people this bill has to take effect come hell or high water.
No. I don't want this bill to take effect. But it's going to take effect. And it's going to be a disaster, which is what I've said all along. We'll see how much pressure voters put on Democrats when they have to change doctors, travel 50 miles to find a hospital that will take their plan, and wait months for standard tests.
Letting Obamacare collapse of its own weight was always the only thing that will work. Dreaming that the Senate would defund or that Obama would sign a defunding was silly.
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Even if it would collapse on its own weight, the democrats would push a single payer plan and succeed.
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The media sure is capitalizing on the glitch in the software giving wrong pricing information. The administration has already admitted they still have no clue how much it will cost people.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324807704579085472970959370.html
Makes you wonder if the glitch wasn't intentional to get stories like this.
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http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,114396.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,114396.0.html)
Obamacare Triples Kentucky Family's Insurance Overnight
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Even if it would collapse on its own weight, the democrats would push a single payer plan and succeed.
If the tea partiers don't shoot everyone on the Republican side, and the GOP takes the Senate, the Democrats aren't going to succeed at anything.
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Even if it would collapse on its own weight, the democrats would push a single payer plan and succeed.
I agree, but, many Americans are desirous of a single payer plan. The public has been groomed to see government as the solution to their problems. While Obamacare is a train wreck, single payer will be a 1000 car pile up.
With a stupid public and a traitorous media, the only viable option is to let them have what they want, and protect yourself as best you can. Maybe, just maybe, if the public gets a first hand dose of what they want, they'll realize they were sold a bill of goods. If that doesn't convince them, then we have no chance either way.
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So the $127.20 a month increase in my medical contribution could have been much worse? I feel soooooo relieved.
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No. I don't want this bill to take effect. But it's going to take effect. And it's going to be a disaster, which is what I've said all along. We'll see how much pressure voters put on Democrats when they have to change doctors, travel 50 miles to find a hospital that will take their plan, and wait months for standard tests.
Letting Obamacare collapse of its own weight was always the only thing that will work. Dreaming that the Senate would defund or that Obama would sign a defunding was silly.
If your desire was for it to collapse you would not be fighting so hard to save it.
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If your desire was for it to collapse you would not be fighting so hard to save it.
I'm not fighting to save it. I know a lost cause, and this whole defunding effort is stupid, ridiculous and it will fail. I just hope Boehner doesn't shut down the government and poison the well for 2014.
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I'm not fighting to save it. I know a lost cause, and this whole defunding effort is stupid, ridiculous and it will fail. I just hope Boehner doesn't shut down the government and poison the well for 2014.
It's never over until it's over.... and fighting the people who are actually fighting the fight is supporting the opposition no matter how you choose to frame the excuse.
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If the tea partiers don't shoot everyone on the Republican side, and the GOP takes the Senate, the Democrats aren't going to succeed at anything.
You speak as though the Republicans, should they go on to capture the Senate in 2014 would suddenly be willing to defund ObamaCare. Most will not.
A. They don't have the guts or spines to attempt such a thing, especially in the face of what will be a media-driven, Progressive foundation-funded firestorm of opposition, featuring crying babies, starving widows, and homeless elderly couples. In our Left-dominated culture, such appeals will work, as they always do. When brave people stand up to it, they are demonized - by both parties - and often, falsely accused of being motivated by nothing but greed or self-interest.
B. Obama would veto any such measure, just as he would today. He must go.
C. ObamaCare will not simply "collapse" of its own impossible regulatory weight, leaving fertile ground for GOP-led reform. It was designed to fail... after causing private medical service providers and insurance companies to fail first, and to incite public chaos in the process. The plan is to create a consensus demand for single-payer, government-run insurance. Don't believe me? Read their books, position papers, and articles. It's been their plan for years.
D. Defeating ObamaCare will take years, and will require the leadership of a national political party that is actually informed by conservative principles, not Progressive ones, as are both parties today. It will require leaders capable of defending both individual liberty and a Constitution of limited government and of explaining why such principles matter and why they are right.
