The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Chosen Daughter on April 21, 2017, 05:55:35 am
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Florida Teacher Bans Cross Necklaces in Class, Promotes LGBT Day of Silence
By Samuel Smith , CP Reporter
Apr 20, 2017 | 7:25 PM
A national religious liberty law firm is threatening to sue a Florida public school district over allegations that a high school math teacher forced Christian students to remove cross necklaces and that she is engaging in LGBT activism in her classroom.
The Liberty Counsel sent a demand letter on Thursday to Superintendent Jeff Eakins of Hillsborough County Public Schools on behalf of a ninth-grade student who claims that her math teacher at Riverview High School, Lora Jane Riedas, required her to remove her cross while in class.
According to the letter, Riedas has banned as many as three students from wearing crosses in her classroom, "claiming on occasion that they are 'gang symbols.'" The cross pendant that the teacher allegedly forced the ninth-grade client to remove was less than an inch long.
"One of our student clients reports that she had just sat down in class, and placed her books on her desk, when Ms. Riedas approached her," the letter reads. "Referencing the tiny cross necklace which was around the student's neck, Ms. Riedas said, 'I need you to take your necklace off.'"
"Our client asked 'Why?' and Ms. Riedas refused to explain, stating, 'That's disrespectful; you have to take it off,'" Liberty Counsel stated. "Our client did not want to be disrespectful, so she took it off, but she felt bad because she felt she was being forced to deny her faith. All of our clients are afraid to openly wear their cross necklaces in class any more."
Liberty Counsel also accuses Riedas, a lesbian who is believed to be the school's Gay, Straight Alliance sponsor, of engaging in "political activism" in her classroom, which is "permanently decorated with LGBT political themes" and "buttons prominently displayed on her desk, facing students, stating 'I Love My LGBT Students' and 'PROUD Public Employee.'"
"Moreover, at the beginning of the semester, Ms. Riedas placed LGBT rainbow stickers on students' classroom folders without their consent, which were there one day when the students arrived. One of our clients reports that after she removed the LGBT sticker, Ms. Riedas' behavior toward her changed markedly for the worse."
Liberty Counsel accuses the teacher of seeking opportunities to engage in "classroom activism" directed by GLSEN (formally known as the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network), an organization that "seeks to end discrimination, harassment, and bullying based on sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression in K-12 schools."
The demand letter was sent just two days before Friday's GLSEN "Day of Silence," which is described as an annual "student-led national event organized in thousands of schools, bringing awareness to the silencing effects of anti-LGBTQ name-calling, bullying and harassment in schools."
The event allows for students across the United States to take a vow of silence in hopes it causes people to address anti-LGBT bullying in schools.
According to Liberty Counsel, GLSEN "has called on teachers to use its 'Educator Guide' to promote GLSEN's views about homosexuality and gender confusion on 'Day of Silence,'" and to do so this Friday, April 21, 2017."
"GLSEN's guide encourages teachers to require students to engage in numerous forms of coercive, group, political activism, from grades K-12, regardless of parent desires or student religious beliefs, with no opt-out from classroom coercion," the letter asserts. "Students can either 'go along to get along,' or risk being 'outed' as disagreeing with the teacher and GLSEN's LGBT viewpoint."
The GLSEN educator's guide encourages teachers to do a number of different things with their students to advocate for LGBT rights and end bullying.
"Ms. Riedas has further engaged in impermissible LGBT political activism in the classroom, and has indicated her intent to further do so during instructional time," the letter claims. "Ms. Riedas is planning to promote GLSEN's 'Day of Silence' coercive political activities during instructional time in her classroom on Friday, April 21, 2017."
The letter points out that Riedas retweeted GLSEN's guide around 10 a.m. on Wednesday, April 5. The letter also outlines other instances in which she tweeted or "liked" LGBT causes on social media during school hours.
Liberty Counsel argues that Riedas' political activism in the classroom violates school district policy, which states that teachers "may not campaign on school property during working hours on behalf of any political issue."
The letter requests that the school district take action and confirm that it will prohibit Riedas from "interfering with student religious expression" and from "promoting LGBT political activism during instructional time on April 21, or at any other time, using any of the attached ideas in GLSEN's 'guide.'"
The letter also asks that the school force Riedas to remove pro-LGBT material from her classroom and unrequested LGBT stickers from students' classroom folders.
Finally, the letter demands that the school replace Riedas as a sponsor of the school's Gay, Straight Alliance and appoint a faculty member who can run the club as a supervisor, not an activist.
Liberty Counsel is threatening to file a federal civil rights lawsuit against the school district if it does not take the actions requested by the end of business on Thursday.
"We are in receipt of the letter from the Liberty Counsel. We have been in contact with the principal to initiate an investigation," a school district representative told The Christian Post on Thursday afternoon. "However, the principal says she has not received a complaint from any student or parent regarding any claims made in the Liberty Counsel document regarding this teacher."
CP reached out to Riedas for comment but a response could not be received by press time.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/florida-teacher-bans-cross-necklaces-in-class-promotes-lgbt-day-of-silence-181167/
Am I missing Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? Or the Free Exercise of Religion?
No, didn't miss it because it is missing from the new agenda to snuff out Liberty and Justice for all.
It is blatant forced social engineering.
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But we are being told, right now, on this very board - that homosexual marriages and relationships are virtuous and pose absolutely no threat whatsoever to anyone.
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But we are being told, right now, on this very board - that homosexual marriages and relationships are virtuous and pose absolutely no threat whatsoever to anyone.
Doesn't look like no threat to me. People on this board have also said oh, 1 bakery..........etc. No there is a whole list of businesses who have been railroaded by the gay agenda. They don't want liberty. They want your faith and your business. Your heart and mind. And they want your life savings if you don't play their game.
They are attacking our children at school with their gay agenda.
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But we are being told, right now, on this very board - that homosexual marriages and relationships are virtuous and pose absolutely no threat whatsoever to anyone.
Who's saying that? Since it is so pervasive I'm sure you won't have any trouble posting direct quotes from these folks.
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I wear my grandmother's chai necklace. Would she make me remove that too, since it's a religious symbol?
if I had a child I'd homeschool. Problem solved.
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The fact that people feel the need to violate the first amendment to promote their own causes says a lot about these petty tyrants
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Promotion of deviancy and destruction of Christianity go hand in hand.
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Who's saying that? Since it is so pervasive I'm sure you won't have any trouble posting direct quotes from these folks.
I've seen it as well.
@INVAR @Frank Cannon @Jazzhead
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Who's saying that? Since it is so pervasive I'm sure you won't have any trouble posting direct quotes from these folks.
Plenty here.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,258231.0.html
Did you know that gays have messed up children because only gays are virtuous enough to adopt the children that no one else wants? :silly:
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i wish i looked young enough to enroll in school. I'd love to spend a week in her classroom wearing my cross and carrying my Bible. And I have some suggestions where she could place her sticker on my folder....
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i wish i looked young enough to enroll in school. I'd love to spend a week in her classroom wearing my cross and carrying my Bible. And I have some suggestions where she could place her sticker on my folder....
I'm local and several groups here are taking this up. It won't stand.
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But we are being told, right now, on this very board - that homosexual marriages and relationships are virtuous and pose absolutely no threat whatsoever to anyone.
Exactly. When the LBGT crowd starts mandating that others accept their beliefs and have to deny their own beliefs; its time to put a STOP to accommodating them. They are a sick minority who have no business in our schools or bathrooms and sure as hell don't deserve equal rights.
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I'm local and several groups here are taking this up. It won't stand.
I reside in FL as well. Luckily I have a very strong conservative in my House district. I will be contacting him to see if there is anyway he can help.
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Doesn't look like no threat to me. People on this board have also said oh, 1 bakery..........etc. No there is a whole list of businesses who have been railroaded by the gay agenda. They don't want liberty. They want your faith and your business. Your heart and mind. And they want your life savings if you don't play their game.
They are attacking our children at school with their gay agenda.
Once again Christianity is under attack and our students are the target...between ISLAM and the LGBT community they are being bombarded by anti-Christian influences.
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Well, I looked her up. A lipstick lesbian she is not.
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Who's saying that? Since it is so pervasive I'm sure you won't have any trouble posting direct quotes from these folks.
I have not been here very long but I have never hear anyone say that the "gay agenda" (same sex marriage) was virtuous and non threatening towards Christians beliefs. Quite the opposite in fact.
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Scratch a progressive activist, find a tyrant better suited to run a concentration camp than a classroom.
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Scratch a progressive activist, find a tyrant better suited to run a concentration camp than a classroom.
Been going on for decades. I learned my lesson 45 years ago, on the same campus that produced Rachel Maddow. You should have seen and heard the outrage heaped on me my last two months of high school. My crime? I accepted a 4 year Army ROTC Scholarship, one that would pay tuition, books, lab fees, etc. at any of over 300 colleges nationwide.
I was a "sell out", "babykiller", and other descriptive terms. One of my teachers, a chairman of the local George McGovern campaign, said to my face how "disappointed" he was with my decision. I laughed: I compared my schollie to those won by the valedictorian, such as a $250 Reader's Digest award. I was barely in the top 10% of my class, and I was getting an all-expenses paid trip to the college of my choice, which would be followed by four years active duty as an officer.
There was only one teacher who supported me: my calculus teacher, who was a former Jesuit priest at Marquette. He was thrilled that I chose to matriculate at Gonzaga.
Have never been back, haven't missed a thing. That was confirmed by my sister and BIL, who graduated two years ahead of me. About the only good that came of it was they reconnected, and would be married a couple of years hence.
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Been going on for decades. I learned my lesson 45 years ago, on the same campus that produced Rachel Maddow. You should have seen and heard the outrage heaped on me my last two months of high school. My crime? I accepted a 4 year Army ROTC Scholarship, one that would pay tuition, books, lab fees, etc. at any of over 300 colleges nationwide.
I was a "sell out", "babykiller", and other descriptive terms. One of my teachers, a chairman of the local George McGovern campaign, said to my face how "disappointed" he was with my decision. I laughed: I compared my schollie to those won by the valedictorian, such as a $250 Reader's Digest award. I was barely in the top 10% of my class, and I was getting an all-expenses paid trip to the college of my choice, which would be followed by four years active duty as an officer.
There was only one teacher who supported me: my calculus teacher, who was a former Jesuit priest at Marquette. He was thrilled that I chose to matriculate at Gonzaga.
Have never been back, haven't missed a thing. That was confirmed by my sister and BIL, who graduated two years ahead of me. About the only good that came of it was they reconnected, and would be married a couple of years hence.
The Social Engineering is blatant.
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Been going on for decades. I learned my lesson 45 years ago, on the same campus that produced Rachel Maddow. You should have seen and heard the outrage heaped on me my last two months of high school. My crime? I accepted a 4 year Army ROTC Scholarship, one that would pay tuition, books, lab fees, etc. at any of over 300 colleges nationwide.
I was a "sell out", "babykiller", and other descriptive terms. One of my teachers, a chairman of the local George McGovern campaign, said to my face how "disappointed" he was with my decision. I laughed: I compared my schollie to those won by the valedictorian, such as a $250 Reader's Digest award. I was barely in the top 10% of my class, and I was getting an all-expenses paid trip to the college of my choice, which would be followed by four years active duty as an officer.
There was only one teacher who supported me: my calculus teacher, who was a former Jesuit priest at Marquette. He was thrilled that I chose to matriculate at Gonzaga.
Have never been back, haven't missed a thing. That was confirmed by my sister and BIL, who graduated two years ahead of me. About the only good that came of it was they reconnected, and would be married a couple of years hence.
Campus leftwing radicals have been a force since the 30s.
Proving Churchill's maxim - If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.
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I reside in FL as well. Luckily I have a very strong conservative in my House district. I will be contacting him to see if there is anyway he can help.
I am glad that you two are local and can call your Representatives about this. Today is the gay day nationwide. We probably have no idea how many teachers are pushing this day of silence. And on the off days they are leading up to it with daily talks on diversity.
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Campus leftwing radicals have been a force since the 30s.
Proving Churchill's maxim - If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.
LOL - I'd like to think that Sir Winston would have been proud of me. At 18, I worked on the McGovern campaign (though I admit it was more for extra credit in Civics class...not that I needed it). At 26, I was an advocate for a Reagan victory, engaging in conversations with my German neighbors, in German, at the local gasthaus in the weeks leading up to the election. They were convinced Reagan would start WWIII. Many neighbors came of age during WWII, so it wasn't a slam dunk. It took until Inauguration Day, and the release of the hostages, for them to come around.
Long story short, I did my job well enough to be invited to sit at the stammtisch for my last six months in country. It's an honor I cherish to this day, to sit at the table designate for family, and close friends of the family.
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Poor woman would never make it in our school district. Our kids wear various t-shirts from our church to school, such as the HS ministry and middle school shirts. A lot of thought and imagination go into each year's version, and the designers do a good job on making the shirts attractive to those age groups.
It's not just our church, other denominations have grown enormously over the past 20 years, as the town has grown from 20K to 40K+.
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If you wore the crucifix upside down it would be no problem.
But I think she is setting up a lawsuit. She's no different from a person who pours soap on the floor and then 'slips' in Walmart. She wants to be censured so she can sue. Like most people in a "protected class", she believes that the normal rules of civil behavior do not apply to her. She can do any vulgar, inappropriate action that she wants to, and if anyone protests it is obviously because they hate gay people, of course.
This will end in a lawsuit. It has to. Because her inappropriate behavior will continue to escalate until she gets what she wants, whatever it takes.
I have seen this scam a hundred times and this situation is no different from all of them.
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Why isn't the 'teacher' in the hospital already, under 24/7 protection? *****rollingeyes*****
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LOL - I'd like to think that Sir Winston would have been proud of me. At 18, I worked on the McGovern campaign (though I admit it was more for extra credit in Civics class...not that I needed it). At 26, I was an advocate for a Reagan victory, engaging in conversations with my German neighbors, in German, at the local gasthaus in the weeks leading up to the election. They were convinced Reagan would start WWIII. Many neighbors came of age during WWII, so it wasn't a slam dunk. It took until Inauguration Day, and the release of the hostages, for them to come around.
