The Briefing Room
General Category => World News => Topic started by: edpc on August 08, 2017, 09:12:11 pm
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President Trump on Tuesday sternly warned North Korea that it would face “fire and fury like the world has never seen” if it continues to threaten the United States, as his administration grapples with unsettling news of a possible nuclear breakthrough by the Stalinist regime.
“North Korea [had] best not make any more threats to the United States,” Trump told reporters at his golf resort in Bedminster, N.J. “They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.”
North Korean leader Kim Jong Un “has been very threatening, beyond a normal statement,” Trump said, “and as I said, they will be met with fire, fury and, frankly, power the likes of which this world has never seen before.”
The president’s comments came after multiple U.S. news reports and one Japanese government report suggested that North Korea may have developed a miniaturized nuclear warhead that can fit atop one of its intercontinental ballistic missiles. The U.S. reports, citing anonymous American officials, hinged on an undisclosed Defense Intelligence Agency analysis from last month. The Washington Post was the first to report on the development.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-warns-n-korea-will-face-fire-fury-201625086.html
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Trump takes heat for 'fire and fury' remarks on North Korea
By Joe Concha - 08/08/17 05:43 PM EDT
Members of political media on Tuesday mocked President Trump's stern warning to North Korea against threatening the U.S., saying the language he used sounded more like a statement out of Pyongyang.
“North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States,” Trump said to reporters at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J. “They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.”
The reaction from left- and right-leaning media followed quickly afterwards.
<..snip..>
http://thehill.com/homenews/media/345807-trump-takes-heat-for-fire-and-fury-remarks-on-north-korea (http://thehill.com/homenews/media/345807-trump-takes-heat-for-fire-and-fury-remarks-on-north-korea)
Jay CarusoVerified account @JayCaruso · 2h2 hours ago
"I dare you!"
"No, I dare you!"
"I double-dare you!"
"I triple-dare you!"
"I tripled-dog-dare you!"
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGu8p7FVYAEBMs_.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGu8q2dUQAA0P0w.jpg)
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Nice to hear some Smack talk coming from the WH.
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Trump takes heat for 'fire and fury' remarks on North Korea
By Joe Concha - 08/08/17 05:43 PM EDT
Members of political media on Tuesday mocked President Trump's stern warning to North Korea
Kerry brought James Taylor to France after Charlie Hebdo to sing You've Got A Friend. Maybe Tillerson can get him to do Fire And Rain in Seoul.
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Kerry brought James Taylor to France after Charlie Hebdo to sing You've Got A Friend. Maybe Tillerson can get him to do Fire And Rain in Seoul.
More like Toby Keith - Courtesy Of The Red, White And Blue (The Angry American). We will put a boot in your ass....
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More like Toby Keith - Courtesy Of The Red, White And Blue (The Angry American). We will put a boot in your ass....
The battle anthem for keyboard warriors with dial up who use phrases like 'them there.'
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What ever happened to 'speak softly and carry a big stick'? I guess you speak loudly if you have a tiny.. hand...
In the past, there used to be no doubt of our power. We didn't need to brag, we just were (maybe pop off a few tests here and there as a reminder). Lil'Kim is nuts though, words will do noting for a crazy guy like him.
Maybe Trump is playing the crazy angle. If China thinks our leader is as crazy as Lil'Kim, they may take care of the problem before we pop off some nukes south of their border.
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What ever happened to 'speak softly and carry a big stick'? I guess you speak loudly if you have a tiny.. hand...
In the past, there used to be no doubt of our power. We didn't need to brag, we just were (maybe pop off a few tests here and there as a reminder). Lil'Kim is nuts though, words will do noting for a crazy guy like him.
Maybe Trump is playing the crazy angle. If China thinks our leader is as crazy as Lil'Kim, they may take care of the problem before we pop off some nukes south of their border.
Time to meet crazy talk with crazy talk and see who walks. .
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If China thinks our leader is as crazy as Lil'Kim, they may take care of the problem before we pop off some nukes south of their border.
They've already moved 150K troops to the border. Doesn't seem like a lot, unless they're in place to control refugee spillover.
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The battle anthem for keyboard warriors with dial up who use phrases like 'them there.'
I think those of us inside the reported range of Kim's ICBMs, which he's now openly threatening to use, can rightfully claim something beyond 'keyboard warrior' status.
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It's BS. Their capabilities are being vastly overhyped by them and overrated by the news. Their guidance couldn't hit Guam and their re-entry vehicle can't make it here without burning up. The last one flared out on steep re-entry. The shallow angle required to reach CONUS would put it under more stress.
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It's BS. Their capabilities are being vastly overhyped by them and overrated by the news. Their guidance couldn't hit Guam and their re-entry vehicle can't make it here without burning up. The last one flared out on steep re-entry. The shallow angle required to reach CONUS would put it under more stress.
Interesting. Do you have a source besides the NYT?
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It's BS. Their capabilities are being vastly overhyped by them and overrated by the news. Their guidance couldn't hit Guam and their re-entry vehicle can't make it here without burning up. The last one flared out on steep re-entry. The shallow angle required to reach CONUS would put it under more stress.
None of this matters. The die has been cast. Time to put a boot in Kims ass.
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I would like to remind everyone who we must thank for the Norks having ICBM technology.
Mr. & Mrs. William Jefferson Blythe Clinton and their pals at Loral Space.
We can think the Chinese, Iranians and the Pakis for the nukes they let their unstable bastard child have.
And.... a special thanks to His Heinous, Barrack Hussein Obama - for helping to place all the powder stores around the globe and lighting the fuse.
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N. Korea now threatening a preemptive strike on Guam.
This is their response after "fire and fury" Trump.
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N. Korea now threatening a preemptive strike on Guam.
This is their response after "fire and fury" Trump.
Are you scared or just being a drama queen?
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I would like to remind everyone who we must thank for the Norks having ICBM technology.
Mr. & Mrs. William Jefferson Blythe Clinton and their pals at Loral Space.
We can think the Chinese, Iranians and the Pakis for the nukes they let their unstable bastard child have.
And.... a special thanks to His Heinous, Barrack Hussein Obama - for helping to place all the powder stores around the globe and lighting the fuse.
