The Briefing Room
General Category => Health/Education => Topic started by: Hoodat on April 21, 2020, 08:59:54 pm
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More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
AP | 21 Apr 2020
A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.
The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.
The was posted on an online site for researchers and has been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine, but has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.
Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.
Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.
https://www.breitbart.com/news/more-deaths-no-benefit-from-malaria-drug-in-va-virus-study/ (https://www.breitbart.com/news/more-deaths-no-benefit-from-malaria-drug-in-va-virus-study/)
They didn't give the patients zinc sulfate. They purposely omitted the zinc sulfate just so they could discredit Trump. Patients ended up dying in this bogus study because of it. There is a special place in hell reserved for people like this.
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Lots of things right now are being done to discredit Trump. Regardless of this study, there are cases where hydroxychloronique and the zpack combo have been saving lives - not sure about the regiment of zinc included with those but nonetheless ... reports have stated that the combo reduces symptoms. There was never a claim that it cures.
I do know that heart patients cannot take the combo -- so perhaps it was given to heart patients in a last ditch effort to save lives?
Anymore, even "hell" is beginning to look like it's a place too good for some of the DEMS and lying liberal media!
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Regardless of this study, there are cases where hydroxychloronique and the zpack combo have been saving lives - not sure about the regiment of zinc included with those but nonetheless ... reports have stated that the combo reduces symptoms.
The original trial in France included zinc. The hydroxychloroquine provides a vehicle for introducing the zinc inside the cell. It is the zinc that kills the virus. The z-pack only prevents a secondary bacterial infection from taking hold. It does nothing to fight off the coronavirus.
Eliminating zinc from the study effectively dismisses the reason for using hydroxychloroquine to begin with. These people knew that. They had the results of the French trial. They knew that zinc was the crucial part. But they omitted it just so they could discredit Trump (who failed to mention zinc in his initial tweet).
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The original trial in France included zinc. The hydroxychloroquine provides a vehicle for introducing the zinc inside the cell. It is the zinc that kills the virus. The z-pack only prevents a secondary bacterial infection from taking hold. It does nothing to fight off the coronavirus.
Eliminating zinc from the study effectively dismisses the reason for using hydroxychloroquine to begin with. These people knew that. They had the results of the French trial. They knew that zinc was the crucial part. But they omitted it just so they could discredit Trump (who failed to mention zinc in his initial tweet).
Read briefly several different articles on the affect of zinc on COVID-19, none would confirm the benefit because of lack of data, but reports do show that zinc has a definite impact on other coronaviruses and the common cold.
I'd take my chances. And yes, you are absolutely correct ... omitting zinc from the treatment in this study was wrong. Destroying lives to make a political point ... despicable, disgraceful and pure evil.
https://www.uchealth.org/today/zinc-could-help-diminish-extent-of-covid-19/ (https://www.uchealth.org/today/zinc-could-help-diminish-extent-of-covid-19/)
https://www.cnet.com/news/zinc-supplements-wont-protect-you-from-the-coronavirus/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/zinc-supplements-wont-protect-you-from-the-coronavirus/)
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OKZbrk8Y7Q#)
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The original trial in France included zinc. The hydroxychloroquine provides a vehicle for introducing the zinc inside the cell. It is the zinc that kills the virus. The z-pack only prevents a secondary bacterial infection from taking hold. It does nothing to fight off the coronavirus.
Eliminating zinc from the study effectively dismisses the reason for using hydroxychloroquine to begin with. These people knew that. They had the results of the French trial. They knew that zinc was the crucial part. But they omitted it just so they could discredit Trump (who failed to mention zinc in his initial tweet).
QFT ... all of it. happy77
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Lots of things right now are being done to discredit Trump. Regardless of this study, there are cases where hydroxychloronique and the zpack combo have been saving lives - not sure about the regiment of zinc included with those but nonetheless ... reports have stated that the combo reduces symptoms. There was never a claim that it cures.
I do know that heart patients cannot take the combo -- so perhaps it was given to heart patients in a last ditch effort to save lives?