Long story short, I did my job well enough to be invited to sit at the stammtisch for my last six months in country. It's an honor I cherish to this day, to sit at the table designate for family, and close friends of the family.
Looked Stammitsch up. Imagine its pretty rare to be considered a 'regular guy' in a foreign culture.
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Lesbians always wear mens style of jacket like Sally Kohn on CNN. The one on the right proves my theory that gays get a wrong dose of hormones while in the womb. No all day gig at Macy's Glamour shots would make that woman look like a woman.
(http://lc.org/PDFs/Attachments2PRsLAs/2017/Teacher.PNG)
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But we are being told, right now, on this very board - that homosexual marriages and relationships are virtuous and pose absolutely no threat whatsoever to anyone.
@INVAR
Please post a comment plus poster's name, on this board that says that.
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Poor woman would never make it in our school district. Our kids wear various t-shirts from our church to school, such as the HS ministry and middle school shirts. A lot of thought and imagination go into each year's version, and the designers do a good job on making the shirts attractive to those age groups.
It's not just our church, other denominations have grown enormously over the past 20 years, as the town has grown from 20K to 40K+.
I live 10 miles from this school and know kids in it. There are bible study groups who meet every morning to pray. They certainly wear their tshirts. Its not all of the kids or even enough of the kids that do that but there are good kids there.
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I wear my grandmother's chai necklace. Would she make me remove that too, since it's a religious symbol?
if I had a child I'd homeschool. Problem solved.
@Freya
I would put mine in private school. I was an associate school psychologist - I wouldn't work in a school that promoted LGBT activities. I'd work in a generic private school or Catholic private school. Our country has become Sodom and Gomorrah.
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@INVAR
Please post a comment plus poster's name, on this board that says that.
@Victoria33 @INVAR
@Jazzhead said it on the NC marriage thread. I'm not gonna search the thread for the specific comment for you though.
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@Victoria33 @INVAR
@Jazzhead said it on the NC marriage thread. I'm not gonna search the thread for the specific comment for you though.
This thread is not in any way about gay marriage or gay relationships. It is about a person, gay/Black/whatever, who is baiting a lawsuit with absurd and obviously inappropriate behavior.
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This thread is not in any way about gay marriage or gay relationships. It is about a person, gay/Black/whatever, who is baiting a lawsuit with absurd and obviously inappropriate behavior.
@240B
Its about a gay person (activist) violating the first amendment rights of students. Not a whatever or a black person.
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Why isn't the 'teacher' in the hospital already, under 24/7 protection? *****rollingeyes*****
Why hasn't her superior, presumably the Principal, told her to tone it down a lot?
Yet another frigging example of the inmates, running the asylum.
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Why hasn't her superior, presumably the Principal, told her to tone it down a lot?
Yet another frigging example of the inmates, running the asylum.
The HS Adm says they had no idea this was going on until the letter came. No students had come forward to complain to the Principal or staff.
Yeah right! CYA time my friends CYA
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Looked Stammitsch up. Imagine its pretty rare to be considered a 'regular guy' in a foreign culture.
I served in Germany as well, and I understand the sentiment of our member. My wife had a "run in" with a German neighbor, but it ended okay.
We were an occupying force, and they were a defeated nation, holding onto some pride. Single guys drank and made asses of themselves, in their neighborhood pubs and bars. Those places have a cultural significance.
Moving to the regular table, means you became a friend and neighbor, not a mere customer to be barely tolerated.
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But we are being told, right now, on this very board - that homosexual marriages and relationships are virtuous and pose absolutely no threat whatsoever to anyone.
If you will explain to me what the gay marriage issue has to do with this, it would be appreciated.
Why don't you stay over on what I have come to think of as the hysterical thread.
Your post aside, this sort of thing will not be tolerated under the new education policy. This is what we have Betsy DeVos for.
Parents are not as involved as they used to be because most mothers work. Not faulting them for that but ...
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@Victoria33 @INVAR
@Jazzhead said it on the NC marriage thread. I'm not gonna search the thread for the specific comment for you though.
@driftdiver
@Freya
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon
@txradioguy
@roamer_1
I had not read that thread, so I've now read some on there. Some said we should stay out of marriages, it is not our business what two adult people do. I agree with that. However, it IS our business what schools do with our children. "Gays" can do whatever they want, it is not my business. However, "gays" have united to force their lifestyle into our schools - that IS my business.
A family related member living in Ohio, is a junior in high school, and last week, was LGBT observance week, and she was forced to hear about that lifestyle, and there was a film shown over and over on the main wall as one comes into the school, every day it is shown over and over, in that school with various LGBT sayings and one was about religion, said something like this, "Any religion in the world is the same with the same outcome." That means the Muslim religion, ANY religion is the same as a Christian religion, all have the same outcome.
When she told her father (they are a religious family) what was happening, the first day this started last week, he met with the principal who was a wimp, but said he should have notified parents in advance, and then the father met with the Superintendent, who did not know this was happening. He said the first thing the Superintendent said to him was, "You need to know I am a conservative, I have my guns at my house, I am one of you. I am going to go meet with that principal as soon as you leave here." He also told him to write a letter to the school board, gave him the name of the president, and said it would be brought up at the next meeting and he would tell him when that was going to happen.
That father isn't going to let this die. He will be at the board meeting.
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If you will explain to me what the gay marriage issue has to do with this, it would be appreciated.
Doubtful, but I'll explain anyway. The Homosexual marriage issue and this issue are linked via the fact that homosexuality in all it's forms will work to strip the liberty and free exercise away of anyone who thinks their behavior is sinful. They will punish, attempt to shame, and even destroy those representations of religion that they find offensive and does not accept their lifestyle. AND they will indoctrinate and force others to accept, adopt promote and even practice their behavior, even using coercion and threat to do so.
Just like we see them doing to businesses and people that refuse to cater and celebrate a homosexual wedding.
Tyranny. That is what this story and the homosexual marriage thread have to do with one another.
Why don't you stay over on what I have come to think of as the hysterical thread.
Look lady -
(https://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/hot-cup-shut-up.jpg)
I'll post my opinion where I feel like posting it. How's that?
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@driftdiver
@Freya
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon
@txradioguy
@roamer_1
I had not read that thread, so I've now read some on there. Some said we should stay out of marriages, it is not our business what two adult people do. I agree with that. However, it IS our business what schools do with our children. "Gays" can do whatever they want, it is not my business. However, "gays" have united to force their lifestyle into our schools - that IS my business.
A family related member living in Ohio, is a junior in high school, and last week, was LGBT observance week, and she was forced to hear about that lifestyle, and there was a film shown over and over on the main wall as one comes into the school, every day it is shown over and over, in that school with various LGBT sayings and one was about religion, said something like this, "Any religion in the world is the same with the same outcome." That means the Muslim religion, ANY religion is the same as a Christian religion, all have the same outcome.
When she told her father (they are a religious family) what was happening, the first day this started last week, he met with the principal who was a wimp, but said he should have notified parents in advance, and then the father met with the Superintendent, who did not know this was happening. He said the first thing the Superintendent said to him was, "You need to know I am a conservative, I have my guns at my house, I am one of you. I am going to go meet with that principal as soon as you leave here." He also told him to write a letter to the school board, gave him the name of the president, and said it would be brought up at the next meeting and he would tell him when that was going to happen.
That father isn't going to let this die. He will be at the board meeting.
@Victoria33
We homeschooled our kids because our district was failing our kids. In retrospect while our kids have moved on to college (going into med school and engineering school) I think it was a mistake. They did miss out on some opportunities.
I think its a mistake to concede public schools to the leftists. Whoever controls education controls the past and the future. They are editing history books to remove vital events and ideas. There are many good teachers left in schools but we need to take back control from the feds. Return it to the States and Countys where Principals & teachers can be held accountable.
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@INVAR
Quote from: INVAR on Today at 01:00:39 AM
But we are being told, right now, on this very board - that homosexual marriages and relationships are virtuous and pose absolutely no threat whatsoever to anyone.
Please post a comment plus poster's name, on this board that says that.
"I have gay relatives and friends, who've married in recent years, and they live quiet, productive, honest, joyous and virtuous lives....Because they are virtuous, and I believe that is what God wants us to be."
"...these folks are as virtuous, if not more so, than you. You are as despicable a human being as I've ever encountered on the internet."
And then this entire thread where he posts his views that homosexuality is virtuous and of no threat to anyone:
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,258231.0.html
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@Victoria33
I think its a mistake to concede public schools to the leftists. Whoever controls education controls the past and the future. They are editing history books to remove vital events and ideas.
@driftdiver
@Freya
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon
What you and others likely don't know about school textbooks:
Texas buys more school textbooks than any other state. Publishers first go to Texas to get our Texas State School Board to approve their textbooks before they actually publish them. Our State School Board is made up of a high majority of conservative Christians - at most only one or two/three liberals would get on there and sometimes none would be on there. The people who run for that board, go around the state and meet with the county Republican Party to try to get their votes. They came to our county Republican Party when my husband was the county chair for ten years. They make their pitch and we would decide which candidates we wanted elected and get that out in the county.
All textbooks are not yearly changed. Two or three at the most a year, such as maybe newly written math books and history books would be there. The Board would go over each subject book and make changes if they were required to be truthful - there were always changes to history books to keep them truthful. Only after the publisher agreed to the changes, would they approve a text book. The publisher would then print their books with these changes and those were the books offered to all other states.
I used to see/hear those Board meetings in real time as Texas makes them available on a certain TV station. The few liberals on there would have hissy fits as conservatives would change textbooks.
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Why isn't the 'teacher' in the hospital already, under 24/7 protection? *****rollingeyes*****
I would simply refer to the school by laws and dress code. Show me in the dress code where it stipulates that students cannot wear crosses. As a parent I would yank my child out of any school that would demand that students not wear crosses.
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I served in Germany as well, and I understand the sentiment of our member. My wife had a "run in" with a German neighbor, but it ended okay.
We were an occupying force, and they were a defeated nation, holding onto some pride. Single guys drank and made asses of themselves, in their neighborhood pubs and bars. Those places have a cultural significance.
Moving to the regular table, means you became a friend and neighbor, not a mere customer to be barely tolerated.
I absolutely loved my time in Germany (77-81). The Mosel region is comprised mostly of small towns, with the exception of Trier, whose population now is around 115K, so it's not a large city. My first two years were at Hahn AB, where free time was hard to find. A normal month would include Staff Duty Officer every 3rd day, and 2-3 times on weekends. My minimal language skills came from Berlitz, and eating out. I was never a ladies man, though I did have a lady friend that I met on the base (she was an AF E-6).
Once I moved to Battalion HQ at Spangdahlem, my free time grew exponentially (SDO a couple of times a month). I had the time to take a couple of German immersion courses, and it paid huge dividends.
One finds disagreeable people no matter where you travel. One night, I decided to dine at another establishment that had the best cheeseburgers I ever had. That night, I decided to dine in. At a nearby table, a couple of young German men were saying very unkind things about my country, and countrymen. Many words would be bleeped by the mods here...lol.
The proprietor looked very uncomfortable, as he knew my German was pretty good. I smiled and reassured him that I paid them no mind. As I was leaving, I swung by their table, and in my best German, said (smiling) "you know, there are some Americans that I know that think some Germans are real ascheloches. The owner just about fell off his seat, he was laughing so hard. I nodded to him, said "Tschuss", and headed for home.
My best friend fell in love with a German girl a few months upon his arrival. Even he said that I was the first American he knew of that's been invited to sit at the stammtische.
The honor came in handy during my last battalion tac eval. The old man (Battalion Cdr) wanted some imagination in our briefings, and I delivered it in spades. As the Battalion S-4 (Supply Officer), I put together a resupply scenario that might be considered outrageous, including local merchants for foodstuffs and POL should our supply lines be cut. As I gave my briefing, the chief evaluator became very agitated, while my boss had a big grin on his face...he loved it.
After the briefing, the evaluator (a LT Colonel) gets in my face (I was still a 1LT at the time, though I may have been on the Captain's list) demanding where I got my information. I simply replied I was following my boss' instructions to show some imagination, that after four years in the operating area, I knew it like the back of my hand, and I knew many of the proprietors that were part of this "alternate resupply". Our battalion was 90 miles from Group HQ, my vehicle repair parts came from Baumholder, 60 miles away, and weapons systems parts came from various depots. We were isolated, and had units at the 3 air bases in the area: Bitburg, Spangdahlem, and Hahn. It was a unique, and rewarding assignment.
I suggested to the evaluator that we stop for a meal at a gasthaus the next day, so I could demonstrate I wasn't just talking BS. One of the evaluation team members stepped in, and said, "Colonel, you don't need to. I've been with the LT at that place, and we sat at the stammtische." Checkmate.
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Your post aside, this sort of thing will not be tolerated under the new education policy. This is what we have Betsy DeVos for.
What new education policy is that? No conservative thinks the federal government should be in charge of schools.
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What new education policy is that? No conservative thinks the federal government should be in charge of schools.
Ms. DeVos believes in vouchers and school choice. If she can get her policies in place, a person with a child in a bad school could receive a voucher to use at a private school. She also believes in charter schools..
I also believe she would be an enemy to the teachers unions which are mostly responsible for keeping bad teachers in their jobs.
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Doubtful, but I'll explain anyway. The Homosexual marriage issue and this issue are linked via the fact that homosexuality in all it's forms will work to strip the liberty and free exercise away of anyone who thinks their behavior is sinful. They will punish, attempt to shame, and even destroy those representations of religion that they find offensive and does not accept their lifestyle. AND they will indoctrinate and force others to accept, adopt promote and even practice their behavior, even using coercion and threat to do so.