Absolutely! Thanks fo the reminding us about Bill Clinton selling the technology to China for campaign cash!
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265200/flashback-bill-clinton-gave-china-missile-matthew-vadum
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None of this matters. The die has been cast. Time to put a boot in Kims ass.
It matters quite a bit, especially if a threat is going to be ginned up as imminent when it's not - especially if it's to boost flagging admin support.
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It matters quite a bit, especially if a threat is going to be ginned up as imminent when it's not - especially if it's to boost flagging admin support.
The administration must have Russia and China on board with all this 'ginning' then, as they just voted in favor of sanctions against the north which, from what I understand, is pretty unprecedented.
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It's BS. Their capabilities are being vastly overhyped by them and overrated by the news. Their guidance couldn't hit Guam and their re-entry vehicle can't make it here without burning up. The last one flared out on steep re-entry. The shallow angle required to reach CONUS would put it under more stress.
So let's say their guidance is screwed up but they shoot off one towards Guam. Based on their current flight times, a screwed up nuke could easily fall well short of its target and land in Japan. Straight line from NORK to Guam takes it right over the main islands of Japan including one of its largest towns, Osaka. If it goes wrong and goes more south west, it is crashing into South Korea. If it goes just a bit north west, it is crashing into Tokyo. And I don't even want to know what happens if it goes further south west and crashes into Shanghai.
The German V2 rockets were guided by clockwork, gyroscope and simple calculus and we know what that did to London.
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It matters quite a bit, especially if a threat is going to be ginned up as imminent when it's not - especially if it's to boost flagging admin support.
Sounds like you are having a tinfoil moment. Enjoy.
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I would like to remind everyone who we must thank for the Norks having ICBM technology.
Mr. & Mrs. William Jefferson Blythe Clinton and their pals at Loral Space.
We can think the Chinese, Iranians and the Pakis for the nukes they let their unstable bastard child have.
And.... a special thanks to His Heinous, Barrack Hussein Obama - for helping to place all the powder stores around the globe and lighting the fuse.
The timeline of nuclear development supports cooperation between Iran and North Korea, rather than an exchange with China. Still, that falls into the lap of Clinton, with the disastrous Operation Merlin in 2000.
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Sounds like you are having a tinfoil moment.
More like justified skepticism of an admin that has yet to demonstrate it can find its own ass with both hands and a map.
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It's BS. Their capabilities are being vastly overhyped by them and overrated by the news. Their guidance couldn't hit Guam and their re-entry vehicle can't make it here without burning up. The last one flared out on steep re-entry. The shallow angle required to reach CONUS would put it under more stress.
People been saying they can't do this or do that for years. Yet they do it. They've gone from a rocket that blows up on the launch pad to an icbm faster then we did. They are getting help.
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More like justified skepticism of an admin that has yet to demonstrate it can find its own ass with both hands and a map.
Whatever keeps you awake thu the night. :whistle:
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The timeline of nuclear development supports cooperation between Iran and North Korea, rather than an exchange with China. Still, that falls into the lap of Clinton, with the disastrous Operation Merlin in 2000.
Its most likely Iran got their technology from the Norks, meaning China.
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Its most likely Iran got their technology from the Norks, meaning China.
Then, you were obviously unfamiliar with Operation Merlin.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/twisted-view-of-cias-operation-merlin/2015/01/26/dc107fd6-a3e7-11e4-9f89-561284a573f8_story.html?utm_term=.7cd32abe8a5d
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Whatever keeps you awake thu the night. :whistle:
Well, some of us happen to recall the consequences of things like Gulf of Tonkin, Sudan aspirin factories, and 'slam dunk' WMDs.
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Are you scared or just being a drama queen?
@Wingnut
Stating fact - N. Korea threatening preemptive attack on Guam. Check your TV, any news station.
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Then, you were obviously unfamiliar with Operation Merlin.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/twisted-view-of-cias-operation-merlin/2015/01/26/dc107fd6-a3e7-11e4-9f89-561284a573f8_story.html?utm_term=.7cd32abe8a5d
It's both. Probably Russia and Pakistan too
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It's both. Probably Russia and Pakistan too
Definitely Pakistan involvement. A lot of the proliferation can be traced back to their national hero, A. Q. Khan. They ISI knew what he was doing.
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Then, you were obviously unfamiliar with Operation Merlin.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/twisted-view-of-cias-operation-merlin/2015/01/26/dc107fd6-a3e7-11e4-9f89-561284a573f8_story.html?utm_term=.7cd32abe8a5d
https://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/OP351.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Iran_relations
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/nuclear-expert-china-has-sold-iran-long-range-missile-technology-video/
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-06-22/news/9506220151_1_missile-technology-control-regime-pakistan-and-iran-ballistic-missiles
https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-56873731.html
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Well, some of us happen to recall the consequences of things like Gulf of Tonkin, Sudan aspirin factories, and 'slam dunk' WMDs.
Blah Blab Blah. You need to get a grip on your hate. We have a destiny to fulfill... to make the world safe.
(http://www.okelley.net/Rick/AirForce/First%20B-52sm.jpg)
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@Wingnut
Stating fact - N. Korea threatening preemptive attack on Guam. Check your TV, any news station.
Don't make it true. Duck and Cover baby.
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Blah Blab Blah. You need to get a grip on your hate. We have a destiny to fulfill... to make the world safe.
(http://www.okelley.net/Rick/AirForce/First%20B-52sm.jpg)
@skeeter
See what I mean?
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The Pentagon needs to figure out how will we will neutralize the 10,000 artillery pieces aimed at Seoul.Most of the artillery pieces are already in place, camouflaged and dug in. But we can cut the lines of communication between Kim Il Jung and his commanders.If they do not receive his orders ,they will be unable to carry out an attack. I am sure that we have studied all of the possible scenarios over the decades.They have also had since 1953 to figure out all the scenarios we might take. But maybe the North Koreans have figured out that this would be the plan of attack by the United States and set up some sort of "back channel" with his field commanders. Possibly some sort of "dead hand" system exists between the North Korean leadership and the commanders out in the field. If the leadership is destroyed, but the field commanders will carry out their last instructions. The Russians had a "dead hand" system that in case the Russian leadership is destroyed their nuclear missiles will automatically trigger a launch. Whether or not it exists its unclear. Putin might have reactivated the system.We used to have something similar called The Emergency Rocket Communications System (ERCS). That was dismantled in 1991.