If in the end, Tea Party members are the only ones left in America still fighting for such things, I suspect they will have long forgotten the insults hurled their way by socialists and Democrats.
They may not be quite as solicitous of those on the Republican side who ought to have supported them when there was still time to save the nation.
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So the $127.20 a month increase in my medical contribution could have been much worse? I feel soooooo relieved.
"Contribution" = taxes. The Obamacare wing nuts will probably use the word contribution, and hope everyone else does also, so it hides the tax aspect. :bs:
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You speak as though the Republicans, should they go on to capture the Senate in 2014 would suddenly be willing to defund ObamaCare. Most will not.
Put words in people's mouths much? I never said that. Nobody is going to defund Obamacare. The bill will have to be repealed.
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So the $127.20 a month increase in my medical contribution could have been much worse? I feel soooooo relieved.
I only have catastrophic and mine almost doubled this month! :thud:
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Put words in people's mouths much? I never said that. Nobody is going to defund Obamacare. The bill will have to be repealed.
Fine. No one is going to repeal ObamaCare if conservatives are treated like dirt by a GOP Establishment that will not and has not fought to reduce the size, scope, reach and expense of the Federal government, EVER.
They are PROGRESSIVES, just like the Democrats. They want big government, just slower, a bit softer, and perhaps, using more lubricant.
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Fine. No one is going to repeal ObamaCare if conservatives are treated like dirt by a GOP Establishment that will not and has not fought to reduce the size, scope, reach and expense of the Federal government, EVER.
They are PROGRESSIVES, just like the Democrats. They want big government, just slower, a bit softer, and perhaps, using more lubricant.
Nobody has reduced the size of government since Calvin Coolidge. Even the sainted Ronald Reagan grew the government. Slowing its growth is the only option.
Repealing or even defunding Obamacare cannot happen when the repealers occupy one House of Congress. That's the way our government works.
This quixotic mission to defund was always doomed. But, it will increase the coffers of Freedom Works, Heritage Action, and one Theodore Cruz.
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Nobody has reduced the size of government since Calvin Coolidge. Even the sainted Ronald Reagan grew the government. Slowing its growth is the only option.
Repealing or even defunding Obamacare cannot happen when the repealers occupy one House of Congress. That's the way our government works.
This quixotic mission to defund was always doomed. But, it will increase the coffers of Freedom Works, Heritage Action, and one Theodore Cruz.
Among others...
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Nobody has reduced the size of government since Calvin Coolidge. Even the sainted Ronald Reagan grew the government. Slowing its growth is the only option.
Repealing or even defunding Obamacare cannot happen when the repealers occupy one House of Congress. That's the way our government works.
This quixotic mission to defund was always doomed. But, it will increase the coffers of Freedom Works, Heritage Action, and one Theodore Cruz.
Back in Reagan's day (and I know because I was there), the government and our debt were still small enough that GDP growth could conceivably outpace both, given a program of reduced taxes and regulation. That government spending expanded at all was a function of the need to replenish a threadbare military force facing a dangerous Soviet expansionism.
We're in a different world now. Federal spending in 1984 was $851.81 billion. In 2013 it is projected to be $3.685 Trillion. Our gross public debt in 1984 was $1.564 trillion. Now it is $17.249 trillion. Our unfunded public liabilities now exceed $125 trillion, with a shrinking workforce, a zero birth rate, millions of illegal aliens about to be added to the Federal Hammock, and ObamaCare about to add to the already impossible mathematics that spells "doom". We've passed the last exit on the Road to Disaster.
The forces standing up and admitting to this unfolding nightmare do not include the Republican Party leadership, its head firmly in the sand, up its own posterior, or else enjoying the cocktails your money continues to buy them before they jet off to wherever they plan to go with their offshore accounts before this whole mother blows up, which, in point of fact and with absolute mathematical certitude, it will.
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No. I don't want this bill to take effect. But it's going to take effect. And it's going to be a disaster, which is what I've said all along. We'll see how much pressure voters put on Democrats when they have to change doctors, travel 50 miles to find a hospital that will take their plan, and wait months for standard tests.