Just like we see them doing to businesses and people that refuse to cater and celebrate a homosexual wedding.
I'll post my opinion where I feel like posting it. How's that?
Perfectly acceptable to me, although I stand by my original opinion that you brought the gay marriage issue into a thread about something else but obviously you wished to continue to vent on gay marriage. So, yeah, okay.
By the way, the cake issue, etc. are extremely isolated and well-publicized incidents that reflect more on the government people who let them get by with this than on the activists gays who would never pursue such things if they didn't think they could win.
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Ms. DeVos believes in vouchers and school choice. If she can get her policies in place, a person with a child in a bad school could receive a voucher to use at a private school. She also believes in charter schools..
I also believe she would be an enemy to the teachers unions which are mostly responsible for keeping bad teachers in their jobs.
How is any of that a federal thing? Shut the department down.
Charter schools are still technically government schools using the government school curriculum and many of them have been caught as scams in my state.
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How is any of that a federal thing? Shut the department down.
Charter schools are still technically government schools using the government school curriculum and many of them have been caught as scams in my state.
As long as we have a Department of Education, we need a good person to run it. Obviously, charter schools need to be more closely monitored. Are you also against vouchers?
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As long as we have a Department of Education, we need a good person to run it. Obviously, charter schools need to be more closely monitored. Are you also against vouchers?
I am against public education.
"As long as we have a dictatorship-tyranny, we need a good person to run it."
Abolish it. Quickly.
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I am against public education.
"As long as we have a dictatorship-tyranny, we need a good person to run it."
Abolish it. Quickly.
Well, don't tell me, write to your congressperson and President.
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I absolutely loved my time in Germany (77-81).
My shorter time was at Wharton Barracks, in Heilbronn-1969-70. As a draftee I made Spec 5, and lived off base with my wife and daughter.
I was the battalion Morning Report clerk. As such I had to complete my work by 11:00 am, six days a week. My boss kept me off extra duty most of the time, and it was pretty easy duty.
We socialized with other young enlisted couples. Everybody knew of Gasthauses, of various types.
One couple lived out in a village, walking distance to a Gasthaus, which we frequented. When each of us were headed back for discharge, the proprietor made a point to give us nice bottles of wine.
We had been good customers. No rowdiness, just young marrieds with babies. We had many good times. I had 3 years of German in high school, so caught on pretty quickly with language. But not before I made an unexpectedly big adjustment to regional dialect, from school version German.
At that time, there were no McDonalds, Walmarts or Starbucks. Just authentic Germany. It was rare to see an American brand or vehicle off the base.
If we take a trip to Europe, my wife wants to see Germany again. I would prefer exploring other places. Me: Spain/Portugal, Ireland/Scotland, Sweden.
I guess today they are overrun by muslims and McDonalds everywhere in Germany. Back in my day, some Turks did KP for us.
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If we take a trip to Europe, my wife wants to see Germany again. I would prefer exploring other places. Me: Spain/Portugal, Ireland/Scotland, Sweden.
I guess today they are overrun by muslims and McDonalds everywhere in Germany.
My sister and BIL visited Germany last summer to visit the little town and base he was first stationed in the late 70's.
Majority Muslim now because a refugee center was opened in the town nearby and they spread out.
The hotel clerk told them not to go out after dark. When my BIL visited the base my sister went to visit the family they rented a little apartment from and the Muslim men gave her mean looks because she was by herself. The same family still owns the apartment but now the kids own it and they gave her plenty of hand wringing about the Muslims.
Before this she always thought I was being melodramatic about Muslims taking over Europe...no longer. She was woken up.
@truth_seeker
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I stand by my original opinion that you brought the gay marriage issue into a thread about something else
It's not about something else. The issue is homosexuality and the homosexual agenda being promoted, insisted and championed as virtue while denouncing biblical Christians who are in the presence of those pushing homosexuality. It's the same argument - just different venues and instances of how it is being pushed by activists and acolytes.
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My sister and BIL visited Germany last summer to visit the little town and base he was first stationed in the late 70's.
Majority Muslim now because a refugee center was opened in the town nearby and they spread out.
The hotel clerk told them not to go out after dark. When my BIL visited the base my sister went to visit the family they rented a little apartment from and the Muslim men gave her mean looks because she was by herself. The same family still owns the apartment but now the kids own it and they gave her plenty of hand wringing about the Muslims.
Before this she always thought I was being melodramatic about Muslims taking over Europe...no longer. She was woken up.
@truth_seeker
I forget. Was it you that said we shouldn't judge people as groups? It might have been someone else.
I'm with you on the Muslims. They are a threat, and the sooner people realize they are a threat, the sooner steps can be taken to address the problem.
I think the Islamic religion is simply incompatible with Western civilization. It has a very different set of principles and a very different foundational basis.
We can't have tolerance or equality with Islam.
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I forget. Was it you that said we shouldn't judge people as groups? It might have been someone else.
Yep it was me..I think.. I don't place gays in the same category as Muslims just as I don't place a Golden Retriever n the same category as a wild wolf.
@DiogenesLamp
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The HS Adm says they had no idea this was going on until the letter came. No students had come forward to complain to the Principal or staff.
Yeah right! CYA time my friends CYA
It is possible they didn't. Not only would they be branded "haters" and sent for 'counseling', but there very well could be direct repercussions as well (by the teachers or school administration).
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@driftdiver
@Freya
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon
@txradioguy
@roamer_1
That father isn't going to let this die. He will be at the board meeting.
They need to pack the room, and distribute themselves around it if in low numbers in groups of 2-3. The scattering of people of like mind in the room makes it look like even more people agree, even if the GBLT set packs the room.
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I forget. Was it you that said we shouldn't judge people as groups? It might have been someone else.
I'm with you on the Muslims. They are a threat, and the sooner people realize they are a threat, the sooner steps can be taken to address the problem.
I think the Islamic religion is simply incompatible with Western civilization. It has a very different set of principles and a very different foundational basis.
We can't have tolerance or equality with Islam.
I live in Irving, home to two Islamic "centers". It's also the former home of Clock Boy.
IMHO, the Muslims in North Texas mostly seek to avoid publicity. Texans are a welcoming lot, i.e. live and let live. I think they also know their mosques would be smoking rubble within 24 hours if a full fledged Islamic terrorist attack occurred on Texas soil.
And the lawsuits by Clock Boy's dad were summarily dismissed.
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It's not about something else. The issue is homosexuality and the homosexual agenda being promoted, insisted and championed as virtue while denouncing biblical Christians who are in the presence of those pushing homosexuality. It's the same argument - just different venues and instances of how it is being pushed by activists and acolytes.
Sorry if I insulted you. I shouldn't have made that suggestion.
But I think you're blaming the wrong people. It's the liberal judges and the ACLU who side with the activist gays on these matters. It's not as though the gays who bring the lawsuits are being deprived of a service. They could get the cakes or whatever dozens of other places. The lawsuits are targeting people's religious beliefs but I blame the courts and the ACLU.
Otherwise, those lawsuits would be laughed out of town.
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I live in Irving, home to two Islamic "centers". It's also the former home of Clock Boy.
IMHO, the Muslims in North Texas mostly seek to avoid publicity. Texans are a welcoming lot, i.e. live and let live. I think they also know their mosques would be smoking rubble within 24 hours if a full fledged Islamic terrorist attack occurred on Texas soil.
And the lawsuits by Clock Boy's dad were summarily dismissed.
I lived in Irving for a very long time. For some reason, Irving... a town which in the fifties did not even have a single Black in the city limits and very few Mexicans .... for some reason Irving has become the multi-cultural capital of the world. You might as well be in New York.
Why a city the size of Irving has two huge mosques should make you wonder. Even if the mosques are keeping a low profile, they are planning things. Why do you think Clock Boy's dad made the attempt to make trouble. I don't trust them for one minute.
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But I think you're blaming the wrong people. It's the liberal judges and the ACLU who side with the activist gays on these matters. It's not as though the gays who bring the lawsuits are being deprived of a service. They could get the cakes or whatever dozens of other places. The lawsuits are targeting people's religious beliefs but I blame the courts and the ACLU.
Who is BRINGING the lawsuits? Are the liberal judges BRINGING the lawsuits?
I had a homo activist two decades ago tell me that he loved idiotic Christians who would hold candlelight vigils and hold hands in prayer circles. He said because while we are busy doing that and thinking we are making a difference - they were leaping over us to have their lifestyles and behaviors crammed down our throats by the courts and the government. He said they will have their way with us, and use the courts and government to do it. "Legalized rape if you like - so learn to lay back and enjoy it".
Like every single other agenda item of the left, the Homosexual agenda is not about establishing equality as they claim, but dominating and establishing itself by force as THE prominent rule all must acquiesce to.
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Who is BRINGING the lawsuits? Are the liberal judges BRINGING the lawsuits?
I had a homo activist two decades ago tell me that he loved idiotic Christians who would hold candlelight vigils and hold hands in prayer circles. He said because while we are busy doing that and thinking we are making a difference - they were leaping over us to have their lifestyles and behaviors crammed down our throats by the courts and the government. He said they will have their way with us, and use the courts and government to do it. "Legalized rape if you like - so learn to lay back and enjoy it".
Like every single other agenda item of the left, the Homosexual agenda is not about establishing equality as they claim, but dominating and establishing itself by force as THE prominent rule all must acquiesce to.
Well, I don't agree with you. Gays are a small percentage of the population and activists gays who promote hate are a small percent of that percent.
Yes, it is gays who bring the lawsuits but they only do it with the encouragement and support of the ACLU and liberal judges.
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Well, I don't agree with you. Gays are a small percentage of the population and activists gays who promote hate are a small percent of that percent.
Yes, it is gays who bring the lawsuits but they only do it with the encouragement and support of the ACLU and liberal judges.
If this is such a small percent of such a small percent, how is it that they are not seeking "equality" but using the courts to punish (and don't tell me being fined and losing your business isn't punishment) people who do not agree with them?
Without these activists seeking test cases to build precedent, the lawyers would not have a trough to feed at and they would chase other ambulances.
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Well, I don't agree with you. Gays are a small percentage of the population and activists gays who promote hate are a small percent of that percent.
Yes, it is gays who bring the lawsuits but they only do it with the encouragement and support of the ACLU and liberal judges.
Yes, the LGTB group is a small percentage, but yet they have managed to 'control' the majority and indeed they have brought the lawsuits which they pushed all the way to the SCOTUS. I would have to agree "like every single other agenda item of the left, the Homosexual agenda is not about establishing equality as they claim, but dominating and establishing itself by force as THE prominent rule all must acquiesce to."
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If this is such a small percent of such a small percent, how is it that they are not seeking "equality" but using the courts to punish (and don't tell me being fined and losing your business isn't punishment) people who do not agree with them?
Without these activists seeking test cases to build precedent, the lawyers would not have a trough to feed at and they would chase other ambulances.
That's a chicken or the egg question. The gays who brought suits had reason to believe they would win per ACLU support and liberal judges.
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That's a chicken or the egg question. The gays who brought suits had reason to believe they would win per ACLU support and liberal judges.
I strongly suspect in the era of 'community organizing' that the leaders of that movement were coached as to just what would make a good test case, and what sort of situations to either look for or create so those lawsuits could be propagated.
In the end, no matter who wins or loses, the attorneys will be paid, whether they are for the plaintiff, the defendant, or behind the bench.
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I strongly suspect in the era of 'community organizing' that the leaders of that movement were coached as to just what would make a good test case, and what sort of situations to either look for or create so those lawsuits could be propagated.
In the end, no matter who wins or loses, the attorneys will be paid, whether they are for the plaintiff, the defendant, or behind the bench.
Yep. Only reason these suits are brought. How about a little tort reform while we're at it.
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But we are being told, right now, on this very board - that homosexual marriages and relationships are virtuous and pose absolutely no threat whatsoever to anyone.
This has NOTHING to do with gay marriage.
This is an idiot trying to impose their personal political activism on children. Its unconscionable, and would be unconscionable if a Christian teacher was putting sticker crosses on children's notebooks. Teachers have no business indoctrinating, moralizing, or even demonstrating their own political perspectives...they are there to teach reading, writing mathematics and the art of thinking. If people want to have after school Christian or LGBT clubs...purely voluntary...have at it. During the regular school day...they should keep their big mouths shut and their egos in check.
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This has NOTHING to do with gay marriage.
This is an idiot trying to impose their personal political activism on children. Its unconscionable, and would be unconscionable if a Christian teacher was putting sticker crosses on children's notebooks. Teachers have no business indoctrinating, moralizing, or even demonstrating their own political perspectives...they are there to teach reading, writing mathematics and the art of thinking. If people want to have after school Christian or LGBT clubs...purely voluntary...have at it. During the regular school day...they should keep their big mouths shut and their egos in check.
I see it a little different. Back when we said The Lord's Prayer at the start of the school day, along with The Pledge of Allegiance, (one nation, under God--and you know which one we meant), there were no people telling children they could not wear religious articles, a rainbow was just something you saw after a storm, refracted light, (unless you knew about Him setting his bow in the heavens as a sign the world would never again be destroyed by water), and homosexuality was something the adults spoke of in low tones when the kids weren't in the room, if at all. First the prayer went, by the ruling of a few. Then the Pledge, because it mentioned "God". Then some folks wanted "equality", then they wanted to be "married", now they are demanding the removal of personal religious adornments.
I can certainly see a progression.
Is this woman afraid she will burst into flame if she looks at it too long? Does it interfere with checking out the nubile and developing swell of pubescent breasts? What's her beef?
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I see it a little different. Back when we said The Lord's Prayer at the start of the school day, along with The Pledge of Allegiance, (one nation, under God--and you know which one we meant), there were no people telling children they could not wear religious articles, a rainbow was just something you saw after a storm, refracted light, (unless you knew about Him setting his bow in the heavens as a sign the world would never again be destroyed by water), and homosexuality was something the adults spoke of in low tones when the kids weren't in the room, if at all. First the prayer went, by the ruling of a few. Then the Pledge, because it mentioned "God". Then some folks wanted "equality", then they wanted to be "married", now they are demanding the removal of personal religious adornments.