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@skeeter
See what I mean?
Perhaps it might be better, edpc if you were more concerned with the American People than with our image in the history books.
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The Pentagon needs to figure out how will we will neutralize the 10,000 artillery pieces aimed at Seoul.Most of the artillery pieces are already in place, camouflaged and dug in. But we can cut the lines of communication between Kim Il Jung and his commanders.If they do not receive his orders ,they will be unable to carry out an attack. I am sure that we have studied all of the possible scenarios over the decades.They have also had since 1953 to figure out all the scenarios we might take. But maybe the North Koreans have figured out that this would be the plan of attack by the United States and set up some sort of "back channel" with his field commanders. Possibly some sort of "dead hand" system exists between the North Korean leadership and the commanders out in the field. If the leadership is destroyed, but the field commanders will carry out their last instructions. The Russians had a "dead hand" system that in case the Russian leadership is destroyed their nuclear missiles will automatically trigger a launch. Whether or not it exists its unclear. Putin might have reactivated the system.We used to have something similar called The Emergency Rocket Communications System (ERCS). That was dismantled in 1991.
I doubt that they may have an effective guidance system unless they have figured out that part already. The North Koreans may have been supplied by China,Russia or Iran to solve that problem. The biggest problem is that North Korea might share their data with Iran. Iran and North Korea have a treaty together.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93North_Korea_relations
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I doubt that they may have an effective guidance system unless they have figured out that part already. The North Koreans may have been supplied by China,Russia or Iran to solve that problem. The biggest problem is that North Korea might share their data with Iran. Iran and North Korea have a treaty together.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93North_Korea_relations
They also share technical resources aka people.
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They also share technical resources aka people.
:beer:
They have been close partners since 1979.
http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/the-iran-north-korea-connection/
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Clinton gave missle tecnology to China way back in the 90s.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265200/flashback-bill-clinton-gave-china-missile-matthew-vadum
And a couple of nuclear power plants as well.
http://nypost.com/2016/01/06/you-can-thank-jimmy-carter-and-bill-clinton-for-north-koreas-nukes/
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I doubt that they may have an effective guidance system unless they have figured out that part already. The North Koreans may have been supplied by China,Russia or Iran to solve that problem. The biggest problem is that North Korea might share their data with Iran. Iran and North Korea have a treaty together.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93North_Korea_relations
It's North Korea. They've got the most effective guidance system known available to them.
Homing beacons.
Just because we don't use it (unless as a last resort) because it's a suicide mission, doesn't mean they can't or won't.
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https://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/OP351.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Iran_relations
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/nuclear-expert-china-has-sold-iran-long-range-missile-technology-video/
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-06-22/news/9506220151_1_missile-technology-control-regime-pakistan-and-iran-ballistic-missiles
https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-56873731.html
:beer:
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The Pentagon needs to figure out how will we will neutralize the 10,000 artillery pieces aimed at Seoul.Most of the artillery pieces are already in place, camouflaged and dug in.
This threat is overblown. Seoul is more than 30 mi from the border. The Norks have one model that reach that far with rocket assisted shells. They don't have many and the 170 mm size makes the rate of fire slow. They'd be spotted and hit with counter battery fire and air strikes quickly. They're more vulnerable to missiles, but the Norks need time to fuel them. They can't remain fueled indefinitely, since its corrosive.
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It's North Korea. They've got the most effective guidance system known available to them.
Homing beacons.
Just because we don't use it (unless as a last resort) because it's a suicide mission, doesn't mean they can't or won't.
They must be using Chinese satellites for their guidance systems.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/north-korea-using-chinas-satellites-guide-its-missiles-20810
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Don't make it true. Duck and Cover baby.
@Wingnut
Doesn't make what true?
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This threat is overblown. Seoul is more than 30 mi from the border. The Norks have one model that reach that far with rocket assisted shells. They don't have many and the 170 mm size makes the rate of fire slow. They'd be spotted and hit with counter battery fire and air strikes quickly. They're more vulnerable to missiles, but the Norks need time to fuel them. They can't remain fueled indefinitely, since its corrosive.
I really think is a threat because its figures so prominently in the literature such as Stratfor and Popular Mechanics.Some estimates suggest that the Korean People’s Army could hit Seoul with at least 500,000 shells in less than an hour. The U.S. and its allies could destroy the North’s artillery units eventually, but not before the destruction of South Korea’s capital. The damage could be even worse if the North Koreans decided to use chemical rounds.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a6211/north-korea-conflict-weapon
http://www.businessinsider.com/3-maps-that-outline-north-koreas-military-might-2016-2
https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/how-north-korea-would-retaliate
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@Wingnut
Doesn't make what true?
Try to keep up. Clemenceau once said about war that it was to important to be left to the generals. This is now a de hombre a hombre fight. Trump vs Kim. Cage match with nukes.
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What ever happened to 'speak softly and carry a big stick'? I guess you speak loudly if you have a tiny.. hand...
In the past, there used to be no doubt of our power. We didn't need to brag, we just were (maybe pop off a few tests here and there as a reminder). Lil'Kim is nuts though, words will do noting for a crazy guy like him.
Maybe Trump is playing the crazy angle. If China thinks our leader is as crazy as Lil'Kim, they may take care of the problem before we pop off some nukes south of their border.
If I was Trump I would tell China that if you take out the Kim family, tariffs won't be raised.
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Perhaps it might be better, edpc if you were more concerned with the American People than with our image in the history books.
I am - most specifically the Americans that are most at risk - those under command of the CiC. Being a former one, I'm a bit tired of them dying in vain for police actions, domino theories, Somali warlords, wag the dog bs, and nation building.