Anymore, even "hell" is beginning to look like it's a place too good for some of the DEMS and lying liberal media!
The zinc stops viral replication. Hydroxychloroquine lets the zinc in the cell. The Z-pack slightly reduces the immune (cytokine) response, has an idiopathic antiviral effect, and wards off bacterial infection.
But giving the Hydroxychloroquine and Zithromax without the zinc is like sending landing craft to the beach empty.
And they did that to Vets.
That's just a bleep obscenity.
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Hoodat...
They didn't give the patients zinc sulfate. They purposely omitted the zinc sulfate just so they could discredit Trump. Patients ended up dying in this bogus study because of it. There is a special place in hell reserved for people like this.
Anyone trusting their life to AMA physicians is an utter fool. FOOL!!!! FOOL!!! FOOL!!!
They are not to be trusted. This is the kind of EXPERIMENTATION they practice, and the patients they kill are buried and cannot file an objection. *sshats like Dr Fauci are just the kind of physicians that exist across our country. Your life is in peril, your financial wellbeing is of no concern to these pukes.
TRUMP HAS LISTENED TO THESE HACKS FOR THREE MONTHS TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE USA!!! TRAGIC!!!
BEWARE is the key word of the day of all AMA physicians that have no sense of morality when dealing with patients. They are the 4TH LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN AMERICA, DO NOT FORGET THAT AT THE PERIL OF YOUR LIFE!
BTW, my wife a CDC physician, has a friend in New York that has treated hundreds of patients in severe condition with Hydroxy and the rest of the therapy, without losing a single patient. So, the doctors at the VA hospital should have their medical licenses revoked!!! No wonder the veterans are disgusted with these Dr Frankensteins!!!
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Thank goodness our President has stock piled over 30 million doses. Maybe more since he bragged about it over a week ago.
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Lots of things right now are being done to discredit Trump. Regardless of this study, there are cases where hydroxychloronique and the zpack combo have been saving lives - not sure about the regiment of zinc included with those but nonetheless ... reports have stated that the combo reduces symptoms. There was never a claim that it cures.
I do know that heart patients cannot take the combo -- so perhaps it was given to heart patients in a last ditch effort to save lives?
Anymore, even "hell" is beginning to look like it's a place too good for some of the DEMS and lying liberal media!
@libertybele
As someone who has spent WAAAAY too much time visiting VA hospitals,I can tell you their "customer base" isn't typical of hosptials. People in their 50's are almost considered to be children. It's "Geezer Central",and even considering that,many of the geezers have health issues the typical hospital never sees,and may not have even heard of.
Not to mention a large portion of the patients have mental problems,and have been self-medicating for years,or never received any treatment at all for it,with few patients in the middle.
In other words,not a good patient base for the typical American to be compared to when it comes to treatment.
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Buck Sexton @BuckSexton
Here’s what an infectious disease doctor tied to a major nyc hospital told me about this study:
“This is probably the worst of study designs: retrospective analysis, with no stated methods as to how patients were assigned one of three treatment arms.â€
In addition, the three groups were not entirely comparable, and all were sick enough to be hospitalized.
A key indicator of prognosis, fibrin degradation products, was not even measured.
“It may be proven true in subsequent, prospective trials, we should understand proponents of the use of hydroxychloroquine in various combinations with other drugs all suggest that the drug is most effective when used early, well before patients "qualify" for hospitalization.â€
“This is similar to the way we use oseltamivir or baloxavir for influenza: unless started within 72 hours of onset of viral symptoms, these effective, proven, and licensed drugs have little or no demonstrable effect on the course of influenza.â€
“However, we still routinely will use them in advanced, late (>72 hours) influenza patients who are sick enough to be admitted to he hospitalâ€
So basically, this study does not refute previous positive studies, and more clinical trials are necessary-
We can still be hopeful
7:07 PM · Apr 22, 2020·
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It is no longer a disease. It is now a political tool.
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It is no longer a disease. It is now a political tool.
When was it not?
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When was it not?
@Cyber Liberty
Good point.