I can certainly see a progression.
Is this woman afraid she will burst into flame if she looks at it too long? Does it interfere with checking out the nubile and developing swell of pubescent breasts? What's her beef?
Well, I think you are drawing connections that aren't...well...connected. The schools in this country did just fine before the pledge of allegiance, and the use of "under God" only came along after 1954...so it doesn't really fit as part of a declining moral environment in schools. That said, I am all for the pledge of allegiance in schools...perhaps in its original form pre-1954. I am also for gay marriage...because the Libertarian in me believes marriage should not be subject to regulation OR endorsement by the government. But I also find it ludicrous to demand removal of people's personal religious items. These things are not mutually exclusive of one another. A free society allows people to marry whom they will AND to where whatever religious adornments they wish.
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@mirraflake
Lesbians always wear mens style of jacket like Sally Kohn on CNN. The one on the right proves my theory that gays get a wrong dose of hormones while in the womb. No all day gig at Macy's Glamour shots would make that woman look like a woman.
Doesn't explain women like my friend's sister. She's beautiful and feminine, but she got fed up with men and decided it was time to go gay. There are lots like that.
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@driftdiver
@Freya
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon
@txradioguy
@roamer_1
I had not read that thread, so I've now read some on there. Some said we should stay out of marriages, it is not our business what two adult people do. I agree with that. However, it IS our business what schools do with our children. "Gays" can do whatever they want, it is not my business. However, "gays" have united to force their lifestyle into our schools - that IS my business.
A family related member living in Ohio, is a junior in high school, and last week, was LGBT observance week, and she was forced to hear about that lifestyle, and there was a film shown over and over on the main wall as one comes into the school, every day it is shown over and over, in that school with various LGBT sayings and one was about religion, said something like this, "Any religion in the world is the same with the same outcome." That means the Muslim religion, ANY religion is the same as a Christian religion, all have the same outcome.
When she told her father (they are a religious family) what was happening, the first day this started last week, he met with the principal who was a wimp, but said he should have notified parents in advance, and then the father met with the Superintendent, who did not know this was happening. He said the first thing the Superintendent said to him was, "You need to know I am a conservative, I have my guns at my house, I am one of you. I am going to go meet with that principal as soon as you leave here." He also told him to write a letter to the school board, gave him the name of the president, and said it would be brought up at the next meeting and he would tell him when that was going to happen.
That father isn't going to let this die. He will be at the board meeting.
@Victoria33
Good grief! An actual conservative superintendent in a public school. Well, good for him, and good for the dad.
I can tell you right now, if I had a child in this teacher's class (the one in the article), I would be right up in that classroom instructing her on how things were going to be, and that would include my child wearing a cross if she/he desired to do so. There would be no argument and she would learn she had no say in the matter.
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@Victoria33
Good grief! An actual conservative superintendent in a public school. Well, good for him, and good for the dad.
I can tell you right now, if I had a child in this teacher's class (the one in the article), I would be right up in that classroom instructing her on how things were going to be, and that would include my child wearing a cross if she/he desired to do so. There would be no argument and she would learn she had no say in the matter.
It wasn't so long ago that religion was accepted and even invited into the schools. In the 1980s it wasn't uncommon for us to go across the road to the church when we had a combined class too large for a classroom. The church sometimes borrowed classrooms for youth events. We even had an elective class on theology taught by the minister. When I was in elementary school, Mr Goodman would come to school with his felt board and his cutout biblical figures and tell us bible stories.
All of that was nearly gone by the time they started telling us that "All normal boys have homosexual thoughts and feelings."
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Well, I think you are drawing connections that aren't...well...connected. The schools in this country did just fine before the pledge of allegiance, and the use of "under God" only came along after 1954...so it doesn't really fit as part of a declining moral environment in schools. That said, I am all for the pledge of allegiance in schools...perhaps in its original form pre-1954. I am also for gay marriage...because the Libertarian in me believes marriage should not be subject to regulation OR endorsement by the government. But I also find it ludicrous to demand removal of people's personal religious items. These things are not mutually exclusive of one another. A free society allows people to marry whom they will AND to where whatever religious adornments they wish.
Well, thank you for the date things peaked and then started going the wrong way.
Unfortunately for the Libertarian in you, it is the Government which is imposing "gay marriage" on everyone who really doesn't want it, is offended by the degradation of a holy sacrament by Government intervention, or even just did not care.
That isn't Libertarian, unless you consider overturning thousands of years of precedent by Government decree "Libertarian", because it is Government intervening in a religious matter.
We do agree that people should be left to wear articles of their religious faith as they choose.
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Well, thank you for the date things peaked and then started going the wrong way.
Unfortunately for the Libertarian in you, it is the Government which is imposing "gay marriage" on everyone who really doesn't want it, is offended by the degradation of a holy sacrament by Government intervention, or even just did not care.
That isn't Libertarian, unless you consider overturning thousands of years of precedent by Government decree "Libertarian", because it is Government intervening in a religious matter.
We do agree that people should be left to wear articles of their religious faith as they choose.
Our township hall in 1911 was doing triple duty as a township meeting place, a church, and a school.
(http://i.imgur.com/OvtnLGy.png)
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Well, thank you for the date things peaked and then started going the wrong way.
Unfortunately for the Libertarian in you, it is the Government which is imposing "gay marriage" on everyone who really doesn't want it, is offended by the degradation of a holy sacrament by Government intervention, or even just did not care.
That isn't Libertarian, unless you consider overturning thousands of years of precedent by Government decree "Libertarian", because it is Government intervening in a religious matter.
We do agree that people should be left to wear articles of their religious faith as they choose.
I don't think the government should impose anything...and I stridently oppose them doing so on the topic of gay marriage. What I believe, is that government should have nothing to say and maintain no tax, social or other involvement in the institution of marriage. Marriage should be strictly a church/religious affair...and each church can decide who they do and don't want to marry...leave government out of it.
As for bathrooms....one for penises and one for vaginas, don't care about anyone's sexual preferences or what gender they identify with. Solved.
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I don't think the government should impose anything...and I stridently oppose them doing so on the topic of gay marriage. What I believe, is that government should have nothing to say and maintain no tax, social or other involvement in the institution of marriage. Marriage should be strictly a church/religious affair...and each church can decide who they do and don't want to marry...leave government out of it.
Exactly.
As for bathrooms....one for penises and one for vaginas, don't care about anyone's sexual preferences or what gender they identify with. Solved.
THis.
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It wasn't so long ago that religion was accepted and even invited into the schools. In the 1980s it wasn't uncommon for us to go across the road to the church when we had a combined class too large for a classroom. The church sometimes borrowed classrooms for youth events. We even had an elective class on theology taught by the minister. When I was in elementary school, Mr Goodman would come to school with his felt board and his cutout biblical figures and tell us bible stories.
All of that was nearly gone by the time they started telling us that "All normal boys have homosexual thoughts and feelings."
@Cripplecreek
That last sentence made me literally LOL.
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Title:
"Florida Teacher Bans Cross Necklaces in Class..."
Unconstitutional on its face.
The wearing of the Cross falls within the right of free expression of religion.
What's the position of this teacher on students who wear muslim religious garb in class?
Do I even need to ask this?
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@mirraflake
Doesn't explain women like my friend's sister. She's beautiful and feminine, but she got fed up with men and decided it was time to go gay. There are lots like that.
Sometimes it happens after an abusive marriage. That was the case with my niece. This is women though. I wouldn't say this is the case with men.
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Sometimes it happens after an abusive marriage. That was the case with my niece. This is women though. I wouldn't say this is the case with men.
All men I know who have survived a bad marriage and divorce have gone forth with either a determination to not become entangled again or to find a better woman. The most successful in the latter took some time off to figure out who had done what wrong. The least successful remarried within a year, and often that too ended in failure, having married essentially the same 'type' and learned nothing.
I have observed predatory lesbians watching couples in distress and looking for an opening. In a small town everyone knows who left with who, and it doesn't take much to put together what likely happened. From there, trust is done. With plenty of hurt and man-hate to go around nowadays, those who buy in just keep going.
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Sometimes it happens after an abusive marriage. That was the case with my niece. This is women though. I wouldn't say this is the case with men.
@Emjay
I can't say.
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@Emjay
I can't say.
Judging from my sister's ex I would say that men who leave a straight marriage and then go to men were gay to begin with. He was always feminine anyway.
However now my nephew now tells some of what was going on out of the sight of the rest of us. My sister's ex was my nephew's stepfather and some animosity there would be natural but my nephew recently told me that his stepfather had been hitting on his male friends for a long time.
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Judging from my sister's ex I would say that men who leave a straight marriage and then go to men were gay to begin with. He was always feminine anyway.
However now my nephew now tells some of what was going on out of the sight of the rest of us. My sister's ex was my nephew's stepfather and some animosity there would be natural but my nephew recently told me that his stepfather had been hitting on his male friends for a long time.
I agree. A lot of gay men enter into conventional marriages for various reasons. Some as a cover in society and others because they think/hope they can live a straight life.
This never works if they are gay and is further proof to me that being gay is biological and not choice. Why would anyone choose a sexual orientation with so much pain and negativity connected with it.
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Judging from my sister's ex I would say that men who leave a straight marriage and then go to men were gay to begin with. He was always feminine anyway.
However now my nephew now tells some of what was going on out of the sight of the rest of us. My sister's ex was my nephew's stepfather and some animosity there would be natural but my nephew recently told me that his stepfather had been hitting on his male friends for a long time.
I've heard stories like that, of men marrying to try and stifle "other" impulses.
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I've heard stories like that, of men marrying to try and stifle "other" impulses.
Now that he's come out as gay he's declaring that everybody is oppressing him.
Says he was fired from his job for being gay but the owner says its because he was trying to screw her 15 year old son.
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Now that he's come out as gay he's declaring that everybody is oppressing him.
Says he was fired from his job for being gay but the owner says its because he was trying to screw her 15 year old son.
The link between gay men and pedophilia is so well known that it is actually a cliche. I think pedophilia in gay men is partially based on their urge to reproduce. Since they can't have children, the only way for them to perpetuate their species is to recruit. And consciously or subconsciously they know that if they can influence young children, it will likely stay with them for life. It's homosexual reproduction. That's my theory anyway.
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I agree. A lot of gay men enter into conventional marriages for various reasons. Some as a cover in society and others because they think/hope they can live a straight life.
This never works if they are gay and is further proof to me that being gay is biological and not choice. Why would anyone choose a sexual orientation with so much pain and negativity connected with it.
I don't think many of them choose their 'orientation.' I think that most of them have psychological scars from dysfunctional homes, or abusive or absent fathers that mess them up and keep them from normality. I also believe there are those who actually decide on the decadent lifestyle that most homosexuals lead.
But what they all DO choose is their behavior. As in any other sin, the choice to behave badly is avoidable.
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I don't think many of them choose their 'orientation.' I think that most of them have psychological scars from dysfunctional homes, or abusive or absent fathers that mess them up and keep them from normality. I also believe there are those who actually decide on the decadent lifestyle that most homosexuals lead.
But what they all DO choose is their behavior. As in any other sin, the choice to behave badly is avoidable.
:amen:
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But what they all DO choose is their behavior. As in any other sin, the choice to behave badly is avoidable.
A gay friend tells me that my former brother in law is out of control and will end up dead or in prison.
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Now that he's come out as gay he's declaring that everybody is oppressing him.
Says he was fired from his job for being gay but the owner says its because he was trying to screw her 15 year old son.
@Cripplecreek
Nice.
It's that way with my friend's sister. She demands that everyone accept her and her butch girlfriend, and invite them to every family gathering, or be deprived of her presence in their lives. She behaves like a tyrant.
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The link between gay men and pedophilia is so well known that it is actually a cliche. I think pedophilia in gay men is partially based on their urge to reproduce. Since they can't have children, the only way for them to perpetuate their species is to recruit. And consciously or subconsciously they know that if they can influence young children, it will likely stay with them for life. It's homosexual reproduction. That's my theory anyway.
After promising myself I would never, never comment on a 'gay' thread again, here I am.
Most scientific studies find no link between homosexuality and pedophilia. Two entirely different things.
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After promising myself I would never, never comment on a 'gay' thread again, here I am.
Most scientific studies find no link between homosexuality and pedophilia. Two entirely different things.
Good god man, don't throw scientific evidence out there...you'll disrupt the whole conversation!
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Good god man, don't throw scientific evidence out there...you'll disrupt the whole conversation!
I know, I know.
P.S. Not a man
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I don't think many of them choose their 'orientation.' I think that most of them have psychological scars from dysfunctional homes, or abusive or absent fathers that mess them up and keep them from normality. I also believe there are those who actually decide on the decadent lifestyle that most homosexuals lead.
But what they all DO choose is their behavior. As in any other sin, the choice to behave badly is avoidable.
My wife and I know 4 gay men very well. Blood cousins, marriage related or close friends.
Non were ever abused and came from model homes, religious homes with loving parents
My wife's cousin came over to her house every Sunday back in the day when they were kids and she new he was "different" back then.
My SIL brother is gay and also came from model home..loving dad etc.Dad and son are real close to this day.
My wife told me 10 years ago my SIL son(my nephew) is gay at age 10 . He acted 100% the same way as her cousin did at that age. You just know.
We just spent some time with them recently and he is now 20 and we are both 100% percent convinced he is gay but just has not come out yet.
My cousin I thought was gay. During family get togethers he would bake cookies and such while all of us boys watched football. He would sew clothes etc He did get married which surprised me but it ended in divorce 7-8 years later and he never remarried. My wife and I both think he is gay but never came out because he did not want to hurt his deeply religious parents
I am 100% convinced it is something that happens in the womb during gestation for most gays. Not to say some are abused or some just want that lifestyle. I beleive some women are born gay but many are form abused relationships.