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I really think is a threat because its figures so prominently in the literature such as Stratfor and Popular Mechanics.Some estimates suggest that the Korean People’s Army could hit Seoul with at least 500,000 shells in less than an hour. The U.S. and its allies could destroy the North’s artillery units eventually, but not before the destruction of South Korea’s capital. The damage could be even worse if the North Koreans decided to use chemical rounds.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a6211/north-korea-conflict-weapon
http://www.businessinsider.com/3-maps-that-outline-north-koreas-military-might-2016-2
https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/how-north-korea-would-retaliate
There is hope. The South Koreans has developed new radar systems that can detect these pieces about 40 miles away. Its called ARTHUR
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2017/04/24/0200000000AEN20170424004651315.html
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This threat is overblown. Seoul is more than 30 mi from the border. The Norks have one model that reach that far with rocket assisted shells. They don't have many and the 170 mm size makes the rate of fire slow. They'd be spotted and hit with counter battery fire and air strikes quickly. They're more vulnerable to missiles, but the Norks need time to fuel them. They can't remain fueled indefinitely, since its corrosive.
That must be why a 2 star general told my tactical unit the NKs were massed at the border and that we could expect 75% casualties if the fan hit the feces. /s
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That must be why a 2 star general told my tactical unit the NKs were massed at the border and that we could expect 75% casualties if the fan hit the feces. /s
:beer:
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Try to keep up. Clemenceau once said about war that it was to important to be left to the generals. This is now a de hombre a hombre fight. Trump vs Kim. Cage match with nukes.
@Wingnut
No, YOU should keep up. I said a fact - N. Korea threatened to do a preemptive strike on Guam. You said, "That doesn't make it true." Actually, you are all over this board with nonsense statements to everyone. Do whatever, but I won't answer anymore.
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That must be why a 2 star general told my tactical unit the NKs were massed at the border and that we could expect 75% casualties if the fan hit the feces.
Perhaps you missed the part where I was addressing, specifically, the artillery threat to Seoul. Reading is fundamental.
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Perhaps you missed the part where I was addressing, specifically, the artillery threat to Seoul. Reading is fundamental.
I was south of Seoul at the time.. Your facts are wrong. There is a significant threat to the region.
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If I was Trump I would tell China that if you take out the Kim family, tariffs won't be raised.
Interesting idea @kevindavis ......
Fox NewsVerified account @FoxNews 10m10 minutes ago
Victor Davis Hanson: China is the only country that can pressure North Korea, and we're the only country that can pressure China. #Tucker
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I am - most specifically the Americans that are most at risk - those under command of the CiC. Being a former one, I'm a bit tired of them dying in vain for police actions, domino theories, Somali warlords, wag the dog bs, and nation building.
Plenty of misadventures to be sure, but the domino theory wasn't one of them. That was spot on target.
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I was south of Seoul at the time.. Your facts are wrong. There is a significant threat to the region.
The entire country is at risk if they use ballistic missiles and chemical weapons along with the artillery. North Korea will use chemical weapons on South Korea and our troops. They do not care about the consequences if they do. We would respond with nuclear weapons.
:beer:
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I was south of Seoul at the time.. Your facts are wrong. There is a significant threat to the region.
Fine, then don't give me anecdotal BS and tell me the facts which artillery pieces they have in their possession that can reach that far. You can't.
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The entire country is at risk if they use ballistic missiles and chemical weapons along with the artillery.
Two of those things weren't part of the discussion. You tell me which ones.
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With the shock of war, however, the State comes into its own again. The Government, with no
mandate from the people, without consultation of the people, conducts all the negotiations, the backing
and filling, the menaces and explanations, which slowly bring it into collision with some other Government,
and gently and irresistibly slides the country into war. For the benefit of proud and haughty citizens, it is
fortified with a list of the intolerable insults which have been hurled toward us by the other nations; for
the benefit of the liberal and beneficent, it has a convincing set of moral purposes which our going to war
will achieve; for the ambitious and aggressive classes, it can gently whisper of a bigger role in the destiny
of the world. The result is that, even in those countries where the business of declaring war is theoretically
in the hands of representatives of the people, no legislature has ever been known to decline the request
of an Executive, which has conducted all foreign affairs in utter privacy and irresponsibility, that it order
the nation into battle. Good democrats are wont to feel the crucial difference between a State in which
the popular Parliament or Congress declares war, and the State in which an absolute monarch or ruling
class declares war. But, put to the stern pragmatic test, the difference is not striking. In the freest of
republics as well as in the most tyrannical of empires, all foreign policy, the diplomatic negotiations which
produce or forestall war, are equally the private property of the Executive part of the Government, and
are equally exposed to no check whatever from popular bodies, or the people voting as a mass themselves.
The moment war is declared, however, the mass of the people, through some spiritual alchemy, become
convinced that they have willed and executed the deed themselves. They then, with the exception of a few
malcontents, proceed to allow themselves to be regimented, coerced, deranged in all the environments of
their lives, and turned into a solid manufactory of destruction toward whatever other people may have, in
the appointed scheme of things, come within the range of the Government’s disapprobation. The citizen
throws off his contempt and indifference to Government, identifies himself with its purposes, revives all
his military memories and symbols, and the State once more walks, an august presence, through the
imaginations of men.
---Randolph Bourne, in The State (http://fair-use.org/randolph-bourne/the-state/)
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@Wingnut
No, YOU should keep up. I said a fact - N. Korea threatened to do a preemptive strike on Guam. You said, "That doesn't make it true." Actually, you are all over this board with nonsense statements to everyone. Do whatever, but I won't answer anymore.
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever read on this site.. Good day Madam.
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Fine, then don't give me anecdotal BS and tell me the facts which artillery pieces they have in their possession that can reach that far. You can't.
There are plenty of published reports which also say you are wrong. But hey perhaps one of the highest ranking leaders in country didn't know what he was talking about.
I guess that's possible.
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People been saying they can't do this or do that for years. Yet they do it. They've gone from a rocket that blows up on the launch pad to an icbm faster then we did. They are getting help.
The other problem is they are bat crazy and acting like they have nothing to lose, ready to go out in a blaze of glory. And who knows what kind of scorched earth asymmetric crap they will come up with if they get cornered.
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Here's a little more information on NK "carefully examining" a strike on Guam. BTW "KCNA" is the news outlet of the NK government ... slightly less reliable than the NYT.