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https://pjmedia.com/trending/five-problems-with-the-study-that-claims-more-deaths-from-treating-coronavirus-with-hydroxychloroquine/
Five Problems With the Study That Claims 'More Deaths' From Treating Coronavirus With Hydroxychloroquine
BY MATT MARGOLIS APRIL 22, 2020
But, if you actually read through the reporting, even read through the study itself, it becomes clear that the media, which was quick to downplay or ignore earlier studies showing the drug worked, were too quick to hype this study's findings. Here are five problems with the study that should give you pause before you turn your back on hydroxychloroquine.
5. It was a small, non-peer-reviewed study, not a clinical trial
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4. The patients were not representative of the entire population
By now there are a number of things we've learned about the coronavirus: It has a higher fatality rate with males, older people are more likely to be affected by it, most who die from it had other illnesses. The patients whose records were analyzed for this study were all male. The patients' ages ranged from 59 to 75, with a median age of 70 (... treated with hydroxychloroquine), 68 (... hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin), and 69 (... standard treatment alone). The patients were also disproportionately black. According to the census, 13.4 percent of United States population is black, but in the study, 68% (HC), 59% (HC+AZ), and 65% (No HC) of the patients were black. There is a known racial disparity in how the coronavirus impacts those who contract it that isn't fully understood yet.
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3. The most severe cases disproportionately received the drug
The study itself acknowledges that "hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease." In such a small study that isn't representative of the entire population, this would likely impact the results. ...
2. Other studies and anecdotal reports suggest it helps
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1. The study concluded that controlled trials are still needed
Gotcha-Trump Fail!
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https://pjmedia.com/trending/five-problems-with-the-study-that-claims-more-deaths-from-treating-coronavirus-with-hydroxychloroquine/
Five Problems With the Study That Claims 'More Deaths' From Treating Coronavirus With Hydroxychloroquine
BY MATT MARGOLIS APRIL 22, 2020
Gotcha-Trump Fail!
Every time i read about this study, i see something missing.
Whether that is missing because the media are (all?) too lazy to type "and Zinc" or "and Zinc Sulfate" in the pharmacology or whether the Zinc supplements WERE NOT GIVEN, I don't know.
Often one of the most aggravating things about journalism is what simply isn't said.
I would wager that commonly is a result of the writers having little or no understanding of the subject.
SO, just for fun, the pharmacology and the why:
Basically, the SARS-CoV-2 virus attacks the cell by invading it, looting it of cell material to build more viruses, which escape to do more damage, killing the cell. The virus attaches to a specific protein and that is how it gets into the cell, past the membrane that surrounds the cell. In this case, the cell is one in the lungs that allows Oxygen into and Carbon Dioxide out of the bloodstream, essential for life. There are a lot of these cells, but if too many are killed, we can't breathe and we die.
What will stop the virus from replicating is zinc, but it has to be in the cell to do so.
If the Zinc is outside the cell, it can't stop the virus from trashing the inside of the cell and making more viruses.
The Zinc needs a way in.
Hydroxychloroquine opens corridors through the normally highly selective membranes that surround the cell and lets the zinc in. Then the Zinc can interfere with the virus trying to make more viruses, keep it from trashing the cell, the cell lives, the virus doesn't--but the zinc has to be there first.
Azithromycin helps defeat the virus' replication. Though the process isn't quite understood, it has been seen before. It also has two other effects. First, as an antibiotic, it helps ward off any infection that might come from bacteria (something antibiotics are generally good at, even though by themselves they usually are not effective against viruses.)
The other effect is that Azithromycin (known as a Z-pack) tends to have a mild effect of reducing the body's immune response. (also noted before SARS-CoV-2 came along).
Why is that important? In cases where the disease (COVID-19, caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2) is well advanced, there are a lot of dead cells laying around in the lungs. The human body likes tidy tissues, and responds to dead cells laying around and to microbes invading by getting the immune system cells going, fighting what it can, producing mucous to wash away the mess, which isn't a bad thing unless the damage already done is just too great. Then that response all at once can do more damage, even enough to be fatal. Actually slowing that response down a little can be beneficial to the patient.