Letting Obamacare collapse of its own weight was always the only thing that will work. Dreaming that the Senate would defund or that Obama would sign a defunding was silly.
You're correct. The old "collapse under it's own weight" strategy has worked so well in crippling and taking under Social Security and the "War On Poverty".
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You're correct. The old "collapse under it's own weight" strategy has worked so well in crippling and taking under Social Security and the "War On Poverty".
Has there ever been a government program that ended by collapsing under its own weight or do they just continue to grow like a cancer on a whale?
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Has there ever been a government program that ended by collapsing under its own weight or do they just continue to grow like a cancer on a whale?
The Post Office just raised its rates again 5.9%.
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We are approaching 80% GDP........ so, Sink, when will you be willing to say enough, and bite the bullet? Obamacare was promised (joke) to be less than a trillion. CBO now places it at a trillion and a half. That is a trillion and a half that never needed to be spent, many hidden taxes that didn't need to be raised and an unfathomable number of people who now have to work two jobs instead of one because they no longer have a 40-hour work week. You keep saying you want it to take effect so it can collapse knowing if (and that is a huge if) if collapses we will all be placed on a single payer system.. not a Medicare quality but a medicaid quality plan. Doctors are already quiting and people are changing their minds about medical school, hospitals are laying off staff and some are outright closing... Frankly I think anyone in either party who doesn't fight like hell to stop this is incredibly selfish.
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We are approaching 80% GDP........ so, Sink, when will you be willing to say enough, and bite the bullet? Obamacare was promised (joke) to be less than a trillion. CBO now places it at a trillion and a half. That is a trillion and a half that never needed to be spent, many hidden taxes that didn't need to be raised and an unfathomable number of people who now have to work two jobs instead of one because they no longer have a 40-hour work week. You keep saying you want it to take effect so it can collapse knowing if (and that is a huge if) if collapses we will all be placed on a single payer system.. not a Medicare quality but a medicaid quality plan. Doctors are already quiting and people are changing their minds about medical school, hospitals are laying off staff and some are outright closing... Frankly I think anyone in either party who doesn't fight like hell to stop this is incredibly selfish.
:amen: If we don't fight for what we believe in, then we are the equivalent about what Cruz talked about, 'Nazi Appeasers". There would not have been a holocaust of people spoke up right away. Waiting for the right time is too late.
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Has there ever been a government program that ended by collapsing under its own weight or do they just continue to grow like a cancer on a whale?
That was a sarcastic comment.
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Well.. I will go with Forbes over the Dallas Morning News - especially since Saturday they announced someone screwed up the computer program and the WRONG numbers were being quoted to people.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/?partner=yahootix
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You're correct. The old "collapse under it's own weight" strategy has worked so well in crippling and taking under Social Security and the "War On Poverty".
You wanna kill Social Security? What idiotic politician would advocate killing a program that benefits every person over 65?
Are you friggin' serious.?
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The Post Office just raised its rates again 5.9%.
You don't have to use the Post Office. I don't.
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We are approaching 80% GDP........ so, Sink, when will you be willing to say enough, and bite the bullet? Obamacare was promised (joke) to be less than a trillion. CBO now places it at a trillion and a half. That is a trillion and a half that never needed to be spent, many hidden taxes that didn't need to be raised and an unfathomable number of people who now have to work two jobs instead of one because they no longer have a 40-hour work week. You keep saying you want it to take effect so it can collapse knowing if (and that is a huge if) if collapses we will all be placed on a single payer system.. not a Medicare quality but a medicaid quality plan. Doctors are already quiting and people are changing their minds about medical school, hospitals are laying off staff and some are outright closing... Frankly I think anyone in either party who doesn't fight like hell to stop this is incredibly selfish.
Well, we just disagree.
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Well, we just disagree.
So you don't care how high the GDP to deficit grows? Is that your response?
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So you don't care how high the GDP to deficit grows? Is that your response?
I vote for conservative Republicans here in Texas every election. I don't do demonstrations, marches, or send donations to politicians.
