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General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => Topic started by: mystery-ak on December 16, 2013, 03:26:53 pm

Title: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: mystery-ak on December 16, 2013, 03:26:53 pm
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100250598/lots-of-atheists-more-muslims-fewer-christians-and-jews-this-is-the-new-america/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100250598/lots-of-atheists-more-muslims-fewer-christians-and-jews-this-is-the-new-america/)


Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America

By Damian Thompson Religion Last updated: December 16th, 2013

(http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2013/12/Screen-Shot-2013-12-15-at-15.59.04.png)

Drifting towards atheism: the Washington Post's overview map

The Washington Post has produced six massively detailed maps showing the religious make-up of America. The main map is above – if you want to enlarge it you'll have to click through to the Post's report here. The author/analyst, Niraj Chokshi, has uncovered some fascinating material – most of it lurking in the 2010 US Religion Census (data submitted by congregations, not the official US Census) but so much more surprising set out in map form. And here's an example.

Did you know there are – possibly – now more religious Muslims than religious Jews in Florida? I know, it seems incredible. Miami Beach has had 15 Jewish mayors, there are getting on for 200 synagogues in South Florida – and, of course, it was the hunting ground of the despicable Bernie Madoff. But here's a section from the map of Eastern states, grouped by region:

continued....
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: GourmetDan on December 16, 2013, 03:42:06 pm
Poor atheists think they are being 'rational' when they have simply accepted a different 'a priori' belief.

They are no more 'rational' than the believers that they despise, and are arguably less so...


Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: SouthTexas on December 16, 2013, 10:21:05 pm
What color denotes atheists and Muslim?

Surprised they didn't get more of the gray, none of your business, responses.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Oceander on December 17, 2013, 03:58:15 am
The WaPo article isn't nearly as sensationalized as this article implies.  At any rate, here's the "non-christian" map:

(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/files/2013/12/LargestNonChristian.png)


and here's the breakdown of US counties by dominant christian denomination:

(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/files/2013/12/2010-Largest-Group-by-County.jpg) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/files/2013/12/2010-Largest-Group-by-County.jpg)

Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Oceander on December 17, 2013, 03:59:09 am
What color denotes atheists and Muslim?

Surprised they didn't get more of the gray, none of your business, responses.

The map in the original post only reflects christian denominations.  There doesn't appear to be a map that compares all denominations, christian and non-christian.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Oceander on December 17, 2013, 03:59:45 am
Poor atheists thing they are being 'rational' when they have simply accepted a different 'a priori' belief.

They are no more 'rational' than the believers that they despise, and are arguably less so...




Very true.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: olde north church on December 18, 2013, 11:46:19 am
Do you believe in "God" or do you "Believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Save-yore?".  To some, anything beside the latter is "atheist". 
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: mountaineer on December 18, 2013, 02:55:16 pm
It's okay to say "saviour."
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Rapunzel on December 18, 2013, 06:07:24 pm
Do you believe in "God" or do you "Believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Save-yore?".  To some, anything beside the latter is "atheist".


I am most curious why you have such a negative opinion of religion.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: NavyCanDo on December 18, 2013, 07:32:31 pm
Funny how protestant  non-denomination churches are ignored.   Here in the NW, if you drive by a Church that sits more than 700 people at each service, you are probably driving by one of these mega non-denomination churches.  Lots of other denominations splintered off decades ago from Lutheran, Presbyterian and Baptist are also not recognized on the chart.     
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: olde north church on December 18, 2013, 08:02:48 pm

I am most curious why you have such a negative opinion of religion.

I don't.  Just seem to think it's a bit odd that one religion would attempt to lay claim as the "true" religion or the "true God". 
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: truth_seeker on December 18, 2013, 08:51:42 pm
I don't.  Just seem to think it's a bit odd that one religion would attempt to lay claim as the "true" religion or the "true God".
Odd? Charges that others' faiths are hellishly wrong seems to be a central aspect of most religions.


Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Rapunzel on December 18, 2013, 09:05:54 pm
I don't.  Just seem to think it's a bit odd that one religion would attempt to lay claim as the "true" religion or the "true God".

I believe God exists, I don't think he cares where or how we choose to worship. 

Just out of curiosity are you Jewish?  I only ask because I realize they don't recognize Jesus because they don't believe he fulfilled Messianic Prophecies or embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah as prophet and the Messiah has not come yet.  I remember when I was just a child having a neighbor who was Jewish and having a lot of conversations with him about this as we were out riding horses in the desert - strange conversations for kids to have, but I remember them to this day.  His Judaism was so foreign to me that I was fascinated hearing his explanations of his religion.
 