North Korea says seriously considering plan to strike Guam: KCNA
Reuters, Aug 8, 2017
SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea said on Wednesday it is "carefully examining" plans for a missile strike on the U.S. Pacific territory of Guam, just hours after U.S. President Donald Trump told the North that any threat to the United States would be met with "fire and fury".
North Korea has made no secret of plans to develop a nuclear-tipped missile able to strike the United States and has ignored international calls to halt its nuclear and missile programs.
The strike plan would be put into practice at any moment once leader Kim Jong Un makes a decision, a spokesman for the Korean People's Army (KPA) said in a statement carried by the North's state-run KCNA news agency.
"The KPA Strategic Force is now carefully examining the operational plan for making an enveloping fire at the areas around Guam with medium-to-long-range strategic ballistic rocket Hwasong-12 in order to contain the U.S. major military bases on Guam including the Anderson Air Force Base," the spokesman said.
The plan would be reported to the North's Supreme Command soon, the spokesman said, without citing a date.
More: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-usa-idUSKBN1AO2L9
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Interesting idea @kevindavis ......
I think it is a good deal that China should take if Trumps offer it and he should offer it. If they do take out the Kim family, I'm sure the NK army won't put up a fight.
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There are plenty of published reports which also say you are wrong. But hey perhaps one of the highest ranking leaders in country didn't know what he was talking about.
Again with the conveniently nebulous. Answer the question I posed, name the MG and post his findings, cite an article you mentioned, or STFU.
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There is hope. The South Koreans has developed new radar systems that can detect these pieces about 40 miles away. Its called ARTHUR
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2017/04/24/0200000000AEN20170424004651315.html
A M114 Howitzer 155mm shell can have a speed of 563meters/s or about 1200mph. At 40 miles, assuming around 45 degree launch (I'm too lazy to think about it beyond this), that gives you about 33.33 seconds notice.
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Fine, then don't give me anecdotal BS and tell me the facts which artillery pieces they have in their possession that can reach that far. You can't.
Even old Soviet surplus, if maintained, isn't a spitball shooter. Analysis of what NK had in 2010.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a6211/north-korea-conflict-weapons-available/
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This threat is overblown. Seoul is more than 30 mi from the border. The Norks have one model that reach that far with rocket assisted shells. They don't have many and the 170 mm size makes the rate of fire slow. They'd be spotted and hit with counter battery fire and air strikes quickly. They're more vulnerable to missiles, but the Norks need time to fuel them. They can't remain fueled indefinitely, since its corrosive.
Said by a keyboard warrior who has clearly never been to Soeul or the DMZ. As I've said in several previous posts Seoul has grown to within a stones throw of the DMZ...http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,274075.msg1407012.html#msg1407012
The horse has left the barn. Talk that we can, at this point, launch any type of military action short of a Declaration of War is simply naive or uninformed. The only way forward is overwhelming military deterance in cooperation with our allies in the region.
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Even old Soviet surplus, if maintained, isn't a spitball shooter. Analysis of what NK had in 2010.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a6211/north-korea-conflict-weapons-available/
Yes, I mentioned the 170mm gun discussed in the article previously. It's too cumbersome to be portable and has an extremely low rate of fire - about 2 rounds in 5 minutes with good crews. The city of Grozny was pounded by Russia in 1999 with heavy weapons unopposed and that still took months to destroy. Norks won't have anywhere near that time.
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Fine, then don't give me anecdotal BS and tell me the facts which artillery pieces they have in their possession that can reach that far. You can't.
Try this on for size: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/could-north-korea-annihilate-seoul-its-artillery-20345
They apparently have about 700 pieces that could reach that far.
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Said by a keyboard warrior who has clearly never been to Soeul or the DMZ. As I've said in several previous posts Seoul has grown to within a stones throw of the DMZ...http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,274075.msg1407012.html#msg1407012
The horse has left the barn. Talk that we can, at this point, launch any type of military action short of a Declaration of War is simply naive or uninformed. The only way forward is overwhelming military deterance in cooperation with our allies in the region.
Said by someone who can read a map and knows places like Bucheon and Uijeongbu aren't Seoul.
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Said by someone who can read a map and knows places like Bucheon and Uijeongbu aren't Seoul.
Uijeongbu isn't Seoul?
Well, technically no. But if you can point out the greenery separating the two, I'd be happy to entertain your POV.
From Buk-Uijeongbu in the north to Suwon in the south... it's a solid mass of cityscape.
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Try this on for size: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/could-north-korea-annihilate-seoul-its-artillery-20345
They apparently have about 700 pieces that could reach that far.
Thanks for supporting what I said. Try THIS on for size from the SAME article. Did you bother to read it or just cherry pick?
A 2011 study by the Nautilus Institute throws a considerable amount of cold water on this scenario. While the sheer number of artillery tubes could theoretically kill a large number of civilians, operational issues complicate matters and push the number of civilian casualties greatly downward. Despite the thousands of artillery pieces, only 700 heavier guns and rocket launchers, plus the newer 300-millimeter MRLs, have the range to strike Seoul. Only a third would normally be fired at once, and notional rates of fire would be slowed tremendously by the need to withdraw guns into their hardened artillery sites (HARTS) to shelter them from counter battery fire.
Other factors reduce the projected loss of life in the greater Seoul metropolitan area. The city has extensive air raid shelters for civilians that will quickly reduce the exposed population density. The North will struggle to keep these heavy artillery units supplied with shells, particularly with its aging supply system. Finally, U.S. and ROK forces will quickly begin hunting down units participating in the bombardment, causing their numbers to drop almost immediately.
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Said by someone who can read a map and knows places like Bucheon and Uijeongbu aren't Seoul.
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
Hey pal you might want to tuck that map under your arm and see if you can find your way out of your mother's basement...
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Uijeongbu isn't Seoul?
Well, technically no. But if you can point out the greenery separating the two, I'd be happy to entertain your POV.
Got an iPhone? Take a look at those silly dashes on the maps app that mark the boundary of the city. The two places I mentioned are outside them.
