The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: L9teen on January 25, 2017, 08:59:26 pm
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http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316115-trump-hangs-portrait-of-andrew-jackson-in-oval-office#.WIkIBF9VDfc.facebook
President Trump hung a portrait of Andrew Jackson (http://thehill.com/person/andrew-jackson) in the Oval Office on Tuesday, The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/president-trump-white-house.html?_r=0) reports, an apparent nod to the populist sentiments of the new administration.
Trump's rise has often been compared to the populist election of Jackson, including by some of the new president's own team.
Chief White House strategist Steve Bannon called (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/2017/live-updates/politics/live-coverage-of-trumps-inauguration/bannon-calls-trumps-speech-jacksonian/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.194663858615) Trump’s inauguration speech on Friday “Jacksonian,” saying it struck the populist and patriotic tones Jackson was known for.
Trump has also expressed admiration for the seventh president, as well, calling (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/us/politics/donald-trump-andrew-jackson.html) Jackson “an amazing figure in American history — very unique so many ways,” through a spokesperson last week.
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Great. I knew Jackson was a bad president, and so I Googled to find some specific info, remembering that Glenn Beck had talked about him before, and I came upon this transcript of when Glenn was working with Larry Schweikart (LS from TOS) and interestingly, LS had this to say about Andrew Jackson:
Andrew Jackson is the first era of big government, how Andrew Jackson destroyed America, to use hyperbole, but he really is the first real progressive, big government executive that we have. And, you know, I taught on this in the class, but I went back and looked at some notes that a student of mine had done for me many years ago on the actual numbers of per capita expenditures, nominal and real expenditures by the U.S. Government, and government employees in the early 1800s. And it’s quite amazing. All three categories jump and jump sharply under Jackson. For the first time you start to see a large number of government employees, certainly per capita the number of government employees goes up. So it’s strange that Jackson is always portrayed as kind of a small government guy but in almost every way, he is the founder of big government.
Source: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/48248/?utm_source=glennbeck&utm_medium=contentcopy_link (http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/48248/)
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Maybe Trump can explain the significance of ol Hickory to the British Prime Minister when they meet.
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Without Jackson we wouldn't have a $20.00 bill. 20 bones, a dub.
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Maybe Trump can explain the significance of ol Hickory to the British Prime Minister when they meet.
In 1814 we took a little trip
Along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississippi
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans
And we caught the bloody British in the town of New Orleans
We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin'
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico
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In 1814 we took a little trip
Along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississippi
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans
And we caught the bloody British in the town of New Orleans
We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin'
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico
Thanks for the earworm Johnny Horton
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It is a very odd choice, considering he is purported to be the father of the Democratic Party. Refreshing my memory reading his Bio on Wikipedia, I see many, many similarities between the two. Jackson never liked brown people either. jk
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It is a very odd choice, considering he is purported to be the father of the Democratic Party. Refreshing my memory reading his Bio on Wikipedia, I see many, many similarities between the two. Jackson never liked brown people either. jk
I guess that must mean that Reagan didn't like "brown" people either since it appears he also had Jacksons portrait in his office. :shrug:
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@beandog it was a very insensitive post, that's why I ended it with 'jk' - just kidding.
What Jackson did to the Indians cannot be overlooked, though. He is way down on my list of 'good' Presidents, having Seminole blood coursing through my veins, incidentally the only Tribe that NEVER signed a Peace Treaty with the Feds, which explains their Real Estate.
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Good choice.
Jackson was also an extraconstitutional democrat lowlife.
Reagan Hung the Coolidge portrait next to Jefferson because he felt that Coolidge belonged among the founders.
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@beandog it was a very insensitive post, that's why I ended it with 'jk' - just kidding.
What Jackson did to the Indians cannot be overlooked, though. He is way down on my list of 'good' Presidents, having Seminole blood coursing through my veins, incidentally the only Tribe that NEVER signed a Peace Treaty with the Feds, which explains their Real Estate.
It was a long time ago in a totally different time. Undoubtedly he thought he was doing what was right just as we feel we are doing what is right. I would rather he had hung Reagan's portrait but there'd be people screaming about that too.
