The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on March 06, 2015, 02:51:23 pm
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http://thehill.com/homenews/house/234766-dems-would-back-boehner-in-coup-attempt (http://thehill.com/homenews/house/234766-dems-would-back-boehner-in-coup-attempt)
By Mike Lillis - 03/06/15 06:00 AM EST
Tea Party Republicans contemplating a bid to oust Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio) shouldn't count on Democrats to help them unseat the Speaker.
And without their support, there is no chance to topple Boehner in this Congress.
A number of right-wing Republicans, long-wary of Boehner's commitment to GOP efforts attacking President Obama's policy priorities, have openly considered a coup in an attempt to transfer the gavel into more conservative hands.
But Democrats from across an ideological spectrum say they'd rather see Boehner remain atop the House than replace him with a more conservative Speaker who would almost certainly be less willing to reach across the aisle in search of compromise. Replacing him with a Tea Party Speaker, they say, would only bring the legislative process — already limping along — to a screeching halt.
“I'd probably vote for Boehner [because] who the hell is going to replace him? [Ted] Yoho?,” Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.) said Wednesday, referencing the Florida Tea Party Republican who’s fought Boehner on a host of bipartisan compromise bills.
“In terms of the institution, I would rather have John Boehner as the Speaker than some of these characters who came here thinking that they're going to change the world,” Pascrell added.
Liberal Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.) agreed that for Democrats, replacing Boehner could lead to a worse situation.
“Then we would get Scalise or somebody? Geez, come on,” said Grijalva, who referenced House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.). “We can be suicidal, but not stupid.”
Boehner, who has grappled with dissent from the Tea Party wing since he took the Speaker's gavel in 2011, has seen opposition to his reign grow this year, even as he commands the largest GOP majority since the Hoover administration.
That’s led to talk of a new coup, something that is more difficult to pull off after the election of a Speaker on each Congress’s first day of business.
Any lawmaker may file a motion to “vacate” a sitting Speaker, a move that would force a vote of the full House. The effort would almost certainly fail, as the conservatives would need the overwhelming support of Democrats to win a majority. But it would be an embarrassing setback to Boehner and his leadership team, who entered the year hoping their commanding new majority would alleviate some of the whipping problems that had plagued them in the past.
The new push-back against Boehner began in the earliest stages of the new Congress when 25 conservatives voted in January to strip him of the Speaker's gavel.
Boehner's troubles have only mounted since then, as conservatives have thwarted a number of his early legislative priorities, including a border security bill, an anti-abortion measure and a proposal to limit the federal government's role in public education — all considered by GOP leaders to be easy-pass bills that would highlight their new power in Obama's final two years in the White House.
More recently, Boehner's decision this week to pass a “clean” bill funding the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has exacerbated conservatives concerns about his leadership.
As proof of the discontent, 167 Republicans bucked their leadership by opposing the DHS package. Their votes protested Boehner's move to strip out provisions undoing Obama's executive actions shielding millions of undocumented immigrants from deportation.
Rep. Matt Salmon (R-Ariz.) called Boehner's capitulation “a sad day for America.”
“If we aren't going to fight now, when are we going to fight?” he said Tuesday just before the vote.
Every Democrat joined 75 Republicans in passing the bill.
In the midst of that debate, a number of Tea Party Republicans warned that they'd consider an attempt to topple Boehner if he caved to Obama's demand for a clean DHS bill.
“If it happened, conservatives would be outraged,” said one such conservative who voted against Boehner in January. The lawmaker predicted that the coup attempt might not come immediately, but warned the Speaker that “it’s a long year.”
Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), chairman of the conservative Freedom Caucus and a critic of Boehner's legislative moves, said recently that no coup is in the works.
“That's not the point,” Jordan said on CNN's “State of the Union” program. “The point is to do what we told the voters we were going to do and do it in a way that's consistent with the United States Constitution.”
Citing Jordan's comments, top Democrats have punted on the question of whether they would support a coup. Rep. Steny Hoyer (Md.), the Democratic whip, acknowledged that there are “some disgruntled people who are talking about it,” but predicted that no such effort will materialize.
“If Jordan's not talking about — he's the head of the Freedom Caucus — it's not going to happen,” Hoyer said this week.
Rep. G.K. Butterfield (D-N.C.), the head of the Congressional Black Caucus, suggested the Democratic minority simply has no place deciding the Speakership for the majority.
“If they've got the votes to make it happen, then they should act accordingly. But I would not want Democrats to be a part of that,” Butterfield said. “I would give deference to the choice of the Republicans.”