@musiclady
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Good god man, don't throw scientific evidence out there...you'll disrupt the whole conversation!
You mean the same science that gives us "Climate Change"???? THAT science??
Science is only science if there is no agenda attached to it. If you're looking for evidence that you want to be there, it ain't science.
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My wife and I know 4 gay men very well. Blood cousins, marriage related or close friends.
Non were ever abused and came from model homes, religious homes with loving parents
My wife's cousin came over to her house every Sunday back in the day when they were kids and she new he was "different" back then.
My SIL brother is gay and also came from model home..loving dad etc.Dad and son are real close to this day.
My wife told me 10 years ago my SIL son(my nephew) is gay at age 10 . He acted 100% the same way as her cousin did at that age. You just know.
We just spent some time with them recently and he is now 20 and we are both 100% percent convinced he is gay but just has not come out yet.
My cousin I thought was gay. During family get togethers he would bake cookies and such while all of us boys watched football. He would sew clothes etc He did get married which surprised me but it ended in divorce 7-8 years later and he never remarried. My wife and I both think he is gay but never came out because he did not want to hurt his deeply religious parents
I am 100% convinced it is something that happens in the womb during gestation for most gays. Not to say some are abused or some just want that lifestyle. I beleive some women are born gay but many are form abused relationships.
@musiclady
I totally agree with you. I have a wide range of acquaintances who are gay and most of them came from normal families and had siblings who were straight.
Only God knows why this happens and I'm not about to question Him.
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You mean the same science that gives us "Climate Change"???? THAT science??
Science is only science if there is no agenda attached to it. If you're looking for evidence that you want to be there, it ain't science.
Of course science is not infallible. But that's no reason to ignore it altogether ... unless you want to for some reason.
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You mean the same science that gives us "Climate Change"???? THAT science??
Science is only science if there is no agenda attached to it. If you're looking for evidence that you want to be there, it ain't science.
Yes indeed. In the 70s scientific studies told us that we were heading toward a new ice-age. Scientists told us that we would run out of oil and gas by 2000. Al Gore and his science told us that there would be no snowfall by 2015.
Also, these gay studies mix gay men and gay women, which dilutes the results. I am talking specifically about gay men, not gay people in general. And whenever there are gay men with access to little boys, they tend to try to take advantage. Those gay priests, gay teachers, gay coaches, etc. don't have sex with each other. They don't go after other men involved in the situation. Instead, they all focus on little boys. I guess they are attracted to the innocence and lack of disease of youth. Whatever the reason, the fact that gay men love little boys is legendary. And no 'study' is ever going to change that fact.
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You mean the same science that gives us "Climate Change"???? THAT science??
Science is only science if there is no agenda attached to it. If you're looking for evidence that you want to be there, it ain't science.
The climate is changing getting warmer. I believe man has some to do with it to a degree but mostly sun or natural phenomenon.
Ask any farmer who has been planting more than 40 years.
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Also, these gay studies mix gay men and gay women, which dilutes the results. I am talking specifically about gay men, not gay people in general. And whenever there are gay men with access to little boys, they tend to try to take advantage. Those gay priests, gay teachers, gay coaches, etc. don't have sex with each other. They don't go after other men involved in the situation. Instead, they all focus on little boys. I guess they are attracted to the innocence and lack of disease of youth. Whatever the reason, the fact that gay men love little boys is legendary. And no 'study' is ever going to change that fact.
I read the Daily Mail which is infatuated with teacher-pupil relationships and rarely does a week go by there is not one posted.
Rarely do you see same sex teacher pupil. It's mostly female teacher -male student or male teacher -female student.
@240B
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Of course science is not infallible. But that's no reason to ignore it altogether ... unless you want to for some reason.
The gay gene myth was pro-homo propaganda, remember? now the lack of one is being used to support their same agenda? funny.
NAMBLA has been part of the gay movement since it first appeared, it was front and center at their first marches.
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Of course science is not infallible. But that's no reason to ignore it altogether ... unless you want to for some reason.
There is no scientific proof that people are born homosexual. The agenda is on the side of the left, not mine.
What the left always does is throw out a theory, write about it as though it's fact, discuss it as though it's fact, and eventually people believe what they're told to believe.
There never has been genetic proof that people are "born that way."
So you're not talking about science. You're talking about what leftists want you to believe is science.
It happens ALL the time.
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The gay gene myth was pro-homo propaganda, remember? now the lack of one is being used to support their same agenda? funny.
NAMBLA has been part of the gay movement since it first appeared, it was front and center at their first marches.
Extremists have been behind the propaganda, and eventually the gullible believe it.
They are beginning with pedophilia, and soon the gullible will believe that people are just "born that way" and we shouldn't interfere with "science."
All it takes is the skill of observation over a few decades to see clearly what has and is still happening.
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Extremists have been behind the propaganda, and eventually the gullible believe it.
They are beginning with pedophilia, and soon the gullible will believe that people are just "born that way" and we shouldn't interfere with "science."
All it takes is the skill of observation over a few decades to see clearly what has and is still happening.
Homosexuality was once categorized as a mental illness or mental disease. I believe due to political correctness many psychiatrists and the medical community in general have retracted their studies and theories. Gay rights groups proclaim that homosexuals are as “normal” as heterosexuals, I question, how can that logically possibly be when that behavior isn't the norm?
..." Dr. Stanton L. Jones, professor of psychology at Wheaton College, states that there is a “mixed scorecard” among professionals on this. He writes: “I would not regard homosexuality to be a psychopathology in the same sense as schizophrenia or phobic disorders. But neither can it be viewed as a normal ‘lifestyle variation’ on a par with being introverted versus extroverted.” One may debate whether or not homosexuality is a pathological disorder, but it is clear that the APA’s 1973 decision cannot be cited as medical consensus that homosexuality is a “normal” condition. ....
http://www.equip.org/article/is-homosexuality-an-illness/
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My wife and I know 4 gay men very well. Blood cousins, marriage related or close friends.
Non were ever abused and came from model homes, religious homes with loving parents
My wife's cousin came over to her house every Sunday back in the day when they were kids and she new he was "different" back then.
My SIL brother is gay and also came from model home..loving dad etc.Dad and son are real close to this day.
My wife told me 10 years ago my SIL son(my nephew) is gay at age 10 . He acted 100% the same way as her cousin did at that age. You just know.
We just spent some time with them recently and he is now 20 and we are both 100% percent convinced he is gay but just has not come out yet.
My cousin I thought was gay. During family get togethers he would bake cookies and such while all of us boys watched football. He would sew clothes etc He did get married which surprised me but it ended in divorce 7-8 years later and he never remarried. My wife and I both think he is gay but never came out because he did not want to hurt his deeply religious parents
I am 100% convinced it is something that happens in the womb during gestation for most gays. Not to say some are abused or some just want that lifestyle. I beleive some women are born gay but many are form abused relationships.
@musiclady
I think you are correct.
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Yes indeed. In the 70s scientific studies told us that we were heading toward a new ice-age. Scientists told us that we would run out of oil and gas by 2000. Al Gore and his science told us that there would be no snowfall by 2015.
Also, these gay studies mix gay men and gay women, which dilutes the results. I am talking specifically about gay men, not gay people in general. And whenever there are gay men with access to little boys, they tend to try to take advantage. Those gay priests, gay teachers, gay coaches, etc. don't have sex with each other. They don't go after other men involved in the situation. Instead, they all focus on little boys. I guess they are attracted to the innocence and lack of disease of youth. Whatever the reason, the fact that gay men love little boys is legendary. And no 'study' is ever going to change that fact.
I have only read a couple of studies and I find your comment about gay men having access to little boys troublesome. I don't doubt what you are saying, but if indeed gay men tend to prey upon little boys; then it is psychotic behavior; thus, getting back to the point that homosexuality is a type of mental disorder; certainly not normal behavior.
Whether it be an imbalance that happens in the womb or as a result of life situations; nonetheless, the behavior is not normal. So..why should we give this very small minority group of people equal rights especially in our bathrooms?
As for Albert Gore ... he's coming out with a sequel to an "Inconvenient Truth". We had to sit and watch the trailer at the theater and it seems to target Trump. I can't believe people are still that stupid to believe in climate change! Al must be running out of money or gearing up to run in 2020.
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Homosexuality was once categorized as a mental illness or mental disease.
Epilepsy was once categorized as demonic possession. Addiction was once categorized as human weakness. Categories can change.
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Epilepsy was once categorized as demonic possession. Addiction was once categorized as human weakness. Categories can change.
Which means what exactly? It seems to me that there is a push to 'categorize' homosexuality as a normal behavior. IMHO society is evolving into a politically correct arena where everything goes because the minority has taken the liberty to desensitize the majority. As an example same sex marriage and inter-racial marriage is becoming more acceptable as well as living together in lieu of marriage or having children out of wedlock. I personally see all of this political correctness as a breakdown of traditional family values, morality and Christian values in our society.
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What's the school dress code say?
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Which means what exactly? It seems to me that there is a push to 'categorize' homosexuality as a normal behavior. IMHO society is evolving into a politically correct arena where everything goes because the minority has taken the liberty to desensitize the majority. As an example same sex marriage and inter-racial marriage is becoming more acceptable as well as living together in lieu of marriage or having children out of wedlock. I personally see all of this political correctness as a breakdown of traditional family values, morality and Christian values in our society.
Are you against interracial marriage because it sure appears you think it is wrong.
@libertybele
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The climate is changing getting warmer. I believe man has some to do with it to a degree but mostly sun or natural phenomenon.
Ask any farmer who has been planting more than 40 years.
Climate has always changed--it is part of a dynamic system.
How much humans influence that is the question, and I honestly believe that is one of those numbers so small it really doesn't factor into the big picture.
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I read the Daily Mail which is infatuated with teacher-pupil relationships and rarely does a week go by there is not one posted.
Rarely do you see same sex teacher pupil. It's mostly female teacher -male student or male teacher -female student.
@240B
The male teacher female student and female teacher male student ones get headlines. The other situations are out there, and don't get the airtime and media play from the MSM the heterosexual cases do. Considering that gays make up 2% of the population, one would expect the same sex cases would be around the same percentage of sexual exploitation between a teacher/coach and students. While there may be a reporting bias, I think the number is somewhat more than that.
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I think you are correct.
One thing I learned years ago from a dear friend in children's services, is that you can't know what's going on inside a family from what things seem to be to outsiders. The families that seem to be "functional" may just be hiding abuse, and it's certainly not something they reveal at family picnics or Thanksgiving dinners.
At any rate, mirraflake's examples are all anecdotal, and the fact of the matter is that there is no scientific proof for homosexuality's being genetic.
Some things are genetic, such as sensitivity, greater need for affection, etc. that actually are characteristics present at birth that may affect which boys (and girls) are more susceptible to the abuse or emotional neglect by their parents.
Another factor is abuse from outside. There are babysitters who abuse children, teachers, other relatives, etc., who may have been factors in turning these people away from normality to illness.
IOW, mirraflake's few examples just back up his own bias and don't prove a thing.
@Sanguine
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The male teacher female student and female teacher male student ones get headlines. The other situations are out there, and don't get the airtime and media play from the MSM the heterosexual cases do. Considering that gays make up 2% of the population, one would expect the same sex cases would be around the same percentage of sexual exploitation between a teacher/coach and students. While there may be a reporting bias, I think the number is somewhat more than that.
When homosexual abuse by teachers is too great to cover up, the press is forced to cover it, but never addresses the same sex aspect of it. You could have read every word of the Jerry Sandusky abuse case in the media, and never have seen it mentioned that the predator was a homosexual. It was obvious, of course, but the press never touched it.
@Smokin Joe
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One thing I learned years ago from a dear friend in children's services, is that you can't know what's going on inside a family from what things seem to be to outsiders. The families that seem to be "functional" may just be hiding abuse, and it's certainly not something they reveal at family picnics or Thanksgiving dinners.
At any rate, mirraflake's examples are all anecdotal, and the fact of the matter is that there is no scientific proof for homosexuality's being genetic.
Some things are genetic, such as sensitivity, greater need for affection, etc. that actually are characteristics present at birth that may affect which boys (and girls) are more susceptible to the abuse or emotional neglect by their parents.
Another factor is abuse from outside. There are babysitters who abuse children, teachers, other relatives, etc., who may have been factors in turning these people away from normality to illness.
IOW, mirraflake's few examples just back up his own bias and don't prove a thing.
@Sanguine
No, I didn't say it was genetic - I believe much male homosexuality to be caused by factors in utero. Which may be influenced by genetic factors. There is quite a bit of evidence for both of those points. Does that mean it is settled science, one way or the other? No, that's not how science works (slamming "climate experts" here).
And, the idea that no one has discovered a definitive genetic cause doesn't mean one isn't there; just means one - or many - haven't been discovered yet.
And, yes, @mirraflake was using anecdotal evidence to back up his understanding and did so quite well I thought.
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One thing I learned years ago from a dear friend in children's services, is that you can't know what's going on inside a family from what things seem to be to outsiders. The families that seem to be "functional" may just be hiding abuse, and it's certainly not something they reveal at family picnics or Thanksgiving dinners.
At any rate, mirraflake's examples are all anecdotal, and the fact of the matter is that there is no scientific proof for homosexuality's being genetic.
Some things are genetic, such as sensitivity, greater need for affection, etc. that actually are characteristics present at birth that may affect which boys (and girls) are more susceptible to the abuse or emotional neglect by their parents.
Another factor is abuse from outside. There are babysitters who abuse children, teachers, other relatives, etc., who may have been factors in turning these people away from normality to illness.
@Sanguine
Who is talking genetics? I'm talking hormonal mixup in the womb or early childhood. Too much or too little or wrong amount.
Scientist still can't figure out female sex drive. Why do two women, both healthy and fit, same age, no physical problems, no abuse, no metal issues, one has absolute zero sex drive and one has healthy sex drive?