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Yes, I mentioned the 170mm gun discussed in the article previously. It's too cumbersome to be portable and has an extremely low rate of fire - about 2 rounds in 5 minutes with good crews. The city of Grozny was pounded by Russia in 1999 with heavy weapons unopposed and that still took months to destroy. Norks won't have anywhere near that time.
Popular Mechanics and Stratfor are more believable and the authority on this. So, you are implying that Popular Mechanics and other sources are lying? I believe Popular Mechanics and Stratfor. They would be more of an authority on this subject.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a6211/north-korea-conflict-weapons-available/
https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/how-north-korea-would-retaliate
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Hey pal you might want to tuck that map under your arm and see if you can find your way out of your mother's basement...
Mom passed away 2 years ago in NC. I've been a resident of KS for quite some time and I can guarantee my domicile in affluent Johnson County is a hell of a lot nicer than your Ted Kaczinsky hovel.
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Why North Korea Can’t Flatten Seoul https://skeptoid.com/blog/2013/03/11/why-north-korea-cant-flatten-seoul/ (https://skeptoid.com/blog/2013/03/11/why-north-korea-cant-flatten-seoul/)
Posted on March 11, 2013 by Mike Rothschild
In the past few weeks, North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un has been on a run of lunacy nearly unrivaled in the history of the division of Korea. He’s made the news by threatening the US with preemptive nuclear attack, releasing a series of bizarre videos depicting various people and places being engulfed in atomic fire, hanging out with Dennis Rodman and most recently, tearing up the armistice between North and South Korea.
One thing missing from this latest stream of belligerence and provocation is North Korea’s usual blustering about destroying Seoul in a “sea of fire.” This wild claim, a fixture of Kim family ranting for two decades, has become an accepted part of Korean military lore, and is often reprinted by both legitimate and fringe news outlets. It portrays the South Korean capital as held hostage by thousands of North Korean guns and missile batteries (some sources claim as many as 13,000) stationed in the Demilitarized Zone, all of which could open fire at any moment for any reason, unleashing a barrage of death that will flatten the entire city, killing millions in the process.
However, a cursory glance at the facts and figures hiding behind the bombast reveal that not only is this claim wildly overstated, it’s not even possible from a logistical standpoint. Yes, the North could do considerable damage to Seoul, killing thousands of civilians and wrecking buildings all across the city. But it’s a major exaggeration to say they could simply wipe Seoul off the map using conventional artillery and rockets. Why it’s not true is worth taking a closer look at. Please note that the following scenario doesn’t take into account any kind of attack with nuclear or chemical weapons, as there’s just not enough information to guess what North Korea’s true capacity is in those areas, assuming it has any.
A fantastic analysis of North Korea’s military capability http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/ (http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/) when it comes to attacking Seoul was done last year by security expert and consultant Roger Cavazos. It’s a long and striking piece, written with authoritative expertise and great detail, or as great detail as it’s possible to go into, given we’re talking about a country nicknamed the Hermit Kingdom.
As Cavazos writes, North Korea probably has about 20,000 total artillery pieces, rocket launchers and heavy mortars. But Seoul, 30 kilometers from the DMZ, is out of the range of most of these weapons. The two pieces that would be able to hit Seoul, and which are the cause of such concern, are the M-1978 KOKSAN 170 millimeter self-propelled gun and the MRL240 M-1985 rocket launcher. As with every gun, rocket and spoon in the Korean People’s Army (KPA), there’s no telling how many they really have, where they are and whether or not they work.
Cavazos’ best guess, backed up by data from globalsecurity.org, is that the KPA has around 500 KOKSAN guns and 200 rocket launchers deployed in the DMZ and targeting the South Korean capital. There are probably many more scattered around the country or attached to military units, but the more guns North Korea points at Seoul, the fewer they have to defend the rest of the border. So the total of around 700 “tubes” of artillery ranged on Seoul seems right. And a far cry from “13,000.”
Not all of those guns will be able to fire at the same time, as some will have to be reserved for defensive purposes and others will malfunction. Cavazos estimates that the best case for the KPA is 2/3 of them available for firing at one time. The KOKSAN can fire about four shells per minute in an opening burst, with the MRL being able to launch between 12 and 22 rockets per minute, though these rates of fire wouldn’t be sustainable during a prolonged battle. Assuming optimal function and maximum efficiency, North Korea will be able to drop about 3,600 shells and rockets per minute on Seoul during the opening stage of a bombardment.
Of course, in large-scale military operations, optimal function is rarely attained. Witness the number of duds that will be fired. During North Korea’s shelling of Yeonpyeong Island, on the west coast of South Korea, the KPA fired over 100 rounds, 25% of which failed to go off. This is an astronomically high number, and not at all in keeping with modern artillery technology. If North Korean artillery fails to explode at the same rate it did in 2010, that would reduce the number of hits on Seoul to about 2,700 per minute, leading to Cavazos estimating about 2,800 fatalities for each minute at that rate of fire, assuming the majority of the population of the city is standing in open ground – meaning as many as 64,000 South Koreans could be killed on the first day of any attack.
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I do not take any information from a source called Skeptoid.Each roughly ten-minute Skeptoid pocast episode focuses on a single issue that is generally pseudoscientific in nature. Transcriptions of the episodes are available on lineand usually fall into one of four categories:
Quackery medical modalities: such as homeopathy, reflexology, detoxification, or chiropractic
Popular cultural misconceptions: such as organic foods, SUVs, and global warming
Urban legends: such as crop circles, the Amityville Horror, the Phoenix Lights, or the Philadelphia Experiment
Religion and mythology: such as creation legends, New Age religions, and concepts of sin.
They believe that global warming is due to man.If they are believable why they are using a podcast instead of using normal mainstream media?
In other words subjects found on Coast-To-Coast.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Dunning_(author)
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Mom passed away 2 years ago in NC. I've been a resident of KS for quite some time and I can guarantee my domicile in affluent Johnson County is a hell of a lot nicer than your Ted Kaczinsky hovel.
I was endeavouring to be euphamistic. Claiming that your knowledge of Seoul based on reading an map and the boundries you see on your iphone is greater than those folks who have actually been there both as a civilian as as a member of the military for many months or years is ridiculous...