Still, some Democrats noted the political advantages for their party if the Republican divisions reach the point where Boehner is ousted. The Democrats have almost no shot of winning back the House in 2016, but highlighting the GOP turmoil could help them bite away at the Republicans' majority.
“I think it would pose a real existential dilemma for us,” said Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-Va.). “I mean, on the one hand, if you have a chance to take out a Republican Speaker, why wouldn't you do that? On the other hand, if the obvious alternative is a Tea Party Speaker, now you've got to worry not only about your own political situation but frankly about the institution.
“I think that would give very serious pause to the Democrats.”
Other Democrats suggested they would side with Boehner for one simple reason: They're hoping to move bipartisan legislation this Congress and see Boehner as a more moderate leader with a penchant for compromise.
“Personally, I don't want to waste two years,” Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) said Wednesday. “And I think that the crazy Tea Party type would probably not be willing to work with us on anything.
"My hope is that what comes out of this is that Boehner realizes that there are some people in his caucus who are unreasonable, and you can never get them to say 'yes' to anything,” McGovern added. “Rather than spending so much time agonizing over how to please them, maybe he just ought to focus on how you build more bipartisan coalitions and actually get some things done.”
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has declined to weigh in on the conservatives' discontent. Hinting at her own radioactive image in the eyes of Republicans, she vowed not to get involved in the debate.
“I don't have any intention of getting involved in the politics of that Caucus,” she said recently. “They have enough trouble getting along with each other. I don't think I should inject myself into that.”
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Why wouldn't they? He seems to work very well with them!
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The DEMS love Boehner as he always votes with them and sides with them. He is a RINO! RINO's won't retain our majority nor will they help us to get into the oval office. Cruz/Walker/Perry/Jindal 2016!!
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“Personally, I don't want to waste two years,” Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) said Wednesday. “And I think that the crazy Tea Party type would probably not be willing to work with us on anything.
But the establishment will do what we want, because we're a one-party nation now. :chairbang:
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BOEHNER-ALIGNED GROUP EXPANDS ANTI-REPUBLICAN PRO OBAMA EXECUTIVE AMNESTY AD CAMPAIGN WITH RENEE ELLMERS AT CENTER
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/06/boehner-aligned-group-expands-anti-republican-pro-obama-executive-amnesty-ad-campaign-with-renee-ellmers-at-center/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/06/boehner-aligned-group-expands-anti-republican-pro-obama-executive-amnesty-ad-campaign-with-renee-ellmers-at-center/)
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Why wouldn't they? He seems to work very well with them!
Yes, they have learned he is a reliable ally
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Paging our pragmatists! Paging our pragmatists!...
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This nugget should be included in history's story about why the GOP went the route of the Whigs.
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The DEMS love Boehner as he always votes with them and sides with them. He is a RINO! RINO's won't retain our majority nor will they help us to get into the oval office. Cruz/Walker/Perry/Jindal 2016!!
Your entire post is completely wrong. But, so is most of the rest of this thread. Boehner and McConnell tried the TP strategy on DHS funding. It was a complete failure. Yet, the TPers will no doubt want the very same approach on every other major issue. It won't work, but, hey GOPBR will be here cheering them on.
The conversion of this place to TOS is complete.
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Your entire post is completely wrong. But, so is most of the rest of this thread. Boehner and McConnell tried the TP strategy on DHS funding. It was a complete failure. Yet, the TPers will no doubt want the very same approach on every other major issue. It won't work, but, hey GOPBR will be here cheering them on.
The conversion of this place to TOS is complete.
How? They never passed the bill. The Senate never used reconciliation as you're supposed to do in budget bills. They did the same thing they did last time—CAVED. They QUIT. They stopped short of actually using their legislative authority to push a bill to the President's desk. They don't even realize who controls the legislature. If they did, the bill would have made it to his desk.
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Your entire post is completely wrong. But, so is most of the rest of this thread. Boehner and McConnell tried the TP strategy on DHS funding. It was a complete failure. Yet, the TPers will no doubt want the very same approach on every other major issue. It won't work, but, hey GOPBR will be here cheering them on.
The conversion of this place to TOS is complete.
Pretty much.
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Your entire post is completely wrong. But, so is most of the rest of this thread. Boehner and McConnell tried the TP strategy on DHS funding. It was a complete failure. Yet, the TPers will no doubt want the very same approach on every other major issue. It won't work, but, hey GOPBR will be here cheering them on.
The conversion of this place to TOS is complete.
Hyperbole much?
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What is TOS please?
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TOS = The other site. A veiled reference to free republic.