So, that's why ALL THREE, the hydroxychloroquine (to let the zinc into the cell to stop the virus), the Zinc Sulfate (to provide the zinc to stop the virus from killing the cell), and the Azithromycin (to slow the virus, the immune response, and to keep the bacteria out of the fight), are important.
Not once in mention of this study have I seen any mention that any zinc supplements were used.
That would be like fighting D-Day with empty landing craft.
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It is no longer a disease. It is now a political tool.
And the rat media are relentless in using it.
BTW according to a recent Stanford study, true infection rates reflect a mortality of something closer to .1%. At least in the Santa Clara Valley.
So, it's looking like those who claimed this whole 'pandemic' was no worse than the average flu on a bad year were right and we've all been clowned, big time.
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That is why Trump condescending Brian Kemp makes no sense. Gov. Kemp is making cautious decisions yet in the framework of restoring normal living. Trump, is turning into a Romney Rat with his f*&^ing negative comments on Gov Kemp's actions.
Trump is attempting to do what exactly with these negative comments? Insulate himself from any negative outcome? How much more cowardly could he be? First he follows Obama's Playbook of Lead from Behind, and now condemning someone brave and deliberate of mind to restore normal living in his state. I just do not care for his cowardly weak minded bullsh*t!!!
I applaud Gov Kemp for having the determination to lead his state, my state, from this debacle created largely by the media with the federal government in lock step behind the nonsense.
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Oh my gosh! Trump said something that pisses somebody off! Hold the presses.......
This might cost him the Election.
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Every time i read about this study, i see something missing.
Whether that is missing because the media are (all?) too lazy to type "and Zinc" or "and Zinc Sulfate" in the pharmacology or whether the Zinc supplements WERE NOT GIVEN, I don't know.
@Smokin Joe
Zinc sulfate was purposely omitted from the study People died as a result of it. They took Trump at his exact word (as if Trump was a medical expert) and only used the medications he mentioned instead of looking at the actual trial. The purpose of the exercise was to make Trump look bad instead of finding a successful treatment for people in danger of dying. And on top of that, they did it to military veterans.
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@Smokin Joe
Zinc sulfate was purposely omitted from the study People died as a result of it. They took Trump at his exact word (as if Trump was a medical expert) and only used the medications he mentioned instead of looking at the actual trial. The purpose of the exercise was to make Trump look bad instead of finding a successful treatment for people in danger of dying. And on top of that, they did it to military veterans.
Bottom line: They deliberately let people die, just to score political points. That's bleeped up.
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@Smokin Joe
Zinc sulfate was purposely omitted from the study People died as a result of it. They took Trump at his exact word (as if Trump was a medical expert) and only used the medications he mentioned instead of looking at the actual trial. The purpose of the exercise was to make Trump look bad instead of finding a successful treatment for people in danger of dying. And on top of that, they did it to military veterans.
@Hoodat
MORE win/win for the goobermint! Each vet that dies is one less compensation check the government has to pay each month.
And people are saying they don't know how to balance a budget............
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Here is the study. No zinc.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v2.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v2.full.pdf)
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So, that's why ALL THREE, the hydroxychloroquine (to let the zinc into the cell to stop the virus), the Zinc Sulfate (to provide the zinc to stop the virus from killing the cell), and the Azithromycin (to slow the virus, the immune response, and to keep the bacteria out of the fight), are important.
At least this is what one doctor in NY is telling us. I was agreeing with a fellow Briefer last night that immediacy and panic helped sell $2.8T in 4 recent laws. The Chinese and French said hydroxychloroquine might be useful against COVID-19 so it makes sense to test it. What doesn't make sense is for all medical trials to only consist of hydroxychloroquine, Zinc Sulfate, Azithromycin based on the unsubstantiated claims of one doctor and the President's hunch about this stuff, even if his brother was a doctor.
If my doctor came to me and said we want to try a combination of drugs that we haven't tested individually and hope something works, I'd get a new doctor and tell him I am not panicked by immediacy.
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It is no longer a disease. It is now a political tool.
I surely is that.