I rescue abandoned dogs. Pissing away valuable time and money on politics is not something I'm going to do.
But I do vote, faithfully. Even for City Council and School Board.
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And you dance on the head of a pin rather than ever answer a direct question. You may vote for Republicans.. not necessarily "conservatives" however -- IIRC you voted for Dewhurst over Cruz in the Primary and you were dead set that Paul was not going to win KY and you never in a million years thought McCain would choose Palin even when we were saying that is exactly who he was going to pick....... you supported Rove support Castle in DE and joined in with Rove in denigrating both Angle and O'Donnell... rather than follow the 11th commandment you like to throw out once they were the party candidate. I lost track of who you were actually supporting in 2012... one day you liked Perry the next day you hated him and then the next you liked Romney until the 47% tape came out.... so pardon me if I frankly take your positions seriously.
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And you dance on the head of a pin rather than ever answer a direct question. You may vote for Republicans.. not necessarily "conservatives" however -- IIRC you voted for Dewhurst over Cruz in the Primary and you were dead set that Paul was not going to win KY and you never in a million years thought McCain would choose Palin even when we were saying that is exactly who he was going to pick....... you supported Rove support Castle in DE and joined in with Rove in denigrating both Angle and O'Donnell... rather than follow the 11th commandment you like to throw out once they were the party candidate. I lost track of who you were actually supporting in 2012... one day you liked Perry the next day you hated him and then the next you liked Romney until the 47% tape came out.... so pardon me if I frankly take your positions seriously.
Your memory is seriously defective, though I have no interest in correcting your faulty recollections.
Rap, I lose sleep wondering what you think of me. I really do.
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Your memory is seriously defective, though I have no interest in correcting your faulty recollections.
Rap, I lose sleep wondering what you think of me. I really do.
Actually, my memory is VERY good.
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Just did a bit of digging and not only is this probably based on the broken calculator I posted the story about up-thread, the results from several other sources contradict the findings.
Forbes- Double Down: Obamacare Will Increase Avg. Individual-Market Insurance Premiums By 99% For Men, 62% For Women
...Based on a Manhattan Institute analysis of the HHS numbers, Obamacare will increase underlying insurance rates for younger men by an average of 97 to 99 percent, and for younger women by an average of 55 to 62 percent. Worst off is North Carolina, which will see individual-market rates triple for women, and quadruple for men.
HHS releases a trickle of data and a load of spin....
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/
Hot Air- The Obamacare “lower premiums” shell game
...The headlines are carefully scripted to give one impression, but the reality is something else. You have to check with a few sources to find it, though.
Insurance premiums for some consumers in Maryland will go up by as much as 25 percent once ObamaCare takes full effect next year.
The state on Friday released final insurance rates for the private insurance policies available next year through the new insurance exchange created by ObamaCare…
...So the headlines being pitched attempt to make you think costs are going down. They aren’t. In fact, they are going up everywhere. But hey… it’s not like anyone promised us that Obamacare would actually reduce rates, right? ...
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/28/the-obamacare-lower-premiums-shell-game/
As the old saying goes (paraphrased), You never know how something can be until the government makes it 'free'.
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I may have missed this point but there is another dimension to ObamaCare that really ought be sufficient cause to oppose it. Namely, everyone is REQUIRED to enroll; except, of course, the politically favored.
Where did the government ever get the authority to make me buy something I may not want (John Roberts notwithstanding). There would be no issue about cost if I never had to buy it in the first place, would there?
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I may have missed this point but there is another dimension to ObamaCare that really ought be sufficient cause to oppose it. Namely, everyone is REQUIRED to enroll; except, of course, the politically favored.
Where did the government ever get the authority to make me buy something I may not want (John Roberts notwithstanding). There would be no issue about cost if I never had to buy it in the first place, would there?
That is, of course, the most excellent point. It is a massive over-reach of power that opens the door to complete control over everything. If they can require us to buy the specific one-size-fits-all policy they require, what is to stop them from requiring us to buy specific food, drive specific cars (or none at all), mandate what job we have, etc? All in the name of the common good.