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How? They never passed the bill. The Senate never used reconciliation as you're supposed to do in budget bills. They did the same thing they did last time—CAVED. They QUIT. They stopped short of actually using their legislative authority to push a bill to the President's desk. They don't even realize who controls the legislature. If they did, the bill would have made it to his desk.
It takes 60 votes to go to reconciliation conference, and the dems wouldn't do it.
Without 2/3 to override a Presidential veto, the 60 vote threshold doesn't mean much, either.
Right wing political forums appear to be very severely math challenged, and ironically Constitution challenged as well.
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It takes 60 votes to go to reconciliation conference, and the dems wouldn't do it.
Without 2/3 to override a Presidential veto, the 60 vote threshold doesn't mean much, either.
Right wing political forums appear to be very severely math challenged, and ironically Constitution challenged as well.
If Mitch McConnell can't persuade however many Democrats to vote with the GOP - then what good is he as leader? Really? What special talent does he have that he is the best man for the job? Maybe it's time to let someone else that has the ability to barter, cajole, negotiate or whatever is needed to bring some of them around? What good is he?
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Your entire post is completely wrong. But, so is most of the rest of this thread. Boehner and McConnell tried the TP strategy on DHS funding. It was a complete failure. Yet, the TPers will no doubt want the very same approach on every other major issue. It won't work, but, hey GOPBR will be here cheering them on.
The conversion of this place to TOS is complete.
No Sink! What YOU consider tried and the honest conservatives here consider tried are two entirely different things!
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TOS = The other site. A veiled reference to free republic.
LOL I guess I should have known that. Never been back
In that case I think I have to disagree with the statement
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How? They never passed the bill. The Senate never used reconciliation as you're supposed to do in budget bills. They did the same thing they did last time—CAVED. They QUIT. They stopped short of actually using their legislative authority to push a bill to the President's desk. They don't even realize who controls the legislature. If they did, the bill would have made it to his desk.
They did the very same thing Obama is doing with ISIS! Giving the appearance of doing something while actually doing nothing at all!
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Hyperbole much?
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
:happyhappy: :happyhappy: :happyhappy: :happyhappy:
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If Mitch McConnell can't persuade however many Democrats to vote with the GOP - then what good is he as leader? Really? What special talent does he have that he is the best man for the job? Maybe it's time to let someone else that has the ability to barter, cajole, negotiate or whatever is needed to bring some of them around? What good is he?
How about someone who knows how and is willing to play real HARDBALL!
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What is TOS please?
It also refers to Terms of Service when Jim cleaned out all the "disruptors" years ago.
All my people left and eventually, so did I.
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Reconciliation example
Congress passes a budget resolution, with a deadline of April 15. No presidential signature is needed; sometimes the resolution is delayed or never passed.
The budget goes to both houses.
It goes to the Senate with a special rule: it can pass with 51 votes and cannot be filibustered. Other legislation can be filibustered and requires 60 votes to end the filibuster.
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How about someone who knows how and is willing to play real HARDBALL!
How about you guys get your own hardball player elected speaker.
The election for McConnell's Senate seat and his Majority Leader seat was last year. Please try again in late 2016. :laugh:
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It takes 60 votes to go to reconciliation conference, and the dems wouldn't do it.
Without 2/3 to override a Presidential veto, the 60 vote threshold doesn't mean much, either.
Right wing political forums appear to be very severely math challenged, and ironically Constitution challenged as well.
Thanx for keeping the debate well informed truth_seeker. You rock!
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If Mitch McConnell can't persuade however many Democrats to vote with the GOP - then what good is he as leader? Really? What special talent does he have that he is the best man for the job? Maybe it's time to let someone else that has the ability to barter, cajole, negotiate or whatever is needed to bring some of them around? What good is he?
I suppose you think bombthrower Ted Cruz could do a better job. Dream.......on......
Why don't you TPers try to get Cruz or Lee elected Majority Leader?
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I suppose you think bombthrower Ted Cruz could do a better job. Dream.......on......
Why don't you TPers try to get Cruz or Lee elected Majority Leader?
You know what they say about the word "assume"? When you assume something, you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me"!
I actually don't think Ted Cruz is the guy for that job - he is too true to his values. That job demands a wheeler-dealer type. Someone that can bring people over by means of tit for tat, by give and take - a negotiator. I think Mitch used to be that kind of guy, but something about Obama just makes him fall down and go into a fetal position! I don't know who would be best, but Mitch just isn't cutting it.
It's only our entire future that's at stake.
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You know what they say about the word "assume"? When you assume something, you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me"!
I actually don't think Ted Cruz is the guy for that job - he is too true to his values. That job demands a wheeler-dealer type. Someone that can bring people over by means of tit for tat, by give and take - a negotiator. I think Mitch used to be that kind of guy, but something about Obama just makes him fall down and go into a fetal position! I don't know who would be best, but Mitch just isn't cutting it.