Oh and the cases I gave you of gays I know. I know for a fact non were ever abused. They were all asked.
This lesbian woman is an example of what I am saying about hormonal mixup. I have seen plenty of non transgender people in real life who I cannot know for certain is male or female.
(http://thebutchclothingcompany.co.uk/newsite/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Shaz-of-the-Butch-Clothi-006.jpg)
(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/outward/2014/07/25/a_butch_lesbian_rejects_a_non_binary_identity/490958795-actress-lea-delaria-attends-the-orange-is-the-new-black.jpg.CROP.promo-medium2.jpg)
@musiclady
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Lesbian non transgendered woman. If I did not know she was a woman and I knew there was no transgendersim involved I would have a very difficult time knowing if this was a woman or man.
This woman clearly did not have enough estrogen in the womb or early development that makes a woman feminine.
@musiclady
@Sanguine
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Yd9JzKDQLvc/maxresdefault.jpg)
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@mirraflake, I feel compelled to add that I agree that homosexual behavior is clearly and unequivocally prohibited in the Bible, which, as a practicing Christian, is my guidebook and the Word of God.
As for God's reasons, I won't pretend to be wise enough to understand fully. I will say that our time on Earth is short and perhaps many of the things that seem so overwhelmingly important to us here will be revealed as not very important in the next stage of our being. And, many of the things that we think we have time for later or aren't terribly important were the things that should have been at the top of our priority lists.
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One thing I learned years ago from a dear friend in children's services, is that you can't know what's going on inside a family from what things seem to be to outsiders. The families that seem to be "functional" may just be hiding abuse, and it's certainly not something they reveal at family picnics or Thanksgiving dinners.
At any rate, mirraflake's examples are all anecdotal, and the fact of the matter is that there is no scientific proof for homosexuality's being genetic.
Some things are genetic, such as sensitivity, greater need for affection, etc. that actually are characteristics present at birth that may affect which boys (and girls) are more susceptible to the abuse or emotional neglect by their parents.
Another factor is abuse from outside. There are babysitters who abuse children, teachers, other relatives, etc., who may have been factors in turning these people away from normality to illness.
IOW, mirraflake's few examples just back up his own bias and don't prove a thing.
@Sanguine
People here who are determined to view homosexuality as evil, i.e. 'something they could not be if they would just try and be good people.'
Those people do not believe in scientific studies and they apparently don't believe in anecdotal evidence.
What they are sorely lacking is common sense.
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People here who are determined to view homosexuality as evil, i.e. 'something they could not be if they would just try and be good people.'
Those people do not believe in scientific studies and they apparently don't believe in anecdotal evidence.
What they are sorely lacking is common sense.
Quite wrong in every aspect, @Emjay.
Those of us who view homosexual behavior as evil are the ones not making up our own rules because it feels good.
It is not at all a lack of "common sense," rather it is an acknowledgement that there is an Authority beyond our own meager ability to understand, and believing that the message we have received from that Authority is infallible.
btw, the God we serve is the God who created all things, including science.
Where "science" differs from His word, it is the "science" that is in error, not the Holy and Perfect God.
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Quite wrong in every aspect, @Emjay.
Those of us who view homosexual behavior as evil are the ones not making up our own rules because it feels good.
It is not at all a lack of "common sense," rather it is an acknowledgement that there is an Authority beyond our own meager ability to understand, and believing that the message we have received from that Authority is infallible.
btw, the God we serve is the God who created all things, including science.
Where "science" differs from His word, it is the "science" that is in error, not the Holy and Perfect God.
It does not 'feel good' to be an outcast for much of society. I think there must be different 'gods' because my God tells us to forgive one another as He forgives us.
I should not have hopped back on this thread because it is depressing.
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No, I didn't say it was genetic - I believe much male homosexuality to be caused by factors in utero. Which may be influenced by genetic factors. There is quite a bit of evidence for both of those points. Does that mean it is settled science, one way or the other? No, that's not how science works (slamming "climate experts" here).
And, the idea that no one has discovered a definitive genetic cause doesn't mean one isn't there; just means one - or many - haven't been discovered yet.
And, yes, @mirraflake was using anecdotal evidence to back up his understanding and did so quite well I thought.
Even if he did it well, it is merely a few cases of which he is not privy to all of the information.
"Scientists" have been working very hard to prove their leftist agenda, and yet have failed. It is an effort to blame God (it's been done by liberals even on this board) for homosexuality, and for those who don't believe in God, an effort to prove that it is "normal" because it's inborn.
What IS inborn, in every single one of us, is a bent to sinning, and each of us need to work on NOT doing what is Scripturally forbidden. Not just homosexuality (which is in as bold letters as any sin is), but other forms of lust, lying, gossip, hatred, sinful anger, theft, selfishness, greed, and every other form of sin.
"For ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." Thankfully, we have a Savior, who took our sins on Himself, so that we don't have to be burdened with them. (I know you believe this, and it isn't intended as a sermon to you.... just a conclusion to my thoughts here).
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It does not 'feel good' to be an outcast for much of society. I think there must be different 'gods' because my God tells us to forgive one another as He forgives us.
I should not have hopped back on this thread because it is depressing.
There is no conflict between God's commandment to forgive others infinitely (70 times 7), as He forgives us, and His commandment to "go and sin no more" and all the laws that Jesus, Himself, made more restrictive (lust as sinful as adultery, hatred as sinful as murder).
Just because God commands us to forgive, doesn't mean He doesn't expect us to obey.
There is nothing mutually exclusive between recognizing what is sin and forgiveness for those sins.
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Even if he did it well, it is merely a few cases of which he is not privy to all of the information.
"Scientists" have been working very hard to prove their leftist agenda, and yet have failed. It is an effort to blame God (it's been done by liberals even on this board) for homosexuality, and for those who don't believe in God, an effort to prove that it is "normal" because it's inborn.
What IS inborn, in every single one of us, is a bent to sinning, and each of us need to work on NOT doing what is Scripturally forbidden. Not just homosexuality (which is in as bold letters as any sin is), but other forms of lust, lying, gossip, hatred, sinful anger, theft, selfishness, greed, and every other form of sin.
"For ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." Thankfully, we have a Savior, who took our sins on Himself, so that we don't have to be burdened with them. (I know you believe this, and it isn't intended as a sermon to you.... just a conclusion to my thoughts here).
Yes, scientists are human too and sometimes do things that are not scientific, such as twisting science to fit their ideology.
But, what difference does it make whether homosexuality is genetic, congenital or environmentally induced? If we genuinely accept that people with homosexual tendencies are children of God just as we are, what does it matter where the behavior comes from?
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Yes, scientists are human too and sometimes do things that are not scientific, such as twisting science to fit their ideology.
But, what difference does it make whether homosexuality is genetic, congenital or environmentally induced? If we genuinely accept that people with homosexual tendencies are children of God just as we are, what does it matter where the behavior comes from?
Apparently, it matters to some people. Please, God, let me never be tempted to come to this thread again.
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Yes, scientists are human too and sometimes do things that are not scientific, such as twisting science to fit their ideology.
But, what difference does it make whether homosexuality is genetic, congenital or environmentally induced? If we genuinely accept that people with homosexual tendencies are children of God just as we are, what does it matter where the behavior comes from?
That's a question that needs to be asked to the leftists who have had the apparent need to "prove" that it's just the way people are in order to normalize aberrant behavior and make it socially acceptable.
Until scientists tried to change what was understood by science and religion alike...... that homosexuality was, indeed, not "normal," we didn't have this issue.
It is the left who has made this a front and center issue. They're the ones who have tried to prove it matters where the behavior comes from.
And no one has ever tried to say that homosexuals weren't children of God, just as we are. As a matter of fact, it's been the Christians who have continued to make the point that they are sinners, just as we are. (I have made that point multiple times here). NO one has suggested that homosexuals be treated with anything but respect and love, as we are commanded to do with all other humans.
The problem is what this article is about, and what other threads have been about......... that the leftists, such as this teacher, is discriminating openly against Christians by banning Crosses, while promoting the leftist LGBT agenda. It is leftists who have forced homosexual "marriage" by changing the centuries old definition of marriage, and forced the states, by removing the rights given to them in the Constitution, to obey laws they had no right to enact.
The left is the problem here. Not those of us who are reacting AGAINST their activism.
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Yes, scientists are human too and sometimes do things that are not scientific, such as twisting science to fit their ideology.
But, what difference does it make whether homosexuality is genetic, congenital or environmentally induced? If we genuinely accept that people with homosexual tendencies are children of God just as we are, what does it matter where the behavior comes from?
I'd just like to know why seemingly everyone thinks the cause is one thing or another. As if there can only be ONE cause for the desire.
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That's a question that needs to be asked to the leftists who have had the apparent need to "prove" that it's just the way people are in order to normalize aberrant behavior and make it socially acceptable.
Until scientists tried to change what was understood by science and religion alike...... that homosexuality was, indeed, not "normal," we didn't have this issue.
It is the left who has made this a front and center issue. They're the ones who have tried to prove it matters where the behavior comes from.
And no one has ever tried to say that homosexuals weren't children of God, just as we are. As a matter of fact, it's been the Christians who have continued to make the point that they are sinners, just as we are. (I have made that point multiple times here). NO one has suggested that homosexuals be treated with anything but respect and love, as we are commanded to do with all other humans.
The problem is what this article is about, and what other threads have been about......... that the leftists, such as this teacher, is discriminating openly against Christians by banning Crosses, while promoting the leftist LGBT agenda. It is leftists who have forced homosexual "marriage" by changing the centuries old definition of marriage, and forced the states, by removing the rights given to them in the Constitution, to obey laws they had no right to enact.
The left is the problem here. Not those of us who are reacting AGAINST their activism.
I think that's wrong, @musiclady. I think some of us on the right can be every bit as wrong - in the other direction of course.
And, yes, I had totally forgotten what this article was about and was just talking about our fellow humans.
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One thing I learned years ago from a dear friend in children's services, is that you can't know what's going on inside a family from what things seem to be to outsiders. The families that seem to be "functional" may just be hiding abuse, and it's certainly not something they reveal at family picnics or Thanksgiving dinners.
At any rate, mirraflake's examples are all anecdotal, and the fact of the matter is that there is no scientific proof for homosexuality's being genetic.
@Sanguine
@musiclady
Do you really want to go down this road?
I recall a certain conversation with you when I said wives do not know if their husbands watch porn or not and there is a reason computers have browsing history delete and you said Godly husbands don't view porn.
Yes, you are 100% right. No one knows in both of our ancedontal examples. You don't know for 100% fact and neither do I.
I do know we had the conversation with the gays in question, my wife and I know them very well-nown them for 55 years and 35+ years, they know we are not anti gay or anti marriage which would skew their answer. None of them said they were abused ever. Yes, many gays have been abused but most have not.
@Sanguine
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People here who are determined to view homosexuality as evil, i.e. 'something they could not be if they would just try and be good people.'
Those people do not believe in scientific studies and they apparently don't believe in anecdotal evidence.
What they are sorely lacking is common sense.
Science would tell us that the alimentary canal is a one-way street, and not intended to be a sex organ.
Science would tell us that there are a large number of diseases, many of them potentially fatal which can be readily transmitted, by using anatomical parts as they were not designed.
Common sense would tell us that the amount of pathogenic transfer by some of the more mundane homosexual behaviour isn't healthy, and some of the more extreme coprophillic and other fetishistic behaviour is downright UNhealthy.
Compassion would dictate instead of condoning or promoting those behaviours, they would be discouraged, just as we teach young children not to play with fire. If we won't teach schoolkids how to burn things, why would we need to teach them sexual behaviours which science would contraindicate as unhealthy?
Although homosexual behaviour isn't the sole means of transmission, it is largely responsible for the AIDS/HIV infection which affects 1.3 Million Americans alone, and common sense would dictate discouraging the behaviour which leads to the spread of a lethal disease which will cost between $600,000 and $750,000 per patient over their lifetimes (That's a trillion dollar bill for the rest of us, and there are new cases every day).
I'm not seeing a hell of a lot of common sense. I'm not seeing a hell of a lot of scientific thought. And I'm not seeing a hell of a lot of compassion, for the people who aren't homosexuals who are affected, nor the ones who are and are affected.
We'd have quarantined those affected with lethal communicable diseases in the past, but that was not done 'out of compassion' --in fact, the bath houses where the disease really got launched were not even shut down.
You don't let your kid play with matches just because they want to and think fire is pretty.
No one thinks letting them, much less encouraging them, to do so would be 'compassionate'.
We heartily discourage playing with fire instead. Why are there sex ed classes teaching people about anatomically damaging sexual practices?
We aren't so 'compassionate' toward pyromaniacs. They aren't a protected class, they don't get to have 'pride' days and promote their stuff in schools and media. They don't get to shut down bakers and florists and wedding venues with an 'If I can't have my way I'll ruin it for everyone' vindictiveness.
And pyromaniacs aren't even mentioned in the Bible.
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I think that's wrong, @musiclady. I think some of us on the right can be every bit as wrong - in the other direction of course.
And, yes, I had totally forgotten what this article was about and was just talking about our fellow humans.
The error is in thinking that recognizing that the behavior is wrong means that we don't love or care for the people who are committing the sins.
I'm sure you are aware of all the Christian organizations that help people who have problems with drugs or alcohol, or have had abortions. It is possible, and the only Christian position to have, to love people without accepting their sin.
We do it with ourselves. Why not others?
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Science would tell us that the alimentary canal is a one-way street, and not intended to be a sex organ.
Science would tell us that there are a large number of diseases, many of them potentially fatal which can be readily transmitted, by using anatomical parts as they were not designed.
Common sense would tell us that the amount of pathogenic transfer by some of the more mundane homosexual behaviour isn't healthy, and some of the more extreme coprophillic and other fetishistic behaviour is downright UNhealthy.