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A little tidbit on Jackson:
..."The 1830s were a tumultuous decade for America. The attempt by the Second Bank of the United States for an early recharter was passed by Congress in July 1832, but the bill was vetoed shortly thereafter by President Andrew Jackson. The hopes of the bank's supporters to turn the veto in a winning campaign issue in that fall's presidential campaign failed dismally. In 1833, Jackson retaliated against the bank by removing federal government deposits and placing them in "pet" state banks. As federal revenue from land sales soared, Jackson saw the opportunity to fulfill his dream of paying off the national debt - which he did in early 1835. But as the economy overheated and so did state dreams of infrastructure projects. Congress passed a law in 1836 that required the federal surplus to be distributed to the states in four payments. Shortly thereafter, the Jackson Administration declared in its "Specie Circular" that payments for federal land purchases be made in specie. When combined with loose state banking practices and a credit contraction, a major economic crisis was brewing when Martin Van Buren took office as president in March 1837. Two months later, New York City banks suspended specie payments. A major economic recession was soon underway. Van Buren - under pressure from his mentor Jackson - decided not to suspend the Specie Circular. Instead, he proposed a set of economic proposals that September - the most of important of which - an independent Sub-Treasury - Congress refused to pass. As a result, the recession double dipped in 1839 and the national economy did not recover until 1843...."
...Jackson came into presidency in 1829 determined to eliminate the national debt, the management of which was one of the purposes of the national bank. "Jackson had two purposes in ridding the country of debt," wrote John Steele Gordon. "The first, of course, was that he thought debt was bad in and of itself. He called it a `national curse' in his first run for the presidency in 1824. But he thought that the institutions and the people who benefited from it were a national curse as well. `My vow,' he pledged, `shall be to pay the national debt, to prevent a monied aristocracy from growing up around our administration that must bend to its views, and ultimately destroy the liberty of our country."
http://lehrmaninstitute.org/history/Andrew-Jackson-1837.html
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Jackson was probably one of our worst Presidents ever. I guess Donny couldn't find a picture of LBJ to put up too.
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A little tidbit on Jackson:
..."The 1830s were a tumultuous decade for America. The attempt by the Second Bank of the United States for an early recharter was passed by Congress in July 1832, but the bill was vetoed shortly thereafter by President Andrew Jackson. The hopes of the bank's supporters to turn the veto in a winning campaign issue in that fall's presidential campaign failed dismally. In 1833, Jackson retaliated against the bank by removing federal government deposits and placing them in "pet" state banks. As federal revenue from land sales soared, Jackson saw the opportunity to fulfill his dream of paying off the national debt - which he did in early 1835. But as the economy overheated and so did state dreams of infrastructure projects. Congress passed a law in 1836 that required the federal surplus to be distributed to the states in four payments. Shortly thereafter, the Jackson Administration declared in its "Specie Circular" that payments for federal land purchases be made in specie. When combined with loose state banking practices and a credit contraction, a major economic crisis was brewing when Martin Van Buren took office as president in March 1837. Two months later, New York City banks suspended specie payments. A major economic recession was soon underway. Van Buren - under pressure from his mentor Jackson - decided not to suspend the Specie Circular. Instead, he proposed a set of economic proposals that September - the most of important of which - an independent Sub-Treasury - Congress refused to pass. As a result, the recession double dipped in 1839 and the national economy did not recover until 1843...."
...Jackson came into presidency in 1829 determined to eliminate the national debt, the management of which was one of the purposes of the national bank. "Jackson had two purposes in ridding the country of debt," wrote John Steele Gordon. "The first, of course, was that he thought debt was bad in and of itself. He called it a `national curse' in his first run for the presidency in 1824. But he thought that the institutions and the people who benefited from it were a national curse as well. `My vow,' he pledged, `shall be to pay the national debt, to prevent a monied aristocracy from growing up around our administration that must bend to its views, and ultimately destroy the liberty of our country."
http://lehrmaninstitute.org/history/Andrew-Jackson-1837.html
Sounds good to me. :patriot:
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Jackson was probably one of our worst Presidents ever. I guess Donny couldn't find a picture of LBJ to put up too.
Maybe he thought he was doing it out of respect for Pres. Reagan who also hung a portrait of Andrew Jackson. :shrug:
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@beandog it was a very insensitive post, that's why I ended it with 'jk' - just kidding.
What Jackson did to the Indians cannot be overlooked, though. He is way down on my list of 'good' Presidents, having Seminole blood coursing through my veins, incidentally the only Tribe that NEVER signed a Peace Treaty with the Feds, which explains their Real Estate.
Hmmn.... http://digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/Vol2/treaties/sem0910.htm
What Jackson "did" to the Indians was no worse than what the Indians did to Americans. Dragging Canoe..... Jamestown massacre.... the list is long and bloody.
In fact, the Indian Removal was probably harder on the Black slaves who carried the luggage of the Cherokee on the "Trail of Tears" than the Cherokee themselves.