It's only our entire future that's at stake.
You see that is where the right wing seems to loses touch with reality. You have to actually get a real human to run and win. You can't get away with saying "I don't like the leadership, but I dunno who should replace him. We'll figure that out later." You guys could have beat McConnell and Boehner for their seats in Congress and their leadership elections...and you tried...but you failed. Better luck next time. Try better candidates...or in the case of Boehner's Speakership election try to actually have a candidate maybe a week or more before you try and oust him.
http://mulvaney.house.gov/press-releases/mulvaney-releases-statement-on-speaker-vote/
Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-S.C.)
Some people wrote me encouraging me to vote for Louie Gohmert. I like Louie, but let’s be clear: Louie Gohmert was – is – never ever going to be Speaker of the House. I respect his passion, but he isn’t a credible candidate. That was proved today by the fact that he got three votes, despite all the national media attention he managed to grab. My colleague who got the most anti-Boehner votes was Daniel Webster of Florida who got 12 votes. I like Daniel. He is a nice guy, and a good thinker…but his lifetime Heritage Action score is 60% (by comparison, mine is 91%). And this was supposed to be the savior of the conservative movement? Would the House really have been more conservative if he had won?
The truth is, there was no conservative who could beat John Boehner. Period. People can ignore that, or they can wish it away, but that is reality.
It’s never wrong to do the right thing, and it was the right thing. - Congressman Louie Gohmert
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It takes 60 votes to go to reconciliation conference, and the dems wouldn't do it.
Without 2/3 to override a Presidential veto, the 60 vote threshold doesn't mean much, either.
Right wing political forums appear to be very severely math challenged, and ironically Constitution challenged as well.
The goal is to put it on the President's desk, placing the blame for any shutdown solely on him.
And the only thing stopping it from being 51 is McConnell himself. Remember—Harry Reid changed the rules on judicial nominations with a vote of 51. There is NOTHING stopping McConnell from doing the same.
As for “math challenged,” I'll put my transcripts up against yours any day. I may not be the best at differential equations but I am certainly NOT math challenged.
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Where are you coming up with this number of 60?????????????????
Reconciliation is a fast-track legislative process that allows a bill to pass the Senate in a limited time period, and with the support of only 51 Senators. A “normal” Senate bill can be slowed down by a single Senator, and blocked by 41 Senators. This is not true for a reconciliation bill.
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The goal is to put it on the President's desk, placing the blame for any shutdown solely on him.
And the only thing stopping it from being 51 is McConnell himself. Remember—Harry Reid changed the rules on judicial nominations with a vote of 51. There is NOTHING stopping McConnell from doing the same.
As for “math challenged,” I'll put my transcripts up against yours any day. I may not be the best at differential equations but I am certainly NOT math challenged.
RIGHT ON Jimmy! RIGHT ON!!!
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RIGHT ON Jimmy! RIGHT ON!!!
McConnell shouldn't pick and choose when the written procedure doesn't suit him/us. ESPECIALLY, with a rogue, lawless, piss-on-you President. Who's black.
It's the entire Republican's case to the American People. And based upon the past two national elections and numerous state and county elections, they understand who the good guys and and who are the bad guys.
I'd rather they bring charges up on Harry Reid for his lawless action. And throw is a$$ out of the Senate in disgrace.
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I'd rather they bring charges up on Harry Reid for his lawless action. And throw is a$$ out of the Senate in disgrace.
But that is NEVER going to happen because when the cameras and mics are off Mitch and Harry are the best of friends who continually laugh their asses off at US!
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But that is NEVER going to happen because when the cameras and mics are off Mitch and Harry are the best of friends who continually laugh their asses off at US!
I thought I was cynical, but you're the Jedi Master. :laugh:
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The problem with that, is the inability of the far right to convince more people of their positions. That in turn is because they adopt unpopular positions. They set themselves up for big losses in the optics game.
The goal is to put it on the President's desk, placing the blame for any shutdown solely on him.
That "goal" is beyond the reach of a fraction of the GOP that picks unpopular positions, and lacks the ability to move public opinion. They don't educate, explain, convince, persuade. They wind up on the losing side of another PR episode.
A bill put on the Presidents desk to shut down our security in the time of terrorism, will rightfully be blocked by him, and a majority of citizens will agree with him.
A bill to deport a 15 year old, brought here when he was 2 years old, will be blocked by him, and a majority of citizens will agree with him.
Adopting unpopular positions, simply reinforces the claim that the right is out of touch with voters.