Do you smoke Smokin Joe? Because lungs were not designed to inhale from smokes. Smoking is one of the very worst things you can do to your body yet billions of people worldwide smoke. Billions are obese and eat themselves do death.
Smoking and obesity are the two largest reason why are health insurance cost so much.
Some people indulge in gay sex where they might possibly get Aids. Some people smoke and are obese which leads to a early death or poor quality of life in nearly all cases.
The Bible says something about your body being a temple and gluttony as sins.
You say gays or liberals pick and chose from the Bible but so do many Christians.
@Smokin Joe
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Do you smoke Smokin Joe? Because lungs were not designed to inhale from smokes. Smoking is one of the very worst things you can do to your body yet billions of people worldwide smoke. Billions are obese and eat themselves do death.
Smoking and obesity are the two largest reason why are health insurance cost so much.
Some people indulge in gay sex where they might possibly get Aids. Some people smoke and are obese which leads to a early death or poor quality of life in nearly all cases.
The Bible says something about your body being a temple and gluttony as sins.
You say gays or liberals pick and chose from the Bible but so do many Christians.
@Smokin Joe
I was a smoker, but I quit. The nickname came from an atmospheric quirk when I was a fireman. I came out of the building (where it was decidedly hot) and I was soaked, into very cold air, and had a cloud steaming off of me as a result. One of the guys on the crew who was outside saw me backlit by the circle-D's and said it looked like I was smoking all over. The handle stuck.
Funny thing, though, the State I live in has a well funded (46 million in the bank) organization which puts ads all over television telling me not to smoke. I paid extra, as a cigarette smoker, for life, health, even auto insurance. I was kicked out of buildings for smoking, told to stay at least 50 feet from the entrance. There are signs all over which say "no smoking", especially in the oil industry.
Put up even one sign, run even one ad telling people "no homosexuality allowed" and watch the race to file lawsuits.
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Do you smoke Smokin Joe? Because lungs were not designed to inhale from smokes. Smoking is one of the very worst things you can do to your body yet billions of people worldwide smoke. Billions are obese and eat themselves do death.
Smoking and obesity are the two largest reason why are health insurance cost so much.
Some people indulge in gay sex where they might possibly get Aids. Some people smoke and are obese which leads to a early death or poor quality of life in nearly all cases.
The Bible says something about your body being a temple and gluttony as sins.
You say gays or liberals pick and chose from the Bible but so do many Christians.
While the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and we should not defile it - the bible is pretty clear in terms of those things permissible and those things which are forbidden and sinful. There is no specific command not to smoke or inhale things that cause mind altering effects - and we can only glean from the scriptures about admonitions against drunkeness as a guide to where the boundaries would lie as to whether behavior was simply unwise or abjectly sinful. While wine and strong drink are permissible and even encouraged in scripture - addiction, alcoholism and gluttony indulgences that make such inebriations an idol are sinful.
Sexual immorality, homosexuality and adultery are specifically listed, named and repeated throughout scripture as sin, abomination and wickedness. Equating those behaviors with smoking is not biblical in terms of sin as God defines it.
But if smoking becomes an idol and all your time is spent satisfying your need for a nicotine fix - it would fit within the same category of drunkenness that scripture declares sinful.
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Go on nearly any conservative site and the anti gay/anti gay marriage threads are about 15 to 1 over adultery and fornication...maybe even higher
For 2% of the population there sure is a lot of hand wringing among Christians
Adultery and sex out of wedlock has hurt marriage and this country more than gays or gay marriage ever will just as gluttony(obesity) which is a mortal sin have hurt this country more than Aids ever will. Seen to many anti gay conservatives who are on their 2nd or 3rd marriage.
I'm done we all know each others views.
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Compassion would dictate instead of condoning or promoting those behaviours, they would be discouraged, just as we teach young children not to play with fire. If we won't teach schoolkids how to burn things, why would we need to teach them sexual behaviours which science would contraindicate as unhealthy?
Science would tell us that the human body isn't designed to go 60 mph. Common sense would tell us that an accident at that speed would be very dangerous.
Compassion would dictate that instead of condoning getting into a car, it should be discouraged.
By your logic, I mean.
But despite tens of thousands of people getting killed each year....tens of thousands!... we encourage people to take measures to do it more safely instead of attacking the activity itself.
Are we monsters?
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I'd just like to know why seemingly everyone thinks the cause is one thing or another. As if there can only be ONE cause for the desire.
@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer
You're not alone, if that's what you believe. I believe the evidence points toward more than one etiology.
It appears that there's a congenital component that causes someone to have that preference. It also might be possible that there's a genetic or congenital component that makes an abuse sufferer more susceptible to it having that result.
Another disturbing thing is that it seems few recognize the multiple definitions of "normal", and perhaps the use of "normative" should be more widespread to prevent confusion. Someone who enjoys carving egg shells is not "normal" in the normative sense, but not being normal doesn't mean something is pathological. A small percentage of bees don't gather pollen, but instead just fly out and "explore"...they aren't "normal". But remove them from the hive, and the hive doesn't know where to go when a location is threatened -- without them, bees would go extinct.
(https://topfiveofeverything.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/2.jpg)
In fact, science is showing how homosexuality might be evolutionarily advantageous. Generations of offspring tend to be more successful when there are non-reproducing members of the parent generation. These uncles and aunts are able to devote resources and attention to the fewer offspring, rather than the resources being dispersed among a larger number of offspring. [I wish I had the citations handy but at least one study was done on wolves.] It would make sense that this might have been a factor in human evolution, too. Note that a portion of the uncle/aunt genes would be transmitted via their supported sibling, so it's an example of "selfish altruism".
Of course, this is all separate from the teacher banning the cross and promoting a political agendum in the classroom. That behavior is obviously wrong.
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@musiclady
Do you really want to go down this road?
I recall a certain conversation with you when I said wives do not know if their husbands watch porn or not and there is a reason computers have browsing history delete and you said Godly husbands don't view porn.
Yes, you are 100% right. No one knows in both of our ancedontal examples. You don't know for 100% fact and neither do I.
I do know we had the conversation with the gays in question, my wife and I know them very well-nown them for 55 years and 35+ years, they know we are not anti gay or anti marriage which would skew their answer. None of them said they were abused ever. Yes, many gays have been abused but most have not.
@Sanguine
Actually, I could care less what excuse or reason your gay friends have for being homosexuals. What I do care about is the push by the LGBT community to accept them as normal and their encroachment on the Christian community expecting us to give up our religious beliefs to accommodate their abnormality and their abomination against those who refuse to accept their way of life. IMHO they are free to live their lives, but they have NO right to expect me to accept their immoral behavior and change my religious beliefs.
Yes, the left has pushed for LGBT rights. The left has pushed for abortion rights. The left is pushing for Islam/Muslim refugees. The left has pushed for sanctuary cities. The left has pushed for illegal immigration. The left is discriminating against Christianity. It is the left pushing political correctness down our throats and they ARE destroying our country.
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@musiclady
Do you really want to go down this road?
I recall a certain conversation with you when I said wives do not know if their husbands watch porn or not and there is a reason computers have browsing history delete and you said Godly husbands don't view porn.
@Sanguine
You really don't want to go back to that "conversation" where you accused my husband of being a lying pervert and accused me of being too stupid to know the difference, do you?
It was in that "conversation" where you revealed your need to brag about how debauched you were, and accuse everyone who said there were men who didn't allow themselves to go down the road to perversion and who didn't degrade and debase women, of having their "heads in the sand."
You just don't want to go there, @mirraflake. Now stop pinging me unless you have something to talk about other than the defense of sin and the mockery of those who seek to be Godly.
You are one of only 3 people on this forum whom I cannot take off Ignore.
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Actually, I could care less what excuse or reason your gay friends have for being homosexuals. What I do care about is the push by the LGBT community to accept them as normal and their encroachment on the Christian community expecting us to give up our religious beliefs to accommodate their abnormality and their abomination against those who refuse to accept their way of life. IMHO they are free to live their lives, but they have NO right to expect me to accept their immoral behavior and change my religious beliefs.
Yes, the left has pushed for LGBT rights. The left has pushed for abortion rights. The left is pushing for Islam/Muslim refugees. The left has pushed for sanctuary cities. The left has pushed for illegal immigration. The left is discriminating against Christianity. It is the left pushing political correctness down our throats and they ARE destroying our country.
That is the crux of the matter here, and the subject of this thread.
The LGBT "community" is seeking to impose their will on the majority by removing the rights of the majority.
The left is doing irreparable damage to this country by forcing their distortions on us.
This teacher is but one example of thousands.
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Science would tell us that the human body isn't designed to go 60 mph. Common sense would tell us that an accident at that speed would be very dangerous.
Compassion would dictate that instead of condoning getting into a car, it should be discouraged.
By your logic, I mean.
But despite tens of thousands of people getting killed each year....tens of thousands!... we encourage people to take measures to do it more safely instead of attacking the activity itself.
Are we monsters?
You missed my logic completely, and threw up a strawman.
Science has shown us that the human body can go in excess of 17000 miles per hour and with the proper accessories and precautions, survival is quite likely.
It isn't the velocity that is the problem; it is colliding with other objects and bodies which are in a fixed position or in motion on a different vector which causes the damage.
In fact we not only spend fortunes on an increasing array of devices to help prevent those collisions, and to mitigate their effects when they do happen. For most of my lifetime we have been bombarded with educational broadcasts designed to get people to use those devices, and to not engage in activities which make collisions more likely. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WYWOc4L9_0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WYWOc4L9_0)
We educate our children to not engage in those collisions.
We even have people who are paid, when they find people engaging in those reckless behaviours which are more likely to lead to a collision, will stop them and fine them under the law.
As I said, we discourage other harmful behaviour. We even pass laws against it. Even when 20% or more do it (tobacco smoking) regularly.
Unless they are part of the 1-2%. There really is no parallel between transportation accidents and using a rectum as a vagina, all jokes about being 'rear ended' aside. Nor are car wrecks spreading the disease that will cost the rest of us over a trillion dollars, just for those currently infected, and will destroy the health care system in this country.
If Barrack Obama had grabbed a trillion dollars out of the CR and said it's to pay for gays to get medical care for HIV/AIDS and we're taking it from you, Mr. and Mrs. (straight) Taxpayer, there would have been a revolt. Instead, in collusion with Pelosi and the Democrats in the House and Senate, they crafted a mucked up leviathan of a "healthcare" bill to "Insure the uninsurable and provide health care for all" Of course, the uninsurable thy showed you were children with cancer, not the Folsum Street Fair, and they made it look like everyone who wants freebies was going to get something for nothing. Sandra Fluke was going to get free fifty cent condoms. Women's 'health' was going to be covered, whether you needed it or not, dammit! (Ask a bunch of elderly nuns about that one). And if you were poor (and already on medicaid) the Government was going to issue you subsidies and get you on board. And if you were nasty straight middle-class white people you would either pay up 28K a year for your health "care" or do without insurance and be fined for the privilege.
It was shoved up our ass (funny how that has always been a description of an undesirable outcome) by the Democrats and upheld after some truly unprecedented departures from jurisprudence (Roberts re-writing law) by a SCOTUS surrounded by K-street et al in one of the most homosexually saturated areas outside San Francisco and Hawaii.
Source:https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/press-releases/lgbt-percentages-highest-in-washington-dc-and-hawaii/ (https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/press-releases/lgbt-percentages-highest-in-washington-dc-and-hawaii/)
This isn't some simple fender bender, we're talking about. It is the reallocation and redistribution of wealth of a whole country to a very small percentage who is suffering from a self-inflicted wound, and we can't even counsel against the practices, but instead are repeatedly told we have to "celebrate" them.
We don't "celebrate" driving like an idiot, we don't celebrate playing with explosives in the general population, in fact, even tobacco smokers are treated like second class citizens and charged more for their health insurance, despite many tobacco consumers living well into their 80s and beyond, and paying extra for everything from health, fire, life, and auto insurance.
But don't try to charge a homosexual more for insurance based on their behaviour. The question doesn't even get asked, despite the risks. If two percent of the US population is homosexual that's 6.6 million people. If only half of the 1.3 million AIDS/HIV patients acquired it through homosexual behaviour, the rate is 1000/10,000 of that population. Epidemiologically, that is huge, there still is no cure, and treatment will cost between $600,000 and $750,000 per patient over their remaining lifetime.
If similar numbers of licensed drivers in the US were to be involved in accidents, of 214 million drivers, there would be 21.4 million fatal or disabling accidents.
There are estimated to be roughly half that number of accidents of all severities, with roughly 5 million reported to police, and with roughly 1.5 million injuries, most of which are minor. Not all would have a fatal prognosis (actually, only about 37,000 annually). Those fatalities represent about 18/100000 of licensed drivers. But we don't tolerate (much less "celebrate") that, either, and instead do what we can to discourage the sort of behaviour that leads to that relatively small number of deaths.
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Go on nearly any conservative site and the anti gay/anti gay marriage threads are about 15 to 1 over adultery and fornication...maybe even higher
For 2% of the population there sure is a lot of hand wringing among Christians
Adultery and sex out of wedlock has hurt marriage and this country more than gays or gay marriage ever will just as gluttony(obesity) which is a mortal sin have hurt this country more than Aids ever will. Seen to many anti gay conservatives who are on their 2nd or 3rd marriage.
I'm done we all know each others views.
Links??
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@musiclady
None of them said they were abused ever. Yes, many gays have been abused but most have not.
@Sanguine
Well, 40% isn't a majority, that's true.
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Well, 40% isn't a majority, that's true.
He's also leaving out that I included "neglected" in with abused.
There are boys who need their Dad around, and growing up without one, or with one who just ignores them can create a need in some to have male attention........ of any kind.
There are usually psychological causes for aberrations from normality, and ignoring that isn't a very strong case for "science."
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Some people indulge in gay sex where they might possibly get Aids. Some people smoke and are obese which leads to a early death or poor quality of life in nearly all cases.