Not to pick a fight, but the Seminole Tribe did not even exist before the 1700 correct?
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@beandog it was a very insensitive post, that's why I ended it with 'jk' - just kidding.
What Jackson did to the Indians cannot be overlooked, though. He is way down on my list of 'good' Presidents, having Seminole blood coursing through my veins, incidentally the only Tribe that NEVER signed a Peace Treaty with the Feds, which explains their Real Estate.
Well, back in the day, Oklahoma wouldn't have looked any better.
And, I agree, Jackson is not someone I would want hanging on my walls. Figuratively or literally.
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Not a POTUS I would want hanging on my wall, but I digress.
Jackson was the most significant President since Washington. He exemplified getting outside the good-ole-boy gentries of the political establishment that the 6 previous Presidents embodied.
Jackson is highly symbolic of what Donald is and it is exactly what he is about.
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A little tidbit on Jackson:
..."The 1830s were a tumultuous decade for America. The attempt by the Second Bank of the United States for an early recharter was passed by Congress in July 1832, but the bill was vetoed shortly thereafter by President Andrew Jackson. The hopes of the bank's supporters to turn the veto in a winning campaign issue in that fall's presidential campaign failed dismally. In 1833, Jackson retaliated against the bank by removing federal government deposits and placing them in "pet" state banks. As federal revenue from land sales soared, Jackson saw the opportunity to fulfill his dream of paying off the national debt - which he did in early 1835. But as the economy overheated and so did state dreams of infrastructure projects. Congress passed a law in 1836 that required the federal surplus to be distributed to the states in four payments. Shortly thereafter, the Jackson Administration declared in its "Specie Circular" that payments for federal land purchases be made in specie. When combined with loose state banking practices and a credit contraction, a major economic crisis was brewing when Martin Van Buren took office as president in March 1837. Two months later, New York City banks suspended specie payments. A major economic recession was soon underway. Van Buren - under pressure from his mentor Jackson - decided not to suspend the Specie Circular. Instead, he proposed a set of economic proposals that September - the most of important of which - an independent Sub-Treasury - Congress refused to pass. As a result, the recession double dipped in 1839 and the national economy did not recover until 1843...."
...Jackson came into presidency in 1829 determined to eliminate the national debt, the management of which was one of the purposes of the national bank. "Jackson had two purposes in ridding the country of debt," wrote John Steele Gordon. "The first, of course, was that he thought debt was bad in and of itself. He called it a `national curse' in his first run for the presidency in 1824. But he thought that the institutions and the people who benefited from it were a national curse as well. `My vow,' he pledged, `shall be to pay the national debt, to prevent a monied aristocracy from growing up around our administration that must bend to its views, and ultimately destroy the liberty of our country."
http://lehrmaninstitute.org/history/Andrew-Jackson-1837.html (http://lehrmaninstitute.org/history/Andrew-Jackson-1837.html)
Is that revisionist history, or what? Seems for someone who grew government and liberal/progressive policies, "ending the debt" was contradictive to that.
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Well, back in the day, Oklahoma wouldn't have looked any better.
And, I agree, Jackson is not someone I would want hanging on my walls. Figuratively or literally.
One belief is that Lincoln came up with the term "Michigander" in an insult to democrats in Michigan clinging to Jackson like ticks on a gooses butt.
Funny thing is that the first republican party convention was in Jackson Michigan.
Jackson made a really crappy deal with Ohio for the Toledo strip. He promised the perceived as valuable Toledo strip to Ohio if they would deliver the vote for the democrats and Michigan would get the "useless" upper peninsula. Ohio delivered but the democrats still lost the presidency and the upper peninsula turned out to be far more valuable.
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Hmmn.... http://digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/Vol2/treaties/sem0910.htm
What Jackson "did" to the Indians was no worse than what the Indians did to Americans. Dragging Canoe..... Jamestown massacre.... the list is long and bloody.
I can't atone for Indian atrocities, but, as far as they were concerned they were being invaded and their land taken, they were certainly more savage than Christian.
In fact, the Indian Removal was probably harder on the Black slaves who carried the luggage of the Cherokee on the "Trail of Tears" than the Cherokee themselves.
I am certainly not advocating that President Jackson liked Black people either.
Not to pick a fight, but the Seminole Tribe did not even exist before the 1700 correct?