...and the insurance companies love it because they are guaranteed millions of permanent customers with little to no competition.
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Enrolling in Obamacare is optional. If one doesn't enroll, he/she pays a penalty that is always less than the yearly premiums.
Young people are smart enough to figure this out. The idea that hordes of 20-somethings are going to sign up for Obamacare is a pipe dream, especially when they can wait until they actually need insurance and sign up then.
Remember, nobody can be turned down for insurance for any reason.
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Oh, look, AbaraXas, we are wrong: Enrolling in Obamacare is optional
Of course, if you don't enroll, you get to pay a fine which IS required.
Now don't you feel better?
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Enrolling in Obamacare is optional. If one doesn't enroll, he/she pays a penalty that is always less than the yearly premiums.
That is like saying going the speed limit is optional. If you choose not to, you just pay the penalty (tickets).
And who is to say that it will always be less than yearly premiums. With little to no competition in the private insurance market, what is to keep premiums down?
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Oh, look, AbaraXas, we are wrong: Enrolling in Obamacare is optional
Of course, if you don't enroll, you get to pay a fine which IS required.
Now don't you feel better?
So much better now. And I found out driving sober is optional to. If I choose not to drive sober, I just have to pay the fine (and do some time).
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That is like saying going the speed limit is optional. If you choose not to, you just pay the penalty (tickets).
And who is to say that it will always be less than yearly premiums. With little to no competition in the private insurance market, what is to keep premiums down?
That's what I'm saying. Premiums will always be higher than any penalty.
Laugh if you want, but young people are smart enough to know that paying less is better than paying more. And, unlike your traffic ticket example, there is no downside to simply paying the penalty.
The fact is, Obama wants 7 million young people to sign up by March 31. He won't get near that.
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So much better now. And I found out driving sober is optional to. If I choose not to drive sober, I just have to pay the fine (and do some time).
Posting sober is optional as well. You ought to try it.
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Sinkspur fails to grasp government coercion is applicable in both cases...or doesn't care.
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sink...you just filed a post report on another member for being rude and here you are on this thread doing the same thing.... :chairbang: :chairbang: :chairbang:
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Oh, oh.
I missed his latest cheap shop:
Posting sober is optional as well. You ought to try it.
Yep, lad adds a lot to the Forum.
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sink...you just filed a post report on another member for being rude and here you are on this thread doing the same thing.... :chairbang: :chairbang: :chairbang:
Where am I being rude? Seriously.
I notice you let my report slide, so I guess rudeness is acceptable.
It's gotten to the point where I can't even disagree with anybody without being accused of an attack. This place is loaded with thin-skinned people.
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sink...you just filed a post report on another member for being rude and here you are on this thread doing the same thing.... :chairbang: :chairbang: :chairbang:
Just like a collectivist. Apologist for government control of healthcare and wants to control speech on a private forum too... jeeze. Who would report 'rudeness'. That is lame. (and BTW, I can't remember the last time I had more than a glass of wine or a beer in a day).
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Where am I being rude? Seriously.
I notice you let my report slide, so I guess rudeness is acceptable.
It's gotten to the point where I can't even disagree with anybody without being accused of an attack. This place is loaded with thin-skinned people.
You are the only one filing post reports...I ignore most of them because you are all adults and should settle your differences like adults......if you want to insult people go ahead...but be prepared for the same....
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You are the only one filing post reports...I ignore most of them because you are all adults and should settle your differences like adults......if you want to insult people go ahead...but be prepared for the same....
OK. No more reports. And tell your moderators to adopt the same policy you have.
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What good news! See, this just might be so bad after all.
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Well, well, well.. imagine this. Karl Rove - on Greta - these numbers are baldfaced lies (per Rove) he showed the real numbers on Greta's program. Said the numbers come from the Manhattan Institute and they have done a lot of crunching numbers based on actual state-by-state contact with all the insurance carriers........
Famous .. in NC the rates are going up over 300%..... so watch Hagen and see how she handles this...
Rove said Sibelius released old, outdated and totally incorrect data.