I guess I should be more direct...Hey boy get your head out your ass... :tongue2:
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Got an iPhone? Take a look at those silly dashes on the maps app that mark the boundary of the city. The two places I mentioned are outside them.
I said greenery. Arbitrary lines in the middle of an urban jungle doesn't make for a separate city, any more than Brooklyn is not part of New York City.
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Claiming that your knowledge of Seoul based on reading an map and the boundries you see on your iphone is greater than those folks who have actually been there for many months or years is ridiculous...
Lines on a current map are facts. I've spent a long time in the KC area. I'm guessing you haven't. However, if I told you Olathe was KC, you'd be correct in saying I was wrong.
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Arbitrary lines in the middle of an urban jungle doesn't make for a separate city
Can you be my advocate the next time I file my taxes or apply for zoning permits? Nevermind, it only sounded good for a microsecond.
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Popular Mechanics and Stratfor are more believable and the authority on this. So, you are implying that Popular Mechanics and other sources are lying? I believe Popular Mechanics and Stratfor. They would be more of an authority on this subject.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a6211/north-korea-conflict-weapons-available/
https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/how-north-korea-would-retaliate
Did you not read you own source material? The Stratfor article discusses the limits of their artillery effectiveness, which is entirely my point.
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Did you not read you own source material? The Stratfor article discusses the limits of their artillery effectiveness, which is entirely my point.
Popular Mechanics said this:
Long-range artillery
The 170mm (6.7") self-propelled gun, designated M1978 or M1987 is also an NK special, thought to have been derived from 1950's Russian coastal guns. The long-barreled weapon is mounted on a tank chassis, and can fire a rocket-assisted shell out to forty miles. When they were introduced in the 1978 they were claimed to have the longest range of any artillery piece in the world. The later version, first seen by Western analysts in 1987 and therefore called the M1987, carries 12 rounds of ammunition on board. The gun is externally mounted, leaving the crew exposed. The North Koreans exported these to Iran, where they saw use during the Iran-Iraq war; like the 240mm rocket launcher, they guns are made by North Korea's Third Machine Industry Bureau.
Bunkers
The North Korean military has long understood that fortified bunkers are the key to survival in the face of superior enemy air power. There are thousands of hardened underground bunkers close to the front line, and North Korean artillery will carry out "shoot and scoot" attacks, emerging briefly to fire and withdrawing rapidly. According to a RAND study, a multiple rocket launcher can be back under cover within 75 seconds of firing, according to a study by the Rand corporation
Stratfor said this:
The 170mm (6.7") self-propelled gun, designated M1978 or M1987 is also an NK special, thought to have been derived from 1950's Russian coastal guns. The long-barreled weapon is mounted on a tank chassis, and can fire a rocket-assisted shell out to forty miles. When they were introduced in the 1978 they were claimed to have the longest range of any artillery piece in the world. The later version, first seen by Western analysts in 1987 and therefore called the M1987, carries 12 rounds of ammunition on board. The gun is externally mounted, leaving the crew exposed. The North Koreans exported these to Iran, where they saw use during the Iran-Iraq war; like the 240mm rocket launcher, they guns are made by North Korea's Third Machine Industry Bureau.
To me, this a severe threat according to Popular Mechanics it has been modernized.The Pentagon knows its a threat and they must take them out immediately.
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It's BS. Their capabilities are being vastly overhyped by them and overrated by the news. Their guidance couldn't hit Guam and their re-entry vehicle can't make it here without burning up. The last one flared out on steep re-entry. The shallow angle required to reach CONUS would put it under more stress.
It doesnt have to reach us to start a nuclear or non nuclear retaliation.....followed by what God knows. Just shot at us is enough to unleash Hell.
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Did you not read you own source material? The Stratfor article discusses the limits of their artillery effectiveness, which is entirely my point.
It may be limited but they make it up with numbers. How would you feel when there is 12,000 artillery pieces pointed at one target, which is Seoul?
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It may be limited but they make it up with numbers. How would you feel when there is 12,000 artillery pieces pointed at one target, which is Seoul?
It matters if they had 12K of the pieces shown in the graphic, but they don't, do they?
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It matters if they had 12K of the pieces shown in the graphic, but they don't, do they?
Don;t be silly. How are you going to put that many on a map. I am willing to bet the Pentagon has all the positions of the artillery pieces in a database. Its only a representation. But this may help a little.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Don;t be silly. How are you going to put that many on a map. I am willing to bet the Pentagon has all the positions of the artillery pieces in a database. Its only a representation. But this may help a little.
:facepalm:
Why don't you read what I said and try again.
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:facepalm:
Why don't you read what I said and try again.
I guess you did not see the map of the suspected sites which are "hardened". The mobile ones would be hard to find because you can hide it underneath a net. I will publish it again for you to refresh your memory.
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They don't have a total of 12K of that type. The 240mm rocket and 170mm gun are the only ones that can reach Seoul. It's a fraction of their inventory and their limitations have been pointed out in other posts here.
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:thud:
They don't have a total of 12K of that type. The 240mm rocket and 170mm gun are the only ones that can reach Seoul. It's a fraction of their inventory and their limitations have been pointed out in other posts here.
The exact spots are probably in a database somewhere. Unless you have access to that database and share it with us. I am going with Popular Mechanics and Stratfor which have much more credibility in regards to this subject.
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:thud:
The exact spots are probably in a database somewhere. Unless you have access to that database and share it with us. I am going with Popular Mechanics and Stratfor which have much more credibility in regards to this subject.
You may want to read "Nuclear Showdown with North Korea" which goes into this subject even moire
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The exact spots are probably in a database somewhere. Unless you have access to that database and share it with us.
The exact spots are irrelevant. The fact of the matter is they don't have enough pieces that have the proper range to reach Seoul from behind the DMZ. They have 12-13K artillery pieces total. Of that, about 700 can reach Seoul. Those were the ones listed in your original picture -- 170mm gun and 240mm rockets.
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The exact spots are relevant. The fact of the matter is they don't have enough pieces that have the proper range to reach Seoul from behind the DMZ. They have 12-13K artillery pieces total. Of that, about 700 can reach Seoul. Those were the ones listed in your original picture -- 170mm gun and 240mm rockets.