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: olde north church on December 18, 2013, 10:57:26 pm
I believe God exists, I don't think he cares where or how we choose to worship. 

Just out of curiosity are you Jewish?  I only ask because I realize they don't recognize Jesus because they don't believe he fulfilled Messianic Prophecies or embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah as prophet and the Messiah has not come yet.  I remember when I was just a child having a neighbor who was Jewish and having a lot of conversations with him about this as we were out riding horses in the desert - strange conversations for kids to have, but I remember them to this day.  His Judaism was so foreign to me that I was fascinated hearing his explanations of his religion.

Actually, I'm not Jewish, although I have always found the Old Testament to be more comforting that the New.  Don't care too much for the dietary restrictions.  There's another aspect I have in common but not good to discuss in mixed company but was more in my parent's hands, if you pardon the expression, than mine.
I would be Zoroastrian, but they frown on conversion.  They believe, the religion you are born is the "correct one" as God (Ahura Mazda) doesn't make mistakes. 
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: olde north church on December 19, 2013, 12:33:39 pm
I believe God exists, I don't think he cares where or how we choose to worship. 

Just out of curiosity are you Jewish?  I only ask because I realize they don't recognize Jesus because they don't believe he fulfilled Messianic Prophecies or embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah as prophet and the Messiah has not come yet.  I remember when I was just a child having a neighbor who was Jewish and having a lot of conversations with him about this as we were out riding horses in the desert - strange conversations for kids to have, but I remember them to this day.  His Judaism was so foreign to me that I was fascinated hearing his explanations of his religion.

I gave this a more thought (I'm wont to pick at loose strings!).  It's not Christ I have the problems with as much as those who claim to be "Christian".  Those, who in their zeal to be the perfect Christian, miss the mark entirely.
For example, as I have mentioned previously, Christ wasn't mocking the Pharisees simply because they were an easy target.  It was a warning as to what not to become and it's fallen upon deaf ears.  A crystal cathedral?  A televangical empire?  For whom?  It sure isn't for His glory.
On this forum, how many denied the TRUE meaning of His teachings and conveniently forgotten who He did choose for examples.  Many would deny His outreach to Zacchaeus, the tax collector?  The adulteress, at her stoning?  The Centurion with the sick servant (which, by the way is one of my favorite parables.).  Dismas, upon His own crucifixion, addressed the thief.
But no, we have "Limbaugh the Clever", weighing in with His own sense of infallibility.  To deny the tenet of Christian charity and it's social requirement is to turn one's back on a cornerstone of God's law.  One doesn't give charity as an indulgence, to cleanse one's conscience, an act comparable to Martin Sheen sleeping on a sewer grate for one night but to deprive oneself of luxury or comfort for the long term.  That is the point of a wealthy man not being able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: olde north church on December 19, 2013, 02:51:11 pm
I believe God exists, I don't think he cares where or how we choose to worship. 

Just out of curiosity are you Jewish?  I only ask because I realize they don't recognize Jesus because they don't believe he fulfilled Messianic Prophecies or embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah as prophet and the Messiah has not come yet.  I remember when I was just a child having a neighbor who was Jewish and having a lot of conversations with him about this as we were out riding horses in the desert - strange conversations for kids to have, but I remember them to this day.  His Judaism was so foreign to me that I was fascinated hearing his explanations of his religion.

Additionally (apologies, this is just the way my mind works these days), if one believes Christ died for our sins, what do we forsake when we are asked to surrender our material possessions?  This is why it's incomprehensible to the human mind to follow in His footsteps.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Oceander on December 19, 2013, 02:56:07 pm
Should one continue to give one's material possessions to the "poor" if the "poor" are those who simply choose not to work to support themselves and instead prefer to live off of the charity of others?
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: DCPatriot on December 19, 2013, 03:00:57 pm
Should one continue to give one's material possessions to the "poor" if the "poor" are those who simply choose not to work to support themselves and instead prefer to live off of the charity of others?

There needs to be an honest national dialogue on the difference between "a leg up" and "a hammock".
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Oceander on December 19, 2013, 03:05:54 pm
There needs to be an honest national dialogue on the difference between "a leg up" and "a hammock".

I quite agree.  However, for the present purposes I'm interested in knowing what the Christian perspective on the question is.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: GourmetDan on December 19, 2013, 03:06:07 pm
There needs to be an honest national dialogue on the difference between "a leg up" and "a hammock".

That's why charity was historically a local, private effort.  Those who are closest to the 'problem' are best equipped to assess it.