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What doesn't make sense is for all medical trials to only consist of hydroxychloroquine, Zinc Sulfate, Azithromycin based on the unsubstantiated claims of one doctor and the President's hunch about this stuff, even if his brother was a doctor.
The VA did a study with hydroxychloroquine alone, and hydroxychloroquine in combination with azithromycin. They failed to include zinc sulfate with any trial. THAT is what doesn't make sense.
If these so-called medical experts performed a trial based solely on a comment President Trump made instead of following up on an actual medical trial, then they should have their licenses taken away and held liable for medical malpractice.
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At least this is what one doctor in NY is telling us. I was agreeing with a fellow Briefer last night that immediacy and panic helped sell $2.8T in 4 recent laws. The Chinese and French said hydroxychloroquine might be useful against COVID-19 so it makes sense to test it. What doesn't make sense is for all medical trials to only consist of hydroxychloroquine, Zinc Sulfate, Azithromycin based on the unsubstantiated claims of one doctor and the President's hunch about this stuff, even if his brother was a doctor.
If my doctor came to me and said we want to try a combination of drugs that we haven't tested individually and hope something works, I'd get a new doctor and tell him I am not panicked by immediacy.
In full disclosure, your doctor would also tell you that the three together are most effective in the earlier stages of the disease, before people have gone so far down hill they need a ventilator. By then much of the alveolar damage is done.
Now, let's define "untested". Where all three have been used before the patient going on a ventilator, there has been report of good results.
Where one or two of the three drugs has been used, or just the hydroxychloroquine, the results have not been as good.
Why? For starters, it is the Zinc, admitted to the cell by the action of the hydroxychloroquine, which inhibits viral replication, stopping the virus from reproducing and saving the cell. Without it, there is no active ingredient to stop the virus.
The Azithromycin has a mild effect on the immune system, helping prevent cytokine storm, acts to stop bacterial opportunistic infections, and may interfere slightly with viral replication as well.
What IS evident without going to the trouble of killing people with placebo studies, is that if you leave one of those three legs off the pharmacological stool, you will end up flat on your ass. Leaving the zinc out condemned these people to death. What's more, an opportunity was lost, not only to save lives, but to fully test the regimen as it was announced by the doctor who came up with it, a doctor who explained in simple terms what each of the three medications did to work together to defeat the virus. All the more shameful, imho.
If you want an "approved method", as in FDA approved, I must ask if you know how long it takes to get FDA approval for a drug or combination of drugs for a specific use, or what is involved.
Tiered double blind studies, which have patients who get the drug and patients who do not, must be conducted in order to establish efficacy vs doing nothing. Side effects must be documented and analyzed statistically. These tests and the write-ups can take a year or more. Some of the patients will receive placebos instead of medication, and may very well die as a result.
Considering this is a novel virus, one that has never been seen before (except, perhaps, inside a Chinese lab), there is NO "FDA approved" regimen of treatment. This is ad-lib, improvisation, trial and error, call it what you will, but we know that opening pathways into the cell but not putting zinc through them to stop the virus, even with Azithromycin, doesn't work. I guess the VA proved that.
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But there is huge money in developing and requiring a vaccine, while people lose everything they own on lockdown (or the country is bankrupted bailing them out). There will be properties to be picked up for pennies by the banks, and resold for enormous profit, while the value of the dollar may even crumble to the point it is no longer the world's reserve currency. The effects of that are guaranteed to be devastating on a scale and scope that will make The Great Depression take second place. And then there is the political value (for some) in saying "We did what you said and it didn't work." as if that was a shield for criminal incompetence.
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In full disclosure, your doctor would also tell you that the three together are most effective in the earlier stages of the disease, before people have gone so far down hill they need a ventilator. By then much of the alveolar damage is done.
Now, let's define "untested". Where all three have been used before the patient going on a ventilator, there has been report of good results.
Where one or two of the three drugs has been used, or just the hydroxychloroquine, the results have not been as good.
Why? For starters, it is the Zinc, admitted to the cell by the action of the hydroxychloroquine, which inhibits viral replication, stopping the virus from reproducing and saving the cell. Without it, there is no active ingredient to stop the virus.