Do not be silly. Those exact targets are probably so far up classified level that the President,the Joint Cheifs of Staff,ROK Army heads,and the Pentagon has them. The Pentagon can relay them to wither the Navy where they can launch cruise missiles are the USAF where they can take them out with a surgical strike. I am willing to bet the President has probably been briefed on this with this along with his daily briefings on the state of the world.
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I am going with Popular Mechanics and Stratfor which have much more credibility in regards to this subject.
If you're going to place your faith in Stratfor, you may actually want to read what they said. PM has stated similar analysis in their articles on the subject.
The North Korean military's most powerful tool is artillery. It cannot level Seoul as some reports have claimed, but it could do significant damage. Pyongyang risks deteriorating its forces by exposing them to return fire, however, which significantly restricts their use. Less conventional methods of retaliation, such as sabotage or cyber warfare, are less risky but also limit the shock that North Korea would desire.
After a strike, North Korea's most immediate and expected method of retaliation would center around conventional artillery. Many of the North's indirect fire systems are already located on or near the border with South Korea. By virtue of proximity and simplicity, these systems have a lower preparatory and response times than air assets, larger ballistic missiles or naval assets. Nevertheless, there are several critical limitations to their effectiveness.
Tube and Rocket Artillery
The biggest anticipated cost of a North Korean artillery barrage in response to an attack would be the at least partial destruction of Seoul. But the volume of fire that the North can direct against the South Korean capital is limited by some important factors. Of the vast artillery force deployed by the North along the border, only a small portion — Koksan 170-mm self-propelled guns, as well as 240-mm and 300-mm multiple launch rocket systems — are capable of actually reaching Seoul. Broadly speaking, the bulk of Pyongyang's artillery can reach only into the northern border area of South Korea or the northern outskirts of Seoul.
All forms of North Korean artillery have problems with volume and effectiveness of fire, but those issues are often more pronounced for the longer-range systems. Problems include the high malfunction rate of indigenous ammunition, poorly trained artillery crews, and a reluctance to expend critical artillery assets by exposing their positions.
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If you're going to place your faith in Stratfor, you may actually want to read what they said....
The North Korean military's most powerful tool is artillery. It cannot level Seoul as some reports have claimed, but it could do significant damage. Pyongyang risks deteriorating its forces by exposing them to return fire, however, which significantly restricts their use. Less conventional methods of retaliation, such as sabotage or cyber warfare, are less risky but also limit the shock that North Korea would desire.
After a strike, North Korea's most immediate and expected method of retaliation would center around conventional artillery. Many of the North's indirect fire systems are already located on or near the border with South Korea. By virtue of proximity and simplicity, these systems have a lower preparatory and response times than air assets, larger ballistic missiles or naval assets. Nevertheless, there are several critical limitations to their effectiveness.
Tube and Rocket Artillery
The biggest anticipated cost of a North Korean artillery barrage in response to an attack would be the at least partial destruction of Seoul. But the volume of fire that the North can direct against the South Korean capital is limited by some important factors. Of the vast artillery force deployed by the North along the border, only a small portion — Koksan 170-mm self-propelled guns, as well as 240-mm and 300-mm multiple launch rocket systems — are capable of actually reaching Seoul. Broadly speaking, the bulk of Pyongyang's artillery can reach only into the northern border area of South Korea or the northern outskirts of Seoul.
All forms of North Korean artillery have problems with volume and effectiveness of fire, but those issues are often more pronounced for the longer-range systems. Problems include the high malfunction rate of indigenous ammunition, poorly trained artillery crews, and a reluctance to expend critical artillery assets by exposing their positions.
Yes, but the North Korean Army will probably will follow orders with a penalty of death. The North Korean Army and people have been brainwashed since 1953 that the U.S. is the "enemy" and destroy us at all costs. I do not want to be the field commander who goes against the "Supreme Leader" orders. That commander disobeying an order would be on the receiving end of a firing squad.
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Yes, but the North Korean Army will probably will follow orders with a penalty of death. The North Korean Army and people have been brainwashed since 1953 that the U.S. is the "enemy" and destroy them at all costs. I do not want to be the field commander who goes against the "Supreme Leader". That commander would be on the receiving end of a firing squad.
non-sequitur
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non-sequitur
You know how crazy Kim Jung Il is. He has killed most of his own family and members of the armed forces. He was even brazen enough to have North Korean agents wipe nerve agent on his brother's face in the middle of an airport killing him on the spot.He has has people killed by anti aircraft guns. Would you go against an order from Kim Jung Il to attack?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10272953/Kim-Jong-uns-ex-lover-executed-by-firing-squad.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/kim-jong-nam-murder-video-shows-moment-kim-jong-un-n723236
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/02/10/north-korea-executions/80173970/
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP10.HTM
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You know how crazy Kim Il Jung is. He has killed most of his own family and members of the armed forces. He was even brazen enough to wipe nerve agent on his brother's face in the middle of an airport. Would you go against an order from Kim Il Jung to attack?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10272953/Kim-Jong-uns-ex-lover-executed-by-firing-squad.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/kim-jong-nam-murder-video-shows-moment-kim-jong-un-n723236
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/02/10/north-korea-executions/80173970/
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP10.HTM
That's what scares me more about NK than how many artillery pieces they have. They're crazy, they have several enablers, and they've had a whole lot of time to cook up who knows what.
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That's what scares me more about NK than how many artillery pieces they have. They're crazy, they have several enablers, and they've had a whole lot of time to cook up who knows what.
I agree. Kim Jung Il is absolutely nuts. Kim would use his weapons against South Korea in a heartbeat if he could get away with it. Kim wants a Korean Peninsula entirely under communist rule. This is why the world(including China) needs to tighten the noose around his country and regime. Every move he makes keep on slapping him with sanctions.
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:amen:
That's what scares me more about NK than how many artillery pieces they have. They're crazy, they have several enablers, and they've had a whole lot of time to cook up who knows what.
You also need to remember, that Kim is starving his own people while his million man army is very well fed. North Korea is literally in the dark if you look at the satellite picture. The only splatter of light is Pyongyang where the Party bosses reside.
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