Moving it to a national obligation is the problem, and it isn't 'solvable' at that level...


Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: olde north church on December 19, 2013, 03:23:07 pm
Should one continue to give one's material possessions to the "poor" if the "poor" are those who simply choose not to work to support themselves and instead prefer to live off of the charity of others?

Are you giving to charity for the sake of charity, what difference does it make?  If you're going to give to charity, shouldn't it be unconditional.  If someone is taking advantage of the charity of others, that is between God and the person taking advantage  It shouldn't be to keep score, let not the right hand know.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: DCPatriot on December 19, 2013, 03:30:04 pm
Are you giving to charity for the sake of charity, what difference does it make?  If you're going to give to charity, shouldn't it be unconditional.  If someone is taking advantage of the charity of others, that is between God and the person taking advantage  It shouldn't be to keep score, let not the right hand know.


You may be right, but.....I keep thinking of the TRULY needy family that was next in line and will go hungry or homeless or not get the proper medications.

Why should I accept any of that guilt?

I give $$$ directly to the person in need. 

I play a game in my head that it's Jesus in disguise....just to test me.   LOL!   
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: GourmetDan on December 19, 2013, 03:31:07 pm
Are you giving to charity for the sake of charity, what difference does it make?  If you're going to give to charity, shouldn't it be unconditional.  If someone is taking advantage of the charity of others, that is between God and the person taking advantage  It shouldn't be to keep score, let not the right hand know.

Not really.

We are to be wise stewards of our resources, not blind automatons helping to lock others into destructive lifestyles...


Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: olde north church on December 19, 2013, 03:41:39 pm
Not really.

We are to be wise stewards of our resources, not blind automatons helping to lock others into destructive lifestyles...

Are we to wait until all are dead and then pick which we could have saved?
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Rapunzel on December 19, 2013, 03:49:37 pm
That's why charity was historically a local, private effort.  Those who are closest to the 'problem' are best equipped to assess it.

Moving it to a national obligation is the problem, and it isn't 'solvable' at that level...


Moving anything other than national defense to the national level is the problem.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Rapunzel on December 19, 2013, 03:52:58 pm
Are you giving to charity for the sake of charity, what difference does it make?  If you're going to give to charity, shouldn't it be unconditional.  If someone is taking advantage of the charity of others, that is between God and the person taking advantage  It shouldn't be to keep score, let not the right hand know.


No.  There's people who truly need it and they do deserve our "charity" and then there's grifters who pretty much deserve to be shunned. 
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: olde north church on December 19, 2013, 04:30:29 pm

No.  There's people who truly need it and they do deserve our "charity" and then there's grifters who pretty much deserve to be shunned.

It's like any other situation, it's like "he will get his!", referring to God's punishment for murder, rape, etc., but taking advantage of charitable giving, it's like pitchfork and torch time.  I'm not saying to walk as if a babe in the woods.  I have asked here about the various charities for veterans for which pays the highest percentage and the like.  Once your dollar leaves your hand, it's out of your control, after you've done your due diligence.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: Rapunzel on December 19, 2013, 04:38:33 pm
It's like any other situation, it's like "he will get his!", referring to God's punishment for murder, rape, etc., but taking advantage of charitable giving, it's like pitchfork and torch time.  I'm not saying to walk as if a babe in the woods.  I have asked here about the various charities for veterans for which pays the highest percentage and the like.  Once your dollar leaves your hand, it's out of your control, after you've done your due diligence.

A group of us personally did something for Wounded Warriors last summer and the summer before.  I give to the Salvation Army because the head of the Army lives very frugally and more of our donations go to the people who need it. I never give to the Red Cross too little actually makes it into the hands of those in need. 
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: sinkspur on December 19, 2013, 04:52:41 pm
Should one continue to give one's material possessions to the "poor" if the "poor" are those who simply choose not to work to support themselves and instead prefer to live off of the charity of others?

Charity and Christian love is not given based on the worthiness of the recipient.  Willingness to share one's goods is about ME and my disposition, not the person receiving the goods.

That is entirely different from distributing taxpayer funds.  In that case, genuine need would seem to be the prime determinant.
Title: Re: Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America
Post by: EC on December 19, 2013, 05:58:03 pm
A group of us personally did something for Wounded Warriors last summer and the summer before.  I give to the Salvation Army because the head of the Army lives very frugally and more of our donations go to the people who need it. I never give to the Red Cross too little actually makes it into the hands of those in need.

Just want to point out - you shelled out something far more precious than mere money. You gave your time. A body can always earn more cash. Your time is limited and fixed.