Yes, smoking and risky homosexual butt sex are exactly alike.
Nevertheless, the current PHS allocation of about $1.6 billion for AIDS research and education higher than that allocated for any other cause of death. In 1990, the CDC will spend $10,000 on prevention and education for each AIDS sufferer as opposed to $185 for each victim of cancer and a mere $3.50 or each cardiac patient.
http://fumento.com/aids/concov.html
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Go on nearly any conservative site and the anti gay/anti gay marriage threads are about 15 to 1 over adultery and fornication...maybe even higher
I don't think the adulterers and fornicators make a habit of getting in people's faces and screaming at them about how they need to be accepted for their sexual proclivities.
They also don't demand to indoctrinate everyone regarding adultery and fornication. They also don't demand Federal and State government expenditures to clean up the diseased mess they create by their adultery and fornication.
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He's also leaving out that I included "neglected" in with abused.
There are boys who need their Dad around, and growing up without one, or with one who just ignores them can create a need in some to have male attention........ of any kind.
There are usually psychological causes for aberrations from normality, and ignoring that isn't a very strong case for "science."
Yes, "dominating mothers" seems to be a factor in a lot of homosexual men. There are probably numerous components to some people going in that direction.
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Yes, "dominating mothers" seems to be a factor in a lot of homosexual men. There are probably numerous components to some people going in that direction.
I'm sure there are. And it's not likely that someone casually observing a family from the outside would have a clue as to which of those components were involved in a child's turn away from normalcy.
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I do know we had the conversation with the gays in question, my wife and I know them very well-nown them for 55 years and 35+ years, they know we are not anti gay or anti marriage which would skew their answer. None of them said they were abused ever. Yes, many gays have been abused but most have not.
Since you seem to favor the observation POV... I have known two gay fellows, both neighbors at one time.
One (John) was raised an only child by his aunt, mother died at birth, father an alcoholic died while John was around 4 or 5. Left with money from selling the family business, John was smothered in a cocoon from then on. He was not allowed to go outside and play, he only interaction with others was piano lessons and school. He was dressed in fancy garb day in and day out making him target of kids in school. He had no understanding how to cope with other children so he sunk further and further into his own little world. He once on valentines day asked his aunt for a box of chocolates for a girl he fancied at school. This backfired on him in ways kids can be cruel, she taunted him and her friends taunted him for daring to approach her in such a manner. Then the guys sensed his weakness and taunted him. He never got over that as far as I could tell. He just slipped into pretending to be asexual from that point on until he graduated and moved off.
Case Two. Chris (and Chris B).
Chris came from a wealthy affluent family in the community. Mother was sweet-natured Christian socialite who had her hand in about everything, Father was very busy businessman in the hosiery industry who had little time to devote to carefree son. Chris was the third child born very late behind his brothers. He was also basically left to be raised by his mother who left him to his rich playboy lifestyle in a small town. He was not very athletic but well liked because he drove the best cars, had blow dough, and drugs. Plus having two big brothers in a small town tends to keep the bully part down. Chris went wild basically, but managed to keep most of it hidden from his mother whom he did love. Chris found a friend in another fellow (also named Chris) that fancied himself (We will call him Chris B) a budding actor. I don't know a whole lot about the other Chris (Chris B) because he was not a neighbor, but he seemed to be not rich and enjoyed the company of rich Chris. They often would spend their time visiting people in the play acting business in a nearby big city. The two of them became gayer by the year. Both died of aids years later, both had numerous partners over the years.
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Do I believe homosexuality is science (just happens)? No. It was a learned behavior over time. Rebellion in one case, fear of failure in another. Mental issues.
But if you can find the gene for it, lets us know, I am sure those for abortion would love to check before having a baby to abort it so they can have grandchildren.
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Since you seem to favor the observation POV... I have known two gay fellows, both neighbors at one time.
One (John) was raised an only child by his aunt, mother died at birth, father an alcoholic died while John was around 4 or 5. Left with money from selling the family business, John was smothered in a cocoon from then on. He was not allowed to go outside and play, he only interaction with others was piano lessons and school. He was dressed in fancy garb day in and day out making him target of kids in school. He had no understanding how to cope with other children so he sunk further and further into his own little world. He once on valentines day asked his aunt for a box of chocolates for a girl he fancied at school. This backfired on him in ways kids can be cruel, she taunted him and her friends taunted him for daring to approach her in such a manner. Then the guys sensed his weakness and taunted him. He never got over that as far as I could tell. He just slipped into pretending to be asexual from that point on until he graduated and moved off.
Case Two. Chris (and Chris B).
Chris came from a wealthy affluent family in the community. Mother was sweet-natured Christian socialite who had her hand in about everything, Father was very busy businessman in the hosiery industry who had little time to devote to carefree son. Chris was the third child born very late behind his brothers. He was also basically left to be raised by his mother who left him to his rich playboy lifestyle in a small town. He was not very athletic but well liked because he drove the best cars, had blow dough, and drugs. Plus having two big brothers in a small town tends to keep the bully part down. Chris went wild basically, but managed to keep most of it hidden from his mother whom he did love. Chris found a friend in another fellow (also named Chris) that fancied himself (We will call him Chris B) a budding actor. I don't know a whole lot about the other Chris (Chris B) because he was not a neighbor, but he seemed to be not rich and enjoyed the company of rich Chris. They often would spend their time visiting people in the play acting business in a nearby big city. The two of them became gayer by the year. Both died of aids years later, both had numerous partners over the years.
___________________________________________________
Do I believe homosexuality is science (just happens)? No. It was a learned behavior over time. Rebellion in one case, fear of failure in another. Mental issues.
But if you can find the gene for it, lets us know, I am sure those for abortion would love to check before having a baby to abort it so they can have grandchildren.
Yep my brother like John. Mom was sick with cancer. Dad never home. When my mother died he practically raised himself. Was bullied at school and Dad had no idea what was going on. Then my mother died and about a year later my father married. She was a control freak. Put him in piano. He was always dressed well. Didn't wear jeans or have a normal boys life. No sports. No socializing with other boys. She didn't like dirty at all.
This is how I know that my brother was shaped by his experiences while he was young. He was not born gay.
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@Sighlasss You see, I knew a fellow like that in college. He was raised by an aunt on the Garden Party circuit in Virginia, and spoke and gestured effeminately. We took him in as a project and taught him to drink like a longshoreman, cuss like a stable boy, drive like a bootlegger, even took him caving and camping. It gave him one heck of a shot in the arm, and a group of 'bros' who had his back. The funny part was that he had it all over us ruffians. He spoke five languages fluently and could dance (really, ballroom dance, not just jump around in time to the music or belly rub) the legs off of any 4 or 5 women in a night. And he was by no account anything but a ladies man after that, and used his newfound confidence to end up with a wonderful and incredibly attractive wife.
I guess a lot depends on the people they meet.
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@Smokin Joe
I guess a lot depends on the people they meet.
Yep, reason they want to get to them young if they can. Schools are the battleground and they know it.
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@Smokin Joe
Yep, reason they want to get to them young if they can. Schools are the battleground and they know it.
Yup, that's why they told us "All normal boys have homosexual thoughts and feelings." in middleschool.
Fortunately us rural kids already knew BS when we saw it.
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I don't think the adulterers and fornicators make a habit of getting in people's faces and screaming at them about how they need to be accepted for their sexual proclivities.
They also don't demand to indoctrinate everyone regarding adultery and fornication. They also don't demand Federal and State government expenditures to clean up the diseased mess they create by their adultery and fornication.
Christian business owners are not refusing to sell to adulters and fornicators. I found one case in Scotland of a B&B where you had to prove you are married.
If they did youu would see thousands of lawsuits against the Christian business owners.
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Christian business owners are not refusing to sell to adulters and fornicators.
Adulterers and fornicators are not shoving their behavior into the faces of Christian businesses and demanding they bake cakes or photograph their behavior.
There is still some shame left in engaging in such behavior.
Homosexuality - not so much. They have parades to flaunt it among other things.
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Bammy declared the month of June as LGBT Pride Month ... can President Trump rescind that?
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Science would tell us that the alimentary canal is a one-way street, and not intended to be a sex organ.
If not for an evolutionarily advantageous reason, why do you suppose the Creator put all those pleasure sensory nerve endings one penis-length within the posterior end of the male alimentary canal, where they are not otherwise accessed?
I'm hypothesizing that some male homosexuality in a population might serve an evolutionary purpose, and that our anatomy reflects that.
Or is this one of those cases where God provides forbidden temptations just to torment people, à la The Book of Job?
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If not for an evolutionarily advantageous reason, why do you suppose the Creator put all those pleasure sensory nerve endings one penis-length within the posterior end of the male alimentary canal, where they are not otherwise accessed?
I'm hypothesizing that some male homosexuality in a population might serve an evolutionary purpose, and that our anatomy reflects that.
Or is this one of those cases where God provides forbidden temptations just to torment people, à la The Book of Job?
So long fingered doctors would get to do prostate checks, too?
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So long fingered doctors would get to do prostate checks, too?
Damn, @Smokin Joe ...I actually twitched after reading that! :smokin:
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If not for an evolutionarily advantageous reason, why do you suppose the Creator put all those pleasure sensory nerve endings one penis-length within the posterior end of the male alimentary canal, where they are not otherwise accessed?
It feels good to hatch a monster loaf number one -
Number two - the Cowpers gland exists there in that location for the sole purpose of creating alkaline mucous pre-ejaculate to protect sperm through the urethra so acid from urine will not kill it. It's right below the prostate and is not there for the purpose of anal sex pleasure - but is there upon stimulation of normal sex to prepare the sperm for the express train to meet an egg.
After having a lower GI and on a first-name basis with my urologist - I can state unequivocally that items inserted in the OUT BOX are hardly anything pleasurable. Even when Mr. Urologist has to manhandle the prostate to check for cancer growths.
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It feels good to hatch a monster loaf number one -
Number two - the Cowpers gland exists there in that location for the sole purpose of creating alkaline mucous pre-ejaculate to protect sperm through the urethra so acid from urine will not kill it. It's right below the prostate and is not there for the purpose of anal sex pleasure - but is there upon stimulation of normal sex to prepare the sperm for the express train to meet an egg.
After having a lower GI and on a first-name basis with my urologist - I can state unequivocally that items inserted in the OUT BOX are hardly anything pleasurable. Even when Mr. Urologist has to manhandle the prostate to check for cancer growths.
Well, I've never had the, uh, pleasure, of exploring this avenue... ...but there are plenty of glands in the body that don't have stimulation nerve endings...so why is the Cowpers gland so different? Manual stimulation isn't required for its function.
What's the evolutionary benefit of pleasure during defecation?
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Well, I've never had the, uh, pleasure, of exploring this avenue... ...but there are plenty of glands in the body that don't have stimulation nerve endings...so why is the Cowpers gland so different? Manual stimulation isn't required for its function.
What's the evolutionary benefit of pleasure during defecation?
Not only do you have the inherent gratification of creating a work of art worthy of Robert Mapplethorpe, it keeps you moving--and may be part of the reason failure to evacuate is unpleasant as well.
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Not only do you have the inherent gratification of creating a work of art worthy of Robert Mapplethorpe, it keeps you moving--and may be part of the reason failure to evacuate is unpleasant as well.
Joe gets it.
Of course - ridding yourself of a creamy behemoth often results in our own individual Picasso Bowl Masterpieces that may take several flushes to water down and diminish.
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Hey, guys - you do know you're not in here by yourselves, right?
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Hey, guys - you do know you're not in here by yourselves, right?
Thanks for saying that.
I think I need to "Mark as read" this thread every time a new post comes up.
:terror:
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Hey, guys - you do know you're not in here by yourselves, right?
@musiclady @Sanguine Well, ladies, we were commenting on modern art. Sculpture, to be precise. Something with an organic air. Somewhat precocious but not premature. Don't worry. This too will pass.
We now return to our regularly scheduled thread about homosexuals reacting badly to religious adornment. :silly:
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@musiclady @Sanguine Well, ladies, we were commenting on modern art. Sculpture, to be precise. Something with an organic air. Somewhat precocious but not premature. Don't worry. This too will pass.
We now return to our regularly scheduled thread about homosexuals reacting badly to religious adornment. :silly:
Whatever it was, I'm glad it's over!
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Well, I've never had the, uh, pleasure, of exploring this avenue... ...but there are plenty of glands in the body that don't have stimulation nerve endings...so why is the Cowpers gland so different? Manual stimulation isn't required for its function.
What's the evolutionary benefit of pleasure during defecation?
Prostate in a male is the uterus in a female. Cowper gland in a male is the same tissue that becomes the cervix in a female. It's the same bunch of cells, repurposed to make two different organs.
What, you thought boys and girls developed in utero completely differently?
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Prostate in a male is the uterus in a female. Cowper gland in a male is the same tissue that becomes the cervix in a female. It's the same bunch of cells, repurposed to make two different organs.
What, you thought boys and girls developed in utero completely differently?
Well, some stem cells become stems... :shrug: :whistle:
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Prostate in a male is the uterus in a female. Cowper gland in a male is the same tissue that becomes the cervix in a female. It's the same bunch of cells, repurposed to make two different organs.
What, you thought boys and girls developed in utero completely differently?
No, I didn't. I'm very aware of this.
I'm not the one arguing that a Creator created things perfectly for their intended purpose, etc., etc.
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Hey, guys - you do know you're not in here by yourselves, right?
@Sanguine
Thank you. I dropped in and backed out quick. Ugh.
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Holy cow, this thing imploded quicker than a Bishop's synod in a gay bar.
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Holy cow, this thing imploded quicker than a Bishop's synod in a gay bar.
Hah! I check in on this thread occasionally to see how crazy it's gotten. The answer is:
Real.
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Hah! I check in on this thread occasionally to see how crazy it's gotten. The answer is:
Real.
As they say on the Far Side....Just plain nuts!