The Azithromycin has a mild effect on the immune system, helping prevent cytokine storm, acts to stop bacterial opportunistic infections, and may interfere slightly with viral replication as well.
What IS evident without going to the trouble of killing people with placebo studies, is that if you leave one of those three legs off the pharmacological stool, you will end up flat on your ass. Leaving the zinc out condemned these people to death. What's more, an opportunity was lost, not only to save lives, but to fully test the regimen as it was announced by the doctor who came up with it, a doctor who explained in simple terms what each of the three medications did to work together to defeat the virus. All the more shameful, imho.
If you want an "approved method", as in FDA approved, I must ask if you know how long it takes to get FDA approval for a drug or combination of drugs for a specific use, or what is involved.
Tiered double blind studies, which have patients who get the drug and patients who do not, must be conducted in order to establish efficacy vs doing nothing. Side effects must be documented and analyzed statistically. These tests and the write-ups can take a year or more. Some of the patients will receive placebos instead of medication, and may very well die as a result.
Considering this is a novel virus, one that has never been seen before (except, perhaps, inside a Chinese lab), there is NO "FDA approved" regimen of treatment. This is ad-lib, improvisation, trial and error, call it what you will, but we know that opening pathways into the cell but not putting zinc through them to stop the virus, even with Azithromycin, doesn't work. I guess the VA proved that.
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But there is huge money in developing and requiring a vaccine, while people lose everything they own on lockdown (or the country is bankrupted bailing them out). There will be properties to be picked up for pennies by the banks, and resold for enormous profit, while the value of the dollar may even crumble to the point it is no longer the world's reserve currency. The effects of that are guaranteed to be devastating on a scale and scope that will make The Great Depression take second place. And then there is the political value (for some) in saying "We did what you said and it didn't work." as if that was a shield for criminal incompetence.
Fantastic post and a great argument. Probably better than mine will be. You've weaved a cohesive, well thought-out, and an easily understood well written argument. I couldn't be happier, this is why I come here. This is why I think you're awesome @Smokin Joe . This is why people come to the briefingroom.
There has been anecdotal evidence that the three drugs combined produce results. I don't know why other tests are/or are not being conducted. My post was to explain why I understand scientists testing one or two drugs at a time to measure efficacy and side-effects. You, Dr Zelenko, and President Trump could be right about your hunches. Hopefully more trials will be documented. I think they will.
It is unfortunate that there is some evidence that the 3 drugs work best before lethal symptoms set in...this will make trials more difficult if the medicinal cocktail is ineffective for patients who do not show signs of the virus.
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Fantastic post and a great argument. Probably better than mine will be. You've weaved a cohesive, well thought-out, and an easily understood well written argument. I couldn't be happier, this is why I come here. This is why I think you're awesome @Smokin Joe . This is why people come to the briefingroom.
There has been anecdotal evidence that the three drugs combined produce results. I don't know why other tests are/or are not being conducted. My post was to explain why I understand scientists testing one or two drugs at a time to measure efficacy and side-effects. You, Dr Zelenko, and President Trump could be right about your hunches. Hopefully more trials will be documented. I think they will.
It is unfortunate that there is some evidence that the 3 drugs work best before lethal symptoms set in...this will make trials more difficult if the medicinal cocktail is ineffective for patients who do not show signs of the virus.
The Medicos need to draw a line. There's treatment before needing a ventilator, and a new regime must apply when it's too late to prevent the lungs from filling up.
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Fantastic post and a great argument. Probably better than mine will be. You've weaved a cohesive, well thought-out, and an easily understood well written argument. I couldn't be happier, this is why I come here. This is why I think you're awesome @Smokin Joe . This is why people come to the briefingroom.
There has been anecdotal evidence that the three drugs combined produce results. I don't know why other tests are/or are not being conducted. My post was to explain why I understand scientists testing one or two drugs at a time to measure efficacy and side-effects. You, Dr Zelenko, and President Trump could be right about your hunches. Hopefully more trials will be documented. I think they will.