You are correct, they were Creek when Columbus arrived and were mainly in Georgia and Alabama but some wound up in present day Florida as (Southern) tribes always grow and expand territory.
the way I heard it, and my recollection could be fuzzy, 2/3 of the Seminole Tribe wound up in Oklahoma by way of the Trail of Tears, and they are the ones that negotiated that treaty because the TRUCE they had with the US Government was abrogated when they sided with the Confederacy.
The FLORIDA Seminoles have never signed a Peace Treaty with the US Govt.
I read allot at that Link you provided, very interesting, Thank You-it says that Treaty was never Ratified.
A copy of this agreement, which has never been ratified, is found in an Appendix to the Report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for 1865, with the report of the negotiating commissioners, which copy has been reproduced in the appendix to this compilation, post, p. 1050.
edited to ping @Fantom
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Jackson was the most significant President since Washington. He exemplified getting outside the good-ole-boy gentries of the political establishment that the 6 previous Presidents embodied.
Jackson is highly symbolic of what Donald is and it is exactly what he is about.
Jackson turned over cabinet officials like a Maytag, A 'petticoat' scandal that even FOX would report on today, He was certainly the first jackass of the Democratic Party.
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I can't atone for Indian atrocities, but, as far as they were concerned they were being invaded and their land taken, they were certainly more savage than Christian.
I am certainly not advocating that President Jackson liked Black people either.
You are correct, they were Creek when Columbus arrived and were mainly in Georgia and Alabama but some wound up in present day Florida as (Southern) tribes always grow and expand territory.
the way I heard it, and my recollection could be fuzzy, 2/3 of the Seminole Tribe wound up in Oklahoma by way of the Trail of Tears, and they are the ones that negotiated that treaty because the TRUCE they had with the US Government was abrogated when they sided with the Confederacy.
The FLORIDA Seminoles have never signed a Peace Treaty with the US Govt.
I read allot at that Link you provided, very interesting, Thank You-it says that Treaty was never Ratified.
A copy of this agreement, which has never been ratified, is found in an Appendix to the Report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for 1865, with the report of the negotiating commissioners, which copy has been reproduced in the appendix to this compilation, post, p. 1050.
edited to ping @Fantom
Trail of Tears was Cherokee: The Cherokee removal in 1838 (the last forced removal east of the Mississippi) was brought on by the discovery of gold near Dahlonega, Georgia in 1828, resulting in the Georgia Gold Rush.[6] Approximately 2,000-6,000 of the 16,543 relocated Cherokee perished along the way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears
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Maybe Trump can explain the significance of ol Hickory to the British Prime Minister when they meet.
I don't think that will be necessary! She will know.
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Jackson turned over cabinet officials like a Maytag, A 'petticoat' scandal that even FOX would report on today, He was certainly the first jackass of the Democratic Party.
Seems some only look at the dark side of people.
How about some good quotes from a man who changed the Presidency forever?
Take time to deliberate; but when the time for action arrives, stop thinking and go in.
One man with courage makes a majority.
It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their own selfish purposes.
Andrew practiced what he preached.
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@Sanguine
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Trails_of_Tears_en.png)
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Seems some only look at the dark side of people.
How about some good quotes from a man who changed the Presidency forever?
Take time to deliberate; but when the time for action arrives, stop thinking and go in.
One man with courage makes a majority.
It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their own selfish purposes.
Andrew practiced what he preached.
@IsailedawayfromFR I have admitted I'm bias, ol' Hickory I can do without.
I tried to find why Reagan put his portrait up, with no success, I'm certainly not denying he did this, guess I would have to read his Biography again to catch that.
I don't hate Trump (anymore), just pointing out Historical facts about Jackson.
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I can't atone for Indian atrocities, but, as far as they were concerned they were being invaded and their land taken, they were certainly more savage than Christian.
I am certainly not advocating that President Jackson liked Black people either.
You are correct, they were Creek when Columbus arrived and were mainly in Georgia and Alabama but some wound up in present day Florida as (Southern) tribes always grow and expand territory.
the way I heard it, and my recollection could be fuzzy, 2/3 of the Seminole Tribe wound up in Oklahoma by way of the Trail of Tears, and they are the ones that negotiated that treaty because the TRUCE they had with the US Government was abrogated when they sided with the Confederacy.
The FLORIDA Seminoles have never signed a Peace Treaty with the US Govt.
I read allot at that Link you provided, very interesting, Thank You-it says that Treaty was never Ratified.
A copy of this agreement, which has never been ratified, is found in an Appendix to the Report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for 1865, with the report of the negotiating commissioners, which copy has been reproduced in the appendix to this compilation, post, p. 1050.
edited to ping @Fantom
Let me say, I do appreciate your honest and decent reply. I appreciate such, as I do not hold any "noble" views of either side in historical perspective, rather a "Nature of Man" viewpoint.