Since a peak after the 2010 elections, the Tea Party has lost approval. It is because they have adopted unpopular positions.
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That "goal" is beyond the reach of a fraction of the GOP that picks unpopular positions, and lacks the ability to move public opinion. They don't educate, explain, convince, persuade. They wind up on the losing side of another PR episode.
A bill put on the Presidents desk to shut down our security in the time of terrorism, will rightfully be blocked by him, and a majority of citizens will agree with him.
A bill to deport a 15 year old, brought here when he was 2 years old, will be blocked by him, and a majority of citizens will agree with him.
Adopting unpopular positions, simply reinforces the claim that the right is out of touch with voters.
Since a peak after the 2010 elections, the Tea Party has lost approval. It is because they have adopted unpopular positions.
Yet another "Total surrender is the only option" steaming pile of BS!
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The conversion of this place to TOS is complete.
:facepalm2:
Give me a break.
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Here's the basic take-away: because the conservatives have no sense of how politics actually works, they are essentially making their own worst accusations come true: they're pushing Boehner closer and closer to the democrats.
Consider this: right now Boehner doesn't owe the democrats any real political favors because he didn't get to where he is with their help. That changes radically once he has to rely on the democrats to survive the coup d'etat being attempted by a coterie of self-proclaimed "conservative" republicans. That help won't come without strings, and Boehner will be much more beholden to the democrats than he's ever been.
In other words, Boehner and the moderate/center-right republicans are becoming more and more indistinguishable from the democrats because of the so-called "conservative" republicans, not in spite of them.
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Here's the basic take-away: because the conservatives have no sense of how politics actually works, they are essentially making their own worst accusations come true: they're pushing Boehner closer and closer to the democrats.
Consider this: right now Boehner doesn't owe the democrats any real political favors because he didn't get to where he is with their help. That changes radically once he has to rely on the democrats to survive the coup d'etat being attempted by a coterie of self-proclaimed "conservative" republicans. That help won't come without strings, and Boehner will be much more beholden to the democrats than he's ever been.
In other words, Boehner and the moderate/center-right republicans are becoming more and more indistinguishable from the democrats because of the so-called "conservative" republicans, not in spite of them.
And still ANOTHER pile!
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Here's the basic take-away: because the conservatives have no sense of how politics actually works, they are essentially making their own worst accusations come true: they're pushing Boehner closer and closer to the democrats.
Consider this: right now Boehner doesn't owe the democrats any real political favors because he didn't get to where he is with their help. That changes radically once he has to rely on the democrats to survive the coup d'etat being attempted by a coterie of self-proclaimed "conservative" republicans. That help won't come without strings, and Boehner will be much more beholden to the democrats than he's ever been.
In other words, Boehner and the moderate/center-right republicans are becoming more and more indistinguishable from the democrats because of the so-called "conservative" republicans, not in spite of them.
Blaming the victim.
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TEA losing approval?? Since when? You must be one of those that believe TEA is dead. Nope. Quite the opposite. TEA is alive and well and without them the GOPe wouldn't have the majority.
Hate to bust anyone's chops but TEA is what is holding this country together. Does anyone realistically feel that the DEMS are holding this country together (demolishing it is the more appropriate term)? The GOPe vote along with and cater to the DEMS. So exactly who do you have left? TEA.
I find it disgusting that voters made their voices heard during the mid terms and wanted Obama's policies STOPPED and they handed the GOP the majority (of course what other option was there) and the GOPe is failing to deliver...and it can't be blamed on anyone else but them. Sure Barry has veto power ... but the GOPe needs to gain some damn backbone for a change and quit caving. The blame game and the illusion that they are doing something is no longer working.
“Let the revolution begin.”
― Ron Paul, The Revolution: A Manifesto
“If two parties with two sets of bad ideas cooperate, the result is not good policy, but policy that is extremely bad. What we really need are correct economic and politcal ideas, regardless of the party that pushes them.”
― Ron Paul, Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom
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And still ANOTHER pile!
Your capacity for self-delusion is well-nigh infinite. You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make it in the least bit true. The facts on the ground do not in any way justify or corroborate your views.