It is unfortunate that there is some evidence that the 3 drugs work best before lethal symptoms set in...this will make trials more difficult if the medicinal cocktail is ineffective for patients who do not show signs of the virus.
Prefacing this with the requisite "I am not a Doctor", I'm just a scientist.
It is understandablethe the drugs which prevent or stop viral replication would work best at early onset. A quick smackdown, eliminate the virii while they are few, and the patient loses fewer vital type 1 pneumocytes (the lung cells that conduct Oxygen and CO2 exchange with the blood). (Type 2 pneumocytes produce surfactants that basically lubricate the lungs and keep them elastic).
The Hydroxychloroquine/Azithromycin/Zinc Sulfate regimen is likely not the only way to accomplish stopping the virus and killing it off. There has been research into antivirals and some of those may help, or even show similar (or possibly better) efficacy. But the Hydroxychloroquine/Azithromycin/Zinc Sulfate does have going for it is this: The drugs are known, side effects have been documented, they are an "off the shelf" solution to the problem and the course Dr Zelenko used is under $100.00 Affordable for most anyone, cheap enough to give away to those who can't.
Which means it can be deployed in use against SARS-CoV-2 quickly where desperately needed (if governors and others trying to count political coup on the POTUS will get with the program and think of the lives they are more likely to save, even if the ICUs sit with 'regular' patients and ventilators sit in storage.
Something has been raised, though which is of concern.
There has been a report of possible evidence of diffuse (cytokine related?) thrombosis in otherwise asymptomatic or apparently recovered persons. Idiopathic (we don't know what caused it) diffuse clotting, especially contributing to or causing death of vital organs and the patient, is a scary thing, and I think the sooner that mechanism is understood in relation to SARS-CoV-2, the better, and if that is something else, and not SARS-CoV-2 we should know that, too.
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The Medicos need to draw a line. There's treatment before needing a ventilator, and a new regime must apply when it's too late to prevent the lungs from filling up.
I think the tipping point is where the viral invasion stops being the most damaging aspect, and the body's immune system takes over that role. Sure, the virus still needs to be stopped, but the overactive immune response ("cytokine storm") may be responsible for even more damage at that point and needs to be addressed too.
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I think the tipping point is where the viral invasion stops being the most damaging aspect, and the body's immune system takes over that role. Sure, the virus still needs to be stopped, but the overactive immune response ("cytokine storm") may be responsible for even more damage at that point and needs to be addressed too.
The "Storm" is the kill shot that causes the patient to expire, drowning in their own mucous. The virus just tees up the ball.
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The "Storm" is the kill shot that causes the patient to expire, drowning in their own mucous. The virus just tees up the ball.
Basically true.
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Basically true.
Well, unless a Heart Attack or opportunistic bacterium gets them first. :shrug:
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Well, unless a Heart Attack or opportunistic bacterium gets them first. :shrug:
Well, there is always sepsis or massive organ failure. :shrug:
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Well, there is always sepsis or massive organ failure. :shrug:
Just about any preexisting condition known to medical science can contribute to a COVID death. One could be forgiven for thinking that's evidence it was created by somebody, rather than started spontaneously in nature.
:pondering:
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Just about any preexisting condition known to medical science can contribute to a COVID death. One could be forgiven for thinking that's evidence it was created by somebody, rather than started spontaneously in nature.
:pondering:
With the research that had been conducted, was being conducted, destroyed samples and records, location, location, location, and US funding pulled from their BSL-4 lab, It would be hard to forgive any thought but that this was lab created.
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With the research that had been conducted, was being conducted, destroyed samples and records, location, location, location, and US funding pulled from their BSL-4 lab, It would be hard to forgive any thought but that this was lab created.
It's a perfect pathogen for bio warfare. The very lengthy incubation causes it to spread far and wide, one person can unwittingly infect hundreds, maybe thousands of other people by simply breathing and expelling saliva with every syllable spoken. It survives hours or even days on non-porous surfaces. We've been blessed in the past with pathogens that kill off the patients quickly or can't survive outside a host, like Ebola.