As to truth ..or such understanding as may be. Last first as is my wont.
Ratification which you posted from the site.. I have no clue why it is posted as such, as the very header of the treaty states....TREATY WITH THE SEMINOLE, 1866.
Mar. 21, 1866. | 14 Stats., 755. | Ratified, July 19, 1866. | Proclamed, Aug. 16, 1866. Note too that the posted info you made from that site says "1865".
As for Jackson, I doubt he hated Indians or Blacks.. anymore than likewise. Just saw a solution to a problem for both. Independent lands... he did not know that the USA would encompass the whole land soon enough.
Not just "southern tribes".. all tribes... including Whites.
Anywho, the Seminole were not an "aboriginal" Tribe, they were comprised of renegade outcasts of the Creek, Black runaway slaves and White outlaws. As such they hardy comprise a legitimate ..original Tribal/Nation.
Which sets a precedence that any group of People in the U.S. can establish itself as a "Tribe", with self governance.
As for the real ..such as it was "Trail of Tears". It was some of the Cherokee who where forcibly removed, in the dead of winter, when they violated the Treaty of Echota.
@corbe
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Thank You for the Education @Fantom - I stand corrected and in debt to your knowledge and your willingness to share it.
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Thank You for the Education @Fantom - I stand corrected and in debt to your knowledge and your willingness to share it.
Opinion and knowledge are two different things. Certainly willing to entertain either Corbe. Anyways, I hope we can always engage in an open discourse.
Peace.
@corbe
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Two of my grandfathers were murdered by Indians, both sneak attacks.
George Ricker, 1706 New Hampshire (with brother Maturin Ricker)
http://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/The_brothers_who_emigrated_to_the_USA_and_were_killed_by_Indians
Athe Meeks, 1812 Indiana
https://www.geni.com/people/Athe-Meeks/6000000013811571021
I have no animosity towards Indians, nor do I place them on pedestals
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Opinion and knowledge are two different things. Certainly willing to entertain either Corbe. Anyways, I hope we can always engage in an open discourse.
Peace.
@corbe
@Fantom
I easily discerned between your Opinion and your Knowledge of the topic of discussion, I certainly remember the origins of the original Seminole Tribe and it was as you described.
:beer: anytime
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@Fantom
I easily discerned between your Opinion and your Knowledge of the topic of discussion, I certainly remember the origins of the original Seminole Tribe and it was as you described.
:beer: anytime
@corbe
Kool (yes, I know that dates me) :beer:
Anyways, we can both "hate" on the Cherokee.... they are the Dastards who "spoke with forked tounge" ;) and Treated away lands in dispute with the Creek they held no right to.
Danial Boone had no end of problems with that!
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My bad @corbe it was not Creek/Cherokee lands in dispute that the Cherokee were falsely treating with.
http://www.tolatsga.org/Cherokee2.html
Such is my decade old memory on this.
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It is a very odd choice, considering he is purported to be the father of the Democratic Party. Refreshing my memory reading his Bio on Wikipedia, I see many, many similarities between the two. Jackson never liked brown people either. jk
And let's not forget the trail of tears...one of America's darkest most shameful stories.
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I still think there are more pressing issues than what portrait President Trump hangs in the oval office for goodness sake; heck Michelle's tribal artwork didn't get nearly the attention. :whistle:
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@IsailedawayfromFR I have admitted I'm bias, ol' Hickory I can do without.
I tried to find why Reagan put his portrait up, with no success, I'm certainly not denying he did this, guess I would have to read his Biography again to catch that.
I don't hate Trump (anymore), just pointing out Historical facts about Jackson.
That's fine, we all have our heroes.
I like Jackson as he got us out of the cartel of the original 13 colonies being the only way to pick a President and exemplified the American spirit of ruggedness which was imperative as we became a greatly expanding nation.
He was also a military guy and we need to keep these guys close as they protect our freedoms. Those in the military know this very well/.
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My bad @corbe it was not Creek/Cherokee lands in dispute that the Cherokee were falsely treating with.
http://www.tolatsga.org/Cherokee2.html
Such is my decade old memory on this.
@Fantom There is only one thing better than waking up to these cantankerous, argumentative friends I have made here and that is reading the History you have discovered and deemed important enough to share. Again, I do appreciate it and learn so much that I too, had already forgotten.
I hope you are a College Professor somewhere enlightening your students to this vast repository of Knowledge.