Here's another blunt fact: the democrats already have at least one candidate in place and ready to start rallying the troops and convincing the mass of non-partisan voters that they should vote for her, and the republicans don't have a donkey, let alone a race horse, in the works. Instead, the so-called "conservative" wing is dragging the GOP into an ugly little internecine circle jerk, thereby wasting all of the political capital and good will they built up with the electorate. For example, if the Supreme Court rules that people who bought their Obama insurance on a federal exchange can't get subsidies, there is going to be a lot of pain in this country and we must absolutely have a coherent plan to deal with that ready to go. If nothing else, we should go with something similar to the immediate 18 month fix that's being proposed that would effectively leverage off of the current COBRA structure and allow people to keep their current policies at their current, subsidy-adjusted, premiums for 18 months while Congress prepares a comprehensive replacement for Obamacare. The adults in the GOP have already started running proposals up the flag pole, but instead of constructively engaging with the issue - i.e., governing - the so-called "conservatives" are throwing the world's biggest hissy fit.
If they don't stop that immediately, and focus on real issues like dealing with a potential anti-Obamacare ruling, then here is what's going to happen: the democrats will spring their already-prepared solution fully-drafted and ready to go. That will basically involve nothing more than a simple amendment to Obamacare that permits subsidies to be given to everyone, regardless of whether they bought their Obama policies on a state exchange or a federal exchange. It would be simplicity itself because all it would require is adding the phrase "or the federal government" to the end of the statutory provision that's currently the subject of the Supreme Court case.
And when that fails to pass, as it surely will given that republicans control Congress, then the democrats will be able to convincingly portray the republicans as being heartless obstructionists who prefer to play games of ideology rather than taking care of people by fixing the damage wrought by the Supreme Court's ruling.
So please, go right ahead and play pretty little games of ideological assassination to your heart's content, abandoning any pretense to being capable of actually governing in a real world where a lot of people whom you have to work with don't agree with you on all of your policy goals, but the one piece of self-delusion you are not permitted is the delusion that you did not contribute to the democrats' victory in 2016.
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Blaming the victim.
/snicker
That refrain sounds more and more like the excuses given for Jihad Johnnie.
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TEA losing approval?? Since when? You must be one of those that believe TEA is dead. Nope. Quite the opposite. TEA is alive and well and without them the GOPe wouldn't have the majority.
Hate to bust anyone's chops but TEA is what is holding this country together. Does anyone realistically feel that the DEMS are holding this country together (demolishing it is the more appropriate term)? The GOPe vote along with and cater to the DEMS. So exactly who do you have left? TEA.
I find it disgusting that voters made their voices heard during the mid terms and wanted Obama's policies STOPPED and they handed the GOP the majority (of course what other option was there) and the GOPe is failing to deliver...and it can't be blamed on anyone else but them. Sure Barry has veto power ... but the GOPe needs to gain some damn backbone for a change and quit caving. The blame game and the illusion that they are doing something is no longer working.
“Let the revolution begin.”
― Ron Paul, The Revolution: A Manifesto
“If two parties with two sets of bad ideas cooperate, the result is not good policy, but policy that is extremely bad. What we really need are correct economic and politcal ideas, regardless of the party that pushes them.”
― Ron Paul, Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom
I don't believe TEA is dead; it's very much alive. If it were dead we wouldn't have this suicidal idiocy going on in Congress.
As I said in response to Bigun: you're entitled to whatever delusion you desire but one: you are not permitted to delude yourself into believing that you had nothing to do with the democrats' victory in 2016.
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Hate to bust anyone's chops but TEA is what is holding this country together.
Yep, the good people ridiculed by everyone else are the only thing holding this country together...
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Your capacity for self-delusion is well-nigh infinite.
As is yours from my point of view!
We've been doing it your way for a VERY long time and what has that gotten us?
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Your capacity for self-delusion is well-nigh infinite. You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make it in the least bit true. The facts on the ground do not in any way justify or corroborate your views.
Here's another blunt fact: the democrats already have at least one candidate in place and ready to start rallying the troops and convincing the mass of non-partisan voters that they should vote for her, and the republicans don't have a donkey, let alone a race horse, in the works. Instead, the so-called "conservative" wing is dragging the GOP into an ugly little internecine circle jerk, thereby wasting all of the political capital and good will they built up with the electorate. For example, if the Supreme Court rules that people who bought their Obama insurance on a federal exchange can't get subsidies, there is going to be a lot of pain in this country and we must absolutely have a coherent plan to deal with that ready to go. If nothing else, we should go with something similar to the immediate 18 month fix that's being proposed that would effectively leverage off of the current COBRA structure and allow people to keep their current policies at their current, subsidy-adjusted, premiums for 18 months while Congress prepares a comprehensive replacement for Obamacare. The adults in the GOP have already started running proposals up the flag pole, but instead of constructively engaging with the issue - i.e., governing - the so-called "conservatives" are throwing the world's biggest hissy fit.
If they don't stop that immediately, and focus on real issues like dealing with a potential anti-Obamacare ruling, then here is what's going to happen: the democrats will spring their already-prepared solution fully-drafted and ready to go. That will basically involve nothing more than a simple amendment to Obamacare that permits subsidies to be given to everyone, regardless of whether they bought their Obama policies on a state exchange or a federal exchange. It would be simplicity itself because all it would require is adding the phrase "or the federal government" to the end of the statutory provision that's currently the subject of the Supreme Court case.
And when that fails to pass, as it surely will given that republicans control Congress, then the democrats will be able to convincingly portray the republicans as being heartless obstructionists who prefer to play games of ideology rather than taking care of people by fixing the damage wrought by the Supreme Court's ruling.
So please, go right ahead and play pretty little games of ideological assassination to your heart's content, abandoning any pretense to being capable of actually governing in a real world where a lot of people whom you have to work with don't agree with you on all of your policy goals, but the one piece of self-delusion you are not permitted is the delusion that you did not contribute to the democrats' victory in 2016.
:da man:
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Not one candidate has actually made an announcement that they are going to run, so I'm not so sure where you are getting the fact that the DEMS have at least one candidate in place. The MSM has pre-selected candidates for us; Clinton and Bush. Hillary is receiving a lot of negative press right now with her latest scandal of e-mails linked to Benghazi. Bush is no faring too well in the polls. So actually, the hopefuls of both parties don't seem to be going the way that the MSM would like. The GOP has more viable candidates than the DEMS, so in that respect we are clearly ahead. IF the GOPe would just get their heads out of their butts and recognize that a conservative is needed in order to win. Secondly the election is almost 2 years away. Instead of focusing on the election perhaps the focus should be on stopping Obama policy as voted on by the majority during the mid terms. People don't want more Obama policy (DEMS) they want an alternative and someone who can lead this country out of the chaos created by Obama policy.
The GOPe is NOT the answer as they tend to side with the DEMS and have allowed Obama's policies to be put in place. Clearly not how the voters voted in the mid terms.
Any way you cut it, the best shot at winning the oval office is either a GOP TEA candidate or third party.
It has been publicized that most candidates will be announcing their run Mid-March to Mid-April.
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As I think about all the goings on in D.C., I have to wonder if the democrats and Obama have something BIG on Boehner. Look what they have started with Menendez, a fellow conspirator to destroy America. Then I think about Boehner wimping on everything that comes before him. Then I think of Nazi Pelosi offering to help Tammy Fay fend off his own party. No matter what happens now the democrats are going to come out of this smelling like a rose; the unkept campaign promises, the lack of principles, how they have offered to "HELP" Boehner, the republicans caving on everything after doing meaningless lip service is going to leave a foul taste for most Americans who voted for major changes. The democrats must have something on Tammy Fay for all this to happen.
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As I think about all the goings on in D.C., I have to wonder if the democrats and Obama have something BIG on Boehner. Look what they have started with Menendez, a fellow conspirator to destroy America. Then I think about Boehner wimping on everything that comes before him. Then I think of Nazi Pelosi offering to help Tammy Fay fend off his own party. No matter what happens now the democrats are going to come out of this smelling like a rose; the unkept campaign promises, the lack of principles, how they have offered to "HELP" Boehner, the republicans caving on everything after doing meaningless lip service is going to leave a foul taste for most Americans who voted for major changes. The democrats must have something on Tammy Fay for all this to happen.
I hear what you are saying; but in the same light they must have "something" on McConnel and the rest of the GOPe as well. What they have on the GOPe is that they know they are "spineless" and have been convinced that unless they sway to the left, they will lose their seat and most importantly that "cash flow" into their pockets. The MSM had American voters convinced that "political correctness" and liberalism was what was best for this country. Voters have finally realized that neither has worked. I really think the GOPe will sink its ship and a very conservative candidate will emerge., i.e., Cruz, Walker, Perry or you will see a 3rd party candidate who is going to take it all by a landslide. Just my humble opinion of course.
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bfl
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Very conservative 3rd party candidate wins by a landslide. You say this seriously?
The ONLY conservative to win since the depression, wouldn't even qualify as conservative today.
Amnesty, retreat from Lebanon, abortions while governor, tax hikes, etc. Oh, he eliminated zero departments, btw.
And yet your delusion forces you to state only a conservative can win now.
Reality is that Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Bush I and Bush II held the Presidency. The whacko birds all say they are rinos and moderates.
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Here's the basic take-away: because the conservatives have no sense of how politics actually works, they are essentially making their own worst accusations come true: they're pushing Boehner closer and closer to the democrats.
Consider this: right now Boehner doesn't owe the democrats any real political favors because he didn't get to where he is with their help. That changes radically once he has to rely on the democrats to survive the coup d'etat being attempted by a coterie of self-proclaimed "conservative" republicans. That help won't come without strings, and Boehner will be much more beholden to the democrats than he's ever been.
In other words, Boehner and the moderate/center-right republicans are becoming more and more indistinguishable from the democrats because of the so-called "conservative" republicans, not in spite of them.
That may be true if there were a coup d'etat brewing right now. As far as we know, there isn't—there was an attempt at the start of the session, but all they needed at the time was to prevent Boehner from getting the majority. If they tried to pull off such a coup now, they'd need to have someone with enough support to earn a majority of votes, and that isn't going to happen. The House conservatives are, for the most part, not idiots.
What needs to change is the Senate leadership.
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That "goal" is beyond the reach of a fraction of the GOP that picks unpopular positions, and lacks the ability to move public opinion. They don't educate, explain, convince, persuade. They wind up on the losing side of another PR episode.
A bill put on the Presidents desk to shut down our security in the time of terrorism, will rightfully be blocked by him, and a majority of citizens will agree with him.
Very little of Homeland Security funding is discretionary; it would not be affected by any shutdown.
A bill to deport a 15 year old, brought here when he was 2 years old, will be blocked by him, and a majority of citizens will agree with him.
That 15 year old stole tens of thousands of dollars worth of free public education at taxpayer expense and, if a high achiever, prevented an American citizen from achieving the same honors.
But even if your premise is true—and given how the country voted in 2012, there may be some truth to the fact that the American people are simply too stupid to know right and wrong (there is such a thing as false equivalency and it runs rampant) and will willingly support blatantly wrong positions, may I also note: it is easier to target opposition at one person than a nebulous crowd.
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:da man:
Dittos to what Luis said. Great post Oceander.
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That may be true if there were a coup d'etat brewing right now. As far as we know, there isn't—there was an attempt at the start of the session, but all they needed at the time was to prevent Boehner from getting the majority. If they tried to pull off such a coup now, they'd need to have someone with enough support to earn a majority of votes, and that isn't going to happen. The House conservatives are, for the most part, not idiots.
What needs to change is the Senate leadership.
With all due respect, the so-called conservatives in Congress are shot through with idiocy. There are, to be sure, some intelligent folk, but they're letting themselves be led around by the nose by the showboating idiots.
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As is yours from my point of view!
We've been doing it your way for a VERY long time and what has that gotten us?
Not only has your way not got us anything, your way - which includes the third party threat - has in fact lost us an election or two. Ross Perot didn't do anyone other than the democrats any favors by running as a third party candidate.
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Not one candidate has actually made an announcement that they are going to run, so I'm not so sure where you are getting the fact that the DEMS have at least one candidate in place. The MSM has pre-selected candidates for us; Clinton and Bush. Hillary is receiving a lot of negative press right now with her latest scandal of e-mails linked to Benghazi. Bush is no faring too well in the polls. So actually, the hopefuls of both parties don't seem to be going the way that the MSM would like. The GOP has more viable candidates than the DEMS, so in that respect we are clearly ahead. IF the GOPe would just get their heads out of their butts and recognize that a conservative is needed in order to win. Secondly the election is almost 2 years away. Instead of focusing on the election perhaps the focus should be on stopping Obama policy as voted on by the majority during the mid terms. People don't want more Obama policy (DEMS) they want an alternative and someone who can lead this country out of the chaos created by Obama policy.
The GOPe is NOT the answer as they tend to side with the DEMS and have allowed Obama's policies to be put in place. Clearly not how the voters voted in the mid terms.
Any way you cut it, the best shot at winning the oval office is either a GOP TEA candidate or third party.
It has been publicized that most candidates will be announcing their run Mid-March to Mid-April.
Not a single Republican in Congress voted for Obamacare - they didn't do a lick to implement that policy - and when Boehner started discussions of a suit against Obuttocks for attempting to infringe on Congressional prerogative, all we got here was whinging.
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Not only has your way not got us anything, your way - which includes the third party threat - has in fact lost us an election or two. Ross Perot didn't do anyone other than the democrats any favors by running as a third party candidate.
YOU simply cannot resist attempting to put words in the mouths of others that were never said! Neither you nor anyone else here has ever heard me say a word advocating ANY third party movement!
MY way has not been tried! The closest we ever came to it in MY lifetime was under Reagan but even that was hamstrung by many just like yourself who quake in their boots at the meer thought of the GOP actually FIGHTING the left on anything!
I repeat! We've been doing things your way for many years and what has that gotten us? Nothing but ever closer to the point of no return!